THE IMPACT OF IMPROVISATIONAL MUSICS

ON THE CREATIVE PROCESSES

OF CLASSICALLY AND JAZZ TRAINED STUDENT MUSICIANS
by
William Murray Allison
A Project
Presented to
The Faculty of Humboldt State University
In Partial Fulfillment
Of the Requirements for the Degree
Master 0 f Arts
In Education
May, 2005
Date
"")/ /'
'"J/ /. C\ / (..... ' ' ' ' ~
I
Date
-;-fK/
OI
Date
d--/O-{)S
THE IMPACT OF IMPROVISATIONAL MUSICS
ON THE CREATIVE PROCESSES
by
William Murray Allison
OF CLASSICALLY AND JAZZ TRAINED STUDENT MUSICIANS
Approved by:
Eric Van Duzer, Graduate Coordinator
~ <>._ 0:-.
/Keri Gelenian, Committee Member
ABSTRACT
THE IMPACT OF IMPROVISATIONAL MUSICS
ON THE CREATIVE PROCESSES
OF CLASSICALLY AND JAZZ TRAINED STUDENT MUSICIANS
by
Willianl Murray Allison
The goal of this project is to gain an understanding of how the presentation,
preparation and performance of radically different improvisational nlusics affect the
creative processes of classically and jazz trained student musicians in a rural state
university in Northern California. Interviews, journal entries of the student
musicians working across disciplines, and the observations of the embedded
researcher culminate in a live CD recording. The literature review provides a
vocabulary and history of related research.
111
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
I would like to thank my family and friends, both near and far for all their
support and encouragement throughout this project. You have nurtured and inspired
me. I want to thank all of the Inany exceptional musicians, mentors, and teachers
fron1 \Vh01n I have received guidance and encouragement. I \vant to extend a special
thanks to Dr. Sally Botzler for opening the graduate program door and to the entire
HSU Graduate Education faculty and staff for their excellent efforts. Most especially
I offer thanks to nlY committee Inembers, Dr. Ann Diver-Stamnes and Dr. Keri
Gelenian, for holding the bar high and helping Ine to climb over obstacles.
In closing, I \vant to thank Iny t\VO youngest children, Clay and Jessica, \vho
have lived this process \vith nle. I dedicate this project to the loving Inelnory of their
nlother, nlY late \vife Victoria Ann Sortor-Allison, \vhose strength, intelligence, and
wanll presence continue to enfold and sustain us.
IV
TABLE OF CONTENTS
i\BSTRAC'T iii
Classically Trained Musicians and
v
ACKNOVV'LEDGErvIENTS iv
CHAPTER I: INTRODUCTION 1
CHAPTER 2: LITERATURE REVIEW 4
Improvisation Defined .4
Roots of Musical Improvisation 5
Twentieth Century Composition 14
The Jazz Tradition 23
Focus. Benefits. and Limitations of
Training for Both Disciplines 26
Comparison of Classical and Jazz Musics 32
Creative Process 33
Comparison of Classical and Jazz Musicians 36
SUlllnlary 37
CHAPTER 3: METHODOLOGy 39
Introduction 39
Selection of Student Musicians .40
Descriptions of Musics Chosen for Rehearsals and Performance .42
First Rehearsal 44
Second Rehearsal " , 46
Third Rehearsal , " , .47
Perfornlance 50
TABLE OF CONTENTS CONTINUED
Third Rehearsal , 47
Performance 50
CHAPTER 4: CONTENT 57
CHAPTER 5: CONCLUSIONS 58
REFERENCES 63
APPENDIX A: COMPOSITIONS 65
APPENDIX B: TRANSCRIPTS OF INTERVIEWS
AND JOURNALS 68
VI
CHAPTER ONE
INTRODUCTION
This project examines the question, "What is the impact on the creative
processes of classically and jazz trained student musicians of the presentation,
preparation and performance of new in1provisational music?" While students from
both of these two disciplines share the use of the same European based systen1 of
notation, theory and harn10ny, they have very different orientations when it con1es to
the practice of in1provisation.
Historically, the virtuoso extemporization of music was practiced in Europe
up to and through the Baroque Era (1650-1750) when egalitarian and social
revolutionary fervor deemed the practice to be too wild, unrepeatable, and elitist
because it \vas perceived to be beyond the common man's life experience and
conlprehension. The advent of printed music further eroded the practice of
COlnposers leaving creative space for the rhythnl section (keyboards, bass, and
figured bass) to freely interpret the chord voicings (how the harmonic structure is
played) and even how the Inelody should be expressed. This printed Inass Inedia
industry also championed the development of music for the Inostly untrained n1asses
to play and placed very little emphasis on the relatively much smaller nlarket for
virtuoso nlusic which required professional performing musical artists to interpret
and perfornl. The Classical Age, which followed the Baroque Era, yielded to these
social pressures and developed systems of notation, theory, harmony. rhythm
nlelodic development still in common usage today. The focus became the
2
preservation of the existing body of lTIusical cOlTIposition which, through the use
of these new systems, could be performed exactly the same way each tilTIe.
Inlprovisation was deleted frOlTI COlTInl0n practice and even works by such masters as
Beethoven, Mozart Hayden and others which were largely improvised in
performance became written down to a static best guess form to allow exact,
controlled performances.
Jazz is a uniquely American art form which arose from the common people.
There is a tremendous admixture of African harmonies, rhythnls, melodies along
\vith Native American rhythms and melodies that transformed the European-based
folk and dance music of the European inllTIigrants. While the roots of jazz
incorporate these and other traditions, the practice of improvisation became central
to the music. Each new artist was expected to not only learn the repertoire but to
develop their own original dialogue of ilTIprovisation. The music was unwritten until
the early to mid-tw'entieth century, and many of the nlusicians thelTIselves came from
poverty and were untrained or musically illiterate. The gradual acceptance by jazz
composers and performers of the European systems of notation and theory to
disseminate jazz did little to ease the tensions between to two systelTIs. This schism
between the two disciplines has grown until neither school interacts or respects the
other.
This project brings together classical and Jazz students to explore a joint
inlprovisational venture in music, some of which was created for the project, that has
no key signature, time signature, melody, or written harmonies. The notation for the
3
l11usic was not based on the European system. The students were faced with the
need to \vork together in an ensemble to interpret and perforn1 the compositions and
to in1provise together. Their processes were recorded in a series of three interviews
(after the first and third of the three rehearsals and immediately after the
perforn1ance) and journal entries. The audience also provided notes of their
reactions to the performance. As a participant-observer in this project, I was able to
directly experience the ensen1ble' s development and evolution into the guiding and
creative force of the project. The literature review yielded an historical and social
basis for the project and informed the vocabulary used in the study as well as the
evaluation of the data gathered.
CHAPTER TWO
LITERATURE REVIEW
In this literature review, I will examine the underlying mechanisIns and the
history of musical iInprovisation. The focus will be on music froln Europe and the
United States. The question is how student Inusicians, trained in either the classical
or Jazz traditions and placed in an ensemble setting, develop and en1ploy
n1ethodologies for the creative, collaborative, in1provisational performance of
con1positions outside of both disciplines.
For the purposes of this project, the tenn Classical Music will refer to n1usic,
which represents the European Musical Tradition. There is a subdivision of
European Musical history known as Classical (1750 -1850), but herein the term will
be used to refer to all eras of orchestral and ensemble musics con1posed in the
traditional European systems of notation, melody, harmony, and then1atic
development. This literature review will cover roots of n1usical improvisation, both
individual and group, and creative flow in an effort to lay the foundation for an
analysis of the Inechanisn1s student musicians eInploy to accomplish their task of
perfor111ing new in1provisational n1usics.
Improl'isation Defined
In1provisation is the spontaneous, conversational performance of music
usually by a soloist with an ensemble in a perfonnance setting which is an original
variation. ornamentation. or extension of the 111usical then1e (Briggs, 1986).
4
5
Inlprovisation has been and continues to be a part of nlost of the cultures in the
\vorld and is an important part of the work of many contenlporary western composers
and performers (Walker, 1994).
The inlprovising musician can find source materials from tonality, rhythm,
tempo, volume, nlusical ideas of other ensenlble members, emotions, socio-historical
references or the very structure and form of the cOinposition (Briggs, 1986). While
inlprovising, the nlusician enters a paradoxical realm wherein there is a dual role of
\vanting to direct or to control the flow of the improvisation and to yield to the
unlinlited, unpremeditated spontaneous flights into new nlusical expression
(Nardone, 1996).
Roots ofA1usicallmprol'isation
Within the history of European musical developn1ent, there was a period
called the Baroque Era, 1650-1750 AD. The meaning of the tenn Baroque COines
fronl the Portuguese barroco. describing a deformed pearl (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
It \vas used to describe a particular style of architecture, which was a flashy and
gaudy aberration from the neighboring architecture. It meant abnormaL unexpected,
exaggerated, grotesque, or in bad taste in conlmon usage and retains this sense today
(Grout & Palisca, 1996).
The l11usic of the day was flashy, unexpected, and improvised live in a
virtuoso manner leaving the listeners surprised and emotionally aroused, waiting to
see \vhere the piece would take thenl (Grout & Palisca, 1996). During this time, the
C0111posers \vere using a COnll110n set of nlusical notation and a standardized
6
harnl0nic development. They held to a higher ideal of humanity's ability to
express and experience the emotions and states of higher reasoning or even intuitive
states. They viewed their job as composers to create music, which would lift the
listener out of the everyday awareness, to experience these elevated states (Grout &
Palisca. 1996). Similarly, the perfonners entered into a realnl of musical expression
where the muse or spirit of the Inusic would enter them and guide their improvisation
to ever higher and 1110re refined levels of archetypical expression (Nardone. 1996).
These "affections "or "states of the soul" (Grout & Palisca, 1996, p. 272)
such as anger. jealousy, curiosity, spiritual aspirations, and excitement could be
considered goals for the perfonners to achieve for the listener through virtuoso
in1provised nlusical elaborations of their compositions (Grout & Palisca,1996).
It \vas believed that music had a unique pOVv'er to lift human a\vareness to a
higher 1110re divine level (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The composer accordingly left
room for the muse or spirit of the music to express itself through the auspices of the
111usician's in1provisations (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The music was not thought to
reside on the actual page but rather to manifest its inner elan or spiritual energy
through performance (Borroff, 1971). The twentieth century classical concept that
the performer 111USt strictly adhere to the written score would have been unnatural to
these lnusicians (Igarashi. 1997). This also reflected the belief that through the
human nlind. our reasoning faculty, enlightenl11ent could be reached or accessed by
the design or architecture of the n1usic (Borroff, 1971). As a directly manifest sonic
7
inspiration. it was believed that n1usic was well suited to the task of lifting the
audience's a\vareness of their emotions and aspirations (Borroff, 1971).
The patronage of the upper/ruling classes of each region and the church
provided for the con1position and performance of new works (Grout & Palisca,
1996). The composers not only had a regular steady supply of instrulnentalists and
singers for whom to write, but the systen1 also allowed regional patrons to have their
own great orchestras. chorals, and opera cOlnpanies (Borroff, 1971). Music was
perceived to be a part of the ruling class's domain and privilege, reflecting their
supposedly higher spiritual evolution as rulers by God's grace. Music was composed
to reach for ever higher, more perfect, more heroic levels of expression to suit the
refined tastes of the educated privileged classes (Grout & Palisca, 1996). This
culturally exclusive focus had a lasting and contrary motivating effect on the future
of European music and culture as the masses pressed for reforms and even
revolutions, as well as a more egalitarian thematic distribution of all the fine arts to
include their life experiences, hopes, and drean1s for the future (Grout & Palisca,
1996).
The steady livelihoods the very best musicians could earn created a level of
great virtuosity. The con1posers counted on these virtuosos to elaborate their
compositions with improvisation, ornamentations, and extended cadenzas at the end
of each \vork (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The very forn1 and duration of the
con1position were different each tin1e it was perforn1ed. There ",ias an expectation of
an endless variety of expression, and the goal was to reach for new interpretations.
8
The audiences were unable to predict where the individual 111usician would take
the con1position, and many ti111es the composer would improvise, usually on the
keyboard, with the orchestra bringing another level of refinement to the perfor111ance
(Abrahmu, 1982).
Speaking to this practice, the history shows that there would of necessity
evolve a system of notation that would allow the clear intent to write for outer voices
and leave the n1iddle instrunlental voices open for interpretation (Borroff, 1971), thus
creating the opportunity for iluprovisation. The uniluportance of the middle ground
in a polyphonic or controlling sense was clear. This practice became known as the
Figured Bass which entailed a cOlupletely notated melodic bass part written
separately, in addition to a less structured bass part, which had various symbols
indicating but not specifying the exact notes to be played (Borroff, 1971). For
exan1ple, there were sylubols for flats, sharps, scale tone numbers, dashes, slashes,
and a variety of other 111usical orna111entations.
In the Baroque Era, individual bassists and keyboardists would set the
har1110nic fran1ework according to their level of skill and experience which greatly
influenced the performance of the virtuoso iluproviser (Borrof[ 1971). These flights
of soloists' in1aginations depended both on the bassist and the keyboardist to
unobtrusively guide the ensemble in its perfor111ance. The C0111poser left that
freedOlu to allow i111provisational genius to transcend the written notation.
Unusual chord c0111binations and tones not in the written key signature were
also notated. The individual skill and aesthetic sense of each perforn1er and each
9
ensemble were therefore quite pronounced, and each patronage had its famous
perforn1ers (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Regional and national musical dialects were
recognizable and became traditions for improvisers to incorporate into their
elaborations (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Even by adhering to these practices, the
perforn1ance of the composition was through improvisation, not through a static
reading of a fixed series of Illusical notations (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
The actual written Illusic we have today frOlll the Baroque era is an
interpretation of the ideas expressed at the time of the composition (Abrahan1, 1982).
In1provisations frOlll the Baroque Era were later written out and sin1plified to suit
less advanced lllusicians and to allow the more exact replication of the cOlllposition
fron1 region to region and ensemble to ensemble (Abrahan1, 1982).
The use of root/tonic moveillent, central tones of the standard key (first and
fifth degrees of the Western do-re-Ille Illajor scale) required improvisational input
frOlll the at1ists to be complete (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The harmonies are all built
upon the premise of creating and releasing dynamic tension by resolving to the major
key's tonic or root tone. The use of closely related or diatonic pitches kept the
hon10geneity of the overall composition allowing the resolution to be cOlllpleted, and
the cOlllposition ended at this resolution of musical tension. In today's tern1inology,
this would be called interpretive improvisation and is most cOIlln10nly practiced in
the traditions of Blues, Jazz, Gospel, and Rock. Each time the work is performed,
there \vill be changes in voicing, chord choice, and rhythm \vhich help to keep the
10
music fresh and charged for ne\v ilnprovisational explorations (Grout & Palisca.
1996).
Like today's Jazz pianist Baroque keyboardists played the bass line with
their left hands and \vith their right hands expressed the harmonic structures
demanded by the written figures (Borroff 1971). The role of these musicians was
that of a cOlnpetent and inconspicuous technician whose task it was to cOlnplete the
hanllonic fran1ework \vithout distracting attention from the prilnary parts, the outer
n1usical voices (Borroff, 1971).
Like the Jazz technique of good range voicings (colYlbinations of the standard
notes in the \vritten chords) which allow the pianist to stay in the very middle range
of the instnllnent and to stay out of the way of the rest of the ensemble, the Baroque
keyboardist played in a small easily reachable range or section of the instrunlent,
adding some ilnprovisation to the bass line for elnphasis (Borroff 1971). This is
called comping in Jazz terminology and is used to accompany soloists and ensembles
sections (Pleasants, 1969). Again, the keyboardists were expected to improvise the
tInal perforn1ance product of the composer's sketch. The dual role of Silllultaneously
setting up the harmonic structures and following the soloist was theirs to balance.
In understanding the importance of improvisation in performance, we need to
know that the actual compositions were truly vehicles for improvisation with each
section dependant on virtuoso performance to continue through the typically three
moven1ents of the concerto (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The slo\v movements were
dependant on soloists to inlprovise the actual melody itself from the notation given.
11
There was even license to pause or to flourish out of time in these elaborations
(Abraham, 1982).
In the late 1700s, there Caine to be an orientation towards less randolnness,
less unpredictability in the performance of new works and towards greater control of
the interpretation of the music (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The thematic content
expanded to fill the n1iddle voices and left little-or progressively more often no
roon1 for ilnprovisation. This developlnent gradually became the standard
n1ethodology which in effect dismissed the tradition of improvisation and the free
interpretation of the virtuoso musician as being both elitist and out of control
(Borroff. 1971). Even today, there are only a few classically trained orchestras who
can actually approach the level of improvisational expression once commonplace in
the Baroque era. One of the notable examples of such an orchestra in this era is the
Seattle Baroque Orchestra in Seattle, Washington. \vhich has forged anew the
path\vay to this tradition.
The thematic and formal freedom of Mozart and Viotti - their sense of
"planned in1provisation" - is now replaced by a more tightly-knit structure
that enfolds in a less static or disjointed manner. Both the elin1ination of the
self-contained cadenza and the linking of the movements 111ay be viewed as
attempts to impose greater continuity. (Abraham, 1982, p. 226)
New con1positions. even by the very greatest cOlnposers. were no longer
unfinished and open to individual interpretation by design; they were now expected
to be 'whole and complete expressions which were to be performed exactly as written
12
(Grout & Palisca, 1996). There was a lowering of the bar to accommodate this
cbange. Con1posers depended increasingly on the rules and practices of the classical
era to guide and even to curtail their explorations (Abraham, 1982). This idea that all
of the composer's concept could be written down and actually reproduced exactly as
conceived was a new development.
A case in point was the COlnposer Ran1eau, whose
... principles were based in the nature of the single chord. He demonstrated
that a fundamental (tonic) together with its third and fifth partials creates a
natural triad, which he called the comlnon chord. This, of course, had been
the basis of Renaissance and Baroque harmonic concepts, but Rameau went
further in his conten1plation of the common chord. He proposed that its
elelnents were essentially immutable in their function, which was the
function of the fundamental ... Ran1eau' s theory of chord structure was the
accepted theory of harmony through the nineteenth and into the twentieth
century and. in conservative enclaves, to the present times. (Borroff, 1971, p.
373)
Today's classically trained musicians are still working frol11 the pren1ise that
Ran1eau's concepts are the most correct and complete guiding concepts of musical
theory and practice (Borroft 1971). This has had a stifling and ethnocentric effect
upon the scope of n1usic accepted and performed by orchestras and ensembles which
work \vithin this framework of compositional and theoretical structures (Borroff,
1971).
13
The end of the Baroque era came partially as the demand grew for greater
control and unifonnity between region and performance of compositions added to
the 1110vement to \vrite new music for the n1asses and to abolish the luxurious
patronage and dependence on a slnall group of virtuoso levellnusicians to perfonn
(Abrahan1, 1982). Popular COlnposers of the era
... were \videning the gulf between amateur and professional ... by providing
special fare for the gentleman and ... by working out a deeper study for the
apprentice. If the trio sonata reflected this gulf, the music for keyboard
incorporated it. The harpsichord and, particularly in Germany, the clavichord
were the instruments of the private citizen. (Borroff, 1971, p.329)
In order to n10re precisely cOlnn1unicate and write their concepts for exact
perforn1ance, con1posers led the way to develop new instrun1ents to more accurately
reproduce the sounds and textures conceived for their compositions, and they \vrote
to a n10re functional rather than virtuoso level of perforn1er (Borroff, 1971). The
n1asses felt connected to the performance of music, and many community enserrlbles
and an1ateur orchestras developed which required less challenging n1usic to perform
(Borroff. 1971).
Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, and Chopin were all cOInposers who utilized the
richness. depth, and complexity of ilnprovisation in their work (Nardone, 1996), and
together their lives and con1positions spanned the Baroque and Classical eras.
14
Classically Trained A1usicians and TVt'entieth Century Composition
s classically trained musicians are trained to accurately perform and,
to a lin1ited extent. interpret the compositions of the past and, in their tradition, the
present (Borroff, 1971). They are expert in reading the now standardized notation,
to n1in1ic their instrun1ent's popular sound and technique. The existent body of
lTIusicalliterature is relearned by each new generation of performers who hold the
European Art Song as the height of musical expression (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
There is no training available for improvisation, and outside of a very few New
Perforn1ance Ensembles at colleges and universities around the world (dedicated to
perforn1ing and to con1posing 111usics from new and less Eurocentric cultures), there
\vould exist no n10dern tradition of improvisation in the classical realm (Grout &
Palisca, 1996). The history of European music is taught as having reached the height
of n1usical expression and as such is unchanging in its form. Even compositions
frOITI the Baroque era, which occurred before these classical methodologies were
developed, have been arranged to delete improvisation. "Thus the improvisatory
opening Adagio is probably just a tranquil recollection in cold print of the
en10tional flourish which Beethoven extemporized in the heat of the moment"
p.600). The effects are still prevalent in the lin1ited acceptance of
other cultures and approaches to musical con1position and performance.
The n10st obvious effect of this approach is to perpetuate the Eurocentric
focus of Western n1usic and to maintain the music as it is without change. By being
able to write out all the variables in this tradition, there is a loss of individual
15
expression and of virtuoso-level elaborations on some of the n1any beautiful
con1positions, thus rendering them somehow static and unchanged in the interest of
preservation. The leveling of interpretation and perforn1ance to a standard of
n1ediocrity has often been the result (Abrahmn, 1982). This is the n10st con1mon
approach to music education at many colleges and universities in the United States as
their music curriculum will verify. Musicians trained in this methodology are
focused 011 using their creative processes to facilitate their acquisition and n1astery of
compositions which reflect the tradition.
Also n1issing fron1 this standardized training is a hundred years of American
20th century composers (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The scope of this omission has
had a stifling effect on this moven1ent and has kept the listening audience to an elite
n1inority of well educated and often upper-class aficionados (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
These ne\v Alnerican composers were reacting against the stranglehold of the
established Eurocentric tradition to create a new more globally inclusive ll1usic. To
incorporate all the n1any influences found in our All1erican culture required a whole
ne\v set of techniques and even new instrUlnents to be developed to express this new
111usic (Rich, 1995).
Western Inusic began to form its basic cOll1ponents in the 11 th century. These
are the actual cOll1position, the notation used to communicate the composition to the
perfor1l1er(s), the accepted principles of order and flow of the music, and the use of
lnany sounds or polyphony (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The composers of the twentieth
century have altered some of these elements and reestablished the use of others.
16
Composition need no longer represent a finished product, but, as in antiquity
through the Middle Ages, ilnprovisation has reemerged to a central role in the
creation and performance of new Inusic (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
The standardized Western notation system has been augmented and in many
cases replaced with highly original and personalized systems of the individual
con1poser's invention (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The resulting perfonnances have
repositioned the perfonning artist as co-creators with the composer of the work as
was the ancient systen1 of musical perfonnance until the 18
th
century. The static
transmission of a finished and complete composition has been abandoned in favor of
Viliuoso improvisational n1usicianship (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The very concept of
cOlnpositional order has been replaced with indeterminacy which by design is
constantly open to any and all influences, even audience noises and accidents by the
n1usicians. Established principles were rejected as unimportant and constraining
lin1its to the true potential of the composer's work in performance (Grout and
Palisca, 1996).
The elements of polyphony (many sounds) and harmony (standardized
cOlnbinations of pitches) have ren1ained in 20
th
century composition, transformed in
their relative values and the ways in which they are used (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
These radically new compositional forn1s \vere only heard by a few educated and
progressive listeners, leaving the great n1ajority of people unaware of and unable to
relate to these new concepts. The complexity and innovative nature of the n1usic
required a sophistication of the listeners available only to a fortunate and elite few
17
(Grout & Palisca, 1996). There is very little societal or econon1ic incentive for
con1posers of difficult and unusualillusic, and the listening audience has remained a
n1inute portion of the general population (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Music which is
designed to be so open to interpretation. so flexible and adaptable was a radical break
frolll the absolute dominion of Eurocentric music as the fully realized genius of
humankind (Rich. 1995). There were enormous pressures brought to bear in the
suppression of this bold new n1usic, and n1any people never had an opportunity to
hear and learn to appreciate this new perspective (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
Commerce has added another pressure on music to produce saleable products
rather than to expand the scope of cOlnposition which has also kept the masses
una\vare of this ne,v music (Borroft 1971). The entertainment media which profited
by printing music for the n1asses, and their focus on selling popular music to arnateur
n1usicians resulted in further lin1iting the nUlnber of listeners who actually craved
new sounds and concepts. There were new musicians actually playing badly as a
result of this overexposure to truncated or popular Jazz influenced Inusic (Pleasants,
1969).
Starting around the turn of the last century. the German intellectual composer
Arnold Schoenberg (who fled Nazi Gern1any in 1933 and settled in the United
States) developed a system of composition which was atonal, that is. n1usic that
avoided a tonal center (Grout & Palisca, 1996). All notes were equal, and all
sonorities were possible. Schoenberg called this the Elnancipation of the Dissonance
(unusual and often clashing or jarring con1binations of pitches) since dissonance was
18
freed frol11 the need to resolve to consonance in the classical sense (Grout &
Palisca, 1996). He next developed a system based on a random sequence of the 12
tones in the Western n1usical octave. This removed sequential thematic and
harn10nic restrictions \vhich had guided the COlnposers of serious music up to this
time (Grout & Palisca, 1996). No longer did the Inusic have to go a certain direction
tow'ards resolution and s\veet standardized hannonies; new horizons of exploration
were opened by the inclusion of previously disfavored dissonance (Borroff, 1971). It
\vas unpredictable and therefore a surprising and freer form.
There was an irreverence and exuberant quality to this ne\v music as well.
In 1900 the 26-year-old Charles Edward Ives was in his second year as a
well-paid employee of an insurance company. In his free time he presided
over the organ loft at New York's Central Presbyterian Church, where he
occasionally tried out son1e of his own compositions on the captive
congregation, including unconventional re-harn10nizations of fmniliar old
hymns and organ improvisations that could sometil11es take headlong flight
well away from any stable tonality. On one occasion, he later relnembered
the pastor "turned around and glowered." With that glo\ver, delivered at the
advent of the new century, the day of America's musical pioneers had
dawned. (Rich, 1995, p.30)
This air of disapproval has relnained and in fact grown between the Classical
n1usic \vorld and the Ne\v Music \vorld. The definition of what was musical was
beginning to expand to allow new composers more freedom to explore and to create
19
truly innovative music. Another factor in expanding the definition of what was
n1usical was the French developlnent of Musique Concrete in the 1930s which
utilized ambient sounds. machines, traffic. crowds, nature, recorded and assembled
as part of the cOlnposition (Borroff, 1971). This was a move, with the use of
technology, to\vards the inclusion of everyday environmental sounds as both tonal
and thematic n1aterials w'hich further broadened the scope of possible compositions.
Composer Henry Cowell contributed special piano effects such as strumming
or playing directly on the strings (Rich, 1995). He also developed the tone cluster
which consisted of any and/or all tones in a given bracketed, span of pitches. such as
fron1 treble a to treble d, including all possible micro-tones (tones which exist in the
spaces between Western pitches) and which are not included in the Western
divisions of tonality (Rich, 1995). This helped people to become familiar with and
accustomed to new and unusual tonalities and to atonality (a total lack of a tonal
center). The results \vere a broadening and freeing up of the Western focus on
tonality as thematic core lnaterial. By including all sound frequencies in these tone
clusters, Cowell helped to open the way for other culturallnusical traditions and their
systen1s of tuning and tonality (Rich, 1995).
John Cage was a lnaster of chance in composition; he utilized the Chinese 1
Ching systen1 of throwing coins to randomly determine pitches in his cOlnposition
All/sic a/Changes (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Cage often lnixed text, dance, theatre,
and in1provisation in his work. The elements of spontaneity and ilnprovisation are
central to the composer's concepts. yielding ever ne\v interpretations of the core
20
Inaterials. He developed the Found Percussion Instrument tradition while a
teacher at the Cornish College in Seattle. Washington (Mathew Kozmeroski.
Personal cOlnlnunication, March, 1988). He took commonly discarded items such as
auto1110bile brake drums and sheets of left-over aluminum from aircraft asselnbly
plants and created new instruments. respectively percussion gongs and thunder
sheets (Rich. 1995). This new instrumentation was a direct ret1ection of the sound of
the world around hin1 in his daily life. Cage's con1positions also crossed the
boundaries of ClassicaL Jazz, and Popular musics in the creation of his own
distinctive music. He even used silence in his composition 4 J 33 " (4 minutes, 33
seconds) (1952), a piano piece in which a pianist and a page-turner walk onto the
stage and sit at the grand piano. They act as though there will be a beginning. The
tin1e is actually focused on getting the audience to react, and this reaction to the
n1usical silence is the actual piece (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
The relinquishing of control to spontaneity has profoundly changed the way
we as listeners hear and experience music. Instead of expecting the performance to
lead us through an emotional and intellectual sequence of sounds which lead to
traditional hannonic and thematic resolution and closure, each sound. each
con1bination of randolnized, accidental, or audience-produced sounds and tones are
heard as separate yet equal, with no specific purpose or function in a Western sense
(Grout & Palisca. 1996). The listener either enjoys these sounds or does not. There
is no expectation by either the composer or the performers that the audience will
ahvays appreciate the music. Tilne ceased to be about tempo and rhythms and
21
became simply duration and that not as a controlling force. It is another level of
freedon1 and release of control for the composers who work in this discipline (Grout
& Palisca, 1996).
Beginning about 1956, Cage moved more and more toward c0111plete
openness in every aspect of composition and performance by offering performers
options in the cOlnposer's instructions such as those in Variations IV (1963) which
called for the piece to be performed by
... any number of players, any sounds or cOlnbinations of sounds produced
by any means, \\lith or without other activities. The other activities might
well include dance and theatre. All this coincided with Cage's growing
interest in Zen Buddhisln, and n10re i111portantly, it is consonant with what is
probably a tendency for Western artists-and for Western civilization
generally-to become Inore open to ideas and beliefs of other great 'world
cultures. (Grout & Palisca, 1996, p. 795)
This aln10st Zen-like simplicity and openness often yielded profoundly
stilTing Inusical perfonnances as the individual improvisers developed their
techniques and vocabularies to interpret the new n1usic (Rich, 1995). As in many
Eastern philosophies and religions, there is a certain release of the self, of
transcending the ego and its limitations and identifications (Balara, 2000). The
con1poser is not attached to the composition as a finished product 'which represents
the ego or the Inind of the composer, and the tossing of the I Ching coins Inentioned
earlier to determine structure and composition was a total abdication of the
22
Eurocentric concept of composition (Rich, 1995). In this context, the con1poser is
set free to enjoy as many re-creations of the composition \vithout fixed parameters as
there are perforn1ances of the work (Balara, 2000).
The prin1ary drawback of this genre was its non-uniformity and the variety of
special techniques required. Each con1poser reinvents music notation with each new
n1usical idea (Briggs, 1986). The average listener can be put offby the energy and
attention required to actually hear and understand the new n1usic (Grout & Palisca,
1996). The sounds have crept into the film and entertainment industries, and the
ensen1bles practicing this discipline are prin1arily ensconced in universities and other
institutions of higher learning and thus removed fron1 everyday listening (Borroff.
1971 ).
Other than public and university radio stations, mainstream radio stations
typically have not played this music, resulting in few if any broadcasts of these
con1positions (Gil Wisdom. personal con1munication, 1990). The mainstrean1
n10dern entertainment media have guided the public's musical consumption towards
a standardized diet of popular dance music, usually '.vith four or five piece rock
bands of young and often untrained n1usicians whon1 the industry controls through
its econon1ic power (Grout & Palisca. 1996). With very few exceptions, we as
listeners are not exposed to forms of music which require actual virtuoso
perforn1ance (Borroff, 1971).
Also, the prin1ary practitioners of this genre are classically trained and have
been used to doing the \vork for the sake of the work rather than for mass approval
23
and or 111arket success (Borroff, 1971). As an intellectual exercise alone, the
n1usic remains hidden frOlTI the average untrained listener (Borroft 1971). The
power of a tradition. \vhich is constantly cOlTIposing outside of either the Classical or
Jazz tradition is potentially unlimited; there are literally no boundaries to what is
n1usical in this broader reahn.
The Jazz Trad;rion
Jazz came into existence around the turn of the last century and has grown in
its influence through n1any phases. It is generally accepted as a truly A111erican art
fonTI. The root 111usics of Jazz include traditional African rhythn1s and melodic ideas,
European dance music. Native A111erican rhyth111s, and a host of others. Even though
there is a con1mon perception in the United States that Jazz is our nationallTIusic and
c:
a top seller in the industry, actually the Jazz conSU111er is rated as 3.5 % oftoday's
..,
~ ~
n1usic buying consumer audience (Tascali Music News, 2004).
The Africanization of AlTIerican music has don1inated the popular n1usic of
I
ttl
the 20
th
century (Pleasants, 1969). New rhythlTIs and harmonic COIYlbinations :0
))
. ~
I
becan1e the familiar soundtrack of American life for lTIillions of peoples of all
ethnicities and from all cultures. The Eurocentricity of the A111erican public has
undergone a fundamental reorientation away frOlTI a strictly Western 111usical
tradition to include African, Latin American, Indonesian, and other cultural traditions
(Pleasants. 1969). Jazz is uniquely suited to absorb and incorporate these n1any
cultures as it has evolved from an origin of inter-ethnic and inter-cultural mixing.
24
African, European, Native American, and other cultures' sounds were all included
and hybridized fronl the beginning (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
Ironically enough, the actual recognition of Jazz as a new and profoundly
African American nlusical form actually happened outside of the culture which gave
it birth (Grout & Palisca, 1996). African American musicians had been improvising
choruses and variations of tunes for some time before European American orchestras
in Northern cities like Chicago began to imitate this new American music (Grout &
Palisca, 1996). This new music differed from blues and ragtime most strikingly in
the \vay it was performed live (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Instead of playing classically
straight and dry, these Jazz nlusicians extel11porized spontaneous arrangenlents,
distinguishing thenlselves with distinctive style and an individual flourish (Grout &
c:
Palsica, 1996). Players were also able to create quite clear distinctions between one
; ~
perforn1ance and another (Grout & Palisca, 1996). By the late 1930s, players like
pianist Ferdinand (Jelly Roll) MOl10n took Scott Joplin's Maple LeqlRag from
.......
\
roughly 1900 and changed the choppy irregular rhythms into smooth swinging
anticipated beats which pulsed through the melody in a new and continuous linear
fashion (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Duke Ellington was an impol1ant innovator and
used African rhythl11s and han110nies to guide his composition (Grout & Palisca,
1996). The scope of his works ranged from songs to symphonies to musicals to
dance nlusic (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Duke Ellington and Count Basie composed
for larger ensembles, Big Bands, with several trumpets, saxophones, trombones and
a rhythl11 section with a guitarist, double bass, piano and drums. Though the solos
25
v{ere still the actual fonns and arrangements becmne formalized and
written down \vith Western notation (Grout & 1996).
The very nature of Jazz is improvisation on a given tune or cOlnpositional
fonnat and is a real virtuoso's art. Groups often improvise together in a tradition
fron1 the old Ne\v Orleans style, creating point and counterpoint, harmonizations of
the melody and ne\v variations of the form (Grout & Palisca, 1996). The group
creates a context within \vhich in1provisation and original expression are possible
and supported (Balm"a, 2000). In a Baroque style, the rhythm section provides a
structure and pulse for solo and group improvisation (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
There is a required elelnent of trust and openness when lnusicians improvise.
They trust the ensemble, the composition, and their own ability to enter into a realn1
c:
..,
of higher expression wherein the spontaneous ilnprovisations guide their own
"
development (Nardone, 1996). This was partly due to the African American gospel
roots of Jazz. providing a concept of the spiritual music.
r-
Why \vas such importance focused on the development of Jazz here in the
United States? The answer is at least partially due to the fact that Jazz was one of the
first places where African American genius could be expressed and appreciated by
European Americans. African Alnerican Jazz luminaries Julian Priester and Hadley
Calimen once spoke about this topic in a Jazz history class I attended at Cornish
College of the Arts. Their point was almost missed until Priester said, "A black Inan
couldn't easily becon1e a lawyer, a doctor, or even, in those days, a professional ball
player. But it \vas all right to be a Jazz musician and to express one's true
26
intelligence in that way. A whole race was reaching for a new level of respect
and acceptance at once through the music" (Personal comn1lll1ication, April, 1988).
It is inlportant to the understanding and appreciation of Jazz to remember the
sociocultural context and the narrative content of the literature itself (Nardone,
1996). The very core of the music is improvisation; each performance and each
performer is therefore unique. Jazz rose to popularity in the 1930s as a dance music,
in the forn1 of s\ving style Jazz, and has such nl0dern day offshoots as Rock, Funk,
Hip-Hop, the Rhythm and Blues tradition, and American Popular music (Pleasants,
1969). The nlixing of cultures and peoples in cities, especially in the south, like New
Orleans reflected the multiethnic and multicultural essence of the United States as
the lTIelting pot. The cosmopolitan, accepting atmosphere of the cities allowed this
new lTIusic to gro\v and to incorporate everything to which it was exposed. There are
as many sub-genres of Jazz as there are peoples who play it, from Afro-Cuban,
African High-Life, Latin, and Japanese, to name a few (Grout & Palisca, 1996).
The very nature of Jazz is both liberating and transforming to the culture and
society 'within \vhich it is performed (Nardone, 1996). By nature, the music is not
no\\' nor ever \vill be a finished or a static body of work. The ongoing in1pact of new
conlpositions and new improvisers has constantly caused the entire genre to evolve.
Focus, Benefits, and Limitations ofTrainingfor Both Disciplines
Jazz nlusicians once con1prised a group from the nlargins of society. The
brothels and speakeasies were the places where it was performed (Pleasants, 1969).
The \\ford Jazz itself is slang forjissim or sperm and refers to the illicit origins of the
27
n1usic. These early pioneers \vere often musical illiterates who played by ear, not
fron1 notated music.
Classically trained musicians are still resentful that their training and expertise
do not easily transfer to great facility in the Jazz tradition. This schism between
classical and Jazz music has grown and becon1e the focus of many rifts in curriculum
development in U.S. schools and universities (Igarashi, 1997).
Until Jazz arose, every n1usician relied on a thousand years of musical
1.:
development in Europe; notation, theory, and perforn1ance were all a standardized
hon10geneous product (Pleasants, 1969). Musicians knew what the syn1bols n1eant
and ho\v to accurately produce the sounds as notated. With Jazz, all this changed to
incorporate the individual virtuoso n1usician's interpretation and style (Pleasants,
~ .
1969). The origins of Jazz, the early pioneers' illegitimate and untrained musicality,
It
.,
..
and the fact that the actual n1usic itself was not notated for a ti111e have caused the
ne\v flexible methodology to develop (Pleasants, 1969).
(1:]
This schism bet\veen the European notation and the Jazz style grew even :0
)
"
\vhen the greater disse111ination of Jazz as a popular 111usic lead to the \vriting down
of the tunes for those not trained in Jazz to read and perfor111. Even pitch was flexible
for the Jazz musicians as they bent and slurred through the song, adding grace notes
and embellishments which did not precisely fit with the established Western syste111
(Pleasants, 1969).
Tin1e was flexible \vith the Jazz musicians as the basic four beats per n1easure
\vere distorted to allow freer expression, and in ilnprovisation the concepts grew
28
more difficult to notate (Pleasants, 1969). Because Jazz was a performance-
based discipline. the musicians developed supplelnental syn1bols and habits of
phrasing \vhich new players could emulate accurately only by listening to the n1usic,
not by reading as in the Western tradition (Pleasants, 1969).
By n1aking the notation flexible enough to encourage each n1usician to know
the style in order to actually play the composition, such as a slow ballad, a waltz, or a
fast dance tune, Jazz became an exclusive don1ain of performance by devotees only
(Pleasants. 1996). The ideas famous instrumentalists used in their ill1provisations
becan1e part of the comlnon vocabulary of the aspiring Jazz performer (Jarvinen.
1997). There is a "feeling tone" which allows dark emotions to be exorcised or
"purged" (Nardone. 1996, p. 126) through the improvisation. It also arises fron1 and
ren1ains in opposition to ruling or don1inant culture (Nardone, 1996).
The n1usical similarities to the Baroque are quite apparent and are at once the
strength and the weakness of this discipline. Today's Jazz musicians are trained,
often at colleges and universities, to perform on their instruments with technical
skills of proficiency and accuracy at a level equal to the classical musician (Grout &
Palisca, 1996). The theory of each discipline includes lnajor and ll1inor scales and
keys. basic harmonic structure and function. They learn to read Western notation
and to play in an ensemble setting. They learn the existent body of work and then, in
addition to becon1ing a transn1itter of a static tradition, Jazz Inusicians have to learn
to in1provise their o\vn vocabulary of improvisation and to constantly reinterpret the
literature of Jazz.
,"
".
: . ~
29
There is a great irony that some of the same forces which killed
in1provisation in the Baroque Era have been leveled against Jazz. Tired of being
thought to be 111usically deformed and grotesque, to be out of control and too
dependant on the individual performer's improvisational skills to be truly valid as a
compositional form, Jazz has begun to develop a set of standard scales and chord
applications in which the student lTIusician is instructed (Igarashi, 1997). Instead of
serving as technical explanations of what has been played, COITIposed, and
in1provised in the past, an exa111ination of Jazz curriculun1 shows that the newest
trend in education is to define and codify the language and practice of Jazz (.1.
Knapp, Personal communication, August, 1987). Thus, the whole cycle of virtuosos'
n1usic becon1ing ever more n1undane and predictable has begun again in Jazz
education.
This development of a lTIOre systematic and consistant use of classically
."
based notation has both legitimized jazz as an existing tradition with a body of
.(
con1position which is now accessible for alllTIusicians to read and explore,
Unfortunately, it has also served to introduce a fixed rigidity of lTIusical
interpretation \vhich \vas not traditionally a focus ofjazz literature. It had been an
oral and performance-based tradition which required years to learn, now it is
generally available in book form.
One of the limitations has been the standard sets of chord changes and the
expectations of 111elodic and har1110nic choices the improviser can lTIake. A Finnish
researcher Topi Jarvinen examined this apparent set of expected tone choices by the
30
improviser and matched the111 with tones chosen by listeners (1arvinan, 1997). His
data found a strong correlation between what the audience expected to hear and what
the Jazz improviser chose to play. In other words, the Jazz musician has become
caught in the socio-cultural milieu and plays fron1 sets of notes that the audience
accepts and from 'which the ilnproviser is increasingly accustOlned to selecting
(Jarnvenin, 1997).
So even \vhen improvising, Jazz musicians are trapped in tight boxes of
expectation and tradition, particularly on fa111iliar tunes with famous solos associated
\vith then1. One of the leaders in expanding the musical palette to include new
sounds and rhy1hlns was Miles Davis, an African American Jazz innovator,
con1poser, and trumpeter who periodically went through complete evolutionary
changes in his perforn1ance and in his compositions. His cOlnpositional
postmodernisn1 ranged from electronic Jazz-rock, to hip-hop, funk, Brazilian, and
African percussion techniques, and he frequently acknowledged the influences of
Bach, Stockhausen, and Ornette Coleman (Balara, 2000). At the end of his life, he
wrote for symphonies and a Jazz ensen1ble using his own Internal Alelodies, which
he had never perforn1ed yet which had provided the source materials for his years of
improvising. The titles were Orange, Blue, Green, Tutti, and other abstract
associations (Davis, 1986). Listeners often cotnmented that each performance
would see new arrangetnents often \vith the for111 altered spontaneously right on
stage in live perforn1ance (1. Priester, personal coml11unication, 1988).
31
The rise of Free Jazz in the late 1960s by primarily African American
n1usicians (Igarashi, 1997) was an effoli to destroy the rigid frameworks for
in1provisation and composition (Pleasants, 1969). These improvisers also rejected
the idea of Jazz purity as a completed evolution; rather, their goal was to expand the
very boundaries of the music (Igarashi, 1997). These musicians were schooled in
gospel, blues, rhythm and blues, and various Jazz styles (Igarashi, 1997). Such
artists as Sun Ra and his Arkestra founded independent recording labels to pron10te
..,
and disseminate their work (Igarashi, 1997).
'/..
Forn1er Ellington and Sun Ra trombonist and composer Julian Priester's
1971 con1position Love Love featured each lllen1ber of a IS-voice instrun1ental
ensen1ble being written in its own time and often key signatures (1. Priester, Personal
communication, 1988). It was the admixture of these concepts which created the
dense polyphony of this con1position.
"'1
The Free Improvisation movement in Jazz was mainly by European and
-(
A111erican musicians, most of WhOlll were either university trained as composers or
.,,)t
'"
rock and roll n1usicians who abandoned all limits and previous musical materials
(Igarashi, 1997). They were trying to discover a '"universal language" (Igarashi,
1997, p. 47).
There is also the genre of Noise as a musical tradition which had its
beginning in 1987 and 1988 in New York City in primarily non-profit and n1usician
run venues (Igarashi, 1997). The music had t\VO primary characteristics:
ec1ecticisn1, that is to say it is composed in '"a n1usical vocabulary comprised of
32
appropriated rhythms, melodies, harmonies and timbres: and collage, an
intentionalluix of unrelated elements" (Igarashi, 1997, p. 2). The very unregulated
and polyphonic, n1ulticultural eclecticism is the language of this new genre (Igarashi,
1997).
Today's Jazz musicians use their creative processes to learn how to express
then1selves iluprovisationally and to find and follow the group groove or melodic
and rhythn1ic ideas. Each era or genre of Jazz has its own style of improvisation and
all players are expected to remain within these constraints, to play and to quote in a
stylistically appropriate manner. Each sub-genre has its grooves, and the expert
il11proviser learns to stay stylistically within the appropriate framework (Balara,
2000).
'i
I
,''''.
Comparison and Jazz Musics
t.,.
')

The students of both classical and Jazz music are expected to master their
instrument and to be able to perfonu from the existing and new literature in a highly
proficient and stylistically correct luanner (Pleasants. 1969). They both learn to play
European scales, chords, and modes and to understand the tenets of tonality,
phrasing, and rhythm. They both learn to read European notation and to
c0l11n1unicate with each through this medium. While both are taught to interpret the
written luusic and to put their own individual stan1p on the repertoire, traditionally
only Jazz students are trained to truly improvise and to co-create the music they are
perforn1ing (Pleasants, 1969). It is this fundamental essence of non-reproducible
111usical exploration and in1provisation which has driven the \'\-'edge between the staid
33
European classical world and the ever changing and evolving Jazz tradition
(Pleasants, 1969).
Creative process.
The set of learned luusical skills luay allow students to focus attention on and
interact with the musical literature or live music in a progressively more facile and
artistically correct n1anner. allowing them to master a composition and to assert their
o\vn personalities and interpretations. There are four stages identified in the creative
process (Csikszentmihaly, 1997). The first is the preparation phase when the
problenl or challenge is first encountered. It remains vague but wTong or unfinished
in the field in which the luusicians are working. It can be likened to a pebble in the
shoe: it is always there at the edge of one's concentration (Csikszentmihaly, 1997).
Next. the problem goes into an incubation phase in which the musicians are
not directly thinking about process. Their subconscious continues to work on the
problen1 while they sleep, walk, and otherwise go about their daily routines. They
are not aware that the connections are coming together outside of their nornlal
consciousness (Csikszentmihaly, 1997).
Eventually, the finished thought process pops into their aW'areness as a
cOlupleted gestalt a breakthrough monlent of illumination. This is lUOSt often a very
Sh011 phase (Csikszentn1ihaly, 1997). The final phase is where this insight is
evaluated and developed into a form that others can both understand and use to solve
the problem or to ans\ver the challenge in their lives and work (Csikszentluihaly,
1997).
34
Researcher and educator Dr. Mihaly Csikszentn1ihaly of the University of
Illinois at Chicago speaks of a flow or peak experience C0111mOn to artists, musicians,
athletes, and scientists. In this state of peak experience, the individual becon1es
totally one-pointed or extremely narrowly focused both mentally and physically to
the exclusion of the rest of the world (Csikszent111ihaly, 1997). Conditions must
exist for this state of flow to occur and continue. First, it is necessary to have clarity;
that is, people know what it is they are attempting to do. Second, there is iml11ediate
feedback so that they know how they are doing. Third, there is a match between the
skills needed to acc0111plish the challenge and those which individuals possess.
Fourth, deep concentration is l11aintained on the task at hand. Fifth, all of people's
ordinary problen1s are forgotten, and outside irrelevant stimuli are excluded fron1
consciousness. Sixth, control or success is possible. Seventh, people lose self-
consciousness or transcend the normal limits of the ego. Eighth, time seems to be
altered. usually passing l11uch faster while in peak flow. Ninth, the experience is
~ " ' "
autotelic or worth having for its own sake outside of everyday life (Csikszentmihaly,
,..
1997). This transformation of ten1porality into a n10nlent by nloment attention to the
unfolding improvisation is a peak flow experience (Balara, 2000).
This vital and central concentration reaches a point wherein people begin to
feel an elevated condition described as ecstatic. Ecstacy 111ay sound like an
unscientific mystical tenl1, and while there is this element, in its original Greek
sense, ecstasy si111ply means to stand to the side or to step to the side
(Csikszentmihaly, 1997). The idea is that while standing to the side of life, we enter
35
a rarified zone of total concentration and focus (Csikszentmihaly, 1997). It is the
transcendent state which optimizes the "psychic negentropy" (Balara, 2000, p. 34)
and opens the path to the inner creative self (Balara, 2000). By focusing on the
processes the student nlusicians use to learn to perform these conlpositions and
interact as an enseInble in an actual performance, we Inay learn something more of
how to initiate and guide this transcendent state of peak, flow experience into the
Inusical education of the young.
'f'
Critical listening is also a component of the creative process which allows music ~ " .
students to reason \vithin the theoretical framework and to learn the basic form and
ideas of the composition (J. Knapp, Personal communication. September, 1987).
This critical listening becomes imitation of the sounds and rhythms students hear and
are trying to Inaster.
Classically trained musicians are more prone to use traditional European theory
.. /
to understand and perfornl a new conlposition, often through the lens of Rameau' s
.(
theories. Jazz musicians often listen critically, and then imitate the sounds and artists
they hear. Both disciplines will at son1e point utilize their technical skills to read or
play through the piece. sometinles stopping to work on specific portions before
fInally playing the entire composition. There are moments for Classical and Jazz
Illusicians \vhen they are transported to a rarified zone of consciousness which
allows them to play or to improvise at a very high level of proficiency, sometimes
even on the very first attempt.
36
Comparison ofclassical and Jazz musicians.
Typically, classical n1usicians are European An1erican upper n1iddle and upper
class individuals who have the advantages of the best private and public education
(Pleasants, 1969). A growing number of artists from all ethnicities are reaching the
top levels in their area of perforn1ance, but affluence is often a factor (Pleasants,
1969). The literature often focuses on the European Art Song as the height of
n1usical achievement (Pleasants. 1969). Jazz is often relegated to Pop Music status
and hence is not a truly legitill1ate art form (Pleasants, 1969).
Jazz musicians have traditionally been fron1 all ethnicities, particularly African
All1erican. and all socio-econOll1ic levels. and originally, they often came from
poverty (Pleasants, 1969). Jazz musicians often were less skilled or trained in the
J:-.
.oj
theory and reading of a broad range of musical genres and eras (Pleasants, 1969).
There are many famous Jazz musicians who were self taught and had no way to
explain or write their ideas in any n1usically literate sense. Instead of repeating and
replicating the n1usic of the past, their focus is to create ever-new compositions and
'."}
~ ' U
in1provisational vocabulary with which to explore the possibilities.
Jazz lun1inary Branford Marsellis once spoke on PBS of the true difficulty in
learning to play Jazz (Pennabaker & Hedges, 1993). His point was that Jazz took off
from the classical training and went to new heights of expression utilizing these
skills to accomplish this. Jazz expects each in1proviser to stretch then1selves
creatively and to add to their vocabulary with each performance (Pennebaker &
Hedges. 1992).
37
Improvisation has ceased to be a part of the traditional classical training, while
Jazz is always ilnprovising, always exploring the musical terrain searching for
sOlnething new to say (Grout & Palisca, 1996). Even vvithin the constraints of the
expected consonant choices for ilnprovisation, Jazz listeners are always hoping to be
surprised, to have their expectations exceeded by the in1provisational genius of the
Inusical practitioners of the art forn1 (Nardone, 1996).
Merging of the two disciplines, classical and Jazz, is becoming n10re accepted, as
J,.
\vith pioneering Jazz educator, composer and i111proviser Jin1 Knapp's Chamber
"r'
Groove Orchestra. an offshoot of his classes at the Cornish College, with which I had
the opportunity to perfor111 and record in 1998-1999. The instrumentation and the
con1positions then1selves are a hybrid Inixture of many traditions including classical
I...".
and Jazz. "
- t : ~
l
SZImmary
My literature search supplied both terminology and a cross-disciplinary
history of exploring improvisation and its place in Western European music history.
The literature provided data fro111 studies researching peak hUl11an experiences of
creativity in the arts and sciences. This infonned n1Y study and analysis with both
the data and a rich and highly useful terminology for analyzing data gathered in this
study.
Considering the difTerences between the training of classical and jazz student
n1usicians. I becaIne interested in how being involved together in the production of
in1provisational musics might impact then1 which ultimately led to my research
38
question: What is the impact on the creative processes of classically and Jazz
trained student lTIusicians of the presentation, preparation, and perforn1ance of new
ilTIprovisational compositions? The next chapter will explore the n1ethodology I
utilized in working \Nith an ensemble of student musicians at a small state university
in northern California.
"'"
."
"I
.'.... '
CHAPTER 3
METHODOLOGY
Introduction
As a university graduate student seeking a Master of Arts in Education with a
special studies focus in 11lusic, I have conlpleted ten 111usic courses at the university
in addition to the core classes in Education, and I have conducted one of the choirs.
also taught the AM Jazz Big Band class for one semester and studied and worked
with a cross-section of music students from both the Classical and Jazz programs.
My goals in these activities were to round out n1Y course of study and expand my
kno\vledge base to ask questions about the nature of the creative musical experience.
.",.,
'",.
My baccalaureate degree is in lnusic with a focus on vocal jazz perfornlance : ~ ~
froll1 the Cornish College of the Arts in Seattle, Washington. My studies included
free nlusic frOln a performance as well as a compositional standpoint from several of
the originators of both the Twentieth Century New Music and the Free Jazz
Traditions. My interests had led to study in both areas and left nle unclear as to why
collaborative conlposition and perfonnance were so rare between them. These
experiences - 111Y undergraduate 'Nork, graduate \vork, and experiences teaching and
\vorking with student lnusicians - helped lne to fonn lny question in regard to
studying the inlpact of the presentation, preparation, and perfonnance of new
inlprovisational conlpositions on the creative processes of a quartet of classically and
Jazz trained student musicians.
39
40
Selection of Student l\1usicians and COlnpositions
Selection o[student musicians.
Prior to con1n1encing the research. I obtained approval by the Institutional
Review Board (#04-60). The project was con1pleted at a sn1all rural State University
in Northern California, vvith a student population of 7.550. At the tin1e of this study
(2004). the music department at the university had 134 music majors. The prin1ary
educational focus of the depart111ent is the classical Western European model of
hannony and notation. The music learned by the students is based on preserving this
tradition as the highest expression of n1usical composition. The departlnent has one
jazz professor. and students interested in jazz must also cOlnplete the classical course
of study. Their additional courses in the perforn1ance of jazz are focused on the
accepted use of chords, scales, and harn10nic choices froln the existing body of
literature.
My first task in the project \vas to recruit an ensen1ble of both classical and
jazz student ll1usicians. Despite the relative sn1allness of the n1usic department, these
t\\'o disciplines rarely interact, and there is a traditional educational conflict in
practice and theory. This mutual exclusivity and the resulting contrasts in practice
and perforn1ance n1ethodologies are vital components of this study.
Having decided to embed myself as a vocalist in the ensemble, I chose three
additional singers, t\VO from the Classical progran1 and one fron1 the Jazz progrmTI
\vhose voices, when added to my voice, equaled a balanced soprano, alto, tenor, and
bass vocal quartet. These students \vere all quite accomplished in their respective
41
disciplines and were open to 111usical experill1entation when I approached them to
participate in the project.
The soprano, in her senior year at the University, was a classically trained
singer with a brilliant, clear voice. Her experience in jazz had been limited to the
University's vocal jazz enserrlble which focused on 1950s pop-jazz with very little
African American influence. She was an intelligent student but had experienced
son1e difficulty opening up to improvisational expression in her lnusic in the past.
The alto, ajunior at the University, was also classically trained with a warm, full
vocal texture. She too had trouble with i111provisational expression in her course
ensen1bles.
The tenor \vas in his sixth year of study, having pursued another field in
, .
,. ~ ,
addition to lnusic. He had a very aggressive den1eanor and loved to improvise in the
vocal jazz ensemble, though he too had been focused on the mostly European
An1erican 1950s style of close hannony singing.
I then selected a jazz pianist and a classicallNew Music guitarist and
j.'11
con1poser to add instrmnents capable of 111ultiphonic (n1ultiple or many sounds)
expression. This was to provide a larger palette of improvisational textures with
\vhich the voices could interact. The keyboardist used a variety of instrmnents
including a grand piano, an electric organ, and two additional keyboard synthesizers,
along with SOlne sound altering effects boxes to expand his creative pallet of sounds
and textures. The guitarist used only a stock electric guitar and an amplifier. By
asselnbling this diverse enselnble, I sought to provide a wide range of n1usically
42
accomplished musicians who were unused to working across disciplines and
whose individual musicality was equally though differently developed.
Description o.lmusics chosen/or rehearsal andperformance.
After deciding on how to ask n1Y question, I began the process of finding
compositions for the project. I decided to use a free in1provisational piece J_ong Tone
Poem by 111Y college teacher Jay Clayton. This piece is one of her earliest fron1 the
1970s and is an excellent vehicle for developing creative enselnble explorations. As
I an1 a composer with a seventeen-year interest in performing free in1provisation, I
C0111posed two new works for this project as well. The first uses geOll1etric and wave
forn1 patterns and symbols in contrast to sections of group readings from the actual
Tao. There is also the opportunity to conduct random. improvisational explorations
'1
of the text. The second is based on two verses of dran1atic reading in sequence and a
Gospel style chorus with the audience included in the in1provisation.
..!
In Jay Clayton's Long Tone Poem, the then1atic n1aterial is a set of unpitched
rhythn1ic sequences and an ilTIprovisational 111iddle section. There are no key
.,11
signatures, no time signatures, and no tempo markings, just randOll1 pitches assigned
sequentially as well as durational cues ranging frOlTI 1/8
th
notes to undeter111ined long
tones. Perforn1ers begin as they feel drawn into the piece in no certain order. They
listen to each other's ideas and simultaneously in1provise or process new ideas as
they n10ve through the piece.
The next two are my COlTIpositions: Tao 33 and To All Leaders. Both feature
unconventional pitch-free, tell1po- free. and meter-free notation which I have
43
developed fronl the Twentieth Century and New Music Tradition and nlY thirty
years as a COlnposer, predating my own interest and experience in improvisational
Inusic. This notation calls upon the musicians to improvise the actual composition
fronl the frame work and sequences. shapes. and textures in each. By adding a text
with free interpretational, random sequencing in the Tao 33 composition, I was
looking for spontaneous phrases and sentences to occur freely between and among
the inlprovisers.
The gospel style chorus in the To All Leaders was designed to draw the
perfonners and the audience together into the conlposition as co-creators and as
celebrants of the uplifting Inessage of freedom and courage. The text is divided into
four parts. and each is added a layer at a tinle, one on each repetition with an
'j
overlapping and theatrical interweaving of the lines from each section. This piece is
1"1
both dramatic and musical in structure, and the added inlprovisational nature is
-1
.(
designed to increase dynamic tension and to release it in the chorus. (See Appendix
A for the C0111positions.)
Ensenlble Introduction to the Musics. Rehearsals, and Performance
In order to allow the enselnble to gain S0111e experience together and yet
avoid over-fanliliarity with the compositions, I scheduled three rehearsals a week
apart fronl one another at the university in the Jazz Band roonl and a public
performance in the recital hall in the nlusic department building a \veek later. At the
first rehearsal, I handed out the music and talked through each, paying particular
attention to the notations each utilized. We then ran each piece one time and left the
44
compositions as 'works in progress rather than trying to hammer out a
performance. Each rehearsal was a one time run through of the three conlpositions.
This unfinished, unrepeated rehearsal methodology left the pieces fresh for each
play-through. I gave the student nlusicians a pad and pen and asked them to write
their reactions and thoughts as we rehearsed and in between rehearsals as well. I
also interviewed thenl after the first and third rehearsals and after the actual
performance, with questions designed to delve into their creative processes as they
canle to grips with the conlpositions and with each other's often contrasting musical
disciplines to develop an ensemble perfornlance. (See Appendix B for transcripts of
the intervie\vs and students' post-rehearsal reactions and journal entries.)
First rehearsal.
I set up the group in a half circle with the singers together facing the guitar
..~ .
and piano and nlyself in the center. We all sat for the rehearsals, reading the scores
from music stands at eye level. The goal was to free up the nlusicians' hands for

.:'
!
clapping, and their eyes were all at a basic level which I hoped would encourage
'I
,JJ!
interactions.
The singers described themselves as uncomfortable with the music, each
other, and thenlselves. They were unsure what to do with the music and ranged fronl
hesitant to afraid to express themselves in the first rehearsal. They felt stuck to what
was written on the page and yet were unsure how to interpret the notation. They
spoke of wanting to be less self-conscious, to relax and let themselves go
ilnprovisationally. Along \'-lith the instrumentalists, this was an entirely new
II
45
ensemble and improvisational experience for them, and they were excited by the
brief n10lnents when it all seen1ed to come together.
L., the keyboardist, said the 111usic was "out of the realm of anything I've
done before." Singer S. recognized immediately that the difficulty of "not being
self-conscious about doing what I want with it. Just being uninhibited is going to be
probably the lnost difficult thing." Singer C. was n10ved to comment, "1 think this is
going to help me gro\\,." There \vas a desire to interact n10re frorn singer A. In his
notes from this rehearsaL he wrote that he had "never done anything like that. (1) felt
like I was afraid to jurnp in because of past training. (1) \vas interested in supporting
' ~
':\
other n1usicians.'
These students showed courage in their efforts to reach out musically to each
other. Speaking of her experience. singer C. reflected, "1 felt afraid to sing and
wasn't using very good vocal technique at first. I waited for others to transition into
sections because I was afraid to go first." She finished this first entry stating, "I'm
excited to try it again."
The guitarist N. was enthusiastic and wrote, "It almost fell into a rhyth111. We
definitely talked to each other and traded ideas. At first I didn't think it would flow.
but it was pretty obvious where we were for the 1110st part."
The ensemble began to form right away as L. the keyboardist expressed, "I
\vould hear (the guitarist) do sOlnething. and I would respond off of that. There were
a couple of times in the rehearsal where we actually played at the exact sa111e tin1e."
46
There were sor11e challenges in musical dialect for all of the students. L.
said. '"It \vas. U111. interesting. We were all pretty l11uch worried about the all of
\ve didn't have any idea what we were getting ourselves into. And I think we
were all \vorried about where we were going to place celiain notes and
I did my best to both follow the form and to n1inimize my influence as a more
experienced in1proviser. I listened to the students and worked fro111 their ideas as
much as possible.
Second rehearsal.
The guitarist was unable to attend the second rehearsal due to a prior
conll11itment out of the area. and I \vas a bit anxious about how this would effect the
ensel11ble's gro\\-1:h. Perhaps partially because I didn't interview after the second
rehearsal, the students didn't write journal entries, despite my prorTIpting at the end
of the session. I have gleaned com111ents in reference to this rehearsal from the
second interview and from my own observations.
The students appeared to be 111uch n10re dynamic, and the ensen1ble
continued to grow in strength and cohesion during the second rehearsal. Singer S.
put it this way. 1110re aware of what's going on around n1e instead of just
focusing 011 my own pati. Before I was just worried about what I was doing. and now
I can take my part in context with what everyone else is doing because I'm more
comfortable \vith the piece, so I can multitask, I
II
47
Singer A. began to develop his vocabulary to express the shapes and
contours in the notation. He noted that he "found it easier to n1ake the shapes
happen. It gets easier as we practice. (1) was out of the zone before, not so much this
til11e:'
L. was clear about the changes from the first to the second rehearsals, stating,
"WelL what has definitely changed is our acceptance of each other and the fact that
\'le're not reading conventional music. Or we're used to it, we haven't done enough
to be used to it, but we have, we're definitely more con1fortable with it. I've noticed
an exponential difference betvveen the first time and the second time ... " This new
trust in the others in the emerging ensen1ble was a central turning point in the quality
and complexity of the in1provisations both individually and collectively.
Speaking during the second intervie\v, C. illustrated the problems most of the
students experienced in the second rehearsal. "I think that up until tonight. along
.!
I(
\'lith being stuck inside the music ... , n1Y biggest \vorry has been not being finished
when everyone else is finished and being the last person singing. and being like okay
where are they, should I speed up or slow down."
Third rehearsal.
Between the initial read through and this rehearsal, the ensemble had grown
to incorporate the sum total of the students' abilities. Everyone could feel the
expansion and excitement of this transpersonal gro\vth. In response to my questions,
the following exchange with S. took place. I said, '"I think I heard you say two
things. First. between the first time and this time, this being our 3
rd
time together,
48
you now feel more connected with the S "Especially this
tin1e. both the keyboard and the guitar were amplified so they were more easily heard
I think just having - I wouldn't say I \\las feeding otl of what they were doing. but
being able to hear what they \\lere doing too - urn, made it easier for me to have n1Y
own ideas and then to, urn, to hear, to be able to hear what other people were doing
instead ofjust being like tunnel, not tunnel vision but tunnel \vhatever. (We both
laughed.) It was easier for me to, urn, run with what I was doing."
The ne\v commonality of the ensemble's improvisation drew from all our
collective experiences and abilities. Guitarist N. was observant of this change and
said --Yeah, I think that the experience will make the group a lot n10re comfortable
with group improv and voicing their own ideas in the presence of other people
\vithout feeling like they're going to get uh, shot down, I guess. Without feeling like
thei re going to get a negative response. Because we were all ... it was done in a
positive atmosphere. It's a great way to in1prove improvisational skills." S.
cOlnmented, "I think that if I was a classical musician and tried to play it would
be a stretch, and if I was a jazz musician and was forced to play classical it would be
quite a stretch. . .. those are like on opposite ends of the spectrum for me, but if you
\vere to put the two together or any type of training, I think that in this setting there's
n10re of n1esh going on because if s improvisation. And a lot of the tilne classical
people don't improvise very much... if s forcing everyone to just improvise and
really have confines like this is classical or this is jazz."

49
Even before the vocabulary was developed to talk about it, the ensenlble' s
growth was central to all of the students' experience of the project. C. reflected in
her journal entry: "I felt ll1uch Inore connected to the rest of the enselnble this till1e.
I felt like we \vere closer to being one organism than individuals singing at the sanle
tilne. I tried to lie into the flow of the irnprov. section and contribute a little bit.
still think rIll trying too hard."
This flow experience becall1e a central pati of the ensell1ble. C. expressed it as "I
think rIll a person, being a classically trained nlusician that's very, very stuck \vith
~ I
\vhaf s on the page. And so I was still kind of stuck there the first, urn, couple of
rehearsals. Even though what's on the page isn't really that specific.... my eyes
were glued to what was going on the page. And just today I put my music stand
down early in the first piece because I thought I was just staring at the music and
because I was doing that I wasn't really listening to the Inusic, as much as everything
going on around Ine. And all of sudden I could hear everyone else around me, a little
.1
bit better and I started feeling that freedOln to ilnprovise and that was a click for l1le.
And that \vas the biggest unl, progression of this for me, being able to get out of
what was on the page."
My role becanle 1110re interesting as I found my ideas ell1erging often
seenlingly spontaneously from others, and I felt the music begin to come alive
\vithout nlY ilnprovisational guidance. My only cues were for the instruments to
renlain a\vare that the singers would be atnplified, but we would not hear the
audience 111ix on stage, and so we would still need to listen acoustically to each other
50
in the performance. C. spoke about the changing dynamics, "'I was letting it
happen. and at the end of the Long Tone Poen1, we all ended together, and ... 1didn't
even try. rin here \vith everybody else and it was ah, that was my big breakthrough
n10n1ent. "
A. provided the following feedback, "To know that we were all kind of in a
train for that moment, we all just connected and went along for the ride.... (T)here
was another part that - like you said - 1hit a note that just happened to fit inside a
chord.... (T)hat was kind of neat so I'd just try to do a change up and vary that a
quarter step and feel the vibrations, which was really kind of a breakthrough
n10n1ent. 1actually felt (the vibration) in Iny sternum... - it was something 1never
really felt before... ,(A)s a group. it was just really kind of a good connection, just
n1aking that chord and just ... physically feeling the chord. 1mean... you can usually
hear it, and somewhere inside your head, you can kind of feel it, but (to have it )
actually resonate inside nlY body was a weird feeling. But it was exciting at the same
Pel/ormance
The sounds, rhythms and textures in the performance were emotionally
diverse and musically creative and free form. The first piece, Long Tone POell'l,
begins with random sequences which the singers and instrUlnentalists entered one at
a time. The tonality was polyphonic, and each singer expressed melodic and
rhythnlic ideas which were cycled (with individual revisions) from singer to singer.
The instrumentalists' strumming on the piano strings and throat singing were an10ng
51
the textures created. The improvisation section was fast and all used
nlany notes in fast sequences. The ending was all together in one everyone
felt the piece draw to a and we all exhaled as one at the ending. The overall
feeling seemed to be questioning and explorative. The students opened thenlselves to
each other. to the composition, and to the performance. This trust in the musical
others was one of the results of this project.
In the second piece (Tao #33), the textural sections were each distinct and
enl0tionally evocative in varying directions. Neutral and informative in the first
reading, good ensemble that is they listened and follow'ed each other as a
unified \vhole. The shapes really flowed and L. provided a wonderful dreamy
substructure upon which the musicians were able to ride along. The second text was
nlore aggressive. The tonal structures formed rapidly, and all the performers fit
nicely and seamlessly together. The tempo was fast, and the shapes and structures
which arose were rendered \vith spontaneous ease. The third text was quieter and
mysterious. The faster speed was drawn out with long oscillations and slurs which
formed a cohesive wave form. Singers all began to make dolphin-like sounds and
conlpletely left the Western framework of pitches and chord progressions. The
keyboards echoed the and the guitar's rhythm hits provided further
momentum.
The final section of text and improvisation was faster, aggressive, and electric
in texture. The keyboard textures sounded like drops of liquid at the end, adding
traditionally non-nlusical colors to be included both as improvisation but as source
>;1
52
111aterial for the ensemble members to improvise from.The culmination of this
C0111position included elenlents frOl11 all the sections as the final invented notation
\vas intended to do and all the students echoed this in their inlprovisation.
The final piece was a study in contrasts. The first verse was angry and loud.
\Ve all read the interlocking text with our internal frustration at the current war. The
ilnages were ugly, and violence was dismissed as collateral-danlage. The student
111usicians put thenlselves into the messages, and I believe it was the depth of their
individual internal strife over the issues in the text which lifted the performance. The
~ I
audience joined in on the chorus, and we perfornlers all had to struggle to keep the
rhythnls and fornl together in counterpoint to their voices. The second verse was
joyfuL hopefuL and uplifting. The students' snliling faces Inirrored their internal
release fonn the harsh first section to the positive second half of the composition.
El11otions were a powerful pat1 of the actual interpretation each brought to bear on
.!
the perfofl11ance. The text gave positive messages, and the final chorus seemed to go
on endlessly. The audience and the ensemble blended into one joyous unit and the
nlusic took on a new electricity and life. We sensed a connection between us. the
performers. and the audience and felt we had been effected and changed by this
project in 1110Stly positive ways.
The actual perfornlance was very powerful, and all the students had strong
and over all nl0stly positive reactions. The essence of the ensemble was nluch more
solid and unified. The ensenlble v.'orked together to express the pieces and to
ilnprovise ne\v ideas in a supportive way.
53
Asked to describe his reactions to the performance. singer A. replied, "lust
cool not lTIuch else to say. I understand what to do now for the most part." Having
struggled with her fears and trust issues, C wrote in her final journal entry, "I really
enjoyed the perforn1ance. I had a lot of fun. I was worried that doing this in front of
an audience would keep me from letting go. but it didn't. I feel like I have explored
an entirely new genre of music. I'm excited to have been involved in this."
The professional performing experiences of L. were numerous and had begun
to lift him fron1 the role of student to studio recording at1ist. As with any artist, L.
had son1e critical feedback with a balance of satisfaction and frustration over the
perforn1ance and the constraints of this format. "It felt really good. I felt that it
could have been a lot better. There definitely could have been more listening... if we
had all chosen to ignore the rhythn1 hits and just sort of all gone where we \vanted. it
would all still sort of sound like randon1 music, but it wouldn't have the same shape
and those ideas. the accents and the little unintentional rhythm interlocking that \vas
going on. wouldn't have taken place .. .I believe that \ve've all grown comfortable
\vhereas in the first rehearsal we all looked at this and just said are you crazy? It
works, it really can work and I think tonight was proof... I guess I would summarize
by saying you know ifs not your typical music, but it will help you become a better
n1usician if you live up to the challenge. lust because if s like any other music in that
you have to practice it, get used to it then it starts to make n10re sense. And soon if s
easy.
54
C. sumlned up her experience by stating, "I think that describing the
process would be fron1 the beginning just becoming familiar with what this kind of
n1usic felt like to do. Kind of on an individual basis even though we were all doing it
together- at least for me, it was more individual at first like 1was trying to
fan1iliarize myself with the n111sic. And then once 1had done that it kind of opened
up and then it became familiarizing myself not just with the n1usic as it was
portrayed, how 1was trying to interpret it but also how it felt to be singing with
everybody else. And how that was supposed to fit together with all these people with
different backgrounds. It finally evolved into ... \vhat it turned into tonight .. .It was
just like big Inusical organisln, you know working together. Whereas in the
beginning it was kind of individual and ... at the end it was like we were all one."
Comments like the one above by C. provide evidence that the goal of
engaging the classically and Jazz-trained student musicians in an ilnprovisational
n111sical experience had been accon1plished. Her feelings of being a part of
sOlnething larger than herself expressed a profound din1ension to this work, to
release oneself to the group and work in harmony to reach Inutual goals.
When 1asked S. how she felt about the perfonnance, she replied, '"I was
actually talking to sOlnebody after the perforn1ance, about how 1would have liked to
be part of the audience. And at the same tin1e as being a performer. to experience
both sides of the clin1b. Because 1think that perforn1ing the ll1usic was really
exciting, and even though ... con1ing into this 1knew this was something people
weren't used to hearing. And so maybe not quite as easy listening that people are
55
used to. But even coming into this knowing that, r still had a lot of fun performing
it. But r had a feeling ... that Inaking the n1usic was probably Inore satisfying than
listening to the n1usic. But even knowing that I was still extren1ely satisfied and had
a lot of fun creating it, if that makes sense." Again later, she reflected on the
transpersonal aspect of the project, stating, "r don't know how- to explain it except
that ... this circle has gotten bigger. .,. Like if you drop water, a drop of water into
a... lake. it has a ringlet effect, and it keeps on expanding. And I felt that's how this
kind of n1usic is. You start \vith something sn1all but the Inore that you do it it just
kind of expands, and that's ho\v it is like a language. '"
A. responded to my questions about the perfornlance with "r would say
\ve 've all studied and had experiences and in order for us all to do this we all had to
call upon those experiences in our own lives and bring them together and collaborate
and listen to each other, put our two cents worth into the pot you know. We all ... put
everything that \ve knew together with everybody else, and the pieces of the puzzle
just kind of fit together."
So it took the sun1 total of all the performers' musicianship to activate and
utilize this enselnble. We had all learned sOlnething n10re about ourselves and our
role in collective group improvisation which pointed to a level of interaction which
appeared to be transfonnative in its intensity.
This improvisational experience seems to have affected all of us by helping
us to let go of our individual and discipline/training bias. The ensemble's groVvih
seen1ed to guide the project and to actually become the essence of the perforn1ance.
.1
56
We continued to grow and change even on-stage and even with the interactions
\vith the audience co-creating the music. The knowledge that \ve all have gro\vn as a
result of this blending and evolutionary expansion beyond the normal barriers of
individual ego has enlpo\vered the students to explore new lnusical realtns. as
evidenced by their conlments in the final interview.
The students expressed new confidence and interest in perfornling nl0re
ilnprovisational nlusic. All the musicians expressed that they could now do this
nlusic again and do tnuch nl0re with it as a result of the experience gained frOin the
project. The students spoke of the freedOin of not performing simply to please an
' ~
audience, of the experience being autotelic for theln. This value of the performance
for its own sake and for the cOlnpositions themselves increased as their confidence
and abilities grew during the project.
The performance \vas recorded live to CD and is being subtnitted as Chapter
.!
4 of the project.
I
CHAPTER FOUR
CONTENT
Disk located on back cover.
.!
57
CHAPTER FIVE
CONCLUSIONS
In drawing to a close with the research on nlY question: What is the impact
on the creative processes o.fclassically andjazz trained student musicians o.fthe
presentation. preparation and performance o.lnew improvisational music?, I believe
the data support the following conclusions.
\Vhen a group of student lTIusical artists frOlTI multiple disciplines are
assenlbled and given the task of collaborating on an ensemble performance, it is
possible to use their innate love of music to help thelTI move into a state of flow in
'.
:1
which the nornlal boundaries of personality and training/life-experience can be
overcome. Fronl this state, an intuitive transpersonal consciousness can enlerge
\vhich can guide and motivate the entire enselTIble to succeed. This state of flow, or
elevated nleditative state, allows the students access to their entire body of
-!
knowledge which when with the work of the members of the group
enables the ensenlble to form and to grow lTIusically into a cOlTIpatible unit of
creative expression.
Even though the compositions for this project were outside the realm of any
of the students' performance experiences, they were all able to nlove beyond the
lilllitations of their lTIusical training and disciplines, allowing them to enter into this
state of flow in rehearsals and in performance. This helped them to develop and
expand their personal repertoire of improvisational techniques to allow the ensemble
to ilTIprovise together on the compositions.
58
59
Overcon1ing a lifetime of musical programming against improvisation and
to\vards the Western European systen1s of notation, theory, and practice was an
enormous challenge for the classically trained musicians. The history of the
evolution of Western European classical n1usic includes a rich tradition of
ilnprovisation (until the end of the Baroque Era, 1650-1750) which was abolished
and eventually forbidden by egalitarian social pressures. The virtuoso level of
musicianship required to improvise on a composition in performance becan1e Inuch
derided and ridiculed as out-of-control. aesthetic elitism.
The jazz trained student Inusicians were all involved in in1provisation as a
part of their tradition. The irony is that the jazz world has become dependant on
Western European musical notation (it was originally unwritten) and theories of
harn10ny, telnpo, key signatures (tonality), and melody to build musicians' skills.
The n1usic of this project forced these students to improvise without these systems.
Each tilne the ensen1ble in1provised, the entire collective vocabulary
expanded, and all of the students became aware of the transition from everyday
consciousness to the flow state as an important part of the process of learning to
perfonn this n1usic. As their trust in the flow of the project grew, their trust in one
another as n1usical others grew. This allo\ved theln to drop the cultural bias of their
disciplines and lifetilnes of training and experiences, so that they were able to listen
and respond to the improvisations as an ensen1ble instead of a group of separate and
diversely trained individuals.
60
When faced with such a challenge to the accepted paradignl of music, the
initial reactions of the students were shock and confusion. Their disbelief in their
individual and collective abilities to accomplish the goals of the project was based on
what was for them a solid theoretical basis. Some had been introduced to twentieth
century American cOlnposition and were aware that the European focus had been
shifted to new realms. They had also been conditioned to view this shift as having
been brief and of little consequence except for those concepts and techniques which
were very close to the body of Western lnusicalliterature. Elements such as chance,
atonality. innovative notation, and the lack of specified tempo were never popular
with the classical music world, and such unfamiliarity has indeed bred contempt for
those \\/ho conlpose in this manner.
The students with Jazz training were challenged to deliberately ignore their
in1pulse to pull the nlusic to fanliliar and safe (inside) lnusical practices. The
research fronl Finland cited in the literature review infornls us that Jazz improvisers
choose from a small nun1ber of audience-expected pitches. Musicians are expected to
recognize and stay within the genre and era of the pieces they play. which was not
useful in terms of the compositions used in this project. Musicians could not rely on
their sense of s\ving and syncopation to guide their improvising. There were no
nleters or telnpos or traditional rhythms in the compositions.
As artists, the students were able to focus on their desire to accomplish the
perfornlance of these conlpositions and to work as an ensemble to transcend not only
their norn1al musical abilities and training but also their concepts of self and
61
creativity. They spoke in the interviews of "letting go," "trusting," and "getting
off the written page and t1o\ving with the enserrlble," all of which require at least a
ten1porary suspension of the everyday reality of the University life and entering into
a reahn where the in1possible is expected and wherein they are capable of
accon1plishing this goal.
The students added their own improvisational vocabularies to the project and
gained new expeliise from the experience of accomplishing the goals of the project.
Not only were they all positive about their experiences in the ensemble, they were all
interested in doing more in1provisational music. Their confidence in themselves as
t1exible creative improvisers grew to the point where they expressed comfort with
the n1usic and \vith the enserrlble and their roles therein. All of the students felt they
had exceeded their previous abilities and that this was a positive experience.
The implications of the data from this project include the following. It was
possible to purposely initiate a state of mental t10w wherein the student musicians in
this project \vere able to meld into an ensen1ble across disciplines. Thus, nlusicians
can n10ve beyond the restrictions of a lifetime of training in a particular genre of
n1usic and indeed appear to grow musically when challenged to perform musics
using n1ethods that are foreign to their training. It seems reasonable to posit that
music education professionals Inay want to expand the training repelioire of their
students to include such improvisational work which relies on allow"ing students to
achieve a state of n1ental flow, not a usual part of the traditional n1usic education
curriculun1. It would be of interest to replicate this study to ascertain if the san1e
62
results are obtained and to expand the nUl11ber of l11usicians involved in order to
observe whether similar results are obtained with larger ensembles of classical and
Jazz musicians. It might also be of interest to see if there is a difference in the
experiences of professional musicians as opposed to student musicians at a rural
university.
If improvisational music helped the students in the study to achieve a state of
l11ental Ho\v, it raises the question as to whether it l11ay be possible to initiate How in
other educational settings. Future research l11ight focus on the possibilities in
training students in such ensemble work which transcends self-interest and places
el11phasis on the perfon11ance and learning of the whole rather than the individual.
It seel11S within the realn1 of the possible that having children experience such a state
of transpersonal creative intelligence through working collaboratively to accomplish,
for example, a joint musical, artistic, or scientific goal, we could n10re easily learn to
work together across boundaries. Particularly in this time of deep distrust of cultural
differences in U.S. society, the ability to transcend artificial barriers and work
collaboratively toward a comn10n goal may serve us well.
REFERENCES
Abrahan1, G. (1982). The New Oxford History The Age qj' Beethoven.
Oxford: Oxford University Press.
Balara, L. M. (2000). The personal and social dimensions o/creativity in collective
jazz improvisation. Unpublished doctoral dissertation, California Institute of
Integral Studies, San Francisco.
Borroff, E. (1971). Music in Europe and the United States: A history. Engelwood
Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall.
Briggs, N. L. (1986). Creative improvisation: A musical dialogue. Unpublished
doctoral dissertation, University of California, San Diego.
Csikszentmihaly, M. (1997, Spring). Flow and creativity. JVorth American
}vfontessori Teachers Association Journal, 22, (2), 57-92.
Csikszentn1ihaly. M. (1997, Spring). Flow and education. North American
j\1ontessori Teachers Association Journal, 22, (2), 3-35
Csikszentmihaly, M. (1997, Spring). Flow and creativity. North American
Alontessori Teachers Association Journal, 22, (2), 37-59.
Davis, M. (1986). Tutu. [CD]. New York: Warner Bros.
Goldfarb, J. (2004). Jazz sales lift n1usic business blues. Tiscali Music News.
Retrieved December 202004, from
news040716.
63
64
Grout, D. J. & Palisca, C.V. (1996). A history of Western music (5th ed.). New
York: W. W. Norton & Company.
Igarashi, K. (1997). A post-modern analysis ofnoise: A musical genre incorporating
improl'isation and eclecticism. Unpublished doctorial dissertation,
University of California, Los Angeles.
Jarvinen, T. (1997). Tonal dynamics and metrical structures injazz improvisation.
Unpublished doctoral dissertation, University of Jyv3skyHi, Jyv3skyla,
Finland.
Nardone, P. L. (1996). The experience ofimprovisation in music: A
phenomenological psychological analysis. Unpublished doctoral dissertation,
Saybrook Institute, San Francisco, California.
Rainey-Perry, M. M. (2003, Fall). Relating improvisational music therapy with
severely and multiply disabled children to communication development. The
Journal ofMusic Therapy, 40, (3), 227-246.
Pennabaker, A., & Hedges, C. (1993). Branford Marselles: The music tells you
[Motion picture]. United States: Columbia Records.
Pleasants, H. (1969). Serious music and all that jazz. New York: Simon & Schuster.
Rich, A. (1995). American pioneers: lIves to Cage and beJ'ond. Boston: Phaidon
Press.
Walker, W. F. (1994). A conversation based framework for musical improvisation: A
report to the University of Illinois, Department of Computing, Urbana
APPENDIX A
COMPOSITIONS
\ LONG- "/ON,.E PtJEI1) . $u; cr..,f..... (f)
d ... <.... .. .

$S f-s;

.'. 0
!
. .
.,..,
tO
, .
(.'I
r:'
0
/l

2J
-0
e; l?
.
r
0
t
65
, i
66
A Structural Improvisational Setting for Tao # 33
Itis wisdom to know others; It is enlightenment to know oneseIt:
The conqueror ofmen is powerful; The master ofhimself is strong.
/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It is wealth to be content ;It is willful to force ones' way on others.
Endurance is to keep one~ s place ; Long life it is to die and not perish.
-- The text is to read in unison at the beginning of each section of structure.Then singers
should deconstruct the lines, into words, phrases, syllables, melodies, minimalistic
frameworks and sounds.These are to follow the structural forms and end as the last player
fmishes the form.
-- The instrumentalists are to freely interpret the structures as tonallrhythmic,melodic
improvisation .Tempos may vary from very fast to 1 time through each formldeally each
section should be around 5 minutes in length.
III = 3 rhythm hits.
* = Loud percussive attacks.
Structures also read from lef1to right.
67
To All Leaders
(4)----------------------------------------------------------------------------Death is all around us;
(l)You lie;(3)---------------------------------------Look at the flies in their eyes;
(1)You tell lies;
(1 )Because you telilies;(2)--------Collateral damage;
(4)--------------------------------------------------------------------------Death is all around us;
(1)Women;(3)--------------------------------------Look at the flies in their eyes;
(1) And children;
(1 )And little babies die.(2)-----------Collateral damage.
Lift up your eyes unto freedom. (yeah)
Lend one another a helping hand. (Hallelujah!)
We all want to get to
People it's right here where we stand .(Hallelujah!)
----( repeat as long as it's got heat )--
(4)----------------------------------------------------------------------Life is flowing, boundless;
(1 )Tell the truth;(3)-----------------------------Play with your children;
(1 )Live in the truth;
(1 )Become one with the truth;(2)--------Plant a garden;
(4)--------------------------------------------------------------------Life is flowing, boundless;
(1)We all; (3)-----------------------------------Play with your children;
(1 )Shall;
(1 )Rise together as one; (2)---------------Plant a garden
Lift up your eyes unto freedom. (yeah)
Lend one another a helping hand. (Hallelujah!)
We all want to get to )
People it's right here where we stand. (Hallelujah! )
---( repeat as long as it's got heat )--
(Rehearsal notes:Each verse starts with only the (1) group reading the (1) text the first
time through. Then (2) is added the secound time and so forth. The Gospel section is fluid
and should include improvisation ,vocal and instrumental if not performed a'capella.)
APPENDIX B
TRANSCRIPTS OF INTERVIEWS AND JOURNALS
First interview: 3-24-04
Interview 1 prime: 3-26-04
Second interview: 4-07-04
Final interview: 4-10-04
Throughout the transcription of these interviews, B will stand for the
interviewer and the first letter of the musician's first name for the intervie"wee.
Interview # 1, Singer # 1
B. As I mentioned when we first talked about this project, I'm trying to learn
about your internal processes of learning to relate to and perform this music
with this ensemble. I'll be asking you questions, and I'll be tape recording
this interviews so that later your words can be transcribed accurately. We
won't be using your name. This is interview #1, and I am interviewing Singer
#1. Would you consider yourself a classical musician?
S. Maybe a hybrid?
B. What year are you in here at the University?
S. This is my seniority year.
B. Seniorish. Well okay. (Chuckles.) Have you ever experienced similar
musical forms? If so, talk about them.
68
69
S. except for the last at church we kind of do the gospelish thing but
only the chorus was familiar where we improv on the chorus.
B. Okay, "vould you describe your initial reactions to the compositions presented
for this project?
S. Can you repeat the question?
B What are your reactions to the musical compositions presented for this
project?
S. Before we went through them, I was a little hesitant, but, urn, I'Ill a little bit
more confident ofjust being free now. It was, unl, I don't know, free,
fun. Does that answer your question?
B. I'nl curious. I heard you say that. .. I think I heard you say that
initially when we first looked at them before we ran through then1 the first
time that you that they were kind of intimidating or are those
words okay?
S. Y a little uncomfortable maybe.
B. And then at son1e point in the run through or after?
S. After the run-through, I think hearing kind of where it was moving and being
able to use own, go my own way but using the guidelines ... I understood what
the guidelines wanted.
B. Okay. Describe your experience of working with musicians in the ensen1ble
who are fronl other disciplines.
70
S. Urn, interacting with the guitar and the piano ... is that what you're
saying? It was interesting to hear where other people went.or.how other
people used the guidelines. And as for where I was kind of envisioning going
with it. How did you phrase it?
B. Describe your experience of interacting with nlusicians in the ensemble who
are from other disciplines?
S. Unl, it was ... rm not sure what you are looking for. ..
B. In the music did you experience nloments when you felt clarity or a burst of
insight about your participation? If so, talk about them. If not, what didn't
work for you?
S. In Long Tone Poem, I, I think things finally clicked after the improv section.
Urn, that I don't know how everything was nleshing into each other. I wasn't
quite sure about the improv section because I didn't kno\v whether we were
supposed to improv together or how that was supposed to work. But, urn, that
piece I was pretty confident on towards the end, and I felt like, yeah, okay,
this is making sense. Urn. Tao 33, I wasn't, urn, I couldn't keep track of
where I was, necessarily with everyone else, I guess. I didn't really know
how that was working; I didn't really feel a click there. And it was a lot
harder to be creative in that piece. Urn, and I also forgot that I could use
words, like split up the words and that stuff. .. and to that To All Leaders was
- everything seemed to flow.
71
B. What is your greatest personal challenge in preparing to perform these
improvisational compositions?
S. Unl, getting rid of my... not being self-conscious about doing what I
want ""ith it. Just being uninhibited is going to be probably the most difficult
thing.
B. This isn't on nlY but I just have to ask... were you surprised that it's
pretty difficult to do anything wrong?
S. Urn, yeah. There wasn't really much room for wrong. But it was good. I was
pretty surprised that it \vas a lot nlore fun than I anticipated.
B. And I'll be asking these sanle basic questions a couple oftinles and so it
nlight seenl prenlature to ask these last two but. .. how has the experience of
working across disciplines helped or hindered your progress as a lllusician ?
S. Unl, \vell after today I understand that there are lllore realnls to music that I
think I can appreciate.
B. Do you think the experience has affected the group as a and again this
nlay seenl preillature?
S. Unl, I really know.
B. That is the end of this interview.
S. See you Saturday.
Intervievv' #1, Singer #2
B As I nlentioned \vhen \ve first started the project I'nl trying to learn about
your internal processes of learning to relate to and perform this 111usic \vith
72
this ensemble. So I'll be asking you questions and tape recording your
ansv/ers so that later your words can be transcribed accurately. We won't be
using your nan1e. This is interview #1 with singer #2. And I'm interviewing
a '" \vould you consider yourself a classical or a jazz musician?
C. Classical.
B And what year are you ?
C. Year?
B. Here at the University?
C. Ahh, five.
B. So you're getting the fifth year degree?
C. Yes.
B. Excellent. Have you ever-experienced similar n1usical forn1s? If so talk
about them.
C. Similar to \vhat we did today?
B. Yeah.
C. I have never perforn1ed or even practiced anything like we did today .No.
I had seen some things that are like this and looked at SOlne notation that \vas
similar. But I've never done this, no.
B. Where \vas this that you saw ... ?
C. Most recently I went to the state CMEA (California Music Educators
Association) conference, and I saw the State Honor Choir. and one of my
students was in it. and I looked at son1e of her n1usic, and it was silnilar. Just
73
showing lines of directions of where the voice \vas supposed to go and that
kind of stuff.
B. Wonderful! Did you get a chance to hear that in perfonnance?
C. Yeah. It was really cool. (Chuckled)
B. Very nice. Urn, describe your initial reactions to the musics used for this
project.
C. My initial reaction like when I just first looked at it? I thought it was really
exciting and cool because I had never gotten to actually do anything like it
before, so I thought it was very intriguing.
B. Describe your experience of interacting with Inusicians in the ensen1ble who
are frOtn other disciplines?
C. I felt like I \\7anted to interact m o r e ~ but was still really focused on the paper
because I \vas still trying to figure out what I was doing. But I felt like I
would have been Inore comfortable if I was making eye contact and listening
Inore than I \vas today. So I think that will happen n10re often later on as I get
Inore used to it.
B. Does that come out of your experience of improvising in groups?
C. I think so, yeah.
B. In the Inusic did you experience n10ments when you felt clarity or a burst of
insight about your patiicipation? If so, \vould you talk about theln? If not,
what didn't work for you?
74
C. I don't know if I really had anything I would call a burst of clarity. I was
really focused on because I still had this inhibition that "oh no I'm going to
do sOlnething wrong." And it was really trying hard to do n1Y best to portray
to interpret what was on the page. So I think I was a little preoccupied with
that so I didn really let myself go as much. As I think I could have.
B. So I'm hearing you say I think I'ln hearing you say that this first time
what \vork for you was you interacting as much you would
have liked because of your focus on the first run through of the music?
C. y \vhich was Iny obsession with having to do what's on the page
(laughs).
B. \Vhat is the greatest personal challenge of preparing to perfonn these
improvisational compositions?
C. My greatest personal challenge is to just let go a little Inore, I think.
B. Can you elaborate a little more on let go?
C. Let Inyself have n10re freedom of interpretation and vocally let go more. I felt
like I was afraid of whatever n1usic I was making going to be right
quote end quote (humorously), and so I think vocally and intellectually if I
can just let go.
B. How has the experience of working across 111usical disciplines helped or
hindered your progress as a musician? Again I know in the but I
just \vant to clarify that these basic questions \vill be the format for each
75
interview although it could change drastically but I'm going to try to hit
sonle of these sanle points again.
C. Okay, so this just what?
B. Ho\v has the experience of working across musical disciplines helped or
hindered your progress as a musician?
C. Um, I think it helps to get inside this kind of music because in n1usic history
and theory and stuff. we look at a bunch of this kind of stuff. But we never
do it. And I think already I have a greater understanding of what this is about
because I have done like just for an hour I feel like I've gotten inside of it a
little bit n10re. And so I think this going to help me grow.
B. Do you think the experience has affected the group as a whole? If so, in what
'ways?
C. Gosh, I don't know at this point.
B. That is perfectly valid. That's the end of this interview, and I want to thank
you for taking the time to discuss these issues with llle. Your COllln1ents \vill
be usefuL and we'll be doing this a couple n10re tillles.
Intervie\v #1, Pianist
B. As I lllentioned when we first talked about this proj ecl, I'lll trying to learn
about your internal processes of learning to perform these lllusics with this
ensemble. So, I will be asking you question, and I'll be taping the interview
so that later your words can be transcribed accurately. We won't be using
76
your nanle. This is interview #1 with the pianist, and I'm interviewing ...
would you consider yourself a classical or a jazz nlusician ?
L. unlp ... 11lore jazz definitely.
B. And what year are you in here at the university?
L. I'nl a senior.
B. Have you experienced sinlilar lTIusical forms? If so, talk about them.
L. Uh, I've done S0111e open jmTIming, a fair amount ofjust open nlusical
improvisation. Usually the difference between that and this is that it usually
finds its \vay home to some kind of key. Whereas with the Long Note Poem
(Long Tone Poem) and the, ah, the Tao 33, they weren't really, um, there was
no tonal center. It was basically totally a-tonal. So I'nl not entirely used to
music of that nature. But I feel conlfortable doing it because I have done a
fair share of ilTIprovising in the past.
B. So ... I think I'nl hearing you say that you feel cOlTIfortable leaning on your
experience inlprovising, and at the same tinle ...
L. It's out of the realm of anything I've done before.
B. Okay. Unl ... describe your initial reactions to the musics presented for this
project.
L. I sort of figured it would be you know, just strange conceptual ... to nle it
SeelTIS that the compositions provided here are more based on lTIusical
concepts. Rather than the actual sounds and blending of the pitches, it seems
like irs more of an idea. Irs not 111eant to sound as nl0st people \vould
77
describe "good." So I \vas a little bit, you know, frightened ahnost about
ho\\/ it \vould sound. Or how con1fortable everybody in the group would be
perfonning that type of music. And I definitely had son1e wOlTies, son1e
concerns, but at the same ti111e like I said I looked forward to it a lot because
like I said I had never done anything like it before. I definitely had fun doing
it it pushed 111Y horizons a little bit.
B. So, I want to get you to tell me n10re about sound good, could you telline a
little bit more about supposed to sound good or not supposed to sound good?
What does that n1ean?
L. Well, what sounds good to me doesn't really sound good to other people, like
just the typical, average Joe walking down the street is going to hear. .. when
they hear music in their head, they hear son1ething tonal, ya' know?(Scats a
line of Thelonius Monk's Straight iVO Chaser) Straight No Chaser or
sOlnething like that. They're not going to hear (sings an unresolved dissonant
phrase) this weird tri-tone (flat 5
th
, son1etimes referred to as the interval of the
devil) or any type stuff you know... it didn't really have really have a
rhythn1. There was no pulse in the first two pieces. I mean except for the
pulses \ve were creating with each other bouncing back off. But even then
there's no real set rhythm ... so... that's, that's one thing people expect to hear
when they hear music, and most people prefer to hear tonality when they hear
n1usic too, and there was neither which to n1e is awesome, I love it. But to
78
most people it's a little too out there. A lot of people probably wouldn't
be able to handle John Cage or weird stuff like this.
B. Describe your experience of interacting musicians in the ensenlble who are
fronl other disciplines.
L. As far as the people we were just in there \vith, have I had experience playing
\vith then1?
B. Just talking about (just. ..just) tonight in the ensemble how was it to have
people iInprovising along with you who have a con1pletely different
vocabulary than from different disciplines?
L. It \vas, um, interesting. You know we were all pretty n1uch worried the sanle.
All of us, we didn't have any idea what we were getting ourselves into. And I
think \ve \vere all a little worried about \vhere we \vere going to place certain
notes and everything. But I think it \vorked out really \vell. I would hear
(guitarist) do son1ething and I would respond off of that. There were a couple
of times in the rehearsal room \vhere we actually played at the exact same
time. There were some things that I heard you do that I \vent off of. There
were several things that I heard (one of the singers) do that I responded off
of. I tried to keep as open as n1uch as I could .And sometimes it felt like I
\vas sorta pushing the train too in Iny own direction, so I don't kno\v and I
feel that I had a lot of ideas and I like to forcefully present my ideas and I'ln
not sure if that's \vhat we were after here. But I feel like I'ln probably one of
79
the ones that feels more comfortable with just getting a little bit weird with
the n1usic.
B. So in the n1usic were there mon1ents when you felt clarity or a burst of insight
about your participation?
L. Well it took some ... like, especially with the shapes with the Tao #33. I'd say
there \vere definitely points where it felt like. yeah, I was n1aking a circle
with some arpeggiated figures going up and arpeggiating on a different scale
or chord on the way do\vn. And, urn, sometin1es the rhythm hits, it just - to
me there weren't necessarily anything you could call totally clear. Like the
clouds you know moved away in the heavens opened up ... until the third one
To All Leaders. That one made sense. That was like the only one that had a
set form where \ve \vould all know where we were all at a certain tin1e. The
rest ofthen1 it's anybody's guess. As to where you are in the form I mean you
got 6 different people all in 6 different places, for the most part. yeah, but I
think it would be really interesting to get that telepathic connection stronger
and so we can all tell \\:hen we are rising and be aware when we're not on the
san1e page as everybody else.
B. So I hear you saying telepathic connection - does that come out of your
playing?
L. I've had some mOlnents especially with this saxophone player friend of mine
where we can just play exactly the SaIne thing. Or he'll shout a riff (lnusical
idea), and I'll just answer right back in his face. Whether it is or is not the
80
same notes, it's usually the san1e type of feel, the same types of shapes,
the same rhythmic tendencies to push it in a certain direction .And so I
believe those connections exist. I believe there's many ilTIprovisational type
bands that exercise that a lot, trios and things are the easiest because the less
people. the less confusion. The less people are trying to steer the ship.
B. What is your greatest personal challenge in preparing to play these
compositions?
L. For me it's just probably learning to hold back a bit and to not want to just
play how I want those shapes to be. And just to keep my ears open a little
more than I was doing. I felt like I did a good job but I could have done a
little better. I don't know how much ear training or trying to hit the san1e
notes is supposed to be a part of this thing. It didn't really seem like it, but I
think that could come in useful. If I had the knowledge to intentionally create
certain harmonies by or to already know what notes you guys \vould be
hitting. I've really been working on that and hopefully I can use son1e of that
ability. But playing by ear mainly is one thing that I really need to work on. I
do it all the tin1e, but it's something that you can always get better at
.Especially in this type of music it's a crucial element.
B. How has the experience of working across musical disciplines helped or
hinder your progress as a musician?
L. Well I believe that it helped my progress as a lTIusician because it opened ll1Y
n1ind to the possibility of just \vow... I could potentially write something this
81
weird, and it is acceptable. Lots of people never hear it. I think there are a
fair amount of people \vho when they hear it will say. "Cool - thar s
interesting, that was unique!" so it definitely has its nitch so I feel, like irs
definitely progressed in that way. As far as hindering I feel that irs a step
backwards except for the 3
rd
one that had its set section of tonality. I feel that
it's a step backwards from playing actual, un1, like I was saying earlier
society's acceptable music by society's standards. I believe irs a step
back\vards fr0111 that because it'sjust tonal, it's conceptual stuff. I didn't feel
like I 'Nas reverting to my vocabulary as n1uch. I felt like I was really sort of
playing the shapes and everything else like that. And so it pulls you away
fron1 scales. It pulls you away from tonality, and I can in1agine if I played
this music all the tillle if I were placed in a tonal setting I would probably
sound like a whacko.
B. Do you think the experience has affected the progress of the group as a
whole?
L. I feel that. I n1ean, this is the group as a whole it was just tonight this past
hour so ... you know I really can't answer. I would have to say that yeah.
tonight was obviously progressive because we are now a little bit more
comfortable \vith each other where at first \ve had no idea \vhat was going to
be happening ,or how w"e would respond to each other. Now I feel less
apprehensive, I think everybody else feels less apprehensive, and I believe
82
that the next one will be even lliore open and free, and the third one will
be better than that. And the perforn1ance will be even better than that.
B. This concludes the interview.
ADENDUM L.
One other thing 1'd like to say about the second piece was that the structures
seemed to \vork. I mean I could hear everybody doing the shapes, but it
seemed like we were doing them at different tillies. I already said that at
different tin1es but I just wanted to clarify that.
B. That's in1portant. Clarity is what we're looking for here.
L. So it was basically like a tapered effect. One person would be here, and then
at the same or different person would be at the san1e spot a couple seconds
lateL and another person' d be there a couple seconds later, and son1ebody
else n1ight be at the other side of the shape, but yeah, I don't know ho\v n1uch
it \vas intended to work the following of shapes I mean. But for what it is
worth it \vas fun.
Intervie\v #1, Singer #3
B. As I n1entioned at the beginning of the proj ect, I am trying to understand
your internal processes of learning to relate to and perforn1 this music with
this ensen1ble. I will be asking you questions and tape recording you so later
your \vords can be transcribed accurately. This is interview' #1 w'ith singer #3,
and \vould you consider yourself a classical or a jazz lTIusician?
83
A. Jazz.
B. In \vhat year are you here at the university?
A. Senior.
B. Have you ever experienced similar n1usical fonns?
A. Never.
B So this is your first (uh huh) first total exposure? Interesting. Describe your
initial reaction to the tnusical compositions presented.
A. Urn, it was very ... I could say etnotional and difficult at the san1e tilne. It
involved practices that I am not trained to do so that was interesting.
B. I just want to dig for a second. So I hear you saying practices you were not
trained to do, so can you telltne more about that?
A. WelL rve always been, as far as tny music career has gone, rve always been
doing pieces that have fonn, more specific forn1s actually. You know, meter
n1arkings, tempo, keys. There was always structure, some sort of structure.
Even in the improvisational sections of jazz, we've got 16 bars, 12 bars. 24
bars to do what we needed to do. And in this case it was more like, unm, you
just had this hole, and you had to decide when the tin1e was up. So it was
something I really wasn't used to.
B. Describe your experience of interacting with musicians in the ensemble who
are fro111 other disciplines.
A. Urn. it was...we definitely had different ideas about what we were going to'
do. I as a singer was in tune with the other singers not quite so Inuch with the
84
instrun1entalists, while I am sure the pianist and the guitar player were
very in tune with each other. And I am sure, at least in n1Y opinion, that we
\vere paying more attention to our own instrun1ent type, then as though ,ve
were actually all instrull1entalists.
B. So your experience, I'm hearing you say your experience was two-fold, a
vocal cOlnponent and an instrull1ental component?
A. Yeah. Basically.
B. And am I hearing you say that there \vas not as n1uch interaction between the
two groups as there was within the two groups?
A. I would say this is probably true for the most part. There was times in my
opinion where there was a connection between all 6 of us, but for the most
part I think the vocalists were 1110re in tune with what the other vocalists were
doing. We were feeding off of that more than what the instrun1ents were
doing.
B. During the music were there moments of clarity \vhen you experienced
insight about your patiicipation?
A. I would say yeah, uh, I can't really tell you where exactly because it's kind of
hard to remember exactly what happened seeing as there was no form and
really no kind of set standard of what we were doing. It was just kind of, it
was just parts where something \vould happen and trigger a response from me
that would just be a burst, you know, of fast percussive notes in a run of SOlne
85
sort. Or I would just feel like ok someone else is doing that I should just
hold this note out for as long as I can.
B So am I hearing you say that there were moments when you were included in
the spontaneity?
A. Yeah. definitely.
B. What was your greatest personal challenge in preparing to perforn1 these
compositions?
A. Just understanding that there was really no right or wrong. Unl. like I said
previously. all my training never prepared me for sonlething like this where
anything that I did was right. If you're singing in an ensen1ble. you know,
with pieces that are written. there are definitely the right pitches. the right
rhythm. You know, if you don't sing it right, it doesn't sound right. In this
instance. anything you did was how the piece was supposed to go. So it was
really hard to grasp the concept that I could do anything that I felt I should be
doing, and uh, it would be right.
B. Ho\\! has the experience of working across disciplines helped or hindered
your progress as a musician?
A. Cross disciplines meaning...
B. Across musical disciplines. Like jazz. rock. classicaL ..
A. Yeah. You know, they're all intertwined as far as I'n1 concerned. Unl. in
order for me to learn how to sing jazz correctly, I need to know how to sing
an art song. I need to know how to speak and, and diction, lyric diction plays
86
a lot in the whole vocal aspect of music. And most of the time you get
lyric diction frOln classical training. It's kind of a hard question for me to
answer, but they're all intertwined for n1e, and I think that classical has
helped me a lot as far as understanding how the n1usic works in jazz. One
definitely helps the other.
B. Do you think the experience has affected the group as a 'whole? If so, in what
ways?
A. We definitely \vas, well at the beginning we were all a little shy, I guess you
could say. We \veren't really sure what we were doing. But as we stat1ed to
you know, perforn1 and practice, you know, create this Inusic it ... we started
to gel a little better, as a whole. I mean granted there was still the two, I Inean
the segregation of the two groups. But as a 'whole those two groups worked
really well together. And I think that it n1ade me pay a little bit n10re attention
to what I could do to help the group and made n1e realize what other people
were doing. Usually I'm just worried about my o\vn part, and in this instance
I had to, in order to make it sound good, and in order for me to do it I had to
pay attention to everybody else. For the 1110St part it was the vocalists, but
every once in a while I did hear that the pianist would do a little trill or
something, I would do what I thought that I needed to do. I think we all came
together especially in the last piece.
B. This is the end of the interview.
87
{Due to problems with the microphone I had to re-interview the 3
rd
vocalist. Although I was able to hear enough to save the vocalisf s original interview,
I have included it as reference material/data. I lost the guitarisf s interview in the
technical difficulties and due to his being out of town was unable to re-interview hiln
for the initial reactions.)
B. As I n1entioned when we first I'm trying to learn about your internal
processes about learning to relate to and perfornl this music \\lith this
ensen1ble. As I nlentioned I will be taping you that later your interview
can be transcribed accurately, and I can derive data from it. I won't be using
your nan1e. This is interview 1 take 2 and I am interviewing a singer fron1 the
jazz progran1?
A. That is correct.
B. I shouldn't be telling you I should be asking you, and you are in what year?
A. Senior.
B. Have you ever experienced similar Inusical fornls? If so, talk about then1.
A. I never have.
B. Never seen, or...
A. Ah welL I'ln sure I've seen it somewhere. I really pay attention at the
tillle. I've never performed anything like this.
B. Describe your initial reactions to the lllusic being presented for this project.
88
A. \Vell the music that we got is really wasn't technically written out music
is more of a guidelines to what we should do, it was a little strange. But as
we, ah, started to go through it, it Inade a little more sense, it just kind of
came together.
B. Describe your experience of interacting with Inusicians in the ensemble who
are from other disciplines.
A. \Vell I' n1 not an instrUlnentalist myself but uh, I think we bonded pretty
good. Especially the second time around. And the first time it's a little harder
for, I think, the vocalists to try to ilnprovise on this style of music. I'n1 not
really sure why, it just feels like it would be a harder. But yeah, it was a good
mix of instrumentalists and vocalists. I think we did a pretty good job.
B. I found sOlnething interesting in what you said there. Could you tell me n10re
about why it is harder for vocalists? Maybe you could dig a little bit deeper
and try to explain to me ...
A. Well the vocalists we aren't really, as far as improvisation goes, I know
most, lean't speak for all vocalists, but I know n10st - n1yself and a couple of
people I've talked to - we don't really have the theory behind say chord
progressions or improvising keys. It's more of what we can hear and
immediately respond to. Um, because of the fact that our instrument is part of
our body, the connection between what we're doing... there's really no delay
between the thinking and the moving of the fingers or the breathing, it's Inore
of a kind of instant. .. I don't know...
89
B. If I hear you right, you're telling, \vhat you're saying is that urn, most
often singers are trained to respond to rather than to initiate?
A. Yeah. I \vould say that's true.
B. Ok. that's an interesting point.
A. Thank you for clarifying that for me.
B. In the n1usic did you experience moments when there was clarity or a burst of
insight about your participation? If so, talk about it. If not, what didn't work
for you?
A. Well at the beginning, I was pretty tin1id because I'd never performed this
type of n1usic before. And as we started to get more into it we started to jive
as a group, it becan1e a little easier for Ine to jun1p in and give my two cents,
as it \\>'ere, to the performance. It just became easier as we went along.
B. What was the greatest personal challenge in preparing to perforn1 these
pieces?
A. Urn, I think the greatest challenge was being out of n1Y elen1ent. which was
actually having written notes and words and having everything in front of me
already done, and all I have to do is interpret \vhat son1eone else's written
down for n1e to do exactly as it is. For me to do this with no ten1po, no key,
it's a little weird.
B. How has the experience of working across n1usical disciplines helped or
hindered your progress as a n1usician?
90
A. Each, each genre offers sOillething. I illean, as far as my personal
background. I kno\v my classical has helped me a lot with my support and the
actual technique of singing, the jazz singing, has helped my ear. They both
have made nle a more rounded singer and more capable of doing different
things.
B. I just want to clarify something. that really where you are now is a result of
your experience with more than one genre. You are a jazz singer: you're
experienced and all the different kinds of music you have sung have brought
you to the place where you are with your jazz? Do I hear you, is that right?
A. Well, I kno\v that my classical training has helped with my breathing like I
said before, and an increase in range. You don't really focus as much on the
technique in jazz, rather on the final product of the sound. You don't really
think I need to support illy breath with diaphragmatic breathing where I'm
placing Iny vowels and all this other stuff. So I think that the training I got in
classical actually helped me to kno\v what I'm singing in jazz. How my voice
is if I want to nlake a deeper sound I know how to do that because of illy
training in lyric diction, \vhere all the vowels go, I think they've helped each
other out.
B. Do you think the experience has effected the group as a whole, and if so in
what ways?
A Well, that's kind of a hard question, urn. It's, I think, it's definitely helped,
it's Inade us. you know. listen illore to each other. And try to guess what
91
direction we're all going to take it. I know that there's no set beginning,
no set ending so in order for us to be a group, \\le actually have to pay
attention to what everyone else is doing. Um, there's really nobody
conducting it per say. if s mostly just us trying come together to create a
piece of music that just is there and is its own identity.
B. That" s the end of the interview.
Interview - I-prin1e, 3-26-04
Guitarist N.
B. This is a second take of the initial interviews with the guitarist and hopefully
the other male vocalist. As I mentioned when we first talked about this
project rin trying to learn about your internal process of learning to relate to
and perform this music with this ensemble. I'll be asking you questions and
tape recording your answers so that later I can transcribe your words
accurately. This is interview # 1 prilne. I guess, and I'm interviewing the
guitarist from the jazz prograIn, is that true? Or classical?
N. More classical I'd say.
B. Okay. I'm glad you clarified that. And you're a senior here this year?
N. Yes.
B. Have you ever experienced similar musical forms, if so talk about them?
N. I've seen scores. but I've never ... rve never played anything like that before.
But I've seen scores. and I've been aware that other n1usic siinilar to that
exists.
92
B. Describe your initial reactions to the n1usic prevented... presented for this
project.
N. They looked like they would be challenging to perforn1, but fun in that there
is a lot of freedo111 given to the performer to uh, n1ake celiain choices based
on what was happening \vith other performers. Based on what the other
performers were singing or playing. Mostly the freedom looked really
nice ... really inviting.
B. Describe your experience of interacting with the musicians in the ensemble
\Vh0I11 are from other disciplines.
N. Uh, I found that, probably because it was our first rehearsal that there was not
a ton of interaction. People were a bit reserved in perfonning the n1usic, and,
and for me it was the first tin1e of doing s0111ething like that a group
improvisation like that so it was, I was pretty n1uch concentrating on what I
was doing. There was a bit of sort of call and response between son1e of the
ll1usicians, which \vas interesting. I think it will probably get better as we
rehearse n10re.
B. In the 111usic were there n10lnents when you experienced clarity or a burst of
insight about your participation? If so, talk about them. If not, what didn't
\vork for you?
N. Yeah, there were times when what I was playing see111ed to really fit \vithin
what was going on. Everyone's ideas seen1ed to gel and I don't even know if
93
we were even in the san1e place in the music at that point but for some
reason the feeling of the music that everyone was doing just came together
nicely.
B. What was the greatest personal challenge in preparing to perform these
improvisational compositions?
N. Uh... I suppose just looking at the pieces and trying to think of a starting
point what, where to start, where, how to you know make the music sound
musical in a way. It was so abstract that it was hard to find a starting point,
but once I did it was easier to n1ake music from there.
B. How has the experience of working across musical disciplines helped or
hindered your progress as a musician?
N. I think if s helped because you realize how similar all music is. I think that
the realization of the similarities allows you to take different techniques
you've learned form other disciplines and apply them across disciplines, like
using classical techniques in jazz. And vice versa, just the realization that
you're playing notes and that's it comes down to. Is that it's all the same
twelve notes no matter what kind of music you play.
B. You're saying in a Western sense...
N. In a Western sense, I mean, like a guitar or a piano it's always the same 12
notes. You just make them. You string them together in different orders and
use different rhythms and it just becomes a different style of music.
94
B. Do you think the experience has effected the progress of the group as a
\vhole, and if so in what ways?
N. Yeah, I think that the experience will make the group a lot nlore comfortable
\vith group in1prov and voicing their own ideas in the presence of other
people without feeling like they're going to get uh, shot down I guess.
Without feeling like they're going to get a negative response. Because we
were all .. .it was done in a positive atmosphere. It's a great way to ilnprove
inlprovisational skills.
B. Well that's the end of the interview. (This took place in a short break bet\veen
classes for us both, and \ve were pushed for time. Also I was leery of nl0ving
ahead of the rest of the enselnble as we had used the same questions the first
time we intervie\ved, but the tape was not audible, so I erred on the side of
brevity.)
Intervie\v #2. singer # 1
B. This is the second interview in a series of three, and, again. Iny purpose in
interviewing you is to gather data for this project, and try to understand your
internal processes as a performer as you grow into this Inusic, into the
ensenlble and into this genre of music. From that spot, can you for a nloment
put yourself back in the space where you were the first night the first time
95
you looked at the music? Take just a second and then come forward. is
there any way can verbalize for n1e the way things have changed?
S. rln n10re aware of what's going on around me instead ofjust focusing on
n1Y own part. Before I was just worried about what I was doing and nO\\7 I can
take n1Y part in context with what everyone else is doing because I'm more
con1fortable with the piece, so I can n1ultitask I guess. But yeah. I guess that's
the biggest thing that jumped out at n1e.
B. That's, that's, I appreciate that. I think I heard you say two things - 1)
between the first tin1e and this time, this being our 3
rd
time together. you now
feel Inore connected with the enselnble.
S. Yeah.
B. An1 I hearing that right? Can you tell me more about that?
S. Especially this tin1e both the keyboard and the guitar were mnped so they
were more easily heard I think just having. I wouldn't say I was feeding off
of what they were doing, but being able to hear what they were doing too?
Un1. n1ade it easier for me to have my own ideas and then to un1. to hear to be
able to hear what other people were doing instead of just being like tunneL
not tunnel vision but tunnel what ever. (We both laughed.) It was easier for
Ine to um run with what I was doing.
B. Okay the second part of what I heard you say. that I think I heard you say. is
that you were more comfortable with the compositions. Can you tell n1e
n10re about the cOlnfort level?
96
S. Un1 ...
B. \\That does that Inean?
S. I think because I never had any experience with just this type of n1usic of
ho\v free it is, that I sure what I was doing. But no\v that I've had
n10re experience with rIn less inhibited, and I feel 111uch more comfortable
just to, and rn1 having more fun too, just improvising .I guess just because I
kind of have a feeling that I can be more outside the box than I was last time,
I guess ... does that n1ake sense?
B. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. It makes sense to me but then I'ln a
n1usician. (We laughed.) I guess my second question is going to be for n1e as
a con1poser and a perforn1er, I view the pieces as distinctly different. Can
you tell n1e how n1Y saying that makes you feel, \\'hat's your reaction to my
saying that?
S. I think what you're saying is you view each separate piece differently? I
totally agree with actually because when you say that. I Uln have different
emotions with each piece and I feel ilnprovising is cOlnpletely different on
each piece too. Each piece is, I feel like I'm going totally different directions
\vhen rln doing each piece. I don't view theln as, I would say that they're all
the SaIne in that all improvised. But it would be the difference
between jazz and I don't know, like marching band or sOlnething. all
improvised but they're not the san1e types of music.
97
B. I liked what I heard you saying about emotion, can you like, let's get nlore
specific. If you looked at the first piece as compared to the second piece.
S. A Long Tone Poem is more relaxing to nle and it has 1110re of, I don't kno\v.
The second piece I guess is 1'111 trying to picture nlyself back there it's going
to take a second.
B. That's alright .Take your time.
S. I wouldn't I don't how to define n1Y enlotion to the second piece but the first
one was more almost melancholy, but they're, I'm totally in a different place
when I'm UlTI performing each on e of those. I'll try to get back to you on
that.
B. That's all right, I'm purposely asking probing questions that don't have easy
a n s w ~ e r s so, I apologize for that. It's part of the technique so that I can get as
111uch as I can.
S. And it is provoking thought and I'll try to get back to you.
B. You could make a note of it if it happens later or if it doesn't C0111e up for you
in the rest of this interview. Given that everyone in here con1es from
different directions in their training and their focus, whether they're
instrumentalists, vocalists, classical, jazz, or popular, how is that experience
shaping up for you, working in an ense111ble situation with people from
different disciplines?
S. It is unl, sonletimes it's noticeable when, I mean, I would say nlost often
though, you can't really tell. Like I wouldn't be able to point at sOlTIebody
98
and say like definitely you're classical or definitely you're jazz trained.
For sure and be totally confident especially in this kind of music.
B. I find that really interesting. So are you surprised then at the commonality of
expression? I mean maybe rm fishing, I don't Inean to lead on that. What I
hear you saying that you don't hear the big differences and that's one of my
big questions - how would that be to sit down together and make nlusic?
Because basically we don't. We don't go from one departn1ent to the next
and cooperate, we don't do that .So I'm interested in any thoughts that pop up
about that.
S. I think that if I was a classical n1usician and tried to play jazz it would be a
stretch, and if I was a jazz musician and was forced to play classical it would
be quite a stretch. But to put the two, I nlean, those are like on opposite ends
of the spectrunl for me, but f you were to put the two together or any type of
training, I think that in this setting there's more of mesh going on because it's
improvisation. And a lot of the time classical people don't ilnprovise very
much, and so it's giving I don't know. There's less, it's forcing everyone to
just in1provise and really have confines like this is classical or this is jazz.
don't kno\v how to describe it.
B. That's alright, no you're doing well, and you're doing well. Nice job with
that. At this rehearsal when I listened, I found, I found for me, I again rnl
not trying to lead, but it seemed like the nlusic was performing us. It seen1ed
like there were tinles when we locked up, and I could tell where we were.
99
How, did you feel that, that's one of those breakthrough 1110ments? Did
you feel that I understand this differently, or this is \vorking right now, this
1110n1ent this feels really strong, did you have a breakthrough 1110111ent in any
of those?
S. There \vere 1110n1ents in ahl10st every, or at least the first and the last Tao 33
is still I have to think about that one. But there were 1110111ents when we were
all clicking together I n1ean it all sort of n1ade sense. It was all about improv
was the song it \vasn't you ill1provising. it wasn't (singer's nall1e deleted) C.
improvising. it was all of our efforts that kind of made a whole. I 111ean, it
wasn't the whole piece, it wasn't but definitely there were sections where I
felt that. Does that make sense?
B. That makes sense. Is there anything that you would like to add to this? Given
again that I'n1 looking to hear as much information as I can get about your
own processes of coming to deal with this 111usic, this project is there
anything you'd like to add?
S. Just son1ething I noticed \vhen we were practicing today. how I think that's
it's neat that every time every til11e we perforn1 one of the songs it's different,
and you \vould think that if you do it over and over again you would start to
get into a rut and you would start to get into the same things over and over.
But I like how it's not necessarily like that. The more \ve get into it the more
\ve get creative with it and tryout neyv areas. And I mean I don't know if you
hit a \vall eventually, but thus far having only gone through them three times
100
now, I think that it's really neat that it's even, the creativity has grown
rather than hit a wall. That's the only thing ... (her voice fades with a waiting
for n1Y reaction feel).
B. That's one of the goals of this type of music of creating a forum to free the
Inusicians form existing paradign1s. We all have different influences rn1,
really like a lot of different kinds of music, but to have a framework which is
in a way neutral, then because it's not connected to anything, that. rn1 glad
tom hear you say that. It's one of the stated goals of this type of music to free
people up from existing paradigms to actually just create brand new n1usic
each time you perform it. It's really rich to hear you say that. Thank you .1'n1
going to double check to see that we got this. (Session ends and I feel
exposed as an artist to have such a n1utually open-ended exchange and to
have let my joy at being perceived accurately as to n1Y COll1positionai intent
to create free space for expression of new ideas .1 ll1ay have over stepped my
bounds here and aIn making a note of it to see over time if it effects Esq.' s
discourse.)
IntervieW#2. singer#2
B This again is our second interview and I an1 gathering this information so I
have data to deal with question of how classical and jazz trained student
n1usicians deal with learning to in1provise music outside of either paradign1.
So this being our third get together our third rehearsal, you heard I11Y
101
questions to (singer's name deleted) S. I'll try bounce off those because I
know you're thinking about then1.
If you went back to the first tin1e you saw the music the first tilne you were
ready to go for this music ready to in1provise and think about where your
head was there at that mon1ent what you were thinking about, and come
forward to now and turn that into a like a little bit of a dialogue, so that I
could get a look at, I'd appreciate it. I didn't say that well.
C. No. No I totally understand what you're saying. Let me think, I think rn1 a
person, being a classically trained lnusician that's very. Very stuck with
what's on the page. And so I was still kind of stuck there the first un1, couple
of rehearsals, even thought what's on the page isn't really that specific, I still
was really, n1Y eyes were glued to the what was going on the page. And just
today I put my music stand down early in the first piece because I thought I
\vas just staring at the music and because I was doing that I wasn't really
listening to the n1usic, as much as everything going on around lne. And all of
sudden I could hear everyone else around me, a little bit better and I started
feeling that freedom to ilnprovise and that was a click for n1e. And that was
the biggest urn, progression of this for lne, being able to get out of what was
on the page.
B. So, when you get out of what was on the page, where do you go?
C. I go into the music actually happening around me and not into notated music?
Auditing rather than reading?
102
B. I hear you. So you're actively than responding to, co-creating, or both?
C. Both, yeah.
B. Okay, I'lll doing way too much talking here (laughter)
C. Does it help that when I'm just looking at the page when l'n1 focussed so
much on what rn1 doing that it's hard to connect \vith anybody else? I found
a lot more connection today when I looked up.
B. So in classical training, being lllore focused on reproducing exactly what's
written on the page and being now in a position with this n1usic where if
we're doing it right it's the first time it sounds that way each time, how do the
two affect you? How do those two paradigms affect you as a musician in the
middle of them?
C. Humn1 ...
B. I could ask it another way. If you \vere going to share this with another
lllusician who is interested in this kind of music, and \vho was classical
musician, how would you explain what you're going through in tenllS of
learning this lllusic?
C. How would I explain it to a classical musician? ----I'd explain it as notation
that gives you a guideline, but nothing specific, \vith a lot of room to create
and come up with your o\vn ideas. If that makes sense, is that what you're
asking?
B. Yeah. I n1ean I'm asking for what you're saying so there are no wrong
answers.
103
Given that everyone comes form different disciplines, different directions
with their lllusicality in this ensen1ble, from you know (name deleted) L. on
keyboards that plays a lot of funk and soul and rock and (naIne deleted) N.
with his jazz and his con1puter stuff, and you and I and (two names deleted)
S. and A. are form different directions, how is that to interact with an
ensemble? What kind of effects arc you noticing on yourself, 0 the ensen1ble?
C. Myself. I find it very enriching. I don't think that people I mean on both
fron1 instrulnental and vocal, and fron1 classical and jazz n1ix together enough
and I just love it. I feel like I draw upon all the experiences everybody brings
to the ensen1ble. You know I can, because I kno\v a lot of the musicians well
that are in the ensen1ble. I can hear \vhat they are doing things reflect heir
background? Urn, I'm contributing to that also while I'm doing n1Y thing, and
I dra\v upon what everyone else is doing, so it all kind of mixes together.
Which I think is really cool.
B. I feel what you're saying exactly. For n1e there are few tilnes tonight when 1
found myself improvising in a way that I felt was totally spontaneous and
free. and at the san1e tin1e I would hear (naIne deleted) L. create a sound
fran1e, and pitches or other singers COlne in with very diatonic (closely related
non-conflicting musical tones) easy to hear and identify as chord sounding
harn10nies, I don't know if that was breakthrough moments whether that was,
I don't know how to talk about that in tenns of asking a question, except to
say for llle it seen1ed like a breakthrough mOlnent. Did you have any of those
and if you did talk about tern? (It was a powerful 3
rd
rehearsal
104
and I was asking for words to go with my observations of her improv')
C. I think that up until tonight along with being stuck inside the music and stuff,
I was worrying a lot about being, n10st my biggest worry has been not being
finished when everyone else is finished and being the last person singing, and
being like okay where are they should I speed up or slo\v down?
But today I didn't do that I was letting it happen, and at the of the Long
Tone Poeln, we all ended together, and I was like I didn't even try. rm here
with everybody else and it \vas ah, that was my big breakthrough n10ment.
B. Yeah, I felt that too, it was, Chic Corea (jazz luminary) calls it crystal
there was just this InOlnent at the end of it, because it was spontaneous it was
just as musical as the sounds we created.! found that to be really powerful.!
noticed that happen several tin1es, especially on Tao 33, .In comparing
pieces, any insights you could share on how you view each piece? Either
sin1ilarities or differences, anything would be helpful.
C. In the first piece I feel like I really enjoy being in the middle of it because I
feel like all of the different urn, sounds everyone s producing kind of melts
together. and I feel like I was melting into it. If s very fluid and I liked that
and I felt like I could just kind of sit back and do my thing. If s almost
n1editative for me, which is really nice; it was just like a reflection, which is
really cool. And the second piece, I think when we do that one I'n1 thinking
105
about the phrases we say first, and so the music I'm producing kind of
reflects the nlessage. Does that make sense?
B. Yeah, oh yeah.
C. So I think it has something to do with the text. And the last one just feels
really passionate, like fire.
B. I appreciate that, oh yeah.
I was hearing you saying some things about the second one and about
reacting to the text, when as a thenlatic device, are you talking about
enlotional or the nlessage, the feeling the pentanleter of the words?
C. I think I mean the message. That they are sending, of each. And I don't know
\vhat the messages are exactly as I haven't contemplated thenl, as much as
one could certainly. But I feel like I'm playing with that as I sing. I don't
know if that makes sense?
B. I hear you. Is there anything that you would like to add or any questions or
responses that you feel I didn't ask and you didn't get a chance to respond to?
C. I can't really think of any.
B. Well feel free to jot them down if they come to you later. You can bring thenl
up in the next interview or just leave them on the pad.
Thanks for this.
The very first tinle I heard LTP 17 yrs ago was Jay Clayton, Julian Priester,
Gary Peacock and Jerry Granelli in the Opera house at the Bumpershoot
festival in Seattle, Washington. A very stellar jazz ensenlble and they sang
106
this piece and I couldn't believe free m u s i c ~ I kept thinking that someone
was going to run in and stop the music, like no, no, no. I just couldn't believe
free music. I was so excited and it lit a fire under n1e. There were fifteen
hundred people in that room screaming. SO for me to get to share this and to
\vork through a project where we can say how does that happen where
musicians get to a place where they can do that? I if s very exciting for me
Intervie\\;'#2, Singer#3
B. This is our second interview to gather data for nlY master's project and the
question is how classical and jazz l11usician' s internal processes help them to
deal in performing in an ensemble music that is outside of both paradign1s.
I'm going to go back in time for a second, to the first time you saw the music,
the first rehearsaL before we sang a note before any n1usic was made where
your Inind was at that 111on1ent. Put a stop there and go fonvard to now after
this last rehearsal if you were going to dialogue those two equal points, those
t\\'O polarities how would you do it? What changed? How did it change?
A. Well When I first saw the music I was a little taken back because it \\'as
totally new to me. I mean usually there is a notation and a meter and tempo
nlarkings and things like that. I was a little scared. Just looking at it I didn't
know \vhat to expect so I just took everyone else's, I basically became a
follower and uh, just listened to what everyone else did and I fed off that. But
then as tin1e went on I got a little comfortable with what was going on and I
started to throw in my own ideas mixing, you know randonl long tones with
107
son1e really kind of fast up tempo jazz swing scales and that kind of thing.
I have to say that now I'm pretty comfortable with it, because. and it's pretty
fun to do.
B. Okay. Everyone in this group has different Inusical experience, training.
discipline and ornamentation, how is the experience of \vorking with this
many different people and focuses in this ensemble going for you. what are
you feeling. \vhat's going on'?
A. I think it's definitely an experience to be in a group like this. I would say rve
worked with the three other singers before in different ensen1bles. I haven't
worked with the instrun1entalists before. but I do know that it seems to me
that two of the vocalists that I'n1 \vorking with seem to have con1e out of their
shells a little bit. usually pretty reserved .I kno\v I've heard both of them scat
before and they're usually pretty reserved and not so outside the box. They're
just cutting loose and it's kind of neat to see that. The instrUlnentalists too, I
don't know theln but they're just cutting loose too and it's neat to hear theln.
Everyone is just kind of breaking all boundaries just going \vith \vhat feels
natural and it's really kind of cool to see everyone doing. performing outside
of what I'd consider the norm to be. It's really kind of an interesting feeling.
(Laughs)
B. So for me, a fe\v times during this rehearsal I had a few mOlnents where I
would sing a note or n1ake a tone and I'd hear it being made by son1eone else
at the exact SaIne moment. Or I'd feel myself drop into a chord that forms as I
108
start singing. So I consider those breakthrough mOlnents because whatever
it is that brings music out of chaos actually, I mean anything is possible in
this performance. For us to con1e as an ensen1ble to the point where we have
those mOlnents is very powerful for me. I wonder did you have breakthrough
Inoments and could you talk about theln?
A. A couple instances urn. there "vas a couple tin1es where r d hear you do a
little run of son1e sort, so I'd kind of copy it a little change it up a little bit
and then you know the piano would emulate that and the guitar would do it.
But they were all just, they weren't exact replicas they took what we did
changed that around and it was kind of a good feeling. To know that we were
all kind of in a train for that moment, we all just connected and went along
for the ride. L so that was pretty cool and uh, there was another pari that like
you said I hit a note that just happened to fit inside a chord. It was just like
that was kind of neat so Id just try to do a change up and vary that a quarter
step and feel the vibrations, which was really kind of a breakthrough
n10n1ent. I, just feeling, I actually felt it in my sternUln I felt the vibration it
was something I never really felt before. And uh, just trying to do that and
make us move along as a group it "vas just really kind of a good connection.
just n1aking that chord and just feeling that I mean actually physically feeling
the chord. I Inean that's not you can usually hear it and son1ewhere inside
your head you can kind of feel it but actually resonate inside my body was a
weird feeling. But it was exciting at the same time.
109
B. Thank you for sharing that that is powerful.
As you think about each one of the pieces as you get to know then1 more,
could you for a mOlTIent could you pretend you were going to feed back to
another lTIusician briefly about each piece and to n1aybe reflect a bit on your
insight or how the pieces effect you, or what ever you want to say?
A. The first piece Long Tone I believe that is \vhat it's called? It's pretty easy I
mean the format, the different stanzas or what ever that is it's pretty easy to
1'0110\\' tones and it's a nice change of pace to be able to hold out chords and
be able to n1anipulate the music that way. And it's pretty short: I just like the
fact that's easy to tell where everybody is. And you can kind of improv
section that's a lot of fun. It just goes and then it just kind of stops. Nobody
really knows what's going to happens it just kind of happens I think that's a
really fun part of that song. I think that's my favorite part of that song. And
just the dying out it's just weird how that just kind of happens. I don't even
look at people and I can tell that it is happening. The next piece the shapes or
I guess the shapes or the lTIelodic piece I'd say that one wears lTIe out the
lTIOSt. Urn, as far as my n1ental UlTI, lTIy mental awareness it kind of starts to
fall off. Because it SeelTIS like I get through the melodic line pretty quick. I
listen it see where everyone else is and it seems like everyone else is half\\'ay.
Okay so I go back to the beginning to try to do it again just as fast as I can
because I did it before so I can end at the same time, but that never happens.
Then UlTI, it I don't know for some reason it feels very repetitive as far as the
110
attacks the lot of percussive sounds and it's like ok I'n1 doing the notes
and it sounds really cool, what kind of sounds an1 I going to make for these
percussive sounds because I keep doing the san1e things over and over again.
An like, alright and so I do the same sound but I change pitch a little bit and 0
feel like I tried to change it but it's the same thing .I gotta figure out a new
way to do son1ething. And then it just doesn't seem to happen so I get kind of
burnt out on the percussive sound part of it. And I run out of thing to do for
the glissandos L guess what would be considered the glissandos just going
up, and urn I do like a slide and I do an eighth note run and that's pretty n1uch
all I've figured out how to do. So it's just it seen1S a little bit repetitive and it
gets tiring I get a little bored with it.
Especially since I always finish before everyone else and I have to go back
and do it again. And the third piece is just my favorite I like it a lot. I think
it's the fact that it's a gospel feel is something I'm a little more fmniliar wit
and I can just .I don't know... it's I'm not really sure what it is I know that the
words are pretty powerful that we read at the beginning and the fact that we
come in layered is a pretty powerful effect too and that just preps me for
when you actually sing. When I actually start singing I'm trying to find a
place tom come in to not sound ridiculous. And so I usually find one when
you get half way through you knO'w halfway through the chorus I con1e in
and I just cut loose. This stuff is really a lot of fun; it takes a lot of wear and
tear on lny voice to do though .I'ln going all crazy wild, urn yeah.
III
B. So as going forward in this and I'm doing my part as the research
guy I'nl reading a lot of dissertations on related topics and I'n1 finding data
that seems to indicate that the same portion of the brain that develops the
ability to speak to communicate is the same portion of the brain that is
developed further for improvisation. Does it feel right, does that resonate
with you or does that not resonate with you? How does that sound?
A. I never been much of a speaker but I think nlY inlprovisation is pretty good I
wouldn't say I'm super great but I've definitely worked on it, but I really
noticed my being able to speak any better. But I could see how that
would vvork I nlean ifs a lot of quick thinking with your mouth and I never
really heard it before that's really interesting.
B. Yeah I never heard it before till I read it in a paper and I went yeah that
makes sense. Because one of the first things that happens when people learns
to in1provise is when you do a call and answer thing where you repeat what's
been said?
A. Yeah.
B. Ifs very sin1ilar to when son1eone is learning to speak a language, a very
silnilar process. and in a way seems. I'nl probably going outside of nlY
questioner format but there are moments when it seenlS to nle like
conlmunicating content that is not verbaL that there ... particularly
breakthrough Inoments there seenlS to be stuff going out, have you noticed
any of that?
112
A. Yeah rve noticed that before if s kind of a weird kind of subconscious
kind of thing. I lnean rm just doing whatever it is rm doing and I hear
sonlebody else do something like, yeah I agree, let's do that. And so we, if s
just kind of like a, I don't know what it is it's just start doing it. I've had
experiences in scatting in ajazz gig where that happens just some random
person stm1s scatting when rm scatting and so rm like let's do this. So a
little bit of call and response and then we overlap and we just do it together
and we don't look at each other really we don't really communicate with
anything but what we're singing. And it's uh, pretty it's pretty incredible.
B. I agree. Are there any thoughts that you had since we did the other interview
that you wish that you had said or questions that you \vant to ask nle?
Anything you \vanted to add?
A. Not that I can think of off the top of my head. You wrote that gospel piece,
thaf s all your text off the top of your head and you told us what you \vere
thinking about when you were writing it I'm always thinking about what was
being thought \vhen you were drawing these shapes and lines if they \vere of
just closed your eyes and then hand nloving on your own or were you
actually thinking about it .If there was any thought process behind it or if it
just canle out?
B. That was a weird... that's interesting that you would ask that. I had a
revelation. I'm looking at the notated music for Ta033 and I had thought I
\vould reduce to three sections so with that in n1ind took pen in hand and
113
decided no ... l'n1 going to do four. And I kind of debated back and forth
\vith lnyself whether four was too many sections I had reduced it to three.
Then I had went ahead and wrote the fourth one do\vn, and when I went back
and looked at n1Y original notation on the fourth and every place that the two
parts I wrote for the fourth intersected I used the symbols I used for the other
two, parts. So every place where they intersected I marked and it's almost
exactly the same and I did that a 1110nth apart without looking at these two.
Because somewhere in my head these structures have a forll1 because if you
set that one #4 there next to this #4 it loops and we can see where this
intersects here there's the three rhythlTI hits 'Nhere it goes down here and
intersects after two there's another set of rhythm hits. I didn't do that in a
conscious state of mind but there's a big argulnent that I definitely that
son1e\vhere in my head these structures exist as part of n1Y process of this line
this translation of the Tao. So that's interesting that you asked that question
and made me say that out loud that's the first tilne I've said it out loud and
I'm supposed to do that kind of thing on the tape. Apparently it isn't as
haphazard as it seell1S I don't exactly know that was a very deep question and
insight that lnade ll1e ask myself what \vere the structures. I think that for me
the first line "to know others" well there's three out of those are really
silTIilar.
A. Yeah.
114
B. I'nl not sure if it was the structure or the space that was self in there but
fore Ine that's how I looked at it.
A. Yeah.
B. And so in terms of tempos and what not you were saying I don't think there's
a wrong way to do it if any thing I personally felt like everyone really stepped
up at rehearsal tonight. I really felt it there was some really strong input fronl
everybody.
A. Yeah.
B. That was nlY feeling.
A. And like I said we've been, like the other singers I know have definitely
come out of their shells a little bit.
B. I hear you.
A. The first rehearsal it was nl0stly you. I mean I chimed in a little bit and then
the next one the next rehearsal I put nlY feet in the water a little bit more and
now everyone is just diving into the pool. It's pretty cool.
B. Thank you very much.
Intervie\v#2, Pianist
B. I'nl speaking with the keyboard player, again I'm gathering this information
so that I can begin to develop some understanding of the creative processes of
classical and jazz trained student musicians as we begin to deal with this new
nlusical format and an enselnble made up, of people from multiple
disciplines. Given that idea of everyone coming fro m different training and
115
different experiences in music, how is that going for you? What are your
reactions to this, what's going on?
L. WelL uh, I would say that urn I like the fact because I've always been
interested in fusion I like the fact that we all sort of come fronl different
musical backgrounds. I'm a little more jazz oriented in terms of inlprovisation
it seems. I thought for the most part some of the scatting you do sounds a
little bit nlore jazz orientated, and it, but then again. Scales, linear stuff
everyone was doing it all comes I mean everything comes fronl classical at
one point you know. Somebody once told me that the Bb that you're playing
in Freddy the Freeloader is the same Bb Beethoven played all those years
ago. SO it doesn't really matter to me as long as we're able to fuse all of our
styles together. And that we keep our ears open. If one person is improvising
classically and the other person is improvising in ajazz fonn there's no
reason that they can't sound good together as long as they both listen to each
other.
B. If you were to go back in tilne to the first rehearsal the first time that you
looked at the music before we made4 any sounds and put your head in that
space and bookmark it and then go over to tonight to the end of this
rehearsal. What has changed and how would you talk about this process?
L. Well what has definitely changed is our acceptance of each other and the fact
that \ve're not reading conventional music. Or we're used to it we haven't
done enough to be used to it, but we have, we're definitely more cOlnfortable
116
with it. I've noticed an exponential difference between the first tin1e and
the second tin1e, and this tilne the group definitely sounded better. I had
trouble because last time there was n10re space and now there was not that
space3. I don't know if it was adding other n1en1bers sort of it un1. Another
thing that's changed is our sound some of us are not listening to each other.
And that's one thing I felt was better last time was I felt I was tuned to
everybody else's a lot more. And this tilne I was following dynan1ics and
everything trying to get everything evened out. Everything that's happened
since the first rehearsal to now has only been an improven1ent moving in the
right direction. And once again r d noticed exponential differences in our
acceptance of the n1usic and our expression in different parts in between all
the rehearsals.
B. rln going to stop the tape for just a second and turn it over.
Second interview keyboard player continues - I just turned the tape over.
So, what ..
L. I'm not sure that was very clear. What rn1 trying to say is that I noticed
gro\vth, just very clear growth in our playing together as a group in our
n1usical conversation and comlnunication, if you 'Nill.
B. If you were to think about each piece and think about trying to explain your
reaction to, your relation to, your interpretation of each to a member
of. .. someone who is not a lnember of this ensemble, could you share that
with me?
117
L. Well, I've done that, I've gone home after these things, and told my room
mates "yeah I'm playing this weird stuff that's like you know here's the
paper now play this shape." It's really cool you know, it doesn't make sense
to anyone you would show the piece to, but. once they hear it. once they see
you play it, it definitely nlakes a lot more sense. I didn't, I wasn't sure how
well it was going to go until we actually did it, and warmed into it and now it
sounds pretty good. And I'm I totally understand that it's definitely possible
to Inake this type of music work and sound good. So if I was going to explain
it tonl sonleone else I "d say yeah it's stuff that just seems really weird, it
al1110st doesn't Inake any sense, but once you hear it and understand it you
start to understand music as more of a concept rather that set in 1110tion. You
kno\\!, what's on the page, box.
B. I hear you.
L. But I mean, I would just describe it as weird to people because it's not your
normallnusic, but it's cool And so 1, I tell people Inost of the people who I
know like a little bit like music the has a little bit more edge .So I didn't tell
them anything but you should check this type of lnusic out, with some Cage
(mid 20
th
century composer who pioneered free and improvisational music
which incorporated audience/ambient sounds as thematic source nlaterial.)
B. You personally, if you were going to verbalize the way that each piece nlakes
you feel, could you talk about similarities and dissimilarities.
118
L. Well I'd say that the LTP and the urn, what is it, Tao #33?LTP and Tao
#33 can be grouped together as SOlne type of an urn, we can alls ort of be
playing... I mean I'ln not thinking of tones at all. I 'm more or less just
thinking you know, the shapes. And it's an intense feeling irs like I know
I've tried to express this shape to the best of my ability, I have to express this
(bah bu bah sings these sounds) you know short long. Down, up, I have to
express those concepts to the best of my ability and stay within a certain
framework of taste, I would think. And to not prevent or not to step on
anyone else's toes, to still leave enough space for everyone to feel good. And
then have little fast spurts of fast runs and things (consecutive short duration
note usually though not al ways in a descending or ascending sequence) on
the iInprovisation sections. It's just sort of an open feeling I can't really
explain that n1akes Ine feel the I feel when I'm playing. A jazz piece or
sOlnething I haven't played before, it's the same feeling. It's the feeling of
sight reading (playing music as you read it the first time with no rehearsal)
it's the feeling of 'this is going to sound totally different than the last time we
played it. Whereas you get comfortable with a jazz song or a tonal song and
you start to play it sort of the san1e in the san1e area every tin1e, \vhere as with
this, I'm developing ideas I want to try every time but it definitely makes me
come up \vith SOlne new things every time I think about it.
B. For me a few tilnes tonight I experienced singing sounds, shapes, textures
from other people, whether it be at the same instant and drop it in the same
119
area. And I consider that a breakthrough moment because it wasn't an
intentional thing but if s obviously a thing, in quotation marks, because it
happened more than once? Did you experience that and would you talk about
it?
L. I did there were tin1es when we were both hitting rides, or tin1es when
everybody was on the same page as far as rises and falls (rises are greater
volume, density and/or speed/complexity, falls are the converse) and listening
to each other, when and where the plaCelTIent of the percussion attacks and
SOiTIe interlocking (when lTIultiple rhythm patterns fit inside of each other to
form a larger cumulative whole) on the percussion attacks. I don't
Think it was happening intentionally like a set thing we're trying to do, if s
just a thing because we are playing and we have ears you know we're
listening and we're trying to whether we think we're reacting ton1 it or not
if s aln10st impossible to not to react to what everybody else is doing. The
thing we all have to watch out for is over reaction and in those pieces I think
that could possibly be a problelTI with 6 performers. To All Leaders there's
lots of space and it seen1S like there's tin1e it seems like there's a set rhythm
or tilTIe to the way you guys are interlocking your verbal statements which
leaves perfect little accented spots in between for atonal pads or plucking the
strings (reaching inside the grand piano and strumn1ing or plucking the metal
strings by hand to elicit a variety of unusual textures) or N. (name deleted) to
just go bauer-wow-narr. you know some weird tren1010 thing. But there were
l
'k h "II' 120
1:
1 en you say, we a must you know three ba, ba, ba where pal s, e w
we can counteract. So urn I feel that that one is sort of a little bit n10re set. I
have a good idea of the gospel section of what I'm going to do. But at the
sanle tin1e that's always different but no more different than ajazz chart,
Every time you read ajazz chart it's always a little but different. This could
be different I have different ideas f or it, like blues scales (Derived from
African traditions and with less and different notes from then western Do Re
Me scale). But rnl always going to use a blues scale for that part whereas on
the other things scales weren't even a part.
B. Were we in the same key tonight as we ...
L. Uh no, the first rehearsal we were in A both tin1es. The second time we were
in Ab for the first chorus and A for the second chorous. Tonight we were in G
both tinles and I went off of what you were doing.
B. Yeah that's interesting that it changes around like that. I like that.
L. I think G sounded very comfortable to land. Especially for me. Basically I
think that Urn the first two pieces are very 9ntense they're sort of gritty and
ifs nlade almost for that it's n1ade for everybody to experience it as a
concept. to put enlotion and intensity in it. I think the audience is going to
pick up on that because ifs in us and ifs what's suppose to be portrayed
through the n1usic. And to all leaders is clear I feel it has a clear Inessage and
if s less active unitl the chorus. And the chorus the part that really brings
121
people in, like alright. cool. And I consider that a little more normal than
the first two because it does have son1e sort of tonal gospel section at least.
B. Are there any thoughts or insights you might have had in between these two
interviews that you might want to chime in with a little bit?
L. Urn, just that I like this type of music, this approach to writing n1usic and I
may very well try to incorporate that into SOine of my own playing or writing
and playing. In performance with other ensen1bles but it is something that
isn't that accessible to other people. You couldn't just put this stuff on, have
a dinner and have it be background music. If you're gone listen to it you
know what's to prepare yourself for it. So it's something that in the type of
academics I would ant to ply this type of music. Or in the middle of norn1al
n1usic play on or two pieces of this nature. I've had a lot of fun doing it and I
think that it adds a whole other dimension to which there's just no end. Every
genre of music has so many different avenues runways and things that you
can go to and take off from. This one seen1S like it has more different
possibilities tan maybe even tonal possibilities than eve3n tonal music. It
seems like you could totally do some permutation (n1usical treatment/
approach which shapes the idea anew) calculations you could probably find
more concepts to play shapes or sentences or things like that or ideas than
you could progressions of notes. Maybe not but ton1 Ine it SeelTIS aln10st n10re
lin1itless than tonal music.
122
B. One of the things I'm doing as the research guy is to read a lot
dissertations, and I'm reading one from Finland, there was this guy who got a
PhD for their investigation into improvisation. What she discovered was she
took chords and she took all 12 tones in the octave and she had people rate.
you know which ones fit the best, which tones? After she did that she took
chord progressions and asked people what tone they thought it would go to
next? And she graphed all of this out and mostly people picked all of the
diatonic tones that an improviser would hon1e in on. Then she analyzed some
living and dead Be-Bop players on Rhythm changes (songs written on the
chord progression of I've Got Rhythn1,) and she analyzed the strong tones in
the chords as they went by. And compared those strong tones with the tones
that#1 the people had chosen for the various chords and #2 with the tones the
improvisers were using for their improvisations and there \vas a tremendously
strong correlation. So what I' n1 getting at is it seems that even though with
jazz we are improvising we're spontaneously we"re creating and arranging,
we seem to be walking on garden stones in a way. We sort of know in ajazz
progression what's coming up next. This music doesn't have that is that what
I'lTI hearing you saying?
L. Yeah more or less. Jazz or you know, jazz or any norn1al type of n1usic it's
got whether or not you know what notes you're going to play there's a set
time and tonality and tonal frmTIework. Whereas with this you don't know
\vhafs around the bend. With jazz you know what tones are going to sound
123
good and what tones you can stay on for them next measure. Whereas with
this stuff I even think it can be defined or exist.
B. Thank you very much.
IntervieW#2, Guitarist
B. I am now speaking with the guitar player and as I said before this interview is
being done as part of gathering information for my project aimed at
gaining insight into creative processes of classically and jazz trained student
musicians as we come grips with lTIusic of an improvisational nature as we
come to grips with an ensemble composed of people from many disciplines.
If you were to step back in time to the first to the first minute I handed the
music out at the first rehearsal before we played a note, then like book mark
that minimize that and come forward to tonight and now blow them up and
split screen and see if there is any way you could con1pare and contrast
change progress continuity.
N. Well before we were, kind of hard to do. Well I suppose there is change in
that rve played it now and I sort of knew what to expect. I think I was 1little
intimidated a first. And this time I came into to it with a lot more a lot
more ideas and ways in which could vary my tone or the nature of the
improv'. Thafs pretty hard to do.
B. I appreciate you trying to do it. If any of these questions t\\i'eak you later
maybe make notes on the little pads or bring it next time or just leave it on
the pad. How is the experience of working in this ensemble with people frOlTI
124
many perspectives we have people who are really jazz people that are
n10re rock people that are classical people that are n10re popular and some of
us that have lots of different influences. How is that going what is that like?
N. I think it \vorks well but I think that when people hear the word in1provise
they fall back on the experience they have in different genres. Like people
with classical experience have no experience with i m p r o v ~ , it can be
interesting because they kind of have to take what they know, but I think you
can really hear when people have more experience with jazz i m p r o v ~ you can
really hear it in the scales and rhythm they use. And things like that I think
thafs a good thing in a way. But in a way it kind of takes people out of
maybe listening to what other people are doing and trying to respond to that
and Inore into a improv' mode. I noticed that son1ewhat within myself too.
Actually kind of an interesting thing I noticed that when I con1e to i m p r o v ~
just what I've been exposed to, generally a-tonal sound to it. But I started
playing major 7 arpeggios and major thirds and started minin1alizing what I
played to just 2 notes ad varying it cynarnically. I found that brought up a
mCljor chord brought out nlore contrast than anything else I was doing.
Because everyone else \vas going so far out I got back to the basic tonality
was even Inore different.
B. Even farther out really.
N. Yeah it opened up to this realization that people go crazy too but you can't
forget about the fact to son1e extent people like n1usic because ifs pretty and
125
it sounds nice. And in that sense also, like dissonance and a-tonality and
all that fast tempos and become grating and nonnal sounding and become
\vhat people ere trying to get away from in the first place. Which is
normality,so to bring it back to a major chord or sonle thing like that is sort of
refreshing. It's kind what I noticed tonight. I guess that kind of speaks to
styles what people are exposed to .It kind of opened a door for me tonight
that it doesn't to be from Mars to be good improv'.
B. During the interviews tonight I heard some things that kind of give nle
directions to go and I'm going to try SOlne open you to get some response to
you. Culls down to responses to each of the pieces what kind of interpretive
messages people feel in the nlusic and then feel come forth fro themselves
and then from the group. A pretty layered question .Can you reflect on that
do you have different takes on each one of the pieces and do they lead you in
different directions?
N. Yeah I definitely try to use the shapes of the lines or the verse and in that
sense each piece takes me in a different direction in that way. As far as the
pieces we play the 2
nd
then Tao #33 is definitely even though both that and
the first piece can be looked as that's free improv' they're really not because
they both have notation it's just not standard notation. But I definitely in that
sense they're going in different directions, I found that in the first rehearsal I
tended on the first L. T. piece J was trended to do a lot nlore listening to
what other people are doing. The Tao piece was more of a cerebral piece in
126
my own head because it seem like a l110re structured piece that the others.
And the for the last piece I tend to minimal, I mean I try to l11inil11alize it for
the speaking part and its' more in1portant then the instruments, are and the
gospel section is l110re straight forward l110re straight forward as a l11usical
style. I noticed too I've had this tendency towards minin1alism (a style which
uses looped or repeated phrases to develop the piece) so the last piece I was
playing two notes when it felt right. And I think just playing off of L. because
L. will playa lot of notes, I felt like when I was also trying to playa lot of
notes it didn't do anything it didn't set me apart. So I said alright I'll play two
notes and I feel like that set me apart. So I guess they all do take n1e in
different directions. Both the l11usic and \vhat other people are doing.
B. So do you feel. I'm trying to get at how we are processing and going forward
and a couple of the singers mentioned an en10tional: state that they felt they
dropped into, definitely different states that they dropped into. Does that
resonate with you?
N. Not really, I think that I no, I think that I definitely am enjoying it but my
mental state is kind of like it is in my whole life just kind of level. In a goes
way but I'n1 really cerebral about it I think about it I'm not really el11otional
about it. And I think part of that might have to do with the structure and it
l11ay or may not be over-thinking, like sometin1es was playing the shapes and
not thinking about the rhythn1 hits like in the 2
nd
piece I sort of kicked n1yself
be l11ad at n1yself because I may be doing free improv while it n1ay look like
127
free improv I don't really think if it like that. Because it's not I 11lean
there're notes, there's structure to it.
B. A few tinles particularly tonight found a few places \vhere in nlY o\\/n portion
of nlY attention that was still being Bill, that I thought I was going to sing a
note that was totally out and either one of you guys would play it or the
singers would sing it. We would spontaneously create a chord or texture. For
me that's a breakthrough. Whatever chaos theory is involved in this that was
a breakthrough, did you experience anything like that?
N. Yeah, that exact same thing. Coming out of playing a whole tone scale
sonlething totally difIerent than what everybody else was doing but landing
on a note as the same time as S. sitting next to me. She'll hit the exact sanle
note that for me is probably the emotional side of this. It feels like a magical
thing when that happens, or I'll start a run and it will be the exactly same
thing that she does, simultaneously. But at the same time have to \vonder if
t h a t ~ isn't some kind of subconscious ear of nle or the other person picking up
on what they're doing and leading there. Like if that person is playing a
major scale say, and I'm not even listening very closely and I hear where it is
going subconsciously and just go there. For with me and L. where we linked
up was on the first piece that was somewhat notated and I think that me and
him would fall into a rhythm with it and be playing a little bit. Which is not
necessarily a bad thing it kind if speaks to the even thought you're trying to
128
play apart from everyone else you're the human brain just wants to latch
onto something else ~ .
B. Comnlunicate.
N. Yeah, it's like we're talking the same language or sonlething.
B. I d o n ~ t know if I Inentioned d or not nut I'm doing a lot of reading for my
literature review for this project and I'm coming up with some interesting
stuff. One of the things I've conle up with is it seenlS like the same part of the
brain that infants use to become aware of others out there and I can make
thenl do what I want when I do this, and begin to communicate, either
screaming, jabbering. Those same portions appear to be if not the SaIne parts
of the brain very closely related to the parts of the brain that are used to
in1provise. Does that ring a bell or resonate or seenl not to ring a bell or
resonate?
N. Well I don't know. I suppose when I improvise I think really hard sonletimes
I think too hard because I don't think of myself as competent enough as an
inlproviser at this point to just let it go. I really am intentional with what I
play. Especially if there's a chord progression or something. I hear in my
head what notes I want to play and I get mad at myself. And it seelns in this
context too I know what I want to play. Maybe I think about it too hard
sometilnes. But I guess I can't say it comes fornl one place or the other.
B. It's an odd question...
N. No, I understand it I just don~ t know if I can say definitely one or another,
129
B. There's no right or wrong I 'm just looking for an answer.
N. It's probably true I know studies have been done but I can't verify that I
suppose.
B. It brings to mind for me that Louis Arn1strong was known as America's Jazz
An1bassador to the world. And it makes sense to me that people who have
had to learn to communicate in another way would be people you would want
to send out to communicate in different ways because they're used to
in1provising. I don't know ifit's appropriate for me to do this or not but one
of the other things I found that bought me great joy was dissertation fron1 a
dissertation of a Doctorial candidate from Finland, It was a study of tonal
choices in musical improvisations. What this person did was to take a bunch
of chord types and played all 12 tones and asked thelTI to rate thelTI as to
\vhich was the most fit note the for that chord type, played the chord played
the tones, played the chord and played the tone and
N. Play the same chord and play the chromatic tones over it?
B. Yeah and they did and then she took some living jazz n1usicians and asked
them to play over rhythn1 changes and broke the cords do\vn and asked them
to make their choices and listed the tones they thought would be right and she
cOlnpared the two. She also did son1e chord progression parts of progressions
and asked the people what chords they thought it would go to next at the turn
around and 2, 5, 1s she graphed both sets together and they were really close.
So what she was trying to get at was while jazz improvisers do spontaneously
130
create their improvisation they all know ahead of time the tones they're
going with. And people listen for certain ways .The music we're doing now
doesn't really have that as a given that it's going to go any certain way Is that
how do you think that affects you performance/ N. I think I play totally freely
and if there's any connect to anyone else its' momentary a best, or otherwise
within what I'n1 playing as far as coming back and doing it as a variation or
sOlnething But as far as yeah what I'm used to ilnprovising on chord tone I
can totally relate to that saying yeah. I know what scale I want to use on these
two, bars, that's not here tall.
N. It's totall y different but at the same time today I was finding that I don't
necessarily like it more free I found that it was imposing structure on myself.
Because I like it better that way, it's still improvisation but n10re structures.
Because randoln noted don't appeal to me Inuch anymore I used to like then1
but that's why I was really liking the major chords because they're so
grounded.
B. So I hear you saying that you're kind playing off of that randomness., by
in1posing that.
N. Totally, I think that if everybody else was playing C major I n1ight want to
go play like F# n1ajor.
B. Gypsy mixolodian n1inor (Beautiful and obscure eastern European sound
frame)
131
N. It'd just it's almost overwhelming the dissonance of it all, but I think
that's also a reflection of the past 4 months for me. I nlean my senior project
was incredibly dissonant I mean beyond musical dissonance even because it's
noise, and I burned out on it. I've been playing Bluegrass like a fiend
(traditional Appalachian folk Inusic very simple and linear form) And that's
like Illajor, I guess Iny brain is in an odd spot and that's got to be taken into
consideration too.
B. Is there anything that has popped up in your brain that you wanted to chime
on or that you wrote a note that you want to talk about?
N. The notes I wrote tonight I just feel like I got a lot of good idea s for
improvising from that. I mean that it's just like astonishing the sinlplicity of
the Inajor chord or the major yd. melody against that kind of a-tonality
background is powerful. And then also, I was realizing how important in
improvisation rhythmic and dynmnic variance is I think that gets pushed to
the wayside too. Especially when people get thinking too n1uch about chord
tones. Or what note s they nleant to hit next I think people have this natural
tendency to fall into rhythms so much of especially dynamically we just sort
of hit a dynamic level the whole time, I think the piece would be. I was trying
to translate the shapes dynan1ically I would play just one note and try to play
the shapes with dynamics instead. I think that's something that gets
overlooked in improvisation and music in general actually for that nlatter.
132
People just, you can playa major scale and n1ake it beautiful really if you
just think about every note.
B. Son1e thing that didn't happen tonight it didn't happen the first night it
happened the night you were unable to attend. The singers did not
disassen1ble the text and improvise the words I don't know \vhy, I did some.
N. I like it when it happens.
B. I like it too, it's challenging for me too because I have listened to and
performed this type of music for 17 years and that LTP was one of the first
pieces I ever heard performed. It was at the Seattle Opera house at the
Bun1pershoot Festival, 1,500 people or more in the room and my teacher was
on stage a group of the faculty. Gary Peacock on bass, Gerry Granelli on
drulns, Jay Clayton on vocals. When they did the free music I was up on one
of those little seats up on the side that only holds a few people.
N, The balcony?
B. Yeah, private boxes, I couldn't believe it. I kept thinking someone is going to
come out there and boy oh boy somebody' s going to be mad about that. I
remember it was just like somebody ripped lny head open about the amount
of freedon1 I had just seen demonstrated.! could hardly believe that they
could get up and do that. What is it like to step into a space that has no
parameters?
B. Fun, it's great .In son1e ways I aln10st want to stop and impose structure on it
because it's frustration but it's cool because it's absolute freedom. You can
1" .J.J
just do what you want and I was thinking this I probably the least nervous
r II be in a performance because you can't screw up. And that's cool and not
to take away fronl anyone's ability but apart form you we're all fairly
inexperienced nlusician just because of our age it's a given. We just don't
have that much experience I would like to have heard those guys Inusic
faculty with a lot of experience and knowledge, it would be. I think what
we're doing sounds like a bunch of people who are not really improvising. I
didn't hear the piece when you did, but I can imagine that it would have been
quite different. I think that it would probably be more improvisationaly
gifted. Not gifted but experienced people \\/ho have done it for a long time get
that good ear and they can really talk to each other and I don't I think that's'
one of the things that's missing. For some reason and rve been talking to
people and I was explaining it to M. (Student) and she asked what style is it?
I said free ilnprov', irs not a style, you play shapes in whatever styles you
know. It was like a new thing for her, for some reason if s not new to nle I
ways knew it was there. I started listening to John Coltrane when I was 12 I
was aware that people did things like this r d like to keep doing this some
way or another. r d like to hear all voices to do it because I really like hearing
what they're doing the harmonies and all so.
B. Thank you.
134
Interview'#3, Guitarist 4-10-04
B. I am interview'ing the guitarist. This is the after performance interview.
How do you feel about what happened at the perforn1ance?
N. It felt good. I was, even thought I said I wouldn't be nervous at alL and I
wasn't before hand, but surprisingly ... Like when I was playing I was
flubbing some notes because there was some nerves going on. You know
there were people there and I said before you couldn't screw up, I had son1e
ideas of what I wanted to do so it is possible to screw up I guess. But it was
good. And then \vhen I was doing the gospel part the audience clapping in a
different rhythn1 than us and I think even the performers were in slightly
different rhythlTIs and I just couldn't lock in on chords, and so I was trying to
play son1e solo lines
But for son1e reason I just couldn't get the spirit and I was kind of
disappointed about. But there were tilTIes ...
B. I thought there \vere some real good lTIOments.
N. I think it sounded great over all I just felt that I was lacking on that part.
But. ..
B. Well as an artist I don't know' if you find this to be true but I SeelTI to be n1Y
own harshest critic. It just seen1S to be part and parcel to the whole creative
process.
135
If you were going to speak to son1e one maybe SOlneone who was here
tonight maybe a, that's a younger 11lusician how would you describe your
process in getting a hold of this music in preparing for perforn1ance?
N. Wow. Well the first time I saw it was just kind of like exploration, just trying
some ideas. I missed the 2
nd
rehearsal unfortunately, the yd rehearsal I was
taking SOllle of the ideas I had come up with and still developing thein. And
now in the performance still developing them. But I think that on of the
things even though you might think of it as a free improv it isn't necessarily
negative to put some structure in it. Sure or some preplanned ideas into it and
it's ahnost inevitable that if you play the piece more than once son1e of the
ideas are going to carryover.
B. So I think \vhat I'n1 hearing you saying is that as you progressed in this
process you developed your own dialogue with the n1usic (yeah!) your own
vocabulary?
N. Yeah definitely. And I played around some, but first like on the Tao 33 piece
like at first I had some of the pieces some of the shapes representing what the
Inelody would do. Then I would try it out with that maybe representing
rhythn1ically then I would try it out with volull1e as well. So I tried it out
used the uh. let the n1usic represent different things also. Because it was open
to that it was possible
B. What did you find to be both the biggest plus in performance tonight and the
biggest hurdle/obstacle/wall?
136
N. I think the plus was like the audience like both of them. The plus is like
the energy pf the audience and feeding off the energy of that and kno\Ning
someone was listening to it besides the performers. Son1eone was going to
get something out of it who isn't involved in this so they were gone take
away a whole rather than their part and the whole. And then at the same tin1e
the audience was a detriment in that it's kind of in your lTIind and keeps you
frolll letting go completely. Because you have nerves and there's really no
way around it. So I think that was that answers both pf thelll. The audience
that was it.
B. Okay, is this something that you would be interested in doing more of?
N. Yeah.
B. Can you talk about why you would be interested in doing more?
N. Well I feel like even through these tree times playing it developed it becallle
less, less of a completely, I guess you could say random, less of a randOlTI
piece and more of a group effort to make one piece of lllusic. Rather than six
people making their own individual pieces of music. Especially the first oh,
all the pieces just came together more in like a cohesive form. So in that
sense I think it would be fun to do it more even with other people. Because
I've experienced it and 0 think that I just like the sounds that come out I just
like the ideas. And if you do this enough there are going to be some of the
greatest lllusical monlents you could achieve. Just a matter of doing it
enough times to actually get that moment.
137
B. To follow up on some thing you just said. It is true that each ensemble of
people brings something completely new to the table. You know we could
turn around now in n1Y experience, and pull up a whole other ensen1ble and
just you and I be the same and do the same n1aterial and even if we atten1pted
to lead. by the nature of the compositions the most we could do is to kind of
suggest because we'd be at the n1ercy of what ever anyone else brought up.
N. Yeah. it would be. while it wouldn't be cOlnpletely different it would be
quite a bit. AssUlning that all the musicians are listening really closely to
what each other are doing and responding to that. it would completely change
the character. Because you don't have the same conversation with one person
and then go talk to someone else and have the exact san1e conversation .In
general and that's exactly what it is .I n1ean assun1ing that you are responding
to your instrun1ent.
B. It's interesting to hear you say the conversation part, can you elaborate on
that?
Do you see a similarity between a spoken word conversation and
in1provisational conversation?
N. Well yeah, in both you're processing sound. The musical sound is more
son1e would say I guess n10re abstract, or possibly less abstract than words.
but both of them it's sound going in your ear, being processed by your brain,
and con1ing back out through your body. And in the case of a singer it's
COIning back out through your mouth so it's almost exactly like singing. And
138
for instrumentalists there's one other piece of you know, furniture between
you and the sound. But it's still hearing a sound and responding with a sound
in a language that you've learned.
B. Do you think that, how do you think the Inultiple disciplines of the
perforn1ers effected the performance? Or do you think it was an effect, I'n1
just curious?
N. I don't know .I'd have to do the pieces with other people who have different
backgrounds before I cloud answer that question I think. Because I couldn't I
n1ean you could hear jazzy parts, I could definitely hear things that were
influenced by jazz, so I guess in that sense it did but I don't know if I could
hear any other like if I could say a classical influence specifically. So I guess
son1e\vhat it did but at the same tin1e it's not. It didn't really because
ultin1ately \vhen you take out the definite rhythm and the definite scales out
of the n1usic you're just dealing with 12 notes. And it's inevitable that it's
going to be there without a genre.
B. I want to thank you for your participation are there any other questions or
con1ments you'd like to make?
N. I'd like to interview the audience (yeah 1'n1 curious too) And I Inean son1e
honest interviews to see what they really think, not just with polite clapping
but with people like, 'that's a sham, you guys are just up there messing
around ,or if they're like "wow that's got some real artistic merit'. I'd like to
kno\v how people really respond to for lack of a better term, 'cutting edge
139
avante garde music is really interesting because it strikes people in such
opposite ways.
B. Thaf s a fair observation and what little I could see of the audience because
of the lighting, there were some stunned faces out there .It looked to n1e like
there \vere moments of almost stunned disbelief at the sounds we were
making. (UhIn), and the form of the music. Do you think that had an effect on
you as a perfonner?
N. I didn't see their faces. But I suppose if there were son1e kind of brain waves
coming at me, yeah, it would've affected Ine.
B. Thanks.
Intervie\N#3. Pianist
So this is the after performance interview and I'm speaking with the
keyboard player. How did you feel about tonight's performance?
L. I thought it went really well. Un1, I don't know I guess I felt a little bit
nervous, that you know how well it would be accepted. How \vell all, of us
\vould be listening to each other. Because things are always different when
you perform for people, but I think it went really well.
B. I appreciate that and I'm going to probe here, by going well, what would
differentiate that from not going well, or from going kind of \vell? If we put it
on a scale of 1 - 5, 1 being the pits and 5 being penuitilnate, where would we
have landed tonight? Like \ve put it on a scale of 1-1 O/(you could put it 1-10
or 1-5) I would give us a 3 112 .
140
B. That's pretty good.
L. It felt really good I felt that it could have been a lot better. There definitely
could have been n10re listening. I guess the only way it could have been
horrible and the pits would have been if there was total disregard for any of
the concepts presented or any of the guidelines. If we had all chosen to ignore
the rhythm hits and just sort of all gone where we wanted. it would all still
sort of sound like random music but it wouldn't have the san1e shape and
those ideas. the accents and the little unintentional rhythm interlocking that
was going on, wouldn't have taken place.
B. If you were going to speak to a younger musician, say a high school musician
someone who would be graduating this year or someone in their first year of
school here at (institution's name deleted) how would you describe what the
process was like from the first time you looked at the n1usic to having done a
performance?
L. I would say that obviously going into it the fIrst tine it was obviously foreign
unless you had experience playing it which none of us had. So I would say
that it's just you know very awkward and at first seeing it. But it's intriguing
you know, it's sOlnething that you just get grabbed into right away. You gotta
test the water to see how cold it is. It starts to get warmer, you know it was
we all ha d cold feet at first we stmied warming up. The second rehearsal we
were all pretty n1uch conlfortable and opening up a little lTIOre you kno\v and
started listening The third rehearsal we did even more of that and then finally
141
we're here. I don't know if it was better or if it was worse, I couldn't
really hear everybody individually, all I could hear was the whole .So I think
that is a good thing and I think that, urn, at first it was more of an individual
thing, where you know you're trying to ... Whenever I think about the music
too much instead of just doing it I run into trouble, and so the evolution frOITI
the first rehearsal to now is I think, a testament of you can evolve and change
n1usically through practice. Through getting n10re con1fortable with concepts
and pieces, just how people who read, people who read music you know they
have to develop their motor memory, and their muscle n1en10ry before they
can play the piece straight through with no problen1s. And usually \vhen they
actually have learned the piece they've played it so n1any times to get it
ingrained in their muscle memory that they don't even need the music and
that's where I believe we should have been. But frOITI the evolution of, frOITI
the passing in between, I believe that we've all grown con1fortable whereas in
the first rehearsal we all looked at this and just said are you crazy? It works it
really can work and I think tonight was proof so I would say is I were trying
to explain this I guess I would sun1marize by saying you know it's not your
typical n1usic but it will help you becon1e a better musician if you live up to
the challenge. Just because it's like any other n1usic in that you have to
practice it , get used to it then it starts to 111ake more sense. And soon it's
easy.
142
B. Something came up in the other interview I've done this evening was the
aspect of developing your own vocabulary and of the ensemble developing a
vocabulary. How do you think, does that resonate with you? If so could you
con1pare it with the process of learning a language?
L. Sure, I Inean urn. I would say that an individual vocabulary is all just little
tricks, trills and scales and knowledge of knowing where to go. Harmony,
theory all that stuff, runs licks what ever you want to call it. if s always good
to have a stock vocabulary whenever you do things like this where musicians
interact musically. I guess you have lots of sharing, I'll share son1e of my
vocabulary you show me son1e of yours so on and so forth. It's like language
if you were learning if you never heard a word before if somebody else
kno\vs or a way of questioning or a street slang just sOlnething to get you by
on the street. You share these words you share these bits of knowledge you
start to pick up on others around you especially language and musically as
well. I lived with son1eone for over 3/4s of a year and after he left he said
whenever I played music I always find your style of blues and funk and
everything else we had been through. I was in a band with hin1 as well and
it's the same thing if you do. I've been on vacation in New York and it can
even work with dialects. It doesn't have to be language I can1e back talking
like" hey pass me the pizza I'ln starving over here". And ifs not son1ething
you can say Oh my God, but different accents stmi to rub off on you. And
even the attitude of the culture. Obviously music art business anything any
143
action that somebody else can duplicate if you're around people enough
you're going to want to behave that way. It's not something we consciously
do it's something that happens, I believe. I believe that you could COlTIpare it
to more than just a language and say that the blending of people's vocabulary
an the growih that happens as a unit because of our individual vocabularies
meshing, urn, can be con1pared to any action by an individual that can also be
converted into group activity. Or looked at as a group activity.
B. Thank you that was very rich. I liked a lot of what you said there. I w'as going
to ask the question, which may be a little redundant, how do you think the
multiple disciplines of people tonight effected the performance and the
preparation?
L. Uh, I lTIean you got your people who are more reading what's on the page
oriented, you know show me some tTIusic and I can do it. And then you have
people like me who if you show me notes on a page I would rather look at
symbols and you know interpret those symbols into n1usic, tTIusic that I
\vould, I like to interpret those symbols through n1Y soul. I like to play what I
feel and where I think the music should go and how it should sound for that
specific guideline. In Jazz, you know D7, can mean a lot of things whereas in
classical, you know most of the singers just read notes. A lot of the times and
play w'hat they have to. But then every singer I'd have to imagine spends a
fair mTIount of time, I know I do and I don't even sing, listening tom their
favorite singer your favorite song or what ever and singing along with it or
144
nlaking up a totally different harnl0ny to go with it, or when the guitar
solo con1es just singing your own solo along with that. So I'ln sure
everybody has had experience improvising so I don't necessarily know that it
would we be hard for me to believe that the singers were that n1l1ch more
uncomfortable that I was doing this. Because singing is the most
improvisational of all instruments that I can see, because if s your voice, you
can do a million things with your voice. You can do as much with your voice
as you can with a $ 5,000.00 keyboard .I guess I've digressed a little bit from
where the question is. (Hey ifs what ifs about where you go is where it
should go.) Could you restate it?
B. I'm just looking to see if you thought there was any effect on the product.
Tonight's product, tonight's performance brought about by the different
disciplines or not? I think what I hear you saying is that no matter what
disciplines people conle from we would all have our ovvn vocabularies
anyway, is that what you're saying?
L. But there's, say if you, all of us have experience improvisational foundations
for some of if s way more tonal and some of us less, dissonance, or overtones
or jazz tones ifs just color tones as they're referred to in jazz. Some people
improvise more on a scale mode and stay inside the "box" and some people
are trying to go outside, I think that doing this helped bring me into a box and
it also helped me stay out to give it the drive and the edge I felt it should
have, for music that's this weird conceptually you novv I didn't think that
145
there should be any set tonal base and I tried to stay away frOlTI any as best
as I could. But, un1, you know that's lTIy interpretation of what I though this
lTIusic should be. So had you had a classical keyboardist do this you
obviously would have ended up with SOlTIe thing different. Without a doubt
just from hearing the ideas fron1 the other pianist who was in here right
before the show. You guys were running through Long Tone Poem and I
heard what she was doing, based in classical very different frOlTI what I
would have played. But I also heard her hitting jazz chords and I know that
she does know a decent an10unt ofjazz theory and I saw connections you
know. I believe that everybody sort of feels things the san1e or not the same
but just variation s of the same thing. Lots of people hear certain, hear where
rhythm should hit or where certain notes should go and I don't know \vhere I
heard this it could have been from you or Dan Aldag. (Jazz Professor at the
University) If you took the mean average of what the audience of the note or
the place or the rhythlTI of where the audience thinks it will land on and
compare it to where the famous jazzes go or where the most famous n1usic
goes it usually lines up with what people expected. So the ear and the body
wants to play things a certain way I believe and you can sort of tune in to that
or just not acknowledge it or fight it. But I believe that ton1 play music like
this you have to do a little bit of both. Because it's not totally natural.
B. I want to thank you for your participation.
146
Here's one of those comments now, would you be interested in doing this
kind of music again?
L. Yeah definitely, it's a fun form of music and like I said I think it can only
help to expand a lTIusician's horizons, which would inevitably make you a
more versatile, diverse renaissance lTIusician .
(At this point we were packing his equipn1ent and just talking and L. asked to
talk on tape again about the lTIusic.)
Adendun1, Pianist
L. Backing up a second to what you said 40 seconds ago of just if that's what
you're feeling then it's your job as the artist or lTIusician or filmn1aker to put
that elTIotion out there for the world. It's a wonderful what a wonderful world
it is, it is a wonderful world but there's a lot of disturbing, chaotic, urn, just
bad, bad things that go on this Earth, and bad, bad things that go on with
social interaction. Bad things that happen between people that you know, and
that's a reality. Our job as aIiists and people who express and entertain is to
make people feel that uncomfortable reality. Because a lot of people usually
go through life ignoring it.
And so it's good to throw it in people's faces through art when you feel the
need to, because if you're feeling it that means that it definitely exists. And
n1aybe it's selfish to force other people to feel that way too, but I don't think
so. I feel that everybody needs to feel uncomfoliable because there's a lot's
lots of people feeling uncOlTIfortable for unnecessary reasons. And lots of bad
147
horrible things that happen for unnecessary reasons and that can all be
expressed through literature, movies. And like, I don't know through films
like Requien1 for a Dream, Eraser head, weirdo movies like that they're
disturbing . You \valk away from it and you shake a little, and you say I can't
believe I just sat through this, but you couldn't turn away. And that's what I
think some of this music is doing, yeah it irritates people but you'd be
surprised how many people stayed just because it irritates thein. So...
B. Thank you very much.
IntervieW#3, singer#2
B. I am interviewing with the soprano singer) How do you think it went?
C. I thought it went very well .I felt like we all came together even more, urn,
solidly than our last rehearsal. I just felt like we were all just really in sync'
tonight.
B. I guess one of the questions I've been asking everybody is, if you were going
to speak to a younger musician who was here tonight say somebody in high
school getting ready to graduate. Or SOlneone who's in their first year here in
the university, how would you describe for theln what was the process of
preparing this n1usic and then it was like? If they asked you 'how did you do
that?' what would you tell them?
C. I think that describing the process would be from the beginning just
becoming familiar with what this kind of music felt like to do. Kind of on an
individual basis even though we were all doing it together, at least for Ine, I it
148
was more individual at first like I was trying to familiarize myself with the
music. And then once I had done that it kind of opened up and then it became
familiarizing myself not just with the music as it was portrayed, how I \vas
trying to interpret it but also how it felt to be singing with everybody else.
And how that was supposed to fit together with all these people with different
backgrounds it finally evolved into this, urn. you know, into what it turned
into tonight, which I don't really kno\v how to describe. It was just like big
musical organism, you know working together. Whereas in the beginning it
was kind of individual and (I coughed and apologized to her) that's alright.
At the end it was like we were all one.
B. I feel you on that. There's son1ething that happens in this kind of n1usic
that's. almost like, it is like another part of consciousness where we, in as
much as it's not notated, the fact that we stop and start together (Yeah!) It
seemed to hit an inordinate anlolmt of harn10nies runs and chord tones
together. (Yeah!) Again did you think that tonight was, how was tonight
different from the last rehearsal?
C. I think it just went up another level. Urn. I felt like there was a greater
amount of interaction between everybody tonight. And. I'm just trying to
figure out how to describe it. It felt more cohesive. I guess. urn and from my
perspective it just seemed to flow. I didn't have as many thoughts, conling in
and inhibiting the creative process like I did at first. I had all these things
coming at n1e, like you can't do that', and, 'oh yikes', and' careful'. And so
149
all those inhibitions were just gone tonight there was nothing there it was
just being a part of son1ething larger than yourself. Without any of those little
nagging voices of music instructors over the years.
B. I know what you mean. I had an Austrian voice teacher once and both of his
boys were musicians that went on to work for symphonies and what not. He
was a wonderful teacher, but, boy oh boy, he would just. I don't know what
he would think of this tonight. (Ha!) It was alive and here now, I don't know
what he would have thought of this tonight. He either would have really
loved it or just been one of those was offended. Now, following up on that
idea I had an interesting thing come up with both L. and N. in the interview.
Son1e parts of this music definitely I could read a few of the faces in the
audience, it seemed top really disturb them. How did that feel you make
sounds that n1aybe wouldn't make people necessarily dance to it, or play it at
their wedding, or that kind of thing?
C. Well the funny thing was usually, the feeling if this performance4 was
different than anything I've ever done before, because usually I am thinking
about what the audience is going to think. And so you get this kind of
nervousness like 'oh what if I do son1ething wrong. But with this I felt like it
was just something that was our creation that 'Ne were sharing, and it didn't
matter of they didn't like it or not. It didn't n1atter if they were grooving to it
or if it was disturbing them, it was us n1aking this creative entity and we were
150
sharing it with them, but, and so they could take from it what they wanted,
but it wasn't there in order to please theln.
B. Yeah, well said. (thank you) Yeah and that's a different thing too and those
who will see this data in the education department and aren't musicians can't
know that unless we say that .A lot of time as artists what we get stuck doing
is pleasing people. (yeah) You know, and I think that something else happens
when we take the chance to make music that goes beyond that paradigm
that's entertainInent and begins to delve into self-exploration, musical
exploration. It kind of calls on the audience in a creation was to be involved
intellectually with what you're doing. (right) And the other thing is it doesn't
always or even in some of the pieces, drop into a place where they expect it
to go. It's not, we don't know where it's going in a way. I n1ean it sounds to
them like we've got it all planned out, and we do have some rough structures,
but we don't necessarily know where it's going. And it's a very unusual
experience for n1usicians to sit down and make n1usic together that is an
exploration of the music and an exploration of our own musicality, as \vell as
developing an ensemble vocabulary. Is this something that you would be
interested in doing more of?
C. Yes, it is . Which actually surprises me because first coming into it , it was
so foreign to me . I was excited to try son1ething new, but I didn't know if it
was something that, it was so new and so , you know ,apart fro where I've
been before, that I was excited to explore it . but I really didn't what to
151
expect; if it was going to be son1ething that I would want to do again. But
it definitely is it was an amazing experience.Just totally different than
anything musical I'd ever done.
B. Well I have to say as a composer and an improviser myself it's always a little
\veird when I kind of take the gloves off. and I felt like on the 3rd piece, to
All leaders , there wasn't anyone in the roon1 that didn't know where I was
COIning from politically on that one, not a lot of aInbiguity there. I sometilnes
hesitate, I suppose I shouldn't, especially in a place like (Humboldt) I hesitate
to really express myself. Forn1 me it was both invigorating getting ready to
sing that piece and to realize. I n1ean, we're talking in that piece' Flies on
their eyes, and women and children and babies lying around dead, and it's the
stuff that the ilnbedded reporters in this latest game are not showing us.
We're not seeing dead people, we're not even seeing wounded people, and so
for n1e as a con1poser, I actually carried this piece in n1 y pocket for 9 months
before I typed it out and got ready to present it to you guys. I carried it with
me that long because it just burned in me to express the horror of it you
know? And I felt the other side (I'ln Inentating on this and it's probably
outside of my work here) I felt the need to. If this is wrong, okay then what
do we do? It really comes down for n1e to telling the truth and living in that
truth. Because if we live in the truth a lot of crap falls away. You don't even
have to stop thinking about the other crap, just doing the truth, that's all you
have time for. So for me it was kind of risky to do, that piece. Did you feel
152
anything in any of the pieces that you felt like, personally vulnerable, or at
risk or, and say yes or no. If you didn't that's cool'
C. I don't think there was anything where I felt vulnerable, and nlaybe that's
because I felt cOlnfortable with everybody I was working with, and because
rve reached the point where rm pretty comfortable with myself as a
musician. And so I think if maybe I wasn't at that point I nlight have had
moments like that .If I wasn't working with this particular group of people I
might have. But I didn't really feel like I was, you know, vulnerable to
anything, I felt really comfortable opening up and sharing.
B. Thank you very much.
IntervieW#3. singer# 1
B. This interview is with the alto singer, S. How do you feel tonight's
perfornlance went?
S. Urn, I feel like it went really well, everyone was ... (her cell phone went off
and she took a moment to check-in.)
B. If you were going to talk to a younger nlusician, say son1eone came up to you
after the perfornlance and they were like high school age or first year here at
the university, and they asked you "how did you do that. how did you guys
do that?" what would you talk to theln? How would you explain the process?
S. Urn, rd probably explain it a s , j u s t ~ it's just your own interpretation a
simultaneous interpretation of what is placed in front of you. There are
guidelines so it's not totally abstract. but urn. Everyone is going to see things
153
just a little bit differently even with guidelines so you just what ever
comes to your mind just let it conle out, I guess.
B. A couple of things came up in the other interviews and I'm going to try and
follow up on a little bit. One of them was the idea that we made sounds
tonight that we knew as trained lnusicians would have low entertainment
value, in tenns of pleasing people with familiar melodies and familiar
concepts and lengths of ideas. and rhythms and patterns they could but into:
\vhat was that experience like of, of improvising in ways that you knew as,
like I say as a developed artist yourself that were outside of that usual
function of nlusicians? You know, entertainment, weddings and parties and
Bar lnitzvahs.
S. I was actually talking to sonlebody after the perfornlance, about how I would
have liked to be part of the audience, and at the Salne tilne as being a
performer- to experience both sides of the climb. Because I think that
performing the music was really exciting, and even though L coming into this
I knew this was something people weren't used to hearing. And so maybe not
quite as easy listening that people are used to. But urn, even con1ing into this
knowing that I still had a lot of fun performing it. But I had a feeling, it
wouldn't be, that making the music was probably more satisfying than
listening to the music. But even knowing that, I was still extremely satistied
and had a lot of fun creating it, if that makes sense.
154
B. Yeah, I hear you. One of the other things thafs come up a couOle of times
was, a correlation bet\veen this and, possible correlation, I'n1 not trying to
lead you to getting the answer I'm looking for, because whatever you say is
data and equal, do you resonate with the idea of this correlating \vith
language, learning to speak a language? Did you see sin1ilarities, if so could
you give me a couple of similarities, or if not, give me the contrast.
S. I wouldn't necessarily say ifs similar to learning a language in that. UlTI,
there's a lot more structure to language learning. There are, I mean we had
guidelines, but they're as a, possible linguistics major, urn, languages have
urn, a much more, there's a lot more structure to how it should be done than
this. Because this is more of an interpretation and if every body went around
and just interpreted 'language I think it would be hard to comn1unicate. (It
would be different huh? laughter) it would be a lot lTIOre interesting. We
wouldn't have, probably be quite a few miscommunications. In that respect I
don't think ifs like learning a language .On the other hand learning a
language, especially as a child, you glean from other people. You listen and
you kind of reiterate in you own way, you kind of test out the waters with
your own voice, you know, with your own voice, and your own instrul11ent,
to create a language and you have to kind of test it out. And growing up you
start \vith something very small and you only have a few words even to base
your communication on. But the more you talk the more you learn the more
expan " I guess you can COll1111unicate more in depth. I guess in that way if s
155
very sinlilar to learning nlusic. When \ve started this \vhole workshop I
really felt like I \vas staIiing with a sn1all foundation. I don't know ho\v to
explain it except that it like, this circle has gotten bigger. Like unl, like of you
drop \vater. A drop of \vater into a big, like a sonlething big like a lake, it has
a ringlet effect and it keeps on expanding. And I felt that's ho\v this kind of
lTIusic is, you start with something snlall but the nl0re that you do it it just
kind of expands, and that's how it is like a language.
B. Thank you very nluch for that beautiful picture, I like that. Are there any
other thoughts or COll1111ents that you \vould like to add to this interviev/?
S. Just that I think this is really neat \vay to connect \vith other people .Un1,
there's something about the freedom of this nlusic that allows you to, I don't
kno\v; Ineet other people \vhere they are. And to just kind of \vhat they're
feeling, yeah it's a really exciting thing because there's not really the
confines of everybody having to do a celiain thing. So you get the personal
interpretations, you kind of get to knovv a person just by how they interpret
what's in front of you?
B. Is there a type or style of 111usic you would be interested in doing more of?
S. Yeah I think so if I had the chance to do Inore I would do it again, maybe. I
\vould not confine to this kind of n1usic (exclusively?) I \vould not perform
this nlusic exclusively, but I would do it again absolutely.
B. Thank you.
156
IntervieW#3, singer#3
B. This interview is with the tenor singer, A. This is our last scheduled interview
and I wanted to ask you what was your feelings or thoughts about tonight's
perforn1ance? How do you think it went?
A. I think it went pretty well, urn, my only problen1 I think we had was with the
audience getting into the whole rhythm of last piece kind of threw us all off a
little bit. But it's improvisational so it kind of went along with the whole
purpose of everything so it didn't quite fit together but I think that was kind if
the whole point.
B. It was really interesting when we got three rhythms going and we were trying
to hang on the one. (Laughter)
A Yeah, I was trying to stay with you and you know instrumentalists off on
their own thing. And the audience was off on their own thing and it was
really interesting.
B. If a younger n1usician came up to you after the performance and said, "WO\N!
How did you guys do that?"
A \Vhat would be my response? I would say we've all studied and had
experiences and in order for us all to do this we all had to call upon those
experiences in our own lives and bring them together and collaborate and
listen to each other, put our two cents worth into the pot you know. We alL
you know, put everything that we knew together with everybody else and the
pieces of the puzzle just kind if fit together.
157
B. In terms of process, as again I'm trying to get at underlying n1ethodologies
or responses or thoughts or feelings, if you were going to talk about your
process for a minute what happened between looking at the first night and the
performance tonight, what kind of things happened for you?
A. WelL to stmi off, like I told you in previous interviews, it was very strange,
um, I wasn't really quite sure what to make of it .As we did it the first time it
just kind of started to open up doors to the kinds of expression we were
doing. And um, every time we did it, it just got easier and I knew more along
the lines of what I wanted to do with it .I didn't really know what you guys
were going to do with it because it's improvisational. (Laughs). As tilne went
along I had more of an idea of what kind of sounds I'd make and what
syllable I'd use and what I would do. And then um, so, as far as the
performance I think all the notes and the pitches and the rhythms were all
improvised, but not so much the vowels and the actual dictions and
pronunciation I used, those were kind of premeditated, (laughs) I kind of
kne\v I was going to do, and it made me feel a little more confident about
being able to perforn1 it. I think it was just, it was just knowing how the other
people I the group kind of function as musicians and feeding off of that. I
mean knowing what I think they are going to do and actually hearing what
they are doing and feeding back off of that. And running with it. And so I
think that from the beginning to now there's definitely a better understanding
158
of the musicians in the group as musicians and their capabilities and their
skills.
B Couple of things canle up during the other interviews and I want to bounce
them off you. I had son1e prepared questions and I find nlyself thinking these
are nlore interesting .Do you or do you not see, correlations between
language learning and learning this type of improvisation?
A. That's an interesting language learning and improvisationallnusic.
1'd say it's definitely something that you have to learn by doing. Kind of like
learning a language, you can learn it from a book and you can someone can
tell you how to d it, but until you actually sit down try to do it, if s not going
to be nearly as beneficial. As, I mean for instance you could take a class in
learning to speak French, until you actually go to the country and just
submerge yourself in that culture, you're never really going to learn it. Ifs
the best way to learn it is to actually. you know, jump in with both feet. And
you could have told me when you were talking about this project at the very
beginning that it was improvisational, but I got here and I thought, "this is
some hard stuff.' I mean it's, I mean granted people would say it's easy
because you can do anything you and it would be right, but that's not
necessarily true. Because there's a definitely a really involved thought
process into what we were all doing. And so I think that for us to understand
that thought process we just really all need to jump in and do it. Because
untiL from the first day I really had no idea what I was doing and now after
159
the performance I feel like "okay, I could do this again." And we could
make it better and it would be a lot more interesting, and I think, uh, Yeah I
just think yeah it is very sinlilar to, learning language.
B. Is this something you'd be interested in doing more of?
A. I ",-ould have to say yes and no. Because I find very interesting and I enjoyed
the freedom. It's a lot like scatting, minus the chord progressions and the
tempo. (Key signature, melody) Yak, key signature, melody any type of
tonality. (Laughter) It's something that I love scatting, I love to do it. And I
love that freedonl to be able to do whatever I felt I want to do. But at the
same time, it's really hard not to have any structure. Growing up and being
directed and taught in a culture musically where everything has sonle kind of
structure, it's kind of hard to let that go. And to be able to say," okay, it
doesn't nlatter if we all end together and we can all make different sounds,
it's just a hard habit to break. I would love to do it and at the sanle time it was
really kind of hard.
B. The other thing that came up talking to N, who has done some ambient music
projects that had sounds that he knew and intentionally chose to irritate
people .So tonight when we were performing, I couldn't see many of the
faces, but SOll1e of the faces were shocked at the sounds we were nlaking.
Especially until they sonle kind of a gist of a whole presentation, I saw that
look. What was that like? And digging deeper into \vhat you just said, as
musicians mostly what we do is entertain people. We do what they expect,
160
we do the songs they ask for, we play the wedding 111arches, we do Bah
mitzvahs, we Polka-barrel. Beer-barrel what ever it is they ask us to do.
Tonight we did stuff that we felt we needed to do, the way we all felt it
needed to go individually. What was that experience like to step outside of
that setting out to please your audience?
A. Well. during the performance I actually thought about that, about what the
audience was thinking about what we were doing. And I know (Prof. Name
deleted) was I was al1l10st sure that he was like cringing, I was almost
positive. I couldn't see him, the only people I could see were the four people
in the front rowan a couple of my friends were there, and I told them about
what it was going to be and so they were, I think they were kind of digging it.
I was thinking about that and I was wondering I know there's some people
out there who are loving this, and there's some people out there, you know
classically trained people are just, you know, wigging out about that. Because
it was so different, I n1ean I purposely was trying to do some quarter step
intervals just to get that whole vibration going on. And like I was saying in
that previous interview, I could actually feel it. And it was like shaking my
sternu1l1, I was trying to get that again. Maybe because of the venue I don't
think it was nearly so abundant, nearly as clear that was happening. But I
think the audience \vas, I don't know. It's hard to say without actually seeing
them but like I said before I was thinking about how they \vere reacting to it.
And just thinking about it actually kind of fueled the fire to Inake it n10re
161
annoying. (laughter) Not so much annoying, but like, uncharacteristic of
the typical western n1usician. I was trying to break through that barrio just to
me, you know, give a little more of the shock value. To the people who were
like," Oh my God, what is this about?" And to fuel the fire for the people
who do enjoy it. They'd be like "yeah, give me more, give lne more ". You
see if we would just keep it up the extren1es would be at both ends. Both
groups \vould have the extremes of pure happiness that this is happening and
pure hatred that this is happening .Not really so n1uch in the n1iddle. I think
thaf s the kind of audience reaction that we would strive for in this kind of
perforn1ance.
B. I think that's a good observation, I definitely, even thought I've been
interested in composing and performing this kind of music for 17 years. even
on the way here tonight I had trepidation towards, how would people react?
In a sense rln with ya', because if I wasn't secure enough to deal with pissing
people off, or offending people, you know. But in particularly in the yd piece,
I did have a little bit of, I don't often I guess I live in H. County I should feel
free (laughter) I don't always get that clear with my political feelings and I
don't think there was anybody in this room that didn't know which side of
the fence I was on .By the end of the first verse if s pretty clear where my
head was at.
A. "'You Lie. You Tell Lies" A slap in the face. kind of like that?
162
B. I felt that too, I had mixed feelings about an audience. There were
moments I thought on that final rehearsal that I wish we could have
transplanted to here. But there were things that happened tonight that didn't
happen before. Kind of the nature of this music is that it is different each time
you do it. I want to thank you for your participation, is there anything else
you would like to say or add?
A. Not really interesting. If you did do another study like this down the road if
you would video tape the audience. You know, get the visual reactions of the
audience to, I Inean I know you handed out the paper, that was a great idea. I
saw there was a lot of people \\'ho actually took the paper and made a written
response to it. But I think it would be really interesting to get a visible
response to it.
B. I ran into a thing on the visual when I asked for pennission to use human
subjects of the University Graduate Review Board .My chair person, well
both my committee people said it was such a can of worms for liability and
for data, so open to interpretation since this \vas my first you now. this is my
Master's, I want to be really clear. So I didn't do the visual thing.(yeah) But I
had some of the same feelings .I guess you have to do son1e sort of a read out
loud and everyone has to sigh off as they were coming the door. Because I
think that there is a ... it would almost be fun to have some screens up and
playback their own faces, you know in a minimalistic way, you know? Like
163
the people saw that were shocked if you played that back to them how
would they react to their own shock?
A. That would be, in my opinion I think that would be a great piece actually. Is
to have the, somehow the first piece is recorded, certain people in the
audience were recorded and then by the last piece n1aybe do a slide show
thafs projected up. And then singers will take their reactions to what they se
on the screen and turn it into music.
B. That's brilliant, I like that.
A. You know some of the people in the audience will actually get to hear a
n1usical reaction to their reaction to the first piece.
A. I like that a lot. That's very, very nice.
Student Journal Entries
Singer #2
C 2-24-04. LTP-I felt afraid to sing out and wasn't using very good vocal
technique at first. I waited for others to transition into sections because I was
afraid to go first. I felt like I would be more confident if I had this piece
memorized and could interact more with everyone else. It felt a little lonely
with lin1ited eye contact. I enjoyed the freedom this piece allo\ved but was
also a bit intimidated by it. I'm excited to try it again.
Structured improv.-I still have an initial fear of being wrong. While I had a
lot of fun with it once I eased into it.
164
C 3-27-04-LTP. I felt much more connected to the rest of the ensenlble this
time. I felt like we were closer to being one organisn1 than individuals
singing at the same tilne. I tried to key into the flow of the improv. section
and contribute a little bit. I still think I'ln thinking too hard.
Tao 33- I worried on this one because I wanted to end at the same place as
everyone else. I still need to interact n10re with everybody else.
To All Leaders- I feel most free to let gp during the gospel section. I realized
in the middle that I was staring at the words on the page. I don't need to look
at the words, but I am so anchored to what is on the page that it hadn-t even
occurred to me to look up. I need to look up next tilne.
C 4-7-04 LTP- That was so cool! This was the first time I didn't worry about
ending too soon or too late4; the ending felt natural. I realized early in the
piece that I needed to lower my music stand. Once I did that I found myself
looking up and listening more. Cool!
Tao#33-I feel so much more free and connected to the musicians around Ine.
I've gotten over my fear and aIn able to listen more and more to everyone
around me. I'n1 aInazed at how we all end up at a similar place.
To All Leaders-I felt more free in this one too. I feel like the poem is flowing
Inore fluidly, too. It's really fun to ilnprov. In this one.
C 4-10-04 -I really enjoyed the performance. I had a lot of fun. I was worried
that doing this in front of an audience would keep Ine from letting go, but it
165
didn't. I feel like I have explored an entirely ne\\T genre of music, I'n1
excited to have been involved in this.
Guitarist 3-24-04 - LTP- Everything becan1e more tonal on the in1provisation, it
almost fell into a rhythm. We definitely talked to each other and traded ideas.
At first I didn't think the sections would tlow, but it was pretty obvious
where we were for the n10st part.
Tao#33- Playing shapes is interesting. It definitely leads to contemplation.
Using the words helps for structure.
To All Leaders- Sort of hard to fall into. Not too much for the instrun1entalists
to do, but it's nice to listen. I found that percussion on the body of the guitar
worked best. Chorus A- good stuff.
4-7-04- LTP- Free in1prov. Does not equal atonaL major chords have pO\\Ter
against atonali ty.
Tao#33- The signals work well on guitar, the shapes are easy to impose on
the fretboard, the others are a bit harder, dynalnic contrast seems to lacking
on the in1prov.
To All Leaders-Once again simplicity reigns.
4-10-04 - Performance, went with the ears a bit n10re, couldn't get the
rhythn1 on the gospel part.
166
Singer #3, 3-24-04 -LTP- Never done anything like that. Felt that I was afraid to
jun1p in because of past training. Was luore interested in supporting other
musICIans.
Tao #33- I found that it was difficult to follow the pattern and n1ake IUy
sounds fit with what I have been trained to do. As a vocalist trying to
luanipulate IUy instrument in this manner feels slightly uncomfortable and
hard to keep going.
TAL- Easy to get into the groove since there are words to relate to. The
speaking of the text previous to singing luade the transition into the music
perforn1ance more powerful.
3-27-04 LTP- This tilue n1uch more comfortable since we know what to
expect.
Tao#33-Found it easier to make the shapes happen. It gets easier as we
practice. Was out of zone before, not so much this time.
4-7-04 Just cooL not much more to say. I understand what to do now for the
n10st part. The shapes are hard to keep singing. When I hit the end I want to
stop but the section isn't over yet. My voice starts getting tired. This is
probably my least favorite piece of the three. (Tao#33)
TAL- Kickin! That is definitely the best piece. Most like previous
experiences. I really like this piece.