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  • TRANSCRIPTS DR Earley Sept 3rd 2013, Katherine Jackson V AEG Live

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    TeamMichael
    500 Ansichten54 Seiten
    Jackson vs AEG Live. Today’s witness is Dr. Paul Earley, an addiction medicine specialist, and addiction Medical Physician from Georg Some of Earley’s deposition was played early in the case by the plaintiffs, but he’s here today testifying as a defense expert. Testimony got started late today because there were lengthy discussions about the next steps in the case and Earley’s testimony. The witness was delayed for about an hour while attorneys for both sides aregued if he should be allowed to testify. It sounds like AEG Live’s case will be done by the end of next week at the latest. Defense attorney Marvin Putnam said it may be done sooner Putnam said he’s only got two or three more live witnesses but didn’t name them. Friday will be a day of video testimony. There will be a rebuttal case, but it’s unclear how many witnesses will be called. Putnam said he may challenge some of the witnesses. The attorneys have a fair amount of work to do on jury instructions and the verdict form before the end of the case. The lawyers and the judge also have to decide how long each side will have for closing arguments. Closings may be 4 hours apiece, or less. A lot of these details will get fleshed out in the next couple of weeks. But clearly, the case is winding down. One of the issues the lawyers argued about this morning was related to Dr. Earley’s testimony about a study he published on propofol. Dr. Earley was contacted by AEG because of research he had done on propofol Earley published a study based on more than 20 case studies of people addicted to propofol (they were all medical professionals.) AEG Live paid to have the study completed. Earley said he compiled some of the materials before his involvement in the case. After he began testifying, AEG Live defense attorney Kathryn Cahan asked about the study and how much AEG Live paid for its completion. Earley said in all, AEG paid about $53k for the study to get completed, including money to pay for a writer, statistician. AEG wasn’t shown an advance copy of the article, which was published in March 2013 in a medical journal, Earley said. Plaintiff's attorneys will be able to ask more questions about the article, including whether it poses a conflict of interest. Earley said he had treated about 25 cases of propofol addiction during his 30-year career _ all were medical professionals. Earley said AEG Live agreed to pay for the study because there wasn’t a lot of literature about propofol addiction. The judge allowed him to take the stand and the jury filed in at 10:53a. In the opening minutes - he talked about scant info on propofol and propofol abuse. In the summer of 2012 he told AEG he would like to do a study that AEG funded The budget was presented in the summer of 2012 for 6 months work. Also in January 2013 Dr. Earley's status changed from consultant to AEG to an expert witness. Now he could review MJ's and court records. Dr. said there was not enough evidence that MJ was addicted to propofol but he was seeking out doctors for the medication And, the propofol was having negative effects on his life and on a medical scale of life expectancy he said MJ condition was grave He used a slide in court to show the 4 reasons he felt MJ was grave. 1. inappropriate use of propofol. 2. Opioid Addiction On the Slide 3. Drug synergy between the propofol and other drugs he used. 4. Obstacles for a successful recovery. He also talked about Propofol used properly in a medical setting. Small changes in the dose can one can go from unconscious to death. That is why there must be a medical setting with and Anesthesiologist monitoring. If breathing stops adjust dose and no harm to patient Dr. Earley will be back on the stand this afternoon at 1:30p still under direct examination. Paul Earley will be back on the stand tomorrow at 9:45 a.m. PDT. AEG Live defense attorney Kathryn Cahan finished up her direc

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    TRANSCRIPTS Dr Earley Sept 3rd 2013, Katherine Jackson V AEG Live

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    Jackson vs AEG Live. Today’s witness is Dr. Paul Earley, an addiction medicine specialist, and addiction Medical Physician from Georg Some of Earley’s deposition was played early in the case by the plaintiffs, but he’s here today testifying as a defense expert. Testimony got started late today because there were lengthy discussions about the next steps in the case and Earley’s testimony. The witness was delayed for about an hour while attorneys for both sides aregued if he should be allowed to testify. It sounds like AEG Live’s case will be done by the end of next week at the latest. Defense attorney Marvin Putnam said it may be done sooner Putnam said he’s only got two or three more live witnesses but didn’t name them. Friday will be a day of video testimony. There will be a rebuttal case, but it’s unclear how many witnesses will be called. Putnam said he may challenge some of the witnesses. The attorneys have a fair amount of work to do on jury instructions and the verdict form before the end of the case. The lawyers and the judge also have to decide how long each side will have for closing arguments. Closings may be 4 hours apiece, or less. A lot of these details will get fleshed out in the next couple of weeks. But clearly, the case is winding down. One of the issues the lawyers argued about this morning was related to Dr. Earley’s testimony about a study he published on propofol. Dr. Earley was contacted by AEG because of research he had done on propofol Earley published a study based on more than 20 case studies of people addicted to propofol (they were all medical professionals.) AEG Live paid to have the study completed. Earley said he compiled some of the materials before his involvement in the case. After he began testifying, AEG Live defense attorney Kathryn Cahan asked about the study and how much AEG Live paid for its completion. Earley said in all, AEG paid about $53k for the study to get completed, including money to pay for a writer, statistician. AEG wasn’t shown an advance copy of the article, which was published in March 2013 in a medical journal, Earley said. Plaintiff's attorneys will be able to ask more questions about the article, including whether it poses a conflict of interest. Earley said he had treated about 25 cases of propofol addiction during his 30-year career _ all were medical professionals. Earley said AEG Live agreed to pay for the study because there wasn’t a lot of literature about propofol addiction. The judge allowed him to take the stand and the jury filed in at 10:53a. In the opening minutes - he talked about scant info on propofol and propofol abuse. In the summer of 2012 he told AEG he would like to do a study that AEG funded The budget was presented in the summer of 2012 for 6 months work. Also in January 2013 Dr. Earley's status changed from consultant to AEG to an expert witness. Now he could review MJ's and court records. Dr. said there was not enough evidence that MJ was addicted to propofol but he was seeking out doctors for the medication And, the propofol was having negative effects on his life and on a medical scale of life expectancy he said MJ condition was grave He used a slide in court to show the 4 reasons he felt MJ was grave. 1. inappropriate use of propofol. 2. Opioid Addiction On the Slide 3. Drug synergy between the propofol and other drugs he used. 4. Obstacles for a successful recovery. He also talked about Propofol used properly in a medical setting. Small changes in the dose can one can go from unconscious to death. That is why there must be a medical setting with and Anesthesiologist monitoring. If breathing stops adjust dose and no harm to patient Dr. Earley will be back on the stand this afternoon at 1:30p still under direct examination. Paul Earley will be back on the stand tomorrow at 9:45 a.m. PDT. AEG Live defense attorney Kathryn Cahan finished up her direc

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    TRANSCRIPTS DR Earley Sept 3rd 2013, Katherine Jackson V AEG Live

    Hochgeladen von

    TeamMichael
    Jackson vs AEG Live. Today’s witness is Dr. Paul Earley, an addiction medicine specialist, and addiction Medical Physician from Georg Some of Earley’s deposition was played early in the case by the plaintiffs, but he’s here today testifying as a defense expert. Testimony got started late today because there were lengthy discussions about the next steps in the case and Earley’s testimony. The witness was delayed for about an hour while attorneys for both sides aregued if he should be allowed to testify. It sounds like AEG Live’s case will be done by the end of next week at the latest. Defense attorney Marvin Putnam said it may be done sooner Putnam said he’s only got two or three more live witnesses but didn’t name them. Friday will be a day of video testimony. There will be a rebuttal case, but it’s unclear how many witnesses will be called. Putnam said he may challenge some of the witnesses. The attorneys have a fair amount of work to do on jury instructions and the verdict form before the end of the case. The lawyers and the judge also have to decide how long each side will have for closing arguments. Closings may be 4 hours apiece, or less. A lot of these details will get fleshed out in the next couple of weeks. But clearly, the case is winding down. One of the issues the lawyers argued about this morning was related to Dr. Earley’s testimony about a study he published on propofol. Dr. Earley was contacted by AEG because of research he had done on propofol Earley published a study based on more than 20 case studies of people addicted to propofol (they were all medical professionals.) AEG Live paid to have the study completed. Earley said he compiled some of the materials before his involvement in the case. After he began testifying, AEG Live defense attorney Kathryn Cahan asked about the study and how much AEG Live paid for its completion. Earley said in all, AEG paid about $53k for the study to get completed, including money to pay for a writer, statistician. AEG wasn’t shown an advance copy of the article, which was published in March 2013 in a medical journal, Earley said. Plaintiff's attorneys will be able to ask more questions about the article, including whether it poses a conflict of interest. Earley said he had treated about 25 cases of propofol addiction during his 30-year career _ all were medical professionals. Earley said AEG Live agreed to pay for the study because there wasn’t a lot of literature about propofol addiction. The judge allowed him to take the stand and the jury filed in at 10:53a. In the opening minutes - he talked about scant info on propofol and propofol abuse. In the summer of 2012 he told AEG he would like to do a study that AEG funded The budget was presented in the summer of 2012 for 6 months work. Also in January 2013 Dr. Earley's status changed from consultant to AEG to an expert witness. Now he could review MJ's and court records. Dr. said there was not enough evidence that MJ was addicted to propofol but he was seeking out doctors for the medication And, the propofol was having negative effects on his life and on a medical scale of life expectancy he said MJ condition was grave He used a slide in court to show the 4 reasons he felt MJ was grave. 1. inappropriate use of propofol. 2. Opioid Addiction On the Slide 3. Drug synergy between the propofol and other drugs he used. 4. Obstacles for a successful recovery. He also talked about Propofol used properly in a medical setting. Small changes in the dose can one can go from unconscious to death. That is why there must be a medical setting with and Anesthesiologist monitoring. If breathing stops adjust dose and no harm to patient Dr. Earley will be back on the stand this afternoon at 1:30p still under direct examination. Paul Earley will be back on the stand tomorrow at 9:45 a.m. PDT. AEG Live defense attorney Kathryn Cahan finished up her direc

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    KATHERINE JACKSON V AEG LIVE September 3

    rd
    2013 AM SESSION ONLY, WAITING ON M
    !r" #$% E#r%e&
    C'$rt" Good morning.
    C'$rt" Can you make your appearances?
    Mr" #()*+" Yes. Good morning, your honor. Brian Panish for the plaintfs.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Good morning, your honor. Kein Boyle for the plaintfs.
    M*" C#+#(" Good morning. Kathryn Cahan for defendants.
    M*" ,)(#" Good morning. !essica "te##ins Bina for the defendants.

    Mr" $t(#m" $nd %arin Putnam for the defendants.


    C'$rt" Good morning. & see you hae a proposed 'ury instructon you (ant me to read. )his (as 'ointly agreed
    upon, correct?
    Mr" $t(#m" Yes, your honor.
    C'$rt" Plaintfs?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yes, your honor.
    C'$rt" $ll right. )hen & (ill read that. )he other issue & had is, & (anted to gie the 'ury an estmate of the trial,
    so & (anted something realistc to tell them this morning. "o if you could gie me an estmate, then & can gie
    that to them. $nd then & (ant to talk a#out some other things.
    Mr" $t(#m" *e #eliee (e (ill #e done #y the end of ne+t (eek, your honor. *e (ill see if (e can ,nish
    earlier.
    C'$rt" You (ill ,nish (hen?
    Mr" $t(#m" -nd of ne+t (eek, if not earlier.
    Mr" #()*+" "o that (ill #e the ./th?
    Mr" $t(#m" ..th or .0th.
    Mr" #()*+" "o #y the end of the (eek you1ll #e done?
    Mr" ,'&%e" *ell, yeah.
    Mr" #()*+" 2opefully.
    Mr" $t(#m" Yeah. But if & can, & (ill shorten it een further. "o the longest, &1m saying, (ill #e through the end
    of ne+t (eek.
    C'$rt" 3kay. 3kay.
    Mr" #()*+" $nd then 44
    C'$rt" $nd then that (ould #e the defense case. $nd then the plaintfs re#u5al?
    Mr" #()*+" $nd then the re#u5al, (e (ere preparing to start on the .6th pursuant to %r. Putnam telling us
    that1s (hen he thought they (ould #e done. $nd then there are 44 there1s court on the .6th, .7th, half day on
    the .8th. %ay#e (e could ,nish #y then. 9ot sure. $ctually, there1s also court on the .:th and 0;th. "o there1s
    four and a half days of court that day, so & see there1s no reason (e can1t #e done #y that (eek.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd, your honor, & also let them kno( they should #e prepared to start ne+t (eek. & told them
    the latest (ould #e the .6th, so & (ant to make sure that (as noted.

    Mr" #()*+" 2e told us they (ould gie us a (eek1s notce.


    Mr" $t(#m" 9eer said that.
    Mr" #()*+" Yes, he did, multple tmes on the record. & hae the citatons.
    Mr" $t(#m" & disagree.
    C'$rt" *ell, if they do rest earlier, you cannot #e ready?
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, some may, #ut other (itnesses & prepared for the .6th, as he kept telling me to come on
    that day. & kept asking, and he said he (ould gie us a (eek1s notce.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hat1s not correct.
    C'$rt" & understand that. But een if you had to, can you scram#le and get some 44
    Mr" #()*+" & can try, #ut & kno( seeral can1t come untl the (eek of the .6th.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )here1s t(o days ne+t (eek, they kno( (hat ideos they hae in the can. "o, really, it sounds like
    the <ueston is= are they going to call another lie (itness or not? )hat1s the only issue.
    C'$rt" You mean one lie (itness?
    Mr" $t(#m" )here1s actually three, your honor.
    C'$rt" 3h. "o, then, it1s unlikely (e1ll #e done #y that tme.
    Mr" $t(#m" Yes, #ut it may #e unlikely that (e een need to call them.
    Mr" #()*+" "o they told us 44 and & can get the citatons.
    Mr" $t(#m" &1d loe to see them.
    Mr" #()*+" You1e heard him say the .6th.
    C'$rt" 9o, & understand. & understand the .6th is the day you had planned. But & guess (hat &1m trying to ,nd
    out is, if you had to rearrange it, could you? "ounds like 44
    Mr" #()*+" "ome can1t. But & (ill try for others, certainly.
    C'$rt" 3kay. But there are some you cannot?
    Mr" #()*+" "ome cannot.
    Mr" ,'&%e" *e1ll try.
    Mr" #()*+" But they might #e pre5y short. )hat1s the only thing. & don1t kno( if they1re going to take up ery
    much tme.

    C'$rt" )he ones you can #ring up are short ones?


    Mr" #()*+" >ight.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd, your honor, there1s one thing that gies us concern that &1e noted for the court, is my
    concern is, #efore they een rested they said they had four re#u5al (itnesses 44
    Mr" #()*+" 9o. %ore.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hey said it on the record. $nd as you kno(, it1s not proper re#u5al. &f you can call them in your
    case4in4chief, then you should do so. "o one thing & should note for the record, as & did preiously, &1m looking
    for(ard to hearing (ho they are. "ince they kno( (ho they are, &1d loe to kno( (ho they are, #ecause there
    may #e grounds to challenge them in terms of proper re#u5al.
    Mr" #()*+" *e1ll see. *e1ll follo( the same rules they1e #een follo(ing. $nd there1s more than four.
    C'$rt" *ell, & guess you1ll kno( (hen you kno(. & don1t think they hae an o#ligaton to disclose them to you
    no(.
    Mr" $t(#m" 9o, they do not, your honor.
    M*" ,)(#" *ell 44
    Mr" $t(#m" & could #e done as soon as ?riday, is (hat &1m trying to do.
    C'$rt" *ell, the only thing, %r. Putnam, is that there1s a #ig diference #et(een only haing one lie (itness
    le@ and then haing three.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hey1re ery short, if & call them. $nd the three of them hae some(hat oerlapping #ut not
    <uite the same testmony. "o the determinaton &1m trying to make, in terms of the record, is to make sure &
    hae in the record (hat & need, is (hether or not & need to call each of them. $nd if & don1t need to call each of
    them, (hat com#inaton, if any. "o (e1e #een looking at it oer the last seeral days. "tll looking at the court
    record, your honor, to check the places (here eidence came in that (asn1t necessarily planned (ith that
    (itness to see if that coered this, #ecause &, like the court, is ery concerned (ith ho( long (e1e #een here
    in terms of the 'ury. $nd partcularly, as & noted all along, (ith the defense, that (e o@en hae only t(o days a
    (eek to put on our defense. "o (e1e decided it1s pro#a#ly prudent for us, instead of going t(o a (eek, t(o a
    (eek, t(o a (eek, to see if (e1re coered and try to end this sooner, is (hat &1m trying to say.
    Mr" #()*+" Your honor, if he has three short (itnesses, and he calls them all, it (ould seem like he (ould
    ,nish on the ..th. )hen the pro#lem is, if he doesn1t make that determinaton untl "aturday, or (hateer,
    there1s no court on the :th and .;th. $nd let1s say he decides he1s not calling any (itnesses, and (e could
    sho( up, and there1s no (itnesses at all on the ..th.
    Mr" $t(#m" & (ill certainly kno( #y ?riday. %y intenton has #een, (hy (e (ere looking and (orked oer the
    holiday (eekend, is to kno( #y ?riday. "o there should #e #y the end 44 #y ?riday & could do that thing called
    restng (here you tell the 'ury you1re restng. $nd then they (ill hae ,e days, (hich is more than (e had, to
    kno( that they1re startng their case. $nd (e certainly didn1t hae ,e days to kno( (hen they (ere ending
    theirs and startng ours. & think that1s ade<uate tme.

    Mr" #()*+" $ctually, (e gae them more than a (eek. $nd (e told you (hen (e (ere going to rest, and (e
    did. &t doesn1t ma5er. & 'ust need to kno( 44
    Mr" $t(#m" & (ould plan for ne+t (eek.
    Mr" #()*+" 44 (hether (e should try to schedule for (itnesses on the ..th and .0th.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd & am trying to 44
    C'$rt" *hen (ill you kno( on ?riday?
    Mr" $t(#m" Certainly kno( (hen (e get here. Aideo that day.
    Mr" #()*+" 9o court on )hursday.
    Mr" $t(#m" Yes. *e hae argument on )hursday.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, no 'ury.
    C'$rt" 3kay. "o ideo all day ?riday?
    Mr" #()*+" Yeah. $ll right. "o let1s 'ust assume hypothetcally 44 & mean, there1s going to hae to #e some tme
    (ith instructons, (ord form, arguments, tming of arguments. & (anted to talk a#out that. & don1t kno( if this
    is the right tme or not.
    C'$rt" *ell, & don1t kno(.
    Mr" #()*+" & mean, & don1t (ant the arguments to go on for days and days.
    C'$rt" 9o, it shouldn1t. & mean, there are some standard instructons in the area, right, in the cases?
    Mr" #()*+" >ight.
    C'$rt" "o in that case, there shouldn1t #e too much tnkering (ith the 'ury instructons.
    Mr" #()*+" *e hae to go oer the erdict forms.
    M*" ,)(#" )here are special instructons as (ell and t(eaking some of the ones (e su#mi5ed #efore #ecause
    of the eidence, your honor. *e plan to su#mit ne( ersions.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hat1s (hat (e (ere (orking on this (eekend, to look #ack through the entre record, see (hat
    actually occurred, and compare that (ith the original, (hat (e proided, throughout the (eekend and
    realiBing that the end is no(.
    C'$rt" 9o. )hat happens.
    Mr" #()*+" "o can & 'ust 44 is the court thinking a#out puCng 44 & (ould like to hae a limitaton on the tme of
    arguments. "ame amount for #oth sides.

    C'$rt" $rgument on the 'ury instructons or argument in closing?


    Mr" #()*+" 9o. ?inal arguments.
    C'$rt" $ll right. *hat are you suggestng?
    Mr" #()*+" & think like three hours. & don1t kno(.
    Mr" $t(#m" & (as thinking more like a day, and a day, #ut & (ould #e happy to 44
    C'$rt" )hinking a#out?
    Mr" $t(#m" $ day and a day.
    C'$rt" & (as thinking of four hours.
    Mr" $t(#m" ?our is (hat (e (ere thinking. )hree is (hat (e (ere thinking, a day and a day, #ecause (e1re
    usually here four to four and a half hours.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, #ut you hae re#u5al.
    C'$rt" )hat1s an additon. &n other (ords, you hae four hours for your opening and closing and four hours.
    Mr" #()*+" & don1t kno( that & (ould go four hours in my ,rst argument.
    C'$rt" 3kay.
    Mr" #()*+" But & don1t kno( yet. &s that (hat they 44 %r. Putnam (ants, four hours?
    Mr" $t(#m" & (as 'ust 44
    C'$rt" & don1t kno(. & thought perhaps it (ould #e four, #ut if that1s three, that1s ,ne.
    Mr" $t(#m" & (ould prefer four to three, certainly.
    Mr" #()*+" 2o( a#out three and a half?
    Mr" $t(#m" & think four (ould #e good. *e hae #een here since $pril 0nd.
    C'$rt" $ lot of that (as 'ury selecton.
    Mr" $t(#m" $pril 0:th.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, it (as tme <ualifying.
    C'$rt" Yeah.
    Mr" #()*+" 3pening statements (ere $pril 0:th.

    C'$rt" "o three and a half to four is (hat &1m hearing for argument. 2ae plaintfs 44 sounds like defendants
    hae gone #ack to look at their 'ury instructons and do some reisions and restoratons. Plaintfs, hae you
    had a chance to think a#out that?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yeah. *e didn1t hae ery many. & don1t recall if (e had any specials. But (e might 44 in looking at
    (hat they hae, (e might propose a couple counter4specials. But our plan is to try to stck (ith caci as much as
    possi#le.
    M*" ,)(#" & think you had three or four specials.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yeah. *e had 44
    C'$rt" *ell, hopefully it doesn1t sound like it (ill take too much argument.
    Mr" #()*+" *e hae the erdict form.
    Mr" ,'&%e" & think they1re going to 44
    C'$rt" You think that1s (here the argument1s going 44
    Mr" ,'&%e" & mean, & 44
    Mr" #()*+" Based on (hat they1e su#mi5ed, (e hae a lot.
    C'$rt" 3kay. 2ae you considered reising the erdict form?
    Mr" $t(#m" *e are.
    M*" ,)(#" Yes, your honor. *e1re going to #e proposing a reised erdict form (ith the t(eaked instructons. &
    don1t think it (ill #e dramatcally diferent, #ut there (ill #e reisions.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Your honor, if you recall, their erdict form (as a#out .7 pages long. $nd & think your honor
    already indicated that the court didn1t #eliee they (ere going to go (ith all those <uestons.
    Mr" #()*+" )hat1s going to #e their argument.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )hat (ill #e argument.
    M*" ,)(#" &f you recall, your honor, actually, #oth partes had the same num#er of <uestons, and & think your
    honor (anted something slightly shorter. )here1s also another issue (ith the erdict form. &f you recall,
    plaintfs needed to get a (aier from their minor clients regarding the fact that they (anted the damages to
    #e 44 from all their clients, the damages apportoned indiidually for each client, as opposed to a lump sum,
    and they (ere going to go get that (aier. & don1t kno( if that1s happened yet, other(ise the erdict form (ill
    hae the damages payment in a lump sum.
    C'$rt" & kind of remem#er something a#out that.

    Mr" #()*+" Psa vs. Canavin 44 it1s Canavin vs. Psa is the case that (e1re proceeding under. *e1ll get the
    appropriate agreement.
    C'$rt" $ll right. %ake sure you gie that to me #ecause 44
    Mr" ,'&%e" & think there1s an agreement #et(een the partes.
    Mr" $t(#m" )here (as.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )hey (ant a (aier from our clients.
    Mr" $t(#m" &t (as agreed to, the (ay 44
    Mr" #()*+" $nd the case is Canavin, c4a4n4a44&4n, vs. Psa, and it1s actually in the use note in the (rongful4
    death instructon.
    C'$rt" 3h, thank you. & can look that up, then.
    M*" ,)(#" )he idea #eing, your honor, if you1re spliCng the damages from a lump sum, there1s argua#ly
    conDict amongst each of the plaintfs, and they can certainly (aie that conDict, #ut they need to do so.
    Mr" #()*+" $ctually, it1s the other (ay 44
    C'$rt" "o you don1t ask on the erdict form for them to apporton the damages among the plaintfs or 44
    Mr" #()*+" You do.
    M*" ,)(#" 2istorically, your honor, it1s done as a lump sum. )hey (ant apportonment. )hat issue came up
    #efore. $nd the case la( says you can hae apportonment, #ut you need a (aier.
    Mr" #()*+" ?irst of all, it1s not historically done in lump sum, it1s historically done in apportonment so the
    conDict doesn1t occur. But (e (ill get the (aier. )hat1s for us to do.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yeah, that1s for ours. Presuma#ly, #oth sides representng the indiiduals in the company might
    hae their o(n conDicts.
    C'$rt" >ight. )hat1s your concern. Eepends on ho( your clients (ant to do it.
    Mr" ,'&%e" >ight.
    Mr" #()*+" *e don1t (ant to hae a su#se<uent, assuming that happens, issue regarding that.
    C'$rt" 3kay. &1ll read the use note. Eo you remem#er (hich 'ury instructon?
    Mr" #()*+" & can ,nd it for you.
    M*" ,)(#" Pro#a#ly /: 44 (hateer the one on (rongful death is. /:/. or /:F..
    C'$rt" 3n the (rongful death.

    M*" ,)(#" )he (rongful4death instructon. &ts o(n instructon.


    C'$rt" 3kay.
    Mr" #()*+" "o 44
    C'$rt" )hat (ould #e helpful for me to read that. 3kay.
    Mr" #()*+" 9o(, & assume & don1t kno( (hen (e argue, #ut the 06th, 07th and the /;th of "eptem#er,
    there1s no trial.
    C'$rt" *ell 44
    Mr" #()*+" *e haen1t gone past that yet.
    T+e -%er." )he 06th, 07th, 'uror no. 7 44
    Mr" #()*+" $nd no. /; and alternate G, (hich, if (e1re in deli#eratons at that tme, that (ouldn1t #e an issue.
    C'$rt" 2ae (e asked them to consider the "eptem#er 44 (e did already?
    T+e -%er." Yes.
    Mr" $t(#m" But, your honor, if (e1re a#le to end in the tme period (e1re talking a#out, this may not #e an
    issue at all.
    Mr" #()*+" 9o. But deli#eratons.
    Mr" $t(#m" "tll may not #e an issue.
    C'$rt" & don1t think it1s as #ig a deal. )hen it1s on them, as far as ho( long they take.
    Mr" #()*+" Eepends on (hen (e argue. & mean, & don1t (ant to #e arguing up to the day, and then they1ll #e
    gone for three days.
    Mr" $t(#m" "eems to me (e could #e giing our closing the (eek of the .6th.
    Mr" #()*+" & don1t think so, #ut (e1ll see.
    Mr" $t(#m" &n (hich case this is not an issue.
    C'$rt" *ell, (ithout telling me ho( many issues you hae in re#u5al, ho( many days do you think re#u5al
    (ill take?
    Mr" #()*+" %ay#e three days.
    C'$rt" )hree?

    Mr" #()*+" %ay#e four.


    Mr" $t(#m" "o, again, your honor, if they hae the a#ility to go ne+t (eek, (e could therefore #e a#le to get
    44 (e hae 44 it1s conceia#le to gie closing at the end of that (eek. $lso, your honor, it1s possi#le, in light of
    the court days ne+t (eek, that (e could hae some of these arguments, or some of the discussions ne+t (eek
    (ith the court, since (e only hae t(o days (ith the 'ury, in terms of 'ury instructons, in terms of the erdict
    form, et cetera.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell 44
    C'$rt" "o #asically you1re saying use some of that do(n tme?
    Mr" $t(#m" Yeah.
    Mr" #()*+" ./th, & can1t #e here. :th and .;th (ould pro#a#ly #e 3K.
    M*" ,)(#" *e could resere the early part of ne+t (eek to deal (ith erdict form and 'ury instructons?
    Mr" $t(#m" Yes.
    M*" ,)(#" 2opefully resole those issues?
    Mr" $t(#m" %onday and )uesday, your honor?
    C'$rt" *ould #e for 44 are those half days or full days?
    Mr" $t(#m" *e (ould #e (ith you full days, nothing (ith the 'ury.
    C'$rt" ?ull days. 9on4'ury full days?
    M*" ,)(#" >ight.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd do 'ury instructons and erdict form.
    M*" ,)(#" $nd those issues (ould #e done, eery#ody (ill kno(, for closing, the 'ury instructons and the
    erdict form.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd that (ould gie us the (eek to do so.
    C'$rt" 3kay. "o in terms of 44 the one thing 44 are you ,nished, or you hae more you (ant to tell me in terms
    of tming?
    Mr" #()*+" )iming? !ust the soonest he can tell us, the #e5er. )hat1s all.
    C'$rt" 3h, %r. Putnam?
    Mr" #()*+" Yes. & don1t (ant to schedule someone on the ..th, and then & hae to tell them they can1t come.
    )hat1s all. & kno( he1s going to try to do that, so &1ll accept that and (e1ll go for(ard.

    Mr" $t(#m" $nd (e kno( (hat that1s like, haing done that for days startng and not startng for months
    later. $nd so that1s (hy &1e indicated as soon as & kno(, &1m going to let you kno(. $nd you1ll certainly hae, at
    a minimum, ,e days to do so.
    Mr" #()*+" ?ie days? 3kay.
    C'$rt" $ll right.
    Mr" #()*+" $ll right. "o that1s )hursday.
    Mr" $t(#m" ?riday morning. )hat (ould #e *ednesday startng. $nd & (ill stck to that, %r. Panish. & kno( &
    (ill hae that.
    C'$rt" 3kay. )he issue that & hae that & (anted to raise (ith you is &1e spoken to sergeant *heatcro@, (ho is
    no( retred from the sherif1s department and no( does court security. $nd he has suggested to me 44 actually
    suggested it a (hile ago, & 'ust haen1t raised it (ith you 44 is partal se<uester during the deli#eratons. $nd
    that has a (hole procedure associated (ith it. $nd #efore & tell the 'ury that that1s (hat (e1re going to do, &
    (anted 44 & stll call him sergeant *heatcro@, een though he1s retred 44 #ut to 'ust meet (ith you and to
    descri#e 'ust to you (hat that procedure entails so that you can tell me if you hae any concerns or if you hae
    any suggestons or critcisms or anything else. "ome of you may hae e+perience (ith that, and may#e you ,nd
    some things (ork #e5er than others. 2e descri#ed it to me, #ut & think he should present it to you, and then
    you can e+press your concerns to him, and if you hae concerns, & guess e+press them to me. But & (ant to stay
    out of that. &t1s really a security issue. But & (ant you to hae informaton a#out ho( it (orks, and if you hae
    an o#'ecton to it. & don1t kno( if you hae an o#'ecton to it no(, if you do.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, & think 44 (hen you say H"ergeant,H is that the gentleman that1s in charge of the court
    security?
    C'$rt" >ight.
    Mr" #()*+" 3kay. *ell 44
    C'$rt" 2ae you seen him? )all, thin guy?
    Mr" #()*+" Yeah, & kno( (ho he is.
    C'$rt" *heatcro@.
    Mr" #()*+" & kno( (ho he is, retred from I.$.".3., and he is in charge of court security. *e1e 44 he1s #een
    around. &1e seen him around.
    C'$rt" 2e proides 44 he (as head of 'udicial security.
    Mr" #()*+" $nd no( he1s in charge of eerything?
    C'$rt" )he (hole thing.

    Mr" #()*+" $nd he1s #een around during the trial. &1e spoken (ith him. & don1t kno( ho( you (ere planning
    on 44 (as it that the la(yers (ould meet (ith him separate from the court, or (ould he come and meet (ith
    the court? 2o( (ould you propose it?
    C'$rt" Yeah. Because it1s security related and sensite, it1s something that isn1t going to #e made pu#lic. "o
    it1s something the pu#lic isn1t going to kno( a#out. )hat1s the point of se<uestering. &t1s a partal se<uester,
    not a full se<uester. & think you need to #e a(are of (hat that entails. %ay#e not the e+act details of it all, #ut
    the general procedure. $nd if you hae any concerns a#out it, you can e+press your concerns or suggestons to
    sergeant *heatcro@.
    Mr" #()*+" "o is it the plan that (e (ould meet (ith the sergeant (ith the court, or #asically (hat is the
    plan?
    C'$rt" & (as 'ust going to hae him do a presentaton to you in the 'ury room and e+press to you (hat he1s
    allo(ed to e+press to you. $nd you can tell him your concerns. & (asn1t going to #e inoled in it, #ecause,
    frankly, & really 44 security is mostly their thing. & mean, they decide the security. *e hae ery li5le input. *e
    hae some, #ut not a lot in terms of ho( it1s done.
    Mr" $t(#m" & think pro#a#ly )hursday a@ernoon, your honor, #ecause )hursday morning is the argument. "o
    if you (ant to e+plain )hursday a@ernoon.
    Mr" #()*+" & got to go to 44 & hae to take my son to a 44 & (as going to ask if & could go to take him to a medical
    appointment. "o & (ould #e happy to do any other tme. 3r defense could meet (ith him, and then (e could
    meet (ith him and <ueston him. & mean, & hae some idea (hat he1s pro#a#ly going to say, #ut & (ould like to
    talk to him a#out it.
    C'$rt" 3kay. "o 44 #ut &1d really rather do it all kind of together 44
    Mr" #()*+" 3kay.
    C'$rt" 44 so you1re a(are (hat they1re saying and their concerns.
    Mr" #()*+" 3kay. "o the :th? *e should #e ,ne to do it then.
    Mr" $t(#m" You mean at the same tme (e1re doing the 'ury instructons, erdict form on the :th, .;th?
    )hat1s ,ne.
    Mr" #()*+" & mean, eery#ody should #e there together. )hen (e could take out an hour of tme and meet
    (ith them.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hat1s ,ne.
    C'$rt" 3kay. "o the :th or .;th?
    Mr" $t(#m" Jh4huh.
    C'$rt" 3kay. &t shouldn1t take long, #ut, you kno(, & think you should #e a(are of (hat it entails.

    Mr" $t(#m" Certainly, partcularly the fact it1s a partal se<uester. )hat comes in ery diferent forms, so &1d
    like to hear (hat he has to say.
    C'$rt" Yeah, and (hat they (ant to do. $nd they1e #een a(are of the issues that hae come up throughout
    the trial. "o & think he has 44 at least from my discussions (ith him, he has a ery speci,c idea of ho( he thinks
    it (ill (ork. $nd he1s done it #efore, so he1s a(are of ho( it (orks and (hat (orks. $nd if any of you hae any
    suggestons or concerns, you can also raise them. "o, any(ay, 3K. "o the :th or .;th, then, &1ll hae him e+plain
    44 meet (ith him in the 'ury room, and you can talk (ith him a#out it.
    Mr" #()*+" "ure.
    C'$rt" & don1t kno( ho( detailed he1s going to get (ith you, #ut & think he1ll gie you a general outline of ho(
    it (ill (ork. $nd then he1ll hae to hae a discussion (ith the 'urors at some point, too.
    Mr" #()*+" >ight. Because 44
    C'$rt" But & (ant to run it #y you ,rst, to get that done, and then & can e+plain to the 'ury (hat1s going to
    (ork. 3r he can e+plain to the 'ury. & (on1t e+plain. &1ll hae sergeant *heatcro@ e+plain it to them.
    Mr" #()*+" )hat1s done priately, right?
    C'$rt" &t (ill #e reported, #ut a sealed transcript. &t (ill hae to #e sealed, de,nitely, #ecause that1s
    something 44 (e o#iously can1t hae people kno(. Eefeats the purpose of the se<uester, so 44
    Mr" #()*+" $nd (ould the la(yers #e there (hen that (as done?
    C'$rt" & don1t think so. & can ask if that1s something that the la(yers should #e 44 & don1t kno(. )hat1s a good
    <ueston.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, & guess 44
    C'$rt" & don1t kno(.
    Mr" #()*+" *e can take that up (ith him (hen (e talk (ith him.
    C'$rt" Yeah. 9eli1s 'ust raised (ith me, and you1re right, (e had a discussion (ith sergeant *heatcro@. )here
    (ould #e details that (ould #e disclosed to the 'urors that (ouldn1t #e disclosed to counsel.
    Mr" $t(#m" >ight.
    C'$rt" "o she1s right. You (ould not #e present for that. & could #e present. &1m not sure & need to #e, #ut &
    don1t think counsel (ill #e, so that ans(ers your <ueston.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, there (ill #e a record of it, though?
    C'$rt" )here (ill #e a record. *e can seal it. $nd & guess if you had to look at it, you could, a@er the trial.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, &1m uncomforta#le (ith some third party, een though & kno( he1s head of security, talking
    to the 'urors (ithout haing 44 (ho kno(s.

    C'$rt" & could 44


    Mr" #()*+" *e could talk to him a#out it.
    C'$rt" & could #e present, perhaps, if that (ould make you more comforta#le, (hile he1s e+plaining to the
    'urors so you (ould #e more comforta#le.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, (e1ll talk a#out that a@er (e talk to him.
    C'$rt" 3kay. Iet me talk to sergeant *heatcro@ to make sure "eptem#er :th or .;th (orks for him. & think
    that (as all.
    Mr" #()*+" 9o( & hae some issues on the trial.
    C'$rt" 3h, 3K. )here are more?
    Mr" ,'&%e" )(o things, your honor. 3ne is the defense ,led a moton in limine to limit cross4e+aminaton of Er.
    -arley, (ho is their (itness for today.
    C'$rt" & haen1t seen it.
    Mr" ,'&%e" *e ,led oppositon this morning.
    M*" C#+#(" *e ,led it $ugust .:th. )hat (as the one (e (ere talking a#out last (eek, asking (hen they
    (ere going to get oppositon in. You gae them untl today. )hey ,led something this morning. "o it afects the
    scope of #oth the direct e+aminaton and the cross4e+aminaton, so (e1d like to resole that #efore he takes
    the stand.
    C'$rt" *hy don1t you tell me (hat it says?
    Mr" ,'&%e" *ell 44
    M*" C#+#(" &t1s our moton, so &1m happy to e+plain it.
    C'$rt" 3kay. ?irst of all, Er. -arley is a defense (itness?
    M*" C#+#(" Yes. 2e is a physician (ho is an addicton e+pert. 2e1s also #een designated as a life4e+pectancy
    e+pert for us. $lthough he1s not an actuary, he doesn1t put a num#er on it, he talks a#out the efects of drug
    addicton on life4e+pectancy, and he1s an e+pert on propofol. $nd Er. -arley (as initally retained in ?e#ruary of
    0;.. as a consultng e+pert to help educate the defendants a#out propofol, #ecause no#ody kne( anything
    a#out it, and almost no literature. $nd he1s one of the people (ho does study this, #ecause his addicton
    treatment program focuses on addicted physicians and other health care proiders. "o he1s seen more
    propofol addicton than almost any#ody. $nd so in his consultng capacity 44 and this is something he test,ed
    to in his depositon 44 he essentally gathered the e+istng literature, ans(ered <uestons for us a#out (hat is
    propofol, ho( does it (ork, things like that. )hat1s something (e allo(ed him to talk a#out at his depositon,
    to the e+tent that it all afects the opinions that he1s ofering or the things that he1s discussing as a testfying
    e+pert. $nd there (as a second phase (here Er. -arley had informed us that he (as in the process of (orking
    on a retrospecte artcle, looking at 00 people (ho had health care proiders (ho had come into treatment

    for propofol addicton, looking #ack at their case ,les, crunching the data on those, and it (as something he
    (anted to put together and pu#lish, and he hadn1t #een a#le to do that yet #ecause he hadn1t had the
    resources aaila#le. "o $-G Iie agreed to proide the funding necessary to complete the study. )hat (as
    disclosed. &t (as disclosed (hen he su#mi5ed the study, consistent (ith the Journal Of Addicton Medicine
    rules for pu#licaton. )he actual pu#lished artcle has a li5le #lur# at the end that says H)hanks to $-G Iie for
    the unrestricted funding.H so that (as sort of phase &&. $nd all the three phrases are temporally distnct as (ell.
    2e sort of ,nished the consultng (ork, he did the study, (hich (e funded #ut (as not part of consultng for
    us. )hat (as something he #egan (orking on in 0;;8 and ,nished and su#mi5ed for pu#licaton in, & #eliee,
    late 0;.0. $nd then in !anuary 0;./, (e retained him as a testfying e+pert to talk a#out life e+pectancy and
    addicton generally and also to talk speci,cally a#out propofol addicton. 2is study doesn1t really relate to the
    issues that he1s testfying a#out, #ut (e allo(ed full e+ploraton of it in his depositon to the e+tent if he read
    anything during the consultng period, or looked at anything during the tme he (as (orking on his study that
    added to his kno(ledge #ased on propofol, and he said there (as nothing speci,c that comes to mind, #ut (e
    sort of opened the doors on that, let them e+plore it. )here1s no 44 this is not one of these cases (here
    some#ody does, you kno(, modeling of an accident untl they get a really good model, and then they said all
    the old stuf is consultng, and only this one good model for us is testfying. *e1re not shielding anything (ith
    that. $t the same tme, the case la( is clear that someone1s (ork as a consultng e+pert, to the e+tent that it is
    not co4e+tensie (ith their testfying (ork, does not lose (ork4product protecton (hen they1re conerted to a
    testfying e+pert. Certainly, on a go4for(ard #asis, once someone is designated as a testfying e+pert,
    eerything is open and fair game. $nd (e1re actually 44 #ecause there1s no there, there1s no secret or issue (ith
    his consultng (ork, (e (ere pre5y generous (ith allo(ing plaintfs to e+plore that and talk a#out the kind of
    (ork he did. $t the same tme, you kno(, (e o#'ected to discoery seeking his e4mail correspondence (ith us
    during that tme, #ecause (e1re not re<uired to (aie the (ork4product priilege. *e didn1t (aie it. )here
    (as no moton to compel a#out that. *e (ent through all of this the end of march, #eginning of $pril (hen
    his depositon occurred. *e sent e4mails #ack and forth on the case la(, and it ended (ith an e4mail that & sent
    saying H(ell, here1s our reading of the case la(.H there (as neer a moton to compel, neer an issue there.
    C'$rt" %oton to compel?
    Mr" #()*+" *hat?
    M*" C#+#(" Eocuments relatng to his consultng ,le, to the e+tent that one e+ists, or correspondence from
    the consultng phases of his (ork. $nd so (e think it (ould #e improper to raise that no(. )he other thing that
    our moton in limine addresses is, (e hae no pro#lem (ith plaintfs talking a#out the fact that (e funded 44
    $-G Iie funded the study, the amount that (as paid, ho( Er. -arley feels a#out haing the study pu#lished,
    things like that. But (e think that their 44 and in fact their oppositon con,rms that they (ant to infer that
    there1s some conDict of interest for Er. -arley in pu#lishing this study at a tme (hen he (as retained #y $-G
    Iie in a consultng capacity. )he study (as su#mi5ed for pu#licaton prior to the testfying e+pert engagement
    #eginning, although it (asn1t pu#lished untl later #ecause these things take a (hile. But it (as su#mi5ed for
    pu#licaton #efore he (as retained as a testfying e+pert.
    C'$rt" 3kay. &t (as pu#lished in 0;.0?
    M*" C#+#(" &t (as march 0;./ it (as pu#lished.
    C'$rt" 3h.
    M*" C#+#(" 2e su#mi5ed it #ack in the fall of 0;.0, and it (as !anuary of 0;./ (hen (e asked him to testfy
    for us.

    Mr" ,'&%e" 2e (orked on it (hile he (as consultng for them.


    M*" C#+#(" *ell, essentally his consultng (ork gathering pu#lished artcles for us had ended. 2e ,nished up
    the study (ith his staf, and then 44 so it1s three really distnct tme periods. &n any eent, he follo(ed the rules
    of addicton medicine in terms of disclosure. )here1s no conDict of interest here. *e don1t (ant to create this
    trial (ithin a trial on conDict of interest, (here they tried to get into it (ith Er. "chnoll, and they tried to get
    into it (ith Er. CBeisler, and so (e kne( this (as coming, (hich is (hy (e ,led the moton. But there is no
    conDict. $nd & don1t hae a pro#lem (ith calling him to the stand, if plaintfs (ant to oir dire him in front of
    your honor outside the presence of the 'ury on this issue. )hat (ould #e perfectly ,ne. But & don1t (ant to end
    up (ith lengthy cross4e+aminaton a#out a supposed conDict of interest that 'ust does not e+ist (here (e
    (ould hae to call in a re#u5al (itness to talk a#out 'ournal pu#licaton ethics, and they1d call their o(n
    re#u5al (itness. $nd the case la( is <uite clear that a trial (ithin a trial on something so collateral to a
    (itness1s testmony is inappropriate. $nd plaintfs1 #rief focuses on 78; in saying that they should #e allo(ed
    to do it.
    C'$rt" & think the <ueston (ould #e= ho( did $-G Iie get inoled (ith funding propofol?
    M*" C#+#(" Because there1s, like, no pu#lished data a#out this.
    C'$rt" *hy (ould they #e interested in this?
    M*" C#+#(" Because no#ody kne( anything a#out 44
    C'$rt" !ust out of the goodness of your heart?
    Mr" $t(#m" 9o.
    M*" C#+#(" 9o, your honor.
    C'$rt" )here1s 'ust no informaton on propofol, geeB, may#e (e ought to fund this?
    Mr" $t(#m" & can tell you e+actly, if you can stop smirking for a second so she can hae an ans(er.
    Mr" ,'&%e" &1d like to respond to the moton.
    C'$rt" 9o.
    Mr" $t(#m" &1m ans(ering a <ueston of the court.
    C'$rt" & 'ust ,nd it kind of 44
    Mr" $t(#m" *hat it (as, your honor, at that tme, as you kno(, propofol (as something no#ody had eer
    heard of.
    C'$rt" >ight.
    Mr" $t(#m" *hen (e tried to look into, you kno(, (hat is it, and (hat is the terms of addicton in terms of
    death, et cetera, (e (ere geCng all this stuf that (as talking a#out health care professionals, as (ell as stuf

    that (as talking a#out (hat the indices (ere for a person (ho tends to fall in the category of a person using it.
    &n looking into it, (e found a couple people, including Er. -arley, (ho (ere preeminent people on it. "o (e
    reached out to him, sort of (orked (ith him, said, Hgie us some artcles, (hat do you kno( a#out it? Can you
    ans(er these <uestons?H
    C'$rt" But your interest in it (as generated #ecause 44
    Mr" $t(#m" )he case.
    C'$rt" 44 of the case.
    Mr" $t(#m" $#solutely, no <ueston. )he case. )rust me, & (asn1t interested in it preiously. & hadn1t heard of
    it preiously.
    C'$rt" & think most of us hadn1t.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd so (e (ere talking to him, and at the tme (e (ere e+ploring a num#er of issues, and
    during this tme (e (ere talking a#out studies, (hat studies e+isted, and there (ere some studies that (ere
    talked a#out during the criminal trial, things a#out arious animals, sleep studies and stuf like that. $nd as (e
    asked him a#out these types of studies and (hether he had #een inoled in them, he said, H(ell, &1e #een
    doing them. &1e #een doing one for some tme on case studies that hae already e+isted. Been (orking on it
    for years, #ut & don1t hae the funding to ,nish it at the moment. &n fact, if you all, or any medical facility you1re
    aKliated (ith, are interested...H & said, H&1m not sure (e (ant to do that.H (e talked #ack and forth. &t turned
    out to #e a de minimis amount, and it could #e something 44 not sure it (as 44 could #e something that 44
    C'$rt" Could #e helpful.
    Mr" $t(#m" 3r harmful. $nd at the tme (e (ere e+ploring eerything, not the least of (hich, (ere (e
    going to hae counter4claims, all that kind of stuf. $nd (e said Hyeah, go ,nish it so (e can go ,nd out. "end
    out the thing.H (e (ere not inoled in it, had nothing to do (ith it. &n the end, it didn1t #ecome something
    releant to the testmony as an e+pert at all, #ut (e certainly didn1t kno( that going in, nor (as that the
    reason (hy (e funded it. )he reason (e did it (as #ecause of the dearth of the studies. &t could #e useful or it
    could #e harmful, and & didn1t (ant to ,nd us #eing in a place (here there (ould #e things out there #ad for
    us or good for us.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd, your honor, there (as no issue (ith them in<uiring a#out #ias, the study, funding. &n fact,
    &1m intending to address that a fair amount on direct. But to the e+tent there (as a conDict of interest in the
    'ournal pu#licaton standards #ecause not that there1s anything (rong (ith the artcle, not that the artcle1s
    data is (rong or the analysis is incorrect, #ut that Er. -arley 44
    C'$rt" )here is that concept, though, in funding research, right?
    M*" C#+#(" >ight.
    C'$rt" *hen you hae a, <uote, Hthe general concept of priate industry fundingH 44
    M*" C#+#(" >ight.
    C'$rt" 44 you kno(, Hresearch.H

    M*" C#+#(" $nd he fully disclosed at the end of the artcle that (e proided unrestricted funding.
    &mportantly, your honor, this is not a prospecte e+perimental study (here you say, & (ant to reach end point
    +, as, you kno(, & (ant to sho( that propofol addicton is common in certain populatons or (hateer. )here1s
    00 e+istng case ,les 44
    C'$rt" >ight. Case studies.
    M*" C#+#(" )here1s not a (ay to manipulate the data, een if you (anted to. $nd Er. -arley (ill say that there
    (as no conDict of interest #ecause this is not like a drug company funding a study to get ?E$ approal for a
    drug that it (ants to market and make money of of. *e1re not a repeat player in the pharmaceutcal industry.
    &t 'ust doesn1t 44 there is no conDict, and he (ill e+plain that. But to allo( e+tensie cross4e+aminaton as to
    (hether there (as a conDict, especially in light of the other testmony the 'ury has heard a#out, a diferent
    kind of conDict of interest, it1s 'ust going to re<uire calling additonal (itnesses and an undue consumpton of
    tme.
    C'$rt" 3kay.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )hank you, your honor. 3kay. ?irst of all, & don1t think the 44 let1s 'ust start (ith the conDict of
    interest in the study. & don1t think the cross4e+aminaton on that is going to take ery long. &f you think it1s going
    too long, you can stop us. But it1s ery clear, (hile he (as (orking as a consultant for $-G Iie in this litgaton,
    he (as (orking on a study that he then 44 that (as funded #y $-G Iie, that he then pu#lished, that contrary
    to (hat (as 'ust represented to the court, he test,ed e+pressly in his depositon that he relied on that study
    and informaton learned (hile doing that study for his opinions in this case. )hat is a fact, it1s in our #rief, &
    cited it, & <uoted it. & sho(ed it to you. )hat is a fact, 3K? 9o(, he is a mem#er of $.".$.%., the $merican
    "ociety of $ddicton %edicine. 2e1s on the #oard. 2e1s #een on it foreer. )hat is the pu#licaton that pu#lishes
    studies. &t1s a5ached to the #rief. &t1s called, "Addicton to propofol. A study of 22 treatment cases." no(, this
    (as pu#lished a@er he (as disclosed as a testfying e+pert. &t (as (orked on (hile he (as a consultng e+pert.
    2e clearly (as geCng paid #y $-G Iie for (ork on this litgaton (hile they (ere funding the study. 9o(, on
    the last page of the study that 44 and (e (ere surprised to see on the last page of the study, it says, H)he
    authors thank $-G Iie, IIC.H
    C'$rt" 3kay. 2e (as #eing honest a#out the source of his funding.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 2old on. Yes, 3K. Great. )he source of his funding. 2ere1s the pro#lem, your honor. )hat1s all (e1re
    going to ask him a#out. *hat the $.".$.%. !ournal re<uirement states is, on the front page of the study you1re
    supposed to say if you hae any conDict 44 &1m going to ,nish here, %s. Cahan, 'ust so you kno( 44 if there1s any
    conDicts, and you1re supposed to put the source of the funding on the front page, #ut most importantly is the
    conDicts. 9o(, a reader of this study is going to #e in the medical community, right? 3ne, they1re not going to
    kno( (hat $-G Iie is #ecause, as they said, they1re not a repeat player, they1re a concert promoter.
    C'$rt" *ell, they (ouldn1t kno( that if it (as on the front page or the last page.
    Mr" ,'&%e" *ell, gie me a second, and &1ll ,+ it. But here1s (hat he said= rather than put it aKrmately in the
    #o+ (here you1re supposed to put the conDict of interest, here1s (hat he (rote= Hthe author has no conDict of
    interest.H (hat you1re supposed to (rite is= H)he funder of this study is $-G Iie, IIC. & am also (orking as an
    e+pert (itness for $-G Iie, IIC, in a case a#out propofolH so the reader of this study 44 and that is clearly put
    out in the standards. "o that1s the point. $nd the study1s already in eidence, the standards hae #een put into
    eidence. &t clearly iolates the standards. & don1t (ant to do a mini trial on it. *e 'ust (ant to point out, Hhey,

    Er. -arley, (hy didn1t you say 44 (hy didn1t you disclose in this paper that you (ere (orking for $-G Iie in a
    litgaton?H that (ould #e like an e+pert doing a study for >.!. >eynolds to#acco company and not puCng on
    there Hoh, #y the (ay, &1m their e+pert (itness in a litgaton.H that is pertnent informaton. &t1s clear. &t1s not a
    trial (ithin a trial. &t goes to his honesty, his #ias. Goes to the efecteness of his study and that he relies on his
    study for his opinion.
    C'$rt" *hy didn1t the #oard point that out?
    Mr" #()*+" Because they didn1t kno(.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 2e1s on the #oard. & don1t kno(. 9o( & (ant to talk a#out consultng 44
    Mr" $t(#m" *e kno( the ans(er.
    C'$rt" Iet him ,nish.
    Mr" #()*+" Can & say something on this point?
    C'$rt" Yes.
    Mr" #()*+" )he standards for pu#licaton 44 many artcles are taken out (hen this happens. )he standards are
    in eidence of (hat he (as supposed to do. )he paper is in eidence. 2e clearly iolated the standard on
    disclosure in a pu#lished artcle of his conDict of interest. )here1s no <ueston a#out that. )hat certainly goes to
    the alidity of the study and his credi#ility as a (itness. 2e iolated the o(n standards for (hich this (as
    pu#lished. )he editors haen1t #een not,ed.
    Mr" ,'&%e" $nd, your honor, if it1s not a conDict, &1m sure he1ll tell us. 2e1s on the #oard of the $.".$.%., and he
    can tell us (hy it1s not a conDict, #ut (e should #e a#le to point this out. 3kay. 3n his consultng security 44 and
    this one really gets me ramped up 44 so they hired him as a consultant, right? )hey hired him in 44 the case (as
    ,led in "eptem#er of 0;.;. )hey hire him as a consultant in 0;.., right? )hey go all the (ay up, and they
    disclose e+perts in ?e#ruary of 0;./, 3K? $t some point in tme 44 and Er. -arley doesn1t remem#er e+actly
    (hen 44 and & put it all in the papers, and & put his <uotes. $nd he thought it (as strange. 2e didn1t understand
    it. 2e got a call from them 44 and #y the (ay, (e think it (as shortly #efore the disclosure (as due. )he e+pert
    disclosure (as due ?e#ruary 0;./. 2e got a call from them and they said, Hyou1re no longer a consultng
    e+pert, you1re no( going to #e a testfying e+pertH, 3K? %agic, right? $nd no( (hat they1re trying to do is cut
    us of from in<uiring a#out his t(o years of (ork. 9o(, %s. Cahan 'ust represented to the court there1s no
    there, like there1s nothing they1re trying to hide. &f that1s the case, & don1t see (hy (e can1t ask. )he case that
    they1re relying on is this natonal steel case. $nd (hat that case (as a#out, an e+pert (orked for a diferent
    client in a consultng capacity. Eid a report. )here (as a su#se<uent litgaton. )his e+pert (as hired #y a ne(
    client, and the plaintf in that case tried to get his report from the prior client. )he court in that case actually
    held, H(ell, &1m going to do an in4camera reie(. )he trial court should do an in4camera reie(.H #ut this is so
    #eyond that. )his is the same party in the same litgaton hired for purposes of litgaton, doing (ork for t(o
    years, that they1re no( trying to cut of (ith a magic phone call conertng him from consultng to testfying.
    9o( in eery trial, apparently you hire e+perts as consultng, then the day #efore disclosure, you say, Hyou1re
    magically no( testfying, and no( the other party can1t ask for anything for t(o years.H that is outrageous.
    )hey1re 'ust trying to game the system. $nd if there1s no there any(ay, (hy can1t & ask him a#out it? & asked
    him if there (as a report in his depo. )hey tried to cut him of #ut he #lurted out, H& don1t remem#er.H so there
    might not hae eer #een a prior report (e (ere trying to get. & 'ust (ant to ask him, Hhey, you (orked for

    them for t(o years on propofolH 44 oh, & should also add he test,ed in his depo 44 and & cited it and gae it to
    the court 44 that informaton he learned (hile consultng he relied on for his opinions.
    C'$rt" You mentoned that.
    Mr" ,'&%e" &t1s all fair game. "o 44 and also the study #efore. But he got #oth things= (hile doing the study he
    got info he relied on, (hile doing consultng (ork he learned info he relied on. "o this is all his opinion. &1m
    sorry &1m geCng so emotonal, #ut this is the most o#ious topic of cross4e+aminaton eer, #oth of these.
    Mr" $t(#m" "ince (e1re doing the mode of Hramped upH here, & (ould like to make one some(hat collateral,
    #ut & think it1s an important statement. )here is a period called discoery (here you get to do all kinds of stuf,
    (hich includes #ringing motons to compel and eerything else. $nd the reason you do that is so (hen you get
    to trial you can actually try the ma5er. )hroughout this case, plaintfs hae #een permi5ed to demand things
    during trial that should hae #een demanded, (ere they going to do it, during discoery. $nd this is #ut the
    latest e+ample. $nd & can go through the litany of (hat has occurred during this trial, doing additonal
    discoery 44
    C'$rt" *hat additonal discoery is he asking for?
    Mr" ,'&%e" &1m not asking for anything. & 'ust (ant to ask him a#out the stuf.
    Mr" $t(#m" &f he (anted to compel this material, if they (anted to go into this arena 44 this is something
    that (e did #ack and forth at the tme. $nd (e said, Has a de,nite ma5er, no, you1re actually looking at the
    case la( (rong, and let me e+plain to you the follo(ing,H (hich (e proided in march. $nd haing not heard a
    (ord since doing that untl (e get here no(, and & (ould implore the court that things not #e permi5ed to
    (ork this (ay. &f they (ere so ramped up on the issue, it (ould hae #een helpful if they (ould hae #een
    ramped up in march #efore (e get to trial. & (ill let her do her argument. But & 'ust (anted to say, throughout
    the course of this trial, eerything is #eing looked at ane( #y plaintfs. &t shouldn1t happen this (ay.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Your honor, so (e can cut this of, &1m not asking for any e4mails #et(een Er. -arley and %r.
    Putnam. %ay#e there1s some em#arrassing e4mail that %r. Putnam doesn1t (ant to come out. & don1t kno(.
    *hat they1re trying to do is preent me from asking a#out the consultng (ork. )hat1s (hat (e1re talking
    a#out here. )his isn1t a discoery moton. )his is cross4e+aminaton at trial. *e made the decision. $ll right.
    )hey told us there (as nothing there any(ay, so (e didn1t #other the court (ith a moton to compel
    documents, #ut & (ant to ask him a#out it.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd (e hae no o#'ecton to them asking a#out it to the same e+tent that it (as asked a#out at
    his depositon, (hich is, H(hat did you do as a consultng e+pert?H and at a high leel, he (ill say, H& got a
    phone callH 44 and this is going to come out on direct 44 H& got a phone call. )hey said, 1hey, (e understand you
    kno( a lot a#out propofol.1H he said, H(ell, to the e+tent any#ody kno(s anything, & do.H Hhey, can you put
    together some materials for us? *hateer there is out there.H Hsure, & can do that.H Hsend them along.H that1s
    the e+tent of the consultng relatonship. )here1s no report. )here1s no secrecy. )his idea of t(o years of (ork.
    2e Billed, & think, /; hours of a consultng e+pert prior to #eing hired as a testfying e+pert. 2is (ork on this
    study (as not in a consultng capacity for us. &t (asn1t in a testfying capacity for us. &t (as funded #y $-G Iie,
    #ut it (as 44 that1s his (ork as a scientst, and it (as not part of the consultng scope of employment. $nd as
    far as the study goes, they1re saying he should hae disclosed it on the front page. $nd (hen he comes in, he
    (ill e+plain he disclosed (hat he (as supposed to disclose. )here1s a form you ,ll out (hen you su#mit
    something for pu#licaton. )he informaton gets reforma5ed (hen it1s pu#lished. "o the fact that there1s not a
    #anner #lack4#o+ (arning on the front page of the study as pu#lished, doesn1t mean that he didn1t follo( the

    'ournal rules. 2e a#solutely follo(ed the 'ournal rules. $nd this smoking4gun footnote that says Hthere1s no
    conDict of interest,H that1s #ecause there1s no conDict of interest under the standards. 2e1s on the #oard of the
    $merican society of addicton medicine. 2e1s a fello( of the society. 2e kno(s (hat conDict of interest is in
    this sphere, and he assessed it and determined there (as no conDict of interest. $nd so 44
    C'$rt" &1m going to allo( the plaintfs to e+plore it. &f there1s no conDict, he can tell us there1s no conDict.
    M*" C#+#(" 3kay.
    C'$rt" $nything else?
    Mr" ,'&%e" >eally #rieDy, your honor. *e (ere gien some e+hi#its today they intend to use. & don1t (ant to
    (aste much tme. & (ant go through a couple of these. Eo you hae a set of these?
    M*" C#+#(" & #eliee it (as handed up.
    C'$rt" Yes. HPropofol for sleepH?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yeah. )hat1s the ,rst one.
    C'$rt" "ays H>o(eH on it?
    M*" C#+#(" )hat1s the #ig #oard (e #rought in last (eek that (e didn1t use (ith the doctor.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )he only pro#lem & hae (ith that one, & think it can #e ,+ed <uick, if you look at the #o5om ro(,
    on a couple of these, they hae like a dou#le leg that (ould indicate that there are things 44 that this happened
    t(ice.
    M*" C#+#(" 2uh4uh.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Because other ones (ere a single leg.
    C'$rt" You talking a#out the tny (ritng at the #o5om?
    Mr" ,'&%e" *here it says, like, H#o+ of propofol.H
    C'$rt" & don1t hae my glasses. & can1t 44
    Mr" $t(#m" *e hae the #ig one here, your honor.
    C'$rt" )hat1s all right. Iet me look at 44 3K. "o (hat a#out the t(o ro(s at the #o5om?
    Mr" ,'&%e" *here it says, HLuinn for propofol.H the t(o on the further4most right.
    C'$rt" *here it says, H>ogers trial transcriptH?
    Mr" ,'&%e" 9o, no. &1m sorry. )he purple ro(. )he years 44
    C'$rt" 3h, the purple ro(.

    Mr" ,'&%e" >ight.


    C'$rt" 3kay.
    Mr" ,'&%e" %y point is, those t(o indicate that those things happened t(ice, (hich is not (hat the eidence
    is. )hey should 'ust change it to one line do(n, #ecause all the other ones are one line do(n, and this
    happened here. &1m saying, it1s kind of misleading.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd, your honor, he (ill testfy 44
    C'$rt" $re you talking a#out 44 hold on. You1re talking a#out the triangle that goes do(n to 0;;:?
    Mr" ,'&%e" 9o, no.
    C'$rt" &1m confused.
    M*" C#+#(" You may not #e looking at (hat they1re looking at, your honor. &t1s this right here on the #oard
    they1re complaining a#out.
    Mr" ,'&%e" $nd this.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd (hat that is, it indicates (here a (itness test,ed something might hae happened in a 04
    year period.
    C'$rt" 3h, & see.
    M*" C#+#(" &t1s 'ust #racketed to sho( it1s some(here in that tme period. &t1s a single note, and the (itness
    (ill e+plain (hat the eidence actually is there, so & don1t think it1s going to #e confusing to the 'ury.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3kay. &f they straighten it out.
    C'$rt" &t happens t(ice, one (inds do(n 44
    Mr" ,'&%e" >ight.
    M*" C#+#(" Because those (itnesses (ere not sure of the e+act year. "o the testmony 44 so this (ill make
    clear it1s a single incident.
    Mr" ,'&%e" &f they clear that up, that1s ,ne.
    C'$rt" & think that1s ,ne.
    Mr" ,'&%e" $nd if (e go to 44 if you go to, your honor, no. G. &t1s kind of hard to see the num#ers. )he num#ers
    are on the lo(er right4hand corner of the #lue #o+.
    C'$rt" Yes.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3kay. Hpropofol steep dose response.H

    C'$rt" 9o. G. Yes.


    Mr" ,'&%e" 3kay. Your honor, so Er. -arley is an addicton medicine specialist, #ut he is not an anesthesiologist.
    "o he1s not <uali,ed to gie this. )his is sort of similar to (hen (e had Er. CBeisler, and (e (anted to talk
    a#out a sleep study. $nd the court said Er. CBeisler is a sleep e+pert, #ut he1s not anesthesiologist, so (e had to
    #ring Bro(n.
    C'$rt" You #rought Bro(n in.
    Mr" ,'&%e" "o (e had to #ring Bro(n in. "o the same thing (ith -arley. -arley is not <uali,ed on his o(n to
    talk a#out the actual physiological efects of propofol on the #ody, 'ust like Er. CBeisler (asn1t. "o & don1t think
    they can use this slide.
    M*" C#+#(" 2e1s amply <uali,ed to talk a#out it. 2e1s a propofol e+pert. 2e1s a neurologist #y training and a
    physician.
    C'$rt" Physician and 9eurologist?
    Mr" $t(#m" Yes.
    C'$rt" 3kay.
    M*" C#+#(" Yes. 2e understands and studies the methods of propofol. $nd he, in studying propofol and
    looking at the populatons that hae it 44 he understands the pharmacology, ,rst of all, and the
    pharmacokinetcs. & (ill lay a ery clear foundaton, and it1s clearly (ithin his scope of his e+pertse. $nd he
    talked a#out this at his depositon.
    Mr" #()*+" 2e1s neer gien propofol in his life. & mean, ho( can he #e <uali,ed 44
    C'$rt" *ell, CBeisler, (hat (as his specialty?
    M*" C#+#(" "Ieep. $nd he1s not a practcing 44 he1s not licensed in 9eurology at all.
    Mr" #()*+" 2e (as trained in 9eurology, 'ust like him. 2e (as trained, and he didn1t gie propofol 44
    M*" C#+#(" $nd he readily 44 sorry.
    Mr" #()*+" $nd he (asn1t allo(ed to talk a#out it. Bro(n is a practcing $nesthesiologist. Er. -arley has neer
    gien propofol in his life.
    M*" C#+#(" Er. 44
    Mr" #()*+" 2e doesn1t gie propofol. 9o(, he can read artcles.
    C'$rt" )he diference #et(een CBeisler is CBeisler didn1t kno( anything a#out propofol.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd he readily admi5ed that.

    Mr" #()*+" 9o.


    C'$rt" $nd you hae -arley here (ho 44
    Mr" #()*+" 2o( is he an e+pert 44 he1s a self4proclaimed e+pert on propofol.
    M*" C#+#(" $s is eery e+pert.
    C'$rt" )his area is not as (ell deeloped. )hat1s (hy.
    Mr" #()*+" 2e has neer administered the drug. 2o( can you #e an e+pert on the administraton of propofol
    if you1e neer administered it nor #een <uali,ed or cert,ed to do that? $nd he is not <uali,ed 44
    Mr" ,'&%e" )hat1s on patents. 2e has no idea (hat the efects are of patents on propofol #ecause he1s neer
    had a patent that had propofol.
    Mr" #()*+" -er in his career.
    M*" C#+#(" 9ot true at all, your honor. $nd this is something, if they (anted to moe in limine to e+clude
    him, this (as asked a#out at his depositon. 2e talked a#out his foundaton for this, and it is ample.
    Mr" #()*+" *hat has he gien propofol for?
    M*" C#+#(" -+cuse me, %r. Panish.
    Mr" #()*+" *ell, you 'ust said he1s gien it.
    M*" C#+#(" & did not. $nd if you (ould let me ,nish a sentence, you (ould hear (hat my point is. Your honor,
    and so he (as asked a#out this at his depositon. 2e test,ed a#out the foundaton. )his is something that he
    has studied and (orked on. 2e kno(s ho( it (orks. &f they (ant to cross him on it, that1s ,ne. &f they didn1t
    think he (as <uali,ed, they (ould hae moed to e+clude him, as (e did (ith a num#er of their e+perts, and
    they didn1t do that. $nd the reason it came up (ith Er. CBeisler 44
    C'$rt" 2e had no e+perience 44
    M*" C#+#(" $nd he hadn1t talked a#out it at his depositon, so (asn1t allo(ed to talk a#out it.
    C'$rt" &1m going to allo( it.
    M*" C#+#(" )hank you, your honor.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd, your honor, if & may, the concern (e hae, (e1re startng 44 ne( month, ne( season. &n light
    of something a#out (hat happened last (eek (ith %s. "trong, if the cat calls from the other side during our
    arguments and (hen (e1re talking could #e #rought do(n to a minimum, that (ould make it easier for us to
    hear the court and hear the (itnesses. "o & (ould ask the court to direct the partes to try to keep their
    comments a#out (hat other people are saying to a minimum (hile they1re saying it.
    C'$rt" 3kay. *ell 44

    Mr" #()*+" *ell, & interrupted her t(ice.


    Mr" $t(#m" 9ot the interruptng. )he cat calling. Hthat1s not (hat happened,H or Hthat1s not the eidence,H &
    (ould ask he not do that.
    C'$rt" 3kay.
    Mr" #()*+" &f (e1re going to talk a#out collateral ma5ers, as & approached the court today, %r. Putnam (as
    haing a discussion (ith t(o people on this side (ithin t(o feet of the 'urors, and & (ent up to him and said
    H%r. Putnam, it1s not appropriate.H and he told me he (as not talking a#out the case. $nd & heard him talking. &
    thought a#out it. 9ot appropriate to een #e talking around 'urors, (ithin t(o or three feet. &f (e1re going to
    get into all this stuf, & don1t come in here and (hine eery tme they do something that & don1t like, 3K? )hey
    seem to (ant to (hine a#out it. & don1t come in and do that. But these things are happening all the tme, 'ust
    haen1t #een #urdening the court. & (ill not say anything. & (ill (rite a note to %r. Boyle, as long as they do the
    same thing (hen (e1re <uestoning.
    C'$rt" $nd 'ust keep your oice do(n. You hae a oice that carries sometmes.
    Mr" #()*+" $ll right.
    C'$rt" !ust keep your oice do(n. $nd try to 44 if you hae a discussion, not near the 'urors.
    Mr" $t(#m" &t (asn1t. & moed (hen he asked me to. $nd it (asn1t t(o to three feet from them. & think, as
    the court reporter (ill note, & (as (elcoming her #ack from her acaton.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3n that, & (ill say they do eery day at the lunch #reak, they stand at the corner right there #y the
    'urors in the hall(ay. & kno( eronica has asked them to moe at least once in the past. & don1t think they
    should #e standing in the 'ury hall eery day. But that (as it. Back to this last point, there1s four slides that can
    all #e dealt (ith at once.
    C'$rt" "o there1s more on the slides?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yes. >eally <uick. %ay#e they can e+plain (hy. "tartng at slide 6 that says 44
    M*" C#+#(" 7.
    Mr" ,'&%e" ?irst one is 6.
    M*" C#+#(" 3kay.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3kay. Eo you see this one, your honor?
    C'$rt" "lide 6?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Yes. &t1s 6, 7, 8, :, and then it 'ust <uotes a #unch of trial or depo testmony.
    C'$rt" 3kay.

    Mr" ,'&%e" "o the <ueston is, it1s (arnings to %ichael !ackson, and & don1t understand ho( this ,ts in (ith
    (hat his opinion is. 2e test,ed at trial 44 & mean, sorry, at his depositon that he doesn1t #eliee %ichael
    !ackson (as 44 he doesn1t hae enough informaton to kno( if he (as addicted to propofol. 2e may hae had a
    physiological dependence and that ultmately (hat his opinion is (ith the ,nal slide is his prognosis is grae.
    "o & 'ust don1t understand (hat all these (arnings to %ichael !ackson hae to do (ith the ultmate opinion in
    the case. You kno( (hat & mean? *hat does it hae to do 44 and it1s 'ust argumentate.
    C'$rt" &t is a li5le #it argumentate, #ut, any(ay.
    M*" C#+#(" &t goes directly, your honor, to the life e+pectancy piece, and the (ay %r. !ackson (as using
    propofol. 2e (as (arned repeatedly, Hthis is not safe,H Hthis is dangerous.H and the record is clear, he (anted
    to pursue it year a@er year, tried to get it from a num#er of people. $nd so & think it ,ts into Er. -arley1s
    testmony a#out life e+pectancy. $nd een though he doesn1t say there1s enough eidence that rises to the
    leel (here he can #e, as a clinician, con,dent that there (as a#solutely an addicton, he does say there1s
    a#use here, and this is part of the a#use, and it1s a reckless sense of one1s o(n health, and it1s part of his
    opinion a#out %r. !ackson1s prognosis and life e+pectancy.
    Mr" #()*+" &t1s argumentate as (arnings of %ichael !ackson. & mean, if he (ants to say this is eidence
    supportng his opinion that he1s in grae risk, ,ne.
    M*" C#+#(" *ell, they (ere all (arnings, your honor. $ll the testmony1s in the record.
    Mr" ,'&%e" *arning1s a medical term. & mean, there1s (arnings on drugs, it1s the (hole 44 ?E$ gets inoled.
    )o say Er. Cherilyn Iee saying that1s not something you should use at home is a (arning, or if Ee##ie >o(e
    says, H*hat happens if you die?H &s that a (arning? &s that a medical (arning?
    C'$rt" "ounds like a (arning.
    Mr" $t(#m" &n terms of addicton, your honor, that1s precisely (hat it is. & think the 'ury understands (hat a
    (arning is. But in terms of addicton, and in terms of one1s propensity, and, therefore, (hat the life e+pectancy
    is, it goes to the issue of, you1re told not to do something, you1re (arned (hat the results (ill #e, and you do it
    any(ay. )he recklessness issue is precisely (hat he (as talking a#out, and they (ere (arnings. You heard
    (hat Cherilyn said. &t (as a (arning. You heard (hat Ee##ie >o(e said. "he said H9ot on my (atch, you1re not
    doing this.H )hat1s a (arning. $nd one of the terms, he1s not going to heed the (arnings #y #oth those they
    loe and the medical proiders, it1s going to the recklessness that forms his opinion.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 9ot something he test,ed to in his depositon.
    M*" C#+#(" &t is.
    C'$rt" &1ll oerrule the o#'ecton. You can use the slide and use the (ord H(arning.H
    M*" C#+#(" Your honor, can & step out a minute to adise the doctor a#out his rulings? )hank you.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hank you, your honor.
    J/RY ENTERS CO/RTROOM

    C'$rt" Good morning, eery#ody. *elcome #ack.


    T+e 0$r&" Good morning.
    C'$rt" Can you make your appearances?
    Mr" #()*+" Yes. Good morning. Brian Panish for the plaintfs.
    Mr" ,'&%e" Good morning. Kein Boyle for the plaintfs.
    M*" C#+#(" Good morning. Kathryn Cahan for the defendants.
    M*" ,)(#" !essica "te##ins Bina for the defendants.
    Mr" $t(#m" $nd %arin Putnam for the defendants.
    C'$rt" 3kay. & reie(ed (hat1s le@ of this trial, and it looks like (e1re geCng close to the end. %ay#e a (eek,
    (eek and a half, for the defense case, and then may#e half a (eek or so for the plaintfs. "o it1s geCng close.
    3f course, then (e hae closing arguments and then deli#eratons. But & (anted to let you kno( that that1s
    (here (e are. *e1re actually pre5y close. )here are other things (e hae to talk a#out, #ut let1s hold of on
    that for no(. &1ll let you kno( (hen (e1re ready. &t has to do (ith deli#eratons, and (e don1t need to talk
    a#out that <uite yet. $nd & (ant to read you a 'ury instructon #efore (e start. Hthroughout this trial, many
    (itnesses hae #ecome emotonal. $lthough it is a natural human reacton to console such a (itness,
    a5orneys may not #e permi5ed to approach the (itness on the stand due to certain rules of court. You are not
    to ie( the a5orneys (ith disfaor simply #ecause they fail to approach or console an emotonal (itness.H
    thank you. Eefendants, you may call your ne+t (itness.
    M*" C#+#(" )hank you. $t this tme, defendants call Er. Paul -arley. Er. Paul -arley, called as a (itness #y the
    defendants, (as s(orn in.
    C'$rt" )hank you. You may #egin.
    M*" C#+#(" )hank you, your honor.
    !IRECT E1AMINATION ,Y MS" CAHAN
    2" Good morning, Er. -arley.
    A" Good morning.
    2" *hat do you do for a liing?

    A" &1m an addicton medicine physician.


    2" $nd are you currently employed?
    A" & am.
    2" *here do you (ork?
    A" & (ork in $tlanta, Georgia, and & hae t(o positons= &1m the medical director of the Georgia physicians
    health program, and &1m in priate practce in a small ,rm that1s 'ust me. &t1s called -arley consultancy.
    2" Can you moe the microphone closer to you? )he #ackground is 44
    A" & (ill try. 3kay.
    2" )hank you. $nd (hat do you do, generally speaking, as an addicton medicine doctor?
    A" $ddicton medical physicians take care of the medical, the psychological, the psychiatric, the emotonal,
    the family aspects of indiiduals that sufer from addicte diseases of all sorts.
    2" 2o( long hae you #een (orking in the ,eld of addicton medicine?
    A" &1m in my /;th year no(.
    2" $nd you1re here to testfy today as an e+pert (itness?
    A" & am.
    2" & 'ust (ant to spend a couple minutes talking a#out your #ackground. *here did you a5end college?
    A" & (ent to college at a small school in 3regon called >eed college.
    2" *hen did you graduate?
    A" .:7F.
    2" *hat year 44 (hat degree did you receie?
    A" $ #achelor of arts in #iology.
    2" Eid you then go on to medical school?
    A" & did. & did a year of graduate4leel research and then (ent on to medical school.
    2" *here did you a5end medical school?
    A" Jniersity of Cincinnat in Cincinnat, 3hio.

    2" &s that your hometo(n?


    A" )hat is my hometo(n.
    2" $nd (hat year did you graduate?
    A" &n .:8;.
    2" $@er graduatng from medical school, did you do an internship?
    A" & did.
    2" *here?
    A" &n Portland, 3regon, at the good "amaritan hospital as a rotatng internal medicine internship.
    2" $nd did you then go on to a residency?
    A" & did. & did a residency in neurology.
    2" $nd (here (as that?
    A" $t the uniersity of 3regon health sciences center in Portland, 3regon.
    2" *hen did you ,nish that residency?
    A" 18F.
    2" $nd a@er you completed your residency, did you do any further training in your ,eld?
    A" & did. $t the tme & entered the ,eld, there (as really no formaliBed fello(ship program, residency training
    in addicton medicine, so you had to co##le together things. & (as in superision (ith analysts for si+ years in
    terms of my therapy. & hae seeral degrees in psychotherapy and from (hat1s called e+periental
    psychotherapies. $nd & had superision in the ,eld from my mentors, and that (as really all that (as aaila#le
    at the tme in that tme.
    2" $nd (hat year did you #egin taking care 44 you said /; years in addicton medicine, so you #egan taking
    care of patents (ith addicton disorders in .:8/?
    A" .:8F.
    2" 1F? 3kay. $nd so that (as (hen you ,nished your residency, you started doing that (ork?
    A" >ight.
    2" *here are you currently licensed to practce medicine?
    A" Currently licensed 44 & hae an acte license in Georgia, and & hae an inacte license, meaning & can1t
    practce, #ut &1e got a 44 it1s 'ust kind of like a holding in 3regon stll.

    2" 3kay.
    A" 2ae thoughts a#out returning home there sometme.
    2" $nd is 44 (hy is your license in 3regon inacte?
    A" *hen you leae a state for a period of tme, if you hae a lo( pro#a#ility of returning, you inactate your
    license, <uite frankly, for ,nancial reasons. $n acte license is more e+pensie.
    2" &s there presently a #oard cert,caton for addicton medicine?
    A" )here is.
    2" $nd is it an $merican #oard of medical specialty #oard or some other #oard?
    A" &t1s currently the $merican #oard of addicton medicine (ho underscores that specialty. $nd much like any
    ,eld, (hen it1s a ne( ,eld coming along, the $merican #oard of medical e+aminers doesn1t a#sor# you into
    their fold, so to speak, untl there1s suKcient tme and training and e+perience and that sort of thing. %uch like
    emergency medicine. *here emergency medicine (as .; or .0 years ago, (here there (as emergency
    medical physicians, #ut there (as no a.#.m.e. Cert,caton. But there is a #oard, and &1m part of that
    organiBaton, that1s helping moe addicton medicine for(ard so there (ill #e a fully4understood #oard. &t1s the
    only #oard in addicton medicine, #asically, right no(.
    2" $nd are you cert,ed under that #oard?
    A" & am. & helped design the test and helped #ring that for(ard.
    2" $re you currently #oard cert,ed in any other specialtes?
    A" & am not.
    2" $@er you completed your training, (hat did you do ne+t for (ork?
    A" *ell, actually, & (as (orking (hile & (as in that addicton medicine training. & started of at a small
    addicton facility in Georgia and (orked there for seeral years. )hat (as an eatng4disorder program as (ell as
    a su#stance4a#use program. Eid that for three years. $nd then & (ent on to #e the medical director of a small
    program in $tlanta called Park(ood 2ospital, (hich & did for seeral years. & then moed to a program for .G
    years called >idgeie( &nsttute in $tlanta. )hat program has 44 it1s a large comple+, mult4tered program, that &
    (as medical director for .G years. $nd then a@er that, & moed to a program called )al#o5 >ecoery Campus,
    (here & (as a medical director for ,e years. $nd #oth those last t(o programs specialiBed in treatment of
    addicted health care professionals and airline pilots.
    2" "o let me 'ust make sure & got all the pieces of that.
    A" &t1s a lot.
    2" "o you 44 and in each of those three roles, you took care of patents (ith addicton disorders?

    A" ?ull tme.


    2" $nd you (ere also medical director at >idgeie( and )al#o5?
    A" )hat1s correct.
    2" $nd (hat is a medical director?
    A" %edical director, & superise #asically 44 it1s like the head of the clinical serices at an addicton facility. &
    superised other physicians, & (ould help clinicians understand ho( to (ork #est (ith addicted patents. &
    proided therapy skills, deto+i,caton skills, et cetera.
    2" $nd & think you said at >idgeie(, you focused 44 sort of had a su#4focus in treatng impaired professionals?
    A" Yeah. )hat1s 44 (e like the term Haddicted health care professionalsH #e5er in terms of 44
    2" 3kay.
    A" Yeah. But >idgeie( (as one of those programs, as (as the other program that & (orked at later.
    2" $t )al#o5?
    A" $t )al#o5, yes.
    2" "o you had sort of a focus on treatng health care proiders, physicians, nurses, people in the health care
    ,eld (ho sufered from addicton?
    A" )hat1s correct.
    2" $nd at some point did you leae )al#o5 to go to your current positon as medical director of the Georgia
    professionals health program?
    A" >ight. -ery state, (ith a couple of e+ceptons 44 actually, & think California is one of them right no(, one of
    the e+ceptons 44 has a program that (orks in concert (ith the medical #oard to diert physicians that hae
    addicte disorders and superise them, make sure they hae a high <uality of care, high4<uality programs,
    make sure they1re monitored for years to make sure they1re safe to return to practce so they (ould create no
    pu#lic risk of harm. $nd (e helped #ring that legislaton for(ard in Georgia. $nd then, ,nally, once it came to
    fruiton, (e looked around, the people that (ere promotng it, and someone said, H(ho is going to run this
    thing?H and someone said, H(ell, you1re going to.H and so that1s (hat & did.
    2" "o if a physician in Georgia has an addicton pro#lem, and it1s recogniBed, he or she (ill go get channeled
    through the program (here you currently (ork?
    A" )hat1s correct.
    C'$rt" Eoes that include alcohol addicton?
    A" yes, it does. $lcohol is the primary su#stance that eeryone is addicted to, including physicians and
    a5orneys.

    M*" C#+#(" $ppro+imately ho( many patents hae you seen and treated for addicton in the course of your
    /; years, if you can estmate?
    A" Personally hae #een the personal a5ending physician on pro#a#ly, & (ould guess, a thousand physicians.
    $nd 44 a thousand patents. &1m sorry. 9ot all physicians. Because that1s 44 although & did that. & took care of all
    types of indiiduals. $nd then in the facilites & superised the care for 44 my guess, it (ould #e north of G,;;;
    patents.
    2" 3kay. "o fair to say, you1e a lot of e+perience (ith people (ith addictons from all (alks of life, although
    you hae a special focus on health care proiders?
    A" >ight. &n all of those facilites, in those last t(o facilites, all types of patents can come, #ut (e (ould hae
    kind of specialty programming for physicians. $nd (e (ould also 44 and 44 #ut & took care of house(ies and
    people that (orked in all types of ,elds, and young adults, and that sort of thing as (ell. Yeah.
    2" -er take care of any 44 (ithout telling me anything speci,c, hae you eer taken care of any irtually
    (ealthy indiiduals?
    A" Yes, & hae.
    2" $ny famous people?
    A" Yes. Luite a fe( 44 #oth of those facilites, #ecause (hen you get kno(n as a place doctors go, then the
    doctors tend to refer their complicated cases to us. "o (e (ere (hat you (ould call a tertary care facility and
    o@en (ould get people in the music or the 44 primarily music industry, #ut also some in the ,lm industry and
    politcs, and that sort of thing.
    2" "o outside side of your /; years of treatng patents, hae you also pu#lished scholarly (ork in the ,eld of
    addicton?
    A" & hae. &1m one of the authors of the $merican society of addicton medicine, that1s the parent
    organiBaton, te+t#ook, and & hae contri#uted to seeral other pu#licatons that deal (ith types 44 (hat (e call
    treatment typology, descri#ing the diferent types of treatment that are gien. $nd &1e pu#lished seeral
    papers on understanding addicton and physicians. & also do a fair amount of training in that regard.
    2" $nd the training, does that include presentatons to health care proiders and the general pu#lic?
    A" $ll of the a#oe. 3ne of the things & found that & like to do is to speak and to train. $nd so & tend to
    pont,cate more than & should.
    2" $re you a#le to estmate a#out ho( many presentatons you1e gien oer the years?
    A" G;, & (ould guess.
    2" $nd hae you also spoken in the media a#out addicton?
    A" & hae. &1e had some interestng e+periences in that regard. & (as consulted and interie(ed on t(o
    specials called 44 they (ere called Hturning point.H they (ere prime tme, hour4long specials on addicton. 3ne

    (as a#out the epidemic of heroin in high schools, one (as a#out su#stance a#use and ho( it1s changing its
    character in the united states. )hat (as in the 1:;s. & also (as a consultant to 44 (hich (as actually a (onderful
    e+perience 44 to Bill %oyers in a ,e4part series called Hclose to home,H (here he looked at the politcs and
    science of addicton treatment. $nd (e (ere 44 our (ork (as kind of underscored in the treatment end, (hich
    (as a (onderful e+perience (orking (ith that cre(.
    2" $nd hae you also #een a guest on the 3prah *infrey sho(?
    A" Yeah, & hae. &1e #een on the 3prah *infrey sho( t(ice, and that (as an interestng e+perience.
    2" $nd in other media enues, other programs of that nature?
    A" Yes.
    2" $nd & think you mentoned you (ere a mem#er of the $merican society of addicton medicine. 2o( long 44
    are you a fello(, also?
    A" &1m a fello(, (hich #asically means (hen you get old there, they gie you this cert,caton saying Hyou1e
    #een hanging around long enough, let1s gie you a fello(ship.H
    2" $nd did you found the Georgia chapter of the $merican society of addicton medicine?
    A" & did. $nd &1e #een on the #oard of a.s.a.m. .0 years. $nd (hen & (as part of that organiBaton, it (as 'ust
    a Dedgling organiBaton. 9o( it1s really the primary oice of medicine concerning addicton issues. "o it1s #een
    a (onderful e+perience to (atch that gro( oer the years.
    2" Er. -arley, in the course of your (ork taking care of health care professionals (ith addicton issues, did you
    come to learn anything a#out propofol and propofol addicton?
    A" & did. $nd that (as 44 & did. )hat (as primarily #ecause & (as taking care of a lot of health care
    professionals, and health care professionals are oer(helmingly the highest percentage of people that get into
    trou#le (ith propofol and propofol addicton.
    2" &s propofol 44 & understand that health care professionals are the ones that tend to hae propofol addicton,
    #ut is propofol addicton common among health care professionals as an addicton disorder?
    A" &t1s not. 3ur (ork sho(s that only 44 that een in health care professionals, appro+imately only ..6 percent
    of them hae any e+perience or addicton to propofol. "o it1s unusual een in the health care professions.
    2" $nd in your e+perience taking care of or #eing inoled (ith the care of thousands of patents, a#out ho(
    many hae you seen that hae sufered from propofol addicton?
    A" *e1e seen north of 0G, 06 cases. )he 44 and that formed the #asis of a study that (e did.
    2" $nd that1s total oer /; years?
    A" )hat1s total oer /; years. $lthough & do (ant to say that pro#a#ly there (ere tmes (hen, frankly, & missed
    it, #ecause pro#a#ly there (ere people using the drug and not talking a#out it (hile they (ere in treatment
    #ecause they (ere using other drugs.

    2" Eid most of the patents that you see (ho hae propofol addicton hae other drugs of a#use as (ell?
    A" $#solutely. Commonly alcohol, commonly opioids, commonly #enBodiaBepine drugs you1e #een hearing
    a#out in this trial. "o rarely is anyone strictly using propofol. $ctually, &1e had may#e t(o cases, or, geeB,
    pro#a#ly t(o or three cases 44 & don1t kno( the e+act num#er 44 that are propofol alone.
    2" 2ae you personally eer had a case of someone a#using propofol (ho (as not a health care proider?
    A" & hae not personally had a case that (as not a health care proider.
    2" &s there a lot of literature, or at least scholarly literature, a#out propofol and the addictons?
    A" )here1s not. )here1s a ery scant #ody of literature, especially a#out the addicton itself, its treatment,
    something a#out the types of people that get it, ho( you #est help them. )hat literature is remarka#ly sparse.
    2" *hy is that?
    A" & think primarily it1s a num#ers game, the fact that there1s so fe( cases of it. $nd also there1s a tendency,
    een if you1re a health care proider, to not talk a#out the propofol that you1re using, if you1re also using a drug
    like fentanyl or alcohol or something like that. & think there1s also a tendency not to talk a#out it. $s & said
    earlier, there1s also a #ias. & think patents dri@ing in and out of my treatment perhaps .; or .0 years ago, & did
    an intake interie(, and & didn1t speci,cally ask the <ueston= Hdid you eer a#use or use propofolH pro#a#ly
    untl the last .G years or so. -arly on, it (ould hae gone right oer my head. "o it1s also the fact that (e really
    (eren1t looking for it.
    2" &s there a consensus in the ,eld of addicton medicine that propofol is an addicte drug?
    A" )here is a consensus, yes.
    2" $nd is it that propofol is an addicte drug?
    A" Yes. "orry a#out that.
    2" "orry. &t1s one of those la(yer <uestons.
    A" >ight. 3kay.
    2" $nd you mentoned a couple minutes ago that you pu#lished a study a#out propofol addicton.
    A" & did.
    2" Can you 'ust tell us a li5le #it a#out that?
    A" *ell, (hat (e did (as (e 44 this (as from our cases at the last place & (orked, the place called the )al#o5
    recoery campus. &t (as one of those things, the other ,e physicians (ho (orked there, (e1d get a case in,
    and (e1d scratch our heads and say, Hho( many of these hae you seen?H and so (hen & ,rst got there, (e
    (ould (rite do(n case num#ers and kind of had a curiosity a#out it. $nd (e found that (hen (e (ere
    looking, surprise, surprise, (e started ,nding more. $nd then at some point, one of the other physicians said

    to me, Hyou need to pu#lish on that.H and, you kno(, & guess & follo( instructons. $nd so at that point (e
    #egan to think a#out looking seriously at the data and ,guring out (hether (e could 44 you kno(, ho( you
    learn in medicine is you get a #unch of cases, and you go #ack and look at them retrospectely and say, H(hat
    did (e see there?H and that1s really the ,rst thing you do in research, is you say H(hat does it look like?H H(hat
    are the presentatons?H H(hat do (e kno( a#out those types of people?H that sort of thing.
    2" "o ultmately you put together a paper for pu#licaton. *as that paper pu#lished?
    A" &t (as. &t (as pu#lished in the journal of addicton medicine, (hich is one of the #e5er 'ournals, and & (as
    pleased to hae it do so.
    2" $nd (as that a 44 ho( did you get funding for the (ork that (as necessary to pu#lish that paper?
    A" Jp untl 44 as & said, earlier in the days, (e (ere 'ust kind of keeping track of the cases. $nd & (as a ?ull4
    tme clinician seeing patents all day long, superising staf, didn1t really hae the tme to deote to that. $nd at
    some point, during the 44 (hen & (as (orking (ith 31%eleny M %yers, the <ueston came up. & think & (as
    speaking (ith %r. Putnam, and he said, H(ell, (hat do (e kno( a#out this?H and & said, H(ell, (e don1t kno(
    much.H and he said, H(ell, ho( come?H and & said, H(ell, it1s 'ust not really (ell kno(n. &1e go5en a fe(
    things.H and he said, H(ell, (ould it help if you kne( more?H and & said, Hyes.H and he said, H(ell, let us see
    (hat (e can do to help you.H
    2" $nd did there come a tme (hen $-G Iie agreed to gie you the funding to ,nish the study?
    A" &t did.
    2" Before that, this (asn1t the only thing you spoke to %r. Putnam a#out, right?
    A" 3h, no. )his (as not the ,rst thing, no.
    2" "o (hen did (e ,rst reach out to you to talk a#out propofol?
    A" &t (as in appro+imately 0;.;, if my dates are right on that. 3r (as it 0;..? &t (as 0;... )hat1s right. &t (as
    0;... & receied a call from %r. Putnam, and he said, you kno(, H(e need some help in understanding propofol
    addicton.H
    2" $nd it (as at or around that tme in early 0;..? Eoes that sound right?
    A" )hat sounds right.
    2" Eid 44 (ere you retained to help us learn a#out propofol?
    A" )hat1s correct. )hat (as 44 the inital call (as, #ecause nothing is kno(n a#out it, you kno(, %r. Putnam
    said, H(ell, (hat do you kno( a#out it?H and & said, H(ell, & don1t kno( much. & treated more patents than
    anyone else.H and he said, H(ell, 3K.H so at that point (e (ent #ack and reie(ed the literature, and they
    retained me as a consultant to reie( the literature, to take a look at the neurochemistry, ho( it (orks (ith
    other drugs in the neurochemistry seCng to understand (hat (ere the other cases 44 (as there any literature
    on (hat the cases looked like, (hat (as the lethality of the drug, ho( to+ic (as the drug. )hat sort of thing.
    $nd & (as doing that kind of literature search for pro#a#ly si+ months, & (ould guess, of and on. *hen a
    <ueston (ould come up, (e1d go #ack and forth (ith it.

    2" $nd a#out ho( much tme oer that si+ months, ho( many hours do you think you spent in doing that
    kind of (ork?
    A" %y guess is a#out /; hours of, again, li#rary research, siCng the li#rary, reading 'ournals. $ctually e4
    mailing colleagues, #ecause some of these things (ere pu#lished in 'ournals in Germany and Korea, and (e
    had to get the actual artcles.
    2" $nd did any of (hat you learned in that capacity form the #asis for something you1re going to #e ofering
    an opinion on here in trial today?
    A" 3nly 44 the only thing & learned at that point (as, & learned more a#out the neurochemistry from that (ork.
    & learned more a#out the science of propofol. &1m a curious kind of guy, and it really helped me understand that
    piece. "o in terms of my kno(ledge #ase, it e+panded my kno(ledge #ase.
    2" But nothing speci,c that you learned that (as part of the #asis for an opinion you1re ofering here?
    A" 9o.
    2" $nd then at some point there (as another conersaton (ith %r. Putnam (here you said, you kno(, H&1m
    (orking on this research, and & need someH 44 you kno(, H& don1t hae the resources right no( to pu#lish itH, is
    that fair?
    A" Yeah. &t (as a@er 44 say, it (as early 0;... &t (as pro#a#ly 44 it (as actually <uite a (ays do(n the road.
    2" "ummer of 0;.0 sound a#out right?
    A" )hat sounds a#out right.
    2" $nd do you remem#er ho( much you told $-G Iie you (ould need to get the staf and resources
    necessary to ,nish the study?
    A" >ight. *hat they asked (as, you kno(, H(hat (ould it take?H so & put together a team of folks, my
    coauthor, Er. )orin ?iner, a research assistant, statstcian, called up a couple editors. &1m not partcularly an
    academic (riter, so & had to hire some#ody to type up the form, especially the statstcian. *e put together the
    num#ers and sent a proposal of.
    2" $nd the dollar amount, do you kno( ho( much that totaled?
    A" )otal for all of us for a#out half a year1s (ork (as NG/,;;;.
    2" $nd $-G Iie proided that money?
    A" )hat is correct.
    2" $nd did $-G Iie tell you anything a#out ho( they (anted the study to come out?
    A" 9o.

    2" Eid you agree to gie $-G Iie any informaton a#out your (ork as you (ere doing it?
    A" 9o.
    2" &n fact, did you tell $-G Iie that you (ouldn1t do that to us?
    A" Yeah, a#solutely. & mean, that (as part of the decision. $nd, again, this is an academic paper, you kno(. &t1s
    typifying propofol, and ho( it looks, and (hat it1s like. )hat sort of thing.
    2" $nd so for that paper, you looked at e+istng case ,les, crunched num#ers, analyBed it, and (rote up
    A" >eport on your ,ndings?
    A" Yeah. )he #ulk 44
    2" &1m sorry. & don1t mean to minimiBe the amount of (ork that1s inoled, it1s 'ust outside of my e+pertse.
    A" )hat1s ,ne. )hat1s not a pro#lem. )he #ulk of the tme really (as spent going #ack in the archies of the
    past 0; years in the treatment center and digging out charts and reading charts and all of us siCng do(n in the
    #o(els of this place in the dark 44 it (as 44 you kno(, you 'ust read charts, and the charts are thick and only so
    much that1s releant. "o (e spent tme reading all these charts and trying to ,nd other cases, (hich (e
    actually did turn up a fe( more cases. Compiled all that informaton. $nd this (as patents that had already
    #een treated, their outcomes had already #een determined years #efore. $nd (e decided (e (ere going to go
    #ack for 0; years so (e could get an idea of not only, is this a common illness, so (e could get enough cases,
    #ut has the incidence of the propofol addicton increased in health care professionals?
    2" "o once $-G Iie agreed to proide funding, you didn1t discuss the (ork that you (ere doing?
    A" 9o.
    2" You didn1t sho( 44 did you sho( any dra@s of your paper to $-G Iie 44
    A" 9o.
    2" 44 or the la(yers or discuss it (ith us at all?
    A" )he only discussion (as, Hho(1s it going?H and & 44 & (ould say some sort of grum#ling, (hining, Hthis is
    takingH 44 no. )hat1s not true. &t (as, Hho(1s it going?H Hit1s going ,ne.H
    2" $nd that (as HgoingH in terms of tming, not content?
    A" )iming. Yeah. Yeah.
    2" $nd did there come a tme (hen you completed a dra@ of the paper and sent it of to the 'ournal of
    addicton medicine?
    A" >ight. *e completed our ,rst dra@ 3cto#er of 44 some(here in 3cto#er of 0;.0.
    2" 3kay. $nd (as there then some #ack4and4forth process to ,naliBe it for pu#licaton?

    A" $#solutely. *hen you send something in to a peer4reie( 'ournal, you usually get it #ack, and the author 44
    they get paid to look at it critcally. $nd so (e had to hae three full re(rites of the artcle. $nd, actually, it
    improed the artcle dramatcally in doing that in its clarity.
    2" $nd, again, did you discuss (ith us or the defendants anything a#out (hat (as in the artcle, or the
    reisions you (ere making, or sho( us anything that you (ere (orking on 44
    A" 9o.
    2" 44 (hile you (ere doing it?
    A" 9o.
    2" $nd at some point 44 you said there (ere three full dra@s that you (ent through.
    A" >ight.
    2" *as it accepted ,nally for pu#licaton at some point?
    A" Yes. -arly !anuary of 0;./ it (as accepted for pu#licaton.
    2" $nd it (as su#mi5ed originally #ack in 3cto#er?
    A" Yes.
    2" $nd in that same #eginning of 0;./ tme period, did (e come #ack to you again and say, you kno(, H(e1d
    #e interested in haing you come testfy as an e+pert in this caseH?
    A" You did.
    2" $nd (as that #ecause of 44 (ell, you may not kno( this. Iet me ask a #e5er <ueston. $t the tme that (e
    asked you to #e a testfying e+pert (itness, had (e seen the pu#licaton that (as pu#lished?
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3#'ecton. 9o foundaton.
    C'$rt" 3erruled.
    M*" C#+#(" Eid you send it to us?
    C'$rt" You may ans(er.
    A" 3K. &1m sorry. & didn1t hear. 9o, (e didn1t send it to you.
    M*" C#+#(" 3kay. $nd it didn1t get pu#lished untl march of 0;./?
    A" )hat1s correct.

    2" But (e came to you and said, H(e1d like to hae you testfy as an e+pert (itness.H did (e hae you sign any
    paper(ork at that point?
    A" Yes. )here (as 44 &1m sorry. & don1t kno( the e+act 44 there (as some sort of a thing that allo(s
    con,dentality of documents. &1m sorry & don1t kno( (hat you guys call it. But you had me sign that and said,
    H#y the (ay, no( you1re an e+pert (itness.H and & 44 H3K.H
    2" $nd the thing that (e had you sign, did (e hae you sign that so (e could send you materials from this
    case?
    A" Yeah. &1m sorry. & (asn1t clear a#out that. )hat1s e+actly (hy that (as signed.
    C'$rt" *hen did that occur?
    M*" C#+#(" !anuary 0;./.
    A" yeah. )he end of !anuary.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd (as that the ,rst tme you (ere proided any medical records or detailed informaton a#out
    the eidence in this case?
    A" Yes. )hat (as the ,rst tme & 44 & kne( hardly anything a#out the case #esides (hat & (ould read in the
    media occasionally.
    2" $nd did you agree to 44 you agreed to #e a testfying (itness for us?
    A" & did.
    2" $nd at (hat rate did you 44 (hat rate schedule did you set?
    A" ?or record reie(, & think it (as /7G an hour, for depositon, it (as G;;, and to #e here today, it1s 8G; an
    hour.
    2" $nd that /7G an hour, is that the same rate you charged for the consultng (ork you did #ack in 0;..?
    A" )hat1s correct.
    2" 3kay. $nd a#out 44 since you1e #een asked to #e a testfying e+pert (itness, a#out ho( many hours hae
    you (orked on this case?
    A" )here1s an enormous num#er of charts. Pro#a#ly a#out 44 & (ould guess 8G to :; hours, & (ould guess.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3#'ect, your honor, if it1s calling for speculaton if he1s guessing, or if that1s his real testmony.
    C'$rt" & think he said, Ha#out.H that1s an estmate. 3erruled.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 2e said he (ould guess.
    M*" C#+#(" $re you a#le to estmate?

    A" &1m a#le to estmate 8G to :; hours.


    2" )hank you, Er. -arley. "o you (ere paid for your (ork as a consultng e+pert, $-G Iie agreed to fund the
    study that you (ere (orking on, and you1e also #een paid for your tme as a testfying e+pert?
    A" )hat1s correct.
    2" $nd do you #eliee that you1re a#le to ofer independent opinions here today, een though $-G Iie
    proided study 44 funding for the study and is paying you for your tme?
    A" $#solutely.
    2" $nd (hy is that?
    A" *ell, & mean, for many reasons. 3ne of the things you learn in medicine is, you get paid for your serices,
    and yet you hae to 44 you also hae to render a 'udgment a#out patents, and you don1t alter the 44 that sort of
    thing happens all the tme. "econdly, the research study (as 44 the data (as the data, you kno(. )his is past
    patent data. &t1s 'ust 44 all (e did (as compile it and pu#lish it. $nd although it (as satsfying to hae the
    artcle there, and all it did (as talk a#out the treatment of propofol dependence and a#out ho( to diagnose it,
    to some degree.
    2" "o 'ust to #e clear, you didn1t sho( us the ,nal pu#lished 44 to4#e4pu#lished paper untl a@er (e had hired
    you as an e+pert 44 testfying e+pert (itness?
    A" )hat1s correct. &n fact, (hen you su#mit it to the referee 'ournal, you hae an agreement that stays
    #et(een you, Er. ?iner and myself, those are the t(o authors, and the 'ournal untl they #less it.
    2" "o (e 44 you don1t leak the ,nal thing to anyone #efore it1s pu#lished, is that the idea?
    A" Yeah. &f & leaked it, & can1t imagine anyone interested in reading it, aside from us geeky people.
    2" $nd you didn1t sho( us any dra@s in process or anything like that? You didn1t su#mit it to us #efore you
    su#mi5ed it for pu#licaton?
    A" 9o.
    2" &1m sorry. ?or the record, if you could speak up.
    A" &1m sorry. 9o.
    2" 3kay. "o let1s talk a#out the materials you reie(ed (hen you (ere 44 started doing your (ork to prepare
    to ofer opinions here in court 44
    A" 3kay.
    2" 44 #ack earlier this year. Eid any#ody tell you that they (anted you to come (ith any partcular
    conclusions?

    A" 9o.
    2" Eid (e talk a#out, generally speaking, (hat areas (e (anted you to ofer opinions in?
    A" Yes, (e did.
    2" 3kay. *hat are those areas, generally speaking?
    A" Generally speaking, the issues (ere a#out (hether there (as addicton present of any su#stances in
    %ichael !ackson1s history, my diagnostc impression of (hether that (as present. )he num#er t(o (as, if so,
    (hich drugs? )he num#er three (as, you kno(, (hy do you hae that opinion? $nd then the last one (as,
    ho( (ould this afect %ichael !ackson1s health and life going for(ard #ased upon the earlier conclusions?
    2" 3kay. $nd (e1ll talk through each of those today. ?irst & (ant to 'ust coer (hat you looked at. "o generally
    speaking, (hat types of materials did you reie( in order to reach your conclusions in this case?
    A" & reie(ed medical records, although they (ere sporadic and scant. & mean, all the medical records came,
    #ut stll, oer the length of tme, they (ere surprisingly short, & reie(ed testmony of many of the indiiduals
    that had #een deposed preiously to my #eing retained, #oth physicians, people like %s. >o(e, & reie(ed
    some hospital records, "anta YneB hospital1s records, & reie(ed interie(s or depositons (ith family. )hat sort
    of thing.
    2" 3kay. $nd at some point you also reie(ed some trial testmony a@er this trial had started?
    A" Yeah. $@er the trial 44 &1m sorry. & thought you (ere talking a#out early on. Yeah.
    2" $nd you said the medical records (ere scant. Eo you kno( (hether you (ere proided only a su#set of
    the medical records that (ere aaila#le in this case or if there (ere only certain medical records aaila#le
    coering certain tme periods?
    A" >ight.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3#'ecton. 9o foundaton.
    C'$rt" "ustained.
    M*" C#+#(" Eid you ask to see all the medical records that (ere aaila#le in the case?
    A" & did.
    2" $nd do you hae any reason to #eliee that those (ere not proided to you?
    A" & do not.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 9o foundaton.
    C'$rt" 3erruled.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd did you 44 (as there an inital set of materials proided to you?

    A" Yes, #ut in the olumes, & couldn1t tell you (hat (as in the inital and (hat (asn1t.
    2" )hat1s 3K. &1m not going to 44 it1s not a test on that. But then did you get further materials at some later
    point in tme?
    A" Yes. )hey 'ust kept on coming.
    2" $nd are you relying on some of the materials you1e reie(ed for opinions that you1re ofering here today?
    A" & do. & did.
    2" $nd do you hae a list up there (ith you of the materials 44
    A" & do.
    2" 44 that are most pertnent to your opinions?
    A" & do. "ome(here in this stack.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd if counsel (ould like, & can share a copy of that as (ell.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )hank you.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd can you 'ust read for us the medical records 44 you don1t hae to read the e+hi#it num#ers,
    #ut 'ust the names of the medical records that you1re principally relying on for your testmony here today?
    A" & (ill. )he Ba+ley Producton, ?arshchian Producton, ?orensic Consultants %edical Group Producton,
    ?ournier Producton, Gordon Producton, Klein records, Koplin Producton, Ietelier Producton, %etBger
    Producton, %urray medical records, %urray I$PE &nterie(, 9utrimed 2ealthcare Producton, 3da#ashian
    Producton, the PalluckO)adrissi Producton, )he "anta Bar#ara County "herif1s 3Kce Producton, "anta YneB
    Aalley College 2ospital Producton, "asaki Producton, "asaki summary of treatments, "lait Producton, Aan
    Aalin Producton, Coroner1s report and to+icology report.
    2" $nd are there 44 is there depositon testmony that you reie(ed that1s also partcularly pertnent to the
    opinions you1re ofering? $nd for the depositons, to the e+tent that they1e #een 44 e+cerpts of them hae
    #een played at ideos in trial, hae you also reie(ed those depositons?
    A" & hae.
    2" Can (e list the depositons, and the 'ury (ill remem#er the ones they1e seen so (e don1t hae to do it
    t(ice?
    A" 3kay. $nd &1m 'ust going to read 44
    2" )he (itness list?
    A" 44 the (itness list, & guess, is that right? Er. Eaid $dams, -llen Brunn, Er. $limorad ?arshchian, Er. "tuart
    ?inkelstein, Eaid ?ournier, %aritBa "hulman Glassman, Er. "tephen Gordon, Prince !ackson, >andy !ackson,

    %ichael Iaperru<ue, Cherilyn Iee, Er. $llan %etBger, Er. Christne Luinn, Er. 9eil >atner, Ee##ie >o(e, Er.
    Gordon "asaki, Er. "co5 "aunders, Er. "idney "chnoll, Er. %yer "himelman, Er. Eaid "lait, Er. *illiam Aan
    Aalin, Er. Carl Airgil, >oland *illiams.
    2" &s there also trial testmony that you1e reie(ed that1s partcularly pertnent to the opinions that you1re
    ofering?
    A" You1re asking me to read that as (ell, & take it?
    2" Yes, please, and then (e1ll #e done.
    A" 3kay. Er. Charles CBeisler, Er. "idney "chnoll, Er. Petros Ieounis, Karen ?aye, Kenny 3rtega, )rais Payne,
    %ichael Iaperru<ue, Katherine !ackson, Eaid ?ournier, Ee##ie >o(e, Prince !ackson, Er. Christne Luinn,
    Cherilyn Iee, Eaniel $nderson, Christopher >ogers and >ichard "ennef.
    2" "o in additon to all these materials that 44 #y the (ay, is that eerything that you reie(ed in the case?
    A" 9o. 9o. &t1s 'ust 44 it1s a long list, #ut it seems like it (as a lot 44 &1m 'oking. )here (as a lot more.
    2" 3kay. &n additon to those materials that you1e 'ust read for us, are you also relying on your educaton,
    your training, your e+perience for the opinions that you1re ofering here today?
    A" & am.
    2" You said, H&1e had a chance to reie( the testmony of Er. Ieounis (ho test,ed here last (eek.H
    A" Yes.
    2" Eid you reie( the part of his testmony (here he talked a#out (hether %ichael !ackson sufered from
    addicton?
    A" & did.
    2" &s the <ueston of (hether %r. !ackson sufered from addicton important to the opinions that you1re going
    to #e ofering here today a#out risk factors that afected %r. !ackson1s life e+pectancy?
    A" &t is.
    2" Prior to looking at Er. Ieounis1s testmony, #ased on your o(n reie( of the records, had you already
    come to an independent conclusion a#out (hether %r. !ackson sufered from any drug addicton?
    A" & had.
    2" $nd (hat (as your 44
    Mr" ,'&%e" &1m going to o#'ect to the ne+t <ueston as #eing cumulate.
    C'$rt" 3erruled.

    M*" C#+#(" &t1s #ased that he kno(s my ne+t <ueston.


    C'$rt" 9eed to hear the <ueston.
    M*" C#+#(" *hat do you #eliee %r. !ackson (as addicted to?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Cumulate. $lready talked a#out %r. Ieounis1s opinion. 9o( they1re going to ask him if he has a
    separate opinion on the same topic. )hat (ould #e a cumulate e+pert opinion.
    M*" C#+#(" 3ne <ueston, your honor. )rying to not recoer ground #ut to esta#lish foundaton for
    independent opinions, and then (e1ll moe on to the life e+pectancy.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )(o e+perts on the same topic.
    C'$rt" &t is cumulate to, & guess, certain addictons.
    M*" C#+#(" *hich is (hy (e1re not going to spend tme on it.
    C'$rt" 3kay. )hen don1t spend any tme on it. Iet1s 'ust get to the ne( stuf.
    M*" C#+#(" ?air to say that you agree (ith Er. Ieounis1s testmony that %r. !ackson (as addicted to opioids?
    Mr" ,'&%e" $gain, o#'ecton. )hat1s cumulate.
    C'$rt" "ustained.
    M*" C#+#(" Eid you reach any conclusions a#out %r. !ackson 44 the su#stances %r. !ackson (as addicted or
    not addicted to that difered from Er. Ieounis1s, (hat he test,ed to here?
    Mr" ,'&%e" $gain, same (ay to try to elicit the same thing, (hich is 44
    C'$rt" 3erruled. & think she1s asking a diferent <ueston.
    A" could you repeat the <ueston?
    M*" C#+#(" "ure. Because &1m trying not to recoer ground that (e coered (ith Er. Ieounis.
    A" Got it.
    2" "o in your assessment of the records, did you reach a conclusion that %r. !ackson (as addicted to or not
    addicted to any categories of drugs that difers from (hat Er. Ieounis came in and talked a#out at trial last
    (eek?
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3#'ect. Calls for cumulate. "he can 'ust ask him (hat his opinions are.
    M*" C#+#(" You don1t (ant me to ask (hat his opinions are.
    C'$rt" 3erruled.

    A" %y opinions did not difer as to the drugs he (as addicted to.
    Mr" ,'&%e" %oe to strike.
    C'$rt" )he ans(er is stricken. )hat1s not 44
    Mr" ,'&%e" %oe counsel #e admonished for elicitng that.
    Mr" $t(#m" Your honor, she didn1t elicit that. "he asked a diferent <ueston.
    C'$rt" "he asked a diferent <ueston. 2e elicited a diferent ans(er. "o you need to ask him <uestons 44 &
    thought you asked the prior <ueston. 2e olunteered.
    M*" C#+#(" HyesH or Hno,H did you come to a conclusion 44
    C'$rt" *hy don1t you lead him at this point?
    M*" C#+#(" 3kay.
    Mr" $t(#m" )hank you, your honor.
    M*" C#+#(" Eo you #eliee that %r. !ackson sufered from addicton to drugs of a#use that is diferent 44
    C'$rt" 9o. )hat1s not leading.
    Mr" #()*+" &t1s the same thing.
    C'$rt" Iet1s go to side#ar.
    3t+e 4'%%'5)(6 pr'-eed)(6 5#* +e#rd #t *)deb#r7
    C'$rt" $ll right. $ leading <ueston, Hdid you come to the conclusion that he (as addicted to propofol?H
    Mr" $t(#m" )hank you.
    M*" C#+#(" & thought the o#'ecton 44
    C'$rt" )hat1s the <ueston. *ell, #ecause of the nature of the ans(er that (as gien 44 and &1m not saying you
    asked an inappropriate <ueston. & thought it (as o#ious (hat you (ere trying to ask, #ased on (hat (as
    going on. Perhaps the (itness didn1t understand it. & said, Hgo ahead and lead him.H that1s (hat & meant. &
    understand you didn1t kno( (hat to do. But no( that you kno( 44
    M*" C#+#(" Yes.
    C'$rt" Counsel didn1t o#'ect. & assume that (as the <ueston that & intended that she ask. You (eren1t going
    to o#'ect on leading, #ecause & 'ust said you could lead.

    Mr" ,'&%e" )hat1s e+actly right. & (as (orried that 44 & mean, that (hat they (ere trying to do (as hae t(o
    separate opinions. Giing an opinion that %ichael !ackson (as addicted to opioids. "he ,rst #rought out it (as
    #ased on Ieounis, #ut then there (as a series of <uestons to say he independently came to the same
    conclusions.
    C'$rt" >ight.
    Mr" ,'&%e" )hat1s the pro#lem.
    C'$rt" 3kay. $nd & sustained your o#'ectons, so 44
    M*" C#+#(" $nd your honor, & (as 'ust confused a#out (hat they (ere o#'ectng to. & thought they didn1t
    (ant me to elicit from him 44 & thought they (anted me to hae Er. -arley say & reie(ed Er. Ieounis, & don1t
    disagree, let1s moe to the life e+pectancy piece. &1m happy to ask a ne( <ueston, (as he addicted to propofol.
    C'$rt" >ight. $pparently the (ay you (ere trying to get him to do it (on1t (ork.
    M*" C#+#(" >ight.
    Mr" #()*+" "o the <ueston is= Hdo you hae an opinion as to (hether or not %r. !ackson (as addicted to
    propofol?H
    M*" C#+#(" Yes.
    C'$rt" )hat (ay he (on1t #e confused and olunteer something else.
    Mr" ,'&%e" >ight. & think his agreeing (ith the other guy1s opinion, he apparently is relying on Er. Ieounis1s
    opinion later.
    C'$rt" >ight. $nd & see the opinions that are sort of coming do(n the pike.
    M*" C#+#(" Goes to life e+pectancy, so doesn1t go to this.
    C'$rt" & understand.
    M*" C#+#(" )hank you, your honor.
    3t+e 4'%%'5)(6 pr'-eed)(6 5#* +e#rd )( 'pe( -'$rt7
    C'$rt" 3kay. You may contnue.
    M*" C#+#(" )hank you, your honor.
    M*" C#+#(" Er. -arley, did you reach a conclusion as to (hether %r. !ackson (as addicted to propofol?

    A" Yes.
    2" $nd (hat (as your opinion?
    A" )here (as insuKcient eidence to indicate that he (as addicted to propofol from in the medical records.
    2" Eid you see eidence in the record that %r. !ackson a#used propofol?
    A" & did.
    2" $nd (hy do you say that?
    A" )here (as 44 #ecause he (as gien propofol initally for appropriate medical procedures, #ut at some point
    #egan seeking out physicians (ho (ould administer propofol to him in a methodical fashion, and #ecause it
    (as causing diKcultes in his life as a result.
    2" 3kay. $nd (e1ll come #ack to that. Eid you form an opinion a#out (hether or not %ichael !ackson1s
    addicton and drug use afected his life e+pectancy?
    A" & did.
    2" $nd (hat is your opinion?
    A" )hat it negately afected his life e+pectancy.
    2" $nd (hat drugs do you #eliee %r. !ackson 44 strike that. Eo you hold that opinion to a reasona#le degree
    of medical certainty?
    A" & do.
    2" $nd (hich drugs do you #eliee, to a reasona#le degree of medical certainty, created serious risks that
    afected %r. !ackson1s life e+pectancy?
    A" )hree categories of drugs= propofol, the opiate categories of drug or opioid category of drugs, and the
    #enBodiaBepine category of drugs.
    2" $re you ofering a num#er for %r. !ackson1s life e+pectancy?
    A" &1m not.
    2" $re you an actuary?
    A" 9o.
    2" "o is it fair to say that you1re not going to tell the 'ury that %r. !ackson had a 7G percent chance of liing a
    certain num#er of years, or anything like that <uantfying his life e+pectancy?

    A" 9o. $lthough & understand #asic statstcs, that is a ery complicated thing. & don1t kno( anything a#out
    that.
    2" $nd that1s outside your e+pertse?
    A" )hat1s outside my e+pertse.
    2" *ere you eer asked to come up (ith that kind of a num#er?
    A" & (as not.
    2" "o (hat e+pertse do you hae that1s releant to life e+pectancy?
    A" & hae e+pertse in that /; years of e+perience in dealing (ith patents that hae addicton pro#lems and
    their outcomes, and follo(ing them oer prolonged periods of tme. & certainly hae lots of e+perience in terms
    of the literature of su#stance a#use, and the types of things (hich portend for negate outcomes (hich (ould
    afect life e+pectancy. & hae e+pertse in understanding the efects of propofol on the #ody, and the efects of
    not only acute #ut also prolonged afects of propofol on the #ody and ho( that might afect life e+pectancy. &
    hae e+pertse in understanding (hat1s called a synergy or the interacton #et(een all of those drugs and ho(
    that can afect life e+pectancy. $nd then #enBodiaBepines as (ell. $nd it comes from /; years of e+perience,
    reading and (ritng in the literature, training other clinicians a#out this, and really follo(ing patents for
    decades.
    2" $s a clinician (ho treats patents, do you hear the term HprognosisH?
    A" & do.
    2" $nd (hat is a prognosis? Eo you use the term?
    A" $ prognosis is something that physicians are al(ays called upon, (hether you go in and hae a 44 (hether
    you hae a chest cold, or (hether you hae cancer. &t means the outcome of (hat1s going to happen ne+t. &t1s
    predictng in the future (hat1s going to happen ne+t.
    2" "o een though you1re not ofering a speci,c num#er, do you hae an opinion, to a reasona#le degree of
    medical certainty, a#out (hat %r. !ackson1s prognosis (as in light of his drug use?
    A" & do.
    2" $nd at the tme of his passing, (hat (as %r. !ackson1s prognosis?
    A" %r. !ackson1s prognosis (as grae in regards to his 44 the conse<uences to his life e+pectancy resultng from
    his poly4su#stance dependence.
    2" $nd (hat does Hgrae prognosisH mean?
    A" Grae prognosis is a term (e use in medicine (hich means you talk a#out e+cellent, good, fair, poor and
    grae. $nd those 44 it1s a scale that one uses to determine and to really impart to your patents (hat1s going to
    happen in the future. $nd in %r. !ackson1s case, all of the data points to the fact that his prognosis (as grae.

    2" Eid you put together some slides to use in your testmony here today?
    A" & did.
    2" 3kay. $nd do you hae a slide a#out 44 sort of summariBing your points a#out (hy %r. !ackson1s prognosis
    (as grae?
    A" & do. )hat1s the ,rst slide (e hae here.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd & #eliee it (ill #e 44 it1s slide . in the set. & #eliee it1s e+hi#it ./,G6/. Put it up for counsel
    #efore the (itness ,rst, please. $ny o#'ecton?
    Mr" ,'&%e" 9o o#'ecton.
    Mr" #()*+" $nd 'ust 44 &1m sorry. Could you tell us the e+hi#it num#er again?
    M*" C#+#(" ./,G6/.
    Mr" #()*+" )hank you.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd can you 'ust e+plain (hat you1re saying in this slide?
    A" Yes. )here are four categories that & felt contri#uted to his grae prognosis. )he ,rst is the inappropriate
    use of propofol. )hat means the seCng and the set, and the reason that the propofol (as administered. )he
    second one (as conse<uences of his opioid addicton, and ho( that (ould afect his prognosis. )he third item
    is (hat1s called the synergy or interacton #et(een the drugs. $nd synergy 'ust means that the efect is not 'ust
    addite, #ut there1s interacton #et(een the drugs in terms of outcome. $nd that synergy (orsens the
    prognosis. $nd ,nally, e+tensie o#stacles that, tragically, %r. !ackson (ould hae to hae oercome een to
    get into a state of recoery or remission of his illness, and those o#stacles, unfortunately, (ere large and
    dauntng.
    2" "o drug synergy, you said it1s not 'ust addite. People sometmes say H. plus . e<uals / in terms of
    synergyH?
    A" )hat1s one (ay of puCng it, yes.
    2" "o the efect of c drug is 'ust the afect of drug . and drug 0, it1s something more than that?
    A" >ight. $nd that1s (hy, (hen you go to the doctor, they ask you (hat drugs you1re on. Because drugs hae
    interactons. &f drug a does this, drug # causes this, you put them together sometmes and get a third thing,
    (hich can #e trou#lesome. $nd that1s actually a #ig pro#lem in medicine, especially today, #ecause people are
    on so many drugs, and for good reason, if they1re on lots of these drugs, #ut there1s a negate efect (hen you
    put them together.
    2" Iet1s talk a li5le #it 44
    M*" C#+#(" Pam, you can put that do(n.
    M*" C#+#(" Iet1s talk a#out propofol. *hat is propofol?

    A" Propofol is an anesthetc agent. &t (as initally released as (hat1s called an inducton agent to put you to
    sleep #ut not to hold you to sleep. &nitally, that (as used to 'ust put you to sleep so they (ouldn1t hae to
    hae a gas mask oer their face and hae it #e scary. $nd a@er it (as initally #rought on the market, it (as
    then used for short4term procedures, and pre5y soon it (as used more o@en for longer term anesthetc
    procedures, or for procedures (here you (ouldn1t go completely unconscious. *hat is called a t(ilight sleep.
    &f you hae a partcularly painful oral surgery, you1re not completely asleep, you can gie a lighter dose, and
    people (ould #e in a t(ilight sleep state. "o (hen it (as initally introduced, it (as 'ust an inducton agent. But
    it (as found to #e so efecte and so (ell tolerated that its use kept on increasing, and anesthesiologists felt
    that it (as a (onderful drug for anesthesia. $nd so it1s no( the most commonly popular 44 most commonly
    used anesthetc agent (orld(ide.
    2" Eoes that mean that propofol is safe?
    A" *hen used in the proper seCng and set (ith the 44 #y the proper indiiduals, propofol is a safe drug.
    2" Eid you reie( the testmony of nurse anesthetst, Eaid ?ournier, in this case?
    A" & did.
    2" Eid you see his testmony a#out the e<uipment re<uired to safely administer propofol?
    A" & did. $nd, actually, (e hae a slide on that one.
    M*" C#+#(" >ight. $nd Pam, &1d like you to put up, please, the slide %r. ?ournier used to talk a#out the safe
    (ay to use propofol, (hich (as preiously marked as e+hi#it ./,F70.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3#'ect. )his (itness has neer administered propofol #efore.
    C'$rt" 3erruled.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd is this consistent (ith your understanding of (hat1s re<uired to safely administer propofol?
    A" &t is. )here1s an e+tensie set of instruments and things, like the capnograph measures co0 leels. "o it
    makes sure you1re actually #reathing properly and that sort of thing. "o all of these things hae #ecome the
    standard (hen someone undergoes general propofol anesthesia.
    2" &s there a diference that1s signi,cant to you in the e<uipment that1s re<uired to safely administer propofol
    ersus the other types of drugs (e1e #een talking a#out in this case in terms of opioids and #enBodiaBepines?
    A" Eiferent. 3pioids and #enBodiaBepine drugs, depending on the route of administraton, essentally re<uire
    almost nothing in comparison to this kind of encyclopedic reference of things to use.
    2" Eo you hae a slide of that as (ell?
    A" & do. )hat1s the ne+t slide.
    M*" C#+#(" )hat (ould #e 44 any o#'ecton to us puCng it up? &t1s no. / of the set4up.

    Mr" ,'&%e" 9o o#'ecton.


    M*" C#+#(" 3kay. $nd that (ill #e e+hi#it ./,G6F.
    M*" C#+#(" &s this your illustraton of the difering amounts of e<uipment that are re<uired?
    A" &t is. $nd on the le@4hand side, you see this litany of things that are re<uired for administraton of propofol
    safely. $nd, o#iously, at the top of the list is a trained anesthesiologist. $nd on the right, if you take an opioid
    pill, you need a glass of (ater. 3r if you1re taking an in'ecta#le form of an opioid, you need a syringe and an
    alcohol prep pad, and that is in'ected into the #ody, and then you1re done. $nd as long as the dosing is correct,
    and as long as the physician kno(s e+actly (hat medicines you1re taking, that administraton is safe.
    2" $nd are there other things in your e+perience, as an addicton medicine specialist (ho has taken care of
    some people (ith propofol dependency, that stands out as diferent a#out propofol a#use and a#use of
    opioids and #enBodiaBepines?
    A" Yes. )here are some nota#le changes in ho( the drug afects the #ody. &t1s 44 and & think there1s a slide on
    that. Yes, (e hae a slide on that in the ne+t slide.
    2" *hat1s the num#er on that one?
    A" )hat1s F or 44
    M*" C#+#(" $ny o#'ecton to us puCng up slide F?
    Mr" ,'&%e" Based on the court1s prior rulings, no o#'ecton.
    M*" C#+#(" ./,G6G is the e+hi#it num#er.
    A" so (hat you see in this slide, the ,rst one (e1re going to e+plain in the ne+t slide, #ecause it1s a
    pharmacological thing. But once you see it graphically, you1ll understand it. 2o( propofol (orks in the #ody is,
    there1s ery, ery small changes in the dose to produce profound changes in the alertness of the indiidual,
    and it goes from #eing 44 you go from anesthesia to stopping #reathing (ith ery small doses. *e1ll see that
    ne+t. )he ne+t is the administraton (here the administraton took place. &f 44 from %r. !ackson1s history, (e
    kno( that he had propofol administered in Germany from Karen >o(e1s testmony. )hat (as done, actually,
    (ith a ery complete, almost operatng room amounts of e<uipment. But #y the end, he (as administered
    propofol in 0;;: in an unsafe seCng.
    M*" C#+#(" "o these are the risk factors that you see 44 let me 'ust stop you.
    A" Yes.
    2" )hese are the risk factors you sa( (ith the (ay %r. !ackson (as using propofol?
    A" Yeah. &1m sorry. & (anted to get into the details.
    2" $nd 'ust #efore (e do that, are there things a#out the a#use of propofol that are sort of, generally
    speaking, <ualitately diferent than a#use of opioids and #enBodiaBepines? & kno( you said it1s more rare.
    $re there other things a#out it that make it stand out?

    A" *ell, yeah. )here are seeral things that stand out. )he ,rst is, it1s generally not aaila#le. You can1t go to a
    pharmacy (ith a prescripton that says gie me propofol. >etail pharmacies don1t een carry it. &n contrast, if
    you (orked in an operatng room, there are #o+es of propofol siCng in the corner #ecause it1s a li<uid, and
    you can1t store it in small ials. &f you go in the operatng room, you1ll see #o+es stacked up in the utlity room.
    "o access is high in the operatng theater #ut lo( in the general pu#lic. $nd those are the general issues that
    are inoled in it. $ccess is a #ig issue.
    2" $nd since (e hae the lunch #reak coming up, let1s pause on the predispositons you mentoned, so (e
    can coer that so (e make sure & understand it #efore the #reak. You said you had a slide on that. &t1s slide no.
    G?
    M*" C#+#(" $ny o#'ecton?
    Mr" ,'&%e" 9o o#'ecton.
    A" & hae it as slide 6. "lide 6.
    M*" C#+#(" &t1s this slide.
    A" that slide, right.
    Mr" ,'&%e" *hat1s the num#er?
    M*" C#+#(" )hat (ill #e e+hi#it no. ./,G66.
    Mr" ,'&%e" 3kay.
    M*" C#+#(" Can you 'ust e+plain to us this steep dose4response process, please?
    A" Yes, & sure can. &f you look on the le@, you can see (hat happens (ith #enBodiaBepine drugs, the
    aliumO+ana+ types of drugs and (ith the opioid drugs, the o+ycodone, those sorts of drugs. *hat happens
    along 44 & guess & don1t hae a pointer, #ut along this #ar you see that the efect changes in response to dose.
    $nd as you increase the dose, you go from haing the efect that you (ant, to if you take too much of it, (hich
    is (hat (e see in our culture today, people can actually take enough of the oral form of opioids to die,
    o+ycodone, or something like that. But ,rst you #ecome unconscious, #ut you see ho( that cure is Dat. Eoes
    that make sense?
    M*" C#+#(" Your honor, may & approach to gie him a laser pointer?
    C'$rt" Yes.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd & (ill tell you, it (ill not (ork on that t screen #ut (ill (ork on that #ig display screen.
    A" 3K. 2opefully & (on1t #lind myself here. 3n the right4hand side, you1ll see (hat happens in propofol. You
    notce ho( the cure here is steep. )hat means (ith small changes in dose, the efect on the patent changes
    dramatcally. 9o(, that1s 44 that means that if you1re in an operatng room, and someone is #eing gien
    propofol 44 and this happens all the tme. )hey undergo anesthesia, and as they undergo anesthesia,
    sometmes literally you1ll stop #reathing. $nd the anesthesiologist 'ust reaches oer and pushes the am#u #ag

    a li5le #it, turns do(n the propofol 'ust a notch, and you1re ,ne. "o the fact that one stops #reathing on
    propofol is 44 you kno(, it pro#a#ly happens 0; tmes a day in the operatng room (hen you1re undergoing
    anesthesia, #ut #ecause you hae an anesthesiologist (ho is looking at all the instruments saying, Hoh, look, he
    stopped #reathing.H they1ll turn do(n the propofol, gie a s<ueeBe to the am#u #ag, and you1ll start #reathing
    spontaneously ery rapidly. 9o harm, no foul. 9o damage to the #ody. But that change, the small changes in
    the dose, hae you moe from unconsciousness 44 (hich is, o#iously, (hat you (ant to #e (hen you1re haing
    surgery, right? )he diference #et(een unconsciousness and death is ery narro(, a ery narro( range. $nd if
    that (asn1t enough, from tme to tme, people1s responses to propofol (ill change #ased on ho( much sleep
    you had the night #efore, your nutriton, ho( much cofee you drank. "o sometmes if you gae a dose + of
    propofol to a person, they (ould go completely unconscious, other tmes you (ould gie that same dose to
    that same person on a diferent day, and either nothing (ould happen, or they (ould go completely
    unconscious and stop #reathing. "o not only is that dose response cure steep, #ut, also, people respond
    diferently from tme to tme. )hat means the drug is 44 has to #e managed #y someone (ho has a really clear
    idea a#out the efect of the drug, and to monitor that.
    M*" C#+#(" $nd is that aria#ility from person to person and tme to tme (hy there1s no num#ers listed
    under the dosage there?
    A" Yeah. & mean, it1s 44
    2" )his is 'ust an illustraton?
    A" &t1s 'ust an illustraton. -+actly.
    2" 3kay. But the idea is that there1s 44 a small change in the dosage of propofol can hae a #ig efect, more so
    than opioids or #enBodiaBepines, is that fair?
    A" $#solutely. $nd the reason it1s Da5er here is, as you increase the dose, you hae to hae (ider doses of
    change that make you go from #eing a(ake and may#e hae no pain to #efore you go unconscious. )hat sort
    of thing.
    M*" C#+#(" & think this is pro#a#ly a good place to stop, if that1s 3K (ith your honor.
    C'$rt" 3kay. .=/;, #ack to the courtroom. )hank you. 2ae a good lunch.
    3t+e 0$r& e8)ted t+e -'$rtr''m #t 1290: p"m"7
    C'$rt" !ust remem#er not to hae any discussions 'ust untl the 'ury is completely out of the room.
    A" &1m sorry.
    C'$rt" )hat1s 3K. %ost people don1t kno( that, #ut the la(yers are <uiet #ecause you need to stay <uiet.
    A" 3K.

    C'$rt" 3kay. )hank you. "ee you at .=/;.

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