Why Whites Are Blind To Their Racism

Why whites are blind to their racism | Abagond
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/why-whites-are-blind-to...
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Why whites are blind to their racism

Wed 2 Jul 2008 by abagond (http://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/swastikadress.jpg)Most white Americans are blind to their racism. At least seven out of ten. And even those whites who do see it, most think it is not all that serious. Most whites live in nearly all-white neighbourhoods and see nothing racist in that. And when blacks do complain of racism, most whites do not believe it. So why are whites so blind to their own racism? There is a short answer and a long answer. The short answer is that they are not directly affected by it. They are never at the receiving end. Because they are white. So when blacks talk about racism whites either have a hard time understanding it because it is not something they have ever experienced or they think blacks are making a big deal out of nothing: they are being too sensitive, they are living in the past and all that. That is the short answer. The long answer is this: America was founded on two crimes: taking the land of the red man and bringing the black man in chains to work it. To feel right and good about that whites had to be racist. They had to think of themselves as far better and more human than others. So not only was the country built on racism, so were the hearts and minds of white people. Back then racism was open, naked, violent and respectable. So respectable, in fact, that any white person who was was not racist, who related to blacks as equals, was called names or worse!
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But then all that changed. Starting in the 1970s racism became a sin among white Americans . It became kind of like how sex used to be: something you did not talk about openly and when you did you felt uncomfortable about it. It even had dirty words to go with it, especially the n-word. Racist became one of the worst things you could call a white person. Because racism was no longer respectable it weakened considerably. But it was still there , it was still a part of how whites saw themselves and the world but now they could not admit to it! So then it got strange: On the one hand, to hold on to their unfair position and advantages in society, to their white privilege, and feel right and good about it, whites had to believe racist lies. Like that blacks lacked brains or a willingness to work hard. And yet, on the other hand, they knew that racism was wrong. So in the 1970s whites reached a fork in the road: either give up racism and its advantage s, in pride, position and wealth, or hang onto racism by becoming blind to it. As it turned out, they gave up some of their advantages, like places at universities, but by and large they became blind. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. See also: Racism Vision Test (../2008/07/01/racism-vision-test/) What white people should know (../2008/07/01/2008/06/26/what-white-people-should-know/) colour-blind racism (../2008/07/01/2008/06/26/2008/06/25/2008/06/05/2008/05/31/colour-blindracism/) Whites are still racist (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/whites-are-still-racist/) All whites are racist (../2008/08/06/all-whites-are-racist/) Posted in 1970s, America, race, racism, white people | 169 Comments
169 Responses
maybe you see only what you want to see i want to say this in a kind and gentle way, so i will try. on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 05:33:16
most racist people are the ones who dislike a race for what has happened in the past, and act as if it is still the present. you say that whites are racist because they fail to see the racsim that you see. the only one racist is you. you think of all white people as the same, a racist thought. you call them whites a racist term, but yet the only ones racist in your eyes are the ones who refuse to see things the way you see them.
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people live their lives, and meet people, and in the past race had a part of who they met, and who they wanted to be with, but today the thought dosent even cross in our minds. we see people as just people. we dont make ratios on how many of which race we see or talk with in a day, because we dont see that, we just see people. however you seem to see things in the other way. you probably study the people around you seeing how many whites only talk to whites because thats all you see. if you went up and talked to the person, no matter what race you may be, they would probably talk to you just as they did to the last person. the only who who makes the seperation in this point, is you
Jack Stephens on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 05:40:03 maybe you see only what you want to see: Hahahaha, you faulty logic amuses me to no end! Thank you for a laugh.
Kate Your simple summary is excellent. (And painful.) Thank you.
on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 06:12:37
I think another factor may be this; the well-meaning desire not to discriminate, to not see race when it _should_ be irrelevant, can be distorted (mistakenly or disingenously) into a refusal to see race even when it _is_ relevant. (The only suggestion Id make is that the phrase cry racism sounds too much like cry wolf, as though the complaints arent genuine.)
abagond maybe you see only what you want:
on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 08:17:30
You said that I am the only one who makes the separation on this point. Wow, I only wish that were true. About 90% of suburban white Americans live in a place that is less than 1% black. Who is keeping themselves separate? It is whites who define themselves as white and define who is black and who is not. Against my will and to my cost.
abagond Kate: I fixed the cry racism. Thanks.
on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 08:22:33
siditty Great post!!!!!!
on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 11:44:27
most racist people are the ones who dislike a race for what has happened in the past, and act as if it is still the present. Did Racism end? When did it end, here in America it still exists, it isnt overt as the KKK and neo nazis screaming the n-word at the top of their lungs but it still exists, and to me for someone to not
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acknowledge that is racist. you call them whites a racist term What is racist about the term whites? people live their lives, and meet people, and in the past race had a part of who they met, and who they wanted to be with, but today the thought dosent even cross in our minds. we see people as just people. we dont make ratios on how many of which race we see or talk with in a day, because we dont see that, we just see people. That is a lie. I grew up the only minority as a child and even now into adulthood, I was constantly reminded I was different and that I was black, but my white counterparts growing up, I dont think of a day in my life during schooling that I was not reminded I was black. Race is still very noticeable, and for you to pretend racism doesnt exist, tells me your views on how you view blacks, otherwise you wouldnt assume black people are just holding on to the past. ou probably study the people around you seeing how many whites only talk to whites because thats all you see. Another lie. Whites tend to hang out with whites, blacks tend to hang out with blacks, that is just a fact of life, how diverse is the neighborhood you live in, is it reflective of the US population, probably not. Most churches, schools, and neighborhoods tend to be very segregated. Do you ever question why? Or are you just offended he called whites racist?
gigi on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 12:25:37 - Racist became one of the worst things you could call a white person. maybe you see only what you want to see proved this statement of yours true. She was offended by your calling white Americans racist, yet that is exactly what they STILL are
Nan on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 14:01:35 Great post. Im old enough to have seen the switch instead of being openly racist and using language we now view as blatantly offensive, whites will use more oblique language. E.g., Id use public transit but I worry about what kind of people ride the bus. We didnt want to move this far out in the suburbs, but we worried about what kind of people were moving into our old neighborhood. What kind of people = people of color, of course. Lots and lots of closet racists, and all of them unwilling to take a close look at themselves. For what its worth, Im white, but not blind or in denial.
stalherz This post is pretty much dead on.
on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 14:03:25
Is like to see you start posting some solutions to these problems though. If we dont come up with those, how will our children think any differently?
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Blanc2 on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 14:26:27 This post brings to mind some of my comments on a much earlier post (on this blog) concerning the negative effects of white PC liberalism on black/white relationships the manner in which this ethic quashed honest discourse about race and replaced it with uncomfortable silence in which racism can continue to thrive. Maybe Agabond can link to it. To reiterate one item in my comment, one of the very harmful aspects of this phenomenon has been so-called urban renewal, an insidious process if ever there was one. Who could possibly have thought that building huge concrete urban warehouses and stuffing them with all of the black people in the vicinity including hard-working Christian folks (who up until then had quietly been building and mending their own communities) and criminals alike could be a good thing? To all black people who feel loyal to the Democratic party, consider this next time you vote (well, not next time wait until at least 2012, or even 2016 assuming Obama is an incumbent in 2012). Somehow, the Democratic party has cast itself as the friend of black America when the facts suggest the opposite. Sure, there was a democratic president who signed the Civil Rights Act. He personally opposed the act and only signed it because of political pressure. Up until that time, and even continuing thereafter, the Democratic Party was the home of southern segregationist Dixiecrats, and that neo-slave mentality most certainly infused the urban renewal projects of the 1960s and 1970s. Im not suggesting that the Republican party has been any friendlier to blacks. But at least Republicans have been generally honest about where they are coming from. Recall Malcom Xs admonition that hed rather face a snarling wolf than a sly fox.
indigoblu maybe you see only what you want to see: The only thing you have done is validated what Abagond said.
on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 15:12:40
Stal: I agree with you, but first acknowledgement is need, and many white people, like *maybe you see only what you want to see, wont acknowledge it directly but usually successfully indirectly displays it in one way or the other. Without acknowledgement, little progression will follow. I find it interesting that you will even find white children in Kindergarten and first grade are even staying in their own little groups lol. Its insane because this is the age where children typically explore and are innocent, yet this mindset is instilled at a young age; most carry it throughout childhood and into adulthood. This was further verified directly from a lady I knew. I was once told by a white lady that black people teach their children to hate white people and white people teach their children to hate black people. Now, there is a concept. She can speak for her experiences (friends, family, etc) but not for blacks experiences because my parents never taught me, in any way, to hate anyone. Nothing in their speech or manner even suggested that I should hate anyone. If anything, they instilled value and respect of life that we are all human and no one is better or less than me, not matter what their color/lack of color or situation. Nan: Thanks for your honestly; most whites would not dare admit this among blacks. You are part of the link for progression. Abagond: Nice post.
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stalherz on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 16:20:27 For me, I grew up in Cali and had a very progressive education both inside and outside the classroom. Everything must start with the children. For adults, it is too late I think. Either they think one way or they dont. The kids though, these are the ones to be influenced. When I was young, artists like Chuck D, KRS-ONE, X Clan, RUN DMC all educated me on Black History. I knew many things, like Egyptians were black, from his second album. Funny that now, some 20 years later, National Geographic decides to do a cover story. The point is that artists such as those educated. Artists today perpetuate a stereotype. The Youth are the ones that can be made to understand.
Renee on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 18:00:17 The whole notion that someone is colorblind only supports the fact that racism is alive and well within our society. It is a complete denial of the way that race is social constructed and supported within our communities. What they mean to say is that I acknowledge that you are different but that I dont attach any weight to that difference. The problem is that people do attach meaning to difference. Even the most well meaning committed anti-racist well say and do things because of internalized racism.
stalherz on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 18:06:13 Time to move forward and stop spouting the same slogans over and over again. This is true. We know the crime. We know the injustice. Time for a new day.
john chichester on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 18:26:06 racism is kept alive in america by racists in politics, the media, and hollywood, the mediums by which most people base their idealogy, the way they think, on elected officials, publishers/editors/, producers/directors racism exists out of a fear of competition for survival, a threat to a persons livelihood, their survival, a fear which can be and often is exploited by persons in key positions in the fields listed above; we follow persons we think we know not realizing that that person has personalized their beliefs there is nothing on the Statue of Liberty that states except you.
indigoblu on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 20:33:18 Stal: It may or may not be too late for some adults. People can change, although it is less likely when it comes to adults. I dont think the cause should be given up, at any rate. Children are defiantly the way to go, but when you have parents instilling ideas of hatred in them from the time they can walk and talk. a long with the fact that the media only helps fuel some of these negative ways of thinking; its even institutionalized, its going to take more than the children to get through this seemingly ruthless situation.
stalherz on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 20:59:45 True. The parents on both sides of the problem are giving the kids bad roads to travel down.
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When I talk about reaching the children, I am speaking about how we, we being the group of young professionals now, target them with our messages. How we advertise to them. Programs we create for them. I dont think there are many parents who are open to having random folks tell them how to raise their children, so we have to create things for them to like much like, PE and the rest of the crew did back in the days. See what Im saying? Those Africa Medalains were pop culture products marketed by videos but they raised consciousness. We should be thinking of the same type of things. Creating magazines, comic books, tv shows, books, whatever industry you are in, try to push the proper culture on kids. Know what I mean? Like that new Pixar Movie WALL E ? That is pushing eco friendly thinking on KIDS through entertainment. I bet tons of kids who watch that will grow up wanting to help save the earth. We can do the same with race relations. Push forward. PUSH!!!
W.B. Reeves on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 21:15:19 A very good post in so far as it goes. As always though, there is only so much that can be descerned by looking in from the outside. (A lesson that Maybeyouonlyseewhatyouwanttosee would do well to learn.) When youre on the receiving end of racism, its practical contours are clearly discernable because they impact directly and daily on ones life. It seems a simple proposition. One side of the divide garners the advantages so they choose strategies that allow them to maintain their privileges. I think this misapprehends the mass psychology of whiteness. The chief characteristic of this psychology isnt racial consciousness but unconsciousness. I specify mass because it is indisputable that some white folks are consciously racist , notably those who profit from manipulating the unspoken and unacknowleged anxieties rife among the majority of those classified as white. To get an idea of what Im getting at, take a second look at MYOSWYWSs comment. Its obvious to anyone familiar with the history of white racism as a systemic problem in US history that her whole take on the question is nonsensical bordering on the delusional. So is she lying, or just nuts? Id say neither. Whats being reflected here is the fact that when most white folks use the term racism, they attach a fundamentally different meaning to the word than do folks on the recieving end. Folks like MYOSWYWS think of racism as an individual moral or intellectual failing rather than a systemic social, cultural and institutional disease which, of necessity, impacts the individual. You can see this in MYOSWYWSs assertion that even talking about white folks as a category is the epitome of racism. For this to be true one would have to locate racism entirely within the individual psychology rather than in externals. Underlining the absurdity of this premise, MYOSWYWS goes on to engage in precisely the sort of behavior she herself has described as racist when she presumes to speak for white people as a whole. She assures us that white people dont think about race at all but just see people as
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people. If conceptualizing white people as a category is the epitome of racism, then MYOSWYWS, by her own definition, is indulging in racism. Or perhaps MYOSWYWS only considers it racism when African Americans do this. In which case she is conceptualizing African Americans as a racial category and, again by her own standards, behaving in a racist manner. I think it is clear that MYOSWYWS is completely unconcious of the logic of her position, otherwise she would never have made an argument so transparent and revealing. The psychological concept of projection would seem to apply here. So why does it matter whether white folks are operating from conscious self interest (maintaining privilege) or from unconscious assumptions? Id say that these are distinct motivations and thus require distinct strategies for combating them. The first is a rational motive, the second, being unconscious, is fundamentally irrational and emotional, untethered from material self interest. Consequently, the latter spans the social spectrum of the white community, from the richest to the poorest, from the powerful to the impotent. It preceeds from a psychological state of whiteness rather than material circumstance. As such, it is far less likely to be tractable to arguments proceeding on the basis of relative social privilege. Indeed, such arguments may only re-inforce such subconscious tropes, since there are plenty of white folks who can point to their own economic and social status as being distinctly unprivileged.
indigoblu on Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 21:50:05 Stal: Maybe more people will incorporate some of the things you have stated and push forward. I am very happy for your enthusiasm
stalherz on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 01:44:53 We must continue to fight for forward thinking. If not, what are we? Just a bunch of folks who talk about whats wrong. How is that going to change things. Solutions my friends. Focus on the solutions.
abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 04:16:23 Wow! So many great comments! I especially liked Maybes (it was so bad it was good) and what W.B. Reeves said about the psychology of whiteness.
abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 04:26:54 Stal: Very good point about Chuck D and so on. Now instead of Chuck D we have 50 Cent! Black music is being used to poison the minds of white people instead of opening their eyes.
abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 04:38:32 Nan: good point about oblique language, where whites talk in code instead of just straight out saying black like blacks do.
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abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 04:41:56 Blanc2: When I wrote uncomfortable in the post it brought to mind that comment of yours about how PC types have got everyone to stop talking. Through the magic of Google I found it under my post about Nella Larsens Passing: Liberal PC culture forced any expression of these sentiments out of favor, and liberal PC legislation made expression of these sentiments in some contexts illegal. Thus, it was force it into the DL, where it can fester and perpetuate in secret, like mold growing behind the faade of a house. More here: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/passing/#comment-10073
abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 04:50:24 W.B. Reeves (or anyone who knows): is there anything online about the psychology of whiteness. I would love to do a post on it.
stalherz on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 10:29:51 Dont you think it is poisoning the minds of all people, not just whites as it is getting black youth to act out a stereotype?
indigoblu on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 16:40:57 I concur; I think it is poison to anyone but it is most lethal to young black minds. BET should just be called ET. I can think of much more entertaining things, as a black person.
abagond Yes, it poisons everyones thinking.
on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 19:42:26
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roger on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 22:12:42 The whole notion that someone is colorblind only supports the fact that racism is alive and well within our society. i wonder if you would explain yourself here. to me it appears that you are saying that the act of being racially colorblind is itself racist. additionally i read over at alas a blog that a white person is categorically racist as a function of being white alone and cannot ever overcome racism all efforts notwithstanding. the term white flight refers to whites leaving violent and hostile neighborhoods in hope of securing safety and comfort and yet there are many who simply assume that the motivation is to segregate oneself from the black race. are you willing to allow that human beings have a natural inclination to safety and comfort. i also read that whites cannot ever recognize their internalized racism. a white person will be held accountable for all racist actions of all whites who came before. whites will be accused of all manner of abuse and indifference and only instruction by enlightened nonwhites will offer any hope for whites to be cured of this unconscious racism. tell me again why any white person would enter into such a discussion.
abagond Renee can explain what she means.
on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 23:20:34
My own position is that most white Americans are racist so are most blacks. Racism is still just too much a part of what America is. It is hard to avoid. Most white Americans are blind to their racism. That makes it hard for them to change. Most whites, I think, can become far less racist than they are.
abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 23:20:41 Blacks move out of neighbourhoods too because they are too dangerous. But whites will move out simply because blacks are moving in, not because crime is in fact increasing. After the number of blacks in a neighbourhood gets above like 10%, more whites will start moving out than will move in and so the whole neighbourhood tips and becomes black. In time only the old people are white. I have lived a good part of my life in neighbourhoods like that. They are not violent or drug-ridden like whites think. Whites left or do not come back simply because they are racist.
roger Whites left or do not move in simply because they are racist. you make such universal statements.
on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 23:33:52
blacks crave white women simply because they are dissatisfied with black women. i have as much casual and superficial justification for making such a horrifying indictment as you do in making the first statement.
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abagond on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 23:53:17 I do tend to make statements that are too absolute, especially when I am trying to make a point. Even so what I said is still the truth for the most part: most whites do not want to live in neighbourhoods that are too black because they are racist.
nonserviam on Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 23:57:08 Could somebody kindly define racism for the purposes of this discussion? Thank you.
abagond on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:00:19 A racist is someone who looks down on others because they belong to a different race. Or, to put it the other way, they think they are better than others because of their race.
abagond on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:01:57 Just to tell you, the vibe I am getting from both of you (I hope it is a wrong one) is that you are not serious about understanding anything about racism you are just interested in denying that it is a serious and important thing in America.
nonserviam on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:04:21 Then the proposition that most whites are racist (and simultaneously blind to it) is absurd on its face.
abagond on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:05:29 On its face,yes, but that was the whole point of the post that they are racist but hide it from themselves because they have been taught that it is wrong.
abagond on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:07:43 A good example is what Joe Biden said about Obama being articulate and well-dressed. It was racist but he did not see that when it came out his mouth. The same with Don Imus.
abagond Or this, which plenty of white people say:
on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:08:44
I am not racist but I just think that whites and blacks should not marry. You know, because of the children. They do not see that it is a racist statement, but it is. Whites makes statements like that all the time.
abagond My racism test has more examples and explains why they are racist: Racism Vision Test http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/racism-vision-test/
on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:10:31
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nonserviam on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:21:19 A mere preference for ones own kind is racist? Notice that it doesnt have to imply a value judgement, merely an acknowlegement of differences. For the record, I dont oppose interracial marriage, and I certainly would be against any legislated restrictions thereon. But I do think that blacks and whites are sufficiently different (as groups) that it is not destined to become a mass phenomenon. We are naturally inclined to seek the company of people like ourselves. Whites, probably to a greater extent than any other race, have re-defined like ourselves to strip it of any biological underpinnings. So, if a black and white individuals should fall in love and marry, then they will have turned out to have enough in common. More happiness to them which is too rare a commodity to let racial considerations stand in the way.
nonserviam on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:39:52 you are just interested in denying that it is a serious and important thing in America A counter-proposition would be to wonder why anyone (not pointing fingers) would be interested in creating a perception of rampant racism where there is, in fact, none to speak of. (An answer: because claiming the victim status has become a power play. Even the wildly sucessful by any conceivable definition East Asians are trying to get in on the game lately.)
abagond on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 00:46:00 nonserviam: I have to split. I will address your last three comments later on. But in the meantime read this: Whites are still racist http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/whites-are-still-racist/
indigoblu on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 01:20:35 nonseriam: Not all people, who act white, so to speak, and are white, are law industrious, law-abiding, have respect for intellectual achievement, and on the flip side, not all people who do not act white and are not white are not industrious, law-abiding, have respect for intellectual achievement etc. By you making this assumption that acting white means industriousness, law-abidingness, respect for intellectual achievement etc.you , like *maybeyouseeonlywhatyouwanttosee just validated what Abagond has said as well. This is why I have a problem with acting white/blackthey are both only stereotypes and can not and does not apply to an entire group of people.
nonserviam OK, what does acting white mean?
on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 02:10:07
indigoblu
on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 02:29:22
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As I just stated, it is a stereotype and only exist in theory of whoever believes it. Of course, this is just how I feel about it; I cant speak for others. In Racism Vision Test ( http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/racism-vision-test/ ), which is where I actually meant to post the previous comment but didnt because I had so many windows open, lol, I said: I am still not sure exactly how one successfully acts black or white. Maybe it is a technique that has to be mastered? We all have tendencies and different mannerisms; however, it all varies, especially in black people.
stalherz on Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 03:47:21 I would have to agree that White people, in general think Black neighborhoods are dangerous and dont want to live there. I live in Harlem and work downtown. When I tell people where I live, their first reaction is Oh, is it, you know, dangerous? Not all, but most. It is a sad, sad truth that white people always assume areas where minorities live are dangerous. I used to go down to 5th Street Dicks when I lived in Los Angeles. The area was in Crenshaw and when I told people where to go for the best Jazz in the city, their reaction was the same. Again, not all, but a good majority. It is true. Lets try to change the perception. It is, after all, up to us. Dont try to intellectualize this discussion. To say America is not racist is just wrong. We were built on slave labor. Now, lets acknowledge and move towards a solution. What I think is funny is that, if we go anywhere in the world, and tell them we are Americans, well all get the same look of shame. -Stal
W.B. Reeves on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 03:51:18 the term white flight refers to whites leaving violent and hostile neighborhoods in hope of securing safety and comfort and yet there are many who simply assume that the motivation is to segregate oneself from the black race Bogus nonsense and easily revealed as such by the actual history of white flight. White flight occured for a complex of reasons rooted in both institutional and subjective racism. Unless you want to argue that white neighborhoods became cesspools of crime and violence immediately upon the arrival of the first black family to move in, this theory cant explain why whole blocks of white homeowners immediately put their homes on the market. A mere preference for ones own kind is racist? Notice that it doesnt have to imply a value judgement, merely an acknowlegement of differences. Actually, the entire premise is faulty. What is meant by ones own kind? If youre refering to white
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people, that is an utterly contrived and artificial category. Whiteness as a social and racial distinction has been expanded over time to incorporate whole populations previously excluded. Among these are the Irish, Italians, Greeks, Armenians, Albanians, Slavs, Jews, etc. I once asked a Klansman from the deep South who he had more in common with, a black guy from his hometown or a Klansman from Connecticutt. After much hemming and hawing he admitted that he had much more in common with his black neighbor. The is no singular white people in anything other than a purely ideological sense. Rather, there is a population derived from European antecedents subdivided along cultural and ethnographic lines. The whole notion of a single white race is itself an expression of white supremacist ideology. One aspect of acting white is accepting white supremacist premises without recognizing them as such. We are naturally inclined to seek the company of people like ourselves. Really? It would follow then that the natural society is one sharply divided along cultural and ethographic lines including, of course, those which divide the european derived population. The actuality is that such distinctions amongst European Americans have steadily lost ground to the process of amalgamation. Why is this argument only applicable when it becomes a question of skin color? Do you really attach such importance to pigment? W.B. Reeves (or anyone who knows): is there anything online about the psychology of whiteness. I would love to do a post on it. I wish I could but the ideas Ive expressed are based on my own observation and analysis from years of experience in anti-racist activism. If you like some background on that experience you can check out some articles Ive posted at: http://wbreevesrite.blogspot.com
W.B. Reeves Ps, Youll need to go into the archives for the pertinent articles
on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 03:57:29
abagond on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 17:37:47 W.B. Reeves: Oh, beautiful! You have a blog! What great news. Your comments have been among the best I have seen.
abagond on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 17:43:31 To Stals point and my own about black neighbourhoods: some are truly dangerous, but many are not. Many white people seem to think that all black neighbourhoods are dangerous and are ten times more dangerous than any of them are. I have lived in neighbourhoods that whites have fled. They were not fleeing crime but their own fear of black people.
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abagond nonserviam: W.B. Reeves answered #42 better than I could have.
on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 17:49:58
abagond on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 17:56:00 nonserviam: more East Asian Americans live in poverty than whites. But, like poor whites and middle-class blacks, they almost never make it on television.
abagond on Sat 5 Jul 2008 at 18:04:29 nonserviam: you said maybe I am making all this up about racism just to play victim as a power play. It is possible that blacks are just imagining racism, like some mass delusion. I grant that. But to me it seems far more probable, and therefore far more likely to be true, that whites are in fact racist but do not want to admit it for all the reasons I said in this post and then some (added by W.B. Reeves). And, trusting my own two (possibly deluded) eyes, that is what seems to be going on in fact. Not wanting to admit guilt is far commoner in human affairs than mass delusion.
roger on Mon 7 Jul 2008 at 13:45:37 Even so what I said is still the truth for the most part: most whites do not want to live in neighbourhoods that are too black because they are racist. i would be inclined to say that most whites are interested in self preservation and security. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/12/brutal-baltimore-bus-beatdown.html She was immediately attacked by nine students three females and six males from Robert Poole Middle School. They punched and kicked her at 2:59 p.m. at the intersection of 33rd Street and Chestnut Avenue, according to Maryland Transit Administration police. She had eye muscles that were damaged, a police report states. She had deep lacerations on the top of her head and another above her neck. now at least one of two things happened just now. either i am attempting to justify my latent racism or i am providing a concrete example of the reason why whites would avoid black communities in general. perhaps we could decide whether there are legitimate reasons that whites would avoid black communities and these reasons would stem from considerations separate from institutionalized racism. ..or perhaps im not being serious about understanding anything about racism.
nonserviam on Mon 7 Jul 2008 at 18:10:14 The actuality is that such distinctions amongst European Americans have steadily lost ground to the
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process of amalgamation. Which proves the material reality of the white race. Some differences have proven to be fatuous and rooted in little more than bigotry, while others appear to be enduring and resistant to all kinds of social engineering and cultural indoctrination. Your recipe is hysterical denial, mine is honest acknowledgement.
nonserviam on Mon 7 Jul 2008 at 19:30:33 The whole notion of a single white race is itself an expression of white supremacist ideology. One aspect of acting white is accepting white supremacist premises without recognizing them as such. As Im not interested in winning the argument on your terms, Ill raise you one more: not only is the white race a tangible reality, it is also the material basis of what is known as the Western civilization. A culturally confident white majority is a necessary (although, obviously, not sufficient) factor in the Western civilizational continuity.
abagond on Mon 7 Jul 2008 at 19:31:51 I so completely and utterly disagree with that, but I am at work and my boss does not pay me to disagree about the nature of Western civilization.
nonserviam on Mon 7 Jul 2008 at 21:08:12 The above doesnt mean that individuals of other ethnic and racial backgrounds are not assimilable into the Western civilization, of course. But the key word here is individuals. A thing about racial differences that makes them so difficult for a well-meaning person to accept is that they manifest (or indeed, exist) primarily on the group i.e. statistically significant level. Numbers are of the essence, to quote a late sage.
abagond on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 07:40:10 I disagree: the West can and I think will be mainly black. Its whiteness is something Anglos see in it. It is not an essential part of what the West is. In Marco Polos time the West did not call itself the West or even Europe or see itself as white it was simply Christendom. Christianity, not skin colour or race, is what lies at the heart of the West. White Europe no longer take Christianity seriously and is shrinking. Quite unlike Africa, on both counts. That is where the future of the West lies. Not in our lifetime, of course, but over the long term.
abagond on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 08:10:21 Roger: that bus incident in Baltimore is rare. The police said so. To paint all blacks with it is unjust and racist. You are applying your own stereotypes about blacks to it.
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W.B. Reeves on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 10:47:39 As Im not interested in winning the argument on your terms, Ill raise you one more: not only is the white race a tangible reality, it is also the material basis of what is known as the Western civilization. A culturally confident white majority is a necessary (although, obviously, not sufficient) factor in the Western civilizational continuity. Of course youre not interested in winning the argument on my terms, because you cant. My terms, as you coyly put it, are to test ideas against historical realities. That is a test that white supremacist ideas have always failed. Your assertions about Western Civilizations need for a racial basis provide an apt illustration of this failure. The idea of a white race was absent from western civilization for the greater part of its history. It is an ideology of recent vintage which was constructed to support/excuse European Imperialism and the Atlantic slave trade. Even at its peak the doctrine of white supremacy never trumped the traditional racism with which the various European peoples regarded one another. That racism, you may recall, resulted in the bloodbath of WWII. Odd that this white race you imagine would turn its civilization into a vast, fratricidal, charnel house. This leaves aside the fact that there is not, nor has there ever been, a single, monolithic culture that could be described as Western Civilization. What that term actually describes is wide variety of European cultures that were influenced to varying degrees by fragmentary ideas and traditions surviving from the period of Roman hegemony. The character of this influence differs wildly depending on which European culture you examine. One need only compare the history of Britain to that of Russia to comprehend how little continuity, much less homogeneity, actually exists under the heading of Western Civilization. Not that I imagine you will pay heed to any of this. In my experience, racism is driven by deep, self-serving, psychological needs rather than reason.
Shining Whites have always been racist. No news
on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 14:52:00
Indigoblu Roger: This is what I am talking about.
on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 14:54:51
It is the idea that the act of a few blacks or people of other races, but especially blacks, or even one black individual compared to a similar, worse, or same act by a white individual (as hard as it may be for you to sallow that there are white rapist, serial killers, and pedophiles in high numbers)seems to be a reflection of the entire black race, but the same can not be said for the white race. If I told you I attended to school where Luck Woodham, who was the lone pioneer at a school shooting in MS, killed three people in the process in addition to killing his mother that because of this incident and others (and there are quite a few over the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_related_attacks) who were white have shot and/or attempted to blow up schools and innocent people, simply because they wanted to feel powerful or for revenge that defiantly wasnt worth anyones life that I view all white people in terms of
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this; what would you say? Fortunately, due to logic (all white people are not dangerous, just like all black people are not dangerous), I do not think in this way, but the same can not be said for people who make reference to abuse, murder, drugs, etc as if these things are just unique to people of color. Murder, rape, and abuse are common characteristics of America, not characteristics that people like to think or talk about, but it is very common to America, and it is not just one race of people contributing. Get real.
nonserviam on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 16:29:45 Your terms, W.B., is that the very notion of the white race is inherently, irredeemably, hateful. Obviously, I have no interest in winning an argument against an irrational hater.
nonserviam abagond #61:
on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 16:42:21
With all due respect, this is no more than wishful thinking. Theres no evidence to support this notion. In fact, virtually all the current evidence points in the opposite direction civilization disappears with the whites. Not in our lifetimes, you say. Perhaps. But I, for one, have no intention of going quietly into the night.
abagond indigoblu:
on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 19:14:53
Two of your comments they looked like the same comment twice got caught in my spam filter (too many links probably), I got trigger happy and delted them by accident!! I am so sorry!
indigoblu Aba:
on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 19:27:30
It is OK. I was wondering why it wasnt going through; I thought it was my computer since my post only has one link; thats why tried a few times. Thank for letting me know.
W.B. Reeves on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 19:52:00 Your terms, W.B., is that the very notion of the white race is inherently, irredeemably, hateful. Obviously, I have no interest in winning an argument against an irrational hater. I see that when you cannot argue effectively you resort to making things up. The fact is that the notion of a white race never existed prior to the need to justify the European conquest and enslavement of non-European peoples. You dont present a shred of contradicting evidence. You simply invent statements never made and positions never taken in order to play the victim. Its the intellectual equivilent of thumbsucking. With all due respect, this is no more than wishful thinking. Theres no evidence to support this notion.
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In fact, virtually all the current evidence points in the opposite direction civilization disappears with the whites Since civilization didnt begin with whites its childish to believe that it wouldnt survive without them. Current evidence, whatever you may mean by that, is an extremely foolish basis upon which to draw definitive conclusions about the nature of human civilization. In 600 CE contemporary evidence would have pointed to Europeans being incapable of maintaining a civilization above that of mere warlordism. In the 20th century, two continent wide fratricidal bloodbaths within 25 yeatrs would point to European incapacity as well. As predicted earlier, you proved incapable of engaging the factual argument. I dont imagine you will do any better this time.
nonserviam on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 20:02:49 Do other races exist, W.B.? Or is it only the white race that has no right to?
W.B. Reeves on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 20:46:51 Do other races exist, W.B.? Or is it only the white race that has no right to? Tell you what. When you can respond intelligently and on point to any of the factual objections I have raised, without distortion or invention on your part, Ill respond to this one. I will note though, that even here you appear inadequate to the task. I never said that the white race has no right to exist. I said it has no existence outside the realm of ideology. Try to get it right.
nonserviam on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 20:58:18 I am fully aware both of your words and of their implications. Subjecting reality to the demands of ideology (race-denialism, for lack of a better word) entails elimination of the inconvenient aspects of the former.
W.B. Reeves on Tue 8 Jul 2008 at 21:14:47 am fully aware both of your words and of their implications. Subjecting reality to the demands of ideology (race-denialism, for lack of a better word) entails elimination of the inconvenient aspects of the former. In other words, you have nothing. Except, of course, a pathetic need to agrandize yourself through the medium of pigment.
Climber on Tue 15 Jul 2008 at 16:34:23 Racism as I see it is a deep sprititual pathology that manisfests itself in a sickening need to view one self as better or superior and the other as inferior. The very structures/institutions created by Whites speaks volumes to their collective paranoia rooted in the bizarre belief that they are entitled to rule the world!
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abagond on Sat 19 Jul 2008 at 04:36:37 Talking to white people about racism is very much like talking to atheists about God. Their positions are based not on reason and fact but, like you and W.B. said, on a sickness of their souls.
john chichester on Wed 30 Jul 2008 at 14:31:04 lets discuss who are Americans Americans are not a single race, but are made up of many races, so can we begin to promote Americanism as an inclusive concept and not an exclusive concept and all of those government and private surveys that ask you to check which race you belong to only perpetuate separateness by race, all of us are racists, so lets help each other move on by calling to task every friend, relative, associate, and others who express racist sentiments and educate the ignorant to all the major contributions persons from all races have made to the betterment of life there are no racists on a battlefield, i guarantee you.
PTBW on Mon 27 Oct 2008 at 08:41:15 notice how blacks are talking about it being racist to want majority white things, but yet want 100% black things to stay even though they dont need them. Black Caucuses, Black Television even with highly diversified other television channels which are increasingly non white. You cant want full integration and then want segregation at the same time. also saying that explaining to white people about racism is like explaining religion to atheist is racist statement, black people make a lot of assumptions about us.
Kat ^^^^^^^
on Wed 29 Oct 2008 at 01:11:03
Yep, PTBW is another classic case of a person being blind to racism. He loves making assumptions about how black people think.
Kati White people DO receive racism, thank you very much.
on Tue 4 Nov 2008 at 03:21:46
Kat @Kati
on Tue 4 Nov 2008 at 03:28:35
Read the title It says: Why whites are blind to their their racism. Receiving so-called racism as you call it DOES NOT EXCUSE some white people from BEING racist. Another Classic Case of DEFLECTION.
bob on Fri 12 Dec 2008 at 00:22:31 there is racism still present today, but I think its getting loads better , and there are plenty more people working against it than for it. Im white (scottish, french, spanish, and portuguese) and in high
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school, and I can tell when someones being racist, im not blind to it, but i wasnt raised to be racist. To me looking at people differently because of skin color is just as retarded as basing it on eye color. i dont think ill ever be able to prove that to people who think im racist just because im white, and if i dont think so than that proves how racist i am.
john.tecumseh on Fri 12 Dec 2008 at 01:00:09 To even think in terms of Black and White regarding individual American citizens is racist: http://thekingsdream.blogspot.com/2008/10/why-call-anyone-black-or-white.html
Davida i have been gone for a while so I am catching up sickness of the soul is accurate -but not just for white culture. the sickness takes on all forms and it afflicts the human race.
on Fri 12 Dec 2008 at 10:34:18
I think we think about this to narrowly. Its not about black or white its about sin. do i suffer from this yes as does abagond and every poster to this blog. The symptoms present differently in each person..but the sickness is there. whites didnt invent racism. If we had a time travel machine and sent people back to african continent prior to any white man visitingyou would find tribal forms of racism slavery and horrible crimes. You would also find it in asia before the arrival of white men. The native indian of America was killing, butchering and taking as slaves other indians for 100s of yrs before the yellow haired devil stepped foot. The crimes of the white culture should not be negated but I dont think they are not the worstjust the best documented. See the deal is white culture wrote down what we didwe have recorded history to shame us over and over with. If a video camera was recorded what one african or indian or asian or whatever group of people did to another we would all be filled with horror. Its wrong, its evil and we must work to change it. But we can not fool ourselves into think its a white problem or a black problembecause its notis a human problem.
abagond on Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 00:56:20 It is a sin and it is not just America: The Japanese look down on the Koreans, the the Jews look down on the Arabs, in India there is the whole caste system and so on. It is a common evil, but it is still an evil. I am certainly not free of it.
abagond on Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 01:01:49 The terms black and white can be racist but they are not always racist. Sometimes not using them can be racist. It seems that some whites avoid the word black as if being black were something shameful. That is more profoundly racist than simply calling someone black as a description, like how you would use the word blonde or thin. The same goes for dividing people into black and white in your mind. Sometimes it is racist, sometimes not.
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I will probably post on this soon. If I do, I will put a link to it here in this comment.
Davida on Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 16:49:49 So if one is using it a a discription that good looking blonde women or that sweet black man in accounting its not racistbut if you pre judge the person based on skin color or attach a specific set of predetermined assumption because of skin color then it is racist.
abagond on Mon 15 Dec 2008 at 06:07:36 Yes, roughly speaking. However even as description it can sometimes come off as racist if racist assumptions seem to underlie it. For example, one time I was on a tour bus waiting for everyone to show up. When only two people were left a white woman told us who was still missing: A lady and a black man. Why tell us the mans race if you did not tell us the womans race? It is less in what you say than in how you seem to think of it. Sometimes it seems like white people think that racism comes down to saying the right words. Some of them say the right words, sure, but it is still clear that they are racist. It comes off as phoney. As someone (maybe you) pointed out, those who are openly racist are easier to take sometimes because you know where they stand.
Kat on Mon 15 Dec 2008 at 17:52:22 When only two people were left a white woman told us who was still missing: A lady and a black man. Why tell us the mans race if you did not tell us the womans race? ************ White is seen as the default unless said otherwise. I have to say that if she did not say the mans race, I myself might have assumed it was a white man missing. Though in this case, stating someones race did not seem quite relevant for the woman to mention out of thin air.
john.tecumseh on Tue 23 Dec 2008 at 02:57:07 A mind that is programmed to stereotype people based on skin color alone with the use of simplistic terms such as White or Black is a mind infected with racism. When I was a child I discovered in the movies that people like me were called redskins. When I asked my dad if I was a redskin, he told me that I was a full blooded American. He told me all Americans were mixed. He said there are no pure bloods in America. He was a very wise man and helped to set me free of racism early on. To consider other people mixed, however, will not fit in the racialist mindset. People have to be pure Black, White, Red, Brown or Yellow in order for the racist mind to categorize others effectively. It confuses a racist mindset to realize that people are all mixed up racially.
abagond on Fri 26 Dec 2008 at 18:09:48 One the cheaper ways the American government could help to bring down the level of racism in the country is to pay people to take DNA ancestry tests. For one thing millions of white people would find
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out they are part black something they do not know because of family lies.
john.tecumseh on Sat 27 Dec 2008 at 16:39:06 and most people who call themselves Black are part so called White. If people who call themselves Black would understand this, then perhaps there would be less Black racialism.
Kat @John Tecumseh
on Sat 27 Dec 2008 at 17:32:09
Many self-identified black people understand that there is some Euro dna in their blood but what do you mean by there would be less black racialism?
Davida John tecumseh
on Sat 27 Dec 2008 at 23:12:51
I am begining the long process of writing a fictional story. Part of what will make up my characters motivation is her dealing with being biracialwhite and indian. Since I only have my great grandmother stories (My great great grandmother was Taos Indian) told when I was very young I dont really know what is like to deal with being a minority. I am white have always been white and there fore my life experience would not enable me to understand the struggles and issues my charcter would encounter. I welcome any kind of input or resources that I can use for research into growing up half white and half indian (or is it native americanindeginous american..my pc public school upbringing leaves me unsure of what is the appropriate phrase currently)
abagond John Tecumseh:
on Sun 28 Dec 2008 at 04:04:34
I agree with Kat: most blacks are part white and know it. And since at least some part of that whiteness comes from rapes by slavemasters, knowing it and thinking about it will not lessen racism. The white race in America is based on purity, the black race is not. You can be 90% European and still not be accepted by whites as a white person, but you can be 10% African and still be accepted as black.
john.tecumseh on Sun 28 Dec 2008 at 16:19:08 Kat, Dr. King showed us all the way to total social integration in America. He did not use the term Black to denote people with African ancestry. He did not think ancestry or skin color should divide us as individual American citizens. http://www.thekingsdream.blogspot.com /2008/10/what-was-kings-dream.html Dr. Kings dream for total social integration was betrayed by people like James Cone and Dwight Hopkins and the unReverend Wright who began the Black movement in 1966. The Black Power and
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Black Liberation Theology movement helped to divide and polarize rather than integrate. The so called black Community sets itself apart from mainstream American society rather than to bring us together as one American Community. Today when a person who considers themselves to be Black says Brother of Sister, they do not mean to include all Gods people, but to designate only so called Black people. http://www.thekingsdream.blogspot.com/2008/10/black-liberation-theology-wouldhave.html People who consider themselves to be Black are racialists. They think and act based on race. Most are obsessed with racial distinctions and categorize and sterotype other people based entirely on the shade of their skins. A light skinned person is White and therefore guilty of White crimes automatically. A person who considers themselves Black would consider me White because I am not dark enough for them when, actually, I am so called native American. Even though my ancestors befriended Africans in the past, now Black racialists stereotype me as the White enemy based on my skin shade alone. This is racism pure and simple. Davida, my dad was Shawnee and my mother was German. I grew up on the boundary line between the poor white and black sections of my city. I have experience racialism from both dark and light skinned people. Actually over the past 30 years, since the death of Dr. King, I have found that people with light skin, that were segregationists based on skin color, have demised greatly with the vast majority of so called white people embracing Dr. Kings dream of total social integration. On the other hand, I have found that an increasing number of people who consider themselves to be black are the now the social segregationists and racialists. If we could throw all the dark skinned and light skinned racialists in a hole, we could not tell them apart other than the shade of their skin, and even this would not really distinguish who would be considered White or Black. Mentally, they are all the same. As a writer myself, I suggest you search within yourself to express your attitudes honestly and your experience honestly. Life is a challenge and test for all individuals. To stereotype based on race alone is truly fiction, or even perhaps, a lie. Ask yourself, does being biracial automatically mean a person will be unable to become President in America? Perhaps you might use our new President as a model. abagond, it must satisfy your racialist mindset to think that the so called White dna in yourself occurred because a White man raped a Black woman. Perhaps you are part White because a Black man raped a White woman. Or, God forbid, a dark skinned person was attracted, or even loved, a light skinned person and had a love child as your ancestor. Personally, I think we all should come together and breed ourselves into one people all full blooded Americans. It is also obvious that you do not know that only 3% of so called White Americans were slave owners, and that one of the first slave owners in America was African or that the largest percentage of Slave owners were African in proportion to the population, at the time of the Civil War, than non African people. Perhaps you should read about the large number of African slave owners in New Orleans at the time of the Civil War, and how brutal many Black slave owners were to their Black Brothers. Likely you are filled with myth and ignorance of factual history regarding slavery in America and the world. Let me know if you need some reference to the truth. Perhaps the truth will set you free to become an individual American citizen unencumbered with racism.
Davida on Sun 28 Dec 2008 at 23:19:18 abagond said You can be 90% European and still not be accepted by whites as a white person, but you can be 10% African and still be accepted as black.
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I have to disagree I have people tell me my niece and nephew and my bro in law are not black enough to be called black all the timedarker skinned people. I dont call them black or white or whateverI call them people I love. John My charcter would be a women raised by her father (scottish). Never knowing her mother or her mothers people she goes in search of her roots. The conflict is when you appear to be an outsider to your mothers peopleto white to be be let in or trusted but knowing that the basic suburn life you were raised in does not completely define you. Something is missing. She does not belong in either world.
abagond john tecumseh, you said:
on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 00:20:17
the largest percentage of Slave owners were African in proportion to the population, at the time of the Civil War, than non African people. I doubt I understand this because on the face of it it seems to be wildly untrue, at least in the United States in 1860. I know something about New Orleans and what you are saying, but that was a French society till after the civil war, so I would not draw any conclusions about Anglo America based on it.
abagond on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 00:26:43 Davida: in my 90%/10% passage I was careful to say can be because I know it is not as simple as mere percentages. You can be 25% black, for example, and still pass for white. It depends on how you look. It also depends on how you were brought up. If you were brought up completely by the white side of your family and act white, that will affect how people see you too, especially if you look racially ambiguous. It is possible to get stuck in the middle that way be too black for whites and too white for blacks.
abagond john tecumseh: yes, please provide references.
on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 00:27:25
abagond john tecumseh said,
on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 00:31:56
As a writer myself, I suggest you search within yourself to express your attitudes honestly and your experience honestly. That is extremely good advice. Or, rather, it is the only advice. Good writing comes from writing the truth honestly, even if it seems to take the form of a fiction.
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Kat on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 00:35:13 People who consider themselves to be Black are racialists. They think and act based on race. Most are obsessed with racial distinctions and categorize and sterotype other people based entirely on the shade of their skins. ********** I really disagree with you on this statement. I guess Jim Crow, eugenics, the Tuskegee medical experimentation, lynchings, sitting in the back of bus, having white only signs, and present residential, economic disparities are all in my imagination then.
abagond on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 00:39:43 Again, I have to agree with Kat. Her examples are from before King, but blacks still experience plenty of racism, enough to know that it is more than just a few bad apples who fail to accept Kings vision for America. So much so that some blacks wonder if it is wise to ever fully trust any white person. Black is not a choice, not for most Americans with visible sub-Saharan ancestry. The reason blacks are so obsessed by race is because, unlike with whites, it shapes their lives in ways that are beyond their control and quite against their wishes.
john.tecumseh on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 01:05:16 A person with so called White and Black parents should be considered neither Black nor White racially. They should simply be Americans that transcend race and represent successful social integration in America. While I voted for President-elect Obama, my heart was broken when I found that he identified with his African heritage alone and considered himself Black. Even worse for me was to discover that he attended a church that disparaged light skinned people in a racist manner. I still feel he is as much an offspring of his mothers racial heritage as he is his fathers. I disagree with abagond, as well, in that Obamas election shows that a majority of Americans are not influenced by racial designation. I read that many people who consider themselves to be Black did not feel Mr. Obama was raised as a Black person and was not dark skinned enough to be considered Black. Perhaps this is why he attended an anti-White racist church. The statement of your plot for the story is very intriguing and most appropriate for the racially sensitive environment in America today. When I dated a wonderful and lovely girl of African heritage years ago, her mother and grandmother were obviously unhappy that we were dating. Her mothers beauty shop was next to a store front housing people who called themselves Black Muslims. They threatened me in front of Janelle one day when I picked her up from her mothers shop. Worse, when I attended her Church, I was taken aside and advised not to come back by two young men in the congregation. They were smiling as they warned me not to return. As much as I cared for her, it was not worth the hostility I experienced. I would very much enjoy reading your story when finished. Few light skinned people today really know about or realize the depth of racism in the so called Black community. Your story will not only be very interesting, but also enlightening for all people. Unless we address Black racism and shine the light of truth on the subject, we will never overcome this racial divide in America. Sounds like your story will examine this subject in a manner not usually considered by most Americans.|
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I will address the comments of Kat and abagond following.
Davida on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 01:19:33 As a writer myself, I suggest you search within yourself to express your attitudes honestly and your experience honestly. That is extremely good advice. Or, rather, it is the only advice. Good writing comes from writing the truth honestly, even if it seems to take the form of a fiction I can guess at what its like to be a women caught between to culturesbut unless I base it on other peoples experiencescan not possibly be accurate. Just like anyone writing on the victorian era or medevil times even when writing a fictional story must do research. I can be true and honest to my research but I cant write from experience. I can honestly write about my life experience but thats not the story I want to write. I must speak to people who have lived in this grey area to understand it. I need to speak to a person living with in the two culturesor outside of both or rejecting one but not the other. Do they reject one culture because of their appearance, because the other cultures accepts them more readily. If they appear scottish but its like wearing a jacket thats to smalldoesnt fitdo they fight for acceptance in the indian culturehow can they be accepted when their skin marks them as an outsider untrustworthy. Everyone is racist. Its not just what we are taught by the ruling culture (white in this instance) but what our life teaches us. Took me a long time to get over being beaten by three black girls and having my nose broken and kicked in the head, stomch and ribs repeatedly all because I was dating a black guy. I didnt choose to date him because he was blackrace wasnt an issue. But to themit was. For several years, when approached by a black girl, I would be fearful and he was the last black guy I dated (even if Black men flirted with me) And that wasnt my racism it was theirs. Its no longer an issue from me and have friends of all racesplus getting married at 19 took my out of the dating game pretty early (btw married 12 years today YAY).
john.tecumseh on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 01:36:06 (abagond, heres a start for reference. This is a reprint from http://www.blackmisconception.blogspot.com/2008/12/africans-and-arabs-started-slavery-in.html) Slavery in Africa has an ancient history and is practiced there today. When the trading ships arrived at the African shores, it was the Africans and Arabs that offered their human brothers in trade. Often one tribe would defeat another tribe and trade the defeated people in the African trading centers for goods. The first trading ships to arrive at Jamestown in the 1600s had to sell the Africans on board as Indentured Servants since slavery was not practiced at that time in the colonies. One of the African indentured servants earned their freedom and became a slave owner himself. [Quote:] In 1619 Virginia had no law of slavery and the arrivals became servants. They went to work in tobacco fields alongside other servants who were white and had come from England. Conditions were equally hard for both groups, but servitude could end. Early Virginia blacks gained
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their freedom and a few actually prospered. One, named Anthony Johnson . . . arrived at Jamestown in 1621, survived his own time of servitude, married, and acquired land and indentured servants. [1] While slavery continues in Africa today, slavery was so objectionable in American that it was finally abolished in 1865 after an anguishing civil struggle. Slavery is acceptable to Arabic and African cultures but is not acceptable to Western culture. Even at the outbreak of the Civil War, less that 3% of Americans owned slaves, and of these slave owners, many were Africans. A larger percentage of Africans were slave owners at the time of the Civil war in proportion to the overall number of Africans in America than European Americans. [Quote:] In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states. The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves). According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The countrys leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city. .These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more. [2] [ 1 ] http://www.bedfordstmartins.com/history/series/hw/slavery/slaveryintro.htm [ 2 ] http://www.antzinpantz.com/kns/?p=989>http://antzinpantz.com/kns/?p=989
abagond Thanks. Give me more when you get a chance.
on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 02:14:07
john.tecumseh on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 02:47:24 Kat (comment 102) If we go back far enough it can be said that we should give America back to the relatives of the indigenous people who were slaughtered and encamped. People have mistreated one another since the beginning of humankind. Is this a reason, however, to hold a newborn baby guilty for the past just because they have light skin or dark skin. In America we do not hold the newborn responsible for the crimes of ancestors. If this is the case we would have to go back to the very beginning and reconcile. Keep in mind that 500,000 light skinned people died in the Civil war because Americans do not believe in slavery. Also remember that Dr. King did not stand alone in demanding equality for all people. Holding a grudge against some ignorant people and ignoring progress is fruitless. If you will stop stereotyping people you will find that many dark skinned people are wealthy and prosperous. When we consider people as individuals rather than stereotypes, we can see the wonder of America and the potential each individual has as a citizen. abagond (comment 103) It is more a matter of attitude than actuality. As is often the case, we have a
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major misunderstanding on both sides of the issue. Most of all, there is no such thing as a typical White personlight skinned people are diverse individuals with no real unifying factors. Most, however, feel that dark skinned people do not object when dark skinned people harm light skinned people, yet most light and dark skinned people feel deeply that it is wrong for anyone to harm another. Perhaps this is why America is one of the most lawful countries in the world. Today there is, however, far more Black on Black and Black on White violent crime than White on White or White on Black violent crime. This fact alone has great influence on the attitude of the light skinned individual toward the dark skinned person. Davida (Comment 105) I stand corrected in my statement about writing from personal experience alone. Good research and consideration can and has lead to great fiction. Your statements convince me that you will learn before you write. It is just as good to be objective as subjective. congratulations on your anniversary. To all: As an integrationists, I believe in individual liberty and oppose any form of racialism. I oppose hatred and blame for past grievances. As we move forward as Americans, to meet the challenges we face in the world, we need to stand together as one people. I still believe in Dr. Kings dream. Light skinned children and dark skinned children should not be taught any form of division. We should all be free to socialize, date, marry and have children that are not racial in identify. If me can stop blaming each other and accept that we are all children of the same creating source, we can move forward together to enjoy the full benefits of individual potential and liberty in America. If we do not, I fear, we will polarize into racial tribes that are at war with one another in one way or another. I rejected tribalism as an individual myself long ago. When native peoples owned this land, it was our fighting and division among ourselves that caused us to lose our homeland. Must we repeat that loss in this age?
Kat on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 04:38:04 John said: you will find that many dark skinned people are wealthy and prosperous ********** Showing a few black rich people does not ignore the millions of people who suffer and continue to face economic disparities in this country. It would be like me to say just because a few Native Americans have casinos then all Native Americans must be rich and unfortunately, thats not true. John said:Holding a grudge against some ignorant people and ignoring progress is fruitless. ************ No one is holding a grudge but I am not about to forget my past and ignore what I see every day where I live. Indigenous peoples are also suffering today as well and I would never tell people like the The Sioux to get over Battle of Wounded Knee since it clearly impacted their present circumstances. See Abas post on The Sioux. Based on your posts, I know you want some kind of racial harmony which is great but acknowledging progress does not mean we should forget the past nor ignore the work that still has to be done.
Davida
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John if you read my comment 84 I agree with your comment to Kat in 102. I called it a sickness of the soul that has infected the human race long before the individual races ever layed eyes on one another. I have much more to say but my three sons are fooling around down stairs (instead of sleeping) and mama bear must go down and lay down the law.
savas on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 14:24:38 good article, very trueI hate the it was 200 years ago get over it type responsesso a child who was sexually abused should get over it the same way? lol, not so easy my friends
john.tecumseh on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 16:13:41 Ok Kat and Savas, lets see if you truly believe in what you say. I have dealt with your type of thinking all my life. The people who were in what is now call America before your ancestors came are amused at the example so called Black people give as grievances. Frankly your grievances pale in comparison to the genocide perpetrated on the indigenous people who were murdered by the immigrants from beyond the ocean. And yes, there were dark skinned African soldiers involved in the massacre. The Cheyenne called them Buffalo Soldiers. The 10th Cavalry Regiment was instrumental in murdering large numbers of women and children. There were six regiments of African troops involved in the genocide. You do not want to read about the authorities of murder of women and children, the rape of children, and pillage of defenseless people perpetrated by your African ancestors (often in the morning while they ware sleeping). To add to the insult, today there is a memorial to the Buffalo Soldiers who participated in the slaughter. It is a matter of Black pride! You can read some about your evil hero ancestors at: http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Buffalo_soldiers. But to really get the actual picture you might research what the Cheyenne history says about your brutal, evil ancestors. If you would like for me to elaborate further about the evil that took my ancestors homeland, I will be glad to give you some examples of the authorities that wiped out the native peoples. It would be like immigrants killing most of the native African people today and taking their land in Africa, putting them on reservations and completely destroying their culture. How would you feel if the same thing happened in Africa today? Do you think Africa belongs to the native people today, or is ownership open to anyone that can annihilate them? My ancestors tried in every way to first co exist, then negotiate treaties, and then finally to fight for our homeland. Today there are many signed treaties that were broken and still ignored by the American government. When your ancestors arrived on this land there were over 75 tribes east of the Mississippi river and over 100 tribes west of the Mississippi. The Iroquois, Erie, Illinois, Shawnee, Cherokee, Creek, Ottawa, Huron, Seneca, Tuscarora, Pamlico, Seminole, Ojibwa, Sioux, Crow, Cheyenne, Ute, Shoshone, Comanche, Apache, and Cree, just to name a few tribes, have broken treaties with the American government. There was not one foot of this land that was not owned and loved by native peoples in the same way Africa is owned and loved today by their native people. My relatives, and so called Native-American cousins feel it is only fair for you and all the ancestors of the evil murderers to return to your accessorial homeland. At least to honor the signed treaties by the American government, which would return all the land west of the Mississippi river to the rightful owners; and large segments to the land east of the Mississippi to the Shawnee, Cherokee, Iroquois, Erie, Illinois, Seminole, Tuscarora. You immigrants would have to live on small reservations as was
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agreed in the signed treaties. It was evil and criminal to take the land in the murderous manner if was taken. It is time to give it back to the rightful owners. So Kat and Savas, should all these atrocities be forgotten, or forgiven, or ignored? Are you ready to return to your accessorial homeland and are you ready to ask forgiveness for your African soldier ancestors that killed, raped, and stole from the native people? Will you stand by your previous statements of deserved retribution? Just what do you have to say about this? Are you packing your bags in shame? By your standards you are guilty of even more horror than you can imagine. I have put down this anger for years that has arisen anew in me as I write this, I would love to give you some details of what your evil ancestor people did to my ancestor people to take this land, but my blood pressure has risen high enough for now. I have to put it out of my mind, and accept, and yes forgive people like you. But if you insist on taking the guilt for the past, then fine, how would you like to be punished and how will you make retribution? What do you think is fair? Kat and Savas, what do you have to say now?
Kat on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 19:34:46 John said: Frankly your grievances pale in comparison to the genocide perpetrated on the indigenous people who were murdered by the immigrants from beyond the ocean. *************** I have dealt with people who have your kind of thinking as well and This is NOT the opression olympics. People have suffered, period. John said: Are you ready to return to your accessorial homeland and are you ready to ask forgiveness for your African soldier ancestors that killed, raped, and stole from the native people? Will you stand by your previous statements of deserved retribution? ********* Some Native Americans were also involved in catching runaway slaves and keeping slaves for themselves. Both sides did bad things and suffered injustice as well. I would leave the U.S if I knew where exactly my homeland is. There 52 countries in Africa. Please point to where my tribe is located and Ill go there. If you want retribution, take that issue up with the government since the taking of Indian land was sponsored and funded by the U.S government. Instead of placing blame to where it really lies= U.S government, You seem to be pointing the finger the at black people as your scape goat. Minorities blaming other minorities. How original!! This is my last post to you because you CLEARLY have unresolved issues and your post clearly reveals that. I really thought you were geniune but you are unforunately projecting your issues on other minorities instead pointing the finger where it really lies which is the people in power. I will not be your punching bag for your hatred against african descended people.
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Davida on Mon 29 Dec 2008 at 23:08:12 The horror that humans have dont to each other finds all sorts of ways to classify itself. Racism is only one a symptom. If we were all grey blobs, with perfectly circular eyes and no distingushing features we would find ways to divide and classify each other, discriminate and hurt each other. You can choose to hold on to the wrong that was done you but it will limit your ability to find joy in life. You can choose to ignore the wrong your culture has done but again this will limit you. As my fav history teacher said those who dont learn history are destined to repeat itbut also, those who bury their head in the past, will miss all future possibilities.
john.tecumseh on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 00:20:14 Kat, when the bright light of truth shines into the darkness of myth and falsehood it is often bewildering and painful for the person who lives in that darkness of the myth and falsehoods. It is far more comfortable for you, and people like you, to cast blame and resentment on others. You and Savas pressed the issue of responsibility of past wrongs. You refuse to forgive and feel it is appropriate to hold your grudge for past wrongs just because a person has light skin and may have been related to a slave owner. It is you that cast judgment on the newborn babies with light skin because of wrongs of the past. My dad taught me long ago to forgive and forget. He taught me to love who he called the great American Chief, George Washington, and to free myself of judgment and blame of others. He taught me that I am a full blooded American Citizen and that hatred and holding blame would only harm me and my future in America. He taught me about the Enlightenment movement and caused me to love the good founding fathers who established individual liberty in America. It would be healing for you to admit that you are wrong to judge others. As you judge others so will you be judge. You personally will have to answer before God for the hatred and resentment you hold for others that are no more guilty than yourself. Your must also know that native people, actually members of my clan and the Cherokees,helped escaped slaves make their way north. Now you have made false claims and falsely judged my ancestors who fed and befriended your ancestors. You are ready to lash out at anyone in order to support your hatred and resentment. Your hateful feelings for the other children of God will not gain favor and will likely make your way difficult on Mother Earth. You have only yourself to blame. I do not think you should leave America, you are an American Citizen and this is where you belong. I wrote what I did to demonstrate to you that holding blame is fruitless and begets only harm for yourself and your nation. It is difficult for me to deal with any harm one child of God inflicts on another and I do become angry with I consider how brutal some can be to others. I never held you guilty for what the Buffalo Soldiers did in the past, nor do I hold anyone today guilty for the past. I do not want to give our nation back to the native people, I want to move forward with forgiveness and corporation, and yes love for one another. Again I wanted you to confront an example of how you too would be guilty under your statements above. As far as minorities blaming one another, you are wrong and hateful in your attitudes toward other American Citizens and I will never stand with the majority or minorities based on falsehood. I am a
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fully enfranchised individual American Citizen fully vested in my personal liberty and believe in individual liberty for all other American Citizens. I will never join you or any others in blame and resentment of my brothers and sistersand I do not mean just native American brothers and sisters, but all Gods children in my nation. That which many call God and my relatives call the Great Spirit has filled my heart with love for creation with no exceptions, except those that would harm or falsely judge others. It is my duty to resist and protect the innocent and will leave the final judgment of others to God. I have no unresolved issues. I walk under the Sun and Moon of the Great Spirit and live with love for all Gods creation on dear Mother Earth. I do not insult the creator with unresolved issues regarding who is guilty and not guilty. If someone seeks to harm me or my loved ones, or if they declare themselves my enemy and seek to kill me, then I will rely on God to give me the strength and wisdom to overcome, live with, or perhaps die with the ultimate will of fate. The will of God allowed the light skinned people to take this land. I have found they are good Children of God and they gave me and my kind personal liberty and opportunity beyond the imagination of my native American forbearers. I do not question the will of God, I walk in harmony with that will. I have experience the joy of accepting Gods will and not blaming Gods will. You want me to overlook the error of your ancestors and join you in pointing a finger of guilt on what you call People In Power because of the error of their ancestors. You want me to join you and people like you in making them a punching bag. Absolutely not. I will tell you what my Grandfather told my father and he told me. He said the light skinned people came to this land, now called America, under the guidance and countenance of the Great Spirit. The Great Spirit gave them this land because America will be a light unto the world and will ultimately fulfill the purpose ordained by the Great Spirit. He said that the Great Spirit has chosen this land for a special purpose and the light skinned people to lead the way for all others. He told us that to go against the light skinned people would be fruitless and against the will of our Great Father. He said that only despair would come from struggling against the will of the Great Spirit. This is why my clan left our Tribe many years ago and began to follow the God of the new people. And we have prospered and known great joy in following this teaching. Those of my Tribe that resisted and still hold resentment are wretched and know little joy today. So, Kat, if you want to run and hide and deny your own faults in resentment against other, fine with me, you will have to answer ultimately to something far beyond me. If it is working for you and people like you, then go for it. I will only leave you with this since you have decided to end your participation in this dialoguebeware, God loves his light skinned, and dark skinned, and children of all skin shades unless they cast themselves against others. He will not tolerate the evil of false judgment and hatred for others and will ultimately have His way.
Davida on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 00:48:01 savas the child who is sexually abused has a reason to be angry the great grand child of that child does not. I have a dear friend who is jewish every year she attends a walk at aushwivetz (sp?) She reveals in it makes a career out of being a victem. Yet she lost no family during WWII and doesnt acutally know anyone who was in a nazi camp. She isnt an observant jew. She is a cultrual one whose main jewish trait is being a victem of something that happened before she died. And yet people actually in auswivets (sp?) who lived through it gird themselves with strength and move forward and would
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be angry if anyone ever called them victems.
strangefruit on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 06:17:56 Davida, let me ask you a question what are you saying? That black people should get over 400 yrs of slavery, because every black person living now has most likely not endured slavery? If that is what youre saying you are wrong. Blacks are suffering from the side effects of slavery to this very day. Open up your eyes and look around. Its not that hard to see. Right, the rape victim* has reason to be angry, which can cause that person trauma that severely affects any offspring that rape victim has, and so on and so forth. It becomes a cycle until it is broken. By the way, I doubt shes a very dear friend of yours from the way you talk about her. She reveals in it and make a career out of being a victim? Pretty harsh, dont you think?
strangefruit on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 06:52:43 Oh and the whole spew about those 3 black women beating up on you and you being fearful of black women who approached you after that would you have been fearful of white women who approached you after that had it been white girls that kicked your ass (LOL I kid) instead? I doubt it. Their racism brought out your prejudices. Oh, I agree with you as well no one should live in the past.
Davida on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 07:31:19 Sure I would be fearful of aggresive redheaded women jumped me and kicked the crap out of meor blonde haired dumb ass skin heads types, wearing leather jackets and studded collars I would have had fear of them as a young girl. And yes the girl I speak of is a good friend. No one has perfect friends we all have flaws and that is one of hers I have many as well. And lastly I do not propose getting over 400 years of slavery as that would be an overtly simplistic statement. I said learn from the past but do not let the past keep you from seeing the changes of the future.
Davida on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 07:57:57 Having thought on this a bit more I would ask a question: why was my fear of the girls who hurt me- and people who resemble them (for a few years following the attack) any different than the feelings you have expressed about white culture which is based on you and your cultures history with them. Why is your feelings okay and mine must be racist when they both come from past wrongs? I eventually got over my fear as I got out into the world, made friends, became a women (i was just a girl then). I have grown and matured and no longer have that fear. I would also note being a big billie holiday fan that your user name StrangeFruit is not lost on me. Billie Holiday was an Amazing women (one of my personal musical heros), and strange fruit is a haunting and amazing (yet horrible) song that tells of very real horrible attrocities. Intersting though that you choose it as your user name. Lastly 400 years of slavery again is to narrow a view. as I said previously this was not a new problem. it exsisted before any of the sub races of the human race began to interact. Its a basic
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sickness of the soul that would show itself in other ways even if we all looked identical. To focus on and get caught up in this one part of history means we can never make a better tomorrow. we learn from yesterday and look to tomorrow to make it betterwe can not live in yesterday.
strangefruit on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 17:45:47 Ahhh Davida your logic is so flawed. I am CERTAIN that all Black women DO NOT look alike, so for you to fear random Black women (for years @ that) for your ONE experience with 3 different black women (whom I am certain did not look alike either) is very prejudice (oh and by the way I never called your feelings racist I called them what they are prejudice) Im sure you had encounters with black women before that experience, and Im sure not all were negative. What about the countless black women who walked right on by you in public prior to that experience without a care for you minding their own business? Did that ever sway your opinion of black women? Im sure it did not. But one bad experience caused you to (gasp) FEAR a whole race of women. LOL wow!!! How becoming? (Sarcasm) As for my racist feelings against white people I dont have any for I do not believe that my own race is superior to that of any other. I have never gone to great lengths to prove that white people somehow have smaller brains, or feeble intellect. Funny, in my acting class my partner is a young white woman and she is Im sorry to say but as dumb as a bat. But this one person could not sway my opinion about a whole race of people. Thats just illogical. People are people -shrugs- we couldnt ALL be the same outside, as much as we are anatomically. Anyway, I am too a big fan of Billie Holiday and that song touches my soul. Ahh it speaks of the lynchings of black men in the South how refreshing? Lol. Strange fruit means more than that to me however. I have Strangefruit tattooed on my side as well. I view myself as a strange fruit very different, but still (like fruit) a necessity. Its a reminder, that although Im different that I am still needed. I take it you saw my username and thought voila, look at her living in the past atroscities yeah right. Is that why you made it a point to tell me the song wasnt lost on you? Hmm whatever. Good day Davida.
strangefruit on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 18:04:25 Nonserviam is a racist. There is no reasoning with those kind of people. Smh.
john.tecumseh on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 18:11:39 Davida, the three dark skinned girls that attracted you was for racial reasons only. Black apologists see no problem with this. Had three light skinned girls attracted a so called Black girl for racial reasons this would be an outrage. This is a good example of the double standard held by Black racialists and how very wrong their attitude is toward appropriate racial relations. The historical ignorance of black racialists is amazing to me. In reality Europeans suffered much more from slavery and experienced slavery for far much more time than has been experienced by Africans. The very word slave comes because of the large number of Slavic people that were enslaved. If an ancestry of slavery was as debilitating for social progress as Black Racialist whine about, the people of European ancestry would be far worst off today than Africans. Take a look at these references for the truth not Black racialist myth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery , http://www.blurtit.com/q249913.html , http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm. You would think that all people of African ancestry in America today were born from slave ancestors and now have a slavery gene that keeps them from social progress. There are a number of good
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valid reasons why some people with African ancestry are not doing well in America today, and good and valid reasons why many other people of African ancestry are very successful socially and economically today. Black racialists, however, are incapable of facing the real problems within themselves that are holding them back. It is much easier to blame others and excuse the real problems that they have themselves.
Davida on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 21:58:44 Strangefruit I didnt say my logic (as a young girl) wasnt flawedit was. It was along the lines of being bit by pit bull and fearing a poodle. irational and reactionary. I stand corrected you did say prejudice and not racist..and there is a difference between the two. Billie holidays song I said it was amazing not refreshingrefreshing would be an odd choice of words indeed. I was aware it was about lynching having done a large term paper on billie in college. My english teacher instructed us to leave our names off the paper. She graded them and then would try to guess who wrote what. I was the only A in the class. She guessed ever person of color. when finially I told her I wrote the paper she couldnt believe it. Said a white girl could not have understood Billies music nor written with such passion. She actually made the claim the white people do not feel music like black people do. Thats along the lines of the statements you commented that one race is superior in any area and how you dont agree with it. I feel music deeply. I feel a connection with the mountains and nature deeply. My love of the mountains has nothing to do with my Native american ancestor. Nor do I need to have a specific racial background to be moved by music. I apoligize for thinking you choose the screen name for the song along. I see your take on the name and get it. Would love to see your tattoo. I have several tattoos myself..and love to see how people choose to express themselves with ink. The assumption that you choose this name because of the topic you were addressing and your comments was shortsighted A person should never assume to see the whole picture based on a few comments on a blog. Lastly I agree how incredibly boring would it be if we all looked alike. Reading Abagonds post on all of us being brothers and sisters, coming from Eve i think dated December 24th or 26th really expresses how I feel.
strangefruit on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 23:28:38 Refreshing was a joke. I was being kind of sarcastic hence the lol in follow up. But anyway, Ill assume your English teacher was a Black woman . Davida, ignorance is bliss. She was ignorant. Because of the color of your skin you are somehow inable to write a good paper about a black musician? And inable to feel music? LOL thats funny. It makes sense that shed assume a person of color wrote it but that is due to her own narrow mindedness. -Shrugs- I experience ppl like that every day. My Eng. Prof (a white woman) isnt racist at all. She is stereotypical but its like subconcious to her. She doesnt even realize it. Im a black female and Im into all sorts of music from Cyndi Lauper to A Tribe called Quest, from ballet to acting all sorts so shes comfortable around me. I believe she recognizes my ability and tries very hard to accomodate me. Many times she has gone out of her way to bring books in for me, find alternative material just a very nice, lovely woman. Anyway one day I walk into class and I had a book in my hand by Sister Souljah called No disrespect and she looks at the book and laughs then goes on to say Why are you reading this? Youre not hood. Youre not ghetto. And I didnt really know how to take it mainly because when she sees me reading books by Merian Keyes and Dean Koontz and various white authors she has nothing to say as if it is default literature. I deviate from that and
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suddenly, why are you reading that? as if she was trying to say well youre black, but you dont act black so maybe you shouldnt read stuff like that. And its b.s. But we all have to deal with it. Black, White, Hispanic, Middle eastern everyone. That doesnt make it right at all. We ARE in fact all the same. I agree with that mankind post 110% P.s. John Tech youre an asshole. have a good day.
Davida on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 23:54:51 your teacher like mine was only comfortable with one facet and you are a multi faceted being
Davida on Tue 30 Dec 2008 at 23:55:26 John Do you have any resources for native american research for my charcter?
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john.tecumseh on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 04:25:01 Davida, just my opinion, but it would seem to me that it would be best to have your character as you described prior with African-European ancestry. I have found Internet blogs such as this to be most informative and great for research. The vast majority of mainstream American society are completely uninformed regarding the hostile attitude held by people who consider themselves Black today in America. Most mainstream Americans are like I was just a few months ago, still thinking we are working together toward fulfilling Dr. Kings dream for America. The Internet will eventually serve to enlighten mainstream America to the fact that Dr. Kings dream is dead within the so called Black community. Hostility and hate will eventually begat and be joined by hostility and hate in return. It now appears to me that people with the Black racialist mindset and attitude are determined to provoke confrontation. The native American issue is less a biracial issue and more an example of how a devastated people deal with near annihilation and loss of a homeland and culture. The ones that are able to abandon blame and the attitude of victimization are able to move forward and make a place for themselves in mainstream American society. The ones that turn to alcohol and blame are most often wretched individuals. The native American tribal Shaman are currently predicting that racial discord will eventually so cripple America that some other people will come from across the ocean and annihilate most of America as we know it today and that native Americans will be more adapt to live in the aftermath of such a catastrophe. Their thinking is that China and Russia will gain enough strength in this decade to rain nuclear weapons on most of the large cities throughout America. This vision is now being experienced by Shaman in many reservations. I come from a Shaman clan myself and I have a similar uneasy feeling. This is why I was so alarmed when I realized the hostility against what has been called here the People In Power which is actually mainstream America. I have argued prior with my relatives that America was uniting rather than dividing and that the trend toward hostility was not evident. Now I know this is not true and feel myself that devastation will come to America before the remaining people left will go on fulfill the spiritual destiny of this land. My people say the time will come in 2012, just three years from now. The native people in South America have had the same vision and are now expecting the event in 2012 as well. Strangefruit, how you feel about me is absolutely irrelevant to me. I am interested only in how you might refute, challenge, or simply respond to my statements and facts presented.
abagond I like Billie Holiday too!
on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 10:03:52
abagond on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 10:10:42 Speaking of 2012, I wrote about American world power coming to an end by 2017: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2006/03/04/2006-2034/
abagond on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 10:23:18 strangefruit: instead of merely calling John Tecumseh an asshole, it would be more interesting and helpful to the rest of us if you told us why you feel that way.
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abagond on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 10:47:54 Blacks are not like the great granddaughter of a rape victim and they are not like Davidas dear friend who plays the victim about Auschwitz even though no one in her family died at the hands of Hitler. That is because racism is still far from dead. And one of the main things that keeps racism alive is the unwillingness of whites to admit there is anything wrong. So when whites say things like I do not see race and Blacks cling to the past or Blacks are playing the victim, etc, it does not go down well.
john.tecumseh on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 17:35:26 abagond, i am very impressed with your predictions. Yours are very similar to my vision of the future and that of many of my inner circle. Our vision is not that devastation will occur in 2012 as is now widely held by many of my acquaintances. We feel that the scenario will be something like this with these indication triggers: Around 2012 the US Dollar will begin to lose its dominance as the international trading currency. China will continue to build up its naval forces and blockade Taiwan. America will back down and allow China to take the island and abandon our treaties and promises with Taiwan. This will then trigger a change of power and influence in the World. I do see Russia going with China, however, other than than, I agree with your polarization of the worlds nations. The next indication trigger, if our vision is clear, will be that China coerces the Arab states to sell oil only to their coalition. They will by now have power and influence over South America and will also control their oil. By perhaps your date of 2017 China will have gained power and influence over most of Asia. Within a few more years, with American power so diminished, China, Russia, and their coalition will do to Africa what they are now doing to Tibet. This action will fulfill a long spoken of vision for the native peoples on the African continent. The China coalition will do to the native Africans what the Europeans did to the American continent. They will subject the natives to large reservations and as my grandfather saw long ago, and make the people barren. I interpret this to mean that the Chinese coalition will sterilize the native peoples in some way and not allow them to have children. Our estimate is that this will begin to occur toward the end of 2020. It would be about this time that the vision of the fire storms over the American cities will occur and will be the final trigger for the people left in America to make their spiritual assent from the ashes of their lost prosperity. There should be indications all along to support this vision, and there will be opportunities to change this destiny, however, the indications I now see only lead me to feel America will not have the strength and cohesion necessary to turn away this sad tide of fate. Up until a few months ago, I felt there might be hope for America, but as a great man once advised: United we stand, divided we fall.
Davida on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 17:41:10 i agree with you to an extent. I do not deny the white culture is racist. but again believe its a product of sin. Stop and talk to people from any other race (indian (from indian) native amerians, japanese, chinese etcand you find racism. Racism is Prejudice taken to its extremist pointand it is almost a part of our DNA programing. perhaps its part of how we learn to protect ourselves, a natural brain function- who knows (i am not a psycologist.) You will meet individual enlighted people in your life but as a wholeanything that can divide and segregate us into smaller groups will be used. I felt the rape victem analogy was wrong as is the 400
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years of slavery discussion. I dont think it was okay it was horrible but if its used as the reason for current issues then I feel you are living in the past and allowing it to keep you down. However, racism experienced today is a valued point. I agree that TODAY there are still problems and those problems should be delt with as best as they can. Today a black man attempt to get a job will experience problems because of thought patterns in the white culture that are there today. That is a much more valid point. But I dont think they will ever be completely gone. If we all blend into one melting pot race we would have another form f segregation and distinction. Its our sin nature. I dont exscuse it we should fight against our sin nature but I believe it will always be there. So I guess I agree with your overall statements on racism but feel its not that simplistic. I do note you are specifically addressing white vs black issue on this specific bloghowever I feel its just to global an issue to be whittled down to only two races.
Davida on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 17:50:25 to note a single person regardless of race -can legitmently say I dont see race and it be true. Race is a defining issue for your life and is important to you because it affects you daily. A person unaffected by race however, could say that and it be true. As long as they arent claiming that all white people or all south city girls dont see race It might not go down well to a person whose daily interactions are colored by their appearance. But if I told a devote religous person that their god wasnt important to me i would get the same reaction. Or any other person whose daily life is impacted by a certain subject that that subject was not important to me..It wouldnt go down well But that gets back to seeing life thru my eyes vs. your eyes. And thats why I read your blog. to get the chance to see life through someone elses eyes some different from me.
Davida on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 17:55:13 John do not dispair the indications I now see only lead me to feel America will not have the strength and cohesion necessary to turn away this sad tide of fate. Americans are like a big family we bicker amoungust ourselves constantlybut I would stand side by side with you and abagond and anyone else if their was an outside threat. when 9/11 occured you saw new yorkers and then people from all over the country regardless of racestanding side by side working. I believe america is much stronger than all of our differencesand in fact I believe its our variaty that makes us even more wonderful and strong
john.tecumseh on Wed 31 Dec 2008 at 23:11:28 Divida, i had no idea i would go this deeply into this subject, but having stepped in i will go just a bit further. My grandfather said that there would be an end times in this cycle for America when the nation would divide in what he termed shadow tribes. He said they would make hidden war on one another. Based on his words I now interpret what he said to mean that the people who call themselves Black, the so called White people, the so called Hispanics, the Chinese and Asians, and the Arab people will form into hidden militant groups in a type of undeclared civil war. The scenario would go something like this: the Chinese would side with China and become
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effectively spies. The Arab people would support the terrorists. The military would be divided and join the conflict. America would try to respond to Chinas takeover of the oil and Africa but would be weakened and draw the wrath of the Chinese in a nuclear exchange. A few months ago, I felt this was an extreme vision and felt that this would not be possible. I felt that Dr. King was so powerful that he had changed the course with his vision and leadership. Visions and predictions often come to some people creating an opportunity to change the course of destiny. As I have learned more about the current indications I have lost hope. I do not despair. As I have said I am ever prepared to find harmony with fate. For example, people like me and our loved ones will leave the cities when the Chinese people begin to leave the Cities. This will be an indication in the vision for us to act. Likely they will know the times better than others. Dr. Kings teacher was Gaudi. Gaudi taught how to use peacefulness to overcome adversity. Gaudis teaching was the reason Dr. King was successful. In his last days Dr. King advised: [Quote] The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.[End Quote] Dr. Kings vision was very powerful, but his dream has been betrayed. The indications are toward conflict not peace. Davida, I hope your optimism is valid, however, having read here and in other blogs, I feel the indications are not leading toward peace and harmony in America. Happy New Year!
strangefruit on Thu 1 Jan 2009 at 06:11:26 Did I miss something? Did Davida say the three young ladies who attracted her were dark skinned? Black apologists? You cant be serious. Europeans suffered from slavery a great deal more than Africans? You speak of the large amount of Slavic peoples being enslaved, but have nothing to say about the 11 to 18 million black Africans that were enslaved in the Arab slave trade as well? Even to this day about 20% of Mauratanias population is still very much enslaved so when you say that Europeans suffered from slavery a great deal more than Africans to what extent do you mean? Most Northern Africans were even forced to abandon their native languages and only communicate to their Arab slave masters in Swahili. Your whole light skinned beating on Black girls being an outrage and not so much the other way around logic is lost on me. Where did you get that fact from? Any references? In fact, I think you bringing your whole Europeans suffered from slavery much more than Africans theory up was a sorry attempt to justify something for some reason. It was totally irrelevant IMO. That is why I called you an asshole but go ahead prove to me youre not or that I am very wrong. Im looking forward to it John Tech.
Davida on Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 04:48:52 if you read many of my comments you will see I am a typo queen. You can infer something about my intelligence from it or you can guess I cant type on a standar laptop keyboard because i am used to my ergo one from work.
john.tecumseh
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I have decided to make my final comments in this particular forum. As a child I was taught that to become an adult in my clan and culture that I had to first conquer myself within my own individual being. This is far more difficult than it sounds and requires deep, sometimes painful, introspection and personal honesty. This requires even to become the master of ones emotions and thoughts. I was taught to examine carefully even the source and origination of my thoughts and emotions as they first began to form in my mind. I was taught not to be impulsive even in the face of fear and to maintain detached clean thinking at all times. When I see a sty in another persons eye, I was taught first to examine my vision and to remove the sty first from my eye. I was taught if I dared to prescribe advice or medicine to someone else, that I must first heed that advice myself and heal myself first. To recognize a fault in another, it was my task to hunt down that fault in myself and not to judge another but to be appreciative that I had been able to recognize and improve myself from my experience of seeing the fault in another. Therefore I was taught to learn and improve with every person I met and experienced. I was taught that we must each answer for only our selves. I was taught that I do not have to be responsible for the error of another before God, only for my own individual being. I was taught that I was on earth to prepare my soul in such a way that God would be pleased with me and accept my soul into Gods presence when I was free of the body. I was taught that all life is in preparation for the freedom granted in death. I was taught that each day is a good and wonderful day to join God should fate so rule. I am now an adult in my clan and culture and look forward to the day that I can offer my soul to God and show the work I have done on Mother Earth to be worthy to be in our Father Gods presence. This is the manner in which I joined this forum, my attitude as I participated in the dialectic here, and is the manner in which I depart.
john.tecumseh on Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 06:57:53 To abagond: you present yourself as an authority on being a White person. You seem to know what each and every so called White person thinks and feels. You do not hesitate to define and stereotype them and cast judgment on them with authority and egocentric authority. I came to this forum to determine how the people writing here think. I have taken all at their word; I do not, however, feel that I know how every person with African heritage feels by just what I have learned here. I only know what you and others write here. I came here and read other blogs to learn as much as possible to find out for myself what people think here and to determine if I can detect trends and what I think of as indications. I feel I understand now how you and others writing here feel and think about the subject of this forum, and this has been most helpful in my research. I will draw my final conclusions after much more research. Thank you for maintaining this forum and for you hospitality to all who would make expression here. You seem to be a seeker of wisdom, but perhaps not a follower. This is not for me to determine, this is just a casual observation and superficial at that. The ultimate destiny of your journey here on Earth is yet to be determined. I have no insight into that. I can only give my impression after reading a few of your statements here, a mere snapshot in time, nothing yet is finally determined. We are brothers. I not sure if you recognized me as that, however, I have recognized our kinship in you. Should our souls one day meet in the presence of our God, I expect you will recognize me then. If not, farewell.
john.tecumseh on Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 07:03:05 Davida, dear sister Davida, your gentle and loving heart speaks in your words. It has been a joy to know your presence in this forum. Your sincerity is not realized here, and you are judged cruelly, but
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you too are here to learn. Sometimes when we open ourselves to others they use that openness to inflict hurt. I know that your understanding and forgiving nature will protect your good soul from the evil of hatefulness and anger toward your misguided brother and sisters. Forgiveness is a virtue God loves in his Children. Keep in mind that you must only answer for yourself, and that they judge your spirit at their own peril. God will eventually work all this out in the end. Your gentle and loving heart will be a joy one day to God when it is time for your soul to ask for the reward of returning to Gods presence. You goodness will be evident not only to someone like me, but to the Master of your creation. When you are ready, write your story. Im sure it will be worthy of any reader. By the way, I was interested only in the meaning of your words and thoughts, not spelling. Typically good writers are poor typers.
john.tecumseh on Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 07:15:01 Strangefruit, by what you write, I see you as a bigot. You appear to be racially obsessed. Race and slavery seems to pervade your very being. Since I really do not know you, and since you too are not likely at the end time of your journey here on Earth, I would not even consider where you might go from here. I hope it is toward enlightenment and freedom from the racial poison that infects your being. It seems important to you that all people of African heritage have the moral high ground of having suffered from slavery more than other peoples. You are simply ignorant of fact. You have based your entire identity on falsehood. Perhaps you are sure that your relatives were mistreated slaves, perhaps you have certification of that fact. But be aware that your relatives may have been free all long in America, or freed by a loving owner who treated them well (or even loved them), or perhaps slave masters themselves (as you call them), or maybe a cruel overseer of slaves. If you feel so certain of your judgment of others, then you can stand justified perhaps when your dark skinned body returns to our Mother Earth and your soul must seek a new home among the souls of Gods accepted children in the presence of their creating Father. Hopefully you will not have judged them falsely and will be accepted rather than cast out and be judged as you have so long judged others. Regarding the issue of my being an Asshole: Take your complaint against me to my Father God. I try to walk in the countenance of my Father God at all times here on dear Mother Earth, and if my being an Asshole is a fair description of who or what I Am, then I ask that God deal with this issue between you and I and take the appropriate action to resolve that issue for you with me. So mote it be.
john.tecumseh on Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 07:18:29 Since I am departing this forum in this manner and at this time, anyone interested can find out more about me and how I feel about my brothers and sisters here. If you wish you can visit the website I created for my brothers and sisters here on our wonderious Mother Earth: http://www.mysticshaven.com
strangefruit on Sat 3 Jan 2009 at 01:35:53 Ohh the deflection. You didnt address anything I wrote. You wrote something, I countered that argument and suddenly I am a bigot LOL. Listen you contradicted yourself throughout your whole comment, one you do not know me (that you pointed out) but then you go on to
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say my entire identity is based on (gasp) falsehood! LOL as if you have the slightest clue of what my identity is based on. If you didnt have a better counter argument you should have just kept it moving instead of wasting about 10 minutes of your time thinking that complete and utter bullshit up and 3 minutes of mine for having to write this to you. I have so long judged others? LOL contradiction once again. You dont know me remember? Or did you forget? You fail to realize that race is a social construct, used to keep black skinned people at the bottom of the totem pole. That social construct made by white skinned people was not made with love. Your father God did not make that! LOVE can not erase that. Just stop, SMH. Where did you come up with this? Am I suppose to take you serious? Is he preaching on a forum? LOL yeah ok! Anyway my point was that your whole Europeans suffered slavery more for a longer period of time line (which I do not believe is accurate) DOES NOT MAKE ENSLAVEMENT OF THE African peoples OK. It doesnt make it right. Now goodbye, preacher.
mike on Fri 26 Jun 2009 at 16:40:44 I MUST LAUGHTHIS IS EXACTLY WHY WHITES ARE SUSPECT OF BLACKSNOT RACISTS OR PREJUDICETHEY KNOW BLACKS WILL NEVER LET IT GO BECAUSE THEIR ONLY EXCUSS FOR ACADEMIC INFERIORITY IS TO USE THE RACE CARDTHINK ABOUT ITLONG BEFORE AFRICANS AND EUROPEANS SET SITE ON EACH OTHEREUROPEANS WERE LIGHT YEARS AHEAD IN TECHNOLOGYTHE MINUTE THEY GAVE INDEPENCE TO AFRICANSEVRY AFRICAN COUNRTY DIGRESSED INTO UNCIVILIZED, CHOATIC NATIONSEVEN WITH ALL THE FEDERAL ASSISTANCE..BLACKS IN AMERICA STILL COMMIT WHITE & BLUE COLLAR CRIME IN FAR GREATER NUMBERS THAN THEIR PERCENTAGAE OF POPULATIONI SAY LETS SEPARATE THE RACES IF BLACKS THINK WHITES ARE SO RACISTSAND WE WILL CERTAINLY SEE THE WHITE SOCIETY WILL EXCEL BEYOND TODAY BY NOT HAVING THE BURDEN OF BLACKS DRAGGING THE COUNTRY DOWNWHILE ANY SEMBLENCE OF CIVILITY IN THE BLACK SOCIETY WILL QUICKLT6 CRUMBLE INTO A SOMOLIA CONGO LIKE COUNTRY..NOT RACIST, JUST FACTUAL..BY THE WAY I WILL OMIT BLACKS ARE ATHELETICALLY SUPERIOR, WHILES WHITES & ORIENTALS ARE ACADEMICALLY SUPERIOR..ITS SIMPLY THE NATURE OF BIOLOGY & EVOLUTION..GET YOUR RACIST, CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER HEAD OUT THE SAND..STOP BOWING TO THE POLITICALLY CORRECT SELF RIGHTEOUS CROWD..AND OMIT THE NATURAL TRUTHFUL FACTS.D
Richard Mike Says:
on Tue 18 Aug 2009 at 15:23:59
This fool is the typical white boy who clearly does not know what the hell he is talking about. First Black people as a whole were well ahead of white in intelligence and accomplishment prior to being taken from their own countries. Conversely blacks have continued to excel at rates significantly higher than whites in all field such as education, politics, commerce, industry. It is time people like this Mike idiot had their clocks adjusted, your racist nonsense rhetoric is no more than republican hate speech. Seems like everytime a black person makes some great accomplishment you either ignore it or act like it never happened. We have astronauts, ceos, congressman and now a president. By the way it is whites who commit crimes at a far greater rate such as embezzelment, ie. Bernie Madoff and Mark Sanford.
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The truth is you are the only racist and perhaps you should consider going back to where you came from somewhere in iceland or finland
G-Ball Richard:
on Tue 18 Aug 2009 at 16:47:29
Well stated! By the way Mike, learn how to spell, it is admit, not omit.
Wayne on Tue 18 Aug 2009 at 18:57:01 I would be interested in a topic called Why blacks are blind to their own racism. Abagond, make a section available to this topic and lets see what the comments are? Should be interesting.
Nquest on Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 01:03:05 First, WAYNE Since YOU would be interested in a topic called Why blacks are blind to their own racism then its incumbent on you to create the time and space to have that discussion. Do that and Ill gladly contribute to the discussion starting with noting how silly the topic would be because Im sure you would fail to establish both remarkable Black racism i.e. so-called Black racism that deserves to be mentioned in the same context as the widespread, well-documented historic (and current) phenomenon one might call White racism AND I sure you would fail to demonstrate that Black blindness to their own racism was even worth talking about i.e why it would interest you when said Black racism would easily be shown to be pale in comparison to so-called White racism. But maybe you have some serious historical data that shows how Blacks have feigned blindness to, rationalized or otherwise excused or failed to address their racism when theyve been confronted with clear evidence of it. Oh and Im sure that whatever youre calling Black racism would hardly be the functional equivalent to whats been referenced here. That is unless you can show how whatever Black people who are supposed to be blind to their racism participated in, were complicit to or somehow excuse or fail to account for oppression and injury Whites or whoever have suffered at the hands of Blacks enslaving Whites/etc. or their ancestors or subjugating them or their ancestors to apartheid and other forms of material discrimination in employment, education, housing, etc., etc. Yes, it would be real interesting to see you dig that hole and show your shallowness, not to mention your intellectual laziness chasing moral equivalences (play switch-a-roo games) that have NEVER existed Anyway What I really wanted to comment on was this: whites had to believe racist lies. Like that blacks lacked brains or a willingness to work hard. The funny thing about those kinds of common prejudice beliefs is the whole schizophrenia of it all. On one hand, the Blacks=lazy stereotype INHERITED FROM SLAVERY (you know, when Blacks were doing quite a bit of work) has come to define the way American attitudes view welfare and other social programs. Blacks supposedly are looking for hand-outs and dont want to work (or educate
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themselves). On the other hand, Black/brown people are supposedly taking their jobs or their college admission spots.
abagond Right, they cannot even keep their lies straight.
on Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 03:24:21
abagond Wayne:
on Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 10:21:17
I have written about black American racism, though not about blindness to it: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/all-blacks-are-racist/
anonymous on Thu 27 Aug 2009 at 15:01:32 can i just say that it interesting that you have used a picture of what appears to be jessica alba. thats ironic because shes half mexican & has said herself that she has experiences racism & being bullied.
abagond Good catch. Thanks. I changed the picture.
on Thu 27 Aug 2009 at 15:59:14
Mechanical Engineer on Wed 14 Oct 2009 at 09:28:04 The problem with White America is that all of their inventions, mathematics, technology, science, engineering originates with Eastern, Asian, Jewish, Hindu/Indian and Black inventors. Almost no inventions were developed by math-fearing White Anglo-Saxons. Just because White Anglo-Saxons own the companies which hire ethnic and black scientists & engineers to develop all their technologies does not make them superior. It actually makes the White Anglo-Saxons a sub-human inferior race. All they can do is put the technology designed, built and tested by ethnics and non-Whites in the hands of mediocre White people. Then mass-produce those products as if illiterate and math/science-fearing Whites had anything to do with it. All of the Mathematics, Science, Engineering, Technology and know-how the West has originated from the non-European Mystery Schools of Babylon, Egypt, India, Turkey, China and Persia. Whites are not good at mathematics. Unless youre good at Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry you cannot invent anything. Blacks, Jews, Indians and Asians invented all of the technologies we have today. So frankly the Whites just end up the parasites in this entire set up. Of course theyre always told GM or Ford or Lockheed-Martin built this and that. But the R&D and advanced engineering divisions are all Asians, Easterners, Jews and African Blacks. Theres nearly no White guys in any of those fields.
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White guys are only good at selling products and marketing scams, writing corporate fiction and making up fake history. That is it. Unfortunately White America isnt very smart. Their Science and Math skills are inferior. They couldnt even detect as a whole that no one ever made it to the moon, because no material can shield any space vehicle from the Van Allen Radiation Belts around the Earth on the way to the Moon. Any astronaut who passes through it would die. Also, the Moons lunar soil surface CANNOT have footprints at all. In order for a colloidal substance like any type of sand to develop footprints, moisture, an atmosphere and a magnetic field are required. The Moon lacks all three, the Moon Landing footage is all fake. Most of us knew this back in 1969, not 40 years later like now. Also, with 9/11, kerosene is what jet fuel is. It cannot melt a steel skyscraper to a collapse. It doesnt even burn hot enough to come anywhere near the melting point of steel, and also requires enormous air compression to be lit off. Jet engines are all about heat-of-air-compression, as in they compress air to such extremely high compression ratios and pressures that the air itself is very hot before the fuel and ignition are even introduced into the engines combustion chamber. A weak, hard-to-burn oily fuel with LESS Btu per Lbs than Gasoline is needed to give the turbine a light push, without detonation of the fuel. Jet Fuel is a weak, oily, hard-to-ignite fuel the same as lantern fuel, used in extremely high compression engine like jet engines. One would have thought White America would have realized that Jet Fuel is just Kerosene and had nothing to do with the WTC collapses. Perfectly sliced 45 degree angle steel pier beams at ground zero, thermite molten pools of metal, and a smooth, linear collapse downward of the WTC Buildings at free-fall gravitational acceleration, these point to a controlled demolition. White America probably knows a bunch of White guys in the CIA did 9/11, then used that as an excuse to invade Iraq, to steal their secret underground ancient Babylonian Technologies, that Saddam when he was in power, kept hidden from the West. Almost seven years later, U.S. Forces are still in Iraq, and have committed genocide against Iraqs people. They have built thirty U.S. Military bases at a cost of 40 billion dollars each! There is no war going on in Iraq. It is all about genocide and colonization. Oil is not the reason the U.S. is there either. The U.S. was getting oil at 45 billion per year from Iraq, but has spent 7 trillion dollars in just six years! That disproves the war-for-oil myth. The U.S. is controlled by overseas Racist, Fascist Bankers in Europe, the Vatican and UK. America is their muscle power, a slave colony of all sorts of goods and products. Common White Americans dont understand things like Mathematics, History, Science, Physics, Geography, True History. Nor do most just spend long hours reading and studying information so they can piece together whats really going on.
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Most White Americans just dont care period. When their economy collapses and their being shot by U.N. troops who WILL shoot on Americans, then the might start to care, but by that time it will be too late for them, they are doomed. White America does not want to acknowledge the fact that all of the history marketed in their country is all fraud and gives the credit to the wrong people. They [White America] doesnt want to admit that they never really invented anything and always used non-Whites and foreigners to create Americas greatness. They dont want to admit that they only have America because they mass-murdered nearly 100 million people to steal it from them. They dont want to admit that America was really built by the Blacks, and many inventions we have today came from them, hijacked and stolen by Whites. They dont want to admit that White Americans became the richest people on Earth because of their terrorism and exploitation of Blacks by forced slave labor. They dont want to admit that White Americans despite being created to greatness by Black Slaves, had also tortured and murdered nearly 100 million Blacks from 1520 to 1960. They dont want to admit all of the wars the U.S. has been behind after 1945 have been racist and imperialist wars against the haves so America can steal it and make them have-nots, like they are now. Even the Philippines-U.S. war in 1902, the U.S. murdered 200,000 women and children to get the Philippines, most of them unarmed not being able to fight back, were lined up and shot by U.S. Troops in 1902. The excuse was that the Pilipino women and children would take up too much space for U.S. expansion and growth in the Philippines. White America also doesnt want to admit that their own Fascist, Racist Nazi Government has created 100% of the problems that people within and without America complain about on a daily basis. But because theyre a bunch of White people too, White America doesnt say anything. But the minute a Black person does something wrong but far less serious that what a bunch of White Nazi Mass Murderers in the U.S. Government are doing, they all of a sudden are blamed for doing wrong. White Americans dont want to admit that their own White Elite has targeted them, killed them, staged false flag terrorist attacks on them and would rather blame Arabs who DID NOT do 9/11 as the culprits. This is the sociopathic and criminal mind-set of White Americans who seem to just go about their lives as if they do no wrong. That is why when the end America and the West eventually come forth, the new ruler of the Earth have plans for the White people who surpass anything Hitler, Genghis Khan, Josef Stalin, Tamerlane and Pol Pot could ever think of. The elimination of White Americans and the White West in the most horrible and cruel manner, using radically-advanced bio-technologies and magnetic amplification directed energy weapons is some thing which is on its way. There is no stopping that.
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Whatever Hitler did is very minor compared to what the U.S., U.K., Israel and Australia have done and are still doing. Maybe this will help the next time a deaf, dumb and blind White person complains about racism against them. When in fact, justice dictates that White Race needs to be rounded up and mass-exterminated in gas chamber wherever they live. The Asiatic Races and African immigrants into the U.S. hold the most PhDs in advanced Engineering and Science than anyone else. With all the Whites gone, these groups will further advance the planet to great levels with all the useless and greedy Whites holding onto old technologies, completely eliminated. One should know that Europe was under the rule of the Moors, Mongols and Easterners for over 750 years combined. Europe is really West Asia and was developed by non-Whites. Whites overthrew their former non-White rulers and civilizers, who created all the science and technology for what people call as European Civilization. This is what led to the European Renaissance by around 1360 A.D. From that point on, Whites stole or hijacked all the technology taught to them by the Black Moors who built 16 major Universities in Europe, and claim it as theirs. In less than 100 years after that, Whites went all over the world misusing the technology they stole from non-Whites, to wreak havoc on the world. Whites whether they are good or not, really have no right to complain about anything that is happening to them, even if they are killed. All that is required to start the mass extermination of White people across North America is when their money is all taken by the foreign-owned Federal Reserve Corporation. When Whites revolt with a few small arms firearms and shotguns, that is when United Nations Troops and Chinese Troops already here in the USA, in all the old former U.S. Military bases closed down will come out and use helicopter gunships, tanks, APCs, missiles, rockets and air bombings on the Whites. White America doesnt even know their own Elite leaders have sold them out to the rest of the world. White America as a whole is complicit in Racism, Mass-Murder, Genocide, Forgery, Fraud, Theft, Receiving Stolen Property, False History, Slander, Libel, Torture, Sociopathy and Economic Fascism. This means when White America is wiped out, it is completely justified.
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Jallen on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 20:45:29 All people are blind to racism until its taught to them or experienced by them. If someone is racist, they cant be blind to it. That claim is not logical for if you are a racist then you think one race is superior to another. Thats not something you can be blind too. So your short and long answers cannot and do not explain Blind Racism as there is no such thing -I do want to point out that our country was founded on religious freedoms and not crimes. How it was occupied and developed is another story all together. I do agree that it was a crime to take the land of the natives and bringing black men in chains. -Racism didnt become a sin in the 1970s, it was always a sin. You make some very valid points, but they do not support your claim of the 4th point.
Will on Tue 16 Mar 2010 at 04:02:27 Abagond, it looks like you told the painful truth as some people dont appreciate it just for that reason. Some people would rather believe in the nonsense that racism is gone, blacks are more racist and blah, blah, blah Keep on giving them hell, Abagond.
Wondergirl on Wed 28 Apr 2010 at 22:38:07 I am tired of hearing about who hates blacks and the whole bit. God said My people perish from lack of knowledge. I take that as anyone who does not treasure knowledge will perish. I dont really care who dislikes my skin color, my ancestors were that deal. I am so proud of where I come from because it took a certain kind of high mindedness to come up against all that evil plotted against my black ancestors. Blacks need to look up, then forward, and remember always what is behind us. What an advanced, upstanding, diligent, spiritual and honorable race we are regardless of the bad apples. Who told these other races they are better? Did Jehovah God speak and say it was so? Not. The arrogance is unbelievable. Blacks taught this nation about democracy, the economic foundation of the U.S. was established on my ancestors backs with cotton and molasses etc, also under the whips,guns and chains. We as a people have lent too much attention to others not accepting us, its stupid at this point. We are equal to any group based on our story alone, not even what we are accomplishing these days. We are so happy for someone to say something good about us, taking pity on ourselves which is perverted because pity is what you feel for others. I am grateful for those who changed laws to help us come up, but enough blacks had paid with their lives. Diligent hands will rule. Peace to all.
Wondergirl Mike,
on Wed 28 Apr 2010 at 22:49:53
When you stated Europeans were light years ahead of Africans are you talking BC or AD? I think scholars would disagree.
pyano on Sun 30 May 2010 at 04:19:05 Honestly this just hits the nail on the head. Its really a kind of doublethink- we must simultaneously accept the idea that America is a good place and that blacks are equal in all ways and the fact that there is still a huge economic gap between the two. Very little of the
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present day racism is conscious. There isnt any time at which a white person learns of a racist idea and accepts it.it is ingrained very young and simply never thoroughly questioned.
D&nni on Sun 30 May 2010 at 11:42:04 In America whites are the ones whore blind to racism, in Brasil almost everyone is (black,pardos, mulatos, caboclo, whites,etc) thats the reason why it will never end there. Take a look at this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/latin_america/10159297.stm
MustBeRacist on Sat 19 Feb 2011 at 08:22:11 I must be racist! I am white. Thats what Ive learned. Thats the long and short of it from reading the above. Check this out for confirmation: For Bay Area blacks, its a hallelujah moment San Francisco Chronicle Wednesday, November 5, 2008 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/MNCF13TA70.DTL Excerpts: Were so far away from fulfilling (Kings) dream that its tragic, said Shelby Steele, a scholar on race at Stanford Universitys Hoover Institution. The reality on the ground is that the black-white achievement gap is worse than it ever was, 55 percent of all federal prisoners are black, the illegitimacy rate is over 70 percent. So the reality is there is no parity between blacks and white. But Obamas success in deemphasizing race in his campaign calls into question how black people will view his presidency, Steele argued. It makes other blacks extremely nervous, because the black identity for 40 years has been based in challenging, in saying youre a racist unless you prove otherwise, he said. Whites have always been, and will remain, Obamas political base. Not blacks. Thank you for letting me know40 years too late! I sure wish that African-Americans who meet me would hand me a card listing the acceptable ways to prove Im not racistthat is, if they can ever get past my skin color!
twg on Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 02:14:03 White racism, and white guilt seem to be confused in this blog post. Many of todays racialists seek to take advantage of white guilt to convince others of their racism. For their own political purposes. Abagonds post is a perfect example. Not racist behavior or thoughts needed, only whiteness.
Whitney on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 13:42:48 I read the blog and a couple comments (so many!) and I just want to respond to the thing about whites living in neighbourhoods with other whites.
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OK if Im looking for a place to live (which I am), I want a safe, clean neighbourhood with shops I like to go to in the near vicinity. Im not going to want an apartment in a part of the city that looks like its run down, where its referred to as the ghetto, and theres absolutely nothing around me (shop-wise) except for a dive bar, an internet cafe, a corner store and a post office. Like where I am now. I dont CARE what color the people are who live in the nice, clean, upscale neighbourhood. If they all happen to be white, fine, if they all happen to be black, fine. I dont care. But for some strange reason, those areas seem to be very white. I wouldnt choose to live there just because everyone around me would be white, Id choose to live there because its a well-kept part of town. Show me the upscale black neighbourhoods and Ill tell you if Ill live there. I hope that makes some sense.
Johnny Boone on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 22:23:50 GOD BLESS YOUR HEART FOR KEEPING IT ALL THE WAY REAL ME BEING A BLACK MAN WHOVE EXPERIENCED RACISM ALL MY LIFE & TO HEAR SOME PEOPLE CLAIM TO NOT BE RACIST & THAT IT DOESNT EXIST IS TOTAL DENIAL & ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHY WERE STILL DEALING WITH THIS SAME ISSUE BECAUSE SOME CANT GET HONEST & THEY ARE SO COMFORTABLE HATING OTHERS FOR JUST BEING. THANK GOD FOR GOOD. HONEST PEOPLE LIKE MR.WISE HE MUST BE A HAPPY PERSON WHO LIKES TO SEE OTHERS
Demerera @Whitney But for some strange reason, those areas seem to be very white.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 22:32:11
Your open comments are refreshing but I urge you to think in terms of your statement above, why is this? Perhaps if you stick around and take a glimpse on the other threads that Abagond has posted and the comments therein, this might give you an unwelcome insight..
Johnny Boone on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 23:28:44 LIKE I WAS SAYING MR.WISE IS OBVIOUSLY A PERSON WHO CAN RELATE TO HUMAN CONDITIONS & A PERSON WHO DOESNT LET COLOR JUSTIFY RIGHTEOUSNESS ,WRONG IS WRONG & I HAVE BEEN WRONGED NUMEROUS TIMES AT MANY JOBS & FOR NOTHING INSUBORDINATE,NEVER LATE, I HAVE NEVER CALLED OFF & IVE OFTEN GOTTEN ACCOLADES FOR MY PERFORMANCES YET THEY STILL LET ME GO & KEPT OTHERS WHO DID NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN & TALK WHILE OTHERS WORK THEN THERE SUPPOSED ATTITUDE POLICY THAT DOESNT APPLY TO EVERYBODY SO THERES REALLY NO ORDER UNLESS YOURE WHITE, YEAH.& SOME WONT ACKNOWLEDGE IT BECAUSE IT WILL CLEARLY SHOW HOW RACIST THEY REALLY ARE A EVIL THATS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS & UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT GETS INVOLVED AT THESE PLACES OF BUSINESS & EVALUATE & FINE & CHARGE SOME WITH UNDERMINING THE CONSTITUTION BLACK PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO SUFFER JOB LOSS,&UNFAIR TREATMENT THATS WHY WHEN SOME INSINUATE THAT RACISM DOESNT EXIST ITS REALLY TO HIDE DEEP SEEDED HATRED OR THEYVE. NEVER EXPERIENCED RACISM SO HOW WOULD THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT IT IS?????
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Adeen Danica Mckenzie on Sun 8 Apr 2012 at 00:42:37 @Wondergirl I loved your response. Many people always look down on us Blacks because of the way bad and ignorant Blacks they act and the color of our skin. I am glad that I hav coco brown skin instead of pale vanilla skin. I am proud of my roots and I know that my ancestors came from the Ashanti tribe. @Johnny Boone You have a point. I am a Black teenage girl and I am usually always insulted by others and bullied. The Latina girls(cant stand them) at my bus stop avoid me and make fun of me.The world has a huge problems with Black people, it seems. Alot of Latinos dont like us.A lot of Asians dont like Blacks etc. As a Black person, I dont know what to do.
T on Sun 29 Apr 2012 at 23:49:51 I found this blog post because of an assignment for school. I hesitated in posting because I have a 12 pager to write, but I want to speak up. Not all white people are racist, and also, some black people are racist. Some Asian people are racist. Some- I dont know- other races are racist. The idea that we focus so much on outward appearances is ridiculous. But we do. Its the first thing we see, and people like to define other people. I was working today, sitting with a girl I work with, and a table was leaving and a man commented on the girls sneakers Keep wearing those Nikes; theyll keep you afloat. he said. After he left, she whispered to me He would comment on my Nikes cause hes black. She stood up, and what she said stuck with me. Ive never heard of Nikes and African Americans being related. And only in recent years did I hear of stereotypes like fried chicken and watermelon and koolaid. I think you draw some truthful points, but I also think you are using an umbrella method, and every one does not belong under that umbrella. As it turned out, they gave up some of their advantages, like places at universities, but by and large they became blind. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. To grow up as I did was a thoughtless thing. Not to say I didnt think but that it didnt occur to me for a long time that by chance I couldve been born as any one else in a different kind of situation. The above excerpt from your blog illustrates a consciousness that I dont think truly pervades white Americans. I do not wake up and think Im so glad that slavery was established just so the emancipation proclamation could come and be followed by other racist statutes like Black Codes and Jim Crow Laws. Thank goodness for all of that human suffering so I can wake up today and walk into a convenience store or down my street without suspicion. If we want to beat racism, then we have to consider ourselves equal in the sense that we are all human. We may start out differently and end up differently and exist in different circumstances, but together, were skin, blood, and bones. The color of skin, shape of eyes, or other differentiating features do not change that. Im sorry if you have grown up in a world that has not always treated you like a human. I have felt the same in different ways just by being a woman. I do have mostly white friends, some Asian ones too, and some African American ones who are more just acquaintances. This is not by choice but merely by circumstance. I live in New Hampshire and the majority of the state is white. Someday I hope to
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live in a state with more variety, but at the same time, I am where I am. I cant change that. I can only do what I can with what I have. Same as you. Same as anyone. We are just people, regardless of our outward appearances.
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Why Whites Are Blind To Their Racism

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Why whites are blind to their racism | Abagond