OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

Fridays (27 September 2013) Open Mike interview by Mike Sheahan with AFL chief executive, Andrew Demetriou, on Fox Footy, was obviously seen by Demetriou as a chest beating exercise. Unfortunately for him, paradoxically, some viewers could have been left wondering, who had breached Rule 1.6 of the AFL Player Rules Essendon or the AFL. Its hard to recall a chief executive making so many damaging mistakes in a puff piece. Demetriou 1: There are always things you think you could do better. The most recent one that comes to mind, which I have spoken about before, I wish we had been more vigilant last year when we were just starting to think, hearing things about sports science and the influence of sports scientists and we sought of had an inkling. I was privy to some information and (was) hearing things and certain things were happening Mike. At a couple of clubs. We were having doctors being marginalised. There were just things happening and it was part of an unhealthy and oh it was just an awkward trend which we didnt like and I regret that we didnt do something earlier. My Comment: 1. The AFL has a bi-lateral agreement with each of the 18 clubs. The AFL / Essendon agreement includes responsibilities that each has to the other. Inter alia, the AFL had a responsibility to ensure that Essendon provided a safe work place. The AFL failed to do so despite being aware that Essendon could be involved in activities which may not only have jeopardised the safety of its players but the integrity of the competition. 2. Demetriou admits that he should have been more vigilant last year. He admits to knowing doctors at two clubs were being marginalised . He admits to knowing that things were happening and he regrets he didnt do something earlier. These shameful admissions are tantamount to acknowledging that the AFL was guilty of poor governance. 3. For simplicity, its fair to say the collective penalty for poor governance at Essendon is a $2 million dollar fine; loss of draft picks; banned from competing in the finals; the coach James Hird suspended for 12 months; a $30,000 fine for Mark Thompson; and a four month suspension for football manager, Danny Corcoran. In fairness, as Demetriou has accepted some responsibility by implying that if he had been more vigilant the saga may not have occurred, one of two things should occur. Demetriou should cop a
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

suspension / fine / sacking or a significant discount should be applied to the total Essendon bill because there are now two parties the AFL and Essendon involved in poor governance. 4. A couple of Demetrious comments need to be corrected. I regret we didnt do something earlier. Andrew, according to your version of events you did nothing. Zilch. Bugger all. However, a number of Essendon people believe you did something for the first time on or just before the 3 February. Sadly, your multi-million dollar integrity unit did nothing. Second, you suggested you were hearing things last year (for the first time). Thats not correct. In July 2011, James Hird asked ASADA about peptides. In a commendable proactive response, shortly afterwards, the AFL integrity unit manager, Brett Clothier, contacted Essendon football manager, Paul Hamilton. Hamilton, James Hird and Danny Corcoran met with Clothier and ASADA on 5 August 2011. Yes 2011. Unfortunately, the quick response by the AFL was spoilt a little because the AFL breached its own anti-doping code by contacting Hamilton and not the Essendon chief executive or the Essendon chairman. Another example of poor governance by the AFL. Please factor in another discount to the Essendon bill. 5. If Demetriou were a little shy in admitting his responsibility for poor governance, his deputy chief executive, Gillon McLachlan wasnt. In an interview on SEN Radio on 28 August 2013, he all but accepted major responsibility on behalf of the AFL for the debacle when he told SEN Radio Im happy to take that on the chin in the sense that if we had gone out there every month and monitored it, then maybe we wouldnt be in this situation. The AFL dropped the ball by not monitoring the Essendon supplement program after advising coach James Hird to steer clear of using peptides in August 2011. The fact potentially though that we werent out there regularly monitoring is potentially a failing of the AFL. 6. Quote: If we had gone out there every month and monitored it, then maybe

we wouldnt be in this situation

(my emphasis) unquote. Im not

that bright but the way I interpret those words of McLachlan, he is saying that if the AFL had done something (given it was aware of a potential problem) the whole saga may not have happened. This admission raises four questions:
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

a) Is standing aside and doing nothing the same as pulling the trigger? I say it is. b) Did the AFL breach Rule 1.6 of the AFL Player Rules and bring the game into disrepute? c) Should the Essendon penalties be withdrawn or severely discounted? d) Should Demetriou, McLachlan and every Commissioner be suspended and / or fined?

Demetriou 2: Im not responsible for a club that decides to go down a supplement route. My Comment: 1. In Demetrious own words, and in the words of his deputy chief executive, he was aware of a potential problem and he did nothing. 2. Demetriou had a responsibility to do everything to ensure his clubs maintained a safe work place. 3. Nearly as important as safety, Demetriou had a responsibility to maintain the integrity of the competition and protect the image of the game. The AFL was told in 2011 that Essendon had approached ASADA about peptides. Demetriou had a responsibility to the 17 clubs to ensure that no club implemented an illegal peptides program. Demetriou did nothing. Ironically, the number of drug tests of AFL players declined in 2012. The AFL, as McLachlan suggested, should have monitored Essendon monthly. It should have visited every club to ascertain whether its record keeping and occupational health and safety procedures complied with the OH&S Act. Id be surprised if any of the clubs complied. 4. On 9 April 2013, the Australian newspaper reported that Demetriou claimed that the AFL had introduced sweeping changes to its 2009 anti -doping code. By anyones definition that suggests, that like Essendon, the AFLs
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

procedures and protocols were inadequate in 2011 and 2012, which is further proof of poor governance by the AFL. 5. An alcoholic cant fix his alcoholism until he acknowledges he is an alcoholic. If Demetriou doesnt accept that the AFL has a responsibility to be vigilant and ensure its clubs dont breach WADAs rules when he has an inkling of it, and doctors are being marginalised, he should leave the company car keys at the door on the way out. Demetriou 3: We invested back in 2008 in an integrity unit and that was at the instigation of Adrian Anderson. We have invested heavily, millions of dollars in resourcing it with people, surveillance technology and when you do that over the years, and we are five years down the track, you are going to find out things. And we make no apology for protecting the integrity of the code. It s happening on my watch but we are finding out things. Id rather find out the things than not and this argument that it is happening and that you are in charge, absolutely I am in charge and thats why the integrity unit is in charge to find out these things and we found them out and seriously the code is in an infinitely better place, because we have found out these things than they are all happening under the radar. I mean if there are clubs out there trying to do something Mike we will find out. My Comment: My understanding is the Integrity Unit has discovered very little. The two major issues since its formation have been the Essendon supplements saga and the Melbourne tanking saga. The Integrity Unit didnt discover either, despite there being enough evidence for Stevie Wonder to discover it. According to Demetriou, Essendon self-reported, and to my knowledge, in the biggest shock since OJ, the Integrity Unit acquitted Melbourne of tanking. In fairness to the units prowess and vigilance, I vaguely recall the Integrity Unit discovering a few $2 bets by family members of players. Demetriou 4: [I] Absolutely [agree the image of the game has been tainted until the finals came around]. Well thats whats happened. Absolutely, unequivocally, and I cant argue with it and thats why Essendon were charged with bringing the game into disrepute. Its a serious charge and they were found guilty of that.

OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

My Comment: 1. This implies a trial took place, which is not true. Essendon was charged with breaching Rule 1.6 (bringing the game into disrepute) because of poor governance and pleaded guilty. Essendons poor governance was determined by the Switkowski Report. This report was commissioned as an internal report by Essendon. How it could be used by the AFL to penalise Essendon is beyond me, particularly because of its major shortcomings. I hope the AFL contributed to the cost of the report. I have only read the executive report, which was released to the public, and it is beyond my comprehension how anyone could write (or use) a report that doesnt canvass the AFLs responsibilities to Essendon, and also doesnt mention the Victorian Occupational Health and Safety Act, nor the legal responsibilities of the Essendon Board. In my view, it should be thrown in the bin. 2. The charge of bringing the game into disrepute was outrageous and over the top. It was a self-inflicted wound by the AFL. The AFL was like an arsonist in a firemans uniform. It created a little fire, apparently to ingratiate itself with the government; poured petrol on the flames; and then thought the only way it could save face was by laying vexatious charges and implementing extraordinary penalties. In contrast to the severity of the AFL penalties, 269 people have died in work related accidents in Victoria since 2002, and the average fine was $170,000. 3. Poor governance comes from ignorance and apathy. The AFL and the Essendon Board were equally responsible. James Hird was way down the chain. The Victoria OH&S Act states that the members of the board have the principle responsibility. If the Essendon Board members didnt fulfil their responsibilities under the OH&S Act, how would Hird know his responsibilities? He probably didnt even know there was an OH&S Act, let alone what his responsibilities were. Hird wasnt even given an OH &S Manual, let alone OH&S training. 4. On 2 June 2011, two lawyers from Clayton Utz, Dr Graham Smith and Robert French presented a paper on National OH&S laws from 1 January 2012. Although Victoria hasnt embraced it yet, existing legislation means Victorian businesses and organisations have similar responsibilities. The key points were:
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

Directors and officers have new obligations to ensure businesses are complying with their safety obligations under new occupational, health and safety laws. Company directors and officers will have to exercise "due diligence" to ensure that their business complies with its safety obligations. This means that officers could be liable for breaches of safety without an incident or accident even occurring. Under the new legislation, in exercising due diligence, officers must take reasonable steps to: acquire and keep up-todate knowledge of work health and safety matters; gain an understanding of the nature of the operations of the business and the hazards and risks associated with those operations; ensure the business has available for use, and uses, appropriate resources and processes to eliminate or minimise risks to health and safety; and ensure the business has appropriate processes for receiving and considering information regarding safety incidents, hazards and risks and responding in a timely way to that information; ensure that the business has, and implements, processes for complying with its obligations under the new laws which may include: ensuring the provision of training and instruction to workers about work, health and safety; ensuring that health and safety representatives receive their entitlements to training. Some practical steps that officers might consider implementing include: receiving and undertaking training in OH&S matters; ensuring they receive minuted updates on safety matters at annual board meetings; ensuring that they are aware of the budgets that are allocated to OH&S matters in their business; ensure there are appropriate processes in place for reporting and responding to health and safety issues boards should, at a minimum, consider reports from management that company processes have been reviewed by a person with knowledge of OH&S processes; and ensure that appropriate resources are allocated to OH&S through a OH&S audit that is a regular item for any audit and risk committee of a Board of Directors. 5. The vast majority of firms / organisations in Australia, like Essendon, and I suspect many of the AFL clubs, breach the Act every day.
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

Demetriou 5: [I dont] entirely [agree that in the cases of James Hird and Bruce Reid it was threatened legal action and (the AFL) did a deal and brought about a conclusion before the public were informed about all the things that had happened.] My Comment: Demetriou must believe in the tooth fairy if he doesnt accept that this is what entirely happened. Demetriou 6: There was the Essendon Football Club that faced a number of charges. There were four individuals including James Hird who faced charges and also including Bruce Reid. The Essendon matter, and I wasnt involved in what was going on, they fronted the Commission in the end, was resolved and they accepted the charges and the guilt and they were dealt with. My Comment: Correct. However, I am amazed that Demetriou wasnt involved in what wasnt going on. It was the biggest issue in the history of Australian football and he claims he not only wasnt involved, but he wanted Sheahan (and us) to believe he wasnt across everything. Demetriou 7: I said I am dealing with Essendon first and they accepted their charges. My Comment: Correct. Demetriou 8: James Hirds charges were never dropped Mike. They were reduced. He was charged with four offences and he contributed to Essendon breaching the rules, bringing the game into disrepute and the sort of thing that was peddled by his lawyers has done some great disservice to say that charges were dropped because it is not true. My Comment: 1. This is untrue. The charges werent reduced. They were dropped. Hird either agreed he breached Rule 1.6 or he didnt. He didnt agree he breached Rule 1.6. I cant believe there is anything more despicable than two parties
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

reaching a settlement, and then one of the parties to the Deed of Settlement making untrue statements, which damages the reputation of the other party. Demetrious untrue claim that Hirds charges were not dropped denigrates Hird. The Australia Cricket Board pulled a similar stunt in a case involving me many years ago. It breached the Deed of Settlement. I therefore assume Demetrious comment also breached the Deed of Settlement, and consequently, gives Hird the opportunity to commence proceedings against Demetriou and the AFL. 2. James Hirds charges were all dropped. 3. Hird didnt contribute to Essendon breaching the rules. 4. Hird didnt contribute to Essendon bringing the game into disrepute. 5. Hirds lawyers were entitled to say all charges were dropped because they were all dropped. Demetriou 9: The Bruce Reid matter was settled last week as you would know and he has taken leave until January. My Comment: The fact that Bruce Reid has taken leave until January is irrelevant to the Reid case. All charges were dismissed. There were no penalties imposed. However, it appears Demetriou was trying to be a smart arse. Sheahans interpretation of this comment was that Demetriou was being very cute and was implying that Reids penalty was to take leave until January. Demetriou 10: You can interpret that any way you want but he has taken leave and he came out very strongly and is opposed to supplements use. We know that. And he said in his statement. And we agree not to charge him any further, not to take it any further. My Comment: We agree not to charge him any further (my emphasis) is disingenuous. Any further implies there was at least one charge. All charges were dropped.

OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

Demetriou 11: Sorry. We have agreed not to suspend him or not to take it any further. My Comment: This is nonsense. All charges were dropped. He had nothing to answer. Why muddy the waters by saying we agreed not to suspend him or take it any further? Demetriou 12: Well I wasnt involved in that [Reid] settlement other than to say what was taken into account as was conveyed to me was that he did write the letter. My Comment: 1. Please. Im starting to feel sorry for Demetriou. His comments are becoming embarrassing. I wasnt involved in the settlement. Hasnt Demetriou heard of collective responsibility? I stopped blaming the other kid when I went from the infants to primary school. Demetriou is the head of the AFL. If he didnt bother to find out the reason for the AFL dropping all charges against Dr Reid he should resign now. If on the other hand he knew the reason and was trying to mislead Mike Sheahan he should resign now. 2. When the Australian broke the story about the Reid deal, Demetriou indicated there was no such deal, and given he was the CEO, he would know. Now he is saying he wasnt involved. So what is it? Did he know or did he not know? 3. What has the letter got to do with it? Demetriou had the letter for months. Why did the AFL lay charges when the AFL knew about the letter? Demetriou 13: He wrote the letter. I am saying that was taken into account. He wrote the letter. Also taken into account his statements and [his attitude to] performance enhancing drugs was made very clear that he was going to take leave until January. On that basis the charges were dropped. My Comment: 1. This is garbage. If the letter got Reid off the hook why wasnt the letter taken into account before laying the charges?
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

2. Whats Dr Reids attitude to performance enhancing drugs got to do with dropping the charges. Why wasnt that taken into account before laying the charges? 3. James Hird made it very clear in writing that he was opposed to performance enhancing drugs. I suspect no one at Essendon supports performance enhancing drugs. If that attitude helped Dr Reid, why wasnt the same standard applied to Essendon and Hird, Corcoran and Thompson? Demetriou 14: No. I dont know[whether the leave was imposed upon him] My Comment: As stated previously if Demetriou doesnt know all the details of this saga he should resign. Demetriou 15: No. No. I mean I sit on the Commission and I wasnt on the sub-committee of the commission that was dealing with Bruce Reid. That was my chairman Mike Fitzpatrick; there was Linda Dessau; and there was Paul Bassett and that [matter] was dealt with by those parties and I wasnt party to that settlement. My Comment: 1. I trust that Demetrious fellow Commissioners are just as embarrassed about this comment as I. I suspect that the people who believe Demetriou doesnt know the reason for the settlement with Dr Reid could meet in the same telephone box as those who believe Melbourne didnt tank meet in. 2. I dont know what sort of world the commissioners live in but it is a different one from mine. My world doesnt accept natural justice is done if the one person / organisation plays prosecutor, jury and judge. The AFL laid the charges (prosecutor), intended assessing the guilt or innocence (jury) and determining the penalty (judge). As it transpires, they either thought the charges were nonsense or they thought the courts would find them guilty of denying Dr Reid natural justice. Id vote for both scenarios.

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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

3. Andrew, you may dislike James Hird but couldnt you have had the decency to say we were a bit hasty in laying charges against Dr Reid and we now accept he did nothing wrong? Demetriou 16: I thought probably what most people thought Mike [when I was listening to Paul Littles media conference and heard him say unequivocally that the Hird contract would be reviewed or extended for two years on the day that he was rubbed out of the game]. I just think, I just think people are entitled, as it was put to me. I have had lots of correspondence about this issue and about the whole Essendon supplements saga. The most correspondence I have had is about this very issue and the things that have been written, but I wont pass my own comment . But the things that were written were about, if someone is suspended, why are they rewarded with a two-year extension. Thats whats been a significant amount of correspondence on that issue. My Comment: 1. Demetriou must think we are all stupid. In the first paragraph of this quote he says I probably thought what most people thought Mike. In the second paragraph he implies most people want to know why, if someone is suspended, why are they rewarded with a two-year extension. Demetriou then disingenuously says I wont pass my own comment. Andrew you already did in the first paragraph. 2. Demetriou and the Commission, and the presidents of all the clubs, should get down on their hands and knees and kiss Hirds feet for him agreeing to capitulate to pressure from Essendon chairman, Paul Little, to abandon his Supreme Court action. Hird would have won his Supreme Court case, which would have been a huge embarrassment and humiliation for the AFL and the clubs. In any negotiation, both sides have to give something. If Essendon hadnt granted Hird a two-year extension to his contract, he would have continued with his case in the Supreme Court. He accepted a 12 month ban in return for the contract extension, and to allow the AFL to resolve the saga before the finals. Most decent people would appreciate Hirds sacrifice, but not the lynch mob in the media.

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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

3. Rather than lamenting Essendons action in extending Hirds contract for a further two years, Demetriou should be expressing remorse for the unfairness that the AFL got off scot-free for its poor governance while Hird was the scapegoat for the AFL and senior Essendon people and received an outrageously severe penalty for not knowing, and for not fulfilling, his OH&S responsibilities. 4. Rather than lamenting Essendons action in extending Hirds contract for a further two years, the media should have spelt out the OH&S responsibilities of those involved so that the public could judge whether Hirds penalty was fair, and whether it was wrong to extend his contract for two years. 5. This is the chain of responsibility for poor governance: i. As part of its bi-lateral agreement with Essendon, the AFL has a legal responsibility to ensure Essendon provides a safe work place for its employees. The AFLs integrity unit manager, Brett Clothier, discussed peptides with Hird, Hamilton and Corcoran at a meeting in August 2011. Clothier knew some peptides were legal and some were illegal. Knowing that the use of illegal peptides could not only damage the health of the players, but could also destroy the integrity of the competition and damage the AFL brand, and knowing of Essendons inquiry about peptides, Clothier should have visited Essendon and satisfied himself that Essendon had the correct OH&S procedures in place. If he had done so, he would have discovered that Essendons OH&S compliance was unsatisfactory. He s hould then have issued instructions for those shortcomings to be addressed. Given Essendons interest in peptides, Clothier should have visited Essendon regularly to ensure it wasnt breaching the AFLs antidoping code. If he had done so, the whole saga would not have occurred. AFL deputy chief executive, Gillon McLachlan, acknowledged the AFLs culpability on 28 August 2013 when he said: Im happy to take that on the chin in the sense that if we had gone out there every month and monitored it, then maybe we wouldnt be in this situation. The AFL dropped the ball by not monitoring the Essendon supplement program after advising coach James Hird to steer clear of using peptides in August 2011. The fact potentially
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failing of the AFL. And lets not forget that Demetriou knew about potential problems and admitted he should have been more vigilant. ii. The Essendon Board had a legal responsibility to provide a safe work place for its employees. It failed to do so. Inter alia, historically, it should have ensured a risk assessment was conducted at the club to identify all hazards; eliminated or minimised all risks; and trained all staff. Someone should have been appointed responsible for OH&S and the chief executive should have tabled a regular report with the board on OH&S matters. All of the above should have been repeated at regular intervals. Essendon should have had an Occupation Health and Safety Manual, which was freely available to every employee. Every employee should have been trained in OH&S and been made aware of his/her responsibilities. The pecking order at Essendon was the eight board members; the chief executive; the human resources manager; the football manager; the doctor; and then the coach, James Hird. If you want to be pedantic you could possibly throw-in above Hird, the financial manager who paid all the medical bills. A friend with connections to another club told me that Hird was never trained in OH&S; he wasnt told what his responsibilities were; he wasnt given an OH&S Manual; he wasnt told what records he was to keep; and sadly, none of the 12 people above him ever checked or even enquired whether he was fulfilling his responsibilities. Two further things should be taken into consideration when judging Hird and his penalty. One, Hird made it very clear in writing that under no circumstances were any performance enhancing drugs be used and no WADA rules were to be broken. Second, people should not think that because Hird is highly educated he should have known better about his OH&S responsibilities. The law makes the directors responsible and not the coach for good reason. Without wishing to be disrespectful to former AFL or NRL coaches, some of them would not have known how to spell occupational health and safety, let alone known that they had responsibilities in this area.

Demetriou 17: I think there was a lot of transparency around the charges being released and I think that a point in time when the report is tabled by ASADA that there will be more transparency around this issue which I think the
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people do want to get a better understanding of the issue and I understand that. Thats why you even heard me say during the time if it had gone to a full hearing there certainly was a view that we werent opposed to having a public hearing so that the people could get a better understanding. My Comment: This is Alice in Wonderland stuff. Demetriou may have bluffed the sycophantic media in Melbourne but fortunately, on the stupidity scale, some of us arent idiots but mere morons and cretins, and we can see through this nonsense. Some of us also arent beholden to the AFL. The first set-of-charges that were released contained thirty plus pages of charges. Many of these were vexatious charges, which appeared to be released for PR purposes. These charges obviously created a negative impression with most of the community. Even the wiz kids in the media outrageously related charges to proof of guilt. However, the AFL released three more sets-of-charges, which decreased in number each time. These charges were never released to the public. No one knows who was charged, and if they were, no one knows what the charges were. Demetriou was therefore treating us as idiots in claiming the AFL was transparent. Demetriou 18: Ha Ha. Okay, if I told you [Mike that Caroline Wilson was banned for three or four months in 2011 then I retract my denial] My Comment: I find it strange that Demetriou denied he had banned Wilson and then immediately accepted Sheahans word that he had told him he had banned her. I wonder whether Demetriou would change his mind as quickly if confronted on other issues under dispute. Demetriou 19: Having said that Im very clear on this point. Ive said often if a journalist writes something that impugns my reputation and it is factually incorrect and they dont resile from it, they dont apologise from it I dont want to have a relationship with them Mike. I have no interest in having a relationship with them. [Mark Robinson and Michael Warne]r. My Comment: 1. As James Hirds testimony was the catalyst for Robinsons story its laughable that Demetriou claimed he could be objective in sitting in

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judgment on Hird. One assumes he thinks the same way about Hird as he does about Robinson. 2. It is also amazing that not one AFL commissioner could see that Hird would be denied natural justice if Demetriou sat in judgment of him. Demetriou 20: [The story at issue with Mark Robinson was he was quoting from a Crime Commission hearing when he said that he understood that Demetriou alerted David Evans to the fact that the ACC was investigating Essendon]. Yes. And then he went on with it and continued to go on with it and was doubting my version of what happened. He was doubting David Evans version of what happened. He doubted the ACCs version that cleared it and ASADAs version. And as I said at the time if people think it is okay to put something out there that impugns someones reputation with the consequence of this one being that I could go to gaol, and that was not correct, I havent any time for them Mike. I havent any interest. I have no interest in anybody. It wouldnt matter whether it was a journalist or anybody. I dont want to have any relationship with that. My Comment: 1. This is a disingenuous comment. As I understand it, there were two versions of what was said. Demetrious and Evans version and Hirds and Corcorans, which appeared in the paper. Its nonsense to claim there was an ASADA version and an ACC version. Neither Demetrious version nor Hirds version was tested or was subject to an inquiry. 2. It is untrue to claim the ACC cleared Demetrious version. 3. ASADAs Interim Report discusses this issue but inexplicably doesnt mention Danny Corcorans evidence, which corroborates Hirds account. 4. I should like to know why the ACC made a comment to Demetriou about this matter and why Demetriou told anyone. I should particularly like to know how James Tonkin knew and on whose authority he was commenting about it to the media Demetriou 21: Its not Mike [a pretty savage response] If you think that it is okay to have your reputation impugned to such that you could go to gaol and
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its wrong and that you have actually stated that its wrong and you are still having your word doubted without any support, without any evidence when you couldnt possibly tip off David Evans because you havent got the information and you continue to go on with it. I dont think it is unreasonable Mike. You may think it is unreasonable. My Comment: 1. I have no idea who is telling the truth but I suspect James Hird feels just as aggrieved as Demetriou that someone doesnt believe his version of the story. 2. Demetriou claimed he didnt tell Evans Essendon was being investigated , and as Demetrious version of what transpired has been made public , I think it only fair that the other version be made public. Unfortunately, my understanding of Hirds version is based on conversations with a friend with connections to another AFL club and what has been in the papers. As I comprehend it, then Essendon chairman, David Evans, dropped in unexpectedly on Bruce Reid on Sunday 3 February 2013. Evans wanted to know whether the Essendon players had taken any illegal drugs. What prompted Evans to ask such a left-field question is the subject of dispute. Reid was shocked at the suggestion. The following night Hird was celebrating his 40th birthday with his family when Evans phoned in the middle of dinner. Evans requested Hird come to his home immediately. Bruce Reid, Ian Robson and Danny Corcoran also went to Evanss home. Shortly after they arrived Demetriou phoned Evans and Evans conveyed the gist of the conversation to them. Essendon self-reported the next day. 3. Given that the AFL discussed peptides with Essendon in August 2011, and given Demetriou said we sought of had an inkling (in 2012). I was privy to some information and (was) hearing things and certain things were happening Mike. At a couple of clubs, we were having doctors being marginalised. There were just things happening and it was part of an unhealthy and oh it was just an awkward trend which we didnt like and I regret that we didnt do something earlier, I am surprised Demetriou said he didnt know that the ACC was talking about Essendon.

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Demetriou 22: Well I wasnt proud of myself [laughing at a story about a short person being set on fire at a mad Monday celebration] because at the time I thought it was a joke. I just didnt believe the story was true. My Comment: 1. Laughing at a joke about a short person being set on fire is just as reprehensible as laughing if the story were true. 2. I guess if Eddie McGuire werent punished for his sick comment about King Kong we couldnt expect Demetriou to be punished. Demetriou 23: Absolutely none [leaking by the AFL]. Absolutely none. Because we take our role seriously, particularly in the ASADA investigation our part of the legal obligation we have to ASADA and we didnt. And this nonsense that has been peddled by those who thought it was a great tactic without any strategy somehow to discredit us proved to be completely futile Mike. It made no difference to the outcome that we are leaking and somehow tainting the process. Its simply not true. Mike, if we had wanted to leak t o get the outcome to save ourselves four or five months we would have just leaked the Bruce Reid letter. We had the Bruce Reid letter in our investigation so I do not share any view. And I do not concur with any view cause I know that the AFL didnt leak. My Comment: I have no idea who leaked. But I am surprised that Demetriou said: Mike, if we had wanted to leak to get the outcome to save ourselves four or five months we would have just leaked the Bruce Reid letter. This implies that Demetriou believes the Reid letter was proof of Essendons guilt and he had it for four or five months. I cant help wondering why right up until the Commission hearing on 26 August, Demetriou was claiming he could sit on the Commission jury because he hadnt pre-judged anyones guilt! In conclusion, as ASADA hasnt issued any infraction notices, the majority of the debate and media coverage should have been about occupational health and safety and who failed to fulfil their responsibilities. Not one word was written about this. Instead, the entire focus was on illegal drugs. Good for selling newspapers; good for destroying reputations; good for improving the profile throughout the country of Demetriou; good for securing more money for ASADA; good for postponing attacks on ministers Jason Clare and Kate Lundy
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OPEN MIKE SHEAHAN & DEMETRIOU INTERVIEW DISSECTION

for being dills; good for deflecting criticism away from the Australian Crime Commission for the damage it caused Australian sport internationally through its over-the-top media conference on 7 February 2013; but a disaster for justice. If Essendon were charged with bringing the game into disrepute because of poor governance so should the AFL have been so charged and penalised to the same degree, particularly as its two most senior officials, Demetriou and McLachlan, admit that if they had behaved differently the whole sorry saga may not have occurred. If the AFL had set up an investigation as quickly as it set up an investigation into Buddy Franklins move to the Swans, the saga would not have happened. Having said that, I dont believe poor governance by either the AFL or Essendon brings the game into disrepute. My experience in this area over many years suggests most companies and organisations dont fulfil their legal OH&S responsibilities. But I have also never heard of such draconian penalties for poor governance. However, Demetrious actions need to be put under the microscope to ascertain whether he still deserves to be CEO. Bruce Francis 1 October 2013

Authors Note: For ease of reading I have deleted all questions asked by Mike Sheahan. In the vast majority of cases Andrew Demetrious answers are self-explanatory and do not require the questions to understand his answers. In a small number of instances, where Demetriou answers with a yes or not entirely etc, I have included Sheahans question / statement in Demetrious answers with brackets around Sheahans words. As Demetriou will undoubtedly go over this piece, and the original transcript, with a fine tooth comb, I believe I have made sure that he has nt been misquoted or quoted out of context.

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