The Morgazine

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Sticks or Stones Discussion Susan V Nicole D.V. Mary M. Kandy H.J. Jeffrey B Jennifer RH Kellie RF Jamie SL Theresa B Craig B Susan D Brittney LP Shannon DW Shelley CB Lori RDL Douglas LFK Candy SC Nancy F Darth LH Kelly JKT Nancy B Dana S Michelle SM Debie HP Jenifer GR Kris B Jason R Holly QA Andrea CM Davi P Theresa M

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This was originally written and posted on Facebook on Wednesday, October 10, 2012.

Sticks or Stones
One day during recess, a student threw a rock at Josh and it hit him in the head. It left a cut which bled at first, but then it healed some more, and Josh seems to be doing okay this morning. My wife and I are going to be meeting with the assistant principal at the elementary school today to talk to her about the incident. Apparently there were a couple of students, and they threw several stones at Josh, its just fortunate that there was only one which did damage. Josh had been telling us stories about what was going on during recess, but up until yesterday he wasn't getting hurt physically. Recently, he told us that a student, the same student who threw the rock which hit him yesterday, was holding him down on the ground by sitting on him. It is hard to process stories like these. I try to maintain balance by reminding myself that sometimes the kids play games on the recess, and maybe they get a little rough from time to time. I also have to put faith in the fact that there are supervisors out on the recess who can intervene if things get out of hand. Last week after Josh told us that he had been sat on during recess, we both told him that he needed to tell the person to stop, and that he needed to report them to an adult, and stressed the fact that this isn't considered tattling. I told him that if he doesn't saying something to the student who is doing this, and report it, then they aren't going to stop, and that he is just going to be seen as an easy target. Hopefully now that advice has sunk in a little. Yesterday, after he was hit in the head instead of reporting the incident he just went back to his class, and a classmate told him that he was bleeding. It's possible that if Josh hadn't been cut this whole incident would have gone unreported. When we meet with the assistant principal today, we're going to have some questions about how the school will be handling this. The handbook says that the district has a low tolerance when it comes to throwing stones--it mentions it specifically. I know that if my son had been the one throwing stones, he would need to accept the consequences, both from the school and at home. I was wondering if there are other parents who have heard stories like these about recess from their students, and if you have been able to work with the school to improve things for your child. I'm interested in hearing from parents from Shepherd, but I welcome stories from other school districts as well. For other parents, I just wanted to urge you to pay attention to the things that your child is telling you about what happens during recess or in between classes. Maybe, like me, there seems to be a grey area between "playing games" and violence or bullying. What I've realized after yesterday is that there is a thin line between the two.

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If you would like to know how the meeting with the principal goes, let me know in the comment and I'll follow up.

Update: The meeting went well. We will continue to talk to Josh about speaking up at school if there are any more problems in the future. Join the conversation on Facebook.

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Discussion
The responses to my post were amazing and filled with a lot of stories and advice relating to bullying. I wanted to include everyones comments from Wednesday because I feel like theyve made a huge contribution to my sons story. Ive used only first names and initials to protect their identity. You can join the live discussion on Facebook.

Susan V
Love you guys!! Your more patient sounding than I would be!!!!

Nicole D.V.
2 years ago when my oldest was in 1st grade he was bullied on the school bus by a 3rd grader. I spoke to the principal and to rectify the situation, they placed my son in the front seat. I was angry. I felt that they punished my son instead of the bully. Make sure they don't do anything like that to Josh.

Mary M.
I am so sorry this happened to Josh. In this day and age, the intact family is becoming more and more rare. Unfortunately it is the kids that suffer most from this and many act out in an effort to have some control. And for many kids, as you say, the line between playing and violence is indeed becoming blurred. I hope the administrators handle this appropriately. Please keep us posted.

Kandy H.J.
I am so sorry this happened to your son. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. I am glad your following up on it. Your kids are your most prized possession. Nicole, I agree with you. I would have felt the same way. Its just too bad that the child who is doing the bullying is the one who goes unpunished. Jon keep us posted.

Jeffrey B
It seems to be going on in the classroom too in 2nd grade.my little girl been telling me some stories too...i guess i'll be contacting the school...it seems shepherd has a big bullying problem going on.

Jennifer RH
Bullying is a very big issue. A thousand times worse with girls, as they are sneaky belittling and did i say sneaky. Thankfully boys leave"marks". This way you are alerted. Unfortunately i have dealt with bullying in a couple of schools, and have always had a difficult time getting the schools too help out very much, but with girls, hard to " prove" as they are quiet and sneaky about it. Girls break girls down into believing they are ugly stupid unlikable. It breaks my heart. My biggest concern as a parent is how my child is receiving the info bullied into them. So i give my children a perspective that i believe keeps their person in tact, and their confidence unshaken. I explain to them the dynamics of a bully and i remind them that they are probably

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bullied at home jealous or really needing love and just arent getting it. They see our kids who are loved do well in school or whatever and pick on them because they need to feel better about themselves and this is the only way they know how. Its a delusion of power,especially when they can tally other kids to bully with them...it helps the bully get through another loveless or difficult day whatever the individual story. I remind my kids to pray that these kids get what they are lacking so they dont feel the need to bully. I remind them not to take it personal,even though it is hard especially at a young age. I remind them God made them just as he wanted them and they are Gods artwork beautiful and perfect. I remind them to trust in that. I fill them up and try to educate the dynamics of the situation as age appropriate as possible. I explain physical touching or gun threats as my one daughter received this year NEED to be shared immediately with an adult at school and me or Dad. There are bullies in every school and the best we can do at home as parents is to fill our kids with love support and knowledge. How they respond to the bully can have a big impact some times,one very big thing to always watch for and talk about is the kids who eventually take their own lives due to being bullied throught school. That breaks my heart and so i really try to help my kids look at the BIG picture as best as possible so they see how weak the bully really is. Jealousy is usually a big factor in girls and feeling in control or power i suspect for boys although I'm assure it can go both ways. Anyway beefy passionate afoot this topic...i will force myself to stop, but i hope your son funds a good way to see this situation without questioning is worth. He is the lucky one, he has a great family life to come home to each day...does the bully?

Kellie RF
I agree with Nicole. Don't let your son get punished for something he didn't do. You need to make sure it's taken care of. I hope talking to the administration is all it takes. If they don't take care of it, I hope you will keep pushing until they do. It takes parents getting involved to change things. Jon Morgan Susan B.V, I vented on Facebook so that I could collect my thoughts and be a little more calmer during the meeting.

Jamie SL
Keep us posted Jon. I hate to think kids are bullying and being bullied so young. Jon Morgan Nicole DV, Mary M, and Kandy HJ, thank you for your support. I'm planning on posting a quick update now that I'm back from the meeting (my wife had to leave for work right after). The meeting went well.

Theresa B
I am so so sorry your going through this Jon.... Jon Morgan Jeffrey B, my point in the post is that as parents we need to be vigilant about what we hear is going on around our children during school. My belief is that bullying is a problem that our

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society has, not just the schools. It is just more prevalent in the schools because that's where kids spend most of their time during the week and interact. I'm glad that you've decided to work with the school on the issues your daughter is having.

Craig B
When you have the meeting Jon get after them. No one be it child or adult should be allowed to take comfort or fun from your childs life! Jon Morgan Jennifer RH, you've made some really great points and you've given strong advice to your kids about bullying. Thank you for posting! I agree that bullies are often victims themselves, and they behave this way to help themselves feel better about themselves. When you think about it, its sad, because if there is bullying at home, and the child goes out and bullies someone else, our son or daughter is really being caught up in a vicious cycle that they shouldn't have anything to do with. Or, as you've said, kids are being targeted for being "too smart" or "too fortunate." Jon Morgan Kellie RF, we talked to the assistant principal, and things are being handled. She is still talking all of the students involved (two of them were throwing the stones at Josh, but there were others nearby). She will also be talking to Josh and encouraging him to speak up if he is picked on again. Theresa B I would like to know what they school says John....I am not in shepherd anymore but....Know a lot about bullying as i am the parent of a special needs student...The school district here Has a zero tolerance to bullying policy in place across the entire district...and EVERYONE is taught if You See something Say Something...When you said that the kid had been sitting on Him and it escalated to him getting hit with a rock...I was Thinking WHERE the HECK are the Supervisors and Teachers...that are suppose to monitor the playground...

Susan D
I know from my years working in the elementary school that boys do not like to tell. They'll put up with stuff quite awhile before they tell the adult. But a good supervisor or administrator, when informed, will step in to nip it in the bud. The best thing you can do is what you're already doing....meeting with the person in charge. If you don't get some kind of tangible plan, then go to the next higher administrator! Jon Morgan Craig B, I agree. One of the things that I thought about while I was driving to the school was that I wanted to make sure that the school didn't think of my son as just another student, that he has parents who are ready to stand up for him.

Brittney LP

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thats sad. i remembered being bullied from 2nd grade up until about freshmen year.. it put my esteem so low that i ended up not really making any friends in high school until i moved schools senior year. encourage josh to talk and make friends no matter how much he is bullied! i wish i would have had one good friend during school.. Jon Morgan Theresa B, I have to assume that the playground is too big of a place for a supervisor to be able to see everything that is going on at all times. But, still, I have to wonder how kids are able to throw multiple stones at someone without being spotted by an adult. I almost asked about supervision during recess, but I couldn't think of a way to ask without sounding too critical of the school, and I still have to assume that they are doing all that they can. Jon Morgan Thanks, Susan D ... so far, the plan is that they are going to talk to the other students, and there will be consequences. I think that we will have closure on this, but we will still need to work with Josh on speaking up when stuff like this happens.

Susan D I bet he'll learn that through this from his parents doing the right thing.

Theresa B No you are entitled to be Critical...John...you send him there to get an education...IT is there job to Keep him Safe from the time...he gets there til he Leaves and anything else is totally unacceptable...and if the play ground is to big for the supervisor to see all...then...they need more supervisors...if it took him getting clocked in the head with a rock...to even get reported SOMETHING IS very very wrong...and you have to wonder how many others are being bullied without anyone seeing or saying something...YOU are his dad...You have to stand up and Say Hell no...NO one is doing this to my child EVER... Theresa B Kids that are bullied...are endanger of...Having it break their spirit and there very being....Bullying can turn a kid suicidal.....YOU have to protect him... Susan D Yep follow up and let them know you're on top of it. I have a feeling you already intend on doing that.

Shannon DW
My friend Cynthia said her daughter is getting bullied on the bus by a girl and its getting really bad. Jon Morgan

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Theresa B, I agree. What I mean is that at the time it wasn't something I was sure I wanted to get into, and being critical wouldn't have helped the situation, and I wasn't ready to really have a conversation about it. The meeting needed to be confined to discussion about what happened, our son, and any follow up the school was doing. And, at that point we had covered those things. Theresa B Oh okay...have you ever seen the movie bully...? it was a documentary that followed the lives of children and parents...That were dealing with this...and some of the parents...it was too late...The child committed suicide and left a note saying that they could not take it anymore

Shelley CB
Love to you all and Josh!!! Especially! Please keep is updated Jon Morgan I haven't seen it but have heard about it. I definitely don't want the same things to happen to our kids. I'm also the product of bullying during school, so I am especially sensitive to it when I hear that its happening to my kids. Theresa B Me too John I think that is why i had such a strong reaction...also like I said...I have a child with Aspergers syndrome...so getting picked on, is something that happens often...Lucky for us she has friends that will say something if someone is picking on her...

Lori RDL
Keep us all posted Jon. I don't have any children, but I am hearing that Bullying is become way out of hand in the schools. I think it was out of hand when we were in school. I got it in grade school and it has left a scar. And bullying can lead up to other things later in life if its not delt with. And unfortuanatly I have also heard that the ones being bullied do get overlooked and that so angers me. Do stand up to the school if they try and put the blame on Josh. Hes the only protection that he has against this matter. Let me know what happens. Good luck and love you guys! Jon Morgan One thing that's really fascinating, is that just within this thread there have been three comments saying that their child has been experiencing problems at schools with bullying or suspected bullying, and other parents have shared stories about dealing with this in the past on their child's behalf. This just shows how common this kind of behavior really is. It is so easy to hear about something happening and rationalize it so that it could be something else, but the statistics within this thread alone seem to say that it will be what we first suspect that it is.

Douglas LFK
I'm sorry to hear that Jon! Makes me angry!

Candy SC

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So sorry that this happened to Josh, and I am glad that you are on top of it. If it continues though, I would not feel one bit critical to ask them to get more supervisors for recess. It only makes sense that it's alot of kids to watch. And after observing Westons recess time once this year I can see how watching the group as a whole, lots of incidents are missed. You'd have to watch individual groups to catch everything. Weston has had some bullying issues both on recess and on the bus. I try and talk it through with him and help him learn how to respond...but it's so true that the kids don't want to tell or speak up about it. You know how much Weston likes to talk! And he is not a shy kid. But he just doesn't tell an adult when something happens. He tells me when he gets home. I had to have him give a note to the bus driver letting him know what was happening on the bus. I repeatedly told him to let the bus driver know if someone was picking on him, but he doesn't :o( Kellie RF Our school has a zero tolerance too, but our principal and some of the staff don't follow it. Our school encourages students to speak up, but do nothing when they do. I am one of many trying to fight that here. Jon, I am glad the school is handling it. Things were much better in our school when we had a principal that addressed the problems.

Nancy F
Coming late to this discussion, but-- while there have always been schoolyard bullies, bullying has either escalated or come into the public eye more, or both. I believe that kids learn to bully from watching media and from living in homes and cultures that value "winning" at all costs. This story makes me angry, too. The fact that Josh has solid, in-his-corner parents will make a big difference. Your goal is to keep him safe, by giving him the right tools--not to start assigning blame. Schools tend to become defensive precisely because they can't supervise every child every moment, but they're legally liable to do so. And--kids are very skilled at evading monitors. Bullies get a psychological rush from "winning" and schoolyard violence, besides. You were right to approach this as a collaborative task with the school; I don't know anything about Shepherd schools, but I have never met a school administrator or teacher or playground aide who "didn't care" about bullying. Often, they're not sure what to do (or do the wrong things) but have good intentions. Figuring out what Josh needs--how to give him some control over the situation-- will probably take some patience and research. Again, Josh is lucky to have you working on his behalf. Jon Morgan Thank you, Nancy F. Kellie RF, one thing I'll always remember about middle school is the work the principal did to encourage respect between students.

Darth LH
Looking into it is school speak for we don't have an answer and don't know how to handle it. They sure knew how to handle Noah for helping Josh but I still haven't heard how they are handling the girl who started the issue. Jon Morgan

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That's a good point, Darth LH. In some situations, the bully wins whether you do something about it or not. When the student being bullied--or their friends--try to stand up for themselves, they risk getting in trouble. Schools see the bullying, but at the same time they still seem blind to it. When Josh and the other student were being spoken to yesterday, the priority seemed to be about getting both sides of the story, in case Josh had done something to provoke it. Under the circumstances, you have to wonder why that makes a difference when you consider that Josh was hit in the head with a rock. What could he have possibly done to justify that? Perhaps they need all of the details for some kind of report, but when it comes down to it nobody should be throwing rocks at anybody else. I'm sorry that Noah got mixed up into this, but glad that he was there to at least try to help Josh out.

Kelly JKT
Sorry John that your boy is being bullied. Definitely stay involved and keep active communication with the school. My son has had to deal with bullying situations and it's heartbreaking but I kept very active with the principal and his teachers. Keep encouraging josh to report the incidences. Hopefully the school will follow up. No one deserves to feel unsafe Jon Morgan One thing that I don't think that we see--as parents or as administrators--is the toll that certain types of behavior takes over time. Things like name calling, pushing, or other kinds of insults. When it starts, I at first encourage my son to be strong and try to brush it off or to say something to an adult, but that's still a lot to endure for one person. By the time parents or administrators get involved, its easy to focus on just the behavior or on the stories that the two sides tell about a specific incident, but I think that sometime I even forget that it can all be accumulative. Whatever happened yesterday, it didn't start yesterday--it began last month, or with the school year, or maybe it started over the summer or some time last year. Also bullying doesn't keep to a schedule, so it can happen outside of school. I know that school's can't be expected for what happens out in the neighborhood or during the weekend, but come Monday anything that has happened will feed into the next incident. It needs to be addressed as a whole, and not as a single incident or moment.

Nancy B
were was the recess teacher or who ever is suppose to be with the kids.? Jon Morgan They have recess monitors or supervisors. Nancy B yes let me know Jon Morgan okay

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Dana S
My experience... Was with an outside school related sport. What I found was that my daughter who was being bullied... Was the trouble maker simply because we brought it to the supervisors attention! I had to get down right bitchy and call out every card in the book until they took me seriously. Most parents with kids involved sat down to a chat and discussed what was going on. We found out that it was one girl who was instigating it all and was a super good actress!( she would leave crying as if she was being picked on)!! Once the kids understood that it wasn't going to be tolerated it seemed to fall apart.... It's really tough... Good luck, but never quit on your kid!! Keep going higher until you get resolution. Can't wait to hear your follow up!

Michelle SM
Jon- I have been an advocate for my son since kindergarten , against the bullying that he has endured. All of this is good advice, telling him to stick up for himself and tell an adult and all that. BUT, if And when I learned something was going on, I called, emailed, and had meeting upon meeting to let it be known that we as a family, were not "going to take it"! The anti bullying atmosphere out in the world seems to concentrate on teaching the kids that are being bullied and how they are some how at fault for not reporting being bullied, so there is no way to know what is happening. It is frustrating ! Why they don't work on the BULLY'S and their families is beyond me. The best advice I can give is to demand follow up, and a report back in to how it will be handled. And should it escalate, what are the next steps of discipline for the bully? What do they suggest you do to protect your son and what are they planning on doing to protect him while he is at school ? Take pictures of his injury for future reference. Show up to the school for lunch or recess to let the bully and the school know your son has parents that are willing to monitor things themselves... Randomly. I feel your frustration and pain, you are not alone in this , be firm and be an advocate for your son with the school. If you are asking, watching, and well complaining, the will start to watch closer , so they can give you better explanations when you enquire. Hang in there! You are doing the right thing with this meeting!

Debie HP
Jon, my daughter Brittney LP obviously knows you and commented on this, but I could not help commenting as well. I live in Jackson & my kids go to a smaller school in the JPS system. They are 10 & 6. My 10 year old daughter has experienced years of bullying in one fashion or another mostly at recess or on the bus. Very nasty comments have been made about her, even ones of a sexual nature. I too was a victim of years of bullying and am sensitive to this issue. I was encouraged to read what one post talked of how she explained it to her kids that a bully is probably being bullied themselves. I tell that to my kids too. That they are lucky enough to come home to parents who love and want them. This seems to resonate with my daughter but I know it still hurts. Good luck to you!!! It's tough!!!!

Jenifer GR

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I have a zero tolerance for bullying!!! ZERO!!!! No parent should fear the safety of their child at school nor should a child need to worry if or when it can happen again!!! Absolutely take it up to the principal, go all the way to the superintendent if need be!!! Good luck to you, keep us up dated..I am a Fenton mom of two, my SENIOR is five foot two weighing in at a wee 120. (small) my 8th grader is maybe four ten and weighs 70 lbs. (smaller yet!) I understand how picking on the weak can happen..get in front of the problem now so your boy WANTS to go to school...

Kris B
I wish you all the luck in the world and all the hugs for Josh. Let me tell you what - I hated Shepherd schools. My son endured HORRIBLE bullying EVERY SINGLE DAY for 4 years. I spent more time in that office than I can count. He spent lots of time in the nurses office too. And when he came home with an ice pack on his head and the nurse didn't call - I went again. And also in the social workers office all the time. It got really old, and nothing we did or how much we went in there made it stop. She told Andrew that when he was bullied he should make a list of who did it and bring it straight to her in the office. So he did. And then she just threw his list in the trash, right in front of him and told him she'd take care of it. I got so sick and tired of that school. Bullying there is rampant and horrible. Granted, its everywhere and intolerable, but there its much worse than you would think. If I had not been moving, I would have considered homeschooling for him. On the flip side - he loves his new school. Zero bullying so far, and he says everyone's been super nice to him! Yay!

Jason R
Jon my friend! I applaud you and can't thank you enough for sharing your story! Thank you for modeling great communication with your kids and the school. More parents need to react how you have and I'm so glad you're a part of our Live Now team!

Holly QA
Horrible, absolutely horrid... And a complete failure of the school system.... I hope you get answers and action because no child should have to deal with this at school.

Andrea CM
Keep in mind teachers are between a rock and a hard place with most bully situations. Interventions should be followed through but many bullies come from parents who bully. Good luck. Susan D I like Michelle SM's advice to let it be known as a family that "we're not going to take it" and to pop in to the school once in a while so that your face is familiar. We've done that too; it's good advice. Love the "as a family" part!

Davi P
Something to continue to discuss with his teacher specifically is whether there are specific bullies in his class, or if the incidents happen across the class groups while at recess. That

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will help you to determine if there is a general problem 'fitting in' or if he is a target. Knowing the difference might help him to identify tattling versus standing up for himself. In my class, we certainly have leaders and followers, and then we have kids we try to desperate, because bad choices are made when they combine! Susan BV is Josh giving out all their names? Make sure they discipline, find out what they are going to do to them. Make sure Josh knows that he can tell you everything, which I am sure you do. Again you are still being more patient then me..!! Michelle SM The "fitting in" or not has nothing to do with kids/bullies throwing rocks at him! I am pretty sure if he is getting pelted with rocks , he is a Target! And "tattling" ? You can't be serious.... I am sorry but your post reads like some how this is his fault or something is wrong with him. All kids have a right to go to school and feel safe and protected. Not like they are part of the problem! This is why Jon- you and your wife must strongly advocate for your son. I am afraid that there are more then a few educators out there that think this same way and with all due respect, this view is part of the problem!

Theresa M
Wanted to add, we know the students are being punished, but apparently legally the school cannot tell us how. Although hints were dropped as to some of what it entails.

Davi P Nope. My post is not about fault. My post is about the behavior that occurred. It is helpful to know if there are one or two students that are bullies, trolling for kids, or if there is a problem within a class. In my class, for instance, we have recess individually. So if a child is hurt or bullied, the problem will occur under the supervision of a 1 to 25 ratio, supervised by a teacher, and if bullying happens i see it in the classroom as well. In my daughter's upper el. class, recess occurs in a 100 child play group, supervised by four teachers who stand in the middle of the playground (which is big, big enough to accommodate 100 children. ) as I stated, in addition to meeting with the principal, which Jon had said he was doing, I recommended finding out if his son is being bullied *in class* or if it is not occurring in the classroom. Since his son did not want to report bullying behavior, and did in fact not report that he was injured, but a classmate was concerned and commented on it, it seems that maybe he does not need to be concerned with being a target, as Jon mentioned, but the entire friggin' recess group needs a discussion about bullying. Finally, since Jon mentioned that he was seeing the principal, I wanted to advocate for open communication with a classroom teacher. Personally, I like being in the loop and advocate for my students. Also, I can tell you how they behave on a consistent basis, while my principal cannot. So yes, I have experience as both a teacher and a parent (and a student) with bullying and within behavior. And yes, I agree that advocating for our children is important. It's even more important that we look to create an advocate out of the adults who are in charge of the bulk of our children's day.

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Michelle SM Davi, I agree with your second post much more than the first. Staying in the loop and being a advocate for your students is admirable . However, most kids that are being bullied and /or injured by the bullies are ashamed that they are being targeted and won't say anything or"tattle" on the Bully and in fact isn't that what the Bully is counting on? I do not envy the difficulty that teachers have with all that teaching encompasses. But, the kids doing these things(bullies) are the ones that need help and punishment for their behavior. It is so rough out there! My daughter is 4 and started preschool last month, and she was bullied.... At 4! Everyone needs to talk, talk, and talk some more about all of it.

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