THE WHITE HOUSE

\J* Office of the Press Secretar

MAY 2 2 2003
Natona. Commission
fist Attacks
Internal Transcript / August 15, 2002

INTERVIEW OF
CHIEF OF STAFF ANDREW H. CARD, JR.
BY BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC

The Roosevelt Room

Q It's become a cliche that the morning of September 11th began like any other, but
it really did. And I'd like to take you back to the first time you found out something was wrong.
Who told you and what was the atmosphere like?

SECRETARY CARD: We were in the holding room outside of a classroom. The

President was getting ready to go in, meet with students to talk about reading. And word came
from the Situation Room that there had been a plane crash into one of the World Trade Center
towers. It was first reported to me by the Situation Room that it looked like it was a twin engine
prop plane. And so the natural reaction was. wh a l ;1 hnn-ihip ^rririp n ; ihp pilot miist have had a
heart attack.

And the Preskknijyas informed by Karl Rove, who was standing just as the President
was getting ready to go into the classroom. And the President went into the classroom and I
came back into the holding room. And then we received information that there had been a
second plane. And it was clear that the second plane could not have been there as a coincidence.
And it turned out that the first plane was a jetliner, the second plane we knew to be a jetliner.

And then I rushed to decide how to inform the President and when to inform him. And
the test that I went through, if 1 were President, would I want to know? And I felt very strongly
that the President would want to know. So 1 gathered my thoughts, tried to be very efficient in
the words that 1 used; and I took one step into the classroom, looked over to the press pool that
was gathered at the back of the room, and 1 remember looking at one reporter and she kind of
looked at me like, "what are you doing here?" And 1 held up two fingers, said "a second plane."
And then waited for a slight break in the conversation in the classroom and went up to the
President's right ear and said, "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack."

And then 1 pulled away from the President and not that many seconds later, the President
excused himself from the classroom and we gathered in the holding room and talked about the
situation.

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 Q You had the presence of mind to say, "America is under attack," which -- instead
of saying "don't react to what I'm about to tell you," or "try to keep a straight face and we'll keep
the event going." You really did crystalize it. That's exactly what was going on. It's fascinating
to then watch the President, who spent the next few seconds, I guess dealing with what must
have been the crushing weight of realizing, well, like it or not, your Presidency was just defined.

SECRETARY CARD: Well, it was a situation where 1 felt the President - first of all, 1
should be very efficient with the President in the words that ] would use. ] wanted to explain the
enormity of the situation without answering questions from him. I didn't want to have a
discussion in front of the classroom or in front of the media. And so I tried to pick words that
would succinctly describe the situation, and would require no explanation. And so those were
the words that I chose to use. And I knew the President would look for an opportunity to excuse
himself and come in and learn more about the situation.

Q A day in so many ways without precedent. At that moment, the wheels were
turning to get every commercial airliner in this country back down on the ground.

SECRETARY CARD: One of the unbelievable success stories of September 11th was
the way that the FAA, through the leadership of the Department of Transportation, Secretary
Mineta, worked with the private sector, all of these airline companies, to bring literally hundreds
of planes to the ground_safely in a very short period of time — not just the planes that were flying n
over U.S. soil, buFThe planes that were heading across the Atlantic or across the Pacific to the 1 A
United STaTH: ~ ~~~ " W
—-
And it was a great testament to the work of the FAA and the private sector to bring those
planes safely on the ground, not just in the United States, but in Canada, for example, where they
took an awful lot of planes on the ground and took care of a number of passengers that were
there and clearly had their travel plans disrupted. So it's a great success story.

Q What happens next? The motorcade forms up. WHCA, the White House
Communications Agency, were they able to bring you live pictures, were you able to watch what
was going on?

SECRETARY CARD: In the holding room, outside of the classroom, we brought in a

television while the President was in speaking with the students. So by the time the President
came into the holding room after I had informed him of the attack, we were able to watch what
was happening in Manhattan. But, obviously, we hadn't had any word about what had happened
at the Pentagon yet.

And as the motorcade was working its way toward Air Force One -- and remember, the
President actually went into the auditorium or to the gymnasium, where thousands of students
and parents and teachers had gathered to hear an address on the need to educate our children and
the importance of reading — the President went in and informed them that he was going to have
to leave, and leave Secretary Paige to continue on with the activities of the moment. And he
explained what was happening, to the best of his knowledge, in New York.

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 And the President excused himself and then we got in the limousine and headed off to Air
Force One. ] was intent on getting the President to a safe environment where he had good
communications - and, by definition, that was Air Force One at that particular moment. So we
were anxious to get to Air Force One.

As we were heading to Air Force One, we did hear about the Pentagon attack and we also
learned — it turned out to be a mistake, jxit we learned that the Air Force One package could, in
fact, be a target. We heard the code word used for Air Force One and there was some fear that
Air Force One might be a target, so we were anxious to get on the plane and get the plane safely
in the sky.

Q Once you were in the sky, it is said you took evasive action as an aircraft. Can
you describe that?

SECRETARY CARD: Well, the plane very quickly climbed to a high altitude and did
fly a serpentine route. We also communicated with the Defense Department and they scrambled
some jets that were able to catch up with us and provide some protection.

But we flew a serpentine route, we did not let anyone know where we were going until
literally just before we were getting ready to land. And we landed at Barksdale Air Force Base
in Louisiana, where the President was able to get off the plane and allow some of the other
people to get off the plane. And then he communicated to the world, via video conference,
because we did not have a satellite hook-up.

And then the President also spoke with his advisors -- we had outstanding
communications on Air Force One, so the President was never out of communication with the v
command structure of our military or_with the Vice President or with the Situation Room and Dr.
Condoleezza Rice, the National Security Advisor. So we had very good communications.

But that stop in Barksdale was an important one because it allowed us to get some of the
people on the plane off the plane, that didn't need to be on the plane. And he could communicate
with the American people through the media, and then get back on the plane.

And we flew to, as you know, to Nebraska. And once we got in Nebraska, the President
participated in a national security Council meeting by video — secure video teleconference. We
had close contact with what was happening in the military chain of command, as they were
watching the skies with the FAA, to see what planes were flying and where they were flying, and
where they might be headed.

And we were able to determine when the dust was settled, in terms of us being able to
predict the President's safety, so we could get him back to Washington. He was very anxious to
get back to Washington. He actually wanted to get back to Washington as soon as we left the
school in Florida. But I was resistant to that until the dust settled, so we could understand the
nature of the attack and 1 wanted to make sure the President was safe and that he had good
communications to be able to exercise his responsibilities as President and Commander in Chief.

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 Q You all, meantime, had families. The President had family on the ground, you
have family on the ground. Was there any time to call home, to call offices and check on
everybody during what was a terrible day for this country?

SECRETARY CARD: The President was able to talk to the First Lady. The Secret
Service did a wonderful job of making sure the First Lady was in a safe place, and the Secret
Service also did a terrific job with Jenna and Barbara, the President and First Lady's children.

The First Lady, as you remember, was on Capitol Hill, getting ready to talk to a
committee about education. And she was with Senator Kennedy when the attack happened. She
was taken from Capitol Hill to a secure location in Washington, D.C. And once she got to that
secure location, there was communication from the Secret Service to Air Force One, and then the
First Lady and the President spoke. They spoke several times when the plane was in the air, as
we headed toward Louisiana and then to Nebraska. The President did check on the safety of his
two daughters, and he knew that they were well cared for.

1, unfortunately, did not call my wife. And my wife is a minister and she was anxious to
_ hear from me, but 1 did not talk with her until after we arrived back in Washington, D.C.

Q ]t was a long day. Americans were scared. In addition to seeing the President on
videotape, the only other physical manifestation of the administration was Karen Hughes, over at
the FBI briefing room.

Some that day voiced, let's call il a "glancing concern/' if not criticism, the President was
gone loo long too much of that day. Now we have the beauty of 20/20 hindsight. Would you
change anything, if you could?

SECRETARY CARD: No, 1 would not. It was imperative that we understand that the
President has to stay in a safe environment where he has good communications. And that's what
our Constitution requires, I mean, because only the President can make the toughest of decisions.
And you know the tough decisions t h a t were put on the President's desk: should the military
have the authority to shoot down a commercial jetliner? That decision can't be made by
surrogates; it's a decision to be made by the President.

.1 wanted the President to be in a secure, safe environment where he had good

communications. And since we did not know the nature of the attack on Washington, D.C.,
whether or not there could be other attacks on Washington, D.C., I felt that il was important to
make sure that the President was in a place where he had good communications and could be
safe and could exercise the leadership that the country needs. He was very anxious to talk to the
American people and I was confident that we would find a venue from which he could speak to
the American people. But I wanted the dust to settle a little bit before we brought him back to
what was then an environment of unknown safety — Washington, D.C.

Q The quote that became famous was that it was a failure not so much of
intelligence, but of imagination. Is this government, can you assure the people of this country, is
this government thinking as i m a g i n a t i v e l y now as possible?

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 SECRETARY CARD: I am confident that we have the best minds -- not just in
government, but in the private sector, as well -- working to help protect America from another
attack. Can you be a hundred percent certain that there won't be another attack? No. But we are
ever vigilant, we have a new sense of mission thanks to the direction the President gave.

In fact, it was quite telling to me that he gave a new direction, a new mission to a
bureaucracy that needed a new mission, and that was the FBI. When the President had his first
briefing from the FBI after September 11th, it was very telling to him that the briefings focused
on, kind of, what happened yesterday, how did the terrorists get on the plane, what were they
doing on the plane.

They were building a case for prosecution. And the President said, that's very interesting,
but I want you to go back to the FBI and tell them to do everything they can to prevent the next
terrorist attack. What are you finding? Where is the next attack likely to come from? How are
you going to prevent it from happening?

And that was a change in mission that went to a bureaucracy that was very difficult to
accept change. And he drove the change down through the system. And, remember, Director
Mueller had only been on the job a few days before the attack of September 11 th. But he did
take the new mission from the President and drive it into that bureaucracy at the FBI, so today
they have as their top mission preventing the next attack.

Q Pearl Harbor, arguably, really did change everything. And despite predictions
that September 11th would do the same thing, Americans seemed very anxious to hold on to
their coveted lifestyle. The war has been a different war. It's probably been a different sell for
this White House. We're not rationing oil and gasoline and rubber as we did during World War
II and, yet, as you and I sit here, American servicemen and women are fighting a war. Has it
been a challenge to keep that front and center?

SECRETARY CARD: Well, the attack of September 1 1 t h was unlike any other attack
on the United States. We have been attacked before as a country. And we've even been attacked
from w i t h i n . We had obviously the Civil War. where there were attacks from w i t h i n . And we've
had a handful of kind of domestic terrorist attacks that had nothing to do w i t h kind of a change in
philosophy. We had the attack from the Japanese in World War II.

But the attack on September l l t h was really an attack looking not to invite a different
style of government for the American people or a different philosophy for the American people,
it was an attack looking to invite anarchy. And the enemy did not have a real home, they were
parasites living on others. And so very different from what we had expected and what we were
used to, and what we thought of as an attack on this country.

During the Cold War. the enemy was a philosophy and a system of government. And we
knew where that philosophy and system of government housed itself. This was an attack of
cowardly people, not looking to make things better for anyone, just to invite anarchy. And it was
an attack more than on the United States, it was really an attack on civilization.

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 And we have a civilized society in most of the world. And that attack on September 11th
was an attack on those civilized societies that exist in other countries, as well.

So, yes, it requires a change in thinking. It also requires the American people to
understand that this is not a war that will be fought in one on one battlefield. The battlefields
may not even have full definition, and they exist all around the world. The most obvious
battlefield was in Afghanistan. But the war will not end with victory in Afghanistan. War will
have to be fought on battlefields and banks, or in other deserts or in hideaways. And so we've
got a lot to do to win this war, and the President has resolved to see it through and make sure we
do win.

Q The Bush Presidency was changed that day, arguably it was defined that day.
Your job changed that day. This became a wartime White House, something no one could have
anticipated when George W. Bush was sworn in. How has that been?

SECRETARY CARD: It's been an appropriate challenge, because we elect Presidents to

be able tojead the unknown. And when this President took office, 1 had every confidence, every
confidence, that he had the capacity to lead this nation through the unforeseen challenges that the
nation would face. America did change on September 11th. 1 think the world changed on
September 11th, and all of us changed.

But the truth is, the President had the character and the discipline and the decisiveness to
be a good leader well before September J 1th. He was recognized by the American people of
having those qualities when he won the Presidency. And ] think now more people understand
the kind of leader he is, because the spotlight shines so brightly on September ] ] th, and he
preformed so well.

Q Is time for meaningful now? Is there a crispness to interactions with him because
of the seriousness of purpose that didn't exist? Does he get the unvarnished truth in very short
order from anyone in this building?

SECRETARY CARD: Yes. I speak very candidly with the President every day. And
my job is to have a relationship with him that is unvarnished. He tells me what he thinks ]
should be doing, and I tell him what 1 think he should be doing. And we speak very, very
candidly. And as long as I'm Chief of Staff, it's imperative that that by the way we function.

But this President has always been a very/dis£ij2iilie« individual. He's disciplined about
every aspect of his life. And I think that discipline-has helped him lead this country through a
time of great turmoil. He's disciplined about his faith. He's disciplined about his family. He's
disciplined about the job of being President. He does his homework. He takes his homework
home with him every night, and he shows up w i t h the homework having been done in the
morning. He's efficient about the use of time, his time and our time on his staff, and he is very
disciplined about making decisions. He understands that the toughest decisions are the decisions
that have to be made in the Oval Office.

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 And he accepts the responsibility. He does his homework so that he can meet that
responsibility well, but he does have the courage to make decisions and allow those decisions to
be made in time, so they can be executed well.

Q Fast forward to present day. You fly often on aircraft that say "United States of
America" on the side. But I know you also fly commercially.

SECRETARY CARD: Yes, I do.

Q And so you're aware of the charge that we're not yet applying common sense to
the airline security business, that perhaps it's political correctness, perhaps it's something else.
We know who did this September 11th. And yet my favorite story is, here you have Ohio
Senator John Glenn, as much a hero as anyone, being forced to walk through x-ray, repeatedly
remove his shoes so they can go through x-ray — probably the least likely man in the United
States to carry a device on board an aircraft
- because it's right now a very doctrinaire, everybody gets tested business. Is it going to change,
is it going to mature? It is the source of great frustration every day for millions of Americans.

SECRETARY CARD: I think it will mature. But most people are understanding that
they have to make sacrifices. You talked about the.sacrifices made during World War II, saving
rubber and saving metal and collecting. We're making sacrifices today in our economy for this
war. And one of the sacrifices is that we may have to stand in line a little bit longer than we
want to, we may have to take our shoes off and have them run through an x-ray machine. Those
are sacrifices well worth making to have a secure and safe America. And the President has asked
for us to recognize those sacrifices.

But he also wants our economy to work, and so he is calling for common sense at the
Transportation Security Agency. And I think we're going to get there. But we're still working
through the effort of having safe sides, so that consumers can feel comfortable about flying, and
meet the responsibilities of preventing a terrorist attack -- and we'll have to make sacrifices.

Q How often do you use the mantra: folks, we can do this. You know, we won
World War II. We launched successfully operations like D-Day. We can put air marshals on
aircraft. We can make the skies completely safe.

SECRETARY CARD: Well, I'm confident that we can do everything to secure the
homeland, except give a hundred percent assurance that there won't be a terrorist attack. I really,
unfortunately, believe there will be terrorist attacks against the United States. I hope that we can
anticipate them and prevent them from causing the destruction that was caused on September
llth.

But the bad guys are out there and they do want to hurt us. And they are very crafty. The
terrorists that did the dastardly deed on September 11th planned it for a long time, burrowed into
our economy, into our populous, and then emerged and attacked. We've got to be ever sensitive
that those kinds of attackers could be lurking in our society today. There are evil ones around

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the world that do not want this government to succeed in bringing democracy to more and more
people around the world.

So this is an attack on society and this President has been called to help prevent the next
attack. But, more importantly, he's been called to help make sure that the whole world
recognizes our responsibility as a civil society.

Q How much has this circumstance -- the Secret Service, their job to protect the
President — limited his exposure to the American people? Would things have been different
about this Presidency had there not been a September 11th?

SECRETARY CARD: Well, the Secret Service does a remarkable job. And they're men
and women of unselfish sacrifice, because they will put themselves in harm's way to protect the
President and to protect our Constitution. And the President knows that and he has great respect
for them.

There's always a challenge between a President and the Secret Service because every
President wants to be able the touch more people in America, and the people in America want to
be able to touch the President. It's the Secret Service job to be ever paranoid -- and they are. But
the President finds a way to reach the people and that's one reason he likes to get out of
Washington, D.C. and he travels a lot. He has great sessions where he invites people to sit
around a table and speak candidly.

And the President has an open door policy at the White House here — not that the
American people can come in any time they want — but if the President needs to see someone, he
sees that someone. And if someone needs to see the President, the President will see them. You
do know, though, if people want to see the President in the White House, in the Oval Office,
chances are they won't get to see him in the Oval Office and it's my job to police the needs
versus wants.

But this President is — he has a lot of ways to reach outside of the bubble to find out what
America cares about. He uses the telephone a lot. He's got great friends and they are not all
working in the White House. And he talks to them, he reaches out to the people when he goes to
Crawford and likes to travel around the country. I don't feel that this President is isolated at all,
but he does understand that the Secret Service has a job to do and the job is to protect not him,
but the President of the United States. And the President has a huge job to protect all of us.

Q What would people be most surprised to learn about this President's daily routine
that is not readily apparent from the outside?

SECRETARY CARD: Well, he's very early to rise and he's early to the office. The good
news is, he's also early to bed. He generally shows up in the Oval Office about quarter of seven
in the morning, which means ] usually show up at about quarter of six in the morning.

I mentioned that he does do his homework. He is very good about reading his briefing
papers and challenging his policy advisors. He's very efficient in having meetings. He has a

000061
good mix of meetings, those meetings are people who work in the government and people who
are outside of the government who bring concerns and suggestions.

He also understands the need to have a balance in your life. He's very disciplined about
his diet and exercise. He knows that if you're going to make tough decisions you have to have a
frame of mind that allows you to make those tough decisions with clarity. And so he does
discipline himself in terms of his diet and his exercise -- and I like to call it the merry part of life.

My job is to make sure the President, in addition to having a chance to handle policy and
marketing challenges and communication challenges, he also has to have time to eat, sleep and
be merry. And so I try to schedule the President so that he has time to be merry. And he is
merry when he is talking to his wife and his daughters; he likes to read a bd'ok; he enjoys
watching an occasional movie. And he likes to be able to think. So I try to give him time to do
those things, as well.

NON-RESPONSIVE
MATERIAL

Q The President had a huge bubble of good will after September 11th. No President
wouldn't, America had been attacked, after all. We have seen a diminution in his popularity
numbers. It is said now, if you watch the TV shows and read the op ed pages, he's going to have
to sell everything from now on -- the economy, if this war goes to war against Iraq. Is he
prepared in the bully pulpit part of this job?

SECRETARY CARD: Yes, he is. And first of all, his popularity is still unbelievably
high. He's got record popularity for a President, and his popularity has been sustained for a long
time. And I think it's because of his outstanding leadership and the fact that people respect the
tough decisions he has to make and they like how he has been making those decisions.

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 He also has to work with Congress. And Congress is divided. Both branches, the House
and the Senate, have roughly equal Republicans and Democrats, so it's always a challenge to deal
with Congress. Even if you were to control Congress, it would be a challenge to deal with them.
But this President certainly doesn't, "control" Congress. And he'll have to communicate with
Congress so that they adopt the policies that are important to the American people. He also has
to communicate with the American people and to world leaders around the globe.

And he understands that. This President knows what the job of being President is, and he
meets the responsibilities well. He's a good communicator, because he speaks candidly. He is
not one who likes to be poured on with rhetoric. He likes to pour out with candor. And that's
how he communicates with the American people, and he tells it like it is. And when he says he's
going to get them, he's going to get them.

Q No further questions, Your Honor.

END

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