Interview with Rupert Sheldrake

(c) 2005 Stefan Thiesen thiesen@uni-muenster.de non-profit and private use free, contact me for commercial use S: B no! " read much of our !or#, includin$ several of our %oo#s, and !hat " find most intri$uin$ is that ou seem to offer e&planations that are a%le to %rid$e the !orlds of Science and the spiritual realm. T!o 'uotes from other authors came to mind. (o%ert Bauval, author of the )rion * ster , ones said to me durin$ a dinner: +,h sicists don-t reali.e it, %ut ,h sics has lon$ mer$ed !ith *etaph sics./ 0nd the 1erman 2en *aster and Benedictine *on# 3illi$is 45$er said: +3e all must %ecome m stics, if !e are to survive./ 6o! !ould ou comment on these t!o 'uotes7 (.: )h 8 this is a difficult 'uestion. The are also 'uite different 'uotes. " thin# ,h sics has al!a s %een tied up !ith *etaph sics. "n 9n$land the term :Science- didn-t %ecome !ide spread until the middle of the ;<th centur . Before that the term used for !hat !e no! called science !as :natural philosoph -, the philosoph of nature. This !as different from the 1erman +=aturphilosophie/ movement 8 this !as >ust the standard name. 0nd the ?am%rid$e scientific societ !hich " %elon$ to is still called the ?am%rid$e ,hilosophical Societ . " thin# that the connection %et!een ,h sics and *etaph sics has al!a s %een ver close. @ou #no!, as soon as ou are discussin$ time and space and causalit , then ou are dealin$ !ith %oth, ,h sics and *etaph sics, and then the Auantum revolution occurred in ,h sics, and of course it chan$ed the metaph sical %asis of ,h sics as !ell. So " thin# it is prett !ell accepted % ever %od 8 most certainl % the historians of science 8 that there is a ver close connection. S: @es, %ut !ould ou a$ree that most contemporar ph sicists see that 'uite differentl 7 (: 3ell, most contemporar ph sicists are simpl $ettin$ on !ith their >o% of doin$ ph sics in the la%orator , !ithout thin#in$ a%out the foundations of it. That-s true. (B) "n most fields people >ust $et on !ith their >o%s !ithout thin#in$ a%out %i$ philosophical 'uestions and >ust don-t spend much time %otherin$ a%out these thin$s. S: 3hat do ou sa a%out 3illi$is 45$er-s 'uote +3e all must %ecome * stics, if !e are to Survive/7 (: 3ell 8 it is rather difficult to 'uite understand !hat he means. " mean " don-t thin# in the past there has ever %een a time !hen most people have %een m stics. *ost people have al!a s %een preoccupied !ith practical considerations of one time or another, and " $uess that !ill continue, nor do m stics necessaril provide us !ith a ver clear path for the future. Cor e&ample in "ndia. There has %een a lon$ tradition of m stic Sadhus livin$ in caves in the 6imala as, and the are certainl m stics, %ut " am not sure that the %est point is survival (D=?E90(F), " mean the !ithdra! from societ and from the normal concerns of societ to achieve a vision of the m stic that $oes %e ond our present concern. )f course it-s 'uestiona%le even in "ndia ho! much influence the have on politics. *ost of "ndian politics is a%out economic $ro!th, %uildin$ roads, internet cafGs, TelevisionB S: @es, a%solutel B ;

(:Bthe pro%lems that " could portrait. "t-s hard to see ho! the 'uote of 3illi$is 45$er could ma#e contact !ith realit , even in "ndia 8 let alone in the 3est. S: 3hat " have in mind here is the evolution of civili.ations. "n an intervie! " conducted !ith *ichio Ha#u t!o ears a$o, he pointed out the Hardachev classification of potential $alactic civili.ations that classifies civili.ations accordin$ to their ener$ utili.ation. The assumption %ehind this concept of course is that the evolution of other civili.ations !ould continue in our o!n !a , that is in terms of technolo$ical evolution, leadin$ to an ever hi$her state of technolo$ and ever increased ener$ consumption. Io ou %elieve that evolution could ta#e a different path!a and possi%l %e spiritual in one !a or another7 (: 0ctuall it !as spiritual in some !a or another in the past. Cor e&ample a lot of the important evolutionar chan$es in humanit until a%out 500 B?, ou #no!, $rades and fi$ures (7) and schools of thou$ht in "ndia, ancient 1reece 8 there have %een periods of humanit !hen there have %een lar$e developments of spiritual evolution, a spiritual evolution leadin$ to a much hi$her rate than !e are used to. But if that !ill happen toda , " don-t #no!. "t seems to me that presentl !e are movin$ to!ards crisis 8 some #ind of environmental crisis, driven % short term forces of politics and %usiness. 0nd 8 no dou%t !hen thin$s $o %adl !ron$, people ma start as#in$ 'uestions a%out did !e $et here. There ma %e some #ind of spiritual evolution then, %ut " thin# !hat most people are preoccupied !ith, a$ain, seems to %e survival rather than ma>or spiritual issues. 9ven at the time !hen Buddha !as alive in "ndia !ith a ma>or concern a%out spiritual 'uestions, it !as still a minorit pursuit rather than that a ma>orit of the population en$a$ed in that. So "-m afraid " don-t ta#e the vie! that it is an inevita%le thin$. " mean it !ould %e a !onderful thin$ if there !ere more interested in cleansin$ the spirit. The pro%lem is that at the moment !e $ot a polari.ation %et!een increasin$ consumerism, most (!ard us7 Dnclear) no! throu$h television and !orld trade, (caterin$-unclear) to a consumerist culture spreadin$ in ?hina and "ndia ver fast indeed, and in the spiritual realm, as a #ind of counter-action to consumers, !e have reli$ious fundamentalism. So this po!erful $reater spirituali.ation isn-t particular o%vious to me. Iesira%le as it ma %e, it is not at all clear that-s !hat-s happenin$. S: But that ma actuall precisel !hat 3illi$is 45$er meant !ith his sa in$ +"f !e !ant to survive, !e all must %ecome m stics/ 8 that !e all simpl must come to a $reater a!areness of our spiritual side. ?ould ou a$ree !ith that7 (: " am not sure of it. " mean it !ould %e !onderful if people did develop a $reater spiritual a!areness, and " am all in favour of it, %ut it is not clear to me that it is immediatel correlated !ith survival. )ur survival m depend on political chan$es, chan$es of ener$ consumption and reduction of consumption, and a spiritual path !ould help !ith that, it could certainl help !ith our survival, %ut it !ouldn-t necessaril do. So " don-t see an instant contact %et!een those t!o, " am afraid. Sorr for %ein$ a spoil sport !ith that one. S. 0ll ri$ht. =o pro%lem. "n another intervie! ou pointed out that science is a form of in'uir and " thin# that histor sho!s it $ets into severe trou%le !henever it $ets cau$ht up in paradi$ms and do$mas. " !ould sa that the evidence for phenomena $enerall classified as anomalies is reall increasin$. Ei#e the topics pu%lishes % the societ for scientific e&ploration, and most modern theories in ph sics are not onl unintuitive %ut %orderin$ on the seemin$l a%surd from a la man-s point of vie!. Io ou %elieve that science in $eneral is facin$ a ma>or paradi$m shift in the near future7

(: " thin# science should %e facin$ a paradi$m shift, %ut !hether it is or not is a different matter. " thin# !e have enou$h evidence that the materialist, reductionist, mechanist vie! of nature is much too limitedJ " thin# !e have seen plent of evidence for this for a lon$ time 8 for man ears. This doesn-t necessaril influence the !a science %ehaves, unfortunatel . "n %iolo$ , for e&ample, over the last K0 ears !e have seen an enormous increase in mechanistic reductionist thin#in$. That is true for the %iotechnolo$ industr , the $enetic modification industr and the pharmaceutical industr , and these are the main emplo ers of %iolo$ $raduates, hundreds of %illions of Iollars have %een invested in those reductionist molecular approaches. The result is that most %iolo$ists comin$ out of the Dniversities toda and most time if ou tal# to students, it is even more reductionist and even more mechanistic than it !as K0 ears a$o. So !e are sensin$ that mainstream %iolo$ has moved in the opposite direction to a more holistic approach. =o! of course fashions chan$e and " dare sa this fashion !ill chan$e, too, %ut it ta#es a lon$ time to chan$e these entrenched thin$s. *ost practicin$ %iolo$ists have %een trained in molecular %iolo$ and don-t #no! an thin$ else a%out %iolo$ e&cept the molecular approach. The are not all suddenl $oin$ o !a#e up one mornin$ and chan$e. 3hat !ill happen, " suppose, is that a more holistic approach !ill %ecome more fashiona%le and $raduall !ill %ecome somethin$ on !hich more people !ill !or# and it !ill %e tau$ht more in school and universities. But there is not much si$ns of that happenin$ et. " have spent ears and ears tr in$ to encoura$e this #ind of chan$e this #ind of thin#in$ in %iolo$ , %ut " can-t sa it has %een met !ith much success !ithin the academic and educational !orld. S: "s it mostl %ecause the research %asicall is ends-oriented and motivated % profit and economic incentives7 (: 3ell 8 " don-t see (77 Dnclear ;0:;2) people do that 8 " thin# it is ideolo$ical. The people !ho drove the molecular %iolo$ revolution had a ver stron$ ideolo$ical a$enda. The are li#e the sort of neo-conservatives of the scientific !orld. The had a ver clear idea of !hat the !anted to do. To ta#e over %iolo$ and $et the molecular approach to dominate over %iolo$ . The have mana$ed to persuade a lot of people that this !as a $ood area to invest a ver lar$e amount of mone in, !hich means lots of people have >o%s in it. 0nd ou #no! it ma not %e as successful as the hope. " don-t thin# it is not >ust %ecause of the mone , thou$h. Cor e&ample if ou ta#e healthcare, !hich is of hu$e political concern in our countries, especiall here in Britain. The national healthcare %usiness is e&tremel e&pensive. The $overnment is findin$ it ver difficult to sustain the level of healthcare the population !ants !ithout havin$ a hu$e increase in ta&ation. 0nd in 0merica private healthcare companies are e&tremel !orried a%out the escalatin$ costs of hi$h-tech medicine. So here is this hu$e financial interest, %ut if !e are loo#in$ into alternative medicine 8 it could deliver cheaper and more effective forms of healthcare for certain conditions 8 not for ever thin$, %ut for lots of thin$s that people $o to see Ioctors a%out. ?hronic conditions li#e %ac# pain, mi$raine, headaches, chronic s#in diseases, cold sores, thin$s li#e that the conventional medicine is not ver $ood at dealin$ !ith and alternative methods ma %e %etter at dealin$ !ith. So if !e-d have more research on holistic therapies, it could %e somethin$ that health and insurance companies and should %e ver interested in, %ecause it mi$ht deliver %etter health care at lo!er costs to the population, !hich should %e in their economic interest. S: so ou !ould also sa that ideolo$ical aspects are drivin$ these developments7 (: " thin# that the alternative healthcare !ould %e less ideolo$ical than the mechanistic healthcare s stem !hich is dominated % lo%% in$ $roups and the ideolo$ of mechanistic medicine and mechanistic %iolo$ . The are ideolo$icall driven 8 more than economicall K

driven, %ecause in fact the economic interest of health insurance companies and the $overnment !ould %e to $et as cheap as possi%le health care. "f the can $et cheaper medicine throu$h acupuncture or homeopaths instead of e&pensive Ioctors !ith fanc scannin$ machines and phenomenall e&pensive dru$s, then that-s !hat !e should %e doin$, and sooner or later " thin# !e !ill do that. " thin# economics alone !ill dictate an increase of a%out an increase of the acceptance of alternative health care. 0nd as soon as !e have that, there !ill %e 'uestions a%out ho! these different therapies !or#. 0nd that !ill in turn lead to 'uestions that create a more holistic approach to %iolo$ . So " thin# that in fact the chan$e !ill %e driven more throu$h the health care s stem than >ust in the realm of ideas. " thin# that soon the economic forces !ill soon start helpin$ chan$e, and even if the don-t eradicate it, the >ust !ill !or# a$ainst an ideolo$ . ;K:2; S: So then ou sa that science %asicall is not as value free as it tends to present itself7 (: )h 8 science isn-t value free at all. 3hat science people do in universities and institutes depends on !hat people are prepared to pa for. 0nd !hat $overnment fundin$ %odies, and !hat corporations !ill pa for depends on !hat the thin# !ill %e profita%le and also !hat-s in accordance !ith prevailin$ ideolo$ . So it-s not at all value free 8 it-s dominated % ideolo$ical and economic and political concerns. S: But is it nevertheless not surprisin$ that some of the o%vious phenomena ou descri%e in our %oo# 8 li#e telepath and the e&tended mind 8 are not thorou$hl researched, %ecause the seem to %e of essential and immediate interest to >ust a%out ever %od (: 3ell es 8 the interest a lar$e num%er of people %ut the are not of interest to those !ho are in char$e of science fundin$ in $overnments or universities, and that " thin# a$ain is lar$el for ideolo$ical reasons. There has %een a stron$ ta%oo a$ainst investi$atin$ thin$s li#e telepath , and for $enerations 8 this is not a ne! phenomenon. 0nd this ta%oo means these su%>ects have never %een pu%licl funded in an countr and the research onl privatel funded on a ver small scale, despite the fact of an enormous pu%lic interest. So a$ain: this is definitel an ideolo$ical pro%lem. "t $oes a$ainst the prevailin$ paradi$m. S: Eet us $o a %it into our theor and into our !or#. 3hat !ould ou sa is the relevance of morpho$enetic fields or morphic fields in $eneral for the evolution of life in the universe at lar$e7 Ioes the theor that natural la!s are more li#e natural ha%its impl that !hen life !ould form some!here in the universe, it !ould more readil form else!here, too7 (: @es 8 " thin# the so called la!s of nature are more li#e ha%its and these ha%its evolve and ha%its can spread over hu$e distances. )f course " cannot sa !hether ha%its that form on 9arth !ould affect the !hole universe. But that-s !hat " assume as part of m theor . "t !ould %e impossi%le to prove that at present. " can-t see an reason !h the should fall off !ith distance. So " thin# that so called la!s of nature are more li#e ha%its -- that there is a #ind of ha%it memor throu$hout the natural !orld, and the evolutionar process is an interpla %et!een ha%its and creativit . There is also a creative principle in nature. "f there !ere onl ha%its, ever thin$ !ould settle do!n in $roups of ha%its, and nothin$ !ould chan$e ver much. S: 3ould this also lead to the idea that the universe itself can %e considered conscious from a certain point of vie!7 L

(: =ot necessaril . 6a%its are not usuall conscious. @ou and " have ha%its, and !e are not usuall conscious of our ha%its. 3hen " ride a %ic cle, for e&ample, " don-t thin# a%out it. "-m doin$ it, it >ust happens automaticall , unconsciousl . So the !hole point of that ha%it memor is that ha%its are unconscious. 9ven most of our human ha%itual life is unconscious. *ost of our o!n mind is unconscious. So if the !hole universe has a lot of ha%its, it doesn-t necessaril mean the universe is conscious. "t could >ust %e a universe of unconscious ha%its. The 'uestion !hether the universe is conscious or not is a different 'uestion. @ou can have ha%its !ithout consciousness. "t doesn-t necessaril impl it. S: @es 8 %ut !hat a%out creativit 7 (: There is a variet of theories of creativit , !hich " s#etch out in m %oo# +The ,resence of the ,ast/, that-s the one that-s in 1erman called +Ias 1ed5chtnis der =atur./ There is a variet of !a s of thin#in$ a%out creativit . The materialists vie! creativit in the end as >ust an act of %lind chance and people !ho %elieve there is a creativit inherent in nature !ould sa there is a creative principle in life or in nature or in the solar s stem or on the planet 8 or in the !hole universe. 0nd those !ho %elieve in 1od !ould sa !ell es, there is a creative principle throu$hout the !hole universe, %ut that ultimatel comes from the creative po!ers of 1od !hich lies %ehind and !or#s throu$h the !hole universe. So ou can see it in different !a s, and the vie!s people have of creativit !ill depend in the end on !hat !orld vie! or philosoph or reli$ious vie!s the actuall have. 0ll of it can %e compati%le !ith science. Science does not actuall e&plain uni'ue creative events. "t is mainl concerned !ith re$ularities and repetitions. So morphic resonance is a%out re$ularit and repetition and not reall a%out creativit , and personall " leave that 'uestion open. "t is somethin$ " don-t %elieve !e can solve scientificall . S: 3hat do ou sa a%out the phenomenon that an idea sometimes seems to %e in the air, that the time seems to have come for a certain vie! of thin$s or a certain development 8 li#e that t!o people totall independentl from each other develop the same theor or the same mathematical method at the same time7 This seems to have happened repeatedl throu$hout histor . (: @es. 0nd also there are cultural inventions !hich occurred in distant continents, e&istin$ ver parallel to each other. 0nd also in %iolo$ical evolution there is a lot of parallel evolution -- the !a that in 0ustralia the *arsupial mammals developed, s'uirrels and !olves and ant eaters, creatures that are surprisin$l parallel to mammals in other parts of the !orld. This is called parallel evolution. " thin# morphic resonance could help e&plain these thin$s. "f it has happened in one place, it is more li#el to happen some!here else. That doesn-t necessaril e&plain the 'uestion as to !h certain forms of creativit at one time rather than at another. 3e don-t reall understand creativit . *orphic resonance helps us to understand ho! ne! inventions spread once the have happened %ut it !ouldn-t e&plain !hat-s +in the air/ in the first place. There in 9n$lish !e have to use the 1erman !ord +2eit$eist/, and the spirit of the time is rather m sterious. "t could %e that the !hole universe has 8 or the solar s stem plus the 9arth have 8 chan$in$ periods and different moods. 0strolo$ers !ould tell us it happens %ecause there are different patterns of certain stars in the heavens. " must tell ou, thou$h, " am not a follo!er of astrolo$ , %ut it could %e that there is a 'ualit of time in the Dniverse, that it-s not all >ust plain and uniform as !e thin#. There could %e periods of time that are more creative than others. But if so, !e don-t understand !h and ho! that should %e.

S: ?ould it also %e a form of telepath !hen some%od is preoccupied !ith the same pro%lem as some%od else, that the arrive at similar solutions %ecause there is somethin$ li#e a resonance amon$ similar states of mind7 (: @es, es 8 that !ould certainl %e a telepath or morphic resonance e&planation. But !hat " am tal#in$ a%out is !h people are preoccupied !ith the same pro%lem at the same time. That !ould %e more the 'uestion of 2eit$eist. )nce one of them arrives at a solution, thou$h ma %e if one of them is thin#in$ a%out it others ma throu$h telepath as !ell start thin#in$ a%out it and one mi$ht arrive at a solution, !hile the other mi$ht pic# it up from him. But that doesn-t e&plain !h %oth are thin#in$ a%out the same thin$ to start !ith. 0nd that-s !here " am thin#in$ there ma %e a certain 'ualit of time, somethin$ li#e the 2eit$eist on the 9arth or throu$hout the Dniverse. S: Io ou possi%l see a !a here to e&plain s nchronistic events in the 4un$ian sense7 (: 3ell 8 some #inds of parallel events, in !hat 4un$ calls S nchronicities, could %e e&plained in terms of telepath . 6e used the !ord +S nchronicit / in a ver !ide sense, so it !ould partl cover telepath , !hich " thin# is e&plica%le throu$h morphic resonance and morphic fields. But !hat he called meanin$ful coincidences is much harder to understand. The mi$ht fit in !ith a #ind of 2eit$eist vie!J the !ould not fit in !ith a ha%itual or repetition vie!. S: 0nother thin$ ou tal#ed a%out in our %oo# +The Sense of %ein$ stared at/ !as for e&ample remote vie!in$. ?ould ou ima$ine that at one point in the future these thin$s could %e developed in a reall s stematic !a and even used for, for e&ample, space e&ploration7 (: (emote vie!in$ !as used for sp in$ % the ?"0 in 0merica and possi%l % the (ussians as !ell, so it has alread %een developed and used, and sometimes it !as 'uite effective. The pro%lem is that it is rather unrelia%le. But in terms of space e&ploration - if it-s possi%le for people to vie! out to different parts of the universe or ou can communicate telepathicall !ith other forms of intelli$ence in other parts of the Dniverse. S: So that ou could ima$ine to %e a possi%ilit 7 (: That " can ima$ine, es. Then " thin# !e-d have a ver different vie! of space e&ploration !hich is somethin$ that could ta#e place on much lo!er %ud$ets than !ith sendin$ roc#ets out to space. 0nd of course the trou%le !ith the en$ineerin$ %ased space e&ploration is that !e can-t reall $o an further than our solar s stem. 0ll these pro%es are all !ithin the solar s stem. But even !ithin our o!n 1ala& there are hundreds of thousands of stars, and !e are not $oin$ to reach an other star s stem !ith roc#ets, at least in a feasi%le time. 0nd space e&ploration %ased on sendin$ radio si$nals a$ain is limited % the speed of li$ht. )ur o!n 1ala& , the *il# 3a , !hich is onl one of %illions of 1ala&ies in the Dniverse, measures a hundred thousand li$ht ears across. So if ou !ant to communicate % radio !aves, !hich travel at the speed of li$ht, !ith inha%itants of a solar s stem at the other side of the 1ala& , it !ould ta#e a hundred thousand ears for our messa$e to reach them. 0nd even if the repl immediatel , it !ould ta#e a hundred thousand ears for their messa$e to come %ac#. So it !ould %e t!o hundred thousand ears %efore the ans!er to an 'uestion ou mi$ht as# them !ill %e ri$ht %ac#. 0nd of course in t!o hundred thousand ears no one can %e sure that !e still have technical civili.ations here on 9arth, and even if !e do, if the !ill remem%er the 'uestion from that lon$ a time a$o. So even speed of li$ht communication is not reall feasi%le for a deeper #no!led$e of the Dniverse. "f ho!ever people can e&plore the Dniverse M

% clairvo ance or telepath , and if clairvo ant or telepathic communication ta#es place faster than the speed of li$ht 8 !hich !e don-t #no! 8 if it does, then evidentl !e have hu$e ne! possi%ilities. S: ?ould this possi%ilit also e&plain !h so far no%od found an radio si$nals durin$ the various S9T" pro$rams7 (: =o 8 " mean !e don-t #no! !hat #ind of radio si$nals mi$ht %e out there. But an trul advanced civili.ation !ill have $one a lot further than !e have in terms of telepath and clairvo ance. S: This actuall is a ver interestin$ !a of seein$ thin$s 8 also for the audience of this ma$a.ine. (: 0ctuall " have for$otten !hat ma$a.ine that !asB S: "t-s +Sa$enhafte 2eiten/, the I5ni#en ma$a.ine. "t-s a mem%ership ma$a.ine for this I5ni#en Societ , and the are interested in issues surroundin$ life in the Dniverse, 0lien visitors to 9arth and the li#e. But a$ain 8 it is an interestin$ point of vie!. ?an ou ima$ine that this #ind of e&ploration has ta#en place on 9arth and left some form of tan$i%le footprint %ehind7 That an 0lien race e&plored the 9arth in this remote ps chic fashion7 (: 3ell, es, " mean one !a the could do is % direct clairvo ance the could e&plore the 9arth, and !e !ouldn-t have #no!n an thin$ a%out it. 0nother !a is the could communicate telepathicall !ith people here on the 9arth. 0nd the people here on 9arth !ould then thin# the !ould communicate !ith spirits from other stars. S: )r 0n$els, for e&ampleB (: 9&actl . 0nd there are plent of people in all civili.ations !ho have said e&actl that. There is the case of the Io$on, the !ell #no!n Sirius m ster . The seem to #no! the properties of the Star S stem and that couldn-t %e e&plained % normal astronomical #no!led$e and the technolo$ that the had availa%le to them. 0t the time the couldn-t have mana$ed throu$h normal technolo$ical means. But if there had %een clairvo ant visitors to 9arth, the could have revealed #no!led$e a%out the stars in the Sirius s stem, and so this #no!led$e mi$ht %e possi%le. "t seems to me that information e&chan$e %et!een other civili.ations and other planets, other forms of intelli$ence in the universe, could !ell %e ta#in$ place !ith non-technolo$ical means li#e telepath or clairvo ance. " m self am not convinced that there-d %e DC)-s, ?hariots of the 1ods !ith visitors from outer space in 6ard!are Spaceships. Bu " thin# there could easil %e influence from e&tra terrestrial intelli$ences mediated throu$h telepath , throu$h trance mediums, throu$h shamanism, and so on. S: This !as !hat " !as hintin$ at in the %e$innin$ !hen " tal#ed a%out the evolution of civili.ations, that ma %e the evolve in a totall different !a that is not as ener$ intensive and technolo$ centred as !e are. So this is a scenario that ou are %asicall descri%in$ no!. (: @es, althou$h !hether or not this has much of an effect for the evolution of civili.ationB if some%od said the !ere $ettin$ communications throu$h channellin$ from a star in )rion, N

" thin# most people simpl !ouldn-t listen to them. So " don-t thin# it !ould have much of an effect on the destin of civili.ation or the advertisin$ industr . "n the past people have alread claimed to have received messa$es from other %ein$s li#e an$els, non-human intelli$ences, and onl %een ta#en seriousl in a reli$ious conte&t %ut less seriousl in non reli$ious conte&ts. So ho! much imprint this !ill have, " don-t #no!. S: But " also mean that civili.ations in outer space, if the e&ist, mi$ht %e completel different than !hat !e assume them to loo# li#e. The clichG is the fl around in hu$e space ships, consume hu$e amounts of ener$ , have !arp drives and anti matter ener$ production s stems and !ho #no!s !hat else, !hile in fact the mi$ht have ta#en totall different turns. (: )h 8 the mi$ht %e completel different. The mi$ht %e more li#e Ti%et as it !ould %e if the ?hinese hadn-t invaded. The ?ivili.ation of Ti%et !as not a ver hi$h-tech civili.ation, %ut the people had developed a $reat deal of understandin$ of the po!ers of the mind. So the mi$ht %e much more li#e Ti%et than li#e ?alifornia. S: @esB o#a . This actuall also is a nice final !ord. K;:K0 Than# ou ver much (: Than# ou.