Guest Post - What Causes Hyperinflations and Why We Have Not Seen One Yet - Zero Hedge

29/04/13
Guest Post: What Causes Hyperinflations And Why We Have Not Seen One Yet | Zero Hedge
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Guest Post: What Causes Hyperinflations And Why We Have Not Seen One Yet
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/19/2012 19:55 -0400
Submitted by Martin Sibileau of A View From The Trenches blog, What causes hyperinflations? The answer is: Quasi-fiscal deficits! Why have we not seen hyperinflation yet? Because we have not had quasifiscal deficits! As anticipated in my previous letter, today I want to discuss the topic of high or hyperinflation: What triggers it? Is there a common feature in hyperinflations that would allow us to see one when its coming? If so, can we make an educated guess as to when to expect it? The analysis will be inductive (breaking with the Austrian method) and in the process, I will seek to help Peter Schiff find an easy answer to give the media whenever hes questioned about hyperinflation. If my thesis is correct, three additional conclusions should hold: a) High inflation and high nominal interest rates are not incompatible but go together: There cannot be hyperinflation without high nominal interest rates, b) The folks at the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee will eventually be out of a job, and c) Jim Rogers will have been proved wrong on his recommendation to buy farmland. (Before we deal with these questions, a quick note related to my last letter: A friend pointed me to this article in Zerohedge.com, where the problem on liquidity being diverted back to shareholders in the form of share buybacks and dividends was exposed, before I would bring it up, on my letter of March 4th. )
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A forensic analysis on dead currencies

When I think of hyperinflation, I think of dead currencies. They are the best evidence. There is a common pattern to be found in every one of them and no, I am not talking of six-to-eight-figure denomination bills or shortages of goods. These are just symptoms. Behind the death of every currency in modern times, there has been a quasi-fiscal deficit causing it. Thus, briefly, when someone asks: What causes hyperinflations? The answer is: Quasi-fiscal deficits! Why have we not seen hyperinflation yet? Because we have not had quasi-fiscal deficits!
What is a quasi-fiscal deficit?

A quasi-fiscal deficit is the deficit of a central bank. From Germany to Argentina to Zimbabwe, the hyper or high inflationary processes have always been fueled by such deficits. Monetized fiscal deficits produce inflation. Quasi-fiscal deficits (by definition, they are monetized) produce hyperinflation. Remember that capital losses due to the mark down of assets do not affect central banks: They simply dont need to mark to market. They mark to model. The only losses that can meaningfully affect central banks stem from flows (i.e. deficits), like net interest losses. These losses result from paying a higher interest on their (i.e. central banks) liabilities than what they receive from their assets. These losses leave central banks no alternative but to monetize them, in a deadly feedback loop. They are like black holes: Once trapped into them, there is no way out, because (fiscal) spending cuts are no longer relevant, unless they produce a surplus material enough to offset the quasi-fiscal deficits. And that, by definition, is impossible. This raises questions like: Why would a central bank need to pay interest on its liabilities? Why would the monetization of the losses necessarily lead to a spiralling process?
www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-19/guest-post-what-causes-hyperinflations-and-why-we-have-not-seen-one-yet
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Why would a central bank need to pay interest on its liabilities?

This is a key point to understand inflation. According to mainstream economists, inflation is a process that pops once the potential output gap of a currency zone is eliminated. Inflation is the consequence of reaching full employment of resources, they say, and place the situation within the context of hydraulics. In the figure below, I illustrate this context, showing two glasses: One is not full, and therefore, there should not be inflationary pressures.
Please, do not laugh at the figure. It also contains a citation from a speech given by Feds Governor Jeremy C. Stein a few months ago, that uses this same metaphor to illustrate how the Fed thinks about their policies. If it wasnt so sad, it would be comic. And it is sad because there is absolutely no historical evidence of a nation sustainably living under inflation that would have reached full employment. In fact, it is quite the opposite: Inflation breeds unemployment, which breeds shortages and further inflation. This is why this whole situation is so sad. Millions of lives have been and will continue to be ruined because of this error. The truth is however that inflation and financial repression are inseparable. They are different faces of the same coin, and as inflation develops, financial repression morphs into plain confiscation. As at December 2012, we have only had increasing financial repression, mostly in the form of price manipulation. Some of this manipulation is open, as with interest rates, and some of it is covered, as with gold, the consumer price index or the unemployment rate. But as the US fiscal deficits grows, the manipulation will be increasingly open and the fear of confiscation will be very tangible. Yes, the manipulation will be so open that even the GATA (Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee) will completely lose its raison dtre. It will be worthless to expose what will be public. With regards to the fear of confiscation, there is a good example in the drop in deposits from the banks in the periphery of the Euro zone. Any rational investor could see that his bank was being coerced into purchasing the worthless debt of its sovereign and that the likelihood of being caught in a bank run was exponentially rising. Policy makers in the Euro zone chose not to confiscate. It was too early to do so, in the presence of other alternatives. But deposits dropped nevertheless, and to restore them, the European Central Bank will have to pay higher interest rates on its sterilized purchases, when it finally engages in Open Monetary Transactions (i.e. purchase of sovereign debt with maturity under three years). I explained this in September: Since the backstop of the ECB removes jump-to-default risk from the front end (i.e. 1 to 3 years, in sovereign debt), selling the sovereign debt to the central bank for cash will be a losing proposition for banks. The Euro zone banks will demand that the purchases be sterilized, to receive central bank debt in exchange and at an acceptable interest rate. This rate will have to be higher than it currently is. This is why, in my opinion, we are seeing a stronger Euro and weaker Treasuries.
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Why would a government want to maintain a certain level of deposits?
Governments need bank deposits to fund the bonds they force their banks to buy. The regulations, the pressure on the bankers, the open threats are all part of the same means to coerce bankers to fund their debts with your savings. Is this what was behind the failed moves in 2012 to destroy the US money market funds? Essentially, hyperinflation is the ultimate and most expensive bailout of a broken banking system, which every holder of the currency is forced to pay for in a losing proposition, for it inevitably ends in its final destruction. Hyperinflation is the vomit of economic systems: Just like any other vomit, its a very good thing, because we can all finally feel better. We have puked the rotten stuff out of the system.
Why would depositors not want to renew deposits?

Whenever the weight of deficits passes a certain milestone, people begin to flee en masse from the system. They not only take their savings from the system, but they generate income outside it too. This has happened since times immemorial. Below is a picture of buried coins, found in Hertfordshire. They are presumed to have been hoarded in 4th century during the final years of Roman rule.
Then and now, the tax pressure ended breaking capital markets and trade. In the early stages, everyone seeks to stop investing and collect by any means whatever capital that can be recovered. Nobody should be surprised if, with these low interest rates, the wave of share buybacks and dividend payments increases. The shrinkage of the system exacerbates the fall in tax revenue and the intervention of central banks, leading to the self fulfilling outcome of quasi-fiscal deficits. Production falls and the shortage of goods, together with the increase in the circulation of money, triggers high inflation. Price controls follow. If this is correct, Jim Rogers is wrong and you should not buy farmland. Farming will not be profitable. The increase in food prices would not be a signal to encourage farming, but the reflection of the fact that farming is not profitable because it is easy to tax. Hence, the food shortages. The same applies to real estate in general, as the rule of the mob spreads and the rights of debtors and tenants are favoured over those of creditors and landlords. Hyperinflation therefore is not just a run from a currency, but from the economic system entirely. Thousands of years of Diaspora are screaming to us in the face that the advantage of gold as an easy-to-transport and store asset is not to be underestimated.
Why have we not seen a quasi-fiscal deficit yet and how close are we too see one?
I think that at this point one can easily see how high nominal interest rates (to attract deposits) and hyperinflation go together. The loss of confidence in the system pushes nominal rates higher, which causes even more pain to produce, unleashing shortages of goods and higher prices. Von Mises, for instance, remembered that in the case of the German hyperinflation, With a (my note: nominal) 900 per cent interest rate in September 1923 the Reichsbank was practically giving money away (Chapter 7, in Money, Method, and the Market Process). Frankly, I do not have a definitive answer to the question of why we have not seen a quasi-fiscal deficit yet. But I can intuit that we are still far from seeing one. There are many factors at play. The existence of coercive pension plans (i.e. monies coercively taken from salaries to fund collective distributions) could be playing an important role. These funds are other peoples monies to their managers and they will not risk their careers to protect them from governments that force them to assign a zero risk weight to US Treasury holdings. It is conceivable that as funds are burdened with losses, the contributors wake up to
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them and decide that at a certain point, one is better off working outside the system than in it, to avoid this hidden tax. Just like Romans left the city, millions of workers in the developed world may decide to become self-employed and leave the system. This is a typical characteristic of under-developed economies. So far, the Federal Reserve does not even need to sterilize what it prints. The European Central Bank did have to sterilize but the market does not demand an interest rate on its liabilities, higher than that of the sovereign debt it purchases. Not yetPerhaps because the market somehow still believes that institutional structure of the European Monetary Union is fixable. Further downgrades in the risk rating of core Europe, the concurrent rise in the yields ofGermanys sovereign debt and corporate defaults in USD denominated bonds will eventually wipe this belief. For now, the European Central Bank has been successful in not even having to pay interest on deposits. If I have to think of a main and most likely trigger of quasi-fiscal deficits, I have to name the future bailout of the next wave in corporate defaults, particularly from the Euro zone.
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Racer Banking system = fractal destruction cycle
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:03 |
formadesika3
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:13 | Long before we reach hyperinflation, your savings have been wiped out.
formadesika3 Forgot sumpn.
Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:33 |
... unless you save in gold & silver.
THX 1178
Wed,
What about debts? 12/19/2012 22:36 |
bigmikeO
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:10 | I'm guessing that our "dear leaders" are thinking that we can muddle our way through for 20 more years like Japan. The thing I'm concerned about is that everything moves a whole lot faster than yester-year. Facebook, Groupon, Pinterest - the Internet can accelerate at breakneck speed, so the 15 minutes after "The View" does a story on "should you spend all of your money asap?" hyperinflation kicks off and then ends within 6 months. (With lots of death and destruction).
BraveSirRobin
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
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It seems the current 21:01 | bubble is in guns and ammunition. Of all the bubbles to worry about, perhaps this is the one.
sessinpo
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 09:50 | Or it might be a bubble multi decade bubble in liberalism and ignorance. In which the ones that need to worry are the liberals - they just be about ready to pop in a bad way.
spinone
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:06 | Interest rates will never have to go up in the USA, as long as the dollar is WRC the Fed can monetize as much as it wants.
Al Huxley
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:19 | Yep, lucky no other country out there is angling to take over the role of WRC provider. Infinite prosperity for everybody. I'm just looking forward to the day when all taxes are abolished and everything is just outright monetized without consequence.
Assetman
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
23:20 | ... this assumes that the Fed is the marginal price setter for pricing what is considered "risk-free" Treasury assets across the curve. Today, that is certainly the case. Tomorrow? Who knows?
Flakmeister
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:08 | We'll be fine along as the House of Saud stays in power and there is more net exports of oil on the market than there are net US imports... Upper limit 20 years.... tops... Edit: For perspective, check this out... http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll225/Fmagyar/Oilreserves1_zps45f0ebc3.jpg
Body of Lies
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
01:20 | You are right about Saudi Arabia ... and if you are looking for trigger event it will be th fall of Saud. 1) Saud falls 2) Crisis prevails worldwide in oil pricing (If Obama is in office we're screwed, if a Bushie is there we have a chance by taking over Saudi Arabia) 3) Islamists come to power rapidly IN SA 4) They refuse US dollars for oil payment (demand gold only) since they are ideology driven, the money is not so important. 5) Energy rationing in US, colossal depression results 6) Dollar collapses as everyone tries to 'redeem' them for tangible assets 7) Reset ... whatever that means
ball-and-chain I asked my mother what
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:11 |
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causes hyper-inflation. She says its velocity. Picture this. Bernanke's man-tits are squirting milk to the hungry (his banker friends.) But there is so much hunger in banking land that his milk isn't distributed to the regular folk. Hence, no big spikes in inflation. Why? No velocity. But what does she know? http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2012/12/yesterday-dragonlady-served-beef-and.html
becky quick and...
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:12 | jim rogers (and me) advocate buying farmland so that you will not starve to death while the 'smart people' with underground food bunkers try to figure out how to 'save us.'
buying farmland is investing in 'staying alive, live, live, live, livvvvvvvvvvvve.'
Flakmeister Just make sure that you have water.... Which eliminates a lot of places...
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:16 |
Bohm Squad ...and water rights.
Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:38 |
kaiserhoff
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:25 | Farm land is a great place to keep your gold, guns, etc. I've never quite understood what any of the prepping supplies are worth unless you are part of several counties of folk who think and act like you. Getting more interested in specialty crops. I hate tobacco, but I've noticed those who are so inclined will pay almost anything to get it. Gray market, Bitches?
JohnG
Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:04 |
Prepping "supplies" are a method to get going. Gardening is a steep learning curve, as is animal husbandry, meat preservation, etc. Water is essential of course. One will need tools, and the skills to use them. I would like to be warm when the lights go out, and I will be. Preserving vegetables, while not hard, takes supplies and know how. Moral: Get some seeds and learn how to grow them. It will be at least two years before you have a meaningful harvest. Prepare now or starve. Learn to hunt, clean and preserve animals. Learn to raise them. Learn to find water. There is much to learn, do it now, or die.
Diogenes Everybody laughs at the hillbillies but they will go under last, if at all.
Wed, 12/19/2012 22:31 |
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Flakmeister Sure, that was never in dispute...
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 01:11 |
The question is do you want to live like that now....
ultimate warrior
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
21:01 | The way I look at farmland is (1) you don't need or want a lot of it (confiscation/theft could result if you have to much land) (2) Store what you can but sell extra produce at inflated price to pay off debt at fixed interest rates i.e. mortgage. (This was done in Weimar Republic). Farmland could possibly be a lifesaver.
vast-dom
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
21:03 | you miss the point: it is about taxes on farm production and just as importantly and unmentioned in above article, the gov jacking up RE taxes, which will occur 100% and thus extract from you wealth, whether saved in fiat or buried on said RE in form of PMs.
BraveSirRobin
Wed, 12/19/2012
Also, land can not be - 21:04 | moved or hidden. Time and again, governments have taken land from their owners and given it to its preferred constituencies.
vast-dom
Wed,
12/19/2012 hence the leverage of 21:04 | renters and nonland owners as per above article.
ultimate warrior
Wed, 12/19/2012
- 21:08 | The government can only jack up taxes so far especially in a hyperinflationary environment. Eventually the public will say get fucked while stroking their AR15. The black market will be flourishing and the government will be limited in their actions.
Body of Lies
Thu,
12/20/2012 There will no black market ... with 01:08 | everyone armed and the level of morality in the American psyche we become a Mad Max world with the strongest strong man in the area trumping all others. Take a look at criminality in the US ... Gangs can and will rule in the black market just as they rule the black market in drugs. One season of produce will mean a dead farmer. We become Somalia. You worry about Gov taking your produce ... at least they leave you alive
Rusty Diggins
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
22:55 | The point that is missed in the "buy farmland" meme is that you do not need very much for you and yours.... 10 acres will do quite well for
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a dozen paople.
Body of Lies
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 01:01 | I had a plum tree ... watched it every day until one day all the plums were gone ... warefare over farmland will result if it gets that bad
haskelslocal Why is this story so full of shit?
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:17 |
drbill What an insightful comment...
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:40 |
I am a Man I am...
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:18 | It also helps if you are a smaller country that no one likes or that a bunch of other countries are aligned against. Europe against Argentina, world against Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe because it is easy.
garypaul Good observation
Wed, 12/19/2012 23:18 |
notadouche
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:28 | Well I don't know about not seeing hyper inflation. OK maybe not hyper in the technical sense but when you compare the real cost of fuel, food, college tuition, healthcare, prescription meds, insurance, housing we are seeing plenty. It would perhaps be useful to measure inflation by the same definition as they did in say 1950 and compare. These govt stats are so watered down and manipulated now who knows what to believe. The planners have a number they want to publish and then work their way back to make the math work. Also measure the amount of food, any packaged food today vs what you were paying for 5 years ago and tell me there is no inflation. Same bag, a little bit more in price and a lot less in product. Smells like inflation to me.
balz Food is easy to tax ?
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:33 |
Go and try to tax that carrot out there in my garden that i will eat tonight.
Body of Lies
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
00:57 | Food on tax, and I'll get the carrot from your garden LAST Night
blunderdog
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
It's really just not likely we'll 20:34 | see hyperinflation in the USA until a meaningful alternative medium for exchange exists.
akak
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
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What has any alternative 20:48 | currency got to do with chronic governmental overspending, rising debt and its concurrent monetization? Your argument, heard so often, is in fact so lame and intellectually insulting it is laughable. Just for one example, the Romans' lack of any "alternative medium of exchange" did not prevent the utter debasement (hyperinflation under the specie system) of the denarius in the third century AD from happening nevertheless, leading to the effective (and permanent) death of the money-oriented economy in the (Western) Roman Empire.
blunderdog
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 15:16 | What has any alternative currency got to do with chronic governmental overspending, rising debt and its concurrent monetization? Nothing at all, but those things are not hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is loss of faith in the currency to the extent that it can no longer be used as medium of exchange. In the USA, in order for the "dollar" to go out of use, something else will have to be available. Too much of our entire SOCIETY is dependent on exchanging colored paper for it to *end*--it has to be subsumed by something else. Once we have other options, like easily located barterexchanges, or alternative means of transacting business, it'll be easy to dump the dollar.
Payne
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:38 | There is a run on the Banks today it is called default. $178 Billion in defaults today on mortgages. That is a hefty run on the bank.
AUD
Wed, 12/19/2012 Hyperinflation in $ terms is a 20:42 | run on the bank that issues the $.
ramacers
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:43 | fed can't eat that balance sheet any more than bonds will move at any rate when the jig is up. sh-- will hit the fan and blood will flow.
Bicycle Repairman Money shot:
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:46 |
"...the tax pressure ended breaking capital markets and trade. [...] If this is correct, Jim Rogers is wrong and you should not buy farmland. Farming will not be profitable. The increase in food prices would not be a signal to encourage farming, but the reflection of the fact that farming is not profitable because it is easy to tax. Hence, the food shortages. The same applies to real estate in general, as the rule of the mob spreads and the rights of debtors and tenants are favoured over those of creditors and landlords. Hyperinflation therefore is not just a run from a currency, but from the economic system entirely." Head for the hills. Your guns get used only if they corner you.
JR
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:50 | The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstone of taxation and inflation.
Thats Vladimir I.Lenin. And whats more thats the two-party tag team of Washington, DC, Obama and the GOP arm-in-arm with Ben Bernanke -- stealing, cheating, compromising and enjoying their positions. The American Thinker writes: We have seen this before. Lenin
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triggered inflation to eliminate the Tsarist monetary system, which he planned to replace with centrally-managed rationing. He increased the money supply twenty-five fold." Obama cares no more about Americas children or her elderly than did Clintons Jewish Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, who said the price of 500,000 dead Iraqi children for U.S. sanctions on Iraq was worth it. Case in point: The New York Times is reporting Obama will cut social security, but spare the Pentagon, by drastically reducing the spending power of Americas elderly using CPI gimmickry. It comes as no surprise, in that Obama made a promise to international banker Bob Rubin in 2006 that he would do just that. And while the cost of seniors non-discretionary spending soars, Security benefit payments will rise by only 1.7 percent in 2013. Obamas spending cut proposal cuts $122 billion by "adopting a new measure of inflation that slows the growth of government benefits, especially Social Security," even though, as Don Smith writes on OpED News, Social Security hasn't contributed a penny to the deficit. In fact, according to Paul Craig Roberts in a recent article: For the past quarter of a century the Social Security portion of the payroll tax has built up a surplus of over $2 trillion. Obamas stealth redistribution strategy is merely robbing the old to finance SSD and Medicaid for his constituents, including the bankers. A fellow I know (Ive actually had to help him out), has been addicted to drugs for years, has no job and every month the government puts a sizable cash deposit into his checking account. And then he was angry because I dont care for the poor. Why? I didnt vote for Obama.
BraveSirRobin
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
21:10 | Social Security was already looted long ago. Nothing in the lockbox except IOU's to ourselves.
JR
Wed, 12/19/2012
- 21:46 | Exactly. The Congress has been busy looting Social Security and other untouchable monies to use as general revenue for their favorite vote-getting programs. Then they simply add what they steal to the Federal debt figure but not to the yearly deficit and leave a worthless IOW in the Trust. As to why the sum of the yearly deficit and the accumulated federal debt doesnt add up to a new total for federal debt, the answer they give is that these disparities dont show up because we owe it to ourselves. In Human Action, Austrian economist, Ludwig von Mises, wrote regarding this economic accounting abyss and "owing it to ourselves": The most popular of these doctrines is crystallized in the phrase: A public debt is no burden because we owe it to ourselves. If this were true, then the wholesale obliteration of the public debt would be an innocuous operation, a mere act of bookkeeping and accountancy. The fact is that the public debt embodies claims of people who have in the past entrusted funds to the government against all those who are daily producing new wealth. It burdens the producing strata for the benefit of another part of the people. Congress is responsible for this grave injustice to the American people. And now you know why the bankers such as Rubin want to do away with SS: it ain't there.
Bicycle Repairman
Thu,
12/20/2012 The SS fund hasn't been 22:42 | looted. That's bullshit. Cut the defense budget and all the money is there. Run the numbers. Take defense spending and pay SS. The IOUs are still there. Do you know what IOU means? The empire was fun for some folks. Show's
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over now.
Body of Lies
Thu, 12/20/2012
It works the same in my - 00:54 | house ... I sock away money in the Boodle Bag and match it with an equal increase balance on my credit card and say 'I'm saving', but in reality, I'm going farther behind for each dollar I 'save' because I get no interest on it, but have to pay interest on the money I borrow. Unfortunately for us the Gov keeps a huge increasing credit card balance and robs the Boodle Bag at the same time
DavosSherman
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
20:47 | I'm not a huge rogers fan, but he's right, barring a population adjustment.
AGuy
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
Hyperinflation happens when 20:48 | Investors, consumers and business lose faith in it. Currently our trading partners still accept US Dollars for transactions, and have been holding on to surplus dollars caused by trade imbalances. Some trading partners have smartened up, like China, by converting their US Dollars into tangible assets (PMs, Land, rights to natural resouces). The dollar will tank when other join into China's diversification program, as there will be excessive number of countries willing to chase a small pool of tangible assests, and those with tangible assets are less than egar to trade assets for dollars. Consumer Credit, and Domestic Consumption are meanless for causing hyper-inflation. Consider hyper-inflation in Argentina, and the Former Soviet Union. During the period when currencies collapse, domestic unemployment, consumption and credit was deflationary. This is because the citizens had no money to spend and no access to credit. Domestically, they were in a state of deflation, but globally their currencies were distrusted. The lost of external confidence crushed the Ruble and the Argentina dollar. When Hyperinflation does arrive, It will be very devistating for Americans, since few are Americans are self-reliant, and America is very very depend on imports (energy, raw and manufacturered goods). I sudden collapse of imports would bring the American economy to a complete standstill.
Counterfiat Fail sorry. Back to the chalkboard you go. Why post half baked articles like this?
Wed, 12/19/2012 20:57 |
DavosSherman
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
21:09 | Another fucking ilene sailer boy special. Sad days.
jomama
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
was it: "Frankly, I do not 00:48 | have a definitive answer to the question of why we have not seen a quasi-fiscal deficit yet." that clinched it for you?
Counterfiat
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 02:47 | Seriously, I think the article was written by a kid taking over from a ZH editor that is now gone on holidays. He must have discovered a new word and just had to add it to his vocabulary and let it flap in the wind. I hope ZH in the future will send homework back from whence it came, after
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allowing the dog to chew on it, with a note attached saying 'we'll all pretend that this didn't happen, now lose it in the bird cage'.
DollarDive
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
21:32 | The fiscal cliff discussions are just the beginning of the problems. Remember, we've been kicking the proverbial can down the road for several years now. We haven't experienced ANY of the hardships of fiscal restraint. The sledding will be getting tougher. Fed is applying more pressure to politicians to cut deficits. Fed is running low on bullets. As more an more people fall out of society, due to lack of jobs, income, ability to survive - there will be repercussions. The government will need to confiscate more from those that are still in society to make up for the ever increasing deficits - as well as those that have fallen off the map. The gig is up. It's coming soon. I can't wait to hear those teachers and firefighters complaining about their cuts in income and pension benefits - It will be loud and will scare the markets. It will be like nothing the current equity generation has ever experienced. There will be fear. Fear will cause volatility and this will create more fear. Prices will drop. Rates will spike and we'll be in the same situation as Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc. We'll be begging from the IMF and the new socialist world government leaders. We're really just a sad excuse for another third world country.
topspinslicer
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
22:34 | You will know we are on the verge of hyper-inflation when Benny at the Fed starts laughing uncontrollably in front of CON-gress questioning him -- what gives benny boy??
Louie the Dog
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
22:34 | I got a headache just reading this article. I don't understand any of this shit. Someone just give me a heads-up before it happens.
Assetman Well... for starters, it's a poorly written article.
Wed, 12/19/2012 23:31 |
Body of Lies
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 00:42 | You are right ... when the average reader cannot understand the point, the article is not well written. I read it carefully and can't see that he made his case at all.
AUD It's also complete baloney.
Thu, 12/20/2012 00:07 |
Quasi-fiscal deficit? I don't think so.
dunce
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
I have no clue what the guy 22:52 | meant on buying farmland, but the guy that said farming would not be profitable had a point. What might be more to the point though is what is known as subsistence farming where you just produce enough food to feed your family until the financial debacle runs its inevitable course. Our economy is based on a very complex distribution system and i do not mean wealth redistribution. Hyperinflation results in plenty of cash but goods are hard to get. People can get by with the same clothes for a long time but people must eat every day. The govt. has a problem with forcing the farmer to deliver his goods to the market. Especially if the farmer has guns and ammo.
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alentia
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
23:13 | My wife went through hyperinflation, this is what she told me how it had began from regular citizen point of view (T minus about 8-6 months):
1. Everyday local media broadcasted "everything is good with the economy", people do not have to worry 2. Unempoyment was rising 3. Interest rates started rising in geometric progression 4. Banks advertising high interested rates trying to attract money 5. Smart few started to withdraw cash from bank accounts 6. Interest rates upto almost 100% 7. Run on banks 8. Prices rise in geometric progression 9. Absense to goods to purchase 10. Hyperinflation 11. Crash and Default
HEDGEHOG
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
23:13 | you can try to tax me into oblivion, but to try and take my land and the air space above it, that'll be where the shit hits the proverbial fan. as a most famous person of late voiced, "bring it on!" assholes........
cbaba
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
23:18 | Very interesting that the Author claims he knows what hyperinflation is but he misses the biggest reason why it has not arrived yet. He frankly admits that he doesn't understand.. In fact it is very simple, there is leverage in the system AKA shadow banking, which is an inflation buffer and its slowly dying... that's the reason why system is deflating.. in US there is 10 times more credit than real cash savings, hence the leverage is 10. In Europe they say its 30 times.. some say in France its 100 times.. Nobody knows exactly the real leverage is in each country but the effects are same in each country, when the banks cannot lend money/credit , deflation starts and credit dies, it shrinks , companies cannot make profit, start to lose money, lay off more people, less people buy goods, more companies lose money etc. this is the killing loop... Gradually Central banks print cash and add to the system buy it slowly adds inflation and at some point inflation will be visible and its not near yet.. buy all of us will see how inflation will rise and exponentially increase and within couple years will turn into hyperinflation, it can happen in any country and it has nothing to do with reserve currency..
Confundido
Wed, 12/19/2012 -
23:40 | Not true. The author makes the point on leveraging at the source: deposits, or money in the system. Leverage is money in the system. He also mentions the dumb money of pension funds. Another way to look at this is that even WITHOUT leverage, you can still avoid hyperinflation if the central bank gets away with not having net interest losses. It is a simple accounting demonstration.
sessinpo
Thu, 12/20/2012
Author: "Frankly, I do - 10:00 | not have a definitive answer to the question of why we have not seen a quasi-fiscal deficit yet. But I can intuit that we are still far from seeing one" I think this is the statement cbaba is referring to. I actually agree with both of you. But I also tend to keep things more
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simplistic. I suggest we do not see such type of inflationary pressures because, despite of the printing or monetary easing, we do not see that money flowing freely through the system. There is such an overhang of debt, that basically that money dissappears. Of course there are various details that change that simplistic statement, that equation. But that is the most basic form I can state it. It doesn't change the overall picture that this fiat system will likely fail.
neutrinoman
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:00
| Hyperinflation is a political phenomenon. It happens when a government decides to utterly trash its currency and monetary system. I don't mean a currency devaluation or bank reform. I mean utterly TRASH. The larger public eventually gets the idea and flees the currency. That's not happening in the US and is unlikely. What is likely is a 1970s or late 40s style inflation, sustained over 5-10 years, to erase part of the debt. This is already happening in the UK -although it's not hyperinflation -- as the BoE has abandoned trying to claim with a straight face that the inflation is "temporary." No one believes it any more, and everyone there knows what's happening.
sessinpo Gross misunderstanding of economics.
Thu, 12/20/2012 10:03 |
Stuck on Zero
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:00
| The reason we don't have hyperinflation is that spending meoney hasn't reached the average man. All the money printing by the Fed has gone to the top 5% and they reinvest it with the Treasury, Fed, or stock market. If but a tiny fraction of that money gets to main street we will have explosive inflation.
mkkby
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
01:11 | Stuck on Zero IQ -- of course it's getting out. What do you call trillion dollar deficits every year. Dot gov spends that.
Alpha Monkey
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 02:56 | And where do they spend that? The nominally paid gov't employees, or the overpaid corporates.
steve from virginia
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 01:26 |
More nonsense to gin up hyperinflation fears when there is too much debt remaining to delever.
Angels dance on the head of a pin. How many? Who knows but the central banks do not print, they lend, they do not create currency they create debt, they replace one form of debt with another, from one account @ the central bank to another account @ the same bank ... they cannot create anything real only claims against real things.
There are already too many claims ... way, way too many claims. Real things are gone, burned up for nothing.
BTW: there are as many reasons for hyperinflation as there have
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been episodes of hyperinflation, including in countries with no central banks. Asset price 'bubbles' are ipso-facto hyperinflationary with central banks on the sidelines doing nothing. In a debt-money system all banks and finance non-banks can create credit on demand. Finance institutions do not need reserves to re-lend and do not re-lend anything.
The only way (excess) reserves in central bank accounts can be deployed is during bank runs (when banks themselves are subjected to involuntary deleveraging). Sorry, FAIL.
>>>>>
AnAnonymous Another jaw breaking 'american' theory.
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 04:23 |
Could be elected as the poster child for 'american' justification for consumption: there is no other justification to be found to consumption than the capacity to consume. Probably a highly educated 'american' (consumption) who puts that previous consumption to good usage from an 'american' perspective: that is it allows him to achieve even more consumption. Same drivel posted by a non 'american', non graduated, non corporated employed person would be mocked for what it is and the waste associated to it would be immediately shut down. 'America' is a big club and if you aint part of it, you wont get the priviledges of it.
AnAnonymous
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
04:26 | And as the 'american' he is, that 'american' author thinks that he deserves every single cent he makes. Dont try to cut him down on his lethal non sense, he will call in his unalienable rights coming from the 'american' natural rights theory. Wonderful an 'american' world is. No digging.
TheFourthStooge-ing
Thu, 12/20/2012
- 05:40 | And as the Chinese citizenism citizen he is, that AnAnonymous author thinks that he deserves success as shown through examples like an hypothetical against reality based on supposed distorted view of an hand out given to Chinese citizenism citizens by grateful Tibetans. Don't try to sit him down on flush toiletry for his fecal non sense, he will call in his unalienable rights coming from the Chinese citizenism citizen natural roadside squats theory. Wonderful a Chinese citizenism citizen roadside is. No latrine digging.
TheFourthStooge-ing
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
05:27 | Same drivel, posted by AnAnonymous, non graduated, Chinese Citizenism Communautist Ministry of Truth employed propagandist, mocked for what it is and the waste associated to it is immediately laughed down. It is an observation based on collection of facts. Are Chinese citizenism citizens in love with battling wind mills?
bunnyswanson
Thu, 12/20/2012 -
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Lid has been blown off. Have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express? 06:30 |
Harrison
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 04:39
| Two points regarding farmland: 1) you can farm it, and eat what you grow, thereby surviving a general economic disaster such as what the Fed seems hellbent on creating; 2) when a new system replaces the destroyed one, the land will retain its value. True, governments can tax and confiscate, but at some level this becomes unworkable -- either because the government is pressured to stop confiscations (see the "foreclosure crisis"), or because individuals (e.g., Carl Drega) or the citizenry as a whole will revolt.
Azannoth
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 06:10
"Jim Rogers is wrong and you | should not buy farmland" - it definitely makes sense to have enough of farm land to feed your self and have something left over but becoming a food supplier is mighty risky as the government will disown you the moment the hungry masses start stampeding through town, just look at White farmers in Africa or even the recent Presidential Order(in the US) that gives him the power to confiscate ANY property in the event of a natural disaster
snowlywhite @Max
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 06:39 |
as someone living in hyperinflation - or ok, very high inflation, not hyperinflation, but still double digit inflation with the 1st digit over 4 or 5(Eastern Europe, '90s), contrary to most that post here, I beg to differ.
The mechanics of hyperinflation, despite the fact that many attempt to reinvent the wheel, are always lost of trust in the currency. YES, IT HAPPENS. The govt. can print till kingdom come, their action is irrelevant. Population will just move to a different currency and let them be. In my case(Romania), the economy was USD based, than EUR based. After 20 years, and still many ppl. don't hold reserves in the local currency.
You just use a different storage mechanism and convert in the local currency for current needs, being immune(bar exchange costs which is usually high in this case) to the inflation promoted by the govt. And still, a big part of the economy functions like crap in such a system. Anyone selling something to the state(which in US case is even bigger chunk than in my case - over 30-40% of the econ.?) is penalized since it'll be paid back in the local currency, leaving him exposed till he gets paid. That obviously leads to huge mispricing since everyone tries to guess how much they'll lose till they get paid, especially since, when econ. starts malfunctioning, the govt. will pay you back when they want, not when they tell you. Obviously that guessing produces prices having nothing to do with reality and reinforcing the cycle, since everyone will expect inflation to go up and putting additional margins to try and protect themselves from such an outcome. Which obviously makes inflation go up.
After 15 years of okish inflation, most contracts are still something like "pay x EUR at the rate established by the central bank for the day of payment". Ridiculous in a way, given how much the rest of the world inflates, but hey... what's far from you always looks better. Should the govt. try and manipulate the official exchange rate will just move more of the economy outside the system.
the reason there's no hyperinflation is because everyone inflates. So there's no refuge currency. USD + EUR more or less = the entire world currency. Everyone else has more or less to come to the fold sooner or later(see Switzerland for instance) and join the printing press. But when that'll happen(probably when mercantilists get tired of holding the bag), you'll have huge inflation in all importing
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nations. Sure, that'll affect fx rates and produce the waited rebalance.
The only reason why that might not happen for a long time is because the elite of the mercantilist countries have it good in such a system(China for instance - suppresed rates affect them way less than the average population since they get parts of their capital out and buy even more stuff), while the slaves doing the work have no power.
But really, it's totally naive to believe that having a printing press has anything to do with the ability to pay your debt. Everyone knows you have that press and you can use it. Heck, even 70 years old communist educated people figured out the action of our govt. in... less than 5 years. I'm sorry, but population isn't as dumb as economists hope it is(ok, I hold some reserves regarding the average Westerner since you had it good for so long, but trust me... need makes you learn things fast; bloody fast).
jmcadg Diversified portfolio:
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 07:34 |
Physical gold, silver, copper, platinum, palladium, zinc, nickel, farmland, food. A fair start.
Pumpkin
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 08:29
| Most of the money supply is credit. Banks do not loan the money they have, it is created with the signature and contract to repay. About 95% of the money supply comes into existance this way. And once created, it is used as a reserve in another bank so it to can create new money by loaning. The loan side is descreasing and the print side is increasing. Since the loan side of money creates 95% of the money supply, it takes A LOT of printing to off set any reductions in loaning. This is why there has not been hyperinflation.
Fix It Again Timmy
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 08:48
| If we haven't arrived at hyper-inflation, it's only because the bus is running a little late...
northerngirl
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:44
| So being stuck in this artificial market is a good thing?
midtowng
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:02
| So he's predicting food shortages, but not recommending buying farmland? Something tells me he's missing something.
bart.naf
Thu, 12/20/2012 - 16:46
| "There cannot be hyperinflation without high nominal interest rates"
Horse puckey.
The actual interest rate in Weimar Germany was at 8% as late as early 1923. Look it up... or don't.
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BTW: there are as many reasons for hyperinflation as there have

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