Mengi V Hermitage 2102 Trial Transcript

MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 745]
1 IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE Claim No: HQ10D04585 QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION 2 Royal Courts of Justice, 3 Strand, London WC2A 2LL 4 Tuesday, 13th November 2012 5 Before: 6 MR. JUSTICE BEAN 7 ---------8 BETWEEN: 9 REGINALD MENGI 10 Claimant 11 -and12 SARAH HERMITAGE Defendant 13 ---------14 15 (Transcript of the Stenograph/Shorthand Notes of Marten Walsh Cherer Ltd., 1st Floor, Quality House, 16 6-9 Quality Court, Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1HP. Telephone No: 020 7067 2900. 17 email - info@martenwalshcherer.com) 18 ---------19 MR. RICHARD RAMPTON QC and MR. AIDAN EARDLEY (instructed by Whitman Breed) appeared for the Claimant. 20 MR. JAMES PRICE QC and MR. JONATHAN BARNES (instructed 21 by Carter-Ruck) appeared for the Defendant. 22 ---------23 PROCEEDINGS EVIDENCE DAY 6 24 ---------ALL TRANSCRIPTS PREPARED WITHOUT CASE DOCUMENTS 25
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON mean I have downloaded several documents from the internet, maybe one or more copies of this particular article and I cannot say in all honesty to the court that I downloaded this particular article at this date. Q. Who did then, if it was not you? A. I have no idea. It very well may have been me, but I cannot remember doing it. Q. Yes. I am not criticising you for downloading it, I am just wondering how it comes to be in your disclosure with that date on it. It looks as though you have downloaded it on 13th May 2007, does it not? A. Mr. Rampton, I am not denying that I may well have done it; I am telling you that I cannot remember doing it. Q. No, quite. The next page is part of the same article, page 3. Page 4 is an article of 24 May 2006, downloaded, apparently, on 20th September 2007. That is headed, "Britain prevents court entourage visit at farm." Please turn over to page 5 and look at the article. A. Sorry, which article? Q. The article is the same article, is it not, as we saw on the previous page? A. "Britain prevents court entourage...."? Q. Yes. A. Yes.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. That is the same article, is it not? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. This one, however, if you look at the bottom right-hand corner
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SARAH HERMITAGE, RECALLED
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. RAMPTON (continued) 4 Q. Ms. Hermitage, could you open file 2 at tab 10(a)? This is 5 the witness statement of Mr. Lema, the IT person. Turn, 6 please, to the first page of the exhibits, which is 186(Q).
7 8
For ease of reference, it is much easier, there is a big black "1" at the bottom of the page in ink.
9 A. Yes. 10 Q. That is a printout of the article of 8th December 2005. Then, 11 please, turn over the page to 186(R). That is a printout of 12 13 14 15 16
an article on 19th January 2005, from the Guardian, I think. It is in English. It is equivalent, my Lord, to 3(a), 8-8(b) in file 3. That has written on it, "All of it untrue and defamatory." That is your handwriting. Yes? I think you
told us this yesterday. Do you have that? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. On the bottom right-hand side, opposite the website address, 19 it has got 13.05.2007.
20 A. Yes. 21 Q. That is downloaded by you at that date? 22 A. As I told you yesterday, Mr. Rampton, I cannot confirm that. 23 Q. Well, Ms. Hermitage, I am puzzled. These are documents 24 disclosed by you. 25 A. They may well be. They may well be downloaded by me, but I
of the page, was downloaded on 26th March 2010. Yes? A. Well, that is what the date is on the article, yes. Q. You have written in handwriting "downloaded" -- this is your writing, is it not? A. Yes, it is. Q. "Downloaded on 27th March 2010." In fact, it is exactly the same article as was downloaded on 20th September 2007, is it not? A. Possibly, Mr. Rampton. Q. On this occasion -- just look at page 4 again -- the entry on the left-hand side at the bottom of the page is the website address for IPP Media, is it not? A. Well, it may well be, yes. Q. You must know that, surely? A. Mr. Rampton, I do not know that. When I download articles, I go into Google search engine. I do not search for a website address. Q. I see. Tell me, please, what is the entry on page 5 at the bottom, "file://C\allusers/documenttanzania? A. That is clearly my computer. Q. That is your computer, is it not? So you have downloaded this
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MARTEN WALSH CHERER LTD 1ST FLOOR, 6-9 QUALITY COURT, CHANCERY LANE LONDON, WC2A 1HP
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 747]
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON article in March 2010, not from any IPP website, but from your own computer? A. Sorry, how can I download this from my computer if it has not come from a website in the first place? Q. Yes, it did, in 2007. A. Yes, but it does not necessarily need to come from my computer downloaded. These documents have been with different lawyers over the past few years. I am not trying to be difficult, Mr. Rampton. I do not know that I actually downloaded this article. Q. Perhaps you are not understanding where I am going, Ms. Hermitage. Mr. Price has said on one or two occasions in this court (and in his written argument) that the articles in Nipashe and the Guardian to which you objected were freely available on the IPP website until March 2010. A. Yes. Q. Not so. A. Is that a question or a statement? Q. No, is it so? A. To the best of my knowledge, they were, yes. Q. Where is a download from as late as March 2010? From the website? A. Because it is not in here does not necessarily mean it was not on the web.
1 2 A. Yes, I do.
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON
3 Q. At (c), which is part of paragraph 5, he says this: "Another 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22
redesign ....(reads to the words) ... new stories have been posted only." New story; it means only posted on the new website. "When this third redesign occurred .... (reads to the words) ... at the same time." The point is this, Ms. Hermitage: you could only access the archived material, that is to say the pre May 2009 material, by using that old address it 216.69.164.44. Is that right? paragraph 29 of his statement, you will see that is wholly inconsistent with what he said there. It is also wholly inconsistent with what he said about this particular article of the 90 million shillings, "British give compensation of 90 million." He says that was never available online when, clearly, it was because it is downloaded in my file, so I do not accept that. If I am to accept it, then I want time to get my own experts to examine it. website address in it 2010, 216.69.164.44?
12 A. Well, no, it is not right, Mr. Rampton. If you go to
21 Q. How many people do you suppose, Ms. Hermitage, knew that old 23 A. How can I possibly answer that, Mr. Rampton? 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I really do not understand where this is going, 25
Mr. Rampton. Even on my extremely limited knowledge of
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Q. Would you like right at the end of this little clip? 3 A. I think, actually, Mr. Lema's statement clarifies quite 4 clearly what was on the web in 2010. 5 Q. If you look at the end of this little bundle of exhibits, 6 bottom left-hand corner, you see the number, our page TTP, 7 216.69.164.44. Would you please look at the body of 8 Mr. Lema's statement? 9 A. I am sorry, Mr. Rampton, can you tell me what web article I am 10 supposed to be looking at? 11 Q. Sorry? 12 A. What web article am I supposed to be looking at? Can you give 13 me a page reference? 14 Q. I am asking you to look at page 10 and 11. The first one in 15 Swahili. That is the last of the articles of which you 16 complain. It is 11th April 2007. 17 A. I am looking at 10 and 11. 18 Q. Yes, one is in English and one is in Swahili or one is partly 19 in English, I think. Would you please look at page 186(G)? 20 This is the third page of Mr. Lema's statement. 21 A. I do not have it in my file. 22 Q. It is just a little bit further back in the file? 23 A. I do not have it in the file; I have it in a separate file 24 here. 25 Q. Would you please turn to -- do you have page 186(G)?
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON computers, I know how Google searches work and sometimes they lead you to websites which nobody has touched for years, so how do we know and why does it matter? website is said to be a response to articles defamatory of her and, particularly, Mr. Middleton still on the IPP Media website. It appears to be not so, unless you have a special tool. last sentence of paragraph 6, which gives the full position. Google. Did you ever do that? I think you did it once, so far as I can ---misleading. I got most of these articles through Google and not through the IP address. This statement clearly says, in paragraph 29, "An article was located on the old website, where it remained until 20th September 2010 and I can see, therefore, by this that the defendant had managed to locate at least one of the articles on the old website, though it is not clear how she had done so." So that, you know, with respect, what you are saying is not consistent with your own witness' statement.
5 MR. RAMPTON: It matters because the content of Ms. Hermitage's
10 MR. PRICE: I think my learned friend really should look at the 12 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, the last sentence says you can get at it by
15 A. Mr. Rampton, that is wholly inaccurate and terribly
25 Q. I can only find one Google download in here and I think it is
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON for a translation, on page 9. A. That is because -- in here, perhaps, but you know, who is to say what was on the web at the time. Q. We are told these are your downloads from the website, from the internet. A. Well, they probably are, Mr. Rampton. That does not mean to say that I did not have any other downloads or when I downloaded them that was the end of them. Q. Not all the articles were accessible on the website, were they? The articles of which you complain. A. At what date? Q. Try the article of 3rd February 2007. A. Can you refer to it, please, in the bundle? Q. No, it is not there. It is not amongst your downloads. A. Then I do not know what article you are talking about. Q. I will show you. It is the article on page 21 of file 3. A. You would like me to go to file 3? Q. Yes, I am afraid so, since you asked me what article it is. I will show you it in your own website in a moment. It is the first tab and it is page 21 in the bottom right-hand corner. A. Yes, I have it. Q. That was never on the IPP Media website, was it? A. Well, I was shown that article yesterday, towards the end of the court time and I, myself, actually told the court -- it
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON This article, for example, was never on the website. That is
Mr. Lema's evidence? 4 A. Well, the fact that it was not on the website, the fact that 5 it was not published internationally, nevertheless it was published in the newspaper. 7 Q. Can we ---8 A. No, could I say something, please, Mr. Rampton? You have just 9 made that accusation.
6 10 Q. Yes, of course. 11 A. It is my contention that the damage done by these IPP 12 publications, whether on the internet or not, are indelibly
marked on the papers of Tanzanian history. 14 Q. So readers of your website in 2010, the early part of 2010, 15 will have reed what was published in the Guardian three years
13
earlier. Is that right? 17 A. Well, your client has. 18 Q. My client has? Sorry, I am not following that. 19 A. Well, I cannot tell you what readers have read what on my
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website and I am not trying to be difficult; I cannot tell
you. 22 Q. Please turn back to file 1.2. I do not know whether you have 23 still got that there?
24 A. Which page, Mr. Rampton? 25 Q. Page 81.
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1 2 A. 81? 3 Q. 81 in the first tab. 4 A. It is quite difficult to read, but yes, I have it. 5 Q. Do you have it? 6 A. I have got page 81, yes. 7 Q. Yes, the bottom of the page is a posting for Thursday, 8
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON will be in the transcript -- that I believe that that was not on the website at this time, but I believe I was shown later a download of that article, unless I am very much mistaken. to find a download of this article. what I thought because I turned round and said, "Oh, this was on the website after all." So I am not saying definitively, but that was my recollection at close of play yesterday. but I am not conscious of any download of this article and you will have noticed Mr. Lema says it was never on the website, ever? was at court yesterday. Mr. Rampton, but you carry on, if you think it is getting anywhere. Perhaps we better have this man, Lema, here if you are going to say the whole case turns on his evidence. What I am suggesting is that by the time these postings took place in late 2009 and early 2010, there was nothing really of any significance left for Ms. Hermitage to reply to. One of the limbs of the defence of privilege is reply to attack.
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON
5 Q. It certainly escapes me, Ms. Hermitage. I do not know where 7 A. Well,I am not saying it is definitively the case, but that is
11th March 2010, is it not?
9 A. Yes. 10 Q. This is one of the postings complained of because on the next 11 12 13
11 Q. No doubt if I am mistaken about that somebody will tell me,
page, 82, it accuses Mr. Mengi of having broken two promises and having, as it were, escalated the defamation campaign against you?
14 A. My Lord, could I ask, please, for a better copy? 15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: There is a better copy somewhere. I have had 16 18
15 A. I am not disputing that, I am just saying what my recollection 17 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I just do not see where this is going,
trouble with this one as well. Claim.
17 MR. PRICE: It will be in file 1.1, attached to the Particulars of 19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 20 MR. PRICE: I think it is on page 47. 21 MR. RAMPTON: I have to say I do not find that much easier to 22
21 MR. RAMPTON: No, I have not said anything of the kind, my Lord.
read, but never mind.
23 A. No, it is not. 24 Q. Page 47, the piece about Mr. Reginald Mengi is at the first 25
part of that page. Then what you have done ----
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. Sorry, can you give me the paragraph where I refer to 3 Mr. Reginald Mengi?
1 4 Q. Yes, it begins, "The continued harassment against the British 5 investors in the Silverdale Farm case included a defamation
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON reference, Ms. Hermitage, we believe, is on page 125 of this
campaign by IPP Media...." et cetera. 7 A. It does not mention Reginald Mengi. 8 Q. Then at the end of the second paragraph ---9 A. Sorry, Mr. Rampton, you have just said it referred to
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file, 1.2, in a posting for 24th July 2009. 4 A. Sorry, page 125? 5 Q. 1.2, page 125, in a circle in the bottom right-hand corner. 6 A. I am in 1.1 at the moment, so if you will forgive me?
7 Q. Sorry, 1.2. Somebody has helpfully put the number of the file 8 on the inside cover. 9 A. 1.2 and? 10 Q. Page 125. 11 A. Again, if there is any possibility of a better copy, I would 12 be grateful. 13 Q. No, I cannot oblige, I am afraid. This is the only copy I 14 have. Could I possibly see whether this copy is better than 15 16
Reginald Mengi. I do not see any reference to Reginald Mengi
in that paragraph. 12 Q. You have not let me finish my question, Ms. Hermitage. The 13 reference to Mr. Reginald Mengi is in the next following paragraph. Read it to yourself. (Pause) 15 A. Yes, I have read that. 16 Q. "Two broken promises and a continuing campaign of harassment 17 by defamation." Yes?
14 18 A. Indeed. 19 Q. Now, this is what I was actually going to ask you about -- I 20 am coming back to the way in which your allegations against 21 22 23
yours? This looks a lot cleaner than mine, certainly. Yes, I
think it is a bit better. Can I see that? 17 A. That is not the whole copy, Mr. Rampton, the rest of it is 18 here.
19 Q. Yes, this is better because it is darker. See if you can read 20 this one more easily, Ms. Hermitage. 21 A. There is not much in it, Mr. Rampton, but I will try. Oh, 22 yes, it is a bit clearer. Am I looking at the pink one or the
Mr. Mengi develop quite shortly: what happens next is that you have actually, in this piece about Mr. Mengi you have
reprinted the article of the 3rd February 2007. Why? 24 A. Can you refer me to the article? 25 Q. It is just here, beneath. "Full text of IPP Media article
green one? 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I do not have the colours. The bottom of the 25 page, "...publically supports agriculture...." and so on.
23
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON defamatory statements...." and highlighted in red, "...regarding Saturday, February 3rd 2007." A. Well, why not? Q. What is the purpose of reprinting an article to which you take objection? A. So that the people reading the website can see what was written. Q. Yes, just in case they could not remember it from three years earlier. Is that right? A. You know, Mr. Rampton, again, I am not trying to be difficult; I do not know who has read it or what they thought when they did. I have put an article on to my blog which gives the accusations, which you rightly point out, and reproduces the article published. I just do not see why that would be inconsistent with a blog. Q. It is not inconsistent with a blog. It is, perhaps, inconsistent with a reply to an attack that took place three years earlier? A. Well, I was not thinking of any kind of reply to attack. What I was doing was highlighting what it says. Q. In that case, we may move on, Ms. Hermitage. I hope you will be patient with me, but it is perhaps, we believe, valuable to see how your treatment of Mr. Reginald Mengi develops over a period of months on this website. The first significant
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON A. Yes. MR. RAMPTON: "Reginald Mengi uses IPP Media to destroy agricultural investment. Reginald Mengi publically supports agriculture, but privately destroys it." Then this: "All links to IPP Media in this article have now been blocked. For copies, e-mail ragamuffin." That is you, is it not? A. Yes. Q. If you turn over the page, you see on the next page, 126, starting just below the first hole punch, that you have summarised five of the articles to which you took objection? A. Sorry, can I just clarify, am I actually being sued on this article? Q. No, no, what I am doing ---A. I just wanted to know whether I was being sued. It was a general question. Q. No, the first article, the first posting on which you are sued is 5th December. We are going to come to that. A. That is what I thought, yes. Q. I told you that what I was going to do was to try and remind you how your campaign against Mr. Mengi developed over the course of some months, starting here in July 2009. In this posting, you say that all links to the articles have been blocked. What does that mean? A. It probably means that if I went into the IP address, I could
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON not get into the articles that way. Q. Quite. A. It does not mean to say you could not get in to them through Google. Q. There are five of the articles about which you were complaining summarised on the following page, are they not? Page 126, 22nd November 2006, 19th January 2006, 24th May 2006, 3rd February 2007 and the last one, 11th April 2007. Once again, you are anxious for people to see what it is you are talking about when you say that Reginald Mengi uses IPP Media to destroy agricultural investment, are you not? You want them to see it? A. Sorry, I do not really understand the question. Just because I said that they are blocked? What is the question? I am sorry, I do not understand the question. Q. That they are blocked and you have answered that question. You said you could not an access them using the IPP website address? A. That is right, yes. Q. Over the page, you have nonetheless summarised them. A. Yes. Q. What you are doing is telling people what it is you are complaining about. A. Of course it is, Mr. Rampton.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON page 119?
3 A. I have Wednesday, 2nd September. 4 Q. 4th September, this is. 5 A. Well, I have Wednesday, the 2nd. 6 Q. No, sorry, above the date Wednesday, the 2nd. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. This is part of the posting for 4th September. 9 A. Yes, well, the top of my posting is not there. 10 Q. No, the posting starts at the bottom of page 118. 11 A. Yes, but it carries over and it has been blocked out for some 12 13 15 17 19
reason. I cannot read -- you know, it is not on my page. It has not been photocopied. paragraphs. not come out on my paper. The top has been cut off. five lines. Like you, I have a blurred bit at the top.
14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: He is only asking you about the last couple of 16 A. My Lord, I appreciate that, but I cannot see it because it has 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, I think he is asking you about the last 20 A. Oh, right. 21 MR. RAMPTON: I am asking you about the paragraph which begins in 22
November 2005.
23 A. Yes, I see. 24 Q. Do you have that? 25 A. Yes, I have.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. Yes. Thank you. Then may we turn, please, next to page 123? 3 Again, this is not an article for which you are sued. It is
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON British government that the defamation would cease. By January 2006, clearly he had forgotten this promise." Not so far, Ms. Hermitage, an allegation of lying, is it?
2 Q. Good. "Reginald Mengi gave his personal assurance to the
headed at the bottom of the page, it is for 11th August 2009, "IPP Media defends British investors Silverdale case. IPP Media, journalistic terrorism." Then at the top of the next page, 124, there is another reference to Mr. Reginald Mengi? A. Sorry, where is that reference? Q. At the top of page 124, underneath the drawing of Mr. Jackson Kimambo wrapped up. A. Yes, it is an accurate reference to Mr. Mengi. Q. That is as may be. We do not agree about that, but let us just see how it develops, may we? Then, again, you have printed out, I think it is the article of 3rd February 2007, have you not? What I call the Habib assault article. A. Yes. Q. Please turn to page 118, the bottom of the page, 4th September 2009, now we get, "Reginald Mengi reneges on promises re: IPP Media and defamation." Over the page, in November 2005 -- it was not November, was it Ms. Hermitage? It was December, was it not? "Reginald Mengi gave his personal assurance to the British government that the defamation in the Silverdale case would cease. By January 2006, clearly had he had forgotten this promise." Do you see that, at the top of
6 A. No, Mr. Rampton, no. 7 Q. No, it is not. Why did you not stop there? You have made 8 9 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 20 21 23
your position clear; you say he made a promise and you say he had forgotten it. What more did you need? started off with what I felt were the most serious issues to us. The blog is wholly consistent in that respect. I have set out what happened to us. I have set out the abuse, I have set out the abuse of law and I have set out what Reginald Mengi did. Now, how I did that, at that time, you know, I cannot see that it is of any consequence. I mean, I have been consistent in what I have said the whole time. you see a difference in saying on the one hand he made a promise which he evidently forgot and accusing him of lying? degree of sarcasm, in my view.
10 A. Mr. Rampton, when my blog started, at the end of 2009, it
19 Q. It may be of some consequence to Mr. Mengi, Mr. Hermitage. Do
22 A. I think by innuendo, this post, I think it is written with a 24 Q. It was what? 25 A. With a degree of sarcasm.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. I see, it is sarcastic. I do not see the need for sarcasm. 3 A. Well, it has never entered my head that Mr. Mengi forgot his 4 promise, I have been wholly consistent in what I have said
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON probably was not. I telephoned, at some point (and I honestly cannot remember when), the Coca-Cola company in the UK and I spoke to a man called Tim Wilkinson. He was something to do with Director of Media or Publications. I reported to him the fact that IPP Media was being used to defame us in Tanzania. Nothing more or nothing less than that and I made it quite clear that I was making no personal accusations against Mr. Mengi. Now, it is my understanding from Mr. Pocock and from Neil Hammond, who is the Deputy High Commissioner in Tanzania, that Mr. Mengi called Andrew Pocock (and I cannot tell you when that was, my Lord -- originally, I thought it was before this meeting, but we now do not think it was) and complained, obviously, about my contact to Coca-Cola and that he felt that it was damaging his name.
about Mr. Mengi in that meeting. There may be discrepancies, there may be differences in what my husband is saying and what I say, but there will always be honesty in that. Q. Ms. Hermitage, I will not accept that answer, I am afraid. My suggestion is this: you could have perfectly well made your position clear -- notwithstanding than on our evidence it is false -- you could have made your position perfectly clear with that simple statement, "He made some promises which he did not carry out or which he openly forgot." That would have been quite sufficient to inform the reader of your position, would it not? A. That is your view, Mr. Rampton. You know, if you had been writing the blog, that is perhaps how you would have put it. It is not how I chose to put it. Q. Please turn to page 113. By now we are in November -- 15th November 2009. Do you have that one, in the middle of the page? A. Yes. Q. Heading, "IPP Media fails to expose corruption. In November 2005, Reginald Mengi gave his promise to the British government that IPP Media would stop its defamatory practice
17 Q. Yes, but that was after ---18 A. Can I finish, please, Mr. Rampton? 19 Q. Sorry. 20 A. Mr. Pocock or Mr. Hammond, I am not quite sure which one it 21 22 23 24 25
was that I had the conversation with, stated that -- it was certainly Mr. Pocock that turned round to Mr. Mengi and said, "Well, what about their reputation and the damage that IPP Media Publications is doing in Tanzania?" Mr. Mengi stated, according to Mr. Pocock, that he was going to make a
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON against the British investors in the Silverdale case. He did not keep his promise." That means the same as reneged, to an ordinary person, does it not, which is the word you used earlier. Now we come, if we may, to the first of the articles complained of by Mr. Mengi in this action, on page 107, the first of the postings. Have you got that? A. I have. Q. "Reginald Mengi, a look into his mirror." If you would like me to read the whole of it, I will. I have read it before. "Tanzania's Communications, Science and Technology .... (reads to the words) ....mirror reveal?" That is a rhetorical question, is it not, Ms. Hermitage? A. It is, yes. Q. Then you say this -- if I can skip the next paragraph, as we have all seen it before. It is an account of your dispute with Benjamin Mengi. This is the next paragraph after that. "In late 2005, Reginald Mengi reported to the British government he felt the Silverdale case was damaging his business interests." Where did that come from? A. My Lord, there was a conversation between Mr. Mengi and Mr. Pocock. I cannot honestly say when that conversation was. Initially, I believed it was before the meeting with the High Commissioner, but going through the notes we believe it
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON press release on this and Mr. Pocock, I do not know what he replied to that, but there was no press release forthcoming. Q. I do not believe Mr. Pocock says anything of that kind in his witness statement, does he not? A. He was not asked, was he. Q. I do not know whether he was asked or not. You wrote to the Coca-Cola company on 16th January 2010, did you not? A. Addressed to whom? Q. To Ms. Alexis M. Herman? A. Do you have a copy? Q. Yes, yes, you are going to look at it shortly, but I was just getting the dates. If you want to make sure that I am not misleading you, you can turn to page 176 in file 1.2. A. Yes, that is right. Q. As we have it open, we can look at it now. 16th January 2010, this letter says, on page 177, "There is a particular aspect of the campaign ... (reads to the words) ... in Northern Tanzania." Then you recite your account of the meeting. The next paragraph, "In late 2005 .... (reads to the words) ... IPP Media publications." Again, that is not exactly what Mr. Pocock says in his witness statement, is it? A. Well, he was not asked about that particular conversation. Q. He was not asked about the meeting on 13th December? A. That is not what that is referring to.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Q. Come, come, Ms. Hermitage, let us read it carefully. "The British High Commissioner to Tanzania at the .... (reads to the words) ... IPP Media publications." That is all part of the same exchange, is it not? A. Could you just refer me to the paragraph again, please? Q. I am sorry, this is at the bottom of page 177. The last paragraph on page 177. A. Well, I can take your point that that is how they read, but ---Q. No ---A. Well, if you just let me finish -- obviously there has been some confusion in the way I have written that. Q. There is indeed because the chronology is all topsy-turvey, is it not? "Mr. Mengi stated he was not aware .... (reads to the words) ... and Mr. Pocock." In fact, that remark by Mr. Mengi about not being responsible for the articles and not knowing about them was actually made at the meeting, was it not? A. Yes, it was. Q. I would like you to turn over the page -- I notice in passing that you said, "Mr. Mengi did not honour his promises to address his brother's behaviour and pay for our legal costs personally." At the top of page 179 -- I am only doing this now because this document is in front of you -- you have written
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON "...in order to grab their property." It looks like pretty plain English to me, Ms. Hermitage. A. I have just explained what it is. It is a scenario that I felt was quite feasible given Coke's high profile and Mr. Mengi's profile in Tanzania. It is my opinion of what I felt, given what Mr. Mengi's press had been doing to us, might do to him should the situation continue further. Q. Have you finished? Do not let me cut you off. The Chief Executive of Coca-Cola in America -- I think it is in Atlanta -- has no idea about Mr. Mengi's role in this. You have said that this is what his role is, to intimidate you in order to grab your property. How is Ms. Herman supposed to know that that simply is not true? A. Well, let us go back one step. I have not said that that is what was meant by that statement. Q. You do not agree that it means what it says? A. No, I do not ---Q. Very well. A. I do not agree that it means what you are suggesting it means. Q. I just read it out, I have to say. I am not going to -- obviously there is no virtue in my arguing about the meaning of plain English words, so let us leave it, may we? Go back to page 107 in this file, in the first divider, where we have the posting of 5th December and to the fifth
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON this -- do you see the third line at the top of page 179? A. Indeed. Q. Yes. Starting, "In our view...."? A. Yes. Q. "In our view, it will not be long before a headline such as Coke business partner in Tanzania intimidates British investors in order to grab their property." That was a reference to Mr. Reginald Mengi, was it not? A. It was a reference to the situation, Mr. Rampton. I mean, Coca-Cola has got one of the foremost anti-corruption policies of any company in the world and I would suggest that anything of the nature that has occurred in the Silverdale Farm case and was misconstrued by the press could possibly result in a headline such as this. I do not think that is inconsistent with common sense. Q. Were you honestly telling the -- I think she is the Chief Executive, Alexis Herman, of Coca-Cola -- were you actually telling her that Mr. Reginald Mengi, who is Coca-Cola's business partner in Tanzania, was intimidating you in order to grab your property? A. That is not what it says, Mr. Rampton. Q. Does it not? A. No. Q. "Intimidates British investors...." That is you, is it not?
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON paragraph -- I had read the first sentence of the fifth paragraph, "In late 2005, Reginald Mengi reported .... (reads to the words) ... it would step." Here we go, this is the first one, Ms. Hermitage, "Mengi lied." Yes? What did you intend to convey by saying that Mr. Mengi lied? A. Well, he did lie. He gave his assurance to the British government that he would stop the defamation. We were not asking him to stop the publications, we were asking him to stop the defamation. Q. You were intending to convey the thought to the minds of your readers that when Mr. Mengi made this alleged promise, he had no intention of keeping it. A. No, that is not the case at all, Mr. Rampton. I had no idea what his intention was when he gave the promise; I can only tell you what happened after he gave the promise. Q. Let us pass on, if we may? Page 105. No, start at page 104 because we must keep the context. This is Tuesday, 15th December 2009, in the middle of the page, underneath the cartoon and above another one, that is meant to be Mr. Mengi's hand, I take it, is it? A. It does not say it is, does it, Mr. Rampton? Q. I am asking you because this is your website? A. Well, no, it is clearly IPP Media. Q. The person roped up on the end of that finger is
[7] (Pages 767 to 770)

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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Mr. Jackson Kimambo, the reporter, is it not? A. Yes, it is. Q. You are not accepting that in context -- this is the headline, "Reginald Mengi, IPP Media openly supports corruption" and underneath that is a hand with the tame reporter all strung up and his camera too -- that is not meant to be Mr. Mengi's hand? A. No, it is not. I mean, if you look at the headline, "Reginald Mengi, IPP Media...." if you look at some of IPP Media's publications themselves and I think if I can refer to the one where, it is something about gold mines being destroyed by companies.mengi" I am using exactly the same headlines that are used in his media, but the answer to your question is no, it was not meant to be Mr. Mengi. Had I meant it to be Mr. Mengi, I would have put Mengi on the cuff. Q. Why did you put his name in the headline? Why not just say "IPP Media" and then it would have been clear that that is a cooperate hand and not a human one? A. He owns the cooperate, Mr. Rampton. Why not? Q. People are meant to think that hand is his. Come on, Ms. Hermitage, it is not very difficult? A. What you are saying is that you can use that headline when it is saying something positive about Mr. Mengi, but it is unacceptable when it is something negative.
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. You do not print the article in the Guardian, you have only 3 printed it, I think, in Swahili in the Nipashe article. At
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the bottom of that posting, two little paragraphs, "In November 2005 .... (reads to the words) ... He lied." Again why do you need to repeat this allegation? A. Because it is true, Mr. Rampton. Why not? Q. Surely the readers of the blog will have got the message fair and square by now, will they not? A. Mr. Rampton, this was a despicable piece of journalism and if you ever took the trouble to go into that case and look at the state of those proceedings as they stand today, together with as they were when it went on to that blog, your client gave his assurance to the British Government that he would stop the defamation. He did not stop it. It continued in a despicable fashion and to suggest to me to put that in there is unacceptable, I would say is not acceptable. Q. Let us try another page, Ms. Hermitage, to see whether that answer holds water that you have just given. Page 95, please, bottom of the page. This is a posting for boxing day, 26th December 2009. This is the third of the postings of which Mr. Mengi complains in this action. Bottom of page 95, "Reginald Mengi, IPP Media corrupt and libelous journalism." That is another step up again, is it not, Ms. Hermitage? Corruption now.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. Could I go into some degree of detail on this posting? 3 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think it is better that you listen to each 4 question and answer it. Mr. Rampton is asking you whether the
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton is just asking you whose hand it was. A. My Lord, I appreciate that, but I have said it is not Mengi's, it is IPP Media. MR. RAMPTON: You do not recognise any risk that the ordinary, reasonable reader of your website interested in this affair in, perhaps, an idle way, would not take that to be Mr. Mengi's hand?
10 A. Not if you read the article. 11 Q. We are going to look at a little bit of the article in a 12 13 14 15
moment. Just underneath that, you have printed an article from Nipashe, the article of 11th April 2007. It is in Swahili, so I am not going to read it, you will be pleased to hear.
16 A. It is also printed in English. 17 Q. I know that, but please follow me. Go down the middle of the 18 19 20 21
next page, opposite the first hole punch. "Source Nipashe. On 11th April 2007 .... (reads to the words) ... 2006." Then this: "This link is now blocked", but is printed above. Is that right?
22 A. Is what right, sorry? 23 Q. "This link is now blocked." 24 A. Well, if I put that in there then, I would not have be able to 25
get in through the URL address.
use of the word "corrupt" is a step up? A. Well, if you are saying was I consciously stepping up the campaign against your client, the answer is no. I may have used different words. I mean, what would you call it, other than corrupt? Transparency international's definition of corrupt is the abuse of power for private gain, so on that simplistic defamation, it is corrupt. Q. I see. It is corrupt in the sense that he has abused his media power. Is that what it is? That is what you mean by corruption in this context. Is that right? Is that right? A. Of course it is, Mr. Rampton. Of course. Q. It is. Of course it is. A. IPP Media has been abused in a manner that is corrupt. Q. I have your answer and we are going to test that in a minute too, but let us test your earlier answer, that the article he of the 11 April 2007, which you printed the Nipashe version on, I think it was 15th December, was an atrocious article and you were quite entitled to remind people that Mr. Mengi was a liar because he had printed that article after having promised not to print any more articles. That was your evidence about that article.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Now let us look at this one. Bottom of page 95, "Reginald Mengi, IPP Media corrupt and libelous journalism .... (reads to the words) ... He lied", and as evidence of his lying, you print an article from 23rd November 2005? A. Yes, I appreciate that, Mr. Rampton. Q. He had said nothing. He never did say anything, but even on your case he had said nothing at that time? A. No, he had not. Q. So why did you do it this way? A. I have been told (and I think it was in my witness statement) that was wholly an error on my part. I had no idea it had been done until these proceedings had been brought and it had been pointed out by my lawyers. Q. You repeatedly rake over old coals. You use one article after another as a platform for accusing Mr. Mengi of lying, do you not? A. Yes. Q. That is what we have been looking at. We are going to look at another one now, I fear. 31st January 2010, page 87. This is the penultimate one in the website. May I finish the website, my Lord, before we have a break? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON comes up on the internet it is preceded by, "this is a story of British investors". Now, a story means it is a series of events, like a book. If you go to the middle of a book, you perhaps may not get the meaning in context of the whole story. If I wanted to say that about Mr. Mengi I would have said it. That is not what it meant. It meant that his media was used to support the corruption of his brother, who did steal our farms and chase us from the country. Q. "The Mengis (the two of them) have engaged in corruption to invade the farms and steal the lease forcing the investors from the country". That is unequivocal, Miss Hermitage, is it not? A. I will concede it could have been worded better but it is not meant to be what you are suggesting. Q. Do you remember the fanciful headline you put in the letter to Coca Cola, "Coke business partner intimidates British investors in order to grab their property." The thought here is precisely the same, is it not? A. It is completely different, Mr. Rampton. They are mutually exclusive. They are mutually exclusive letters and postings. Q. Sorry? A. They are mutually exclusive. Q. What are? A. The letter and blog.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 MR. RAMPTON: Is that all right? I am looking at the workers. 3 Page 87, Sunday 31st January, again this has the website
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. How? 3 A. Because one was written to Coca Cola in a completely different 4 context and this is in the middle of my blog site.
1 5 Q. It is probably not your fault, it is probably mine. Just to 6 get the decks clear, as it were, the ultimate question, what 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
heading at the top of it, what I call the title page, as it were: "He quit his commitment agricultural investment ....(reads to the words).... stressed the importance of agricultural investment." You then set out what he said or some of it. You go on: "It would seem that his commitment to both agriculture and investment is nothing more than rhetoric ....(reads to the words).... and that the Mengis [plural] have engaged in corruption to invade the farms and steal the lease forcing the investors from the country." What has that got to
do with IPP Media? 14 A. In the context of the blog, Mr. Rampton, there is absolutely 15 no mention at all to Mr. Mengi ever coming to grab the farm or
16 17 18
steal the lease. That clearly means, in my view, that IPP Media was used to support the corruption and harassment by his brother.
19 Q. Then why not say so? Are you suggesting that every person who 20 reads this or who read this website is going to read every 21
single posting you put on it?
22 A. No ---23 Q. No. 24 A. Mr. Rampton, please let me finish. I am not suggesting that 25 at all but what I am suggesting is that every time a post
these articles, postings, and letters and so on, would have conveyed to the people who received them, the ordinary people who received them, is a matter for his Lordship to decide but what I am interested in is what was in your mind at the time when you wrote them. A. What was in my mind at the time I wrote all of them was the fact that Mr. Mengi gave his assurance to the British Government that he would stop the defamation articles in his newspapers, and he did not do so. Q. And that makes him guilty of a corrupt land grab, does it? A. We have just been through that, Mr. Rampton. Q. Yes, very well. A. That is not what I mean by that posting. There is no suggestion anywhere in my blog that he did anything like that. Q. Now, finally, in this website, Miss Hermitage, at page 82, there is the main part of a posting starting at page 81, dated Thursday, 11 March 2010, that is on page 81, and on the next page, page 82, this is the last of the postings complained of by Mr. Mengi. You have written this, the third paragraph
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON underneath the illegible reprint from a newspaper: "The continued harassment against the British investors in the Silverdale Farm case ....(reads to the words).... radio stations and published worldwide on the web." This is published worldwide on the web, is it not, Miss Hermitage, that is what it is? A. Yes, it is; yes. Q. Yes. "All publications are couched in a language ....(reads to the words).... he requested a meeting with my husband and Mr. Pocock." Again, that is not correct, is it? It was not Mr. Mengi who requested the meeting, was it? A. Yes, it was. Q. "At this meeting Mr. Mengi promised the British Government that he would address his brother's behaviour ....(reads to the words).... far from diminishing, the defamation campaign in IPP Media publications escalated from this point onwards." Why suddenly, this is the first time in any of your postings about Mr. Reginald Mengi, have you mentioned two alleged promises which have nothing whatever to do with the media campaign? A. Sorry, I do not understand your question. Q. You have been telling your audience that Mr. Mengi lied when he promised to stop the defamatory publications about you. That has been a fairly constant theme. It starts with having
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON within your power to blacken Mr. Reginald Mengi's name, including accusing him of a corrupt attempt, successful attempt, to grab your property. A. Have you read the blog, Mr. Rampton? Q. Have I read the blog? A. That is a sincere and honest question, have you? Q. No, I do not want to be flippant about it ---MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Do not ask counsel questions. He is not allowed to answer. A. If you had read the blog, you would see that what you just said is totally inconsistent with the blog. As soon as Mr. Mengi took out this action, there was never any further mention in my website -- my website is some 200 pages and we are talking about the allegations and what I am sitting in the box for amount to about an A4 page. As soon as the action was taken out, the language was modified out of respect for that action, so what you are saying is actually not quite right. Q. I am lost, I am afraid, Miss Hermitage. I perhaps put my question badly; I often do. My proposal is this. You reflect as far as we have got in this website -- started in June I think although you set it up earlier than that, first posting some time about 17th June, I think, and it runs through so far as we are concerned, we are now in March 2010, it starts in June 2009 -- so far as Mr. Reginald Mengi is
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON forgotten the promises, then not keeping them, and then it becomes lying. Here are two completely new promises for your audience to learn about. A. They are true, Mr. Rampton. Q. Why does your readership need to know if it be the case that Mr. Mengi made these promises and then broke them? A. Well, I obviously considered it to be what I wanted to write at the time. If it is true, why should I not write it? There is no sinister motive. Q. I do not want to be a lawyer about this. You do not know that it is true. This is what your husband told you. A. I believed it to be true. Q. And according to his evidence yesterday, I think I am right, I have not read the transcript, his impression was that when Mr. Mengi made these promises, if he did, which is disputed, he was sincere. A. He clearly was not sincere, was he, because he did not keep them. Q. You were not there. A. I believe what he said to be true and on the basis of that I have written my blog. Q. May I suggest, and we are going to look at some more of your material shortly, after a little break, may I suggest that what you are doing with this blog is you are doing everything
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON concerned, I am not talking about later in 2010 when he has threatened legal action, up until now from early December or perhaps a little bit before, through to March 2010, you have gone out of your way to blacken Mr. Reginald Mengi's name. A. So what you are suggesting to me, then, Mr. Rampton, if I can be quite clear on that, is that you are saying that I am engaging in a campaign against an individual. Q. Yes. A. Yes. My response to that is that it has never been about Mr. Reginald Mengi or Mr. Benjamin Mengi, they are inconsequential to what I am trying to achieve here and why I am sitting in this witness box. This is about people being held accountable for the promises that they make. Now, the judgment in this case will not just impact on me, it will clearly render me financially ruined, but it will also impact on a lot of people in Tanzania, on the future of the media in Tanzania, on human rights, and access to law and justice. It has never been about my emotion or feelings against Mr. Reginald Mengi. Q. It absolutely reeks of venom, does it not, Miss Hermitage? A. I say it again, Mr. Rampton. You can stand there for six months and go on and on and on but you will never find me dishonest, I will never lie to this court. I have been honest and sincere in everything I have been trying to do and that is
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON further human rights in Tanzania.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON East Africa. In the "Sharks of Corruption" case he held about three/four press conferences and does so frequently when people criticise him. I am one voice on a blog site and he
3 Q. What then if this court should find that those promises were 4 never given? 5 A. Well, in that case I will go away financially ruined and live 6 my life knowing that I have done the right thing, but what 7 8
I could not do is walk away from this court not having sat in
did not -- how can I bring him down? 6 Q. The answer to that is simple. He is concerned that is why he 7 has brought this action. You heard him say so. If I may use a
8 9 10
this witness box. 9 Q. You use, I suggest, not only your website to try and bring 10 down Mr. Reginald Mengi, you also picked out certain groups of people where you thought you could do him damage, did you not? 12 A. No, I did not. 13 Q. And you corresponded with them by email. The first one, the 14 ones with Coca Cola we have looked at, 16th January. You also
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colloquialism, his concern to stop the rot, he wants you to desist from accusing him of being a corrupt liar. Do you understand?
11 A. So why did he not come and speak to me? He saw fit to go and 12 speak to the British High Commissioner and the High 13 14
Commissioner said, "Why don't you go and speak to Miss
wrote, if you now turn to page 168 of this file, the second
divider ---17 A. Can you tell me which file, please, Mr. Rampton? 18 Q. The same one, the second half of 1.2. Sorry, that is 19 Mr. Eardley's file. Can we have it back no? This bit will be
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Hermitage." 15 Q. When did he speak to the High Commissioner about that? 16 A. He phoned up the High Commissioner and asked for an 17 appointment, he got one the next day; but you have had the documents disclosed. 19 Q. Sorry, this is new to me. Is this in your witness statement? 20 A. You have had the documents disclosed to you, Mr. Rampton. 21 Q. Which High Commissioner are we talking about?
18 22 A. Diane Corner. Before he issued these proceedings, he went to 23 the British High Commissioner and said, "I am thinking of 24 25
legible. Goodness knows what he has written in it. (Same handed to counsel) Can you use the old one? We have looked at the Coca Cola one of 16th January. We are now going to look at one on page 168 to Jean Philippe Prosper who appears to be -- No, it is not written here. I am sorry, he sends it to -my mistake, he sends it to Mr. Mengi. You have addressed it
taking proceedings against Miss Hermitage in the UK." And Miss Corner said to Mr. Mengi, "Why would you not speak to her
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON to him, I think. No, I have to go one further down, have I not? You have written to Mr. Zoellick, who is President of the International Finance Corporation of the World Bank, is that right? A. I do not think he is now but he was at the time. Q. He was then President of the World Bank. If you look at page 169, you say at the bottom, just underneath the lower hole punch, there is a particular aspect of the campaign that is relevant to you and that is, as we can see over the page, we see there actually, IPP Media is owned and run by Mr. Reginald Mengi, the brother of Benjamin Mengi, and so on and so forth. Then yu set out the promises about the legal costs and his brother's behaviour, at the top of page 170. You say he did not honour these promises. Then at the bottom of the page, the penultimate paragraph: "Meanwhile, high profile journalists and publishers, such as The Financial Times. ...(reads to the words).... World Bank funded businessman intimidates British investors in order to grab their property." That is the same thought as appears in the Coca Cola letter, is it not? A. Well, I would have to repeat what I said to you in the Coca Cola answer, Mr. Rampton. One thing I would like to respond to, you say that I have been trying to bring Mr. Mengi down. Mr. Mengi has access to something like 20 media outlets in
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON first and try and resolve matters." spoken at length to the British High Commissioner and your husband, in a well intentioned attempt to see if a way could be found to resolve the problems you were having with Mr. Benjamin Mengi. that at all. version. Our version is that ---that he did not do that. view. He has a meeting, on his case, with your husband and with the High Commissioner where he expresses the wish or the will to try and resolve the differences by talking to his brother. What is the reward that he gets, looking at it from his point of view, he gets for his pains? He gets hammered by you on your website. demands from his brother which in his own evidence and on his own admission he did not have a clue what they were all about, showed no sign at all of being the slightest bit interested in resolving anything, so, please, Mr. Rampton, can we put it in
3 Q. Perhaps the answer is very simple, Miss Hermitage, he had
8 A. But he did not do that, did he, Mr. Rampton? He did not do 10 Q. Do not ask me questions, Miss Hermitage. That is your 12 A. No, but you are telling me that is what he did and I am saying 14 Q. I am trying to get you to understand it from his point of
21 A. My Lord, Mr. Mengi did not do that. What he did was reproduce
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON perspective. Q. Your perspective is unlikely to be the same as mine, Miss Hermitage, or Mr. Mengi's, so let's not argue the toss about that. You know what my perspective is and I am going to show you another of these attempts to persuade the World Bank that Mr. Mengi, put bluntly, is a crook. Could you look at page 174. This comes from a letter written, it is an email actually, 7th January, to Mr. Chemerinski. It starts on page 172, this is a day following the email to Mr. Zoellick. Why did you write to Mr. Chemerinski as well as to Mr. Zoellick, Miss Hermitage? A. Firstly, can you indicate to me where it is exactly that I accuse him of being a crook? Q. Sorry, on page 168 you send an email to Mr. Zoellick, the President of the World Bank. Now you are writing on page 172 in file 1.2, you are writing to Mr. Chemerinski as the Director of AgriBusiness with the International Finance Corporation, which is part of the World Bank. A. Yes, that I understand. What I am asking you is, can you refer me to the paragraph where I accuse Mr. Mengi of being a crook. Q. Yes, I said I am summarising and putting it colloquially. Please turn to page 174. It is the same old thing. The same one as Mr. Zoellick got, it is the same one as Coca Cola got,
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON first of the emails complained of, or shall I continue because I shall certainly finish before the adjournment, in any event. we take a break now and then you have the two emails, Bishop Hansen and Amadou Ba.
2 Q. My Lord, would this be convenient? I am now moving to the
5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: We need to take a break at some stage. Shall
8 MR. RAMPTON: And one or two other small things. 9 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. All right. We will take a break now 10 11
until 25 to 12. (Short adjournment)
12 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, Mr. Rampton. 13 MR. RAMPTON: Before that break, Miss Hermitage, you mentioned a 14 15
communication with Diane Corner, who I think is the present High Commissioner in Tanzania, is she not?
16 A. Yes, she is. 17 Q. In order to clear up any uncertainty about this, and in fact 18 19 20
to be fair to you, I will have a question about it. Could I ask you to get out Miss Corner's witness statement, which is in tab 16 of file 2.
21 A. I do not have a tab 16. 22 Q. You do not have a tab 16? 23 A. I have -- 5.2. 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: No, the main volume 2. 25 MR. RAMPTON: The big fat file. It is towards the end.
[Page 788]
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[Page 790]
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. She made this witness statement on 14th September this year. 4 Would you turn to paragraph 13. I think this is what you were
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Alexis Herman got, and here is Mr. Chemerinski getting the same thought. It is the second paragraph on page 174, "In our view", last sentence of that paragraph, "In our view it will not be long before a headline such as World Bank funded businessman intimidates British investors in order to grab their property." It is the same thought, is it not, whatever it may have meant? A. May I answer? Q. Yes. A. Big corporates are chasing to get into Africa, and particularly in light of the UK Bribery Act they are spending copious amounts of money on anti-corruption slogans, and good governance campaigns, and reams and reams of paper on their integrity. If that rhetoric is going to mean anything at all, then I think it is incumbent upon these companies, especially people like the World Bank that is funded by the UK Government, the IFC is the biggest provider of investment funds in the world, and Mr. Mengi has had copious amounts of loans from them, if their rhetoric on anti-corruption is to mean anything at all, is it not incumbent upon them to deal with letters such as this? Q. I do not answer questions. That is your evidence, I take, is that right? A. It is.
telling us about just before we broke, on page 284. A. No, it is not what I am referring to. Q. It is not? A. No, it is not, Mr. Rampton. Q. Let's read through it, shall we? You might want to revise that answer: "I first met Reginald Mengi when he came to see me in my office on 1st February 2010." That was the day after that posting on your website on 31st January 2010 in which you accused him and his brother, Benjamin, of stealing your farm, was it not? A. It may well be but that is not what I was referring to. I am referring to an email that Diane Corner sent me. Q. Yes, we have that in the bundle. We will look at that in a moment but it follows upon what she says here: "I first met Reginald Mengi when he came to see me in my office on 1st February 2010 ....(reads to the words).... I conveyed the outline of this conversation with Reginald Mengi on Silverdale in an email to Sarah [that is you] dated 3rd February." Now, Miss Hermitage, if you look at page 288C, just behind this statement, you will see the email to which she refers. A. Yes.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Q. That is what you were thinking of. My question is this. Do you find it surprising that at this date in February 2010, given that you had just posted a website posting accusing Mr. Mengi of corrupt theft of your farm and that you had written these letters to various people which we have been looking at, in January, and we are coming to the ones with the Lutheran Church in a moment, do you find it surprising that he did not think it worth, if that is what he concluded, that he did not have a meeting with you and your husband?
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Farm case or either of the Mengis." The impression given by that paragraph, Miss Hermitage, is, is it not, that anybody in Tanzania who wrote anything about Reginald Mengi would be intimidated or victimised by him?
7 A. By Into East Africa or by Mr. Mengi? 8 Q. No, anybody who wrote adverse copy about Mr. Reginald Mengi or 9 10 11 12 13 15 17
Mr. Benjamin but were talking about Mr. Reginald Mengi, in Tanzania, whether they be Into East Africa or any other journalist, would be intimidated or otherwise victimised by Reginald Mengi as well as Ben. That is what this means, is it not? I have spoken to, yes, it means exactly that. Into East Africa, do you not?
11 A. Why did he go and see the British High Commissioner? 12 Q. Sorry? 13 A. Why did he see fit to go and see the British High Commissioner 14 16 17 19
and not me? would say. I do not know. This was not put to him in cross-examination. I cannot answer for him. either.
14 A. In respect of the people who I state in my witness statement 16 Q. And you include in that group of people the journalists at 18 A. Do I? 19 Q. Yes. "One publication that I have written for, Into East 20 21 22
15 Q. Perhaps, Miss Hermitage, because he was afraid of what you
18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It was not put to him in examination-in-chief, 20 MR. RAMPTON: That is true. 21 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: At all events, Mr. Rampton cannot answer the 22 24 25
Africa, earlier this year informed me that they could no longer print anything on the Silverdale Farm case or either of the Mengis."
question, so we will move on. other thing I wish to ask you about before we go back to the last two or three of these documents. At the back of -- I am
23 MR. RAMPTON: No, I quite agree. Can we then turn, there is one
23 A. That is what they told me. 24 Q. Yes, but in context what that means is, they were frightened 25
of Reginald Mengi as well as Ben, does it not?
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[Page 794]
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. That is not what they said in the email, Mr. Rampton. 3 Q. It is not at all. 4 A. No.
1 5 Q. But that is the impression you are giving in this paragraph of 6 your witness statement. 7 A. The impression I am giving in that paragraph is that I have 8 spoken to journalists and other people in Tanzania who have 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON sorry about this but they are all in different files and there is nothing I can do about it -- at the back of file 3, keep the witness file open because I would like to refer to your witness statement in a moment -- in section E, at page 263, there is a series of emails between you and a person in Florida. I am coming back to those in a moment. First of all, I would like you to look, before I do that, at your witness statement, please, at paragraph 32. A. File number, please, Mr. Rampton? Q. Sorry? File 2. A. Page, sorry? Q. Page 12. I do not have the file numbering, I am afraid. It is paragraph 32, internal page 12. A. Yes, I have it. Q. You have said this: "I found that it is not only journalists who have worked for the claimant's IPP Media...." A. I am sorry, Mr. Rampton, I beg your pardon, can you refer me to the paragraph number? Q. Paragraph 32, bottom of the page: "I found that it is not only journalists who have worked for the claimant's IPP Media who are intimidated by and afraid to write about the Mengi family ....(reads to the words).... One publication that I have written for, Into East Africa, earlier this year informed me that they could no longer print anything on the Silverdale
told me that they are exceedingly afraid of Mr. Reginald Mengi and what he might do to them should they publish anything adverse to his interests. What Into East Africa told me is what is in my statement. Q. Your correspondence, and we can look at it if you want but I think you are going to answer, yes, I hope you are, your correspondence with Into East Africa which starts on page 263, at bundle 3, does not mention Mr. Reginald Mengi at all, does it? A. No, but then I have just said that. Q. Then why is it mentioned in this paragraph of this statement, which is made for this action brought by Mr. Reginald Mengi? A. Because I have said that I have spoken -- it is not only journalists who have worked for the claimant's IPP Media who have been intimidated. I have spoken to many people associated with the claimant who have told me exactly the same thing.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON you from Into East Africa, file 3, page 263.
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2 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: We have been taken to page 263, an email to 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And Mr. or Miss Polivina says, "We will accept any 6 7 9 10 11 12 13
correspondence which is not related to Silverdale or Nation Media Group." Who are Nation Media Group? the email that I wrote to AMI, Nation Media Group is headed by a man called, Linus Gitahi, who is a very good friend of Reginald Mengi and is also a director of AMI. Now, there was pressure from Nation Media Group on Into East Africa to stop any publication with the Mengi name in it.
8 A. That is quite significant, my Lord, because when we get on to
14 MR. RAMPTON: Are you putting that at Mr. Reginald Mengi's door. 14 15 A. Yes, I am. 16 Q. I see. Simply on the basis that he knows Mr. Gitahi, is that 17 19
right? Mr. Rampton.
18 A. No, it is on the basis of people I have spoken to, 20 Q. On the basis that ---21 A. Of people I have spoken to. 22 Q. Oh, I see, anonymous people no doubt. 23 A. Well, they are anonymous because one particular person 24 25
actually perceives her life to be at risk and I have to say I believe her.
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON why?" She responds at the bottom of the next page, backwards, 263: "Dear Sarah, there are two major reasons. First, the case is not that much interesting to the public ....(reads to the words).... which in the long run can only bring us harm." You ask in response: "What confrontation have you had with Benjamin Mengi. I am assuming you want no further writings from me." She responds: "I am not allowed to say anything further on this matter ....(reads to the words).... donated funds or any other topics apart from those two." She is quite willing to publish anything from you that does not touch on the Silverdale Farm dispute and therefore on Benjamin Mengi. It is Benjamin Mengi that she is a feared of, is that right? A. That is what she says in the email, yes. Q. I do not understand what this email string is doing in your witness statement. A. Because you asked for it to be disclosed. Q. Can we turn, please, to file 1.2, at page 158. I do not need those other files any more so you might be better to get them out of the way. It is easier. This is an email from you to, to put it broadly, the Evangelical Lutheran Church, is it not? A. Can you direct me to the page number? Q. Sorry, it is page 158. A. Yes, it is.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. In fact, Nation Media is owned by the Aga Khan, is it not? 3 A. It is owned by the Aga Khan, but it is headed by Linus Gitahi. 4 He is one of the most -- if you have read the blog you will
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[Page 798]
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. May I ask whether you got all those email addresses from? 3 A. I think I mentioned it in my witness statement where they came 4 from. They were obviously from the internet. They were
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see how Nation Media Group sought to silence me on the issue of Silverdale Farm, as far as to go to say they will employ legal counsel to shut me up. Q. This string of emails has nothing to do with Mr. Reginald Mengi, does it? A. Well, they say it has not, no. Q. We had better look at it. We do not want to speculate. It starts, actually, at page 266. I am not sure of the timings because of crossing the time zones. I am not sure quite how it happens. I was going to start at the bottom of page 264 with an email from you. This is a woman, is it, Zel Polivina? Yes, it must be with a name like that. It says: "Dear Zel" this is 10.52 your time, a.m. on 16th March: "Dear Zel, was the article I sent yesterday too sensitive for you ....(reads to the words).... she said that the quote in my articles was incorrect," and so on and so forth. She responds the next entry up on that page: "I have removed the quote from the High Commissioner as asked ....(reads to the words).... that we will not further follow the Silverdale Farm case. Sorry." You ask at the top of the page: "Please can you tell me
addresses which are associated one way or another with the Lutheran Church in Tanzania. Q. Including a medical centre and an aviation service? A. Absolutely. Q. Why? A. Well, the medical centre is the CCM Hospital in Moshi, Kilimanjaro. It also has a university attached to it which is funded by the Lutheran Church, in part, and I have two friends that are fairly eminent surgeons that go out on a charitable basis and teach at that hospital, so it has close connections with the Lutheran Church in Tanzania. The aviation centre, I think, is WAF or MAF, which is the Mission or Missionary Aviation Foundation in Tanzania which is a deeply religious aviation organisation which assists churches with their transportation and with their preaching of the church, basically. Q. What is your purpose, Miss Hermitage, in writing to all of these Lutheran people and Lutheran connected organisations in Tanzania? A. Well, to answer that question I think you have to go and look at the whole purpose of what I am trying to do here in holding
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Mr. Mengi to account. I think you also have to appreciate the deep significance of the church in Tanzania. I think recently there was an article published on witchcraft in Tanzania. The article was stated to be a threat to public security. Religion, when you are dealing with an agrarian uneducated population, which 85% of Tanzania is, they get their guidance, they get their teaching, and they get their truth from the church. They also get a lot of information from newspapers and they are persistently seeing Mr. Reginald Mengi portrayed, I think in a recent article he was portrayed in Kilimanjaro by Bishop Shoo as the hand of God, empowered with powers of God and you should support those in power with the powers of God, etc., etc. I believe that in the public interest this letter was justified. Q. You believe that in the public interest this letter was justified. Is that because you say that its contents are true? A. Well, I think when you are dealing with public interest issues, I think you have to make that decision of what is right and what is wrong, and I felt it was right. Yes, it was true, in my opinion. Q. It was true, was it? A. Whoever received this information they had a right as with all public interest communications to deal with the information as
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. What connection does he have with the Mission Aviation 3 Fellowship?
1 4 A. He does not, does he? I just explained that to you. 5 Q. No, he does not. 6 A. The Mission Aviation Fellowship is a staunch supporter of the 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Lutheran Church, it is funded by the Lutheran Church, and I believe that in the public interest Mr. Reginald Mengi supports the Lutheran Church financially. They have an interest in this information. Q. They have an interest, do they? A. I believe they do. Q. Whether you are right about that of course is something his Lordship will decide in due course. A. I think it is similar to ---Q. I am interested in your state of mind. I am not asking you questions about whether or not as a matter of objective reality they had an interest, that is a question for the court and not for the witness, and not for me. I am interested in your state of mind alone, that is all I am interested in. We have dealt with the question whether what you are doing is telling the truth or not. We dealt with that yesterday. I am now dealing with your state of mind, Miss Hermitage. I would ask you to look at page 162, middle paragraph, second complete paragraph, which begins: "Meanwhile high profile journalists".
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[Page 802]
1 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. "Meanwhile high profile journalists and publishers such as The 4 5 6 7 8 9
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON they wished. It was not some random, I think to use your words, spewing my poisonous libels around the countryside, it was carefully selected contacts of people who have an interest in the Lutheran Church in Tanzania. Q. Have you read Bishop Malasusa's witness statement? A. I have, yes. It is a shame he is not here. Q. It looks as though you have managed to pick out practically every bishop, perhaps every bishop in Tanzania for receipt of this email. A. I think that The Guardian and Nipashe are published in every area in Tanzania. Q. Where does Mr. Reginald Mengi attend church? A. I have absolutely no idea what he does in Dar Es Salaam. Q. No, no. You do not know where he attends church. A. If you will let me finish, Mr. Rampton. Q. Yes, go on. A. I said absolutely no idea what he does in Dar Es Salaam but I am aware of occasions that he has attended church in the Kilimanjaro region. Q. His son's funeral took place in a church at Moshi, did it not? A. Michami, yes. Q. Yes. I do not know the geography as you would have thought, and he lives in Dar Es Salaam? A. He lives in Dar Es Salaam. He has a house in Moshi.
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON
Financial Times and Africa Confidential ....(reads to the words).... In our view it will not be long before headlines such as, 'Lutheran Church leader/elder in Tanzania intimidates British investors in order to grab their property.' In the context of this letter, Miss Hermitage, that is a reference to Mr. Reginald Mengi, is it not?
10 A. It is a reference -- we have been through this in other ---11 Q. Is it a reference to Mr. Reginald Mengi or not? 12 A. It is a reference to what may potentially arise should the 13
situation not be dealt with.
14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Please answer the question, Miss Hermitage. 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. You picked him out ---17 A. In the context of the letter, yes. 18 Q. Yes, because he is the one you pick out on page 160 as being 19
the church leader and the elder, is he not?
20 A. Yes. 21 Q. This letter is all about him? 22 A. Of course it is all about him, Mr. Rampton. 23 Q. You are not going to accept, are you, Miss Hermitage, that 24 25
this is a question, not a rhetorical question, or not quite, that this is yet another attempt to do as much damage to
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Mr. Reginald Mengi within Tanzania and elsewhere as you could possibly achieve? A. That is simply not the case. Q. No. If we could turn now, please, to page 164, which is a little bit later. This is end January, 24th January 2010. 21st August 2010 is an email at the bottom of the page, page 164, to Mr. Amadou Ba. Yes? A. Yes, that is correct. Q. Of the African Media Forum, or some such -- sorry, African Media Initiative. They were going to have a meeting, were they not, in Cameroon, is that right? A. No, the African Media Leaders Initiative was going to have a meeting ---Q. Sorry, I did not hear. A. The African Media Leaders Initiative was going to hold the meeting. Q. That is right. You are quite right and Mr. Mengi was going to be co-chairman of that meeting. A. He was. Q. This email was an attempt, successful attempt as it turned out, to embarrass him or get him removed, embarrass him out of that role, was it not? A. Sorry, Mr. Rampton, is that the question? Q. You were trying spoil the party for Mr. Mengi.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON the Lutheran Church, Coca-cola, the African Media Initiative,
Commonwealth Business Council? Why? 4 A. Mr. Rampton, how do you think that sustainable development in 5 Africa is achieved?
6 Q. I do not answer questions. 7 A. Well, no. I am about to tell you what it is, and that will 8 answer your question. You have an organisation, for example, 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
like the Commonwealth Business Council, which is the business arm of the Commonwealth. Sustainable development is built on trust, integrity, respect and kept promises. So, how can you possibly feel that it is not appropriate that one of the most high profile men in Tanzania who, on his own admission, has envoys and Heads of State come to see him to assess the business climate in Tanzania, when he is actually using his media to destroy British investment? How can that not be a measured response? I do not have 19 media outlets. I have a
blog site and a pen. 19 Q. Yes. Can we just have a look at what the Commonwealth 20 Business Council thought of your intervention? Have you got
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that? It has been disclosed. It is the Kaul response, my Lord, that was asked for, and we got it from the Business Council, I think. Mr. Eardley has put on the bottom of the document where he thinks it should go in the file: 1.2, tab C, 180A. (Same handed) Have you got that now?
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. No, I was not trying to do that and if I might explain exactly 3 what I was trying to do with this because I think this is
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. I have. 3 Q. You have seen it before; yes? 4 A. I have seen it before, yes.
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actually quite significant? The Africa Media Initiative was born out of a programme which was incepted by the African Media Leaders' Initiative, which was funded by the British Government, by DFD. It was an initiative which was to further the accountability of media in Tanzania. I think their mission statement was something like "Media, integrity and accountability". It was also heavily supported and funded by the BBC. So, you have here an initiative for which the British taxpayer was paying. Now, Mr. Mengi was asked to co-chair this meeting. Now, Mr. Mengi, in my view, has used his media to destroy British investment in Tanzania, and that cannot possibly be compatible to holding him out with the mission statement of integrity and accountability that I, as a British taxpayer -- and you, indeed -- pay for. Q. You had put this complaint of yours, which involved Mr. Reginald Mengi, collaterally speaking, you had put this complaint of yours firmly in the hands of the British Government as long ago as 2005, had you not? A. But the British Government had been aware of it since 2005. Q. Of course they had -- both Dr. Pocock and Diane Corner; they knew all about it. Diane Corner was dealing with it in 2010. Why do you need to cast your net so widely, Miss Hermitage --
5 Q. It is addressed to you, is it not? 14th June 2010. "Dear 6 Mrs. Hermitage" -- it is from Mohan Kaul, who works for the
Commonwealth Business Council; yes? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. "I am sorry to hear about the concerns you have raised 10 regarding your legal dispute with Mr. Benjamin Mengi in
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Tanzania." How did they hear about the concerns you had raised?
13 A. I told them. I told every director on the Commonwealth 14 Business Council. 15 Q. Do we have any of that correspondence? 16 A. Well, it is probably with the rest of the correspondence from 17 Mr. Kaul and myself and Mr. Roger Gale, which perhaps it might
be useful for the court to see. 19 Q. Well, I have never seen what you said to the Commonwealth 20 Business Council, myself.
18 21 A. It has been disclosed. 22 Q. Anyway, let me continue. "I am sorry to hear of those 23 concerns. Regarding your legal dispute with Mr. Benjamin 24 25
Mengi in Tanzania, as you are aware, CBC has no relationship or link whatsoever with you or Mr. Benjamin Mengi.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Mr. Reginald Mengi, who is Mr. Benjamin Mengi's brother, is a director of the Commonwealth Business Council, but is not a party to the dispute. These matters do not involve the CBC, and I am sure you understand it would not in any case be appropriate for us to comment while we are the subject of legal proceedings in Tanzania or the international process to which you refer. The CBC will certainly take into account the outcome of any due process." That is correct, is it not, what he has written? of correspondence with Mr. Kaul. What Mr. Rampton has omitted to say is that Mr. Kaul actually has threatened to sue me and take legal action against me. That was responded to by Mr. Gale. So, it is part of a series of correspondence where it was pointed out quite clearly to Mr. Kaul that he was being evasive, and he was never asked to address Mr. Benjamin's Mengi's conduct; he was asked to address Mr. Reginald Mengi's conduct in his capacity as a director of the Commonwealth Business Council. It might be pertinent to know also that Mr. Mohan Kaul sits on Mr. Reginald Mengi's Board.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON As I said before, the Commonwealth Business Council is the business arm of the Commonwealth. Their most recent Commonwealth investment forum took place in Perth, amidst massive rhetoric of a new commonwealth, of a new accountability, of new business structures, of networking, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Mr. Reginald Mengi was listed on the programme for that forum as international business leader. He was also pictured with President Kikwete. Now, he sits on the board of the Commonwealth Business Council. It is a networking organisation of increasing investment in the Commonwealth; and if you have a breakdown of trust and integrity in that network, then you will never obtain sustainable development. Now, how can it possibly not be in the board of directors' interests of the Commonwealth Business Council that I am suggesting that one of their directors, of whom the Director-General sits on his board, has used his media to destroy British investment in Tanzania? How can that not be pertinent, given that every single member that I wrote to was a business person?
11 A. Yes. My Lord, can I just say, this is the first of a series
21 Q. How many people did you write to? 22 A. I can't remember. A significant amount of people. Are you 23
22 Q. One moment. (Pause) 23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: We have it at page 181, Mr. Rampton. 24 MR. RAMPTON: I see. So, mine is not in the file. 181, yes. 25
talking about at the board or at the forum?
24 Q. No. I am reading Sir Alan Fields' letter ---25 A. Well, Sir Alan Fields actually has resigned now.
Could you look at page 181 of the file you have open, 1.2.
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[Page 810]
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 Q. Please, please. I do not interrupt you. Please let me finish 3 my question. I am reading Sir Alan Fields' letter. I have
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON This is written to Mr. Reginald Mengi. This has been in the file from the beginning. It is dated 26th October 2010. "Dear Mr. Mengi, I hope this finds you well. I am writing further to discuss the recent CBC board meeting on 15th October regarding the correspondence and campaign by Mrs. Sarah Hermitage in connection with matters involving your brother. It is unfortunate that we did not have a chance to discuss this with you directly at the board meeting. I appreciate that this is a delicate matter. However, we are obliged to address it, since Mrs. Hermitage has directed her campaign also against the CBC and has been contacting CBC members, partners, sponsors and representatives of the British Government. I understand Mohan Kaul has also written to you in this regard." We have just looked at that. I ask my question again. You were hoping, Miss Hermitage -- this is your evidence, I think -- to get somebody to pay attention to what you were saying about the Silverdale Farm dispute, notwithstanding it was five years or more ago, and about the impact that that ought to have on investors in Tanzania. I am summarising. That is right, is it not? A. No, it is not right. Q. Well, what were you trying to do? A. I will tell you exactly what I was trying to do, Mr. Rampton.
not seen this correspondence. "CBC members, partners, sponsors and representatives of the British Government" -roughly speaking, how many people are in each of those categories? A. 10. Q. So, we are looking therefore at 10, 20, 30, 40 people? A. In one forum? Q. In one forum. A. No. Not in one forum, no. I would write to those people that were listened as speakers and anybody that was listed as engaging in a plenary session with Mr. Reginald Mengi, and a sponsor. In fact, to be fair, there is one particular sponsor that has stated quite clearly to the CBC that it will do no further sponsorship of the CBC until such time as this matter is sorted out. Q. Which sponsor is that? Thank you for that information. It is not in your witness statement. Which sponsor is it? A. I am not prepared to say who it is. The information was given to me in confidence. Q. I am afraid that is not a good answer in a court of law, unless you are a journalist. Are you a journalist? A. No.
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON Q. What is the name of the sponsor? A. I am sorry, I am not prepared to say who it is. Q. I note that the name is not given -- like the journalists. The sponsor, he is not afraid of Benjamin Mengi, this sponsor, is he, that you are talking about? A. Mr. Rampton, I am not prepared to say who it is. The information was given to me in confidence. What I am prepared to say is that the International Chamber of Commerce, who is probably the foremost anti-corruption organisation in the world, did tell me that they pulled out of Tanzania and closed down their Tanzania chapter, in part, because of the Silverdale Farm case.
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14 Q. Because of what, the Silverdale Farm dispute? 15 A. Because of the Silverdale Farm case. 16 Q. You have that in writing somewhere, have you? 17 A. Yes, I have. 18 Q. Why has it not been disclosed? 19 A. I am perfectly happy for you to have it. 20 Q. Well, well, well, well. Page 211, please. 21 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: While we are on the Commonwealth Business 22 23 24 25
Council and Sir Alan Fields, since the witness has been asked about page 181, did Mr. Mengi ever reply to Sir Alan Fields and, if so, has that letter been disclosed, and were there any minutes of the CBC board meeting on 15th October and have they
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON MR. PRICE: You have, actually. They have been disclosed. MR. RAMPTON: Have I? MR. PRICE: You may not have read them, but they have been disclosed. MR. RAMPTON: (To the witness) Did the letters you wrote to all those people at the Commonwealth Business Council defame Mr. Mengi, Miss Hermitage? A. No, because everything I said in the letters was true, Mr. Rampton. Q. No, that is not ---A. Well then, yes, they did. Q. They did? A. Yes. Well, they did to the extent that I explained what happened in Tanzania, and I have absolute consistency in what I have been saying. Q. Yes, yes. Did they make the same sort of allegations as we have seen in the e-mail to the Lutheran Church and the e-mail to Mr. Ba, the e-mail to Coca-cola, the e-mail to Mr. Zoellick, and so on? A. Well, they probably don't, in actual fact, replicate all of those; but if you give me the letter, I can explain to you what I have written. Q. You wrote one letter, which you then copied to 40 people or so; is that it?
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[Page 814]
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. No. There were different typesets, Mr. Rampton. They weren't 3 all identical.
1 4 Q. If necessary, we will pursue it. But at any rate, they did 5 make the allegation, did they, you made the allegation, did 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON been disclosed? because we would not have them. director. So, presumably, he receives them. not. (Pause) If it should be important, we can try and find whether there was a response to that letter. (Pause) Yes. We have disclosed everything that we were ordered to disclose in this connection. I do not have a response from Mr. Mengi, but I do have another letter from Mr. Kaul -- it has been disclosed -- to Mr. Mengi, dated 11th October, if your Lordship would wish to see it. disclosed ----
3 MR. RAMPTON: If they are CBC papers, they probably have not, 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I thought the witness said Mr. Mengi was a 7 MR. RAMPTON: He might do. I do not know whether he replied or
15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: So long as these documents have been 17 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, they have. 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: -- if neither side considers they are worth 19
putting in the bundle, we will leave it at that.
20 MR. RAMPTON: Very well. 21 MR. PRICE: My Lord, I am a little puzzled about this, because it 22 23 24
has not been suggested to the witness that anything she wrote to anyone connected with the Commonwealth Business Council defamed Mr. Mengi.
25 MR. RAMPTON: I have not seen the documents.
you, to all these people that Mr. Reginald Mengi had made promises, three or four promises, which he had broken? A. I think what I said to the CBC was that as part of their advertising brochure they refer to something called the Commonwealth Factors, which was integrity, trust, honesty, et cetera, et cetera. I then set out the position. I can't remember exactly what I said, unless you give me the letter, but yes, it would certainly have been something similar to that. Then I said, I asked them to consider, in his view, whether he felt that Reginald Mengi's conduct in that respect was commensurate with the Commonwealth Factors. Q. We are really at a disadvantage, all of us -- perhaps it is my fault -- as I do not have what you wrote, and I do not like to cross-examine you on a hypothetical basis. I have not seen what you wrote, so I cannot test your answers. Perhaps for the moment we can leave it there. Can I go on, please -- and this is the last thing I want to ask you about -- to page 211 of this file, 1.2? A. Yes. Q. 12th January 2010. It is a letter to Mr. Reginald Mengi from
[18] (Pages 811 to 814)

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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON you in England, I assume -- that is your English address at the top of the page -- to him in Tanzania, in Dar Es Salaam. "Dear Sir, Re Silverdale and Nbono Estates. I have written to the Chief Executive Officer and all board members of the Coca-cola company, the Commonwealth Press Union, the Commonwealth Business Council, the World Bank and the International Finance Corporation with details of your behaviour in relation to the above." You could have added the African Media Initiative and the Lutheran Church, amongst
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON time, since April 2007? to 2010 is three years. continuation of a media defamation campaign, is it?
3 A. You seriously want me to answer that question? Clearly, 2007 5 Q. A one-off broadcast or one-off day's broadcast is not the 7 A. I believe it is. 8 Q. You do? 9 A. What it says to me is that your client is not going to stop, 10 12
no matter how many years pass by. by Mr. Reginald Mengi himself?
others, could you not? 12 A. Well, if they coincide with those dates, Mr. Rampton, yes. 13 Q. The date is wrong. You had already written -- you are quite 14 right; you had not yet written to Coca-cola or the Lutheran
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
11 Q. Are you suggesting that that broadcast was prompted 13 A. Have I said that? 14 Q. No. Is that what you are suggesting? 15 A. Well, no, I am not suggesting that. 16 Q. Good. Let us go on. We will finish this letter now. "...and 17 18 19 20 21
Church or Mr. Ba. You are quite right. That was your intention. "I shall continue to write to organisations and individuals with an interest in promoting ethical behaviour in Tanzania until you honour the promise you made to the British High Commissioner at your meeting with him in 2005, namely, to stop the defamation campaign against us by IPP Media." I will pause there. The last of the newspaper articles, Miss Hermitage, of which you made complaint, and still make complaint, is dated 11th April 2007. This letter was shortly preceded, one or two days before, by a radio broadcast which you had secondhand information about from one of your former
pay us compensation in relation to your brother's vexatious" -- I should read it properly -- "the promise you made to the British High Commissioner to pay us compensation in relation to your brother's vexatious legal proceedings." If he did that, you would stop defaming him?
22 A. Well, I -- sorry, if he did what? 23 Q. If he paid up, you would stop defaming him to organisations 24 25
and individuals such as Coca-cola, the Commonwealth Press Union, the Commonwealth Business Council, the World Bank and
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON staff, Albert Moshi; is that right? A. Well, it was actually two former staff. Q. Never mind. One radio broadcast? A. Well, it was not one radio broadcast. My understanding of it was that it was a radio broadcast that was broadcasted transmittently (sic) throughout the day. Q. That may well be so. A. Well, I think it was so. Q. It may well be so. You do not know and I do not know, because you did not hear the radio broadcast. A. Well, I think it is very unlikely that our members of staff, one of them a 70-year-old man and the other one a man of utmost integrity, would bother to let us know if that had not been the case. We did actually try to get the transcripts, I hasten to add. Q. Please be patient with me, Miss Hermitage, and you will see that I am asking you about something rather different. There was a broadcast or broadcasts on 9th or 10th January 2010; you had it reported to you, and you did not like the sound of it, so you wrote this letter. Is that right? A. They were highly defamatory. Q. Yes. You did not like what was reported to you? A. Well, of course I didn't like it. Q. So, you wrote the letter. How many years was it, at that
HERMITAGE-RAMPTON the International Finance Corporation. That is what you say, is it not? A. No. Q. "I shall continue to write to organisations and individuals with an interest in promoting ethical behaviour in Tanzania until you honour the promise you made to the British High Commissioner at the meeting with him in 2005, namely, to pay us compensation in relation to your brother's vexatious legal proceedings." A. Yes. Well, I suppose ---Q. If I may, I will summarise it colloquially: "You pay up and I will shut up"; that is what you are saying, is it not? A. So, you are once again accusing me of blackmail, are you? Q. I am, yes, for two reasons: one, because you are demanding money in order to stop defaming him; but more particularly, because you knew perfectly well that he had not made those promises? A. Mr. Rampton, you know, what right have you got to stand there and accuse me of blackmail when you have not presented to this court one iota of evidence? It is as a repugnant suggestion as your junior counsel made to Master Rose, when he suggested that we did not suffer "as much as all that" in Tanzania. Q. Miss Hermitage, I have every reason to make that repugnant suggestion, as you call it. I have a client who gave evidence
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON on oath in the witness box. He swore, just as your husband swore the opposite, and so have you -- but you were not there -- he swore that he did not make any of those promises. It follows that either your husband lied to you about the content of the meeting or the pair of you have distorted what happened at that meeting. Do you understand?
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HERMITAGE RE-EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE
3 MR. PRICE: I have only one copy of these, because I do not have 4 copies, because they are not in the bundle. Can I hand those
up to you? 6 MR. RAMPTON: What are they? 7 MR. PRICE: They are the e-mails to the Commonwealth Business
5 8 9 10 11 12 13
8 A. And the question is? 9 Q. Do you understand? 10 A. I understand exactly what you are saying. 11 Q. You asked me what the foundation for my repugnant suggestion 12
Council. (Same handed) I think there are seven of them there, my Lord. They are my own copies, so their relevant parts are highlighted, and there are very few markings that I have made on them. I just want to ask, if I may, my Lord, Miss Hermitage about them. My learned friend has them in his
is ----
13 A. Well, it is a repugnant suggestion. 14 Q. Well, it is sitting there ---15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Now then, Mr. Rampton, Miss Hermitage. 16 17 18 19
hands now. 14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. Does the witness have them? 15 MR. PRICE: No. My Lord, I am terribly sorry. Can I ask
16 17 18
Mr. Rampton is putting suggestions to you, because those are his instructions from Mr. Mengi. That is his job. So, his suggestion is that you are a liar and a blackmailer; and this is your opportunity to answer.
your Lordship to give those back to the witness? I will do this in such a way that your Lordship is able to follow it,
20 A. That is not correct. 21 MR. RAMPTON: Not just instructions, my Lord; that is the evidence 22 23
and it will not take very long. 19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I see there are, as you say, seven recipients. 20 The first one is the then Lord Mayor of London and the second one is ---22 MR. PRICE: The first one should be to somebody called 23 Nicholas Anstee.
21 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The second is to Sir Malcolm Rifkind. Yes. 25 Give them to the witness. (Same Handed)
of the witness. (To the witness) You are not going to stop until he pays up on those legal fees; is that right?
24 A. I think it has gone way beyond that, hasn't it, Mr. Rampton? 25 Q. How much were the legal fees?
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HERMITAGE-RAMPTON 2 A. 6,000 dollars. 3 Q. Which is 6,000 dollars or shillings? 4 A. Dollars, at that point. It has probably cost us somewhere in
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[Page 822]
HERMITAGE Miss Hermitage? This is number 10 in this little bundle of disclosure. It is to Nicholas Anstee, and it is dated 26th July 2010. Who is Nicholas Anstee.
2 MR. PRICE: Just look at the first of those, would you,
the region of 150,000 dollars, and we have still got 12 cases outstanding in Tanzania. Q. You heard him say, when Mr. Price put it to him that, for him, that was relative peanuts, he could have afforded that, and his reply was: "It was not the amount of money, it was the principle. I wasn't going to pay when I had not said that I would." Do you remember him saying that? A. I do, and I am most happy to leave it to this court to decide who is telling the truth. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Price.
6 A. He was the Mayor of the City of London. 7 Q. Does this have anything to do with the Commonwealth Business 8 10 12
Council or the Commonwealth Economics ---Forum in London in 2010. to the Commonwealth?
9 A. Yes. He was organising the Commonwealth Economics Partnership 11 Q. Is this one of the e-mails that you sent which are connected 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. If you just look at the highlighted part of that e-mail? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And if you go to the last two paragraphs that are highlighted, 17
where it starts referring to Mr. Reginald Mengi.
18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Could you read those two paragraphs out? 20 A. Yes. "The relevance to you is that IPP Media is owned and run 21 22 23 24 25
by Mr. Reginald Mengi, the brother of Mr. Benjamin Mengi. As stated above, Mr. Reginald Mengi sits as a director of the Commonwealth Business Council." Do you want me to continue? "In late 2005, Mr. Reginald Mengi expressed his concerns to the British Government that the case involving his brother was
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HERMITAGE - PRICE damaging his own business interests and reputation. The British High Commissioner to Tanzania at the time, Mr. Andrew Pocock, stated that he was concerned about our reputation and about the defamatory statements appearing in IPP Media publications. Mr. Mengi stated he was not aware of the defamatory publications and that a CEO of IPP Media (i.e. not the editor), he could not be held responsible for them. He requested a meeting with my husband and Mr. Pocock at his home in Dar Es Salaam. It is my husband's clear recollection that at that meeting Mr. Mengi promised to stop the defamation, address his brother's behaviour and pay for the legal costs arising from the vexatious litigation started by the brother. Despite the meeting brought by Mr. Mengi, he denies making these undertakings; and far from diminishing, the defamation
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HERMITAGE - PRICE highlighted copies, so I would be helped if I get given a page number.
4 MR. PRICE: Well, I have not got a copy at all. 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I am not sure that it is necessary to go 6
through all seven, is it?
7 MR. PRICE: I can do this extremely quickly. 8 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 9 MR. PRICE: In relation to the one to Nonis, does that say 10
anything at all about the meeting with Dr. Pocock?
11 A. No; but then none of the letters did after ---12 Q. No. If you look through the next three, are they the same as 13 14
the one to Nonis? They say absolutely nothing at all about any undertakings?
15 A. No, they do not. 16 MR. PRICE: Thank you. Perhaps you can give those to his 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
campaign by IPP Media escalated from that point onwards." 17 Q. You say that despite this, he denies making these 18 undertakings?
19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Is there any part of the defamatory words which are complained 21 of in this action in that e-mail? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Then if you just look at the next one, which is to 24 Malcolm Rifkind, is this also connected with the Commonwealth 25
Lordship. (Same Handed) your Lordship knows, is in hospital in St. Thomas's, at the moment. He is due to have an operation at one o'clock. Mr. Price says that he needs to recall Mr. Mengi if the documents which we have managed to find relating -- do you remember, the resignation letter? He resigned from what I might call the Sovereign Fund Investment company in August 2007. We said we would get other documents about that. We
18 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, there is a difficulty. Mr. Mengi's son, as
Economic Partnerships Forum?
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HERMITAGE - PRICE 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. If you just glance at the last two paragraphs of the 4 highlighted bit, is that the same, or is it different from
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[Page 826]
HERMITAGE - PRICE have now achieved that. We have disclosed them to the other side. If those letters go in, says Mr. Price, he wants to cross-examine Mr. Mengi. Mr. Mengi should have an opportunity of dealing with the questions that arise.
what you have just read out? A. It is similar. I also say that despite the meeting, he denies making the allegations, and there is nothing else in there. Q. The next one should be to Lord Howell. Is that connected with the Commonwealth Economic Partnerships Forum? A. Yes. Q. Again, if you would just look at the last two paragraphs highlighted, is that the same as you have just read out? A. Yes. Q. Then the next one is to someone called Nonis. A. Yes. I think he is CEO of Aegis Security. Q. Is this connected with the Commonwealth Business Forum? A. Oh no, sorry, he is (inaudible), which is a Sri Lankan supplier of goods. Q. Has this got anything to do with the Commonwealth Business Forum? A. Yes. He was a speaker with Mr. Mengi at that Forum. Q. Right. Just glance through the highlighted bit. This is different from what we have been looking at? A. Yes. MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, it is very difficult. We do not have
5 MR. PRICE: I think the right way of putting it is that I think
8 MR. RAMPTON: I do not know what your intention is, Mr. Price. 9 MR. PRICE: Well, I am telling you. 10 MR. RAMPTON: I do not know why, and I have not read those 11 12 13 14 16 17 19 20 21 22
documents yet myself. But I would be grateful if Mr. Mengi could be allowed out now. I know your Lordship cannot sit tomorrow or the next day. It may be it can be dealt with on Friday morning -- I do not know. documents which have been disclosed very recently; is that correct? Mr. Mengi in relation to the National Investment Company from which he said he resigned in August 2007 when it became apparent to him that that company had invested in his brother's pharmaceutical company.
15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I have not seen these documents. These are
18 MR. PRICE: Your Lordship will remember some cross-examination of
23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Oh yes, the Vector ---24 MR. RAMPTON: No, it is not. 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: -- documents.
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HERMITAGE - PRICE 2 MR. PRICE: It is not Vector; it is the other one, National 3 Investment Company. At tab C, your Lordship sees the 4 resignation letter.
1 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 6 MR. PRICE: Well, yesterday evening we were given some more
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HERMITAGE - PRICE these documents do is trace the history of the resignation; it is as simple as that, I am told. I do not understand why it is controversial. to put them in. I do wish to put them in. of two ways: either I will further cross-examine Mr. Mengi, and it will not take very long, no more than about ten minutes; or I will deal with it in my closing submissions. But it seems to me to be only right that Mr. Mengi should have the opportunity of dealing with it. Mr. Mengi's son's health, I am quite content to take the risk that Mr. Price will say something that Mr. Mengi has not had a chance to deal with in his closing submissions. my Lord.
5 MR. PRICE: Well, the question is whether my learned friend wishes 7 MR. RAMPTON: Well, am I to say that I do? Yes, I am told that 9 MR. PRICE: Well, I am perfectly content to deal with this in one
documents. 8 MR. RAMPTON: Mr. Mengi, my Lord, having said in 9 cross-examination, in answer to my learned friend's questions,
7 10
he would obtain the documents, and he has.
11 MR. PRICE: Well, if I can put it this way. When Mr. Mengi wishes 11 12 12 to produce documents that he thinks support his case, they 13 14
come very quickly. We have had not a single document that we
13 14 16 17 18 20
have asked for. 15 MR. RAMPTON: What does that mean? You have got these. 16 MR. PRICE: We did not ask for those. They have been produced
17 18
15 MR. RAMPTON: I much prefer, in the light of the state of
because Mr. Mengi thinks they support his case. We do not get
disclosure when we ask for it and it is promised. 19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Price, what are you asking me to do? 20 MR. PRICE: All I am saying, my Lord, is that it seems to me that
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19 MR. PRICE: Well, there must be absolutely no complaint about it, 21 MR. RAMPTON: I hope that that was unequivocal. 22 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It is unfortunate that this was not raised 23 24 25
if my learned friend wishes to put those documents that arrived last night in, it seems to me to be right that he should be permitted to do so, and it seems to me to be only right that Mr. Reginald Mengi should have the opportunity of answering the questions that arise out of them.
earlier in the day but, Mr. Rampton, I think I must leave it to you. Either Mr. Mengi is tendered for brief cross-examination now or he is not.
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[Page 830]
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HERMITAGE - PRICE MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, are you seeking to put in the further documents? MR. RAMPTON: I do not know. My Lord, I have not read them, I am afraid. I have been busy preparing cross-examination. I am afraid I have not seen these. It is very difficult for me to answer that question. Mr. Eardley might be able to tell me whether we need to use them. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Just have a word with Mr. Eardley and see. Mr. Eardley. It rather depends what Mr. Price thinks he is going to make -- he is apt to cast suspicion, willing to wound, afraid to strike -- of the letter of resignation. If he is going to say that that is a fake, I may need to use these documents. But I do not know what he is going to say. Being a cautious lawyer, I had better not risk it. Would your Lordship forgive me? (Pause) Yes, I see. The position is this. Mr. Price's suggestion to Mr. Mengi was not that the document was a fake, but that he did not go through this stated intention of resigning from this organisation. that he saw the documents, was that the date on his letter of resignation was clearly wrong because it appeared to be at least two years out.
HERMITAGE - PRICE rather not make an instant decision. I would rather have five minutes, if I may, to talk to my client and to my junior.
2 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I agree. I see that very clearly. I would
5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Of course. 6 MR. PRICE: Shall I just finish re-examining Miss Hermitage? 7 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 8 MR. PRICE: I have only one more question. 9 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 10 MR. PRICE: Miss Hermitage, I think this may be ---11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Well, actually, Mr. Price, come to think of it, 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 21 23 24
10 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, it is not entirely dependent on
do not do that. Let Mr. Rampton have his five minutes. I will go away. Miss Hermitage, just for a short time more, do not discuss your evidence. Then we will finish off this issue and then we will finish Miss Hermitage's evidence. (Short Adjournment) has gone. We will deal with the documents as and when. be put in? in the Chancery Division; either recall Mr. Mengi or put them in and let Mr. Price make of them what he will in closing.
18 MR. RAMPTON: We will leave it where it is, my Lord. Mr. Mengi 20 MR. PRICE: Am I to understand that these documents are going to 22 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I was put to my election, as they used to say
21 MR. PRICE: On the contrary, Mr. Mengi's reaction, immediately
25 MR. RAMPTON: I do not know that that is on the contrary. What
25 MR. PRICE: I am concerned about this.
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HERMITAGE - PRICE MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I do not think it is that at all. If the documents are to be put in then, surely, Mr. Price must have the right to cross-examine on them. MR. RAMPTON: I am sorry, that may be, but that is not what he said. What he said was either Mr. Mengi is recalled or, if you do not put him in the witness box, he said he would deal with them in closing. MR. PRICE: There are quite serious questions that arise out of this. What I am worried about is that some other counsel at some later stage may say that this was unfair. going to say it is unfair.
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HERMITAGE - PRICE not?
2 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Do you want me to see the documents today or 4 MR. PRICE: I am quite content for your Lordship to see them. 5 MR. RAMPTON: We are not going to go through them. I have not 6 8 10 11 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
seen them myself. read them this afternoon. finish before the adjournment. (Pause) That is for his Lordship. Thank you very much. (Handed) my complaint that any other documents that we have requested have simply not been forthcoming. finished because the documents are, I hope, on their way. I wish to say one thing, however, now while Miss Hermitage is still in the witness box, if I may? We have been given, I was given, which I think probably we had had a day or two ago, but I have not looked at a folder from which Mr. Price extracted coloured copies to re-examine from. I do not know if your Lordship has that folder? You have the index, I know, at least. They are e-mails and letters, the one to Malcolm Rifkind and so on and so forth.
7 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: No, no, but I will take them away with me and 9 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I am sorry Miss Hermitage is still, we will
12 MR. RAMPTON: Some other counsel at some later stage? I am not 14 MR. PRICE: No, you cannot, but somebody else might. 15 MR. RAMPTON: I am simply not following this. Mr. Price made it 16 17 18 19
12 MR. PRICE: My Lord, I repeat, since we are dealing with this now,
15 MR. RAMPTON: I am going to deal with that when Miss Hermitage is
clear that if I was prepared to countenance his dealing with the documents in closing, then I did not need to recall Mr. Mengi. I have, therefore, released Mr. Mengi to go to the hospital.
20 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: He is entirely aware of that, is he? 21 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. I have taken instructions from him and talked 22 23 24 25
to Mr. Eardley and the decision was that we would let Mr. Price have his head in closing and we will deal with the documents as best we can ourselves. I make no complaint about that. I am not entitled to. I have agreed to it.
25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, I was handed those a few minutes ago.
[Page 832]
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[Page 834]
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HERMITAGE - PRICE MR. PRICE: Well, I would be willing to deal with this on Friday morning. MR. RAMPTON: Well, if my learned friend wishes to change his mind, that is perfectly all right. MR. PRICE: No, I am not changing my mind; it is just that I do not want there to be any question at any future stage that there is any unfairness about this to Mr. Reginald Mengi. MR. RAMPTON: I have only been doing this job for 47 years. I should think I would know what.... in, then if Mr. Price wishes to put questions to the claimant about them, he must have the opportunity to do it. It would have to be first thing Friday.
HERMITAGE - PRICE disclosed, they were disclosed on the basis (and I am reading from Carter-Ruck's letter), "...enclose a bundle of e-mails addressed to various individuals which we believe will provide both you and the court with a fair cross-section of e-mails referring to your client which our client has sent from January to date." So it is not an exhaustive clip.
2 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I only make this observation: when those were
9 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: No. 10 MR. RAMPTON: I notice about it (and this, perhaps, is important), 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 21
11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, if these documents are to be put
it does not contain Miss Hermitage's communication with Mr. Kaul, to which he responds on page 108(A) in his letter of 14th June. Maybe it was an oral communication, I do not know. She has obviously been in touch with him. Her letter or her e-mail, whatever it was, to him is not in this blue file. That is, perhaps, a document we should have, in the light of Mr. Kaul's response. different from any of the ---later ones are significantly different.
15 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. 16 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: That cannot be helped. So, if you do wish to 17 18 19 20 22 23 25
go ahead and put those documents in, Mr. Price, either now or when he has had longer to think about it, can let you know whether he requires the claimant to be recalled and, if he does, then it will have to be first thing Friday. not impertinently) an admirable solution. That is exactly what we will do. it. It will not take more than ten minutes.
18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Maybe. Is it likely to be significantly 20 MR. RAMPTON: I have no way of telling. Certainly, some of those 22 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Has it been asked for prior to today? 23 MR. PRICE: No, we were asked, but because suddenly the whole case 24 25
21 MR. RAMPTON: If I may say so, that sounds to me (and I mean it
24 MR. PRICE: I think that is probably the best way of dealing with
switched on to an injunction rather than damages, we then thought it was right to give a full disclosure of
[23] (Pages 831 to 834)

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1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 24
HERMITAGE - PRICE communications not complained of to other people. We did it in the way that your Lordship sees, by providing a sampling, a representative sample and that has never been queried. short; not for my sinister reason, but because I get bored of reading out documents. The letter goes on, "Although the wording of each e-mail differs according to the identity, individual or organisation to whom she writes, to a large extent the references to your client, which have varied over a period of time...." well, one has seen that, "...are reproduced in other e-mails sent at or about the same time. Disclosure of more of these e-mails would have been an entirely repetitive exercise, as I do not believe they would assist you or the court in the determination of the issues which remain between the parties." That is no doubt right. I have had an indication, something of an indication from Miss Hermitage in cross-examination how many, roughly, of these e-mails there might be and that is important. (inaudible). incomplete strings.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DISCUSSION damage as possible to our business interests. It was a racist, vicious, abusive attack on us in the Kilimanjaro region to drive us out of the country and I think it was wholly concocted by Benjamin Mengi, with the full knowledge of his brother Reginald and I would go further than that and say the President of Tanzania because he knew perfectly well what was going on. He knows what has been going on. He has been told what is going on by William Hague, by the British government and he does absolutely nothing to stop it.
5 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, to answer your Lordship's question, I stopped
11 Q. Mr. Mauggo described several of the aspects of the journalism 12 involved in that campaign as involving lack of 13 14
professionalism. Is it your belief that that is the
explanation? 15 A. No. 16 MR. PRICE: Thank you. 17 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. Thank you, Miss Hermitage. 18 (The witness withdrew)
19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Price, for that abrupt sitting down, you 20 are saying that is the defendant's case? 21 MR. PRICE: I think I was. Your Lordship is aware that there are 22 some further witness statements; one, I think, which 23 24 25
21 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Anyway, you would like this one more to 23 MR. RAMPTON: Well, being a geek about it, yes. I do not like 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: You are never a geek, Mr. Rampton. Mr. Price,
Mr. Rampton did not want to cross-examine on and then there are some Civil Evidence Act ones, but I do not need to read them out.
[Page 836]
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[Page 838]
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HERMITAGE - PRICE if this can be obtained, could it please be disclosed? The letter to which, letter or e-mail to which Dr. Kaul's letter of 14th June 2010 is a reply.
DISCUSSION court (and I do not think there is) who would like to read the statements which have been put in in writing, they have the right to do so. So, the statements of Miss Burns, who would have come, but was not required.
2 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: No, you do not. Should there be anyone in
5 MR. PRICE: Yes, my Lord. 6 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. Back to you and back to the witness. 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 16
I am sorry it has been so interrupted. you have given, Miss Hermitage, but could I just ask you to tell me, at the time you were compiling your blog and at the time that you were sending the e-mails that you were taken to, what was your opinion and belief as to IPP Media's actions in defaming you and your husband and whether that was connected in any way to Mr. Benjamin Mengi's campaign? campaign.
7 MR. PRICE: Correct. 8 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Dr. Pocock, Civil Evidence Act. 9 11 12
8 MR. PRICE: I think this may be apparent already from answers that
Miss Corner ---Dr. Pocock by video and they did not want to cross-examine him.
10 MR. PRICE: I think that is right. Yes. I think we offered
13 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. 14 MR. PRICE: Then there is Miss Corner and then there is a hearsay 15 16 17 19 20
15 A. Well, I believed it was wholly connected to Benjamin Mengi's 17 Q. In what way? This is your belief now that I am asking about. 18 A. Well, we were offered e-mails by Jackson Kimambo. Offered, we 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
notice for Sakina Datoo and a hearsay notice for Mr. Ngoya, in relation to his e-mail. (Pause) Yes, so that is it. It is Burns, Pocock, Corner, Datoo and Ngoya. the NICO material obviously should go in section C of that file, where the first letter already is.
18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The material handed in in the last half hour,
were offered e-mails by Jackson Kimambo. He offered to sell us e-mails from the claimant, which he said stated, "Print what you like. Get the investors out of Tanzania." I have been a accused of malice and I am, I think, permitted to say that I have spoken to people such as have informed me of what has been going on in Tanzania. I believe that it was wholly designed to do as much
21 MR. PRICE: I think that is probably right, yes. 22 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: What about the letters to the Lord Mayor and 23 24
Sir Malcolm Rifkind and so forth. Have Mr. Eardley or Mr. Barnes reached a decision on where they should go?
25 MR. PRICE: My Lord, they should probably go ----
[24] (Pages 835 to 838)

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DISCUSSION
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2 MR. RAMPTON: 1.2 is getting too full. 3 MR. PRICE: File 3 probably. Might they go in file 3 somewhere? 4 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I hate to intervene, but logically they go 5 6 7
with the e-mails and so on and so forth that are in section C of file 1.2, which are e-mails which are prayed in aid of the injunction, but are not being sued on as libel.
8 MR. PRICE: Yes, I think your Lordship has got a nice big 1.2. 9 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I would love to have one too. Mine is 10 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
DISCUSSION not get in e-mail. It is not a complaint, but who knows, I might want to pick out the odd paragraph and it is very useful to have them on e-mail. MR. RAMPTON: It is very powerful stuff. We will certainly send it. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Thank you very much. Right, Friday. (Adjourned until Friday, 16th November 2012, at 10.30)
collapsing. yourselves. I will follow Mr. Rampton's suggestion and put them in the end of file 1.2, section C. night with that little clip of documents relating to the National Investments Company Ltd. We have been given no indication that this has been dealt with as disclosure should be dealt with. We do not know how it has been done. I presume that somebody in Mr. Mengi's office simply picked out some documents and sent them. I think we ought to know whether we have seen the whole lot. It is a problem that we have been concerned about here because disclosure has not been dealt with as it does in a case where disclosure is done by solicitors based in England.
11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The rest of you will have to shift for
14 MR. PRICE: My Lord, I merely say this, but we were handed last
25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, well, the challenge has been set out,
[Page 840]
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DISCUSSION Mr. Rampton.
3 MR. RAMPTON: I heard it. 4 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I do not expect you are in a position to give 5 7
an answer now? will. I promise. I do mean that.
6 MR. RAMPTON: I am not. We will do the best we can. Honest we 8 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 9 MR. RAMPTON: That is all I can say. 10 MR. PRICE: There is a list outstanding disclosure requests and 11 12 14 15 16
perhaps they could be dealt with too, please? Indeed, disclosure orders, I think. Mr. Price, subject, of course, to anything which emerges on the subject of NICO when the claimant is recalled, we are then into closing submissions, starting with you.
13 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. Any other business for today? So,
17 MR. PRICE: Yes. 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It would be very helpful if you or Mr. Barnes 19 20 21
could let my clerk have the text of your closing submission by e-mail. If it can be by, say, nine o'clock on Friday, that would be very useful?
22 MR. PRICE: Of course. 23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, when the time comes, if you or 24 25
Mr. Eardley could let my clerk have your closing written submissions and, also, please, your opening ones, which I did
[25] (Pages 839 to 841)

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MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 842] 834:23 asking 748:14 761:14,18,21 770:9,9,23 772:2 774:4 787:20 801:16 816:18 827:19 836:17 aspect 766:17 784:9 aspects 837:11 assault 760:16 assess 805:14 assist 835:15 assists 798:18 associated 794:24 798:5 assume 815:2 assuming 797:7 assurance 760:23 762:2 770:7 773:14 778:13 Atlanta 769:11 atrocious 774:21 attached 754:17 798:11 attack 752:25 756:18,20 837:3 attempt 781:3,4 786:5 802:25 803:21,21 attempts 787:6 attend 800:13 attended 800:19 attends 800:15 attention 808:18 audience 779:23 780:4 August 760:4 803:7 825:24 826:20 available 747:16 749:17 aviation 798:7,15 798:17,18 801:2 801:6 aware 767:15 800:19 804:22 806:24 823:6 831:20 837:21 a.m 796:17 A4 781:16 B Ba 789:7 803:8 813:19 815:15 back 748:22 753:22 755:20 769:15,24 783:19 791:24 791:25 792:3,7 821:16 836:6,6 backwards 797:2 badly 781:20 Bank 784:4,7,18 787:6,16,19 788:5,17 815:7 817:25 Barnes 743:20 838:24 840:18 based 839:24 basically 798:20 basis 780:21 795:16,18,20 798:14 814:19 834:3 BBC 804:11 BEAN 743:6 749:24 752:17 754:15,19 757:24 761:14 761:18 772:2 774:3 775:24 781:9 789:5,9 789:12,24 791:18,21 795:2 802:14 807:23 811:21 812:5,15 812:18 819:15 820:14 821:14 821:19,24 825:5 825:8 826:15,23 826:25 827:5,19 828:2,9 829:22 830:5,7,9,11 831:2,20 832:11 832:16 833:2,7 833:25 834:9,18 834:22 835:21 835:25 836:6 837:17,19 838:2 838:8,13,18,22 839:11,25 840:4 840:8,13,18,23 841:7 beg 792:18 beginning 808:3 begins 755:4 761:21 801:25 behaviour 767:22 779:15 784:14 815:9,17 818:6 823:12 belief 836:12,17 837:13 believe 752:2,3 756:23 757:2 764:25 766:4 780:21 795:25 799:14,16 801:8 801:12 817:7
A able 772:24 821:17 828:7 abrupt 837:19 absolute 813:15 absolutely 776:14 782:21 798:8 800:14,18 825:13 829:19 837:10 abuse 762:13,14 774:10 abused 774:12,17 abusive 837:3 accept 749:19,19 763:8 795:5 802:23 acceptable 773:17 accepting 771:4 access 749:8 759:18 782:18 784:25 accessible 751:10 account 764:17 766:19 799:2 807:8 accountability 804:8,10,16 809:6 accountable 782:14 accurate 760:12 accusation 753:9 accusations 756:14 765:8 accuse 787:14,21 818:20 accused 790:13 836:22 accuses 754:11 accusing 762:21 775:17 781:3 785:9 791:4 818:14 achieve 782:12 803:3 achieved 805:5 826:2 Act 788:12 837:24 838:8 action 764:7 773:22 781:13 781:16,18 782:3 785:7 794:20 807:14 823:21 actions 836:12 actual 813:21 add 816:16 added 815:9 address 744:18
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810:3 811:22,23 Albert 816:2 Alexis 766:10 768:18 788:2 allegation 762:5 773:6 814:5,5 allegations 755:20 781:15 813:17 824:7 alleged 770:12 779:19 allowed 781:10 797:8 826:12 Amadou 789:7 803:8 America 769:10 AMI 795:9,11 amidst 809:4 amount 781:16 809:22 820:9 amounts 788:13 788:19 Andrew 765:12 823:3 anonymous 795:22,23 Anstee 821:23 822:4,5 answer 749:23 763:8 771:14 773:19 774:4,7 774:18,19 781:10 784:23 785:6 786:3 788:9,23 790:10 791:17,21 794:14 798:24 802:14 805:6,8 810:23 817:3 819:19 827:9 828:7 835:5 840:5 answered 759:17 answering 827:25 answers 814:20 836:8 anti-corruption 768:11 788:13 788:20 811:10 anxious 759:10 anybody 793:4,8 810:13 Anyway 806:22 835:21 apart 797:10 apparent 826:21 836:8 apparently 745:16 appeared 743:19
743:21 828:23 appearing 823:5 appears 750:8 783:23 784:20 appointment 785:17 appreciate 761:16 772:4 775:7 799:2 808:10 appropriate 805:12 807:6 April 748:16 759:9 772:13,19 774:20 815:23 817:2 apt 828:12 archived 749:9 area 800:12 argue 787:4 arguing 769:22 argument 747:14 arising 823:13 arm 805:10 809:3 arrived 827:22 article 744:10,12 745:3,5,15,16 745:19,20,21,21 746:2,6,11 747:2,11 748:9 748:12 749:15 750:18 751:13 751:16,17,19,24 752:4,6,12 753:2 755:23,24 755:25 756:5,13 756:15 758:6,13 758:17 760:3,15 760:16 772:10 772:11,12,13 773:2,3 774:19 774:21,23,25 775:5,16 796:18 799:4,5,11 articles 746:19 747:14 748:15 750:6,16,21 751:10,11 758:11,23 759:2 759:6 764:6 767:17 774:24 778:7,14 796:19 815:21 asked 751:19 766:6,7,23,24 785:16 796:22 797:18 804:12 805:22 807:17 807:18 811:22 814:14 819:11 827:14 834:22
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campaigns 788:14 capacity 807:19 carefully 767:2 800:4 carries 761:11 carry 752:18 763:13 Carter-Ruck 743:21 Carter-Ruck's 834:4 cartoon 770:20 case 743:24 752:7 752:20 755:5 756:9,22 760:5 760:24 764:2,20 768:13 770:14 773:11 775:9 779:4 780:6 782:15 783:5 785:2 786:15 793:2,21 796:24 797:4 803:4 807:5 811:13,15 816:15 822:25 827:12,17 834:23 837:20 839:24 cases 820:5 cast 804:25 828:12 categories 810:7 cautious 828:16 CBC 806:24 807:4,8 808:5 808:12,12 810:4 810:16,17 811:25 812:3 814:8 CCM 798:10 cease 760:24 762:3 centre 798:7,10 798:15 CEO 823:7 824:15 certain 783:10 certainly 752:5 757:15 765:22 789:4 807:8 814:13 834:20 841:5 cetera 755:6 809:7,7,7 814:11,11 challenge 839:25 Chamber 811:9 chance 808:8 829:18 Chancery 743:16
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 844] 829:10 831:4 837:23 838:11 cross-section 834:6 cuff 771:16 cut 761:17 769:9 C\allusers/docu... 746:23 D D 743:23 damage 753:11 765:23 783:11 802:25 837:2 damages 834:24 damaging 764:20 765:16 823:2 Dar 800:14,18,24 800:25 815:3 823:10 darker 757:19 date 744:21 745:5 745:10 746:6 751:12 761:6 791:3 815:13 828:22 834:8 dated 778:22 790:22 808:3 812:13 815:23 822:4 dates 766:13 815:12 Datoo 838:15,17 day 743:23 773:20 785:17 787:10 790:11 816:7 826:13 829:23 833:19 days 815:24 day's 817:5 deal 788:21 799:25 829:9,12 829:18 830:19 831:7,23 832:2 833:15 dealing 799:6,19 801:23 804:24 826:6 829:14 831:16 832:24 833:12 dealt 801:21,22 802:13 826:13 839:17,18,23 840:11 Dear 796:16,17 797:3 806:5 808:4 815:4 December 744:10 758:18 760:22 766:24 769:25 770:19 773:21 774:21 782:3 decide 778:9 801:14 820:12 decision 799:20 830:3 831:22 838:24 decks 778:6 deep 799:3 deeply 798:17 defamation 754:12 755:5,17 760:20,23 762:3 770:8,10 773:15 774:11 778:14 779:16 815:20 817:6 823:11,15 defamatory 744:15 750:6 756:2 763:25 779:24 816:22 823:5,7,20 defame 765:6 813:7 defamed 812:24 defaming 817:21 817:23 818:16 836:13 defence 752:25 defendant 743:12 743:21 750:20 defendant's 837:20 defends 760:5 definition 774:9 definitively 752:7 752:9 degree 762:23,25 774:2 delicate 808:10 demanding 818:15 demands 786:22 denies 823:14,17 824:6 denying 745:13 dependent 828:10 depends 828:11 Deputy 765:11 described 837:11 designed 836:25 desist 785:9 despicable 773:10 773:15 despite 823:14,17 824:6 destroy 758:3 759:12 804:14 805:16 809:18 destroyed 771:13 destroys 758:5 detail
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
764:25 765:11 767:3 785:12,13 785:15,16,21,23 786:4,16 789:15 791:11,13 796:22 815:19 817:19 818:8 823:3 commitment 776:5,8 common 768:16 commonwealth 805:3,9,10,19 806:7,13,19 807:3,19 809:2 809:3,4,5,10,12 809:15 811:21 812:23 813:7 814:10,16 815:6 815:7 817:24,25 821:7 822:7,8,9 822:12,23 823:24 824:9,16 824:19 communication 789:14 834:11 834:13 communications 764:12 799:25 835:2 companies 788:16 companies.mengi 771:13 company 765:3 766:8 768:12 815:6 825:24 826:19,21,22 827:3 839:16 compatible 804:15 compensation 749:16 817:17 817:19 818:9 compiling 836:10 complain 748:16 751:11 complained 754:10 764:7 765:14 778:24 789:3 823:20 835:2 complaining 759:7,24 complains 773:22 complaint 804:18 804:20 815:22 815:23 829:19 831:24 833:13 841:2 complete 801:24 completely
777:20 778:3 780:3 computer 746:24 746:25 747:3,4 747:7 computers 750:2 concede 777:14 concern 785:8 concerned 781:24 782:2 785:6 823:4 830:25 839:22 concerns 806:9,11 806:23 822:24 concluded 791:9 concocted 837:5 conduct 807:18,19 814:15 conferences 785:3 confidence 810:22 811:8 Confidential 802:4 confirm 744:22 confrontation 797:6 confusion 767:13 connected 798:22 812:23 822:11 823:24 824:8,16 836:13,15 connection 801:2 808:7 812:11 connections 798:14 conscious 752:12 consciously 774:6 consequence 762:17,19 consider 814:14 considered 780:8 considers 812:18 consistency 813:15 consistent 750:23 762:12,18 763:4 constant 779:25 contact 765:15 contacting 808:12 contacts 800:4 contain 834:11 content 750:5 819:6 829:9,16 833:4 contention 753:11 contents 799:17 context 770:18 771:4 774:14 776:14 777:5 778:4 793:24
802:8,17 continuation 817:6 continue 769:8 789:3 806:22 815:16 818:5 822:23 continued 744:3 755:4 773:15 779:3 continuing 755:16 contrary 828:21 828:25 controversial 829:4 convenient 789:2 conversation 764:22,23 765:21 766:23 790:21 convey 770:6,11 conveyed 778:8 790:20 cooperate 771:19 771:20 copied 813:24 copies 745:3 758:7 821:4,9 825:2 833:21 copious 788:13,19 copy 754:14,15 757:11,13,14,17 766:11 793:8 821:3 825:4 corner 746:4 748:6 751:21 757:5 785:22,25 789:14 790:16 804:23,24 838:9 838:14,17 Corner's 789:19 corporates 788:11 Corporation 784:4 787:19 815:8 818:2 correct 779:11 803:9 807:9 819:20 826:17 838:7 corresponded 783:13 correspondence 794:13,15 795:6 806:15,16 807:12,15 808:6 810:4 corrupt 773:23 774:5,9,10,11 774:12,17 775:3 778:16 781:3
785:9 791:5 corruption 763:23 771:5 773:25 774:14 776:11 776:17 777:8,10 785:2 cost 820:4 costs 767:22 784:13 823:12 couched 779:9 Council 805:3,9 805:20,23 806:7 806:14,20 807:3 807:20 809:2,11 809:16 811:22 812:23 813:7 815:7 817:25 821:8 822:8,23 counsel 781:9 783:21 796:7 818:22 831:10 831:12 countenance 831:16 country 776:12 777:9,12 837:4 countryside 800:3 couple 761:14 course 753:10 758:22 759:25 774:15,15,16 801:13,14 802:22 804:23 816:24 830:5 840:14,22 court 743:1,16 745:4,18,23 747:14 751:25 751:25 752:16 782:24 783:3,7 801:18 806:18 810:23 818:21 820:12 834:6 835:15 838:3 Courts 743:2 cover 757:8 co-chair 804:13 co-chairman 803:19 criticise 785:4 criticising 745:9 crook 787:7,14,22 crossing 796:13 cross-examinati... 744:3 791:17 826:18 827:9 828:5 829:25 835:19 cross-examine 814:19 826:4
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 845] 794:9 exchange 767:5 exclusive 777:21 777:21,23 Executive 768:18 769:10 815:5 exercise 835:14 exhaustive 834:8 exhibits 744:6 748:5 expect 840:4 experts 749:20 explain 804:2 813:22 explained 769:4 801:4 813:14 explanation 837:14 expose 763:23 expressed 822:24 expresses 786:16 extent 813:14 835:10 extracted 833:20 extremely 749:25 825:7 e-mail 758:7 813:18,18,19,19 822:14 823:21 834:15 835:8 836:3 838:16 840:20 841:2,4 e-mails 821:7 822:11 833:23 834:4,6 835:12 835:13,19 836:11,18,19,20 839:5,6 F fact 746:10 753:4 753:4 765:6 767:16 778:13 789:17 796:2 810:15 813:21 Factors 814:10,16 fails 763:23 fair 773:8 789:18 810:15 834:6 fairly 779:25 798:13 fake 828:14,19 false 763:11 family 792:22 fanciful 777:16 far 750:14 762:5 779:16 781:21 781:24,25 796:6 823:15 farm 745:18 755:5 768:13 776:15 779:4 790:13 791:5 793:2,21 796:6,24 797:12 808:19 811:13 811:14,15 farms 776:11 777:9,11 fashion 773:16 fat 789:25 fault 778:5 814:18 fear 775:21 feared 797:13 feasible 769:5 February 751:13 755:23 756:3 759:9 760:15 790:11,20,22 791:3 feel 805:12 feelings 782:19 fees 819:23,25 Fellowship 801:3 801:6 felt 762:11 764:20 765:15 769:5,7 799:21 814:15 Fields 809:24,25 810:3 811:22,23 fifth 769:25 770:2 file 744:4,14 746:23 748:21 748:22,23,23 749:18 751:17 751:18 753:22 754:17 757:3,7 766:14 769:24 783:15,17,19 787:17 789:20 789:25 792:3,4 792:10,11,13 795:3 797:19 805:24 807:24 807:25 808:3 814:23 834:15 838:20 839:3,3 839:6,13 files 792:2 797:20 finally 778:21 Finance 784:4 787:18 815:8 818:2 Financial 784:17 802:4 financially 782:16 783:5 801:9 find 750:25 752:6 754:21 782:23 783:3 791:3,8 812:8 825:22 finds 808:4 finger
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
835:15 develop 755:21 developed 758:21 development 805:4,10 809:14 develops 756:24 760:14 DFD 804:7 Diane 785:22 789:14 790:16 804:23,24 difference 762:20 differences 763:6 786:17 different 747:8 774:8 777:20 778:3 792:2 814:2 816:18 824:4,23 834:19 834:21 differs 835:8 difficult 747:9 753:20 754:4 756:11 771:22 824:25 828:6 difficulty 825:18 diminishing 779:16 823:15 direct 797:23 directed 808:11 directly 808:9 director 765:5 787:18 795:11 806:13 807:3,19 812:6 822:22 directors 809:15 809:17 Director-General 809:17 disadvantage 814:17 disclose 812:10 disclosed 744:24 785:18,20 797:18 805:21 806:21 811:18 811:24 812:2,10 812:13,16 813:2 813:5 826:2,16 834:3,3 836:2 disclosure 745:10 822:4 827:18 834:25 835:13 839:17,23,24 840:10,12 discrepancies 763:5 discuss 808:5,9 830:15 DISCUSSION
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760:10 drive 837:4 due 801:14 807:9 825:20 E E 743:23,23 792:5 Eardley 743:19 805:23 828:7,9 828:11 831:22 838:23 840:24 Eardley's 783:19 earlier 753:16 756:10,19 764:5 774:19 781:22 792:24 793:20 829:23 early 752:23 753:14 782:3 ease 744:7 easier 744:7 754:21 797:21 easily 757:20 East 785:2 792:24 793:7,10,17,19 794:11,15 795:3 795:12 Economic 823:25 824:9 Economics 822:8 822:9 editor 823:8 either 791:19 793:2,21 819:5 829:10,24 830:23 831:6 832:17 elder 802:19 election 830:22 email 743:17 783:13 787:8,10 787:15 790:16 790:22,24 794:2 795:2,9 796:15 797:15,16,21 798:2 800:10 803:7,21 emails 789:3,6 792:6 796:8 embarrass 803:22 803:22 emerges 840:14 eminent 798:13 emotion 782:19 employ 796:6 empowered 799:12 enclose 834:4 engaged 776:11 777:10 engaging 782:8
810:14 engine 746:20 England 815:2 839:24 English 744:13 748:18,19 769:3 769:23 772:16 815:2 entered 763:3 entirely 828:10 831:20 835:14 entitled 774:22 831:25 entourage 745:18 745:23 entry 746:14,22 796:21 envoys 805:14 equivalent 744:13 error 775:13 Es 800:14,18,24 800:25 815:3 823:10 escalated 754:12 779:17 823:16 escapes 752:5 especially 788:16 Estates 815:4 et 755:6 809:7,7,7 814:11,11 ethical 815:17 818:6 Evangelical 797:22 evasive 807:17 evening 827:6 event 789:4 events 777:4 791:21 evidence 743:23 752:20 753:3 763:10 774:24 775:5 780:14 786:22 788:23 808:17 818:21 818:25 819:21 830:15,16 837:24 838:8 evidently 762:21 exactly 746:10 766:21 771:13 787:13 793:15 794:24 804:2 808:25 814:12 819:10 832:22 examination-in-... 791:18 examine 749:20 example 753:2 805:8 exceedingly
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 846] harm 797:5 hasten 816:16 hate 839:4 head 763:3 831:23 headed 745:17 760:4 795:9 796:3 heading 763:23 776:4 headline 768:6,15 771:4,9,17,23 777:16 788:5 headlines 771:14 802:5 Heads 805:14 health 829:16 hear 772:15 803:15 806:9,11 806:22 816:11 heard 785:7 820:7 840:3 hearsay 838:14,15 heavily 804:10 held 782:14 785:2 823:8 helped 825:2 832:16 helpful 840:18 helpfully 757:7 Herman 766:10 768:18 769:13 788:2 Hermitage 743:12 744:2,4,23 747:13 749:8,21 752:5,24 755:12 756:22 757:2,20 760:21 762:5,19 763:8 764:14 767:2 769:3 770:5 771:22 773:18,24 777:12 778:21 779:6 781:19 782:21 785:14 785:24 786:3,10 787:4,12 789:13 790:23 791:15 793:3 798:21 801:23 802:8,14 802:23 804:25 806:6 808:7,11 808:17 813:8 815:22 816:17 818:24 819:15 821:1,12 822:1 822:3 823:1 824:1 825:1 826:1 827:1 828:1 829:1 830:1,6,10,14 831:1 832:1 833:1,9,15,17 834:1 835:1,18 836:1,9 837:17 Hermitage's 750:5 830:16 834:11 HERMITAGE-... 745:1 746:1 747:1 748:1 749:1 750:1 751:1 752:1 753:1 754:1 755:1 756:1 757:1 758:1 759:1 760:1 761:1 762:1 763:1 764:1 765:1 766:1 767:1 768:1 769:1 770:1 771:1 772:1 773:1 774:1 775:1 776:1 777:1 778:1 779:1 780:1 781:1 782:1 783:1 784:1 785:1 786:1 787:1 788:1 789:1 790:1 791:1 792:1 793:1 794:1 795:1 796:1 797:1 798:1 799:1 800:1 801:1 802:1 803:1 804:1 805:1 806:1 807:1 808:1 809:1 810:1 811:1 812:1 813:1 814:1 815:1 816:1 817:1 818:1 819:1 820:1 high 743:1 764:25 765:11 767:3 769:5 784:16 785:12,12,15,16 785:21,23 786:4 786:16 789:15 791:11,13 796:22 801:25 802:3 805:13 815:19 817:19 818:7 823:3 highlighted 756:2 821:10 822:14
770:25 finish 755:12 765:18 767:12 775:22 776:24 789:4 800:16 810:2 817:16 830:6,15,16 833:10 finished 769:9 833:16 firmly 804:20 first 744:6 747:5 748:14 751:21 754:3,24 756:25 758:10,17,17 764:6,8 769:24 770:2,5 772:18 779:18 781:22 783:13 786:2 789:3 790:10,18 792:7 797:3 807:11 821:20 821:22 822:2 832:14,20 838:20 Firstly 787:13 fit 785:11 791:13 five 758:11 759:6 761:19 808:19 830:3,12 flippant 781:8 Floor 743:15 Florida 792:7 folder 833:20,22 follow 772:17 796:23 821:17 839:12 following 753:18 755:13 759:7 787:10 831:15 follows 790:18 819:5 forcing 776:12 777:11 foremost 768:11 811:10 forgive 757:6 828:17 forgot 762:21 763:3,13 forgotten 760:25 762:4,9 780:2 former 815:25 816:3 forth 784:12 796:20 833:24 838:23 839:5 forthcoming 766:3 833:14 forum 803:10
809:4,8,23 810:10,11,12 822:10 823:25 824:9,16,20,21 found 786:6 792:16,20 foundation 798:17 819:11 four 814:7 freely 747:15 frequently 785:3 Friday 826:14 832:2,14,20 840:20 841:7,8 friend 750:10 795:10 821:12 827:21 829:5 832:4 friends 798:12 friend's 827:9 frightened 793:24 front 767:25 full 750:11 755:25 834:25 837:5 839:2 Fund 825:24 funded 784:18 788:5,17 798:12 801:7 804:6,10 funds 788:19 797:10 funeral 800:21 further 748:22 769:8 781:13 783:2 784:2 796:23 797:7,9 804:7 808:5 810:17 828:3 829:10 837:6,22 future 782:17 832:7 G G 743:23 gain 774:10 Gale 806:17 807:15 geek 835:23,25 general 758:16 geography 800:23 getting 752:18 766:13 788:2 839:2 Gitahi 795:10,16 796:3 give 748:12 749:16 755:2 813:22 814:12 821:16,25 825:16 834:25 840:4
given 769:5,7 773:19 783:4 791:4 793:3 809:19 810:21 811:4,8 825:2 827:6 833:18,19 836:9 839:16 gives 750:11 756:13 giving 794:5,7 glance 824:3,22 go 746:20 749:12 751:18 769:15 769:24 770:4 772:17 773:11 774:2 776:8 777:4 782:23 783:5 784:2 785:11,13 791:11,13,24 796:6 798:13,24 800:17 805:24 814:21 817:16 822:16 825:5 826:3 828:19 830:13 831:18 832:17 833:5 837:6 838:19,24 838:25 839:3,4 God 799:12,12,13 goes 835:7 going 747:12 749:24 752:17 752:20 755:19 758:18,20 764:25 765:25 766:12 769:21 772:11,14 774:18 775:20 776:20 780:23 783:22 787:5 788:15 794:14 796:14 802:23 803:11,13,16,18 817:9 819:22 820:10 828:12 828:14,15 830:20 831:13 833:5,15 836:24 837:8,8,9 gold 771:12 good 762:2 788:13 795:10 810:23 817:16 Goodness 783:20 goods 824:18 Google 746:20 750:2,13,16,25 759:5 governance
788:14 government 760:23 762:3 763:25 764:20 770:8 773:14 778:14 779:14 788:18 804:7,21 804:22 808:14 810:5 822:25 837:10 grab 768:8,21 769:2,13 776:15 777:18 778:16 781:4 784:19 788:6 802:7 grateful 757:12 826:11 green 757:23 group 793:16 795:7,7,9,12 796:5 groups 783:10 Guardian 744:12 747:15 753:15 773:2 800:11 guidance 799:7 guilty 778:16 H Habib 760:16 Hague 837:9 half 783:18 838:18 hammered 786:19 Hammond 765:11 765:20 hand 762:20 770:21 771:6,8 771:19,21 772:2 772:9 799:12 821:4 handed 783:21 805:25 821:8,25 825:17 833:11 833:25 838:18 839:14 hands 804:20 821:13 handwriting 744:15 746:7 Hansen 789:7 happened 762:13 770:16 813:15 819:7 happens 755:21 796:14 happy 811:19 820:12 harassment 755:4 755:16 776:17 779:3
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 847] 801:25 802:3 811:4 judgment 782:15 July 757:3 758:22 822:5 June 781:21,23,25 806:5 834:13 836:4 junior 818:22 830:4 justice 743:1,2,6 749:24 752:17 754:15,19 757:24 761:14 761:18 772:2 774:3 775:24 781:9 782:18 789:5,9,12,24 791:18,21 795:2 802:14 807:23 811:21 812:5,15 812:18 819:15 820:14 821:14 821:19,24 825:5 825:8 826:15,23 826:25 827:5,19 828:2,9 829:22 830:5,7,9,11 831:2,20 832:11 832:16 833:2,7 833:25 834:9,18 834:22 835:21 835:25 836:6 837:17,19 838:2 838:8,13,18,22 839:11,25 840:4 840:8,13,18,23 841:7 justified 799:15 799:17 K Kaul 805:21 806:6,17 807:12 807:13,16,21 808:14 812:12 834:12 Kaul's 834:17 836:3 keep 764:3 770:18 780:18 792:3 keeping 770:13 780:2 kept 805:11 Khan 796:2,3 Kikwete 809:9 Kilimanjaro 798:11 799:11 800:20 837:3 Kimambo 760:11 771:2 836:18,19 kind 752:21 756:20 766:4 knew 749:21 804:24 818:17 837:7 know 746:18,19 747:10 750:2,4 750:22 751:3,16 752:5 753:22 756:11,12 758:15 761:12 762:16 763:16 766:2,7 769:14 772:17 780:6,11 787:5 791:16 800:15,23 807:20 812:7 816:10,10,14 818:19 826:8,10 826:12,14 828:4 828:15,25 832:10,18 833:21,22 834:13 839:18 839:21 knowing 767:17 783:6 knowledge 747:21 749:25 837:5 knows 783:20 795:16 825:19 837:8 841:2 L lack 837:12 land 778:16 Lane 743:16 language 779:9 781:17 Lankan 824:17 large 835:9 late 747:22 752:23 764:19 766:20 770:3 822:24 law 762:14 782:18 810:23 lawyer 780:11 828:16 lawyers 747:8 775:15 lead 750:3 leader 802:19 809:9 Leaders 803:13 803:16 804:6 leader/elder 802:6 learn 780:4 learned 750:10 821:12 827:9,21 829:5 832:4 lease 776:11,16
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
756:21 highly 816:22 history 753:13 829:2 hold 803:16 holding 798:25 804:15 holds 773:19 hole 758:10 772:18 784:8 home 823:9 honest 781:7 782:24 840:6 honestly 764:23 765:2 768:17 honesty 745:4 763:7 814:10 honour 767:21 784:15 815:18 818:7 hope 756:22 794:14 808:4 829:21 833:16 hoping 808:16 hospital 798:10,14 825:19 831:19 hour 838:18 house 743:15 800:25 Howell 824:8 HQ10D04585 743:1 human 771:19 782:18 783:2 husband 763:6 779:10 780:12 786:5,15 791:10 819:2,5 823:9 836:13 husband's 823:10 hypothetical 814:19 I idea 745:7 769:11 770:14 775:13 800:14,18 identical 814:3 identity 835:8 idle 772:8 IFC 788:18 illegible 779:2 immediately 828:21 impact 782:15,16 808:20 impertinently 832:22 importance 776:6 important 812:8 834:10 835:20
impression 780:15 793:3 794:5,7 inaccurate 750:15 inaudible 824:17 835:22 incepted 804:5 include 793:16 included 755:5 including 781:3 798:7 incomplete 835:24 inconsequential 782:12 inconsistent 749:14,15 756:16,17,18 768:15 781:12 incorrect 796:20 increasing 809:11 incumbent 788:16 788:21 indelibly 753:12 index 833:22 indicate 787:13 indication 835:17 835:18 839:17 individual 782:8 835:9 individuals 815:17 817:24 818:5 834:5 inform 763:14 information 799:9 799:24,25 801:10 810:19 810:21 811:8 815:25 informed 792:24 793:20 836:23 info@martenw... 743:17 Initially 764:24 initiative 803:11 803:13,16 804:4 804:6,7,11 805:2 815:10 injunction 834:24 839:7 ink 744:8 innuendo 762:22 inside 757:8 instant 830:3 instructed 743:19 743:20 instructions 819:17,21 831:21 integrity 788:15 804:9,16 805:11 809:13 814:10
816:14 intend 770:6 intending 770:11 intention 770:13 770:15 815:16 826:8 828:20 intentioned 786:5 interest 799:14,16 799:19,25 800:4 801:8,10,11,18 815:17 818:6 interested 772:7 778:10 786:24 801:16,19,20 interesting 797:4 interests 764:21 794:11 809:15 823:2 837:2 internal 792:14 international 784:4 787:18 807:7 809:8 811:9 815:8 818:2 internationally 753:5 international's 774:9 internet 745:2 751:6 753:12 777:2 798:4 interrupt 810:2 interrupted 836:7 intervene 839:4 intervention 805:20 intimidate 769:12 intimidated 792:22 793:5,11 794:23 intimidates 768:7 768:25 777:17 784:19 788:6 802:6 intimidating 768:20 invade 776:11 777:11 invested 826:21 investment 758:4 759:12 776:5,7 776:9 788:18 804:14 805:16 809:4,12,18 825:24 826:19 827:3 Investments 839:16 investors 755:5 760:5 764:2
768:8,25 776:12 777:3,11,18 779:3 784:19 788:6 802:7 808:21 836:21 involve 807:4 involved 804:18 837:12 involving 808:7 822:25 837:12 iota 818:21 IP 750:17 758:25 IPP 746:16 747:2 747:16 750:7 751:23 753:11 755:6,25 758:3 758:6 759:12,18 760:5,6,20 763:23,25 765:6 765:24 766:21 767:4 770:24 771:5,10,11,18 772:5 773:23 774:17 775:3 776:13,16 779:17 784:11 792:17,21 794:22 815:20 822:20 823:5,7 823:16 836:12 issue 796:5 830:15 issued 785:22 issues 762:11 799:20 835:15 i.e 823:7 J Jackson 760:11 771:2 836:18,19 JAMES 743:20 January 744:12 759:8 760:24 762:4 766:8,16 775:21 776:3 783:14,22 787:9 790:12 791:7 803:6,6 814:25 816:19 834:8 Jean 783:23 job 819:17 832:9 JONATHAN 743:20 journalism 773:10 773:23 775:4 837:11 journalist 793:11 810:24,24 journalistic 760:6 journalists 784:17 792:16,21 793:16 794:8,22
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 848] 836:12 medical 798:7,10 meeting 763:5 764:24 765:14 766:19,24 767:18 779:10 779:12,14 786:15 791:10 803:11,14,17,19 804:13 808:5,9 811:25 815:19 818:8 819:6,7 823:9,11,14 824:6 825:10 member 809:19 members 808:13 810:4 815:5 816:12 men 805:13 Mengi 743:9 754:11,24 755:3 755:7,10,10,13 755:21,22 756:24 758:3,4 758:21 759:11 760:8,12,19,22 762:2,15,19 763:3,5,24 764:7,10,18,19 764:22 765:9,12 765:22,24 767:15,16,21 768:9,19 770:3 770:5,6,12 771:5,10,15,16 771:16,24 773:22,23 774:22 775:3,17 776:15 777:6 778:13,25 779:12,14,19,23 780:7,16 781:13 781:25 782:11 782:11,20 783:10,25 784:12,12,24,25 785:25 786:7,21 787:7,21 788:19 790:10,19,21 791:5 792:22 793:5,7,8,9,12 793:25 794:9,16 794:20 795:11 795:13 796:9 797:7,13,13 799:2,10 800:13 801:8 802:9,11 803:2,18,25 804:12,13,19 806:10,24,25 807:2 808:2,4 809:7 810:14 811:5,23 812:5 812:11,13,24 813:8 814:6,25 817:12 819:17 822:17,21,21,22 822:24 823:6,11 823:14 824:21 825:21 826:4,6 826:11,19 827:8 827:11,17,24 828:18 829:10 829:13,17,24 830:18,23 831:6 831:18,18 832:8 837:5 Mengis 776:10 777:10 793:2,22 Mengi's 769:6,7 769:11 770:20 771:7 772:4,9 781:2 782:5 787:4 795:14 807:2,18,18,21 814:15 825:18 828:21 829:16 836:14,15 839:19 mention 755:7 776:15 781:14 794:16 mentioned 779:19 789:13 794:19 798:3 merely 839:14 message 773:8 met 790:10,18 Michami 800:22 middle 763:21 770:19 772:17 777:4 778:4 801:24 Middleton 750:7 million 749:16,17 mind 754:22 778:10,12 801:16,20,23 816:4 832:5,6 minds 770:11 mine 757:15 778:5 787:3 807:24 839:9 mines 771:12 minute 774:18 minutes 811:25 829:12 830:4,12 832:25 833:25 mirror 764:10,13 misconstrued
777:11 leave 769:23 812:19 814:21 820:12 829:23 830:18 left 752:24 left-hand 746:15 748:6 legal 767:22 782:3 784:13 796:7 806:10,23 807:7 807:14 817:20 818:9 819:23,25 823:12 legible 783:20 Lema 744:5 752:13,19 Lema's 748:3,8,20 753:3 length 786:4 letter 766:17 777:16,25 784:21 787:8 799:14,16 802:8 802:17,21 809:24 810:3 811:24 812:9,12 813:22,24 814:12,25 815:23 816:21 816:25 817:16 825:23 827:4 828:13,22 834:4 834:12,14 835:7 836:3,3,3 838:20 letters 777:21 778:7 788:22 791:6 813:6,9 825:11 826:3 833:23 838:22 let's 787:4 790:9 liar 774:23 785:9 819:18 libel 839:7 libelous 773:23 775:3 libels 800:3 lie 770:7 782:24 lied 770:5,6 773:5 775:4 779:23 819:5 life 783:6 795:24 light 788:12 829:15 834:16 limbs 752:25 limited 749:25 line 768:2 lines 761:19 link 772:20,23
806:25 links 758:6,23 Linus 795:10 796:3 list 840:10 listed 809:8 810:13 listen 774:3 listened 810:13 litigation 823:13 little 748:2,5,22 772:11 773:4 780:24 782:4 803:6 812:21 822:3 839:15 live 783:5 lives 800:24,25 loans 788:20 locate 750:20 located 750:18 logically 839:4 London 743:3,16 821:20 822:6,10 long 768:6 788:5 797:5 802:5 804:21 812:15 821:18 829:11 longer 792:25 793:21 832:18 look 745:19 746:4 746:14 748:5,7 748:14,19 750:10 764:10 766:12,16 771:9 771:10 772:11 773:11 775:2,20 780:23 783:22 784:7 787:7 790:17,23 792:8 794:13 796:11 798:24 801:24 805:19 807:25 822:2,14 823:23 824:11 825:12 looked 783:14,21 808:15 833:20 looking 748:10,12 748:17 757:22 775:20 776:2 786:18 791:7 810:9 824:23 looks 745:11 757:15 769:2 800:8 Lord 744:13 752:21 754:14 761:16 764:22 765:13 772:4 775:23 786:21 789:2 795:8
805:22 807:11 812:21 819:21 821:9,11,15,20 824:8,25 825:18 827:8,20 828:4 828:10 829:20 830:18 833:12 836:5 838:22,25 839:4,14 Lordship 778:9 801:14 812:14 821:16,17 825:17,19 826:12,18 827:3 828:17 833:4,11 833:22 835:3 837:21 839:8 Lordship's 835:5 lost 781:19 lot 757:15 782:17 799:9 839:22 love 839:9 lower 784:8 Lutheran 791:8 797:22 798:6,12 798:15,22,22 800:5 801:7,7,9 802:6 805:2 813:18 815:10 815:14 lying 762:5,21 775:5,17 780:3 M M 766:10 MAF 798:16 main 778:22 789:24 major 797:3 making 765:8 823:14,17 824:7 Malasusa's 800:6 Malcolm 821:24 823:24 833:24 838:23 malice 836:22 man 752:19 765:4 795:10 816:13 816:13 managed 750:20 800:8 825:22 manner 774:17 March 746:5,10 747:2,16,22 754:8 778:23 781:24 782:4 796:17 marked 753:13 markings 821:10 Marten 743:15 massive 809:5
Master 818:22 material 749:9,10 780:24 838:18 838:19 matter 750:4 778:9 797:9 801:17 808:10 810:17 817:10 matters 750:5 786:2 807:4 808:7 Mauggo 837:11 Mayor 821:20 822:6 838:22 mean 745:2 747:24 751:7 758:24 759:4 762:17 768:10 771:9 774:8,13 778:19 788:15 788:21 827:15 832:21 840:7 meaning 769:23 777:5 means 749:5 758:25 764:3 769:17,20,20 776:16 777:3 793:12,15,24 meant 769:16 770:20 771:7,15 771:15,21 777:7 777:7,15 788:8 measured 805:17 media 746:16 750:7 751:23 755:6,25 758:3 758:6 759:12 760:5,6,20 763:23,25 765:5 765:6,24 766:21 767:4 770:24 771:5,10,14,18 772:5 773:23 774:13,17 775:3 776:13,17 777:7 779:17,20 782:17 784:11 784:25 792:17 792:21 794:22 795:7,7,9,12 796:2,5 803:10 803:11,13,16 804:4,6,8,9,14 805:2,16,17 809:18 815:10 815:20 817:6 822:20 823:5,7 823:16 Media's 771:11
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 849] 788:3 790:5,23 792:5,12,13,14 792:20 794:15 795:2,3 796:12 796:14,21,25 797:2,19,23,24 801:24 802:18 803:5,7,7 807:23,25 811:20,23 814:22 815:3 825:2 834:12 pages 781:14 paid 817:23 pains 786:19 pair 819:6 paper 761:17 788:14 papers 753:13 812:3 paragraph 749:3 749:13 750:11 750:18 755:2,8 755:11,14 761:21 764:16 764:18 766:20 767:6,8 770:2,3 778:25 784:16 787:21 788:3,4 790:4 792:9,14 792:19,20 793:3 794:5,7,19 801:24,25 841:3 paragraphs 761:15 773:4 822:16,19 824:3 824:11 pardon 792:18 part 745:15 749:3 753:14 754:25 761:8 767:4 775:13 778:22 787:19 798:12 807:15 811:12 814:8 822:14 823:20 particular 745:3,5 749:15 766:17 766:23 784:9 795:23 810:15 particularly 750:7 788:12 818:16 Particulars 754:17 parties 835:16 partly 748:18 partner 768:7,20 777:17 partners 808:13 810:4 Partnership 822:9 Partnerships 823:25 824:9 parts 821:9 party 803:25 807:4 pass 770:17 817:10 passing 767:20 patient 756:23 816:17 pause 755:14 807:22 812:8,9 815:21 828:17 833:10 838:16 pay 767:22 804:17 808:18 817:17 817:19 818:8,12 820:10 823:12 paying 804:12 pays 819:23 peanuts 820:8 pen 805:18 penultimate 775:22 784:16 people 749:21 756:7 759:10,23 771:21 774:22 778:8,8 782:13 782:17 783:11 785:4 788:17 791:6 793:14,16 794:8,23 795:18 795:21,22 798:22 800:4 809:21,22 810:6 810:9,12 813:7 813:24 814:6 835:2 836:23 perceives 795:24 perfectly 763:9,11 811:19 818:17 829:9 832:5 837:7 period 756:25 835:11 permitted 827:23 836:22 persistently 799:10 person 744:5 764:4 770:25 776:19 792:6 795:23 809:20 personal 760:22 762:2 765:8 personally 767:23 perspective 787:2 787:3,5 persuade 787:6 Perth
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
768:14 misleading 750:16 766:14 mission 798:16 801:2,6 804:9 804:16 Missionary 798:16 mistake 783:25 mistaken 752:4,11 modified 781:17 Mohan 806:6 807:21 808:14 moment 751:20 757:6 772:12 790:18 791:8 792:5,7 807:22 814:21 825:20 money 788:13 818:16 820:9 months 756:25 758:22 782:23 morning 826:14 832:3 Moshi 798:10 800:21,25 816:2 motive 780:10 move 756:22 791:22 moving 789:2 mutually 777:20 777:21,23 N N 743:23 name 765:16 771:17 781:2 782:5 795:13 796:16 811:2,4 Nation 795:6,7,9 795:12 796:2,5 National 826:19 827:2 839:16 nature 768:13 Nbono 815:4 necessarily 747:7 747:24 necessary 814:4 825:5 need 747:7 762:9 763:2 773:6 780:6 789:5 797:19 804:25 828:8,14 831:17 837:24 needs 825:21 negative 771:25 Neil 765:11 neither 812:18 net 804:25 network 809:13
networking 809:6 809:11 never 749:17 751:23 752:13 753:2 754:22 763:3 775:8 781:13 782:10 782:19,23,24 783:4 806:19 807:17 809:13 816:4 835:4,25 nevertheless 753:5 new 749:4,5,5 780:3 785:19 809:5,5,6 newspaper 753:6 779:2 815:21 newspapers 778:15 799:9 Ngoya 838:15,17 nice 839:8 Nicholas 821:23 822:4,5 NICO 838:19 840:15 night 827:22 839:15 nine 840:20 Nipashe 747:15 772:13,18 773:3 774:20 800:11 Nonis 824:14 825:9,13 Northern 766:18 note 811:4 notes 743:15 764:25 notice 767:20 834:10 838:15 838:15 noticed 752:13 notwithstanding 763:10 808:19 November 743:4 759:8 760:20,21 761:22 763:20 763:20,23 773:5 775:5 841:8 number 748:6 757:7 792:10,19 797:23 822:3 825:3 numbering 792:13 O O 743:23 oath 819:2 objected 747:15 objection 756:6
758:11 objective 801:17 oblige 757:13 obliged 808:11 observation 834:2 obtain 809:14 827:10 obtained 836:2 obviously 765:15 767:12 769:22 780:8 798:4 834:14 838:19 occasion 746:14 occasions 747:13 800:19 occurred 749:6 768:13 October 808:3,6 811:25 812:13 odd 841:3 offered 836:18,18 836:19,19 838:10 office 790:11,19 839:19 Officer 815:5 Oh 752:8 757:21 761:20 795:22 824:17 826:23 old 749:10,21 750:18,21 775:16 783:21 787:24 omitted 807:12 once 750:13 759:10 818:14 ones 783:14 791:7 834:21 837:24 840:25 one-off 817:5,5 online 749:17 onwards 779:17 823:16 open 744:4 766:16 792:4 807:25 opening 840:25 openly 763:13 771:5 operation 825:20 opinion 769:6 799:22 836:12 opportunity 819:19 826:6 827:24 829:14 832:13 opposite 744:18 772:18 819:3 oral 834:13 order 768:8,20 769:2,13 777:18
784:19 788:6 789:17 802:7 818:16 ordered 812:10 orders 840:12 ordinary 764:4 772:6 778:8 organisation 798:18 805:8 809:11 811:10 828:20 835:9 organisations 798:22 815:16 817:23 818:5 organising 822:9 originally 765:13 ought 808:20 839:21 outcome 807:9 outlets 784:25 805:17 outline 790:21 outstanding 820:6 840:10 owned 784:11 796:2,3 822:20 owns 771:20 o'clock 825:20 840:20 P P 743:23 page 744:6,8,11 745:15,15,16,18 745:22 746:5,14 746:15,22 748:6 748:13,14,19,20 748:25 751:2,17 751:21 753:24 753:25 754:6,7 754:11,20,24,25 757:2,4,5,10,25 758:9,9 759:7,8 759:21 760:2,4 760:7,10,18,18 760:20 761:2,10 761:12 763:19 763:21 764:7 766:14,17 767:7 767:8,20,24 768:2 769:24 770:17,17,19 772:18 773:18 773:19,20,22 775:2,21 776:3 776:4 778:21,22 778:23,24,24 781:16 783:15 783:23 784:7,10 784:14,15 787:7 787:9,15,16,24
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 850] 811:11 punch 758:10 772:18 784:9 purpose 756:5 798:21,25 pursue 814:4 put 756:13 757:7 763:17,18 771:16,17 772:24 773:16 776:21 777:16 781:19 786:25 787:7 791:16,18 797:22 804:18 804:19 805:23 820:7 827:11,21 828:2 829:6,8 830:21,22,23 831:3,7 832:11 832:12,17 838:4 839:12 putting 787:23 795:14 812:19 819:16 826:5 puzzled 744:23 812:21 Q QC 743:19,20 Quality 743:15,16 QUEEN'S 743:1 queried 835:4 question 747:19 755:12 758:16 759:14,15,16,17 764:14 771:15 774:4 778:6 779:22 781:7,20 789:18 791:2,22 798:24 801:18 801:21 802:14 802:24,24 803:24 805:8 808:16 810:3 817:3 819:8 828:7 829:5 830:8 832:7 835:5 questions 781:9 786:10 788:23 801:17 805:6 826:7 827:9,25 831:9 832:12 quickly 825:7 827:13 quit 776:5 quite 745:15 748:3 754:4 755:21 759:3 763:14 765:7,20 769:5 774:22 781:18 782:7 791:23 795:8 796:13 797:11 802:24 803:18 804:4 807:16 810:16 815:13 815:15 829:16 831:9 833:4 quote 796:19,22 R R 743:23 racist 837:3 radio 779:4 815:24 816:4,5 816:6,11 ragamuffin 758:7 raised 806:9,12 829:22 rake 775:16 Rampton 743:19 744:3,22 745:13 746:13,19 747:10 748:9 749:12,23,25 750:5,12,15 751:7 752:18,21 753:8,24 754:21 755:9 756:11 757:17,21 758:3 759:25 761:21 762:6,10 763:16 765:18 768:10 768:22 770:14 770:22 771:20 772:2,6 773:7 773:10 774:4,15 775:7 776:2,14 776:24 777:20 778:17 780:5 781:5 782:6,22 783:17 784:23 785:20 786:8,25 789:8,12,13,25 790:8 791:20,21 791:23 792:10 792:18 794:2 795:14,19 800:16 802:16 802:22 803:24 805:4 807:12,23 807:24 808:25 811:7 812:3,7 812:17,20,25 813:3,6,10 814:2 815:12 818:19 819:15 819:16,21,24 821:6 824:25 825:18 826:8,10 826:24 827:8,15
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
809:19 pharmaceutical 826:22 Philippe 783:23 phoned 785:16 photocopied 761:13 pick 800:8 802:18 841:3 picked 783:10 802:16 839:19 pictured 809:9 piece 754:24 755:22 773:10 pink 757:22 place 747:5 752:23 756:18 800:21 809:4 plain 769:3,23 platform 775:17 play 752:10 please 744:6,11 745:18 746:22 748:7,19,25 751:14 753:8,22 754:14 760:2,18 763:19 765:18 767:6 772:17 773:19 776:24 783:17 786:25 787:24 792:9,10 796:25 797:19 802:14 803:5 810:2,2,2 811:20 814:21 816:17 836:2 840:11,25 pleased 772:14 plenary 810:14 plural 776:10 Pocock 764:23 765:10,12,20,22 765:25 766:2,4 766:22 767:16 779:11 804:23 823:4,9 825:10 838:8,11,17 point 749:8 756:14 765:2 767:9 779:17 786:14,19 820:4 823:16 pointed 775:15 807:16 poisonous 800:3 policies 768:11 Polivina 795:5 796:15 population 799:7 portrayed 799:10
799:11 position 750:11 762:8 763:10,11 763:14 814:11 828:17 840:4 positive 771:24 possibility 757:11 possible 837:2 possibly 746:13 749:23 757:14 768:14 803:3 804:15 805:12 809:14 post 762:22 776:25 posted 749:5,5 791:4 posting 754:7 757:3 758:17,23 761:8,9,10 769:25 773:4,20 774:2 776:21 778:19,22 781:23 790:12 791:4 postings 752:22 754:10 764:8 773:21 777:21 778:7,24 779:18 potentially 802:12 power 774:10,13 781:2 799:13 powerful 841:5 powers 799:12,13 practically 800:8 practice 763:25 prayed 839:6 pre 749:9 preaching 798:19 preceded 777:2 815:24 precisely 777:19 prefer 829:15 prepared 743:24 810:21 811:3,7 811:8 831:16 preparing 828:5 present 789:14 presented 818:20 President 784:3,7 787:16 809:9 837:7 press 766:2,3 768:14 769:7 785:3 815:6 817:24 pressure 795:12 presumably 812:6 presume 839:19 pretty 769:2 prevents
745:17 745:23 previous 745:22 Price 743:20 747:13 750:10 754:17,20 812:21 813:2,4 820:7,14 821:2 821:3,7,15,22 822:2 823:1 824:1 825:1,4,7 825:9,16,21 826:1,3,5,8,9,18 827:1,2,6,11,16 827:19,20 828:1 828:11,21 829:1 829:5,9,17,19 830:1,6,8,10,11 830:20,24,25 831:1,3,9,14,15 831:23 832:1,2 832:6,12,17,24 833:1,4,12,20 834:1,23 835:1 835:25 836:1,5 836:8 837:16,19 837:21 838:7,10 838:14,21,25 839:3,8,14 840:10,14,17,22 Price's 828:18 principle 820:10 print 773:2 774:24 775:5 792:25 793:21 836:20 printed 760:15 772:12,16,20 773:3 774:20,23 printout 744:10 744:11 prior 834:22 private 774:10 privately 758:5 privilege 752:25 probably 751:7 758:25 765:2 778:5,5 806:16 811:10 812:3 813:21 820:4 832:24 833:19 838:21,25 839:3 problem 839:22 problems 786:6 proceedings 773:12 775:14 785:22,24 807:7 817:20 818:10 process 807:7,9 produce 827:12 produced
827:16 professionalism 837:13 profile 769:5,6 784:16 801:25 802:3 805:13 programme 804:5 809:8 promise 760:25 762:4,8,21 763:4,24 764:3 770:12,15,16 815:18 817:18 818:7 840:7 promised 774:23 779:14,24 823:11 827:18 promises 754:11 755:16 760:19 763:12 767:21 779:20 780:2,3 780:7,16 782:14 783:3 784:13,15 805:11 814:7,7 818:18 819:4 promoting 815:17 818:6 prompted 817:11 properly 817:18 property 768:8,21 769:2,13 777:18 781:4 784:20 788:7 802:7 proposal 781:20 Prosper 783:23 provide 834:5 provider 788:18 providing 835:3 public 797:4 799:5,14,16,19 799:25 801:8 publically 757:25 758:4 publication 792:23 793:19 795:13 publications 753:12 765:5,24 766:21 767:4 770:9 771:11 779:9,17,24 823:6,7 publish 794:10 797:11 published 753:5,6 753:15 756:15 779:5,6 799:4 800:11 publishers 784:17 802:3 pulled
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 851] 743:19 Rifkind 821:24 823:24 833:24 838:23 right 748:2 749:11,12 753:16 756:10 759:20 761:20 766:15 772:21 772:22 774:14 774:14 776:2 780:14 781:18 783:6 784:5 788:24 789:9 795:17 797:14 799:21,21,24 801:13 803:12 803:18,18 808:21,23 815:14,15 816:2 816:21 818:19 819:23 821:14 824:22 826:5 827:22,24 829:13 831:4 832:5 834:25 835:17 836:6 837:17 838:5,10 838:13,21 840:13 841:7 rightly 756:14 rights 782:18 783:2 right-hand 744:18 746:4 751:21 757:5 risk 772:6 795:24 828:16 829:16 Roger 806:17 role 769:11,12 803:23 roped 770:25 Rose 818:22 rot 785:8 roughly 810:6 835:19 round 752:8 765:22 Royal 743:2 ruined 782:16 783:5 run 784:11 797:5 822:20 runs 781:23 S S 743:23 Sakina 838:15 Salaam 800:14,18 800:24,25 815:3 823:10 sample 835:4 sampling 835:3 Sarah 743:12 744:2 790:22 797:3 808:7 sarcasm 762:23 762:25 763:2 sarcastic 763:2 sat 783:7 Saturday 756:3 saw 745:21 785:11 828:22 saying 750:23 752:7,9,15 762:20 763:6 770:6 771:23,24 774:6 781:18 782:7 786:12 808:18 813:16 818:13 819:10 820:11 827:20 837:20 says 749:3,17 750:12,17 752:13 756:21 766:4,17,22 768:22 769:17 790:18 795:5 796:16 797:15 817:9 825:21 826:3 scenario 769:4 Science 764:12 search 746:20,20 searches 750:2 second 755:8 783:15,18 788:3 801:24 821:20 821:24 secondhand 815:25 section 792:5 838:19 839:5,13 security 799:5 824:15 see 746:22 748:6 749:13 750:19 752:17 755:10 756:7,15,24 757:14,16,19 758:9 759:10,13 760:14,25 761:16,23 762:17,20 763:2 763:2 768:2 773:18 774:12 781:11 784:10 784:11 786:5 790:10,19,24 791:11,13,13
828:2,4,10,25 829:7,15,21,23 830:2,12,18,22 831:5,12,15,21 832:4,9,11,15 832:21 833:5,9 833:15 834:2,10 834:20 835:5,23 835:25 837:23 839:2,4,9 840:2 840:3,6,9,23 841:5 Rampton's 839:12 random 800:2 rate 814:4 reached 838:24 reaction 828:21 read 753:19 754:4 754:22 755:14 755:15 756:12 757:19 761:12 764:11,11 767:2 767:9 769:21 770:2 772:10,14 776:20,20 780:15 781:5,6 781:11 790:9 796:4 800:6 813:4 817:18 822:19 824:5,12 826:10 828:4 833:8 837:24 838:3 reader 763:14 772:7 readers 753:14,19 770:12 773:8 readership 780:6 reading 756:7 809:24 810:3 834:3 835:7 reads 749:4,6 764:12 766:18 766:20 767:3,15 770:3 772:19 773:5 775:4 776:6,10,20 779:4,9,15 784:18 790:20 792:23 796:18 796:23 797:4,9 802:4 reality 801:18 really 749:24 750:10 752:23 759:14 814:17 reams 788:14,14 reason 761:12 818:24 835:6 reasonable 772:7 reasons
797:3 818:15 recall 825:21 830:23 831:17 recalled 744:2 831:6 832:19 840:15 receipt 800:9 received 778:8,9 799:24 receives 812:6 recipients 821:19 recite 766:19 recognise 772:6 recollection 752:10,15 823:10 red 756:2 redesign 749:4,6 reed 753:15 reeks 782:21 refer 751:14 755:2,24 767:6 771:11 787:21 792:4,18 807:8 814:9 reference 744:7 748:13 755:10 755:13 757:2 760:7,9,12 768:9,10 802:8 802:10,11,12 references 835:10 referred 755:9 referring 766:25 790:6,15,16 822:17 834:7 refers 790:24 reflect 781:20 regard 808:15 regarding 756:3 806:10,23 808:6 Reginald 743:9 754:24 755:3,7 755:10,10,13 756:24 758:3,4 759:11 760:8,19 760:22 762:2,15 763:24 764:10 764:19 768:9,19 770:3 771:5,10 773:23 775:3 779:19 781:2,25 782:5,11,20 783:10 784:11 790:10,19,21 793:5,8,9,12,25 794:9,16,20 795:11,14 796:8 799:10 800:13
801:8 802:9,11 803:2 804:19 807:2,18,21 808:2 809:7 810:14 814:6,15 814:25 817:12 822:17,21,22,24 827:24 832:8 837:6 region 800:20 820:5 837:4 related 795:6 relating 825:22 839:15 relation 815:9 817:17,20 818:9 825:9 826:19 838:16 relationship 806:24 relative 820:8 release 766:2,3 released 831:18 relevance 822:20 relevant 784:10 821:9 Religion 799:6 religious 798:17 remain 835:16 remained 750:19 remark 767:16 remember 745:8 745:14 756:9 765:3 777:16 809:22 814:12 820:11 825:23 826:18 remind 758:20 774:22 removed 796:22 803:22 render 782:16 reneged 764:3 reneges 760:19 repeat 773:6 784:22 833:12 repeatedly 775:16 repetitive 835:14 replicate 813:21 replied 766:3 812:7 reply 752:24,25 756:18,20 811:23 820:9 836:4 reported 764:19 765:5 770:3 816:20,23 reporter 771:2,6 representative
835:4 representatives 808:13 810:5 reprint 779:2 reprinted 755:23 reprinting 756:5 reproduce 786:21 reproduced 835:12 reproduces 756:14 repugnant 818:21 818:24 819:11 819:13 reputation 765:23 823:2,4 requested 779:10 779:12 823:9 833:13 requests 840:10 required 838:6 requires 832:19 resignation 825:23 827:4 828:13,23 829:2 resigned 809:25 825:23 826:20 resigning 828:20 resolve 786:2,6,17 resolving 786:25 respect 750:22 762:12 781:17 793:14 805:11 814:15 respond 784:23 responded 807:14 responds 796:21 797:2,8 834:12 response 750:6 782:10 797:6 805:17,21 812:9 812:11 834:17 responsible 767:17 823:8 rest 757:17 806:16 839:11 result 768:14 reveal 764:13 revise 790:9 reward 786:18 re-examine 833:21 RE-EXAMINED 821:2 re-examining 830:6 rhetoric 776:9 788:15,20 809:5 rhetorical 764:13 802:24 RICHARD
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 852] 817:23 818:16 819:22 823:11 837:10 stopped 835:5 stories 749:4 story 749:5 777:2 777:3,5 Strand 743:3 stressed 776:6 strike 828:13 string 796:8 797:16 strings 835:24 structures 809:6 strung 771:6 stuff 841:5 subject 807:6 840:14,15 submission 840:19 submissions 829:12,18 840:16,25 successful 781:3 803:21 suddenly 779:18 834:23 sue 807:13 sued 758:12,15,17 760:3 839:7 suffer 818:23 sufficient 763:14 suggest 768:12 773:16 780:23 780:24 783:9 suggested 812:22 818:22 suggesting 752:22 769:20 776:19 776:24,25 777:15 782:6 809:16 817:11 817:14,15 suggestion 763:9 778:20 818:21 818:25 819:11 819:13,18 828:18 839:12 suggestions 819:16 summarise 818:12 summarised 758:11 759:7,21 summarising 787:23 808:21 Sunday 776:3 supplier 824:18 support 776:17 777:8 799:13 827:12,17 supported 804:10 supporter 801:6 supports 757:25 758:4 771:5 801:9 suppose 749:21 818:11 supposed 748:10 748:12 769:13 sure 765:20 766:13 796:12 796:13 807:5 825:5 surely 746:18 773:8 831:3 surgeons 798:13 surprising 791:3,8 suspicion 828:12 sustainable 805:4 805:10 809:14 Swahili 748:15,18 772:14 773:3 switched 834:24 swore 819:2,3,4 T tab 744:4 751:21 754:3 789:20,21 789:22 805:25 827:3 take 756:5 767:9 770:21 772:8 788:23 789:5,6 789:9 807:8,14 821:18 829:11 829:16 832:25 833:7 taken 781:17 795:2 831:21 836:11 talk 830:4 talked 831:21 talking 751:16 759:11 781:15 782:2 785:21 786:17 793:9 809:23 811:6 tame 771:6 Tanzania 765:6 765:11,24 766:19 767:3 768:7,20 769:6 782:17,18 783:2 789:15 793:4,10 794:8 798:6,15 798:17,23 799:3 799:4,7 800:5,9 800:12 802:6 803:2 804:8,14 805:13,15 806:11,24 807:7
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
795:16,22 796:5 805:14 806:18 807:24 812:14 816:17 821:19 828:9,17 830:2 833:2,4 seeing 799:10 seeking 828:2 seen 764:17 806:3 806:4,19 810:4 812:25 813:18 814:19 826:15 828:6 833:6 835:11 839:21 sees 827:3 835:3 selected 800:4 sell 836:19 send 787:15 841:5 sending 836:11 sends 783:24,25 sense 768:16 774:12 sensitive 796:18 sent 790:16 796:18 822:11 834:7 835:12 839:20 sentence 750:11 750:12 770:2 788:4 separate 748:23 September 745:17 746:11 750:19 760:18 761:3,4 761:8 790:3 series 777:3 792:6 807:11,15 serious 762:11 831:9 seriously 817:3 service 798:7 session 810:14 set 762:13,13,14 762:14 776:7 781:22 784:13 814:11 839:25 seven 821:8,19 825:6 shame 800:7 Sharks 785:2 shift 839:11 shillings 749:16 820:3 Shoo 799:12 short 789:11 830:14,17 835:6 shortly 755:21 766:12 780:24 815:23 show 751:17,20
787:5 showed 786:24 shown 751:24 752:3 shut 796:7 818:13 sic 816:7 side 744:18 746:15 812:18 826:3 sign 786:24 significance 752:24 799:3 significant 756:25 795:8 804:4 809:22 significantly 834:18,21 silence 796:5 Silverdale 755:5 760:5,24 764:2 764:20 768:13 779:4 790:21 792:25 793:21 795:6 796:6,24 797:12 808:19 811:13,14,15 815:4 similar 801:15 814:13 824:6 simple 763:12 785:6 786:3 829:3 simplistic 774:11 simply 769:14 795:16 803:4 831:15 833:14 839:19 sincere 780:17,18 781:7 782:25 single 776:21 809:19 827:13 sinister 780:10 835:6 Sir 809:24,25 810:3 811:22,23 815:4 821:24 838:23 sit 826:12 site 778:4 785:4 805:18 sits 807:21 809:10 809:17 822:22 sitting 781:15 782:13 819:14 837:19 situation 768:10 769:8 802:13 six 782:22 skip 764:16 slightest 786:24 slogans
788:13 small 789:8 solicitors 839:24 solution 832:22 somebody 752:11 757:7 808:18 821:22 831:14 839:19 son 825:18 son's 800:21 829:16 soon 781:12,16 sorry 745:20 747:4 748:9,11 753:18 755:2,9 757:4,7 758:12 759:14,16 760:9 761:6 765:19 767:7 772:22 777:22 779:22 783:18,24 785:19 787:15 791:12 792:2,11 792:12,18 796:24 797:24 803:10,15,24 806:9,22 811:3 817:22 821:15 824:17 831:5 833:9 836:7 sort 813:17 sorted 810:18 sought 796:5 sound 816:20 sounds 832:21 Source 772:18 Sovereign 825:24 speak 785:11,12 785:13,15,25 speaker 824:21 speakers 810:13 speaking 804:19 810:6 special 750:8 speculate 796:11 spending 788:12 spewing 800:3 spoil 803:25 spoke 765:4 spoken 786:4 793:15 794:8,21 794:23 795:18 795:21 836:23 sponsor 810:15,15 810:19,20 811:2 811:5,5 sponsors 808:13 810:5 sponsorship 810:17 square
773:9 Sri 824:17 St 825:19 staff 816:2,3,12 stage 789:5 831:11,12 832:7 stand 773:12 782:22 818:19 start 770:17 796:14 started 762:10,11 781:21 823:13 starting 758:10,22 768:4 778:22 840:16 starts 761:10 779:25 781:25 787:9 794:15 796:12 822:17 state 773:12 793:14 801:16 801:20,23 805:14 829:15 stated 765:21,25 767:15 799:5 810:16 822:22 823:4,6 828:20 836:20 statement 744:5 747:19 748:3,8 748:20 749:13 750:17,24 763:12 766:5,22 769:16 775:12 785:19 789:19 790:3,24 792:5 792:9 793:14 794:6,12,19 797:17 798:3 800:6 804:9,16 810:20 statements 756:2 823:5 837:22 838:4,5 stations 779:5 staunch 801:6 steal 776:11,16 777:8,11 stealing 790:13 Stenograph/Sho... 743:15 step 769:15 770:4 773:24 774:5 stepping 774:6 stop 762:7 763:25 770:8,9,10 773:14,15 778:14 779:24 785:8 795:12 815:20 817:9,21
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 853] unfair 831:11,13 unfairness 832:8 unfortunate 808:8 829:22 Union 815:6 817:25 university 798:11 untrue 744:14 URL 772:25 use 771:23 774:5 775:16 783:9,21 785:7 800:2 828:8,14 useful 806:18 840:21 841:4 uses 758:3 759:11 utmost 816:14 V valuable 756:23 varied 835:10 various 791:6 834:5 Vector 826:23 827:2 venom 782:21 version 774:20 786:11,11 vexatious 817:18 817:20 818:9 823:13 vicious 837:3 victimised 793:5 793:11 video 838:11 view 762:23 763:16 768:4,6 776:16 786:15 786:19 788:4,4 802:5 804:13 814:14 virtue 769:22 visit 745:18 voice 785:4 volume 789:24 W WAF 798:16 walk 783:7 Walsh 743:15 want 749:19 759:13 766:13 780:11 781:8 790:9 794:13 796:11 797:7 814:22 817:3 821:11 822:23 832:7 833:2 837:23 838:11 841:3 wanted 758:15 777:6 780:8 wants 785:8 826:3 wasn't 820:10 water 773:19 way 755:20 759:2 767:13 772:8 775:11 782:5 786:5 797:21 798:5 819:24 821:17 826:5 827:11 832:24 833:16 834:20 835:3 836:14,17 ways 829:10 WC2A 743:3,16 web 747:25 748:4 748:9,12 751:4 779:5,6 website 744:18 746:15,20 747:2 747:5,16,23 749:6,22 750:6 750:8,18,21 751:5,10,20,23 752:3,9,13 753:2,4,14,20 756:7,25 759:18 770:23 772:7 775:22,22 776:3 776:20 778:21 781:14,14,21 783:9 786:20 790:12 791:4 websites 750:3 Wednesday 761:3 761:5,6 Well,I 752:7 went 758:25 773:13 785:22 weren't 814:2 whatsoever 806:25 Whitman 743:19 wholly 749:13,14 750:15 762:12 763:4 775:13 836:15,25 837:5 widely 804:25 Wilkinson 765:4 William 837:9 willing 797:11 828:12 832:2 wish 786:16 791:24 812:14 829:8 832:16 833:17 wished 800:2 wishes 827:11,21 829:5 832:4,12 witchcraft 799:4 withdrew
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
808:21 809:18 811:11,12 813:15 815:3,18 818:6,23 820:6 823:3 836:21,24 837:7 Tanzanian 753:13 Tanzania's 764:12 taxpayer 804:12 804:17 teach 798:14 teaching 799:8 Technology 764:12 Telephone 743:16 telephoned 765:2 tell 746:22 748:9 752:11 753:19 753:20 765:12 770:16 783:17 796:25 805:7 808:25 811:11 828:7 836:10 telling 745:14 759:23 768:17 768:19 779:23 786:12 790:5 801:22 820:13 826:9 834:20 ten 829:11 832:25 tendered 829:24 terribly 750:15 821:15 terrorism 760:6 test 774:18,19 814:20 text 755:25 840:19 Thank 760:2 810:19 825:16 833:11 837:16 837:17 841:7 theft 791:5 theme 779:25 thing 783:6 784:23 787:24 791:24 794:25 814:22 832:14 832:20 833:17 things 789:8 think 744:12,15 748:3,19 750:10 750:13,25 752:18 754:20 757:16 760:15 761:18 762:22 762:22 765:14 768:15,17 769:10 771:11
771:21 773:3 774:3,21 775:12 780:14 781:22 781:23 784:2,6 788:16 789:14 790:4 791:9 794:14 798:3,16 798:24 799:2,3 799:11,19,20 800:2,11 801:15 804:3,8 805:4 805:23 808:17 814:8 816:9,12 819:24 821:8 824:15 826:5,5 829:23 830:10 830:11 831:2 832:10,18,24 833:19 836:8,22 837:4,21,22 838:3,10,10,21 839:8,21 840:12 thinking 756:20 785:23 791:2 thinks 805:24 827:12,17 828:11 third 748:20 749:6 768:2 773:21 778:25 Thomas's 825:19 thought 752:8 756:12 758:19 765:13 770:11 777:18 783:11 784:20 788:3,7 800:23 805:20 812:5 834:25 threat 799:5 threatened 782:3 807:13 three 753:15 756:9,18 791:25 814:7 817:4 825:12 three/four 785:3 Thursday 754:7 778:23 Tim 765:4 time 749:7,19 751:4,25 752:3 752:22 762:16 762:18 775:9 776:25 778:10 778:12 779:18 780:9 781:23 784:6 796:13,17 810:17 817:2 823:3 830:14 835:11,12
836:10,11 840:23 Times 784:17 802:4 timings 796:12 title 776:4 today 773:12 833:2 834:22 840:13 told 744:16,22 751:5,25 758:20 775:12 780:12 793:23 794:9,11 794:24 806:13 806:13 829:3,7 837:9 tomorrow 826:13 tool 750:9 top 760:6,10,25 761:9,17,19 767:24 768:2 776:4 784:14 796:25 815:3 topics 797:10 topsy-turvey 767:14 toss 787:4 totally 781:12 touch 797:12 834:14 touched 750:3 trace 829:2 transcript 743:15 752:2 780:15 transcripts 743:24 816:15 translation 751:2 transmittently 816:7 Transparency 774:9 transportation 798:19 treatment 756:24 trouble 754:16 773:11 true 769:14 773:7 780:5,9,12,13 780:21 791:20 799:18,22,23 813:9 trust 805:11 809:13 814:10 truth 799:8 801:22 820:13 try 751:13 757:21 758:20 773:18 783:9 786:2,17 812:8 816:15 trying 747:9
753:20 756:11 782:12,25 784:24 786:14 798:25 803:25 804:2,3 808:24 808:25 TTP 748:6 Tuesday 743:4 770:18 turn 744:5,11 745:18 748:25 753:22 758:9 760:2,18 763:19 766:14 767:20 783:15 787:24 790:4 791:23 797:19 803:5 turned 752:8 765:22 803:21 turns 752:20 two 747:13 754:11 755:16 773:4 777:10 779:19 780:3 789:6,8 791:25 797:3,10 798:12 815:24 816:3 818:15 822:16,19 824:3 824:11 828:24 829:10 833:19 typesets 814:2 U UK 765:3 785:24 788:12,17 ultimate 778:6 unacceptable 771:25 773:17 uncertainty 789:17 underneath 760:10 770:19 771:6 772:12 779:2 784:8 understand 749:24 759:14 759:16 779:22 785:10 786:14 787:20 797:16 807:5 808:14 819:7,9,10 829:3 830:20 understanding 747:12 765:10 816:5 undertakings 823:15,18 825:14 uneducated 799:6 unequivocal 777:12 829:21
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
13 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 854] 23rd 775:5 24 745:16 24th 757:3 759:8 803:6 25 789:10 26th 746:5 773:21 808:3 822:5 263 792:5 794:15 795:2,3 797:3 264 796:14 266 796:12 27th 746:10 284 790:5 288C 790:23 29 749:13 750:18 2900 743:16 3 3 744:14 745:15 751:17,18 792:3 794:16 795:3 839:3,3 3rd 751:13 755:23 756:3 759:9 760:15 790:22 3(a) 744:13 30 810:9 31st 775:21 776:3 790:12 32 792:9,14,20 4 4 745:16 746:14 4th 760:18 761:4 761:8 40 810:9 813:24 47 754:20,24 832:9 5 5 745:18 746:22 749:3 5th 758:18 769:25 5.2 789:23 6 6 743:23 750:11 6,000 820:2,3 6-9 743:16 7 7th 787:9 70-year-old 816:13 7067 743:16 8 8th 744:10 8-8(b) 744:13 81 753:25 754:2,3 754:6 778:22,23
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
837:18 witness 744:5 750:23 766:5,22 775:12 782:13 783:8 785:19 789:19 790:3 792:4,5,9 793:14 794:6 797:17 798:3 800:6 801:19 810:20 811:22 812:5,22 813:6 819:2,22,22 821:14,16,25 831:7 833:18 836:6 837:18,22 woman 796:15 wondering 745:10 word 764:4 774:5 828:9 worded 777:14 wording 835:8 words 749:4,7 764:13 766:18 766:20 767:4,16 769:23 770:4 772:19 773:5 774:8 775:4 776:6,10 779:4 779:10,16 784:18 790:20 792:23 796:19 796:23 797:5,9 800:3 802:5 823:20 work 750:2 worked 792:17,21 794:22 workers 776:2 works 806:6 world 768:12 784:4,7,18 787:6,16,19 788:5,17,19 811:11 815:7 817:25 worldwide 779:5 779:6 worried 831:10 worth 791:9 812:18 wound 828:13 wrapped 760:11 write 780:8,9 787:11 792:22 809:21 810:12 815:16 818:5 writes 835:9 writing 746:8 763:17 787:16
787:17 798:21 808:4 811:16 838:4 writings 797:8 written 744:14 746:7 747:14 756:8 762:22 767:13,25 778:3 778:25 780:22 783:20,24 784:3 787:8 791:6 792:24 793:19 807:10 808:2,14 813:23 815:4,13 815:14 840:24 wrong 799:21 815:13 828:23 wrote 766:7 778:11,12 783:15 793:4,8 795:9 809:20 812:22 813:6,24 814:18,20 816:21,25 Y year 790:3 792:24 793:20 years 747:9 750:3 753:15 756:9,19 808:19 816:25 817:4,10 828:24 832:9 yesterday 744:16 744:22 751:24 752:10,16 780:14 796:18 801:22 827:6 yu 784:13 Z Zel 796:15,16,17 Zoellick 784:3 787:10,11,15,25 813:20 zones 796:13 0 020 743:16 1 1 744:8 1HP 743:16 1st 743:15 790:11 790:19 1.1 754:17 757:6 1.2 753:22 757:3,5 757:7,9 766:14 783:18 787:17 797:19 805:24 807:25 814:23
839:2,6,8,13 10 748:14,17 810:8,9 822:3 10th 816:19 10(a) 744:4 10.30 841:8 10.52 796:17 104 770:17 105 770:17 107 764:7 769:24 108(A) 834:12 11 748:14,17 774:20 778:23 11th 748:16 754:8 759:9 760:4 772:13,19 812:13 815:23 113 763:19 118 760:18 761:10 119 761:2 12 789:10 792:13 792:14 820:5 12th 814:25 123 760:2 124 760:7,10 125 757:2,4,5,10 126 758:9 759:8 13 790:4 13th 743:4 745:11 766:24 13.05.2007 744:19 14th 790:3 806:5 834:13 836:4 15th 763:20 770:19 774:21 808:5 811:25 150,000 820:5 158 797:19,24 16 789:20,21,22 16th 766:8,16 783:14,22 796:17 841:8 160 802:18 162 801:24 164 803:5,8 168 783:15,23 787:15 169 784:8 17th 781:23 170 784:14 172 787:10,16 174 787:8,24 788:3 176 766:14 177 766:17 767:7 767:8 179 767:24 768:2 180A 805:25 181 807:23,24,25 811:23 186(G)
748:19,25 186(Q) 744:6 186(R) 744:11 19 805:17 19th 744:12 759:8 2 2 744:4 789:20,24 792:11 2LL 743:3 2nd 761:3,5,6 20 784:25 810:9 20th 745:17 746:11 750:19 200 781:14 2005 744:10,12 760:21 761:22 763:24 764:19 766:20 770:3 773:5 775:6 804:21,22 815:19 818:8 822:24 2006 745:16 759:8 759:8,9 760:24 762:4 772:19 2007 745:12,17 746:11 747:6 748:16 751:13 755:23 756:3 759:9,9 760:15 772:13,19 774:20 815:23 817:2,3 825:25 826:20 2009 749:9 752:23 757:3 758:22 760:4,19 762:10 763:20 770:19 773:21 781:25 2010 746:5,10 747:2,16,22 748:4 749:22 750:19 752:23 753:14,14 754:8 766:8,16 775:21 778:23 781:24 782:2,4 790:11 790:12,20 791:3 803:6,7 804:24 806:5 808:3 814:25 816:19 817:4 822:5,10 836:4 2012 743:4 841:8 21 751:17,21 21st 803:7 211 811:20 814:22 216.69.164.44 748:7 749:10,22 22nd 759:8
82 754:11 778:21 778:24 85% 799:7 87 775:21 776:3 9 9 751:2 9th 816:19 90 749:16,17 95 773:19,22 775:2
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
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Mengi V Hermitage 2102 Trial Transcript

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MENGI v HERMITAGE

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 745]

SARAH HERMITAGE, RECALLED

[1] (Pages 743 to 746)

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FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 747]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 749]

3 Q. At (c), which is part of paragraph 5, he says this: "Another 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22

12 A. Well, no, it is not right, Mr. Rampton. If you go to

Mr. Rampton. Even on my extremely limited knowledge of

5 MR. RAMPTON: It matters because the content of Ms. Hermitage's

15 A. Mr. Rampton, that is wholly inaccurate and terribly

25 Q. I can only find one Google download in here and I think it is

[2] (Pages 747 to 750)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 751]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 753]

website and I am not trying to be difficult; I cannot tell

11th March 2010, is it not?

9 A. Yes. 10 Q. This is one of the postings complained of because on the next 11 12 13

11 Q. No doubt if I am mistaken about that somebody will tell me,

trouble with this one as well. Claim.

read, but never mind.

part of that page. Then what you have done ----

[3] (Pages 751 to 754)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 755]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 757]

HERMITAGE-RAMPTON reference, Ms. Hermitage, we believe, is on page 125 of this

Reginald Mengi. I do not see any reference to Reginald Mengi

yours? This looks a lot cleaner than mine, certainly. Yes, I

[4] (Pages 755 to 758)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 759]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 761]

HERMITAGE-RAMPTON page 119?

23 A. Yes, I see. 24 Q. Do you have that? 25 A. Yes, I have.

10 A. Mr. Rampton, when my blog started, at the end of 2009, it

19 Q. It may be of some consequence to Mr. Mengi, Mr. Hermitage. Do

[5] (Pages 759 to 762)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 763]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 765]

[6] (Pages 763 to 766)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 767]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 769]

[7] (Pages 767 to 770)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 771]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 6 [Page 773]

get in through the URL address.

[8] (Pages 771 to 774)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

13 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 775]