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high voltage cable distance protection

Hi all IS there any problem in high voltage cable distance protection?!! in simulation program,we can calculate Z0 and Z1 of cable for a special configuration(cross or solid bonded shield ). Then we can tune the distance relay and it works enough accurate. NOW , I want a practical problem in High voltage cable distance protection. 8 days ago

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Radostin Nikolov, Saalim Almashary and 2 others like this You, Radostin Nikolov, Saalim Almashary and 2 others like this 17 comments

mahdiUnfollow Follow mahdi mahdi mansouri Dear Ruhollah The importance note for using distance relay for cable protection is that distance relay is prepared for line protection and all of them have RL(lagging ) agle in theirs characteristics. and also the reisistance part is smaller than inductive part. But cables have RC(resistive and capacitive ) characteristics and the capacitive part is bigger than resistive part. therefore you must consider this parts. Usually distance relays did not used for cable protection. If you want use the distance relay, you must consider the protection zone as the RC caracteristics of cable be in the zones. best 8 days ago Unlike Like

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LuisUnfollow Follow Luis Luis Bello I totally agree Mr Mahdi the impedance characteristic change, and the way you set the distance relay too, so you need to identify and get the real sequence impedance and so set the protective... 8 days ago Unlike Like

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Michael J.Unfollow Follow Michael J. Michael J. Wright Is this an underground cable? In practice, many utilities will require a current differential on high voltage underground cables. Most underground cable faults are permanent faults and must be cleared as fast as possible. Distance schemes typically have Z1, Z2, and Z3. You would want the Z1 setting to look at the entire length of the cable as you dont want any part of the underground cable not protected by your highest speed tripping. I was the P&C engineer on a 230kV underground cable project we used current differential protection for both primary and secondary. Each relay had an option to use distance as a backup so we did turn that one as well but we really trusted the current differential as what would clear faults on this underground cable. Hope this helps! 8 days ago Unlike Like

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EmmanuelUnfollow Follow Emmanuel Emmanuel Britto A very interesting solution is to use line differential protection. If voltage transformers are available at both ends directional overcurrent protection may be added in order to provide backup protection. Of course it is necessary to run fiber optics between both ends in order to transfer the information. The limitation to use optic fiber is that the cable/optic fiber lenght does not exceed 80km. 8 days ago Unlike Like

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RadostinUnfollow Follow Radostin Radostin Nikolov I totally agree with Mahdi.... Definetly the impedance characteristic for cable distance relays are change, and ther is have a changes in way of setings for distance relay.... Better way for cable protection for me is a phase differential relays protection.... Current is a better values for control and mettering in cables field, than RL/RC values.... 8 days ago Unlike Like

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RaymondUnfollow Follow Raymond Raymond Lee How long is the cable ? Is it single phase or three phase ? What is the voltage class ? 7 days ago Unlike Like

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ruhollahUnfollow Follow ruhollah ruhollah baziar thanks all. As my friends have described, distance relay is a backup protection. I want improve this protection. At first, I know that Z0 of cable should be measure. Also,I know the arc resistance in cable core to shield fault is very low about 0.1 ohm. Now, in your opinion, which situation doesn't distance protection work?? cable characteristics: length : 11.7 km three phase rated voltage :230 kv cross bonded format laid in tunnel 7 days ago Unlike Like

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PlamenUnfollow Follow Plamen Plamen Natchev In my experience HV underground cables are usually quite short (max couple of kilometers) and their impedance is very small to be easily set. The worst case I have met was 33 kV cable (well, it is MV cable) only 3 km long and with 5A-rated CTs. Guess what were voltages to measure during the tests ! There were no any suitable test set available and I had to use Sverker 760 for injecting of current and voltage in each loop. It was nightmare... The best solution is to use line differential protection. If it is a new installation it is not a problem to install FO cable together with the HV one. You will have 100% selective protection with no delay for faults on the complete line. But let's not forget that our cable is not alone, but is a part of grid. So distance protection function should be used also, at least to backup protections on adjacent lines. 7 days ago Unlike Like

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HenrisonUnfollow Follow Henrison Henrison Lumbanraja If distance relay is functioned as back up , calculate impedance Z1,Z0 and base on manufacturer data and configuration of cable installation , setting the scheme of distance protection ( its better PUTT or POTT), for distance protection to make sure it can reach in zone protection set zone1 to 80% and zone 2, zone 3 depend on the system configuration on the adjacent lines , consider the angle operating characteristic refer to your impedance data 7 days ago Unlike Like

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EricUnfollow Follow Eric Eric Stark A distance backup prot. to cables is done in many places without a problem. I encountered it in Toronto, Canada and phi-phi island, Thailand. The main prot. is DIFFERENTIAL, of course, and the cable MUST have sufficient impedance as Zprimary for the relay to function correctly and securely. Setting the Dist. relay for cables is fairly simple, after the initial impedance study. Don't be too much concerned about the Distance part. If you have the above requirements, it will work fine. It does for me. Hope it helped, Eric Stark RNItechnology Sr. Eng. Trainer & Consultant Protection & Control Engineering T: 1-416-546-546-1 rnitech@gmail.com www.RNItechnology.com 7 days ago Unlike Like

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BalajiUnfollow Follow Balaji Balaji Gir Along with above question, i have another question for 10KV cable protection. Differential protection is mandatory for 10kv underground cable or not?

I think Directional earthfault/ overcurrnet is sufficient for 10kv short length cable. 3 days ago Unlike Like

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EmmanuelUnfollow Follow Emmanuel Emmanuel Britto Well, for you to have a directional protectiona it would benecessary either having enough shortcircuit contribution(what may be difficult in some cases due to arc resistance) or a pilot transmisson sot that you may ensure that the information will be transfered to both ends. Further, for you to use directional function you will need a voltage reference, as well. But if you have a pikot, why not using the line (cable) differential protection? 2 days ago Unlike Like

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MiroslavUnfollow Follow Miroslav Miroslav Antic @Balaji I agree with you. For 10kV cables Directional earthfault/overcurrent is good enough. It looks to me that differential protection for 10 kV cable is not necessary expense. 1 day ago Unlike Like

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RadostinUnfollow Follow Radostin Radostin Nikolov I am agree with you Miroslav, it is not necessary expense for differential relays protection for 10/33kV feder protection..... 1 day ago Unlike Like

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EmmanuelUnfollow Follow Emmanuel Emmanuel Britto OK. And how are you going to cope for high impedance faults? Do not forget that you have to install VTs for the directionality. I have used an optic fiber to change information between the two ends when specifying the protection of the So Paulo ( Brazil) Metro System. 1 day ago Unlike Like

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MiroslavUnfollow Follow Miroslav

Miroslav Antic Doesn't every substation X/10kV/kV have measurement at cable begining? So if there is any 10kV measurement in substation (there must be VTs) and CTs on cable bay (which is mandatory) it is possible to deploy directional earthfault protection. Zero component of fault current is registered with CTs and that is good enough for high impedance faults. Please advise if I'm wrong. 8 hours ago Unlike Like

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EmmanuelUnfollow Follow Emmanuel Emmanuel Britto Dear Miroslav Antic Directional overcurrent protection is a very good solution but to add a pilot will considerably improve its behavior in case low contribution to the fault ( fault through arc resistance) occurs. In this case, you may be able to prepare a logic with the directionality. 3 hours ago Unlike Like

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NEELAKANDAN MASILAMANI I agree with michel J.wright, the only thing we have to take care of line diff.protection is pilot communication channel healthiness.so we have choose a relay such that when the communication fails ,it automatically switched to dist.protection from line dif.protn. like ALSTOM P543 RELAY
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TusharUnfollow Follow Tushar Tushar Agarwal Best protection solution for the Cable is "Differential" protection with distance or directional over current back up. However I have not found any issue if you want to use only distance protection for the cable with proper setting calculation. Now a days it is also possible to use distance protection relay for the hybrid line. Separate setting option is available for the overhead line and cable section.
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BalajiUnfollow Follow Balaji Balaji Gir Thnaks to all. Now i conclude from the discussion, for high volatge cable protection Pilot wire diffferential protection must be used along with direction OC/EF protection. In our project we have used P543 from Alstom for 60kV cable along with pilot wire differential protection.
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EmmanuelUnfollow Follow Emmanuel Emmanuel Britto ABSOLUTELY. MAIN PROTECTION SHALL BE LINE DIFFERENTIAL TROUGH PILOT INFORMATION TRANSFERENCE WHEREAS DIRECTIONAL OVERCURRENT SHALL OPERATE BACKUP PROTECTION AND ALSO WITH PILOT COMMUNICATION IN ORDER TO TRANSFER THE INFORMATION FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER.
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MajidUnfollow Follow Majid Majid Hashemi HI There are so many good advices.We have incorrect distance operation in our network.The most problems of distance for cables are: 1-zero sequence impedance varying with the fault current. 2-low reactant of cables that creates several problems. 3-capacitance in cables are much higher than OHL 4-the zero sequence depends on many parameters and is often difficult to determine.during unbalance faults,the ground current can return through various means,such as:ground,sheath,ground and sheath,ground and sheath and adjacent cables 5-... Differential protection is the best but in old networks is impossible. so,i am wondering if anyone could help me about: 1-during the fault our some of distance relays detect the direction correctly(for eg reverse) but at once that a CB opens operate in zone1. 2-in some cases during a fault in one cable , all of adjacent cables operate in zone1 ( operate correctly(zone 2 or 3) )

in old network
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EmmanuelUnfollow Follow Emmanuel Emmanuel Britto Dear Majid Hashemi If you have the possibility to lay a pilot cable or optic fiber you will be able to work on PUTT, POTT Bloking or Unblocking systems for the existing distance protection for phase protection. For line to ground faults, again using the pilot, you shall use directional overcurrent relays on transfer trip logic. But still, the best solution, either to line or ground faults would be line differential scheme plus directional overcurrent protections. Kind regards
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