.,,-.

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t

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,--._-'~' .. .._ ......___...__ ... _'-

._

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THELMA
\
\'/ .-.)
{
'

FORD

7/21/97

._.)

1 2 3 4 5 6

UNITED WESTERN

STATES DISTRICT

DISTRICT

COURT

OF LOUISIANA DIVISION

SHREVEPORT

..
NEW FOR
I

BETHANY HOME GIRLS, ET AL

7 VERSUS
8

...... * * * *

CIVIL JUDGE:

ACTION DONALD

NO.

96-2065

* *

WALTER ROY PAYNE

9
10

STATE OF LOUISIANA, ET AL

MAGISTRATE

JUDGE:

11

.~-.j
..... _,/

12

13 14

15 16 17
18

19
t

t.

20

21 22
23

DEPOSITION

OF THELMA FORD July 21, 1997

24

25

Reported by: Kay A. Moore,

CCR

L_
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(3lH) 429-2160

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!THELMA
r:
-,
.I

FORD

7/21/97

1 2 3
4

APPEARANCES: COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS:

MR. JOHN S. HODGE - Davidson, Nix & Jones 509 Market Street, Suite 800 Shreveport, Louisiana 71101 COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS:

6 7
8 9

MR. BILLY REX HARPER, JR. 113 North Myrtle Street Arcadia, Louisiana 71001-3414 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANTS, LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: MR. HENRY M. BERNSTEIN Assistant Attorney General 330 Marshall Street, Suite 777 Shreveport, Louisiana 71101 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT, OFFICE OF THE STATE FIRE MARSHAL:

10 11
r" "-

12 13 14 15 16 17
18

MR. WAYNE R. CROUCH Department of Public Safety P.O. Box 66614 Baton Rouge, Louisiana 708960 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT, DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES: MR. ANTHONY CARUSO Bureau of General Counsel for Department of Social Services P.O. Box 1887 Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70820 Also present: Reverend Mack Ford Brenda Kelley Topper Johnson Denise Fair Vicky Haynes JameS Myers Glen Flesher

19 20 21 22 23
/\

24 25

....

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i-------

THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 3

'-

./

S TIP

U L A T ION

2
3

The deposition counsel to Notice all for defendant,

of Thelma Mr.

Ford,

taken

by pursuant for

4 5 6 7 8
9

Henry

Bernstein,

and Agreement as allowed reported

by and between by the Federal

counsel, Rules of

purposes

civil Court Street,

Procedure, Reporter, Suite

by Kay A. Moore,

Certified

at the offices 300, Shreveport,

of 330 Marshall Louisiana. that all of It being

10 11 12
13

,stipulated formalities, the witness,

by and between with

counsel

the exception

of the swearing

are waived. further stipulated that the reading

It being and and signing

14 15 16 17 18 19
20

of the deposition

is waived

by counsel

by the witness. It being further stipulated form that all

objections, and time

except

as to the

of the question are reserved until

responsiveness of trial.

of the answer,

21
22
23

24
,,-.-

25

I
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1'-

~THELMA

FORD

7/21/97
4

,/

I ~ D E X
;

2 3 4 5 6

Page by Mr. Bernstein

4

I Examinati~n

7
8 9

Exhibit

Description

Page

1
2 3 4

Portion

of intake portion

study of intake transcript study form

151 151 153 154 154 157

10 11 12
/

Additional Request Power

for school

of attorney of New Bethany

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

5
6 7 8 9

Description Testimony Telephone Girls List Boys document

schedule number

158 159 159 160 160

telephone

10 11

Affidavit

(All exhibits

retained

by Counsel)

f\.
'""./

24 25

L _.
BAIN

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SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA
._. __ ._~..-....:.. _ __ .~_:_.

(31B) 429-2160
~ _ !:'"_

~:t3P:'r.'_

THELMA

FORD

7/21/97
5

THELMA having first been duly

FORD was examined and

2
3

sworn,

testified

as follows: EXAMINATION

4 5
6

BY MR.

BERNSTEIN: Q. Mrs. Ford, as you know, lawyers I'm Henry for the bit of ever State,

7
8
9

Bernstein. and first

I'm one off,

I

of the

want

to do a little with you.

preliminary given

discussion

Have

you

10

a deposition A.
Q.

before?

11
f '\
./

No. You've attended the other depositions

12
13

though? A.
Q.

14 15

Yes. So you basically know that that this is kind to me

16 17 18 19
20

of a question be asking answers?

A. Q.

and answer some

session,

I'm going you'll give

you

questions

to which

Yes. One of the things a good that will help and out loud

21 22 23
24
/

you're because

doing

job of it is answering is using answer a tape out loud

the court up, and

reporter so if you

recorder then the the tape of

as a back tape

recorder have
--_
...

picks

it up because picking
---.---

typically and
-----

25

recorders
---_.
BAIN

trouble

up nods

shakes
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REpORTERS

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!
/

_._-_
FORD

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7/21/97

the head A. Q.

and

things

like

that.

2
3 4

Uh-huh. Also, yes like it will help if you clearly say

I something
something confusing
A.

or no. that,

Okay because

or no, or no for uh-huh and huh-uh are

5
6

at times. Okay. And you I'm having may need to speak trouble up a little hearing you bit
1,

7
8

Q. because across vent

I

9 10

a little

the table me.

because And next,

there's

an air

conditioning a question

11 12
13
14

above you

if I ask you or that too long come you

that

don't

understand or is just tell me,

think

has

double

meaning just

or too confusing, back and break it

if you'll

I'll

15 16

up or rephrase have that A.

Q.

it or ask

it another

way.

So can we

agreement Yes. -- that Yes. And about then the last thing I wa~t such to check an if
I

17
18

do that,

you'll

tell

me?

19
20

A. Q. with you

21 22 23 24 25

is there

any reason

as either of me

impairment problem and

or medication would what affect

or any other your ability you and

sort

that

to hear remember and give

understand that

I'm asking

things
-... _--BAIN

have

happened
--.

in the past

me

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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

& SIMPSON

COURT REpORTERS

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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 7

1 2
3

answers? A. Q. No.

...
4 5
6
7

In

other

words, your

you're

not

on or

any your

sort mind

of or

medication anything A. Q. with finding

that like No. Okay. out

clouds

thinking

that?

Good. a little go ahead

First bit and

off, about you

we'll you. give me

start For

off the full

9 10 11 12
/

record, name and A. Arcadia, Q. Mrs.

would an

you

your

address, I'm Thelma

please, Ford at

ma'am. Post Office Box 764,

Louisiana. And where and when were you born,

'\

13 14

Ford? A. Q. A. Q.
A.

15 16 17 18
19 20

November And you

29,

1932.

were

born

where?

In Jonesboro, And Yes. Would is? Through Okay. I am and a pastor's it. the you you grew

Louisiana. up in the Jonesboro area?

Q. education A.
I
I

briefly

tell

me

what

your

21 22 23 24 25 [
I
II

eleventh

grade.

Q. A. mo_ther,

wife,

a housewife,

that's

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-THELMA FORD 7/21/97

.....

~ ~

Q.

My next and

question

was whether you

you've

ever

2 3
4 5 6

worked, formally A.
Q.

I gather

from what

answered,

not

in a job setting? I do not have Okay. What a job. I have a calling. your calling?

do you

consider

A. people.
Q.

My calling

is to minister

to young

7
8

And

just

for clarity's a secular

sake, job?

you've

not

9
10 11

held

what A.
Q.

I would Correct. And

call

also

just that

a little you're wife

bit

more

about you

12
I' -.

you. said Ford.

I understand you were

married -- married

because

13 14 15
16

a pastor's your first

to Reverend

Is this A.
Q.

marriage?

Yes. When and where were you and Reverend Ford

17
18

married? A. Q. A.
Q.

In Jonesboro, Was
No.

Louisiana

1n 1949. point?

19
20

he a minister

at that

21
22

What

was he doing

in 1949? here in

A. Shreveport.
Q.

Working

at B. F. Goodrich

23 24 25
I

And

where

did you and Mr.

Ford,

at that

time,

set up housekeeping?
---SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA

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II
,
I

A.
Q.

Here How You

in Shreveport. long did you-all me five What live years in Shreveport or ten years.

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

roughly? A.
Q.

can tell
' 63 .

'49 to That's

is that? That's that all

I

good And

for me. during

need.

'49 to'63.

time,

you

were

housewife
A. Q.

and mother? Correct. And during No. And did he work at B. F. Goodrich that he worked that secular jobs? He .w a s not a

10 11
/,

minister A.
Q.

time?

.....

-;

12 13 14 15

entire

time? A.
Q.

Yes. And then what him happened in 1963? We surrendered

16 17
18

A. then

God called

to preach. field. left

to go into Q. And

the mission then you all

Shreveport

at that

19
20 21 22 23

point?
A. Q.

(Nods head And where

affirmatively) did you-all go?

A.
Q.

To Australia. And that was where he was called as a

24
\

missionary? A. Yes.

25

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BAIN

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!THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 10

Q. A. Q. happened? A. New Bethany Q. they are

And Seven And

how

long

were

you

in

Australia?

2 3

years. then after the seven years, what

4
5

When Home My

we

returned, Girls. with

we

started

the

work

at

For

7
8 9 10
11

experience with in who --

missionaries

is

that

affiliated We're That's was

a religious

de~omination.

A.
Q. denomination A.

they

are

missions

for.

What

12 13
14

Independent And New so on

Baptist. your return For from Girls? Australia, you

Q.
opened the

Bethany

Home

15 16 17
18

A.
Q. returned in

Correct. At from the time that was you the and New Reverend Bethany Ford Church

Australia,

existence? A. Q. No. So in other You words, all he was not called to

19 20 21
22 23

pastor

a church? A. Q. Correct. And Home

started

a church?

where

did

you

all

start

the

New

24 25

Bethany

For

Girls? 9 South, Arcadia, Louisiana.

A.

Highway

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_THELMA
/"
,

FORD

7/21/97 11

Q.

How would Girls?

you describe

the New

Bethany teenagers when

Home

For

Is it a home or school, New

for troubled

3
4 5
6
7

or wayward you're explain

A. Q. A. Q.

children

or generically, how

trying

to explain

Bethany,

do you

it to people? For troubled Do you call Home. In other words, you would describe it as youth, teenagers. home, school?

it a center,

8 9

10 11

like

a home
A. Q.

for troubled Correct. When you would

youths,

teenagers?

"

12
,

started have

the New

Bethany

Home

For

13

Girls
A.

which
,70.

been

in about

19707

14

Correct. Bethany youths Home that For Girls you've the

IS
16 17
18

Q. only home

Is the New for troubled with? Yes. And that

been

associated
A.

19 20 21 22 23 24
/

Q. Highway A.
Q.

would

be the one

located

on

9 in Arcadia? Correct. When did you the New have Bethany Home For Girls was in

started, terms still

L..

any role

in the home point

itself were you

of doing

anything,

or at that

"
25 a housewife and mother?
_

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(3IR) 429-2160

THELMA FORD 7/21/97 12

.,.'"''
1

A. with the Q. iinvolved

A.

I was children. So in in

-- both

of

us

lived

2n

the

dorm

2
3

other

words,

you

were

actively

4
5

the Yes. This

Horne itself?

Q. husband calling? A. Q. Girls was A. Q. A. Q.

was was

not not

something just your as for New

that

your

7
8 9

-- this It was Yes. Do ever Yes. Do you you

husband's

your And

calling that if was the

well? eight Bethany years. Horne For

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19

know

incorporated?

remember don't.

when

that

was?

I sure And you

participated you?

in

the

incorporation, A. Q. corporation? A. Yes. Were

didn't

you

an

officer

or

director

of

that

20 21 22 23 24 25
L-

I was

the

assistant. start-up besides in creating you of the New husband

Q.
Bethany who Home else For A.

In

the

initial Girls,

Horne For was

and

your

involved

the

New

Bethany

Girls? Let's see. We

.

had

a mothering

church.

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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97
13

r-.
1

Q.
A.

A mothering Uh-huh. And West which Main

church?

2 3 4
5

Q.
A. ITexas.
, Q.

church Baptist

was

that? in Henderson,

Church

6
7

West

Main?'"

A.

Uh-huh. And Could West you you Main said they were that Church a mothering relationship and New Bethany

8 9

Q.
church. between Home For A. Q. ministry? A.

describe Baptist

10
11

Girls? They But were that just was the -no,

I

12
13

can't. for

No. your

the

mother

church

14 15
16

Uh-huh, At of fair? Yes. And who that

yeah. point, Main you in essence Church. were a

Q.
ministry that be A. Q. West Main A.

17 18 19
20

the

West

Baptist

Would

at

that

time

was

the

pastor

of

21 22
23

Baptist Charles Anyone of

I

Church? Kimbell. else New involved Home in the start-up or

Q.
creation A.

24 25

the

Bethany remember.

For

Girls?

can't

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-'-'1 I

FORD

7/21/97

1 2
3

Q.
anybody creation Girls,

I want else or that

to was

check

out,

see In

if

there's of Home the For

involved. of the New

terms

start-up a Reverend No. Do you

Bethany

4 5 6
7 8

was A. Q.
A.

Lester

Roloff

involved?

know

who

Reverend

Roloff

is?

Yes. Are Roloff youths? Yes.

A

Q. Reverend troubled
A.

you had

familiar in Corpus you

with

the

ministries with he had regard that?

that to

9 10 11 12
/

Christi that

Are

aware

Q. Christi?
A.

home

for

troubled

youth

in

Corpus

"
13 14 15 16 17
18

Yes. Did you on and your of husband hope Roloff? to model

Q. your

ministry A. Q. No.

that

Reverend

What

differences Roloff's? difference

did

you

see

between

19 20 21 22 23 24 25

yours

and A.

Reverend The only

I would

know

of

is

the

food.

Q.
A. Q. teachings,

And They But you

what were with

difference vegetarians. regard that to

is

that?

Biblical Bethany

precepts would

or follow

believe

New

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THELMA

- . ---FORD 7/21/97
...

15

1
2 3 4

the

same

basic

Biblical

teachings

as Reverend

'Roloff's? MR. the question. could HODGE: Object to the form of

We haven't ask her

established her

a foundation. familiarity it. If

is,

5
6 7 8 9

If you with she's can

to describe

that not

program familiar, it.

and -get her she can

to identify

say that;

if she

she

describe

MR. Q. the basic Troubled A. Q. participate just way New in the with (By Mr. precepts Youth No.

BERNSTEIN: Bernstein) of Reverend

Sure. Are you familiar Home with for

10
11 12

Roloff's

or Ministry?

13 14 15 16
17

At any time, in -- and formation

did Reverend

Roloff time, not

I'm talking stages

at any

-- participate

in any

regard Home No.

to leading For Girls?

or helping

or assisting

18
19 20 21 22 23

Bethany A.
Q.

How about Have you ever

Reverend heard

W. N. Otwell of him?

from

Texas?
A.

Yes. Do you Yes . Has he, at any time,

-

Q.
A.

know

who

he is?

./-

24

25

Q.

been

involved

with

L.
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THELMA FORD 7/21/97
16

---,
I

r
I I

New

Bethany A. Q. A. Q.

Home Yes. And

For

Girls?

2 3 4

what

was

his

role?

Staff. He was on the staff. W. N. And Otwell Girls? could was you on give

5 6 7
8 9 10
11

me

roughly of A.

when New

Reverend Home

the

staff

Bethany

For

No. Do of you this know type, if your that than husband is a home has for ever had

Q.
a ministry youths, A. Q. A. Louisiana.

troubled

anywhere Yes. And

other

Arcadia,

Louisiana?

12 13

where

was

that? Alabama, here in

14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22

South

Carolina,

Q.
there? A. Q. A. Q. New Bethany? A. Q. A.
._- -_.
RAIN

And

where

in

South

Carolina

was

the

home

Walterboro, When
I

South that tell have home you been

Carolina. started? the date, you the all year. started

was

cannot it

Would

after

23
r>. . 24

Oh,

yes.

In Arcadia? Yes.

'

25

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THELMA

FORD

Q. A. Q.

And

then

where

in Alabama?

2
3

Opelika. Did you ever go to the home in

4
5
6 7

Walterboro? A.
Q.

Yes. Were you ever Short And No. And in Alabama, or was recall. you said here in Louisiana. a home Do in Opelika, there another was it also your trips there just short visits,
'1 1

or were A.
Q.

on the staff visits. about

there?

8 9

how

in Opelika?

10
11

A. Q. called New A. Q. you know

12 13

Bethany,
I

name?

don't then

14
15 16

And

if your

husband other

has had than

for troubled

youths

any place
A.

Arcadia?

17 18 19
20 21

Longstreet. Longstreet. or girls? Boys. And did Yes. And did you function on the staff? For Were Boys in it go under the New Bethany name? And was Longstreet a home

Q. for boys
A.

Q. A.
Q.

22
23

24
25

I you
1__ .

on the staff

of the New Bethany

Home

) Longstreet?
--BAIN

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FORD

7/21/97
18

A.
Q.

No. So you have the question. you have been on the about your staff 1970, calling -- I'll the only to Bethany

2
3

rephrase place

Since

4
5
6 7 8 9 10

that

fulfilled youths

minister Home

to troubled

has been Louisiana?

the New

For Girls A.
Q.

in Arcadia,

Yes. Have youths Home you ever heard City, of a home Missouri for called the

troubled Rebecca A. Q.
I

in Kansas

For Girls?

11

No. Have you ever heard of the Rebecca Home

12 13
14 15

For

Girls? A.
Q.

In Corpus In Corpus from

Christi. Christi. Do you Home know if at any have

16 17
18
19

point been

any girls transferred A.

Q.

the Rebecca

For Girls

to the New that I recall. have

Bethany

Home

For Girls?

Not But

it could

happened?

20 21 22
23 24

A. Q. which guess you but means

(No verbal I mean,

response) saying you don't of recall

you're have

you don't is:

a memory have

it, so I but

my question

It could saying

happened have

don't you
----,

-- are you recall?

- -

it could

happened,

.~-

25

don't
,-

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SIIREVEPORT,

LOlJISIANA

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7/21/97 19

I
1

A. Q. A. Q. point Christi City, for that up at when

No, Okay.

none In

from

Rebecca

Home.

2 3
4

Corpus

Christi?

Right. NOw, the my understanding Home youths that City, For is Girls moved that in at some

5
6 7 8 9

Rebecca those and

Corpus to Kansas Home when wound

closed, Missouri,

were was

there

a Rebecca And those then girls

Girls home New A. Q.

in was

Kansas closed,

Missouri. of

a number

10 11 12
13

Bethany? Yes. And so That's those the correct. girls were Home transferred For Girls in to

New

Bethany City, A. Q. A.

from

Rebecca

14 15
16

Kansas

Missouri? Excuse Sure. But they with were them. staff no part of just us. used
I

me.

May

clear

that

up?

17
18

We had
one of the know

nothing buildings. a thing Q. over of one

to

do

They was with

19 20 21
22 23

Their about In of them. other

them.

don't

words,

they

just

simply were

took a tenant

the

buildings.

Basically,

yours? A. Q. Yes. Over the years, from 1970 until today,

24
25

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SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVF.PORT, LoUISIANA

(31 S) 429-2160

I THELMA
{

FO-;D-

7/21/97 20

.. -,

1 2

iwhat roles ,, , In iGirls?

I

have other

you

had

at

the

New

Bethany

Home

For me

words, in the

have dorm, that?

you so

been

-- you you

told would

3
4 5
6

that how

you would A. Q.

lived you

I guess, Dorm

describe

mother?

Supervisor. Supervisor. what words, else are Okay. have in the you Besides done of at being New a Bethany?

7 8
9

supervisor, In Do other you of A. the do

you with

charge

the

kitchen? That's the

anything I'm the But of it.

bookkeeping? for. I'm the

10
11

kind

things I'm

looking

bookkeeper. I oversee

answerer --

of

12
13

telephone. all It Bethany No, Who

everything

kitchen,

laundry, Q. the New A. Q. For Girls? A. Q. A. Q. that. over

14 15
16

sounds Home
S1r.

to For No.

~e

like

you're

in

charge

of

Girls?

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

is

in

charge

of

the

New

Bethany

Home

Reverend But you're no

Mack

Ford. everything? decisions. I understand though, bookkeeping, you're

over final

I make Right. just

I understand. trying in the to clarify of

I'm

everything

sense

kitchen,

dormitory,

school?

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SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

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THELMA FORD 7/21/97 21
1

A. Q.

Yes. And you're the bookkeeper, so you keep a

3
4

set of books? A.
Q.

Yes. And those books reflect donations or

6 7
8 9

income

received A.
Q.

by New Bethany? and I have CPA? Frances Robinson. a CPA.

Yes, Who

is your

A.
Q.

Ms. Robinson. And where Jonesboro. Does Frances stay

10

is she?

11 12
13

A.
Q.

Robinson at New

keep

the physical In other

books, words,

or do they the actual A.

Q. A. Q.

Bethany?

14
15 16

ledgers? them. them? understand.

1S:

She keeps She keeps Sorry? I guess

17
18

I don't

my question

The they have

actual in the and

19
20

books,

are they

at Arcadia,

or are that

Jonesboro? accounts revenue?

A. Q.

The physical that show, keep

books track

21 22
23
24

of your

expenses

Ms. Robinson. What are the sources of support with the

-

as

25

bookkeeper,
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..

you're

familiar
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(J 18) 429-2160

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THELMA
(

FORD

7/21/97

----_ ...-, i

-"
1

financial Is that A.
Q.

goings true? Yes.

on of New

Bethany

Home

For Girls.

2
3 4

And what Home

are

the sources

of support

for

5
6

New

Bethany A.
Q.

For Girls? individuals, and donations. that make

Churches, So churches

7
8
9

individuals

donations? A.
Q.

Yes. When you say ~individuals, or are ~ are these these families

10 11

simply

interested that

individuals,

12
13 14
15

of youths A.
Q.

are there? -- didn't you said say understand. "individuals," "individuals," that are and my

Sorry Well,
1S:

question talking

When

you

are you in

16

about

simply

people

interested talking

17
18 19

supporting families A.

your

ministry, that People

or are you

about

of youths Yes.

are at the home that make are

or both?

interested.

20

Q.
A. tuition
Q.

Do families The only

any donations? family would make is

21 22
23 24 25

donations

to school. And what's the tuition?

A.
Q.

$350.

$350

per?

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SlIREVEPORT,

LoUISIA.'\jA

(318) 429-2160

23

A. Q. A.

Child. For Yes. MR. HODGE: Over what period of time the entire child's stay?

2 3 4

5
6
7

are

we

referring A. Q. One

to? year. Bernstein) to. So the Well, tuition that is was

$350

(By Mr. to year? Yes. get

what per

was child

trying per A.

9 10
11

(Off-the-record Mr. Hodge and

discussion the plaintiff)

between

12
/

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 cover? month correct

A.

Per

month. MR. HODGE: if you She would like to

her

response, (By Mr. It's

$350

don't Okay? for

mind.

Q.
A. Q. for

Bernstein) per words, for one month the

one

year. is
$350

In other one year

tuition

per

child?

A.
Q.

(Nods And

head

affirmatively) say tuition, what does that

when

you

A. Q. in terms of

School. And is school New a part of what For you're over Are

.: - '\

24

25

that

Bethany

Home

Girls?

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(31R) 429-2160

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7/21/97 24

"
1

you

over A.
Q.

the school Yes. When you

as well?

2 3
4

say

"school, ~ would school,

you

describe

it for me. public

Is it a private or

or is it a

5
6

school, A.

It's a Christian education. Would you describe

school.

Accelerated

7 8 9 10 11

Christian
Q.

~accelerated

Christian

education~ A. works compete when

for me? It's a pace level program where each child He does not

at his own with

in his own

time. has

, ..-. ".

12
13 14

the classroom. it. Everything child then

He only

assistance

he needs
Q.

is self-explanatory. works one time? on his own, teacher and

So each not a class

15 16 17
18

there's teaching
A. Q.

setting class

with

the whole No. And created,

at one

is this or
1S

a program

that

you

or your you are

19 20 21 22 23 24
.' ">,

husband furnished A.
Q. A.

it a progra~ from someone

that else?

or obtained We obtained And who

it from

someone

else.

is that? Christian Education in

It's Accelerated Texas . WhO is available?

Garland,
Q.

25

You

said

that

each
. J

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LOUISIANA

----_.__. (31~) 429-2160

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THELMA

1
2

child help

works asks

at for

his it. their have

own Who

pace, is

and

then to

if

he

needs

there

assist

the

3
4

children A. monitors. Q. A.

with We

studies? a supervisor. Then we have

5
6

Currently, Currently, And at the That's I'll Let regard Okay. When at New
' 96.

who we

is don't

the

supervisor? a supervisor. are not any

7
8

have there

Q.
children A. Q. supervisor? frame with A. Q. children A. Q. A. Q. have

is

that

because

9 10 11

school? correct. come me to back. go back, Who and

1S

the

last get a time

"

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1

let's

that.

is

the

last Home

time For

that Girls

you

had

Bethany

roughly?

Summer June June of

of
'96 . '96 .

'96?

Fall

of

'96?

And

this so to

is

just when I'm

so
I

that ask

we a

a frame

reference clear as

then when

you about.

question, So in June

we're of

asking in

'96,

who

was

the

supervisor

the

school? A.
_

JoAnn

Madden.

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(31&) 429-2HiO

~THELMA

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------------7/21/97

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1 2 3 4 5 6

Q.

And you Who were Miss Could

indicated

that

there in June

were of '96?

monitors.
A. Q.

the monitors

Chen. you spell And her last April name for me?

A.
Q.

C-H-E-N. Were there

Miss

Russell. two monitors?

_I

more

than

those

7
8 9

A. tutor.
Q. A. Q.

I'm sorry.

I can't

remember.

I have

And who Mr.

is the tutor? Brown. in June of

'96 or

10
11
/ --,

Robert

So roughly

shortly school two and would

12
13 14 15 16

before have

then,

the people

involved JoAnn

in the Madden;

been

the supervisor, Miss Chen was

monitors, then,

and Miss Robert

April

Russell;

the tutor A.
Q.

Brown?

Yes. Did Robert Brown tutor specific subjects

17 18 19
20

or anything? A.
Q.

Anything. Are those four people still associated

21
22
23

with

New A.
Q.

Bethany? Two of them And which JoAnn How are. those? Robert Brown. Russell?

two are Mr.

24 25

A.
Q.

Madden. Miss

about

Chen

and April

L
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SIMPSON COURT REPORITRS SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

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FORD

-I
27

7/21/97

I I
!

Do you

know A. Q. A.

where They're

they

are now?

2
3 4 5

in college. are they in college? Anderson Bible

And where April

Russell

is at Halls Miss know

College

in Hammond, but what

Indiana. I don't sort What school of the for?

Chen's

in college

6
7 8 9

In California,
Q.

where. does the

$350

And

of expenses does that

per

month A. Q.

go for? That's And out that pay

cover?

tuition. tuition, what's paid?

10 11
/
-,

What

does A. Q.

12 13 14

Materials So JoAnn and Robert

and teachers. Madden, Brown Miss Chen, April for their

Russell, services A. Q. New

were

compensated or monitors?

IS
16 17 18 19 20 21

as supervisor, Yes. And that's

tutor,

all reflected

on the books

of

Bethany A.
Q.

Home Yes.

For Girls?

For clarity's now a New Bethany

sake, Home

understand

that

there's Is that
A. Q.

For Boys

in Arcadia.

22 23

correct? Yes. And that there's also a New Bethany

24
25

Church.
----BAlN

Is that
--------

correct?
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THELMA

1 2

A.

Yes. Is there For a separate Girls, of for all like trying for New -or are set is of the books New for Bethany for that the

Q.
New Home Bethany For of

3 4
5
6

Home

Girls the or it

a part records is this

the the set

records Boys

a part the ask me. have

either one

Horne or Did
I

church, that
I

of

books?

-!
7
8 9

--

sounded I'm

a confusing to find out

question is: Do and the and

to you its

I
!

guess set

what of or set for

I

one

books is of there

Bethany of

Church for

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

ministries, church, set of one books A. Q. record

one for

set the

books

books Girls answer of

Boys

Home,

one

the

Horne? that. that

I

cannot set for

don't keep,

know. docs that

The

books Girls

you

expenses A. Q. Yes. Does

the

Home?

it

record

expenses

for

the

Boys

Home? A. Q. church as A. Yes. And well? Yes. All of it is under And just is the church. a separate of the docs it record the expenses of the

Q.
1

I understand. that have

there expenses

24 25

set Girls

of

books Home?

the

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(318) 429-2160

THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 29

A.

No.

Q. account account pay

So in other that would things pay

words, paid

in the out

checking checking would pay an

3 4 5 6 7
8 9

were

of, that

an expense

of the church, and would there

an expense

of the Boys Home,

Home, or are

expense checking
A. Q.

of the Girls accounts Separate So there

separate

for the different checking

homes?

accounts. account for the

is a checking

10
11

Girls

Home? A.
Q. A. Q. A. Q.

Uh-huh. And a checking account for the Boys Home?

12 13 14
15

Uh-huh. And Yes. Yes. Don't I know nothing Okay. a checking Yes. As Mr. shake you Hodge reminded you -account for the church?

16

17
18

A.
Q.

my head? have all your around. marbles, That's the so

19 20 21 22 23 24
25

there's problem. account account account A.

Q.
-BAIN

to rattle

So there's Home, Home,

a separate a separate

checking checking checking

for the Girls for the Boys

and a separate

for the church? Yes. And

--.---

do you

have

anything --_._-_
..

to do with
_._-_.

the
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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97
30

checking Do you

account do all

for

the Boys

Home

or the

church?

2
3 4

the checking

accounts?

A. Q.

Yes. And you reconcile and the bank things like statements this, and

5 6

balance Ms.

the checkbooks do that? Ms. Robinson

or does

Robinson A.
Q.

7
8 9 10

does

that. take that in to her?

In other Yes. And that then you

words,

you

A.
Q.

she takes described that

care

of that

for you.

11 12
13

The

people

to me as being is JoAnn Madden, Brown, also was that

involved Miss the the

in the April just

school, Russell,

Chen, school boys

and Robert or did

14
15

for girls,

they

teach

-- teach

is a bad word.

Let me rephrase

16 17
18

that.
A. Q.

Okay. In other and

No.

words,

were

they

the and

supervisor, the girls?

19
20

monitors,
A.

tutor

for both

the boys

21
22

Q.
A. Q.

Just Just Okay.

the girls the girls,

side? besides Mr. Brown.

23 r>.

24

A. supervisor.
---,------

Besides

Mr.

Brown.

He

is the boys

25

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SIMPSON COlJRT REPORTERS

SUREVEPORT, LOVISIA.\JA

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