A Discussion on a Fixed-ends Beam with no tension bars at the ends (LinkedIn, Aug 2013)

There is a beam with both fixed ends but in the both ends there is not any bars in tension zone dose this beam act like a beam with bot pined end? (there are enough ties to prevent shear failure)
11 days ago

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Muhammad Tausif Arshad likes this

17 comments

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Jeremy Welles When you say tension zone, are you referring to the top bars at the ends? There should be reinforcement there regardless of how you are analyzing the connection. A conservative approach is to analyze the beam as pinned-pinned for the positive moment at midspan and add additional top bars at the ends.
11 days ago Like

ArazUnfollow

Araz Sadoughi Shabestari for example if you want to analysis an existing structure for retrofit and there is no rebars in the top at the ends. also I want to know in this situation does the beam fails or because of absence of rebars at top it act like pinned-pinned ?
11 days ago Like

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Srinivas K.L For a fixed load i think Practically the Fixed end moments gets released. We can observe a crack at the ends due to this. If the steel at midspan is sufficent due to the additional moments widening of cracks will stop and if not it spreads to the central region also. Over a period of time the beam will start deflecting which will lead to other complication.
10 days ago Like

Follow James

James Holloway Araz, short answer, yes it will behave as a simply supported beam, so you should check it on this basis.
3 days ago Like

Luisito Sta. Ines, M. ASCE Depriving the concrete beam of tension bars where it is required is inducing it to crack under tension loads. Since there are no tension bars (i.e., top bars) at the ends, it follows then that concrete will crack at the ends if the loads are ultimate, but since there are enough shear reinforcement the beam will not fall if there is no further increase in load; at the cracked stage, plastic hinge are already present; the end moments then should be calculated using plastic analysis formula (M = w*l^2 / 16) by following the principle of external work = internal work; at the uncracked stage end moment M = w*l^2 /12. It may behave like pinned at the cracked stage (having no moment resistance at the end section due to absence of tension bars) or it may also behave as partially restrained beam (considering the bending capacity of the compression bars).
3 days ago

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sanjay gupta Agree with Er. Mr. Ines, verdict, for retrofit work I would shore it up with temp jacks and a header beams on both sides and then remove this failed beam and replace it with a well designed pre-cast concrete or steel girder beam for the required openings making sure it has adequate end supports and remove the temp jacks only after everything has been set in place. Good luck with retrofit work, there are plenty of it out there.
3 days ago Like

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sanjay gupta Mr. Araz with your question, I could presume you are not a Civil Engineer or any Engineer, I would hire a qualified Engineer/contractor and be very careful in executing such beam change out job, with out knowing the exact details or where about's this damaged beam in question is, without harming the building permanently or risking peoples lives. Safety first please.
3 days ago Like

Luisito Sta. Ines, M. ASCE Thanks Er. Mr. Sanjay, you are correct; if the actual bending moment at the end exceeds the bending capacity of the compression bars at the cracked stage - i.e. there is a need to retrofit the beam; however, if the beam's loads does not exceed the bending and shear resistance of concrete at the ends, there might be no need to retrofit the same; the same is true if the ultimate loads are sufficient to crack the ends and if bending is still manageable by the bending resistance of the compression bars
2 days ago

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sanjay gupta Again Mr. Araz do not try this all by yourself, if you do not understand what Er. Mr.Ines is saying, because you cannot see all the forces coming on the beam and before you know it will be another disastrous home improvement project.
2 days ago Like

ArazUnfollow

Araz Sadoughi Shabestari Thanks you my dear friends, Dear Mr Sanjay Gupta I am structural engineers and I completely understand your opinion but I had and argue in the university about this question and I want to be sure. Mr sanjay I am one of the best structural engineers in my university. Again I think my intuition in structural engineering is very powerful and I have a perfect understanding in structural engineerg. by they way I really appreciate that you explain your helpful ideas.
2 days ago Like

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sanjay gupta Thanks Mr. Shabestari, my apology for not knowing. With this in mind, good luck, with your career in Structural Engineering.
2 days ago Like

Follow Zachary

Zachary Hansen I agree with James. If there are no top bars at the beam ends, then it is not a fixed end beam and must be analyzed as a simple span.
1 day ago Like

Follow sanjay

sanjay gupta In Basic Principles of design we assume certain conditions, either single or double reinforced beams, when ever you deviate from it, you have to re analyse or if cracks or visible on the beam, it is considered as failed member.
1 day ago Like

Luisito Sta. Ines, M. ASCE This beam can NOT be analyzed as a simple beam but as a both-ends-fixed beam; it is clearly stated in the statement of Mr. Araz that its ends are fixed; this beam is analyzed then as fixed using plastic design with the concrete moment capacity plus the bending capacity of the compression bars at the end as governing strength of the beam at the ends because there are no tension bars which normally should govern if using a nonbalanced design; Beams may only be analyzed as simple if they are literally simple in actual condition as when resting in corbels and not part of a moment frame.
1 day ago

Luisito Sta. Ines, M. ASCE Some people seem to not fully understand concrete design; for elastic design (such as unreinforced where concrete strength governs or underreinforced non-balanced design where concrete strength is considered along with the rebars' strength), cracks are not allowed in elastic design because concrete is not supposed to exceed its yield strength or to have a permanent deformation (which results to crack because concrete is weak in tension); however, for plastic balanced or overreinforced non-balanced design, concrete is allowed to crack (i.e., exceed the yield strength and have a permananent deformation i.e., crack) and thus the rebars' strength takes over making the structure still safe; thus if you see a cracked beam, don't panic at once but find out if it was designed as elastic or plastic
22 hours ago

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