Gil Alves Ho Massacre Iha Igreja Liquisa, Abril 1999

Re: Res: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa - Yahoo!
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Re: Res: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa
Thursday, April 2, 2009 6:53 PM
From: "hugo fernandes" <nahabere@yahoo.com>
To: renetil@yahoogroups.com
Cc: jejetupuka@yahoo.com
Maluk Victor,
Agradese tebes ba ita nia opiniaun nebe'e loke tan dalan hodi ita dadalia konaba sa mak justisa no sa
mak rekonsiliasaun.
Ema barak iha prinsipio ida katak sei laiha rekonsiliasaun sein justisa. ita bo'ot foin hato'o katak KUHP
Indonesia nian sei la permiti nia jenerais sira atu hodi ba julga!, hau mos hatene ida. Tan ne'e mak uluk
servisu iha CAVR no mos CVA, hau nia prinsipio justisa to'o agora mak oinsa mak Indonesia nudar
nasaun no estadu officialmente rekonese katak sira komite krimi iha Timor. Chega -CAVR nia relatorio
la hetan rekonesementu husi Estadu no nasaun Indonesia, maibe ita tenki hatene katak, CVA baseia
nia findings husi Chega hodi to'o ba konklusaun katak militar no governu civil Indonesia komete
Krimi Kontra Humanidade (KKH) iha Timor.
seluk tan mos hau hakarak hato'o ba Maluk Victor katak, CAVR halo rekomendasaun lubun-ba lubun
no ida deit mak refere ba justisa formal. Barak liu, CAVR rekomenda ba estadu Timor, Indonesia, ONU,
Membro Konselu Siguransa, no nasaun seluk nebe'e mak involve direitamente ka indireitamente hodi
fo marzen ba Indonesia hala'o okupasaun no KKH iha Timor, iha responsabilidade politika,moral,
ekonomia hodi fo tulun ba ema Timor.
CAVR no CVA hatene momos katak, justisa formal sei la facil no sei la akontese iha tempu badak. Tan
ne'e mak durante prosesu CAVR la'o (2002-2005), CAVR la partisipa iha eventu nebe'e mak organiza
husi maluk sira nebe'e luta ba justisa formal (izemplu ANTI), tan CAVR lakoi tama iha kondisaun
nebe'e kontribui ba kria deit espetativa nebe'e bot ba vitima sira konaba justisa formal.
CAVR iha nia relatorio mos tau rekomendasaun sira ne'e tuir perioridade. Prioridade permeiru mak
hadia, kondisaun nebe'e diak ba ema hodi moris sufisientemente iha aspektu sosial-ekonomia,
edukasaun-saude, siguransa, no edukasaun ba direitus humanos.
Agora, los duni katak nai ulun sira (PM, PPN no PR) ne'e laiha poder atu hatete ba partidu sira hodi
labele tau ema integrasionista-opurnista sira iha sira nia strutura partidu nian. Maibe hau hanoin Victor
mos tenki hatene katak, CAVR ne'e politika estadu nian ida mos! CAVR la'os partidu ida mak hari'i
nune'e mos CVA. Problema ba ita nia nai ulun sira mak hahu husi 2002 to agora, laiha definisaun ida
klaru katak politika estadu ne'e nia ba justisa no rekonsiliasaun ne'e oinsa. Iha parte ida fo marzen ba
justisa, maibe iha parte seluk praktika politika nebe'e mak kontraria ho politika nebe'e mak sira defini
uluk.
Se karik, nai ulun sira iha korazen moral - klaru sira iha poder politika tan povu mak hili-sira BELE
hatete ba partidu politik sira katak, politika estadu no nasaun nian mak ne'e. Ita la'o tuir politika ne'e,
tan ne'e mak partidu politika sira LABELE hili ema nebe'e mak uluk KONTRIBUI hodi Indonesia FOTI
DESIZAUN HALO KKH, LABELE TUR MOS IHA POSIZAUN NEBEE SEI DETERMINA LALAOK
NASAUN NE'E NIA. TAMBA IHA TENDENSI KATAK SIRA SEI HALO DESIZAUN NEBE'E SALA. SA
TAN SIRA ULUK NEGA LUTA POVU NE'E NIAN BA UKUN A'AN.
Dezisaun sala nebe'e mak agora ita rona taka ministru -secretario estadu integrasionista-opurtunis sira
http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage?pSize=2... http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage?pSize=2...
Re: Res: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa - Yahoo! Mail
ne'e halo Korupsaun, Kolusaun no Nepotismu (KKN)-fo fali bolsa estudu ba ema Indonesia nia oan
sira, balu halo violasaun seksual- tan nia mos uluk fo marzen ba Indonesia sira hodi halo violasaun
seksual- no mos lala'ok at seluk tan.
Maluk Victor hatete katak, rekonsiliasaun ne'e objectivu final ida tan Indonesia nia KUHP sei la permiti
jenerais sira ba tribunal. Hau la hare relasaun no rasaun ida fundamental katak tan Indonesia la bele
hodi nia generais sira ba tribunal antau ita tenki tau rekonsiliasaun nudar Objectivu Final ida. Indonesia
hodi duni nia generais sira ba julga iha tribunal, maibe prosesu ne'e mak la justu! Karik Maluk Victor
hakarak hatete katak tan Indonesia zigante ida ida iha south asia, diak liu ita diak malu deit tan ita tauk
sira atu invade timor dala ida tan? karik VIctor nia hanoin nune'e, antaun ita moris hela iha 1970-an.
Hau hatete katak, Rekonsiliasaun ne'e nia orizin esensia mak tenki hare'e husi aspeitu PROSESU-sei
iha tempu, kria kondisaun (ekonomikamente, social, edukasaun) nebe'e kontribui ba kura hakanek
vitima sira nia laran moras, nune'e prosesu ne'e sei atinsi valor rekonsiliasaun lolos. La'os fali prosesu
nebe'e mak OBRIGA hanesan dadaun ne'e nai ulun sira halo.
Irmaun Victor, wainhira ita koalia konaba participasaun iha krimi ida, ita halo distinsaun entre ema
nebe'e mak voluntariamente -iha konsiensia- participa iha krimi ida no ema nebe'e mak obrigatorio
involve iha krimi ida. Milisia sira barak liu mak tamba nivel de edukasaun nebe'e la a'as, kondisaun
ekonomia nebe'e mak la favorese sira nia moris facil atu ema obriga sira involve iha krimi. Maibe ema
nebe tama iha kategoria "Intelektual" sira iha liu hanoin hodi foti desizaun ida wainhira atu defende
politika ida-sa tan politika ne'e sei fo impaktu ba hamosu KKH- Sira mos laiha kondisaun ida katak ema
obriga, ameasa sira, sira mos la'os ema kiak los. Sira foti desizaun hodi defende otonomia tanba sira
HAKARAK MORIS DIAK LIU TAN- OSAN BARAK LIU TAN NO HETAN POSISAUN POLITIKA DIAK
LIU TAN- Ne'e mak sira nia background thinking wainhira sira foti desizaun hodi NEGA TIMOR BELE
UKUN A'AN. Se ita hatee ema ne'e uluk foti desizaun tanba nia interese privadu hodi kontribui ba KKH,
tan sa mak ita sei fo fatin no fiar katak nia sei halo kontribuisaun diak ba nasaun ne'e? HAU LA FIAR
no ba HAU:
" EMA NEBE'E ULUK NEGA TIMOR SEI UKUN A'AN, SEI LAIHA FATIN IHA TIMOR INDEPENDENTI"
Obrigado no hakoak bo'ot!
Hugo Fernandes
TAF-Timor-Leste
hfernandes@asiafound.org
Mobile [Timor-Leste] +670 7230926
--- On Thu, 2/4/09, Victor Tavares <victortavares2@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
From: Victor Tavares <victortavares2@yahoo.com.br>

Subject: Res: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa
To: renetil@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 2 April, 2009, 10:44 AM
Maluk Hugo Fernandes,
Problema boot duni kona ba situasaun ida nee...

Dilemátiku boot mos ba na'i ulun sira hanesan PR, Presidente PN ho PM. Tanba tuir
ha'u nian haree sira mos la bele iha prinsipio ida EXCLUZAUN ema Timor oan ida
husi processo reconciliasaun nee rasik.
Moralmente sira la iha korajem atu dehan NÃO ba partidos hirak nebee halo
koligasaun iha AMP apresenta sira nian ema atu halo parte governo ka kargus
publikus ruma. Tanba uma vez que sira uza kriterio nebee la'os konvidativu no
akomodativu iha prosesu rekonsiliasaun nee rasik mak Timor oan barak nebee uluk
neon beik-sala hodi apoia auotomia, embora balu hili la'os tuir prinsipiu, nebee mak
oras nee hakarak ajuda lori Timor ba oin sei sente excluido no nebee mos bele hamosu
embarasu ba na'i ulun sira. Hanesan horiseik Raul Casanova hatudu exemplo ida
konkreto komparasaun kona ba Chico Kalbuady nebee hetan fatin iha I Governo
Constitucional Fretilin nian ho Gil Aves agora iha AMP. Sira nee mesak apoiantes
autonomia deit maibe tanba sa Gil Alves hetan fatin iha Xanana nian governo? Tanba
realidade mak partido ida hanesan ASDT rasik la iha ema atu preenche fatin iha
governo tuir ASDT nian direito halo parte. Independentemente sira komete krime
material no moral durante okupasaun ka depois de referendu ka lae, konforme kriteriu
husi CAVR nian tetu, maibe implementasaun prosesu rekonsiliasaun nee rasik
favorese ba ema sira nee.
Konkluzaun ha'u nian mak nee, justisa ideal nebee CAVR rekomenda no hakarak
haree konkretamente iha implementasaun, karik tetu ba dasin ho pratika
rekonsiliasaun sem exluzaun ida ikus todan liu.
Razaun simples, KUHP sei la gubris CAVR nian rekomendasaun hodi tau sira nian
jenerais sira iha tribunal. Nunee na'i ulun sira la iha dalan seluk atu tuir selain
rekonsiliasaun entre timor oan sira nudar objectivo final. Tanba ba na'i ulun sira mos
tetu ladun hetan vantagem ba Rain Timor se sira fo pezu liu ba justisa tuir CAVR nian
rekomendasaun enkuantu servisu todan liu ida nee iha sira nian oin, oin sa duni tempo
hodi rekupera tinan 20 resin nebee lakon atu lori povo no rain timor ba oin.
Ohin mak nee deit
Hakoak boot
Victor
De: hugo fernandes <nahabere@yahoo. com>

Para: renetil@yahoogroups .com
Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 2 de Abril de 2009 4:22:48
Assunto: RE: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa
Maluk sira
Iha 2005, CAVR nia rekomendasaun ida mak husu ba Estadu Timor atu implementa sa
mak bolu nudar Lustration-signifika katak, politika rekonsiliasaun bele la'o, maibe
ema nebe'e mak uluk involve iha hamosu krime tan nia defende politika
ida-integrasionista opurtunis sira- bele mai moris iha Timor nebe'e independenti
maibe sira ne'e sei laiha opurtunidade atu tur iha posisaun ida nudar decision maker or
policy maker (posisaun politika hodi deside nasaun ne'e nia lalaok).
Ita nia nain ulun sira (Primeiru Ministru, Presidenti Republika no Presidenti
Parlamento iha 2005) iha lista ba ema sira ne'e-inklui ema nebe dadaun ne'e tur nudar
membro governo-ministru no secretario estadu. Maibe sira nunka hare ba
rekomendasaun ne'e no aplika fali konseitu rekonsiliasi nebe'e SALAH hodi hatur
ema sira ne'e iha posisaun nudar policy no decision maker.
Rekonsiliasaun ne'e tenki hare nudar PROSESU ida LA'OS OBJECTIVU ida. Nai
ulun sira nebe'e mak dadaun koalia no implementa rekonsiliasaun ne'e kaer fali
konseitu ida rekonsiliasaun nudar OBJECTIVU. Tan ne'e mak ema nebe mak lolos
ne'e LA BELE hetan posisaun politika nudar membro governu, dadaun ne'e goza
poder ne'e.
So, se mak sala no sa mak lolos cidadaun timor tenki halo ba ema integrasionista-
opurtunista sira ne'e?
Hugo Fernandes
TAF-Timor-Leste
hfernandes@asiafoun d.org
--- On Wed, 1/4/09, lídia norberta Martins <linorsant@hotmail. com> wrote:
From: lídia norberta Martins <linorsant@hotmail. com>

Subject: RE: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha
Igreja Liquisa
To: renetil@yahoogroups .com
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 6:50 AM
Los duni katak Rekonsiliasi mak dalan diak ba Timor-Leste nia futuru,
maibe ne'e la significa katak ita bele ignora ka tau do'ok tiha justica.
Buat rua ne'e, tenki lao hamutuk.
Falta de coragem no seriedade hodi encara problema sira ne'e mak

contribui no fomenta ba fraqueza sector justica ninian.
Hau suporta rekonsiliasi ne'ebe lao hamutuk ho justica.

From: cesario_cardoso@ yahoo.com. au
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:52:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja
Liquisa
ida ne mak bahasa gaul dehan Politika Rekonsiliasi fila joga langsung
ita too dada is hotu la biban..
imi mak diak hela deit - ami mak sai penonton nafatin.
araska e laran susar liu pa
--- On Wed, 1/4/09, matadalan duni <matadalan@gmail. com> wrote:
From: matadalan duni <matadalan@gmail. com>

Subject: Re: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho
Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa
Received: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 3:07 PM
Nee sala bot husi ita nia lider sira. Sira laiha visaun ida klaru
konaba nation state building process. komesa kedas husi
Governu Alkatiri to'o fali Apa bot Xanana. Uluk, Alkatiri
hakiak fali fali SIku Kalbuadi, general Dading Kalbuadi nia
oan hakiak. Agora Apa boot Xanana hakiak fali Gil Alves,
Abilio Soares nia kuinyadu. Lolos, ne'e, mau pagador
hanesan Gil Alves hatene a'an uituna, diak liu mak hakiduk
deit ona. Apa boot Xanana mos nia aten brani ne'e kala
lakon tiha deit ona hasoru mau lambe hanesan Gil Alves
ne'e. Hau nia sugestaun, diak liu mak organisa maluk sira
ne'e mak sai vitima husi kazu likisa para mai husu tok
responsabilidade Maulambe hanesan Gil Alves konaba nia
lia fuan hanesan nia hateten iha jornal ne'e...avansa hatun
opurtunistas otonomista sira ne'e...tan Timor oan nebe'e mak
fo an ba luta ne'e barak mak matenek liu otonomista sira
hanesan ne'e...tenke brani hateten ba apa boot Xanana katak
luta nain sira mos barak mak ho gelar masteradu ka
Dr...laiha tempu fo ba otonomista sira...TITIK.
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Abel Pires da Silva

<abel_piresds@ yahoo.com> wrote:
Excelentissimo Sr. Ministru!
--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Ramos Mata

<bereliku.ailaran@ gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ramos Mata

<bereliku.ailaran@ gmail.com>
Subject: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves
ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa
To: etsa@yahoogroups. com,
"Forum Loriku" <forum-loriku@
yahoogroups. com>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009,
2:17 AM
1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre

iha Igreja Liquisa
Massacre iha Igreja

Liquisa
Loron: 6 Abril 1999
Mate: 60 resin
Kanek: 200 resin
Se mak responsavel: milisi Besi
Merah Putih, ABRI, BRTT
Hafoin milisi Besi Merah Putih

(BMP) halo atake kontra
populasaun nebe'e subar iha igreja
parokia Liquisa iha 6 de Abril de

1999, portavos BRTT deklara ho
lia-falsu dehan populasaun iha
igreja laran maka tiru uluk milisi
BMP sira. Tamba ne mak BMP sira
ataka. Portavos ne dehan katak
BMP ba serku tiha igreja ne atu
desarma ema CNRT sira tamba sira
subar kilat iha laran. Nia dehan
polisia mos iha neba hotu atu
prevene violensia hodi mosu i sira
tiru gas airmata atu defende an.
Portavos ne mos nega katak militar
Indonesia nian mak fo kilat ba
membru milisia sira ne. Haree iha
notisia original nebe fo sai iha
jornal The Age (Australia) iha 9
Abril 1999 iha kraik.
Portavos BRTT ne mak agora tur

iha governu de facto AMP nudar
Ministro do Turismo, Comércio e
Industria, Sr. Gil Alves!
Parabens
Gil!
Massacre has Timor living on the

edge
The Age, Friday, April 9, 1999
By Tim Dodd, Jakarta
East Timor was tense yesterday

amid reports that the Indonesian
loyalist militia was preparing to
step up its fight to wreck the
UN-sponsored peace process and
keep the province under Jakarta's
control.
An assistant of East Timorese

Catholic leader Archbishop Belo,
Mr Ammandeaou, said that
residents of Liquisa, where 25
people were massacred by loyalists
on Tuesday, were living in fear and
only left their houses wearing the
red and white Indonesian colours.
He said he believed that the

pro-Indonesian militia group Red
and White, which carried out the
Liquisa killings, had held a loyalty
ceremony for its troops at Maliana,
100 kilometres from Dili.
The loyalist faction yesterday

admitted that 25 people died in
Tuesday's attack on a church where
hundreds of East Timorese were
sheltering.
Archbishop Belo compared the

incident with the Dili massacre of
1991, in which up to 50 people
died, which was a key event in
reawakening international interest
in East Timor. The Indonesian
armed forces, whom witnesses
allege assisted the Red and White
militia attack the church, yesterday
stood by its statement of
Wednesday night that only five had
died.
The massacre followed a statement

by the jailed East Timorese
resistance leader, Mr Xanana
Gusmao, on Monday calling on his
anti-Indonesian guerilla force to
end its ceasefire and undertake all
necessary action in defence of the
population of East Timor.
Yesterday, a spokeswoman for Mr
Xanana said his force was ready to

defend against attacks by
pro-Indonesian loyalists.
The Portuguese President, Mr

Jorge Sampaio, has blamed
Indonesia for the massacre.
"The Indonesian authorities must

be seen as responsible before the
international community for the
wave of violence by armed militias
against civilians," he said.
Portugal has renewed its call for a

UN peacekeeping force to
intervene in East Timor. The Prime
Minister, Mr Antonio Guterres,
said the international action in
Kosovo gave Portugal the moral
authority to request UN
intervention in East Timor.
An Indonesian Foreign Ministry

official said yesterday that the
planned talks with Portugal, the
former colonial ruler, on the future
of East Timor would still go ahead
under UN auspices in New York
next week. The talks are expected
to lay out a plan for a plebiscite in
the province to decide whether the
territory accepts Jakarta's offer of
autonomy under Indonesian control
or opts for independence.
On Wednesday, the Liquisa parish

priest, Father Rafael dos Santos,
said Indonesian military police had
begun firing into the air when
militiamen began the attack.
"People hid where they could," he

said. "Some fled into my house and
others into the church, but the
police threw in tear gas to make
them come out. The people left the
church with their eyes streaming

and were hacked to death with
machetes by the Merah Putih (Red
and White)."
A spokesman for the Indonesian

loyalist faction, Gil Alves,
confirmed that the Red and
White militia had conducted the
attack. But he said the attack
started after shots were fired
from inside the church grounds.
He claimed that the Red and
White had surrounded the
priest's home to disarm members
of the CRNT (anti-Indonesian
forces loyal to Mr Xanana), who
had stored weapons there. He
said the police were present to
prevent violence and fired tear
gas in self-defence. He denied
that the militia had been armed
by the Indonesian military, as Mr
Xanana has claimed.
According to the Jakarta Post, the

Indonesian Justice Minister, Mr
Muladi, has threatened to move Mr
Xanana back to jail from the
Jakarta house where he is able to
receive visitors.
In Canberra yesterday, the

Opposition foreign affairs
spokesman, Mr Laurie Brereton,
said he would visit Jakarta next
week and hoped to have talks with
Mr Xanana.
--
Kona-ba * T A T O L I *
<http://odanmatan. blogspot.
com/>
"Fatin DEMOKRASIA, hodi

haksesuk kona ba situasaun socio-
politika e ekonomika Rai Timor-
Lorosae. " Fatin ne'e laiha sensura.

Leitor sira bele post komentariu
saida de'it. Blog-na'in sei la ko'a no
sei la aumenta tanba ami fiar katak
ida-idak iha ninia opiniaun rasik
atu hato'o, maske BLOG ida ne'e
iha ninia pozisaun rasik.
Obrigado/a.
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Re: Res: [renetil] Fw: [ETSA] 1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre iha Igreja Liquisa - Yahoo!

Obrigado no hakoak bo'ot!

--- On Thu, 2/4/09, Victor Tavares <victortavares2@yahoo.com.br> wrote:

From: Victor Tavares <victortavares2@yahoo.com.br>

Maluk Hugo Fernandes,

Problema boot duni kona ba situasaun ida nee...

Ohin mak nee deit

De: hugo fernandes <nahabere@yahoo. com>

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, lídia norberta Martins <linorsant@hotmail. com> wrote:

From: lídia norberta Martins <linorsant@hotmail. com>

Falta de coragem no seriedade hodi encara problema sira ne'e mak

Hau suporta rekonsiliasi ne'ebe lao hamutuk ho justica.

To: renetil@yahoogroups .com

araska e laran susar liu pa

--- On Wed, 1/4/09, matadalan duni <matadalan@gmail. com> wrote:

From: matadalan duni <matadalan@gmail. com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Abel Pires da Silva

Excelentissimo Sr. Ministru!

--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Ramos Mata

From: Ramos Mata

1999, Gil Alves ho Massacre

Massacre iha Igreja

Hafoin milisi Besi Merah Putih

parokia Liquisa iha 6 de Abril de

Portavos BRTT ne mak agora tur

Massacre has Timor living on the

By Tim Dodd, Jakarta

East Timor was tense yesterday

An assistant of East Timorese

He said he believed that the

The loyalist faction yesterday

Archbishop Belo compared the

The massacre followed a statement

Yesterday, a spokeswoman for Mr

Xanana said his force was ready to

The Portuguese President, Mr

"The Indonesian authorities must

Portugal has renewed its call for a

An Indonesian Foreign Ministry

On Wednesday, the Liquisa parish

"People hid where they could," he

church with their eyes streaming

A spokesman for the Indonesian

According to the Jakarta Post, the

In Canberra yesterday, the

"Fatin DEMOKRASIA, hodi

Lorosae. " Fatin ne'e laiha sensura.

Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8

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