11/22/2015

Howtocalculatesurgeforcesonpipingsystems?IntergraphCADWorx&Analysis

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Howtocalculatesurgeforcesonpiping
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#3741808/13/10 09:20PM

Kuramadenz

Higuys!
Ineedsomehelphere.

November

Iamanalyzinga40"LNGline,withasurgepressureof
9.14bargandavolumetricflowrateof14,000m^3/hr.I
needtosolvefortheforcedevelopbythissurgepressure
onmypipingsystem,sothatIcananticipatepreciselythe
loadsactingonmydirectionalanchorsandguides.Ijust
don'tknowtherightformulaforit,orhowtocalculateit
precisely.Anyonehaveanyideasonhowtocalculate
surgeforces?Pleasehelpmeoutherefolks..Ijustneedit
badly..

_________________________
Kuramadenz

Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:Kuramadenz]

Registered:
01/20/05
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Thankyouverymuch!

the_dude

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Posts:2
Loc:Philippines

FAQ

#3743908/15/10 11:50PM

Calculatingsurgeloadsisnotastraightforwardexercise
unfortunately.MosttimesIhaveexperiencedthisthe
approachhasbeenvery,veryconservative.ie:PxAxDLF,
whichisbasicallyassuminganinstantvalveclosureand
assumingthesamepressurerisefortheentirepipingsystem
regardlessofthelengthorconfiguration.
Itisworthspeakingtoanexperiencedprocessengineer
whohaspracticalpipingandsiteknowledge.Youneedto
knowthesurgerise,thevalveclosuretime,thevalvetype
(todetermineeffectiveclosuretime),acousticvelocityand
someotherthings.Aprocessengineercantellyouallthose
things,andtheyshouldbeabletohelpworkoutrealistic
loadsdevelopedfromelbowtoelbow.
Ifyouworkwithanysubseaorpipelinesengineersthey
shouldalsobeabletohelpyou,astheywoulddealwith
substantialsurgeloadsduetolongstraightlengthsofpipe.
Editedbythe_dude(08/15/10 11:52PM)

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:the_dude]
faiz_mas

#3757208/20/10 06:06AM

HelloKuramadenz,
Pleaseconfirmwhetherthepressureyouhavestatedisthe
surgepressureorthelinepressure.
UsuallyforamainLNGlinesasurgeanalysiswillbestudied
duringshutdownoperationinaspecialisedsoftware(eg,
Pipenet).Thiswillgivetheriseinpressureinthelineduring
shutdownoperations.Sincethevalvesarenotstopeda
suddenthesurgepressurewillnotbethathigh.Sincethe
linesizesareveryhighinyourcaseitwillbetoo
conservativetoconsidertheabsolutepressuredifference
asthesurgepressure.

Member
Registered:
06/03/10
Posts:12
Loc:Tamil
Nadu

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:faiz_mas]
Farhad

#3758608/21/10 02:58AM

Member

HelloThere,

Registered:
04/25/07
Posts:116
Loc:UAE

Forvalveclosureandsurgeanalysis,PIPENETTransient
modulegeneratesForceFile(FRCfile)containinguniaxial
appliedforcesonpipingsystems.CAESARIIcanimportFRC
filesandgeneratesDynamicinput(WaterHammer)
automatically.
YoumaydothesameanalysisbyusingBOSFluidsand
CAESARII.
Forwaterhammercalculation,refertoCAESARII
applicationguide.
_________________________
Regards,
FarhadSalehi

WhatUgiveUgetback!!!

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:faiz_mas]

#3759708/22/10 11:01PM

Kuramadenz

HelloFaiMaz,
Member
Registered:
08/13/10
Posts:2
Loc:Philippines

Thesurgepressureisreallythat9.14barg.ActuallyIhave
alreadythesurgeanalysisreportfromtheprocessgroup.
Theyhave7casesofESDofcontrolvalves.Ichosethe
casethatwouldgivemeaconservativeresult,andthat
caseregisteredapeaksurgepressureof9.14barg.
Statically,theforcethatwouldbeexpectedateach
nodes,isaround600knformycase,assumingofcourse
thatthepressurerisetimeiszero.Buttheprocesshad
givenmearisetimeof15secondsafterESD.SoIruna
dynamicanalysis,andgetalowloadsonmysupports.I'm
justnotsureifthisisarightprocedure.
_________________________
Kuramadenz

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#3760108/23/10 12:16AM

Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:Kuramadenz]
K.MKIM

Member

Hello

Registered:
11/14/07
Posts:6
Loc:KOREA

Ifyouhavethesurgeanalysisreportfromprocessgroup
whichcontainsthetimePressuredataateachnodes.First
changethepressureintorisedpressurebyusingP=P0+
DeltaP(Risedpressure)andthenchangetherisedpressure
intoforcebyusingF=PxA.
Finally,runTimehistoryanalysisinCaesarIIwithTimeforce
dataat
eachnodes.
Thisismyjustidea
Doesanybodyhaveanyideaaboutabove?

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#5619109/15/13 06:14AM

Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:Kuramadenz]
DuWei

Member
Registered:
08/22/05
Posts:22
Loc:
Shanghai,
P.R.C hina

IfapplyingthecalcualtedsurgeforcesinCEASARIIby
"staticequivalent",itmightrequiretomultiplytheloadsby
DLFfactor=2?

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#5620709/17/13 02:07AM

Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems?[Re:Kuramadenz]
Farhad

Member

DuWei,

Registered:
04/25/07
Posts:116
Loc:UAE

DLFforaninstantaneouslyappliedconstantload(nota
harmonicorimpactload)isalwaysexactly2.
_________________________
Regards,
FarhadSalehi

WhatUgiveUgetback!!!

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