INTERVIEW WITH

DR. JOHN EBERSOLE

Group 1 Members

Stephanie Barbee
Jack Boeve
Kay Venteicher
University of Maryland University College

DEPM 604
13 July 2015

Interview conducted Monday, 6 July

2015 by Jack Boeve for Group 1

DR. JOHN EBERSOLE

John F. Ebersole, LPD, is president of
Excelsior College in Albany, N.Y., one of the
oldest accredited, private, nonprofit
distance education institutions in the
country. In his 25 year career in higher
education, Dr. Ebersole's personal
experience as a post-traditional student has
formed his approach to adult education.
Ebersole, J. (2015). Executive staff: President of Excelsior College. [Web page]. Retrieved from
http://www.excelsior.edu/about/leadership/executive-staff/president

INTERVIEW
QUESTIONS,
ANSWERS, AND
ANALYSIS

PERSPECTIVE ON CURRENT CHALLENGES TO DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATIONS AND THE PROFESSION

QUESTION 1: WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE THREE BIGGEST CHALLENGES THAT

DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR LEADERS FACE IN TODAY'S
EVER-CHANGING MARKET? HOW DO YOU THINK THE ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR
LEADERS SHOULD REACT TO THE CHALLENGE(S)?

Certainly, the pace of change is challenging all of ussome of those

questions are pretty fundamental, like, is there value to a degree?
The second thing, of course, is always one of resource, and it is not only
where the resources come from, but its how we use the resources. I think
we need to be more entrepreneurial in terms of offering a broader array
of services and support
Be that as it may, let me give you the third. I think that regulatory
intrusion is on the ascent and I think it is becoming a primary contributor
to cost.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

PERSPECTIVE ON CURRENT CHALLENGES TO DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATIONS AND THE PROFESSION

QUESTION 1: GROUP RESPONSE

Distance education organizations face a host of dynamic challenges.

Their leaders must be alert to trends and developments, be
knowledgeable and skilled to analyze organizational position and
environment, and be agile to adapt and act to advance their
organizations missions and interests amid rapid, constant change.
Ebersole (2015) highlights three significant challenges: 1) the pace
of change and questioning of fundamental assumptions about the
nature and value of education and credentials; 2) diversifying
revenue models, strategic resource allocation, and cost
containment; and 3) changing expectations of multiple
constituencies within a heightened regulatory environment.
Leaders must responsibly address these challenges within specific
institutional contexts, which, states Ebersole (2015), depend on:
institutional status (i.e., for-profit/non-profit, public/private); the
communitys economic profile; and scope of institutional geographic
identity with respect to reputation and populations served.

PERSPECTIVE ON CURRENT CHALLENGES TO DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATIONS AND THE PROFESSION

QUESTION 2: WHAT AREAS OF STRATEGIC RESEARCH AND INNOVATION DO YOU SEE

BEING IMPORTANT OR NECESSARY IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS FOR INSTITUTIONS TO
REMAIN ABREAST OF CHANGE AND TO BE COMPETITIVE? HOW DO YOU SEE CBE
INITIATIVES ALIGNING WITH THE FUTURE OF DE?

First, is where we focus from a disciplinary sense in terms of offering

programs just in time or in time to meet industry needs and certainly
an area were focusingweve got two that were focusing on, one we
share with UMUC, and that is cybersecurity.
Another area were looking at, and its more of a niche, is gaming and
simulation. We think that there is tremendous opportunity, and it
relates directly to CBE, is that we need to move beyond multiple
choice questions on standardized examinations as a way of
determining whether someone has more than proficiency or mastery
in a particular subject area.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

PERSPECTIVE ON CURRENT CHALLENGES TO DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATIONS AND THE PROFESSION

QUESTION 2: GROUP RESPONSE

To lead change in a challenging, competitive arena, Ebersole

(2015) pinpoints three current areas for institutional
strategic research and innovation. First, an institution must
establish its disciplinary focus for programs; Excelsiors focus
includes the burgeoning field of cybersecurity and the niche
of sophisticated gaming and simulations to permit
demonstration of abilities in real-life settings.
Second, Ebersole (2015) ties demonstration of competencies
(or mastery) to improved instruments and simulations for
assessment that measure practical application of knowledge.
Third, institutions need to adopt skills, procedures, and
technologies for collecting, analyzing, and acting upon vast
quantities of data related to delivery, learning, and
outcomes (Ebersole, 2015).

A VISION FOR EXCELSIOR COLLEGE AND THE DISTANCE EDUCATION PROFESSION

QUESTION 3: WHAT IS YOUR VISION FOR YOUR CURRENT DISTANCE

EDUCATION ORGANIZATION SPECIFICALLY AND FOR THE DISTANCE
EDUCATION PROFESSION MORE BROADLY?

we see the use of technology, its online at the moment, but it may very well be
something else soon, but that is a part of our delivery methodology. We see
ourselves as a national institution, not a state of New York institution or even a
regional institution.
We are launching a Masters degree in gaming and simulations, which is a follow on
to the research thats being done by our center. We are even hoping to create some
incubators, some support centers where we can help entrepreneurs who may have an
interest of moving into that area.
We are getting ready to launch a major effort to provide training to the federal
government. We have not been in that market but weve been making inquiries and
doing research. But we think there's a significant opportunity in the training and
development arena.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

A VISION FOR EXCELSIOR COLLEGE AND THE DISTANCE EDUCATION PROFESSION

QUESTION 3: GROUP RESPONSE

Ebersoles (2015) vision for Excelsior is to be a national

and internationalinstitution serving adults (i.e.,
post-traditional students) through innovative formats
and delivery methodologies via technology.
He further envisions Excelsior offering comprehensive,
competitive training and development programs to the
public and government sectors in high-demand areas,
such as nursing, public service, gaming and
simulations, and entrepreneurial business incubators.
Offerings should engage and support learners and
differentiate themselves through excellent
instructional design. Additionally, distance education
institutions might assist traditional institutions to
transition to online delivery and services.

A VISION FOR EXCELSIOR COLLEGE AND THE DISTANCE EDUCATION PROFESSION

QUESTION 4: WHAT ROLE DO YOU ENVISION DISTANCE EDUCATION PLAYING

WITHIN THE LARGER SPHERE OF EDUCATION AND IN COMPARISON OR
CONTRAST TO MORE TRADITIONAL FORMS OF EDUCATION?

I dont think any institutionwere already seeing it--we had a

subsidiary called Educators Serving Educators that helps other
institutions go online, along with other services. We need to expand
our service area beyond 50 miles. And so I see distance education
being absolutely essential to the degree completion of our adult
learners, our post-traditional learners.
Anybody that thinks they can ignore technology and meet the
needs of their various constituent groups exclusively with traditional
methods, thats not sustainable in my judgment.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

A VISION FOR EXCELSIOR COLLEGE AND THE DISTANCE EDUCATION PROFESSION

QUESTION 4: GROUP RESPONSE

The

environment Ebersole (2015) envisions requires skilled change

leaders. Pertinent skills Kanter (2008) identifies include: developing
environmental sensitivity; questioning conventional organizational
wisdom; communicating compelling visions; developing coalitions;
developing team ownership; and recognizing individuals who create
change.
Bass and Riggio (2006) call for authentic transformational leaders to
guide institutions on new paths and motivate people to achieve grand
outcomes while developing leadership skills (cf. Yukl, 2013).
Conger (2010) and Yukl (2013) indicate these leaders should be
charismatic, assessing situations critically and comprehensively,
formulating visions and goals, and demonstrating trustworthiness and
expertise.
Institutions need visionary leadership teams characterized by
inspiration, imagination, foresight, insight, and sagacity that provide
strategic management through diverse processes according to shifting
contexts (Westley & Mintzberg, 1989).

MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP STYLE

QUESTION 5: HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE OR DESCRIBE YOUR PREFERRED

LEADERSHIP STYLE(S)?

People had an opportunity to feel like they

had been heard participation. Thats my
preferred style. I cant always do it. As they
say, if a mans overboard, we not going to get
everybody together and take a vote.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP STYLE

QUESTION 5: GROUP RESPONSE

Dr. Ebersole prefers the participatory form of leadership and

management. Kanter (1979) explains that there are virtues
associated with participatory leadership and management.
With power sharing, facts to consider before putting
participatory leadership and management into place:
How

does it come about within an organization.

Will the managers be willing to share?
It will be a time-consuming endeavor.
Organization members will need to be educated to understand the
knowledge gap.
What will happen with the internal politics?
Social and emotional pressures may grow.
Will organization members have great expectations or will reason
prevail?
Problems within the organization will not all go away (p. 223).

MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP STYLE

QUESTION 6: DO YOU SHIFT BETWEEN STYLES OR APPROACHES DEPENDING

ON THE SITUATION?

Im a big believer in Hersey Blanchards

work on leadership Blanchard went on to
create an instrument on situational leadership,
which I think has a tremendous amount of
validity. There are several variables in every
situation. Whats the urgency of the situation?
How able and capable are the individuals that
you are trying to direct in that situation?
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP STYLE

QUESTION 6: GROUP RESPONSE

Dr. Ebersole prefers situational leadership. Sims,

Farah, and Yun (2008) state that situational leadership
offers an intuitive appeal to the individual to derive a
general strategy of how a leader can best develop his
or her own personal theory of leadership which best
works for their unique circumstances. The core of the
strategic approach involves:
Defining

goals for a specific situation,

defining potential leadership types,
Identifying situational conditions,
Matching a leadership style to the particular situation, and
Determining how the match between leadership style and
situation will be made (pp. 149-150).

STRATEGY FOR IMPLEMENTING ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE

QUESTION 7: HOW DO YOU ENCOURAGE AND MOTIVATE OTHERS WHEN

THERE IS RESISTANCE TO CHANGE?

There needed to be a benefit to them. They could see how the

student could benefit; they could see how the institution could
benefit. What they couldnt see was how do I benefit, the
faculty. So we had to really work to build incentives in that
said, you know, you are absolutely essential to the success of
this effort, and were going to interact with you as if we really
mean that. So not only did we provide compensation, but we
also gave their departments the credit accumulation that went
with that. they were able to compensate their faculty
accordingly. Well faculty didnt have a problem with that.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

STRATEGY FOR IMPLEMENTING ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE

QUESTION 7: GROUP RESPONSE

Dr. Ebersole prefers to encourage and motivate

others by showing them the benefit associated
with the change. Herzberg (1987) states that
motivating factors provide positive KITA:
Achievement,
Recognition

for achievement,
Responsibility,
Growth or advancement, and
The work itself. (p. 113).

STRATEGY FOR IMPLEMENTING ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE

QUESTION 8: WHAT STRATEGIES ARE YOU PURSUING FOR EFFECTIVE

ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE?

I think the challenge we have is we have to do a lot of things

simultaneously. Its not a case where we can announce one
major initiative and get it up and running and smoothed out
before embracing another. Those days are over. Weve got to
do multiple things simultaneously. What Im trying to do is to
create a sense of excitement and movement around that so
people want to feel a part of it. I want to make sure that
they're working with accurate information, which means that we
have to be proactive in terms of keeping everybody up to speed
in terms of what our priorities are, what the end goal is.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

STRATEGY FOR IMPLEMENTING ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE

QUESTION 8: GROUP RESPONSE

Dr. Ebersole recognizes that management must

add project management skills to their role.
Stanley (2012) adds that management is a multidisciplined profession and that no two work days
are the same. Changes are constant in
personnel and resources adding to the
complexity within the organization. These
challenges coupled with the global market place
creates additional dimensions to the managers
responsibilities. A manager must be able to:
maximize

organizational resources,
understand employees and what motivates them (p. 21).

STRATEGY FOR ORGANIZATIONAL SURVIVAL IN A DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT

QUESTION 9: DISTANCE EDUCATION IS ALWAYS CHANGING; WHAT POINTS

DO YOU FEEL SHOULD REMAIN CONSTANT MOVING FORWARD?

Well, there is no question that weve got to pay attention

to quality and if we dont pay attention to quality, we will
be responsible for our own demise.
One of the things that Ive said--and Ill be a bit of a
provocateur here but do you know of any other profession
where the manufacturer gets to determine solely themselves
as to whether the end product is any good or not. Yet, that
is exactly what we do.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

STRATEGY FOR ORGANIZATIONAL SURVIVAL IN A DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT

QUESTION 9: GROUP RESPONSE

Leadership should strive to continuously gain

in improvement of employees and the
organizational workings. Deming (2007) adds
that quality improvements which will add to
increase output, and simultaneously to bring
pride of workmanship to people (p. 5).
Less effort is expended with employees
achieving a improved job performance level.

STRATEGY FOR ORGANIZATIONAL SURVIVAL IN A DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT

QUESTION 10: HOW MIGHT A DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATION

PREPARE AND POSITION ITSELF TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE IN THE CURRENT
DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT?

There are multiple things that have to be done and they all have
importance. You have to build a good product. You have to staff it with
faculty that actually care about their students Youve got to have good
marketing and recruitment; you could have the best program in the
world but if no one knows about it, what good is it? Ive been an adult
student; youre an adult student. We absolutely have needs, and it
mostly centers around time. Its not about distance anymore, it is about
time. We are using technology to move time around But I really feel
like weve got to map out the process and be concerned about
standards, high standards; we want rigor in the program. We want
quality
in the program, and we have to look at it from start to finish.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

STRATEGY FOR ORGANIZATIONAL SURVIVAL IN A DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT

QUESTION 10: GROUP RESPONSE

Dr. Ebersole advocates for a quality program

from start to finish which requires a thorough
process to put into place. Deming (2007)
recommends improvement be continuously
improved to ensure that quality and
productivity improvement that decreases
costs (p. 4). This would provide for a greater
level of success for an organization.

ADVICE TO ASPIRING PROFESSIONALS IN THE DISTANCE EDUCATION COMMUNITY

QUESTION 11: HOW SHOULD FUTURE LEADERS IN DISTANCE EDUCATION

PREPARE FOR LEADERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT IN YOUR ORGANIZATION OR
ANOTHER DISTANCE EDUCATION ORGANIZATION?

I think weve done ourselves something of a disservice

when we tend to put leadership on a pedestal, and
somehow management is secondary. I think you are
compromising if you are not striving to be good at both
arenas.
Leadership is uniquely about the human experience,
whereas management is dealing with all kinds of
resources.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

ADVICE TO ASPIRING PROFESSIONALS IN THE DISTANCE EDUCATION COMMUNITY

QUESTION 11: GROUP RESPONSE

In order for future leaders in distance education to prepare for

leadership and management positions Ebersole (2015) offers advice
that emphasizes the importance of being able to differentiate
between management and leadership, as leadership is uniquely
about the human experience and management is more about
dealing with all kinds of resources.
Kotter (2012) agrees and states that the twenty-first-century
employee will need to know more about both leadership and
management than did his or her twentieth-century counterpart
(p. 183). Interestingly, leadership in distance education is quite
different from traditional education leadership, as creating and
conveying technological visions powerful enough to displace
traditional educational models is one of the most challenging
aspects of leadership (Marcus, 2004).
Ultimately, Ebersole (2015) believes a disservice is being done
when leadership is put on a pedestal making management
secondary and those pursuing management or leadership positions
in distance education must be good at both in order to be
successful.

ADVICE TO ASPIRING PROFESSIONALS IN THE DISTANCE EDUCATION COMMUNITY

QUESTION 12: WHAT ADVICE MIGHT YOU OFFER TO THOSE ENTERING OR

NEW TO THE FIELD OF DISTANCE EDUCATION BEYOND RECOMMENDING
DEVELOPMENT OF CERTAIN SKILLS (FOR EXAMPLE TECHNICAL OR
LEADERSHIP SKILLS)?

You can't stay on top of your game if you're not out meeting
and talking to these people. You need to be professionally
plugged into organizations like Sloan C (or they renamed
themselves OLC, I think it is), or UCEA, or UPCA, or WCET.
You could be thinking that youve got the best product in the
world, and then you go out and start visiting with others, you
find out that maybe your product isnt as good as you think it
is.
Ebersole, J. (2015, July 6). Interview with Dr. John Ebersole (J. Boeve, Interviewer) [MP3 Format Sound]. Retrieved from
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B368n6HPF2R3ZHlRUG9QcjNrQW8

ADVICE TO ASPIRING PROFESSIONALS IN THE DISTANCE EDUCATION COMMUNITY

QUESTION 12: GROUP RESPONSE

One must be able to research the different platforms and

technologies currently used in distance education, creating a
multifaceted repertoire that helps to remain current in this fluid
and vastly changing field. Malhotra, Majchrzak, and Rosen (2007)
also emphasize the importance of being knowledgeable, as well as
able to motivate team members to make a major commitment to
the teams mission.
Raven (2008) points out the importance of informational power,
stating that the manager should be able to carefully explain to
the subordinate how the job should be done, providing as much
expertise and experience as possible. Preparing for better
leadership and management in distance education by obtaining
well-rounded credentials is only the first step in becoming a
successful leader/manager. Leaders must know both their
strengths and weaknesses, and they must constantly strive to
acquire all of the training necessary to be successful in their role
(Ebersole, 2015).

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