Umbar

HERV BARATTE (MAY, 05, 2002) Hello everyone, Here is a copy of the response which I received today from Jason Beresford (who is one of the three authors of MERP modules whom I sent an invitation to our great project): "Hello, (...) Unfortunately, much of the work for Umbar 2nd Edition was lost in my old computer. The files I have archived on floppy discs date from 1991. I know that significantly newer data was written as I supported "The Kin-Strife" and the two Southern Gondor products. I'm not sure when or if I will have a chance to reconstitute the newer parts from e-mail I printed and filed away and other notes (which I do have!). More news in approx 3 to 4 weeks. Best Regards, Jason Beresford." Thanks to Jason. More news here as soon as I shall receive them from him... Herv Baratte GABRIELE QUAGLIA (MAY, 10, 2002) > I don't mind the continent in the south-west, as it almost makes a Mediterranean area, although it seems too far > south, if Umbar is considered the equator (just a guess on my part, I don't know where the equator is intended to > be on the old map). It would make this Africa-like continent too cold, I think. Umbar is the same latitude of Tangier (in our world). The equator runs about 500 miles south of the southwesternmost tip of Middle Earth (Metrast). It is much, much more south than you imagined. Gabriele ERIC DUBOURG (MAY, 10, 2002) The equator isn't on the same latitude as Umbar: Umbar (and Near Harad) are much too dry or even arid with a few or no vegetation (steppe or desert); the lands under the equator must be damp with a lot a vegetation (equatorial forest, jungle, marsh)! The equator is on the same latitude as the lands in "The Court of Ardor" or "Shadow in the South". JASON LOWMAN (MAY, 23, 2002) I'm trying to get together as much information as I can for a campaign starting in maybe Pelargir or even Gondor and heading south, ostensibly as far as Ormal Bay. I've got all the modules detailing all the areas I may need except for 'Forest of Tears' and 'Umbar'. I know it would be illegal to have copies made of any of those modules, but does anyone know of any online sources that may help me, especially as far as Umbar is concerned? I don't even know the makeup of my party, yet, so I can't say if it'll be a political campaign, or more combat oriented, or what, but if I could find any maps, political info, etc, it would be extremely helpful. Does anyone have any suggestions? EJ (MAY 23, 2002) Hi Jason, I have Forest of Tears and will help in any way I can. Also, you might want to try EBAY, thet sell MERP modules on-line there. Want More? EJ STEVE LANNIGAN (MAY, 23, 2002) 1

I have a copy of 'The Cosairs of Umbar'. I would be more than happy for you get a copy of this. I'm not sure how to do this over the net - but I could post you a copy if that would help. JDH, SEVINEYE (MAY, 23, 2002) I would advise you not to get your hopes up about Umbar, it is the most disappointing of the Merp modules. For such a potentially rich setting - in terms of history, adventure, and 'atmosphere' - it does a remarkably poor job and feels half-finished. It seems like it will need a lot of GM input to turn it into a reasonable game setting, and I am sure any GM on this list can do better starting from scratch. IGNACIO CUDEIRO (MAY, 23, 2002) I agree, Umbar is a VERY dissapointing module, but it can be revised and completed. And Court of Ardor is a VERY superpowered campaign, but I use it to set a single group of powerful evil elves with few strongholds and more reclusive and less dangerous that those depicted in the Ardor module. STEVE LANNIGAN (MAY, 23, 2002) I would tend to agree - but it does provide enough details for it to be worth having a copy of. Any Umbar setting would benefit from it (although having paid 115 for a shrink wrapped copy I suppose I'm bound to say that). JASON LOWMAN (MAY, 23, 2002) I think I can get a copy of 'The Grey Mountains' for just a little over what the cover price is, but I'd have to find the guy's email again. He said he had multiple copies. I've got all the Harad modules except 'Forest of Tears', 'Umbar', and 'Court of Ardor', but I'm really only looking for Umbar info. I don't even know if the PC's will want to travel there, but I'd like to have the info just in case. Steve (or anyone else, for that matter), any help you could give would be great. Feel free to email me privately. ERIC DUBOURG (JUN, 10, 2002) Hi all, Here is the response for Ormal and Illuin Bay. For these lands, People of Middle Earth don't have a clearly equivalent race culture, but instead a mix of real cultures (except for some few peoples). [CUT] This classification of people (not entirely made by myself) should also help you : 2. Haradrim [CUT] Sixth Group: -- Coastal Near Harad (Umbareans and Sakalai) Peasant farmers, fishermen, herdsmen, urban folk Middling height and build, brown to black hair, tanned to light brown skin. (Numidian and Magreb cultures) The original Sakalai were the southernmost of the Daen peoples who reached the coasts of the Bay of Belfalas in the later First Age. As the second millennium of the Second Age began, these peoples were in danger of being absorbed by the Haruze, but the Numenoreans came to the coasts of Endor and gradually took the Sakalai under their protection. By the late Second Age a new language, Westron, had arise between Umbar and Pelargir, based on Adunaic salted with elements of the old Daen tongues. While Westron usage eventually spread northward to Eriador and Rhovanion, the larger number of Westron-speakers dwelt in Gondor and Umbar until after the Kinstrife in the mid-Third Age. The Umbareans were slowly absorbed by the Haruze thereafter. Their language and culture eventually melded with those of the rest of northern Harad. 2

HAERANGIL (DEC 10, 2002) Decipher used additional " Background Packages", for example you can choose: Middle-man and Background Package Beorning, Dunlending, Breelander, Barding, Gondorian or Rohir... its quite inconsistant that if you choose Man of Darkness and background Package : Easterling or Southron if the Men of Darkness would be handled like the Middle-men it should rather be: Easterling Background Package Wainrider, Balcron etc. or Haradron Background Package: Harondorian, Umbarian, Near-Haradrom etc. Decs not very logical at this point. ERIC DUBOURG (JUN, 27, 2002) Hi ! This is the list of the Language Families (which can be found on the web also?): Language Generation Vocabulary Base Territorial Focus [CUT] Umbarean 6 Semitic West

ERIC DUBOURG (SEP, 16 2002) Subject: Sakal-an-Khar Hi all, Yes indeed there is a "Sakal an-Khar" in Near Harad. But this "Sakal an-Khr" has nothing in common with the one in Ormal Bay. Bellakar and Gondor would certainly not allow a realm darker than Umbar near their lands. I noticed some times ago this by asking a question to Chris (Seeman) "In looking in OH29/30, I saw in one map page 38, the term "Sakal an-Khr". What this land signify in Near Harad ? If so, we have also a problem with the name of the evil Num empire, also named "Sakal an-Khr". We should change the name of thsi empire. Suggestions?" Here is Chris's response : Sakal an-Khar is the name of the coastlands between Umbar and the River Harnen. After TA 1050 the Sindarin form is used: Harnfalas (as in the Kin-strife module). I don't have a problem with it being used elsewhere. It's a fairly generic name ("Southern Coast"), so it is likely that it was used more than once A good ancient parallel is "Peraia" (literally :"the other side"), which was used to refer both to Herod the Great's Transjordanian holdings and the mainland possessions of Rhodes in Asia Minor. ERIC DUBOURG (SEP, 13, 2002) Hi EJ and all, Some of these creatures I created for Sakal an-Khr and Zurghr (the jungle setting in Ormal Bay). Here it is: [CUT] 3

Giant Apes : The Giant Apes of the Cape of Umbar are notorious in the tales of travellers in the southlands. Some more southern Kindred of this race lives in the jungles north of Ormal. The Apes usually arent aggressive but they are easily provoked and can be quite formidable foes due to their sharp teeth and claws and superior body strength.

Population in Harad

IGNACIO CUDEIRO (SEP 13, 2002 ) Hello Eric and all: As I am developing River Sres Area in Bellakar and its cities (Esmer, Coastal Esmer and Nllond) I am reading all the modules referred to that area to make them interconsistent. So I have an analysis and a lot of questions to make. First of all I would like to make an analysis on Population in Harad. In KIN-STRIFE module it is stated that Umbar area is surprisingly overpopulated because of historical and commercial reasons. It is estimated a population of 600.000 in the area between River Harnen and River Cuivirant (in Dsalan). In another page of the module it is estimated in 700.000. Most of the people is located near the southern bank of the Harnen, in the Northern and Eastern coasts of Nen Umbar and in Dsalan. Principal cities: Umbar (30.000), Dsalan (5.000), Mars (2900), Eithel Angir (1.500), Numers (1.800). In NORTHWESTERN MIDDLE-EARTH GAZETEER the population of Umbar is greater (60.000) with these percentages: 35%Coastal People 30% Corsair, 25%Haruze, 10%Numenrean. But the population of other areas was diminished. I think population noted in KIN-STRIFE is more accurate. Land population according SOUTHERN GONDOR module: 1450 TA : Anrien 1.800.000, Lebennin 1.800.000, Ithilien 1.400.000, Belfalas 1.000.000, Lamedon 200.000, Anfalas and Mornan 1.000.000, Harondor 1.100.000, Umbar 1.850.000. Southern Gondor total without Umbar: 8.300.000 1650 TA Anrien 900.000, Lebennin 900.000, Ithilien 700.000, Belfalas 500.000, Lamedon 120.000, Anfalas and Mornan 700.000, Harondor 700.000, Umbar 1650.000. Southern Gondor total without Umbar: 4.520.000 Umbar zone population grows from 700.000 in KIN-STRIFE module to 1.650.000-1.850.000. I think is very high! Taking into account the population of Minas Tirith (45.000 according SEA LORDS OF GONDOR module)(55.000 according SOUTHERN GONDOR module) and Minas Ithil (30.000 SLoG) (36.000 SG)and Pelargir (50.000 SLoG) (60.000 SG module), Dol Amroth (11.200), Linhir (4.000), Declining Ostgiliath (5.000). And the statement that Pelargir was the second major port of all the West Coast of Endor and the first was Umbar. (SEA LORDS OF GONDOR module). [CUT] Umbar is supossed to have only 3.000-6.000 Numenreans. [CUT] I saw in BELLAKAR module that the amount of Numenrean people is very high during a very long period, I think that intermarriage should decrease the amount of pure-blooded as in Umbar, this is: in a lower degree than in Gondor where the decline was faster but in a certain degree after all. I find hard to believe that some cities are mostly Numenrean in Mid Third Age and later

ABOUT GONDOR AND UMBAR INFLUENCE IN BELLAKAR: It is said that a line of fortresses exist from Dsalan to Cape Squid in the Bay of Tulwang. These must be actually cities an fortresses of Mardruak, Felayja and Bellazen coasts in Bellakar. But, as in KIN-STRIFE Module is said that there was a strong Gondorian influence from 1050 TA to Kin-Strife. This is connected with THE VICTORY OF HYARMENDACIL (TA 1016-1050) in BELLAKAR module in the Files Section and the alliance between Gondor and Bellakar: [CUT] I assume while reading BELLAKAR module in the Files Section that Mardruak is an ally of Tulwang. During Second Sorijan War it could be considered that Sorijans made Bellakar unstable. Could this be connected with the statement in KIN-STRIFE Module that several forts from Dsalan to cape Squid were Gondorians?. Perhaps, Gondor achieved the right to have commercial or garrisons along the coast as a token for the aid to Bellakar After all the Peace of Tulwang was designed by Calimir of Gondor according to BELLAKAR module. In KIN-STRIFE Module Zimrakhil as agent of Adnaphel the Ringwraith, is an ambassador for a Southern Confederation of Haradan kingdoms opposed to the goals of Bozisha-Dar during the reign of Castamir in 1441 TE. [CUT] In KIN-STRIFE module there is an adventure in which one side is trying to led a Gondorian campaign against the Army of the Southern Dragon and the other side is trying to avoid it. Adnaphels agents as Zimrakhil try to turn Gondor southwards to make Adnaphels plots in Lgarlr safer. In BELLAKAR module it is said that the threat of the Army of the Southern Dragon (and his Anabalkkhor ally) was stopped by the joined forces of Bozisha-Dar, Tulwang and Bellakar without Gondorian support. But this must be consistent with the statement in KIN-STRIFE perhaps taking into account the distance and the time required to have intelligence about the situation (In KIN-STRIFE module it is supposed that Gondor does not led an army to the south because of the minimun probability to be attacked by the AoSD but Adnaphels agents would like this to prevent Gondor from realizing of the threat of near Lgarlr). Just a slight probability (in game terms) to change the BELLAKAR module. This is good enough for my QUEST OF THE MOON GODDESS RELICS Campaign in which Akhrahil and Adnaphel have opposed interests in the Relics and so it is well linked with the plot given in KIN-STRIFE. After this war of Tulwang and the fall of Castamir those possible Gondorian forts or presence in Bellakar stated in KIN-STRIFE module should disappear to reassume BELLAKAR module without changes. I mean: It should be done a HALF ARRANGMENT to meet common points between KIN-STRIFE and BELLAKAR modules. [CUT] In BELLAKAR module is stated that Narik-Zadan and Hazaj Tollin sent forces to assist Castamir as they were in good terms with Umbar during the reign of Castamir. This could be used as the justification for the Gondorian presence, and with the retaking of the throne by Eldacar and the foundation of the Corasair Kingdom the reason to stop considering "that line of Gondorian forts from Dsalan to cape Squid" stated in KIN-STRIFE. Or perhaps, the presence was substituted by Umbarean forces, because of the statement that "cordial relationships between Bellakar and Umbar were maintained but without Bellakarian intervention in the war between Gondor and Umbar" as it is said in BELLAKAR module. Posterior alliance with Gondor, and Umbar interests during Bellakaze Civil War are not in conflict with KINSTRIFE module. ERIC DUBOURG (SEP, 13, 2002) Hello Ignacio and all: Let's try to answer point by point : 6

> In NORTHWESTERN MIDDLE-EARTH GAZETEER the population of Umbar is greater (60.000) with these > percentages: 35%Coastal People 30% Corsair, 25%Haruze, 10%Numenrean. But the population of other areas > was diminished. I think population noted in KIN-STRIFE is more accurate. Yes, but the Kin Strife gives the estimate population around 1400 TA, and the NW Middle Earth Gazeeter in TA 1640. You should have a look at Other Hands #3 on the web also. > Or perhaps, the presence was substituted by Umbarean forces, because of the statement that "cordial relationships > between Bellakar and Umbar were maintained but without Bellakarian intervention in the war between Gondor > and Umbar" as it is said in BELLAKAR module. Bellakar intervention in favor of Gondor remained limited, which explains the cordial relationships between Bellakar and Umbar.

Cronology GABRIELE QUAGLIA (DEC, 23, 2002) Hello Jason, >Are the rulers of Umbar in 1640 TA Corsairs? Yes, they are: briefly, here's how it goes the leadership in Umbar (according to LotR): SA c. 1200 - 3319: the city is a Nmenorean colony. Perhaps the political structures varies, as the city improves and gets more and more important (from a simple military outpost to a pseudo-republic where a royal governor rules, adviced by local representatives of powerful families - but this is only my speculation, no evidence from LotR). ERIC DUBOURG (AUG, 2, 2002) Hi ! A detailed timeline for Ormal Bay (part I): This chronology (there is room to more events of course) details from First Age to SA 2549. Second Age 2005-2031 The First Pezarsan Wars. Uvatha conquers Pezarsan and drives down the Harnen. Adunaphel of Vamag organizes a resistance among the Haruze after Amrun switches sides and the Numenorean governor of Umbar is slain in battle. Most of Pezarsan is free of the Variags after a relirf force arrives from Numenor, but Adunaphel remains the most powerful force in Western Near Harad. [CUT] 2250 - 2287 The War of the Renegades. Tar-Ancalimon [Fourteenth King of Nmenor, ruled 135 years from II 2251 to 2386] proceeds to plan the reconquest of the territory held in thrall by the Storm King [Akhrahil the Ringwraith the awful Storm King - the fifth Nazgl master, who commands Sauron's hated Army of the Southern Dragon.]. TarAncalimon orders Umbar strengthened and expanded, making it the greatest citadel in the region. A Nmenorean army lands in Tulwang, defeats the Ciryatandorian forces and causes the Storm King to flee his kingdom. This victory preserves the prospects for further Adan exploitation in Bellakar, Ciryatandor and Bozisha-Miraz. [CUT] 3261 Ar-Pharazon, leading the vast Numenorean fleet, lands at Umbar. His army pushes deep into Endor, sending Sauron's servants fleeing before its might. GABRIELE QUAGLIA (DEC, 23, 2002) SA 3319 - TA 933: in this time Umbar is independent, and it would establish a new political structure, perhaps oligarchic in nature. TA 933 - 1448: Umbar suffers Gondorean domination. I'm sure Kin-strife module offers something plausible for the leadership, which I would beintersted to know. Perhaps Gondorean families move into the city and occupy all positions of power, swearing allegiance to the king of Osgiliath. They could become vassals in the South (again, just my speculations). This period is marked by warfare with the Haradrim people of the surrounding lands. TA 1448 - 1810: Castamir's supporters repair in Umbar, and fortify there waging a corsair-war against the halfblooded Kings of Gondor. According to ICE, Umbar becomes an oligarchy. IMHO, whoever rules, he is pure blooded Dnadan, and racial laws should get very severe, even more than in Arthedain. IIRC, Tolkien never talks about the King of Umbar, or even a Corsair (singular form), so it is possible that power is shared. However, Castamir's blood was still valued, as stated in Appendic A. Perhaps Tolkien has in mind the northern African cities of late Middle Ages, ruled by a military elite of corsairs, and a single Pasha who presided over a council. DON (SEP 26, 2002) Subject: Third Age dates from 2 to 2136 [CUT] 1432 Death of King Valacar of Gondor. The succession of his son Eldacar is disputed, and civil war begins in Gondor. 8

1437 The burning of Osgiliath, and the loss of its palantr. 1447 Eldacar returns from the east and reclaims the Crown of Gondor, slaying Castamir the Usurper. 1448 Castamir's sons escape to Umbar, and form the beginnings of the Corsairs. [CUT] 1798 Death of Tarondor. He is succeeded as King of Gondor by his son Telumehtar. 1810 Telumehtar Umbardacil takes Umbar and slays the last descendants of Castamir. GABRIELE QUAGLIA (DEC, 23, 2002) TA 1810 - ?: King Teluhmetar retakes Umbar, Castamir's blood is extinguished, but I can't find when the city is lost. Shortly after, probably. Then, Umbar remains Shadow-controlled until the fall of Sauron. Dnadan power most probably wanes in favour of Haradrim. From the first years of the Fourth Age, Umbar would experience political troubles, as the dark priesthood is kicked out. Elessar probably conquers the city during his reign. DON (SEP 26, 2002) Subject: Third Age dates from 2 to 2136 1850 Death of Telumehtar Umbardacil. He is succeeded by his son, who becomes Narmacil II.

Adnaic names ERIC DUBOURG (SEP 14, 2002) Subject: City "Adunaic" names Hi all, There is a need for Illuin Bay (as there is a Faithful Numenorean colony there) to create some new names (in Sindarin or Adunaic for Illuin Bay, in Adunaic for southern Numenorean colonies. There is as well a need to define some lovely river names in Adunaic. I think that Aronduin ("Wood River") is Sindarin. What would be Adunaic equivalent ? Illuin Bay : - Hithlond Other suggestion names : - "Mountain Fortress" - "Forest Coast City" - "Grey Mighty Tower of Protection" - "Vigilance Tower" - "Shining Pillar of the Adnai" VERYLEN (SEP, 14, 2002) This desire for the Adunization of place names within Middle Earth baffles me. For example, the mightiest stronghold of King's Men, and the Melkoric religion within Middle Earth, was never renamed by them. I am writing of the city of Umbar. The ship of the Great Fleet that Ar-Pharazon used was named "Alcarondas". I challenge anyone to claim this is an Adunaic name. ERIC DUBOURG (SEP, 15, 2002) Umbar is indeed not an Adunaic word (umbar is a quenya word), but Alcarondas may be an Adunaic word (ardalambion site). Alkarondas "Castle of the Sea", name of Ar-Pharazn's ship (PM:156, spelt Alcarondas in SD:385). Seems to have replaced Aglarrma of the same meaning. Others take Alcarondas as being properly a Quenya form, translation of the actual Adnaic name Aglarrma - but neither name is easy to match with the translation (?) "Castle of the Sea". I may use Alkaronda for a city name in Middle Earth. GABRIELE QUAGLIA (SEP, 15, 2002) Hi all, > I am writing of the city of Umbar. The ship of the Great Fleet that Ar-Pharazon used was named "Alcarondas". I > challenge anyone to claim this is an Adunaic name. Surely locals use 'corrupted' Adunaic for such names. Anyway, Sindarin or Elven names are quite hard to believe in places where the King's Men rule. Anyway, I believe that the rich Nmenorean literature (especially in late SA) should have brought to a 'classic' form of Adunaic. So, when two learned Men from former Nmenorean colonies meet, they won't communicate in their own different dialects, but speak 'classical' Adunaic (let's say the language of learned Men under the last High Kings), the same way Middle Ages scholars used Latin when talking with foreigners. > I find hard to believe that some cities are mostly Numenrean in Mid Third Age and later So, I imagine that 'pure' Adunaic survives well into the Third Age, at least among learned people and scholarly texts. In fact, it can be the language of lore and knowledge in most of Southern Middle Earth. Many atlases would be 10

written in such language. An attempt to justify the use of Adunaic for naming :-) Gabriele VERYLEN (SEP, 16, 2002) This makes a good arguement for two strangers from different regions of Numenor, not Numenorean colonies. I believe Sindarin is the direct correlation with our own history's Latin, not Adunaic. Again see the mentioning of Umbar not being renamed by the King's Men. JASON TAYLOR (SEP 16, 2002) But, do we know that the Umbareans referred to themselves as such... or called their nation/city 'Umbar'. Or, is that just the Gondorian (and other) name for it? GABRIELE QUAGLIA (SEP, 16, 2002) Moreover, Umbar was controlled by Gondorians (Faithful) for many years, until the name became just this, a name from a forgotten language (like real cities - eg Palermo in Sicily from Carthaginian language, and even after the Roman conquest it kept its name). Well, it is possible that some Sindarin names used for many years were so rooted in the common language that they survived in the late years of Nmenor and later. For example Dar Egleriador in Anarike can become Dragleryor or something similar that sounds simple and good. VERYLEN (SEP, 27, 2002) Well, to my knowledge Tolkien's writing never changed the name of Umbar or any other location in Middle Earth/Numenor as a consequence of the Eldarin language prohibition "on Numenor". Furthermore, in this groups documents on Bellekar it is the only city of Near Harad to retain its name (all others have been mistakenly Adunized). Again, why would the King's Men retain the name Umbar and then rename every other place in this region, their greatest stronghold in Middle Earth? ERIC DUBOURG MAR 19, 2003 Subject: People names One thing to do would to expand your list of names for southern cultures (you started with the Haradrim). I would see first the Black Numenoreans (Umbar, but also the different other Black Numenoreans colonies - Bellakar, Anarik, Anbalukkhr, Tanturk, Sakal an-Khr), so Adnaic names. The first need would be the Adnaic names. Then, for the other lands : Harshandatt, the Egypt like realm. I think that Egyptian names should not be used at all, but instead what names to use? A research to do there. The Chyan Empire - Persian or Median names The Lynerian League - a melt between Greek and Roman names The Womaw / Vulmaw / Lochaw - Indonesian, Chinese, Japanese like ?? Here are some Adnaic names I use for the Black Numenoreans kingdoms of the south. May be there would a need for another Adnaic names, to have more change in names : Abruzr "Friend of Loyalty/Strength" = Vorondil Abrzagar "Strength Sword" = Vorommacil Adnuphazgn "Conqueror of the West" = Nmendacil (n.b. this name is probably blasphemous in context) Adnuzr "Obedient to the West" = Nmendur Adnzagar "Sword of the West" = Nmacil Anzr "Friend of Men" = Atandil Arzagar "Royal Sword" = Tarmacil 11

Azrakhd "Sea-warrior" = Erohtar Azrazagar "Sword of the Sea" = Ermacil Azruzr "Obedient to the Sea" = Erendur Avalzagar "Sword of the Valar" = Valmacil Azuluphazgn "Conqueror of the East" = Rmendacil Balakkhd "Ship-warrior" = Ciryohtar Balakzagar "Sword of the ships" = Ciryamacil Balkuzr "Devoted to ships" = Ciryandil Bubphazn "Wind-prince" = Srion Bubzr "Devoted to the wind" = Srindil Diruzr "Devoted to Earth" = Cemendur Dulgukhr "Dark Lord" = Herumor Dulguzagar "Dark Sword" = Mormacil Gimilphazgn "Conqueror of the Stars" = Elendacil Imrahn "Child of the World" = Ambarion Imruphazgn "Conqueror of the World" = Ambardacil Inzilnimir "Flower-elf" = Eldalt (I imagine the imagery "elf" = "supremely beautiful person" could still be used even if the society had no particular connection with the elves) Inzilpharaz "Golden flower" = Mallt (cf. _mallos_) Inzilurud "Flower of the Mountain" = Orollt Izinduzr "Lover of Truth" = Anwandil Kadaratt "Father of the City" = Ostatar Kadurzr "Devoted to the City" = Ostondil Kadurphazgn "Conqueror of the City" = Ostondacil Karubzr "Lover of horses" = Roccondil Khruphazgn "Conqueror of the South" = Hyarmendacil Minulzr "Devoted to Heaven" = Meneldil Minulzr "Obedient to Heaven" = Meneldur Narakhn "Child of the Eagle" = Thoronion Nlbth "Speaker to the Moon" = Isilquetar Nlzagar "Sword of the Moon" = Isilmacil Balakkhd "Smith of Gold" = Malatan Pharuzzr "Devoted to Gold" = Malandil, Maltandil Sakulzr "Devoted to the coast" = Falassendil Thnuzr "Devoted to the host" = Hostandil Thnzagar "Sword of the host" = Hostamacil Urduphazgn "Conqueror of the Mountains" = Orondacil Urduzr "Devoted to the mountains" = Orondil Urshuzr "Obedient to the River" = Srendur Urudkarb "Stallion of the Mountain" = Orrocco Urudzagar "Sword of the mountains" = Oromacil Urushkhd "Warrior of the river" = Srohtar Urushrab "Hound of the River" = Srehuan Urushzagar "Sword of the river" = Sirmacil rzr "Devoted to the Sun" = Anardil rzagar "Sword of the Sun" = Anarmacil, Narmacil Zadanatt "Father of the House" = Maratar Zadanzagar "Sword of the House" = Marmacil Zadunzr "Friend of the House" = Mardil Zadunzr "Obedient to the House" = Mardur Zyunzr "Friend of the Land" = Nrendil Zimragimil "Jewel Star" = Elemmr Zimraphazn "Jewel Prince" = Mrion Zimruzr "Devoted to Jewels" = Mrendil Abrpn "Strong-handed" Vorommaite Abrphazn "Strong Prince" Vorondarion Abruzr "Obedient to Strength" Vorondur Adnuzr "Devoted to the West" Nmendil Anyatt "Father of Men" Atanatar 12

Arphazn "Royal Prince" Tarcundo Artrik "Royal Pillar" Tarmatar rhn "Child of the King" Tarion rkhr "Royal Lord" Herutar Avalbn "Servant of the Valar" Valandur Avalzr "Devoted to the Valar" Valandil Avalzr "Obedient to the Valar" Valandur Azrahn "Child of the Sea" Erion Azrubn "Servant of the Sea" Erendur Balkuthr "Son of Ships" Ciryon Balkuzr "Obedient to the ships" Ciryandur Blphazn "Friend-prince" Serion, Nildarion Diruzr "Devoted to Earth" Cemendil Dirukhr "Ruler of Earth" Herucemen rubn "Servant of God" Erundur ruhn "Child of God" Eruyon ruzagar "Sword of God" Erumacil ruzr "Friend of God" Erundil ruzr "Obedient to God" Erundur Gimilbl "Friend of the Stars" Elendil Imruzr "Devoted to the World" Ambardil Kadarzagar "Sword of the City" Ostomacil Kadurbr "Lord of the City" Ostoher, Ostur Minalzagar "Heavenly Sword" Menelmacil Minulkhr "Ruler of Heaven" Herumenel Narkuzr "Devoted to the Eagle" Thorondil Nlhn "Child of the Moon" Isilion Nlzr "Devoted to the Moon" Isildil Nlzr "Obedient to the Moon" Isildur Pharazbr "Golden Lord" Malantur Phursnuzr "Devoted to Ulmo" Ulmondil Sakalthr "Son of the Coast" Falassion Sakulbr "Lord of the Coast" Falastur Sakulkhr "Ruler of the Coast" Herufalas, Falasser Trikbr "Pillar-Lord" Tarmatur Urdubr "Mountain-lord" Orotur Urshuzr "Devoted to the River" Srendil Zimbr "Lord of Lands" Nretur Zyumbl "Friend of the Land" Nrendil Zimrubr "Jewel-lord" Mretur Zimrukhr "Jewel Ruler" Herumir

SAMPSA RYDMAN (MAY 4, 2003)

Subject: Near Harad nomenclature I am currently working on map of Near Harad (including Umbar, Harondor and Khand) and could use a bit assistance, especially if Jason Beresford is reading this. - How would you translate "Castle Moonstone" (ICE Riders of Pelargir) in eldarin or adnaic? Ithil+gond+ost? Nlu+?+trik? - Does anybody know whether the settlements in the Umbar area have any established names? Apart from the castles (Caldr, Ardmir, Erdas, Isigir, Mars and Pellardur), the only umbarean town name I have seen is Barazn, haven and city about 50 miles north-west from Umbar. - What is the exact location of Lugarlur? In Chelkar, south of Carahram Nurn? Or in some other place, by the upper Harnen river? http://www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion

13

A Fourth Age Campaign ANDERS BLIXT (OCT 2, 2002) Hello, This is a really long post. My intention is to show how one may go about to create a Fourth Age campaign which connects back to the earlier ages, but without resurrecting any of the major bad-guys who have been destroyed once and for all. I do not citicize anyone's position; I merely wish to put out a method of achieiving an interesting postSauron crisis. The Queen Of Shadow: A Fourth Age Campaign [CUT] Northwestern Endor: Fa 151 The reunited Kingdom of Gondor & Arnor possesses de facto hegemony over northwestern Endor. Formally, the sister realms possess the lands between the Ered Luin, Forochel, the Misty Mountains, Ephel Dath, and Umbar (apart from the independent but allied state of Rohan and the semi-autonomous Shire). In practice, however, the King's authorities exercise very little control over the Dunlendish tribes of Enedhwaith and each harsh and gloomy and swept around the thus died all hope of Drwaith Iaur and the natives of sparsely-populated Harondor. Gondor [CUT] The city of Umbar and its rural surroundings are ruled by a governor (currently Prince Boromir's brother Beren) who is directly responsible to the King. The region has been slowly reintegrated into Gondor's territory, but King Eldarion believes it will take more time before it can be turned into a regular province of the realm. He is worried about secessionist strivings among its locals, since the leading citizens of Umbar, even without the interference of Sauron, clearly have other political priorities that Minas Tirith: Gondor looks to the northeast while Umbar looks to the south. [CUT] There are strange rumors coming out of Harad. Prince Boromir sends a team of trusted underlings (the PCs) to Umbar to collect information from Governor Beren. When they reach the city Beren has just been murdered under mysterious circumstances, causing worries among the Dnedain. The PCs start investigate the matters and finds clues of the Great Queen cult. [CUT]

14

JASON LOWMAN DEC 23, 2002 Are the rulers of Umbar in 1640 TA Corsairs? The reason I ask is that my NPC/PC in my current campaign is a Black Numenorean. I am thinking that his family was some sort of nobility but were deposed when the Corsairs took over Umbar after the kinstrife. Is it wrong of me to assume that prior to the Corsairs taking Umbar that it was probably 'ruled' by Black Numenoreans and Haradrim?? I am planning on using this character's background to launch a prolonged campaign to help him restore his family's position. The hook is that if the party helps this Black Numenorean he will in turn aid them by pledging forces to Arthedain's cause (one of the party members is from Arthedain and hopes to stop the Witch King) and promising to ally with Gondor if he is ever in the position to do so. For those of you perhaps more versed on Umbar's history - is this a plausible scenario? I have access to the material in the Umbar module and the little bits from the Kinstrife module, although I haven't gone through all of it. So now I am trying to figure out what the power structure in Umbar looks like and how my NPC/PC and his family can fit in. If anyone wants to discuss further, feel free to email me privately. STEVIE LANN DEC 23, 2002 Hi Jay Basically yes. Umbar is ruled as an Oligarchy of six (the captains of the havens) until it is re-taken by Gondor in 1810 by King Telumehtar. These are Corsairs as during this time it is a Corsair State. It is important to remember that the Corsairs will tolerate Black Numenoreans only if it suits them in their war against Gondor - the worship of Sauron is just as repudent to them as it is to the Gondoreans. Prior to the Corsairs siezing Umbar it was in fact ruled by Gondor (albiet loosley). The Black Numenoreas had tried to take it in around 1030 but had failed - although it did result in the death of King Ciryandil of Gondor. The lands surrounding Umbar were described as being 'very loyal' to the Corsairs - which was probably why by 2710/11 Umbar was at war with Gondor again only this time as a city of the Haradrim. After the war of the ring Umbar was once again by in Gondors hands. The only problem with your PC's background would be that it was a very long time ago that his family was a notable ruling family in Umbar (if he's a BlackNu) - if that's acceptable then there's no problem. JASON LOWMAN DEC 23, 2002 He may be a Black Numenorean, but he is not evil nor does he worship Sauron. The way I see it, there are probably many 'Black Numenoreans' who were actually still Faithful, but decided to live in ME. After Numenor sinks, they don't have a choice. I don't like for peoples to be railroaded into good and evil, black and white - that's not how things work in reality. I do see him needing to hide his Faithfulness to the 'good guys' (ie the Valar and elves) to a degree, but basically his family is one that still believes in the old ways (pre-corruption of Numenor) and have tried to maintain them as much as possible (he is named in both Adunaic and Sindarin). But I hear you saying that Umbar was under Gondor's rule before the Kinstrife, and that does seem right to me now that you mention it. I suppose that is what enabled the Corsairs to take it over so quickly - being seafarers themselves, they would be more sympathetic to the Pelargir contingent that eventually becomes the Corsairs. Perhaps it would make more sense to place this character's background in another part of Southern ME? If it was a Haradan loyal to The Shadow that deposed his family, it would make even more sense for him to be in opposition to The Shadow. Perhaps I can even use that as part of the campaign - just trying to figure out who backed the coup and then acting upon the information would be fun. Also, I can make the scale as big or keep it as small as I want with this approach.

15

So if it is to be elsewhere than Umbar, what would you all suggest as an alternative? But that is not possible. There are so many problems. A big one is that how far away it is from NW ME - most of the characters are from the NW area, and probably aren't too interested in travelling all over the (un)known world. THOMAS (DEC 23, 2002) > Are the rulers of Umbar in 1640 TA Corsairs? Probably yes. > Is it wrong of me to assume that prior to the Corsairs taking Umbar that it was probably 'ruled' by Black > Numenoreans and Haradrim?? IIRC before the Corsair (=Castamir's civil war faction) takeover of Umbar, this was part of the Gondorian empire/state and therfore hardly ruled by King's Men. The term "Black Nmenorean" is a Dnadan propaganda term to derogate these people (whther justified or not). Themselves they see as the rwani (Ad. King's Men), e.g. the majority faction among the Nmenoreans after S.A. 2000. > For those of you perhaps more versed on Umbar's history - is this a plausible scenario? Of course there are exceptions in every race, so this *might* be possible. On the whole however, the rwani and the Elendili do not get along well (each regarding the other as traitor or secessionist). Therefore someone with the worldview of the King's Men will receive a very cool welcome in any Dnadan court (if he is allowed there at all). This is true vice versa also of course. ERIC DUBOURG (DEC 23, 2002) Hi Jason, I would suggest as an alternative to use the realm of Anarik which is a Black Numenorean realm. Perhaps your character is trying to fight against the evils of Sakal an-Khr. it depends of course when you are setting your campaign. Either you can use the realm of Bellakar who would be also useful. Bellakar and Anarik have some cultural ties, ie. the hate of Sauron's cults (both represented in Umbar and in Sakal an-Khr). STEVIE LANN (DEC 23, 2002) Jay, Sorry mate I can't go with you on the 'faithful' Black Numenorean thing. By their defination they are unfaithful otherwise they are Dunedain. The Kings Men are the Kings Men by choice not just by birth. This being the case their hatred of the all the faithful will run deep (including the Corsairs may I add). For those who are decended from ancient Numenorean colonies then they will have made their beds long ago. There can be no reconciliation between those that worship Sauron (& Morgoth before him) & those who worship the Valar & revere the elves. In your particular case I would perhaps have a little re-think as to how much you want the other PC's to know. I personally like the idea of the Black Nu with an axe to grind - and what better way to bring down the rotton lot than from within? Otherwise just have him as a Dunedain from the south (Pel for example). JASON LOWMAN (DEC 23, 2002) Thomas wrote:"Of course there are exceptions in every race, so this *might* be possible. On the whole however, the rwani and the Elendili do not get along well (each regarding the other as traitor or secessionist). Therefore someone with the worldview of the King's Men will receive a very cool welcome in any Dnadan court (if he is allowed there at all). This is true vice versa also of course." I'm trying to say, however, that this particular Black Numenorean and his family are not King's Men, but 'closeted' 16

Faithful. I don't see why that's not possible. Perhaps the fortunes of this family rise and fall depending on who is in power in Umbar. While Gondor oversees it, they are placed in a position of some power since it is known that they are, indeed, more friendly to the Free Peoples/Faithful. Then the Corsairs come in and they are effectively placed in exile - much like Aragorn later in the 3rd Age. There is also the possiblity that he is alone in his quest against The Shadow. Perhaps he had some sort of religious revelation - a dream visit by Ulmo, perhaps? The character already exists and we have played a number of sessions. The Arthedain noble does not trust the Bl Numenorean for obvious reasons, but he will show them he is 'on their side' and can be trusted. So since he is already in play, I just need to fill out his background details in a way that 'makes sense'. I thought you may mention Bellakar or Anarike, but unfortunately I know even less about those areas than I do about Umbar. I realise the material is in the 'files' section, but I think it's more a matter of time than anything. Are you saying that these 'kingdoms' are not allied with The Shadow?? My campaign is set in 1640 TA - just like most MERP modules suggest. Could you perhaps tell me what the political situation is like in Bellakar and Anarike during that time period?? Please keep the ideas/suggestion/criticisms coming!! ERIC DUBOURG (DEC 23, 2002) Hi all, in fact the inhabitants of Pel are not Dunedain, but Black Numenoreans. This was a big mistake of the Shadow in the South module, a mistake that needed to be corrected. All Black Numenoreans don't worship Sauron. JASON LOWMAN (DEC 23, 2002) Ok, I agree, a true 'Black Numenorean' is, by definition, one of the King's Men. But he's not Dunedain, since that implies Arnor or Gondor, does it not? If that is a false assumption on my part, then I can go ahead and call him Dunedain, although he's really just a 'lesser Numenorean'. :) And what do you mean by 'axe to grind', Steve? As in make him a mole of sorts? I was planning on him being a little more heroic, but it wouldn't change things too much. Really I'm just trying to use him as a vehicle to get the party to tarry in the South a bit longer than perhaps some of the party may *really* like. If the campaign stays together long enough, we'll eventually head back to the NW, but I've always wanted to run a campaign in the South a bit - strange languages, strange cultures, and for those that have read the books, unfamiliarity. ERIC DUBOURG (DEC 23, 2002) Hi all, > I'm trying to say, however, that this particular Black Numenorean and his family are not King's Men, but 'closeted' > Faithful. I don't see why that's not possible. Perhaps the fortunes of this family rise and fall depending on who is in > power in Umbar. While Gondor oversees it, they are placed in a position of some power since it is known that they > are, indeed, more friendly to the Free Peoples/Faithful. Then the Corsairs come in and they are effectively placed > in exile - much like Aragorn later in the 3rd Age. There is also the possiblity that he is alone in his quest against > The Shadow. Perhaps he had some sort of religious revelation - a dream visit by Ulmo, perhaps? The character > already exists and we have played a number of sessions. The Arthedain noble does not trust the Bl Numenorean > for obvious reasons, but he will show them he is 'on their side' and can be trusted. So since he is already in play, I > just need to fill out his background details in a way that 'makes sense'. This is a very good idea > I thought you may mention Bellakar or Anarike, but unfortunately I know even less about those areas than I do > about Umbar. I realise the material is in the 'files' section, but I think it's more a matter of time than anything. Are > you saying that these 'kingdoms' are not allied with The Shadow?? My campaign is set in 1640 TA - just like most > MERP modules suggest. Could you perhaps tell me what the political situation is like in Bellakar and Anarike > during that time period?? Bellakar This realm is currently ruled by King Khruzr, who is Vinyaron's second son. He is somewhat nicknamed "the 17

Stranger", but he has both Gondorian and Bellakarian ancestry, through her mother. He married Belkal, the last inheritor of Bellakar realm. Bellakar is now unified since less than forty years. There was a civil war between the North (strongly allied with Umbar) and the South (which has more ties with Gondor). The realm is not allied with the Shadow, but there is a prince, Zaimbar, the little son of the last Northern Bellakar king (Narakhn), who allied himself with Akhorahil the Storm King, in an hope to recover his coveted throne. This is approximately the time when Tulwang fall to the Army of the Southern Dragon, and Zaimbar has a major play in this event. The detailed history is available on the file section, and this specific part can be found also on the guild companion site. Anarik This realm is not allied to the Shadow. Their kings affirm that they both descend from Soronto (which is false), from Lokhuzor (Akhorahil's son, the prince who hated with passion all that his father did and destroyed with pleasure all traces of Shadow in the Chyan Empire), and Tar-Palantir (through Tar-Miriel's third son). Actually, the Shadow is not at that time in Sakal an-Khr, but in Codya. Anarik is a major power at this time. Here are some events, that could help you to locate where is the Shadow. : 1537 - 1544 The Jin heritage, a war between the No-jin, the later Phaxshra, the Hn (interior Codya), the Shu (Dral lords) with the intervention of external powers, Anarik and Sakal an-Khr. Codya is divided at the end into ten quarelling kingdoms. Twenty years later, three of these realms remained : the Hn in central Codya, Western Codya (once again conquerred by Anarik), the Shu (who absorbed the No-jin realm) in Eastern Codya. The Hn accesses to power, through the efforts of diplomacy made by Sakal an-Khr. 1550 - 1570 Just after the death of King Abrpn (1492-1550), whose agents succeeded to place a Hn on Codyan throne, a renewal of active piracy around the islands of the Southern Archipelago forced Sakal an-Khr to intervention, weakening for decades the realm. The Hn, just like the Jin before them, maintained however the link with Sakal an-Khr for tradition : king choice (still nominally approved by the Emperor of Sakal an-Khr), ceremonies and trade relationships. But they also revived the link with Lochas Drus, by sending diplomats and warriors to their once mother country. The Shu submitted to the Hn peacefully. 1604 Ukhn Hn choose Ishi Chensh as his first adviser, despite the strong opposition of King Zadunzr (1597 1640). The wealthy and corrupted Ishi Chensh is part of a prominent Brdi family, recently arrived in Codya. He became the acting governor of Myrn Shryac, while Ulkhn Hn remains the King of Codya. 1610 Khruzir, son of King Vinyarion of Gondor, becomes the new King of a reunified Bellakar. 1627 Ukhn Hn's son confirms Jhi Chensh as the acting governor of Myrn Shryac, despite the strong opposition of Sakal an-Khr ambassador, despite the proofs gathered by the ambassador on the corruption of Jhi Chensh and his secret projects of taking power in Codya, in place of the Hn King. The ambassador is revocated, and Jhi Chensh is awarded the right to give the title to his sons. 1634-39 Sshn Hn, Ukhn Hn's son is mysteriously assassinated in Drej Uriac, which confirms the fears of Sakal an-Khr ambassador. Jhi Chensh establish another son of Ukhn Hn as the new King of Codya, promising to him to search for those who murdered his brother. Jhi Chensh, the Codyan tyrant (who could be easily compared to Sorkul Ml back in Second Age) openly ask the help of the Deprivers sect and the Zurghr to begin a serious war against Sakal an-Khr and Anarik. The war ends with the death of the tyrant and with a tribute of 30.000 gold pieces each year for Sakal an-Khr and Anarik. 1680 The Hn rule is abolished in Codya, replaced by the Chensh rule. The Chensh regime became more and and more aggressive and paranoid, for that they fear aggression from Balkulni and Sakal an-Khr. GABRIELE QUAGLIA (DEC, 23, 2002) Hello Jason, >Are the rulers of Umbar in 1640 TA Corsairs? Yes, they are: briefly, here's how it goes the leadership in Umbar (according to LotR): SA c. 1200 - 3319: the city is a Nmenorean colony. Perhaps the political structures varies, as the city improves and gets more and more important (from a simple military outpost to a pseudo-republic where a royal governor rules, adviced by local representatives of powerful families - but this is only my speculation, no evidence from LotR). SA 3319 - TA 933: in this time Umbar is independent, and it would establish a new political structure, perhaps oligarchic in nature. TA 933 - 1448: Umbar suffers Gondorean domination. I'm sure Kin-strife module offers something plausible for the leadership, which I would beintersted to know. Perhaps Gondorean families move into the city and occupy all positions of power, swearing allegiance to the king of Osgiliath. They could become vassals in the South (again, just my speculations). This period is marked by warfare with the Haradrim people of the surrounding lands. TA 1448 - 1810: Castamir's supporters repair in Umbar, and fortify there waging a corsair-war against the half18

blooded Kings of Gondor. According to ICE, Umbar becomes an oligarchy. IMHO, whoever rules, he is pure blooded Dnadan, and racial laws should get very severe, even more than in Arthedain. IIRC, Tolkien never talks about the King of Umbar, or even a Corsair (singular form), so it is possible that power is shared. However, Castamir's blood was still valued, as stated in Appendic A. Perhaps Tolkien has in mind the northern African cities of late Middle Ages, ruled by a military elite of corsairs, and a single Pasha who presided over a council. TA 1810 - ?: King Teluhmetar retakes Umbar, Castamir's blood is extinguished, but I can't find when the city is lost. Shortly after, probably. Then, Umbar remains Shadow-controlled until the fall of Sauron. Dnadan power most probably wanes in favour of Haradrim. From the first years of the Fourth Age, Umbar would experience political troubles, as the dark priesthood is kicked out. Elessar probably conquers the city during his reign. > The reason I ask is that my NPC/PC in my current campaign is a Black Numenorean. I am thinking that his family > was some sort of nobility but were deposed when the Corsairs took over Umbar after the kinstrife. Is it wrong of > me to assume that prior to the Corsairs taking Umbar that it was probably 'ruled' by Black Numenoreans and > Haradrim?? Yes, as it was controlled by Gondor. The nobility would be of Gondorean origin (although some nobles may be of mixed blood with Haradrim or, more probably, local Dnedain). When the Corsairs come, all non-pure Dnadan nobles become outcasts, and supporters of Eldacar lose their power, too. Your PC may belong to one of such families. However, I'm not sure what you mean by Black Nmenorean. If you mean Dnadan (of any origin) mixed with some Haradan blood, it's OK. If you mean Dnadan opposed to Gondor, the Faithful, and friendship with the Elves, then it's hard to have one of them ruling in Umbar in these years. If you mean Dnadan who traces his ancestry outside Arnor and Gondor, then it's hard but not impossible, if his family was loyal to Gondor. > I am planning on using this character's background to launch a prolonged campaign to help him restore his > family's position. The hook is that if the party helps this Black Numenorean he will in turn aid them by pledging > forces to Arthedain's cause (one of the party members is from Arthedain and hopes to stop the Witch King) and > promising to ally with Gondor if he is ever in the position to do so. This is difficult... Umbar and Arthedain can hardly be sympathethic, althoght they are the last Dnadan fortresses of Western Middle Earth. Gondor, on the other hand, promotes mixed unions, and would be considered 'barbarized' by them. However, Arthedain prefers to support Gondor against Umbar, as it is a more useful ally (bigger and nearer). Gondor is interested in retaking the strategic Umbar to control the Haradrim with her armies, and keep trade free with the South. If you don't mind changing history in your campaign, it is possible for Umbar's leadership to change before 1810, and to turn friendly towards Gondor and Arthedain, and even Bellakar. It would not be a piece of cake, though, to negotiate peace between Gondor and Umbar. Hope this helps :-) Gabriele STEVIE LANN (DEC 24, 2002) Yes I hear what your saying but by saying that all Black Numenoreans don't worship Sauron is a bit like saying all Nazi's don't worship Hitler - but their selfish and racial outlook may be very similar to his. There is always the exception but by and large that is what they're all about. Tokiens work is littered with their selfish destructive nature and they are quiet clearly 'not good'. They are not some 'other' Dunedain race that has just got a bit of bad press because they destroyed Numenor and changed the shape of the planet forever. By the way - the vast majority of the cities in the copy of 'Shadow in the South' that I possess has many of the inhabitants as Black Numenoreans as opposed to Dunedain. I think that this was a mistake by ICE because I don't think that just being born in the south makes you one automatically. Being one of the Kings Men is not just racial but is also one of beliefs and customs. The Middle East today is strewn with people who racially look very similar but are only different by the clothes, beliefs and customs. This would have been similar for the Black Numenoreans & the Dunedain especially as at one time the were in fact all Numenoreans.

19

What I'm trying to say is that I thought it was a mistake by ICE to put so much emphasis as basically southern Dunedain being listed as Black Numenoreans when clearly their customs & outlook are very similar to that of their northern brethen in Gondor. The Kings Men by TA 1640 have really had their day and are by and large a dying race which is a far cry from what is written by ICE in their 'Shadow in the South' release. SAMPSA RYDMAN (DEC 24, 2002) > Yes I hear what your saying but by saying that all Black Numenoreans don't worship Sauron is a bit like saying all > Nazi's don't worship Hitler - but their selfish and racial outlook may be very similar to his. There is always the Well it's a matter of perspective isn't it? And people's motives do not usually go well to the good/bad axis... Take Umbar, for instance. A quotation from Lalaith's article I read some time ago: "A notion that may come surprising to the historians of Middle-earth is that the minority policies of the Black Nmenreans were much more liberal than those of Nmenr and the northern two Realms in Exile alike. While the Line of Elros kept inbreeding for many generations, Gondor observed with suspicion whether the ethnic purity of the royal heirs was maintained and even Aragorn liked to refer with pride to the purity of his Nmenrean descent, the lords of Umbar never had such reservations. And so, as a Gondorian chronicler scornfully remarked, "after the Fall of Sauron, their race swiftly dwindled or became merged with the Men of Middle-earth." (KR, iv) This was definitely written by the same spirit that led to the Kin-strife! The question may then be allowed what, after the War of the Last Alliance, the Black Nmenreans indeed had done to provoke the final clash with their northern neighbour". STEVIE LANN (DEC 24, 2002) Sorry, but I don't think this addresses the question. I wasn't drawing pararells between Hitlers politics on ethnics & those of the Black Numenoreans. I was drawing a parody how one is usually linked to the other. JOE MANDALA (FEB 4, 2003) I just wanted to point out to anyone working on anything relating to Umbar that they should check out Chris Seeman's essay on Umbar in the current (Feb 2003) issue of The Guild Companion. (http://www.guildcompanion.com) JASON LOWMAN (FEB 4, 2003) I read the article, and I'll go ahead and say that I agree with his assessment of Umbar. I don't really think it's that far out of line from what's already been published though, either. I already figured that much of the coastal areas of Harondor and Near Harad would be ruled by both 'Corsairs' and Haradrim. You also have to figure that due to the 'occupation' of Umbar by Gondor for a while before the mid-1400's TA that there may have been something of an influx of Dunedain blood. Then, when The Usurper effectively took back Umbar, some would have been sympathetic to Gondor and probably left (perhaps after trying to combat Castimir and his cronies), some would have stayed and become (some of) the new leaders of Umbar, and still others were probably displaced and went to other areas of the Haradwaith. At the same time, this does not preclude native Haradrim also being able to seize some control and power, as Chris implied, through arranged marriages and whatnot. So by 1640, Umbar is ruled by a number of different factions, it seems to me. You've got Castamir's kin, who are mostly full-blooded Dunedain, a group of men with varying degrees of Haradrim and Dunedain blood, and a large number of native Haradrim. And I'm not necessarily saying that they're working against each other, but there's probably a lot of politics and intrigue going on - just like real life. This is pretty much the Umbar I was going to portray, anyway. And Harondor is very similar as well, imo.

CORY RUSHTON (FEB 5, 2003)

I'd agree with you both counts, Jason. Chris is as thorough as always, but nothing in it seemed a great revelation. Umbar was always like that for me, as well.

20

Adventures

JASON LOWMAN (MAR 4, 2003)

Subject: Adventuring in Harondor I am currently running a campaign that started in Fanuilond in southern Gondor and is now in Kas Shadoul - the administrative centre for Sangahyandim, who is a lord of Umbar (apparently, the lords of Umbar have holdings in many areas, not just immediately around Umbar - I'm still working out details). I had originally planned for my PC/NPC to be from somewhere near Umbar, but after looking at Umbar's history, I've decided that he is instead one of Marahil's (one of the Prince of Dol Amroth's bannerets) spies working in Harandor (and points further south). The party first beat down a group of pirates operating out of a fortress on the 'mouth' of the river Harnen after they had been attacked by these same pirates. From there, they went to Kas Shadoul to find a smith of some repute to fashion some nice items for them (they had to spend all their loot somehow). I have created a map of Kas Shadoul and the small Numenorean fort that guard the port. Once in Kas Shadoul, they discovered that there has been a huge increase in bandit activity in the area. Also, my PC/NPC (Sakalazon) told them of his 'masters' desire to have someone break into the fort and search for documents talking about Sangahyandim's plans, troop movements, alliances, etc. They agreed and through some careful sneaking about while Sangahyandim is in Umbar attending to business there, they procured some interesting documents. One of these documents was addressed to someone called Huinore thanking him for the help he had given to Sangahyandim in furthering his plans to seize more power and control and to incite the people to lend additional support to attacking and harasing Gondor. (There are a couple of interesting hooks here - firstly, one of the PC's has a mysterious elven father whose name was Fuinor. Unbeknownst to the PC or the rest of the party [although supposed, since the names are the same, just one Noldorin and the other Sindarin], Fuinor and Huinore are one in the same person - a Noldo mystic who has been seduced by power and secretly works for Sauron through one of the Nazgul's servants. Secondly, it is this Huinore/Fuinor that is inciting some Variag tribes to push westward, which in turn is pushing the Harondor tribes to attack caravans and whatnot in Harondor. This is all part of Sangahyandim's plans. He will return from Umbar to drive out these Harad bandits, discover the fact that it is because theVariags are being pushed west, and blame it all on Gondor through forged documents and whatnot. This in turn will undermine possible truces/treaties between Gondor and Umbar.) They also found an ancient book talking about the Palantir and other seeing-stones. This will be a hook to get them interested in going even further south so that I can possibly use the MERP module 'Hazards of the Harad Wood', among others (there is an adventure that has a couple of minor seeing-stones created by a master craftsman in 2nd Age Numenor). However, if the PC's decide to investigate the cause of the increased bandit activity, they may be able to thwart many of Fuinor and Sangahyandim's plans as well as have an interesting encounter with Fuinor. Next session will more than likely determine what will happen next. Anyway, I wanted to throw this out on the list to see what others thought. And I have to agree that there's not much on Harondor out there. This list is one of your best bets. I've found some very helpful maps in the 'files' section, and the members have been able to give me some feedback. Of course, the thing with the Variag tribes may not fit with the excellent work that Wes Frank has done on Harondor, but I can't let that stop me from creating a nice, tangled plot for the PC's to perhaps follow. Also, I have many, many more things to consider and try to iron out. But after being stumped, getting frustrated, being stumped again, dropping ideas, picking them back up again, and all of that, I'm finally to the point where it feels like a pretty grand and interesting campaign will come together. Comments are more than welcome.

21

JASON LOWMAN (JAN 24, 2003) Subject: Adventure Wow, it sure seems a lot harder for me to come up with a good 'game plan' for my players here in my older years. When I was younger, I didn't care so much about the details, or maybe I was just more up-to-date with Tolkien's world then I am now (I had more time for myself, not having to worry about work and bills and whatnot). My players are nearly finished with the 'Pirates of Pelargir' module. I know I've asked it before, but where do I send them next? I have just read some of the excellent material on Near Harad by Wes Frank, and it's helped me a bit. But before I send them off, there is something I need to resolve. Let me elaborate. They have liberated the 'Moonstone Fortress'. There doesn't seem to be anyone else to claim it, so why wouldn't these adventurers simply use the loot (a not insignificant amount) they acquired from the previous owners (a group of pirates) and claim the fortress as their own? Sure, a couple of the characters have 'bigger' plans, but not so for the rest of them. Would there perhaps be a tribe of Haradrim that would get wind of this and try to take it as their own? What of Gondor or a local Harandor 'government'? What involvement might they have? And if it's a Haradaic tribe or some Corsairs taking control, why would the party be ok with that? Wouldn't that just be replacing one 'evil' group with another? (These characters are on the side of The Free Peoples.) Hopefully someone sees my quandary and can offer some suggestions. Other than that, I do have some ideas for where to try to get the party next, but it's getting a bit frustrating. I wish I had put in more prep time before I even started running my 'campaign', since in some ways I seem to have backed myself in a corner. I think I would like to get them moving back towards the northwest of Endor after initially thinking of pushing them towards Bozisha-Dar and points even further south. The biggest problem I had with this was filling in the blanks between Gondor and there. Also, without Sea Law, running the ship combats and other ocean traveling things didn't seem to go very smoothly. Anyway, enough whining. Thanks for any suggestions anyone might provide. :)

JASON LOWMAN (JAN 24, 2003) Yes, I have been thinking about the party coming to realise very quickly that trying to take control of the fortress would not be a good idea, as they find a battle raging between perhaps some Umbarean or local Harondor forces and a group of tribal haradrim.....that could put some fear into them. :) But who is in 'power' in this costal area of Harondor? Gondor? Umbar? Some local haradrim or Corsair warlords? I think Wes Frank's article implies that Sangyahando is one of the ones in power there, but I'm not so sure I like this. What about Adunaphel? Where is she at this time (I know from LoME 2 that she is in 'Lurgulor' but I don't know where that is...)? As far as how to get the party to the next step of the campaign - this is where I'm having my trouble. No real shortage of ideas, but more a way that I find believable, interesting, etc, not only for me, but also the players. One of the players is an emissary of Arthedain to Gondor, and my PC/NPC character is also (unbeknownst the the party, and different from his original origins) a Gondorian sent to spy on the region. So those two could definitely be called upon to investigate just about anything. And perhaps that's my problem - too many options! :) But I think you're right, Daniel. I need to simply come up with some plot hooks and let the players decide which to follow. Still, I have a lot of work to do. :) And Dag-Frode: It is 1640 of the Third Age. I'm sure we will eventually get back up to Arthedain, as one of the PC's has made a pledge to himself and his family to try to destroy the Witch-King and Angmar. It's just a matter of when and how! (To get back to Arthedain, I doubt he'll be able to do much about the Witch-King.) DANIEL GRAU (JAN 24, 2003) > But who is in 'power' in this costal area of Harondor? Gondor? Umbar? Some local haradrim or > Corsair warlords? I think Wes Frank's article implies that Sangyahando is one of the ones in > power there, but I'm not so sure I like this. I think so, in any case the nearest power center in the area is Umbar, so they're the ones who have the winning side in any conflict or claim over the fortress. 22

> What about Adunaphel? Where is she at this time (I know from LoME 2 that she is in 'Lurgulor' but I don't know > where that is...)? I don't believe Adunaphel would manifest herself openly. If she hears about the Moonstone Fortress released from Gedron and the pirates, perhaps she will send spies to gather information and take profit from the situation. But she won't act openly because: 1- in 1640 TA this would attract undesired attention from the Free Peoples and 2- you would loose the option of showing her power to the players in a future (I hope that this is a far future, because it would imply that at that point your campaign has been running for a long long time). > No real shortage of ideas, but more a way that I find believable, interesting, etc, not only for me, but also the > players. One of the players is an emissary of Arthedain to Gondor, and my PC/NPC character is also > (unbeknownst the the party, and different from his original origins) a Gondorian sent to spy on the region. So > those two could definitely be called upon to investigate just about anything. And perhaps that's my problem - too > many options! In many occasions are the players themselves who 'ask' for the next adventures ("It would be nice...", "It would be interesting...", "I have always desired..." and things like these). And the resort to move the party to another place must not necessarily be the plot itself for the next adventure: it may be a secondary plot that loses interest to the main one (be it Arthedain-Angmar, or Bellakar...) once the moment has arrived.

JOHN P. MADISON MAR 11, 2003

Subject: Umbar/Harad and the Numenorian colonies: circa 3200's S.A Would there be any interest in flushing out this time period? I have some motivation in doing so due to the fact I have a character that comes from these lands during this time. I think it would be interesting to play during a time when Numenor has colonies, and Umbar is perhaps one of the most developed ports/cities. The faithful have not arrived and founded the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor, so there is a wild land yet to be tamed. Instead of Osgiliath you have a ferry crossing fort in its infancy as a city of splendor. There is a powerful Sauronic presence yet and would make a nice backdrop for a campaign prior to the fall of Numenor or the Last Alliance forming. Any thoughts?

ERIC DUBOURG (MAR 11, 2003)

Hi all, Well, this is a very interesting period. Define a 3000 SA setting for the Numenorean colonies, with separate areas : * Umbar/Harad/Bellakar * Anbalukkhr / Tulwang * The Seven Lands * Tantrak * Anarik and Sakal an-Khr in Ormal Bay

23

JASON LOWMAN (APR 17, 2003)

I have a question. In the Northwestern Middle-Earth Gazeteer it says that Sanghyandim's administrative centre is in Kas Shadoul. In Lords of Middle-Earth vol 2, there is an entry for a Sangahyando who was the younger brother of Angamaite, making him Castamir's grandson. My question is - are they the same person? Because in the entry in LoME2 it says Sangahyando is assassinated in roughly TA1636 (they had ravaged Gondor's coast in TA1634), but the NW ME Gazeteer seems to be a TA1640 'document'. In my game currently, Sangahyandim is the local warlord, so to speak, of the area around Harnun Dat, and a smaller player in Umbar's politics trying to raise his status. If he's the grandson of Castamir, then that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially since they had achived a lot of popularity in Umbar due to their raids on Gondor, and since it is TA1640 in the campaign, he would be dead already if he's the same person from the LoME2 entry. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit now, but I hope someone has an opinion on these details, if I haven't compelety confused everyone with my verbosity. :)

SAMPSA RYDMAN (APR 17, 2003)

Sangahyandion (born in 1608) is the only son and heir of Sangahyando (1560-1636), younger brother of Angamait and great-grandson of Castamir the Usurper. Kas Shadoul is haradaic for Ramlond, capital of Harnen provinces and a great haven. Ramlond was the traditional power center for Castamirioni dynasty from the days of Castamait, grandfather of Sangahyandion. It was there where he sought aid and protection after being ousted from power by the scheming Regency Council and Lord Morlaen, his ancient relative (actually, he was the uncle of Castamir and perpetrator of the Kin-Strife). Morlaen and Lord-Captain Menelmir reestablished the traditional umbareal Duumvirate and Council of Captains in 1470. Denied of any position in Umbar's government, Castamait left for his relatives in Ethir Harnen and started his own was against Gondor without any support from the Council. Over decades the number of raiders and the size of the raids increased significantly, and in 1540, the Men of Gondor identified Castamait as their most dangerous enemy. King Aldamir of Gondor moved to stop the raids and took Harondor after particulary heavy fighting. Council of Captains sent significant reinforcements to Ethir Harnen and king Aldamir was slain when Umbarean forces retook Gobel Mrlond, though it was later lost again. Angamait and Sangahyando were his sons and architects of the great naval strike to Pelargir, which returned the power in Umbar back to Castamirioni family. Angamait and Sangahyando were made consuls and elevated as leaders of the Council of Captains, but Sangahyando was assasinated few years later. Angamait retained his rle as Grand Admiral and leader of Umbar. Childless, he adopted his brother's son, who was already a great fighter and skilled general. Sangahyandion won many battles for Umbar and had great popularity - he was the first Castamirioni after Castaher son of Castamir who was universally accepted as potential heir to the Winged Crown of Gondor. - Sampsa (having his own campaign set in Umbar and southern Gondor...)

JASON LOWMAN (APR 17, 2003)

Wow, thanks Sampsa, that gives me a lot of information. I think that perhaps I made my version of Kas Shadoul a bit too small (I think it's a little bit smaller than Pelargir in my version), but that's not a huge deal. Who is this Sangahyandion you mention? Also, you don't say anything about Sangahyandim, so what is your opinion on who he is? And finally, do you have any maps or npcs or story arcs that you would be willing to share with me concerning Harondor, Umbar, etc? I'd be happy to give you a nice synopsis of my campaign, too, if you'd be interested. I also have a scetchy map of Kas Shadoul, but I still need to get it scanned. I also have some issues with some of the maps in the files section on the yahoogroups site concerning the placement of Ramlond. It seems to conflict with the map in 'Pirates of Pelargir', does it not? Anyway, any further help would be nice, and collaboration is usually not a bad thing. :) Oh, one last thing - how far does Sangahyandim's lordship reach in the Harondor area? And is there any Gondorian holdings in that area? I'm assuming that not every city, town, and village are active enemies of Gondor - I would imagine that some pretty much keep to themselves, or have enough worries about Variags and Haradaic nomads. Any thoughts here? 24

Anyway, thanks again for any and all help.

SAMPSA RYDMAN APR 17, 2003

> Wow, thanks Sampsa, that gives me a lot of information. I think that perhaps I made my version of Kas Shadoul a > bit too small (I think it's a little bit smaller than Pelargir in my version), but that's not a ICE Southern Gondor (Beresford-Blixt) establishes the population of Ramlond as 15,000. A great city of its own, but cannot be compared to ancient havens of Pelargir and Umbar. To my knowledge, there is no man called Sangahyandim, but I don't have the Gazetteer you are referring to. Perhaps it is a spelling error, and should be Sangahyandion? The commander mentioned in ICE Shadow of the South was named Sangarunya. He propably belonged to the same Castamirioni family (for his name is high eldarin, not adnaic - very peculiar thing in far south!). > files section on the yahoogroups site concerning the placement of Ramlond. It seems to conflict with the map in > 'Pirates of Pelargir', does it not? The map in ICE Pirates of Pelargir is erroneus in many ways; omitting half of Harondor... But the placement of Ramlond seems correct. However, in the map in the files section Gobel Mrlond (Kas Marzk in haradaic, Caras Mirilond in older ICE maps) has moved to the wrong side of the cape of Ras Arish. It should be nearer to Ramlond. > Oh, one last thing - how far does Sangahyandim's lordship reach in the Harondor area? And is there any > Gondorian holdings in that area? I'm assuming that not every city, town, and village are active Sangahyandion's lordship might reach as far upriver as Amrn. Castamirioni dynasty readily made an alliance with the adjacent kingdoms of Harad that till then had been tributary to Gondor, convincing them to join the rebellion and support their side (and pay tribute rather to them). Harondor, belonging to the traditionalist faction in the Kin-Strife, once supported the Usurper to a man. The loss of Harondor in the 16th Century came as a great shock to the people of Umbar. Refuges from Harondor, particulary the surviving large landowners and aristocracy accused the Council of Captains of incompetence. Thereafter Harondor became a frontier march of Gondor, ruled under military jurisdiction, but holding it was costly. When Gondor was decimated by the Plague, Sangahyandion seized the moment and captured Gobel Mrlond in 1637. He drove the loyalists back to Barad Harn and besieged Amon Eithel in 1640. Gondorians fortified the hills of Emyn Laer and tried many long years to dislodge Sangahyandion from his positions, but always in vain. It was until the campaign of 1720-21 when king Tarondor succeeded in recapturing Harondor from Sangahyandion, who was slain at Mrlond. So, I could safely assume that gondorian holdings include Methir, Eithel Thurin, Nen Falastir, Barad Harn, Hyarpend, Arthrad Poros and Amon Eithel, and some other villages in Emyn Laer. About 2/3 of Harondor is in Sangahyandion's grasp, not to mention his unquestionable popular support.

JASON LOWMAN (APR 17, 2003)

So it looks like I need to get a copy of Southern Gondor. :) Many of these cities you're mentioning, I'm not familiar with. Are they from maps in the Southern Gondor module, or something from the files section on the yahoogroups? Since I was not aware of these events such as the Gobel Mirlond capture or the seige of Amon Eithel, it is much more peaceful in the area in my campaign than it should be, but that can be remedied somewhat. At this point, Sangahyandim (Sangahyandion?) is in Umbar but will be returning shortly. The pc's have found that he is plotting to attack Gondor, so the seige of Amon Eithel can still happen in my campaign, and actually may fit pretty well with what I have going on. Thanks again, Sampsa, you've been a lot of help. And I certainly won't turn you down if you have any additional information you can share with me. :)

SAMPSA RYDMAN (APR 27, 2003)

25

For your information: My MERP site is now partially in english. http://www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion

EDUBOURG_FR (APR 29, 2003)

Subject: Re: Lindefirion MERP site Hello all, I add this site into the link section. I loved the Umbar section (may be the beginning of the revision of the old Umbar module)

GABRIELE QUAGLIA (APR 29, 2003)

Cheers, Sampsa, one of the best MERP sites I've ever looked upon! It's clear, complete, and really good looking.

SAMPSA RYDMAN (MAY 5, 2003)

Subject: 2.Ed. Umbar - Warcraft. I just completed an essay on Castamirioni-Umbarean army. Comments, or criticism? http://www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion/umbar_warcraft.html

SAMPSA RYDMAN (MAY 7, 2003)

>I do have a question...what is this city called 'Dupalay' south of >Umbar? I'm not too familiar with my Bellekar history, or much of any >history in that area ICE neglected between Umbar and the Bozisha-Dar. It is Dsalan, do not be puzzled by the elaborate hand-writing! Dsalan is the second largest settlement in the district of Umbar, situated on the estuary of the Gondeithel. It has a fairly large population of 5,000, of diverse origin (dnadan/black nmenrean/haruze/tedjin/sakalai). It is a vigorous market-town with sizable fishing industry, in addition to functioning as an important military outpost. If I remember correctly, Dsalan was originally nmenrean township independent of Umbar's rule. The latter annexed it in some point in history early in the Third Age (6th-7th century perhaps? Does somebody know?)

SAMPSA RYDMAN (MAY 8, 2003)

Here is an overview of the unedited total map of Bellakar. Because of scanning and reconstructing problems, Bozisha-Miraz, the Dune Sea and Upper Harnen are not visible. I hope it makes justice to Eric Dubourg's creation. http://www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion/bellakar_total.jpg Similar map, but much smaller in size, covering Harondor, Near Harad and Khand is well underway. My next goal is to prepare an eastern pair of the Bellakar map, in the same size and scale, to cover Sirayn, Harshandatt, Codya, Bulchyades and the Bay of Ormal. After that, is there a another project in need of general maps? Apart from the mapping business, I'll be writing two 1650's sourcebooks - Umbar 1455-1810 and Khand 1500-1900. They will follow my own interpretation of MERP and Middle-Earth, so they might not be totally compatible with other Fan-Modules eastern and southern creations. I still strive to eliminate all contradictions, while keeping my low-fantasy, pseudo-historical style.

JASON LOWMAN (MAY 8, 2003)

Ah, I see it now. Thanks. And please do continue on with your fine work. It is quite excellent. I wouldn't worry about being too compatible with the other fan modules. It simply adds to the effort to make everything conform together. As a matter of fact, my campaign probably is not totally compatible with all that has been written by the wonderful authors here, but I don't really have the time to read everyone's material and still create some new of my own for my players. We play every other week, and considering other hobbies and a full time job, well, you get the point. 26

But I do look forward to continued articles concerning Umbar, Harondor, and any other areas that may or may not help me in my own campaign in those areas. Of course I also welcome the other authors inputs. Still, with my players still working on this one leg of my devious plot in Harondor, Bellakar is not in the forefront of my mind, so I haven't had a chance to look over the large amounts of material available for that area. Keep up the fine work everyone!

JASON LOWMAN (MAY 8, 2003)

Ok, in my campaign, the pc's have uncovered a plot by one of Adunaphel's minions (although even he is unsure of her true identity) to frame Gondor and give Sangahyandim (or Sangahyandion...the governor of Harondor, whichever is correct) just cause to openly attack Gondor and thereby gain fame, reputation, and power in the court of Umbar. Since it was written that after the raid by Angamaite and Sangahyando, Gondor was ravaged by The Plague of 1636 and would take 200 years to recover, would it be safe to say that even if the pc's are able to reveal this plot to Gondor, there would be little that Gondor could do about it? Again, I'm not so worried about my campaign following Tolkien's works to the letter, nor even to jell completely with the other material written by the members of this group. Really I'm just trying to make a fun campaign for my pc's. My hope is that they will continue the pursuit of this minion on their own, perhaps even hiring a few soldiers or mercenaries in the process (they have money). I'm hoping on an extended campaign in the south. Another plot hook I have not yet used involves the minor seeing stones in the module 'Hazards of the Harad Wood'. Anyway, any comments or suggestions, on my question specifically, or my campaign in general, are appreciated

GABRIELE QUAGLIA (JUN 29, 2003)

Subject: R: [fan-modules] Gondor and the rest of the world Hello Thanil, > If my feeling about middle-earth history in the third age is right, I would suggest that Gondor loses sight over most > parts of Middle-Earth after some point. What do you think about this? I totally agree. Let me improve with a few thoughts your analysis: Land routes should be "lost" as soon as Khand and Rhn get "evil", to say that its population is conditioned to hate against Dnedain and especially Gondorians. However, until the Kin-strife, Gondor should be a major naval power, its ships able to reach easily Zimrathani, and maybe every now and then the Ormal Bay. Consider that the Corsairs of Umbar, to be Corsairs, need merchant ships to prey on, and I don't expect to be that much traffic between Eriador and Gondor, especially after the Plague (and not at all after the fall of Arthedain). With the end of the Ship-kings line and the secession of Umbar (the Kin-strife) Gondorian trade relations should shrink, limited at least to the Belegaer. However, still during the War of the Rings the Gondorians know about the Mmakil (I think it's a foreign word), and even Hobbits do know legends about Oliphaunts. Maybe some very limited traffic still existed with the South until the end of the Third Age. But I am more inclined to believe that knowledge of Mumakil may be linked to literature: maybe songs or poems that get very famous - maybe "Grey Oliphaunt" was the Arnorian and Gondorian (and maybe Nmenorean) version of "London Bridge is falling down", and it was so famous and funny that passed into Hobbit Lore. Apart from a little minority of Gondorian travellers and merchants, I agree that NW Middle-earth slowly plunged into a Dark Age that isolated it from the rest of the continent, and separated even Gondor from Eriador. Only old maps remained in Minas Tirith, Rivendell and the Grey Havens to show what the continent looked like, and most of them were last updated in Second Age by Nmenoreans.

THANIL BERNETAR (JUL 2, 2003)

Ignacio schrieb: > In the same scale Gondor, so powerful as > it was, should have commerce and relationships with the peoples of > the Bay of illuin easier and further to the Utter East. As I already stated in a message earlier this week I am generally concerned about the travel/communication matter. I think that Gondor has no ressources after the Kin-Strife to hold up its communication links to far away countries at all. I think that Umbar effectively cuts Gondor off from the southern trade and communication routes. Even 27

communication with Bellakar seems to me as being really hard to achieve. Gondor is no more a naval power after the Kin-Strife, and I think that the Umbareans / Corsairs will not allow Gondor to hold up its links to southern countries anymore. The land routes are even more dangerous than the sea routes. Detailed Maps - if ever any existed! - will get lost in the centuries after the Kin-Strife. Maybe isolated gondorian adventurers could bring news of the outer world to their realm, and I guess there have been a lot of attempts by gondorian kings to reestablish connections, but I don't see any potential for real ambassadors.

GABRIELE QUAGLIA (JUL 8, 2003)

Subject: R: [fan-modules] Some comments I have to agree with Ignacio that such long travels to the utter south are extremely rare after some point in history. I have got the impression that in some modules this has not been taken account of. Hello Santiago, > We can use the same reasoning to numenorean colonies: they are "small" (in numenorean population and direct > cultural influence) but they seek to drastically impose numenorean structure...this resolves the contrdiction: > numenoreans are the ruling elite (less than 5% of population) and rule over a vast native population...like Espaa > did...Umbar can be the "greatest" colony, meaning it is the most numenorean demographically and culturally...Of > course the america and austrlia "colonization" cannot be used as an example, because it was not a colonization at > all (colonization meaning, "The rule of a small foreign elite of a vast native majority"...read Samir Amin or any > africanist). I agree. Nmenoreans should always be an elite, never rising to a majority in any colony. > Why not use spanish empire as a model for numenorean, at least in many aspects. It is more similar: a big oceanic > empire, with a techoinlogical edge, and a metropoli-colony structure for excedent circulation, who lacks the > capability of populating heavily colonized lands. That's a good idea. However, it is difficult to estimate Spanish influence, as Spanish colonies are not as old as Nmenorean ones, and market economy brought great changes to social structure today to conisder Spanish dominions of any value. We should definitely look at them from 1500 to 1800. After that, IMHO, globalisation has a big role, with Europe and later USA having great cultural influence (first of all french Revolution ideas). On the contrary, Nmenorean colonies after the fall would become much more isolated.

28