Yup.

Significantly increasing your polyunsaturate intake and focusing on lower-GI carbs

can help you make the shift. I've always had a general philosophy - pick your energy
source and stick to it. Either fat or carbs, not both.

Psychologically, it's just harder to manage an isocaloric split. For those of us who
respond best to low carbs, there's no point in trying to tip toe around the carb sensitivity
issue. The AD gives us endormorphically blessed, once fat and now skinny fat individuals
a way to put on quality mass without getting overly sloppy. I just can't handle post
workout carbs - they send me into a feeding frenzy. The AD simplifies that whole
equation for me, and makes eating so much easier and manageable.

I think there are better choices out there if you're only interested in doing the AD short
term. The AD takes awhile to set-up properly, given the two week break in period, the
time it takes to become fat adapted etc. You're looking at a minimum four weeks of
adaptation before you really start "humming along" as DH put it. Really take to heart
what posters on this thread are saying - they really know their stuff.

thoughts? di pasquale says to get a moderate amount of fat in during the cho load to
slow the insulin response, thus allowing for a more steady carb up without the huge
spikes and drops in energy level etc...

I've always done best on low-fat, high carb, low (ish) protein loads, that are "dry" in
nature. It could be just some snazzy water redistribution, but I find bloat is minimized
and overall body feel optimized when I stick to things like rice, pasta, bagels, etc. I don't
think adding fat in, per se, would be horribly detrimental, but I've always been one to
pick my "energy" source and stick to it.

Just finishing a grilled burger with bacon, jack cheese, mayo & mustard. No bun of
course.

That makes four burgers today, 8 eggs, 4 tbsp of olive oil, some fish oil, flaxseed oil, and
protein shakes. I may need a few more pieces of bacon.

I swear it is nature's perfect food.

The only problem I had with putting on strength and size was when I didn't eat enough
on the carb ups. You need the extra calories and carbs on these. I would relook at what
you ate on the weekends and see if it measures up.

If I didn't eat enough on the weekends, by Wednesday, my training would be shit, I

would feel flat and have no stamina. This would usually happen when my weekend carbs
only consisted of beers and rum and cokes.

I think for extremely active individuals (i.e. athletes), a mid-week carb spike may be
necessary to induce enough supercompensation to allow you to train all week long.

For some, yes. You have to remember that the people who truly excell on this style of
eating, are ususally people who do best on fat and protein...like me. Honestly, I don't
even like the carb ups other than that they allow me to go out to dinner on the weekend.

In my case, I play Minor League Football...I play both sides of the ball, the entire game,
only resting really on specials. My diet during the season is the same, except that I start
my carb-up on saturday night after the game. I've obviously never needed the carbs for
energy.

Then again, the reason that the AD is so great is that you can mold it to your specific
needs...need a mid-week spike? Go for it. Only need one day of carb up? Do it. It's
flexibility is it's strength.

Since i started mid-week spikes, weekdays make no difference to me regarding to

heavier or lighter lifting. I lift the same on Fridays as on Mondays.

I also have better control on my caloric intake when cutting because the load on
weekends lasts only one day so it's harder to overeat.

On the other hand, while bulking there are occasions when i want to bury myself into
food to the max on the weekend carb-ups. That's when i ditch the spike and go 36 hours
pigging out.

g.anagno wrote:
egcabanissiii wrote:
Just finishing a grilled burger with bacon, jack cheese, mayo & mustard. No bun of
course.

That makes four burgers today, 8 eggs, 4 tbsp of olive oil, some fish oil, flaxseed oil, and
protein shakes. I may need a few more pieces of bacon.

I swear it is nature's perfect food.

I might be wrong because i don't know the exact quantities, but it seems that your
saturated fat intake is too high compared to the other two kind of fats.

Given that you have mentioned a small issue about high LDL before in the thread, one
could say that you're walking on the edge...

Yea I have to agree here. You could clean that up quite a bit. I'm not anti-sat fat, I think
it should be about 1/3 of total fat intake, but too much can be bad.

Mayo is expendible...use more olive oil. Bacon, to me, is a once a week thing.
Concentrate more on the fish and flax oils and of course, the fiber.

Just keep in mind that there shoudl be a balance...red meat is great,...but so is salmon,
tuna, turkey and chicken. Mix it up.

speedy5323 wrote:
I've been toying around the other avenues of the low carb world for a while, I went on
the NHE for a bit and am currently doing T-dawg 2.0. The NHE was pretty much the
same as the AD as far as total carbs, however, on T-Dawg I'm looking at 100 grams a
day. If I decide to take the plunge back do you think I'd have to do the 12 day induction
phase again or could I do the 5 day, then carb up?

Unless you decided to take up low carb dieting as a new hobby, i suggest that you
should consider setting some clearly defined priorities. That way you'll be able to choose
a tactic that brings you faster and safer to your goals and stop wasting your time dealing
with (in a significant degree) different approaches.
I don't underestimate the benefits of experimentation but you should keep in mind that
there is a thin line between experimentation and disorientation.

IMO T-Dawg is not low carb for a fat-burner. It might be so for a carb burner but for us
adapted to fat is just a mild transition back to carb-burning.

From this point of view you can't put it in the same group as AD and NHE. That's the
reason for my first comment, which if by the way came out harsh, it didn't meant to be
so.

Today I got my bloodresults after being on the diet for 8 weeks.

Not good, my doctor is very upset.

cholesterol: 252
LDL : 172
triglycerides: 34
HDL : 73

I really don't know what to think. The tri's and HDL seem to be really good but the bad
stuff is really bad.
I'm a bit discouraged since I really like this diet and want to stick to it. But I can't ignore
those results either!
I take about 10-12 fishoil a day plus olive oil and flax. I have to admit I ate a lot of red
meat (daily) So that's the first thing to go.
I'm a bit confused now, just got the results, any input is appreciated.
thanks

8 weeks is pretty short time. What was your diet before this? How long after your last
carb up was you test?

Honestly, the diet isnt for everyone. Get some opinions on here and see what you wanna
do.

knuffel,
1. eat more chicken, fish, turkey
2. drop red meat to 2x per week
3. keep up the good fish oils
4. make your loads clean overall
5. try smaller loads (24 hours)until your next test.

DH

knuffel wrote:
so what do you think about eggs?? I eat 3 a day, one of them omega 3 egg.
What do you think will be the best time to test again? Weeks or months?
thanks

3 hole eggs plus red meat every single day? In the battle between the Omega3 and
cholesterol you get i think the odds are against the good guys.

Judging from many posters since the beginning of the thread, i feel that AD and the high
fat stuff can easily be an excuse to overconsume foods that need to be eaten in
moderation.
Speaking for myself, jumping on the AD didn't make a difference in the way i was
getting my protein (lean sources, 2-3x/week red meat). What changed though was that
the other part of my meals was more vegetables and lots of GOOD fats instead of CHO.

It is so much harder (and costly) to get most of your protein from fish or poultry
(especially when bulking) than from red meat which can be found anywhere anytime at a
low cost.

You must spend a lot of time in the grocery and the kitchen. You must always think
ahead so you don't run out of healthy food and eat something you shouldn't normally
eat, but hey, that's the cost of good health. No one said it was easy but it's worthwile
and it becomes an effortless lifestyle once you get used to it.

"What role would the carb up play in the blood work? I can understand its impact om
blood sugar, but not necessarily on cholesterol."

I took a test after a carb up once (also ate some junk food) and it threw my results
off...way off. Retested 2 weeks later and was fine.

Ok, so like everyone said...more chicken, turkey, fish. Red meat is fine, but I go 2-3
times per week and usually leaner cuts.

Eggs? They dont seem to bother me...I eat 4 every morning.

Do not underestimate the importance of fiber in lowering cholesterol.

Also,
Lets move your ratio's a bit. Don't worry about eggs. Lets just keep a few variables in
the mix so that you can systematically determine what will work for you and what is
unnecessary.

Do the following:
Fat 50%
Protein 45%
CHO 5%

Example 3000cals
1500 fat (@165g fat per day)
1365 pro (@340g pro per day)
30-35g CHO per day
20g-30g fiber

Now on your fish oil. How much EPA/DHA are you getting in 12g? Let's get the "gold"
here to about 5g per day. Shouldn't be too much of a wallet strain.

Niacin. Get some slo-niacin and follow directions on the bottle and gradually bump your
dosage. Nicain will drop cholesterol levels pretty well in about 5-8 weeks.

Coupling this with less red meat and minimal pork and you should improve.

DH
Knuffel, buy yourself a copy of 'The Protein Power Lifeplan' by Drs Eades. They go into
great detail about cholesterol. For example, there's more than one type of LDL particle.
Infact depending on the type of fat one eats the LDL particles can be 'good'.

Another notable point is the triglyceride: HDL ratio. To quote the good drs ' A reading of
5 is set as a break point, above 5 there's a risk and the further above 5 the greater the
risk. Conversly the further below 5 the less the risk. Your ratio is around 0.4! You have
little to worry about.
Really, buy yourself a copy of the book. It will put your mind at ease.

Failing that, ask yur dr to have your LDL tested. If they come back as the large fluffy
type (which they will) then again you have few worries.

The Eades have a website, but it's under construction at the moment it's
www.proteinpower.com. They have an email address at the above address which you
could email your blood results to and ask their opinion.

Keith

Weekdays:
For some folks, "excess" (relative individual term) protein can become a glycogen source
that can negatively alter the diet a bit. BUT, even though this is so on "paper", I've yet
to see it actually alter the effectiveness of the AD. Results trump research in my book,
ultimately. So, that being said, as long as you are getting a minimum of .8g/lb of protein
then you're fine. At the top end, as long as your CHO is below 30 and you respect the
AD, then you're fine to use at times as much as 2g/lb. I've done 50% protein before and
had no negative effects whatsoever.

Weekends: No worries. Don't even count protein. I prefer to avoid much meat just for a
change of pace. Plus it makes my Monday steak all the better. ;-)

Best,
DH

Also what do you think is a good source of fibre without adding too many calories?

Broccoli,cauliflower,spinach.

I have recently round organic flax seed meal, basically it's ground flax seeds, to be a
great source of pure fiber plus good fats. I'm adding it to all of my protein shakes as of
now. There is a bit of a texture diffence, but the taste is pleasant.

Actually I find that milk (dang it!) and cola really bloat me badly. I can actually see my
fingers thicken. Water, on the other hand, keeps me looking good. I do know that for
me, I try to drink only a few ounces of water with a meal and then consume the bulk in
between feedings. Works best for me. Now on the NHE, the load is so acute and so carb
based, that I think Rob is primarily concerned (on the BB version anyway) with the bloat
actually hindering CHO consumption thereafter. S

eeing as there is no real upper limit to CHO on NHE, he wants to be sure that you get
the cals in as needed. Bloating seems to be a distant second and for those that I deal
with directly on the AD and or NHE, it's the soda and milk that are usually the culprits.
But then it all goes away on Monday or Tuesday anyway. I'm more convinced the water
is an overlooked anti-catabolic substance too. Insufficient hydration compromises
performance and consequently results. At least with milk, if I consume it in small
quantities of say 6oz servings spaced out, I can minimize the bloat.
Now, on the loads you'll obviously hold water much easier. So I wouldn't avoid it, and I
wouldn't saturate myself either. I like using about 3-4 glasses of 12oz. It's a trial and
error thing for each person. Gatorade, even though it's not the best CHO source, really
fills my muscle up. So do Jelly Beans and Oatmeal. Go figure.

best,
DH

speedy5323 wrote:
I want to see what your thoughts are on water consumption during the carb-ups. I
remember that on the NHE, it is recommended to consume just enough to ward off taste
during times when carbs are consumed, however, those carb ups last for two meals as
oppossed to two days. The logic behind this is to reduce bloat/water retention that will
occurr from a lot of carbs+a lot of water.

Do any of you cut back on water consumption during the carb up? I don't feel the need
to go thirsty, but at the same time, I don't feel the same need to pound a gallon as I do
on normal days.

CHO free fiber, instead of Metamucil with dextrose, can be derived from straight psyllium
hulls. But, as Wolverin pointed out, I like food sources best. Enjoy your veggies.

DH

Zdrax,
That's a good question. Now that you've adapted well to the diet, you can certainly push
the CHO up to about 40-50g IFF (If and only if) you make sure that it comes from
vegetable sources that are allowable on the AD. No corn etc... A Pepsi would screw
things up for hours, even though technically you came in under 50g.

This is a very individual thing. Some cannot convert over unless they get 10-20g per day
as a maximum, and some even after they adapt fully. That seems to be a minority
though. Also, diets that incorporate more frequent CHO loads such as the NHE, must
compensate by getting your levels down a bit more rapidly than the AD's 5/2 cycle
demands. We've got longer to empty the tank.

For you guys who've been on this for 4-6 months or longer, feel free to do some
intelligent experimentation and watch the mirror and the weight bar like a hawk. You are
now learning "you". That will be very empowering in your future quest for "masshood"
;-).

I will say that I think 50 is probably the upper limit. The increase needs to be ONLY for
veggies OR a little post workout CHO.

***And on the PW CHO, I still prefer to force the body to get it's glycogen stores back
up without help from me. It keeps the fat burning machinery going full out. So the PW
CHO is really for the ectomorph who wants to gain muscle and maintain fat levels.

***For those wanting to gain muscle and lean out, or who have trouble staying lean, nix
the PW CHO and go with my previously mentioned protein/cream/olive oil shake. Taking
whey protein (concentrate, isolate, or hydrolysate it doesn't matter) as a pre-workout or
even during workout drink with very little to no fat is best. IF you use concentrate then
give it about 45-60 minutes to get into your system. Take it a while before the workout.
Isolate is a bit faster, and hydrolysate can be taken very close to the workout. Just
adjust depending on your source. Then about an hour after your workout, take the
combo shake. I like 15g of fat or so from heavy cream and about 40-50g protein.

best,
DH

35. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 1989 Jul-Aug;13(4):382-6. Effect of whey proteins,
their oligopeptide hydrolysates and free amino acid mixtures on growth and nitrogen
retention in fed and starved rats. Poullain MG, Cezard JP, Roger L, Mendy F.

36. Eur J Nutr. 2000 Dec;39(6):237-43. Protein hydrolysate vs free amino acid-based
diets on the nutritional recovery of the starved rat. Boza JJ, Moennoz D, Vuichoud J,
Jarret AR, Gaudard-de-Weck D, Ballevre O.

37. Gut. 1985 Jul;26(7):694-9. Relative nutritional value of whole protein, hydrolysed
protein and free amino acids in man. Moriarty KJ, Hegarty JE, Fairclough PD, Kelly MJ,
Clark ML, Dawson AM.

38. Gut. 1982 Aug;23(8):670-4. Comparison of plasma and intraluminal amino acid
profiles in man after meals containing a protein hydrolysate and equivalent amino acid
mixture. Hegarty JE, Fairclough PD, Moriarty KJ, Clark ML, Kelly MJ, Dawson AM.

Another issue is that BCAA supplements are in the form of free-form amino acids, as
opposed to a whole protein source. Supplement companies often claim that free-form
amino acids are absorbed in greater quantity, more effectively, and more quickly, but
this is contrary to the scientific evidence. In general, studies indicate that protein
hydrolysates are utilized most effectively, followed by whole proteins, followed by free
form amino acids. Intestinal transporters exist for both peptides and free amino acids,
and peptides are absorbed more rapidly [34]. Peptides that are not absorbed via a
transporter can be rapidly broken down enzymatically. Although not the best model for
human athletes, studies in food-deprived rats being refed consistently find that whey
protein hydrolysate leads to much higher degrees of weight gain and nitrogen retention
than free form amino acids, with one study indicating that whole protein is in the middle
in terms of effectiveness [35-36]. Comparative studies have also been done in humans.
In healthy subjects, whole protein, protein hydrolysate, and free amino acids all resulted
in similar nitrogen balance [37]. Another study in healthy humans found that a protein
hydrolysate was absorbed equally as rapidly as free form aminos [38]. Ideally, a study
more specific to the conditions in question would be available, but this research indicates
that fast-digesting proteins could be just as or more effective than free form amino acids
for use before or during exercise.

I second the milk issue. Sunday evening is always a bit scary if you're all bloated out
from milk. I react poorly to it as well.

New protein: Just received some Dymatize ISO 100 protein with zero carbs and zero fat.
Seems perfect for this diet. Has anyone tried it?

Thanks.

EGC

Okay guys, I have to admit a dirty little secret. I love working out during carb loads.
Why, you might ask?
Going into the gym - let's be honest - with an engorged and very full stomach gives me
such tremendous stability on lower body lifts. I kid you not I've put 35lbs onto my x 8
max, and increased my 1RM on the squat by atleast as much while losing fat.
Unbelievable.

The loads make me so filled and tremendously vascular that the gym regulars (who see
me depleted) give me looks of incredulity. It's pretty amusing to be honest.

God I love this diet.

I feel you exactly!

Especially the afternoon of the first day of the load i'm an ANIMAL.

Fresh fuel plus abundant cals plus non working day = the right attitude for heavy, cruel
lifting

You dont HAVE to take creatine with carbs. Alot of companies made creatine + simple
carbs as a post workout product because the insulin spike supposedly helps shuttle
creatine into the muscles. Just take 5g of creatine daily and you'll be fine.

Not sure how well it would work for you; you'd have to try it out. I do my low carb days
from Sunday to Thursday and use Friday and Saturday as my carb load days. On
Wednesdays and Thursdays, quite frankly I usually feel like dogshit.

This might also have something to do with the fact that I'm clinically depressed and
already have seratonin problems, a problem exacerbated by the low carbs. I'll inevitably
end up telling someone on Wed. and Thurs. "I'm sad. My body ran out of carbs!"

I guess things would really depend on your schedule.

This feeling ameliorates after a few weeks on the diet. I too, though not clinically
depressed, experienced that "need carbs" feeling for the first week or two. To be honest,
you really have to focus on getting in enough calories in this diet. I think a lot of people
dismiss it because they jump into the diet and start eating like they normally would, but
because there are no carbs to overeat, come in at 500 - 1000kcal below maintenance.

Also, I find if lethargy is an issue, or workout efficacy seems to be compromised, bump

your protein intake. This will provide enough gluconeogenesis to keep your muscle
bellies full and primed.

Wouldn't the exacty opposite be true? Too many carbs = shitty seratonin levels...I
could've sworn that was one of the theories in "Lights Out." I'll go re-read that and get
back to you.

Nah, in the AD book (the original one, that's the one I have), Dr. D says that carbs
trigger seratonin production and he says on the carb days, it will be high causing you to
be happy or loopy, but also lethargic and sleepy.
Oh, I'm fully adapted. I've been on it for about 10 weeks now and had been low carb
(sub 100 per day at least) even before I started. I don't have a "carb" craving per se on
Wednesday and Thursday; it manifests itself in my brain, not in my stomach LOL.

The only other thing that could be playing a factor here is my 3-day split. I actually take
Wednesdays and Thursdays off because at the outset I figured my performance would be
worst on those days. However, since I get extremely excited to lift and feel great
afterwards, lifting is actually an anti-depressant for me.

I'm switching to a Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday 4 -day split starting next week.
Maybe that will give me different results.

True.Lots of carbs=lots of serotonin.For some ime.

Rob Faigin mentions this in NHE,page 103 for those of you who has the book.For those
of you that don't,you're lucky yesterday was carb-up day and that I've just had a great
workout.Here:

'Whereas a protein meal supplies the raw materials to make neurotransmitters,a

carbohydrate meal does not.ather,a high-carbohydrate meal artificially boosts serotonin
by means of inducing a temporary hormonal imbalance that forces a disproportionate
amount of tryptophan ito the brain.this raises the question whether chronic high-
carbohydrate loe-protein eating can,over tme,reduce serotonin levels.It is indisputable
that a diet high in refined carbohydrates is unnatural from an evolutionary
perspective,and that a meal rich in refined carbohydrates profoundly impacts upon brain
chemistry.I suspect that chronic high-refined-carbohydrate eating does,indeed,have a
long-term adverse effect on brain function by means of impairing serotonin synthesis.'

And

'We know that obese individuals exhibit a merkedly lower rate of serotonin synthesis,and
we know low serotonin can cause carbohydrate cravings,which,in turn,promotes obesity.'

Lots of good fats+lots of protein+low carbohydrate+periodically high

carbohydrate=Happy.

hey guys
i just got back my chol. results. i was lucky as before i started the anabolic i had to get
tested for life insurance so i have a before and after comparison which is helpful.
ok been on anabolic for about six weeks now

cholesteral pre diet 185 , now 184

trigl. pre diet 135, now 24
hdl pre diet 61 , now 56
this one needs to down not up,so im not happy about that result ,though normal is
35-55
ldl pre diet 97, now 123
and this was a bad one too.so two were good and two were bad.but all tests even the
bad ones still fall within normal range.
all liver tests came back fine as well.

I've found that I really need my sleep on this program -- much more so than on a carb
method where you can pop some CHO for quick energy.
PublickStews wrote:
Hey, I have a question for the pros. I've been using the AD for cutting fat all along, and
am now in my 11th or 12th week. Recently I've had some minor back annoyances that
stemmed mainly from switching beds. It just wouldn't seem to go away no matter what I
did, so I've taken this entire week off from lifting (even lifting dumbbells out ofthe rack
made it feel weird) and walked about 4 miles a day.

Now, I had recently switched to 16 hour carb ups instead of 36 and have experienced
good results with that for losing fat. My question is, given that I've done no weight
training since my lastcarb up, should I possibly just skip it this week and resume the
next? I seem to be fully adapted now--my last carb up I didn't even feel like eating carbs
but forced myself anyway.

I do not consider myself a "pro" on this but here are my 2c:

I've been through the same situation a week ago (a whole week with no lifting to recover
from 4 weeks of cruel training).

I had the same doubts about wether i should have a carb up or not. Finally i did it, it
lasted 18 hrs, i consumed about 500 gr CHO and i thank God i took that decision. Now
that we are close tothe end of this week (a full lifting one for me) i can surely say that
shouldn't i had those carbs i wouldn't make it through the week.

So, i think you should do the carb up especially if you plan to lift next week. Try to keep
it brief and clean, don't go overboard with the overall cals and you won't have any fat
storing problems.

Your body expects it as a part of a circle regardless of lifting or not. Breaking this circle
doesn't seems such a good idea to me.

Afterall, even without working out and inspite the glycogen sparring nature of the AD i
don't think that your glycogen stores are as full as they were a week ago.

(Personal note: I felt and were so pumped during the whole week i wasn't working out!)

86