THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 91

r-'
_/

and

his wife
A. Q.

were

living

before

1996?

2
3

No,

I don't. know if Reverend Swan at any time

Do you

4
5 6
7

ever

lived
A.

in South I really in South

Carolina? don't -- yeah, His I think wife was he might in

have

been

Carolina. know.

Oklahoma.
Q.

So I don't He was

in South

Carolina

and his

wife

was

9
10

in Oklahoma?
A. Q.

That's And you

where don't head were

they know

came

to us from. they are now?

11 12
13

where

A.
Q.

(Shakes So they

negatively) only in your life for six

14
15
16

months?
A.

Correct.
I

I've know.

heard

of them

over

the

years,

but
Q.

don't

17
18

In what Just From

connection Calls

had

you

heard in, you

of them? know.

A.
Q.

calls. them? from Frank

coming

19
20 21

A. Q. been at New
A. Q.

Uh-huh, Okay.

them. Garcia. How long had he

22
23 24

Bethany? Six years. And where had he been before he came to

25

New

Bethany?

L
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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 92

1--"
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
.'_ -,

A. Q. Roloff's A. Q. what church A. Q. ordained? A.

He Had

came he

from been in

Corpus involved Corpus so.

Christi, with any

Texas. of or Lester homes?

ministries, Yes
I

Christi, I'm not Swan.

I think back to

sure. Do you know

Going

Raymond

ordained No. And then

him?

you

said

that

Frank

Garcia

~s

No. He's

He's not

not

ordained. Okay. And is Frank

Q.
Garcia still
A.

ordained. Bethany?

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

with Yes. And Yes. Do you to how

New

Q.
A.

about

Julia

Garcia?

Q. before me back she up. Ms. New

know New

where

Julia Had

Garcia she Did husband

had been Julia when

been -let

came
I

Bethany?

skipped

a question. with her

Garcia, came to
A.

Garcia, Bethany? Yes. And do she

come

he

Q. before? at New

you had

know done

where before

she she

had

been to work

What Bethany? A. No,

came

I do

not

know.

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THELMA F;~D-

----;/-;~

/97 93

-.
1 2
3 4 5 6
I

Q.

And you

think

maybe

Frank

Garcia

had been have

at one been

of Lester

Roloff's

-- or it wouldn't he was but dead.

one

of his because died by then,

Reverend that were

Roloff had

had

one

of the homes of homes that

opened

or part

of the group Roloff and

founded church? A.

by Reverend

they

went

to that

7
8 9

They

went

to the church

that

he founded

in corpus
Q.

Christi. Desni Kwak. How long had she been at New

10 11 12
13

Bethany?
A.

Two years. And do you know to there? She came And No. And do you know to -the Long Beach Baptist she's a what she had done in Long from Long Beach, California. where she had been before

Q. she came A.
Q. A.

14 15 16 17
18

is she Cambodian,

also?

Q. Beach

19 20 21 22 23
,
_.

before A.

she came

She attended and worked

Church

there

in a school,

but

registered Q. A.
Q.

nanny. Do you No, When know where her registration is?

24 25

I don't. I was talking about

..

Reverend

Lester --

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FORD

7/21/97 94

1 2
3 4 5 6

Roloff Home

earlier, For Girls, and A. Q. A. Q. took

I had and

asked said

you

about they

the

Rebecca to New

you

that

moved

Bethany

a building? yes. charged for that building?

Uh-huh, Were No. So Girls was to

they

7
8 9

there New or

any Bethany

payment for

from any

Rebecca or

Home food

For or A.

services

utilities No. So and Yes. Did in No. Did They So the

anything?

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18

Q.
themselves A. Q. for eating A. Q. A. Q. work New in

in other did not

words, eat ate in in

they the the all

kept

to

kitchen? kitchen.

They they

pay

you

or

give

you

anything

the

kitchen?

they had

attend their

the own

school? school. their the children same room did with not the

19 20 21 22
23
24

in other

words, or

same

classroom

Bethany A. Q.

children? Correct. And then Did did how they about make lights, their that water; own from that

sort for

of that,

thing? or

arrangements you all?

25

they

purchase

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THELMA

-- . FORD

_ _--..

7/21/97
95

A.
Q.

New Bethany In other

just

took

care

of that. donated that

words,

New Bethany

3
4

to them? A.
Q.

Yes. And why was it that New Bethany donated

5 6 7
8 9 10

those

things A.

to the Rebecca needed

Home

For Girls? We just

They

a place

to stay.

gave

them Q.

a place How did

to stay. that come about that they needed

a place A. I just

stay?
I

11 12
13 14 15 16

don't they

-- I do not
I

recall know first

any what

of that.

know
Q.

came.

don't your

In other they showed

words,

knowledge

of

that

was A.
Q. A.

up on your

doorstep?

Uh-huh, How many

I

yes. were there? know.

17 18
19 20

just

don't

Q. A. Q. pace

About
I

5 , 10, know.

or 50?
I

don't

don't about

know. school, also, -the

Don't

know. that

Talk

21 22
23

curriculum A. Q. Yes. That

you were

telling

me about

comes

from

some

place

in Texas,

as I

24
25

recall? A.
.

Garland, ------------

Texas.

__

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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

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- -----96

THELMA

FORD

---l
i

Q. getting A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. studies Q. A. Q. something?

Garland, that? Yes. How All Okay. And the much Do

Texas. you buy it

How or

do

you

go

about

i
2
3 4 5 6

does on you

that what give

cost? subjects. me a range?

depends Can

7
8 9

price?

Right. Like pace is for instance, a high school social

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19

$4 and the one. one pace. pace?

something.

For For For

How

about

junior

high

A.
prices. Q. A. Q. school

It

all

varies.

do

not

know

those

Who The But

takes school you was just

care

of

that?

supervisor. that one of those high

recall $4 and went

20 21 22 23
24

subjects A. Q. A. Q. They Do

something? up, yes. for that?

you

write

the

check

Yes. What size check do you write to them?

25
____.~ o b , ~nYWhere _~r_om $2,000 to $4,

ooo~ __.
(318) 429-2160

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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 97

Q.
A.

And what It buys three

does

that

buy

you? is required irt their to have box at

2
3
4

-- each

child

at least all

paces

of each

subject

times,
Q.

if that

means

anything. order for you would be

But a typical

6
7 8 9

$2,000

to $4,000? A.
Q. A.

Yes. How often Just With accept do you have to order?

depends. regard or turn out how regard that think to the away intake, more do you think

10 11 12
13
14

Q. that you

children

-- I'm My

trying question juvenile

to figure is:

to ask

this

question. and you in

with

to the parents to you turn

officers do you

come you

to send

15 16 17
18

children, more? A.
Q. A. Q.

away

or take

Turn Turn

away. away more than take you take in?

19 20 21 22
23

Because

I can't

care idea,

of them. any sense of

Can you give that you

me any accept

the percentage, that you

A.

or the

percentage

reject Say, today. Back

' ---

or the proportions? I get 15 calls a day. I can't take

24
25

15 kids
Q.

when

you were. open

in '95 and
._

'96,

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FORD

7/21/97 98

1 2
3 4 5 6
7

were get?

you getting

-- how many

calls

a day would

you

A.

From And

12

to 15 calls

a day.
a

Q. i

of those children

12 to 15 calls would you wind

day,

how

i many
1

of those A.
Q.

up accepting?

!,
about

One or more Going back,

of them
I

probably. was use asking you

earlier Do you

8 9 10 11 12

medical

records.

a regular of the

physician children?

and dentist

for taking

care

A.
Q.

Yes. What physician do you routinely use for

13 14

the

children?
A. Q.

Dr. James And what Dr. John

May. dentist? -- let's see. What's his name?

15
16
17 18 19

A. Jerry

Johnston.
Q.

And

Dr. May,

as

recall,

is in the

Shreveport A.
Q.

20
21

Shreveport. -- Bossier Dr. Johnston area. And the dentist The

22 23

A. orthodontist
Q.
I I

is in Ruston.

is in Ruston. Do you remember Dr. Grafton.

..

"

""

24

who

the orthodontist

is?

25

A.

I.

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THELMA
['

FORD

7/21/97

--"
1 2 3 4

Q.

And

let's

see. now,

How about but

I

eyeglasses? --

A. Dr. Nelson
Q.

Use Walmart in Bossier. When When Does did you Walmart Walmart

can't

switch came have

from

him

to Walmart? glasses.

5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

A.
Q.

in with someone

their who

examines

them?
A.

Yes. Then health with care regard to the services Dr. May, provided

Q.

by these Dr.

professionals, and

Johnston,

Dr. Grafton, do you all pay

the Walmart service or are

optometrist, they donated? A. Dr. May.

for those

The parents He gives

take

care

of that, takes

except care of

15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
/ '\

us -- he mostly his.

those

himself.
Q.

He offers

So in other write checks

words,

as the check

writer,

you

don't A.

to Dr. May can't

for services? it and cannot

If the parents of it, And then that

afford

take

care
Q.

I have

to take

care

of it. well?

would yes.

include

Dr. Mayas

A.
Q.

Uh-huh,

So in other

words,

if the parents by these then

cannot health you pay

!

make care
~.-

arrangements professionals

for the treatment we've

--,,------

25

talked

about,

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._.--.O_Ol
THELMA FORD
7/21/97 100

1
2 3 4 5 6

for

that A.
Q.

out

of New

Bethany

Funds?

Yes. And
;.

what's what

the source

of those

funds?

A.
Q.

That's With

the churches to the churches, do you do an

regard

organized perhaps witness service,

campaign

at any of those literature and receive that

churches

where or at that

7
8

you distribute at a service or

or go speak an offering will

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

is it simply send

a church

periodically A. the work. the other, support

Q.

you a check? at some it's are time or other, from one presented church us to

We have, sometimes and they month.

hearsay

just

faithful

to send

every

Do you keep support? Oh, yes. So in other Huh-uh. When you

a record

of what

churches

send

you A.
Q.

words,

like you

have

list?

A. Q.
1,000

told

me earlier a list

there

were

or 1,300, A.
Q.

you've Yes. keep

got

of those

churches?

Yes. Do you

a record

of how much

they

contribute A.

as well? Yes.

BAIN

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REpORTERS

SHREVEPORT,LoUISIANA

P 18) 429-2160

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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 101

Q.

Is that Uh-huh. Is that

A

in the book, Uh-huh. a yes?

too?

2
3 4 5 6

A.
Q.

A.

Yes. MR. HODGE: (Lunch

Off

the record.

recess)
I

7
8

Q.

(By Mr. Ford, that

Bernstein)

think

where the

we left

off,

Mrs.

is we were

talking

about

9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

'churches Bethany? A.
Q.
a

contributed

to the support

of New

Right. And
I

think

you had that

told donate

me that

there

is

record

of the churches given. Is that

and what

they've
A. Q.

correct?

Yes. Does New Bethany or its ministries state or federal

receive

any money

from

either

government?
A. Q.

No. And does New funds Bethany from or any other of its agencies?

ministries
A. Q.

receive No. Besides does

any

the churches New that Bethany are not

that receive

contribute any funds

to from

24

New any

Bethany,

'-_

25

organizations
--_._--

churches?

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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97

./

A.
Q.

No. To your knowledge, has there been any

3
4

sort

of appeal

or solicitation Bethany

from

people

that legal

contribute expense

to New

to help

defray

the

5
6 7 8 9

of this

lawsuit? MR. HODGE: Object that to the form of to

the question_ lead

Do not believe of admissible not

it is likely and

to discovery

evidence,

I'll

instruct

the witness
MR.

to answer

the question. of? likely If

10
11

BERNSTEIN: That

On the basis it's is not evidence. my

MR. HODGE: to lead you to a discovery a basis,

12

of admissible I'll

13 14 15 16
17

articulate

reconsider

objection.
MR.

BERNSTEIN: of for

Counsel,

the only to a witness

basis to not

that

I'm aware

instruction

answer

a question If you

is attorney-client me authority for your it. federal that

18 19
20 21 22 23 24

privilege. instruction,

can give

I'll be glad MR. HODGE:

to acknowledge Rule
26

of the

rules

of civil

procedure

in following

provides to to lead Who is

discovery, discovery the

pretrial of

discovery, that

is limited is likely

information

to

discovery this

of admissible lawsuit

evidence. likely

1-----""

25

financing

is not

to lead

to the
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SHREVEPORT, LoVISIANA

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THELMA

FORD

----------7/21/97 103

discovery provide

of admissible a basis, perhaps MR.

evidence. I will

If you reconsider At this

can it. I'm

2
3

BERNSTEIN:

point,

4
5
6
7

not have

g01ng time

to seek

intervention later, HODGE: Bernstein) now?

by the court to.

as we'll

to do that MR.

if we need Okay. How many

Q.

(By Mr. at New Two. One

dormitories

8 9

are

there A.
Q. A. Q.

Bethany

10
11

girls

and one boys? affirmatively) are in the boys dormitory?

(Nods head How many I do not 25? 100?

! "\

12 13
14

beds know.

A. Q.
A.

500? I imagine. Okay.

15
16

70-something, 70-something. That's And a guess.

Q.
A. Q.

17
18

then

on the girls girls that

side.

Any

idea in the

how

19 20 21 22 23
24
I

many girls

beds

for how many

you have

d o rrn ?
A. Q. A. Q. A.

500. And there are 500 beds 1n place?

(Nods head There Uh-huh, are

affirmatively) 500 beds in the building?

25

yes.
I

I
I I I

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FORD

7/21/97

104
1

Q.

In the 27 I think --

years you

that told

New Bethany me that

has

been that

2
3 4 5

in operation, you had

A.

the most

is 200 Yes.

Q.

at one were

time.

And

of that that all

200,

how when

6 7
8 9

many you

of those had
A. Q.

boys,

or was

girls

200? 100 each. 100 each. that built The girls roughly? to guess. dorm that holds
SOD,

10
11
.'

when

was A. Q.
A. Q.

I'd have That's In the Before

12 13 14 15

fine?
,84, 1984
'85.

or 1985, building

where used

did

the girls

stay?

Is there

another

as the girls

16
17 18 19

dormitory?
A.

Where And

the boys

dorm

is. boys dorm was the

Q. girls dorm
A. Q.

so the current '84 and '85?

before Correct.

20
21

Is the current a building New that

boys you

dorm

one

of the when you

--

22 23
24

was

that

all built

first

opened A.

Bethany? was the building Home. that was there when

That

....... ,

25

we opened

the Girls

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I
2 3

FORD

105--

-I
I
I

!
Q. A.

In the early Yes. And what there? It was.a was

'70s?

Q. Girls Home A.
Q.

it before

you

opened

the

4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
.r'.'

closed what

old

folks

home. under

Do you k~ow

name

it had gone

beforehand? A.
Q. A. Q.

(Shakes

head

negatively) how long it had been closed?

Do you know No.

I

do not know and your

that. buy the closed

Did you home? Yes. And New

husband

12 13
14

old

folks
A. Q.

you bought Bethany

it 1n what -Home?

name?

15 16 17
18

A.
Q.

Home

The New Bethany -- For Girls. For Girls. building Correct. What other

A.
Q.

So I know

that

you built dorm?

at

19 20 21

least

one
A. Q.

which

is the new

girls

buildings

have

you-all

built

22
23
I

out

there A.

or had built? We built the gym and a pool and a

24 25

LQ_.
!
BAIN

cafeteria.

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!

FORD

7/21/97 106

r>\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
-:

A. Q. A.
A

And And

a new a new log dorm.

log what? dorm.

dorm

somewhere.

A new A log

Q. girls? A.

Is

the

log

dorm

for

boys

or

Boys. And how many no boys can stay in it?

Q.
A. Q. your for there husband New

I have So if

idea. it right, the when you and

I understand Ford For

Reverend Home

purchased in home the

property '70s,

Bethany

Girls

early

was A. Q. A.

a closed Yes .. Was Yes, Closed either a pool, it

old

folks

there?

like

a nursing home. home or

home?

nursing nursing built

Q.
then, dorm, you've

then. built and

And one

since girls dorm?

had

a gym, A. Q. A. Q.

a cafeteria, building. building? school buildings. a contractor that sort

a log

And And And Two

a school a school another school there or

building. Who built the

girls built

dorm? it A. for

Was you,

that of --

came

in and

24

was know.

)
25
L__ . .

I do
_

not

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-THELMA
/ ..'\

FORD

7/21/97 107

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Q.

Do you

remember with

writing

any checks dorm?

for Paying

expenses

in connection or
I'n

the girls

for materials
~.

A. been a long
Q.

Well,

sure,

but

I don't

know.

It's

time." How about the gym? Do you recall who

built with

it or paying building A.
Q.
I

any of the bills

in connection

the gym? cannot recall anything

How about The pool

the pool? is inside time the girls dorm. was It

A. was built

at the same

the girls

dorm

Ibuilt.
Q.

The pool And

is inside about

the building.

how

the cafeteria? and school is all

A. together.
Q.

Cafeteria

and gym

One of the school One of the school So in other and words,

buildings? buildings. the gym, the were

A.
Q.

cafeteria, built A.
Q.

one of the school

buildings

at the same Do you remember

I

time. when that that time. was?

r>

24 25

A.
Q.

do not you

recall -- was

Could

it '70s,'809,'909? ------------

__
BAIN

._------SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

._-(318) 429-2160

&

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 108

A. Q.

It'd Now,

have the

been second

in the school

'80s,

but

-Do you

building.

3
4 5 6
7

recall

when
A. Q. A. Q.

it was I do not And It's

built? remember when it was built.

how about just

the log dorm? been

'96?

recently

built.

Recently Ninety

as in 1997, '94, who

8 9

A.
Q.

I guess, designed

or

'96.

Do you know

any of these

10 11 12 13
14 15

buildings? A.
Q.

Brother Now, know

F'ord. see. boys The can log dorm stay you said

let's

you

don't A.
Q.

how many head

there?

(Shakes Okay.

negatively) or two-story or

Is it one-story

16 17
18 19 20 21

three-story? A. Two. Now, the gym. Is it a standard court inside? is it

,
big

Q.

enough A.
Q.

for a basketball Oh, yes.

SO

it's

tall?

22
23
/_ ... <,

A.
Q.

It's Does rooms No.

tall. it have any offices or bedrooms -or

24

any

locker A.

or anything

In it or

25

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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

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THELMA

FORD

7/21/97 109

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Q.

1S

it just Gym,

a gym? and cafeteria

A. kitchen,
Q.

No.

school,

is in the All
I

same

building. And is that building

one building.
k no w ,

the gym, A.
Q.

is going

to be tall?

Uh-huh. Is the rest and of the building is that where the or

8 9 10 11 12
13

cafeteria two-stories A.

the school,

one-story

or three-stores? Kitchen is the second first floor. on the floor, and up above

it is the school,
Q.

Is the cafeteria Ground floor.

A.
Q.

14 15 16

So the ground is the

floor

is the cafeteria. a third it's floor? a

Second

floor A.

school. a third

Is there floor, but

There's you know.

just

17 18 19 20
21

storage,
Q.

Do you have

any

idea

how many time?

people

can

be seated A.
Q.

in the cafeteria (No verbal Let me come had 200

at one

response) at it this way: The year had

22 23
24

that the

you new

students, with

200 children and

there,

building

the cafeteria

gym been

built

at that A.

point?

25

Oh, yes.

BAIN & SIMPSON COURT REPOR'ffiRS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
.. _---

(318) 429-2 I 60

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THELMA
(

FORD

7/21/97 110

Q.

Could

all 200

students

eat

at the

same

2
3

time? A. ate They did not hours. and boys eat at separate hours? eat at the same time. They

4
5 6

at separate Q. A.
Q. A. Q.

Girls Yes. Could Oh, Seat with And

7
8 9

all

the girls 100.

eat

at one seat left

time?

yes,

It will some left room

100. over?

100 with some then room

10 11 12 13
14 15 16

A.
Q.

over. dorm. How many floors

the girls

does

it have?

Is it one-story,

two-story,

three-story? A.
Q.

Four. Four-stories. pretty after The The -No.

Are

the four

floors

of the

girls one

dorm

much

the same?

In other

words,

17
18

floor
A. Q.

the other? same. layout on the fourth floor is the

19 20 21 22 23
24 25
I

same

as A.

It's

just floor

one

long

room,

all open open

dorms, dorms.

and

the third

is the same

way,

Q.

And It's

how about rooms.

the second

floor?

A.

L__.
BArN

.
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SrMPSON COURT REPORTERS SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA

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(31 K) 429-2160 ._-

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FORD

7/21/97 111

_.-. l i

Q. floor? A. Q. first Ten? get to floor Let

It's

rooms.

And

how

about

the

first

2
3 4 5 6 7 8

It's It's

rooms. rooms. So We're Do how many rooms about how on the

roughl~? ask on YOu:

talking you know

five? girls

me

many

live A.

the

first never

floor? have -no,

I

I really because Who

I

cannot

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20

answer

that Q. A. Q.

I don't in charge

really of room

know. assignments?

is

am. you recall how many girls that you had

Do to

assigned A. Q. would be A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. because A. Q.

the No. You

first You could

floor? not me exact an number really. That

know, give me. to many

estimate.

okay 25 And

with girls how

a hall. halls on the first floor?

Four. Four I use Oh, you had Right. Okay. And 25 girls to the hall? halls four use on the first one?

21 22 23 24 25

halls. four halls. That's right

you

four

monitors?

I
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& SIMPSON

COURT REPORTERS

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THELMA
.. ----.....\

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7/21/97 112

A.
Q.

Uh-huh. Now, First

A

2
3 4 5 6
7

what and

floors second.

are

the halls

on?

A. Q. do girls A. Q. A.
Q.

First stay No.

and second. third and

Okay. fourth

At any

point,

on the -.

floors?

So they're Unused. But Yes. And are they they

unused?

8 9

have

beds

in them?

10 11
f "

A.
Q.

the bathroom on one floor,

facilities or how

on each set

12

floor up?

or are

is that

13
14 15 16 17
18

A. the open

Every dorms

room

has

their

own bathroom,

but

have

bathrooms

on each

end of the

building.
Q.

So there floor,

are bathrooms etcetera?

on the

fourth

floor,

third
A. Q.

19
20

Yes. So I gather floor That there must be two halls floor? on

21 22 23 24

the

first A.
Q.

and two on the second we use, some yes. space don't Yes. on the use?

Is there floor Yes. --_._-----

first

floor

and

second
A.

that you

25

..

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& SIMPSON

COURT REPORTERS

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THELMA
/\

FORD

7/21/97 113

Q. 1996. 19967

So

basically, how the many year

it's girls we're

--

let's you

talk have about

about in

2
3 4

Roughly, Is that A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.

did

talking

Uh-huh. -- that Oh, In 100. 1996? you had

200?

5
6

ioo

girls

and

a 100 boys.

7
8
9

Correct. And so you'd on head have have the 50 girls floor on the first

10 11
/
\.

floor

and

50 girls (Nods Might other? Yes. Now, is it the

second

roughly?

A.
Q. than the

affirmatively) been two or three more on one

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20

A.
Q. boys dorm,

old

girls

dorm

that's

now

the

one-story?

Two-story?

Three-sto~y? A. Q. style or A. is open Q. boys dorm

A.

Two. Two-story. is it small And rooms? is rooms, and the top floor is it long room dormitory

21 22 23 24 25

Bottom dorms. When was it it

floor

switched

from

a girls

dorm

to

remodeled?

Yes.
-----_

.. _.-

BAIN & SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SIIREVEPORT,

LoUISIANA

(31 X) 429-2160

---

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--

---~-'
---._-7/21/97 114

Q.

So do you know floor

I

now how many dorm?

rooms

are

on

2 3 4 5 6

the

first
A. Q.

of the boys know.

don't

Have

any of the buildings since Ford you

that all,

have since you

been and

built your

at New" Bethany Reverend

husband have

opened buildings

it in the been built

7 8
9

early

'70s,

any of those

by a contractor?
A.

Yes. Which ones were built by a contractor? and the school.

10

Q. A. .That

11 12
(

The gym,

the kitchen,

building.
Q.

13

Do you recall

the name

of the

14
15 16 17 18

contractor? A.
Q.

His Was No. From

last

name

is Jordon. or Texas? Texas. Any been other built buildings by a

he from He's

Louisiana Houston, Texas. have

A.
Q.

from

Houston, that

19 20
21

built

at New Bethany

contractor? A.
Q.

The boys And built? Yes. Okay.

_

school. was the second school building

22
23

that

that

was A.
Q.

24 f)
25

And

it was
_

built

by whom?

i________
BAIN

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SIMPSON COURT REPOR1r.RS

SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

.....

7/21/97 115

A.
Q. the

I cannot Was the

recall. boys school building building or built after

2 3 4 5 6

gym/kitchen A. Q. After. With

school

before?

r~gard nursing

to

when do

you you

and

your

husband who you

I bought

the

7
8
9

IbOU9htA~t
Q.
I

f::::
Do
I

old

home,

remember

Madden. remember how much you-all paid for

you

10

it? A. how much we know Q. don't paid how remember for much it. we We paid did how much right offhand, but

11
12 13

paid for

$150

a month,

I don't

it.
$150

14
15 16

And
I

how

long no

you

pay

a month?

A.
Q. A. Q. A. Q. the how the

have

idea. for now?

Is

it paid

17 18 19
20

Yes. Thank Yes. with regard from paid to the Mr. Texas, the that? been school? a long Do time. you Jordon do that you was goodness, huh?

21
22

contractor much gym, A. Q. you the

I

Houston, to build and idea. the all

recall that has

him

building

23

kitchen, have how no

r\

24

That's boys

25

And

about

i __
BAIN

._. .__
&

--------_.

--

----

. _ _j
(3tH) 429-2160

SIMPSON COURT REpOR1CRS

SIIRF.VEPORT, LoCISIANA

r--THELMA

.... _-._ FORD 7/21/97

-_ .. "1
116

1 2 3 4
5

remember A. Someone Q. there one A. Sorry. Q. there

how

much

that

-how much that was.

I don't else might. you

remember
I

really the or

don't. nursing many home, was

When

bought or two

building One

how

buildings? Yes.

building

and

a farmhouse.

7
8 9

Two

buildings. Have you-all built any Are other there homes any out other

besides out My

the

farmhouse?

10
11

dwellings A. staff

there? home -- my personal home and another

12 13
14

house. Q. Okay. personal

13

And

roughly,

when

did

you-all

build

your A. Q. A. Q.

home? years do ago. that yourself or --

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

or

14

Did Yes. -home.

I

you-all

hire

a contractor? was idea. by it built?

Okay.

And

then

the

staff A. Q. A. Q.

When no

have

Was

it built

a contractor?

No.
The can staff house. sleep? How large is it? How

24 25

many

people A.

it

Three-bedroom.

L__ ..
BAIN

_
&
SIMPSON COURT REPOR1tRS SHREVEPORT, LolJlSIANA

. _ _j
(318) 429-2160

---

---------117

7/21/97

Q.

It's

three

bedrooms? affirmatively) New Bethany have an by

2
3

A.
Q.

(Nods head

In 1996, did policy with

4
5
6 7 8
9

established Iparents A.
Q. A. Q. A.

regard

to visitation

or guardians Yes. And what One year. One year? With

of children?

was

the policy?

10 11

no visitation. was there a set period that a Home?

Q. child would
A. Q.

In 1996,

-: ".

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

be expected One year.

to stay

at New Bethany

So if a parent Bethany,

or juvenile

court

placed would

child not

at New

the parent the child

or guardian for a year?

be allowed A. Q.

to visit

Correct. In 1996, with was there an established policy

at New

Bethany A.
Q.

regard

to discipline?

Yes. And what That was that policy? discipline of

A. paddling.
Q.

we could

use corporal

, ~\

24
2S

Was Yes.

the policy

in writing?

A.

-----BAlN

----_.
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

&

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

(318) 429-2160

-----_.

__

.-

- --- -----

-----------

--.'._'._

._..

THELMA

_--FORD
- .....

--

----------118

-1

7/21/97

I
1 2 3

Q. A.
Q.

And what It's

is that policy

called? agreement. to find regard placement

in the private words,

placement if I wanted

So in other New Bethany

I

4
5 6 7 B

out

what

Homes' look

policy

was with

to discipline, agreement? A. Q. members? A. Q. with regard A.

Q.

would

in the private

Yeah. Is that

And

our power

of attorney to staff

says

it.

policy

furnished

9 10
11

Yes. And how do they learn about the policy

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

to corporal They're With told

punishment? verbally. to when a parent do you wants to them to

regard

place get

a child sort

at New

Bethany,

require

any

of psychological

evaluation

of the

child? A.
Q.

No. When either a child perform evaluation arrives or have at New any sort Bethany, of do

you

all

21 22
23

psychological A.
Q.

performed

for you?

No. So you don't is? that they give me know what the child's

24
25

psychological A.

status Only

by the reports

1_BAIN

&

SIMpSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
...

(318) 429-2160 .

-- -.-

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--

--

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..- ..-- - - --FORD 7/21/97

-- _119

THELMA

-I
I I I I
I

1 2
3 4 5 6

when

they Q.

send And

in

the

placement. you told me and Is taken this morning and

I think and the

about

the

doctors for

dentists children.

orthodontists there to a policy the

optometrists with regard A. Q. the doctor? A. decides Q. that child you to A. Q. go the

I
,

to when

a child

is

doctor?

No.
So how is it decided to take a child to

I
I

7 8
9

That's that or

my

--

I'm Ford.

the

one

that

usually

10 11
-".--.\

Brother do in you terms or how you

And by

have of not? to

any

rules

or when

guidelines to take a

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20

deciding

doctor

I know Because I raised And about how it,

take

care

of

a child.

raised

children?

A. Q.
talking A. Q. proud of A. Q. A. their
L___

children. many let's nine. nine children. I gather you're children? go ahead While and fi~d we're out?

I have You them? I'm And You

have

21 22 23
r -,'. 24

very what really

proud are

of their

them. names? want to know all of

don't

25

names.
_

I
!

_ ------SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

__ J
(31R) 429-2160

BAIN

& SIMPSON

COURT REpOR1~RS

1- - _'--"--j

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_._ .--.-----

120

'-'-1

THELMA

FORD

7/21/97

I
./

I
Q.
Sure. You're going I'll to write let her all write of it that down. down? I'll

2 3 4 5 6

A.
Q.
just

..

Sure.

listen A.

to you. Okay. ~ Gwendolyn,

Do u q , and

I
Janet, Maxine, Is that Sheila, nine? Melanie.

Theila,

Penny,

I I

7
8 9

Q.
A.

Let's Oh, We

see. I must

Eight. have left out one.

Q.
A.

won't

tell.

10
11

Robbie. Robbie. living New No. So in the none home that? now. now? Doug. connection years old. did He's he have? of or them live are on either the in the church or Now, or of your nine with children, New Bethany are

Q.
any of them and A.

12
,"'" "\

associated Homes?

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2S

Church

Bethany

Q.
or work

property

anything A.

like Not Not

Q.
A.

Except And He's

Q.
A. been

what 19

a student

a student. MR. HODGE: on the I think property? your question

was:

Does

he

live

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