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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ----------------------------X UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. DANIEL CHOI, Defendant, -----------------------------X Washington, D.C. Tuesday, August 30, 2011 2:15 P.M. Criminal Case No. 10-739M-11

P.M. SESSION - DAY 2 TRANSCRIPT OF BENCH TRIAL BEFORE THE HONORABLE JOHN M. FACCIOLA UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE APPEARANCES: For the Government: Angela S. George, AUSA U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE 555 Fourth Street, NW, Room 4444 Washington, DC 20530 (202) 252-7943 For the Defendant: Robert J. Feldman, Esquire 14 Wall Street - 20th Floor New York, NY 10005 (917) 657-5177 Norman Elliott Kent, Esquire KENT & CORMICAN, PA 110 SE 6th Street, Suite 1970 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 (954) 763-1900

Court Reporter:

Lisa Walker Griffith, RPR U.S. District Courthouse Room 6507 Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 354-3247

Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript produced by computer.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. GEORGE: Q

AFTERNOON SESSION THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Recalling criminal case year

2010-739 M, United States of America versus Daniel Choi. Angela George for the government. Robert Feldman

and Norman E. Kent for the defendant. This is a bench trial, day two. THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: Please proceed. Thank you, Your Honor.

(James F. Pietrangelo, witness for the defendant, previously sworn.) CROSS EXAMINATION (resumed)

Mr. Pietrangelo, moving to November 15, 2010, do you

recall that day and do you recall being at the White House sidewalk on November 15, 2010? A Yes and no. Yes, Ma'am. I recall being at, in the White

House area on Pennsylvania Avenue on the sidewalk for a while and then on Lafayette sidewalk, Lafayette Park sidewalk. Yes, Ma'am. Q Yes. And you told the Court on direct examination that

prior to going to the White House on November 15, 2010, there was a meeting, correct? A Q Yes, Ma'am. Okay. And could you please tell us who was in that

meeting?

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A Q A

I'm sorry, what? Who was at the meaning? Dan Choi, I was there, the 13, the 12 other individuals

arrested were there. Q And you named some individuals in response to or in

conjunction with the Court asking you some questions about the names. I think the Court asked you about Ian

Finkenbinder, do you recall that? A Yes. He was one of the 12 other people besides Dan

arrested, yes. Q Right. And before the Court asked you about

Mr. Finkenbinder, you were naming some other individuals, correct? A Q Yes. And then you continued to name a few more after the Court

mentioned Mr. Finkenbinder; is that correct? A No, I think the Court stated Mr. Finkenbinder was the I just repeated his name as I understood the

last one.

pronunciation. THE COURT: I said it and you corrected me because

you already named him? THE WITNESS: BY MS. GEORGE: Q And those individuals are the 13 individuals that you Yes. Yes, Your Honor.

were speaking of that was at the meeting before you arrived

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to the White House area on November 15, 2010, correct? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And at that meeting, let me just ask you this: On April

20th, 2010, your handcuffs were taken from you at that point in time; is that correct, by the police? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And at the meeting on November 15th, 2010, did you

receive more handcuffs at that meeting? A I didn't receive any handcuffs. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: meeting? MR. FELDMAN: THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. No, I did not, Your Honor. I was not We went over this already.

I don't recall. Not in reference to November 15th. Did you get more handcuffs at this

arrested on November 15th. THE COURT: Did you see anyone distributing

handcuffs at the time meeting? THE WITNESS: Honor. BY MS. GEORGE: Q A Q And who had handcuffs? Each one of the 13 individuals who were arrested. And that would include Dan Choi? I saw people with handcuffs, yes, Your

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A Q

Yes. And did Dan Choi also have a handcuff key with his

handcuffs? MR. FELDMAN: THE WITNESS: If he knows. I don't recall seeing a key, but I do

know that each box with the handcuff, set of handcuffs, had a key with it. BY MS. GEORGE: Q And there were boxes there at that meeting with handcuffs

inside of them? A Q Yes, there were. And was there one person speaking to the group about what

was going to happen when everyone actually arrived to the White House area and to the sidewalk? A I think there was more than one person who talked about

that issue. Q A Q A Did Dan Choi speak about that issue? I believe he did, yes. Okay. And tell the Court what he said.

He just described the process of handcuffing to the

fence. Q And did Dan Choi also do further instruction about how to

use the handcuffs in this meeting? A Q About how to use the handcuff and the key? Yes.

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Well, I think that was part of the demonstration of In other words, they were practicing cuffing

cuffing.

themselves at the house, so they had to uncuff themselves at some point because they couldn't walk to the White House cuffed. Q So what you're telling the Court is that you observed

those individuals, the 13 individuals, putting on handcuffs and taking off handcuffs at that meeting? A Yes. I can't recall seeing every single one doing it, So, I don't recall

but we were all in a group together.

looking at each of the 13 as they cuffed and then uncuffed. I know each of the 13 had handcuffs at some point. Q A How long was the meeting? I don't recall exactly. It was, it was not a short

meeting, it was not five or 10 minutes, it was not 15 minutes. Q A Q At least half an hour.

Was it longer than an hour? I don't recall. I don't recall.

And then at some point the meeting ended; is that

correct? A Yes. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection. Meetings always end.

You've never been in some of the You are obviously not from

meetings I've been in. Washington.

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BY MS. GEORGE: Q And then earlier during your direct, you stated that the

group broke off into two separate groups when you left the meeting; isn't that correct? A It was, we didn't go as one group. We did break up. I

don't, I think it was in either two groups or three groups, I don't recall the exact number of groups. with several individuals. Q A Q And how many people were in your group? I believe it was four or five of us. Okay. And before you -- and did you meet in an house or I was in one group

in an apartment? A Q We left from a private residence. And when people arrived at that private residence, were The people that were dressed in their

they already dressed?

military uniforms, were they already dressed or did they get dressed there? A Q No, they got dressed there. And I believe you indicated earlier that in the group

that you were in that left after the meeting, you were the only one that had a military uniform on; is that correct? A Q Yes, as far as I recall. Okay. And you said there may have been one or two other

separate groups that left that residence as well; is that correct?

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A Q

Yes. And did one of those groups include the 13 individuals

that ended up on the White House fence ledge? A Q A Did you say one of those groups? Yes. Well, I'm not clear. The other 13 people were -- the 13

people who got arrested were in the other groups as well as with my group. Q Is that what you're asking?

So, some of the 13 people that were arrested may have

been in each of the remaining two groups that left the residence? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, form.

Overruled.

Do you understand? THE WITNESS: Yes. Except that, again, I don't But those other

recall exactly how many groups sat out.

groups contained arrestees, the 13 arrestees, other than those with me. Whether those groups contained other

individuals, I don't recall. BY MS. GEORGE: Q And then how much time passed from the time you left the

residence to when you arrived to the White House area? A Q A I'd say at least a half hour. So approximately what time did you arrive? What time did we arrive at the White House?

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Q A

What time did your group arrive at the White House area? I wasn't looking at my watch, but I think it was I don't recall. That's I don't

somewhere between 1:30 and 2:00. just a guess.

Again, I wasn't looking at my watch. I didn't have watch.

even have a watch. with me. Q

I had my cell phone

And please describe what you observed when you got to the

White House area? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: day. Form, Judge. Just unclear and vague.

Well, you've shown us your path on that

This is after you see a woman talking and her handcuff? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor.

Take us from that point to where you

went and what you did. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: May I demonstrate?

Sure. I know there were people, there were

THE WITNESS:

park police personnel and other, and civilians in the area of Pennsylvania Avenue on the sidewalk, in the park, on the Lafayette Park sidewalk. I and my group made a beeline for And we went amongst

the point, as I have hashed it out here. those people who were there already. BY MS. GEORGE: Q

And were the 13 individuals that you just previously

described, were they already on the ledge at the White House

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fence when you arrived? A Q No. Did you see them come into the area of Pennsylvania

Avenue? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And how did they come into the area of Pennsylvania

Avenue? A Q I saw one group come out of Lafayette Park. When you say one group, is that the group with the 13

individuals? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, form, Judge.

No, I think that's fair.

Did you see all 13 march from the far part of Lafayette Park to the nearer part? THE WITNESS: No, Your Honor, not that I recall.

That group that came out of Lafayette Park, Your Honor, they include some of the arrestees, the people that were later arrested. But I don't recall if they were all in that group.

BY MS. GEORGE: Q A Q Where was Dan Choi at this time? I believe he came out of Lafayette Park, Ma'am. And did you see -- the group that you are describing that

came, you put your finger and you went from north to south, going through Lafayette Park, correct? A Like that (indicating). Are you saying what direction

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did they came from, Ma'am? Q A Yes, which direction? Let me just ask you that.

I recall them coming, I don't know if they used the grass

or one of these paths, but I recall them coming -- is this south? THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q A That's south. I recall them coming, they were moving in a southerly That's south.

direction. Q Okay. So, did they come from the H Street area up here

(indicating)? A Q I don't know, Ma'am. Okay. I didn't see them at that point.

You saw them somewhere in Lafayette Park and then

they walked in a southerly fashion towards Pennsylvania Avenue; is that correct? A Q As far as I know, yes, Ma'am. And the people that you saw in that group, do you recall

how they were walking? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, form.

Well, when you say how they were

walking, do you mean were they in military cadence? MS. GEORGE: No. I just want him to describe what

he saw, how they were walking through the park. THE WITNESS: I don't recall their sort of exact

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style of movement. that point as well. BY MS. GEORGE: Q

I was concentrating on getting myself to

And what was your role?

Why were you so concentrated on

getting to that point? A Q A Q Well, because that was the beginning of the speech. Well, which speech? Who was going to give a speech?

Well, the speech of the 13 people. And who was leading that speech? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, asked and answered.

At this point when you say the speech,

do you mean these people were now assembling to go across the street to get on the ledge, right? speech? THE WITNESS: In that process, yes, Your Honor. The That's what you call the

speech of -- yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Was there a particular person

denominated at that time to lead? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: I don't recall, Your Honor.

It was not you? No, it was not me. You can sit down, I believe.

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q A

Okay.

And isn't it correct that you had a bullhorn? Yes, Ma'am.

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And you had that bullhorn because you were going to be

directing some chant; isn't that right? A I was going to be engaging in speech myself using the

bullhorn, yes, Ma'am. Q Right. And you were going to say something into the

bullhorn; isn't that correct? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And then the group that was on the ledge was going to

respond to what you said out of the bullhorn; isn't that correct? A No, Ma'am, not necessarily. My goal was to provide a

narrative, to speak, to describe to the crowd what was happening, to engage in my own chants, to be able to respond to their chants if possible, and to speak directly to President Obama. Q Okay. So you did participate in chants with the 13

individuals that were on the White House fence? A If by participation, you mean I made a chant that was in

connection with their chant, yes, Ma'am. Q And also you called out their names through your bullhorn

as the demonstration was going on; isn't that correct? A Q Yes, Ma'am, that's correct. I'd like to show you what's been marked and admitted as Do you recognize the individual in

Government's Exhibit 35. that?

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A Q

Yes, Ma'am, that is me. I'd also like to show you Government's Exhibit 31 and 32.

Are you in Government's Exhibit 31? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And could you please point for the Court where you are

standing? A Well, I'm the individual in the foreground in uniform to

the center, right center, center right of the picture. Q And you are the only person in uniform that is not

standing on the White House ledge; is that correct, or on the fence ledge? A Q A Q Yes, Ma'am, in that photo. Yes, in Government's Exhibit 31? Yes, Ma'am. Showing you Government's Exhibit 32, are you also shown

in Government's Exhibit 32? A Q I see it. And are you in the approximate same spot that you were in

in Government's Exhibit 31? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And in Government's Exhibit 31 and 32, there is no Is the bullhorn in front of them?

bullhorn. A Q A

No, I'm not carrying the bullhorn at that time. Okay. When did you get the bullhorn?

At some point, at some point of my moving across

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Pennsylvania Avenue, I received it. Q And earlier you testified that the police came in and

disbursed individuals or told individuals to leave and go across Pennsylvania Avenue into Lafayette Park? A Q Yes, Ma'am, at some point they did that. And were you part of that group that was trying to get

into Lafayette Park? A Q Was I part of what group that was what? Were you part of the individuals that were told to go

into Lafayette Park? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, form.

Overruled. Yes, Ma'am.

THE WITNESS: BY MS. GEORGE: Q

And is it after you went into Lafayette Park that you got

the bullhorn? A Q I don't recall. But you didn't have the bullhorn when you were standing

in the spot that you are standing in in 31 and 32? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q Do you recall some of the chants that you made on Objection, asked and answered, Judge. Please move on. You have it.

Go ahead.

November 15th, 2010? A Yes, Ma'am.

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Q A

Could you please tell the Court what you were saying? Let me think of it for a second. The one central chant

is, I am somebody, I deserve full equality, right here, right now. Q And, Mr. Pietrangelo, after you went into Lafayette Park,

after the police disbursed those individuals in that direction, did you ever return to the White House sidewalk? A If I could just clarify, I was on the Lafayette Park

sidewalk. Q A Q A Q A Q Yes. So that's where I went to. When they disbursed you? Yes, Ma'am. And towards that area? Yes, Ma'am. And my question is, did you ever return to the White

House sidewalk? MR. FELDMAN: Unclear. Objection. At what point, Judge?

That day, next week? THE COURT: She's going to have him state.

Go ahead, please. BY MS. GEORGE: Q After you were disbursed into Lafayette Park, did you

ever go back to the White House sidewalk where you were without the bullhorn?

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MR. FELDMAN: MS. GEORGE: THE WITNESS: time line here:

On that day, Judge, right? That's what we're discussing. I think you're conflating sort of the

"I obtained the bullhorn before that cordon In fact, I remember

line had reached the sidewalk.

specifically being on Pennsylvania Avenue and an officer coming up telling me, you need to move back. And I had the

bullhorn at that point and that's when, after his direct order to me, in my right up, you know, several feet from my face, that's when I moved back to Lafayette Park sidewalk where I remained with the crowd. And I don't believe I ever

left, I ever crossed that cordon line until after they had removed the individuals in the paddy wagons." MS. GEORGE: BY MS. GEORGE: Q So you stayed in Lafayette Park with your bullhorn during That's exactly what my point is.

the chants? A Just again, just to be precise, when you say Lafayette

Park, we're talking the sidewalk, right? Q Yes. You said you were told to move towards Lafayette

Park, and you stood on the sidewalk that is in Lafayette Park; isn't that correct? A Q Yes, Ma'am. Yes. And that's where you stayed with your bullhorn

during the chants; isn't that correct?

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Yes, Ma'am. MS. GEORGE: No further questions at this time, Your

Honor. THE COURT: Redirect? MR. FELDMAN: MS. GEORGE: I'm sorry. available. Thank you, Your Honor. Oh, Your Honor, one additional thing, Thank you, sir.

We didn't have the video from March 19th We have it ready now. I'd like to play it at

this point in time. MR. FELDMAN: Judge, I object to that. After I

finish my redirect, please. THE COURT: we'll see. MS. GEORGE: it regardless of -THE COURT: Yes, you will. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A Q Good afternoon, Captain. Good afternoon, Mr. Feldman. What you were asked on cross, why you simply did not go Your Honor, will I be allowed to play All right. Finish your redirect, then

to the White House and walk around and carry signs and chants, can you please explain to the Court in your own language why you chose a different method of deployment?

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A Q A

It wouldn't have been as effective if we had done that. Please explain. It wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect as if --

and also, we would have been subject to the law pertaining to the sidewalk. Q Thank you. Now, on the March 18th tape, correct me if I'm wrong, and I believe -- well, do you recall, before I lead you, do you recall on the March 18th tape there was a different chant? Think back of it. I'll give you a little

clue if you can't remember. chant? Hey, hey, ho, ho -MS. GEORGE: witness. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: you're saying. ho? THE WITNESS: the rest of it. THE COURT:

Do you remember the March 18th

Objection, Your Honor, leading the

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I thought I heard something like what

Does that refresh your recollection, the hey,

Vaguely, Your Honor.

I don't recall

Let me help you.

I thought I heard it.

Hey, ho, don't ask don't tell has got to go. THE WITNESS: I do recall that. I don't recall at

which protest that was said, Your Honor. THE COURT: But the hey ho thing is --

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THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q

Yes, Your Honor.

-- that's the chant.

And also, was it also, hey, hey, ho, ho, homophobia has

got to go? A Q I don't recall that one. Now, on the March 18th deployment, the person, and if you

don't remember from your independent recollection, the individual, as you are facing the White House all the way on the left, appeared to be wearing, the person appeared to be wearing a naval uniform. you recall that person? A Q A Q A Q This is the -March 18th? April 20th, 2010. I'm sorry, April? Yes, sir. Yeah. You're referring to Autumn Sandeen? I don't know the difference. Do

And do you know Autumn Sandeen, very, very

briefly, do you remember that person's rank? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, relevancy. Overruled.

Was he the older gentleman who was to your -MR. FELDMAN: the right. THE COURT: On the right. That's on the right, Judge, that's on

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BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A As you are facing the White House on the left? She is the retired service member in a skirt, a black

skirt and a top, Your Honor. Q Are you aware -THE COURT: uniform, right? THE WITNESS: I believe so, Your Honor. Not their In the Navy that would be their winter

whites, not their summer whites. THE COURT: Not their whites? Yes, Your Honor.

THE WITNESS: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q

Do you, are you aware of her sexuality, to use the

government's word? MS. GEORGE: MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q And maybe I'm using the wrong word. Gender, that's Objection, Your Honor. Oh, it's relevant.

Overruled.

better. A Q A Q Autumn Sandeen is a transgender woman. Thank you. Preop or postop, if you know?

I don't know. Thank you. MR. FELDMAN: One moment, Judge?

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THE COURT:

Sure.

(There was a pause in the proceedings.) BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Okay. Since the Judge, the great Judge guides us who

knows more than I do, the older gentleman on the right, do you recall that person? A Q Yes. Okay. That was Larry Witt, a former, a sailor. Do you know his approximate age? The Judge said

he appeared older. A He's in, at least in his fifties, if not sixties. THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q That old, huh? Do you know if he suffered from any serious medical condition? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, relevancy, Your Honor. Overruled. Yes. Is that old?

THE WITNESS: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A Q

And please tell the Court. He is HIV positive. And do you, are you aware whether or not he was given his

HIV medicine when he was incarcerated by the government? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, relevancy, Your Honor. Do you know anything about that?

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THE WITNESS: THE COURT:

Yes, Your Honor.

What do you know? He was denied medical attention. In

THE WITNESS:

fact, when he and I were transferred to the D.C. cellblock, he had an attack which seemed to me to be a heart attack. He

was sweating profusely and pale and trembling, and he asked to be taken to the hospital and they refused. I was next to

him and I begged the booking officer to take him to the hospital. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: I have no further questions. You may stand down, sir.

Thank you.

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. GEORGE:

Thank you, Your Honor.

Thank you, you're excused. Your Honor, may I play the video now,

THE COURT:

Please. Judge, with your permission, I am

MR. FELDMAN:

going to ask that Captain Pietrangelo be allowed to remain in the back of the courtroom? THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: Sure. I may have a few questions for him in

reference to this video. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me.

I'm sorry, I let you go.

(Witness remains on the stand.)

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MS. GEORGE: Exhibit 13. THE COURT:

Your Honor, for the record, this is

Thank you.

(Video played.) THE COURT: I'll take judicial notice of the fact

that is the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. MS. GEORGE: BY MS. GEORGE: Q And, Mr. Pietrangelo, you heard Mr. -- that was Mr. -MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Judge, it's Captain Pietrangelo. Ms. George, please Thank you, Your Honor.

Captain, please.

proceed to use his name, Captain Pietrangelo. Is that what you would prefer, sir? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q A Q Did you see Mr. Choi in that video? Yes, Ma'am. And that was yourself standing next to him; is that Yes, Your Honor. Thank you very much.

All right.

correct? A Q A Q Probably so, yes, Ma'am. You said what? Probably so, yes, Ma'am. So you're not sure if that was -MR. FELDMAN: Oh, Judge, a little bit of humor is

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not going to kill the captain. THE WITNESS: Yes, Ma'am. BY MS. GEORGE: Q

Thank God, finally.

Yes, Your Honor.

And you already testified that, let me just say this:

The date on that was March 19th; isn't that correct? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And you already testified that on April 20th you went to

the White House fence with Mr. Choi, correct? A Q A Q April 20th? Yes. This was the April -- yes, Ma'am. And then on November 15th, 2010, you were there again

when Mr. Choi was there; is that correct? A Q The last part of your sentence? You were there again at the White House fence on November

15th, 2010? MR. FELDMAN: first redirect? THE COURT: you were there. right, sir? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor, that's correct. Anything else? Yeah, I think it is self evidence that Judge, didn't she ask that on her

You are not denying that you were there,

Okay.

I'm fine, Your Honor.

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THE COURT:

I hope so.

Let's go.

Thank you, Captain. (Witness excused.) THE COURT: Call your next witness. Yes, the defendant calls himself,

MR. FELDMAN: Lieutenant Dan Choi.

(The Defendant, Daniel Choi, sworn.) DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A Q A Q A Good afternoon, Lieutenant. Good afternoon, sir. Please give your date of birth. February 22nd, 1981. And please give your undergraduate alma mater. I graduated from the United States Military Academy at

West Point. Q A And did you receive a degree therefrom? Yes, a Bachelor of Science, enviromental engineering,

Arabic language and Middle Eastern studies. Q A Are you fluent in any other languages other than English? My first language was Korean, which is the language we I studied Spanish in high school. And I

speak at home.

majored in Arabic and I retained fluency. Q Did you retain fluency in the Arabic language when you

were in the army?

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A Q

Yes, sir. Did you retain fluency in the Arabic language when you

were deployed to the Middle East? A Yes, to both Kuwait and Iraq. MR. FELDMAN: Now, at this point, I'd like to have

what was previously given to the government marked as Defense Exhibit A. THE COURT: This will be marked as Government's A

and shown to the witness. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Defense A, Your Honor.

I'm sorry, excuse me.

(Defendant's Exhibit A was marked and admitted into evidence.) MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Can Defense A be shown to the witness?

Sure. Thank you, Judge.

MR. FELDMAN: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q

I show you what's been previously marked as Defendant's I ask that you

Exhibit A for identification purposes only. look at it.

After looking at it, I ask that you tell the

Court whether or not that is a true and accurate copy of your transcript from the United States Marine West Point Academy? A Yes, it is the transcript of academic record. MR. FELDMAN: I ask that it be admitted into

evidence as Defense exhibit A?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Academy.

THE COURT:

Certainly. Thank you.

MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT:

You said the United States Marine

It's the United States Military Academy. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Your Honor.

May I see it? Certainly. Please proceed.

MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT:

Thank you, counsel. Thank you.

MR. FELDMAN: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Okay.

I'd like to discuss very briefly, did there ever When did

come a point, when did you come out of the closet? you admit to the world that you were a homosexual? A

Well, I believe gay people come out of the closet every I did it most dramatically on

time they have a conversation.

the Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC in a live interview in March of 2009. Q I came out to my parents two months before.

Which was worse, which was more dramatic, to use your

words, coming out to your Korean parents or coming out on national TV, if I may ask, Lieutenant? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, relevancy. Overruled. My father is a Southern Baptist

THE WITNESS:

minister and a missionary into China and has done humanitarian work in North Korea. He raised me in the Gospel

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truth of Jesus Christ.

And when I told him, he quite

honestly didn't have the vocabulary in the Korean language to understand what gay meant, other than wearing high heels and getting AIDS. As I explained to him that I'm HIV negative and I'm not transgender, he still is understanding and trying to learn what it means to be gay in America. there is no such thing as a gay Korean. My mother was worse. Her father was a pastor of a For, in his mind,

mega church in South Korea and a war orphan who did not want to lose any more sons to any more wars. When I told her that

I would not marry a Korean girl, she only worried that she would not have Korean grandchildren. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A Are you sure she's not Jewish? I believe that the disappointment and the feeling of And she's a --

emptiness in my mother's heart because I would not have Korean grandchildren certainly sprouted from a cultural misunderstanding of what it meant to be gay in contemporary America. But she postulated that it would be better for me

to have a fake wedding and -Q What do you mean by a fake wedding? To a woman or

something? A She taught me my entire life that marriage should be But when I explained that my

based in love and commitment.

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identity does not match her dream, she came up with any solution that she could so that culturally she would be accepted by her own friends. She is a nurse in the maternity And she

ward, this postpartum section, and she loves babies.

offered that if I married a Korean girl and I had a large Korean wedding, then indeed, she would be proud of me and she would be honored by that decision. Q May I ask, did that postulation from your mom conflict

with any of your ethos, ethics or codes? A My father taught me in Bible study that Thou Shalt Not You Should Honor Your

Bear False Witness to Thy Neighbor.

Father and Your Mother in the Lord for This is Right. Additionally, at West Point, I learned the honor code that a cadet should not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do. And the toleration clause of that honor code

is not only most difficult in the heart of every cadet, but it forces anyone living a lie to recognize that the toleration of one's own lie, of one's own mischaracterization of his own identity, is a violation of honor in every single facet of the meaning itself. Q Let's fast forward or concentrate on your graduation from Did there come a time -- sorry, I

the West Point Academy. did it again.

What was your next level of education, if any? A I continued studies at Harvard University at the

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extension school.

Because I was active duty and serving in

the capacity of an infantry officer, there wasn't much time for continued education of the traditional sort, so I took classes at night. And my major, which I intended would be

religious fundamentalisms as well as linguistics. Q A Q A Arab linguistics? Particularly Middle Eastern linguistics, yes, sir. Okay. Did there come a time that you went to Iraq? It was one extended deployment of

Yes, in 2006 and 2007.

15 months. Q A Q A Q What was your billet over there? My billet, sir? Yeah. Am I using the right word?

Or my unit? I'm sorry, what do I know? Please explain, tell the

Judge what you did over there. A I served in the 10th Mountain Division as an infantry I was in charge at a battalion level of a civil

officer.

affairs platoon of about 30 to 40 members, depending on the operation. I was able to use my degree in environmental Although I

engineering as well as Arabic on a daily basis.

was not getting paid to translate Arabic, I was more fluent than the translators that we had. Additionally, I was

willing and able to go outside the wire, outside of the base, to patrol, at the minimum, once a week, at the maximum two

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times a day in South Baghdad, which encompassed some of the most dangerous counties, qadas is what they called it, Q-A-D-A-S, in all of Baghdad Province. (speaking in foreign language). Q A Can you spell that or give an English word? The translation is the triangle of death. And in this We called it

region, I had undergone many combat operations and we were mortared. And the first patrol that we had, which was called

the Relief in Place or Transfer of Authority, left seat ride or right seat ride in common parlance. Q A Not so common to me. Please explain.

When a unit takes over an area, they call it transfer of And when that preceding unit is still there, it The unit that we replaced was with the And the 10th Mountain Division's

authority.

is a relief in place.

101st Airborne Division.

second brigade, which I was a member of, replaced them in that entire region, which included Abu Ghraib prison, Mahmudia, which is the, essentially the north border of the Shi'a population and the south border of the Sunni population. There was a lot of ethnic strife as well as

sectarian violence in the area, which caused the greater number of casualties than most of the areas in Baghdad. During this time, we were, in 2006, we were mortared almost on a daily basis. In fact, our first night that we

got to Iraq, there was a mortar that exploded in Camp

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Liberty, which was a neighboring and joined, geographically-joined base. And as we went to patrol that night, a convoy which was with the 101st Division was ambushed by an improvised explosive device, which caused the turret of the machine gun that was on top of the humvee to catch fire and what we call cook off rounds or explode the 50 caliber rounds, 50 caliber bullets. Q A Is that loud? It's extremely loud as well as extremely dangerous for

anybody who wanted or needed to rescue the soldiers that were inside that particular vehicle, as it was on fire. The 101st

unit we were replacing advised us that we should not rescue any soldiers inside, as it would endanger the soldiers in the rescue operation. So, having to sit in that vehicle, which

we were in, and simply watch what we presumed to be soldiers burning alive, was my welcome to the Triangle of Death. Q As a result of these and other combat incidents,

Lieutenant, did you suffer any disability, particularly regarding your hearing? A I have a disability reading of 10 percent for tinnitus, It is intermittent. I know I'm a little out of Please explain in your own

which is a ringing of the ear. Q

Now, I want to explore that.

order here, while we're on this.

words, I know you are not a doctor, what the effects are of

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this tinnitus to you, in terms of differentiating -- I don't want to lead you. In terms of -Objection, please don't. That's all right. Go ahead. Please go

MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: ahead. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q

Please describe the condition of your hearing the best

that you can. A When there is ringing in my ears, it's very annoying. My hearing, as far as

And at times I can have headaches.

military operations go, I would still qualify to serve in the military, but the military gave me a medical record which said my hearing was significantly decreased after the Iraq war. Q Let me interrupt you. Okay. Do you have any other, did

you suffer from any other disabilities that were caused and/or created by your service to our country, other than the 10 percent disability of tinnitus? A Altogether I have 50 percent disability rating, which

includes fractures to my leg I incurred from parachutist jumps, chronic lung conditions, as well as posttraumatic stress disorder. Q All right. Going back a little bit, being an Arab

linguist, serving 15 months working in Iraq, going outside of the wire, as you call it, did you learn anything about Iraqi

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culture? MS. GEORGE: MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor, relevance. Oh, I'll make the connection.

Go ahead. Yes. One lesson in particular was a

THE WITNESS:

driving force for my renewed struggle in activism, my continuous struggle in activism for gay equality. The Shi'a

people of Iraq under Shi'a Islamic jurisprudence, there's a term called Taqiyya, T-A-Q-I-Y-Y-A. translated concealment or hiding. The Shi'a people for centuries, especially in Baghdad, were ordered and advised by their ayatollahs and their community leaders that if their life was ever in danger because of their identity, then they would not have to tell the truth. Otherwise, they would be compelled to tell the Taqiyya is mostly

truth, and some scholars would apply this concept of Taqiyya to include if you are in danger of losing your job. As I came back from war in 2007, November, and celebrated Veteran's Day, I wondered, particularly because of the don't ask, don't tell policy, why we tried to help Shi'a people in Iraq gain the confidence and the full personhood to rescind and to repudiate any concept or form of hiding and concealment, while in America gay people willing to die for their country were not able or allowed to live freely in their country in their true essence.

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BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Okay. I am going to use that as a segue to your new, not

new, it's a couple of years old already, advocation of activism. Did there come a time when you became a gay activist? were on. A I did not use the word activist to describe myself. In And let's start from the Rachel Maddox Show you

fact, in the military, we did not like activists very much. We called them by other names. Q A You can spare us of that, please. Conversations. So, it was very difficult, even on my

Facebook page, I simply said, a soldier fighting against don't ask, don't tell. An advocate, but never wanted to use

the word activist because of the stigma that it carried for anybody who served in the military and was protested or felt that they themselves were being protested by troublemakers. But when I came out, I supposed that was the day that I -Q A You changed your Facebook? It actually took me about five months to change my

Facebook to denote activist after the Rachel Maddow Show interview. Q Okay. Let's talk about some of your activism other than,

just very briefly for background, other than the March,

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April -- and maybe talk about May, we'll talk about that too, and November. Other than the March, April, May and

November -- the March, April and November, and we'll talk about May later, have you ever participated or led, should I say, led deployments, to use a military word, international activism? A Q If I could go in reverse chronological order? Yeah, please do. MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor, relevancy. Overruled. I had just returned from the Kingdom

THE WITNESS:

of the Netherlands, where in Amsterdam I was able to celebrate and commemorate the Stone Wall riots with over 80 uniformed members of the Dutch military to include three active duty flag officers, generals. Before that -BY MR. FELDMAN: Q But was anybody appointed as the grand marshal of Gay

Pride Amsterdam? A On the front page of their national paper, I don't know

the translation precisely, but words to the effect of, fired in the U.S., guest of honor at Gay Pride. Q Was the guest of honor roughly equivalent to us New York

or us D.C.'ing a grand marshal in your opinion? A Yes. They had me cut the ribbon, along with a lieutenant

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colonel in the British navy. Q Thank you. Continue, sir, with your chronological backwards. A Yes. Before Amsterdam Pride, I was very honored to stand

with Russians in Moscow to celebrate their identity, although the Gay Pride in Moscow has been deemed illegal by the city government for six years now. Q A Did you get arrested again? I was taken into custody and I was beaten and forced to

the ground by Neo-Nazis and Russian Orthodox protestors who themselves had an antigay pride march the week before, fully sanctioned by the Moscow government. When I was taken into custody, I was not handcuffed and, in fact, I was allowed to tweet. And in the Russian

jail, which was very clean, I was very well respected by even the Neo-Nazis who were perplexed that there was a openly gay member of the United States military or a veteran thereof. We had a long conversation about many topics, including the Westboro Baptist Church, colloquially known as the God hates fags church. And before Russian, I was asked to be the grand marshal of many internationally known gay pride parades, LGBT pride marches or parades in New York City, Miami. Q What year, as some of us know, were you the New York City By the way, other than the

grand marshal of the Gay Pride?

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International Gay pride, do you know what is the largest gay pride parade in the world? A Q I believe it is either New York or a Spanish city. Okay. But New York, as far as you know, is it in the

millions of people who celebrate that parade? A Yes. In fact, this year with the passage of the Marriage

Equality Bill -Q A In New York? In New York, there were estimated to be over a million And significantly, New York itself celebrates

celebrators.

the Stone Wall riots, which happened over 40 years ago. Q And when where you the grand marshal of the New York City

Gay Pride Parade? A Q 2010. Just last, just after -- you were the guy before the last

one? A Q Yes. Now, I want to talk about the handcuffs. There has been

a lot to-do about these handcuffs. property? A Q A Q A Yes. Please explain. Yes. Please explain.

Were those handcuffs your

By the way, did they cost over $300?

The handcuffs were purchased through an organization

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dedicated to civil rights and direct action called Get Equal. This organization paid the bill initially for the handcuffs, but ownership of that property was transferred to me. Q Was that constructive and actual possession? You were holding on to them? Oh, you are

not the lawyer. A

I did help to organize them in such a way that the

protestors would be able to access their own individual handcuffs. Q I helped with that.

But you would say that the person -- this is a legal Who possessed them? Had them, took

conclusion or whatever.

care of them, custody of them? A Q I did, along with some of the other organizers. So, it would be fair to say they cost over $300 and that

they were your property? A Q Yes. Thank you. Okay. Let's go back a little bit. And again, what

year were you discharged from the United States army? A My official discharge from the army, the second of which,

I have an honorable discharge, was June of 2010. Q Did you stand trial for being a homosexual? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor. Overruled. Yes. Under the statute, the former

THE WITNESS:

statute, 10 United States Code 654, known as don't ask, don't

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tell, I was one of over 14,000 who had to stand trial and ultimately get discharged from the military. And that trial

happened, technically it was called an Administrative Board for Withdrawal of Federal Recognition, as I was in the New York Army National Guard. The Withdrawal of Federal

Recognition Board essentially would not allow me to use the U.S. army name tape. And that trial happened over a year

before the ultimate discharge. So I was serving openly, as an openly gay American in my national guard infantry unit with the support of my soldiers and the support of my commander, who told me even if you cannot wear your U.S. army name tape, you are welcome to our unit any time. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Do you have an opinion as to why your commander permitted

such and your men accepted such for over a year, even though you had been found to have violated DADT? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection, calls for hearsay. Overruled. Not what

Your perception of their views about you. they said, but what you saw. THE WITNESS:

Through Facebook messages and through

actual conversations with my commander, Lieutenant Colonel John Andonie, A-N-D-O-N-I-E, also a West Point graduate, he felt and my soldiers felt that if I can tell the truth about

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my sexual orientation and risk my career and not chase rank, privilege, status or pension, that's the kind of person we want to go to Iraq with. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Let's start with the march, the first one. In your own

words, the way Ms. George was questioning Captain Pietrangelo, in that kind of way, sequentially, let's start with March. A Please explain.

On March 17th, 2010, I was with my unit, the 69th

Infantry Regiment, marching in the Saint Patrick's Day parade and also working security in the headquarters at our armory on 26th Street and Lexington in Manhattan. Immediately after

duty, I rode the Chinatown bus to Washington, D.C. with a fresh haircut and a set of army combat uniforms. I arrived at the bus station where I was picked up by Paul Yandura, Donald Hitchcock, Robin McGehee, Michelle Wright, and I believe their dog, Deputy. Q Are any or all of those people in your perception

considered public figures? A Yes, and I admired them greatly. They were also mentors

to me on a personal level.

Robin McGehee and I were a part

of the executive committee organizing the March on Washington in October of 2009, where I believe the park police or park services do not estimate the number of attendees anymore, but politically, it was a successful message.

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We won't give that number.

We know how biased it is.

But what was the number given, if you know? A Q A Over 250,000. Okay. Please continue.

As we continued to fight for equality, not only the

repeal of don't ask, don't tell, but marriage equality in states such as California with Proposition Eight and Maine with Question One, which I participated in many marches and rallies. I spoke on stages in Los Angeles and San Francisco,

in Orono, which is the north part of Maine past the AMTRAK stations, as well as fundraisers and political organizations throughout the country. I found myself becoming more and more of an outspoken activist. And I want to note that my first public

speech about gay rights happened one month after coming out on the Rachel Maddow Show and not before. Q Okay. Now, just very briefly, on approximately how many

local radio stations -- when I say local, at the time when you lived on -- well, anyway, let's just wrap this up real quick because I want to get to the March stuff. In terms of public figure, approximately how many times have you appeared on TV or radio? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: presented. Objection, relevancy. I think it bears on the questions

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Please answer. THE WITNESS: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Total, your whole activism career, how many times have In March --

you appeared on either radio or TV? A Q A Q Your Honor, it is too many to count. More than 100 or less than 100? More than 100. How many times have you appeared in publications; A thousand or more, 500 or more?

national, international? An estimate? A Q

It seems to be about a million at this point. Okay. Last night, do you have any idea how many articles

were, appeared -- I'm sorry, local papers about this trial? A Q Over 130. When you walk on the street or in public areas such as

Union Station, right here, are you regularly greeted, asked for your autograph, asked to shake your hand, asked to take your pictures with? A Q Yes. Give the most recent one. MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: It wasn't with me.

Objection. Overruled. It was an attempt at humor. Go ahead.

MR. FELDMAN: THE WITNESS:

At Union Station I was having lunch

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with my counsel as well as my close friends, and an African-American woman who was an air force veteran pointed at me with her eyes opened very big, and started saying, ooh. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A Who was she with? Who was she with? She told me that

She was with her son and her husband.

every time I appear on MSNBC, she forces her son, 17 years old, to stop whatever he is doing and listen to what is happening, for this is the new civil rights movement. Q All right. I'll move on. I think I beat the horse. Did there come a time on the I mean, how many times were you

Well, one more time. radio when you were stopped?

stopped in the last few days by people in this building? A Washington, D.C. is very common for any time I go

outside, at least two or three people recognize me and stop me. And I assume that those who disagree with me simply

don't. Q Okay. I'll move on. Okay. Tell the Judge what

Let's go right to March.

you -- the March rally, okay, the first one, whatever date it was. The one that we belabored, litigated, dissected. I'm

not going to do that now. again.

I'm not going to play the tape

I am just going to ask you for a brief statement in

your own words, what happened, what was your intent and how did it end?

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When we found that the human rights campaign organized a

rally headlined by Kathy Griffin, a comedian, as their main effort in the public discourse to repeal don't ask, don't tell, we also found from a Congressman, Barney Frank, that -Q A Q A He is gay, too, right? Yes, he is openly gay. Homosexual? And he remarked that President Obama does not intend to

repeal, does not intent to repeal don't ask, don't tell in year 2010, or words to that effect. Which angered many of

the activists who had been fired by don't ask, don't tell, to ask our movement leaders, is a rally with Kathy Griffin the best you can do? Q A Because she is not a homosexual? She is not, neither is she the president of the United

States of America. Q A Thank you. And I believe that a rally at Freedom Plaza would not

suffice in pressuring our president, the most powerful man in the world, to succumb to our demands of equality in the military. We believed that he could repeal don't ask, don't

tell effectively through an executive order, much like -Q A Q Mistakenly believed. Much like the Executive Order 9981 by Harry Truman. What was that? What did Harry Truman do, President Harry

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Truman do with that one? A That was a desegregation order. MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A For negroes? Yes, for all races and religions. It was entitled The That was the Objection. Desegregated the armed forces, right?

Equal Treatment and Equal Opportunity Act.

blueprint for our efforts to repeal don't ask, don't tell, in our legislations called The Military Readiness Enhancement Act, HR 1283, which demanded an equal opportunity channel for harassed or soldiers, I say soldiers to mean all military service members, all soldiers who had been discriminated against, as well as enact a nondiscrimination policy and stop the discharges of anybody based on their telling the truth about their sexual orientation. This was our main piece of legislation that we wanted, not only the House of Representatives to pass, at that time it was quarterbacked by Congressman Patrick Murphy of Pennsylvania. In the Senate, there was no bill. And so,

we wanted to pressure the president to use his Rolodex. Q A Q A We don't call it Rolodex anymore. To use his -Database. -- database and his significant influence in this town to

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perhaps pressure senators to help him keep his campaign promise. Q We were motivated -I'm sorry to cut you off. And did he make

And he did.

such promise to you and to me and to the people of this country, the entire LGBT community, as a senator? A Not only as a senator, as a candidate, stating -- I'm

trying to quote. Q Is there anything that would refresh your recollection? MS. GEORGE: Objection, Your Honor. Relevancy and

he hasn't said his memory needs to be refreshed. THE COURT: Overruled. I don't need refreshing. The quote I want

THE WITNESS:

was, "I want you to hold our government accountable. you to hold me accountable."

There was another event at the human rights campaign fundraising dinner which happened on the heels of our march on Washington in October of 2009, where the president said, and I will paraphrase if that's all right? Q A Yeah. I will end don't ask, don't tell. That is my commitment

to you.

Just as nobody can tell me that African-Americans

should have been patient during their struggle for civil rights and equality -Q He actually said that, right? THE COURT: Finish your answer, please.

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THE WITNESS:

Yes, Your Honor.

-- nobody should tell you that you should be patient; I want you to hold me accountable. I was in

uniform, in fact, this very uniform, standing at attention throughout the entire time of my commander-in-chief's speech. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Okay. Anything else you want to say about March 10th?

I'm sorry, March 18th? A March 18th was a day that I will never forget in my life

because one year of radio and television interviews made me very tired and made me wonder why I needed to continue making speeches that fly in the air. I felt that in the vein of the

civil rights history of our country, we could have a moment like the lunch counter sit-in moment at Greensboro, North Carolina, where the four students, Blair, McNeil, McCain, and I believe his name is Robertson -Q A Who were they? They were the four students who refused to leave the

segregated lunch counters at the Woolworth's department store. Q A What city was that? This was in Greensboro, North Carolina. That was the

first day of their particular operation, not the first day of lunch counter sit-ins. Q By the way, I'm sorry to interrupt you, did those four

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young people ever stand up and get away from that lunch counter? A To my recollection of history, they stayed until the And the next day, I believe On the third day, And this And I

closing of that restaurant.

there were 20 students that joined them.

there were 60; on the fourth day, there were 300.

continued on until the lunch counter was desegregated.

believe of note, there were white students that joined them and there was a large amount of media attention garnered by the participation of those who looked like the majority, or looked like the oppressor. And for our moment at the White House, I recognized that in this uniform I might not look gay, and my friends that had been discharged from the military, they might not look Democrat, they might not look Christian, they look like the white people that joined those four and those 30 and those 60 and those 300 because they felt that if somebody could give up something that they had, something of their privilege deserved or undeserved, but not be able to achieve the promise of this country for all people. If they may be

able to die for their country, but not live equal in their country, that message would sting in the hearts of anyone watching and wonder why are we waiting? patient? Q Why should we remain silent? Why should we remain

So, on March 10th, there were only two standing together

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and unified before President Obama? THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q I'm sorry. On March 18the, there were only two standing I think you meant March 18th.

before President Obama; is that correct? A That is correct, although we had the help of many

hundreds in the rally that originated at Kathy Griffin's event. But one in particular was Robin McGehee, helped me And by chained, I mean, applied the handcuffs So, I had both of my hands And Captain Jim

chain myself.

to the White House fence.

attached, locked to the White House fence.

Pietrangelo, second, who only managed to get one hand locked. And I believe that was because a park services or park police officer prevented him from doing so. Q Anything else you want to say about March 18th,

Lieutenant? A I believe that it was a transformative moment for many

who realized that a complacent strategy or a comfortable strategy of giving speeches and attending fundraisers in fancy suits, that era needed to end. Q Is that -- you heard Ms. George crossing Captain James

Pietrangelo about that, couldn't you simply have just marched around Pennsylvania Avenue with a sign chanting? Would that

era of complacency you're referring to such as marching around the White House perimeter, chanting slogans, carrying

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signs -A I humbly submit that such an action would make it harder

to achieve the aims that we profess. Q A Please explain. I believe that the many activists in Washington, D.C. who

get arrested in the front of many kinds of buildings, many of these events happen on the weekends. are very much like a picnic. Many of these events

And this is a grave insult to

the true sacrifice of the civil rights movement, where African-Americans put their bodies on the line, facing down violence of a state apparatus born in fear and terror. I

believe that when you see pictures of the dogs and firehoses being turned on and sicced on the innocent and nonviolent demanders of equality, your heart must tremble if you are a patriotic American that finds liberty and justice more important than life itself. Q Was their euphemism to those dogs and those hoses

present, executed and threatened by the government of the United States of America on March 18th, when you were so courageously deploying your activist civil disobedience? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection. Overruled.

Did you understand the question? THE WITNESS: I do understand. I believe that the

snipers on the White House roof who came out in clear view,

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as well as the overwhelming force -- and I use those words specifically because in the military we would call it overwhelming fire power -BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A Be specific. On that day, be specific.

On that day, there were no firehoses or attack dogs, but

the threat of violence by this government was absolute and undeniable. I believe that any time a soldier points a gun,

he must have the right, based on the law of land warfare and the Geneva Conventions, Treaty and Custom, to use force or threaten that force. In defense, certainly a soldier may And I did not think

shoot, particularly in a combat zone.

that we were presenting any kind of violence, particularly in any way, measure or commensurate to the violence that I had seen in Iraq, where innocent civilians had their faces pointed at by M4 carbine rifles that could inflict deadly lethal force. I did not think that in the situation of March 18th, that we presented any kind of threat in a violent manner, for we had no weapons, except for the truth, and we had no ammunition, except for our love. And we had no other

strategy than the perseverance of our movement. Q Did you obstruct the highways and byways with that, with Was that evident on the

your deployment on March 18th? video? Was that your intent?

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I am not an expert on these matters, but I have trained

at the National Training Center on how to conduct traffic control points in a combat situation. police officers. I have trained Iraqi

I have remained good friends with many of I have worked with military We have patrolled

them who know that I'm gay.

training teams throughout my deployment.

the road from Kuwait to Syria and the one from Kuwait to Jordan. We patrolled and we understand the idea of movement

and maneuver as well as enemy forces. I understand any operation in the military construct in terms of the most probable course of action, the MPCOA, and the most dangerous course of action, the MDCOA. Many

reckless commanders will always say that the MDCOA is the MPCOA; however, I know that that is not true. When we It

approached, it was not our intention to block traffic.

was not our intention to obstruct any kind of pedestrian thoroughfare or otherwise. I believe that the only person

that was obstructing anything was this president obstructing our journey to equality. Q Well, let's get a little less lofty, please. I'm just a

humble trial lawyer, and this Honorable Court is a great judge. But let's specifically talk about who really was I mean, not the president, he was home, Let's bring

obstructing the way. I assume.

Who was really obstructing the way?

it down one notch, please.

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Sometimes I -- I remember that when we approached the

White House, the park police officer, he was in a white uniform, white blouse or shirt, he -MS. GEORGE: are we talking about? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: The 18th of March. Excuse me, Your Honor, which incident

The 18th of March. He tried to prevent us from standing

THE WITNESS: at all.

The moment he saw us, or passing by at all, without

interrogating us as to what we were doing there, I remarked that we are nonviolent and I thought that was all that I had to prove to him. case. He allowed us to have our demonstration and I read this speech before about a hundred people. It was And I believe that that was, in fact, the

un-permitted, and I did not believe that we needed a permit, although I was not familiar with the exact regulations at the time. I think that when we approached in military uniform, that some people would believe we had the ability to be violent. And I think some people think anybody with military And so, it was

experience has a propensity to use violence.

very important for me to ensure that anybody being involved in such an action of political pressure, would commit to the tenets of Gandhian and Kingian, nonviolence, which were in

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many ways founded in the Bible. And I believe that Captain James Pietrangelo, although he had military experience and I hardly knew him at the time -BY MR. FELDMAN: Q A You had just met him a couple of days before, right? We had phone conversations, but by the time we were on

the White House stoop, I believe we had only seen each other face to face about 12 hours. necessarily who to trust. In military, I don't know

Even in your unit, a commander

must make sure that the soldiers are educated and controlled through an inculcation of the morality as well as the ethics and values of military service, as well as combatant regulations and responsibilities. However, I remembered that Mohandas Gandhi, Mohandas K. Gandhi was himself in the military. And when he engaged

in nonviolent civil disobedience or civil resistance, he, in fact, trusted people who understood violence, for they knew what would happen and what reaction violence would invoke in their mind. And in their reaction to violence, I believe

Gandhi noted that the word nonviolence depends on the word violence. For, you cannot truly understand nonviolence until

you understand violence and what way you would react in a violent situation. So, when I had a phone conversation with Captain

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Pietrangelo about three days before the event, I decided that I had to test whether this was a person I could trust. told me that he was in combat, but I know some former combatants who remain very violent. And as he was a former He

infantry soldier, an enlisted man, I did not know if he had a penchant for violence or destruction. So, I asked him what if we have a demonstration, and in order to get more attention, we ignite a smoke bomb that would not be lethal force, but it could be construed as a violent action. Q A Or threatening? A threatening action, a menacing action. I thought that

we needed to garner as much attention as possible so in that context, I offered this idea. we cannot do that. Q A Which idea? The idea to ignite a smoke bomb, a cannister of gas. He Captain Pietrangelo said that

said, absolutely not, Dan, because as Martin Luther King taught us, darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. that. Q Okay. Was it your intention to threaten -- I'm sorry, to Hatred cannot drive out hatred, only love can do

pose a threat to public safety, law enforcement actions and emergency operations that involved a threat to public safety or park resources or other activities where the control of

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public movement and activities is necessarily to maintain order and public safety, on March 18th? A Q None of those were stated goals. Okay. Was it your intention to pose a threat to public

safety, law enforcement actions and emergency operations that involved a threat to public safety or park resources or other activities, where the control of public movement and activities is necessary to maintain order and public safety, on the April one, yes or no? A No, not at all. In fact, if any of those were our stated

intentions, I believe it would be defeating the purpose of our political impression. Q Was there another deployment that the government

neglected to mention, between the March one, the April one and the November one? A Q Yes, there was. Let's skip that. Let's go to November. Unless you want Was there a May one?

to talk about May? THE COURT: Why don't we do that. Why don't we give We'll reassemble

our hard working court reporter 10 minutes. at five of. (A brief recess was taken.) THE COURT:

Please proceed, counsel. With the Court's permission and with

MR. FELDMAN:

the U.S. Attorney's Office, we are admitting into evidence

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Defendant's B. THE COURT: work? MR. KENT: THE COURT: best we can. (Defendant's Exhibit B, a videotape, was played.) BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Lieutenant, can you please describe in better detail than Right. Put it on your laptop and we'll do the You put a DVD in there and it did not

maybe was visible, is this from a different view basically, than we have on the tape? A Q Yes, I believe it is from the press cordoned-off section. So it would be from -MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: Objection. We saw today earlier, Lieutenant, didn't

we, a video that showed us that there was a median on the other side of the yellow line? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes.

Is it your understanding that that is

the perspective from which this particular section is taken? THE WITNESS: Washington Blade. THE COURT: D.C. THE WITNESS: Yes. Which is, I know it as a newspaper in Yes. And I believe this came from the

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BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Okay. Please continue the tape. Oh, stop it there, I

forgot to ask you, please explain the position of your arm when the government agent put his hands on your arm? A I honestly do not recall exactly what was going on. When

I saw this video for the first time a few days ago, I was surprised to see some of that happen. Q But did that refresh your recollection of what happened

to your body? A I actually could not see what was exactly happening to my But there were many sensations that were happening But I couldn't possibly

body.

throughout the entire ordeal.

understand who was doing what or what body part was being twisted in which way. Q Was any of your body parts twisted in which way? And

after viewing the video, did you come to understand which part of your body was twisted which way? A Yes, I believe my left arm was the most twisted, as you And I also now realize why I

can see here (indicating).

couldn't feel my index finger for about two weeks after this incident. Q Please continue the videotape. (Videotape resumed.) MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

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BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Do you need to or want to comment further on the November

15th deployment and arrest? A November 15th arrest was very surprising in my mind,

especially looking back at that video and seeing it in the detail, which is clearly much more graphic than I previously -- I do not recall a lot of what happened, but I also do not recall if I blacked out. I have been unconscious

before momentarily because of combat, particularly mortars that exploded on the other side of a concrete barrier for an operating base, Mahmudia. And I have seen the procedures of

detention, detainee operations being used with less violence than what I saw here. But I believe some of the tactics are similar to the ones that we learned for war. remember it as a combat zone. And as I look back on it, I do I believed that the park

police at that time were the ones that were obstructing traffic because as we marched, walked from Lafayette Park to the White House stoop, I did not think that the police squad wagons for any reason just happened to be there for any permanent or nonpermanent activity. I was very surprised to

see that the obstruction of traffic had already been committed by the park police. And I remember very clearly, Many of them

there was a lot of nervousness in the group. were first-time offenders, so to speak.

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Alleged offenders, I hate to correct you and forgive me

for leading, Judge. A I believe that many people didn't know the exact words to

use, and I suppose I still don't know the right words to use. But those that were with me, many of them, for them it was a spiritual moment as well because they were going through what I went through in March. And I had to remain cognizant of

that because I know exactly the procedures that might be used because I had been there twice before. organize a third event in May which -Q A Please explain briefly. There were six civilians that wore an Uncle Sam white We had a stayaway And I helped to

T-shirt saying, I Want You To Report DADT.

order imposed from the Municipal Court as we were still awaiting judgment for the two arrests that happened in March and April. Q So, you had an open case when you were doing that one,

basically? A Q A Yes. Right. The Court said if you, Honorable Judge Ringell, I

believe, ordered us to stay away from the White House or we would be in contempt of Court. And I was not willing to -- I

did not think that we would accomplish anything by doing that.

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Q A

So you respected that judge's decision? Absolutely. I saluted him twice at arraignment. And I

remember he remarked that he had never been saluted before in this Court. Q Let me stop you for a second. What was the disposition,

if you know, of the two prior alleged criminal cases, criminal cases? A I believe at the Municipal Court they told us it was

failure to obey a traffic -- they put a T on our wristbands. And so, the U.S. Marshals, the next morning as we spent the night in the cellblock, the U.S. Marshals told us it was just a traffic violation. And so, we would go before this very

common judge that most everybody knows. Q A Traffic guy? Yes. And many people told us about Judge Ringell and

advised us that usually you would post and forfeit, or I believe the word was nolo contendere. Not being guilty, but

just saying I want to be done with this, let me move on. After the two arrests, they imposed a stayaway order and we abided by that. So that in May, when six civilians

were getting arrested, we dared not cross Pennsylvania Avenue. Q A Q You did not? We did not. Okay. Did there come a time that you met a individual

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that later became known to you as a Mr. Hodge or Mr. Hodges? MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Also known as Sergeant Detective Hodges of the United Objection, relevancy. Overruled.

States park police? A I believe that Detective Hodge, I did not know his name

until -Q A Timothy Hodge. All right. Timothy Hodge was the detective who asked We were not afforded a I

many questions in March of 2010.

lawyer and I did not know any of the procedure for arrest. did not know my rights really.

After asking us our military

status, he ordered me to stand up in a military tone as if he was my drill sergeant. Q A Q A Q A Describe his physical character, if you can. He was tall and dressed very nicely. Was he taller than you? I believe so. He was very imposing. I'm -And --

Even taller than you? I am five foot, 11.

How tall are you?

And he was a little bit taller than

me as I recall.

Most of the time I was either sitting down And when he

or on the ground or getting -- awaiting charges.

ordered me to stand up, he remarked in a very loud voice, I was in the Corps, which I assumed meant the Marine Corps.

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And continued on to say, and I know what you are not supposed to be doing. At which point he grabbed my rank insignia, it was velcro and violently ripped it off in a very ceremonious way. And I had never been treated like that since hazing at West Point, my plebe year. And then he grabbed the American flag

off of my right shoulder and even more ceremoniously ripped it off so that it would make a loud noise, as loud as he could. Choi. And he did the same with my last name tape, which had And then he said, get in your cell. This was at

Anacostia. Q Did there come a time when you ran into this individual

again? A The next time I saw him was in April. And he did not rip

off my insignia, but ensured that others took it off of me. He was clearly in command or he had a commanding presence. And then I saw him again this time in clear view of the public. And I believe that we made eye contact and he was And he was, again,

intending to make eye contact with me.

dressed very sharply with a trench coat and I believe a beige three-piece suit and shiny shoes. front of me in November. Q A Father Farrow? Father Raphael Farrow, that this was the guy that ripped I was surprised to And he stood right in

And I told the priest --

off my flag and he was in the Corps too.

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see him in public.

And he was the one who was also taking

off the rank as far as I saw, from my friend Specialist Rob Smith. Q And that is -Sorry. Remember --

Please, let me stop you there. MR. FELDMAN:

And I'm not going to play it again, But I'll mercifully not

Judge, unless you don't remember it. play it. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q

Do you remember when you guys were going, and please help Something like that?

me, he earned his rank, leave it on. MS. GEORGE: MR. FELDMAN:

I'm sorry, what did you say? He earned his rank, leave it on. Was

that -- how does that one go? THE WITNESS: off. He earned that rank, don't take it

And the reason why I was compelled to chant that was

that when you take somebody's rank from them, you make them your inferior in every sense of the word. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Sorry to interrupt you again. I know you have got a

great flow here, but I really want the Judge to hear it and to understand. What point did you feel compelled to go into that particular chant? A What caused you to do that?

I saw Detective Sergeant Timothy Hodge, again, taking the

rank off of a fellow veteran.

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THE COURT:

And that was Smith? Rob Smith, Specialist. Yes, sir.

THE WITNESS: MR. FELDMAN:

At this point, I ask that this be And

marked as Defense C for identification purposes only.

since this is not a jury trial, I'm going to, for purposes of connection from Mr. Hodge, I'm going to ask to admit this as an official police business report record subject to connection? I understand I have no consent, but I'm going to

make that motion now, Judge. THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: not on the stand. THE COURT: May I see it. Let me see it, please. Objection, Your Honor. The witness is

(The Court peruses the document.) THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: What is the nature of the objection? Your Honor, it's a report related to a

witness that is not on the stand at this point in time. THE COURT: Okay. But it is an official report. It comes in as an

It's an admission against interest. exception to the hearsay rule. MR. FELDMAN:

Defense C, it's called.

(Defendant's Exhibit C was admitted into evidence.) MR. FELDMAN: Can I have one moment, Judge? Thank

Can I have one minute and just talk to -- do you

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mind, Judge? time, Judge?

Do you mind if I just take two minutes of your

(A pause in the proceedings.) MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: cross-examine. For the purposes of the record, Lieutenant, would you be kind enough to stand up? (Witness complied.) THE COURT: And you're about five-eleven? How much No you further questions. You may

Thank you very much.

would you estimate your weight? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Two hundred.

Were you in athletics at West Point? Yes. You may sit down.

THE WITNESS: THE COURT:

What were they?

THE WITNESS:

I played rugby as well as I was a I also competed in the Sandhurst

swimmer and orienteering.

competition, participated in trainings. THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: Thank you. Go ahead.

Thank you, Your Honor. CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MS. GEORGE: Q A Good afternoon, Mr. Choi. Good afternoon. MR. FELDMAN: Lieutenant Choi, please.

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BY MS. GEORGE: Q Earlier in your testimony in response to Mr. Feldman's

questions, you said that there had came a point in time where you became, excuse me if I don't use the correct word, frustrated with the complacency of just giving speeches in relationship to your, I think you said advocacy or activism? A Q Yes, there was a time when I was extremely frustrated. And what was it about giving speeches that you thought

was complacent or ineffective to get your cause out? A Well, I believe that after having given about a hundred

speeches at colleges, universities as well as corporate trainings, there are effective speeches and there are ineffective speeches. Some speeches as anybody who has

listened to a speech, tend to fall flat or they don't connect. I believe that all of the speeches that were happening, including the speeches made by the President of the United States, fell flat. Because without action, what In fact, if

use are the words that profess some action.

there are words that represent no actions as if they were, in fact, actions, they are lies. Q So, you felt like you needed to do something to give a

greater significance to your cause; is that correct? A Q Absolutely, yes. So, on March 17th, I believe Mr. Pietrangelo testified

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that you -MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q That you met on March 17th, 2010. I think you testified Captain Pietrangelo, please.

Please, call everybody by their name.

it was maybe three or four days before March 18th that you met. But it was shortly before March 18, 2010, that you and

Mr. Pietrangelo -MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Captain Pietrangelo, please. They've been established.

All right.

Ms. George, do you -- please explain something to me: Do you have an objection to referring to these gentlemen

as the rank they achieved in the United States army? MS. GEORGE: Honor. Yes, I do. THE COURT: I appreciate that. But I would like to So, They're not in the military, Your

think after I retire, people still will call me judge.

the title that one captures at one point in his life usually follows him. do you. I call retired judges Judge all the time and so

What's the difference? MS. GEORGE: Is the Court ordering me to refer to

him as -THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: I would appreciate it if you would. Thank you, Your Honor. I will.

You don't have to refer to me as

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Sergeant Facciola, okay? BY MS. GEORGE: Q A Q Lieutenant Choi? Yes, Ma'am. So you felt like you needed to do something to bring

focus to your cause because the speeches were ineffective? A Q Not only me, but the entire country. Okay. And you met with, is it Captain? Yes.

MR. FELDMAN: BY MS. GEORGE: Q

Captain Pietrangelo shortly before March 18, 2010; is

that correct? A Q Yes. About 12 hours before.

And did you have the 300 handcuffs at that point in time

that the organization had given you? MR. FELDMAN: 300 handcuffs. THE COURT: MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: handcuffs. MS. GEORGE: had 300 handcuffs. THE COURT: You tell us, Lieutenant. I thought you Did I Oh, no. I thought he met, he said he $300 handcuffs. I'm sorry, Your Honor? I thought he said they were $300 Objection, there's no testimony about

said you had one pair of handcuffs and it costs $300.

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get that wrong? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: The sets of handcuffs cost over $300.

Each set cost $300? About 14 of them would cost more than

THE WITNESS: $300.

We actually chose to purchase more than 13, but not

less than 20 for any action from March to April, May and November. $300. BY MS. GEORGE: Q Okay. So there were somewhere between -- well, no more So, the cost cumulatively is far greater than

than 20 handcuffs according to you; is that correct? A Q A Q For this incident, yes. In reference to March 18th? There were 15. Fifteen. And you had those handcuffs when you met with

Captain Pietrangelo; is that correct? A Q Yes. Yes. And you and he discussed how to operate the

handcuffs; isn't that correct? A We knew how to operate handcuffs from our military

training. Q And so, you're familiar with the fact -- let me just ask The handcuffs that you possessed at that point in

you this:

time shortly before March 18th, were they standard handcuffs? A We purchased them at a leather shop and we got a

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discounted version.

They were not Smith & Wesson, because we

felt that the entire country should rise up against injustice. And we wanted anybody, including Kathy Griffin,

to join us in our actions. Q A Q And they came with handcuff keys, correct? Yes. And you actually possessed a handcuff key on March 18th,

2010; isn't that correct? A As I recall, there was a handcuff key in my left cargo -And one of the park police

I'm sorry, right cargo pocket.

officers grabbed into that cargo pocket and very nonviolently uncuffed me. Q But prior to being uncuffed, you had someone assist you

in handcuffing you to the fence; isn't that correct? A Q Yes. And was that individual at the meeting with you and

Captain Pietrangelo? A Q Yes. And you planned for her to specifically handcuff you to

the fence; isn't that correct? A I would be remiss if I did not honor the actions that she And I'm very proud that she intended to help, And the

engaged in.

especially as Robin McGehee had two small children.

risk that she took in order to help me with this action actually ended her, landed her in prison for a few hours. I

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believe the charge was disorderly conduct or disrupting the peace or something like that. THE COURT: Could you answer her question? Yes, sir. I don't

THE WITNESS: THE COURT:

Would you repeat your question?

think you got your answer. BY MS. GEORGE: Q I asked him if you planned for her to handcuff you to the

fence? A Q Yes, Ma'am. And you planned that because you thought it would bring

more focus to your cause and it would be more dramatic? A I don't believe that whether she did that or you did that I believe the drama comes from

it would be more dramatic.

the message that we were willing to send directly into the residence of the President of the United States. The drama

in itself, did not matter the agents that were used, only the sacrifice that was promulgated to the entire world that watched. The drama, I believe, sprouted from the That did

discrimination that we were trying to visualize.

not depend on Robin McGehee, it did not depend on Kathy Griffin, it did not depend on my attorney or your supervisor, it only depended on each and every one of us being willing to tell this president that he needed to take action. And we

wanted to dramatize it in the greatest way possible.

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Thank you. And so, when you were there, you didn't have any

intention of un-handcuffing yourself from the fence because you wanted to bring focus to what you're doing; isn't that correct? A To be honest, my intentions were very confused. When put

in the context of whether I would be in violation of a law, I have never broken a law, particularly as an activist. so, the confusion came from the unknown. And

I did not intend

myself to go to jail per se, but I risked that consequence. And the risking of the consequence, I believe, is just as courageous and should be admired just as much as the action, whether you are incarcerated for life. But the

dramatization happens when a courageous person actually does get violently thrown into prison, for it visualizes that each and every one of us have that courage. But the ability to

artfully and eloquently or visually dramatize it is the actions necessary of any practitioner of civil resistance or nonviolent civil disobedience. Q And, Lieutenant Choi, you risked the consequence of going

to prison because that would bring more focus to your cause; isn't that correct? A I believe that when we go to jail, as many dissidents or

political activists in many countries do, we take notice. And the reason why we take notice is because it is uncommon

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for someone to risk jail and the abridgment of freedom so that others can have their just and due respect, dignity, stature, equality and freedom. I was not only willing to go

to jail, I was willing to die for my country and I'm still willing to die for my country. Q And you also were willing, after you were arrested, to

give a speech in front of the D.C. Superior Court courthouse; isn't that correct, in reference to your arrest on March 18th? A I believe in that speech, the most important thing that I

said was we will not disappear, we're going to do it again. And that willingness to say that, the willingness after we got released from jail overnight with cockroaches, was meant, yes, to send a message to the souls and the hearts of every young gay kid that they can do it too. anything, so be it. If that is inciting

I want every gay child to realize that

life is worthwhile, that they have value and that they should have a stirring in their own hearts to stand up and join me. And when we had more people join us the next time, it was, in fact, not a carbon copy, but the corollary to the Greensboro lunch counter sit-ins at the Woolworth department store. Q And so, what you just mentioned, a corollary to the

Greensboro sit-ins, you actually talked about that in those meetings between March 18th and April 20th; isn't that correct?

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A Q

Incessantly. Yes. And in those meetings, as Captain Pietrangelo said,

you all worked with the handcuffs and put the handcuffs on each other and used the handcuff keys, correct? A Every operation needs its due training. And I believe

that an operation of this magnitude should be trained so that we do not dive into a never-ending spiral of violence or manic nightmares of the many countries that we fought in. didn't want America to become Iraq. We

We thought that we were

free in America and that we enjoyed freedoms to profess our beliefs and our demands for equality. that. We practice it every day. And I'm about to train as hard as possible and help others to train. If you would like to train, I would welcome So yes, we practiced

you to come and train with us because I believe that it is the duty of everyone, the First Amendment, not only to have the right to protest our government for redress of grievances, I believe it's a moral responsibility to. For if

we remain silent and refuse to train, that would be a moral repudiation of Dr. Martin Luther King, an ethical violation of what it means to be a patriotic American. trained. Q So, are you saying that you believe that the First So, yes, we

Amendment of the Constitution gives you the right, if you feel passionate about something, to do whatever you want to

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do to get that cause out to the people of the United States of America? A There are many things that I want to do. In fact, be

somewhere other than here right now. that -THE COURT:

There are many things

I beg your pardon? Your Honor, I don't think that this is

THE WITNESS:

the most comfortable situation for anybody. There many things that I want to do. I want to go

back into the military right now, but I can't because the Constitution right now does not say that I can. But the

right to speak on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves is more than a privilege, it's a moral responsibility. And I take that seriously. I'm not shouting

fire, but I do believe that speech should be uninhibited, robust and wide open. BY MS. GEORGE: Q And you agree it has no limits? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q You agree it has no limits if you feel passionate about Objection, he did not say that. I think it's fair.

That's all right.

what you're saying? A In Iraq we had many people practicing free speech. In

fact, I remember the chanting of one group of very violent

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men, military-aged men, who said Bush, Bush (speaking in foreign language.) Bush, listen well, we all love Saddam Hussein. believe that certain speech, yes, can incite violence. I I

believe that hearing the call to prayer from a minaret in some people's minds and opinions, especially if you are Islamaphobic, can incite violence. that speech? But what is the intent of

I believe that the call to prayer from a mosque And if

in America does not threaten me, but maybe others do. you do, that's your opinion.

If you act on that violence, then I believe you are an immoral person. In Iraq, I heard from a Shi'a minaret,

called the Hassania. Q Lieutenant Choi, do you think you can answer the question Do you think your right to free speech

I asked, which is:

has any limits as far as your actions are concerned? MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Objection, he was answering it.

Please, answer her question if you can. Yes. Any limits includes many things. Any limit

THE WITNESS:

And I wish to address every single possibility.

that would be imposed for any kind of action, I don't know how to answer that specifically, Your Honor. But I can say

that from my personal experience, there are some people who believe that any speech is not freely granted by the Constitution.

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I don't believe that any speech that incites violence with the full force of intention to cause violence, for instance, if I was commanding any of the people in the audience in a military capacity, and they were, by law, obligated to carry out my commands, and they were given weapons by me and I said fire, I think that would be different, far different from the intention of what Oliver Wendell Homes said. not be his or mine. So, your interpretation of fire might In a military uniform, it certainly

means a different thing. In this context we use no words that were intended to incite violence on anyone; you, the judge, the park police. But I do believe there was speech that was made by

the park police that did incite violence because it commanded people to use violence against us. So, I would say yes, there is some speech that should be curtailed. In fact, I think the speech in question

here really is not whether we were saying President Obama, political homophobia, but the speech by the lieutenants and the captains, you know, our honorable park police, that said arrest those people with violent force. should be curtailed. That I believe

And anyone who believes in the meaning

of our judicial, our justice system, if they believe in our First Amendment, then they should fight tooth and nail to preserve the nonviolent intention of free speech, yes.

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So, you're saying that you actually heard on one of these

occasions, March 18th or April 20th or November the 15th, a park police officer said to arrest them with violent force? MR. FELDMAN: Speech means conduct. BY MS. GEORGE: Q You actually heard that? THE COURT: She has a right to ask the question. Objection, what does she mean by Objection, she still doesn't get it.

MR. FELDMAN:

speech, a legal word or a nonlegal word? THE COURT: She's just following with what he said.

The objection is overruled. Go ahead, Ms. George. THE WITNESS: Ma'am? BY MS. GEORGE: Q You said you heard, heard, park police officers say, Which date was that, Can you please repeat that question,

arrest these people with violent force. March 18th, April 20th or November 15th? MR. FELDMAN: anything. Objection.

He didn't say he heard

She doesn't get it. I'm afraid that's what I heard.

THE COURT:

You indicated that you believe what the park police said was inappropriate, inciting violence. Why did you, if

you feel that way, Lieutenant, what did they say?

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THE WITNESS:

There is a very important conjunction, And

if, that I believe I preceded those words, if, I heard. if that's not in the record, then I'd like that to be corrected.

If I heard, then I believe that speech, yes, must

be curtailed. BY MS. GEORGE: Q So you, as far as you're concerned, you didn't hear any

park police officers say, arrest Lieutenant Choi with violent force? A You've corrected that; is that correct? And if you've heard it, I would

I have not heard it.

like that information, yes. Q Thank you. You spent some time in response to Mr. Feldman's questions, commenting that you didn't obstruct traffic. A Because we did not. This government obstructed traffic.

There was nobody that was trying to walk along the stoop. And if there was, I believe we would be wholly and considerate to allow them that practice. However, I do not

think we blocked any traffic, but I believe that we blocked the view, yes. Q A Of the White House? With a better view. A view of freedom because this is You know what I was thinking when I thought what's the meaning

what equality looks like.

I was chained up to that fence?

of whatever is behind here if you don't have anything chained

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up to here?

What's the meaning of our country if it's not You know what I thought in

worth fighting for and dying for?

my head as those people were menacing us with the weapons and the apparatus of the state fear mechanisms, I thought that Isaiah The Prophet was correct. And as I stood there, I "No weapon

recalled the verse, from Chapter 54 of that book: formed against you shall prosper.

And every tongue which This is

rises against you in judgment, you shall condemn. the inheritance of the servants of the Lord. righteousness comes from the Lord." No weapon, no weapon.

And their

You want to point your

weapons at me, I have the greatest shield that you could never produce. of violence. And that is the shield of truth in the face

And when we were tossed on the ground, and when

I believe it was from Laska or maybe Private Laska, who picked me up from my riggers belt, another foot, I believe, and pounded me back down onto the pavement, I can't help but recollect now that Russians and Neo-Nazis did not treat me with that kind of disdain and bias. As I look back on it

now, the treatment that I had in Moscow was very tame and humanitarian compared to what I see today still being exercised and used to my friends who are protesting the Tar Sands. So, yes, I believe that when we stand in the front of the White House or whether we are on the White House

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sidewalk, or whether we are in the White House, which as I understand being on the stoop is technically being in the White House, I'm not a lawyer, but we cannot get a permit for the White House, being in the White House. and I don't think I will. But I would tell you this: So long as we are not I've never tried

equal, I intend to train and I intend to go back to the White House fence, so long as there is a grievance that can be remedied by loud speech by this President. hope will not be curtailed in any way. Q Lieutenant Choi, you just said that you didn't have a And that speech I

permit? A Q A Yes. For the stoop. You used the term stoop; is that correct?

And I will ask if you had any procedural experience on

how to get one? Q I will show you what's been marked as Government's

Exhibit 36, previously provided to Defense Counsel. MR. FELDMAN: Honor. THE COURT: it to the witness. MS. GEORGE: Thank you. There being no objection, you may show Content to put it into evidence, Your

(Government's Exhibit No. 36 was admitted into evidence.)

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BY MS. GEORGE: Q Lieutenant Choi, I want to show you what's been marked as Do you see yourself in that

Government's Exhibit 36. exhibit? A

I believe I'm right there (indicating). THE COURT: All right. Indicating a person in the

middle there. Okay, thank you. BY MS. GEORGE: Q A Q A Q And you have on a black beret; is that correct? Yes. And are you standing on what you refer to as the stoop? It's the stoop, yes. Okay. And you made a reference a second ago that you

didn't have a permit for the White House, and you thought the stoop was part of the White House; is that correct? A I believe so. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I

understand, a sidewalk, I don't consider anything elevated here. that. It's certainly on the side, but I would not walk on I don't think that that is the sidewalk. And so, when

I read the regulation, I see that we were not on the sidewalk and we were technically on the White House property. not invited, but we were there. Q A Q And you read the regulation, is that what you just said? I read it recently. Did you read it before you went to the White House fence We were

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on November 15th, 2010? A November 15th, 2010, I was familiar by that time with the

procedure, so I did not need to even read anything, either the CFR or the USC or the Holy Bible. I knew that by Two times.

personal experience, two times I was arrested. And I did -THE COURT: Lieutenant? Yes, Your Honor?

THE WITNESS: THE COURT:

I've got to ask you to lower your voice.

You're going kill our poor court reporter because her ears are directly connected to that microphone. down. THE WITNESS: Okay. I just want to make this point Keep your voice

very clear, Your Honor. THE COURT: the court reporter. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes, sir, I will. Okay. But, please, be considerate of

Thank you. I think that when our experience shows

THE WITNESS:

very clearly that Captain Pietrangelo and myself, Lieutenant Choi, were arrested in both March and in April 2010, we were not before a federal court. face a wired plea deal. prison. We did not face you. We did not

We did not face six months in In fact, because we

We did not face a $5,000 fine.

pled not guilty, the D.C. Municipal Court, where I believe

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this court case belongs, although it is here and I'm happy to be here, I think that based on personal experience, no, I would not even say the regulations could tell me that I belong here. I would say that the charges, as they were And any

dropped, would be dropped again in November.

rational human being will realize that if you've done something twice, you have the audacity to do something twice and you don't get punished, there must be a reason why you didn't get punished. And I don't know what that reason was, but a rational human being can deduce that the charges being dropped after a plea of not guilty, unless we pled guilty, it wouldn't be unlawful. So, it is not unlawful to do what we

did and I don't know why I'm here right now. BY MS. GEORGE: Q And you did just admit a moment ago that you're not a

lawyer; is that correct? A Q Well, I wasn't a lawyer then and I'm still not a lawyer. You discussed in your testimony with Mr. Feldman that you

focused on the nonviolence, you and your group members focused on the nonviolence. A Do you remember stating that? And in addition, we

Yes, we focused on the nonviolence.

signed an agreement that we would remain nonviolent. Q And do you also remember admitting that certain people

perceive individuals in uniform as having a propensity for

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violence? A

Do you remember admitting that? If you wore the uniform of this

Yes, I believe so.

country as a combatant, then it is actually your duty to prepare for that violence that is thrust upon you, or you promulgating that violence in a different country if you are considered in a combat zone. So, yes, I believe that if you wear this uniform and you don't have the ability to exact violent force as we called it, federally-funded lethal force, on anybody else, then you have no business wearing the uniform. Unless that

is, you decide to be a chaplain or you join a very specific occupation, military occupational specialties, MOs, that do not require the carrying of a gun. But I do believe that if

you are a soldier in this country as military, and if you raise your right hand and you say that you will defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, you should be willing, if not experienced, you should be at least willing to use violence if need be to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Q Showing the witness what has already been entered into

evidence as Government's Exhibit 23. Lieutenant Choi, do you remember saying that you, I think you said probably blacked out when you fell from the White House fence ledge? A Do you remember saying that?

I remember saying that I do not recall whether I had

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blacked out. situations. Q

But I have blacked out before in combat

So, in this position here where you are in Government's

Exhibit 23, are you conscious there? MR. FELDMAN: law on this. Objection, Judge. There is a lot of

A person who, and I quote Professor Farrow and

Richardson on evidence, which is the greatest home in New York. But I think the Court can take or can be persuaded by An individual is

Professor Farrow and Professor Richardson.

not competent to testify whether he or she blacked out during any large period of time, unless there is some collaboration. THE COURT: Thank you.

Well, the point I guess we're trying to get to, Lieutenant, if you can, did you have the sensation of waking up disoriented after these events occurred? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MS. GEORGE: Q And earlier you testified that you could feel someone's You Yes.

Thank you.

body part on you when you were down on the ground. testified about that earlier.

When Mr. Feldman showed you

the video, he stopped the video at the point where one of the officers had his knee below your right buttocks area? MR. FELDMAN: Objection, I believe the evidence

given by Lieutenant was that his body part was twisted in

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some way.

And you can scour the record for that. He spoke of his left arm. Right.

THE COURT:

MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: lower extremities? THE WITNESS: to clarify that.

I think now we're talking about his

No, see, Your Honor, if I may, I want

When I saw the video, I saw that clearly.

And I believe it was Laska, who I believe was not subpoenaed by you to be here, I believe that is very clear that he was the one exacting the most violence on me. BY MS. GEORGE: Q Yeah, either one. So, it was Officer Laska putting his

body parts on your body parts, correct? A Q It seems very clear, yes. And you said that you had some sensations when that was

going on, correct? A Q To be honest, I think -- yes. Okay. Thank you. He is not finished. What it reminded me of was, of that

MR. FELDMAN: THE WITNESS:

particularly, and I think what caused me to remember that is when I was in jail just a week ago, he was bragging about it to a fellow Tar Sands arrestee. And so, it brings back a lot

of, there are certain triggers I think with the combat experience. And forgive me if I'm assuming that you don't

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have the experience, but, okay. So, let me just explain it to you. things make you pissed off. Like, certain

You know, certain things remind And I think that's what

you of when others treated you bad. happened.

When Sergeant Laska, I believe, or Private Laska,

I don't now know, he didn't have a name tag, I believe, in that situation, when he was bragging to Tar Sands activists, saying, do you know Dan Choi? Oh, yeah, I threw him into the I don't know why he would

ground and I think he blacked out.

say that, but the fact that he said that reminded me of how angry I was that I couldn't feel my index finger. tweeted about it. I even

I said I couldn't feel it, but I do have

use of my middle one. And I do think that for Mr. Laska or Officer Laska to not be here right now, is another insult. And I'm sorry

if I'm being rude right now, but because you don't have that experience, I want to explain how much it gets me angry. does get me absolutely angry. And I don't think that my It

yelling here is for drama, I think it comes from my heart. When somebody does that to you, yeah, you hold that for the rest of your life because that's what your country did to you after all the things that you want to do for your country. MR. FELDMAN: This is for the record, this is for Sergeant Laska

the record, and correct me if I'm wrong: is --

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MS. GEORGE: is accommodating -MR. FELDMAN: family leave. unavailable.

Objection, Your Honor, defense counsel

-- would have came in, but he's on

I was informed by Sergeant Tolson that he's I'm trying to be fair here, Judge. Thank you. And another thing that I was saying

THE COURT:

THE WITNESS:

about that is that his family is federally recognized. BY MS. GEORGE: Q Lieutenant Choi, do you see yourself in Government's

Exhibit 12? A Q Yes. And in Government's Exhibit 12, your eyes are opened,

aren't they? A Well, some people joke because I'm Asian, my eyes usually But in that, I believe I do have my

are smaller than others. eyes open. Q

Yeah, some people say the same thing about me. And also, in your direct testimony with Mr. Feldman,

you stated that you were chanting; isn't that correct? A Q A Yes, I was chanting. And you actually led chants on November 15th, 2010? Yes, I think it was almost like calling cadence in a And I was very proud to be

military formation when we run. able to lead some of them.

Others led chants and I wanted

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them to experience that, experience the leadership.

Because

if I was arrested first, or second or if there were other people that were left behind, they should also be able to lead chants. And so, it's not only a military mindset to develop the other people in the case of one's death or one's discharge, it also is just by need that we should also be very proud and we should, we shouldn't say something if we really believe it, in a whispered tone. Even if you have a

quiver in your voice, you should speak up as loud as you can if you really believe that your cause is a righteous one. And so, I told everybody with the full righteousness of the winds behind your back of civil rights and human progress and Jesus and Gandhi and Alice Paul, and all of those people who fought for their dignity, you should yell as loud as possible. You should pierce into the White House windows so that this President cannot ignore gay people, so that he cannot use us as just a clause in a fundraising speech, so that he can say, if you endorse me, then I will endorse your full personhood. fulfilled life. You will marry, you will be able to live a And that's why we were yelling so loudly. I

And I'll do it again, any time, any place, any manner.

believe that that's not only a right to chant, but it's a responsibility to pierce. To pierce.

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And you had a responsibility to respond to chants as

well? A Yes, I believe so. Unless there's an immoral or a

unethical, or especially in the military when we were chanting and there would be a lot of Islamaphobic and misogynistic and sometimes, yes, even homophobic and racist chants that are ordered upon the soldiers, I believe that throughout my entire training at West Point, we were ordered to respond back. In fact, they trained it so hard into our

hearts that the first summer at West Point we are told you have four responses: Yes, sir or Ma'am, no, sir or Ma'am,

sir or Ma'am, I do not understand, and no excuse, sir or Ma'am. And so, I believe that a response is something that is conditioned, yes. But the hard thing is when you see

something and you hear something that's immoral, just like an order, if you are given an order that is immoral, unlawful or unethical, it is not your requirement to follow that order. In fact, it is your moral obligation and duty as an officer, a commissioned officer. who enlist. And this is different from people

An officer's commission requires that not only

will you defend the Constitution and follow the orders above you, but if you get an immoral, unlawful order, it is your duty to do three things: First, you seek clarification. Second, you ask for

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retraction.

And third, you disobey the order because it is And that is your duty. So, for anybody

an unlawful order.

to say that it is your duty to respond or you're compelled to respond or be loud -- if it is immoral, it is actually not your duty to respond, it is your duty to negate. duty to ask for a rescindment or a retraction. your duty to disobey. Q And that's why you disobeyed the park police's order to It is your

And it is

get out of the area, because you thought it was unlawful? A Q A In that case, I believe there is a little bit of nuance. Tell us about the nuance. I believe that, yes, any order that curtails freedom of My study of linguistics compels me to

speech is unlawful.

see that "un" is a negation prefix, and law is, lawful is talking about an adjective of the law, having to do with the law. And I believe that Congress shall make no law abridging I believe that no law means no law. And that's

free speech.

very similar to what you are promulgating here, that unlawful. Unlawful, yes. Because if anybody is trying to

tell me to shut up when my speech happens to be more effective, than you are unconstitutionally violating my rights. So, in this situation as I am not violent, and we've made that very clear, although I have the propensity for violence and perhaps some people think that my words are with

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a force of violence, I was not violent.

And I believed that

for somebody to tell me at that moment any kind of order that contradicts that higher law, they are in violation of the Constitution and they should be here in chains and shackles. They should be the ones who stand trial before this Judge, before this Court, and get wired by attorneys like you and undergo all of the oppression and all of the discrimination, as well as the selective prosecution that we have seen here today. I believe that if you continue to do these things, if the park police continues in this way, it denigrates the honor of the country and the purpose of the flag and the symbols. Not only that, but the purpose of our people, why They spoke up in such a way that a You must

we exist to begin with.

long train of usurpations must not be ignored. speak up loudly.

And if you see something that is

unconstitutional, as I have said very clearly that I would die to defend, protect this Constitution and of my neighbors, if you see that infraction, it is your duty to call it out, to call it out. Now, you want to make me seem like I'm a person who just disobeys. I believe so. And you want to say that my

training in the military of obedience is negated by such boisterousness, perhaps. Q Have you heard me say any of those things that you just

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stated? A

Have you heard me say any of those things? Yes, I have heard very much so. And we can

Yes, I have.

go back into the record and we can talk about your arguments as to why boisterousness applies or doesn't apply. And I've

been insulted by this prosecution in such a way that the Constitution and its violation, not me personally, people have called me fag. People have called me gook. People have

called me many things. But when you say that I don't have a right to free speech, that somehow the police telling me that they need -that I need to stop talking, even though people over at Osama bin Laden's death rally, death march, death parade could stand up on the White House lamppost and throw beach balls and maybe even yell at Obama in such ways as piercingly and as boisterously as we do, what's the difference? You said

that there's a major difference, and you have not given me an argument as to why my free speech should be curtailed and theirs should be amplified. So, I don't think that -Q A So, when the park police -You're doing it again. I believe, no, I do not, I have

to finish this point.

Because when you ask that question

about the constitutional law on this, that's the reason why we're doing this. An immoral law is no law at all. And

that's why I disobeyed don't ask, don't tell, and that is why

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I'm trying to tell you and sear it into your memory that these unlawful commands are an affront to the Constitution as a whole, on its face. MS. GEORGE: THE WITNESS: Thank you, Lieutenant Choi. You're welcome.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Would you agree, Lieutenant, that if you're in a crowded

movie theater and somebody -- you would have screamed fire, like meaning fire, like the curtain is on fire, that is not protected speech? MS. GEORGE: conclusion. THE COURT: said. THE WITNESS: That is not protected speech. I would No, I think it follows up on what you Objection, calls for a legal

not protect that speech. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Thank you. Are you aware, sir, or have you studied or have you been instructed perhaps by the captain that the concept of speech also involves conduct? A Q Yes. When you said that the police told other police to arrest

you violently, did you infer or relate that to their conduct

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as being speech in terms of the way they acted? understand the question. THE COURT: it. MR. FELDMAN: some of my clients. BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Okay.

If you

I'm sorry, I'm having difficulty with

I wish I were as articulate as

Do you understand the concept that, promulgated by the

Supreme Court of the United States that some protected speech is conduct or the conduct is speech? A Q Yes. At any time that you were advised the third time, the

third warning in any of your protests, that you must leave or be arrested, did any agent of the United States Park Police offer to cut the handcuffs away and give you, or give you an opportunity to do so? A Q On the event in November -No, I'm not talking about November. The other ones are

just really -A Q Okay. I mean, they're relevant. But I'm talking about the On November 15th, after you

instant case, which is November.

were advised the third time that you must leave or be arrested by Officer LaChance, did any agent of the United States Park Office or police offer to cut the handcuffs away

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and/or give you an opportunity to do so? A Q no. A Q No, they never gave me a chance. I'm going to ask that you answer these questions yes or If you don't mind, sir. I understand. Okay. Did any agent tell you that you needed a permit on I know this is hard. You can say

November 15th, yes or no? a few sentences, but -MS. GEORGE:

Objection, Your Honor.

Mr. Feldman is

trying to limit his response. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: Then go on. The question is: At

Let's just see.

any point from your arrival to your departure, did an agent of the United States advise you that your behavior necessitated a permit? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: No. That was not part of the, He didn't say anything

Thank you.

what the Lieutenant read, did he?

about permits did he, that you heard? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: No, I don't think.

Answered yes on no? No.

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q

That's what he answered.

Let me just very briefly, okay.

You said basically, all

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you heard was the word sidewalk? A That was made very clear. I also heard words like And honestly what happens

leaning a sign, but that was it.

is that in those situations, I'm not thinking about -- to tell you the truth, in this court case, I've sort of been in and out of consciousness because of the legal terms that are going on. I can memorize, you know, I can memorize a lot of

things in Arabic and in English and inspirational quotes, but I don't know, I don't know why I would have to memorize something like that. And, I mean, it's like when you're on And

radio traffic, they come in every once in a while. there's like some static that goes on. Q A

You mean those old fashion radios you use to listen to? Yes. It's like you want to try and focus on the message, And

you know, everything from the call sign to over or out.

when there's some background noise that's going on, you try hard to kind of like ignore that. Q I'm informed by my staff that you must answer the I'll repeat the question.

question yes or no. A Q

I forgot already. Did every -- oh, all right. Let me give you the next

question. Did any agent tell you that you needed a permit, yes or no? A No.

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Did any agent ever tell you that you had to leave because

you were blocking someone's view, yes or no? A Q No. Did any agent ever tell you that you had to move because

there was a legal requirement mandating that you move, yes or no? A Q Say that again, a legal requirement? Yes, mandating that you move? I'll really withdraw that question. that one. Prior to your arrest, this is my last question, I promise. MS. GEORGE: MR. FELDMAN: BY MR. FELDMAN: Q Prior to your arrest on November 15th, were you ever On November 15th? Yes. It's all November. Don't answer

advised by any agent of what regulation, rule, statute or ordinance you were violating? A No. MR. FELDMAN: THE COURT: stand down. (Witness excused.) THE COURT: hearing at 9:30. Tomorrow's schedule shows a detention No further questions. You may

Thank you so much, Lieutenant.

I have no idea whether it will go forth,

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But we should be here at 9:30 as we were right after lunch, and then we'll see if we can finish up. MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, Mr. Myers asked me to ask

the Court if the Court is requiring him to return tomorrow? He was here all day today. THE COURT: would get to him. morning? I'm sorry, I apologize. I thought we

But are you going to get to Myers tomorrow

Is he your first witness? MR. FELDMAN: I was planning on calling Mr. Hodge,

who has been here for two days, or three days. THE COURT: this with Mr. Myers: MR. FELDMAN: All right. How about -- well, can we do

Could we ask him to be here at 10:30? I think I should finish with Mr. Hodge

by 10:30, yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Mr. Myers, would

you put Mr. Myers on if he's here at 10:30? MR. FELDMAN: Guaranteed. If you let me break

Hodge -- if Hodge is not done, I have no problem if you have no problem making me break. THE COURT: That's fine. All right. Please tell

Mr. Myers to be here at 10:30. MS. GEORGE: THE COURT: I will, Your Honor. Thank you.

(Proceedings adjourned at 5:10 P.M.)

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Defendant's Exhibits A B C Government's Exhibits 36 DANIEL CHOI By Mr. Feldman By Ms. George WITNESS (Defendant) JAMES F. PIETRANGELO By Mr. Feldman By Ms. George

C O N T E N T S DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

18 2

26 68

98

oo0oo

EXHIBITS PAGE:

27 59 67

84

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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I, Lisa Walker Griffith, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter.

______________________________________ Lisa Walker Griffith, RPR

__________________ Date