We Want the Airwaves: QPOC Artists on the Rise I Dont Wanna Be Tragic No More: An Interview with Yosimar Reyes

Yosimar Reyes: I think for me when I go to perform in high schools, that's when I'm like, the most shocked. Like oh my god, all these little hood-ass straight kids, lookin' listening to Too $hort and shit. And I'm about to do my gay-ass poems, like it's scary! Like I don't want them to feel like I'm disrespecting them or anything. What I find more pleasure is when, after I do a poem and I have like, the thuggest ass cholito kid come up to me and be like, hey yo dude, I really like your poem. That shit was tight. And I'm like, Oh okay, thank you! *laughs* *musical intro* Nia King: Welcome to "We Want the Airwaves." My name is Nia King. This week I was very excited to sit down with Yosimar Reyes, a poet that I've admired for a long time. Before we get started with the interview, I'd just like to thank folks who have donated so far to my indiegogo campaign. Veronica Beaty, Terra Mikalson, Jessica Glennon-Zukoff, Kelly ShortandQueer, Kelly ShortandQueer's mom, Cameron Russell, editor of Interrupt magazine, Daniela Capistrano, founder of the POC Zine Project, Nico Vitti, Claudia Leung, Melanie Gillman, and Channing Kennedy. Thank you all so much for supporting this podcast. I spend, I would say, 8 to 10 hours editing. It's definitely a labour of love, so I really appreciate your support. And if you haven't donated yet, it's not too late. You can go to http://www.niapod.tumblr.com and donate there, as well as check out any episodes that you might not have already listened to. Without further ado, here's Yosi. *musical interlude* YR: YouthSpeaks from San Francisco came to my school. They gave a workshop, and then my teacher - because I was really shy - my teacher thought it would be a great idea [for me] to perform and learn how to speak in public, and she signed me up for a competition. And it was really bad. I wrote this really small poem, and it was, yeah it was really really bad, I don't even have a copy of it no more. And then I lost to these other kids. It was like, those school competitions, like Bring it On [*NK laughs*] you know, you have like the Clovers from the hood, and you have the more affluent kids, they have AVID programs in their schools, and know big words and stuff. And when I lost, and I'm like, I don't even understand the poem that I lost to, 'cuz it's hella confusing. I was like, I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna write something better. And then I did. And then I performed a second time, and it all started from there. *laughs* NK: That's awesome. It's really interesting to hear that there would be, sort of like, a class or race bias in slam poetry, because I think of it as very much being like a brown art form. YR: It is, I mean, but I think it gets - I dunno if 'co-opted' is the right term, you know treacherous grounds... But I feel that access to language is definitely a huge, a huge advantage that some

people have, specifically when it comes to spoken word, or slam poetry, or performance. It's definitely an advantage that a lot of people had. And for me, because I didn't, I mean I grew up in Eastside San Jose, I read books, I understood a lot of these things. But at the same time, I felt that most of the poems that I heard from other people that I thought were pretty cool were very like, abstract, and really complex and complicated. Which is amazing, you can do that, but I think when it comes to poetry, I mean for me personally, I like to keep it simple. And more like, the story, than crazy metaphors and stuff. NK: Yeah, no I'm the same way. I mean I'm not a poet. But in school I felt like a lot of premium was given to people who wrote in flowery language, and that was never my style. YR: Mmhm... NK: I felt like there was kind of a race component to that. Like I, whatever, you can totally disagree with this. But I felt a sense of urgency from people of color's writing that I don't always feel from white writing. *laughs* YR: I mean, I grew up reading white people, and like, they were cute. [*NK laughs*] Virginia Woolfe and John Updike, and you know, all the classics. Jane Austen, and...I thought it was cool, 'cuz I'm like, damn that's so cute, they be having these like tragic love affairs, you know. But then as I grew up older, I found like, Cherrie Moraga... and James Baldwin. When I found James Baldwin the world was over. I was like, this is where I want to be. And everything that he wrote, it's still - you could adapt it today. And it's kind of sad, that like the same critiques that he had you can definitely still do 'em today, so that says a lot about the maturity of this country. That James Baldwin told your asses a long time ago to get it together and you haven't. So, that's bad. NK: You said that your first poem was a small poem. What does that mean, for a poem to be small? YR: It was, well, the stanzas. It wasn't even a minute long. And usually with slam poetry, I think the average of a poem is around three minutes, from what I've heard. So it was really small. But I don't slam no more. I think I stopped slamming when I was 18. NK: And how old are you now? YR: I'm 24. So I stopped because there's a lot of slam poets. I think for me, what I saw with the youth, when I was slamming when I was young, was there was the urgency of performing and telling your story and you had deep stuff. And then when you, when I saw the older crowds, the adults, like people really get into it. And the competition becomes very like, competitive. And it's like, y'all muthafuckas write poems... This ain't the Olympics... you know, like, chill out. So yeah, I stopped performing. *laughs* NK: How do you think your poetry has evolved since you stopped doing slam?

YR: I think it's definitely evolved in more the fact that I write for myself, and I don't feel like I need to write - the pressure of 'oh this poem needs to be this way 'cuz I wanna get a 10' or 'this poem needs to be - I have to perform it this way in order for me to fit the mold.' And I feel when I seen a lot of slam poets, there's kinda like this, I don't wanna say 'stereotype', but there's kinda like, a way of performing that you're already gonna expect when you hear a slam. You know, the fast breathing, and the fast words. It's just like that. And for me, that's not how I like to perform. I like to, more like, chill out, and tell you the story, and conversate with you. As opposed to like 'da-da-da-da-dah, da-da-da-dah' [*imitating fast speech*]. I could do that, it just doesn't feel natural to me. NK: Yeah. So you said that you started getting opportunities to perform through YouthSpeaks. YR: Mmhm. NK: But you've really since then built your career as a poet. It seems like you're performing a lot. How did that happen? YR: I think I've just been, it's just been a huge blessing. I dunno. I think for me it's come from the support of other people that see themselves reflected in the poems, or feel some sort of representation in the poems. 'Cuz I always say like, even if you read a poem or anything, it's not about me. It's bigger. I'm a person. But the stuff that I write is because I feel it and I feel like that's what connects me to other people. But I mean, I think definitely I've been performing a lot. And I get invited a lot to conferences and universities and different spaces, and it's either because somebody sees it and really likes it, and is like, oh my god we need you here, we need you to come have these conversations with us. And for me, it's a huge blessing, because I don't think I'm hot shit. I think I'm like, I'm your average 24 year old queer boy from the block. Like, I'm not anything - NK: But you're kinda famous though, like a little bit. YR: I dunno, I wouldn't say 'famous.' I think people think I'm more hyped up than I really am. I look at my life, and I'm like, girl if you come to my house, and see the way that I live, you will see that I'm pretty ordinary, 'cuz my grandma still be screaming at me to clean my room and shit. [*NK laughs*] That's why I feel like I'm grounded in that way. Yeah, people have this concept of 'oh Yosi's this poet performer person' but I mean, I'm not writing poems all the time. *laughs* NK: Is it hard for you to get paid as an artist? Or do you find that when people ask you to speak they have the good sense to know that they should offer you money? YR: I think right now I'm at the point - In the beginning I would be doing a lot of free stuff. Like, you want me at your classroom, I'll come. I feel like, for me, I enjoy meeting people, and I enjoy connecting with people. And it's never about the money for me, it's more about the message,

and you know, to meet people and make friends. I would choose that. But now that I'm older and definitely been on the grind for a while now, I feel like, I'm gonna send you my contract. NK: You have a contract? YR: Yes! I have a contract. And there needs to be - For me it's about respect of the work. Like you need to respect it, simply because it's art. And it takes time to write these things. And I'm not like a full-time artist. I have, you know, a part-time job, and it just so happens that they're flexible enough to let me perform and to create. For me it's more like, it's disrespectful in the way that - it's such an essential part, in whatever that you need. Art is definitely something that we shouldn't take as something disposable. It's in everything that we do. And definitely as artists who are community-based, you are not in it for the money, 'cuz you ain't gonna get rich. But you definitely have bills to pay and people to support, so. I'm definitely - I'm still learning how to negotiate talking business with people, because I'm very like, well what's your budget, and I can work with you. But I feel that - in making a contract it definitely gets rid of any other misunderstanding, like I'm not trying to take advantage of you. I want to pay me so I can come give workshops. And it gets complicated when it's more like, well we're gonna give you exposure. I'm like, I don't need exposure! That's why I have youtube, and facebook. *laughs* NK: When did you get to a point where you felt like, 'I don't need exposure. I don't need to be working for free anymore'? YR: I think, when I released my book. And that was like a couple years ago. But definitely when I self-published my chapbook and then we made a video 'For Colored Boys Who Speak Softly' and we put it on Vimeo, and that shit like spread all over tumblr, forever. I had people writing to me like that poem was so cool, da-da-da-dah, and I'd go to perform, and people would want me to read it and I'm like, I'm so over this poem. Like I don't even like it, this was such a long time ago. But once that reached, and I was like, I was performing a lot. But I'm like, there needs to be a way that I can keep track of how many - and I started taking classes with other artists. I was part of the Multicultural Artist Leadership Initiative in San Jose, and they were very adamant about teaching me that it's not about the amount of shows you do but, you know, that I need to take time as an artist to create pieces that are going to be profound enough that are going to leave a legacy. As opposed to me busting my ass going from show to show to show and I'm repeating the same poems, when I don't even have money to take a couple days off and write something that's profound enough for people to be moved. So I went like, as an artist, we're in the hustle all the time, but it's also important that we take time to create stuff, and that we're not always on the urgency to develop more work. NK: Yeah. I think it can be hard to find a balance between making work and promoting the work that you have, especially if you're doing all the promotion yourself. YR: Mmhm.

NK: Do you have an idea of what, sort of, the ideal balance for those things would be? YR: I think for me, what works - is definitely social media has definitely helped within promoting. And it's not even that hard, it's just as easy as, you know, developing a piece, putting the camera on, putting it on freaking youtube, and posting it on your facebook. It's just gonna spread, you know. NK: Well, if you have a lot of friends it'll spread... YR: Oh, that's true. [*NK laughs*] I mean, for me, it needs to be good. Like it needs to be something that people are going to connect to. I don't think you gotta try too hard, if it's natural to you, it's gonna come to you. I think it fails when it's not authentic. People can definitely see through the bullshit. NK: Yeah that's a good point too though, because your video for 'Colored Boys' is like - I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember it being really well-produced. YR: Mmhm. NK: I mean there's like multiple locations, it's a nice camera, it's not just like you reading a poem in your room. Which would also be fine, but clearly there was some effort put into the production values on that video. So I guess that's another question, it's like, for me, I'm super impatient. So it's hard for me to slow down and focus on making something really good, because sometimes I just want to get it out there. Is that something that you struggle with? YR: I think for me, I grew up that you do everything outta scratch. You develop whatever you got. But then for me, with the work, and the poem specifically, even when I was developing the concept of developing a chapbook, you know. It's in my mind, I was like, okay I can develop a chapbook. I can go to a Kinko's, I can print it out, you know, like everybody else, and sell it for 5 bucks. But then in my head I was like, I don't care if I'm not going to sell the book, but I want it to be quality. I want to honour the poems that I wrote. And I want it to be something that's nice. And that's me, 'cuz I'm a crazy Virgo, so everything's about a certain criteria. You know, and I don't care if I'm a bit broke, but I definitely wanted it to be nice and polished. I mean I'm impatient too. Like, if I write a poem I'll post it. I don't even check if it's edited right, I'll just post it, whatever. If you understand it, you understand it. If you don't, you don't. But I think with certain pieces I definitely like to take my time to honor the work. Because I feel like if it's something that's really important to me that I'm passionate about, I want it to be produced well. And I have a lot - thankfully within the art, I've connected with a lot of people that - I may not know how to do something, but they have the talent. Like develop a flyer, or make videos. I'm like, whoa. You know, that's how you bargain with your friends. Like, okay girl, you make this video for me, I'll go give a presentation in your classroom, or a workshop, or whatever. You know, you help each other out like that. And I've been really - a lot of the videos I've been helped out by my homegirl Jean. And she's the one who produces all my stuff. And she understands me 'cuz we both kinda

grew up in San Jose. So she knows a lot of my ideas and concepts, so we kinda balance each other in that way. I mean, she's producing the works, but she knows. And Julio with Dreamers Adrift, we've done a couple of videos with them. And it's also just connecting with people that kinda have your similar vision. And like, okay this is what we can do with it. NK: Yeah, I mean I think it can be - it's awesome, and also it can be really challenging to find people that share your vision and also have the skills that you happen to need. *laughs* YR: Mmhm. But I feel like the community's really talented. I feel like I'm so blessed, I have a lot of amazing friends that - I mean, and it's not like we necessarily went to school for this. But like, you just pick it up because you like to make art. And yeah, I mean, it's what's gonna tell your story, so definitely. I mean, I could be working with somebody that got like a Master's in Film Production and shit. But I mean, I feel like there's people out there that, they may not know how to make a video, but it'll be more authentic if they did it, because they have a passion for it. So it's not like so, technically trained, you know. NK: Was your chapbook made entirely at Kinko's? 'Cuz it's not like a zine, it's like a legit - YR: No it wasn't. That book, I teamed up, and it goes back to collaborations. I was going to the National Hispanic University at the time, right, and they had just partnered up with this marketing company called Milagro Marketing in San Jose. And their whole thing was marketing for Latinos, like, what is advertising and marketing for Latinos. And they were making flyers and I just asked my friend, I want a book. I don't know how would I go about that. And theyre like, 'Oh, you should give them a call. I'm sure they haven't made a book, but they can probably figure it out.' So I called them, met up with them, like, I want a book. This is the layout that I want. This is the kinda vision that I have for the book. And they made it happen. So, they printed it out, it worked. It looked nice, and I was really proud of it. NK: That's awesome. I feel like it's becoming a little bit of a theme on the podcast now, is like, people that are publishing with publishers that has never published anything else before. I think it's a really interesting phenomenon. 'Cuz publishing's like this whole world, you know, you have the publishers and the distributors, and the bookstores, and the people that review the books. But the people I'm talking to are not connected to any of that. It's just like, oh I had a friend. And then we put it together. YR: Yeah, I mean that's what I found. I mean, I could publish it with a publisher, and I definitely could do that, you know, try to get it in like that. But then I'm like, it's my work. I mean it would definitely help to promote it to a bigger audience, right, 'cuz you have a team behind you to promote your work. But at the same time I was like, well I'm 19, and this is my first book. And I'm trying to get my name out there, so people see that I'm out here trying to hustle. So I think it's, I feel like it's rappers putting out their mixtape. You know, it's like, you wanna buy my mixtape, this is what I got. And now I'm thinking of publishing a second book, but I definitely - I feel like I like having control, kinda knowing where my work is, and who's buying it, and why. I kinda like having

that. And also building those connections. When people buy a book, for me it's not like I'm taking your money, it's more like you're supporting it. And then they add me on facebook, and then, you know, we have conversations, like, oh I really like your poem, and we talk about it. You build relationships with people, as opposed to these people becoming alleged fans or whatever words used for people that like your work. I feel like, you know, they become your friends. And I'd rather have friends than fans. *laughs* NK: No that's a good point, because I feel like part of the appeal for me when I bought your book was like, oh I have an excuse to go talk to you now. *laughs* NK: What's your day job? YR: I work at an after-school program. NK: Oh, awesome. YR: So I work for the YMCA and I work with fifth-graders. NK: And you teach them poetry? YR: I teach - so it's like after-school tutoring and mentoring. So I have a classroom and I develop my own curriculum. So we be having some interesting classes *laughs* about the good stuff... NK: Yeah? YR: Yeah, we be doing some quotes and stuff. It's amazing. My kids are super bright. 'Cuz I be bringing stuff to them, that's very, you know, high school level stuff, and these are fifth graders. Even though stuff goes over their heads, I mean, they understand it. And it's simple as having little conversations with them. I like to ask questions like, Oh, where does your mom work? Or like, what do they do? And they be telling me they do this and they do that, and I'm like, Oh that's cool. And just talking to them about daily life, What is your house like? And they be telling you, 'cuz they think it's nothing out of the ordinary that they're growing up in this rough neighborhood with really traumatic things that are happening in their lives, and for them, it's just like, it is what it is. And I feel like, that's more sincere and I connect to that, than people that are constantly talking about oppression. 'Cuz I mean these kids are living it, and they're more like, Whatever, I just want hot cheetos. *laughs* NK: The after-school program, is it poetry-focused? YR: No, this one is more academic. So it's more like helping them with their homework. But there's dates that I can do my own lesson plans, so I can definitely bring in a book or we can watch videos, or stuff where I develop my curriculum of whatever it might be I wanna teach - they call it 'enrichment.' So we get them really rich with cultural things and it's pretty good. I really like

it. NK: Do you see teaching and being an educator as both something you want to continue to do and also something that's connected to your art and your activism? YR: I love teaching! I think for me it's more like, well I don't really think of it as 'teaching' 'cuz I learn from a lot of people. But I definitely like bringing the resources or the books that I've read that have made me aware. And I mean, I read a lot. So I have like resources for days. Or even bringing in my friends. Like oh my god, I connected with this person, and you know, teach in that way. But I definitely see myself in a classroom. I dunno if it's like, intense academic professor style, but definitely doing some sort of education. NK: You wanna continue to work with youth? YR: Definitely. I like it. Kids are not that complicated as adults. *laughs* NK: How did you meet Julio [Salgado]? YR: I met Julio at a conference in Santa Ana. I got invited to speak for some queer immigration conference, and at the time he was starting off doing his drawings and stuff. And that's when I met him, and then we just clicked. I think he's very chill. So he has this really mellow personality. And I just learned yesterday that I have a big personality. *laughs* NK: *laughs* How did you learn that? YR: I asked my friend. *laughs* So it just worked. And I liked his work. I'm like, well I dunno how to draw, so I got you. So we definitely connected. And we were so happy that we were both queer undocumented artists. And we're little gay boys. So I'm like, Oh my god, that's so awesome, we can make a lotta amazing things together. And then we just started working together and collaborating. We kinda had the similar experiences, right, 'cuz we're both hustling, we're both, right now because we're both queer and undocumented, we're in really high demand, 'cuz it's like a really popular topic. Everybody wants to write a paper about you. Everybody wants you to come talk to their school about the intersections between immigration and sexuality. And you know, all that stuff. So we're like, okay oh my god. We're like Kelly and Beyonce right now. *laughs* NK: Does that ever feel weird, to sort of feel like you're in vogue at the moment, and maybe that's not gonna be the case in - YR: It doesn't because - I mean when I started doing poetry I didn't do it like, 'oh look at me everybody, I'm undocumented and I'm queer and I write poems. Like me because I'm undocumented and queer and I sit at the intersections of these two systems of oppression.' Like, not at all! I started doing poems because I was heartbroken or because, you know, human

emotions, not like these kinda social conditions. They could view whatever it might be, but I still have stories of growing up. I could write about anything basically. Right now, yeah it's funny that people just see you, you know, kinda put you into these two categories. For me, I'm like, I'm bigger than that. I'm more than these two little things. If you're gonna invite me to your classroom to speak on it I'm gonna speak on it. It might not be your conventional narrative of what it means to be undocumented because I don't, like I tell you, I'm not at that point where I'm dwelling on how bad it is. I'm trying to see the blessings and the good in it. So yeah, it'll definitely be something different than me crying because I'm undocumented. It's hard! But I'm not gonna cry. *laughs* NK: You think that's what they're looking for? YR: A lotta times I feel like a lot of people - I think people are sadistic in that way. When we go to a poetry reading or a poetry slam, people like to hear about crazy tragic shit. And it's good, I feel like if that's your pain, and you're gonna share it, by all means, share it, get it out, you know. But for me the problem is when we dwell on it. And if I have ten poems and nine of them are about my traumas, and then I have one, that's just happy, about the sun. You know, some days I just wanna read about the sun, and not about my - I don't wanna dwell on it. I dunno, that's how I feel. NK: So it sounds like what you create as an artist is not necessarily dictated by what you think your audience wants or what there's a demand for. YR: For me when I write it's about what I'm feeling. Like if I'm feeling some sort of, you know, I'm heartbroken, I'm gonna write somethin, but I'm always trying to see the whole picture. You know, when one door closes another one opens. I dunno, cheesy shit like that that gets me through the day. *laughs* NK: Yeah. YR: I definitely wanna write a one-man show. I think that would be cute. And I think a lot of more like, comedy work. I feel like I'm pretty funny. NK: You are. YR: People like me when I say crazy shit. NK: You're very funny on facebook. YR: Yeah, see I'm like, okay, I could do this. But I'm very careful about labels. It took me forever to identify as a poet. Forever. Like even now, I have that, oh yeah I'm a poet, that's what I do. So I'm not gonna be calling myself a comedian any time soon. I feel like there's a kind of respect you gotta give to the craft. You need to definitely put in work before you be labelling yourself something that you haven't really studied or developed. I dunno, that's just me.

NK: I think it's interesting because one of the things that - like you can't really become the thing until you're calling yourself the thing and sort of owning that label in some way. YR: Mmhm. NK: So I'm curious what it took for you to be able to call yourself a poet, and what the barriers to that might've been. YR: I think for me it's always been that I have an immigrant complex, so I always feel like I'm not good enough. And I think that's the conditioning that I grew up with. Even though hella people might be applauding or liking you or be message you being like, how profound the work is, you still be like, oh I'm not good enough. Like yesterday I was reading the manuscript for the second book. And I was reading it and I'm like, damn this is pretty good. I can't believe I wrote this, this is good. NK: Isn't that such a good feeling, when you look back at something and you're like, Actually no, this *is* pretty good? YR: This is pretty good, I was going through some shit, this is good. But I've always had that. For a certain part, I like having that complex that I never feel good enough, because it keeps me grounded, so I don't get caught up in the hype of, oh I'm the best poet. 'Cuz I feel like there are some artists that do that. And I'm like, you're not that good. So, sit down. NK: *laughs* Yeah I feel like one of the things - you know there are sort of these stereotypes of the tortured artist, right, and I've been thinking about that a lot. And I think that the reason that exists is because creative people are so ambitious, and nothing is ever good enough for them. Like their own work is never good enough for them. And I think that's why we push ourselves so hard, and often why we're so unhappy. *laughs* YR: Yeah, well right now I'm telling you, I'm in a place where I'm like, okay I'll absorb it. I'm definitely planning my next move of what I wanna do. But I'm definitely on that tip of, I really wanna write more positive things, lighter things. And that's just me. A lotta people might be like, why? Why you wanna do that? Or like, it's not gonna be authentic. I'm like, no it is, because that's where I'm at right now. I'm happy. And I dunno why it's so hard for some people to accept that. NK: That you're happy? YR: Like why you happy? You're at the margins, you shouldn't be content. I'm like, well leave me alone! *laughs* Go be sad over there by yourself, I'm not tryna be all that. I think I want to do a lot more lighter work, and a lot more, you know. Like you said, laughing is definitely something that cures whatever illness you might have. So I want to be able to bring that to people. Yeah I'm definitely trying to be more positive. I don't wanna be tragic no more. That was cute when I was

16. Not no more. I'm 24. I don't got time for that. That's what I've learned, you attract what you are. If you're always negative and always dwelling - and it's true we live under constant violence and oppression, but if you're like giving off that energy, you kinda attract that. For me it's more like, I'm trying to be attracting good positive people in my life, and I don't really - I'm right here, I'm like fucking Mary J. Blige right now, no more drama in my life. *laughs* NK: Do you feel like it's a political choice to either try to be positive or be negative in your work? YR: I think for me it's just because I've been through so much, that right now I'm definitely more on the positive. Because I feel like that's gonna definitely help me make it through. And right now, it's really critical with immigration and everything that's happening. And at the risk of being, you know, anything could happen. I could be gone tomorrow. And for me it's more like, I'm trying to find peace within myself to know that if it ever came down to, I gotta bounce, Im going to be happy wherever the hell I go. And I'm not gonna be stressing. And that happened to me - I think I had that realization when I was performing - I had just gotten this gig to come perform at Pomona, this huge gig. I was gonna be performing for, I think it was a women of color conference. And it so happened that the night before Carlos Santana had come to see me perform at La Pea with Harry Belafonte. And I had dinner with - NK: Holy shit! *laughs* YR: Isn't that some crazy shit? And I had dinner with them and yeah they were all like, we need you here because we want you to perform at Harry Belafonte's event. And I was like, I'm already booked and I'm performing on the same day in Pomona. I'm flying out tomorrow morning. And they're like, well we're gonna fly you back the same night. And then we'll pick you up, and we'll take you to the event. And I'm like, I'm down. So I made the arrangements. So here I am performing for all these women of color, all in love with me, and you know, hugging me. Like oh my god, you're so cool and stuff. And I'm like, thank you, you know. And then I have to fly back the same night. And I'm like, damn this is really happening. People are really picking up the work, it's so amazing, it's so cool. And I get to the TSA line. And I was traveling with my Mexican ID 'cuz I don't have a California ID. And then I get stopped by Homeland Security. And then I get in, there's this butch lesbian. I dunno why they pull them in the TSA line, they're tryna scare you. You know they always have the butchest one to scare you. And she was there, and she was like, why do you have this ID? This ID tells me you're not supposed to be in this country. And when she said that, I'm like, what, 19, 20, so I'm fairly young, I don't know a lot. This is the first time I'm traveling. So then - NK: On a plane? YR: On a plane. So then she's like, you're not supposed to have this ID. And then the hood in me comes in, and I'm like, lies. I have dual citizenship, and I called Southwest, and they said I would not have no trouble traveling with this ID, so I do not understand why you're harassing me. *laughs* You know, I feel like when you're entitled. It's kinda sad, you gotta have middle class

entitlement, like Why you bothering me? for people to respect you. And that's kinda sad. But I was like, Im gonna run this all the way, 'cuz I'm about to be in a detention center right now. So then she goes, she calls her little friend, another little ICE agent. So there's these two white people in uniform, right, and I always tell this joke, 'cuz I'm like, I have like genetic trauma, so whenever I see tall white men in uniform I automatically think Christopher Columbus. *laughs* And then I become scared. So I got really scared! I'm like, I'm small. I'm a small little Mexican. And these two people who, they're like dogs. They have no human expression. In my head, I'm like, what makes you human. Like why do you do this job? I understand you gotta pay your bills and I respect that, but just knowing that you kinda have to detach yourself to protect a system that doesn't really care about you. And then they keep asking me questions. Like what grade I got in recess? And I'm like, that's a dumb question, 'cuz you don't get grades in recess. NK: What?! YR: Mmhm. NK: That's so bizarre. YR: And then they asked me like What are monkey bars? And I go, what the hell? [*NK laughs*] And they were getting all mad, 'cuz that was my reaction, like, what?! Monkey bars? Recess? They're like, why can't you answer the questions? Like screaming at me. And I'm like, they're out of context. If you give me some context of why I'm answering these questions I will gladly answer them. Like, I'm undocumented, not stupid. *laughs* So at the end she let me go. She's like, okay you can go. And I get on my plane. It was when we took off that I began just crying, forever. To the whole way over here, I was just bawling. 'Cuz it was the scariest thing I've ever experienced. And kept thinking about my grandparents. And just all these emotions. Of like, why are they doing that? That's so horrible. Like how can you do - I felt violated. Like, how can you violate someone like that? You know, and you go about your day. Like, that's just horrible. And then I got here and I performed. And whatever. And I'm like, what a crazy juxtaposition. I'm here performing because Carlos Santana and Harry Belafonte asked me to come here, but I just got harassed on a plane. And that's what made me realize, no matter how good of a muthafuckin poet I am, no matter if I'm putting hella work in the community, no matter if I am doing everything to be a good immigrant. To them I'm always gonna be expendable. That's when I realized, it's not gonna be about them. It's gonna be about me, and whatever it is that I need to do. So that's when I decided to start telling funny stories and doing funny shit, because I feel like I need to be sane. 'Cuz if not I'd be all Sylvia Plath style. And I ain't tryna do that. *laughs* NK: When you got to the show back here, did you get a chance to like, process at all? Or talk about what happened to you? YR: I mean I said it to the audience. I was like, I'm so happy I'm here because I was about to be deported. It just, it sucks. And I've been having nightmares about it, but now I'm like, because I talk about it and I write about it and manage to laugh about how silly that shit was, I'm kinda like

over it. I still get like anxiety when I'm traveling on a plane and I have to go show my ID and stuff, but now I know that like, well, it's not gonna be convenient for them to come after me, 'cuz well I know a lot of people. *laughs* NK: *laughs* How did you...So after the show opening, Harry Belafonte and Carlos Santana just came up to you and were like, hey have dinner with us? YR: No, so what ended up happening was Carlos came, I was going to school at the National Hispanic University, and he came to give money or something to the school. And they asked me to come in to thank him. And I'm always very like, particular about thanking rich people. They asked me to bring my grandma, and I was like, I'm not gonna bring her. I'm not gonna exploit my grandma, just because somebody gave me money. So I went by myself. So I go and I didn't know it was Carlos Santana until I get in, and I was like, aww shit I should've brought her! It would've been nice. And he asked me to do a poem, 'cuz they told him I was a poet, so I did a poem. And he hella liked it. He's like, wow, that's really cool. I really really like it. And later, they were showcasing me at La Pea. And I just got a call, 'Carlos Santana wants to come to your show. Is that okay with you?' I'm like, if you can buy the ticket, yeah, come through. And it so happens that Harry Belafonte was here too, so he brought Harry Belafonte to the show too. NK: That's crazy. YR: Isn't that crazy?? I'm like, oh my god. NK: Do they even live around here? YR: Carlos lives in Tiburon where the rich people live. NK: Oh, okay. YR: Harry was doing, he has this thing called The Gathering, like this big gathering of men of color and stuff. That was the event he was here for, he was in Oakland, so. Yeah, it was cool. I had dinner with them. They were really nice. NK: Do you find that there are times where it's kinda like, that you're doing back to back shows that are a big deal, and other times where you might have like a dry spell? Or is the work pretty consistent? YR: It depends. Right now it's been back to back. It's been three shows a week. So that's really - NK: For how long? YR: For the past four weeks. So that's hella -

NK: Do you think that's 'cuz it's like Pride season? YR: June, I definitely get more booked. And also because it's spring, and kids are - I do the university circuits, and people are producing shows in the spring, and they're inviting me to perform and speak. And it's crazy because I still have a part-time job. So it's managing that, and managing getting put into the shows, and traveling. But I mean it's something that I like, so I feel really really blessed that I get to do it. And that people invite me. When people invite me, I'm like, wow, that's cool. Like I haven't really had to - I'm blessed in the fact that I haven't really had to send my work out for people to pick me up. NK: People just find you... YR: Yeah, people just find it online, and they're like, look you up on facebook, send me your email, we wanna bring you to our classroom, and do stuff like that. I always feel really honored. And then these people become my friends. I'm not really like - I'm professional though when it comes to the work. But when it comes to chilling out with people, I can definitely have a conversation with anybody. That's why I feel like I can make friends with anybody, as long as they're not disrespectful or rude, 'cuz then I wanna fight them. *laughs* NK: *laughs* Does it ever cause problems if there's like no line between personal Yosi and professional Yosi? YR: I don't think - For me, no, because I think what people know me is, I'm performing a poem that comes from a certain place. For me, I make the distinction of like, okay, the poems are what you need to take serious. The work is not even - it has nothing to do with me personally. But it's also how I carry myself. If I don't disrespect myself nobody should. I think I carry myself pretty well. I dunno how it might come off to other people. But I've never really had any issues with anybody. NK: That's good, I think I'm a pretty private person. And I'm trying to promote myself as an artist, but I'm also like - I don't wanna say afraid to be controversial. Because I think obviously if you're a queer woman of color, people are gonna take issue with whatever you say. YR: Yeah! NK: But I do worry about stuff I say on twitter or on facebook at some point might cost me a job, maybe. And other artists I've talked to have said, I can't do interviews because every time I speak I lose work. But that's not something that you've ever - YR: Not at all. I mean, I be getting in trouble because I keep putting things on blast. But it's who I am. For me it's like when you book me for a show, you're gonna get a full package. You're not gonna get, you know, I'm just gonna do the poem. I need to tell you where this poem's coming from, I need to tell you all this. And I feel like artists, as people, everybody's a hot mess. I think

everybody's a hot mess. And there are certain people who wanna be, you know, hush hush about it. But ultimately you relate to the work because it's coming from a hot mess person to another hot mess person. And that's what attracts you to it. There are certain things I definitely wouldn't say, personally, that I'm like, okay I'll do that in the context of a poem, but when it comes to other things - like a critical analysis of something I might have, or an idea, I'll definitely put it on blast. And I've had issues where people are offended by it. But for me, it's more like, if you're offended by something I post, I rather you contact me directly, as opposed to you deciding to go put it on your page, and go tell all your friends to comment about it, and how crazy I was. And you just create stupidity. And I don't got time for that. NK: Yeah, you got sort of put on blast recently, on tumblr. YR: On tumblr! People are out of control. [*NK laughs*] They don't want it with me. It was something that was taken out of context, definitely, totally out of context. And for me, we were talking about language and stuff, for me, I feel like, I'm from Eastside San Jose, so the way that I speak or I write or I conversate with people, it's not your most conventional safe-space kinda language. 'Cuz we don't do that over there. And I always feel like - I perform in a lot of academic settings, a lot of queer spaces, right. And with queers, we kinda develop all these theories and these concepts of how do we create comfort for one another, because we've definitely been through a lot of things, right. But I feel that, a lot of times those methods are not really practical. You can't really implement them when you're working with kids that are not in academic setting. So I always feel like, it's important that we do that type of work, but also remember that there's kids that are never gonna get into this school, and there's kids that are gonna come to this conference, and they're not even gonna know what the fuck you're saying. You'll be here talking about, you know, 'I' statements, and safe space this, and these kids are like, What the hell is that? And for me, it's very important that we need to start developing a language that's more accessible. 'Cuz I remember when I came initially started coming and performing, you go around introducing yourself, and people are like, Oh state your preferred gender pronoun, and your ass be like, What the fuck is a pronoun.? You know, I don't remember that, I mean I write, but I don't remember that stuff. And that's my friends! You know, a lot of times they felt really intimidated coming to my shows or to the conferences I would invite them to, cuz they're like, 'oh no Yosi, that's for your smart people friends. Like it's not for me, I don't like that. You know, I don't know what to say when I'm in these spaces.' And I'm like, 'well you just say what you wanna say. Just be you.' And for me, I always find it really kinda heartbreaking, right, that we're over here being revolutionaries and all about social justice, but there's people that don't have time to contemplate about their oppression 'cuz they're too busy surviving, that they don't really put labels on themselves. 'Like I'm just a gay boy, I like boys, that's all I like, I don't really care.' But it's also about doing that work in a grounded way that it becomes transformative, as opposed to we're just in a bubble of queers. That we get mad and Im gonna write a blog about you. That's ridiculous. NK: *laughs* I think that's a really interesting point what you're saying about, sort of, you know I think things like asking preferred gender pronouns come from a place of trying to make a safe

space or a more accessible one, like differently coming from a good place and a really important place. And I also totally hear what you're saying about how that in itself might feel inaccessible for other people who - YR: For me, it's even more about the - Where I'm from, it's not like we're crazy right, you learn concepts of respect, these deep concepts, right? So if I meet you, and you tell me you have a problem with me calling you a certain way, like people make a note. You know, like 'okay I don't wanna make you upset.' Like I think it's common to know respect. People know it. Unless you're a motherfucking asshole and you just wanna be offending people. But I feel that when you break it down, when it's simple, and not so complex, and not so theory-based. Like people will get it. And I feel like, that's all my friends, like okay I understand, you just gotta keep it one hundred. Because I feel like it's important because you come to these spaces and everybody wants to show off how smart they are, like I'm the most intelligent person so I'm gonna talk about the epistemology of the diasporic whatever da-da-da-dah. And I'm just like, I don't get it. It's too wordy. It's too - I don't even know how to pronounce certain words. So I'm like damn, should I be using that in my paper? I'm like, I dunno, just keep it simple. We get so caught up in our minds that we forget how to have heart to heart conversations and how to love people for their heart and not their crazy-ass mind. So, I dunno. NK: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there are two things that might be getting sort of conflated here. One is like, the desire to create safe space. And the other is a desire to show off how smart you are. And both those things definitely happen, and I can see how they may sometimes look the same, or get conflated in real life. But I guess my question is like, how do you create a space where both people feel equally welcome at the table, the person who has pronouns that maybe you haven't heard before, and the person that doesn't know what a pronoun is? YR: And that's the process and that's the conversations that we really need to have, as opposed to ignoring. And then everybody's just caught up, oh you're just trying to be smart. It's about storytelling. It's about having a conversation with someone, like, okay we can make those spaces. But it's definitely about knowing that there are people who are definitely on total different spaces. Just because you come to a space or a certain conference doesn't mean you have an understanding of what's happening. So I dunno, it's a really complicated question. It's really complicated. But for me, it's always like, me having access to these places and being in these institutions and being part of a lot of these people - and these are my friends. These are my friends, I have a spectrum of friends that are like, you know, maybe college professors, and I have friends that are just, you know, average little gay boys that all we do is club. And they can tell you all kinds of flavors of vodka, but they can't be telling you about what books they read. And that's just a spectrum of humanity. We're complicated people. And I feel like, we definitely wanna create safe spaces. But it's also important to know that we don't know everything. Everybody's problematic. Everybody be saying some fucked up shit. It doesn't matter if you're like the most revolutionary or the most allegedly conscious and you go to a sweat lodge every day, you're gonna say some shit. But it's also about finding inner peace. For me it's more like if people call me something that I'm not comfortable with, I make sure within myself to know that they're just

projecting, that has to do with them. It has nothing to do with me. And that's where I've been. The work that I've been doing for myself when people be saying, you know, calling me names, or tryna put me down. And I live in Eastside San Jose, people be doing all that shit all the time, it's violent, that's the reality of it. For me it's more like, if you're homophobic that's you. That's something you need to pray about. Not me. 'Cuz I'm good, I'm comfortable, I'm happy. And I'm gonna pray for you too, 'cuz clearly you need some prayer in your life. *laughs* NK: *laughs* YR: I don't know. It's complicated. Definitely a complicated question. And that's what I wanna explore. I definitely wanna explore how to make language more accessible. How to make this concept of safe spaces and we can bring them to violent spaces. How do you make a safe space when there's people getting shot in your front door? And that's a complicated question. But we definitely need to - instead of being in that bubble we need to get out and go. And not just go to the hood when you need to write a paper about something. Go, explore, talk to your neighbors, talk to your parents. And I feel like that's what happens with a lot of intellectual queers. We like to theorize and shit, but we don't even know how to have conversations with our own families about the things that we feel. And it's about that. If you can't explain your theory to your grandma, then its really not for you. NK: Yeah. And that's something that I struggle with, a lot. Like I feel like I understand on a level I want my work to be accessible to everyone. And especially to - you know, my grandma's kinda out of the picture at this point - but you know, my parents. And sometimes I share my work with them, and they don't get it. And that's okay, I feel like that's not on them, that's on me. But it can be really hard. And I feel like in particular when you're talking about gender and transgender issues, to break it down in a way that people from earlier generations can understand. And it's not like there weren't trans people in their generation. It's not like all these things today that we think of are so new haven't actually been around forever. But I guess my question's like, how do you translate your work for other generations or people? YR: I think for me it's more like, I mean, I wouldn't be translating a poem word for word. It's more about - I dunno, it's weird. It's just weird. I think everything that I do is rooted in the understanding of love and compassion. And I feel that when you talk to someone that doesn't get it, it's really important - I mean I have temper tendencies when people don't get it I just wanna scream and get up in their face, like Why don't you get it? I'm frustrated, you know. But I have to bring myself back and like whoa, I just need to chill out, and be compassionate. Maybe they haven't really seen this before. And I know we're not supposed to be educating people. I know that I'm not supposed to be constantly teaching you about what's right, what's wrong. But for me it's more like, if I wanna be your friend, I gotta do whatever I need to do possible to convince you. It's like being a good Christian, you know. Like I gotta be understanding and try to not make it about me, more about you. And I always have those contradictions though, like when I go perform at those college campuses, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna perform for all these straight people, and they're not gonna get this poem. They're gonna be like, ew that's gross. Or when I go to high schools, I

think for me when I go to perform in high schools, that's when I'm like, the most shocked. Like oh my god, all these little hood-ass straight kids over here, lookin' like I'm Too $hort and shit. And I'm about to do my gay-ass poems, like, it's scary! Like, I don't want them to feel like I'm disrespecting them or anything. What I find more pleasure is when, after I do a poem and I have like, the thuggest ass cholito kid come up to me and be like, Hey yo dude, I really like your poem. That shit was tight. And I'm like, Oh okay, thank you! *laughs* I dunno, I feel like it's definitely hard when you're having those conversations with your family and for them to know you. 'Cuz I mean, just because they raised you and you grew up with them doesn't mean they really know what's happening inside of you. But I feel like, with having those conversations you're not just helping yourself, you're helping them, and you're both growing, and you're definitely both letting go of all these conceptions that you have of one another. NK: Is there anything that you want to plug or anything else you want to say about your work before we - You said you have another book coming out? YR: Well I'm working - I have a manuscript. I think right now what I'm gonna do, I'm finally finishing school, so I'm gonna be starting SF State in the fall - NK: Congratulations! YR: - which I'm excited about, I'm gonna be a little nerd. And nothing, I'm just - I think I'm gonna take more time to develop something that I'm gonna be really proud to showcase. But right now, I think right now, I'm gonna definitely take a break from being on the hustle all the time. And definitely focus on school. Because I really want to. I wanna finish and I wanna be a little nerd with, you know, have little cute graduation pictures. NK: *laughs* I have a feeling you're not gonna be a little nerd. [*YR laughs*] I have a feeling you're gonna get there and blow all the other students away. Are you going for undergrad or grad school? YR: My undergrad. NK: So you're gonna be a freshman? YR: No, I'm gonna be a junior. So I'm transferring. And also though, the struggle I've had with academia, I couldn't get to school because I gotta pay everything out of pocket. Like, it's crazy. But I'm happy that I gotta pay out of pocket 'cuz then I won't have debt when I graduate. So I guess it's good... I'm happy, Im gonna graduate. And I'm gonna be taking your jobs! NK: *laughs* I think that's a good note to end on. YR: *laughs* Thank you!

NK: Thank you! *musical finale*