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Gespräche: Lunyü

Gespräche: Lunyü

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Gespräche: Lunyü

Bewertungen:
3/5 (554 Bewertungen)
Länge:
825 Seiten
16 Stunden
Herausgeber:
Freigegeben:
18. Nov. 2013
ISBN:
9783843800976
Format:
Buch

Beschreibung

Konfuzius war einer der herausragendsten Denker Chinas, dessen Lehre sich auf das praktische Leben der Menschen konzentriert. Die Logik als Disziplin lehnt er ebenso wie die Metaphysik ab. Der Idealmensch des Konfuzius ist der Edle, der bei allem das Maß hält, bei dem äußere und innere Qualitäten im Gleichgewicht zueinander stehen. Die Regierenden sollen seiner Philosophie nach das Volk durch Vorbildwirkung und nicht durch auferzwungene Gesetze regieren. Aufgrund seines ausgeprägten Traditonsbewußtseins verwendet Konfuzius für seine philosophischen Ansätze fast ausschließlich Überlieferungen der sagenhaften Kaiser.
Herausgeber:
Freigegeben:
18. Nov. 2013
ISBN:
9783843800976
Format:
Buch

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554 Bewertungen / 21 Rezensionen
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  • (3/5)
    I found this to be the best of Confucius' books that I have come across so far. It was the most interesting and palatable and I felt there was knowledge and wisdom to be gained from it. I would recommend it to those interested in philosophy.
  • (5/5)
    I found the 2007 translation by Burton Watson to be highly readable. I know nothing about Confucius or even Chinese history but still found many valuable passages. It is easy to see how this (and I presume other Confucius texts) could form the ethical foundation of a culture, not unlike the Bible or Tora and other sacred texts. It's even more remarkable for being secular and not mythological based, which lends it even greater credibility, at least for this modern reader. Its emphasis on "humanity" can never go out of style. Considering its age this is certainly among the greatest books of world literature.
  • (4/5)
    In his Teaching Company course on the Analects of Confucius, Dr. Robert Andre LaFleur says he recommends that his students read six different translations. I just complete my second—this book. I can definitely say that reading more than one translation (and listening to Dr. LaFleur’s excellent course) will give you a better understanding of Confucius; however, I must make a couple of immediate observations:-While some passages become clearer, the varying translations of the same passage differ so much in some cases that it is hard to tell up from down!-Reading multiple translations reinforces just how pasted together much of the Analects are. Oddball passages that clearly don’t belong creep in, but even after hundreds of years, we must still deal with them.I first read one of the long-time standard translations, by D.C. Lau. It had an excellent introduction and was easy to get through. In contrast to this Simon Leys version, however, it clearly lacked literary style. I’m sure it’s partly because the material is more familiar, but there is also no doubt that Leys’ translation reads better. Whether it is more accurate is another question. Leys provides detailed notes about how he arrived at his translations, and he clearly identifies where he differs from other translations. In a review by Jonathan Spence when this book was first published, however, Spence (whom I have great respect for) does take issue with some of Leys’ interpretations. Given the ambiguity of classical Chinese to begin with, the corruption of the text over 2500 years, and the changing meaning of Chinese characters from generation to generation, I’m not sure anyone can ever say which translation is correct. Leys clearly has a bit of an agenda here, however. He is (was, actually, since he passed away in 2016) a conservative Roman Catholic, and his religious prejudices creep into some of his translations and are quite prominent in a few of his notes. For instance, he clearly equates homosexual families with a degeneration in society. His religious bias also shows through when he quotes another writer as saying how reading the four gospels clearly shows a single intelligence behind the writing, and he asserts the same is true of reading Confucius. In the case of the Bible, this is pure nonsense. The gospels contradict each other even more than the Analects, and like the Analects, they were written long after the death of their subject.Leys also takes an inexplicable potshot at Pinyin romanization compared to Wade-Giles. By understanding a few simple rules, anyone can read Pinyin and come up with reasonable Mandarin Chinese pronunciation, whereas Wade-Giles doesn’t even come close! This just seems to be the author’s prejudice, since his Chinese studies started a long, long time ago.Nevertheless, as I read through this book, I have to give the author credit for his learning and his use of quotations from a host of authors to support or elucidate the points he wants to make about Confucius. A quotation from C.S. Lewis about the difference between readers and non-readers, for instance, is brilliant. Leys also makes the Analects easier to understand by using a single name for each of Confucius’ disciples rather than the multiple formal or personal names that appear in the original text. For a Chinese scholar reading this, it may be a problem, but for the normal intelligent English-language reader, it is a boon.Leys presents the translations unadorned by any notes, which appear in a separate section. The main text doesn’t even indicate which of the sayings have further notes. Many of them don’t if they are self-explanatory. You can certainly read through the Analects without even referring to the notes, since Leys’ translation is so clear. However, part of me does wish the notes were provided on the same page so I didn’t have to keep two bookmarks in place and flip back and forth. Given that this is a small, lightweight paperback, however, that wasn’t too much trouble.So, overall I can truly recommend this book as an easy-to-follow, rewarding translation for someone trying to develop a deeper understanding of the Confucian worldview. I can also second the recommendation to read more than one translation.
  • (3/5)
    Somewhat boring!!! I always thought Confucius was some really wise old man. It turns out he was senile spouting silliness and his followers just believed it all to be deep. Sometimes people are so in need of a hero they will find one anywhere.
  • (3/5)
    There was much less here than I expected. The Folio volume is very nice.
  • (5/5)
    Though I am not able to read Chinese, this book seems to be a high quality and reliable translation of Master Kong's words. In 'The Analects of Confucius' we read the question-and-answer exchanges between Master Kong (Confucius) and his students. It is quite interesting to read some pearls of wisdom, and some other ideas, from ancient China -- including, 500 years before the alleged life of Christ, the idea of "Do not do to others what you'd find offensive if done to you". Master Kong's words reach us to even today, two and a half millennia later, thanks to the curation of many Chinese scholars over the many centuries and thanks to translators who put his words into English. I believe this book is invaluable for anyone interested in philosophy, in general, and will find it key to rounding out a broad learning of philosophy.
  • (5/5)
    This was my first proper reading of Confucius. Again, the ancients set the tone for so many things that followed. Given that Confucius lived during the 6th century BCE, I am not surprised to read familiar words that have somehow crept into modern language but without sufficient acknowledgement of the original source. There are many surprising similarities with Stoicism, and, dare I say, Christianity. While reading the Stoics, I was conscious of the need to avoid the Occidentalist assumptions, hence my choice to read Confucius now. This work has encouraged me to read The Book of Odes, Shi-King to lift the veil of my ignorance in this important area - religion, spirituality, ethics, morals, philosophy, call it what you will. It is regrettable that I do not have enough life remaining to study all the things I wish to learn.
  • (3/5)
    Interesting, in parts. Elsewhere... confusing. Elsewhere... boring and re-re-repetitive.

    The Analects is collection of aphorisms, fragmentary historical references, fragmentary literary references, and the occasional pearl of wisdom. On the one hand I find it hard to see how it has the status that it does, as a major work of philosophy. On the other hand, I see how, in attempting to piece together meaning and wisdom from the bits and saying here, it could take on that status: though one is forced to wonder, then, how much of Confucian wisdom is the reader's and how much was Master K'ung's.

    Do not expect anything like a system per se. And be prepared for a incredible level of conservative pointing back to what, especially for an American reader unfamiliar with (now ancient) Chinese culture, is at best a dim outline. I've heard Confucius compared to Jesus, and that may actually be the more apt comparison, ignoring the mystical/religious part of Jesus: there is much moral and esoteric advice, but nothing like a philosophical system, metaphysics, physics , etc.
  • (4/5)
    The translation is a bit obtuse.
  • (2/5)
    I really got nothing out of this. The introduction admitted that the majority of this stuff either didn't come from Confucious or was a bastardization of his teachings. There were a few scattered sayings that may have been profound but overall it seemed to have too much to do with courtly politics.
  • (4/5)
    One of most well known books in the world's history and for good reason. I originally purchased this book only because it was required for a class I was taking but ended up hanging on it because I found it a thoroughly enjoyable read. One of the wisest men to ever walk the Earth, Confucius and his teachings are just as important today as they were in ancient China. Confucius correctly believed that a well educated and highly moral people will create a strong and prosperous country. The moral guidance laid out but the wise man should be studied and emulated by all people.
  • (4/5)
    While I have credited the writing of this work to Confucius, it was not actually written by him but rather by his disciples. Thus Confucius joins Socrates and Jesus Christ in having an enormous influence upon the world without actually writing anything down (though this is not correct, as I further outline below). Further, like Jesus Christ and Socrates, the books are a record of his sayings (though, unlike Jesus Christ, he did not perform any miracles, nor did he speak of salvation).An interesting point: the phrase 'Confucius says' appears only once in the book - most of the time his sayings are introduced with the phrase 'the master says'. Like Jesus and Socrates, these writings were collected years after his death, though it does appear that there are some books attributed to him, though there is no hard evidence that he actually wrote anything - though it might be best to suggest that we have no works authored by Confucius, only books attributed to him. Further, since he was in politics for a time, it is more than possible that he did write things, and bureaucratic writing does tend to lead to other literary creations. Confucius married, had children, and died a natural death (it appears) as opposed to being executed like Jesus and Socrates.The Analects is a book of wisdom which has created a lot of controversy over the centuries. While Confucius is held in high regard, he has a lot to say about our relations to the sovereign and does suggest that submission to the sovereign is the best (which brings him in line with Jesus' political teachings). Confucius holds education in high regard, and this is where I will quote my favourite analect 'to study without thinking is futile, to think without studying is dangerous'. While one could sit down and explore these analects, one to the best ways to approach them is to consider each one on their merit. While there is a lot of context to consider, many of these sayings (like the book of Proverbs) are timeless.Confucius is also a big supporter of election by merit. That is a person should hold a managerial position because of his (or her) skill and ability rather than simply through family or friends. Our society, and indeed the British Empire, does consider merit in a lot of managerial roles that exist, though due to our human nature, it is always the case that we will tend to look over somebody much more qualified in favour of somebody that we tend to like. However the days of generals and lords being appointed by family are long gone, and those entities that end up running on familial benefits end up not lasting all that long.This version of the book is full of footnotes, and that can be quite annoying when one is constantly flicking back and forth so as to read the footnotes. Granted, many of us don't even bother reading them, however with a book like the Analects, it is required because it was written so long ago in a society that is completely foreign to us. As such these footnotes tend to identify the characters in the Analects as well as comment on the difficulty of the translation. Further, this was written in the pre-imperial age when China was little more than a collection of feudal states. Confucius did not have an immediate impact upon China, however after his disciples commemorated him by writing down his sayings, his style of politics ended up becoming the dominant. Some have suggested that Confucius was an Athiest, however the Analects do not seem to suggest that this is the case: he pays due respect to heaven and there is no indication that he did not believe in a spiritual world. What he is interested in though is how to effectively rule the physical world.
  • (5/5)
    A splendid version (by Edward Slingerland) of this classic with an extensive selection of historical commentaries by Confucian scholars as well as several useful appendices. This edition is extremely useful and readable.
  • (3/5)
    Along with Taoism and Buddhism, Confucianism is called one of the "three great teachings" or "three great religions" of China, and has had an enormous influence not just on China but the entire Far East. This was on Good Reading's list of "100 Significant Books" and there's no question this is one of those books anyone who wishes to consider themselves educated should be familiar with. Reading it you can certainly see a lot of the hallmarks of traditional Chinese culture with its emphasis on family and education. Confucius (551 BC – 479 BC) is thus one of those thinkers it's truly important to know. Yet three stars is actually being generous, and reflects more that I think this is a must read for historical reasons than any affinity with the material--I found reading this a slog. Admittedly as a Westerner I'm at a disadvantage. I may not count myself a believing Christian, but as an American I was steeped in a Christian-dominated culture, where even the cartoons on Saturday morning often had Biblical stories or motifs. So, of course, something like the Bible is going to be much more accessible, and I thought a lot of the time with The Analects, I was missing the context, never mind the issue of various translations. Even with the Bible though, which is more a library than a single book, some parts were more enjoyable, more moving or thought-provoking than others, as with actual stories or the poetry. The closest Biblical analogue to The Analects are Proverbs, a collection of wisdom sayings. The content of The Analects are aphorisms, not arguments. This isn't a philosophy in the way of Aristotle or Plato, with questions, dialogue, arguments. This a compilation by disciples of Confucius of his sayings that, without commentary or footnotes, run to no more than about 100 pages. Are there some gems here, some surprises? Sure. I was particularly taken with this formulation of the Golden Rule: Zigong asked: "Is there any single word that could guide one's entire life?" The Master said: "Should it not be reciprocity? What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others." (Simon Leys trans., p 77)Nevertheless, I read this right after reading Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching, also on that list of significant books, and despite my Westerner perspective meaning I probably missed a lot, and it had a lot that was cryptic, I both enjoyed it more and found it more congenial. The Tao is made up of 81 brief verses, each of which is self-contained if related in outlook, while The Analects felt more scattered to me. I also preferred the philosophy in the Tao to that of The Analects. A lot of commentators connect the two, and there is even a tradition that Lao Tzu was a teacher of Confucius, but some scholars actually think Taoism was a reaction to and critique of Confucianism, and they seem opposites--at least from my casual read of the two texts back to back--I admit I'm not a scholar of Chinese philosophy. Both share a lack of recourse to the supernatural I find appealing. These are secular ethics recommended for a good life, not for a reward in an afterlife, which is why they're more philosophies than religions, even if these books don't really present logical, reasoned arguments. But while the Tao puts an emphasis on the natural, Confucius puts it on ritual. Where the Tao calls for non-interference by government, Confucius seems to call for submission to tradition and authority. Filial piety seems the highest value. In at least one introduction--to an edition of the Tao actually, it did point out that along with the Tao principle of non-force, the Confucian regard for the family over the state has been at least one form of resistance to it. But it's hard for me to admire as a sage a man who values "filial piety" so highly, and who defines it as "not being disobedient." Note this passage:The Master said, "In serving his parents, a son may remonstrate with them, but gently; when he sees that they do not incline to follow his advice, he shows an increased degree of reverence, but does not abandon his purpose; and should they punish him, he does not allow himself to murmur."So I admit I don't feel I got a lot out of reading this book, nor do I feel inspired at this point to dig further. On the other hand, I did find even getting the flavor, the gist, of such an influential way of thinking made it worth reading.
  • (2/5)
    Disappointing.

    You know in all those Charlie Chan movies, where Charlie Chan would say, "Confucius say..." and follow with something brilliant? Well, Confucius never said all that shit.

    Basically, he said, "Love learning, mourn your parents for three years, know the Odes, appreciate music, observe the proper rituals, honor what has come before, observe propriety, love doing a good job over getting a good salary, and love virtue more than beauty."

    I mean, that's it. I summarized it for you.
  • (5/5)
    The title of the book was the translation adopted by Western scholars in the late 19th century of the words Lun Yu. The editor of this edition translates Lun Yu to mean Ethical Dialogues but uses the standard title out of respect for the tradition that has grown up around it. The original meaning of Analects was "literary gleanings". Having read the book I think that Ethical Dialogues is a better description of it. The book contains 20 books with numerous chapters which are two to five paragraphs long.Each chapter conveys a significant statement of ideas in very short phrases. This is partly a function of how the Chinese language works. In chapter 15.24 a disciple asks Confucius, " Is there a single word that one can practice throughout one's life? Confucius answer is "like-hearted considerateness" which is a translation of the Chinese word shu. Through the use of characters the Chinese language is able to express complicated ideas in one word. Reading the book made me wish that I could read it in Chinese. I remember just a very little bit of what I studied in college but enough to get a hint of the difference in how the language works. The pictographic aspects of the characters are another feature of the language that make the meanings of the characters very complex and subtle.Confucius defines light-hearted considerateness as "What you do not wish for yourself, do not impose on others." This is referred to as the Chinese Golden Rule. While the spirit may be the same it is very different from "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." All through the chapters is a discussion of the same ideas. Humanity, righteousness, sage men, the way and virtue are concepts which are repeated over and over giving the reader different aspects of lessons in how to live properly. Voltaire said of Confucius; "He was the first great teacher who did not require divine inspiration." While the term Heaven is used very often there is no concept of a personal God. The philosophy of Confucius was the bedrock of East Asian civilization for over two thousand years. The editor cites modern examples in the East and West of respect and admiration for Confucian ideas. The strict emphasis on the duties of obedience within the family and from the individual to the ruler were, for me, the most negative aspects of the ideas. This is truly a great book. It carries a great deal of meaning in a small package. I am sure that with each reading I would find something different. It gave me some understanding of a philosophy of life that is very, very different from Western ideas.
  • (4/5)
    This is the best book for anyone who wants to study Confucius. Slingerland's translation is wonderful, and the added commentaries are inispensable. The appendices in the back are also extremely useful, and I use them when studying other Chinese philosophy books.
  • (4/5)
    The wisdom of Confucius is timeless. This translation is accessible to readers, not overly scholarly while not insulting the readers' intelligence. There is a bit of history, to help give the text a framework. This is especially important when dealing with ancient Asian philosophy. The time in which Confucius lived shaped his proverbs, and a reader would do well to remember that.
  • (4/5)
    Rating philosophy that's older than Christ would be just a tad pretentious, so instead I'll focus on the experience of reading this edition of The Analects. The text gives an excellent background on the exact meaning of many Chinese terms, which set me up well to understand Confucius' more esoteric sayings. I particularly enjoyed the passages about friendship, education and family as these seemed to resonate even today. However, unless you're reading for academic purposes, I'd recommend seeking out an abridged edition of the book. The bulk of the sayings focus on ceremonial practices and the behavior of ancient noble families, which was hard to understand and relate to.
  • (4/5)
    The introduction by Simon Leys ( alias of Pierre Ryckmans) is of exceptional interest and so are the notes discussing in particular the way a number of words (?) have been interpreted by different translators. How confucianism has been misused by regimes. Interestingly, this translation and interpretation is appreciated by Chris Patten ( cf 'East and West', written by the "last Governor of Hong-Kong"). As for the text itself, I find it often very remote.
  • (2/5)
    A tough slog. It is better to read about confucious first before tackling this randome assemblage of his alledged writings.