Person-Centered & Experiential Psychotherapies Vol. 11, No.

1, March 2012, 3147

Person-centered expressive arts therapy: A theoretical encounter

Natalie Rogersa, Keith Tudorb*, Louise Embleton Tudorc and Keemar Keemard
a

San Francisco, USA;

b&c

Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand; dSheeld, UK

(Received 18 September 2010; nal version received 9 November 2011) This article aims to make explicit the theoretical underpinnings of personcentered expressive arts therapy (PCEAT). We introduce PCEAT with a summary of the person-centered perspective on creativity, and expressive therapy, followed by a discussion which connects it to the fundamental principles of the person-centered approach (PCA), specically the nature of the organism, and the nondirective attitude of the therapist. The article concludes with some thoughts about how expressive therapy facilitates individual and collective action, and the peace movement. Drawing on Natalie Rogerss work on creativity (N. Rogers, 1993/2000, 2011), and an invited lecture on expressive arts and peace (N. Rogers, 2004), the article aims to make explicit the theoretical underpinnings of personcentered expressive arts therapy. Keywords: theory; person-centered expressive arts therapy; creativity; expressive therapy; organism; nondirective; peace

Personzentrierte expressive Kunsttherapie: Ein theoretisches Encounter

Dieser Artikel zielt darauf ab, die theoretischen Grundlagen der personzentrierten expressiven Kunsttherapie explizit zu machen (PCEAT). Wir stellen PCEAT in Form einer Zusammenfassung u t und ber die personzentrierte Sicht zu Kreativita zu expressiver Therapie vor. Darauf folgt eine Diskussion, wie dieser Entwurf mit den fundamentalen Prinzipien des Personzentrierten Ansatzes (PCA) verbunden ist, insbesondere mit der Natur des Organismus und der nicht-direktiven Haltung des Therapeuten. Den Artikel beschliessen einige Gedanken dazu, wie expressive Therapie individuelles und kollektives Handeln und die Friedensbewegung fo rdert. Ausgehend von Natalie Rogerss Arbeit zu Kreativita t (N. Rogers, 1993/2000, 2011) und einem Vortrag zu expressiver Kunst und Frieden (N. Rogers, 2004) soll der Artikel die theoretischen Grundlagen der personzentrierten expressiven Kunsttherapie aufzeigen.

rico Terapia art stica expresiva centrada en la persona: Un encuentro teo

ricas de la terapia de artes Este art culo pretende hacer expl citas las bases teo s). Introducimos PCEAT expresivas centrada en la persona (PCEAT siglas en ingle con un resumen de la perspectiva centrada en la persona de la creatividad y terapia expresiva, seguida de un debate que la conecta con los principios fundamentales del enfoque centrado en la persona, espec camente con la naturaleza del organismo y la actitud no directiva del terapeuta. El escrito concluye con algunas mo la terapia expresiva facilita la accio n individual y reexiones acerca de co ndonos en el trabajo de Natalie colectiva y el movimiento a favor de la paz. Basa *Corresponding author. Email: keith.tudor@aut.ac.nz
ISSN 1477-9757 print/ISSN 1752-9182 online 2012 World Association for Person-Centered & Experiential Psychotherapy & Counseling http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/14779757.2012.656407 http://www.tandfonline.com

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Rogers sobre creatividad (N. Rogers, 1993/2000, 2011) y una conferencia sobre las artes expresivas y la paz (N. Rogers, 2004), el escrito pretende hacer expl citas las ricas de la terapia de artes expresivas centrada en la persona. bases teo

rapie expressive centre e-sur-la-personne : Une rencontre the orique La the

` rendre explicite les principes the oriques qui sous-tendent la Cet article vise a rapie expressive par les arts centre e sur la personne (TEACP). Nous the sentons la TEACP a ` travers un re sume de la perspective centre e sur la pre ativite , et la the rapie expressive, puis une discussion qui la relie personne sur la cre e sur la personne, plus aux principes fondamentaux de lapproche centre ciquement la nature de lorganisme, et lattitude non-directive du ou de la spe rapeute. Larticle conclue avec une re exion sur la manie ` re dont la the rapie the expressive facilite laction individuelle et collective, et sur le mouvement pour la ativite (N. Rogers, paix. Sappuyant sur le travail de Natalie Rogers sur la cre rence sur les arts expressive et la paix (N. Rogers, 1993/2000, 2011), et une confe ` rendre explicite la the orie qui fonde la the rapie expressive 2004), larticle vise a e sur la personne. par les arts centre

rico Terapia expressiva pela arte centrada na pessoa: Um encontro teo

ricos da terapia expressiva Este artigo pretende explicitar os fundamentos teo introduzida com um resumo pela arte centrada na pessoa (TEACP). A TEACP e ` criatividade e a ` terapia da perspetiva centrada na pessoa relativamente a expressiva. Segue-se uma discussa o que relaciona esta forma de terapia com os princ pios fundamentais da abordagem centrada na pessoa, designadamente a natureza do organismo e a atitude na o-diretiva do terapeuta. O artigo termina com uma conclusa o acerca de alguns pensamentos que defendem que a terapia expressiva facilita a ac a o coletiva e individual e o movimento de paz. Partindo do trabalho de Natalie Rogers sobre a criatividade (N. Rogers, 1993/2000, 2011) e de uma palestra sobre artes expressivas e paz (N. Rogers, 2004), o artigo ricos da terapia pela arte expressiva pretende explicitar os fundamentos teo centrada na pessoa.

Background This article originates from a recorded discussion between Natalie Rogers, the founder of person-centered expressive arts therapy, and Louise Embleton Tudor, Keemar Keemar and Keith Tudor, then all Directors of Temenos, an independent

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person-centered education and training centre in Sheeld, UK (see www.temenos. ac.uk). The discussion took place following a lecture given by Natalie and sponsored by Temenos on Expressive Arts for Peace: Using the Creative Process to Connect to the World (N. Rogers, 2004) and following Natalies facilitation of a management team day at Temenos. The article is based on an edited transcript of that discussion and subsequent correspondence over some seven years since. There were a number of strands which brought us together. Firstly, we (Keemar, Keith and Louise) had all met Natalie during her previous visit to Temenos and had made a good and creative connection with her around the concept of temenos and our person-centered philosophy of education, incorporating creativity. This had been supported by our co-authorship, with others involved with Temenos, of a book on the person-centered approach (PCA) as an approach to life (Embleton Tudor, Keemar, Tudor, Valentine, & Worrall, 2004) in which we had acknowledged Carl Rogerss emphasis on creativity and uidity. Secondly, at the time, Keith was working on the manuscript of Person-Centred Therapy: A Clinical Philosophy (Tudor & Worrall, 2006) which, amongst other things, reclaimed the centrality of the organism in person-centered theory and therapy, and the importance of philosophical congruence (p. 17). Thirdly, having had the opportunity of working with Natalie, we were keen to hear and contribute to the articulation of the theory underpinning PCEAT. With this in mind, we set up a meeting which lasted approximately 90 minutes and which we recorded, which took the form of a semi-structured dialogue about core principles of the PCA (Sanders, 2000; see also Tudor & Worrall, 2006) with regard to PCEAT. The recording of the meeting was later transcribed (by Keith) and edited into an initial paper, which has subsequently been reworked by all the coauthors and re-edited (also by Keith) so as to maintain the coherence of the initial purpose as well as the original experience and sense of dialogue. In the subsequent editing some material has been added by way of introduction and links between the sections (and in response to reviewers comments). The excerpts in this nal version represent approximately one half of our original dialogue. As creativity is fundamental to PCEAT we begin with a review of the personcentered approach to creativity. Creativity and the person-centered approach Carl Rogerss ideas about creativity are not well known. They have been taken up and developed most notably by his daughter, Natalie Rogers, and, for some, are seen as central to person-centered therapy (see Tudor & Worrall, 2006). Rogers argued that creativity is one of the outcomes of therapy (Rogers, 1959); that there is a social need for creativity (Rogers, 1980); and, in a phrase which echoes Winnicott (1965), that it depends on a nurturing environment. Rogers (1954/1967) identied two elements of the creative process and the relationship between them: there must be something observable, some product of creation . . . [and] [t]hese products must be novel constructions (p. 349). He went on to dene the creative process as: the emergence in action of a novel relational product, growing out of the uniqueness of the individual on the one hand, and the materials, events, people, or circumstances of his life on the other (p. 350). Interestingly, in a published oral history based on a series of interviews, Rogers reected on the fact that he wrote the article on creativity, in essence, in one night: It was in itself a creative act. It just owed (Rogers &

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Russell, 2002, p. 296). In the same passage, Rogers went on to describe having been tested by Thurstone (who developed a number of tests concerning mental ability see Thurstone, 1938) in terms of right brain/left brain functioning, in which Rogers was found to be quite even across both brain hemispheres. Rogers also talked about the one painting he created (among many) which he prized, as well as mobiles he enjoyed making. Carls wife, Helen, was an artist trained at the Chicago Art Institute. She taught Carl how to paint. In a videotaped discussion about creativity with his daughter, Natalie, and granddaughter Frances Fuchs, Carl said he stopped painting when he nally did one he really liked. In an echo of his famous statements about the necessary and sucient conditions for therapy, Rogers (1954/1967) hypothesized certain inner conditions (p. 355) which are most closely associated with creative acts: (i) Having an openness to experience or extensionality, the opposite of psychological defensiveness. Rogers described this explicitly as being aware of this existential moment as it is. (ii) Having an internal locus (or place) of evaluation. Rogers (1954/1967) argued that: The value of his product is, for the creative person, established not by the praise or criticism of others, but by himself. Have I created something satisfying to me? Does it express part of me? (p. 354). Signicantly, in terms of the centrality of the organism, he referred to this as an organismic reaction to and appraisal of the created product. (iii) Having an ability to toy or play with elements and concepts. Rogers (1954/1967) described this as:
the ability to play spontaneously with ideas, colors, shapes, relationships to juggle elements into impossible juxtapositions, to shape wild hypotheses, to make the given problematic, to express the ridiculous, to translate from one form to another, to transform into improbable equivalents. It is from this spontaneous toying with life that there arises the hunch, the creative seeing of life in a new and signicant way. (p. 355)

Rogers then presented two conditions which we may think of as external conditions which foster creativity in the context of meeting the social need for creativity: X. Psychological safety This, in turn, is established by the facilitation of three processes: (a) Accepting the individual as of unconditional worth, (b) Providing a climate in which external evaluation is absent, and (c) Understanding empathically. The responsibility for facilitating these processes rests primarily with the facilitator or therapist. Ultimately, however, such safety lies in the experience of the beholder

Person-Centered & Experiential Psychotherapies

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or participant and cannot be guaranteed or ensured. This ts with Rogerss (1958/ 1967) view of the sixth and assumed condition of therapy: that the client experiences himself as being fully received (p. 130). Y. Psychological freedom and permissiveness of symbolic expression Rogers argued that this is enabled by the facilitator permitting a complete freedom of symbolic expression (1954/1967, p. 358). In elaborating this, he made a distinction between the expression of behavior (which may be limited by society) and symbolic expression (which may or is best not be limited). To some extent this distinction is at odds with his organismic theory of behavior and personality (Rogers, 1951) and it is perhaps interesting to note that (in a parenthetical point) Rogers himself acknowledged that he was unsure of this paragraph (1954/1967, p. 359). In her work Natalie Rogers takes forward an emphasis on symbolic expression in her use of the expressive arts in healing, and adds a third condition (N. Rogers, 1993/ 2000): Z. Oering stimulating and challenging experiences Whilst the rst two conditions may be viewed as providing the soil and nutrients for creativity, this third, external condition is oered by the therapist/facilitator in a more active way. The expressive therapist may oer suggestions to the client designed to stimulate and challenge. In her book on expressive arts, Natalie Rogers (1993/2000) wrote:
We need to get people up and out of their chairs and actively engaged in the creative process to experience it. We do not become creative by talking about it. I may suggest to a client who is experiencing grief or fear to express her feelings in color or clay or movement. These suggestions are meant to facilitate expression rather than to direct a clients experience. Also, the product becomes part of the language between client and therapist.

Using movement, dance, drawing, and sculpting for intellectual stimulation is also supported by Gardners (1983/1993) work on multiple intelligences. These ideas place creativity at the heart of what it is to be human: to be fully functioning is to be creative; and to be uncreative or to have a creative block is to be in some way alienated from ourselves and others. In The Creative Connection (N. Rogers, 1993/2000) Natalie wrote about the blocks to creativity: the inner critic, the fear of failure, and the fear of the unknown. As a person-centered group facilitator she aims to create a safe, nonjudgmental environment where these fears can be put aside, even dropped, and experimentation and play can prevail (see N. Rogers, 2011). In these groups students often report that they stopped dancing, painting or singing because they were judged or criticized by teachers or parents. This is a terrible loss not only for the individual but also for society. The role of creativity and the creative arts is beyond the scope of this article although it formed a part of the original discussion in which we acknowledged that, especially in Western societies, educational systems have emphasized linear, left-brain learning almost to the exclusion of the arts. Music, dance, visual arts and drama are the rst to be eliminated when school budgets are cut when, from a person-centered perspective,

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we would argue that the arts are essential to creativity, life-long learning, and nourishing the soul. As Natalie observed during our conversation: In Bali there is no separate word for art because it is totally woven into the culture, as the Balinese engage in everyday rituals that include dance, singing, praying, and creating art. Expressive arts therapy and the person-centered approach Expressive art refers to using the emotional, intuitive aspect of ourselves in various media. It is a process of discovering ourselves through any art form that comes from an emotional fullness. It is not about creating a beautiful picture, a perfect poem or a choreographed dance. To use art expressively means to go into our inner realm to discover feelings for expression through visual art, movement, sound, writing or improvisational drama. We emphasize the process more than the product although the product may give us a depth of personal insight (N. Rogers, 1993/2000), and personal and professional reection (see Bell, 2007). Natalie: My concept of the Creative Connection1 refers to the important inuence one art process has on the other. For instance, when we move or dance and then do art, the art becomes alive and poignant. If we follow this with writing or poetry, metaphor may drop in. Although many group facilitators oer one or the other media for personal growth, the notion that oering such work in sequence will bring individuals into a deeper sense of self is seldom discussed. Actually, this kind of sequencing of the arts allows individuals to get into an exquisitely focused state or altered state of consciousness. This is relevant as we discuss the implications of creativity. For me, it is very important that the foundation of my work is personcentered. Some expressive arts facilitators are analytic, Jungian or have other theoretical constructs. When I invite clients or students to use the arts for self-expression I want them to know their products or images will be respected and not interpreted or analyzed. I help them uncover the meaning the image or movement has for them. If these images stir deep emotions, I listen and respond empathically and without judgment or interpretation. I am a companion on their path doing my best to understand the world as they perceive it. This creates a very safe environment in which people can explore and express further. Having given something of the theoretical background to our conversation, we now turn to those parts of our discussion which focused on two principles of the PCA: that the human organism tends to actualize; and that the person-centered facilitator supports the organismic direction of the client, clients, or group by adopting a nondirective attitude. Organism and environment Keemar: Your point about expression and your work reminds me of the importance of understanding people as human organisms in the context of the environment, and so I would see expression as organismic expression as well as self-expression. One of the key tasks of the therapist

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Natalie:

Keith:

Natalie: Keemar:

Keith:

Keemar:

Natalie:

or facilitator is to create an environment which is conducive to the client releasing his or her potential. When I refer to environment Im talking about two things: one, the broader, social, economic, cultural environment; and, the other, the environment or context of therapy or training. Now the quantum physicists are saying that we are and not just as human beings we are, as a universe, all one [Capra, 1975, 1983]. And theres an amazing lm, What the Bleep Do We Know? [Arntz, Chasse, & Vincente, 2004; see also www.whatthebleep.com], which documents that we are all connected, so to talk about body/mind is only part of the picture. I am whole and part of that plant, and part of the consciousness of China, and part of my stomach ache. I think that the centrality of the organism in person-centered theory really helps us understand this [see Tudor & Worrall, 2006]. I think that Carl did put the organism at the centre of the theory but that its got a bit lost with the emphasis on the self and self-concept. Missing out the organism misses out that embodied interconnectedness between me/us and the environment/world. Carl used the word organismic a lot: organism and organismic. I have a hard time explaining it but I know what it means. As I see it, that concept is the mind/body: the organism is all of that, and is connected to the world because we cant understand the organism the human organism or any other organism without relation to how and where it is in the world. That we three [Keemar, Keith and Louise] are British is a dierent experience from you being an American. Our dierent societies and geographical location impact us as organisms dierently, for example, our dierent use of language (in British and American English). So, what were saying is that the organism tends to actualize, and that it has an inherent direction; and, therefore, that we (the therapist, educator/ trainer, facilitator) dont have to direct it. At the same time the human organism, as any other organism, does need optimum conditions in which to maintain and enhance itself and the creation of those optimal conditions is the responsibility of the therapist, facilitator, etc. Yes, its always surprised me that people focus on Rogerss theory of conditions (and, in doing so, often misrepresent them), when it is clear from his 1959 paper that he frames them in the context of the organism and its tendency to actualize. . . . and, of course, it is essential that the way each of us creates the conditions is congruent with who we are. If it is congruent for me, as a therapist/facilitator, to introduce movement (dance), music and/or the arts, then this is my contribution to a congruent environment and the creative connection with all aspects of the organism. Natalie, you use movement and are aware of the place of the body in your work using expressive arts and I know you draw on meditation and spiritual practices as well. Given that we are talking in the context of your lecture [on using PCEAT for peace], if we are going to embody peace, what, for you, is the impact of the body perspective on thinking? Thats a good question. Using movement, color, sound and all of the expressive arts stirs up and awakens the right hemisphere of the brain. Theres research on this and how the creative process balances the right

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and left hemispheres of the brain [Springer & Deutsch, 2001]. Creative processes encourage creative thinking. Look what happened yesterday. You had asked me to spend a day as a consultant with the four members of your Temenos management team. First I oered you the opportunity to engage in a half an hour of guided movement to help you be in touch with your body. Then I invited you to spend an hour using chalk pastels on paper. Each of you were so totally focused on your art work the time ew by and I had to put a time limit on it so that we could also have time to discuss the management challenges you had. It was absolutely amazing to me that after a morning of that Creative Connection1 work, when we sat in a circle to discuss the long list of problems you had given me when I interviewed each of you the previous day, you quickly came up with a whole new way of looking at your team and how you were going to work together. I was astounded! I remember pulling my chair back out of the circle to observe you rather than do much facilitating. I believe that each of you had been through a creative process in the morning that took you out of your usual linear mode of solving problems and integrated your left/right brain process so that when you came together to discuss the management of Temenos you had a whole new perspective on how to share the responsibilities and tasks. I know if I have been writing and Im feeling muddled, or my thoughts are not clear, I put on music and dance, then suddenly the thoughts drop in. Freeing our bodies frees our minds. Thats a simple way of putting it. Doing art after movement brings us to a new state of consciousness. The creative process helps us break through existing patterns of perception. I believe that is what happened to you as a team, yesterday. When you started to discuss your issues your mind, body and spirit were one. Your perceptions had shifted. Keith: Thats interesting because I perceive in some of your writing a mind/body split or perhaps a subtle prioritizing of the body or emotions over the mind. However, being with and talking with you I dont get a sense of that. What I see and experience you saying, in eect, is If you can dance, you can write better. Keemar: Yesterday I really experienced that mind/body connectedness and what that freed up for me in my thinking. Natalie: Thats great, and this is where Carl often begins: with experience. This is what we need to catch. For example, what is it that you experienced yesterday? I can tell you what we did, and my observations about your perceptual shift but did you experience that shift and if so, why? What do you think happened? Collecting your views of your experience would give us data to support the notion that using the creative arts process in a person-centered environment helps us think clearly and constructively. Keith: This links with uidity which I think is an important concept in personcentered theory. Carl [Rogers, 1958/1967] describes uidity as new experiencing with immediacy in which feeling and cognition interpenetrate [p. 158]. Natalie: Congruent. Yes, this is a good way to do it! . . . and theres a lot written now that is scientically supporting what we are talking about. For me, it started as early as Jean Houstons [1982] book The Possible Human.

Person-Centered & Experiential Psychotherapies Louise:

39

Yes, its like Csikszentmihalyis [1990] concept of ow which he described as the potent combination of attention, motivation and situation which can result in a seamless experiential ow: back and forth between action, thought and movement, which gives rise to feelings of harmony, fulllment, and joy. Thanks to developments in neuroscience, we now understand more about the brain circuitry of this state when we are in this ow, being totally in it, or being in the groove. Also, it is acknowledged that play is a primary emotional function of the mammalian brain. Panksepp [1998] speculated that the innate capacity for play in humans can be voluntarily channeled in to a variety of activities, and he recognized the capacity of human beings for the use of symbolism in playful states. He proposed that feeling safe and in the company of trusted companions facilitates playfulness, whilst feelings of threat inhibit it. Further, when we immerse ourselves in play, we often allow ourselves to explore a boundary, and underlying authentic feelings often emerge. According to Cozolino [2002] both creative and problem-solving abilities result from the overall integration of neural networks throughout the brain [p. 144]. Thus, products of left-hemisphere functioning, which are predominantly sequential and logical, and right-hemisphere processing, which are predominantly sensorialy derived information and which is likely to be emotional in avor, are mediated and integrated with the help of the corpus callosum. Other systems are likely to be involved too, for example, the seeking system [Panksepp, 1998], the structures involved in the retrieval and integration of memory.

Nondirectiveness Keith: At the end of your lecture, Natalie, a member of the audience challenged you on what he perceived to be the directiveness of expressive therapy. Id like to move on to the question of directivity. Natalie: Yes, that question annoys the hell out of me [laughs], so you start! Keith: Well, I think there are three arguments about this: the rst concerns techniques, the second is about structure and experience, and the third questions our predominantly verbal culture. On the question of technique, I go back to one of Carls key theoretical papers [Rogers, 1957] in which he addressed this. In the context of an integrative statement about the necessary and sucient conditions of therapeutic personality change, Rogers commented that: the techniques of the various therapies are relatively unimportant except to the extent that they serve as channels for fullling one of the conditions [p. 102]. However, over the years, personcentered therapists have generally taken a stand against using techniques and this, I think, was the point of the question from the member of the audience: that expressive therapists use techniques and, I have to say, that it seemed to bother him more than it bothers you. Natalie: First of all, Carl was always growing, so whatever he said in 1957 or 1987 (in the last year of his life), will be somewhat dierent, although his philosophy remained the same. He changed so much. He said, many times, This is what I think now, it may not be what I think tomorrow. You know, I lived that life with him . . . but it doesnt really matter to me whether he [Carl] would agree with us or not. Im not trying to justify my work in terms of his work.

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N. Rogers et al. Im trying to take his work and use it to the best of my ability to further that which is self-enhancing, group-enhancing and world-enhancing. To people who point and say, Well youre not doing it Carls way, I say, Well, so what? I dont even want to get into the argument: Is it or isnt it? What I want to talk about and what I think he would want us to talk about is: Is this helping people to become their full potential? Is this helping people grow? We know things now that he didnt know and the world is a very dierent place, scientically and technologically. I agree with all of that, and I think that there are theoretical pointers in his work to support this, some of which are underemphasized, like the concepts of uidity [Rogers, 1958/1967], and creativity [Rogers, 1954/ 1967] which we can draw on and which support us in saying: Dont get stuck. Rogers was very explicit about valuing uidity [1958/1967]:
Would everyone agree that this is a desirable process of change, that it moves in valued directions? I believe not. I believe some people do not value uidity. This is one of the social value judgments which individuals and cultures will have to make. [p. 135]

Keith:

So, going with the ow includes the intellectual ow. Natalie: Yes, thats true. His basic truths are so profound. Im speaking them, Im teaching them and Im being them. However, I do not want to get hung up on the notion that he has the truth. Keith: Absolutely. He himself talked about the authority of experience: Neither the Bible nor the prophets neither Freud nor research neither the revelations of God nor man can take precedence over my own direct experience [Rogers, 1953/1967, p. 24]. I think thats such a great quote. Unfortunately, some people who identify with the person-centered approach lose that trust or knowledge in the authority of experience and, ironically, become quite dogmatic. Moreover a lot of his truths are universal wisdoms that predate him. Natalie: Yes. Theyre in Lao Tzu; theyre in Buddhist writings, and so on. Keith: The second point which I think is pertinent to this part of our discussion is that theres a distinction between oering structure and directing experience. Coghlan and McIldu [1990] made this point with regard to groups. Being nondirective is about not violating peoples experience. You talk about this, both in your published work and in the lecture. Youre willing to set up a structure, to create a stimulating environment which is one of your conditions of creativity [see above]. None of that says that you want to direct people to have a particular experience; if anything, it seems to me that you want people to have an experience, their own experience. In some person-centered circles there seems to be a fear of putting a chair somewhere, or having art materials around, or saying You might use paints instead of crayons. Natalie: Yes, I agree. Oering art material is oering a medium. However, words are also a medium. Are we using words, or are we using a pen, or colors? The arts are a language for self-expression. It seems dicult for some people to realize that oering an open-ended structure so that people can have a creative experience is not directing their outcome.

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Keemar: Yes, being nondirective creates an environment in which the organism can actualize; but the therapist is another organism and necessarily also has an impact on the environment, including the clients. Our task is to be nondirective, but everything I am and do has an impact on the environment, and on my clients. As Brodley [1999/2005] put it: all therapies inuence their clients . . . A therapy must inuence in order to be eective [p. 1]. Natalie: Thinking about my experience of nonstructured large groups in which we worked for seven summers with Carl, John K. Wood, Maureen OHara, Maria Bowen, myself and others after stepping back from it, I realized what a powerful structure that non structure was. There were powerful group norms that were not verbalized thats my opinion. As facilitators we rather arrogantly thought we were not using structures, but, indeed, as I look more at group process and how we behaved as facilitators, there was very denitely a structure. Keemar: You were saying yesterday that part of that unspoken structure was that the group ended when Carl put his shoes on . . . Natalie: . . . or when the dinner bell rang! Keith: I think the issue is making the structure explicit: whether that comes from walking into a room, or setting up a course. Natalie: I like the way youre putting that. We are setting up a structure to allow people to have an experience; were not directing the experience. I never thought of putting it that way. I like what youre adding to this, it helps. Keith: The third response to the question of directiveness, I think, concerns our verbal culture. The verbal culture, the talking therapy culture is only one aspect of human experience, and if we stay with that we may, in a subtle sense, actually be being directive. Whereas, if we integrate other media dance, song, music, painting that is much more organismic and holistic. When we help people move, sometimes literally move, we may be facilitating them more than if we only operate in one verbal mode or medium. Conversely, if, as a therapist, I am only focusing on clients verbal communication, and only responding verbally, I may be doing them a disservice and supporting their stuckness in one medium or modality. If Im in danger of being directive, Im willing to go there, if were going to help people to get out of a purely verbal culture and to add something to that. Keemar: I was reecting on the work yesterday and my own practice as a therapist. Everything in some sense is directive. I practice from a room that only has chairs and that actually does direct somebodys experience: they need to come in, sit down and talk. Like you, I get a little irritated with directive or nondirective? because actually everything has an impact on somebodys experience. The important issue is whether or not we have that as an intention: not to direct somebodys experience but to be able to acknowledge that if you only talk to me as a therapist, that is going to direct your experience. I was also thinking that I am really interested in changing the space in which I practice as a therapist, and to extend or expand that space, with dierent media and an opportunity for people to move or use other ways of expressing themselves in their therapeutic process. I have a vision of a therapy studio . . .

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Natalie: You may be joined by a few others who seem to be inspired by their expressive arts experience, here. When I come to Temenos and teach/ facilitate expressive arts, I am teaching your students who are already well trained in the person-centered approach and client-centered therapy. So, I only need to oer them the theory and experiential aspects of expressive arts and how to apply their empathic listening skills within that framework. They get it very quickly. At home [the USA] most students or workshop participants only know client-centered methods from a chapter or two in a textbook. This means I also have to teach the personcentered philosophy and have people practice the core conditions. I trust you, Keemar, that, when you expand your practice to include the arts and a client shows you her painting, youre not going to interpret it because youre deeply person-centered. At home students tend to think they need to oer their interpretation or solutions or give advice because they havent had the years of training in the person-centered approach. Keemar: Here at Temenos we have created a process in the training in that our focus is not on training person-centered therapists, but to oer a personcentered experience of training to become a therapist. As Rogers [1951] put it: no student can or should be trained to become a client-centered therapist . . . It is far more important that [the student] be true to his experience than that he should coincide with any known therapeutic orientation [pp. 432433]. Natalie: Thats a wonderful distinction. Keemar: . . . and the learning is through that experience. In the second two years of the Diploma course there is no formal curriculum: its completely created by the student cohort, and is dierent every year . . . Louise: . . . and thats been validated. Weve been really trusted by the [Middlesex] University to ensure a quality training through that process . . . Keith: . . . To be that therapist which one truly is! Having discussed the principles of the PCA with regard to PCEAT, in our conversation we turned our attention to Natalies application of PCEAT to healing and to peace work. The application of PCEAT: The personal and the expressive is political Keith: Id be interested to talk a little about the application of PCEAT. What do you see as the link between personal healing and world healing? What is the translation between an individual feeling more at ease and, for that matter, less dis-eased, and her or him taking that out into the world? Natalie: Carl often said, What is deeply personal is universal. I agree. To me that means that when we unfold to our deepest emotions of fear, sadness, rage, joy, sexuality and ecstasy we are aware that these feelings are a part of every human experience. Thus we are able to be more compassionate with those who are dierent from us. Our deepest emotions are experienced by all people in every culture. Louise: Yes, also, Im interested in how or whether you see a role for the expressive arts in the movement from a personal engagement with political ideas to public ideas.

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Natalie: Yes. The expressive arts are profound in helping people become aware of all their feelings and particularly help them accept their dark or shadow side. The arts are a way to channel that energy constructively. You can dance your rage, paint your fear, or despair. Then several things happen: you discover how to nd inner balance, inner peace. You are not so likely to view people who disagree with you as the other or the enemy; in other words, you are likely to have more compassion. This result is becoming empowered to go out and take action. It is dierent for each individual, of course. However, when each one of us comes from a very clear emotional place we are a light, a candle, a force in the world. When we come from such a spiritual place, we will radiate that out in concentric circles. The Buddhist paradigm says that the inner light is it; the way to peace is for each one of us to nd inner peace. But thats not organized or organizing. Sometimes political activists which I am at times as well say Well, thats not enough. The expressive arts stir up, enliven and enhance our creativity, which helps us move in the direction of our full potential of the role we want to play in the world. Keith: Thats the emerging person, the political person? Natalie: Yes. I remember one woman in a student group I worked with feeling devastated and overwhelmed by certain world events. By the end of the workshop she went out with a greater sense of herself, saying Im going to be more responsive and do things that I need to do, politically, in my own way. Keith: So expressive therapy is more about the individuals empowerment and capacity to go forth, than about organizing for collective action. Perhaps thats another step, whereby people who feel more at peace or at ease with themselves and feel more empowered as a result of their work with the expressive arts and therapy could then go forward and organize. As the Swedish American labor activist, Joe Hill, put it: Dont mourn, organize. For me its that sort of collective action thats often missing in the world of therapy. Expressive therapy encourages more of an individual emergence than a collective emergence. I guess theres still a question in there which is, if I am more of an emerging person [see Rogers, 1980], am I likely to link up with other people and to take collective action? Louise: Yes, whats the impetus? Natalie: Yes, do people actually get more engaged? That would be an interesting piece of research. I believe they do because once weve opened up our own creative process, including thinking creatively, allowing thoughts to become clear, then our actions become clear. We have more options on how to respond to world events. When were feeling more centered, whole and present with the world, rather than feeling depressed on the one side or violent on the other side, then we have more options on how to respond, whether its to a war or a hurricane, an international or personal grief. I know for myself that when I am able to channel my energy appropriately I can then respond politically to whats happening, rather than feeling hopeless. To give an example, I was running an expressive therapy workshop. It was Martin Luther King Day [18th January], which [in 2002] was also the day of a demonstration against Americas war on

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Iraq. We were all feeling hopeless and despairing but, as a result of the four-day workshop in which we listened and responded to each other as we danced, painted and discussed our grief, anger and pain, when people left they took a political stance. Precisely how they and we translate that into some form of political action is, of course, up to the individual. I prefer to say that they (we) respond to world events with appropriate reaction. [To Louise] Does that resonate with you? Louise: Yes. Im thinking of when trainees, and particularly those early on in their training, say Well, this is all very well, and its very nice in here, and were nice to each other, but its not like out there in the world. What happens [they ask] when, as a result of therapy, people get more comfortable? Whats the impetus to change anything about the world? Do people stop caring about others? These questions can be challenging. In response, I talk about our tendency as human beings to actualize and to become more of who we are. This, together with experiencing acceptance and understanding, enables you to have more energy available: you know yourself better, you can resonate more with whats happening for other people, and feel more empathic towards others. In general, you can be more responsive and, therefore, more likely to be impelled to do something about the world. Natalie: It is also true that when we access our creativity and one way this happens is through the expressive arts it brings forth independent thinking. We have seen how dictators squelch art and all creative endeavors, because a creative, spontaneous person will not tolerate conformity. In the last chapter of my book [N. Rogers, 1993/2000] I discuss how creativity overrides conformity and self-empowerment prepares us for action. I should also add that many people are using the expressive arts in large community meetings to help people connect with their personal feelings and thoughts and share them with their neighbors. One colleague invited her community to come and express their feelings after the tragedy of 9/11 [i.e., the attack on the World Trade Center on 11th September 200l]. She said they were very appreciative of the opportunity to use creative expression in a time of deep tragedy when it was dicult to nd any words or utter them. There are many applications of the expressive arts for community building. I have used the arts to help people envision peace. Keemar: I was thinking that in the Creative Connection [N. Rogers, 1993/2000] you quote a colleague of yours, Ben Hedges, who says that one of the most profound ways of working towards peace is to embody and be peace: that really putting the emphasis on the individual being peaceful in the world: that if you are or be peace, that this has an impact on peace movement. Natalie: Absolutely. I think hes paraphrasing a statement of Mahatma Gandhis: Be the change you want in the world . . . and that makes me think of something we havent discussed or tapped into. I have known for years that there are times when the pain or the despair that I feel is not mine; it is coming from someplace else in the world. Also, it interests me that as a woman walks in [Louise had joined the group late] Im already thinking about this: about the feminine and the masculine. Of course, anyone can access that kind of information, that way of knowing. However, it is most often experienced and talked about by women. At times I have known intuitively about things that were catastrophic, whether it was something

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Keith:

Natalie:

Keemar:

Natalie: Keemar:

Natalie:

Keith:

happening to one of my kids, or something happening in another country. I think this also has to do with opening up the creative channels that we have, allowing information in as well as giving it out. This is why the movie What the Bleep Do We Know? made by quantum physicists, molecular biologists, and neurologists, is so validating: what we are experiencing personally, and subjectively is validated objectively. Quantum physics is demonstrating and saying: Yes, what you are experiencing is valid. We are all One . . . and, among other aspects of being all One, we have the potential to heal people at a distance with a focused energy. I dont know if you know of Andrew Samuels and his work on psychotherapy and politics [Samuels, 1992, 2001]. Hes been doing some interesting work, linking these two worlds, which includes running what he refers to as political clinics: workshops and conferences on psychological approaches to politics. One of the questions he asks in these clinics is: If the world were your client, what would you do? Thats a powerful question! If humanity was my client I would do my best to open my heart to listen to and understand their terrible suering, the injustices, the outrage. I believe the terrorist acts that are happening have root causes of oppression, poverty and a sense of hopelessness by those who commit them. I would oer them a lot of clay to pound and to mould their grief, and paint to express their despair. It is amazing how such visual release transforms some of these feelings. . . . and I would put on music so we could dance together, and paint to transcend these feelings. At the same time, of course, we would need to address ways to shift those root causes so that justice and a basic level of health and wellbeing were achieved. I was reecting on your question and answer, Louise [to the question posed by students], and on the connection from the personal to the political. One of the criticisms of person-centered therapy and, maybe, therapy in general, is that it promotes and develops individuals, selshness . . . . . . narcissism . . . . . . yes, and an undue focus on self. What we are talking about, describing and what we experienced [yesterday] is that, actually, as we become more ourselves, we release energy. In other words, the organisms tendency is to be out more, to be out in the world more. So theres a paradox that when we become more ourselves, we become more interested in others, community, politics, and the world. Yes, and more connected to the welfare of people and the planet. I think thats true, although there may be a certain self-selection of people who come to us. Nevertheless, the more people can free themselves from their own distress and become more whole, the more giving to others they become. Yes, and I think theres a dierence here between the analytic approach and the person-centered approach. Samuelss work in this area, as represented in his question, frames the discussion in terms of the world coming to the individual, and, in his terms, an interest in the therapists countertransference. In our discussion the movement is more from the individual out into the world. It reminds me of the challenge President Kennedy posed in his inaugural address in 1961: Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.

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PCEAT is a form of creative arts therapy based on the principles and informed by the conditions of the PCA. It develops Carl Rogerss theory of creativity and challenges some notions about the theory and practice of nondirectivity. References
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Springer, S.P., & Deutsch, G. (2001). Left brain, right brain: Perspectives from cognitive neuroscience (5th ed.). New York: W. H. Freeman & Co. Thurstone, L.L. (1938). Primary mental abilities. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. Tudor, K., & Worrall, M. (2006). Person-centred therapy: A clinical philosophy. London: Routledge. Winnicott, D.W. (1965). The maturational processes and the facilitating environment: Studies in the theory of emotional development. London: Hogarth Press/Institute of Psycho-Analysis.

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