Memo: Teleconference with Richard Beer

Date: March 26,2003

I sent the following questions to Mr. Beer via email. He called me in order to give his answers:

1. During the GAO-State entrance conference for the visa revocation job, Catherine Barry said
that several steps were taken when a visa was revoked: 1) the revocation certificate is faxed to
the INS lookout unit, 2) a cable is sent to post to notify it of the revocation and 3) an entry is
made in CLASS.
a. Once the visa revocation certificate is signed, who is responsible for making an entry into
CLASS? Is it the Coordination Office?

Mr. Beer: It is the Coordination Division's responsibility to make a CLASS lookout for each
individual whose visa was revoked. The Coordination Division officer who is responsible for
handling that particular nationality makes the lookouts. The lookout should be made roughly at
the same time the Coordination Division receives the signed revocation certificate from the
"front office" - the Visa Office

b. Before the VRVK code came into effect in August 2002, what refusal code did the
Coordination Office enter when it made a CLASS entry for a revoked visa? For example^ in the
CLASS lookouts I hav§ been examining, sometimes a "00" was entered, s^metimesra "P3B";
sometimes there was no entry which seemed to coincide with the date ofrevocation:

Mr. Beer: W&would enter either a 00 (double zero) or P3B (quasi-refusal terrorist activities); \V.
More likely it would be a P3B because that's more specific. We may do both a 00 and a P3B. J
And we'd make the same entryfor either a prudential or a standard revocaticmr Now that we
have the VRVK (visa revoked) code, we will enter that code. /

00 (double-zero) hits and P3Bs don't upload from CLASS to IBIS. A 00 wouldn't tell an INS
inspector anything anyway since the 00 is notifying post that if the applicant applies for a visa
again, that post needs to send in an SAO (security advisory opinion) before issuing a visa. So the
00 is a way for the Coordination Division to tell post to send in a SAO.

c. If the individual already had a CLASS lookout, would another lookout be posted to signify the
visa revocation? For example, if there's already a double-zero lookout on an individual posted by
DPTor by a post at an earlier date, would you still make a new entry to reflect the revocation?

Mr. Beer: When we make a CLASS entry for the revocation, we don't know if there are already
CLASS lookouts in place for the individual. In order to see past lookouts that have been posted
on the individuals, we would have to do a CLASS search on the individual. When we are
entering new lookouts, we just get a blank screen into which we enter the lookout. At any rate,
even if there were previous lookouts posted on the individual, we would still make a new lookout
entry to show specifically that the revocation was done.

d. Do know when the NSER refusal code was created? I know that the NSER program started in
September 2002, but I'm seeing many lookouts with the NSER code which pre-date Sept. 2002.
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Mr. Beer: The NSER code in CLASS was created in August or September 2002. It was created
so that the consular officer could flag that applicant for NSER registration - it's a flag to the
Immigration Inspector that the person has to have NSER processing done when he enters the
United States. You will often see the NSER code on people who need Condor clearances because
people who need Condors and NSERs fit a similar profile.

e. Should I expect to see VRVK entries for every visa revoked after August 2002?

Yes, there should be a VRVK entry for all visas revoked after August 2002, when we started the
VRVK code.

2. Does the Coordination Office decide whether a revocation will be prudential or not? Almost
all but two or three of the 240 individuals we are reviewing appear to be prudential revocations
(according to the cable that was sent to post). I understand the definition of prudential
revocations, but operationally-speaking, are prudential revocations different than "full"
revocations? I asked Hale Vankoughnett if there was anything in writing (in the FAM, for
example) which explained the difference between a prudential revocation and a non-prudential
revocation but he said he couldn't find anything in writing. Do you know of anything?

Mr. Beer: A "prudential" revocation means we're not sure we have the "goods" on him. If we
revoke & visa prudentially, we'd like the applicant to come back to post so that we can have
another look at him. Post would send in an SAO (security advisory opinion) on the guy before a
new visa could be issued. A standard revocation, without the prudential modifier, means we've
discovered the real reason for denying him a visa. While the FAM does include information on
revocations, the Visa Office doesn't have anything in writing on the difference between a
prudential and a standard revocation. It's a term of art.

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