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Dialogs With Non Muslims on TopixVol.

9B

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Preface: In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious the Most Merciful. All praise is to Allah the Creator and the Cherisher of this Universe, and He peace and blessings be on to His Last and Final Prophet and Messenger Mohammad and to family and companions of prophet. After that. It was almost a year when I published the last list of my dialogs with Non Muslims on the threads of TOPIX. That was Vol.8 in that series of dialogs. I had imagined that it would be my last such list, but as they say, old habits die hard, I kept on keeping secret file of some dialogs which I thought needed to be preserved. A list of 260-275 such questions and answers were compiled over the period of last year and they are now published on SCRIBD for benefits of those who did not read them on TOPIX. It is not possible to avoid duplication of Questions and Answers from the previous eight series as people basically pose the same basic questions about Islam and Muslims, over and over again. I therefore cannot say that all the answers are unique and not covered in the earlier series. But may be some new arguments and some side issues have been added. People may find that my answers are a bit longer and more space is given for the questions. I have presented this series into three forms. The first one is the Master List which lists all Questions and answers in a tabular form. Then from this two other volumes are formed, called 9B and 9C, which present the questions and answers in book form. As I have mentioned in the preface of each series, that these are not Authentic answers from Islamic Scholar but from some one who is a student of Islam and limited in both knowledge and understanding. So If I make any mistake in my answers, I seek forgiveness and Pardon from Allah and if my answers are correct, then it is a Mercy from Allah. I wish that these answers would give information to those who read this type of dry literature. Moiz Uddin Qidwai Jubail, Jan 10, 2013

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Index:

Chapter-1 Chapter-2 Chapter-3 Chapter-4 Chapter-5

Atheism Christianity Hindus and Hinduism Jews, Isreal and Palestine Miscellaneous Subject

Q-1 to Q-11 Q-12 to Q39 Q-40 to Q-71 Q-72 to Q 102 Q103 to Q127

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Chapter-1 On Atheism and Atheists


[QUOTE who="B of 3"] Q.-1 First it is a misnomer to say that atheist don't "believe" in anything...atheism is simply the lack of belief in deities... to answer your question though...no, I do not know of anything that happens to you after you die...no one does, but if you think you do, then you need to have more evidence than the musings of bronze age mystics. [/QUOTE] Ans. A. What Atheists do believe in? 01. According to my definition Atheists are the one who do not believe in any Creator of this Universe and in any religion or Divine guidance. 02. From one side, these are people who have rejected the religious beliefs of their parents and societies which are unable to satisfy their queries. So they are real thinkers and rebels of the society. 03. Then from another side, they are the most unreasonable people, because they see this big universe and everything in it and how it is working with perfect coordination, and still do not feel any urge to find out about who created this universe and what is the purpose of our life on this earth. 04. Not trying to find answer to these questions and them simply feeling content that they are on right path and all people who follow religions make them most illogical and unreasonable people on this earth. 05. It is my view, that if some one has become Atheist because his religion seems to not answer their queries, then he should study Islam and Quran with an open mind and it would provide answers to all of their doubts and queries. 06. But then these atheists take Islam as their biggest enemy and do not try to study it. The medicine which was to cure their sickness is never tried by these so called Atheists.so they end their life in confusion and negation. No society is made on negative phenomenon. B. What happens after death?

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1. I know as an Atheist you will answer that nothing happens after deathbecause you never thought that their might be a purpose of human life after all. 2. If nothing happens after death, then there need not be any morality in this world. No one should speak truth and help weak and neglected people of society. \ No one should serve his poor parents and relatives who are in need. No one should do any charitable work on this earth, because if once you die, it is end of matter, then why should you not lead a selfish life? 3. Our religion teaches us that this life is a period of test for us. The results are declared once we die and go away from this world. 4. The time to prepare for life after death is while you are alive. 5. So the best thing for Atheist people like you is find out a way that you never die!! Can you do it? I bet you can!! Have Good Luck!!

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[QUOTE who="Liberty"] Q-2 Oh are you basically using the stale old " Look at the beautiful trees! Only a loving God would make that! How could you look at the beauty in the world and think a God didn't create that " argument? LMFAO I didn't ask for your feelings on your Santa in the sky it's nice that the myth brings you comfort as Santa clause brings a child comfort. But your personal feelings do not offer proof. [/QUOTE] Ans. The beauty is the secondary part, first part is the basic creation itself. It is not in any human's power to grow a basic tree itself, forget about the fruits and so many other details!! In Quran Allah says "it is not in their (i.e. human's) power to grow any tree" And when you come to the beauty part of it, the argument gets more sensuous. Look at different fruits, their colors and their taste and even their shape and packing and wonder, could it have happened by themselves? What that has to do with evolution of plants and vegetation kingdom. Just cut open a watermelon and look at the color scheme there, the arrangements of Green, White, Pink and black seeds woven inside!! Can you find a better color scheme? And what that had to do with evolution and to whom the fruit of watermelon was intended? The beauty and proof of Creator and His Wisdom and Mercy and Knowledge are scattered every where in this vast universe, they are so innumerable that we cannot even count it. But there are people like you, who close their eyes to every thing, they have learnt a few Formulas and then they lump every thing under the blanket of Evolution, Big Bang and Nature!! It is you my dear lady that has to open your eye and look around you.

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[QUOTE who="Jack"] Q-3. Apparently, you have never heard of Isotopes.- Atoms having the same number of protons, but different numbers of neutrons, represent the same element, but are known as different isotopes of that element. The isotope for an element is specified by the sum of the number of protons and neutrons. Examples of different isotopes of an element are carbon 12(the most common, non-radioactive isotope of carbon) and carbon 14 (a less common, radioactive isotope of carbon). I find other flaws in your essay that would bore the socks off me to recount. I do not mean this in a demeaning way, it would just be too boring. [/QUOTE] Ans. Contrary to what you assumed, I have heard about Isotopes and I do not know what is the purpose of your mentioning it in the context of the post of Mr. Yahya which I posted. He is not writing a book on Physics, this is a general subject, showing the power and wisdom of our Creator. He explained what an atom is supposed to be in common terms, if there are many Isotopes of the same element, they are also created by the same Creator and they also have a purpose. The Isotopes are also well known and well formed and it is not random that any element would have as many isotopes as it wishes. The discussion is about the Creator, His Power and His knowledge and His Wisdom, not a lecture on physics. I thank you for your effort to teach us about Isotopes in very easy to understand language though!!

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[QUOTE who="Henry"] Q-4. 01. One is for a 100% sure: There never was a "creator" or a similar myth. 02. We do not know what the world is, but what we know is not to know how big the universum is. 03. Religion gives us a wrong idea of our world. So religions are more or less fairy tales. Science is the only and SOLE news we have about the world. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Just because you keep on repeating there is no Creator, it would become true. You have to prove that there is no creator or things can create themselves and the physical laws can create themselves. Unless you are able to prove and demonstrate them, your rantings are like one who closes his eyes and shouts, it is nighttime when actually it is day time with sun shining brightly. Every thing in our Universe is crying with a loud voice, I am created by the same Merciful Creator, who created everything else in this universe. 02. What we Know about our world and universe is much less than what is hidden from our eyes. Do you think sending a few probes and putting a telescope out there has answered all our questions and provided us with all answers? 03. I do not know about which religion you are talking about, In Islam and in Quran we find a very clear idea about their creation. What is science and how did it originate? From where the scientists are getting these brain waves? Why scientists of our times are asking questions and getting ideas which scientists of bygone days were unable to ask? These are the questions that demand answers. But people like you are just repeating parrot like there is no creator, there never was a creator What you need is just a feel of death and death pangs would provide all answers to your rant There is no Creator, there was no Creator because that would be the time when you will be going to meet your Creator!!

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[QUOTE who="War is over"] Q-5 01. An ex-atheist told me that it was unscientific for atheist scientists to claim that there is no God. No science has yet proven either way that there is or is not a God. Modern science cannot yet explain the origin of life on Earth. So I think it is fair to say there is no way to prove any particular religion, or the 'no religion' alternative of atheism. There is an impasse. 02. I argue that with 100,000 extant religions currently practiced on Earth, what are the odds that any one religion is 'correct?' Perhaps 1 in 100,000, eh? 03. What if Zoroastrianism is the right one? Maybe the Bahai faith? How about the Church of the Nazarene? Perhaps Scientology? Which one? The one your parents sent you to as a child? How do we know which one is right? 04. Are religions like football/soccer teams, in that 'our team' is always the 'right one?' 05. How about all of those people in the 'wrong' religions? Is it their fault? Did they choose the wrong religion? Did their parents choose the wrong religion for them as a child? Whose fault is it? What are the chances of a Pakistani child being exposed to the Church of the Nazarene, or Scientology? What are the chances of a white child in south Alabama being exposed to Zoroastrianism, or the Bahai faith? 06. Do we all have a fair chance of being exposed to the 'right' or 'correct' religion? Are some of us 'luckier' than others when it comes to being exposed to the 'correct' or 'right' religion? Ans. Pardon me to post a reply to your very interesting post, I would answer to salient points raised by you: Science and existence of God: You are right, science has nothing to do with either confirming or rejecting whether God exists or not. Because science only deal with Material world and God is not material. But even if Science cannot confirm or reject existence of God, scientists when seeing this huge Universe and the way every part of it being governed and regulated by the

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same laws, should realize that there must be some very Powerful, Knowledgeable and Wise planner behind all of that. The chances of existence of God are therefore many order of degrees higher than His not existence to a True Scientist. B. Which of the world 100,000 religions is correct? The problem is that you do not accept any religions claim on verbal basis. The moment you ask certain basic questions, you would realize that many of them are continuation of same religion and they have a common thread running along them. And once should not analyze all of these so called 100,000 religions, analysis of worlds major religion (that is professed by 90-99 % of worlds population is enough). C. What if I chose the wrong religion? If one after all sincere efforts and evaluation chose the Wrong religion, he or she shall have an excuse before God that they tried their best. But they must know that God knows the secrets of hearts and it is not possible to hide your motives from Him. And God does not disappoint any one, how can He mislead someone to wrong religion seeing that he is sincere and truthful in his search? D. Are religions like Football teams? Actually religions are not at all like Football field and they are not fighting a game with each other as to who to be the winner. The religions are a way of life, very few of the worlds religions are really missionary. E. Who is responsible for making wrong Choice? It is correct that parents have to do a lot in selecting religion for their children, and majority of worlds population is born into religions that they follow thru out their lives. But the fault is not fully with ones parents. Once the child grows up, it is his or her choice to either follow the religion of their parents or search for the True religion. In out time it is not difficult to know about teachings of different religions and find out which one is correct.

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But people have a very summary view regarding religions. F. Does every one of us gats Fair Chance to know about the True Religion You are right, people do not get fair chance to know about true religion. Their lives revolve around their surroundings and they are content to follow and blend with the society they live in. But any one who has thirst and quest in his or her mind to find the True Religion and follows it up sincerely is guided to the true path by the Creator of All religions. Conclusion: It was a very important post, I have tried to answer it in few words. But the issues raised are fundamental. I wish that you raise one point at a time and we discuss each of them is some more detail

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[QUOTE who=" "] Q-6. You have it the wrong way around. The earth's atmosphere was not created for humans, in the same way it wasn't created for the malaria mosquito. You can interpret the "holy books" to make it say what you want, and people do, thats why religious bloodshed is still a scourge on humanity. Living in Saudi you should know how religious crackpots want to control every aspect of a persons being that no other religion is contemplated, a kind of enslavement of the mind, you will believe our bullshit or we will kill you. It must be a living hell. [/QUOTE] Ans. The Earth did not create its own atmosphere, did it? The Power which created it did for all living species on this earth, what is wrong in it? You try to interpret Holy books in your own way and then let us see what people think about it. Religious bloodshed is a very small percentage of Non religious blood shed that we have witnessed over past 100 years (the age of so called Atheism). I give below the list of major wars in the world for past 100 years, please tell me what religious issues were at stake in these wars and which religion participated in those wars. a. b. c. d. e. f. g. h. i. j. k. l. m. WW-1 WW-2 Korean War Vietnam War Arab Israeli wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, Palestinian uprising. Iran Iraq War 1979-1987. Gulf War of 1991 Afghanistan invasion of 2002. Iraq Invasion of 2003. Indo pak wars on Kashmir in 1948, 56, 1965. Bangladesh war of independence of 1971. Cambodian wars of KHEMR ROUGE. LTTE wars in Sri Lanka

Please tell me what religious issues were at stake in these wars and which religion participated in these wars. Why then you people keep on blaming only religions and religious people of taking part in wars and blood shed?

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If enslavement of mind is any criterion it is you people who are to be blamed more than us. [QUOTE who="OB"] Q-7 01. If your Creator "always was" then whatever he is made of, also "always was". Energy comprises everything in the universe and has never been created nor destroyed. If the basic substance of everything (energy) has never been created nor destroyed, then no creator was ever required. 02. Also, your argument breaks down with your "always was" argument because the initial posit is anything complex and wonderful had to have a creator. The creator is "complex and wonderful" therefore he also had to have a creator or your initial argument is bull crap from the get go. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Who told you that "energy was always there and was not created"? Energy was "also created" at the time of Big Bang!! The Creator is not part of this Universe, in fact no Creator puts its part into its creations!! So the Creator is separate from this Universe and not part of this Universe. This is the "basic problem" of all these Atheists, that they have no clear concept of either Universe or the Creator of this Universe. 02. Even if any thing is not complex and straightforward, even then it has to has a Creator. A paper pin and a Super Computer, both need to be created, they cannot create themselves or get created by chance. The complexity of Universe only demonstrates the "mathematical impossibility" that any thing so complex and with so many variables can create itself or can come by chance. So my argument stands where it it and does not break down.

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[QUOTE who="HP"] Q-8. MUQ, 01. proof of what? I don't think anybody have proof either the existence of God, or religion. 02. We just live believing there is some power out there that control and made the world. I go from moral principle part and I disagree anybody against others, regardless of anything. Now don't get me wrong, I am against people too but try to not. Try to change my way of thinking. Become a better human that God wants. Those people that are against muslims really do not the religion well or was thought to believe islam is wrong and they stick to that part. I get off that religious hole people or families want to put me in and got free from religious cult lol. Most of you might say, you are right but the proof is not really proof but someone writing lol. just saying. [/QUOTE] Ans. 1. Proof of God and His existence: a. Many people who think that they are very smart and very reasonable and very logical when they ask religious people to "show them where is their God". While in reality they are very childish. b. The proof for existence of God is not Physical proof but a proof thru reason and logic. It is not that God cannot be seen, but it is because of limitation of our eyes that we cannot see Him!! And one who analyzes how limited is our eyes and its vision would have least doubt to acknowledge that "if we cannot see anything, that does not mean it does not really exist". c. The same goes for our scientific and electronic equipment and everything, they can detect the presence of material things and material forces, but any thing which is not made of material, they are incapable of detecting it. Therefore we cannot say that if anything is not detected by our Scientific Gadgets it does not really exist. d. So the proof of presence of God is hidden in the exploration and analysis of the Universe and all that is available with us. The more we analyze this Universe and ponder on its beauties and wisdom and knowledge that went into its minutest parts, that convinces us the Existence, Wisdom, Knowledge and Mercy of its Powerful Creator.

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e. The people who assume or try to prove that this Universe came by itself, thru chance or happy coincidences, are very simpleton people really. f. The problem is not in the existence of Creator, but the MODELS which different religions have for Him. Most models would have seemed logical and acceptable when human's knowledge about Universe was limited. But with the growth of our knowledge about science and analysis, most of these models seem wrong. g. So instead of correcting those models, our modern scientists and scholars and philosophers have started rejecting the concept of God and Creator itself. h. It is Islam and only Islam which gave a concept of God and Creator, so perfect and so scientific and so advanced that it is free from all "human concocted concepts" and is understandable and logical and reasonable in every age and at any level of development of human knowledge.\ j. The real problem is people under misconception that Islamic description of God, His Personality and His attributes are just like what we see in Judaism, Christianity and Hinduism etc. They think Quran also projects the same Model for God as we see in those other religions. k. And that in my view is the biggest stumbling block for people not to appreciate and understand the concept of God and His attributes as mentioned in Quran. l. Many people try to create this bungling deliberately and majority of people thru sheer ignorance of what Islam has to say on the concept of God and His attributes. m. I did start a discussion with our NQ on that very topic, but as it is her usual practice, she leaves any serious discussion in the middle and does not continue it, when she sees that she has to "accept" something as Truth. n. So it is not correct to say that God does not exist and no one has any proof of His existence. The Biggest proof of His existence is the existence of this Universe!! How can anything come into existence by itself or thru chance or thru happy coincidence? There is no way, none at all. I appreciate your concern and I wish that you continue this useful discussion till we understand each other's view point.

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[QUOTE who="HF"] Q-9. This is the sort of hard atheism that asks to be challenged with: if you are so sure, show us your proof. what is the evidence? As an agnostic atheist, who does not believe in a god, but also does not claim to know, I think there is a major difference between my views and those of hard atheists - defined as those who are nonbelievers who claim to know that there is no god, and/or to have proof. My agnosticism is as much a part of my view as my atheism is, and I respect it just as much. I am a hard atheist about only one view of god - as an all good and all powerful being. because of the problem of pain I do not think an all powerful being would be all good. I am even willing to challenge folks to take on my definition of God, and prove it does not exist. My definition is that god is everything that exists, and therefore god exists. Figure that one out. This is called pantheism. God is All that IS, thus GOD IS. I would be curious how folks would reply to that. [/QUOTE] Ans. I seek your pardon to butt into your discussions with Hard Liner Henry. A. Gods Existence: Soft Line versus Hardline Approach: 01. Thank you for your soft atheistic approach towards God. This is much batter that the Hard atheistic approach in which these people Claim to know that God does not exist without giving any proofs whatsoever. 02. Now coming to your Soft approach about God not existing, because you cannot prove one way or the other. . Do you not think that believe in God would be a more logical and reasonable approach than disbelief in His existence? 03. After all we see a lot of things before us, which were created much before us and no one took our advise or opinion about them. 04. Existence of Things is a much strong evidence of existence of its maker than absence of its maker, so logically those who claim existence of God are in superior position than who negate His presence. B. God and Science: 05. What science has done is to find How these millions of objects co-exist in this Universe. They have not found solutions for all questions but they are trying their level best.

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06. But has any one bothered to ask the question Why these things came into existence? Is there no purpose behind their creation? Obviously no one makes or devotes billions of years of His time to create and make something which is mere idle sport and has no purpose. C. Should God be only Good: 07. What I feel is that you have heart in proper place, but are confused seeing so many religions saying so many contradictory things about God and His attributes. 08. That is why you have taken a middle path. You say God is all good and anyone inflicting pain cannot be God. 09. If you have had any experience with managing affairs of any large size company or any nation, or be responsible to maintain law and order.. you would immediately recognize that both Rewards and Punishments are needed to run these things properly. 10. You just being good natured and doing and wishing good to every one, would not get proper results unless you also inflict judgment who knowingly ignore your instructions which are only for their own good. 11. This aspect of God is missing from your logic and you think as if God derives any benefits or enjoys punishing His own creations. A Merciful God also has to be a Just God rewarding His Obedient from Disobedient.

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[QUOTE who="F Singh"] Q-10 Human beings weren't engendered from dust at all as islam claims. I don't think so dust has amino-acids and the basic compounds of DNA. You said it would have been gibberish to people of 7th century if Quran had used modern scientific revelation. On the hand, now its sounds unscientific in some aspect. This is in contradiction to muslims' claim that islam is religion for all time. If Quran failed to mention any modern scientific evidences, then there is no way for us to question. But rather it has scientific errors which it advocates strongly. Just for example, if Quran hadn't mentioned anything about creation of human beings, we rationalists wouldn't have questioned . Because in that case, Quran wouldn't have spoken anything true or false. But, that is not the case here. Here it promotes some irrational idea of human creation. Theory of evolution has flaws. But not completely a false theory. Creationalism seems to be far away from truth. You said that in future there maybe more scientific truths would come out and might falsify the current theories. Well, that is possible but not probable. Who knows what is the future. Maybe in future, there would be more scientific evidences against Quran. So, I think what you meant is anything could happen in favour islam in future. It may go in opposite way as well. 2. Sorry, space must have been created before earth at least with a time difference of one-trillionth second. It just a simple logic. By the way, Quran doesn't say they were created simultaneously. It rather says there was a day difference(Some say 1 day of Allah=1000 years) [/QUOTE] Ans.

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It seems you are going around in circles, using the same argument again and again and confusing the whole discussion. Let us break down our discussion into main points. A. Creation of Humans from Dust: There is "Nothing Non Scientific to say that Humans were Created from the Dust"!! From where the Humans get their body parts? From where all these DNA and Amino Acid and what not get formed? Is there any item imported from "outside earth" to create and form a human? So it is "very correct scientifically" to say that Humans are created from the dust. What ever "metallic content" they have comes from the Earth, Water content comes from the water available on earth. Sun provides the Energy. There is "Only one thing" which does not come from dust It is the Human Soul!! It joins the human body in their mother's womb and then leaves it when the humans die!! This is the basic Creation lesson for you, Mr. Science Personified!! B. Space and earth: I told you earlier also, that Quran does not use the word "space" is says "heavens" and heavens means any thing above earth. Do not try to insert you own theories and your own interpretations into Quran and its vocabulary. C. Theory of Evolution: You know there are two Theories of Evolution, one called Sensible Theory of Evolution and another called Blind Theory of Evolution? Blind Theory of evolution says that all human life and its infinite forms just came by themselves, without any plan, design, purpose or a Power full Wise, Merciful and Knowledgeable Creator at the back of it. There is no purpose of life and human life to be more sure, we come and we die and that is the end of it. This Blind theory of Evolution is most Non Scientific, Most illogical and most Unreasonable by every angle as nothing can create itself and nothing comes by chance or comes without purpose.

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Unfortunately most of our so called Pseudo Scientists and those "with little knowledge" are whole hearted supporters of these BTOE. The Sensible theory of Evolution says that it is for Creator to make any changes in His Creations. We should look for any evidence of Evolution and try to understand it to the best of our knowledge. But to use the evidence as a "Proof against Creator" is the most stupid things that one can think of. I think now we know each other, do we not? Q-11. Will Atheism defeat religion by 2038? This is topic of this thread and a very interesting too, because someone has stick out his or her neck and made a definite "prediction" or "prophesy". It is easier to understand such things by past examples, I would try to do so. I would like to pose a different question: What happened to so called Socialism and Communism? A. Could any one say in 1960 s and 1970 s that "Communism and Socialism would be dead by 1990 s?: I think not even the "Most committed Capitalist" could make such a remark. In 60 s and 70 s the Socialism and Communism was the "Hot word". It was spreading like wild fire and new nations (mostly poor nations of Asia and Africa and Eastern Europe) were consumed by it. Murmuring against it in Hungary was quenched in One Day, Soft revolt against it in Chezslovakia was crushed in One Day. Same thing happened in the case of Poland and Solidarity in 1970 s. In UNO, the "Capitalist countries" were in minority and were only surviving thru Veto" Power. In books and lectures and seminars and debates, there was no way in which any one could prove that Capitalism was a better system than Socialism or Communism. B. What led to the so quick demise of the Socialism and / or Capitalism? If you ask "capitalists" they would say that USSR was "duped" to spend too much on arms in the arm race with USA and became bankrupt.

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Other people would give other reasons. According to me, the Socialism and Capitalism both had a deadly flaw that they were against basic human nature!! And any thing against Basic human nature can only be enforced by outside force and not by the will and heart of people. The moment this pressure is removed, people would revolt against it. That is how every country where Socialism or communism was practiced went under dictatorship and police and military brutality. Both these philosophies therefore were destined for failure and it became clear "when they were at a pinnacle of their powers". But on ground it happened when Russia invaded Afghanistan in 1979!!. That was the "end" of their "Moral Superiority and Leadership" in the world. A world superpower invading a small and poor country with no justification and with no provocation? They lost the respect of the world and when Gorbachev removed the pressure that was propping up the regime, the whole structure collapsed to the ground. That gives us a postulate "Any system which is against Basic Human Nature" is bound to fail, its life is limited. D. Is Atheism not against Basic Human Nature? I am asking this question now, because in my view Atheism is against basic human nature. No one in his or her right mind would ever believe that this huge Universe and every thing in it just came out by itself, without any plan, design, purpose or Creator at the back of it. Different religions have different models for this Creator and this "confusion" has given a temporary platform for these Atheists to come out and dare to "predict" the date by which they will defeat the religion. E. Common link between Atheism, Socialism and Capitalism: Many people will say that they never thought that there is any link between Atheism and socialism and communism, but there is. Both these systems only concern themselves with the "Material and Physical needs of human body". They have nothing for the Soul or spiritual side of the human soul. That is why Communists countries spent too much money, efforts and times on sports and shows and plays to give "some spiritual up-liftment" And in Capitalism we get that spiritual content in the form of drinks and dance parties, Games, Films, Music concerts etc.

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None of these provide "Permanent diet" to soul and give temporarily relief. F. White Nations and Spiritual Leadership of the world:\ White people have come out with only Two Philosophies for the world, One was Socialism and Communism which failed after 70 odd years, and the current one is Atheism, which is also called Materialism. At present this is shining star on the world scene and people think that it will grow stronger and stronger till in engulfs all religions of the world. By reading is that, its life is also limited and the questions one should ask "Will Atheism live upto 2038"? Famous Urdu poet and Philosopher Sir ALLAMA IQBAL presented it beautifully: DABA RAKKHA HAI ISKO JAMAWAR KE TEZ DASTI NE BAHUT DHEERE SURON MEIN HAI ABHI EUROPE KA WA WAILA In English we can translate it "The wails of Europe are in very slow tones right now as they are being suppressed due to quick action of the surgeons" And at another place: TUMHARI TAHZEEB KHUD APNE KHANJAR SE KHUDKUSHI KAREGI SHHAKH-E NAZUK PE JO ASHIYAN BANEGA NAPAAEDAR HOGA In English "Your Civilization shall commit suicide with your own weapons, if you make nest on weak branches, it would never last" F. It is for East to provide religion and spiritual guidance and not for West: Human history of thousands of years testifies this. All Major world religion started in East and not west. Judaism started in the East. Christianity started in the East. Hinduism started in the East. Buddhism started in the East. Islam started in the East. So I am entitled to ask the question "Will Atheism survive by 2038"? Let people vote on it!!

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Chapter-2 On Christianity, Jesus, Trinity, And Others


[QUOTE who="Shiela"] Q-12. I went to a private catholic college and was "brought up as a catholic". Most of them are the biggest hypocrites around. They celebrate pagan holidays and think that the pope is God on earth. We were taught about heaven and hell and yet if you research hell it is just a hole in the ground. Heaven is not where believers will be going. If you read the bible nowhere does it say that we will be in heaven. It states that we will live on earth and be ruled by Jesus from Jerusalem. I don't know what your beliefs are but mine are that Jesus died for us and it is up to us as to whether or not we take up the option of eternal life by our actions. I respect others who do not believe this but what I do not accept is radical muslims trying to force others to accept their beliefs and way of life [/QUOTE] Ans. Sorry to but into your personal life. But this short passage tells many thing about you and the way your thought process go. You were raised as a Catholic and got info from scriptures.. then you rebelled against Catholics and Made your own little Church so to say. You are free to accept or reject any of the Churchs teachings without any proof, just because You do not like it. Your comments about heaven and hell are very childish to say the least and shows your own immaturity and lack of understanding. Why you believe that Jesus died for your sin, when you rejected so many of the teachings of Catholic Church? The very idea of some one dieing for sin of another is the most illogical and unreasonable thing that one hears. This and Jesus somehow being connected with God were the things that your mind should have rejected, if you used reasons and logic.

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But you accepted that and rejected the concept of heaven and hell, that shows your reverse logic! How would Jesus rule from Jerusalem with all humans that were born from Adam to End of Time is itself questionable, Will the earth support so many humans? Or most of them would be dispatched to hell for not believing in Jesus and that he dies for sins of humanity!! The Only positive thing is that you do not want to force any one to believe in it, so your Individual Church shall remain in the minority of one!! That is the problem with most Christians we meet on these threads. Every one has his Own set of beliefs. Any one can accept or reject any verse or any portion or any teaching of their Bible, without any proof, just saying I do not like it. So there are as many churches as there are Christians on the earth..which of these Churches is supported by Jesus, I do not know, do you know them? In the end I thank you for the kind words you have inserted about Extremist Muslims. It was strange that in you whole post, you had omitted mentioning Muslims, so it was a sort of incomplete.. you finished it of beautifully!! Now I should thank you for a Balanced post, should I? [QUOTE who="NQ"] Q-13. Please allow me to tell you something, MUQ. I read and believe the Bible. Granted, there are some things hard to understand, but with time, study, and prayer, it is possible to understand it. I do not know where to begin examining the "Three synoptic Gospels" you speak of, and then of course, I'd have to read them in English. Also, in order for me to know and believe those particular writings, I'd have to know something about their background and transmission or authenticity. So if you want to tell me about those, give me links that are explanatory in a coherent, cohesive way, I'd be willing to look at them. Or, you yourself can tell me about their authenticity, and background. [/QUOTE] Ans. I have no problem if you believe in Bible, Quran came to confirm Bible and not to reject it.

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But at the same time, every one knows that Bible is not in the exact condition when it was written down. It has suffered in content and in interpretation and in translation in so many centuries. So you need an external source of reference to verify which part of Bible is authentic and which is not. If you use Bible as a reference to correct itself, it would be illogical and not give any result. Fortunately we have Quran which is Pure Word of God and Preserved in its pristine condition since the day it was revealed. It can do the job for you as an external Reference. Regarding Bible and other scriptures, Quran has three positions: a. There are some things which it expressively confirms. b. There are some things which is expressively rejects and. c. There is some thing on which Quran is silent. So the best option would be to consider that part which Quran confirms as 100 % authentic. The one which Quran rejects as unreliable and to be changed. And for the part on which Quran is silent, to keep silent. That would save you all the trouble of going thru each and every verse of Synoptic Gospel or any other book. This is a field for experts who can read manuscripts in those ancient languages, and check about each verse, there are books on that subject and is called Higher Critical Study of Scriptures. What we have is only the conclusions from them and which are very reasonable seeing so many mistakes, errors and contradictions in the existing books. This is what I can say as of now, if you want examples of the three categories which I mentioned, I can give you examples from Quran and Bible. But it depends on your interest to pursue this discussion.

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[QUOTE who="Shiela"] Q14. 01. In reply to the bible being changed: The bible today is the same as the bible was in the 7th century. 02. The Quran declares the Bible to be a true revelation of God and demands faith in the Bible. Sura 2:40-42,126,136,285; 3:3,71,93; 4:47,136; 5:47-51, 69,71-72; 6:91; 10:37,94; 21:7; 29:45,46; 35:31; 46:11 03. While Muslims all over the world charge Christianity and Judaism with changing and corrupting the Bible, such charges are not explicitly made even once in the Quran or the Hadith, their own authoritative scriptures. 04. claim that the bible has been corrupted is based on the fact that if you believe what the bible says then your scriptures must be wrong (which they are) and islam falls down in a heap. Mohammad believed in it in his day. The bible that was written before him and after his is the same. There are over 6000 manuscripts to support this. [/QUOTE] Ans. So here are you with your new pearls of Wisdom, let us analyze more salient of them: A. Bible being same as it was in 7th century: How idiotic is your statement you can yourself see. When we see before our own eyes different versions of Bible, how can we say that Bible today is same as it was in 7th Century? 1. We have RC Bible with 73 Books and Protestant Bible with 66 Books, was that the same in 7th century? 2. We have KJV and then we have RSV, many verses from KJV are removed from RSV, was that the same situation in 7th century? 3. Then we have NIV, NKJV, Jehovahs Witness version and innumerable versions of Bible This is what we see before out own eyes, how can we simply believe your statement that Bible is same as it was in 7th century?

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And what about changes that happened before 7th Century? They automatically become word of God? B Quran Confirming Bible: 04. It is strange that you take recourse to Quran to prove that Bible is Authentic!! According to you Quran is not a Book of God, so how come you are quoting from Quran. 05. Quran never speaks about Bible as a whole (I mean collection of 66 or 73 books) it speaks about Torah and INJEEL and ZABUR and revelations sent to prophet of God. 06. Quran also accuses Jews and Christians of changing words from their locations and writing books with their own hands and claiming that they came from God. 07. Quran only confirms that revelation which was given to Moses and Jesus and David and other prophets were from God, that is all. C. It is ONLY Muslims that claim Bible is corrupted: 08. You try to give false impression that it is ONLY Muslims who made this claim that Bible is corrupted. 09. The reality is that this started between jews and Christians themselves. Jews accuse Christians of corrupting the Bible and Christians accuse the Jews. 10. Otherwise how is it possible that Christians see Only Jesus mentioned in OT books and Jews do not see him mentioned not even once. 11. Then all these different sects and denominations of Christians they all accuse each other of corrupting their Bibles, they each have and had their own Bibles. 12. It were Christian Scholars who took up the work of comparing different manuscripts and checking how much they differ from each other. They came to conclusion that No two copies of most ancient Bibles are exact copies of each other!! D. It was not possible to corrupt the Scriptures: 13. When we see with our own eyes, so many different versions of Bible and each differing from each other and we see that in our Most modern and advance age the work of correcting mistakes in Bible is still going on, how can we accept your statement? 14. It was always very easy to change verses of Bible as it is still possible to change them and do not include any verse in your version of Bible!! E. Muslims only reject Bible because it contradicts Quran:

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15. You are correct, when we have two contradictory statements, only one can be correct and the other mist be false (or both could be false). If we find contradictory statements in Quran and Bible, we must check about the authenticity of two books. 16. If we find that Bible has been modified and can be changed many times, and there is no way to trace it to their supposed authors, how can it stand before Quran, who has never been changed and still traceable to its author? F. Quoting ambiguous statements from some Muslim Writers of the past: 17. This is also a very weak statement, when some thing is available before our own eyes, how come we can take refuge with some one elses statement. 17. The correct thing before Jews and Christians is to publish the original manuscript of their Bible in its original language. And then put English translation side by side (As Muslims do for Quran). 18. So that every one should read their scriptures in the language they were written and then read translation. 19. Once that is done, we will see how authentic are claims that Bible remain unchanged for 4000 years (OT books) and 2000 years (NT Books)!!

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[QUOTE who="HughBe"]<quoted text> Q15. MUQ greetings, how does one become a Christian?[/QUOTE] Ans. If some one wants to become a Christian, he oe she must try to follow in the footsteps of jesus. He or she should take the worlds of Jesus as supreme and reject any thing and every thing that goes against these words. To start with, he or she should remove all writings of so called St. Paul from his bible and only concentrate on the words which jesus spoke in the First Three Gospels. The fourth Gospel is written in allegorical language and puts his own ideas in the mouth of Jesus. So anything in fourth Gospel which goes against the words of Jesus in the first three Gospels should also be rejected. Then one must follow the laws of Torah as Jesus was following... This is the HARD way to become a Christian... There is an EASIER way to become a TRUE Christian, believe in Last Prophet and you will become a True Christian as well as a Muslim and gain favor of Your Lord in this world and in the hereafter. Because even if you become a True Christian, Jesus advised you to believe in the Comforter who shall come after him and guide you into all truth. And that comforter is no other than our Prophet!! Thank you for asking a very good question!!

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[QUOTE who="Verty"] Q16. Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. [/QUOTE] Ans.

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It is really a hilarious and thought provoking post. Pots calling kettle black sums it up nicely. [QUOTE who="Jack Braddock"] Q17. MUQ, would you attempt to answer this question ? Why has the Christian god blessed the west with there living conditions and Allah cursed the muslims with the conditions they live in ? Even the poorest westerner lives in better conditions than most muslims do in there lands........Why ?? What worries me is if the west does embrace islam and turn its back on its Christian beginnings maybe our conditions and life style would become the same as the middle east ? [/QUOTE] Ans. I think you have a very wrong concept of judging the truth of any religion just by looking at the current situation and Living Standards of followers of that religion. If you take that as a test for truth of any religion, then please tell me: A. About Judaism: a. Judaism must be True religion When Moses and David were leading the Jews and they had sway over Palestine. b. The same Judaism then proved a false religion when Nebuchadnezzar defeated Jews and destroyed Jerusalem and took them into captivity for 70 years. c. The Judaism again become true religion when Jews returned back to Palestine and rebuilt their temple. d. Judaism again became the false religion, when Roman general Titus destroyed Jerusalem and dispersed Jews all over Europe. e. And Judaism was false religion in all those 2000 years when Jews were under control of Christians and were wandering from country to county. f. And Judaism was a false religion when Hitler was murdering those six million Jews.

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g. And after 1948, establishment of Israel, Judaism again become true religion? h. And if and when Israel is removed, Judaism will again become a false religion? Is that what you are saying? B. Christianity: a. Christianity must be the false religion for the first 300 years because all important figure of their religion, including Jesus, Peter, Paul and most of the Apostles were killed by Roman or Jews. b. The living condition of Christians and their material wealth was very less as compared to Romans and Persians and Indians and Chinese. So these religions were true and Christianity was false for first 300 years of its history. c. Then Christianity became a True religion when Constantine accepted Christianity and their standard of living was very high. d. Then Christianity again became false religion when Christians were defeated by Muslims in Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt and all of their Asian and African possessions and when Muslims controlled Spain. e. And Christianity was false religion during all those dark centuries when standard of living of Christians was very low as compared to Muslims. f. And Christianity became a True Religion after 17th Century when renaissance started in Europe and their condition of living improved. g. And if Christian nations once again became poor, then once again Christianity would become a false religion? Is that what you are trying to say? C. Islam: a. Islam was the true religion when Muslims were ruling almost all parts of civilized word and they had highest standard of living. b. And that state continued for more than 700-800 years. c. Suddenly after 800 years Islam became a false religion, when Muslim countries were defeated by Christians? d. And if by any way standard of living of Muslims become high, Islam will once again become True religion? Is that what you are goring to say?

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I am unable to understand your logic, same religion becomes true, then false and the once gain becomes truths. [QUOTE who="smhl"] Q18. Jesus might have said some wise remarks as reported in the synoptic. As for the fourth gospel, not a single word in it were ever spoken by him. [/QUOTE] I would not go to the "extreme" by saying that "Not a single word in that Gospel was spoken by Jesus" (unless of course you mean that Jesus spoke Aramaic and the Gospel was written in Greek, then this charge shall stick to all four Gospels equally)... But this Gospel was written in allegorical language and the writers puts "his own words" into the mouth of Jesus. But nevertheless it does record some sayings of Jesus, we should check it with other three Gospels and decide which words were "probably spoken" by Jesus. We should not reject 100 % of this Gospel and should not accept 100 % of it either, the same as we do for other three Gospels as well!! [QUOTE who="ES"] Q19. The Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text and Gnostic texts are heretical from a true Biblical perspective. The Gnostics of the first century were spiritualists, their teachings were heretical and occult on account of the fact that Gnosticism does not teach that there is a personal God, they like many Hindus and Buddhists believe that god is impersonal or a state of bliss consciousness like Nirvana as taught in Buddhism and none of these doctrines are taught in the Bible on account of the fact that the visions of God in the Old Testament reveal a very personal being. See Ezekiel 1: specifically Ezekiel 1:26,27,28. Since I am assuming that you are a Muslim why would you use a book that contradicts the personal view of God, considering that Muslims believe that their god is personal? [/QUOTE] Ans.

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What I am posting is a part of a book that deals with the History of Truth, written by an Egyptian Doctor. Authenticity and reliability of Bible is one of the topics under which the author looks at so many Gospels that were prevalent in the earliest Christian centuries. Now you say that some of these Gospels by Agnostics, you name them Agnostics but they did not call themselves Agnostics. What is strange that all those people thrived in the earliest centuries of Christianity and not in the later centuries. Usually any religious movement is strongest in its initial stages. It is strange that many of the earliest Christian sects were declared as heretics and hypocrites and their books and writings were burned down the so call custodians of the Authorized Church. As a Muslim, we want to know the truth about Jesus and about the Gospel he preached. [QUOTE who="Ezdit"] Q.20 The Book of James was written by Jesus younger brother. James grew up with Jesus in Nazareth, took over leadership of his followers after Jesus Ascension, and chose to be murdered by the Pharisees rather than renounce his belief in Jesus. Paul believed Jesus appeared to him, spoke to him, chose him, and taught him as a disciple. And he, like eleven of the other disciples and James, was willing to die rather than renounce his belief in Jesus. What the Roman Church says is or isnt canon has lost improtance since the printing press was invented and the Reformation movement began. What problem do you see with this? Quality or quantity? [/QUOTE] Ans. To: Kenhurt and Ezdit and others My comments about Chosen Disciples of Jesus and their contribution has caused much interest on this thread, I would like to clarify my position so that there is no confusion.

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A. Status of Chosen Disciples of Jesus in Islam: 1. Muslims of the world have nothing against the chosen disciples of Jesus Christ. There is not a single verse in Quran that says anything against them. 2. Muslims believe that they faithfully followed the teachings of Jesus Christ and tried to propagate them into the world. 3. We also believe that in that propagation, they had to face stiff resistance from Jews and the Roman Empire and many were martyred and many were forced to exile. 4. Our belief is that till the end of their lives, they followed on the foot steps of jesus and they have a Great Reward from their Lord in the hereafter. B. Contribution of Chosen Disciples in the NT: 5. But when we read the NT, we found that very little of their activities is mentioned in these books. 6. Disciples names and their actions are mentioned only the four Gospels and in the books of Acts (first 15 Chapters only). 7. Chapter 15 of the book of Acts is about the Jerusalem Council, in which a compromise formula was agreed between Chosen Disciples and Paul as to how to deal with Non Jewish converts to Christianity. 8. After the Council of Jerusalem, there is hardly any mention of the activities of any of the chosen disciples of jesus. Peter, James, John, Barnabas, Andrew, Thaddeus, Thomas. None are to be found any where, it is Paul, Paul and Paul all the way. 9. What we see on Chosen Disciples contribution are a few epistles here and there. None of these epistles lay down any principle of any teaching which is of much importance. So we can say that their contribution in the evolution of Christianity was minimal. After saying that let us discuss more about the contribution of some of these Apostles: C. Peter the Chief Disciple: 10. Christians give a lot of lip service to Peter, the Rock on which Jesus wanted to build his church. But in reality we have very little knowledge about Peter what he did after jesus left the earth. 11. He is mentioned very frequently in the first 15 chapters of Books of Act, i.e. upto Jerusalem Council and then night falls and we do not know what happened to him. 12. His Epistles which are included in NT were not written by him, but by some one elses and do not lay down any serious guidelines for Christians. They do not establish any theology so to say.

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13. It is reported that he was martyred in Rome for preaching Christianity, but what Christianity he was preaching? Jesus or Pauls ? That is a question and there is no answer about this question. 14. Christians would say that he became a disciple of Paul? But it is hardly acceptable. D. James the Brother of Jesus: 15. In the same way James is called as the brother of Jesus and he was Most Jewish of all the Chosen Disciples of jesus. 16. He was the leader of Jewish Christians and head of their Church in Jerusalem. His name appears in the Books of Act, but he also vanishes after the famed Council of Jerusalem. 17. He would also been martyred preaching Christianity, but which version? Jesus or paul ? That is again a question about which there is no answer. E. Barnabas, the replacement for Judas Iscariot: 18. Then we hear a lot about Barnabas, in the opening chapter of the books of act. 19. It was he who introduced Paul to the Jesus chosen disciples and he and Paul did a lot of preaching together. 20. It is strange that he too had a disagreement with Paul, and that too in the chapter fifteen of books of Act and then nothing is heard about him. F. Other Chosen Disciples of Jesus: 21. Very little is known about their activities and they did not write any Epistle which is included in the Christian Bible. 22. It is reported that most of them died as a martyr and I do not have any objection that it would have been the case. 23. Or that they migrated to other parts of the world, Thomas for example is said to have travelled to India and formed a church there. 24. There is no record that any of them became companions of paul and accepted his version of Christianity. G. Paul the Chief Evangelizer of Christianity: 25. That leaves Paul who became the Chief spokes person of jesus and Christianity. 26. It is his own claim that he saw Risen Christ in a vision and became his follower.

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27. since he had never met Jesus in his life time, and learned anything from him, the most natural course was for him to go and learn about jesus teachings from the Chosen Disciples. 28. But he did not do anything of the kind and from the first day of his conversion, he started preaching his own Gospel, which he was told according to him by Jesus in visions. 29. Such a claim is self serving, because no one can prove that what he claimed was true or not? 30. Then when he see this writings, we find that he never quotes from jesus any thing, what a strange apostle of jesus was he, who had no time to quote from the own Lord and Master!! 31. he was the one who started this idea of Jesus being Divine, that he died for the sin of humanity that after death of jesus, the law is abolishedetc. 32. These are teachings which became the basis of later day Christianity and believed to be teachings of Jesus on the authority of Paul who claimed that he saw Risen Christ in a vision. 33. Then Paul could not get a single supporter from those whom Jesus had chosen and Paul is the writer of 14 books in the NT, most by any other writer. 34. It is reported that he died as a martyr and did not change his religion..i want to ask is that a test of truth and falsehood of his beliefs? Many people have died for their faith, many of so called heretics were burned on the stake and they did not change their stand. It only speaks about his firmness of belief, but no barometer that his beliefs were true. 35. The best title for him is self appointed thirteenth Apostle of Jesus. And is that can be the basis of any one believing that he was indeed a True Disciple of Jesus. It is their own choice. Available evidences are all against it. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="NQ"] Q.21 Let me ask you one question about this, MUQ: Do you agree that ALL the words in the gospel accounts were either hearsay and written not by Jesus, but by someone else? [/QUOTE] Ans. If you want to listen to "spoken words" of Jesus in Gospels, Just listen to "small bits and pieces" where Jesus' own words are reproduced in Original Aramaic in the Three Synoptic Gospels. These are most likely the words uttered by Jesus from his own lips!! And that does not include the last words that came from the one who was on the cross "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABAQTANI" These were uttered by the person who was supposed to have died on the cross and it was not Jesus. Jesus was already taken up into heavens. Rest of the sermons we hear in the Synoptic Gospels are the "Translations of words of Jesus into Greek". Most of them are true, but a Translation is not like the original words spoken by Jesus. Then there have been editing of these words by some unknown hands. But still most words said to be uttered by Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels can be taken as words of Jesus translated. Most of the words of Jesus in the fourth Gospel however are not his own, but of the author who has put his words into mouth of Jesus. This is what I think and Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Frijoles"] Q.22 "What had Jesus to say about the people who practiced Sodomy?" All of this started from the basic question - what WAS the sin of Sodom. No one has presented a good argument that the sin of Sodom was even what we know refer to as "sodomy" - from the Tankh /OT or from the NT. Opinions are a dime a dozen, but no one has cited scripture yet. Hughbe came close with his "know" but instead of developing it further he went off on a tangent. [/QUOTE] Ans. The question you asked is very genuine and I doubt any one in Christianity would be able to answer what was the Real Crime of people of Sodom or Gomorrah. The so called Tanakh / OT / NT and Jewish Scriptures do not have specific charges to be filed on the crimes committed by these people and why they were made such an example before all nations. Now the question is, who can solve this mystery and how can we know the truth. People like you, would not like it, but the truth is, you will have to refer to Quran to find answer to this question!! And it is not strange that Quran makes this claim Verily this Quran does explain to the Children of Israel most of the matters in which they disagree (27:76)!! So it is once again Quran which solves this problem!! A. Original Crime of people of Sodom and Gomorrah: Listen to these verses from Quran: And Lot, said to his people Do you commit Lewdness such as no people (ever) committed before you (hence the Title Original Crime from my side- MUQ) For you practice your lusts on men in preference to women: you are indeed a people transgressing beyond bonds (7: 80-81) This and at every place where Quran mentions people of Lot, their sexual deviation is always mentioned to distinguish them from other nations and people. So it can be concluded that it were people of Sodom and Gomorrah who were inventor of this type of sexual perversion, and it was from them that this evil started

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and it was because of that that Sodomy got its name and it was because of that any one who practice such acts.should be warned. I hope that this satisfies your Scripture part of the answer. PS: But according to you, Quran is no scripture and it got its info from OT or NT books, so how come our prophet got that specific bit of info which was not present in these books? Another original brain wave? [QUOTE who="Eric"] Q23. 2. The punishment of death was not for the Onanism. 3. Moreover, it was not man that killed Onan in response to a law. Remember this was before Moses. It was G-d personally that killed Onan. If you have a problem, you need to reflect upon it with G-d. [/QUOTE] Ans. 1. What is Onanism? This is a new phrase for me? Your mind is so fertile, you create a sect and a philosophy in no time, and what is amazing, these weird names get so many followers. 2. So before Moses it was all "free for all" in this world, there were no laws no regulations and no guidance. Every one was "free" to do what ever he or she liked, is that what you are trying to tell me? I have no issue with God about Onan, in most probability it is a made up story. God does not intervene in such small matters.

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[QUOTE who="Ezdzit"] Q24. What I said was: "I think the virgin birth was a lie fabricated by the Roman Church to support the bigger lie that Jesus was a demigod fathered by God." The proof that the virgin birth story is a lie is that according to the writings of Eusebius, the Roman bishop, circa 315 AD, Jesus Apostles considered him a plain and common man, who was justified only because of his superior virtue, and who was the fruit of the intercourse of a man with Mary. The Roman Church ordered copies of the Gospels written by the Apostles to be burned as heretical and wrote the Roman Church's version of the Gospels. [/QUOTE] Ans. When Quran confirms that Jesus was created without any human father from virgin Mary, then it seals the issue for us Muslims. Why should be continue to argue and search thru the defective and confusing and contradicting Church records? When the act itself is not beyond the Powers of God and He confirms it in His Book, then we should but accept it. And getting born without any human father, would not turn Jesus, into God, Son of God, or Demigod . As creation of Adam and Eve before him did not grant any such status to them. That is why, no Muslim raises such questions as Christians are raising that if he had no earthly father, then his father must be God etc. Allah Knows Best

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[QUOTE who="HughBe"]<quoted text> Q25. Please answer my question. Were Jesus' disciples His SLAVES?[/QUOTE] They were not his slaves in legal sense, but more than slaves in spiritual sense!! They considered him as their Lord and their Master, it was indeed a great honor to be able to see a prophet of God with your eyes and listen to his discourses from your own ears and listen to his prayers and blessings which he does for you with your eyes and ears... Which Slave could find a Master like that? And it was thru these direct disciples that teachings of prophet are conveyed to world after he has gone and his memory is kept alive. But unfortunately, many people do not give due regard to the direct disciples of prophets of God and ridicule them and consider them as simpletons and people with little understanding etc. It is a very dangerous tract indeed, very dangerous path to tread on.

[QUOTE who=" "] Q26. Jesus Christ Never Existed Cases for Christ's existence have been made by some but never hold up to a simple fact check as shown below. Historically speaking the absolute lack of evidence for a figure of the said time period means one of two things; the figure was very insignificant or did not exist. As it stands there is absolutely no historical evidence for the figure Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph, thus there is no reason to suggest he ever existed. In the decades around 1CE it was quite common for regular humans to have followers and be worshiped as the savior predicted by scriptures. It would be no big deal if there was evidence to suggest that Jesus was an actual person with a following like many of the other alleged saviors and miracle workers. However, as described below, there are several reasons to suggest that Jesus was not an actual historic figure which would explain why there is no record of him or his supposed following. Paul Created Jesus It is clear from a comparison of history and Paul's writings that Jesus was not a historical figure but rather a figure of Paul's imagination. History shows us that prior to Paul there is no mentioning or awareness of Jesus and that all later stories of Jesus are derived from areas where Paul made his stories known. Paul in his writings tells us that his knowledge of Jesus is based on his interpretation of scripture and not from

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another person. He also tells us that no one, aside from those who gained their knowledge from scripture, knew of the events related to Jesus until he personally shared the story with the public. "Historical Jesus" Although Jesus was not originally based on a real person some later aspects were. Certain stories in the Gospels suggest that some aspects of Jesus' life were loosely inspired by legends of an actual person or persons. Historians have dubbed this person(s) "Historical Jesus" because an actual name is not known. Outside of scripture there is nothing to suggest that this person(s) existed but certain scriptural writings about Jesus, such as the resurrection story, sound more like they were based on a real life regular human being than a demi-god figure. Disagreements In the Gospels Even though the gospels were not written independently of each other they still contain various discrepancy. Many contradictions are related to simple details such as the color Jesus' robe and who or what as at his tomb. Other contradictions are more dramatic such as Luke and Matthew placing the story of Jesus' birth during two separate historical events that are 10 years apart. It is these sort of minor and dramatic discrepancies that we would not see in historical documentations of a real person and exactly what we would expect to see if the stories are just retellings of mythology and legends. Christian Apologists Apologists exist because Jesus didn't. If there actually were historical evidence for Jesus Christ then Christians would look to historians to support their claims. There would be no need for the existence of Christian apologists like Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel who make up claims despite historical evidence to give people what they want to hear, not what is true. Such apologists make a great deal of money selling such books while taking advantage of their followers. To the left are rebuttals to a few dishonest claims that apologists make a living off of. Lucian of Samosata The reference to Jesus in "The Passing of Peregrinus" is describing what Christians believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. The Passing of Peregrinus is also a satire, a work of fiction. Lucian was a satirist, not a historian Lucian was not born until 125 CE Publius Cornelius Tacitus The reference to Jesus in "Annals XV.44" is describing what Christians believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. Tacitus goes on to call this belief about Christus a "pernicious superstition." Tacitus was not born until 56 CE Annals XV.44 was not written until 115 CE

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Suetonius Chapter 25 of a biography titled "The Life of Claudius" has one line that mentions "Chrestus" which is NOT a reference to Jesus Christ. This passage is also set during 50 CE, twenty years after Jesus' supposed death. Suetonius was not born until 41 CE "The Life of Claudius" was not written until 115 CE Pliny the Younger The reference to Jesus in Pliny the Younger's writings corresponding with the emperor Trajan is describing what Christians in Asia Minor believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. Pliny the Younger was not born until 61 CE Flavius Josephus The Antiquities of the Jews is NOT based on historical events. Right in the preface Josephus tells us that the history he is writing about is based on Hebrew scriptures and religious books. Hence why Jesephus' Antiquities not only mentions Jesus but also describes God's creation of the earth, Adam & Eve, Noah & the flood, the Tower of Babel, the 10 Plagues, and the parting of the sea. "Now I have undertaken the present work, as thinking it will appear to all the Greeks worthy of their study; for it will contain all our antiquities, and the constitution of our government, as interpreted out of the Hebrew Scriptures." "I shall now betake myself to the history before me, after I have first mentioned what Moses says of the creation of the world, which I find described in the sacred books after the manner following." Antiquities of the Jews -- Preface Josephus was not even born until 37 CE Antiquities of the Jews was not written until 94 CE Antiquities of the Jews is based on religious texts, not history. Josephus was an orthodox Jew and never believed in a savior named Jesus Christ He Was Influential Just because a figure is influential does not suggest they existed, all mythological gods were very influential. Like some Christians many followers of other gods were willing to die for what they thought was true. The terrorists of 9-11 died for the influential lie about 72 virgins in paradise. We can't know if anyone existed that long ago The absolute lack of historical evidence for Jesus Christ is obviously a major problem for anyone looking for a reason to think he actually existed. To ignore this problem apologists claim that we cannot expect to have any evidence for a person who lived that long ago. That claim is far from true. The 1st century was a well documented time and we have a great deal of historical evidence for figures who actually existed. Take Julius Caesar for example. We have writings by him, and writings about him by both friends and enemies written during his life time. We have contemporary

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sculptures and other artwork depicting his image and various artifacts confirming his life and death. We have a known year of birth and a known day of death. We have a rather complete history of Caesar yet no such evidence is found in relation to Jesus Christ, who is said to have lived decades later. We don't even have a known last name for Jesus. Shroud of Turin The Shroud of Turin is a forgery. After independent analysis by the University of Arizona, Oxford, and Swiss Federal Institute of Technology all results date the shroud to be from between 1260 and 1390 CE. Besides, even if it was from the wrappings of a dead body during the 1st century this would still not be evidence that Jesus Christ existed. It would only be evidence that a person died during the 1st century. Letters to Abgarus The "Letters of Abgarus and Jesus" claimed by some apologists to be written by Jesus to the Abgar V are taken as forgeries, not authentic, by historians. The known copies of these letters were written long after the time Jesus supposedly lived. Also the letter forged as Jesus mirrors passages from the Diatessaron (c. 150-160 CE) and not the earlier versions of the gospels. The Talmud Some apologists claim that the Talmud (c. 200-500 CE) is evidence that even nonChristians claimed Jesus existed. Despite claims by Josh McDowell there is NO specific reference to Jesus anywhere in the Talmud and there is no denying that its authors didn't believe in Jesus' messiahship or divinity. The Gospels The gospels are not eyewitness accounts and were written 36-65 years after Jesus' supposed death. None of the writers claim to be eyewitnesses, Matthew is written completely in third person (e.g. Matthew 9:9), and the author of John claims he is not the disciple John (John 21:24). The followers of Jesus were Aramaic speaking peasants from Galilee, lower class men that are not educated and could not have written the gospels in Greek. All the gospels were written anonymously and the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were simply applied to the unnamed writings by later readers and named after characters in the stories. Acts 4:13 even says Peter and John were uneducated and ignorant men. Jesus Family Tomb Some claim a tomb found in Talpiot is the tomb of Jesus and his family because two of the ten ossuaries contain the names "Jesua, son of Joseph" and "Mariamene e Mara." Mary, Joseph, and Jesua were very common names in 1st century Israel so there is nothing significant about the inscriptions. Even most apologists agree that there is no reason to think this tomb is related to Jesus Christ particularly since it was the tomb of a wealthy family that was not from Nazareth. Oral Tradition Some apologists claim that there is no contemporary evidence for Jesus because during that time people only shared stories verbally. It is true, there was an oral tradition among story tellers and the sharing of stories. Historians on the other hand

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documented events as they occurred. If Jesus was a historical figure and not just a character in a story there would be contemporary writings about him. [/QUOTE] Ans.

[QUOTE who="Shiela"] Q27. 01. What Jesus taught was an offshoot of Judaism. He called the Pharisees out on their hypocrisies. he believed in one God not three and he practiced as a Jew Most Christians believe in the trinity Jesus never believed in this he believed in one God The Jews didn't believe that Jesus was God the Son. In fact he was a son of God there is a difference 02. The Jews didn't think he was illegitimate they just couldnt believe he was the son of God. The Jews will not come to believe that Jesus is the son of God until he returns to earth to rule from Jerusalem 03. Islam is not the true religion and that is a fact. Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek Islam teaches death to the infidel etc etc Jesus warned us of false religions that would come after him and Islam is one of them [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Off- Shoot of Judaism: So either Christians are following a different religion than what Jesus taught, or Jews are not following what Jesus taught them. What was that "off-shoot" of Judaism which Jesus was teaching, only you seem to know. We do not want to get involve into this internal and friendly debate between Jews and Christians.

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What we know is that bulk of Jews still reject jesus and his message, whether he was Son of God or not, whether he taught Trinity or not is again to be debated between Jews and Christians. 02. Legitimacy of Jesus: If Jews did not believe Jesus was illegitimate then do they believe that he was born without a Human father? I think you are trying your level best to ride on two boats at the same time, you want to Bridge the Gap between Jews and Christians, I wish you luck and hope that you be successful. Seeing the condition of Judaism and Christianity in the world and the way, they are used only as a label, it is high time that they Unite and face their Common enemy i.e. Islam. I would like me to read what the punishment for Apostasy according to Jews is?. Do you like me to quote the verses from the OT or you will find it? 03. False Prophets and True Prophets of God: Jesus warned you of false prophets as well gave you to find a True prophet of God. Jesus NEVER said that I am last prophet and any one that comes after me shall be a False Prophet. Interestingly this was said by the Last and Final prophet of God, who said categorically I am the Last and Final prophet, no prophet of God shall come after me, any one who claims prophethood after me is a liar. These are the clear and unambiguous wording of someone who is sure of what he is saying. Not the sort of ambiguous way in which jesus spoke of True prophets and False prophets of God.

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[QUOTE who="Matthew E"] Q28. Religion is the ritual observance of beliefsJesus didn't teach hatred for anything other than the evil, not the person, in fact he taught "And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins." There are religions that teach peace and there are religions of war. Then there are teachings that create peace and teachings that create war. The teaching of Christ is humble and gentle and forgiving. [/QUOTE] Ans. Everyone is entitled to his or her own believe so I do not accuse you of your subjective comparison of personalities of jesus and Prophet Mohammad. It is very easy for one to preach forgiveness and moral values, it costs nothing, the problem comes when you want to create a society based on the morals you preach. In case of Jesus he only had to preach, but did not have either time or resources to build up a society based on these teachings. It can be proven (by any standards) that moral teachings of our prophet are in no way inferior to those made by Jesus, but our prophet was not a mere preacher, he had to build up a society based on the morals he preached. And when you try to build up a society, you have to ruffle a few feathers and get a lot of people to criticize you. If you be just a "plain" preacher , you only get good will and sympathy. That is in my view your basic mistake in carrying out the comparison between these two Great messengers of God. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Truth"] Q29. Though I am not a Christian, I respect Jesus for his love for humanity. He did not hate anyone. Jesus' mission was not a failure. What Jesus achieved was very rare. Jesus did not die an ordinary death. He sacrificed his life for humanity. It would be wrong to say that Jesus was inferior to Muhammad. [/QUOTE] Ans. Brother you judge me wrong. As a Muslim I also have highest respect for Jesus, He was one of the Most Distinguished of all prophets sent on this earth. What I write on these posts is for the Christians, who claim somethings he never did or he never claimed. So these are only for the sake of argument and not real charge against him or his personality. No Muslim can say anything bad about Jesus, because he will no longer be a Muslim then. We go one step ahead of you and say that Jesus never died on cross and he was never killed, God saved him from the hands of his enemies and took him up bodily into heavens from where he shall descend towards the end of time. All these stories that he died for sins of human kind and gave up his lifeetc. were concocted by his Extremists Followers later on and St. Paul was the most vocal in forwarding this thing and which Later Day Christians accepted as a Fact.!!

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[QUOTE who="N4"] Q30. You do understand "MUQ" St. Paul (was named Saul) and He persecuted Christians a nascent faith at this time ..a faith the Jesus gave his children ...St. Paul merely learned the error of his ways (with Gods help)and adopted Christianity as his own.. 2) Saint Paul ..did not start anything new Christianity was already a growing religion .. 2a) The reason he has more letters in the New Testament ..He was the better educated of Jesus disciples ..most were fishermen .. 2. .."MUQ" is it a sin if a Muslims decides ..that, he has no stomach for killing a farm animal...and, decides to abstain from the blood ritual of Eid...??? 2)also..I applaud this practice ...children should see where we get our meat... [/QUOTE] Ans. 1. St. Paul and his Conversion: a. I have nothing against past life of St. Paul. There are many cases where people who led ungodly life before saw the light and transformed their lives. b. In such cases the New Converts first try to gain true religious knowledge by either going to the prophets (if they are alive) or to the best teachers of new faith available at those times. c. Since Jesus was already gone from the world when Paul saw the light so the most natural way for him was to go to the Chosen Disciples of Jesus Christ, all of whom were living and doing the propagation work and learn about the teachings of Jesus Christ. d. But he did nothing of the sort, from the moment he got converted; he started preaching his own Gospel!! He appointed himself as Jesus Apostle to the Gentiles and claimed equality nay superiority over those Chosen Disciples. e. That is why we see in his letters very few quotations from Jesus own wordings. He was supposed to be an Apostle of jesus , and his letters have quotations from everyone else, except jesus. Is it logical or credible? 2. St. Paul and his Innovations in Christianity:

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a. You say, he did not start anything new? In fact he originated most of the dogmas on which later day Christianity was based. b. It was he, who equated Jesus with God, c. it was he, who started this idea of jesus dieing for the sins of mankind d. it was he who ordered the abolition of Moses law, e. it was he who led a compaign against circumcision. f. It was he, who single-handedly changed the face of simple teachings of Jesus, into a complicated Roman and Greek philosophy filled religion. g. He by all accounts is the originator of Present Day Christianity (which should be named as Pauline Christianity and not Christianity of Jesus. ) Every one who conducts unbiased study of Christianity and its development comes to the same conclusion. 3. St. Paul and his contribution to NT: a. His being more learned is not the only reason that he has most books in NT. It is because of fundamental importance of his letters in the theology of Pauline Christianity that his followers included most of his letters as scriptures. b. Paul preached Christianity to Gentiles and they having little or no knowledge of Judaism and its jurisprudence came under his influence and his party grew at much faster rate than that of Jesus Chosen disciples. That is why we do not see much record of what jesus Chosen Disciples did after their Master left the earth. Even St. Peter and St. Barnabas vanish from the scene after Council of Jerusalem (mentioned in Ch. 15 of books of Acts). 4. Questions on Eid al Azha: a. Sacrificing a goat or sheep is an act of goodness on the day of Eid Al Azha. It is not an article of faith and not a dogma. b. But if some one stays away from either sacrificing an animal himself or even witnessing it, on the ground that he is more merciful, then he or she should think that if they are more Merciful than the Merciful Creator who created these animals for use of human kind? c. If any one stays away on theological ground, then he has deviated from true path, if some one is of weak heart then he or she could be excused. Allah Knows Best.

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Q31. What is Witness System in Christianity ? Ans. A Strange Phenomenon While discussing issues with our Shielaa the Great and other Stalwarts and experts on Christianity, I found a very strange phenomenon. And that is "Bigger is the claim made on behalf of Jesus , Lesser is the information from the Lips of Jesus"!! May be it went over the head of many of you people, let me provide some clarifications. If you ask our Shielaa the Great and other experts, they would write pages upon pages, and even books on every aspect of their religion. They will explain in minutest details, How Adam and Eve sinned, how they were kicked out and how that sin got transferred to their sons and daughters. And then how God (unable to forgive the sin, because of some stupid law He made about sin to be expiated thru blood) had to send His own Begotten Son to earth. And do that God had to "interfere" with the sex life of a "Virgin" (to break the mysterious Sin-Transfer Cycle, in which when any male sperm, mingles with any female sperm, the sin gets transferred. However if one of the Sperm is from God (like that Higgins Boson type of thing), the sin stops transmitting, a very strange and grotesque picturisation). And then when the God' Own Child was born and then led to the cross, his blood (was any blood really spilled during the process I have to double check), the mysterious curse was broken. Now God "Could" forgive His servants (he "went around" that stupid law He had made) and so He abolished the Law and allowed people to live under grace. But that is not all. This Grace is not free or for every one. One MUST have to believe that Son of God died for his sins, otherwise there is no salvation for him / her. These are really great claims to make, and one would expect that Jesus might have to spend most of his "prophetic life" explaining these concepts to his people / his chosen disciples. But when we look at the "Great numbers of Scriptural Proofs submitted in support of these claims" we find very few from the lips of Jesus. Our Shielaa the Great and other Experts, Quote from so many books of OT and NT (mostly Paul') is support of their arguments, but very little of this is from the Lips of Jesus!!

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It seems that either Jesus was not knowing about these things or knew it but did not want to reveal it to any body, so that the whole plan of God would be "kept a closely guarded Secret"!! Jesus did not want any one to get a scent of what was God's Secret Plan, so that he could be "led to cross and hanged quickly" so that the "Greatest Event in the whole history of Human Race" be passed on "Unnoticed and no one getting any wise". And when the Crucifixion was over and humanity was saved, even then jesus did not appear to whole nations and gave them Blessings and asked them to rejoice thank God for His Blessings, he remained hidden and "appeared" to only a Few of his followers. Finally Jesus "broke the veil of secrecy" by talking is secret to one his Enemy Turned Disciple (I mean St. Paul) and use him as a mouth piece to explain it to the whole world. People might think I am making it up and it did not happen this way, let us see from the available evidence in Bible, what I say is true or false!! A. Immaculate Conception of Jesus: How many people "Knew" about it? According to Bible, Father, Holy Ghost, and Mary "only" knew about it. I do not know if "zygote" of Jesus "knew" that he was being planted in Mary's womb!! Even Joseph the Carpenter (betrothed husband of Mary) know nothing of the plan ("But before they came together, she was found to be with child thru the Holy Ghost" is the uncouth account we find in Matt. 1:18) B. Virgin Birth of Jesus: Virgin Giving Birth? That too a God's Only Begotten Son, an event that was Unique in the annals of human history, never to be repeated again. It would have been a world shattering event. But how many people "knew" that a "Virgin women" has given Birth to a Child? No one except Mary and her Husband Joseph!! Can you believe it? My personal view is that the story of Joseph the Carpenter was "invented" so that the birth of Jesus could look like a "natural birth". Will it be a very strange event if "First child of a newly married couple arrives a few months earlier?" Most of you people know that it is not so strange!! (In many Modern Households Parents get married when their children are many years old!!) C. Did Jesus' Chosen Disciples "Knew" that Jesus was born without a Human Father:?

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If we look at Gospels, we do not find written that Jesus and his disciples ever took up this subject, in private or in public. In NONE of his debates with Jews of his time and in his so many sermons, Jesus ever referred to his being born without any human father. Does is not look strange to you, that this info was kept as a secret between Jesus and his disciples also. B. Virgin Birth of Jesus: Virgin Giving Birth? That too a God's Only Begotten Son, an event that was Unique in the annals of human history, never to be repeated again. It would have been a world shattering event. But how many people "knew" that a "Virgin women" has given Birth to a Child? No one except Mary and her Husband Joseph!! Can you believe it? My personal view is that the story of Joseph the Carpenter was "invented" so that the birth of Jesus could look like a "natural birth". Will it be a very strange event if "First child of a newly married couple arrives a few months earlier?" Most of you people know that it is not so strange!! (In many Modern Households Parents get married when their children are many years old!!) C. Did Jesus' Chosen Disciples "Knew" that Jesus was born without a Human Father:? If we look at Gospels, we do not find written that Jesus and his disciples ever took up this subject, in private or in public. In NONE of his debates with Jews of his time and in his so many sermons, Jesus ever referred to his being born without any human father. Does is not look strange to you, that this info was kept as a secret between Jesus and his disciples also. D. Crucifixion: Now we come to the most interesting part of the whole story. It was this Crucifixion that was the whole crux of the matter of Jesus being sent to earth. Let us see how many people "knew" about it according to the Biblical records. a. That Jesus will die for the sin of humans: 1. I find no other person except John the Baptist (that too only according to Gospel of John and no other Gospel), knew the whole plan, that Jesus will die for humanity and

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take away their sins. (Did John the Baptist "knew" about the concept of original sin and it being transmitted to all humans, we are not so sure) 2. Apart from him, no one knew about it. The disciples of Jesus had no idea of what is going to happen. b. Jesus' arrest and conviction: This was a momentous moment for the whole of human kind, Did any of the perties "knew" what they were doing and what would be the consequences? Let us analyze it. 3. Jesus: Might have known it (at least his godly part, not his "human" part, because he prayed to God to remove the cup if it is possible). 4. Judas Iscariot: He did not knew it. And then how should be judge him? Should we commend him or should we criticize him? 5. People and Sanhedrin: They did not know it, otherwise they would have brought the verdict of "Guilty as charged" without carrying out the debate and calling for the evidence. 6. Pontius Pilate: He also was not aware of the plan. He might have toppled the cart with his remarks "I find no fault in him". The whole plot was going to be jeopardized, we should kiss the hands of those people at Sanhedrin who sent Jesus back to him with message to "get away with it". Could any one imagine, what would have happened to human race if Jesus was let off? E. Jesus Rising from the Dead: This was again a "world shaking event", never ever before in human history a "Dead Man had risen" and never again it shall happen. It was the supreme moment, when Christ conquered death was it not an event that should be witnessed by every one or as many people as possible? But if we read account of Bible, no one SAW the actual Resurrection!! A handful of people saw only "Risen Christ"!! Can you beat it? What was the worry for any one to worry when he had conquered death? Why was it to be kept secret and hidden from public eye? But this is what happened, the news about "risen Christ" spread thru the words of mouth. Eleven Disciples of Jesus met him, plus a few men and women, and then no one saw him again.

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It was a closely guarded secret from beginning to an end. F. Living in the period of Grace: Don't you think it was a momentous occasion? Humanity getting the stigma of Original Sin being removed? Law being abolished and people living in the Grace? Do you know how many people were taken into confidence? Only Two People!! Jesus knew it and Jesus told Paul (secretly, appearing to him in visions). That is all!! The chosen disciples of Jesus had no idea about living in grace (unless of course Paul told them and they had a debate with him and then no one knows what happened) That is what we find about the situation of "Most Fundamental teachings of Christianity"!! G. Miracles of Jesus: Compared to the secrecy maintained about the "real mission of Jesus". We found that there was no secrecy on the front of Miracles. Every one was free to watch them and as often as one wished them. Because according to Gospel records, wherever Jesus went, he was followed by a large multitude of sick people, blind, lepers, one legged, deformed body parts, demon possessed and Jesus cured them all. He fed thousands of people with a small amount of food, he walked on water, he silenced storms and tornadoes. There was no problem in showing these miracles and signs to every one on the street. But when it came to 'Real Mission" a veil of secrecy covered things. This is my study, let us hear from Experts and Scholars, how do they think of this small matter.

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[QUOTE who="NQ"] Q32. Briefly, briefly because I am not at my computer until approximately Monday, my God by means of his Son, Jesus Christ, tells me not to get even with people. I like that better than listening to someone who tells me that I can return evil for evil. In fact, I am very grateful that God has blessed me with this information so that I can listen to Him. With that in mind and with the loving qualities that Jesus portrayed while on this earth, I am happy that I know this and also that such a loving God would not torture anyone in such a thing as hellfire [/QUOTE] Ans. Let us wait till Monday for your computer to get repaired. So I think you are posting off the cuff remarks so to say. It is very sentimental and very idealistic and very romantic to issue such statements like Love your enemy and Do not repel evil with evil. These statements are used to tamper justice with mercy. If there be no punishment, the world would come to chaos. These statements are not to be taken literally and at face value. In the personality of God, both Mercy and Justice have their places. He is ready to pardon His servants, provided they ask His Pardon and repent and they correct their ways. But to those who continue to reject His message and challenge His authority .and create mischief on earth and mislead other humans well they shall see the Justice Side of the God. But I think we have moved into the differences!! So let us wait till Monday and hope your computer gets repaired and it would be all normal on the western front.

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[QUOTE who="Isdzit"] Q33. I think the virgin birth was a lie fabricated by the Roman Church to support the bigger lie that Jesus was a demigod fathered by God. Didn't Joseph Goebbels say something to the effect that the bigger the lie the more people believe it? [/QUOTE] Ans. Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ is not so strange, when we consider that is was an Act of Creation by God of this Universe. Do you mean to say that God of Universe who created such a huge universe and every thing in it which are so complicated is so powerless that He cannot create a human without any male intervention? Yes it was extraordinary , that is why it was a Miracle of God. But it was not Unique, before Jesus, Adam was created without any father or mother and his wife Eve was created without any mother. That is why Quran confirms the Virgin Birth of Jesus.. and justifies it, as it being an Act of God. What Goebbells said was something different. You can include in that Jesus being God and Son of God or God being a Trinity. In such cases the bigger is the lie.more people would believe in it. But you cannot put truth and lies in the same basket. Truths have their own force of conviction and acceptance by the people. Allah Knows best.

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[QUOTE who="UHUH"] Q34. Jesus: You shall pay for the blood of all the prophets your forefathers have slain!(Luke 11:51) "The Pharisees held a council on how they might kill Jesus" (Matt 12:14) Banu Nadir sent 3 assassins disguised as rabbis to kill Muhammad (Sunan Abu Daud) Muhammad had no reason to show mercy on those killers of prophets who tried to kill him; they are not his people and yet he DID NOT execute Banu Nadir "You will always find treachery in them, except a few among them. But forgive them and overlook their misdeeds" (Quran 5:13) [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Chastisement of Jews: 01.You have spoken very correctly, Jesus did tell Jews about the chastisement of Jews in coming days. 02. But the chastisement which Jesus spoke was not at the hands of our prophet. Most of that was at the hands of Romans (when they took the land of Palestine and forced Jews out of that land and dispersed them thru out nations of Europe) 03. Then persecution of Jews started under Christians and continued till the very middle of 20th Century. Persecution of Jews by Muslims is very little compared to what they have suffered at the hands of Europeans and Christians. But somehow or the other they present only the Muslim side of Chastisement and down play what Romans and Christians did to them. B. Our Prophet and Jews: 04. The Jews of Arabia were not even considered proper Jews by their own Jewish majority / Diaspora . They were a sort of back water and toned down Jews according to their standards of racial purity. 05. I doubt any Jewish historians of that age even mentions about Arabian Jews in their books as any major population or concentration of Jews. And then these Jews were not concentrated in one place, they were distributed in the North Western parts of Arabia which started from Madina and continued till the borders of Syria,.

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There were small Jewish colonies all along this part of Arabia. 06. In Medina itself three different Jewish Tribes lived. They were often fighting with each others and had affiliations with different Arabic tribes of Madina. C. How our prophet dealt with Jews: 07. The Jews of Arabia were never known as warriors and any military forces.their image was that of people with the book and people that deal in lending money. 08. Our prophet first invited Jews of Medina to accept Islam and become part of the upcoming Islamic nation, but not only they refused, but became his worst enemies and joined ranks with his enemies the Rejecters of Makkah and Hypocrites living inside Madina. 09. They were a sort of enemies from Inside, I doubt if any country or nation can tolerant such forces to reside inside its own nation and destabilize it from within. But our prophet, a peaceful, peace loving and a just and equitable person, was also a ruler and administrator. His mission was not only to preach religion to people, but also to establish an Islamic state on the land. 10. Jews were one of the hurdles, not very big, but a sort of nuisance, the ones who will work in the background, have secret links with outside enemies and spread rumors and try to lower the moral of Muslim and Islamic forces. They had to be dealt with and dealt with Firmly. That is what our prophet did, effectively, quickly and with very little blood shed. 11. These days, Jews and Christians only mention chastisement of Banu Quraizah and present them as a typical and normal way in which our prophet dealt with Jews of his times. 12. They forget that Banu Quraizah were Exceptions and not general rule in which our prophet and Muslims dealt with Jews. I know of no other instances in which Muslims anywhere in the world executed Banu Quraizah type of judgement any where on Jews. They were exceptions and remained exceptions thru out 1400 years of history of Islam. E. Examples from Prophets Life: 13. Let us see how our prophet dealt with many Jewish tribes and their colonies in Madina and elsewhere in Arabia: a. Jewish Tribe of Bani Qainquah: They were living inside Medina, they violated the Peace Treaty with Muslims and prophet ordered them to leave Medina with their bag and baggage.

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b. Tribe of Banu Nadheer: They were also living inside Madina. They also violated peace Treaty and took up arms against Muslim. Prophet ordered them to leave Madina carrying their goods which could be transported on camels. c. Tribe of Banu Quraizah: They were living inside Madina and they also violated the peace treaty at a very critical juncture endangering the security and survival of nascent Islamic state. They were given exemplary punishment (according to their own scriptures), and about which Jews and Christians are weeping and shedding crocodile tears even today !! d. Jews of Khaibar: It was situated about 400 Kms from Medina in the north direction. Prophet conquered them and made a peace treaty with them on payment of Tribute (JIZYA). e. Jews of Fadak: This was also a small village near Khaibar. They also made peace with prophet after payment of JIZYA. f. Jews of Teima, Ala and others: Prophet made peace with all these tribes after they agreed to pay Tribute. So standard models in which prophet and Muslims dealt with Jews was for them to pay tribute and leave peacefully inside their lands and practice their own religion. So any one presenting treatment of Banu Quraizah as normal way is not telling the truth. He or she is either ignorant, misguided or tries to create mischief. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Shielaa"] Q35. 01. The Jews agitated for the death of Jesus but it was the Romans who killed him. Jewish law did not allow for crucifixion as it was a barbaric torture and their laws did not support them doing it. Herod was not a wimp and it was he who ordered the death of Jesus even though he symbolically wiped his hands of the matter. 02. What the Jews hated was being shown their hypocrisy by Jesus. They didn't want to lose their positions of power in the roman empire. Jesus stated give to Caesar what is his and give to God what is his. 03. Christians have moved on from the death of Christ and even though I don't support the catholic church they have apologized for stating that the Jews killed him. 04. The Jews are most definitely God's chosen people and this really upsets the followers of Allah. He is a false god and always will be. There have always been Jews in "Palestine" unlike Arabs 05. The hatred between Muslims and Jews started in the 7th century when Jews denied the false god that was being promoted by Muhammad, so don't lie it is clearly documented in many places in the Koran [/QUOTE] Ans. Let me respond to the creation of History and glossing over your own problems and then putting all blames on Islam and Muslims. A. Romans Killed Jesus: 01. Romans might have killed Jesus, but it was on the insistence of Jews. It were jews who tried jesus in their Sanhedrin and passed guilty verdict against him. 02. Then as they had No Power to kill any one (they were a subject race to Romans) they took the matter to them first to Herod and then to Pontius Pilate. 03. They were 100 % behind Romans that Jesus be crucified and no Jew raised his voice against it. They even said let his blood be on our necks and necks of our future generations Obviously you do not read your own scriptures. 04. Just see how malicious is your conclusion that it were Roman who killed jesus and not Jews!! B. Jews were Hypocrites: 05. Now you have said a mouthful!! The truth has come out from your mouth.

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06. The love of earthly positions was MORE than their love of God and they mistreated Jesus, one of the Mightiest Messenger of God in the way they treated him. 07. And now you are here to find an apology for them. Why are you in blind love for them? Are you also Jewish? C. Christians have moved on from death of Jesus: 08. Who said Christians have moved on from the death of Jesus? They made that death as center point of their religion!! 09. The whole concept of Risen Christ and Original sin and Atonement comes from the death of Jesus. You call that moving on? 10. And then Christians did not pardon Jews for their crime of being a party to the killing of Jesus, They have persecuted Jews for all those 2000 years. 11. It is only now that Catholic Church and Protestant Church and all other churches are apologizing to Jews for what wrongs they did to them. D. Jews are chosen people of God: 12. I do not know what do you mean be being Chosen people and how God chooses any people or any race. Is His love and choice is as Blind and One Sided as Present day Christians have for Jews? 13. Why would God choose a people and a nation for Killing and plotting to Kill His Own Begotten Son? And have Jews repented of what they did to Jesus? No not by an Iota. 14. Jews were once a chosen people and a chosen race, that was when they were walking in the ways of God. But when they left that path, their status was under cloud. 15. God Did warn them by sending prophets after prophets to repent and correct their ways. God even punished Jews so that they might repent, deportation to Babylon was one such warning. They did repent after 70 years of captivity and their chosen status was restored.

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16. But their repentance was only temporary and then fell back to their own ways.that was when Jesus was sent to the Lost Sheep of House of Israel. But they rejected Jesus and their chosen status was suspended once more. This time they suffered an exile of 2000 years to repent and correct their ways. E. Jews and Last and Final Prophet: 17. A final chance was given to jews to come back and follow the Last and Final Prophet and their chosen status would be retained. But true to their form, they rejected the Last and Final Prophet, the same way they did with jesus. 18. Now they were permanently stripped off the title and Jerusalem was replaced with Makkah as new Center of Monotheism. 19. Our prophet dealt justly and firmly with Jews, he was not Jesus, his role was to establish the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and not only announce its nearness as Jesus did. 20. But after initial skirmish in Medina, Muslims have not fought any major battle against Jews for past 1400 years. It was only a Joint operation of Jews and their Long Lost Bosom Friends, i.e. Christians that has pitted Jews against Muslims from 1917 onwards. 21. In all those dark centuries when Jews were being persecuted by Christians in Europe and elsewhere, it were Muslims who gave Jews safe heavens to come and settle down. Now Jews are paying back Muslims for that kindness with compound interest. 22. I marvel at your cheek saying that Jews and Christians have always been friends and it were only Muslims who hated Jews!!

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[QUOTE who="M 114"] Q.36 Apostle means to be sent. We have the testimony of Paul himself, and of Ananias and of the other apostles. Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: We also have the testimony of the Spirit which worked wonders by him. Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, . Let me ask you what evidence do you have Paul was not an apostle? . As a Messianic I have no problem with what Paul taught. If you wish to discuss I am willing to answer any questions you may have regarding his teaching. [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Proofs that Paul was an Apostle of Jesus: So if Paul claims that he was an apostle of Jesus, it is sufficient for you to accept him as an Apostle of Jesus? And then who is this Ananias? Has he written any book? It was Luke who mentioned his name and Luke was no Apostle of Jesus either. Just look at your proofs, you keep on demanding proofs from us on those prophesies while you yourself accept Paul as an Apostle of Jesus, without any proof whatsoever. B. Why I reject Paul as An Apostle of Jesus: The proofs that Paul was NEVER an apostle of Jesus are as clear as sun light on a clear day, consider the following: a. Paul NEVER met Jesus while, Jesus was alive and walking and teaching on this earth and choosing his Apostles and Disciples. How can he claim after death of Jesus that he has been appointed as an Apostle of Jesus? It is the most self serving claim. b. Before his alleged conversion, he was an avowed enemy of followers of Jesus so that shows his mental condition to start with. c. The4n after his conversion, he DID NOT go to the Chosen Disciples of Jesus and learnt from them about teachings of Jesus, instead he started preaching HIS teachings right away and claimed equal and bigger status than those chosen disciples of Jesus.

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d. he fought with Peter, with James, with Barnabas and with every one who was preaching true teachings of Jesus. e. He NEVER EVER quotes from Jesus anything in all his letters. He was a strange Apostle of Jesus, who never quotes anything from his Lord and Master!! Have you EVER heard of any Apostle who will quote from everywhere but nothing from who chose him as his apostle? f. His preaching are diametrically opposite to those of Jesus, he abolished Torah and all laws of OT and considered it as a curse, while Jesus was following these laws up to end of his life. PS: What type of Messianic Christian are you, if you do not follow the Laws of Moses? It seems like Paul , you also have chosen a wrong title for yourself!!

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[QUOTE who="Michael"] Q37. Just in Christianity 40,001 different belief structures and sects, each ONE using the same DIVINE INSPIRED words of the bible to PROVE each of their CONFLICTING doctrines.........Does that make sense? [/QUOTE] Ans. You are very right; there are hundreds of thousands of Churches and Denominations in Christendom. They all differ with each other in major or minor issues and do not get along well with each other. It is only because they have no power and authority in countries, we do not see affects of their bickering and anger against each other. But in centuries gone by, these Churches and denominations were very powerful and they fought against each other and caused much blood bath and human suffering. Having said all this, let me tell you about a prophesy made in 7th Century CE about this division and bickering amongst Christians. Listen first to this Quranic Verse: From those too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message which was sent to them: so We stirred up Enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment, and soon will God will show them what they have done (Ch5, Verse 14) Writer of Quran (if you claim it was our prophet) could know only about situation of his time, how could he see so far away and prophesize that enmity and hatred between Churches and Denominations shall continue till the End of Time. Any one who could see so far, would only be the God, the Lord of Time and Universe and everything in it!!

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[QUOTE who="Skeptic"] Q38. 01. Sin is the breaking of God's law. If God says "Do not lie" and you lie, then you have broken His law and sinned. When you sin, you offend God because it is His law that you have broken. 02. The law, then, is a standard of moral purity. The Old Testament contains the Law of God. It is a perfect standard because it is God's standard. .. 03. Therefore, breaking God's law brings judgment which is separation from God. " .. 04. If God did not judge the sinner, then He is not upholding His holiness and he would be allowing sinners to go unpunished. 05. Of course, Jesus came to take our place and die for our sins (1 Pet. 2:24). This means that Jesus bore our sin in His body on the cross and paid for them. .. 06. So, replying to the question "What is sin?" is best answered by saying that it is breaking God's law. All people have sinned. Therefore, all people are under God's judgment -- except for those who've trusted in God's provision to escape that judgment in believing in Jesus Christ, God Son. [/QUOTE] Ans. Your post is a mixture of truth and falsehood interlaced one with other. It is this false reasoning that has left you people lopsided in your approach. Let me see if I can clarify some of your mistakes. A. What is Sin 01. You say sin is breaking of Gods law. That is correct but you have to add willful to it. Because if you break law due to ignorance, mistake etc it does not come under sin. So willful breaking of Gods Laws and Commands is a sin which any human does. B. Law of god: 02. Gods laws are mentioned in Torah and in the teachings of Past Prophets of God, that is also correct. C. Effect of Sin 03. When one does a sin, he is removed from the closeness to God that is also correct.

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03A. Wages of sin is not death, because every one tastes death, that is a wrong statement. D. Gods Justice and Mercy: 04. You say that God Must Judge the sinner, this is where you have gone to one extreme. You cannot order God to do this thing or that thing, God does what He Wills and what He wishes. 04A. What you have missed here is another quality of God, that is Mercy and Forgiveness of Sins. God has made the provision of Repentance between Him and mankind. 04B. When a sinner sincerely repents and asks God for forgiveness, God does forgive the sin. Gods anger and justice is therefore for persons who willfully breaks His Laws and Commands and do not repent. This is the part which is found missing in most of your arguments. E. Can any one die for anothers Sin? 05. The Sin is never inherited nor anyone else can pay for the sin of others. So the whole idea of Jesus taking upon him the sins of humankind is a false idea. And this is brain child of Paul and none of the prophets of God taught this. F. Conclusion 06. So concluding, sin is willfully breaking Gods Laws and Commands, since every human is imperfect so every one commits sins and wrongs to varying degrees.. but those who repent and ask God for forgiveness and try to follow Gods Laws to the best of their abilities shall receive His Mercy. But Those who continue to Reject God and His Prophets and commit sins and do not repent and ask for His forgiveness are subject of His Judgment and Justice in the Hereafter. This is the most balanced view on this subject of Sin and Repentance and Forgiveness. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="N4"] Q39. Well, maybe the Kafir will see the light .....or maybe , destructive Jihad will cease and offensive Jihad will begin ....Allah knows best .. [/QUOTE] Ans. Those who say that Jesus is God are also a Type of Kaffirs. Those who say that God is a Triune God are also a sort of Kaffirs. When Jesus returns all types of Kaffirs would cease to exist as they would see the light. Both Offensive and Defensive Jihad would cease to exist and "Whole Humanity" would be united in worshipping "One True Lord of the Universe". This is our belief on "second coming of Jesus"? What is your belief? "Would he take his "own portion" of humanity to Heaven and leave the rest to rot? [QUOTE who="N4"] Q40. 01. ..Well , Christians believe Jesus is Divine ...One God in three Persons ...our humans minds will always have difficulty with His nature.. You "avoided".. "Can an Arab Muslim ..be Mawali ...it means former slave...per "MUQ"..???" [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Yes I know that Pauline Christians believe that Jesus is Divine and that God has a Triune nature. And no one can understand or explain it. You forget to mention that it is such a unreasonable and irrational idea that you cannot explain it and cannot understand it. (Something which is beyond our capabilities and some thing which is unreasonable and illogical are two different things, mind you) They are entitled to have any belief system they want.

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a. But let me remind you that Jesus never knew that God had a Triune Nature and that he was Divine. b. And Moses did not know that God has a Triune Nature and that God is already having a begotten son named Jesus. c. And David did not know that God has a Triune Nature and that God is already having a begotten son named Jesus. d. And Abraham did not know that God has a Triune Nature and that God is already having a begotten son named Jesus. e. And Noah did not know that God has a Triune Nature and that God is already having a begotten son named Jesus. f. And Adam did not know that God has a Triune Nature and that God is already having a begotten son named Jesus. And NONE of the Jewish prophets knew that God has a Triune Nature and has a Begotten Son named Jesus. g. And Last and Final Prophet also did not know that God has a Triune Nature and that God is already having a begotten son named Jesus. So we are of much firmer ground than Pauline Christians, who only have St. Paul as their backer. 02. Initially there were slaves from Arab nations also. In the time of our prophet and First Caliph, there were slaves from Arab tribes. Now Arabs have become 100 % Muslims and there is no fight between Islamic and Non Islamic forces, so the question has become a theoretical one and not practical one. But there is no LAW that an Arab CANNOT become a slave, if the situation arises.

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Chapter-3 On Hindus, Hinduism and Hindu Muslim relations in India


Q.41 [QUOTE who="Vaydheya"] 1-- MUQ miyan , your memory has been eclipsed by effect of age . At least you are about to cross 60 means aap satthiya gaye ho . You have forgotten that VALMIKI was the contemporary of Lord Ram hence his RAMAYAN was also the evidence of existence of Lord Ram . 2-- In the same way Vedvyas was the contemporary of Lord Krishna . 3-- Teachings of Lord Budhha are present in TRIPITIKAS and these were scripted under the observation of Anand who was dearest pupil of Lord Buddha and was witness of all speeches of Lord Buddha . 4-- Guru Nanak to Guru Govind Singh --- Which type of proof do you want about their ' spiritual greatness '? PS : How can you know that Lord Ram or Lord Krishna or Lord Buddha were great or not ? At least you are a hatemonger....or in other words -- you are a Muhammadan . You questioned on Guru Nanak and i ask to you what is the proof that Muhammad was the prophet of God while his many works are more heinous then any evil person such as rape with 9 year old baby girl and rape with his own daughter in law Jainab . [/QUOTE] Ans. 1. So Lord VALMIKI was a contemporary of Lord Ram, that makes only one Person. The God comes down to earth in human form to present Himself as role model for billions of Indians for thousands of years and we have only ONE eyewitness account? How are you SURE that Lord VALMILKI wrote the truth? Why cant he be like one of those Court Poets and historians who only sing praises for their kings and rulers? Why no one else in whole India wrote about Ram? And how the original manuscript of VALMIKI was protected and preserved thru out these centuries? These are not mere idle questions, these are serious questions that need to be answered. Mere Guess work and assumptions donot work here. 2. What I wrote about Lord Ram and VALMIKI is also applicable for Lord Krishna and VEDVYAS. God comes another time to India in human form and we have only one Eyewitness account?

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3. Again we have every thing reduced to testimony of One Disciple of Lord Buddha. He was the person who had millions of followers, he changed the face of India from Idol based religion to some thing which was against idol worship. And we only have his teachings recorded by ONE Disciple. And are you sure that TRIPTIKAS we have today are the same one which Anand supervised? 4. I said I have nothing against Sikh Gurus, they might be great leaders for their community. But they were not prophets, because the door of prophethood was closed 1400 years back. So no new REVEALED religion shall come from God. But people will concoct their own religions there is no dearth of that. We have Bahaism, we have Qadianis, we have Sai baba, we have Rajneesh and all sorts of people. PS: a. I did not show any disrespect for Lord ram, Krishna, Lord Buddha or Sikh Gurus. b. I do not reject that Lord Ram of Lord Krishna were not prophets of God, I only say that I do not know, we do not have enough informations on them from reliable sources. c. Being a Muslim means that we should be tolerant of other peoples faiths and their religious personalities. Being tolerant does not mean that you start believing in contradictory things. d. The things which you wrote about our prophet shows what a hateful person you are and the personal comments you make on me and my age show that what type of mean person you are. Lady Aiyesha was his lawfully wedded wife and Zainab was not the daughter in law of our prophet. Zaid her earlier husband was not real son of our prophet. Just because you call some one as your son, does not become your real son. You cannot create these relationships just with your mouth. No one , except your true relations can become your Mother, Sister, Father and Son just because you make them. This is a legal issue and islam has its own views on it. And the word rape which you use shows your dirty mind, to view the sexual relations between lawfully wedded husband and wives. So both your allegations are baseless and only show the meanness of your mind and thoughts and your malicious nature. e. If sixty is the age at which people loose their minds, then you should sack most of your MP s Ministers, including PM and all your religious Gurus and all those who control RSS and BJP.because most of them are past their sixties. And even Amitabh Bacchan should be removed from KBC because he is above sixty!!

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f. I am observing you people commenting on my age, and I hope all of you shall go to jungles when you will reach to the age of sixty or you might commit suicide and reach NIRVANA and never reach the age of sixty. And how you treat your parents if they are above sixty? Using the same pronouns as you use for me? I kept silent for many weeks, but it seems you people never take a hint, do you? [QUOTE who="Destroyer"] Q42. 01. Just a question : why would any HINDU even if he is non extremist call god as ALLAH ?i think kanti magazine is a fraud magazine and all the stories put up there are concocted 02. THE HINDUS CAN NEVER BE NON EXTREMIST,THEY ARE CNDITIONED 4M BIRTH TO HATE MUSLIMS AND HATE EVRYTHNG NONHINDU AND LOGICAL A NON-EXTREMIST HINDU IS A DEAD HINDU !! [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Your post show that you are allergic to Arabic language. Same thing can be called differently in different language. For example, Water is called JAL in Hindi and Sanskrit, it is called PANI in Urdu, it is called AAB in Persian, and MAA in Arabic. So why would be allergic to Arabic MAA when it is same thing as Hindi JAL? Allah is the Sole Creator and Sustainer and Cherisher of this Universe and He is known by different names in different language. He is what is known as YHWH and ELOHIM in Hebrew. He is what is known as God (with Capital G) in English He is what is known as DEUS in French and other European language. He is what is knows as KHUDA and PAR WARDIGAR in Persian. And He is what is knows as ISHWAR and PARMESHWAR in Hindi and Sanskrit. And He is what is known as Allah in Arabic.

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So why Hindus should be allergic to this Arabic word Allah, it only shows their ignorance and narrowness of mind and hearts. 02. I do not agree with you that EVERY Hindu is an Extremist Hindu. Most of Hindus are peace loving and very tolerant towards other religions. It is very small percentage of them who are extremist and these extremist Hindus was who were responsible for partition of India in 1947, and if they do not change their course, they might be responsible for another partition of India very soon. The Name you picked for yourself might prove to be true, you could be a destroyer of India, I would suggest you to be more careful and less extremist in your views. It is not good for your health also!! PS: Your Vitriol against KANTI magazine shows your mean and hateful nature. You have turned against the Magazine because it spreads truth and light in Hindi language for people who speak only Hindi. [QUOTE who="Dragnet"] Q43. 01. MUQ, I'm surprised when you think that posts like this can cause me pain. 02. Being blatant in speech is not always a virtue. Many times people resort to blatant behavior as a last ditch attempt to stand their ground. 03. The ultimate proof that can be had in both temporal and religious matters is experiential proof. I can see that there are many assumptions in your post when you detail the merits of having a last prophet. 1)Your first assumption is that too much of a good thing is a bad thing. This is why you are against the concept of too many people having direct or indirect access to God. 2)Second assumption on your part is that too many prophets can lead to all round confusion. Hence having a single prophet is desirable in terms of avoiding confusion. But aren't prophets more like lamps that connect to the source of electricity called God. Or do you think that only one lamp is enough to dispel darkness? 3)Third assumption is that since no major religion sprouted in the last 1400 years, hence the age of wisdom is long over. But wouldn't it be right if I say that religion making, like language making or clan making is pass.

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04. The world is moving towards unification in every aspect of human life, hence concepts like religion with their tendency to pigeonhole people into narrow sects is also dying. [/QUOTE] Ans. Let us "forget" about the first half of your post, which is mostly a subjective opinion and no benefit can be obtained if we keep on posting our views. Let us concentrate on "second half" of your post, where you have mentioned some "assumptions" which you think I made in my posts. That would be more fruitful. 01. Too Many People having Direct Contact with God is a Bad Thing: Most certainly it is a "Bad Thing". Have you ever run a Govt. or any organization or a Company or a Society? Would you make 20 or 50 Presidents, or Prime Ministers or CEO s or only One? What is "wrong" in having so many Presidents, and prime Ministers and CEO s in a country or company? It looks "fun and gives every one a chance"!! It might be fun, but not practical, it would create "chaos" with every one coming up with his "Own Version" of what God told him or (her)!! 02. Too many prophets lead to confusion: Yes it leads to confusion, because of multiple authority. That is why it is general practice of God to send One Prophet to one nation at one time. Where more prophets are sent at the same time, the others have a supporting role to the "Main Prophet". God needs a working society not a "philosopher's concept" of what is an Ideal society. As Creator of Humans, He knows their minds and their ways of thinking and working. 03. End of Prophethood means End of Wisdom: No I did not say that. When the humanity had reached that level of development, God closed the door of prophethood, so that now the entire humanity be joined on a universal religion. The age of wisdom is still there, but we should follow the guidance provided by the last prophet. The advent of Last Prophet was the start of "age of reason and age of science and age of observation". Before that it was mostly the 'age of miracles, the age of wonders, and the age of supernatural"

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04. The World is moving towards Unification: I doubt if the world is moving towards Unification, the world is moving towards materialism and spirituality is going down. It is only Islam which can and is fighting the onslaught of materialism and it is the only religion which is expanding in the "centers of Materialism". [QUOTE who="Blank"] Q.44 Well, I don't know. There is a philosopher currently in India called Dada Bhagwan, he is saying that we are currently very close to WW3, and that after the war it shall be his teachings that shall be followed all over the world. He has also created a city called Simandhar city, he says that after the war India shall be the next super power for 2000-3000 years. All future inventions, scientific and mathematical progress shall be made there. In his speech he also says that people from all over the world shall come and live there. At the same time there is another city in India called Auroville where a similar concept has been created. They even have foreign designed homes for foreigners, such as Japanese designed places and so on. Christianity, Islam, Judaism shall all be wiped off the earth, all those religious places shall be destroyed as they shall be seen by humanity as problem creators. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. India is too full with weirdos like that and all of them are making most fantastic claims. One advantage of living in India is that you get immune from such gurus and those who make such wild claims. 03. Western people on the other hand have never heard such claims and they get overwhelmed and get impressed by the philosophical talks (impressive words, having no real meaning) and way these people dress and some tricks of the hands and they become their disciple and join their group. That is why these Hindu gurus and yogis get so successful in western countries and amass lot of wealth and get so many followers. 04. We have seen many such Indian Missions funded and housed by foreigners. They exist and then they collapse when the guru dies and his mission goes into oblivion. So I do not know what to comment on your post.

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[QUOTE who="IM 2000"] Q45. Thank you for your warm greetings and kind words but I have to decline you by saying a polite "NO" for what you are suggesting. Although I have given up idol worship but it was a part planned in my destiny since my family has been Arya Samaji who never were in to any idol worship. I feel like a much better person now since there is no limit to love people without any hiccups like religion. I remember how difficult it is to bring a Muslim home for a Hindu in India as after he leaves there is always the talk about "him" or "her" ! I see all religions in the same light and can get to the root of the problem fast by seeing the quality of the life they have chosen. I regard Christians as the most logical ones among the believers and find Muslims as the reliable ones for hand work construction, handicrafts and art work. Sikhs are good as farmers, dairy products, Tarkhans. Have you ever read about Christopher Hitchens ? I enjoy following his life whenever I have time. 2. Well said, MUQ ! Modi might turn up at the center as PM but then he will be the PM of "saanth gaanth" or "Tordd marrod" "samjha boojhi" and not some guy sweeping in like Rajiv Gandhi came in with landslide victory. [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Your Choice: It is your choice my brother and it is for you to make choice and that is what you will be responsible for. But I find a slight disbalance in your personality, if you do not mind me saying it. You say your family is Arya Samaji, but it did not prevent you from being an Idol Worshipper. Now after that Near Death experience you have decided to come back to family fold and become an Arya Samaji. Is that a reasonable approach. B. Arya Samaj, a few words about them

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As regards Arya Samaji, I think they want to ride in two boats at the same time. They do not want to worship idols, but at the same time, there is no difference between them an idol worshippers externally or internally. I think the movement of Arya Samaj was influenced by pure Islamic concept of One Creator of universe, as it was becoming very difficult to justify these stone and wood gods and god taking human shapes. But they did not go all the way, and stopped in between to retain the Customs and life styles of their forefathers. This type of approach did not result in any great reformation in Hinduism and Arya Samaj became Arya Samaj in name only. Today we find many Arya Samjis leading the movement for Ram Janambhoomi and Krishna Janambhoomi and being members of RSS and active in Anti Islamic activities and writing books against Islam. C. Christians being the most reasonable of all believers: Pardon me for saying this, but this shows Amateurish knowledge that you have about religions of the world!! Christianity with their belief in Trinity (One God in Three Persons) and Jesus being God in Human form and dying and absolving sins of all Humans are the Most unreasonable of all revealed religions!! And you consider them to be most reasonable. I think you get influenced by their outer appearance and the smiles which their priests hold and outer pomp and show. I do not deny that they are very active in social services and work amongst the poor and sick people. These are good works, but you should have your faith firmly established. D. Modi as PM: Indian politics is strange, but I doubt people will accept an extremist as PM. I am not much of an astrologer, but it would mean a bad omen for India, as the election of GW Bush as President did for USA. USA is on the decline ever since he took over as President of USA and after events of 9/11 , took USA to war against Islam and Muslims, by which it is USA which would be the end looser. If people of Modi like attitude become PM of India, the signs are that India would speed towards splitting.

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[QUOTE who="Troll"] Q46. 1. I am hindu do your islam have any problem if I worship idols? 2. do you think rest of non muslims like hindu or who do not follow islam are 'kaffir' 3. do your islam teaches you to behead Hindus as kaffir for the sake of Allah or muhammad, if they refuses to follow islam? [/QUOTE] Ans. You have asked three questions and I will answer all three of them in short. 1. I have no problem if you worship 1 idol or 1000 idols. It is you who will have to answer to God on the last day, as to why did you worship idols, when it was expressively prohibited in your religious scriptures. The Vedas and other Hindu Scriptures do not tell Hindus to do idol worship. We only tell you this and leave the choice to you. 2. Kafir is one who rejects the message of islam. If you have been told about the message of Islam and then you reject it, you have turned yourself into a Kafir. It is not we, who made you into a Kafir. 3. No, Islam does not teach us to behead every Kafir or Non Muslim. It was never done in entire Muslim history of 1400 years and it shall be never done. However those Kafirs and Non Muslims, who come to fight against Muslims and plot and plan for their destruction, we Muslims are allowed to fight back and defend our lives and faith from their hands. And I do not know any law in any civilized society that takes away this right of Muslims. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Aryans"] Q.47 01. I agree with you that idols can not be the god. But I don't agree with you that the ways of worshipping the god shouldn't be different. How does it matter it if someone joins his both hands or raise his both hands to pray the god ? Just as the names of the god( ishver, allah etc) are different in different geographies and cultures, the ways of worshipping him can also be different. There is no uniform way to worship the god in the world. 02. There are some illogical practices in all religions and these practices should be avoided. 03. Religions have been created by humans. That is why there are some errors in all religions. All the religions say that their way is the right way. Many self acclaimed prophets, pirs, saints and babas say that what they are saying are the words of god. But they give no evidence to prove their claim. Ishver has given us the consciousness to know what is wrong and what is right. [/QUOTE] Ans. I think brother, your problem is that you want to travel on two boats at the same time. The doubts mentioned by you are only argumentive type and not basic. They would arise only if God had not sent down true guidance and true way to worship Him thru His Chosen Prophets and Messengers. When true guidance is available, why should people have to devise "alternate ways" to worship and please Him? There is no scripture in the world which tells people to make idols from their own hands and then "think" that by worshipping these idols they are worshipping God. What you see so many different ways going on in our country, are the results of followers corrupting and overruling the means mentioned in their scriptures, with their own invented ways. The same goes for all these "self styled" babas and Pirs and Gurus and god-men, who "claim" to have divine guidance but in reality have none. The door to prophethood was closed 1400 years ago when Last and Final prophet came into the world. Now we have to judge teachings of all these 'self styled' divine guides as to how much they are in conformity to teachings of Last prophet. Unless your basics are clear, you will continue to have these type of doubts and misgivings.

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[QUOTE who="Aryan"] Q.48 01. Idols are not necessary to worship the god. If anybody thinks that these idols are god then he is wrong. Ways of worshiping the god can be different, still the god is same. We can not change him. Kabir said 'nadiya ek ghat bahutere jani sake na samajh ke fere'. 02. God is formless. Some people meditate by creating an image of god in their mind. If someone finds it helpful in worshipping the god then he is free to do that. Because in every way they are worshipping the almighty. We should respect their feelings. 03. Many people say that all the soles are the 'ansh' of the supreme being. There are some pure soles(great people) who acts as the messengers of god. People can have different views on this subject. 04. I condemn those people who spread hatred in the name of religion. God don't say that we should hate each other in the name of religious faith. 05. You can not say that all the abrahmic religions don't create the image of god. We can see the image of Jesus in every church, who is the god of Christian brothers. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. To create Idols itself is wrong and not approved by God, so any one who creates idols and worships them is doing wrong and that act prevents them from worshipping the true God. God has not left us wandering and "devise" our own ways to worship Him. He has sent prophets and messengers to show people what is the best way to worship Him. Poets like Kabir etc. have no authority to devise their own philosophy on these matters. 02. What image of God any individual has, it should stay within their minds and should not be reproduced in any form. If God had not sent guidance, then your contention that every one is free to use their imaginations would have been correct. Now after God has sent His prophets and thru them showed people the proper way to worship God, if even then some one wants to "insist on his own way" then it is like, a good quality Multi Lane Highway is provided and yet some one wants to leave it and use a dirt road with many twists and turns and not knowing to which direction it goes.

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03. No Souls are not ANSH of Supreme Being. Souls are also created by God, but they are not materialistic. But they are neither God, nor ANSH of God. These theories are people's own invention. 04. Every one should condemn people who spread hate and hatred in the name of religions. But we should always tell the truth and do not be hypocratic in saying that "all religions are true and all lead the way to God and it does not matter if you follow this religion or that religion, the end of all religion is same" etc. But we should be tolerant of people what choice they make and we should not discriminate with these people in having trade and business and employment etc. 05. Christians definitely defied God' laws when they create images and statues of Jesus and worship it. And they create statues of their saints and Mary and worship them. They have no proofs from their scriptures to do so. This statue and idol making is what they "learned" by living amongst Romans who were pagans and used to make images and idols and statues of their gods and heroes. The God of Christians in the same God of Jews and God of Muslims and ISHVAR of Hindus!! Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Aryan"] Q.49 01. In my view idol can not be the 'ishver'. It can only be a means to worship the god. We can worship the god even without creating his idol. And Ishver neither takes birth in human form nor he begets children. 02. He sometimes sends his 'ansh' in human form for the sake of mankind. [/QUOTE] Ans. a. Idol Worship: You are speaking here a contradiction. How can you "create" an idol and start worshipping ISHVAR thru that Idol? Who gave you "authority" to make that Idol of ISHVAR. How can you give shape to someone, who does not have shape? And the moment you make an Idol of ISHVAR. You bring Him down to be like a human being and create all human like qualities in Him. The Idols have a family, wife and children and they fight with each other and whole time people's attention is divided into serving the needs of these human like idols (you can see all that Puja Rituals and the money which these idols collect). So Idol worship, prevents you from Worshipping ISHVAR. That is why Idol worship is prohibited in every revealed religion and every prophet has spoken against it. Those who justify Idol worship in any shape and form are misleading common people and taking them away from worshipping ISHVAR. This is the least I can say on this topic. b. Prophets and Messengers: You are again mixing truth with falsehood when you say that he sends His "ANSH" for the sake of Human kind. No ISHVAR does not sends His ANSH, He cannot be divided. He only "Chooses" a Human from any nation and sends His revelation to him, and that human acts as ISHVAR appointed Guide and Teacher and Role Model for his people.

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That is called Prophet or Messenger of ISHVAR. They are not ISHVAR, nor Sons or Daughters of ISHVAR, they do not have any ANSH of ISHVAR in them. But they are Chosen by ISHVAR, they receive revelation from ISHVAR. They are perfect guide for their people and nation. People taking their Prophets and Messengers as ISHVAR or having ANSH of ISHVAR and making statues and idols of them and worshipping them are at fault as those who make idols of ISHVAR from their own imaginations. There is logically no difference between the two, because both of them are worshipping something from their "Own Minds" which ISHVAR did not ordain. In these matters of beliefs , one should be very clear. That is why I wrote in the as clear words as I can, so that there be no doubt, between True Path and the Slippery Path. Allah Knows Best. [QUOTE who="Aryna"] Q.50. MUQ, what is the difference between Allah and Isver. Almighty is called God in English, Isver in Sanskrit and Allah in Arabic. How does it matter if someone call him Isver and not Allah ? [/QUOTE] Ans. This is a very good question you asked. Yes Allah is known by many names in different languages. In English they call Him God, in Hebrew they call Him YHWH and ELOHIM. In Sanskrit they call Him as ISHWAR. There is no problem in calling Allah as ISHWAR. But the problem comes when we discuss the Attributes and Qualities of Allah or ISHVAR. If some one makes statue of Allah or God or ISHVAR then it is wrong. If some one says that Allah or ISHVAR or God beget a Son or Daughter, then it is wrong. If some one says that ISHWAR came to earth in human form then also it is wrong.

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If your concept of ISHWAR is free from all these impurities, then you are very close to Allah. [QUOTE who="Eric"]<quoted text> Q.51 Prior to 1947, Britain controlled the Indian subcontinent. In 1947 the British decided to turn the subcontinent over to self rule. Although the majority of people on the subcontinent were Hindu, there was a sizable minority of Muslims living in well defined areas. The British PARTITIONED the continent into Muslim areas and Hindu areas, giving areas where the Muslims predominated to Muslim self rule. I guess the British were wrong. They should have allowed the Hindu majority to rule the entire subcontinent. Right MUQ?[/QUOTE] Ans. Your comparison of partition of Indian subcontinent with partition of Israel is wrong from almost every angle, let me point out a few mistakes in your analogy: a. British rule in India was itself a travesty of Justice system. Britain had no right to conquer and rule India. (There is similarity in two cases, because Britain had no right to rule and partition Palestine also). b. The demand of partition was raised by Indian Muslims themselves and not from any one living outside India. While in case of Palestine, the demand for home-rule was raised and was agreed by Britain even before their landing the foot. c. Consent of Hindus, the majority community was taken before the partition. Congress party the mainstream Hindu party accepted the partition resolution on June 30, 1947. In case of Palestine Arabs did not agree to the partition. d. Muslims got MUCH LESS land than their population in India at that time demanded, while Jews got much more land what their population demanded. e. No one was imported to live in India or Pakistan from any where outside the subcontinent, it was only re-distribution of population, while in case of Israel, MAJORITY of people were imported to live there. f. British were not totally wrong in partitioning India, but they did not do justice and left some ever bleeding sores like Kashmir, so that India and Pakistan were always fighting over it. In case of Palestine, they cheated Arabs on a much larger scale and all their sympathies and brains and diplomacy was used to get Jews as much land as they can. At the most we can call it a Committed Judge whose aim is not to do justice, but that it should appear to the public that justice is being done.

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g. If Partition was not done and Hindus tried to Rule Over Muslims.. then we do not know what the situation might have been, as Muslims constituted 33 % of population and Hindus were themselves divided into so many castes.. no one could really Rule and Lord over any community in India is my guess. [QUOTE who="Deedat"] Q.52 Dear Qidwai Sahib You dont have complete knowledge of other religions; it is a religious duty of followers of those religions. Why people will do it on their own?.. they do it because they are inspired by their religions. For example lets take Sikhism: it is a religious duty of every Sikh to give 10% of his earnings as charity to people who are needy irrespective of recipients religion or beliefs, it is known as Dasvand. Apart from this Sikh is advised to share .. [/QUOTE] Ans. Dear Brother Deedat Sahib. 01. One is NOT REQUIRED to have full depth and complete study of thousands of religions floating around in the world, otherwise one's life would be fully consumed before he or she can speak a single word! That is why we only ask some basic questions and ask their followers to answer these: a. What are your prophets? b. What are your Basic Scriptures? c. Who wrote them and how are they preserved over these long centuries? People should answer these questions with what best proofs they have, they should not start speaking in "tangent language" and start using some different standards for their own religion and another for other people. 02. Quran came to join people and not separate people. It first recognized that God did send prophets and books to all nations of the world and that all those prophets taught the same message and the same religion which is called Islam (i.e. submit yourself to your God and Creator and do not worship false gods and idols and things which your own hands create). The earlier prophets were sent for a specific country and for a specific time period.

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03. It was in God's plan to send a Universal message and a Universal book at some point in history when the Human Civilization has reached to a certain level of maturity. And for that reason God made every Major Prophet to tell their followers about coming of that Last and Final Prophet. So that last and Final prophet appeared 1400 years back in the land of Arabia and he brought the book which is called Quran for a Universal Guidance. 04. The True followers of old prophets immediately recognized Quran as the same truth which their prophets taught and hastened to join Islam. Those who want to stick to their own religion (for want of their own selves, sticking to their customs and of their forefathers.) bring all types of excuses and objections to somehow stick to their form of religion. It is God only knows about the real reasons of these people's sincerity and their scholarship. 05. We as a Muslims only deal in fundamentals and not in deep study of other religions (unless there be a specific need). Our study shows that Concept of One God and believe in Hereafter is embedded in teachings of all religion. We also know that belief in Hereafter, in angels of God or Swarg and Nark is also embedded in the beliefs of these old religion. 06. We also see that Regular Worship, Charity, Fasting and Pilgrimage are also mentioned in all religion. These are the remnants of Original Religion that are still prevalent in these old religions and can provide convincing proofs to the true Truth Seekers that their religion did originate from God. 07. Now people who want to reject the Last Prophet and the Last Book seem to say to God "Why did you sent the Last Prophet and Why did You sent the Last Book"? We do not force our religion on every one, we give them the message of islam and give them the freedom to choose. 08. What they choose, they will have to answer before their Creator on the last day. I have been very frank with you Deedat Sahib, seeing that you are very civil to me. In light of above, there is no need to analyze those "nuts and bolts" type of details that you have given. 09. Every religion teaches good morals, but good morals and good deeds alone are not enough. They should be supplemented with True faith and True Belief in your Creator also.

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Q. 53. Are Muslims Idol Worshippers? TARK Or KUTARK part-1 We have had the pleasure of hearing a long article from Great Dr. Mahindra Pal Arya. A great quality of any Learned Scholar is show humility and honesty in his writings and speeches. But the way our Great Doctors addresses another Doctor (I mean Dr. Zakir Naik) shows how much inferiority complex he has from him. Before I try to answer some of the points mentioned by Mahindra Pal Arya, I would like a little stroll down the memory lane. May be some people are aware of it, but I am sure that most people on this thread might not be aware of it. A. History of Hindu Muslims Debates in India: 1.It is strange that while Muslims and Hindus had interactions for past 1200 years, history of Hindu Muslim debates is not even 200 years old!! 2. Right from Muslim conquest of Sindh in 8th Century CE till the arrival of British in India and in first quarter of 19th Century, there is no record of any significant open religious debates between Hindus and Muslims. 3. In Hindu literature we find that Religious Debate (SHASTRARTH in Sanskrit) was very common. A Hindu Scholar was not considered High enough, untill he defeated most of his contemporaries in that SHASTRARTH. 4. But fortunately or unfortunately for Hindus and Muslims in India, there was no effort for either side to engage each other into debates. Was it due to Muslims being ruler classes or they had different languages or unaware of each others religions basics and logic, we cannot say. 5. Even when so many Hindus accepted Islam at the hands of Sufi Saints, we find no mention of any efforts from Hindus to engage Muslims in religious debates and refute their religious beliefs. Are Muslims Idol Worshippers? TARK Or KUTARK part-2 B. Christian Muslim Debates: 6. But when British arrived in India in late 18th Century and slowly established their rule over major part of India, lot of activity in religious debates was seen. 7. Main target of British Christian Missionaries were Muslims and not Hindus. Christian Missionaries thought that once they overcame Muslims, convincing Hindus would be like cake walk. 8. So they started their Missionary work and religious debates with Muslims. Initially there was language problems, because very few Muslim scholars knew or talk in English. Christians solved the problem by Learning Persian and Urdu!!

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9. Christians also translated their Bible in Arabic, Persian and Urdu language, so Muslims could have a glimpse of their scripture and produce counter arguments. 10. The period of 1820-1900 is known for many such debates between Christian Missionaries and Muslim Scholars. The most famous of which was held in the City of Agra on 10 April 1854, Between Christian Missionary Rev. CCP Fonders and Maulana RAHMATULLAH of KEIRANA UP. The debate lasted for 3 days and on the third day, the Christian Missionary refused to come for debate and ran away. 11. Soon the Disturbances of 1857 started and Maulana RAHMATULLAH had to leave India and migrate to Makkah. During his stay he wrote his Monumental Book IZHARUL HAQ (Truth Revealed) against Christianity. This is a milestone book and every Muslim Scholar who is in the field of Comparative Religion uses it for reference. This was the book which started the career of Sheikh Ahmad Deedat and Dr. Zakir Naik. C. Arya Samaj and Age of Hindu Muslim Religious Debates: 12. Christian Missionaries soon realized that they are no match for Muslims arguments against their own religion, so they soon stopped the practice of having open debates with Muslim Scholars. They instead started writing books against Islam and its teachings. But the way they had opened gave clues for some Hindu Scholars to engage Muslims in religious debates. 13. It was Swami Dayananda Saraswati who in late 19th Century wrote his books Satyarth Prakash. The main topic of book is to prove superiority of Vedic teachings and Vedic way of worship against teachings and practices of other sects and denominations of Hindus. 14. The book is highly critical of Hindu way of Idol Worship and believes that it was the main reason that resulted in the decline of Hindu Power in India and divided Hindus so many sects and denominations. 15. Swami Ji Criticised all sects of Hindus, Idol Worshippers, Anand Margis, Buddhists, Jainists, Sikhs and other major Hindu sects. In the end of his book, he included criticism of Christianity and Islam in Ch. 13 and Ch 14 of his book. 14. These two chapters are not regarded as works of any deep understanding of either Christianity or Islam by Swami Ji. His arguments are rhetoric and come under the category of KUTARK (Reverse Logic) and not TARK (Logic Proper). And the reason for that is Swami Ji could not read English Arabic, Persian or even Urdu. So what he wrote was based on what he was told by his disciples. Any one can read chapter 13 and chapter 14 of his book and see how weak are his objections and his logic against Christianity and Islam. Are Muslims Idol Worshippers? TARK Or KUTARK part-3

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D. Great Debate of Shahjahanpur UP of 1899: 15. It was in year 1899, when a great debate was held in the city of Shahjahanpur UP between Reps. of different religions of India. There were many sects present, but the real debate was between Arya Samijis and Muslims and this was the first major debate between the two communities. 16. Leading Arya Samjis was Swami Dayananda Saraswati and from Muslim side they had Maulana QASIM of NANUTA, Saharanpur UP, the founder of famous Deoband Islamic Madarsa. Actual debate between these two great religious scholars did not take place, because Swamji knew only Sanskrit or highly Sankritised Hindi, which no Muslim of that time could read or understand. Maulana QASIM requested Swami Ji to either simplify his language or get some one to translate his words into the common language which common people could understand. But Swami Ji refused the request. So Maulana QASIM gave his arguments rebutting objections of Swami Ji and other Arya Samjis and put his own objections to the teachings of Hinduism. Everyone who witnessed that great debate, agreed that Maulana QASIM has presented his case beautifully and answered all objections of Swami Ji and no Arya Samaji could answer the objections which Maulana mentioned against Hindu religion. 17. And that great discussion opened the flood gate of religious debates between Hindus (Mostly Arya Samajis) and Muslims for next 40 to 50 years. 18. In almost every city of North India, debates took place and arguments and counter arguments were hurled at each other and books hurling objections against each other were written. 19. But that bubble soon burst and every one forgot about the religious debate, when the political struggle for independence against British started in 1920 s and then Hindu Muslim riots that started near the same time. 20. This tussle resulted in partition of India in 1947 and formation of Pakistan and then hardly any religious debates between Hindus and Muslims were held in India for next 50 years. 21. It was Dr. Zakir Naik who re-started that debate when he took public lectures propagating Islam and finding common thread between Islam and other world religion. He got his initial inspiration from Sheikh Deedat, but soon gained much more popularity. 21A. And with Internet being available, the circle of debate is thrown open to people with Little of No Knowledge of either their own religion or of whom they are criticizing!!

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21B. And another problem with debates on Internet was that deficiency in religious knowledge was more than compensated with the sharpness of tongue and hurling insults and abuses against each other., While debaters of past generations were revered scholars and they were always civil to each other and refrained from using insults and abuses.. present generation lost all traces of civil behaviour and etiquette. Every one who has seen the outpouring of troubled souls can confirm it. F. Why I presented so much History?: 22. Some people might ask, what is the reason behind me giving so much details and how is that relevant to the reply of Dr. Mahindra Pal Arya to Dr. Zakir Naik? 23. There is a very strong reason, because main objection of Swami Dayananda Saraswati against Islam was that Muslims by Bowing Towards Kaaba and Kissing Black Stone, perform Idol Worship!! 24. So the Brain wave which this Great Dr. MP Arya is not his original but borrowed from Swami Ji!! Are Muslims Idol Worshippers? TARK Or KUTARK part-4 G. Do Muslims worship Kaaba or Black Stone? 25. I mentioned these words TARK and KUTARK earlier also. TARK or logic is ways in which you prove something which is correct from common sense or observation. KUTARK or reverse logic is reasons and arguments by which you prove something which is against common sense and observation. 26. For example, if there is daylight and some one proves that it is because of sun and provides reasoning for it, it will be called TARK. But if someone tries to prove by logic and arguments that this light is from some Distant Star or Planet, it would be called as KUTARK. People might not be able to disprove his logic and arguments, but the inner self of every human would refuse to believe in such a logic. Many more examples can be given about TURK and KUTARK. 26A. Another example of TURK and KUTARK is that we see Police and Military personnel use Uniforms and carry arms openly. Now many Outlaws and Rebel organization also wear Uniforms and carry Arms. If some one by this artificial similarity tries to prove that both Police and Outlaws and Military Persons and Rebels are like each other.then he is using KUTARK and not TURK, no matter how forceful and convincing be the arguments.

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26B. Another example can be that we see Police shooting down Criminals and thieves that run away from the Law and Military personnel kill their enemies by thousands in battle field by hundreds and thousands and use every mean of intelligence and tricks to lure their enemies into trap. Many Underworld dons and Criminal minds also kill human beings in small and large numbers and use their intelligence and skill to find newer and newer methods. If some one uses the Logic and says that since both groups kill humans there is no difference between the two and both deserve equal punishment, every one will say that they are using KUTARK and not TURK. 26. Those who try to prove that Muslims are idol worshippers and worship Kaaba are using KUTARK and not TURK. When any one sees Muslims arranged in rows upon rows, offering daily prayers and then they observe Hindus worshipping their idols, can any one feel that both are doing Idol Worship? No one in his or her right mind would say that they are both Idol worshippers. But our Great Doctor would say No Muslims are performing Idol Worship!! What better example of KUTARK at work!! 27. In the whole act of Muslim prayers, not a single word is addressed to Kaaba, all actions start with Chant of Allah Akbar (I.e. Allah is Greatest) and in Quranic recitation, there is hardly any mention of Kaaba (except few Quranic verses), so no Muslim while praying thinks about Kaaba while praying, instead they think about the Presence of God and His closeness and His attributes and His Mercy. While Hindus praying to their idols address their prayers to that Idol and sing its praises and their attention is on that Idol.is it possible that some one worshipping before Idol of Shiva sing the praises of Vishnu or Brahma or Ganesha? So if some one tries to prove that there is no difference between Muslims and Hindus and they are idol worshippers. I can only see KUTARK and not TARK in their arguments. 27. Now coming to Black Stone, I am sure that not even 0.01 % of all Muslims who come for Hajj rituals, get chance to either Kiss or touch the Black Stone. More than 99.99 % of Muslims performing Hajj therefore complete their Hajj without even seeing the actual stone and when they perform Hajj and UMRAH, and go around the Kaaba the only chant we hear is: LABBAIK, ALLAHUMMA LABBAIK I am present O Allah, I am present, You have no Associates O Allah, I am present, Yours is the Praise, Power and Dominion, O Allah, I am present.

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Do you see anywhere any mention of Kaaba and / or Black Stone? Yet if some one Proves by Logic that No. No,, Muslims are doing NOTHING else but worshipping Kaaba and Black Stone, what else we can say but this is another example of KUTARK and not TURK. 27A. Muslims go around the Kaaba and Turn their faces towards Kaaba during prayers and Try to Kiss and Touch Black Stone when they are near Kaaba. Not because of their own whims and fancies. but because they are asked to do as per Express orders from Allah and His Messenger!! So it is the case of Official Dress and permission to carry arms which we saw in the case of Police and Military. If one effuses to obey Official command he is not a True Muslim. Proving that Muslims do Idol Worship while acting on Express Commands of Allah and His Messenger is another example of KUTARK and not TURK. Are Muslims Idol Worshippers? TARK Or KUTARK part-5 G. Inferiority Complex of Hindus with Respect to Islam and Muslims: : 28. It is the Inferiority Complex of Hindus which is at the back of this Movement to convince to world (and also to Muslims!!) that Muslims also do Idol Worship. 29. If they did not have that Inferiority Complex, they would have proved that Idol Worship is very good and Muslims way of not worshipping Idols is wrong. They should try to prove that their religious scriptures order Hindus to make Idols and then do all those rituals before it (I want to remind our Hindu brothers that before they do such a thing, they should study Satyarth Prakash Written by Swami Dayananda Saraswati, founder of Arya Samaj) 30. They should have sung the praises of Idol Worship and how it helps in Unity amongst Hindus, makes them united and helps in their built up of Character. And how inferior is Muslim practice of praying without their object of worship being before their eyesight. 30. If they do that, I would consider that as TARK, by proving by logic that their way of worship is better and superior to Islams. 31. But if they try to prove by Logic that Muslims are Worst Idol Worshippers on the face of this earth (as Swami Dayananda claimed in his book Satyartha Prakash), it speaks of their Inferiority Complex. They accuse of Muslims which they never do or intend to do.

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32. The whole article of our Great Dr. Mahinder Pal Arya is filled with KUTARTKS and not TURKS. That is my one line comment on his fairly large article. PS: I think there is no need for me to file counter argument against that article of Dr. M.P. Arya. I have tried to cover main points of his arguments. It is not the words of Dr. Zakir Naik which are of authority in Islam, it is the words of Quran and Sayings of Prophet. One might agree or disagree with words and logic and explanations of Dr. Zakir Naik, but not on the words of Quran and sayings of our Prophet, Peace be on him. [QUOTE who="Dragnet"] Q54. The effort taken by MUQ to rebut my claims is appreciable. At least he has not taken the short cut way to oppose me. To a certain extent I agree with him when he says that debates can be pointless if taken beyond a point and especially when people on either side of the debate have made it a prestige issue to not back down. This is why I have consistently refused to entertain debates about who took whom to the cleaners. As long as MUQ insists that knowledge of truth and realization of truth are two different concepts, I will continue to oppose him. The only truth, the only knowledge that can be considered as real is the one which leads to our personal growth in all our human aspects. God's revelation, prophetic revelations, the insights of philosophers are all inferior when compared to the truth which liberates, expands and contributes to the growth of our overall personality. [/QUOTE] Ans. Now our Learned Friend has changed the technique, now is trying to confuse the issue. He is once again pitching for the truth, the one I commented earlier " Actively Seeking the Truth" A. It is Truth we are looking for? Are We?: 01. He says that it is the Truth which is to be followed, trying to give a hint that I am somehow against following truth. 02. The Question is how to know what Truth is and what is the way to know the truth?

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B. Material Versus Non Material Issues: 03. There are issues which relate to material things and issues that relate to Spiritual things. 04. For material things people do experiments and verify with the results obtained and compare it with the proposed theory. 05. That is how science and technology has progressed to our present age and many of the Old and Established theories have been discarded. 05A. And in future many of our present day approved theories would also be discarded. No one should have any emotional attachment with any particular theory, so much so that even if proofs are supplied, they reject it, like our Flat Earth Society. C. Islam and Material Issues: 06. I can say about Islam (and not any other religion) that it is never against any Proven Scientific facts or theory and it never opposes progress of science and technology. 07. Islam actually draws our attention to the Universe and everything in it and how they are working and asks us to ponder on these things and think about the Power, Wisdom, Knowledge and Mercy of Our Creator. 08. How strange is when we see that Human Scientists of our time use the evidence from this Universe to Prove that there is no Creator!! D. Issues that are Non Material: 09. But there is another sphere which is Spiritual and Meta Physical; there are no physical experiments which can verify the Truth of our theories.. 10. These are the issues related to what is our purpose of life on Earth and what will happen to us when we die and about Qualities and attributes of our Creator etc. 11. If left to themselves, humans would continue to grope in the darkness and keep on inventing one theory and another and thinking and trying to argue that this is Truth. 12. That is why our Creator in His infinite Mercy has established this system of Revelation, by which He sends the Guidance to one Person Chosen by Him and who acts as a Prophet and Messenger for his people.

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13. The prophets are the most sincere Well-Wisher of their people and they are persons with Highest Moral and Straightforward Character. They are personification of Truth and Fidelity and the things they tell are Truth and Nothing but Truth. 14. So if some one is really in pursuit of Truth (as these people claim), they should fist check and analyse teachings of these Prophets and Messengers and if they find any mistake or error in them, then they have some case to look for alternative solutions. E. Basic Mistake to look for Truth in the Wrong Places: 15. But to start afresh without considering the info provided by Prophets, makes these Seekers of Truth on the wrong foot. And their mistake is deliberate and not due to error or confusion. 16. I have already provided mistakes of our called genius of Human Philosophers of our time, Malthus, Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, Charles Darwin and so many who started Free Sex, Women Freedom and other movements. 17. How much cost human society has to pay for their mistakes and errors and what should be the punishment given to them for suggesting some thing wrong as Truth? 18. It can be seen and it can be proven that in Each and Every case where our Human Seekers of Truth have gone against the clear teachings of Prophets and Messengers, it has been harmful for the human society and human civilization. 19. May be our future generations will curse all these illustrious persons whose name I have mentioned. F. Conclusion: 20. If some one is really sincere and is looking for Truth, the First Place for him or her is to study the Scriptures of religion. 21. If they do not get answer of their queries in one Scripture, they should look for in another scripture and they should ask learned people of these religions about their doubts. 22. If their doubts are still not answered (there is difference between doubts not answered and they do not like the answers!!), only then they are justified to use their mind and thinking power to Manufacture their own truth!! 23. What I see from Master Minds present on this thread is that, they are almost allergic to study any religious Scripture and even if they study it, it not for the purpose of taking guidance from it, but as to how to use it against itself!!

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Q. 55 Why Muslims hurt the feelings of Hindus in India? Ans. Now here is our :learned friend giving the rulings from the Bench on Islam and its practices. No doubt our Friend has acquired the position of Expert which persons like Yaudheya, Haji Kaji, Harminder, ITRE and others displayed. In reality Islam is the religion that has perfect balance of Rituals and faith believed into one!! And the thing about Islam which causes most pain to our Expert is that why Muslims are so sure in everything they write. These experts have spent their life in doubts and dis-belief , because whatever argument they think from their mind, a counter argument is also generated by the same mind..so that are moving in this infinite circle, standing at the same place after moving round and round in circles for their entire life. They have not tasted faith and that is why they feel strange when people declare their faith firmly and based on the Revelation from Quran and Authentic sayings of the prophet. How can they feel about a thing which they have never tasted? So the biggest achievement for a human according to these experts is Not to believe in any thing and continue search for the truth and end your life as a disbeliever and as a doubting Thomas. Can any one tell what would be the end and what do they deserve when they die? You make the guess!!

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Q.56. What are Muslim legacies in India? Ans. Islam and Muslims: What the other evidence says: I think if we go by the number of posts posted on this and other threads, the General Impression and General Consensus would be that Islam is a blood thirsty religion and only job of Muslims in past have been to kill and loot and force people of other people into the fold of Islam. (Why would they want every one to accept Islam is not understandable, because they would loose their Milking Cows when these people accept Islam?) And that Muslims persecute their women and treat them worse than animals and force them against their wills to remain inside the boundaries of their homes and cover their faces and bodies every time they go out of their houses. And they provide many proofs to justify these claims All this is fine, but there is another type of evidence to verify these claims, if a group of people (in fact whole nation) behaves as claimed above, what sort of civilization will they build up and what type of evidence would they leave for historians For Example, what would be their tastes in building their Palaces, Houses, their Places of Worship and their townships? What shall be their tastes in food and delicacies and the clothes they and their women wear? What type of language they shall speak and what type of poetry and thoughts shall be expressed in their literature? These are the tell tale signs about a civilization and using them we can know much about their outlook. If we find that a nation has much refined and developed taste in all these areas, it is illogical to say that they have so narrow view only on the religious side. They have to match each other and not contradict each other. In India we have Hindus and Muslims living side by side for many centuries and both have left their Ancient buildings, Forts, Temples and Literature and food and dress habits. Now let us make some unbiased comparison between these two groups of people and see what they reveal: A. Places of Worship:

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A place of worship speaks a lot about the inner condition of hearts of the people of that religion. When we visit ancient Hindu Temples, we find that they are very high from the outside and decorated with lots of images, but from inside they have very little space. The place where the main idol is placed is dark and entry is restricted and it reeks with the smell of sweets and other things that are offered to the deity. And many of the most famous Hindu temples are constructed on top of Mountain hills and on difficult to reach places and in remote areas (indicating that for religion you should leave the world) But when we visit any Ancient Muslim Mosque , we find it as a very airy place with an open praying area. There is a water tank in the middle with flowing water. To every one it gives the feeling of openness of hearts and thoughts. High Minarets and Dome generate an impression of high spirituality, No images of any kind help concentrate thoughts of the person praying there. And that is what we find in the attitude of Hindus and Muslims generally (even on this thread, Hindus behave as persons suffering with inferiority complex, they jump to hurling abuses, insults and swear words at the drop of hat, and this shows that my diagnosis is true) , and with very little broadness of hearts, Muslims are few in numbers on these threads , but they behave with much broader outlook and are more open hearted than Hindus. B. Places of Residences: Any one who has seen ancient houses of wealthy Muslims in Delhi and Lucknow and any other city where they ruled , and compared them with the houses of Wealthy Hindus of that time would find the same contrast here also. Muslim houses were more airy and there was provision for flowing water and garden in almost every house. The houses of Hindus on the other hand were lacking this behaviour and there was much more insistence on security and guarding of wealth.. And that is why we find Muslims are generally open fisted and do not hoard the wealth and are not too much money minded or miser.. and Hindus generally are hoarders of money, they are close fisted. And it can be still observed when Hindus are much better placed than Muslims in India and elsewhere.

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C. Dress and food Habits: It is not a boast, but any one can see the Muslim delicacies of food in Delhi, Lucknow, Hyderabad and other Muslim centers of power and compare them with what dishes our Hindu brothers eat. And the way Muslims used to eat their meals in open and jointly and the way Hindus took their meals individually and in closed Kitchens. The same goes for the refinement in dress, any one who has seen the intricate and delicate artworks on the dresses that Muslim men and women wear (of old times) and then make comparison with the dresses what Rich Hindu women of past wore, would find a similar contrast. Even today the marriage dresses of Muslim women have more artwork and tasteful decorations than what we see Hindus women do during weddings. The cost has nothing to do with artwork. D. Language and Literature: This is sensitive issue and people are very sensitive to their mother tongue, but to an unbiased researcher, the sweetness of Persian and Urdu language, the civilized way of address and etiquette is totally different from what we find in Sanskrit, Sankritized Hindi and other local languages. Poetry and lyrics of Urdu have much more grace and musical content and appeal to hearts than if we try to express the same thoughts in Hindi. Every one knows that more than 90 % of Filmi and popular songs are actually written in chaste Urdu than in Chaste Hindi (but why they are called as Hindi Songs, is another issue). And what is strange that Urdu developed most when British were ruling India and not Muslims!! The court language before British was Persian and not Urdu. E. Conclusion: My question is that, when a nation and a people have so much refined and developed taste in every thing else, how is it possible that they shall behave in so barbaric way when dealing with people of other faith? It does not make any sense, but to appreciate this type of reasoning, you should have an open mind and not a closed mind. The evidences from old Mosques and temples, old Muslim palaces and Hindu Havelis, Muslim artifacts and corresponding Hindu artifacts, Muslim and Hindu Dress code for men and women and Muslim and Hindu literature is all available in front of us.

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If the evidences do not support our claims, then we should change our claim and not the evidences. Our Hindu Brothers on this thread would like to overlook all these historical, architectural, literary and cultural evidences from Muslim past and keep on repeating Muslims only work in India was to kill as many Hindus as possible and force them to accept Islam All this points to our Hindu Brothers suffering with lots and lots of inferiority complex and / or they are afraid of Islam and its power and its truth.

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[QUOTE who="Arbitrageur"] Q.57 Hey, MUQ, what's your take on the Bodo Tribe/Muslim violence in your own country? Is this ethnic cleansing or just ancient tribal tradition? http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/10/us-... [/QUOTE] Ans. These are the little games that are played in India with every now and then. Just scores of Muslims are killed in Anti Muslim riots which hardly anyone in India or outside takes any notice of. Most of the world shuns such news as of no importance, Every now and then when the body count is more, some small items come out in world media. Like Gujarat riot of 2002 and Bombay riots of 1993 Etc. And now in the case of Bodo killings of Muslimswhen more than 75,000 peoples have fled from their homes to take shelter in near by citiessome thing filters out to world media. Compare that to the voice raised by Indian press and world press and Indian Govt. when 6 Sikhs were killed in USA. It was as if whole Indian community was at risk. Indian PM and Indian Parliament and every one in India raised their voices. What would have been their reactions had it been an attack on a Mosque in USA in which scores of Indian Muslims were killed. Would Indian Govt. take notice. Our Respected and Learned Prime Minister who spoke to Obama to safeguard lives of Indians in USA, made an impotent looking comment on the Bodo Violence in India and that is all. Thousands of muslims were killed in Burma and hardly anyone took any notice in the world. The cheapest blood today in world is that of Muslims, any one can kill any number of Muslims any where in the world and no questions would be asked. If they destroy as many trees, there would be protest by Green peace and who knows what but when Muslims are killed there is no protest, not even a whimper. It is strange that you took notice of Bodo problem in India, and I really appreciate it. But just forget it, one more lesson to teach these bloody Muslims in the worlds largest Democracy. When you add the world Democracy then you can commit no crime. Every thing is forgiven.

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[QUOTE who="Yaudheya"] Q. 58 All such violent rituals either at any Hindu temple or at Mecca-Medina , either on occasion of Hindu festival or Bakar eid like Muhammadan festival , are deplorable . Animal slaughtering can be called logical only for that areas where nature didn't provide much food resources such as Tibet , Arabian peninsula , Polar area etc.. And if science discovers the solution of human's food then it animal slaughtering should be banned but till that time we can do minimum that we must declare " bali " or " kurbani " as a religious hypocrisy . And yes , MUQ what is lesson in it for us ? [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Man made Philosophies: I usually criticize man made philosophies, when they are pitted against evidence from Scriptures . Because they are so unbalanced, so impractical and overlook so many points that it is strange to think that any right thinking and reasonable mind could suggest and support them. But these so called mental pigmies present them as Outstanding Jewels of Human minds that one even does not know to laugh or cry at their condition. One such gem has been presented on the issue of Animal Sacrifice by one such mental pigmy B. Animal Sacrifice, according to World scriptures: 01. First let us see the evidence from Major Scriptures or all religions . Scriptures of Hinduism (Vedas, Manu Smriti, Mahabharata etc) , Judaism, Christianity and Islam they all support animal sacrifice and consumption of animal flesh. 02. So from Scriptural evidence it is clear that there is nothing wrong either in animal sacrifice or eating animal food. 03. Except marginal religion like Jainism and Buddhism (a portion of Buddhism, because meat eating is so common in China, Japan, Korea etc who are Buddhist countries), all major world religious scriptures support Animal Sacrifice and eating of animal food. 04. That was proof from Religious Scriptures, to call it a religious hypocrisy, shows that our learned friend does not even know what the meaning of hypocrisy is.

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C. Eating of Animal Flesh according to Medical Info 05. Now comes the medical evidence, there is no way in which eating of animal food for a healthy human body is wrong from medical point of view.. Animal meat is rich in protein and essential Amino acids that are essential for human body. 06. And human body is able to digest the animal food without any problem, so according to Nature, animal food is not harmful for human body. D. Economic Considerations: 07. Now comes the economic considerations, the food of animals killed is not wasted, not only food, but its skin and every part of its body is used for humans. 07A. So many people get employment by raising these animals and they earn their livelihood by this. I know our Learned Friend would justify Bar Girls, Strip tease joints, Alcohol business , Gambling joints etc because they provide employment to so many thousands of people, but he will not use the same argument for thousands of people who get employment in the meat industry. E. Problem with old and economically unviable animals: 08. Then comes the environmental issues, if all animal killing for food is banned, what will happen to all these old sheep, cows, goats and water buffaloes? Who will look after them? 08A. Our Learned Friend will say that let state take care of it. When humans do not take care of their own aged parents, who will take care of so many old animals? 08 B. I suggest that every one who is against slaughter of animals for food should be given at least 10 old cows and buffaloes delivered to their homes to take care of them. F. Animal Sacrifice during festivals and rituals: 09. Now comes the question of sacrificing animals during festivals and rituals, this is the question which bothers so many people as to why so many innocent animals are sacrificed on specific dates. My response is as follows: a. When slaughter of animals by itself is justified, then there is no question of a particular day or time for it. b. The important point is that meat should not be wasted and it should be used by people. That is why Quran instructs Muslims to eat from the slaughtered animals and feed also the poor and destitute. c. If some one has misconception that Meat and Blood of slaughtered animals reaches to God and / or God loves the smell of meat and blood of Animals, Qurans says

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Neither their flesh, nor their blood reaches Allah, what reaches to Him are your piety and your good intentions 10. From time immemorial, animals are considered as a Property which human possess and one should donate from this property also as he donates from other wealth like Gold, Silver , and agriculture produce. (As regards that Animals are also property, I quote the following Couplet from Hindi Poet RASKHAN GO- DHAN GAJ- DHAN BAJ- DHAN AUR RATAN DHAN KHAN JAB AWEY SANTOSH DHAN SUB DHAN DURI SAMAN (i.e, Cows, Elephants, Gold, Silver , Diamonds all are wealth

But when one gets the Wealth of Satisfaction, all other wealth s are like dust) 11. But slaughtering animals does not mean that we should show cruelty to them and kill them by slow death or cruel way. That is why islam instructs slaughter by a sharp knife that cuts three main arteries in one movement and causes minimum pain to the animal. G. Conclusion: 12. These are my arguments, against this we have this rhetorical argument that according to me, killing of animals for food should not be allowed except for extreme climatic conditions. 13. These people are speaking from their immature mind and have no knowledge of nature and what is mercy and what is not.

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[QUOTE who="Truth"] Q. 59 01. Sir, what do you want to prove that all muslims are gentlemen and Hindus are root cause of all evils? 02. Who killed guru Arjundev? Who killed innocent Hindus and Sikhs in 1947? 03. What is the condition of minority Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan? 04. Who is responsible for 9/11 and who attacked Hotel Taj? 05. According to you humanity is not drained out from muslims then why it is so that most of the terrorists are muslims. Sir, you seem to me a very learned person. 06. So it is your moral responsibility to put true picture in-front of us. 07. I can not say that islam is bad, as I know that there have been many great muslims on this Earth. [/QUOTE] Ans. I thank you for calling me a learned person, many of your friends on the thread would hotly contest this claim!! You have asked many questions in your short post, I would answer them briefly 01. I NEVER said that ALL Muslims are gentlemen and all Hindus and Sikhs are evil. I said that in every society there are people who are good and who are evil. We should not bracket all people in one group and spread hate and hatred against them. What I write is in accordance with my above principle. 02. Who killed Arjundev? He was killed during his fight with the Govt. of Delhi. Who killed innocent Sikhs and Hindus in 1947? Do you know how many innocent Muslims lost their lives in 1947 , before 1947 and since 1947 in India? Who killed them? Hindus or Sikhs or Muslims? Let us not hide our side of criminals and point fingers only at other people. This is the attitude due to which no problem is solved in the world today. Because every country wants to define terror and terrorism in a way, in which his own actions and actions of its armed forces and police and its own foreign policy stay

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outside this definition while the same actions done by other nations should be called as Terror acts and terrorism. 03. I do not know what is the condition of Minority Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan. But I did not hear anywhere that Anti Hindu and Anti Sikh riots took place in that country with the same regularity as they happen in India. Individual actions by any single person are not ruled out, but no one sees a pattern there as we see in India after independence. If you have any information, please bring it out. I shall not defend Pakistan or Pakistani Govt. for taking part or condoning such violence. 04. Who did 9/11? It is still now known. So far we are unable to prove how those WTC towers fell to ground with a single strike by a Jet Airliners. No one can prove that scientifically even now. Who attacked Hotel Taj? The persons were all killed inside the Hotel and their identities should be known by this time? But what they did was their individual act and not the teachings of islam. But do you know who killed KARKARE? Ask this question and you will find very few people to answer it. Because 26/11 was used as a smokescreen to silence KARKARE, because he was about to reach the King pins of those who were behind all those Bomb Blasts in India. Hindus posing as Muslims!! 05. Why Most of Terrorists are Muslims? It is because of media, because they ONLY portrait Muslims as Terrorists and no one else. Those Maoists and Naxalites kill more Policemen and Police officers than Muslims, but no one remembers them when thinking of terrorist. In one operation alone, they killed 73 CRPF personnel, in another they killed 22 CRPF personnel, the News was there for one or two days and then they forgot all about it. Can you imagine what would have happened if Muslims had killed those CRPF people? Whole India would have been up in arms, Right From President downwards, every one would have asked for their blood to be avenged.

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This is how the media plays its role and people like you get brainwashed and ask simple questions like Every Muslim is not Terrorist, but every Terrorist is a Muslim!! 06. I have never called Osama as a role model, but I still say, that more than life like image was created by Media to portray him like a Super Criminal and in the end it was shown that he was no Super Criminal, but an ordinary human afraid for his life. Now after him, they are looking for another Super Criminal to fit in his boots. It seems now that Haqqani is being groomed for that role. Now you will hear in Media so many things about Haqqani and his Terrorist organization. Even India would request UNO that he be captured and India should be spared by his Terrorist activities!! Thanks for calling be a biased person, some one has to stay on middle path and stand for truth and justice in this bigoted world!! 07. And when did I try to paint ALL Hindus in bad light, in fact I have posted so many views from Non Biased Hindus on Islam and Muslims that many of our Hardliner Hindus got incensed. I have said that majority of Hindus in India are peaceful and peace loving. They have no bias against Islam and Muslims and have lived for centuries side by side with them And then there are a small majority of Hindus, whose ONLY aim in life is to spread hate and hatred against Muslims. They are a very small minority in India and they are spearheaded by RSS and Its Sister concerns, the political wing of RSS is known as BJP, and it is they that appose anything and every thing which is done in India to improve their lot. Most of Anti Muslim and Anti Islamic people on this thread have soft corners for RSS and BJP. They are trouble maker Hindus and if I criticise Hindus, I criticise these Hindus and not all Hindus.

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[QUOTE who="YM"] Q 60. Dear Brother Moiz, Frankly speaking I think I do know what is the correct path I too have have listened to the Ahmed Deedat, Dr Israr, Dr Naik. There are many things that Muslims in the subcontinent practice in the name of religion but are actually unislamic/Shirk. As for Muslim rulers of India the trouble is in Pakistan all of them are hailed as ghazis and they've built their reputation in the same mould as pirs, khalifahs etc. One should take a step to remind Muslims of Pakistan that these invaders and their deeds got nothing to do with Islamic principles they were just imperialists who were Muslims they don't have any special authority or position on Islam. I have seen and observed Yaudheya very well he is NOT willing to accept the follies on the part of Congress which played a part in Partition. [/QUOTE] Ans. Wailakum Assalam Brother Yaseen I thank you for your honest post and this is not your condition but the condition of most young Muslims who only get secular education but none or very little of religious education. They are Muslims as their parents were, if their parents belonged to a particular sect of Muslims, they also follow the same sect without thinking and without analyzing the truth. In which way they are different from Hindus, Jews and Christians who also blindly follow the religions of their parents? Why would Allah punish these Jews, Christians and Hindus etc for following a false religion while at the same time send every Muslim to Paradise, without asking was he on the right path? The basic problem with people like you is that you accept everyones claim on face value. In your eyes, Shias, Sunnis, Qadiyanis, and everyone are just same, you do not know which one of them is True Representative of Islam. This is a very dangerous situation and I asked you to first find out are you on right course, before discussing with these people on these threads about Muslim rulers and what they did.

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Now I present you some pointers which will help you out from your present condition of confusions: A. Islam is against every type of Sects! If you read Quran and Hadith, you will find that they are strictly against Muslims getting divided into sects and denominations and start fighting with each other. So every one and anyone which asks Muslims to join his sect and denomination is doing a very Un Islamic act. B. Allah and His Messenger have only chosen Islam ad Muslim as our names and nothing else: In Quran and Hadith we do not find any other word but Islam, Muslim and Momins. So anyone who calls himself by another name is doing an un Islamic thing. C. Sect is a thing which divides its followers from others: Hanafi, Shafei, Hanbali, Maliki, Deobandi, are therefore non sects, because no one calls those who follow other school of jurisprudence as Non Muslim or Kafir, So your understanding of definition of sect itself is not correct. So the ONLY Sect which is on "correct path" is the one who does not believe or follows any of these "Sects". Sects are the one's which claim that only they are on correct path and anyone or every one who does not follow the teaching of their sects are Non Muslims, Kafirs etc. And Qadiaynis are no sect of Muslims, they are Non Muslims as declared by all Muslim religious scholars. So please do not mention Qadiayanis, and Bhahais as Sects of Muslims. [QUOTE who="Truth"] Q61. 01. I don't want to criticize Mohammad or Islam. You muslims are free to follow him. 02. But why do want everyone to convert to islam? 03. You say that it is written in Quran that Mohammad was the last prophet, but we have not read this anywhere in Geeta or Bible. 04. You claim that only you muslims have got true message of god through Quran. Even a Christian or a Hindu can claim the same.

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05. According to you only Mohammad was the real prophet. What about Krishna and Jesus? Was they ordinary people( Tom, Dick or Harry)? 06. You must have read Gita and Bible. Haven't they gave us message of humanity, love and forgiveness. Was Krishna not propagator of 'karmyoga'? Have they said us to worship Satan? 07. Are Sanatan Dharma and Christianity 'mini religions'? It is good to follow your religion but criticizing other religions is intolerance. [/QUOTE] Ans. Again you have asked so many questions in one post, each of them requires a very long answer, It would be best if you only ask one question at a time. I will only provide short answers to these questions. A. Do not want to criticize Islam or Prophet: This is a very good tract, please stick to it. B. Why we want every one to convert to Islam? There are many reasons, 01. we are not selfish people, we want to share the message of Truth with every one, so they also get all the benefits of next life and save themselves from hell fire. 02. Our prophet was the last prophet and after him there shall be no more prophet. Now the responsibility of delivering the message of Islam to humanity is on Muslims. If they do not do their work, they will be answerable to God in the hereafter. 03. We do not force our religion on others, we only deliver the message and leave the choice to these people. C. Gita and Bible do not say that Mohammad was the last prophet: 04. Gita is not the ONLY book of Hindu Scripture and it does not mention every thing about Hinduism. 05. The REAL book of Hindu Scripture is Vedas and in Vedas and Puranas there is mention of our prophet as NARASHANSA and as KALIKI Avtar. 06. In Bible there is mention of our prophesy at many places. Moses tells about him in Deut 18:18. Jesus speaks about him as "Comforter" mentioned in John's Gospel Ch 14-16.

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07. Our prophet is mentioned in most reveled books. D. Were Jesus and Krishna were Ordinary Persons? 07. I never said they were "ordinary people"? Jesus was a Righteous Prophet of God, He was born without any human father and he showed many miracles. He was lifted up bodily into heavens and shall come back to earth before End of Time. 08. About Krishna I cannot say much, because Hindus themselves are confused as to what he really was. If he is claimed to be a God in human form then we reject any such idea. If he was a prophet, then let Hindus make that claim and then we will look into it. But we hold our tongue and do not say any bad thing about him and other religious personalities of Hindus. E. Have I read Gita and Bible: 09. I have read Bible from cover to cover. About Gita I have seen its English Translation. But Gita is not the root book of Hinduism, The real authority of Hinduism are the Vedas and Hindus must study and Quote from Vedas and not "secondary books" like Gita, F. Is Santan Dharma or Christianity Mini Religions? 10. I never said that they were "Mini religions". I call them as Major World religions that were there before Islam. 11. I think you are confused, I used the word "Mini religion" for pygmies like harminder and our Human Philosophers who want to pass off their own theories as Truth. I am careful of what I write. Allah Knows Best

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Q.62 Who waived Pakistani Flags during India Pak cricket match? Ans. Since there was no reply, I post this article once again, it is strange Haji Kaji, ITRE, Yaudheya and none from their group saw it fit to comment on the Heroic deed done by these cowards- MUQ Is it not the Lowest level to which these Patriots can fall? I am certain that MOST of the Blasts in India were the handiworks of these people. But they escape because of biased investigation- MUQ http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2790960.ece?homepage=true Pakistani flag hoisting was a Hindutva plot to foment strife, police say

With the arrest of another Hindutva activist on Tuesday in connection with the hoisting of a Pakistani flag in front of the Tahsildar office at Sindagi in Karnataka on January 1, the number of persons held by the police for what they believe was a plot to foment communal strife has increased to seven.

The arrested are members of Sri Ram Sene, a pro-Hindutva outfit. According to the police, they allegedly hoisted the Pakistani flag and then blamed it on the town's Muslim community. The accused were shifted to the Bellary district prison on Sunday morning as other inmates of the Bijapur district jail allegedly attacked them for being involved in anti-national activities.

Rakesh Math, the prime accused, was seriously injured in the fracas, and the remaining sustained minor injuries.

Meanwhile, members of the district unit of Sri Ram Sene have said the accused do not belong to their outfit but are members of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).

At a press conference here, they released several pictures to prove their point, alleging that the police had been pressured not to drag the name of the RSS into the issue.

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Well-placed police sources, however, told The Hindu that the entire incident was carried out at the behest of an elected representative of the BJP, whose political agenda was to foment communal disturbances in the district. The sources added that the elected representative had instructed his supporters to destroy all evidence of his involvement, including photographs of the protesters and the banners of the organisation.

The Pakistani flag was hoisted in the early hours of January 1. Later in the morning, the accused, led by Rakesh Math, organised a protest in front of the Tahsildar's office, alleging that the Muslim community was behind the incident. The protesters blocked the road and hurled stones at buses before the police enforced order.

The police then formed a special team to investigate the matter.

It concluded that the Sri Ram Sene activists who organised the protests were behind the incident. They arrested the six ringleaders on January 3 under various sections of the Indian Penal Code for sedition and inciting communal disturbance.

As a precautionary measure, the district administration has banned rallies, protests and dharnas in connection with the issue.

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[QUOTE who="NT"] Q.63. To every Indian it is known that surname plays a very important role in ascertaining the background of a person. Anyone with a surname of Kumar or Kumari is a kind of certificate that this person is of lower strata and is best to be ignored if you want peace. The plight for the likes Kumar, kumari are futile. please give us some new names from Hindu Pakistanis with proper surname. [/QUOTE] Ans. I think that your generalization that every Indian Hindu name that has Kumar or Kumari in it is of lower strata is not correct. Kumar and Kumari are very popular surnames in India and have no connection whatsoever with the social status of the person. In real meaning Kumar means a boy who is not yet married and Kumari means a girl who is a maiden. But the surnames became popular with passage of time and people started using it as part of their names. If you need more info ask Harminder and Haji Kaji and Yaudheya and ITRE and their gang members. They would explain to you in more detail.

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[QUOTE who="islam the real evil"]<quoted text> Q.64. muq u are not giving ur comments. how much do u agree with maulana azad???? [/QUOTE] Ans. I am on this thread for so many years, still you ask question, how much I agree with Maulana Azad!! Did you know that Maulana Azad was Congress President for 6 consecutive years from 1940 to 1946, the "most crucial" period as for as Indian Freedom movement and its partition is considered. Now do you think he was made congress president to "appease Muslims" or only as a "show piece" to counter M.A. Jinnah or did he really had the capabilities for the job? He says that if he was President during 1947 (When Nehru was made Congress President), he would not agree to the partition of country. Nehru, Patel and Gandhi are equally to blame for the partition of country along with M.A. Jinnah and Muslim league. But in Indian media and in Indian history (as being told to us thru the "main stream" media) is to ONLY blame Jinnah and Muslim league and "forget" the role played by Nehru, Patel, Gandhi and other Hardliner Hindus that infiltrated Congress party at that time. If Hindus showed any broadmindedness during that period, it is most likely that India would not have been divided. That is my view and I stick to it. As a majority community they should have shown more tolerance and broadmindedness than Jinnah and Muslim league. And why during that time, we still see the same narrow mindedness and inferiority complex from Hindus regarding Islam and Muslims, when Muslims have been sidelined and made ineffective from almost every field that is of importance in India. Just scan the posts of Hindus on this thread and see how much inferiority complex they have.

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Q.65 Why people use abusive languages on this thread? Ans. I am sure anyone with sensitive mind cannot tolerate the fee flow of abuses and insults that are freely flowing on this thread. There are both Muslims and Non Muslims engaged in this exchange of obscenities and no one knows who started it first. But it has to be stopped if we want to maintain the decorum of this thread. Since these people use Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi language in these exchanges many people do not understand what is being said. I want to restrain my Muslim brothers, that such type of abuses and insults are not going to help them in any way, neither on this world and nor in the hereafter. For a Muslim, the best example is from the life of our Prophet, may peace be on him. Every one knows that non believers of Makkah used every type of insults and taunts on him, while he was propagating his message. He was called a liar, imposter, mad man, poet, forger, magician and every other type of names, but what he did? He never engaged in answering those people in the same language. Instead he went on with his mission and the world saw that within a few years, all those who ridiculed him were under his feet, some of them got killed in the battlefield and most of them were looking with downcast eyes, while prophet had conquered Makkah, saying You were a Good Brother and a Compassionate person I want to remind my Muslim brothers on this thread that they should keep in mind the methods which our prophet used and let these abuse mongers do what they are doing. Quran and our prophet told us the best ways to deal with such people, I would like to share a few with my Muslim brothers. A. Can one Curse his own Father and Mother? Once prophet said, that He is a very bad man who curse his own father and his own mother The companions were surprised, and said O Messenger of Allah, which man will curse his own father and his own mother? It is like this replied the prophet If he curses some one elses father and mother, he will in turn curse his father and mother, so he was responsible for some one cursing his father and mother B. We should not insult and curse gods and religious personalities of other religion:

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Quran says Do not revile those whom they call upon beside Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus we have made alluring to each people its own doings (6:108). It is very natural that if one insults gods and religious personalities of people of other religion, they will do the same thing to Allah and His Messenger. C. Silence is the Best Policy: When we see that the other party is not stopping in his insults and abuses, the best way is to maintain a discreet silence and never make a tit for tat response. You cannot fight evil with evil or fire with fire. Evil is repelled with Goodness and Fire is quenched with water. D. Our Prophets status is much higher than it would be affected with the insults of these people. Muslims should always remember that personality of our prophet is much above than it would be lowered by the insults and filth and dirt which these people hurl at him. Most of them will recoil on their own faces. Admirers of our prophet include the most educated, civilized and cultured people of this world. Many Scientists, Engineers, Doctors, Philosophers, Politicians and Leaders acknowledge his greatness. So we should never assume that these people will lower the status of our prophet in any way. Therefore I request my Muslim Brothers that please do not engage in these exchanges of abuses and filthy and dirty phrases. They will not give them any good in this world or in the next. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Yaudheya"] Q.66. Why should we believe on this possibility that Muhammad may be a prophet or a final prophet ? Why should we not believe on Lord Krishna's promise that He will come to reestablish the ' Dharm '? If you believe that Muhammad was a prophet , it's o.k. but why do you not want to live us with our faith ? Why your meal doesn't digest without attack on our faith ?[ It has become identity of Mohammedans . Proof ? wait IMI , fake steady etc. will start soon with their dirty vulgar language ] Why do you demand to us that we should believe in Muhammad instead Krishna ? [/QUOTE] Ans. You have posed a "very interesting" question and I hope that you will have patience to listen to my arguments, on "why one should believe in Prophet Mohammad and not Lord Krishna". 01. First of all, I do not want to say any thing bad about Lord Krishna. My criticism is only about what we are told about his personality and his teachings. 02. Was Lord Krishna a Historical Personality? : No one can say for sure. What were his times, where he lived and what he actually did, no one knows for sure. People have just named some cities and villages and "think" that Lord Krishna was born here and lived there. Who were contemporaries of Lord Krishna, and how many recorded their testimonies about him, no one knows. There is "only one book" in which we find his story. And that is not enough unless we are sure that it is an authentic book. 03. How the message of Gita reached us?: It is said that this is a discourse which Lord Krishna gave to Arjun on the battlefield. How come it was recorded "verbatim" by some one who was not present there? There is no chain of narrators who can say that Lord Krishna spoke these words. Unless there is authentic proof that these are really the words of Lord Krishna we cannot attribute it to him. 04. Does God takes Human Shape and Form?: The concept of God taking human shape is illogical and unreasonable, It is against the teachings of Vedas, which says God has no form and shape. O4A: Avatar, what does it means?

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Most Hindus have "misunderstood" the real meaning of word "avatar". It does not necessarily mean, God taking human form, it might also mean God "sending down" some one, which is very close to the concept of prophet hood. 04B. Logical fallacies of God taking "Human Form and Human attributes": There are so many "logical impossibilities" in God taking Human Form; I list some of these a. How can an Infinite one become a Finite? b. How can an Immortal become a Mortal? c. How come one who has no Figure, No Photo, No statue (as per Vedas) appear to us in a human form and shape for every one to worship God in that Human Form? d. How come an 'All knowing God" having full knowledge of Past, Present and Future becomes a "Forgetful man"? Was is a "drama" which we saw in human life or God really gave up some of His Qualities? e. How come one without any need of food and drink, gets "need" to feed himself, quench his thirst and have call of nature? f. And who was running the Universe when God was on this Earth "playing" the part of Human? I do not know if we are Giving Respect to God or lowering His status by bringing Him down to human level. 04C. Can God be a Role Model for Humans?: And how can God become a "Role Model" for humans? Humans can say that it is "impossible" to live like a "perfect human" because "God can live like a man, but not a man" That is why I said, that the idea of God taking human form, creates more problems than it solves. 05. Concept of Prophethood is logical and well established: The concept that God selects one of the humans as His Prophet and Messenger and gives him the guidance and prophet transmits that guidance to his people and acts as Role Model for his people, is both reasonable and logical. There are no problems in this concept and so many prophets have come into the world before our prophet.

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Therefore it is much safer, logical and reasonable for every one in India to believe in the Last and Final prophet and take him as a guide, than to believe in some one "about whom they know very little". PS: I gave you reply in short. I do not know, if you have capacity and capability to hold a long and civilized discussion on these points, or better take one point at a time. [QUOTE who="Jai"] Q.67 01. MUQ ,who told you that god sends his revelation through a person to others. 02. What is the guarantee that god passed his message through Muhammad only. Where are angels where are they hiding. 03. As far as idols case is concerned we don't worship it, we use it so that our mind doesn't deviates. Who has seen god by the way. 04. Persons like ram are worshipped because of their qualities they looked birth approx. 5500 years ago and are part of glorious 7500+ Indian civilization. 05. How can Muhammad be compared to ram he is just one pir may be equal to sai baba. How can one compare nomadic desert culture to that with another civilization. 06. If muha was really a messenger then why are Arabs so backwards , there is absolutely no peace in that region. NO [/QUOTE] Ans. You have posed so many questions in a single post, I prefer you ask one question at a time, so we can discuss it in detail. I will give short answers to each of your question. Try to read them and understand it, because you seem to me under some "strong emotional trauma". The last sentence of your post shows it. Control your emotions, that is my advise to you brother Jai. 01. It is God Himself who testifies in Quran and in all previous scriptures that came to earlier prophets, This is God' way to send His guidance to human living on this earth. And our prophet was not the ONLY prophet that came into world. Quran gives names of at least 25 such prophets (knows to Jews and Christians by name), our prophet was only the Last and Final in that honorable chain.

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02. The guarantee that Quran came from God and no one else is provided in Quran itself. It asks that if people are in doubt about its divine origin, let them also bring a book like Quran, or even one chapter like it. No one is able to do it in past 1400 years. It is not the "defect" of angels that we cannot see them, it is the "defect of our eyes" that we cannot see them. Our eyes can only see "material objects" and angels of God are not made from material, so we cannot see them in this physical world. (prophets of God can see them). 03. No Idol worship does not concentrate your thoughts on God, you thoughts are only concentrated on the figure you see before your eyes. Just read the Book SATYARTH PRAKASH from Swami Dayananda Saraswati on the ill effects of Idol Worship. 04. You should not worship Ram for having those qualities, you should try to attain those qualities!! Try to follow his example and worship the One who Created Ram. 05. How can one Compare Ram with our prophet? Just look at their achievements? We know so little about Ram, that no one can call him even a historical property. All photos and images that you people have of him are fictitious and are just like Idols what you make of God. Then what did Ram achieve in his life time? Did he introduced any changes in Indian religions and in Indian society? Compared to Ram, our prophet transformed the Entire Arabian society from Paganism to Monotheism. The whole life of our prophet is open to us, to provide guidance in every walk of life. To compare our prophet with some "con man" like Sai Baba shows that you have no knowledge of religion and standards by which human greatness can be measured. You need to study more on this subject. 06. Why Arabs are so backward these days? I say that is because they "do not follow" the example of Our Prophet!! You do not know what was the condition of Arabs before Islam and how come in the very short time they ruled the Whole of the world and became teachers of the world for many centuries!! Within 100 years of prophets death, Arabia was shining from Spain to India!! 07. The last part of your post is just an emotional outburst, which shows you have very little control on your emotions.

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[QUOTE who="Yaudheya"] Q,68 04. Thank you , if you do not tell us we would not have gained this knowledge ? There is no authority to explain Hinduism because if we accept this we will have to separate Aajivak , Lingayat etc. from Hinduism . .. 05. Do you know the meaning of NARANSHASI [ Soch samajh kar bolna , Sanskrut ka mamla hai ] and from which time Puran have gained greater place then GEETA . Muhammada and PURAN'S prophecy -- Only Bhavishya Puran describes Muhammad as MAHAMAD of ARABIA G. If Allah knows best then .. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Thank you for your post. This is a public thread and there are people with different level of knowledge and educational background. The thing which seems trivial to you might not be known to many people even many Hindus on the thread. And I see the type of knowledge you people display against Islam and Muslims, showing that you people lack even the basic knowledge about Islam, Quran and our prophet. What I wrote about Gita is true. It is not a primary scripture of Hinduism. Some people call it is Nectar of Vedas, It condenses the teaching of Vedas in one short book etc. It gained so much importance in our recent time, because it supports the philosophy of AWAGAMAN and God taking human form which are Current in Hindus of our times. But that was not the situation in ancient and Vedic times, no one believed in God taking human form and no one believed in AWAGAMAN also. These two are Human Philosophies superimposed on Original Hindu teachings. 02. There is always a problem when we try to decipher any prophesy from books written in another language on a person coming from another nation. The prophesies are made in the language of that nation and it uses the names and qualities which are understood by those people. So the common people think that person shall come from their own nation.

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Considering that prophesies about NARASHANSA & KALIKI were written many centuries ago in Sanskrit, it is not easy to decipher them and verify it on Our Prophet coming from Arabia. There could be arguments and counter arguments and we are not dogmatic on our findings. What is clear is that our Prophet satisfies most of the Key features about these persons mentioned in Hindu Scriptures. Hindus are still waiting for these people to appear, which shall NEVER happen !! They have missed the bus, looking for it, while it passed by them!! 03. Allah knows best is a phrase of humility which Muslims use to show that their knowledge is not perfect and fool proof. If they say some thing from their own minds which is not 100 % backed by scriptures, then they add this phrase, in case they made some mistake or error. Islam teaches us these manners, which even the most learned people from other faith lack. They are boastful and dogmatic in what they say or write, never owning up their mistakes. A Muslim is not arrogant and / or overbearing. Neither is he in market for endless debates / arguments. We should deliver our message, answer some genuine doubts and then leave the person to think about it.

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[QUOTE who="Curious"] Q.69. Not that there is much difference between bearded turbaned Muslims and Sikhs so I guess that hygiene standards are also different in Sikhs since they are from India? Another question I want to ask you if anywhere in Quran, the reference of Hindus is mentioned and if yes then which page shall I refer to. I believe that Jesus is mentioned and also Moses and Abraham. Your input on this issue will be highly appreciated. [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Personal Hygiene: Note: This post has nothing to do with religion and it only compares the hygiene in Sikhs and Muslims keeping beards and hairs of the body. Sikh Way: a. They do not shave off any hair from the male body. Including armpits and under navel. b. Since the beard keeps on growing and it becomes difficult to do the daily work, so they use glue and gel and stick it on their face and tie it with a band. c. The hairs on the head keep on growing and can reach upto knee length or lower and it is extremely difficult to do the works, so they gather all of them and use a turban to hide it from public view. d. If a Sikh open his hairs on head and beard, it would be a very strange sight. e. The practice is against normal hygiene and Sikhs are there fore most unhygienic people on the face of earth. f. Not shaving of armpit hairs and under navel hairs is really very disgusting to any one who takes a look at them. Muslim way: a. Muslims are advised to regularly remove armpit hairs and under navel hairs, so their body is very clean. b. Muslims are encouraged to grow beard, but it should be moderate and should be trimmed and taken care of. Muslims wash their full face at least 15 times in 24 hours (5 daily prayers and each time they wash their faces including beard at least 3 times). c. There is no hard and fast rule on how to grow hairs on head. But they should be trimmed once they reach below ear lobe.

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d. Muslims are advised to take bath at least once every week (for Friday prayers) and after sexual intercourse and daily bath is very much encouraged. e. A Muslim therefore has a clean body and it is well washed and the hairs and beard are well taken care of. The moustaches are trimmed short, so that they do not come in contact with food and drinks going inside bodies. f. There is hardly any one who can find fault with Muslims keeping sound personal hygiene. Comments are welcomed, but they should not be rhetoric or from Malice and hate related. I did not mean any disrespect to Sikh religion, I just commented on the hygienic part of their practices. B. Hindus Mentioned in Quran: No there is no direct mention of the world Hindu in Quran, and there is no direct reference to India in Quran. But in Prophetic sayings we do find reference to India. Some Muslim Scholars think that Noah might be the prophet which lived in India, but this is not a universal view amongst Muslims. Some people also think that term ZUBUR UL AWWALEEN (Past Books) might refer to Vedas of Hindus, but again there is no universal agreement on this from Muslim Scholars. But according to Quran as a general principle, no nation was there in which Prophets of God did not come, preaching in their own language. So definitely some prophets did came to India and they did brought divine books. But Hindus in their zeal of Idol Worship, lost their prophet name or made them into gods and made their idols and started worshipping the prophets, and not the God which sent those prophet. This is what I know and what I think and Allah Knows the best.

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Q.70. Sikhs , how they fared in India? Ans. Sikhs in India (Varying Scenario) : A. Early Sikhism: 01. No one knows how exactly the Sikh religion started. Because Guru Nanak by any standard did not start a new religion. At best it was a sort of subset of Sufi and BHAKTI movement that was going around at that time. After death of Guru Nanak, his followers started a new religion in his name (same thing which we saw in the case of Sai Baba, some one from Puttupurthy used Sai Baba of SHIRDI as a demi-god and used his name to stake claim to his god head). 02. But soon this group organized themselves into a militant group and picked up fight with the Mughal Empire of that time. It was a political struggle and had nothing to do with religion. It had sympathies of local Hindu population or not is debatable. The fight against the central rule was carried out using gorilla techniques, which are still to be seen in the many separatist movements that we see in India and elsewhere. 03. When it gained religious color is not clear, because Mughal Emperors did not fight Sikhs because they were following a separate religion, because India from the very beginning had Hindus in majority and there were so many sects and factions of Hindus that Sikhs being one more did not make much difference. 04. Sikhs got a separate religious identity only when their Tenth Guru gave them distinct dress code and rituals and religious directions to keep their identity. But at no stage Sikhism was a complete religion by itself. 04A It lacked jurisprudence and that is why It borrowed from Hinduism and islam whenever there was any need. Majority of Hindus considered Sikhs as one sub sect of Hindus, and views them as Fighting arms of Hindus against Muslims. B. Sikh Power at its peak: 05. The peak of Sikh powers came when British came to India, and Mughal Empire was finished, during the freedom war of 1857, Sikhs by and large supported British Empire and after the end of war, British gave them many concessions. 06. In their haydays, with Lahore at their Capital, The state of Punjab started just after Delhi and extended upto Kashmir. It was a very big province of India and Sikhs were ruling over all that area, and their glory was at their peak. 07. Some how or the other Sikhs had that Anti Islam and Anti Muslim bias in their blood veins. They never realized that their initial struggle against Mughal Empire was not a religious struggle but a political struggle.

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07A. They did not realize that their teachings of Monotheism and their rejection of all sort of Idol worship were closer to islam than Hinduism. The effect of Sufi teachings on Sikhism and their Guru Granth Sahib is still evident for every one to see. But they forgot all that and they remained an enemy of Islam and Muslims. C. Sikhs and Partition of India 08. It was in this background that demand for Pakistan and bifurcation of Border states raised its voice during 1930 s and 1940 s. It is not for me to go into details of the Pakistani movement, but as per the demand the State of Punjab was to be divided into two parts, the Western part was to go into Pakistan and Eastern part was to remain with India. 09. This was a very critical time for Sikhs to decide their future. It is on records that MA Jinnah asked Sikhs to demand their own independence from India, and in return they will be given a Special status in Pakistan. They would get their self rule in the areas which they control. 09A. It was a very good offer, the one which would have benefited them in the long run, there were many Sikh Leaders who wanted to take that option but somehow or the other, majority of Sikh Leaders decided to reject it and remain with India and their Hindu Brothers, rather than take largesse from Muslims and Pakistan. 10. That would have been a debatable decision, but no one can take exception to it. But what happened next was not which any civilized society should have been proud of. During the partition when large numbers of Muslim refugees had to migrate from India to Pakistan and had to cross the entire state of Sikh controlled Punjab . It was here that armed gangs of Sikhs with swords and guns and knives attacked the trains and caravans of Muslims fleeing India.. 10A. It is was in the state of Punjab that close to 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 innocent men and women and children lost their lives. No one can describe the scenes on those trains, only people who have seen it can describe it. (There is no exaggeration, when we see how Crowds reacted during recent Gujarat riots, one can foresee the similar scene on a larger scale being played during the partition riots). D. Sikhs after Independence: 11. During partition riots, Sikhs did what they did, thinking that they have taught Muslims a lesson, and taken revenge for what Mughal Emperors did to themat the back of their minds they might be thinking of some rewards from their Hindu Brothers for their contribution to the Safety of their Nation. But they were due for a strange surprise. The Think Tanks of Hindus knew the exact place where Sikhs were to be placed in Independent India.

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12. As mentioned that Punjab was one of the big provinces of India, it started from Delhi and extended right upto Kashmir (Kashmir was also once part of Sikh Empire but was sold to some Dogra Hindu King for a paltry sum, some decades back). During partition, one half of Punjab was merged with Pakistan. But still it was a big province. Sikhs were in large numbers in Military and Indian Hockey team was mainly composed of Sikhs. They controlled the transport business etc and were very well placed economically 13. Right after Independence Sikhs started asking for their rights, they wanted a land where Punjabi should be official language the same demands were being raised from other states as well. So the action of restructuring states started. In one such exercise, new state of Himachal Pradesh was created removing hilly areas from Punjab and merging it with the new state. The size of Punjab was reduced.!! 14. When the demands of Sikhs for Punjabi language persisted, the Hindi speaking people of Punjab demanded that they be separated from Punjab. So in 1967, the state of Punjab was further divided into two parts, one called Punjab with Punjabi as official language and another as Haryana with Hindi as its official language. The demands of Sikhs were met, but the size of Punjab was cut to half!! Less than 1/5th of the Original Punjab!! This is what Sikhs got in Independent India for being loyal to Hindus during partition!! 15. Not only that, the city of Chandigarh which Sikhs wanted as their capital was shared between Punjab and Haryana!! A separate struggle was needed to decide the fate of that city. Even after 55 years the city is still shared between Punjab and Haryana!! 16. Then slowly and slowly, Sikhs domination in Indian Military was diluted, the Sikh Regiment was Sikh only in name, its structure was changed permanently.

E. Sikhs and Khalistan Movement: 17. When the movement for Khalistan (independent nation for Sikhs) started in 1970 s and 1980 s, then another face of Hindu Big brothers was seen. The Indian army attacked Sikhs Holiest shrine of Golden Temple and killed thousands of Sikhs, and then they entered there again to show the Sikhs the real status of their Golden Temple then during 1984 Anti Sikh riots, the True position of Sikhs was shown to them. There was not a shop belonging to any Sikh even in the remotest village of North India which was left unattacked. 18. Only shops of Sikhs that were safe from Vandalism were those that were in Muslim majority locations!! Muslims could have also settled their scores with Sikhs if they wantedbut Islam does not teach that you harm innocent people. Muslims did not take any part in these Anti Sikh riots and showed that whatever Sikhs did to them during partition riots has not drained out humanity from Muslims.

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19. So this is a short history of Sikhs and their anti Islamic tirade and what they got in Independent India. They Rule a small state of Punjab, with Punjabi as language, their Capital is shared with Haryana, their presence in Army is marginal, Indian Hockey team has only two or three Sikhs, and Transport business is slowly slipping from their hands. There is no monopoly of Sikh Drivers on Indian highways. Punjabi which was almost Elites language of conversation in Delhi in 1960 s a 1970 s went on the sidelines after Anti Sikh riots of 1984. No one now speaks Punjabi unless he is a Sikh!! 20 To add salt to injury, Sikhs were bracketed with Hindus in the Hindu Marriage Act and other Personal Laws enacted for Hindus during 1950 s, The Sikh demand to consider them separate from Hindus is still being considered by Indian Govt.!! Welcome to Free and Independent India, where everyone is equal and there is no discrimination!! Perhaps Sikhs had not studied the CHANAKYA NITI, they act before they think, as popular sayings go. 21. The Punjabi language however has become a first language for Pop songs and pop music, and bravery of Sikh boys and girls are to be appreciated by the dances and moves which they make in these songs and dances!!

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Q.71 Rapists should be Hanged in Public? Ans. TALIBANI Punishment in Secular Democratic India? Seems strange, but if any one has been observing, the entire Electronic Media in India for past three days is reverberating with demands and demonstrations from every part of India. People from all walks of life, from North to South, from East to West are demanding one thing Rapists for Gang Rape of Delhi Medico must be hanged. Is it not strange that most of these people were criticizing these TALIBANI style punishments a short while ago. How come a single case of Gang Rape has changed their opinion upside down? Let there be no misunderstanding here, I have full sympathy with the victim and also demand death punishment for the killers, but I feel that most of these demonstrations are emotional and will not produce any long lasting effect. We have to have more that death punishment for rapist" to solve this problem of rapes and gang rapes. It was the same India where a century ago, the cases of rapes and gang rapes were extremely rare. There was so much pressure from the society and the punishment was so swift and quick that the criminal had no means to escape. But most of the rules have been diluted over past several decades, what we are observing is the logical results of what we sowed over the years. Let me point out some factors: 01. Rapes and Gang rapes are not Some thing unheard of in India: This is neither the First case of rape nor of gang rape in India. If some one reads the daily Newspapers, we see every few days such cases being reported from some parts of India. May be the brutality and the manner in which this crime was committed provoked so much reaction. No one cares as to what happened to those earlier victims and those criminals in these earlier cases of rape. 01A. Maximum Punishment in Law Books:

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The Maximum Punishment in Law books for such crimes is Life Imprisonment. And does any one know what is Life Imprisonment? It is seven and a half years in Jail. And after serving this sentence, the victims would be free to go and repeat similar case. 02. Alcohol, no one said anything about it!! It is the Alcohol. No one CAN commit such heinous crimes until he be under the influence of Alcohol. And no media channel and no reporter talked about the effect of Alcohol in these crimes. How can they, when one of the biggest liquor Baron is owner of an IPL franchise and owner of an Airline and own one F-1 team? How can some one speak against use of Alcohol and crimes? 03. Free Mixing of sexes: These daily dance and music parties and free mixing of boys and girls and tight and revealing dresses and roaming of girls and their boy friends in late night after movie shows. All this adds to the fuel in the fire. 04. The Films and Items songs and dances: The dance items in Indian films are getting vulgar and vulgar by each passing days. I do not know what effects they make on criminal minds and children who watch them and then try to emulate it. The murders, crimes and extra cruelty which we see on films do program some minds to become insensitive towards pains and hurts of other people. 05. The marriage is being made more difficult : The laws of divorces and court interference into what was a family matter not long ago has created problems. One example of this is misuse of article 498A of IPC, which has resulted in harassment of husbands by wives and in-laws. Any one is forced to go to jail, just on a simple complain by estranged wife. Why the wife does not go to prison if the charges are false? 06. Is the price too much? Some one would say that these steps are too much and would result in complete overhaul of our Modern Free and advanced society. So in that case we should be ready to face such cases of rapes and gang rapes. Saying Ah, and OOH and OUCH are what we should do and we have done that already. PS: If you plant barley, how can you reap Wheat? The course which we have chosen leads to what we see in our front..

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Chapter-4, On Jews, Israel, Palestine and Related Topics


[QUOTE who="Sailor"] Q.72 1. Answer: Speaking of the nation of Israel, Deuteronomy 7:7-9 tells us, The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands. [/QUOTE] Ans. 1. The Key Phrase in your Quotation is He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands. God is Loving God to those who love Him and Keep His commandments!! So long as Jews were doing that, God loved them and Chose them and bestowed His favors on them. But when the same Jews swerved from the True Path and followed evil path, Gods anger turned on them and He chastised them in no uncertain ways. Gods anger on Jews was gradual and had many stages: a. First God chastised Jews by minor attacks and taking their lands by their enemies, so that they might repent. b. When that did not help, God sent Nebuchadnezzar in ~ 500 BC who destroyed the Temple of Solomon at Jerusalem and took Jews for captivity for 70 years. c. After 70 years of captivity, Jews did repent and beseeched God for mercy, who had mercy on them and they got freedom and returned back to Jerusalem and rebuilt their temple and vowed to walk in Gods ways. d. But soon they forgot their promise and started doing evil deeds..then God sent Jesus as a Final Prophet from Isaac line of Abraham, to deliver a final warning to Jews to turn back and mend their ways.

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e. But Jews did not heed to the warning of Jesus and became his enemies and even tried to kill him. That was the final warning from God.and in year 70 CE Roman General Titus once again destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem and dispersed Jews thru our Europe. f. Jews had one final chance of redemption to believe in the Last and Final prophet of God, which God sent from Ishmaelite branch of Abrahams family. Moses, David, Isaiah and Jesus, all had prophesized the advent of such a prophet. g. If Jews had heeded to this prophet, they could have got back Palestine and much more land for an everlasting possession.. but true to their mentality they rejected Last and Final Prophet and became mortal enemy of him and his message.. when they did it, God cursed them and they were removed from the Mercy of God unless they repent. h. Therefore Jews are no longer Chosen people of God, unless they first state believing in Jesus and then believe in the Last and Final prophet. Choice is in their hands and with no one else. Allah Knows Best.

[QUOTE who="True"]

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Q. 73. The following prophecies are just some of the many that prove God's omniscient hand on his people the Jews (Nation of Israel) 1. The Lord will never forget his chosen people: Leviticus 26:44 2. The nation of Israel will never cease to be a nation of people Jeremiah 31:35-36 35 This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD Almighty is his name: 3. God promises to restore Israel to their land Jeremiah 32:36-37 37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. (THE PROMISE TO RESTORE ISRAEL) [/QUOTE] Ans. 1. What you are quoting is correct but your context seems to be wrong. 02. You forget that MANY of the promises of God to bring Jews back to the land of Palestine refer tot heir First Exile to the land of Babylon. That phase of their history is over and you cannot use those prophesies for every where in human history. 03. When Jesus appeared on the scene and Jews rejected him and tried to kill him, things too a different turn. Now they were branded as a rebellious people and the ONLY way to come back into the fold of God was to turn back and accept Jesus as their prophet. So long they continue to deny Jesus.. the path is blocked for them. 04. And when the Last and Final prophet of God came in Arabia as a Universal messenger of God (which Moses prophesized in Deut 18:18 and which Jesus prophesized in John Ch 14-16), that was really the Last Chance for Jews to rectify all their past mistakes and make themselves worthy to receive Grace of God. But Jews true to their mentality rejected him and became his and his messages bitterest enemies. To their hatred for truth was added the hared of being asked to follow a prophet from Ishmaelite branch of Abrahams family!!

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05. So now if Jews want to turn back and be ready to receive Grace and Mercy of God, they have to follow and acknowledge the mission of both Jesus AND Last and Final messenger of God (It is not a tall order, because 1.5 Billion Muslims do that). There is no short cut. 06. As regards their coming together from all parts of world and establishing their homeland in the land of Palestine, regarding that we also have some info in our Islamic literature that close to End of World, Jews and Christians shall become very powerful and the time of Great tribulations shall come on earth. 07. We do not know that our time is what is intended in that prophesy. The Zionist state of Israel established in Palestine 60 years back, is not what is mentioned in these Biblical prophesies. Because it is not only Physical occupation of land but establishing rule of Laws and Commandments. 07A. The present state of Israel is mostly an Atheist and Materialistic country and has no regards for the Laws of Torah and Commandments of God. 07B. And even if we consider that arrival of Jews from all over the world corresponds to the nearness of End of Time. Then we should wait for coming on Anti Christ and descent of Jesus Christ from heavens. None of these bodes any thing good for Jews. It is as if chickens from all over the field and being gathered for one Final Scoop. Jews from all over the world are getting concentrated into one country and one place (by their own choice and they cannot blame any one else for that). 08. What is needed to please God and Lord of Universe, is sincerity. Piety, Equity, fair play, justice, equality and walking in the ways of God. Not that I have this genealogy, I speak this language, and color of my skin is this and color of my eyes is that. All these are outer criterion, Our Lord and God of Universe sees what is inside of our hearts He is Lord and God of blacks, browns, grey, yellow and Whites.

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[QUOTE who="GP"] Q. 74 One of the reasons I side with the Israelis in their struggle is the fact that of all the worlds religions, Judaism as far as I know has never been bent on world conquest. They seem to just want their piece of land and asking the Arabs to please quit hiding bombs in their baby strollers. At least Judaism and Christianity don't tell you to convert at the point of a gun. [/QUOTE] Ans. I think you might be working in the PRO of Israel!! No one else could present such a rosy picture of Jews and Zionists and present them as a wooly lamb as you have done. It is real pity that Titus the Roman General killed and banished them from Palestine 2000 years ago and that Jews were so much persecuted by almost every Christian country during those 2000 years. Why EVERY Christian nation in past persecuted so "harmless and wooly lambs like Jews"? I fail to understand, Can you throw some light on it? It is after we get clear answer to this Jew Christian bad blood, we will consider the bad blood between Jews and Arabs.

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[QUOTE who="Fact"]MUQ , Have you seen a single Jew protest by killing people? [/QUOTE] Q.75. Jews "routinely" kill small children and women and old people who "protest" against their misrule in Palestine!! Jews are behind that Media that spreads lies and half-truths against Islam , and they have created the rift between Muslims and Christians and they are reaping the benefits of that rift. The Crimes of Jews are much more serious than killing a few people here and there, they are planning destruction and killings of humans on a much larger scale. For starters 9/11 was one of their brainchild , they planned and executed it and put the blame of those 19 hijackers, who might not even know that WTC Towers were designed to withstand strike by fully loaded jetliners striking them at full speed. The way they collapsed like house of cards, cannot be explained by science or engineering. I do not know why you posed that "innocent" Question!! [QUOTE who="pushstart"] Q. 76. Why do people hate Jews. Are we talking the little big headed bearded men and the 4 ft tall grandma's that wear black? There are different jewish people in the world because the ones I know grow their own gardens, talk jibberish and don't live off the government. They are hard workers! Their meat is full in the freezer. So what is the problem? The ones in Israel? what are they like? Hitler hated them, what's the beef? [/QUOTE] Ans. Why people do hate Jews? You asked a very good question. In our times they want a short cut answer that Only Arabs and Muslims hate Jews and rest of the world just loves them. Even if it is correct what about other people? Jews have a history of at least 4000 years. During this large period they dealt with so many people, why they did not love Jews. Did Romans Loved Jews? Did Parisians Loved Jews? Did Assyrians Loved Jews?

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Did Early Christians loved Jews? Did European Christians (700-1900 CE period) loved Jews? Were jews loved in ANY European country? And is it really country in the world that LOVES Jews? Is there ANY country in the world that is ready to give them a peace of land where they can live happily ever after? So what is in Jews which makes people of every age and every nation to hate them? I do not want to answer this question myself (because they may accuse me of bias), I just give hint: a. People hate those who stand up for Truth and Justice and Equity and end Discrimination ( as all prophets and reformers were hated in their times). b. People hate people who consider them superior to others and want special favors for them which they do not give to other. c. People hate people who try to exploit them financially, and control their resources and make them real or virtual slaves. d. People hate people who try to incite one group against another so that these two fight and they exploit both these groups. There could be many other reasons, but I mentioned major reasons due to which some people are hated as a group. So coming to reasons, Why Jews are hated / were hated thru out their history by almost every nation / country they lived in for any long period of time? I can only provide hint, that except for a very brief period (when prophets of God were present amongst them) Jews were not seen as a group openly raised their voice to bring Truth, Justice, Equity, and Fairplay amongst all Nations. So why People hate Jews? Can any one answer? (please forget the period 1900-2012)

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[QUOTE who="NT"] Q. 77. Then why should those who were evicted from Palestine think they have the right to return to what was once their ancestral lands, going by what you just said ? [/QUOTE] Ans. Those who were evicted from Palestine cannot be compared with those who were evicted more than 2000 years back. Because the event is in our recent memory and these people are fighting for their return from the very creation of Israel. The struggle is continuous and there is no time gap, it is like some thief or some strong man forcefully evicts you from your house and takes its possession, and you continue your legal and vocal battle to regain the possession. While in case of Jews, once they were evicted, they accepted their fate and did not mount any struggle to get it back and it was a long lost event. They revived it after 2000 years and claim their ancient ownership, how can we compare it with the current Palestinians struggle? If we go by this logic, then USA can claim Iraq and Afghanistan because they occupied these countries for some time.!!

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[QUOTE who="Ab s"] Q. 78 News you will not see on IRNA or Al Jazeera... What is you opinion on this one Muq? More than 200 Israeli Christians rallied Tuesday against the inadvertent burning of Bibles and other Christian religious materials during trash disposal at an Israeli military base. They demanded to meet with the country's leaders over the issue and threatened to demonstrate again if their demand was not met... [/QUOTE] Ans. It is strange for Christians to criticize any action of their Lord and Master Jews. After all it is Israel, which holds the key for Jesus second coming and Christians should make every sacrifice that it stays safe and secure. Already Christians have made enough sacrifices for Israel, they created it and handed it on platter to Jews. They paid Trillions of Dollars of free aid since its inception. They used hundreds of Veto Powers in Security Council to shield Israel from any sanctions and actions by UN.they even fought proxy wars for that country, they got tens of thousands of their soldiers killed, and hundreds of thousands of injured and disabled. They have seen their economies being ruined due to those proxy wars.they made sacrifices upon sacrifices and bore all that with stiff upper lips. All that in return of hope that some how Jesus come and save Christians from torments of the world Now after all the sacrifices they have made, what are a few thousand copies of their literature being desecrated by Israeli Army? Do they want to turn over the cart all because of this minor incident? I think Christians are over reacting, if they would have understood the main reason for establishing of Israel, they should not have protested. After all Jews are insulting Jesus and his mother and speaking horrible words about them for past 2000 yearsand they have not changed their status yet. If THAT did not prevent Christians making up with Jews and Zionists and becoming bosom friends with them, why cry over a few thousand copies of religious literature? No one reads them after all!! Moral:

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When you pick up weasel for your Bosom Friend, you should be ready for a few surprises. It is for Christians to Give, Give and Give and for Jews to take, take and take.why reverse the trend and ask Jews to Give anything (even if it means religious tolerance and respect to scriptures of other people)

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[QUOTE who="NT"] Q. 79. Who is really native to any lands seeing their ancestors came from somewhere else to be there. Do you remember me asking you why Arabs would live in their traditional lands seeing their environment can be cruel. [/QUOTE] Ans.

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A. Ancestral Land: If you really ask me, there is no land "permanent" to any people in the world. All humans have descended from Adam and they have equal rights on any land. As for Palestine, this land was not "original" to Jews at all. They were not born there. Abraham was not born there, neither were Isaac and Jacob and their forefathers of 12 tribes. Jews conquered this land when they came out of Egypt and "made" it their land. So once you take some land by force, it can also be taken back from your by force. That is why since the day Jews came to this land, it has not seen any day of peace, not even day and this shall continue, till the Jews are removed once more from this land. This is what history teaches us and that is what it is going to repeat itself. B. Arabs and their land: As regarding Arabs, when Abraham settled Ishmael, at the age of two in Makkah, the land was barren and unoccupied. So Ishmael did not have to fight and dispossess any one to settle there. And any one who take possession of a barren and desolate land becomes its owner is recognized by every one. So Arabs taking possession of Arabia is justified both logically and by reason. As to why did Arabs venture outside Arabia and conquered other lands, well it was their mission to propagate the faith of Islam to all distant corners of the world. And God did reward them with lands and wealth and countries and every good things of this world. That was a small payment for one who does God' s work on this earth, their real reward shall be in the hereafter. Jews on the other hand just want to take possession of land for the sake of land. They do not invite others to their religion, nor propagate it to other people. Why should the land be given to them? So that they just live and live? That is not logical and reasonable. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Taftman"] Q. 80. 01. I could also reply, That still leaves the Palestinians, Guilty as charged. 02. But the fact remains that if the Palestinians had not started lobbing rockets in to Israeli territory and had refrained from the use of suicide bombers we would probably be in a better position to see a negotiated peace, 03. But why should Israel give any more land away if the Palestinians refuse to give up Killing Israelis, 04. Remember there is only one side which has the annihilation of the other written in to its constitution. 05. Personally if I was Israeli I would want my government to do exactly as the Israelis have done. 06. Israel made the first move to peace, it removed a large number of its own people from the Gaza strip, some of which were second generation, .. 07. I believe it only took three days after taking over the Gaza strip before the Palestinians started to fire rockets in to civilian areas of Israel. .. 08. NO. but the Israelis were called every thing by the Muslim countries in the UN. .. 09. You can spout all the nonsense you like about Israel being a Nazi state etc But 10. The Israelites left the Gaza strip with an abundance of good fertile land, already planted with crops of corn and fruit trees, .. 11. They have invested in hate and corruption buying guns, [/QUOTE] Ans. I have broken your post into 11 heads and I will post a reply to each of them and correct some of the misconceptions that you have. 01. Yes you can accuse the Palestinians guilty as charged and your media will take that up and amplify it 1000 fold, till every one is saying the same thing.

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02. You forget why Palestinians started firing rockets into Israeli territory in the first place? The land brings to them in the first place and Jews are the usurpers and they turned these Palestinians out of the lands. They went on knocking the doors of every International organization, but no one came to help them, so now they are trying to help themselves and they have full right to do so, 03. It is not Israeli land at all, the land is Palestinians which Israel grabbed after its original boundaries that were marked in 1947. 04. What is wrong if removal of your enemy is part of your constitution? 05. You are most welcome to migrate to Israel and help Israeli Govt. all help to fulfill its agenda. As it is you might be having Israeli nationality as a gift from the criminal state. 06. Israel did not came out of Gaza with any good intention. US resolutions to pull out of All Arab lands acquired by it since 1947 are still there. So many UN resolutions for Israel to vacate All lands it occupied after 1967 war are still there. Israeli is unilaterally refusing to accept these UN resolutions.it was forced to vacate gaza when it saw that it cannot control it and world pressure is increasing on its day by day. You say Muslims have strong lobby in UN, while it is exactly opposite. It is US and European countries who veto every UN resolution in Security Council that goes against Israel. 07. Israel did not pull out of Gaza for any humanitarian reasonthe main problem still persists, so they should be ready to face all consequences, till they go back to 1947 boundaries as a temporary solution. 08. Israel will not give one inch of land with its own free will. That is the common trait of all thieves and robbers and usurpers. They will be forced to give it back, inch by inch. 09. Which state is worse is for God to judge, but by ant standard israeli Govt is the most inefficient in the world. Their achievement are meager compared to the Trillions of Dollars of free aid they get from US and European countries. 10. You did not see the pictures of fertile and land where honey and milk was flowing before Jews were forced to lave it and within three or four days, they started bombing the same land. 11. Hate and corruption are two way street and not one way. How much of its GDP Israel spends on security and arms and war fare and terrorist activities? And they will continue to do so, because the wages of sin and inequity are shame in this world and more shame and punishment in the hereafter.

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It shows that they did not learn ANYTHING from their 2000 years of Exile and are behaving exactly in the same way they behaved before their First and second Exile. Now I think that Exile is not a solution any more to the problem of Jews.what should be done to them? I ask you.

[QUOTE who="Neville Thompson"]<quoted text> Q.81 Does this prove they have the right of passage over these lands you mention ? [/QUOTE] You do not get any right just because your forefathers lived in a particular land. You get your right by taking possession of the land and by holding it to it against all odd. That is how nations are built and that is how they get permanency. If Arabs had abandoned the land of Makkah at any time during their 4500 years history, they would not get the right to come back simply because 'Ishmael' once lived there. I answered your question, where were Jews living before they went to Egypt. If they captured that land of Palestine and made it their homes, it was justifiable from every angle. But if they were kicked out of that land (for whatever reasons, I do not want to go into that) for 2000 years, they do not get "automatic right" to come back and repossess their "inheritance". I do not know if any other people got hold of any land based on this principle.....only exception in my memory are the Jews, who were re-settled in Palestine after a gap of 2000 years.

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[QUOTE who="NINA"] Q.82. I wouldnt ever deny anyone their homeland. So I suppose since you don't dispute my saying about Palestinians' right to their homeland, that means you acknowledge they both have a right to it ,so they should find a way to share it. Peacefully . This cant be for ever .. [/QUOTE] Ans. I thank you for your Noble sentiments. In fact for past 1300 years Muslims, Jews and Christians were living peacefully in the land of Palestine. There was no conflict, there was no fighting and the land was having peace for so many centuries. That all changed when this Zionist movement started around 1900 and was supported by Britain and America and other European nations. After the end of WW-1, Britain got the foothold in Palestine and allowed the Zionists landing there with the slogan Palestine belongs to Jews. That was the bad day for Palestine, because since that day, the land has not seen a single day of peace and no one knows how long the land and people has to suffer. Every one wants peace, but there is no one to catch the hand of Oppressor and Tyrant. Wishing for peace is very good, but nothing comes out of mere wishes.one must act for peace and path that lead to peace. [QUOTE who="Advocate"] Question 83. : why does no one on this thread seem to have a problem with Muslims and Christians being in power, but object when Jews are in a position of power? [/QUOTE] Ans. A very good Question indeed!! Why no one has any problem when Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Whites..rule their countries and expand their boundaries..why every one is concerned when Jews control a country?

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Firstly because Jews do not own any country!! They have lost all ideas to rule and run a country after their more than 2000 years of wanderings!! They are like a nomad people, who are happy to move from here to there!! And they got hold of Palestine, not because of any moral issue or by honesty, but my sleigh of hand and intrigue and secret planning. No one grudges when a Lion makes a kill in Forest and eats its belly full..while EVERYONE hates a weasel when it steals food and scavenges it!! Jews are like Weasels and Muslims and Christians and Chinese and other people are like Lions!! How can one equate Lion with a Weasel!! [QUOTE who="TEE"] Q84. 01. MUQ- yes Israel has lost many battles and wars. in the bible GOD foretold their victories and defeats. 02. GOD punished them for 2000 YEARS! .. 03. ever since Israel became a nation in 1949 they have been through many wars. in fact they were raged war upon a week 04. almost every country in the middle east has raged war against them even in a combined effort yet they were victorious every time. 05. the land that was giving to Israel was barren desert. a wasteland that nobody wanted. mark twain even wrote about how desolate and depressing the land was. yet the Israelis brought it to life. 06. there has been no other ethnic group in the world that has suffered those most horrific and inhumane treatment 07. you say they have to answer for the crimes for the past 60 years? HA! pay close attention to what happens in Gaza. I will make you a believer.. [/QUOTE] Ans.

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It seems you are 'enslaved' by the Might of Isreal, unless you be a Jew, I find your post as the response from some one who is brainwashed totally. Let me put brief comments on your posts. 01. You said that Isreal lost many wars and battles and they just happened "because they were foretold in the Bible"? Is that the reason? Does not Bible give the reason why will they win the war and why they will loose the war? Bible says that they will win the wars, when they are on the path of truth and justice and walking in the ways of God and they will loose the wars and battles when they rebel against God. Now if we find that Jews are winning the wars and battles, while "Not following the ways and paths of God", it means that this is not a thing with which God is Happy about. It is a severe warning to them from God 2. The Isreal were defeated and taken into captivity, because they rebelled from God and killed many prophets of God and started doing idol worship. That was their "First major chastisement" 3. They were given reprieve after 70 years of captivity not because "It was written in Bible" but because they repented from their ways and agreed to abide by the Laws of God (This is also written in the Bible!!) 4. But soon they fell again into temptation and corruption and then as a "last warning" God sent Jesus Christ as the "Last of Jewish Prophet" to them (This is also written in the Bible!!). But Jews rejected Jesus and even tried to kill him. Because of this "Crime" they were banished from the holy lands for close to 2000 years and dispersed thru out the world. 5. Now the question is, did Jews learnt their lesson? Did they reform themselves? Did they started believe in Jesus Christ? Did they repented and took a vow to walk in the ways of God? If any of these things would have happened, it would have been reasonable to believe that their return is a blessing from God and God is with them. But if they return to the Holy Land without any of these "tell tale" signs, then it is only as a severe test for them. It is like Pharaoh who was given power to persecute Jews and enslave them and torture them. Till his time was up!! 06. Or may be Muslims have fallen lower than Jews and have stopped following Islam and its teachings and it is God' way to warn them and punish them thru Jews.

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That might be the true reason why Jews are seeming to be "invincible" right now, but rest assured the times are going to change, 07. God is not interested who lives in a particular piece of Land, whole Earth is His and He gives to whomsoever He thinks fit. But if the gift of Land and prosperity is accompanied with people walking in the ways of God, following His Laws and Commandments, then it is a Blessing. But if we see, people getting power and money and every gift of the earth WITHOUT walking in the ways of God, then it is a mere temptation and a SEVER Warning from God (And this is ALSO written in the Bible!!) 08. Enemies of Islam (especially Christians, who actually propped up Jews and helped them return to Isreal) are very happy that Isreal is winning for past 60 years against "disjointed and dis united, fractured small Muslim states" and under false notion that Isreal in invincible. Are due for a shock, when Muslims get the message. 9. May be the events of Gaza will let Muslims get the message.let us hope and see. PS: And Palestine being a "barren land" a "Dump Yard" is just a "Myth" just like the "Myth" that 9/11 was planned and done by "Osama Alone" and it was "single jet strikes" that brought down WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 collapsing down to their bases. How strange that in these days of Modern Science, people believing in these myths!!

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[QUOTE who="Dhimmi"] Q. 85. You forget MUQ that we Yahood have had a very different history from Muslims. We primarily lived as a small minority in host nations that were generally hostile to our presence. So any attempts to defend our religion or honour would have resulted in us being massacred. So we sacrificed honour for survival. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Yes I know that you Yahood have a very different story from Muslims and I have full sympathy with you people. 02. But if you reflect, you have only yourselves to blame for it and not YHWH. He brought you people out of Egypt and gave you people power in the land of Palestine and took a vow that you people would walk in His ways. 03. Yahood's power reached Zenith during the time of David and Solomon, when they had absolute power in the land. 04. But then they disobeyed the YHWH, gave no heed to the prophet's warning sent to them. Some they killed and some they banished and they fell into disputes and factions.. 05. They did not invite those living around then to their religion, always treating them with contempt and always trying to dominate them with their physical power. 06. That was their attitude when Jerusalem was taken over for the first time and Yahood were taken into captivity for seventy years. 07. After 70 years YHWH again had mercy on your people and released them from captivity and gave back power to them in Jerusalem. But they again forgot their vow to THWH and repeated the same thing. 08. When Jesus was sent as last prophet to Yahood, instead of heading his message, Yahood became his arch enemy. And in the end said "It is good for nation if one man die" that is why YHWH 's anger came to Yahood and they were banished once again from Jerusalem in year 70 CE. 09. But in which ever country they went, they were not loyal to that country. They exploited those people thru Usury and every deceitful means. That is why they could never win the trust of those nations. 10. When the Last and Final prophet appeared in Arabia, it was a golden chance for Yahood to wash-off their past and join him and get their glory back. But they again thought that clinging to their elders and their traditions is better than a house in Paradise and as usual became his mortal enemies.

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11. And now when they have got a foot hold in Israel (By deceit, intrigue and with the help of their "Christian Friends"). They have maintained the earlier bullish attitude. They are threatening every nation around them with dire consequences, they Bombed Nuclear plant of Iraq and threatening to do the same with Iran. They do not have a single friend in all nations around them. With such an attitude, how their future shall be secure, I fail to understand. 12. They should take lessons from Muslims and our defeat at the hands of Tataris. These wild people killed millions of Muslims and destroyed nations after nations. But in a short time they converted to Islam and became its defenders. How was that done, no one even knows!! So in the end, you sacrificed honor for survival, but is it real survival?

[QUOTE who="NT"] Q. 86. Interestingly enough ,at a later time Mossad was caught out when it was found they had stolen the identities of foreigners including Australians in some scam in Europe I remember reading in the press [/QUOTE] Ans. The fact is Christians are no match to the intelligence and cunning of Jews and Zionists. The Jews and Zionists have totally neutralized Christianity in the past couple of centuries. The Christians are doing exactly what these Jews and Zionists want them to do. And what is more they seem to like their servitude!! Can you imagine if their Media (Newspapers, Magazines, Films and TV News channels) and their Finances (Banks, Stock Market Firms, Insurance Firms and Legal Houses) were controlled by Hindus or Blacks or Arabs or Hispanics, how much these Christians would have disliked it and would have rebelled against it. But no Christian even thinks twice that all these are being controlled by a very small minority and they seem to like it!! You could have seen the hue and cry which was made when some Company from Dubai had won the contract to manage one of the ports in USA. There was nothing wrong in the deal, but the Media made so much hue and cry as if the Arabs were invading the country!!

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And at the same time, Jews and Zionists openly control their finances and media and boast about their allegiance to Israel and Jewish and Zionist cause, and no one in USA or Europe thinks any thing strange about it!! So it is nothing strange if some one from these groups planned and executed the whole 9/11 event and sent them to follow the wrong lead!! And I think that basic reason is that Christians are very simple people. No doubt they are hard working and industrious and have infinite energy, but they have no power of thinking and analyzing political and religious matters. Just look at 2000 years back when s single Jew by the name of Paul, single handedly changed the simple religion of Jesus and these simpletons Christians drank every word which this Paul told them , without even once questioning his Authority or the asking about the proof of what he was teaching. When these Simpleton Christians can accept that God has Begotten a Son, that One man died for the Sin of Entire Humanity and that God is a Triune God. When these people are so Simple and can believe in such impossibilities, what is strange if they Believe that Osama single handedly pulled off an event like 9/11 and all laws of Physics and Engineering were temporality disabled the moment those Planes touched WTC!!

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[QUOTE who="Dave C"] Q. 87 Ans. To A We werent enforcing UN Resolution 687 in 2003. That time had passed. What we were enforcing was the Iraq Liberation Act signed by Clinton in 1998. In 2003, Bush gave Saddam an ultimatum-either leave or we will come in and throw you out. Had Saddam simply left, there would have been no invasion, but he didnt and the problem with ultimatums is sometimes you have to follow through. 3000 people died on 9-11 because the US was still in the Muslim Holy Land. We had promised the Saudis that we would not drag them into a major war and abandon them the way we had the South Vietnamese. As long as Saddam was in power he would be a threat to the regionespecially if he still had WMDs. Once Saddam was removed from power, all US troops were removed from the Muslim Holy Land. Ans. To B We didnt give the Jews anything! There had been Jews in Israel for nearly 4000 years. The only thing that had changed were the rulers so when the chance came with the British getting ready to leave, the Jews simply took it. The same way the Romans took it from them. The same way the Arabs took it from the Byzantines. The same way the Turks took it from the Arabs and the same way the British took it from the Turks. The day after they announce the State of Israel, they were attacked by six Arab armies which they defeated. This was long before we sent any support to them. Why is it Muslim Land? It was Jewish before the Romans took it. It was Christian before the Arabs took it. Is Spain also Muslim Land? Ans. To conclusion If there is no one to enforce international law and order, then there is no international law and order. Nobody listens to the UN. Not the Israelis, not the Arabs, not the North Koreans, not the Russians, not the British, not the Chinese, not the Iranians, not the Pakistanis, nobody not even the US. So why would anyone seek their guidance. [/QUOTE] Ans. My Reply to your post is as follows: A. On Iraq:

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You post speak of Highhanded ness of USA. Clinton asked Saddam to Go, Bush ordered Saddam to go? What rights these US Presidents have to order some one to go? Would US like if someone asked or ordered Obama to resign and go? This is what I call interfering into the affairs of other nations? Every powerful nation believes that they have God Given Right to order and interfere into other nations affairs but no one should interfere into their own affairs. Russia, China and so many nations also have WMD s, why cant USA advise and order them to destroy it? And USA itself as the biggest stockiest of these weapons, what moral right it has to order other nations to destroy it? B. On Israel: Either you are ignorant or playing nave. It was US and British which allowed large scale Jews migration to Palestine when they got foothold there after end of WW-1. If you are going thru history and agreeing that it is OK for any nation to dispossess another, then why should you find fault Muslims to take it back from jews? You should leave them alone and settle the dispute between themselves, why should you be a party to one side only? C. On UNO: No one listens to UNO, because these so called Superpowers with their Veto powers have made it a laughing stock. They veto any resolution whenever they please and then there is no appeal against that veto. They enforce UN resolutions only against small nations and mostly Muslim nations and forget all others. That is the main cause of UN s lack of authority. After the fall of USSR, US and NATO have seen to it that it is no longer a functional body. At best it is a rubber stamp of these countries. So US should blame itself and its partners for the plight of UNO.

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[QUOTE who="Advocate"] Q. 88 01.I think you missed the last part about the whole topic on deicide. If it were not for that then he could have been really taken into consideration but of course he will no be included in Jewish studies if millions in Europe were being slaughtered in his name. 02. I don't think there has to be a specific compulsion to religion. If Jewish people don't want to believe in Jesus, that's ok, much as in the same way that Muslims don't want to believe in the Holy Trinity and the Christian saints. Everyone is entitled to freedom of belief and shouldn't be forced to conform to other people's standards. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. I know you cannot include Jesus into Jewish scriptures because he came afterwards. But why you reject him, why not be with him and not those with those Scribes and Pharisees who rejected him? 02. No I do not agree with you there that Jews are at "liberty" to believe in Jesus or not. When God send him as a prophet to Jews, they have no choice left but to believe him. What are they trying to convey to God? That we will believe in this prophet and that in that prophet even if you sent him? Is it not a rebellion against God? The reason we Muslims reject Trinity, Divinity of Jesus and his Atonement of sin, is that we are told that these are not what Jesus taught. These are innovation of St. Paul who did not learn anything from Jesus. So our rejection of these Christian dogmas is different from Jews rejection of prophethood and mission of Jesus. I wish you will consider the differences in the two approaches. 03. I told you, even if I hate Jews it is for their actions and not that they are Jews. In the long history of Islam, it those dark centuries of Europe, it were Muslims who were giving refuge to Jews and now Jews are at the forefront of this hate campaign against Islam and Muslims. That Jews have overwhelming Control on Western media and they control their finances is no more a "hidden secret" It is open for any one to investigate it and know the truth behind it.

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But on personal level I have no hate or grudge against you or any other Jew discussing with me.

[QUOTE who="Advocate"] Q. 89. 1) Jesus does not fill the criteria for the Messiah, even if I don't believe in that. You have a checklist to fill if you want to become the world's savior and whatnot. 2) Jewish people get peeved when others insist that Jesus had no connection to Judaism. He was Jewish and studied with rabbis in the temples and was circumcised; it was only until Paul that Christianity evolved into a religion separate from Judaism. 3) The whole accusation of deicide and such. The Romans were the ones who crucified him on a hill and killed him, but it's interesting to see that, quite to the contrary, there is no anti Roman movement in Christianity today, the traditional liturgical language of the Roman Catholic division is Latin, and the Papacy is based in Rome. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Messiah is a very common word in Jewish terminology. It simply means some one which is appointed to a particular mission from God. In OT books we find so many people given this Title of Messiah. The fact is Jews were looking for two Messiahs when Jesus started his mission. One was a last Jewish prophet amongst themselves and one was The Last and Final Prophet amongst their "brethren" i.e. Ishmaelites!! (Which Moses Prophesized in Deut 18:18). That is why when John the Baptist declared his missions, Jewish Priests asked him THREE questions and not ONE Question. These Questions an answers are mentioned in Gospel of Jon Ch-1, verses 4-28. Jesus NEVER claimed to be a world savior himself. He said that he was only a prophet to the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel. How can you held them responsible for mistakes of others. 02. Any one who says that Jesus had no connection with Judaism is telling a lie. Jesus never broke any Commandment of God and he never broke Moses's Law (except when he modified it as per what he received from God). You are right, Jesus never wanted to start a new religion, it was basically because of Paul that Christianity developed into a separate religion.

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But if Paul did mistake, why should you reject Jesus? What is his fault in it. We Muslims believe in Jesus and his message, but we reject all those "extremities" which Paul took with the message of Jesus. I think Jews should do the same. They must start believing in Jesus and only limit themselves to what Jesus himself said. This is much better than calling him imposter and calling him and his mother names which no civilized man could utter. 3. You are wrong here, Romans had no enmity with Jesus at all. It were Jews who got him arrested, tried him in their religious courts , passed sentence of death on him and THEN sent Jesus to Roman Governor to get the decree confirmed (that is if you believe that all those gobbled up records in Gospels about arrest, trial and crucifixion are true). Jews cannot escape their accountability in the whole affair. But Jews should not be disheartened!! Quran is to their rescue!! According to Quran, Jesus did not die and was not crucified, God took him bodily into heavens, before Jews could lay hand on him. So the whole episode is just a mix-up and comedy of error, they got some other guy!! The best way for Jews is to believe in what Quran says and deny this whole idea of crucifixion!! 04. I do not hate Jews, just because they are Jews. We hate then for the crimes they have done against us and the crimes they are doing. Jews are a major source for creating bad blood between Christian countries of the West and Islamic nation. It is because of Jewish controlled media that so much Anti Islamic propaganda is carried out 24 hours a day. Our hate is issue based and not based on any racial or linguistic or ethnic issues. We want to invite Jews and Christians and every one else to give up their rebellion against God and Lord of Universe and become His Righteous Servants. Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="TJM"] Q. 90. There is no such thing as a Messianic Jew. The Law of Moses doesn't count. Jesus instituted the NEW Covenant, to love. Cornelius was the first Gentile to join the 1st century Christians. [/QUOTE] Ans. You got a lot of check to say that Laws of Moses do not count, Jesus said any one who breaks the least of these commandments or ask people to do so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.. And you stand here saying that laws of Moses do not count. It was idea of St. Paul that Jesus brought a New Covenant that superseded the old one. Do not think that St. Paul and Jesus were on the same frequency!! It is Messianic Jews who are real Jews and they are also the Real Christians. [QUOTE who="HBB"] Q. 91. If todays Messianic Jews are persecuted, then it is not the first time believers have suffered for The Lords sake. Christians have always been hated by the world, as the world hates God. A Lamp In The Dark: untold history of Bible ~ Full Film - YouTube &#9658; 178:25&#9658; 178:25 www.youtube.com/watch... So, we have suffered much. It is worth it, though. [/QUOTE] Ans. It is only natural that Messianic Jews be persecuted by both Christians and Jews alike. By Jews because they recognize Jesus Christ as a True prophet of God and follow his teachings.

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By Pauline Christians because they try to follow the Laws of Moses, which were supposed to be hanged on the cross along with Jesus Christ. As long as Messianic Jews are being persecuted by Jews and Christians, they should feel happy that they are on the right path. They should start worrying if they are welcomed with open hands and hugged by Jews and Christians .that might show that they are slipping in their faith and beliefs and in adhering to their religion. Any one trying to propagate Truth and Justice in any nation or world would naturally be disliked by all people of the nation or country. PS: Do you not find it strange if True Muslims get persecuted by Jews, Pauline Christians and Messianic Jews? Reason Muslims believe in Moses , Jesus AND the Last and Final prophet Mohammad, Peace be on to him.!! [QUOTE who="HM"] Q.92. Who spoke to the prophet Moses at the burning bush on the backside of the desert near Horeb? [/QUOTE] Ans. It was God who spoke to Moses from those Bushes. How it happened, we have no real knowledge. We only believe what God says in His book.

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[QUOTE who="Khatru"] Q. 93. Moses went to Mount Sinai only three times? Ans. You're right. Moses actually went up the mountain three times: 01. The first time Moses went up the mountain, he came back down with no stone tablets. He just recited what God was supposed to have told him and that is the list of do's and don'ts in Exodus 20. 02. Moses went up the mountain a second time. This time he came back with stone tablets engraved with ten commandments which he smashed in a fit of pique. 03. Moses went back up a third time to get a replacement set of tablets which God duly provided for him. These commandments were the same as the ones on the smashed tablets so it's safe to say that they were more important than the first, verbal edicts. 04. There was no outlawing of killing and stealing on these ten divine enactments. What they did contain were orders that the Jews had to observe the Feast of Weeks (whatever that was) as well as not to cook a kid goat in its mother's milk. 05. If you look at the full ten in Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 you'll see that the commandments inscribed on stone tablets were quite different to what is commonly regarded as the Ten Commandments. So, the stone tablets kept in the Ark of the Covenant were the ones that Moses brought down on his third trip. [/QUOTE] Ans.

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Sorry to interrupt you in your private discussions. You could be right that Moses went up the Mountain at Sinai to "Speak" with God. But according to Quran (And Allah knows best), this is what transpired on each visit: 1. Moses First Visit: This happened when Moses was on this way from Median to Egypt and it was a cold night, and his wife was having pains of labor. In that dark night, he was a Fire not far away from where he was standinghe went to investigate and God spoke with him and made him a prophet and charged him to go to Pharaoh and get Israel out of Egypt. 2. Moses' Second Visit: This is when God gave him the stone Tablet with Instructions. Quran says that "We wrote everything for guidance and admonition" in that tablet. They could include the famous Ten Commandments and some things more. And according to Quran, Moses did not "break those tablets" (How a prophet of God would become so "charged up" and show so much tantrum and break the Tablets which God gave him is beyond imagination , and "how" can you break a "stone tablet" so that you cannot read it?- MUQ). Quran says that when Moses saw his people worshipping Golden Calf he felt sadness and anger and he "put aside" the tablets and caught his brother Aaron by hair and asked "How could you allow this?"etc. And when his anger subsided, "he picked up the tablets". Now people can see, who depicts the character of a Prophet of God in better light? Quran or Bible? 3. Moses' Third Visit: According to Quran, Moses went with seventy Chiefs of Israel to Mount Sinai and there they took "Pledge or Covenant" that they would follow all the laws and commandments of God and any instructions they might receive from God thru their prophets. 4. And then Moses did receive guidance and instructions from God thru out his period of mission and that happens with every prophet. This is a short summary from Quran on the topic you mentioned and Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="Frijoles"] Q.94 01. Where DID Jews come from then? India? Denial of history (even your OWN history as Muslims incorporated the bible into their holy books_ gets you nowhere. 02. Israelis are pragmatic. If the other side wasnt inherently hostile, then there would be no need for demilitarization. Why should Israel withdraw to the 48 lines anyhow? They werent the ones attacked in 48, and they werent the ones who lost. Get real. 03. The PA has police and the area has industry so I dont know where you are getting your facts from. "Pushing the Jews into sea" might be one solution..." 04. Thanks for revealing once again your cards...You do more for the cause of Zionism than any Jew could do on their own. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Why should I answer from where the Jews came from? According to My research they came out of Palestine, killed (in hundreds of thousands) and displaced the peaceful people living in that land (for generations) and took their lands and possessions. (And this research is based on Jews early history as recorded in the book of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and Joshua, Judges etc.). And the modern day Jews did exactly that!! They swarmed from All over the world and killed and displaced hundreds of thousands of peaceful people who were living in the lands for generations and pushed them into desert. There is exact parallel in the two stories, as if they had rehearsed it to the perfection. 02. Yes once you looted some ones property, you have to act like a pragmatic. It is the other side who is nor pragmatic for asking you to return the stolen good, what a good logic! 02A. Why should Israel return to 1948 Borders? To show that they are pragmatic !! And to show that they accept UNO as an arbitrators in their affairs and that 1947 plan was acceptable to them. And believe me, one day they would beg to be allowed to retain at least 1948 borders. Now it seems to you like an insult, an abuse and a swear word!!

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03. PA will have Police and Industry and what not I think you should learn how to speak lies, your mistakes are very evident. You are more disillusioned that ABBAS himself!! 04. If you think I am helping Zionism, then you should be thankful at least the world should know that it is Zionism which is the root cause of the problem. 05. So you are giving me a self check list of finding who is threat to peace? It is comparing one local street corner toughie against a Big Mafia Leader!! A nation which launches attacks and destroys factories and industry in other countries, the one who routinely issues warning that its shall any country in the region if they try to be too powerful , whose army and police routinely demolish houses and townships for making rooms for new comers. Killing men, women and children and infants are whose every day activities. Assassination of leaders of enemy by open and secret are every day activities.

How it can be compared with those poor chaps who blow themselves up and kill only a handful, and who only fire rudimentary and outdated rockets into enemy territory. They and these professional killers are no match at all. How can we compare a street corner toughie against a Big Gang Mafia and one who has Blind Support of a Big Game Daddy!!

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[QUOTE who="Advocate"] Q. 95 It's sad that you judge Jewish people so harshly, when Jewish people and Muslims are much more alike than Christians. Who ever said anything about wanting to creates rifts? Thing is, BOTH sides contribute to this lack of communication, not just one. [/QUOTE] Ans. Seeing the records of Jewish people against Islam and Muslims and our prophet from Day-1 to this day, I have not gone too far away in my judgment. Yes I do agree that Jews are very close to Muslims in their rituals and they have a more perfect religion than what Christians have And in addition they have been given lots and lots of talents and they have taken much part in progress of science and technology and medicine and have helped mankind in more than one ways All this is in their favour, but they have two bad qualities which wash out most of their good deeds and all positive qualities: 1. They are (in general) rebellious to God and any Guidance which He sent to them thru prophets. They not only reject the message of prophets, but they plot and try to kill every prophet of God sent to them. 2. They follow a strange type of racism based on their being the Chosen race and Chosen people. This false pride makes them look down on other people and they do not propagate their religion to other people. And that is why Quran has told in the Nutshell: Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers (i.e. Muslims) will you find the Jews and Pagans (Hindus for example): and nearest among them in love to the Believers (i.e. Muslims) you will find those who say We are Christians: because amongst them (i.e. Christians) are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world and they are not arrogant (Ch 5, V 83) This single verse of Quran says so many things, which require many volumes of human books to do justice!!

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[QUOTE who="The Whiz"] Q. 96 01. Your statement remains silly. In 1950, Israel's Jewish population was less than 1,000,000. Today it is over 6,000,000. What country would accept the 6,000,000+ Jews presently living in Israel? Think before you write. 02. Another silly statement. Do you even understand what the statement 'the spoils of war' means? Didn't Khalid-bin-Walid and Saladin occupy the land they and consider it part of their kingdom? 03. You consider Islam to be true. Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Jews, etc. do not consider Mohammed a prophet. You can't convert everyone to your belief system. Signed: Ms. Whiz, not Mr. Whiz [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. How come 1,000,000 Jews in 1950 became 6,000,000 by 2012? Surely this was not a population explosion, was it? It is not easy to find out from where these extra 5 Million Jews came from? And why should any country be forced to accept these Jews? As it is they are perfect model of humanity. They are civilized and educated and believe in democracy. They are highly intelligent and (ruthless). I think that every western country would fall one over another to accept these best specimen of what a perfect human should be. I think it would come to auctioning these Jews and those who pay best prices would get a larger chunk of these sheep like Jews. You have not turned your attention to this direction otherwise this problem could be solved in a flash. 02. I know all about spoils of war, but the war has not yet ended, so we will distribute the final spoils of war once the war ended. 03. We do not force to convert any one to islam, we only deliver our message and leave the choice to them. Our job in the world is not to force any one to accept islam but see that we deliver the message and no one is forced not to accept Islam.

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We feel that Islams message is so reasonable and so moderate and so much balanced that every right thinking man or woman will be attracted to it, provided they study it with open mind and have no bias against it. PS: It is strange to mind a Ms with such an open mind on these threads. So for I have found that all Ms s are more outspoken and more forceful than the male species. You seem to be an exception, and I wish you continue with your civil and balanced outlook and way of expression. [QUOTE who="Peter"] Q. 97. Racism is generally defined as actions, practices, attitudes, or beliefs that reflect or support the racial worldview. I do not hear Jewish people on this site, saying muslims this muslims that, only you peddling racism against the Jewish people. Never heard a Jew here. Release that Muslim anger. Release that absolute Hatred for another being. You will be better off. [/QUOTE] Ans. How you can say there are no Jewish point on this thread. Many of them identified that they are Jew. And then there are their Die Hard Zionist Christian Supporters on this and all other threads. They are More Jewish than the Jews!! All this criticism (direct or indirect) is being controlled by Jews. It is strange you are unable to detect their hands behind all that. We do not have absolute anger against any one, not against Jews or Christians or Hindus. Our anger is issue based. When Jews were persecuted by Christians for most of past 2000 years, it were Muslims who gave them shelter. Now for 60 odd years Christians have turned Bosom Friends with Jews and both of them have turned against Islam and Muslims.

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We are the least racist of all religions in the world and that is why Muslims are found in every race, in every nation and in every ethnic group. I will be best off when I follow our Creators Guidelines and path showed by our prophet. Q. 98. How are Jews Racist? Ans. Jews divide humanity on the basis of who was born of Jacob, children of Jacob (Israel) are in one group and children of all other persons on earth are in another group. And now someone is trying to divide humanity based on the color of their eyes. Those having Blue eyes form one Group and those having other color of eyes. He forgot to explain how these people got blue colored eyes in the first place and what is their significance. In Islam we are told that we all are children of one pair of Humans (Adam and eve) and these outer differences are only to recognize each other and not to despise each other. But these people will discriminate humans, some one based on who was their forefather, and another one on what color are your eyes. Some may differentiate on the basis of color of your skin, curling of your hairs, how big your toenail is and more!! Islam unites humans and humanity and these people tend to divide them.

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[QUOTE who="Frijoles"] Q. 99 You didnt read my post (or you didnt understand it) I was not juggling anything b/c I wasnt trying to deemphasize anything. I was just correcting Planet Skeptics translations - He started it by quoting a whole other verse and attributing to it to the ten Commandments.... Mellow out. [/QUOTE] Ans. I did read your post and I stand by my observation that you are engaging in only wars of words. Now you understand the difficulties in translating scriptures from one language to another and how wise were Muslims to demand universal reading of Quran in its original Arabic Script. No human translation can take the place of Original Words of God. Now coming to the present discussion Sayings versus Commandments what is the big difference between the two? What God said in those sayings was not just for hearing, it was for men to comply with it and that is what is meant by Commandment (as per my limited knowledge of Practical and common sense English language). These sayings are very fundamental for building a human society in accordance with the God Wishes and that is why they are called as Ten Commandments. But Gods sayings or Commandments are not limited to these ten, there were many Sayings and Commandments from God to Moses and other prophets and they are also recorded in various places in the scripture. I hope that I have clarified the matter.. I wish you will reply after reading my post, I mean full post!!

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[QUOTE who="frijoles"] Q. 100 Exodus 20 (1) V'daber elohim at kol ha'devarim ha'aleh l'amor 1 And God spoke all these words, saying: ---------NOTE: They are introduced as SAYINGS (Devarim), not commands.... The word "commands" in Hebrew is "mitzvot". The Torah in that verse does not use the word mitzvot. The label "Ten Commandments" are a misnomer - they are really the Ten Sayings Its all Charlton Heston's fault ((SCHOLAR - this was the homework I assigned you a few days ago that you were too lazy to follow up on)) [/QUOTE] Ans. Thanks for the info, but I feel that you are just trying a verbal jugglery. If Gods Sayings are translated as Commandments what is wrong in it? Do you mean to say that God just said those things in passing? Was there no emphasis that humans should follow them? This is the verbal jugglery which I noticed in you when we were discussing about OT and TANAKH issue. Sometimes too much knowledge also acts as a barrier.

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[QUOTE who="The Advocate"] Q. 101. Funny how apparently being Jewish in the government must mean you're in cahoots with Israel, to say nothing of the Catholics in government, the Muslims in government, the Hindus in government, the Sikhs, Rastafarians, Mormons, animists/pagans, atheists...oh, the list could go on! They must all be on the Vatican's/India's/Saudi Arabia's/Midwest US/Ethiopia's side then if they belong to different denominations! The hilarity of this will never cease to amaze me!! [/QUOTE] There is un-proportionally High Number of Jews in sensitive Govt Jobs, in Media High positions, in Banks, in Stock Broker firms, in Insurance companies, in Law firms and in Think tanks than their percentage of population. This alone should have alarmed the majority of people, how come such a small group became so powerful in their country? Remember when one Arab company won the tender to run of the shipyard, how much the media created hype as if the US Govt. was to be handed over to an Arab country.....would the same hype be made if that Company was based in Israel? And on many occasions these Jews have shown that they are more loyal to Israel than to USA, they have misused their position to give wrong advice to US Govt. So it is high time, that majority population take a note of this high percentage of Jews in sensitive posts and the pressure they put in formulating Govt. polices.

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[QUOTE who="AB"] Q. 102. It is a strange occurrence indeed, but many people are beginning to unite against Zionism/Fascism globally & the tides have begun to turn. I feel good men (of all or no religions) will triumph in the end. Peace & best wishes. My prayers go out to you. [/QUOTE] Ans. You are right, despite US and Western Media being in vice like Grip of Jews and Zionists and they controlling most of Financial institutions in the World, there is some cracks in their walls. People are asking for real news and they are asking questions as to why they are being denied the truth. Truth has its power of conviction and appealing to peoples minds and hearts. What has west achieved in sucking to these Jews and Zionists for past 60 years? Has it paid back? At what cost? How much damage it has caused and how much suffering and killing and violence and acts of terrorism? Is all that worth just to support a people who do not care about others? People for whom their own homeland is worth millions being killed in one way or other? What is the root cause of all these problems? People are thinking and giving vent to their feelings. It is a small movement at present, but growing stronger. I thank you for your good wishes and support. May peace be with you.

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Chapter-5 Miscellaneous Subjects


Q103 What about Adam Lanza? I see every one pouring their hearts out for those innocent children who died at the hand of Adam Lanza. But what about Adam Lanza himself? 01. Did he face the consequence of his dastardly attack? 02. Is his suicide end of matter? 03. Is there is no difference between him and 20 innocent Children? They all died and are buried in the ground? 04. Could any Court on this earth punish Adam Lanza for his crime? Or NO PUNISHMENT is needed in such cases? Let us hear from our Atheists friends, what do they think? 05. Is it "natural and reasonable" that Adam Lanza and his victims meet the same end? 06. Once they died, their file is closed for ever? A Killer and Innocent Victim became equal after death? 07. Is that the way, this Universe is supposed to be running? 08. Why there should not be more Adam Lanza in future? Do not be shy, or philosophical about it, or release your Anti religion venom. Just think coolly, is there any way we can differentiate between Killer and his victims once they die? What your Atheist Philosophy says about it and do you have any proofs for your convictions?

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[QUOTE who="Dragnet"] Q104. You maybe right about middle men and the consequent corruption arising from that. 02 Again this all boils down to the fact that China has certain advantages in having a totalitarian form of government. . 03. China's GDP was less than India in the 1970s. 04. Other communist countries were completely state planned economies till their dissolution. Even today Cuba and North Korea are state planned economies. 05. Another thing that went in China's favor was the opening of the world markets just at the right time to give a fillip to its economy. Most of China's exports are to America and Western European nations. 06. During cold war the markets of these countries were off limits to China and other communist countries. With the abolishment of protectionist regimes and trading blocs, China has found ample space for its products. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. By asking me to comment on comparing India versus China, you are almost forcing me to be an anti India (because the current position of Extreme Nationalism and Patriotism is that you must NEVER put your country into bad light and try to defend it and try to prove it that it is the best country in the world). 02. This is a problem from which Indians have suffered since its very beginnings. Like a frog in the well, which has only seen his well and nothing else, he will think that his well is what is there in the world and the whole world is in that well. Any one who has visited India and talked to Indians, gets the same view. For them Himalaya is the Mountain in the world, Ganga and Yamuna are The rivers in the world and every thing connected with Indian soil is to worshipped. This mentality has forced Indians to be self-content with their country and do not look for better models outside. 03. Then India from its very beginning is a country with graded levels of inequality. All the people who did work with hands were placed in the backward classes and were looked down. The same trend continues today and that is why people who do hard work and work with hands are underpaid and looked down. Every one wants to do White Collar or

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Blue Collar jobs or be a middleman and should do minimum work and get maximum pay and perks. 04. Dividing society into castes and sub castes have made Indians indifferent to the pains and suffering of other Indians. If two thirds of Indians are below poverty line, the other one third feel very happy are we are above Poverty Line. If Muslims are below poverty line and lagging in development, instead of getting worried, majority of Non Muslims are not concerned and some are even Happy that Muslims are put at their place. They forget that it is India as a whole which suffers. 05. Indians are proud to show their millionaires and billionaires and Industry tycoons and super rich to show to the world that we are second to none. But they forget about the extreme poor and how hundreds of millions are not getting even basic needs. What is these Billionaires and Millionaires and super rich Cricketers worth if hundreds of millions of Indians do not get even basis needs. 06. Take the issue of democracy, every Indian is super proud to declare that India is the worlds biggest working democracy. Yes it is, but if any one wants to see all the defects of democracy they should come to India and see it! Our Politicians are one of the most corrupt and morally bankrupt lot in the world. They are involved in every type of corruptions and illegal activity and link with criminals. You cannot be a politician unless you have links with these people. A few show boys are just for show, at the ground level the muscle men rule. 07. You are giving all excuses for how and why China outpaced India in development, but you never accepted that Chinese and more hardworking, more dedicated and there is not this much graded inequality in their system . When India got independence from British, it was in a better shape in education, industry, infrastructure than China. 08. It got help from all countries to establish Universities, Engineering and Medical colleges and access to Western technology than China. China was banned from all Western world and its place was taken by Taiwan in UNO and other International bodies. 09. Chinese did not spent that period by weeping over wrong attitude of Western nations but they concentrated on their development and improving basic infrastructure. There might not been super rich and heroes in China but there were not extreme poors also. That is why, when the western sanctions were lifted, China with its improved infrastructure and disciplined workforce flooded the world with their cottage goods.

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And slowly it went for low tech and medium tech products and will soon enter into high tech market. 10. India went on developing Super Cricketers and IPL and AMBANIS, and going into ecstasy at winning Cricket World Cup of 2011. While China coolly digested its 50 Odd Gold Medals in Olympics. India wants to show to every one that we are World Power. While every one recognizes that China is a World Power. This is nutshell is difference between India and China!! [QUOTE who="Dragnet"] Q104. You maybe right about middle men and the consequent corruption arising from that. 02 Again this all boils down to the fact that China has certain advantages in having a totalitarian form of government. . 03. China's GDP was less than India in the 1970s. 04. Other communist countries were completely state planned economies till their dissolution. Even today Cuba and North Korea are state planned economies. 05. Another thing that went in China's favor was the opening of the world markets just at the right time to give a fillip to its economy. Most of China's exports are to America and Western European nations. 06. During cold war the markets of these countries were off limits to China and other communist countries. With the abolishment of protectionist regimes and trading blocs, China has found ample space for its products. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. By asking me to comment on comparing India versus China, you are almost forcing me to be an anti India (because the current position of Extreme Nationalism and Patriotism is that you must NEVER put your country into bad light and try to defend it and try to prove it that it is the best country in the world). 02. This is a problem from which Indians have suffered since its very beginnings. Like a frog in the well, which has only seen his well and nothing else, he will think that his well is what is there in the world and the whole world is in that well.

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Any one who has visited India and talked to Indians, gets the same view. For them Himalaya is the Mountain in the world, Ganga and Yamuna are The rivers in the world and every thing connected with Indian soil is to worshipped. This mentality has forced Indians to be self-content with their country and do not look for better models outside. 03. Then India from its very beginning is a country with graded levels of inequality. All the people who did work with hands were placed in the backward classes and were looked down. The same trend continues today and that is why people who do hard work and work with hands are underpaid and looked down. Every one wants to do White Collar or Blue Collar jobs or be a middleman and should do minimum work and get maximum pay and perks. 04. Dividing society into castes and sub castes have made Indians indifferent to the pains and suffering of other Indians. If two thirds of Indians are below poverty line, the other one third feel very happy are we are above Poverty Line. If Muslims are below poverty line and lagging in development, instead of getting worried, majority of Non Muslims are not concerned and some are even Happy that Muslims are put at their place. They forget that it is India as a whole which suffers. 05. Indians are proud to show their millionaires and billionaires and Industry tycoons and super rich to show to the world that we are second to none. But they forget about the extreme poor and how hundreds of millions are not getting even basic needs. What is these Billionaires and Millionaires and super rich Cricketers worth if hundreds of millions of Indians do not get even basis needs. 06. Take the issue of democracy, every Indian is super proud to declare that India is the worlds biggest working democracy. Yes it is, but if any one wants to see all the defects of democracy they should come to India and see it! Our Politicians are one of the most corrupt and morally bankrupt lot in the world. They are involved in every type of corruptions and illegal activity and link with criminals. You cannot be a politician unless you have links with these people. A few show boys are just for show, at the ground level the muscle men rule. 07. You are giving all excuses for how and why China outpaced India in development, but you never accepted that Chinese and more hardworking, more dedicated and there is not this much graded inequality in their system . When India got independence from British, it was in a better shape in education, industry, infrastructure than China.

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08. It got help from all countries to establish Universities, Engineering and Medical colleges and access to Western technology than China. China was banned from all Western world and its place was taken by Taiwan in UNO and other International bodies. 09. Chinese did not spent that period by weeping over wrong attitude of Western nations but they concentrated on their development and improving basic infrastructure. There might not been super rich and heroes in China but there were not extreme poors also. That is why, when the western sanctions were lifted, China with its improved infrastructure and disciplined workforce flooded the world with their cottage goods. And slowly it went for low tech and medium tech products and will soon enter into high tech market. 10. India went on developing Super Cricketers and IPL and AMBANIS, and going into ecstasy at winning Cricket World Cup of 2011. While China coolly digested its 50 Odd Gold Medals in Olympics. India wants to show to every one that we are World Power. While every one recognizes that China is a World Power. This is nutshell is difference between India and China!! [QUOTE who="Dragnet"] Q 105. Now look, I'm not holding a brief for any country. But facts cannot be presented selectively, or else you would be open to the accusation of indulging in cherry picking. Let's look at the strong points of Chinese temperament. Chinese as a race are indeed more disciplined, more amenable to co-operate in team spirit and more respectful of authority and hierarchy than Indians. This may have something to do with their Confucian value system that they may have imbibed into their daily life style. Apart from this, the Chinese society has far more homogeneity which lends to them a greater sense of cohesiveness. This advantage is not there for the Indians, I suppose. But all this should not blind our eyes to the underbelly of Chinese economy. [/QUOTE] Ans. Just praising China in some respect does not mean that I am an ardent fan of China and blindly follow them in every thing and in their every philosophy.

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I was just comparing about the progress made by China in every field in which they have entered. No doubt discipline is the basic requirement, but it is not the only requirement. India during Emergency tried it hand at the discipline but it proved ineffective because those maintaining discipline had their own interests in mind and not the country. Chinese might be ruthless in curbing industrial unrest, but so were all those communist countries in their hey days, how come they could not compete with the rest of world in manufacturing section? I can say that in China the numbers of Middle men would be much less than we see in India. In India people generally are not interested in Hard work as they are interested in middle man role or acting as a Manager. That is why we find Number of MBA s that come out in India being more than the number of Business that they will Manage!! These IIT s and IIM s produce High Class executives for world and not for India. We teach them and others use them, I doubt if China also follows the same attitude. Then another point is selfish foreign policy of India. India has no friendship with any of its neighbors. Nepal the Only Hindu country of the world is more at peace with China than with India. Even the Tiny Sri Lanka complains of Indian interference in its internal affairs. The way India ditched Iraq and Iran and Qatar and made friendship with Israel shows its biased foreign policy. USA has shown India carrot of UN Security Council seat with Veto Power and India is ready to sell its soul for that. What Israel can teach India and why India should be so eager to do and expand its business with that tiny country is some thing which I cannot understand. When millions of Indians are working in gulf countries and sending billions of Dollars in foreign exchange to India, is it not in Indian interest to at least tread a cautious path, but anti Islam and anti Muslim lobby in India is forcing our democratic Govt. to improve its economy by learning from Isreal These are the roles and twists which show the fleeting nature of Indian politics and how immoral it has become. And what I said about foreign policy is true about Indian industry also, and that is why they do not have any permanent friend and not able to compete in real world. PS:

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I am sure, our patriotic and nationalistic gang would call me anti Indian and that I surrender my Indian Passport!! [QUOTE who="NT"] Q 106. It is currently against the public interest as in the two witnesses to each others attempts to legally divorce each other from their marriage so for the court not to see this is a travesty in their justice system. [/QUOTE] Ans. It is the self assumed position that courts intervention in every divorce is for public interest. And it is this thought that has made divorce cases so tedious and so time consuming. Law has made its own assumption of cooling off period, which is against reason and logic. Divorce is a family matter just like the marriage. So the first attempt would be to solve it at the family level. If marriages are dissolved by mutual consent and without courts interventions, there is nothing wrong in it. If no consensus is reached during mutual discussions, then one party can approach courts. But by making the courts intervention mandatory, they are creating lots of hardship to the divorcing couples and there is no shortage of cases where they are pending for 5-10 years. I do not know in whose public interest are such delays? Certainly not in the interests of the parties involved. May be they are not public?

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[QUOTE who=" "] Q 107. What is Dogging? [/QUOTE] Ans. Signs of Developing Human Societies- MUQ Dogging (sexual slang) From Wikepdia, the free encyclopaedia Dogging is a British English euphemism for engaging in sexual acts in a public or semi-public place or watching others doing so.[1] There may be more than two participants; both group sex and gang banging can be included. As observation is encouraged, voyeurism and exhibitionism are closely associated with dogging. The two sets of people involved often meet either randomly or (increasingly) arrange to meet up beforehand over the Internet.[2] Dogging started in the later part of the 20th century, in the UK, with locations mainly being public car parks and lay-bys (usually on quiet country roads) with activity normally taking place after dark. Doggers would usually leave their interior lights on in their cars so that other doggers would know that they too were doggers. Some would flash their headlights at other cars or flick the interior light on-and-off briefly. These are the most common signs to show that one is a dogger, and are also the signs used by gay men who use lay-bys as cruising grounds for sexual activity. Many dogging locations are used by both straight doggers and gay men. In September 2003 the BBC[3] reported on the 'new' dogging craze. They cited the Internet and text messaging as very common ways of organising meetings. The original definition of dogging and which is still a closely related activity is spying on couples having sex in a car or other public place.[4] There is some evidence on the Internet that the 'craze' has recently begun to spread to other countries, such as the U.S., Canada, Ireland, Australia, Barbados, Brazil, the Netherlands, Norway,[5] Poland,[6] Sweden,[7] and New Zealand.[8]

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[QUOTE who="Eric"]<quoted text> Q 108 Absolutely. Homosexuality is found in every culture. Therefore, it is natural. Homosexuality is found in every specie. Therefore, it is natural. Monogamy has proven to be the foundation of civilization. Other species that practice monogamy have proven to be more staple.[/QUOTE] If that is your analogy then Crimes and Murder and Rapes and Adultery and Robbery , Theft , Lying and Cheating are also found in EVERY Culture and in EVERY society. So they are also natural and those involved in these activities must be given the same protection as other people who do not do such acts. I do not know what sort of logic you people use. There are Perverts and Criminals in every society, no one treats them or gives them the same respect as it gives to the normal law abiding and non pervert people. Homosexuals were always treated as perverts in every society and even in western society not a long time ago. I do not know what type of evolution is that where very pervert is being treated as "natural" and given the same protection as common people. And the fact that this is happening when science and technology has reached its pinnacle, is all the more surprising. It seems that immorality and perversion is the price our society is paying for progress in science and technology.

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[QUOTE who="Frijoles"] Q 109 You are side stepping my point. Our society offers choice. Choice is not compulsion. And yes, we do have defenders of civil liberty, even when it is an unpopular issue. Don't for a minute think that the Burka hides anything other than a woman's eyes. You would know that from your country. When I saw that woman in a burka jogging, I could still see her breasts jiggle. Its not about modesty - its about a statement. 2. Lots of people marry and don't have children. Lots of people marry and adopt children. Are those couples harming society? Have you ever offered your own sperm for examination? Are you sure you are not harming society thru lack of numbers, or lack of motility? Should every male be tested and then condemned if so? Furthermore, even if gay people were harming society by their lack of contraception, there is a remedy already in place. Gay couples can adopt. And many do. SO where is the harm? MUQ Why don't you wear a Burka? Why are you immodest? [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Question of Choice: There is nothing in the world like totally free choice. When you live in a society, you undergo part of your freedom and choice. When you become national of a country, you forgo a part of your choice, this is a fundamental issue. So if reasonable restrictions are put on your freedom because of your society and the country you live in, they should be acceptable. In your society you have very little freedom in many things (like you have only TWO political parties and your choices are very limited, you have very little freedom in economical matters etc). But when it comes to morality, you are given too much freedom.

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There is no balance in your approach. B. Burka only hides eyes: This is another mischievous angle of your argument. Islamic Hijab prevents the body and beauty of women from strangers. Since the working place of women is inside her house, when she comes out, she protects her body from prying eyes. C. Childless couples versus Homosexual couples: I do not know if you raise this issue seriously or are just joking. A childless couple try their level best and do all in their power to have children. If they are unable to have it, due to so many reasons, no one should find fault with them. Like there are so many people who are unemployed. But can you compare one who is qualified and tries his level best to get a job but does not get any, to one who just sits idle in his house and neither has qualifications not any skill to find a job. How can they be compared? To compare a childless couple against a homosexual couple is like comparing oranges with thorny bushes. D. I am against homosexuality ONLY because of religious reasons: This is another of your assumptions. What is religion? Rules to live a happy life which is approved by your Creator. You have to prove to me that my religious arguments against homosexuality are illogical and unreasonable. You just cannot wiggle out by brushing aside my arguments and saying that they are based on religion. E. Burka for men!! I am glad you raised this point!! In Islam there is burka for both men and women!! And Quran first speaks Burka for men and THEN for women.

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In Chapter 18, verse 30 on this subject, it starts with men And say to believing men to lower their gazes and guard their private parts. And then verse 31 provides for Burka for women!! And say to believing women to lower their gazes and safeguard their private parts. There is however different limits of Burka for men and women depending on their roles in the society: 1. For men the Burka is from navel to the knee joint. These parts are not to be exposed by any man to another man or woman. 2. For women the burka is their entire body. So I do wear Islamic Burqa when I go out into the public!!

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Q. 110 Some Little Known Facts about Human Body: 1. Nose: Our Nose can detect upto 50,000 different scents! 2. Face: Facial hairs grow faster than any other hair on human body (for males to say and every one who shaves knows that by experience) !! 3. Brain : More than 80 Percent of Brain is water (Saying that someone has water in his brains is actually true literally!!) 4. Head: There are approximately 100,000 hairs on average human head (what fun those baldies are having, less luggage more comfort) 5. Ears: The smallest bone in human body is located in the middle ear; it is only 2.8 mm long!! 6. Tongue: Every human has a Unique tongue print like finger print, In life time human produce about 28,000 Liters of Saliva 7. Heart: Our heart pumps 9,000 liters of Blood every day. 8. Lungs: Our left lung is slightly shorter than our right lung (to accommodate Heart!!, how lucky are our Urdu Poets, who loose their heart every once in a while, so lungs can feel free!!) 9. Stomach : Our stomach lining is changed every three or four days. (To protect from all those acids used during digestive process). 10. Blood Vessels: There are about 96,000 Km of blood vessels in our body. 11. Skin:

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Humans shed around 600,000 particles of skin every day that accounts for 1 Kg of skin each year. 12. Feet: Our feet have 500,000 Sweat glands that can produce around 1 liter of sweat a day. 13: Toenails: Finger nails grow around four times faster than toenails. 14: Finger nails: Grow faster on the hands that you right with and the growth is fastest on the middle finger. 15. Intestine: Small intestine is about 4 times larger than the human height, approx 7 Meter in length. 16. Child and Bones: A human child is born with 350 bones, as they grow, some bones merge and an adult has only 206 bones (That is why children as so soft and cuddly?) 17. Bacteria: There are about 32 Million Bacterias on every square inch of human skin!! But Most of them are harmless. Source: www.canoe.ca Morals: 1. There are many more such facts about human body, and show how delicate and complicated is human body. 2. All these parts work in perfect harmony in a healthy human body. We are unaware of them and only complain when some thing does not work. 3. But what about the healthy condition? Most of our lives are spent in healthy state, do we thank our Creator for our health and can we really? Our prophet (peace be on him) said, There are two gifts (which are very common) but most people are unaware of them, good health and free time

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4. Evolution: could all these be the result of a blind, dumb and deaf evolution process? Those who have Brains (and not Only water on their brains) should ponder!! [QUOTE who="KK"] Q 111 I can prove it, and I have proven it. Life expectancy to 79 years, more than 1960 by almost a decade: Violent crimes have been on a steady decline since 1970, with a massive drop in the 1980s, correlating to the rise in popularity of video games and the advent of the internet. Search the FBI stats. .. Disease has almost been conquered. Genomics is seeking more ways to extend our life spans beyond the internal calendars. We have reached the stars with our machines and technology, though we still need to work on getting ourselves out there more. We have explored worlds beyond our reach. .. So put up, or shut up. Where is your evidence that life is worse? [/QUOTE] Ans. Thanks for Optimism and paying glowing tributes to the status of science and technology. You have painted a very glowing picture of the world we live in and in the direction we are going. It never pays to be a pessimist, but anyone calling for caution and showing us the reality is not always a pessimist but a realist. So let me post some of the negative aspects of our progress on materialistic front: 01. Human beings are getting more violent and more intolerant towards each other. They are more ready to abuse each other than it was the case when I was growing up. 02. The material progress is made at the cost of loosing spiritualism. Our bodies are healthy but our souls are sick and that can be measured by the growing rates of suicides and mental sickness. These cases are highest in countries where standard of

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living is also highest, this shows that mere physical conditions are not solution for happiness of humans. 03. There is a gradual but consistent increase in immorality. With each passing day the standard of morality is going down. There is hardly any moral issue which is under preview of Govt. or Court or Parliament. It is left to individual themselves and not enforceable. 04. The world is becoming a great stockpile of Most Dangerous of Arms ever manufactured in entire Human History. Certainly they are not for show. One can see as if huge stocks of most inflammable liquid being stored in huge tanks. They are just waiting for a disaster to strike. 05. There is a huge imbalance between those who have and those who have not, even in the richest country of the world. 06. There is a mad race to get rich and invent some thing new..man is becoming a machine and acting like machines.and how come machines have fun and pleasure? 06. The peace and tranquility only comes from the Remembrance of God and God is the word which does not exist in the vocabulary of our Modern Human Being who is Up to date in Worldly affairs. 06A. You say disease has been conquered, it is news to me, once you conquer one disease, ten take its place, there are more specialists medical field than there are mere physicians. And in the end every one born dies, who conquered what? 07. You said, this is the best time to be alive, I say look at the suicide rate in your country, why so many people do not see eye to eye with you? Q 112. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ All-night revision for exam? Sleep on it

NEW DELHI: Staying up all night to revise your exam syllabus just one more time might not be a great idea after all. Far from brushing up your memory, it might lead you to forget most of what you learned. Recent research by the School of Life Sciences (SLS) in Jawaharlal Nehru University has revealed that sleep plays a significant role in encoding information and retaining what is learned through the day. So after a day of cramming, if you are sleepdeprived, chances are you will remember very little.

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The research team led by Dr Sushil Jha found that rats deprived of sleep for six hours just after learning a task couldn't perform the same task well the next day while the other group that got adequate sleep replicated it. The laboratory is now working on establishing that learning, in turn, changes sleep pattern. "Yes, if you have gone through any kind of training or learning, you may sleep more. This is not because you are tired but because memory consolidation needs proper sleep. Sleep also activates the brain's protein synthesis machinery which helps consolidate memory. Further, sleep helps in brain development, which is why babies sleep more," said Jha, assistant professor of neuroscience at SLS. He added that this was the first time in India that research showed sleep deprivation impaired trace-learning in rats. Recent research from the University of Notre Dame also shows that going to sleep shortly after learning new material is most beneficial for recall. The study was performed with 207 students and concluded that recall was best when students slept for sometime right after lessons. "If a person is stressed then the retrieval phenomenon of memories is also impaired. The health of the person is also compromised if he/she does not get proper sleep. That is why most people who are sleep deprived also tend to suffer from hypertension, diabetes, obesity and insomnia. These health conditions are related," he added. Another recent study by the group published in 'Frontiers in Neurology' looks at the function of rapid eye m(REM) sleep state in maintaining a long spell of sleep. The study suggests that when one is in deep sleep (non-REM sleep), breathing rate goes down and that is why CO2 level increases in the body. REM sleep eliminates excess CO2 from the body and helps maintain uninterrupted sleep. PS: (MUQ) That might explain why our BABUS and MP s and MLA s and High Officials sleep during their working time !! (MUQ)

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[QUOTE who="Advocate"] Q 113. 01. You can't really make a true comparison between having a relationship and cheating on your spouse, you know. Having a girl/boyfriend is simply a step in a relationship after friendship, and before commitment. 02. Besides, cheaters don't define the rest of the world's population that has a girl/boyfriend. And who said that having a relationship before marriage always includes sex? Maybe people cuddle, maybe people do heavy petting, maybe people just kiss, and others are celibate before marriage. 03. It's not the concept of a relationship that is bad, it's stupid people who don't know how to commit. That's what cheating is. Dating is a healthy social concept. In fact, my second steady girlfriend is now my wife and we have two lovely children together~ PS -- stuff can spontaneously combust anyways. Trust me on this. This happened to one of my compost piles because we hadn't aerated it properly. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. When you take a first wrong step that is the starting point of deviation. How far you go astray depends on how much you follow on the wrong way. 02. It is beauty of Islam that it removes the temptation from the beginning itself, so there would be no future complications at a later stage. 03. In Western system (and all other man made systems for that matter) they place every temptation in front of people, and THEN expect them to walk in the straight way. 04. There are gambling joints, there are musical parties, there are bars, dancing , free mixing of sexes, alcohol flowing like water, there are strip tease joints, live shows and every other way to "trip" a normal human being. And then they boast 'See I did not get affected by all these" and "I am still as pure as snow" May be you are, but what about 99 others who have fallen prey to the temptations? 05. The "Rules and Laws" are made in the overall interest of society and keeping the well being of majority of people and not for a small percentage of "Strong willed people".

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06. As has been demonstrated that majority of humans "misuse" the opportunity when they mix with opposite sex, especially when they are alone and have some "power" over them. 06A. And it has been demonstrated many times over that it does not only include poor or less educated people, but people even in the Highest rank of Society, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Ministers, Priests, and Bishops, Heads of MNC s, Law Makers, Judges and every other rank are involved in "shady sexual relationships". 07. All due to this "wrong concept" of women freedom and freedom to choice. 08. That is why Islam has closed this door completely and does not recommend free mixing of males and females. It bans all sexual relationships unless it is thru marriage bonds. It does not create temptations in the path of humans and then "assume" that they will not fall into it. 09. All your reasoning and logic, are for discussion sake, the results from field do not support it. All this dating and getting to "know" your life partner before you tie the knot, has resulted in millions of illicit sexual relations and millions of babies born outside marriage bond. So much so that numbers of children born outside marriage are more than those born inside marriage bond. In many cases the couples marry while the female is carrying child of her "future husband". Do not tell me that I do not know what happens in your society. 10. The problem is, after spoiling YOUR system totally, you are looking towards us and FORCE us to follow your practices and ruin our society also. PS: You have chosen "advocate" as your Pseudo Name, "Devil's Advocate" should be better alternative.

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[QUOTE who="NT"] Q 114 I have read your words of disdain for other lands. [/QUOTE] Ans. I do not know in which connection you made this comment. But what you mentioned is very fundamental, and I have my own views on that. 01. In our Modern times, Nations have taken the place of idols, which people used to worship in the past. Whatever rites and sacrifices people used to perform in front of their old idols now are performed before their New Idols i.e. their nations!! 02. No crime is a crime if it is done in the name of protecting your Nation, no injustice is injustice if performed in the name of your nation. 03. Their Political Leaders and those in charge cheat, murder, plunder and exploit and plan destruction of millions of people, just for the sake of Security and safety and Economic well being of their Nations. 04. My nation, right or wrong is always right, is the slogan of these Nationalist and Patriotic people. This wrong notion of Extreme nationalism and patriotism has already plunged world into two World Wars and there is always looming the threat of one or more World wars. 05. Islam is the strict monotheist religion and it broke every idol that existed in their society and that is why Islam is also against this Modern Idol of Nation. 06. We are divided into nations and tribes, not that we take these nations and their safety and security even above our Creator and do every sort of crimes and inequity just for the sake of well being or safety of our nation. 07. We find the true position of Nation and Patriotism in the life of our prophet. He was born in Makkah and was very much attached to Makkah and its surroundings, however when the Makkah people made his life unbearable in those thirteen years of his mission, he was forced to flee the city (his Nation) in the wee hours of morning:

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When he was outside Makkah he looked back and said O Makkah you are dear to me from all lands, if your people had not turned me out, I would not have left you 08. That is why We Muslims love, respect and revere our nation, but we do not worship it. We are not so attached to it, that we shall condone every injustice, cheating, oppression and tyranny done in the name of our Nation. 09. But there would be many people on this thread who would consider my views as Anti National and against Patriotism . These reactions would show that they have taken their country as their god!! [QUOTE who="Ed Sed"] Q 1115. A good education encourages appropriate humility. Knowledge brings only knowledge. Rudeness is one aspect of behaviour and that is determined by our nature and nurture. In a truly free society it is extremely difficult to remove all rude behaviour and language from every single individual. Topix is particularly prone to bad behaviour and the ignorant. As usual, religion helps nothing. [/QUOTE] Ans. You have said very correct things. Current education system only brings knowledge and does not say any thing about rudeness. It is religion and religious teachings that teach people morals and values and how to behave with your colleagues, your elders and your juniors and how to behave in the society. A good religious education should cultivate these values in you, otherwise you only have religious education, just like people have secular education. We have samples of both type on these threads, people who have abundance of Secular education and are very rude and foul mouthed. And we have those people who claim to have abundance of Religious education and are very rude and boastful in their posts.

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However people who have abundance of Secular Education and are polite and kind in their speech are very few and on the same way, those who have good religious education and are kind and guarded in their speech and writings are also very few.

[QUOTE who="Advocate"] Q 116 01. I say precisely that because a secular court does not base itself on favoritism or religious law. It is objective and bases itself on evidence, testimony, credence, and a solid case, rather than "immorality." To say that a "Creator" made laws is speculative. Do you have any solid proof that a creator exists? A secular court listens to everyone's statement, be they religious or atheistic. A religious court is itself a pro - religion bias. 02. The Arab World is the union of areas in the Middle East/ North Africa that proclaims itself to be based on Muslim law. One doesn't need to be Arab to be Muslim -- Indonesia and Malaysia have large Muslim populations -- for them it's a matter of geographic convenience. And Sunni KSA is still at odds with Shi'a Iran, revealing the large divisions in the Arab World itself. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. And who told you Shariah laws are not based on evidence, testimony, credence and a solid case? The rules for testimony and evidence in Shariah are more logical and reasonable than so called Secular laws. Why it is speculative to say that Creator made the laws? Did humans came into existence by themselves? Can any thing come into existence without a Creator? If you see a painting or a car standing in market, can you ever think that it came without an artist or a Car Maker? In Shariah law also, evidence is accepted from even Atheists, depending upon the case, there is no pre-religious bias unless it be a matter of religious importance. In Quran Muslims are advised to do justice and equity to all people and do not do injustice even if they are following different religions. 02. Now you back tracked and included Africa into Arab world, what about Indian subcontinent and whole belt from Turkey to Central Asia? Are they also part of Arab world?

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And if Muslims have Shia and Sunni, do not Christians have their RC, Protestants and thousands of other Sects and Denominations? It is strange for you to lecture us on sects and denominations!! Your name id advocate, but it seems that you are Devil's Advocate and not on the side of justice and reason and logic!! [QUOTE who="Concerned"] Q 117 There are good and bad in each race of people so stop branding that all Serbs are bad. Maybe the Serbs should open up a corridor to Northern Europe and let the Northern European countries deal with the conflict of terrorism and what ever comes with that. The Serbs will never convert or give up their Christian religion for any politics or under pressure from the world. It is unfortunate today that not many religions can tolerate each other That is the issue. Unless you have been in a concentration camp you will never understand society or politics. Many Serbs were killed during ww2 defending their land and people and this is what all generations there after are scared of So muq thats why Serbs fight to keep aware from being made in human traffic of organs [/QUOTE] Ans. I have nothing against Serbs as such, since their names appeared as reason for WW-1 and WW-2 and that conflict in Bosnia and Kosovo, I made some remarks. I do not know who was forcing these Serbs to give up their Christian religion and that they are Better or More observing Christians than other European nations. Considering that for many decades they were part of Communist Yugoslavia, I do not know what type of Communist Christianity they were following. But they are very ruthless people is what I got from seeing what they did during Bosnian conflict I do not know if Jesus allowed such type of atrocities. But as you said there are good people and bad people in every nation and every religion, so may be Serbs have more bad people than other nations of Europe.

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[QUOTE who="Scarab"] Q 118. Muq as usual you only post history according to Muq!! I guess that makes it easier for you to maintain your "poise" The history of world slavery is well recorded form the origins of writing in Mesopotamia. Slaves were brought to the Americas by the Europeans who discovered it. It is also true that it pre-existed that discovery in the native (Indian)populations. The U.S. 14th Amendment ratified in 1868 prohibits slavery. I've already posted concerning our Civil War! This 14th Amendment was supported by the Bill of Rights insisted on by James Madison in 1789 before he would support Ratification of our Constitution. That Bill of Rights was an evolutions from English Law demanding human rights established in 1689. [/QUOTE] Ans. You have tried to Sugar coat your true position with regards to slavery. You have not contradicted what I said: 1. None of the Worlds religions prohibited slavery and said any thing against it. 2. None of any of the worlds Constitution also said anything against slavery till the 19th or 20th Century. 3. In USA and in the rest of the world the practice of slavery was prevalent. 4. The Father of Nation of USA (George Washington) and all important leaders of Freedom Movement did have slaves in their possession and NONE of them freed any slave after signing US constitution in 1776. 5. So your saying that Slavery was ONLY practiced in south is wrong. In south it was MORE prevalent because of Economic conditions there. They needed slaves to work in cotton fields and other jobs in south which was not needed for North. 6. Slavery was banned only in 1868 after Civil War, in which Slavery was an issue and not the ONLY issue. 7. British Charter of 1689 had nothing for abolition of slavery, because slaves were being brought to USA by British people long after that. And even after abolition of slavery, black people in USA continued to experience discrimination and hatred which has not been totally Abolished even after passage of 150 years.

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And do you know what happened to those Muslim Slaves? Can any one find them now? How easily they have blended into Muslim society once their were freed. While Europeans and American built different churches for white people and black people. Muslims built their mosques where both black and white and brown could pray together and stand shoulder to shoulder. I know, no nation or people would agree that they had anything to do with slavery in the past and they try to circumvent the whole issue and talk about side lines. As per my understanding slavery was a need of human civilization, that was needed before the invention of Machines. Once the machines were invented, dependence of Human labor decreased and the economic factor of using slaves dwindled and that led to the abolition of slavery from the world. [QUOTE who="GT"] Q 119 Hello sir, I am really happy to know the fact you understand the mental state of the suppressed minority!!!!!!!! But sir we love our Muslim friends anywhere in the world!!!!!!! You better ask any Muslims in North and East whether they like Sinhalese or Tamils better?????????? They will firmly take the stand that they prefer Tamils to Sinhalese!!!!!!!! Muslims are our friends!!!!!!!! But LTTE was against the it. They were therefore named terrorists!!!!!! So they were simply killed by GOSL forces. We have no problem with that. What about the innocent 50, 000 minority Tamils who were mercilessly butchered along with ltte in the last phase of the war?????????? Sir, 50, 000 is not something very simple and trivial to be turned down easily!!!!!!!

[/QUOTE] Ans. I thank you sister for good sentiments you expressed regarding Muslims. As a Muslim we were not party to this Tamil and Singhalese disputes, but I know that Muslims in SL were targeted by both the groups as to why they did not support one or the other.

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As a Muslim, I do not take any side and I speak truth and I think you need some one who is neutral and not emotionally biased towards any one party. Do not think that I do not know that many innocent Tamils were killed especially during the last phase of the war. I have sympathy with those who were killed and I also know that this is what happens, many innocent people loose their lives. We Muslims believe that once you die that is not the end of story, we have to be raised up and both killer and the victim would stand before their Creator and answer for their deeds. Innocent man will get his revenge on the last day. I do not know what Tamils and Singhalese believe about that. I do not know what is your age, but I am following this LTTE since we heard its name during 1970 s. When LTTE was formed, there were many Tamil organization, who were demanding Tamil Elam and rights for Tamils, they were mostly peaceful and trying to get their rights true peaceful means. This LTTE first exterminated all those groups and assassinated many of their leaders and emerged themselves as Sole Representative of Tamil People. And they did not give any chance to peace and negotiation, instead they wanted to liberate Tamil Elam thru force. They did every thing but they could not succeed. I am sure that they got help from Tamils of India also, but they did a blunder in 1991, when they assassinated Rajiv Gandhi , Ex PM of India. Because of that they lost all political support from India and that was the death knell in their coffin. Sister, I do not know how much is your study, but since I am Indian and there are many such movements and outfits who are doing similar things in India also. But I will tell you, force and war is not the way to solve any problem. Tamils and Singhalese were living in SL for many centuries together, why not go back to old days. You can win your enemy by love and peace and never by hate and hatred. If you are interested , I could relate to you some of the stories from India about these many groups. But let me tell you, I am not against you and say that Tamils have no problems living in SL, being an Indian Muslim, we also face similar situation. So I have sympathy with you.but in my view LTTE type approach is harmful only to Tamils and not that much to Singhalese. I wish and hope that wise counsel prevails. PS: And USA will not be your long term friend. Mind my words.

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Q 120 . US school shooting: Tearful Barack Obama calls for 'meaningful action' http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/ WASHINGTON: A tearful President Barack Obama said US leaders must "take meaningful action'' regardless of politics in response to the mass shooting at a Connecticut elementary school. The president teared up, at times using an index finger to wipe at the corner of his eyes, as he addressed the nation from the White House. He also paused repeatedly as he struggled to keep his composure while speaking of the children, ages 5 to 10, who had died and the life milestones they now would miss. He said, quote, "Our hearts are broken.'' Shortly before speaking, Obama ordered that US flags be flown at half-staff on public grounds through Tuesday. Comments (from MUQ): So now the "Recently elected Lame Duck President" has asked to take "Meaningful Response" on that school shooting Incident. Let us see different scenarios and the "Meaningful Response" that one could take: A. The Killing was from a Missile or Bomb Attack from any Muslim country in the world: Meaningful Response: Launch a full scale war on that country and bring it to "Middle ages" in four or five days. There is no limit on the response. Use any weapons, use Carpet Bombing B. The Killing was from a Missile attack or Bomb Attack but the country was Isreal: Meaningful Response: It must have been a mistake, otherwise USA never expects that a "friendly nation" like Isreal would do such a heinous crime. President of USA has "personally asked" the HE the President of Isreal to issue a "written and signed apology" that such an incident shall never be repeated in future. And Israel planes and Missiles shall not treat USA as an "enemy country". They should plan and execute their "training missions" in so many Non Civilized countries in their neighborhood.

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C. The Killing was done by members of any Islamic group: Meaningful Response: Impose an "immediate ban" on that Group, and arrest all its members, launch a "punitive Air Strikes" against is head quarters in any country it would be. Send all the arrested persons to GITMO camp, so they be nor covered any US or International law and hold them captive till they die or commit suicide. D. The Killing is done by Members of any Extremist Jewish or Christian Group: Meaningful Response: The President has "personally asked" US Surgeon General to send a team of "Imminent Mental Doctors" to talk to these people and find out real reason of this "Extremist behaviour". It is hoped that after an extensive session, most people would see the light and turn the corner and join the main stream. E. The killing is done by a Single Person which has a Muslim sounding name: Meaningful Response: It is these Muslim Migrants who are spoiling our peaceful country. We should stop all immigration of Muslim people to USA. And those Muslims who are in USA must be kept under strict watch. Their mosques and their assembly halls must be kept under surveillance round the clock. And Govt. alone cannot do this job (because there are so many Muslims in USA), so we request our peaceful citizens to keep a watch on movement of these Muslims and take proper action or inform police in case they observe any "suspicious movements".the dedicated numbers to take these calls are 91111 (1000 Lines) F. If the killing was done by a Jewish or Christian sounding Person: Meaningful Response: This was a savage act by an Individual with a sick mentality. It is not the fault of our system. We are investigating as to what provoked such a "nice man" to take this "Extreme step". We have sympathy to the family members of the accused person who lost one member of their family in such a painful manner. May God have mercy on his soul, our Christian values tell us not to condemn the Criminal but the Crimeas Jesus said..blah, blah, blah

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Conclusion: And the killings go on as usual, there have been so many incidents in the past, but they will be forgotten. Only the ones in which any Muslim or Muslim organization was accused to be involved, would be played again and again , just like an old record.

[QUOTE who="Arbitrageur"] Q 121 In a controlled demolition, though, the top twenty floors of the tower does not tilt over at a 20 degree angle, and it is apparent from the video archives of the event that the lower floors, let's say 70 floors, as an example, did not get blown. They were crushed. The whole building was not blown at the same time, that's obvious. Terrible demolition job. You really want to blow the base first, not the top of the building. Are you saying that they were incompetent? [/QUOTE] Ans. The idea that top floors collapsed and brought down the lower floors along with them, was the one which was perceived as the simplest and most obvious to most people. This is what is known as Pan Cake effect. But the slightest knowledge of Physics and Structural Engineering made that type of fall, not fit to explain the fall of WTC towers, because the bottom 80 odd floors, were not damaged and each successive floor would observe resistance and the resulting fall could never be vertical. Some floors would be damaged due to pressure and then the whole structure would topple to one direction and break in the middle. That is why NIST and other agencies never mentioned that possibility in their reports. Massive steel columns just do not split due to weight.

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Now your question that Bottom Floors give way first in a normal controlled demolition might be true (I am not expert on Controlled demolition). That might be true in Normal or Ordinary controlled demolition. And 9/11 in no way was an ordinary or routine job and the persons doing were not one of routine demolition contractor. The Aircraft Striking tower was to be the center piece of Demolition Job. So the tower has to start falling from the top floors and then collapse to the bottom to make it a real job. And that is where those Super Thermites and the controlled demolition came in handy. And there was some connection of that job with WTC-7, that is why that building also had to collapse once WTC went down so as to remove all evidence. And the rest was to clean and wash the site and quickly remove all dust and recycle all steel from the site.so that all evidence would be gone from the site. And that was done by the pliant NY Municipality and NIST and other Federal agencies. But the point you raised is genuine and that is why people think it a deep rooted conspiracy. The people who planned and executed 9/11 were no amateurs. .. they were professionals and professional of such high caliber that they prevented even Hollywood to make any film on WTC or 9/11 and make a scale model of WTC towers to fall in that peculiar fashion as a result of Single Jet Strike and resulting fire!!

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[QUOTE who="NB"] Q 122. I never saw such cowards as I did in Afghanistan. I enjoyed taking out you coward muslims as you hid behind your women and children. You people have no honour or pride. You are nothing but cowardly sniveling little pieces of shit. The whole world wants to piss on your head you cowardly pieces of shit. I would re enlist in a minute to have the chance to blow some nappy headed dick head like you into the next world. [/QUOTE] Ans. 01. Did you see the last count of US and NATO's body count during past 11 eleven years of War in Afghanistan at the hand of those 'Cowards in Afghanistan"? 02. Do you recall that "Brave Russian Army" captured Afghanistan and reached Kabul in less than 24 hours However when they "withdrew peacefully" after 10 odd years they had lost more than 100,000 of their "Brave but ill armed soldiers" 03. And before that British captured and reached Kabul "without any noticeable resistance" from these 'Coward Afghans". However when they "peacefully tried to return back after their picnic" they found that Only One Soldier could reach back its base. Rest fell on the way. British learned their lesson the hard way, Russia learned their lesson Hard way. 04. USA should have taken the cue and would have stayed away from the temptationbut they thought if "they hunt in packs" they might be successful where others failed. But even after 11 years of occupation , the ground situation remains same. 05. What I am really surprised is the attitude of Britain. After learning their lessons earlier on, they came back!! May be they thought that by hiding in shadows of Mighty US soldiers, they would fare better. But you do not change the mind set of Afghan people. 06. And to say that Afghans are cowards is like some one who is fled from the battle field with his tail between his legs, licking his wound and praising his "own bravery" I like your nerves, for coming back from Afghanistan alive!!

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[QUOTE who="Troll"] Q 123. Muq, tolerance as i have been taught is the capacity one has to accept what one disapproves of. The disapproval part of it is what makes the term uneasy for me. Plus the fact that something that is tolerated now can be so easily forbidden later on. [/QUOTE] Ans. You see brother, someone follows a religion because he or she thinks that it is the true religion. And that follows automatically that he or she thinks that other religions are either false or not as good as theirs is. This is very natural and logical because no one would like to follow an inferior religion or way of life. But when they have to live in a country where people of different religions and faiths are living, they have to tolerate such people and their religion and do nothing that hurts their sentiments. That is tolerance and co existence which Islam teaches us. You can live with people thinking that they are on wrong path, but do not say words that hurt their feeling or do down their religion and their religious personalities. To say or believe that ALL religions are true and lead to same goal would be a sort of hypocrisy and wrong interpretation of concept of Tolerance in my view. Because when you have contradictory opinions, both cannot be true.

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[QUOTE who="Frijoles"] Q 124 What planet are you on? If Obama gets reelected it isnt because of OBL, its because of universal healthcare and a general wariness of the bumbling idiocy and blandness of his wealthy opponent Mr Romney. OBL doesnt factor that much into it - Foreign policy is not a big thing in this particular election. Generally speaking, most if not all American elections are about the economy anyhow. This one especially. [/QUOTE] Ans. That is what I asked about Obamas achievement during last four years and I was told that finishing OBL was one of them. That is his only Real Achievement, the co called Universal Health Care is an illusion, which is too vague to have its real impact. At the most it is a political scheme, which looks so encouraging at the outset and so impractical on ground. Any scheme which is based on Insurance Companies and Banks and Stock brokers, have to fail in the end, because most of Cream goes into their pockets and poor citizens are left holding the bags, so to say. I am not a US citizen, to see how this scheme shall actually work, but I have a hindsight that few years from now, most US people would curse Obama and his idiotic Universal Healthcare Scheme. If he is able to win re-election based on his Health Scheme he would be the second person to pull wool over the eyes of US voters, GWB the Great was first who got reelected on the pretext of US is in danger because of Iraq!! How dumb US voters are!! PS: What about that Nobel Peace medal given to Mr. Obama? Was it not a waste of medal?

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What he did to justify the honor bestowed on him? I am not for or pro Obama, but I feel he is one of the most un-achiever President in Modern US history. And the main reason is he did not change anything in USA since he came. If he could have announce immediate pull out from Iraq, Afghanistan and close down GITMO and started Working on improving relations with Muslim world, he would have made some change in USA. But how can any President be that powerful in US when these Zionists and Jewish lobbies have him on leash!! What a poor site these Mighty US Presidents make,!! Only pomp and show, no real power!! [QUOTE who="Kenhurt"] Q 125 01. A reference for Thor's numbers, notoriously inaccurate in the past, would help. However, his numbers come to about 2 billion dollars a year. The population of the USA is about 313 million. 02. Russian sales and assistance to Syria in 2005 totaled $4.5 billion, in 2006 totaled $5.5 billion, and in 2008 billions more in combat aircraft, and continued until recent months. Syria has been Russia's largest consumer of military items for some years now, amounting to far more than Israel has been sold or supplied. Iraq had been completely supplied by the Russians/Soviets, far exceeding the $18 billion. Russian military sales to Iran were $8 billion in 2008 alone and have been substantially more than that each year thereafter. So one can see that the $18 billion to Israel really not the tip of an iceberg as compared to the many times more supplied to countries that are open enemies of Israel. However, some of the world's largest providers of bullshit re right here on Topix, and Thor and Muq's posts are good examples. [/QUOTE] Ans.

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There is a difference between Purchase and sale and between Free Aid. What Russians and US sales are to Muslim countries they are to be paid back in hard cash. However what US gifts and donates and sells to Israel is free!! And what US Govt. gives as largesse to the Zionist and Terrorist state of Israel is only a tip of Iceberg. How much free aid to Israel is collected and is hidden from official eyes is any ones guess. It seems as if US loots from other nations of the world and then it shares the loot with that Zionist and Terrorist state. My posts look offensive to you, because I show you the mirror, while your posts criticising Islam, Muslims Quran and Arabs are nothing and should be just ignored? Is that not a double standard? Q 125 Is there too Much Freedom in the West? Ans. Freedom in the West:

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The situation in west is that people either have got "too much freedom" in one direction and "too little freedom" in another direction. They have "too little freedom" in economical matters, and tax laws and duties and rates and their political system. They have to work like slaves with no guarantee of jobs. Then on the other hand they have "too much freedom" on morality and religion. They are free to do every immoral act and negate every custom and practice as they wish. It is this misbalance which has made their lives unhappy. All these western countries with so high standard of living have also one of the highest suicide rates and cases of mental illness. That shows that their souls are unhealthy, they try to find cure for it thru sports, music, dance, alcohol, immoral sexual practices, pornography and what not. But the peace for Soul can only come thru remembrance of God and nothing else, what they try as cure is the only temporary relief. The Church which was supposed to be the guardian and upholder of Morality and Moral values has also given in to the modernity and is now endorsing Homosexuality and all other immoral association, that is why Church has little appeal for these people. That is why people in these countries are easy prey to any one bringing cures for the sickness of souls. Some of them are picked up by Freak Hindu organizations like Specialty Yoga, Hare Krishna and similar fringe groups, but they also provide temporary cure, because behind the facade of Yoga, Meditation etc are Money Minded Gurus who want to Milk their followers. In the end, they have nothing left except Islam, which does not compromise on issue of morality and people get attracted to Islam. Then there is a difference between people who accept Islam and those who accept Hinduism, Buddhism or Sikhism etc.....the moment they became Muslim, their life is changed forever. While being Hindu, Buddhists or Sikhs does not demand any fundamental change in their life style, the changes are just ornamental. That is what is alarming the people in power about Islam and western people who accept Islam. How come people get attracted to Islam while every one is criticizing Islam and Muslims and Muslims living in these countries do not present themselves as good example of Islam!!

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One can only say that it is power of Truth, Truth of Islam which is able to convince these people that Islam is the only way out of the problems that western people have. So the rise of Islam in Europe shall be gradual and by slow step, till it gathers the critical mass and then become a movement to accept truth. In my view there would not be a war by Muslims to invade and win over Europe or any country of Europe like Italy or Spain or France or Germany etc. Allah Knows best

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[QUOTE who="Frijoles"] Q 126. The sources at the end of the wiki article have an interesting feature. You click the words on and they go to the page of the source, usually. Its called a "link". Then its up to you to evaluate the source if you care. I am assuming you then have the natural intellectual ability to evaluate the credibility of a source on your own and filter out the garbage from the real stuff. If you don't, I recommend an American High School education, or the equivalent. Using the Koran as a source, especially for matters of science, is a non starter with us. Don't waste your time on that here if you crave intelligent discussion. [/QUOTE] Ans. A. Wiki and my position: I am not against Wiki and any other source of information. But I do not consider it beyond reproach and criticism. I see that on Muslims related issues it follows the same pattern as Western Media does. It lacks the basic understanding of Islam and Islamic positions on major issues. That is why on Islamic matters and Islamic positions Wiki is not a reliable source of info at all. If you want to know about Islam, your sources are Islamic books and not Wiki articles. That is my objection on use of Wiki as first source of info as you people think. B. Quran and science: This has also been answered by me many times before and I want to repeat it once more for benefits of those who still do not understand it. Quran is not the book of science per see, it did not come to teach us science and Math and Medicine and Engineering. Its subject is to teach human how to deal with their Creator and their human fellows on this earth so as to live their lives in correct manner and pass the test of their lives. Since God is Creator of Universe, He uses that as a reference for human kind to reflect on His Majesty and Glory and Wisdom and Power and Mercy. It is in this reference that we find so many Comments on natural phenomenon and various forces in work in nature.

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If Humans were grateful, these Hints coming from the Creator would have been very much appreciated and would have solved and simplified their search for the answers they are looking for. But in their ignorance and arrogance, they look down on these Hints fromn the Top and try to spin out their own far fetched theories (lIke that of Blind Theory of Evolution and There is No Creator etc) and try to prove it from nature. The results are forknown, they have to fail ,because they are based on flase assumptions. The proper approach is to make a bridge between the two and remove the prevalent hostility and ignorance between each other. If there is mutual respect and tolearence of each other, scientists can learn much from Quran, because it might answer many of their dilemmas and Muslims can strengthen their faith by seeing the various hints in Quran as being proven by observation and experimentation. I do not know when this would be applicable, but I feel the day will come soon, when scientists realize their mistakes and their arrogance has come down.may be after a couple of more generations? Allah Knows Best.

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[QUOTE who="H Sandy"] Q 127. What really puzzles me is their definition of "ethics." Is there more to these stories? Is sexual misconduct just a cover-up for more extreme unethical behavior?? A wise mind should try to connect the dots on these stories. What's the whole picture? [/QUOTE] Ans. My question is that when there is "freedom to choose partners" and it is no "crime" for any man and women to have sex with mutual consent..what "crimes" these people did so that they had to resign? It shows that people 'expect" their Leaders and their Presidents and Prime Ministers and people on high posts to set a "better moral example" than ordinary citizens. They would not elect any one with a soiled reputation and even if he has been elected, if he does any misconduct on sexual ground.he has to resign. Yet and Yet, they have all those scandalous stories about prophets of God doing all those immoral acts (including incest) and God did not do any thing. He still continued with these people as Prophets of God. That was my point of posting these stories.

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