Jody Lemoine: Masonry & Magic Neuromancer wrote: So define the purpose of Ceremonial Magick if it is not to control/conjure/create an effect

t of some kind using supernatural influence. I have read that during certain rituals the G.D. actually try to invoke the presence of Egyptian gods within the bodies of the upper-level members...would this not be considered conjuring?

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I hope I'm not straying too far out of the group's purpose by answering this... If you would like further information on the specifics of GD-style invocations, you would probably get more information out of the alt.magick group. In any case... according to my own library, the GD used the egyptian god-forms as symbolic archetypes of man. The invocation process didn't bring these ancient Gods into the individual, but rather used the God-form archetype as a sort of spiritual filter to emphasise or de-emphasise aspects of the spirit for purposes of the work to be done. At no point was anything external to the magician a factor. >>> Especially unnerving for me is the fact that >>> my understanding of Crowley's work (didn't he refer to himself as the >>> anti-christ?) was more of an evil/Satanic nature, >> >>Um, no. > >I disagree. Most of what I have read clearly states several of his Luciferian >beliefs and rituals...and he did refer to himself as "The Beast". Many things Crowley did were a result of his iconoclasm. Orthodox Christianity held quite a sway in England in Crowley's day... it made sense to take an anti-Christian approach if one wished to clash radically with one's society. Add that his parents were of an *extremely* conservative Christian denomination and you get a good chance that young Crowley wasn't going to be a good son of the Church. It's sort of like being a sexist in today's day and age as a response to one's mother's radical feminism. >>> and his leadership >>> position in Golden Dawn would imply the organization was like-minded.... >> >>Um, no. > >Perhaps, I am not a member of G.D. and wouldn't know. But if Charles Manson >was an upper level member of some group, I think we would be safe to assume >that they weren't baking cookies at night, hmm? Perhaps not. The GD *did* throw Crowley out on his ear before he started getting into his really radical ideas though. Crowley didn't get his Adept grade until after this. MacGregor Mathers brought Crowley into the Adept grade in Paris, at a time when the Paris temple and Mathers' magical activities were considered clandestine by the rest of the Order. I wouldn't consider Crowley an upper-level member of the GD at all. >>I'm no Mason, but I do strive for accuracy in matters of history.

> >My mistake...if I had know you weren't a Mason, I wouldn't have paid >attention to your original post. :) I'm a Mason, a Ceremonial Magician *and* an Esoteric Historian by hobby. But that doesn't mean you have to pay attention to this post either. 8)