Reincarnation: the 35 steps of soul evolution

According to many spiritual teachers, all human beings are, in reality, spiritual beings on a human journey. We reincarnate as human beings in order to evolve as souls. Our ultimate aim is to become fully conscious and capable as unique individual expressions of All That Is. It is a long journey, but thats okay because the soul is eternal.

Soul Evolution
The souls journey is really a process of evolving. This means growing in consciousness, steadily progressing through different levels or stages of consciousness. How do we grow in consciousness? Through taking on challenging experiences in physical form. These cause us to make important, soul-searching choices and call upon us to discover our inner resources. But why in physical form? Why would a perfectly happy spiritual being decide to inhabit the physical realm with all of its limitations and difficulties? It is precisely so that we can experience the state of what feels like total separation from others and from the rest of reality. Only by going into this physically separated human form can we know ourselves as beings in our own right, and not just as well undifferentiated blobs of energy. Being physical throws our experiences and choices into extremely sharp relief in a way that is not possible otherwise. This is how we learn who we are and how to become all that we are. In other words:
Choice and the ramifications of choice provide the essential lessons of life. In a very real sense, you choose to be here in order to make choices. Messages from Michael

The 35 Steps
We are here to know ourselves and be all we can be, step by step. And according to the teachings of the entity known as Michael, there are 35 steps to the reincarnational process. The body and personality you have now are merely the vehicles you have chosen for this latest step in your journey. But why 35 steps? Why not 36 steps? Or 10? Or 100? It is simply because, according to Michael, we go through five major stages of evolution through reincarnation. And, within each stage there are seven increments or levels to be completed. (Yes, it is rather like a computer game.) 5 x 7 = 35.

Each single step requires a whole lifetime to complete. In fact, each step usually requires more than one lifetime. Typically, the entire journey of 35 steps takes well over a hundred lifetimes. So lets look at the journey in more detail. Well start with the five major stages of soul evolution through reincarnation.

The Five Stages

The Michael teachings describe a sequence of five cycles or stages of soul evolution. They are named after the stages of human development:

Stage 1: The INFANT Soul Stage 2: The BABY Soul [also known as CHILD Soul] Stage 3: The YOUNG Soul Stage 4: The MATURE Soul Stage 5: The OLD Soul

Each of these five corresponds to a specific level of development in capability and self-awareness within the individual soul. Each stage is also characterised by a different learning focus that is more subtle than the previous ones.

Incidentally, the same pattern of soul evolution has been identified by the hypnotherapist Michael Newton (right). His groundbreaking research was published in the best-selling book Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Llewellyn, 1994). The books by Newton and his students draw upon thousands of transcripts of people who, under hypnotic regression, have re-experienced being between lives. From the higher perspective of their soul they are able to explain what happens after death and before birth. This includes information about the levels of consciousness through which reincarnating souls evolve.

What Newton and others have discovered is that souls between lives exist in light-form, and that each soul emanates a particular colour of the spectrum which indicates its current level of consciousness. The spectrum begins at white (all colours) but then goes through red, yellow, green, blue, to deep purple and violet. From low frequency to high frequency. The least evolved souls the newbies have a pinkish hue. The oldest souls those nearing the end of the whole reincarnational cycle have a blueish hue. Although the spectrum is a continuum, Dr. Newton has found that it can be divided into five distinct stages or levels of evolvement, from Level I to Level V. These can be mapped onto the five stages given in the Michael teachings, from Infant soul to Old soul.

So, for example, souls in the middle (or third) stage of reincarnation are referred to as Young souls in the Michael teachings and they are at what Newton would call Level III. They will have a yellowish or golden hue. (As an aside, both Newton and the Michael entity also identify higher levels of soul evolution which do not involve reincarnation.) The stages of reincarnation (or soul age) can also be likened to the stages of metamorphosis we see in nature, such as egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, butterfly. In reincarnation, though, what changes is not the physical form but the mode of consciousness, especially the form of self-awareness and as a result the way of relating to others.

Soul age and personality

Soul age will affect how a personality comes across in certain ways.

1. Infant souls focus on immediate survival needs. They flourish in simple environments close to nature, such as remote tribes or rural, pastoral settings. In the context of modern society, however, they can come across as uncivilised simpletons or yokels, and may even be deemed to be psychopathic or have some sort of developmental disorder. Psychologically, they are naive, impulsive and pre-conventional, acting on impulse or habit with little or no thought for consequences. Because they lack both social understanding and self-inhibition, they are capable of committing antisocial or immoral acts without any sense of wrongdoing. As such, they do not fit well within modern society and may end up in prison or in psychiatric units. While infant souls may lack the moral principles, social graces and cultural understanding of older souls, they are in a sense completely innocent, being without pretense or agenda. [Well-known example: Fred West, serial killer]

2. Baby souls, in contrast to Infant souls, think a great deal about their actions. Their lives are about safety, security, structure and order rigidly so. Both their beliefs and their actions are largely rule-bound, so they are often ultra-conservative, traditionalist, orthodox, upright, moralistic, religiously devout, and mindful of law and order. That said, they will occasionally give in to temptation, or temper tantrum, and break the rules themselves but then might find themselves tortured with guilt and shame. They come across to older souls as rather square conscientious, conventional, conformist. Baby soul communities tend to be highly principled and civilised (think of the Amish). They are acutely aware of the rights and wrongs of peoples actions, including their own, though they have little insight into the motives behind them. Bad behaviour is sinful, and thats that. [Well-known example: Jimmy Swaggart]

3. Young souls tend to be extravert, outward-bound, worldly, frenetically energetic, brash, competitive, political, ambitious and individualistic. They are more ego-driven than personalities at any other soul age, keen to prove themselves in the world at large. They like to think for themselves, assert their own opinions, and follow their own agenda, with a certainty that their own way is by far the best way. They are generally attracted to some form of worldly success fame, fortune, power, glory. In fact, they

are more fearful of death than souls at other stages, and those who arent sure about life after death may be anxious to make a big impact on the world stage to create some kind of symbolic immortality for themselves. Young souls are acutely aware of their own goals and intentions but do not really question them. [Well-known example: Napolon Bonaparte.]

4. Mature souls tend to be thoughtful, reflective and sincere within themselves, and sensitive and empathetic towards others. Psychologically, their awareness is no longer egocentric (in the sense of being limited to a single perspective), but capable of accommodating multiple perspectives. In fact, the self-serving ego comes to be seen as a problem, something to be overcome though in reality it is more a case of incorporating it into a broader level of awareness. This tension between ego and egotranscendence, or between having both a personal agenda and a desire to be more open and authentic, makes life much more complicated sometimes overwhelmingly so. On the one hand, mature souls reject narrow-minded values. Yet on the other hand, they can empathise with whoever holds those same values. Fixed opinions are replaced by a sense of ever-shifting perspectives It all depends on how you look at it. This disappearance of solid ground kicks off a search for deeper meaning and selfunderstanding whether through art, psychology, philosophy or spirituality. Politically, mature souls tend to be liberal and inclusive, and disapprove of any kind of narrow chauvinism. To younger souls, they can come across as bleeding-heart liberals. They tend to question everything, including their own motives, and are prone to do a lot of soul-searching (literally). [Well known example: Barack Obama.]

5. OId souls tend to exude some degree of depth, gravitas or wisdom that is quite unmistakable. Having moved beyond the conflicts of the mature soul, they are also lighter and have a sense of joyous freedom the freedom to enjoy being very much in the world, but not of it. They are relatively calm, measured, untroubled and stable, unattached to social structures and cultural expectations, being sure of their own existence and inner strengths and their compassion for others. Their focus is on true self-expression and fulfillment, consciously participating in the evolution of all-that-is. As such, they tend to go their own unique way in life, letting go and letting be, in a detached way that may seem very weird and eccentric to younger souls. Late-stage old souls often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion. [Well-known example: Osho] Note: These descriptions emphasise the differences between stages. In reality, though, there is a gradual blend from one stage to the next. A person at the start of the Mature stage, for example, will act mostly like a Young soul but with elements of Mature soul nature beginning to emerge.

The lessons of each stage

Here are the five stages of soul evolution through human reincarnation, together with the typical learning experiences associated with each stage:

So we begin reincarnating as Infant souls, complete novices at physical existence. At this first stage we are largely in a state of incompetence and terror, frankly. But through experiences and choices we learn and grow. We steadily progress from being Infant souls to Baby souls to Young souls to Mature souls. Finally, we enter the fifth stage as accomplished Old souls, the experts of human existence. As infant souls we learned about choices having to do with survival, as baby souls choices having to do with moral codes and ethics, as young souls choices having to do with mastery of achievement, as mature souls choices having to do with relationships, and as old souls choices having to do with the nature of oneness with the Tao. An infant soul would therefore not understand the choices of an old soul although an older soul would likely have more understanding of the nature of younger soul choice having had them.

Michael, via Victoria Marina To look at each stage in more detail see: Stage 1. The Infant Soul Stage 2. The Baby Soul Stage 3. The Young Soul Stage 4. The Mature Soul Stage 5. The Old Soul

Soul levels in the human population

The six or seven billion people on the planet span the whole range of stages, but the average is said to be somewhere just past the mid-point of stage 3 (see chart below). In other words, this world is currently dominated by Young souls whose primary focus is competitive self-advancement.

The seven steps within each stage

Within each stage there are seven discrete steps to go through. In the Michael teachings, they are called levels, so in each stage we proceed from 1st level to 7th level. Calling these levels can be a bit confusing (since Newton refers to the five major stages as levels), so I sometimes prefer to call them steps. So each stage of reincarnation has seven distinct learning steps. For example, we begin the whole journey at step 1 as Infant souls, learn that lesson, then undertake step 2 as Infant souls, and so on. On completing the 7th step of the Infant stage, we then begin the 1st step of the Baby stage.

The early steps in any stage are about experiencing life at this new stage of evolution, learning the essential lessons through appropriate experiences. The later steps are about expressing those lessons, demonstrating this level of consciousness in action. For example, in the Young soul stage, the first three steps from 1st level Young soul to 3rd level Young soul are about discovering the meaning of free will and self-determination; the last three steps 5th level Young soul to 7th level Young soul are about demonstrating the meaning of free

will and self-determination in action. (The middle step 4th level Young soul is about consolidating the lessons learned.) The first step or level of any stage is like putting a toe in the water; the final step is like teaching others how to swim:
1st Level 2nd Level 3rd Level 4th Level 5th Level 6th Level 7th Level Initiation into the new stage. Toe in the water. First glimpses of the new consciousness. Building foundations. Wading in and out. Compare and contrast the old and new consciousness. Taking the plunge. Letting go of the prior stage. Actively exploring the new consciousness. Relaxing into it, enjoying the water. Identification with this stage. Internal integration of the new consciousness. Splashing about. Look at me! Going public with it. Expressing this level of consciousness. Responsible swimming. Burning off any karma incurred. Harmonisation ones consciousness with others. Mastery of consciousness at this level. Role model. Peak performance. Whats next?

This sequence of seven steps is repeated through each stage, making 35 steps in all from the beginning of reincarnation to the end. In case youre wondering, Im at the 5th level of the Mature soul stage. My lifes lesson is about expressing my current stage of consciousness (multi-perpective, ego-transcending). To give some other examples of who is where (NOTE I have cobbled these together from various sources whom I think are reliable, though I cannot vouch for total accuracy):

BABYSOULS
1st Level 2nd Level 3rd Level 4th Level 5th Level 6th Level 7th Level (There arent very many famous early baby souls.) Adolf Hitler Dick Cheney, Ayatollah Khomeini Richard Nixon, Jerry Falwell, Sarah Palin [or possibly 1st-level Young]

YOUNGSOULS
1st Level 2nd Level 3rd Level 4th Level 5th Level 6th Level 7th Level Jim Bakker, Tammy Fae Bakker Niccol Machiavelli, Henry IV (King of England) George W. Bush, John Calvin, Ivan IV, The Terrible (Tsar of Russia) Ronald Reagan, Catherine the Great (Empress of Russia), St. Dominic, Hector Berlioz, George Frideric Handel, Frdric Chopin Hillary Clinton, Silvestre Reyes (US Senator) Oliver Cromwell, Charles I (King of England), Claudius (Emperor of Rome), Robert Ballard (oceanographer), Susan B Anthony (19C feminist) Jon Stewart, Aleister Crowley, Peter the Great (Emperor of Russia), John Glenn (astronaut)

MATURESOULS
1st Level 2nd Level 3rd Level Joseph Lieberman, Elizabeth Cady Stanton (19C feminist) John Lennon, Princess Diana, Tzu-Hsi (last Empress of China) W. A. Mozart, Desmond Tutu, Dale Carnegie

From here on, the the arts and philosophy frequently serve as vehicles for soul-searching and self-examination as souls proceed through the Mature stage. 4th Level Michelle Obama, Stephen Colbert, Modest Mussorgsky, Richard Wagner, Jean Sibelius, Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Giuseppe Verdi, Vincent van Gogh, Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres, Michelangelo, Miguel de Cervantes, W.B. Yeats, Rumi, Leonard Cohen, T.S. Eliot, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Virginia Woolf, Anas Nin, Victor Hugo, Anne Rice, Plato, Michel Foucoult, Bertrand Russell, Immanuel Kant Michael Jackson, Tina Turner, Gen. Wesley Clark, Joni Mitchell, Sandro Botticelli, Sergei Prokofiev, Giacomo Puccini, Louis XIV (King of France), Charles II (King of England), Richard III (King of England), William Shakespeare, Sam Neill, Eugene McCarthy, barry Prince William, Francisco de Goya, Pope Paul VI, Joseph Merrick (the Elephant Man), Anwar Sadat, Dag Hammarskjld, Franklin D. Roosevelt Judi Dench, Andrew Cohen, Rachel Maddow, Ralph Nader, Jacques Cousteau, Gioachino Rossini, Jacques Luis David, Victor Frankl, Monty Roberts (horse whisperer) Barack Obama has been variously given as 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th level Mature.

5th Level

6th Level 7th Level

OLDSOULS
The arts continue to attract Old souls in the early levels, but there is a growing emphasis on discovering ones path to selfactualisation and self-transcendence as an individual expression of something greater. 1st Level 2nd Level 3rd Level 4th Level 5th Level 6th Level 7th Level Christian Slater, Tommy Lee Jones, Gene Hackman, Carlos Castaneda, Andrew Weil, Igor Stravinsky, Robert A. Heinlein Whoopie Goldberg, Don Beck, Robert Redford, Eric Clapton, Robin Williams, James Taylor, J.S. Bach, Lorenzo deMedici Harrison Ford, Arthur C. Clarke, Ludwig van Beethoven, Clare Graves Ken Wilber, Paul Gauguin, Walt Whitman, William Blake, Mark Twain, Alice Walker, Pema Chodron Carl Jung, Leonardo da Vinci, Ken Keyes, Pope John XXIII Alice Miller, Thich Nhat Hanh, Krishnamurti, Gangaji, Ammachi John Muir, Don Juan Matus, Ramana Maharshi, Anandamayima, Neem Karoli Baba

From here, the expression of spiritual connectedness becomes more central and more explicit.

Many lives
So, we start our evolutionary journey at level 1 of stage I (as 1st Level Infant souls) and end it at level 7 of stage 5 (as 7th Level Old souls). There are 35 steps in all. And each single step requires at least one lifetime to complete. A single step can be done in one lifetime but often thats too big a stretch, so an initial life may undertaken as a taster, followed by one or two more which really go for it. Sometimes a life is interrupted, and the soul will just have to start over in the next life. Also, some lives are undertaken for reasons other than the specific intent to develop. For example, one lifetime might be undertaken primarily to assist another soul in their development. And some lives are taken on primarily for the death experience, for karmic reasons. These can be very short, of the order of days, weeks or months. Taking into account all the gaps spent in the non-physical state between lives, a single step is typically accomplished in about 100-300 years of Earth time. The whole journey of 35 steps usually takes well over 100 lifetimes. Hence, the whole journey is likely to take of the order of 7,000-8,000 years, but possibly a lot more if the population is low and opportunities to incarnate are few.

Questions and Answers

Coming back again and again sounds dreadful. Why dont we just give up and be done with it? Cant I just decide that this is my last time? You cannot skip any of the steps, nor would you want to (from the souls perspective). You wouldnt rent a movie but then skip to the final credits just to avoid the whole process of sitting through the movie. In fact, its more like a computer game. You are playing the game because you want to, and at some level you actually love it. And you know perfectly that you need to master one level before you can move on to the next level. Thats what the game is all about. Who says? Theres no tyrannical deity controlling the game, forcing you to keep at it, deciding who gets to graduate and who doesnt. Its just the natural dynamic of life and the evolution of consciousness. A tadpole cannot suddenly transform into a full-grown frog. A baby human cannot suddenly take on a professional career or family responsibilities. Theres a natural, inevitable sequence to go through. And weve all signed up for it. But why? Whats it all about? Well, at the level of spirit or essence, all is one, all is love, all is joy. This is all very nice, but consciousness longs to experience more and more of what there is to experience, the utter richness and fullness of life. How does it do that? By fragmenting into zillions of conscious entities, each of whom has its own experiences and perspective, and each of whom can make its own choices about what to experience. Any soul can choose to continue being submerged in all-that-is, albeit with little sense of self. Alternatively, any soul can choose to undergo the experience of life in a separate physical form, interacting with other souls in their own physical forms. This is the ultimate way to experience oneself as a self. And thats why we are here?

We have all made this choice: to use the human form as a vehicle to help us become more conscious of ourselves as the amazing beings we are. The aim is to experience every possible experience that enables us to emerge more and more consciously and fearlessly as ourselves. We begin as helpless infants for whom the experience of separate existence is quite terrifying. But we end as autonomous, self-realised beings for whom human existence is the most amazing way of being, feeling joyful and free and sharing love with the whole of life.

See also:

10 things everyone should know about reincarnation

PersonalitySpirituality.net

67 Responses to Reincarnation: the 35 steps of soul evolution

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1Ginger24 Aug 2009 at 10:54 pm AGAIN BEAUTIFUL!! WELL DONE ! TYVM NAMASTE Reply

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2Kimberanne24 Aug 2009 at 11:17 pm Fascinating. Im just starting to read the Michael teachings and find this to be a great resource. Thank you for putting this together. Reply

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3wondering8428 Sep 2009 at 11:56 am How do we know for sure at what level we are? Reply

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4- barry -28 Sep 2009 at 1:38 pm Good question, Tobar. I dont think we can know for sure while incarnate. Its more a matter of observing or asking and then self-validating. Its relatively easy to get the major stage (infant-baby-young-mature-old) but the specific level within that is pretty subtle. I was initially told that I was an old soul, which flattered my ego but I had to be honest with myself it didnt fit. I have too much inner turmoil. I knew I couldnt be infant, baby or young because I had too much self-awareness and empathy for others. I am not lost in a false persona, and I am very sensitive to how others feel and perceive. The issues I struggle with on a daily basis are classic mature soul issues how to by myself while relating to others, knowing how others feel etc. I have old soul peaks every now and then, where I can be very calm, detached and wise, but my centre of gravity is very much mature soul. Eventually I tracked down a reliable channel, Sarah Chambers (known in the books as Jessica Lansing). I was told that I was a 5th-level mature soul. This came as a surprise as 5th level is sort of expressive, whereas Id always experienced myself as a typically introverted scholar. However, I was in my 30s at the time only just approaching the mid-life transition at which the true personality seeks expression. Sure enough, over the last 10+ years I have been through a process of discovering my true voice. I have intuited my lifes purpose as Finding something worth saying about life, and saying it to those who have ears to listen. This fits very neatly as a typical 5th level focus. Reply

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5La Quishia N.29 Apr 2010 at 9:26 am Hm I dont know myself well enough to figure it out to the specific level. But I definitely know Im a mature one. Level 6 sounds like where I am now, but I dont feel the previous levels have been developed given my family history. Hopefully this will become clearer in another 10 or so years (ugh!) or sooner. Im still young (22). Reply

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6barry29 Apr 2010 at 10:55 am Yeah, things gradually become clearer as you get past 35 or so. Before that, we are steeped in an artificial identity, which is partly what weve been conditioned into by society/culture/peers and partly what weve constructed in the process of becoming an adult. But then along comes the 4th Internal Monad the crisis point where you strive to out-grow your artificial identity and realise your true identity, which can be quite a hideous time. But the outcome is a much clearer sense of who you are and what you are about. - barry Reply

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7LEARNER/TEACHER06 May 2010 at 12:46 pm You know what -barry- i do agree with you, people you will know when your at the level of accomplishment you will feel it in your heart. The truth is found within your mind and spirit. If you can understand what the heart is telling you, your mind is there to help you remember right from wrong. The mind and spirit are a team once you got them workin together, you have reached greatness. Remember brothers and sisters dont let yourselves down its part of the test, dont let anything or anyone throw you off course, its part of your test also. Being open minded and not letting the things that dont make sense get to you is where your test gets difficult. Like i said stay on course and beaware of your surroundings at all time they are there for a reason and share your knowledge its healthy for your mind. Dont deprive your mind from its needs its crucial for the soul. The brain is your friend dont be afraid of it, Socializing and sharing your knowledge with all who is around you, i guarantee you they will share theres back with you even if they have a different opinion about it, debating is useless if it causes negativity. If you understand your heart you will learn how to balance yourself with using a right amount of positive energy. Remember everybody we are all here for a reason, learn from what your taught, and teach what you know. Dont overwhelm yourself, take your time thats why it takes a lifetime. Reply

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8D J Wray04 Aug 2010 at 4:34 am Some of the more skeptical readers will be tempted to ask questions like How did all of this begin?, How will it end and what will happen to my soul?, How does this relate to our universe?, Is there a God?, Why is there so much suffering on earth?, How do I leave earth?, Why arent all highly-experienced hypnotherapists (not just a select group which includes the entity known as Michael) privy to this knowledge?, What about physical evolution?, What about science vs religion?, Is there a heaven?, How does my soul contribute to my human consciousness?, What exactly is human consciousness?, Why did I make such a bad choice when I chose this vehicle and/or this planet?, How

exactly does reincarnation work? etc, etc. I might seem like a skeptic but I prefer to think of myself as a realist and to convince realists, a lot of information has to be produced. Specifically, the kind of information that a worthy soul should be aware of. Reply

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9alex11 Oct 2010 at 2:42 pm interesting article! i know that worldy logic is not a basis for questions on spiritual topics, but: what is the explanation for 1 infant soul turning into 20 young souls, in terms of quantity?? Reply

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10barry11 Oct 2010 at 2:45 pm Er, I dont get the question. Where have you got the idea that 1 soul turns into many? Reply

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11alex11 Oct 2010 at 6:46 pm maybe i used the wrong wordsi meant: how can 1 soul GROW UP to be ~20 or 30 soulsits actually not about a precise number. just take a real diagram of age structure (as in the link below). i am referring to the diagram in the middle of the page. how can the infant souls (which actually have the amount=0) in the beginning, grow up to be the big amount of young souls? or, in other words: where do all these dominating young souls come from, if they werent infant souls beforehand? i have to admit, i dont know too much about this topic yet. but could you point out something in your explanation that i possibly got wrong? age structure: http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfruf/images/bio3002/popage4.gif Reply

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12barry11 Oct 2010 at 7:06 pm Ah, perhaps you havent got the meaning of infant, young etc in this context. An infant soul isnt a person in infancy; its a soul in the earliest stage of its own evolution in consciousness a process that takes thousands of years of reincarnation. Each young soul was indeed an infant soul at one point, and will eventually become an old soul.

The age of a soul has nothing to do with the physical age of the person. A 40 year old person could be an infant soul while a newborn baby could be an old soul. Does this make sense? Reply

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13Goo bear27 Oct 2010 at 1:26 am Im 20 years old going on twenty and reading about soul ages has really helped me understands the way i live my life. I know i am young and dont have mush experience yet but reading this article i think i may be an Old Soul around stage 4. Everything this article has said about Old Souls has reflected me nearly %100. I would one day like to go to a spiritualist and see what the truth is Reply

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14Anthony04 Nov 2010 at 9:38 am So after reading all of this, and the comments, I have to ask a simple question, or what I find to be a simple question. After completing all stages from infant to Old soul,what happens? Do we reset and revert back to an infant soul, but with better and/or odds and/or chances to more quickly evolve,or do we become another type of Light or soul, mabye even on another dimension of being, or start to inhabit a higher level of physical and intellectual beings? So much questions, so much to learn. Thats some Artisan stimulation seeking right there. Reply

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15barry04 Nov 2010 at 10:10 am Hi Anthony My understanding from the Michael teachings is that we keep going through another two stages beyond that of the old soul (which is the fifth stage). The sixth stage would be as guides on the astral, working together with our closer soul-mates. The seventh and final stage would be as a re-integrated collective consciousness, a causal body, comprising all souls from our larger grouping of origin, or what Michael calls entity. Michael is one example of this stage, being in fact an integrated entity consisting of 1,050 Warriors and Kings. By the end of that stage, we are effectively at one with the creative power of the universe (God if you like), and individuality while it remains in some sense is no longer a concern. But from what I can gather, we are free to choose to undergo the whole cycle again as we did this time for the sheer thrill of it! That would be in a whole new species, however. Or, as you say, maybe on another (less demanding) dimension. The idea of having better odds to evolve more quickly gives the impression that evolving quickly has some sort of merit, but this is not the case. The eternal universe doesnt really care how quickly or slowly any soul gets from stage A to stage B life is all about the process, not the end goal. This is where I really think the Integral / Evolutionary Enlightenment camp (Andrew Cohen etc) are barking up the wrong tree. The idea that there is some

urgent need to evolve now springs entirely from human fears and misconceptions, and has no meaning from the point of view of spirit. - barry Reply

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16Nick Nash18 Nov 2010 at 11:24 pm This was excellent and definitely resonated strongly with me as coming from Michael. Great insight here that Ill be sharing with my listeners this weekend. Ive been focusing on a series of shows under an umbrella I called Signs of the End Times and this weekend, I have been urged to do 3 shows centering on the journey of the soul so this is excellent info for my listeners and for me. I found this quite fascinating. Thank you for taking the time to write and post. Blessings, Nick Reply

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17barry18 Nov 2010 at 11:26 pm Many thanks, Nick. - barry Reply

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18mgrinnell25 Dec 2010 at 8:31 am Can you locate the words to describe how souls can incarnate into any period or time. Ive been told that our concept of time is linear, due to our minds and how they function, but for the soul it functions differently. That there is no past and future, and that all is happening simultaneously Confusing, and I am wondering if someone can put it into some sort of mind-friendly wording. thanks Matt Reply

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19barry28 Dec 2010 at 9:45 am If I understand correctly, you are asking about the possibility of incarnating out of sequence into any time period, say from 20th century Europe in one life to 1st century China in the next. I have seen this alluded to a couple of time, but I suspect I cannot claim to know for sure that this is a misinterpretation of something else. Either that, or I just cannot get my head around the idea of infinite parallel universes. The very idea of non-linear incarnation is so counterintuitive it makes my (linear) brain hurt, so maybe Im biased, but here is my take on things.

As far as I understand it, while souls (between lives) do not experience time as we do in physical life they just exist in the eternal now they do nevertheless experience a flow from before to after from where their consciousness has been to where their consciousness is going. In other words, they experience the path of their own evolution. In addition, souls can also perceive and scrutinise the entire tapestry of history on the physical plane. (I have read about souls going to special temples or libraries to do so.) The tapestry is a visual metaphor. It consists of interweaving threads which represent our individual paths of evolution through incarnation, showing both our collective past and our collective (but potential) future. The past is that which has actually been experienced, both individually and collectively. The tapestry of the past has been woven already, determined by the choices we made while incarnate. This part of the tapestry is crystallised, set in stone. The future is that which may yet be experienced; it is fluid, expanding. The threads have many offshoots going in different directions. Different weaves are possible. The future is all the many diverging paths we can choose from here on given what we have already chosen. Souls can see the fixed path of the past plus all the side-paths, what could have been had different choices been made. They can also tune in and experience any part of the past ones own path, anothers path, or even a lost path that wasnt chosen without actually being incarnate, just as we can play a video game and experience flying an aeroplane without actually flying an aeroplane. For example, you could tune in to a certain life in 1st century China and relive any part of it, or experience what it would have been like if different choices had been made not to have committed that murder or whatever. But this is not the same as actually incarnating, which is a whole different project. The tapestry of the future is not the same as the past visually, it looks more like fractals fanning out infinitely as the threads separate into alternative paths which have yet to be chosen. Possibilities leading to possibilities leading to possibilities Again, the soul could inhabit any path to experience it first hand, but again this is like flying a simulator as opposed to flying an actual aeroplane. Incarnation itself is bound by the limitations of the physical plane and by the fact that every choice is interwoven with every other choice in the universe. We cannot die in the 20th century and then reincarnate in the 1st century because it could mess up every choice made by every other being between those time periods. Imagine the chaos what if I die today but decide I want to reincarnate 100 years ago so that when Im in my twenties I can go and kill young Adolf Hitler? Now imagine all of us being free to affect history in that way, even in very small ways. I think we would spend our whole time going back to rerun past events in different ways! Of course its possible that this is exactly what happens if there are infinite parallel universes. Ow, that hurts! - barry Reply

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20mgrin12 Jan 2011 at 3:45 am

thanks, that was actually helpful. I feel that a part of working with our own minds is accepting a perspective that works for us at the moment, even if there is a subtle suspicion there is more to the story. For me, the

pure logic of the world as is, the physical one we inhabit here, is akin to the impossibility of a seed falling from a tree and recreating the orchard from which sprang the tree he fell from. The earth is doing its lower frequency thing, and before and after in reference to personal evolution makes a lot more sense than, well, time. Anyway. Imagining, inhabiting in the sense of a thought form or dream, sensing with complete clarity another before or previous time period, is, in my current thinking, akin to me personally revisiting a memory in my own life from a new perspective, fed by experience and growth. I can accept the notion that it is not possible to reincarnate in the past, and allow this to be my perspective at the moment. Subject to change and re-examination, after experience. It simply does not hurt my head so much. ow is right. soon. Matt Reply

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21Koen27 Jan 2011 at 7:46 pm Hello Barry, This is very interesting information here on your site.. But there are still so many questions I deal with and I still have a lot to learn. During my spiritual development Ive met some special people. A guru once said me that Im a very old soul and that this is my last life as an old soul. Ive studied this subject and have a lot of knowledge about it now. My big question is; whats next? Ive heard about transcedent souls but I cant find much about this subject. What do you know about transcedent souls? Koen Reply

0. Hi Koen

22barry27 Jan 2011 at 8:26 pm

Thanks for getting in touch. Have you read my article on the Old Soul? It gives a bit of information about what happens during and after the last life there. After our last incarnation we move into the sixth stage of our evolvement, located (I believe) in the upper Astral plane. The sixth stage, as I currently understand it, is mostly about the emotional side of our being emotional challenges, growth and integration, the expansion of love both within and between souls. We get together with our intimate soul groups, share experiences, merge in consciousness, blend with love.

There is also much opportunity to teach and guide those still incarnating. Most of the individual spirit guides or ascended masters who are channelled by mediums are souls at this stage, lovingly expressing wisdom. (There are also higher sources, such as Michael and Seth, which are integrated large group formations going through the seventh stage on the Casual plane. These have a different approach to teaching very dry and intellectual broadcasts, compared to the more intimate and mushy approach of the Astral souls!) During the sixth stage, there is no need or desire to be physical again, unless we choose to for some special purpose i.e. to help others who may be getting a bit stuck to move along. Moses, Confucius, Mohammed, Gandhi are said to be examples. Their mission in each case was to inspire unruly groups of mostly baby souls to find a way to live together peacefully by providing laws, establishing virtuous principles to live by, and setting a good example. barry Reply

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23mg13 Apr 2011 at 12:55 pm I had a psychic tell me the same thing in the mid-90s, that I was on my last lifetime. Messed me up for many years. Its strange to read that someone told you the same thing. Perhaps it is a man or woman too consumed by the idea of being a guru, and confusing their idea of who they are with who the person is they are talking to. Perhaps it is a thing to say. Perhaps it is true for you. I suspect youd be completely clear if this were the case, that this is the case. I never was clear, but felt a lot of fear that it meant I had to do or be something. Had the affect of putting a tremendous amount of pressure on my by me. How much better to believe we are just like everyone else. Sometimes. Reply

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24barry13 Apr 2011 at 2:12 pm Yes, it strikes me that an easy way for a teacher/guru to attract followers is to flatter peoples spiritual egos. Most seekers would love to consider themselves more advanced or enlightened than the common herd. I know I did, for a while. My first reading from a (dubious) Michael channel described me as an Old Priest at first I was flattered, but I knew it didnt really chime. My next reading, from a very reliable channel, got me as a Mature Scholar, and I have no doubts whatsoever about that. Its really important to try and self-validate anything were told by outsiders, especially something so profound as the evolutionary state of your soul. Reply

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25gargi09 Apr 2011 at 6:26 am One astrologer told me that i am an old soul. I was not familiar with this stages. After going through your article i could know about it. It will be very helpful if you clear my doubts that does this one step/level out of seven steps of each stage takes one life each, i.e., 7 lives for 7 steps and to achieve the ultimate stage we have to pass through 35 lives? And after completeing this 35 steps,i.e.,five stages one will achieve Moksha? Would the person have not need to take birth further?

Reply

0. Hi gargi

26barry09 Apr 2011 at 7:02 am

It takes at least one lifetime to complete a single step usually 3 or 4 or more. So the overall process of 35 steps takes over 100 lives, typically. On completion of the fifth stage, as a 7th-level Old soul, you have indeed reached the end of rebirth. But that does not mean that you have achieved freedom or liberation from the wheel, exactly, because you were always free and you have re-experienced that freedom between all of your lives. Rather, it is simply that physical separation no longer has anything to give you in terms of evolving, just as there is no reason to go back to school once youve graduated. See my page on the Old soul stage for further information. I hope this helps! barry Reply

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27Amit09 Apr 2011 at 10:08 pm Wow must say that this post is very insightful and in fact has a very practical approach! I have a few questions that have been bothering my mind for quite sometime now. I will start of with a few: As you mentioned somewhere in there that .the super consciousness fragments into zillions of conscious entities, each of which have its own experiences and perspective, and each of which can make its own choices about what to experience. 1) Are these fragments only of infant soul form or is there something else. 2) Do infant souls kick start with a human body by default or can an infant soul start of with a non human body may be of an animal or plant or a virus maybe? In fact there are people who believe that the soul starts its journey from the simplest of life forms and then gradually moves up the evolution ladder where it finds a human body at top and keeps evolving thus forward. 3) to the best I can analyze even animals do seem to have a soul and consciousness but prolly their consciousness is underdeveloped as compared to humans and they behave mostly on instincts. Humans on the other hand behave as per instincts as well as their conscious judgment that eventually develops their karmic cycle and reincarnation options. But common sense would say that in animal kingdom its luckier to be born as a lion in the jungle, or as an eagle in the skies, or a shark in the ocean for that matter. Even within animal species there is variance, like a dog is born on the street and another in a rich mans house. So if animals are driven by instincts how can they have a karmic cycle, and if they dont have one then why a more fitting animal body for some? Reply

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28barry10 Apr 2011 at 7:09 am

Hi Amit To address your questions: 1) All souls begin at the beginning, as 1st-level Infant souls, just as all newly-born creatures begin as infants. If a soul group elects to embark on the journey of evolving through reincarnation, all souls within that group will start incarnating as 1st-level Infant souls. 2) Consciousness as a whole does evolve through the pre-human levels (matter > plant > animal), but at those levels there are not souls as such, i.e. not individualised spirits with self-awareness able to make choices. Rather, there are masses of low-level consciousness. Evolving souls like you and me need bodies of a certain type (independently mobile) and with a complex brain able to support rational choices. It would not serve a soul, even an Infant soul, to incarnate into a blade of grass or in the body of a snake, because the vehicle is far too limited for what the soul is trying to achieve (evolving through choices). On this planet, there are two options for individualised souls to evolve through reincarnation: humans and cetaceans (i.e. whales and dolphins, of which there are many species). 3) Yes. Each species of non-ensouled animal is said to have a collective consciousness known as a hive soul. Such consciousness has yet to evolve into the individualised soul form which we have. Karma does not apply to animal spirits because they are incapable of making rational choices karma is a factor for individualised souls only. Referring to one kind of physical life or body as lucky compared to another is meaningless from a spiritual perspective. A human mind imagines that being the predator at the top of the food chain is better than being its lowly prey, or that living in a luxury house is better than living on the streets, but thats just how human minds think. Animals dont think like that of course, and spirit or consciousness sees as much goodness and value and love in being a vulnerable gazelle as in being a hungry lion. It isnt better to be predator rather than prey, or to be sheltered rather than unsheltered. Comfort in an animals life is not a karmic reward, and lack of it is not a karmic punishment. Its all just part of the mix that consciousness longs to experience. I hope this answers your questions, but feel free to ask more! - barry Reply

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29Amit10 Apr 2011 at 8:32 am hi thanks for the reply. Yes more or less I am getting the feel of what you have explained here, but I have two doubts. 1) I couldnt understand the phraseOn this planet, there are two options for individualised souls to evolve through reincarnation: humans and cetaceans (i.e. whales and dolphins, of which there are many species). 2) as you said.Each species of non-ensouled animal is said to have a collective consciousness known as a hive soul. Such consciousness has yet to evolve into the individualised soul form which we have. from the evolution of an infant soul into a baby soul and eventually into an older soul with individual consciouness and decission making choices is falling pretty much in place.

However I am not being able to understand what is the origin of the hive soul? where is it coming from. also how does it initiates its journey into the individuilised soul form that we have when it doesnt have self-awareness nor is able to make choices. Reply

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30barry10 Apr 2011 at 12:55 pm 1) Humans are not the only species on Earth with individual ensoulment. All whales and dolphins are also reincnarnating souls with conscious individual personalities. A certain humpback whale, for example, could be a 3rd level Mature Priest with a Goal of Acceptance. Generally, the souls incarnating as cetaceans stick to those species while those incarnating as humans stick to this species. I believe it is possible to cross species, if you fancy the experience, but I guess someone who is used to being a human would be pretty inept at being a whale or dolphin. 2) Consciousness evolves through increasing levels of organizational complexity, from inanimate matter to cellular life, plant life, animal life to sentient species. It begins at the Source as one, and gradually, through stages, condenses into many sparks of consciousness, like water from the ocean evaporating and then turning into snowflakes. At each level there is more differentiation (less of a uniform blob) and more dynamics than at the previous level. At the level of inanimate matter, consciousness is extremely simple barely recognisable as such. At the cellular and plant levels, it is more like being in a coma or deep sleep, a bit more dynamic and more differentiated than at the inanimate level, having to manage its own energy and grow and reproduce, but still pretty much automatic. At the animal level there is now a loose network of simple conscious beings having independent movement but still lacking real individuality. For any given species, this loose network is described as a hive soul. For example, the hive soul for cows consists of all the beings currently incarnating as cows. The animal level of consciousness is not what we would recognise as human consciousness its too simple, more like us in a dreaming state. But at some point in the higher mammals such as lions, bears, elephants and so on there emerges enough of a seed of individuality for the next stage to come about the beings in a hive soul eventually organise themselves into a fixed group that is ready to begin the human journey. Just as in physical terms, animals evolved from plants which evolved from simple cells which evolved from inanimate matter, there is a corresponding path of evolution for consciousness. Complex consciousness gradually evolves out of simple consciousness. Complex means separated out into many types and parts, the most complex being that of ensouled species like human beings who then evolve through the five stages of reincarnation. This evolutionary process is going on, repeating itself, the whole time. There is always new consciousness emerging into matter, as well as old consciousness finishing off its reincarnation process. - barry Reply

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31Amit10 Apr 2011 at 1:44 pm

Wow, much clearer now about my douts about the animal kingdom and how they eventually end up getting encapsulated in the soul journeyhowever just a few left overs: 1) As u said that at some point in the higher mammals such as lions, bears, elephants and so on there emerges enough of a seed of individuality .so there apears to be some kind of logic flow among the lower beings when it comes to transmigration of their underdeveloped consciouness, losely to say: matter-> unicellular-> multicellular -> plants -> Animals etc. basically from a less complex to more complex being till the time it can have a soul. but then there are millions of different species in this world with relative complexities. How do these lower consciousnesses determine which plant , virus animal body to go into next amoung all so many types. Is it on a random basis? (cant be I guess given the somewhat sequential nature of evolution) Could it be a Trial and error? or is there a logic flow that nature has devised? 2) you said ..On this planet, there are two options for individualised souls to evolve through reincarnation: humans and cetaceans.. why cetaceans are only exceptions? where are they coming from?Do they have bodies as well equiped and brains/enviroment as complex as human beings to accully give soul enough options to evolve to self realization? how was this exception discovered? Analysis? observation? inference? revelation? or was it some psysic discovery? 3) If these are the only two species to have a soul on earth can there be other places in this wast universe with some other species with a possible soul? If they do, are these inter celestial species interchangable soul wise. 4) Somewhere u said If a soul group elects to embark on the journey of evolving through reincarnation, all souls within that group will start incarnating as 1st-level Infant souls. couldnt capture the concept of soul group. Thanks in advance Reply

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32barry10 Apr 2011 at 2:11 pm 1) I dont know the answer to this one. I would imagine consciousness is attracted to whatever form feels most appropriate at each stage on its journey of unfolding. 2) Cetaceans have the brain complexity to support rational choice. The notion that cetaceans are ensouled as well as humans has been channelled many many times and it fits with many peoples experience of the sentience of whales and dolphins the way you can look into an individual creatures eyes and recognise that there is someone in there looking back at you. A couple of points of interest: 1. Cetaceans bodies are not adapted to physical manipulation of the environment, in the way that ours are. That is the preference of souls undergoing the cetacean route. 2. For cetaceans, the environment is primarily a sonic experience whereas for us it is primarily visual. 3) There are said to be 2 or 3 million in our galaxy alone presumably billions and billions of others throughout the universe. Interchangeability is (I would imagine) possible, but not (I would imagine) a good idea since one who is used to being human would probably be pretty inept at being a giant water-breathing insect or whatever. 4) Consciousness, as I said, first emerges from the Source as a fluid blob in the way that water vapour evaporates from the ocean. Using this analogy, at first you have a swirling mass of droplets (a cloud). As this expands and cools, the droplets form snowflakes crystal structures each uniquely shaped. Similarly, simple conscious beings first emerge as a cloud, if you will, that is very fluid. But through the experiences of plant and animal life, the beings crystallise into a stable organisation, forming definite groupings within groupings. Souls are thus born into stable groups which are held within even larger configurations. There

are numerous souls who are very close to you in your soul configuration, as well as some who are more distant. - barry Reply

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33Amit10 Apr 2011 at 4:40 pm 1) I guess if consciousness is attracted to whatever form feels most appropriate at each stage on its journey of unfoldingthere has to be a set pattern on choice of the appropriateness of the physical medium..assuming in all fainess that the creation is way too systematic in its aproach. but then the lower beings cant really choose, so perhaps creation will reveal the laws sometime when it desires. 2) Cetaceans have the brain complexity to support rational choice. -like? or how unlike highly evolved animal species? the way you can look into an individual creatures eyes and recognise that there is someone in there looking back at you.. -but then ther would be a 100million pet owners who would look into an individual creatures eyes and recognise that there is someone in there looking back at themI guess/ Cetaceans bodies are not adapted to physical manipulation of the environment, in the way that ours are. .. -couldnt understand. For cetaceans, the environment is primarily a sonic experience whereas for us it is primarily visual. -we cant be as sonic as there experience and they cant be as visual as our experience so what brought the notion that they have a soul? 3) Interchangeability is (I would imagine) possible, but not (I would imagine) a good idea since one who is used to being human would probably be pretty inept at being a giant water-breathing insect or whatever. -But then the soul wants to gather as many diffrent experiences as possible to get to self realiazition, so why not be born on a diffrient planet? 4) There are numerous souls who are very close to you in your soul configuration, as well as some who are more distant. - if time doesnt hold in spiritual relm does distance hold? Reply

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34barry10 Apr 2011 at 5:03 pm Every answer breeds more questions, of course, so to manage my energy I want to address only your last question. There is, as you say, no physical time on the astral. But there is emotional distance and emotional closeness. You will have an emotional affinity with the

small cluster of souls with whom you came into being as a soul. You can also form emotional bonds with others and feel emotionally close to them too. - barry Reply

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35Amit10 Apr 2011 at 8:08 pm Damn, dont abandone me like this but plz answer my questions as I promise my next set of questions will be completely belonging to a different relm. but plz answer my above 3 questions first as I have pinned a lot of hope. ;( answer these and I wont ask any of the same relm I promise no matter how much my soul yearns for it. come on plz answer me as its al limportant in my pedigrame! ;( Reply

0. Hi Barry,

36Amit11 Apr 2011 at 2:36 pm

Sorry for the last remarks I guess I went a bit overboard and argumentative hehe hope u didnt mind. I still have a lot to learn from you. As long as I am clear about the overall process of transformation from animal kingdom to human form let me not get too much into intricacies of animal transformation within the animal world. Also I read somewhere that Cetaceans are souls from a different planetary system whose planet got destroyed due to physical manipulation and wanted a body that would limit physical manipulation of the environment to avoid a repeat. I will leave it there. As you said: You will have an emotional affinity with the small cluster of souls with whom you came into being as a soul. 1) Do the souls of the same cluster tend to take birth in close vicinity on earth? 2) Do they form the same family on earth or prolly get into relationships? 3) if not then do they happen to come across each other on earth? 4) If they do is there some gut feeling that is triggered from within at soul level that you have met before or you kind of know that person. 5) On earth some souls might move ahead in their journey due to the choices they make so do they wait for other cluster members at every stop (death) or do they get together in the end of entire journey and stay together? Tx Ps: How old are u by the way if u dont mind telling. Reply

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37barry12 Apr 2011 at 8:02 am

1) They can do, especially in the early stages. 2) There is huge variation in the sorts of relationships that are formed on Earth. You might spend several incarnations together with a team-mate from your small group, but in one life you are the parent while the other is the child, and in the next life you turn it around. The soul gradually experiences all sides of every situation, including every common relationship. 3) You can certainly spend lives where you never meet up with another soul from your close family group. Or you pass them in the street and think, Why do I feel like I know that person? I dont think I know of any in this life from my immediate group, but I know at least one from my wider tribe. 4) Quite often, yes, there is a gut feeling, a resonance or feeling of familiarity. Depends how open-minded the individual is. Someone with no idea about reincarnation might simply feel I really like this person so easy to get along with! 5) On a long-term scale, some souls might move ahead of others in their group. They might choose to keep going or hold back a few lives and wait for their mates I think its just a matter of choice. At the end of the entire journey there is a coming-together and in time any stragglers will simply catch up with the rest. There is no hurry from the perspective of spirit. P.S. I am 49, and I have chronic fatigue which means that half the time I have a flat battery, so my activity levels have to be carefully managed. I love answering questions, but a lot at once can be exhausting! Reply

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38Amit13 Apr 2011 at 9:56 am Opps I understand, I will go slow. just the two: 1) Somewhere I read that.The soul undergoes the full range of meaningful human experiences and choices by reincarnating. so is ther any avalible list of all or most of these possible range or an aprox number? 2) Somewhere u mentioned about karmic reward and karmic punishment. how does that work? Reply

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39barry13 Apr 2011 at 10:32 am 1) Theres a list of classic relationship experiences the soul will experience one side and later experience the other: Teacher/Student; Parent/Child; Leader/Follower; Attacker/Victim; Healer/Healed; Rescuer/Rescued; Hopelessly Loving/Hopelessly Loved; Passionate/Repressed; Dependent/Independent; Pivotal Facilitator/Facilitated; Slovenly/Meticulous; Passive/Aggressive; Adept/Apprentice; Artist/Patron; Deserter/Abandoned; Profligate/Tempered; Innocent/Sophisticate; Promiscuous/Impotent; Master/Slave; Player/Pawn; Defender/Defended; Hidden/Disclosed; Slander/Slandered; Jailer/Prisoner 2) I dont remember mentioning karmic reward or punishment other than to say there is no such thing. There is no-one up there doling out rewards or punishments for what he regards as good/bad behaviour. From the perspective of Spirit, there is no need for cosmic justice because there is no such thing as

cosmic injustice. But there can be a personal sense of injustice which lingers in the emotional body from one life to the next. Karma is really about entanglement. If I do something in physical life that violates your free will, we become entangled. We both feel the lack of emotional equilibrium between us, an emotional imbalance. Between lives, we may be soul buddies and we discuss what happened, but as soon as we take to physical bodies again the emotional imbalance comes to the fore if we bump into each other in the street, you might feel a strange fury towards me and I might have a weird feeling that I owe you something. Its like we have become tied together by a karmic ribbon. The only way to restore equilibrium is to undo the ribbontypically by both of us arranging a future life in which you come to violate my free will in an equivalent way. That way, we both know from experience what it is like to be both the violator and the violated. When karma comes back at you, to the personality it seems like a calamity has struck out of the blue; but the soul knows it has volunteered for it and arranged it. NOTE not all nasty things that happen to people are karmic paybacks there are plenty of new karmic acts being committed as well. So you can never quite tell if, for example, so-and-so was murdered because it was their karma from a past life in which they committed a murder, or because the perpetrator just decided to do it, creating fresh karma for himself and an emotional imbalance with the victim. Reply

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40mg13 Apr 2011 at 1:27 pm The basic idea of karma in this last comment is interesting, though I would suggest or what struck me as odd was the last paragraph where you wrote or because the perpetrator just decided to do it, creating fresh karma for himself. It just doesnt sit with me this idea that something can happen out of the blue for a soul. The idea of a class being the equivalent of a life time, and that each soul signs up for a class, seems an important perspective to use in this context. The soul might embody a position of victim or abused or murdered, and therefore has an opening for this energy, or a weak spot so to speak. This makes more sense to me. A soul is embroiled in a physical experience where what it does not know is what it is learning, including being attacked or murdered even (the body, not the soul), in order to become experienced in this. I usually believe that all that happens in physical life, and that appears random, is actually only perceived this way on the personality level (the body). On the soul level, if there is a murderer and a murdered, it was agreed upon previously on the soul level that this would take place. Perhaps to put more spontaneity into life, by tweaking this perspective a bit the soul enters a life to experience violence to the physical body. The soul is open to this experience. Another soul enters to experience being the perpetrator of violence. There is therefore a charge between the two, a balancing that occurs perhaps randomly, but is also a perfect marriage of the two class lessons. There are a series of lectures at this site: http://www.pathwork.org/lecturesObtainingUnedited.html #18, #21 deal with Free Will and the dark and light spiritual existence. The constant reference in these channeled lectures to the names used in one religion for forces in the world has always been off-putting for me, though it does nothing to diminish the material.

#21, while dealing with Lucifer and God, in those terms, to me is not about this at all. There is a basic point made that if a sort of divine Free Will exists, it would need to allow the free choice to live without any divine connection, without hope or love, etc. If whatever divinity there is in the world imposed itself over what is considered negative or evil then (the article points out) it would not in fact be Free Will at all. It would be the allowance of Free Will to those considered good, and the denial of free will to those considered bad (by whom?). Its an interesting perspective. Im writing about it here because of the clarity and simplicity (in a profound way) of Michaels teachings. The universality of these teachings. However, nothing is off limits to consider, I suppose. Reply

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41barry13 Apr 2011 at 1:59 pm Thanks mg. Im a big fan of the Pathwork teachings (as well as Michael teachings). The Michael teachings do say quite often that the physical plane is the only one in which accidents are possible i.e., unplanned events. I dont disagree that souls will arrange amongst themselves to do the murderer-victim experience, but I think the field is also open for spontaneous acts of free will, including those which harm others. Its possible the would-bevictim soul sees an unplanned act coming (e.g., in the dream state), and decides whether or not to go with it. But thats just my impression I cant claim to know either way. The Conversations With God books are also quite good on the relationship between human free will and Divine Love (i.e. why would a loving God let us come to harm? Because we specifically choose to live in a state in which apparent harm is possible and all choices are automatically respected.) Reply

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42mgrinn14 Apr 2011 at 12:30 am Barrymy only thought reading the 2nd to last paragraph is that the karmic situations forced upon the soul (rather than chosen) like we fall into a darkness because we do not yet bounce back from it, due to our not knowing it completely yet We are consumed by the karmic experience of the lifetime, and for me (this is the notion I had) the aspect of free will is nothing more than the actual LEARNING how to navigate the unlearned things. The free will comes into play by the ability to choose the path that frees the mess. The mess however is not a choice, or a game, it must be something so completely unknown and unexperienced, that the only way to move Free from it is to discover the way out of it. This quite possibly is nothing more Than the lifetime of each of us. The entrance and release from the karma. When there are no more dark places to fall into, we enter them from another level just to see. Perhaps. It is what I thought of while reading. Reply

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43Amit13 Apr 2011 at 10:10 pm 1) Indeed from the divine perspective there in nothing good or bad! But I guess karma is an act of will on the physical plane and not on the spiritual plane. So its consequences have an inherent tendency of being perceived as rewarding or punishable with relation to the physical world. As souls we do devise a life plan before taking a birth on the physical plane but we can not predecide all the actions(karmas) that we take when we land in the physical realm while executing the plan. To the best I understand, the results of karma is generated out of the spontaneous actions in the way of execution of lifes plan with a another factor called maya ( Veil of Ignorance, Advaita Vedanta). Maya having an enchanting but disillusioning effect on the physical being might at times completely disorient him from achieving ones lifes plans. We might get entangled in a flurry of karmas that might have got nothing to do with our plan, triggered by maya . What happens to the karmic balance to all these additional karmas we and up doing? What happens to the result of karmas outside the plan. As for example if Soul A decides to experience being a rapist and another soul B as the raped, then Soul A might have to be born with an inclination of a rapist tendency in physical form. And with that tendency in place what is the guarantee that he would not end up raping several 100 other women who might not have been in the initial plan driven by free will of the body that is unaware of souls plan. And those other women souls who might have come with different plans of their own or might be belonging to different soul groups all together. They might not even be contactable in the soul realm or might not be willing to undergo a reverse as they might have already experienced being raped earlier. 2) Also for example lets assume that soul A in a soul group decides to be a murderer and Soul B decides to be the murdered in a plan. But is reciprocacity by the same soul mate should not be a precondition. Isnt the other soul completely free to choose another soul as a partner to experience the other side of it. And the first soul can decide to get murdered by someone else and thus will get to fell how it is to get murdered. If not so then there would only be soul buddies in existence and not soul groups as every plan to experience one side of a relationship will trigger a reciprocation from the same buddy. 3) Does karma work completely on the principle of an eye for an eye? Cant the result of a karma come in form of some adverse or favorable situation instead (remember we are in the physical realm). How about people getting convicted in a murder out of souls plan and then spending their life time behind bars as a consequence. Will they still have to come back and get killed by that persons. Couldnt there be a natural law devised in place by the creator working on some formula we are unaware of. may be a formula like e=mc2 to convert energy into matter but to convert karma into physical situations specially which are by will of the physical being and not as well planed? Reply

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44mgrinn14 Apr 2011 at 12:15 am http://www.pathwork.org/lecturesObtainingUnedited.html In this series of lectures there is one lecture that discusses why all humans must be born into their worst karmic darkness. It is essential for any soul incarnating to lose ALL connection with previous life spiritual work and all connection with higher self awareness. This is so that the greatest aspects of the karmic issues must be confronted and overcome. It also might suggest a key concept that when a karmic issue, or basic life experience is actually LEARNED by the soul, it does not need to be re-learned. It is learned. The same might go for a human in this lifetime who has learned in a previous life (on a soul level) how to deal with lower energy manifesting in a violent manner (rape or murder, as you discussed). If it has been learned, the individual most-likely will not re-experience this because the lesson has already

been learned. Another level of clarity might be reached by the soul via that particular life, though it will not necessarily require the physical aspect of trauma and violation. Barry- I really appreciate what you are doing here, and the conversations that are appearing. I have no intention of over-stepping any bounds here just are things I think about, and have thought about quite a bit and I somehow found this string of a conversation. I am not operating from any unclear sense of anything just adding what I have found as related to these topics. Reply

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45barry15 Apr 2011 at 8:00 am I think someone else commenting here has also pointed out that a clear act of forgiveness, from victim to perpetrator, can untie the karmic knot between them lesson learned consciously rather than the hard way. Reply

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46Amit19 Apr 2011 at 9:45 pm Here I fould something interesting: http://www.michaelteachings.com/karma.html 1) Michael Says.Karma is formed when you significantly violate anothers domain, creating an energy imbalance that then seeks resolution..In the Yarbro books, karma was specifically defined to mean a significant abridgment of another persons right of free choice without prior agreement. The phrase of interest here is without prior agreement As per this an act of murdering Soul A by Soul B as per a soul plan should not lead to karmic entanglement as it is with prior agreement. 2) Michael says.Philanthropic or good karma results from significantly expanding anothers choices in a way that does not benefit you other than through the good feelings that arise. She kind of agrees to a notion of good karma. 3) Michael talks about Major karmas, intermediate karmas and minor karmas. Intermediate and minor would include lesser energy imbalances that do not significantly abridge anothers right of free choice or alter the course of his lifetime. A person who forms a karmic bond by murdering someone (major karma) will, in a future lifetime, either be murdered by him, which cancels the debt with an opposite action, or will save his life, which is a more enlightened, joyful way of repaying such a debt. In rare instances, the energy imbalance is neutralized through grace, in which the murderer fully realizes his infringement, and both parties are able and willing to forgive the karma without acting it out physically.

In Michaels People,2 Michael refers to the repayment of intermediate karmas as acts of restitution. Also that It may or may not come from those whom he treated unfairly. So it doesnt seem to happen on an eye to eye basis all the time but there appears to be some natural law involved as well. Even reciprocation is not mandatory. Reply

22. Hi Barry,

47Amit20 Apr 2011 at 7:07 pm

must say that accidental stumbling across your blog has opened me to some of the most intriguing concepts I can think of. I guess occasional difference of opinion ought to exist while comprehending something so profound, but its a great job you are doing. If you could help me with the karmic entanglment if any for the following scenarios it would be great: 1) Genocide by a dictator where he is directly or indirectly responsible for several hundread deaths. 2) Capital punishment with relation to the judge as well as the person who executes it. 3) artificially sustaining life in a wholly incapacitated physical body through mechanical devices, drugs or intravenous feeding; making him/her live beyond natural death time. 4) euthanasia, mercy killing. killing someone before the natural death time. 5) Sucide; killing self before natural death time. Reply

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48Amit20 Apr 2011 at 7:10 pm 6) killing Animals.prolly for fun. Reply

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49barry21 Apr 2011 at 7:45 am Not sure in this case the question often comes up. In the case of whales and dolphins, one would be interfering with the choices of a conscious individual so presumably the usual karma might apply. As for less sentient creatures, Im not sure. I would suspect it depends on whether or not there is suffering. But then, animals kill animals all the time, so maybe its just part of nature. Reply

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50barry21 Apr 2011 at 7:11 am

Thanks Amit. To the best of my understanding 1) I doubt that the genocidal dictator would undergo hundreds of deaths to repay those he caused I think its the experience of being killed because of a cruel decision by somebody in power that needs to be experienced. There could still be rebalancing with those hundreds in other ways the soul might incarnate as a doctor or scientist, say, who saves hundreds of lives which would otherwise have been lost. 2) If the current social structure is such that capital punishment is the law, then the souls participating are merely going along with that. Karma would come into effect only if, say, the judge decided somehow to execute the person even if not guilty, overriding the human law. 3) The soul in question would not be oblivious to what was going on and would be probably be out of the body pretty soon, leaving the body with the doctors/family. 4) Euthanasia would be an agreement by the souls involved. 5) Suicide has been well covered here already. There is no karma involved unless one is deliberately choosing to harm others by it, such as leaving behind dependants who may not survive. Reply

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51Amit21 Apr 2011 at 5:16 pm 1) makes sense 2) makes sense. So social circumstances (or variables in physical realm) can have an influence on whether or not a karmik entanglement would be incurred. What happens in a situation in which someone kills someone as a random act, gets caught and convicted as per the rule of the land and is hanged as a consequence. Somewhere he is getting the result of the karma of killing the person. Wont the killed persons soul realize that his killer has faced the consequence of his act as per the law of the land? 3) Makes sense 4) Makes sense. What would happen if it isnt an agreement and the souls plan was to experience the suffering of being in a vegetative state for many years? 5) Makes sense 6) Slightly confusing: I assume the only difference between animals and humans would be that over a period of time they have developed the covering of soul or self consciousness. Otherwise they appear to be pretty conscious, they have their relative levels of intelligence, emotions, attachments, social structures, sense of loss and belonging and suffering etc. To the extent that Elephants are know to have very complex mourning rituals. Examples are one too many. Yes animals kill but either to survive or to defend and under both the circumstances even a human might not incur any karma. But I am finding it hard to get around the notion of a living being who is on its own evolutionary path being killed as a random act and not boring any consequences. Somewhere I feel something is a miss. Reply

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52barry23 Apr 2011 at 10:23 pm 2) I imagine it depends on the interpretation of the legal punishment/consequence in the mind of the killer. He could be hanged for the crime but go to his grave thinking I wish I hadnt been caught rather than oh, right, thats fair. I think its generally unlikely that karma can created and then dissolved in a single lifetime.

4) Then the soul is successfully living according to plan, presumably with the cooperation of those around it. 6) Make no mistake, there are other intelligent and conscious species on the planet, other than human (and cetacean). Most such animals are more loving than humans simply because they cannot do (and are not trying to learn from the experience of) personal hatred. Whats surprising, perhaps, is that some humans dont get their own difference above and beyond intelligent and conscious. We are beings evolving through choice, using physical vehicles whose brains are capable of supporting choice in a physical context. Most animals, while to some degree conscious, are incapable of consciously overriding their own instinct. Imagine being caught in a burning barn. If leaping through the flames were our only hope of survival, you or I could do so voluntarily. A horse could not; its fear of fire would keep it trapped. We can imagine alternative possibilities and select the future we want. A horse cannot. Reply

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53Amit22 Apr 2011 at 1:32 pm Here I found something very interesting: Elephants are amongst the worlds most intelligent species. With a mass of just over 5 kg (11 lb), elephant brains are larger than those of any other land animal, and although the largest whales have body masses twenty-fold those of a typical elephant, whale brains are barely twice the mass of an elephants brain. The elephants brain is similar to that of humans in terms of structure and complexity such as the elephants cortex having as many neurons as a human brain,[1] suggesting convergent evolution.[2] Elephants exhibit a wide variety of behaviors, including those associated with grief, learning, allomothering, mimicry, art, play, a sense of humor, altruism, use of tools, compassion, cooperation,[3] self-awareness, memory and possibly language.[4] All point to a highly intelligent species that are thought to be equal with cetaceans[5][6][7][8] and primates.[9][10][11] Due to the high intelligence and strong family ties of elephants, some researchers argue it is morally wrong for humans to cull them.[12] Reply

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54Amit23 Apr 2011 at 7:17 pm Humm my brain has gone bonkers and my mind has reached a level of mental exhaustion to the point it can think no further. I guess Its time to take a break. Before I leave I Must say that I found Lots of startling and interesting information to grab onto. more intrestingly it all seems to blend so well with the ancient wisdoms on journey of soul like brahma sutra bhashya, vedanta and katha upanishad. However there are three distinct points to which I could not come to terms with completely. I) Firstly, I couldnt get to terms with the idea of .Souls getting detached from TAO and directly taking birth as humans on earth. http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_ages.html I would still believe that : 1) The soul after getting detached from TAO starts its journey from the simplest of life forms and not directly as a human being. 2) The only difference between animals/plants etc and humans at the soul level would be that by the time the soul evolves from an animal to human form it gets encapsulated in the

sense of I (ego). Sense of I is not necessarily the sense of self awareness and to be able to make conscious choices; as many animals have been proven by experiments to be self aware and make conscious choices. Its the sense of I (ego) that links humans to the choices they make and gets them entangled in the laws of Karma. The choices made by animal are conscious choices as well (governed by previous learnings), but the sense of ego is missing to get them entangled in karma on their end. Given that a soul from its very onset is assumed to be intelligent (by Michael), the evolutionary mechanism of soul through animal kingdom could pretty well be exactly similar to that of the human form given the startling similarities between the human and animal kingdom and their evolutionary pattern. Like a soul would want to experience being a queen ant or a worker ant or a soldier ant while experiencing the ant realm. A soul would want to experience how it is being a tree or a blade of grass or being a flowering tree or a cactus while experiencing the plant realm. how it is being one amongst the heard of wild buffalos or being hunted by a predator or being the predator itself, or prolly being the alpha male in a pack of wolves and rule over all the pack mates. I believe there are rather two phases of soul evolution: In the first phase, soul evolution would involve gaining experiences in the lower states of consciousness with relatively diluted experiences with more focus on evolving biologically finally to a body where the soul consciousness can experience the state of ego or I. The stages might be somewhat similar to 35 steps of soul evolution with the only difference that the focus is more on the biological evolution rather than spiritual. The second phase of soul evolution begins once it has attained the maximum biological evolution possible ie the human form and the focus shifts to evolve spiritually rather than biologically by being able to indulge in more complex and intense experiences based on choices made by Soul ego rather than just soul consciousness. Everything about the souls journey falls in place from here on as per Michaels teaching. II) Second thing I would still believe in is that interaction of Karma is far more complex in action than a simple entanglement between two souls. Law of karma is a natural law and has its own mechanism of action distinct from soul perspective Like akashic plane there exists a karmic plane where in every karmic act is automatically registered. Its the karmic court room, the only difference is that an F.I.R is logged automatically the moment the karma is implemented. The karmic knot is tied in the karmic plane. The karmic act would be dissected, analyzed and an appropriate reaction would be set for delivery as per the karmic law. The result will be delivered as and when the appropriate circumstances of deliverance occur on the physical plane. Yes the two souls might agree upon entangling the knot themselves by mutual consent but its more like an out of court settlement. Also the soul itself might want to decide on undergoing the consequence of a karma but its just like voluntary surrender to the court room. If both these events dont happen the court will take its effect anyway and deliver the results as an when situation is apt. And the soul in concern cant delay the consequences at that time just like a convict cant decide when he would want to go through the jail term. For beings who are both in karmic cycles the fulcrum is in the center with the beings on the sides. If one being is not yet in a karmic cycle the fulcrum shifts to one edge with the karmic being on the vertices. Thus an act of killing an animal for fun would lead to a karmic consequence to the soul though the karmic plane. its severity might depend on the level of evolution of the animal in question. Killing a lion might lead to more intense karmic consequence as compared to lets say an ant, as killing a human would bring more severe consequence as compared to the lion. A typical example of karmic resultant for killing an ant would be being bitten by an ant or some similar insect or killing a lion may be being attacked by a lion or similar creature in this life or any of the subsequent life. It might not be a part of the souls plan then but the experience will add up to the overall experiences of souls growth. III) Third thing would be , the idea that nothing everything that happen to a soul on the physical realm is only with its approval. It makes the entire game of reincarnation meaningless and joyless without the factor of unpredictability. The idea of soul giving approval to every experience it has to under go in the physical realm maybe through dreams etc is just like a student prepared for an exam being asked to approve every question that will be there in the question paper. Yes soul can decide upon its plan, goal, circumstances, body, etc most suitable to execute its plan before jumping into the physical

realm but after that the body is governed by the dynamics of the physical realm. Under the influence of the dynamics the soul might end up realizing only 10% of its plan in one birth and might have to take several subsequent births to complete the plan. The soul is open to experience all sorts of random experiences either from other souls random acts or as a result of deliverance of a karmic consequences. These experiences dont go waste as they act like brownie points in the souls overall journey where it might gain experiences that it would otherwise have to plan for in the future. Anyway, thats just my take on it after going through information on simalar topics through different sources. The concepts are way to profound and mentally exhausting. So I ll take a break Reply . Thanks and all the best!

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55barry23 Apr 2011 at 10:27 pm Thanks Amit! Reply

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56Jeremy22 Oct 2011 at 9:51 pm DISGUSTING. The fact that such a world as this exists, and I am encased in it in a sickening, rotting piece of flesh is grounds to DESTROY my human self and sending myself SCREAMING back from whence I came. And if ANYTHING, ANYTHING in the upper reaches of reality attempts so much as to encourage me to return to this ABOMINATION, this INSULTING INSANITY of a condition of existence I will DESTROY whatever sense of spiritual identity I possess. I am irrevocably DISGUSTED. Reply

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57Graham McNallie28 Nov 2011 at 3:35 am I love that I found this on the web, Journey of Souls was a wonderful learning tool for me at the beginning of my journey Though Ive got to say I believe the author may have a slight bias, and I think the article would have been better off had they not attempted to categorize famous people. I can definately understand their method, but my issue with it is that with a famous person, we could still be very much in the dark concerning what lies in their heart and what truely motivates them. Some of the most profound effects on others are often known only to the person who gives and the one receiving. But all in all, great to find this on the net Reply

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58barry28 Nov 2011 at 6:45 am Im curious what sort of bias are you referring to? B Reply

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59Aaron04 Dec 2011 at 10:26 am

Ive come into these Michael teachings recently andOMG it has seriously BLOWN MY MIND!! My entire perception and engagement of the world has changed. Upon trying to determine my soul age I have become aware that I seem to hover in the middle of mature while exhibiting traits from stage 2 all the way to 6. Do you know if it is possible for humans to concurrently live out different stages? And, if so, would that put our true soul age as the average between the extremes? BTW, Im only 31 so I probably havent come fully into my age yet Thank you sooo much for putting this very valuable information on the web. Its going to help many people from losing their sanity! Thanks Reply

0. Hi Aaron

60barry04 Dec 2011 at 11:33 pm

Im glad you are finding stuff of value here. Yes, you can appear to manifest different soul ages. I say appear because your soul (i.e. you in essence) is definitely at a particular step in its evolving consciousness. But in each human life we take on a body with consciousness at square one. As we go through the normal stages of human life, we gradually reawaken to ourselves in and through this new body, and in doing so more of our true consciousness is able to manifest. So early in life you act like an infant soul, as a kid more like a baby soul, and so on. And, as an adult, these early ways of being are still there inside you, like the rings inside a tree. If you get very drunk, for example, you could regress to an earlier level not in your soul level per se, but in how you are manifesting through your behaviour. At the same time, higher levels of consciousness are also accessible. That is, we can experience moments of transcendent or even infinite joy, wisdom, love, truth, bliss, energy, unity, divinity, and so on in what are called peak experiences and spiritual awakenings. Its just that we cannot stabilise in those higher states until we have done the work of evolving to that level, changing ourselves step by step. So, we can manifest beneath our level and we can experience above our level. But otherwise we will operate at our own level its like our centre of gravity. Reply

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61Aaron12 Dec 2011 at 5:05 am Barry, thanks for taking time to answer my question Reply

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62Stuart Niebank11 Dec 2011 at 6:13 pm I was just wondering what is after 7th level old soul? Reply

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63barry11 Dec 2011 at 7:34 pm Hi Stuart My understanding is that we keep going through another two stages beyond that of the old soul (which is the fifth stage). The sixth stage would be as guides on the astral, working together with our closer soul-mates. The focus here is emotional and inspirational. Many channelled teachings are from souls undergoing this stage they all have a warm and comforting quality. (e.g., Emmanuel) The seventh and final stage would be as a re-integrated collective consciousness, a causal body, comprising all souls from our larger grouping of origin, or what Michael calls an entity. Michael is one example of this stage, being in fact an integrated entity consisting of 1,050 Warrior and King souls. Channelled teachings from beings at this level tend to have a dry, factual quality. (e.g., Seth) By the end of that stage, we are effectively at one with the creative power of the universe (God if you like), and individuality while it remains in some sense is no longer a concern. But from what I can gather, we are free to choose to undergo the whole cycle again as we did this time for the sheer thrill of it! That would be in a whole new physical species.. Reply

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64Juan06 Jan 2012 at 3:18 am Hi, has anyone heard about Reincarnation mathematics? Is reincarnation supported by mathematics? It would be really interesting to analyse this issue. Reply

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65barry06 Jan 2012 at 10:31 pm Is it something youve heard of, Juan? Reply

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66Juan08 Jan 2012 at 3:04 am No, I have heard a few people saying reencarnation is mathematically imposible because souls would rarely have the chance to enter a human body. It does not seem impossible to me, but it would actually be good to test it. Reply

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67barry08 Jan 2012 at 12:42 pm Ah, I have been researching about this to post something on it here in the blog soon. In a nutshell: back in the1970s someone created an urban myth, which was

that by 2000 there would be more people alive (6 billion world population) than had ever lived and died in the whole history of humanity. This idea has really stuck and is often used as a scientific fact to discredit reincarnation. But actually it is nonsense. Population research shows that the number of people to have lived before is at least a hundred billion, probably far more if you include those who died in early childhood. Reply