Nielsen 1 Josh Nielsen Carrie Sippy ENGL 1102-014 03/25/13 Cast: George Bugliarello is a man of great prestige.

He has served as president of the Polytechnic Institute of NYU and held many other positions on boards and committees in the engineering and educational fields. Paulo Freire was born and raised in brasil and despite getting a slow start on his education became a pioneer in that field. Paulo is perhaps most passionate about education being a method of shaping students rather than filling them with information. Daniel Howe is another author and historian whose hard work earned him the Pulitzer Prize for History. He has written on a number of topics including classical education. Born in Liverpool, England Sir Kenneth Robinson is one of his countries most renowned speakers and proponent of arts and education. Scott Armstrong is perhaps most well known for his forecasting abilities though he is also a college professor of marketing and an author. His time spent teaching at University has given him valuable insights into the topic of education and preparedness. Josh Nielsen is a university student at UNCC, who is inquiring into the subject of education. In particular he is looking at classical education and the balance between liberal arts and vocational studies. Setting: .. We had all finally gathered. There were six of us all told that afternoon. We were a rather diverse group with expertise in a number of different fields. Yet we were all united in our concern for education and with modern education. This is what brought us together. Our purpose was to discuss some of the shortcomings that we saw and address those issues. We all have different opinions and in fact some of our writings have been in contrary to the writings of others within our group. The following is the content, in entirety, of our discussion. For now I will forgo any further introduction, it should be pretty easy to catch on. Quick we are already missing out.... George Never has there been a generation so depleted of the ability to think logically and carry on a conversation on a topic of any meaning. Everybody has such strong beliefs, or thinks they do, but it is rare to find a person who can defend their point of view let alone convince others of it.

Nielsen 2 Josh I find this lack most frustrating. Even more frustrating is the fact that our system of education is not trying to increase the student's ability to defend their point of view. Rather they promote having an opinion at all with no regard for whether it makes sense at all or even whether it might be harmful. Daniel I would attribute this to a general lack of purpose and passion for anything that has to do with learning or thinking. So few people care anymore to actually spend time studying or developing themselves mentally. Ken I must agree and yet I would put more of the blame on us as educators. We take in such brilliant children when they are just five or six and over the next twelve to twenty years we strip them of any sense of creativity or genius they had within them. It is such a crime yet we continue to submit wave after wave of students to this regime. Freire This is exactly what opens the gate to, and encourages dictators and oppressive regimes. When you have a population that has been so numbed, so used to being fed everything they know, what is to prevent despotism? As a result we are seeing more and more problems of this nature. Only when a regime goes so far do the people revolt and by then it is too late. As long as we continue in the manner we will be stuck in an endless cycle of revolt and oppression. Only when you have a population that is conscious of the world around them and and able to view it through a critical lens will the cycle be stopped. Scott It seems we all agree on two things at the least: education is of primary importance, and our current mode cannot propel us forward but rather is setting us on a downward course. To go about solving these issues I think we must first consider what the purpose of education really is. Ken If I may take a swing, I believe that education is our way of preparing the next generation for the future. We have no clue really what will be happening even ten years from know let alone fifty or a hundred. This means that we cannot prepare them for specific events. Instead we have to give them general skills that will allow them to use their heads and think their way through any situation that comes up. Freire This is very similar to what I meant when I was referring to consciousness. In fact I would take it a step further. In my book

Nielsen 3 Pedagogy of the Oppressed I refer to education as giving people a sense of consciousness as consciousness of consciousness (77). It is admittedly a rather difficult phrase to grasp. Yet my meaning is simply a knowledge or awareness that constantly reminds us to be aware and alert. In this sense consciousness is the first step in thinking through a situation as you put it Ken. Daniel If I may interject I think this is exactly what classical education was defined to do. You speak of the ability to think their way through any situation. In my opinion this requires an enormous sense of mental and sometimes physical and spiritual discipline. Classical education was designed not simply to pass on facts but to help students to be able to receive information, process it to determine its importance and relevance, and then store or discard it. The middle step, the processing of information, is what is missing in nearly all of today's systems of education. Scott So what is the answer? How can we provide more people with this sense of consciousness and the ability to think through a situation? Daniel you have presented classical education as a possible solution but is it plausible? George We need more relevance in education. Students go through twelve years of school before college and four to eight or ten more depending on how far they go. What is the result of all this study? For the average student the results are not extremely satisfying. Many have slept their way through their education because they were not taught things that were useful to them. Because of this they are not any better prepared to face the world than when they first started. Scott Is it possible that it is not the usefulness of the information but rather the way that we cater to the students every need and act like it is our fault if they don't do well? I think we need more structure, especially prior to college. Daniel Again this is where the classical model is better suited than more contemporary systems. While learning Greek, studying the works of Plato, Aristotle, and other great thinkers may not help you operate an iPhone or computer directly they will develop the mind and allow you to use such devices to a far greater purpose. Selfdiscipline has been so neglected in modern education. If you teach a student how to use logic and reasoning you prepare him in a far more powerful way then if you just teach the results of another person's reasoning. By doing this you undermine their capabilities, which makes it easier for them to lose interest.

Nielsen 4 Josh Is the classical style the only way to achieve this sense of selfdiscipline and ability to think? I would propose that there could be a mix. We should take the purpose from the classical model, that is to build up the whole self, and apply that purpose to more modern subjects. Subjects such as engineering, and technology which did not exist when classical education was started. Scott Those are good points. It is true that we need more challenge and higher expectations. Yet as you alluded to if we are going to expect them to think and challenge them to go further we need to give them the proper tools and teach them a curriculum that will be relevant to them. George Traditionally the classical method teaches the trivium which includes grammar, logic, and rhetoric, in that order. I do not disagree that these are essential and foundation for success rather I think it is the topics to which the reasoning is applied which need to be updated, as Josh mentioned. For example when teaching art is it necessary to use artwork from hundreds of years ago or would it be of more use to offer courses in graphic design and computer art? Likewise when teaching math it is important to explain the concepts behind the subject but is it not also important to teach students how to use a calculator, computer software, and other modern aids? Ken It seems to me that we could go back and forth all day on this issue. I think we need to be careful that we are well balanced, that our teaching is both creating discipline and preparing students to live in a modern world. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel, we can stand upon the shoulders of those who have gone before. However we need to understand how the wheel was made to be able to put it to the best use. In the same manner we must exercise our legs and build up our sense of balance to be able to stand on someone's shoulders. Josh Gentlemen this discussion has been most enlightening but before we close I think we must sum up the points we have discussed. Scott I think we have agreed we need to put higher expectations on the students to take responsibility for their own education. However this needs to start from the very beginning and they need to be given the proper tools to do so. Ken This means that teachers and educators need to be focused primarily on building up the reasoning skills rather than teaching

Nielsen 5 facts. George The foundational skills of logic and reasoning must be applied to a relevant topic. We need to be using education to move the world forward. Scott Although it seems we have barely scratched the surface I think we have shed some light on what we can do to better prepare the nest generation and how to balance between extremes on some of these issues. Freire There is definitely no easy solution. Teaching people how to think is a daunting task and one that requires a great amount of thought itself. Josh In all it seems to me that it is necessary to market the idea that education is about more than just finding a job. Students, parents, and teachers alike need to have a more broad outlook. Teachers especially need this and they need the freedom in the classroom to be able to really delve into issues without fear of losing their jobs.

Academic Conversation draft 2 It is impossible to say that education is not an important thing. Many studies have been done to prove the correlation between education and having better jobs, less oppression, and a greater sense of well being among other things. My purpose in writing and inquiring is not to list these studies or argue for the importance of education. Rather my goal is to look at the purpose of education itself and to determine whether the classical style of education does a better job of equipping students. To do this I have brought in a number of sources, people who have done research or inquiries into the field of classical education. This part of my inquiry is a way of discussing ideas that have already been presented. Furthermore it will answer some preliminary questions and open up new questions to be asked as I continue in my inquiry. Several years ago Sir Kenneth Robinson made a presentation at a conference on

Nielsen 6 education. He argued that the purpose of education is to prepare students for the future. He also claimed that our systems of education are stripping children of their innate sense of creativity and artistry. This does not constitute a preparation for the future. In fact it is quite the opposite. By removing and discouraging creativity schools are limiting the way children use their brains. After all it is creativity and the ability to think and reason that guides you through a situation which you have never been through before. Paulo Freire in his book entitled Pedagogy of the Oppressed, also addresses the shortcomings of modern educational systems. He talks about how these systems are based on what he calls the banking model of education. This is simply the idea that students are clean slates or empty bank accounts which need to be filled with information. Like Robinson, Freire objects to this by by saying that this depositing of information does the student no good. In fact, he argues it leaves them in a stupor, unable to think and counter the schemes of oppressive regimes (84). Freire claims The solution is not (nor can it be) found in the banking concept (73). Instead he suggests that we turn to, what he calls, a problem-posing method. This means that teachers must focus on teaching the students how to be conscious of the information they receive. Rather than just committing it to memory students must discuss it pulling out the flaws and emphasizing the beneficial natures (80). In this way students become engaged in the material, interested in what they are learning, and less susceptible to oppression. It is in Daniel Walker's writing that we begin to turn to classical education. Walker sets the stage by giving us a brief history of classical education in the U.S. He emphasizes that in recent history the classics have been so neglected in educational fields. Latin and ancient Greek cant compete with vocational disciplines such as engineering, business, and medicine (31). Because of this many programs have been shut-down or severely reduced in size and

Nielsen 7 functionality. In an age ruled by technology is there any use in learning the classics? George Bugliarello delves into this issue by going directly to the trivuim and quadrivium, which are central to the classical curriculum. He claims that these are outdated and that there is little need for them. While he doesn't disregard the study of logic and rhetoric directly he does claim that there needs to be more room for studies in modern fields. He fears that the classical method will fail to propel the next generation forward in technological and scientific advances. While I think that there may be a need to include more studies in science and technology I also believe that many of the failures of the current systems have to do with a lack of the use of logic and reasoning. As both Robinson and Friere contended, the students need to interact with the material that is presented to them. If we treat them as if they know nothing then when we are neglecting so much. Children even at a young age can be brilliant. Mozart was only six years old when he began playing publicly in the courts of the European royalty. Einstein said that two of the most important events of his life happened when he was just five and twelve. There are so many more examples of people who changed the course of history at such young ages. All this is to say that children are not completely ignorant they simply need to be directed in how to better put their mental faculties to use. They need tools to guide them through their lives. Tools such as logic, rhetoric, and reasoning. Beyond this they need to be challenged and to be taught the importance of what they are learning. Scott Armstrong argues that students need to take more responsibility for their own education. Teachers have some amount of responsibility but ultimately for a student to succeed they need to want to succeed. Armstrong also believes that we need to present material that challenges the way that students think rather than just presenting views that they are already

Nielsen 8 familiar with (3). If only the common methods are taught students will have a hard time thinking outside the box and coming up with solutions to new problems. Although each person has different views on smaller issues it seems that all agree that education must be about more than just memorizing facts and passing tests. There must be some amount of learning how to learn. The differences in opinion come when the the discussion turns to possible solutions. My research and inquiry into this topic has led me to think that there is no one magical method that can be used in education. Rather the teacher needs to be attentive to the students and adapt existing methods to fit their specific class. As far as curriculum goes I think a balance is also important. While I would lean towards a classical style of education as much as possible, there are times when that simply isn't practical. For instance in developing countries students would not be able to read much of the classical literature simply because they have little or no reading skills to begin with. When a student has a family at home that is wondering where their next meal will come from they are not likely to be excited about Euclid's theories or the works of Mozart. So there are times when vocational skills need to be emphasized. However even in such cases I believe that vocations can still be taught using a method that does not completely strip the student of their creative abilities. One only needs to change the content and approach even slightly, to create an environment that hones the thinking, and creative skills that everyone has to some degree. This is, as with most things, easier said than done. It takes time and effort and a desire for the success of the students, but the saying holds true; where there is a will, there is a way.

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Works Cited

Armstrong, Scott J. "Natural Learning in Higher Education." Penn Libraries (2013): 1-10. 13 Apr. 2011. Web. Bugliarello, G. "A New Trivium And Quadrivium." Bulletin Of Science Technology And Society 23.(2003): 106-113. British Library Document Supply Centre Inside Serials & Conference Proceedings. Web. 13 Mar. 2013. Freire, Paulo. Chapter 2. Pedagogy Of The Oppressed. New York: Continuum Books, 1993. Print. Howe, Daniel Walker. "Classical Education In America." Wilson Quarterly 35.2 (2011): 31-36. MasterFILE Complete. Web. 24 Feb. 2013 Robinson, Ken. Schools Kill Creativity. Monterrey , CA Feb. 2006. Keynote address.