Beruflich Dokumente
Kultur Dokumente
Edward Patrick, Plaintiff, VS. Cleveland Scene Publishing, LLC, et al., Defendants.
) )
CASE NO. 0 5 - ~ ~ - 2 7 9 j
1
)
Videotaped deposition of Michael Bowen, a witness herein, called by the Defendant for cross-examination pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, taken before Susan Sharp, videographer, and Renee Rogers, Registered Professional Reporter and notary public within and for the State of Ohio, at the offices of Robbins, Kelly, Patterson
&
Tucker, LPA,
7 West Seventh Street, Suite 1400, Cincinnati, Ohio, on Wednesday, February 7, 2007, commencing at
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 2
1 APPEARANCES :
2 On b e h a l f o f t h e P l a i n t i f f : 3
4
6
7 8
LPA
9
1 0 On b e h a l f of t h e D e f e n d a n t s :
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15 A l s o P r e s e n t : 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
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Edward P a t r i c k
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S T I P U L A T I O N S
&en
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Page 4
1
I N D E X
2
3 Witness
Cross
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4 MICHAEL BOWEN
B y Mr. Zirm By M r .
J . Blankenship
Recross
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214
Marked
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14 Defendants' Exhibit Number 3 15 Defendants' Exhibit Number 4 16 Defendants' Exhibit Number 5 17 Defendants' Exhibit Number 6 18 Defendants' Exhibit Number 7 19 Defendants' Exhibit Number 8 20 Defendants' Exhibit Number 9 21 Defendants' Exhibit Number 10
22 Defendants' Exhibit Number 11
75
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Page 5
1
2 Defendants' Exhibit Number 14
5 Defendants' Exhibit Number 17 6 Defendants' Exhibit Number 18 7 Defendants' Exhibit Number 19 8 Defendants' Exhibit Number 20
11 Defendants' Exhibit Number 23 12 Defendants' Exhibit Number 24 13 Defendants' Exhibit Number 2 5 14 Defendants' Exhibit Number 26 15 Defendants' Exhibit Number 27 16 Defendants' Exhibit Number 28 17 Defendants' Exhibit Number 29 18 Defendants' Exhibit Number 30 19 Defendants' Exhibit Number 31
20 Defendants' Exhibit Number 32
15-cv-02791-LW
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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lo 11 residence address?
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Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
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Case 1 105-cv-02791-LW
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We monitor that.
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18 urology.
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Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
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Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 22
1 the operating room until April 1 of '82, and I
7
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Page 23 1
A
People
Back in those days they used to have 10 what was called a flexible rotating internship. 11 These were for physicians who would come in and they 12 would get a month rotation in surgery, a month 13 rotation in orthopaedics, a month in internal 14 medicine. 15 It was flexible, just what it said. So
16 it wasn't an -- it wasn't -- it was still within the 17 Department of Surgery surgical residency program. 18
21
22
No.
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Page 24
1
Q
A
2
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5 such a program?
6
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Oh, absolutely.
1 9 should be "residency," at least based on your 2 0 understanding of how you just defined it -21
Oh, absolutely.
23
24
--
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Page 25
1 understand this business.
2 3 you do.
Right.
Oh, that's okay, and I'm not either. At any time in any of your positions at
11 administrative position at Jewish Hospital, is that 12 when you first became involved in responding to 13 verification requests for residents?
--
they were
And how were they organized? Alphabetically. Alphabetically by resident? Yes. Per
--
just alphabetically by
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Page 26
1 name.
2
3 medicine and --
NO, sir.
-6
7
surgery?
8 administrative
9
10
--
No.
Q
A
--
director?
12
13 the same? 14
Absolutely.
15 change it.
16 17
Q
18
Q
A
From the beginning, from 1991? Yes. Because what we -- the way it was
19
24 many verifications.
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Page 27
1 2
5 verifications?
6
Q
A
--
they would
--
1 5 verifications to do.
16
A
Q
No.
I did.
21
22 just to see where it was coming from, whom it was 23 for, because I had been there for a long time and 24 many times I might even know the person.
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Page 28
1
-- they
6
7
Q
A
Would you respond to verbal requests? No. I would pretty much require we
Q
A
Q
A
--
16
Q
A
-- waiver?
Waiver of liability with the applicant
17
18
21 request from the institution, or would you respond to 22 a verbal request if you got the waiver?
23
No.
-- for
--
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Page 29 1 wanted me to release your information, I would want 2 your signature on the waiver okay'ing me to give that
3 information to the next party.
4 5
Q
A
Okay.
9 requesting verification
--
10 11 12
13
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A
Q
14
I just
-- I
19 that says I can release, you know, the names, the 20 dates and the -- because, again, my policy is I'm -21 all I'm releasing is dates and attendance. 22 nothing else to release. We have
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Page 30
1 all we have.
2 3 through
And 1'11 be
--
we'll be going
-Sure.
-- a number of verifications.
And I've
6 seen on a number of them sometimes the institution 7 will request questions about character
8
--
Correct.
-Q
or qualities and --
10
11
Typically not.
18
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Page 31 No.
-- up to do that?
No. 4 Okay. You would refer to the file,
6 7
8 prepare a --
Yes. 10 11 12 myself. 13
Okay.
14 to find in a resident's file? Well, it can vary, because it depends 16 on how long ago the resident was at the institution, 17 and, again, how many years they spent with us at the 18 institution. 19 A surgical resident who may have been
20 there for a total of five years certainly would have 21 a bigger file than an intern or somebody who was 22 there only for a year. 23
Okay.
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Page 32
1 file?
2
3
Not -- not
--
Sure.
7 if it didn't
--
11 mean, I'm basically the -- you know, I'm the last 12 person. 13 So, yeah, I would like to see the
And also letters of reference that were 20 done while that resident was there at the hospital
21 by
--
--
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
I
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Page 33
1 evaluations done of the resident while he was a
Correct.
Well, it
--
it's changed.
Back then
11
Q
A
12
--
--
it was
17 then
20
21 clear --
Okay.
22
Correct.
--
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Page 34 Yeah.
-- eighties?
Yeah. Okay. 5 6
8 did you typically find with regard to evaluations, 9 the frequency of written evaluations? 10 A It almost seemed like when they did --
11 they finished their rotations, perhaps, their month, 12 if they were on orthopaedics maybe the orthopaedic 13 surgeon would send a note in, handwritten note. 14 15
16
Okay. But, again, it would be variant. Correct. Some I would see more frequently than
17 18 others. 19
21 about it.
22
24 followed?
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Page 35 Not necessarily. Okay. Not necessarily. Would you find that today for the more
5 recent resident? 6
Probably not.
We don't
--
we don't have
You would
--
Okay.
19
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Page 36 1 2 A
I do not.
Do you know, if we go talk again about
6 7
8
A
Q
I wouldn' t know.
And that training certificate, would
11
20
Okay.
23
24
-- residency program?
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4 need them.
9 aware of it.
10
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You didn't put it in the file? No. Did you see them in the file when you
12
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No.
15 really didn't.
Okay.
21
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 39
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Yes. Okay.
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or back then? Let's start with back then. Back then, not necessarily. I can't
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 40
1 remember seeing many, if they did.
2
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--
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They do.
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 41
1 certificates were printed outside of the 2 organization.
They were brought back in. We would get the signatures of the
Yeah.
10 these nice-looking little documents, and we would 11 bring them back and present them to them. 12 print them inside.
We didn't
13
14 responsibility for actually getting the signature of, 15 say, the director of surgery?
16
17 18 them? 19
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
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Page 42 1
2
A
No knowledge.
You might. Okay. You might. Like payroll stuff? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You might,
11 12
Q
A
But in the matter of course did you? Some I did, some I didn't. Again, that
14 verification to prove that somebody was there, I 15 would like to -- I would like to see things that, 16 like I said, a signed contract, employment -- pay 17 stubs or something from the benefits office, that 18 would do it.
19
Some might have it, some might not. So there's a separate what you call a
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I 1 I I
1
1
4 of those things.
No.
-A
12
within Jewish?
I mean, most
everything I needed was pretty much in their files. Okay. When we moved from downtown out to
15 Kenwood, there were files that -- old files, very, 16 very old, of physicians that I believe were left in
1 7 the Alliance Business Center, but I really very
1 9 X-rays.
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Downtown facility. And then what was the setup in Kenwood? Well, we had two. When we first moved
Q
A
--
Q
A
Okay.
12
Urn-hrnrn, They were locked. And still maintained the same way by --
14 alphabetically by resident? 15
16
Probably
--
21 together.
I could prove
24 that.
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2 my time, I would take the file, I would look to see 3 if there was payroll information, letters of
4 reference, anything that I could do to kind of really
5 verify that that person was actually there, any kind 6 of documentation that we could find.
7
11 12 documentation.
17 contract? 18 19 that's
20
21
-Q
A
Nothing else. I would be hard pressed to do that. Was it signed? Did the person
I
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23 actually attend?
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 4 6
Okay.
-- at that time?
NO, sir, I did not. The other thing I wanted to tell you,
13 Mr. Bowen, is whenever you want to take a break, let
14 me know.
I
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So you may have? I don't think I ever did. Who is Pam King? Pam? Pam is the resident coordinator
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 47
1 for internal medicine.
2 3
Q
A
That's her current position? That's correct. And I believe her name
7 8 Jewish? 9
11 supervisor her?
12
No.
She maintained
15 internal medicine residency stuff and I did surgery, 16 so we would work collegially. 17
Okay.
That's correct,
Q
A
-- requests?
Um-hmrn .
22
23 verifications.
24
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 48
1
Okay . They provided a lot of records. MR. ZIRM: Jeff, I assume that the last
batch of documents we sent you we said we weren't sending you the Jewish Hospital records. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: already had them. MR. ZIRM: them. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: Right. You Because you already had Because I
I don't
think they were Bates stamped yet, so I can't verify that we got every page. There's so many volumes. MR. ZIRM: Right. But we did
MR. ZIRM:
Right.
-- that you
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Well, obviously I saw it back in 1995. Let me -- the first question I wanted
Is that your
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 50
1 the verification
I see that. What did that mean to you? Nothing. Is that a term of art? No. Okay. Because as I tried to explain to you
14 this morning, people use terms very interchangeably
15 in this business.
Okay. A Because I
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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3 for.
Okay. Okay. So when I got this --
12 13
Okay.
16
17 18
19
Q
A
Dr. Edward --
20
21 22
Q
A
It's pretty good. And I noticed that you often would It wasn't
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 52 Yeah.
I --
--
a formal, d i c t a t e d l e t t e r ?
I t ' s t o o much t i m e .
Q
A
Okay.
I d o a l l my own s t u f f by m y s e l f .
7
8
Okay.
You d i d n ' t h a v e a s e c r e t a r y a t
9 your d i s p o s a l ?
10
A
I ' m pretty
I come
11 much
-- I d o my own t h i n g s b e c a u s e , a g a i n , i f
1 2 t o a n i n c i d e n t l i k e t h i s , I'm t h e o n e r e s p o n s i b l e f o r
13 t h e s e t h i n g s .
14
Okay.
Dr.
--
l e t me j u s t p r e f a c e t h i s
1 5 by s a y i n g t h a t t h i s
--
b a s e d on t h e r e c o r d s w e
1 6 r e c e i v e d from J e w i s h H o s p i t a l , t h i s was t h e f i r s t
--
17 c h r o n o l o g i c a l l y t h e f i r s t v e r i f i c a t i o n t h a t I could
1 8 f i n d t h a t you 19
A
-Okay.
20 21
Q
A
---
s i g n e d o f f on
--
Okay. i n 1995.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 53
1 any between '91 and '95 because you didn't get any 2 regarding Dr. Patrick?
Okay.
--
--
Sure.
10 11
And if I --
Q
A
12 that I did. 13 14
Q
A
Okay.
--
served?
Served.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
--
internship?
22 23
Urn-hmm
--
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 54 of 218
Again,
No.
Q
A
-- referred to?
(Shakes head. ) As you sit here today do you recall
11
12 what
--
Correct. Okay.
That's fair.
17 recall what you found in Dr. Patrick's file when you 18 checked?
19
20 There
21 in there.
22 and as I saw more than one for Dr. Patrick, I wanted 23 to make sure that I had the exact information, that 24 it was factual and correct.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 55
1
So I went through the chart just for my Is this what we've got, do we have
1 I
Because, again, it's like anything else, you're And I would not
To
8 this day I can't remember, but there was some -- when 9 he was paid, may have been some -- that he had
10 rotated in 11
--
12 indicated on? 13 14 15
No. Okay.
Q
A
18 Patrick's did have it, where it would say he may be 19 doing orthopaedics, he might be doing internal
Okay.
...--
-.----.
-____..
__
_ _ l m l i P i _ : l i =
_ . .
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 56
1
3 a n d you w o u l d n ' t n e c e s s a r i l y g o u p t o t h e f i f t h f l o o r
4 a n d g e t t h e f i l e a n d l o o k a t i t b e c a u s e you h a d
5 become f a m i l i a r w i t h h i s f i l e ?
No.
No.
I s t i l l would -- I would
Because, a g a i n , I wanted t o
8 h a v e i t b e f o r e m e , b e c a u s e I l o o k e d a t what I h a d
9 written before.
Okay.
11
And would t h a t be i n t h e f i l e ?
I would h o p e e v e r y -- e v e r y t h i n g t h a t I
1 2 d o f o r a n y f i l e I make a c o p y a n d p u t i t i n t h e f i l e .
13
14 15
Q
A
And d o you p e r s o n a l l y do t h a t -I d o --
-- y o u r s e l f ?
--
Okay.
I m a k e my own c o p i e s .
And p u t i t i n t h e f i l e ?
Put i t i n t h e f i l e , hand d e l i v e r t h e
2 1 f i l e where I g o t i t .
Nobody d o e s i t f o r m e .
I ' m not
22 -- I d o n ' t h a v e t h a t l u x u r y . 23
Okay.
Is t h e r e a -- d i d a n y o n e e l s e
24 h a v e t h e key t o t h a t --
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 57
A
I believe Pam
-I
Q
A
-- filing -Pam King did. Okay. Was there ever a time where you
No.
The
,
14 file.
15
No.
No.
--
--
There was no need to. Was there ever a time when you
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 58
Because if I -- if
6
7
Q
A
Q
A
Yes.
Okay. Nothing more than that? Huh-uh. Did you ever have a discussion with
14 15
Q
A
18
19 early -- or later in the process that I had done 20 verifications on this particular individual more than
21 once.
22
But it was
It wasn't anything
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 59
4
5
No.
8 apprised of what would go on in the department. 9 the reason I would speak to him about this is
10 because, again, I would get
11 multiple verifications.
And I said, I just want you to know
13 I've done it, this person -- well, I've done it, just
14 so you're aware of it.
Not
--
15 out of concern, just FYI. Because it had been multiple? It had been multiple. But as we all
21 emergency-medicine physicians.
--
Dr. Wright.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 60
1
Dr.
4 Patrick?
Not really.
6 response to be made.
7 information sharing.
11 worked or known Dr. Patrick, I cannot answer any of 12 the above questions.
13 before --
That's correct.
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 61
1 Defendants' Deposition Exhibit Number 3.
Take a
A
Q A
(Peruses document.) Mr. Bowen, can you identify Exhibit 3? I can exhibit -- I've not -- that's not
7
8
Right. Correct. Can you identify what it is? It looks like it's for the Alabama
9 10
14 filled out by a Steven D. Friedmann? Correct. Who was he? Steve was a colleague of mine. He had He
19 was administrative director for surgery, and then got 20 moved up to medical -- you know, director of medical 21 education for the hospital. And Steve had done
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 62
1
3 went to him.
7 was. 8
And that's why he did it. To this day we will see verifications,
11 particularly with the medical boards. 12 They want program director, they want
-- especially
18 would be appropriate for the director of medical 19 education to sign it, because that's what they asked.
20
21 called for the medical education director, you might 22 forward it to them?
23 24
..
4 .
A Q
*
I would.
..
--i
X 2
W A 7
-7
r -
=1
*-
.. . .
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 63
1
Because, again, that's what's required. Okay. They're very specific. And, as I said,
2
3
Q
A
-Probably
--
10
-- occasion?
A Not necessarily, unless I was asked
11
12 to.
13 fifth floor with medicine, so he may have gotten -- I 14 mean, I don't know how it went about, but
-I I
Q
16
Okay.
--
--
Q
A
21 that when the -- when paperwork would come to the 22 hospital, it might be specifically stated director of
23 medical education.
--
I've
Document 121
Page 64 1 2 3
Q
A
Okay. So it may have bypassed me altogether. You see that the dates of the
4 internship or first-year residency given in this 5 document are July 1, 1976 to June 30, 1977?
6
10 11 12
Q
A
Well, it -- it varies.
18
19 same date? 20
Not necessarily.
Again, some
21 residencies start them a few days earlier, some start 22 them on the 1st. Some like them to come in early,
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Page 65
1
4
5
6
7 it?
8
-The 20th of June? The 20th of June. Okay. They get them in, they're interns, we
Q
A
13
14 15
Q
A
Some folks are what's called For various reasons they're coming from
20 off-cycle.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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I
1
Page 66
3
4
Q
A
5 6
I do not know.
Okay. Was that the case the entire
--
you know,
11 obviously if you're a teached institution you get X 12 amount of dollars to train residents, but I can't 13 tell you when that came about or how much. 14
--
16
17
18
19
Correct.
Q
A
--
22
Well, it is currently.
--
and I could be
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 67
1 wrong
--
2 3
--
So they
12 much regulating how many residents, and you're not 13 permitted to have paramatal tracks any more. 14
15
Q
A
16 late nineties.
17
-- he
19 started on September l?
Huh-uh.
21
22
Did you ever ask anybody that question? Huh-uh. Because as I just said before,
They still do
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 68
1 it.
2
3
Q
A
6 different times.
7
8 9
MR. ZIRM:
13
14
15 document? 16 17
Um-hmrn
18 to consist of a verification request and response. 19 I'll ask you again on the second page is that your
20 signature -21
That's correct.
22
23
Q
A
--
Mr. Bowen?
Urn- hmrn
.
. . -.
&
24
-
. -. ..------..
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 69
1 February 7, 1996?
2
3
A
Q
Correct.
And this is a form they provided for
5
6
7
8
Q
A
I see.
I'm sorry.
This is all a
i
9 response?
10
A
Q
A This is your response? Um-hmm . I'm sorry. No. That's I misspoke earlier.
11 12 13 14
Q
A
--
this is
--
obviously I
I
15 didn't hand write this one, but -16 17 A Right. Because, again, I put additional
19
And on the
--
!
!
\
Yes.
--
.-
I _
-.
_-,_ = _
_ _ I _ * ,
-7
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 70 1 internship? 2
3
U r n -hmrn . So again we see that transitional term? Correct. It didn't mean anything to you? Also the dates. You see the wrong dates? I see the wrong dates. Okay. And then your handwriting says
Q
A
11
12 13 14
15
Q
A
.
Is that what it
16
17 says?
18
19
It says yes, for one year completed. Okay. Because he was there for a total of 12
21 months. 22
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 71
1 surgery?
2
3
Um-hmm
5 internship?
6
8
9
Q
A
10 medicine, so.
11
--
Pretty much.
15
16
--
character?
17
18 Center
19
Okay.
-A No.
20 21
Q
A
-No.
Hospital in Chillicothe?
22
No.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 72 of 218
Page 72 1
2 that the request had wrong dates? A 4 5 6 7 No. Okay. It happens today. Okay.
As I said to you earlier, the
Q
A
Q
A
9 information correct.
10 have wrong titles. 11 correct it.
12 consistently inconsistent. 13
Q
A 15
22 involved.
But by the
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 73 of 218
Page 73
1 correct it.
2
8 Has that --
If there is --
--
ever happened?
--
--
18
19
Q
A
I attend
20 what's called the ACGME, Accreditation Council for 21 Graduate Medical. 22 been to They have yearly workshops.
11 in a row.
I've
-- I went to
I haven't been in
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 74 of 218
Actually, no.
4 personally.
5
Q
A
11
12 that.
13
14
15 16 19
Q
A
--
in --
-Q
A
17
18
In labor relations?
Yes. Labor Relations. That was my
19 research project.
20
23
Yes.
24 Pitfall.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 75 of 218
Page 75 1
Okay.
---
--
based on --
10 Deposition Exhibit 5.
I can identify it. What is it? It looks like it's another verification
Q
A
14
Med Chek.
Okay.
20
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 76
1 Hospital?
Yes, sir, she is. Who does this now at Jewish Hospital? I do not know. Do you know who succeeded you when you
3
4
5
6 left? 7
Mary Kirk? Mary Kirk, K-I-R-K. And she left And there's another
I believe
Q
A
15
18
Okay.
21
Q
A
Yes.
Okay.
24
Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
I
I
Document I 21
Filed 0210712008
Page 77 of 21 8
m#@ T:?:
< 2 . . .
..
.-.
'
>.
H
<.'<
-1-
I I
' * a t ' s
Do yog
cwrrift,
.
I I
That's my understanding.
Again, 1
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 78 of 218
Page 78
1 contact with them over the years in this capacity?
2
--
11 12
--
oh, okay.
Same person.
22
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 79 of 218
Page 79 Yeah.
--
1996?
--
No.
I I
I
l8
Right.
So no recollection as to why
21 surmise from it is sometimes people want the 22 verifications quickly, and they will send you
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 80 of 218
Page 80 1 it, but -- and I don't know why I would have done
2 it.
3 can't answer.
5 difference between the two is that the second letter 6 has your
7
8
9 residency program?
10
11 probably
13 here.
So they were probably separate, but asking two So that's why you have two here.
14 different things.
20 Knoxville, Tennessee?
21
NO, sir, I'm not. Now, if you look, I believe the date on
22
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 81 1 2
A
Urn- hmm
Not necessarily.
Again, it can go
--
If somebody is changing
9 request
--
11 places.
12 And there's -- there's no
--
there's no
--
16 unusual.
17
19 verification request.
20
-- not on Dr.
22 They may say, you know, when they were a resident did
23 they have medical ma1 -- what kind of medical
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 82 of 218
No.
10 11
Yeah.
15
16 17
Urn-hmm
18 Tenens, Inc.? 19
Urn- hmm
.
--
Urn-hmrn .
Q
A
-- Locum Tenens?
No, sir. And this one looks like somebody else
-
23 24
P
--
--
_ *
-----
-.
....
. = .
4-
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 83
1 typed this for you?
Yeah.
She
9
10
11 Deposition Exhibit 9.
16
1 7 verification request? 18
19
21 22
A
Q
23 at least part of a form that you may have filled out 24 and sent back?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 84 of 218
Page 84
Urn-
hmm .
Is this your handwriting? That looks like it. Okay. So at least on this page you're
Q
A
11 12
13
Q
A
Correct. And it
--
.
.
21
22
23
Urn-hmm .
Q
A
--
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 85 of 218
Page 85 Okay.
--
--
7
8
Yeah.
--
9
10 to this. 11 12 13 to this.
Yeah.
Q
A
14
15
Q
A
16 case would have been -- if this would have been, 17 let's just say this is all we would have had, I would 18 have signed my name at the bottom --
19
Q
A
Right.
20
--
--
so forth.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 86 of 218
Page 86 1
Okay.
2 discussion, though, what Columbia Northridge Medical 3 Center is stating in the first paragraph of its 4 letter is incorrect, based on what you found in Dr. 5 Patrick's file, correct?
6
10
1 1
18 response?
19 20
A
Q
21 the file? 22 23 24 Correct. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number 10 was marked for identification.)
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 87 1 Q Handing you what I've marked as Could you identify this
Again, it looks like Kentucky Board of 5 Medical Licensure. And this one asks that -- I can
Q
A
Q
10
11 that option.
12 at the time.
13
Okay.
16 that worked in my area that I could get and it was 17 very easy. 18
Okay.
23 verification process is kind of all over the place, 24 and different people require different things.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 88 of 218
Page 88 1
2
Q
A
4 administrators.
5
6
7
Q
A
Okay. Some do, some don't. Is this all your handwriting in the
No.
Q A
Q
A
Okay.
Right.
21 handwriting?
22
Yeah.
23 done by a notary, she would have filled in that 24 part. I filled in my part. That's how that -- she
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 89 of 218
Page 89
1 worked this.
2
Okay.
Okay.
That's not my --
8 9
Q
A
--
31
--
Correct. Okay. Given what I had told them. Okay. This is the first time I've seen
10
11
Q
A
12
Urn- hmm
17
--
in documentation you
22 thing.
23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 90
1
2 are interchangeable. 3
Oh, I can't --
7 8 9
Q
A
I don't know.
No.
This
--
12 times this wouldn't have -- this doesn't really -- it 13 says what it really was. 14 He was there for one year.
Okay.
No.
--
-*. ..-*
-->-->-.
-- ---
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 91 of 218
Page 9 1
1
Not necessarily.
4 anywhere from one to 12 years in residency. And you would label -- typically label
6 a one-year residency that was completed, if that's
9 word "internship" -- an internship done for a year. 10 Again, there were a lot of terms used for the same 11 thing. 12
Okay.
13 sit here today you can't recall why you used that
I
14 term -15
No.
16
17
I don't know.
18
1
I
Surgery.
Um-hrnrn.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 92 of 218
Page 92
1
Q
A
5 6
7
.
It
Q
A
And how did you know that? Because I went back to the file.
8 clearly states the dates that he was there. 9 had 12 months of credit.
So he
Q
11 the 12
--
Most often residents at least get their I mean, that would give you And that's what
13 12 months of training.
And, as I said, some people start So you would like to see that they got 12 And, again, it could be
17 mid-cycle.
18 months of experience.
19 August, you know, through the following July, but as 20 long as it's 12 months. And a lot of times the
22
Isn't that a
--
kind of an
23 accreditation requirement?
The hospital
--
24
Well --
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 93 of 218
Page 93
1
2 length of the
3
-No.
Q
5 A
9 that away.
10
-- months of
13 specialty boards.
14 requirement.
19 completion?
20
21
Back then, I can't answer. How about today? Probably not. You would
Don't know.
Q
A
22
--
or you
24 11 months.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 94 of 218
Page 94
1
Q
A
Okay.
Correct. 10
13 four.
15
Okay.
It's usually stated out in the Um-hmm. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
18 contract.
19
23 to
--
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 95 of 218
Page 95
1 residency request.
2 Kentucky verification
--
Um-hmrn .
6
7
8 letter?
9
No, I can't.
Because I don't --
Q
A
Okay.
No.
Right.
15 others that we'll look at, when they're requesting a 16 verification, will give Dr. Patrick's Social Security
Um-hmrn . Was that significant to you at all? I always like to cross-reference it. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. If I see that, then
Q
A
21
22
Q
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 96 of 218
-- do you
5 6
7
Q
A
--
Not to my knowledge.
-No.
-16
17
a discrepancy?
18
19
Handing you what's been marked as This is a fax again from HKA
23 King?
24
Correct.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 97 of 218
Page 97
1
1 2 the person.
Okay.
Sure.
1 6 Again, as we've said, things will come to their 1 7 office wrongly to internal medicine department, and 1 8 conversely to me in surgery we would get verification 1 9 for somebody who actually had done an internal 2 0 medicine residency.
21
Q
A
22
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 98 of 218
Page 98 1 same?
2
--
yeah.
3 Absolutely.
--
is this a
-- provides?
And it has Dr. Patrick's signature. Okay. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: Ken, are you
-- few
(A brief recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record. We are back on the
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 99
1
2
3
Are you
18
19
I would have.
Okay.
2 0 physician has made application to work with our group 2 1 in the capacity of emergency physician, and states he 2 2 completed his medical residency at your institution 2 3 in June of 1 9 7 6 .
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
-
Document 121
-
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 100 1 what they say, but that's not correct, is that?
2
A
Q
11
Okay.
A
21
22
And let them take it from there. But internally you wouldn't refer
23 to that as
24
--
date --
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 101 1 2 3 4
5
No.
-- would you?
No. (Whereupon, Defendantso Exhibit Number 14 was marked for identification.)
10
12 13
14 to -- well, I guess the first question is on the 15 first two pages, is that your signature at the 16 bottom? 17
18
A
22
23
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
4 will be able to help me out with Dr. Patrick. 5 sent two separate letters for verification. 6
I have
A
Q
10 regarding
--
11 received a rotating internship from your institution 12 which began 1975 through 1976. 13 14 Do you see that?
A
Q
16 see in the first paragraph, second sentence, Ms. 17 Thomas is saying this physician stated he received a 18 special residency in emergency medicine from your 19 institution which began 1976 through 1978? 20 21 A I see that. Okay . So there's kind of two separate
22 -- she's asking you to verify the rotating internship 23 as well as a special emergency medicine residency, 24 correct?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
I
1
Dr. Patrick
10 11
12 this PGY-1 designation? 13 A Correct. What does that mean? We discussed that earlier, postgraduate
A
Q
I cannot tell you why. And, again, you're -- you believe this
20
21 is consist -- entirely consistent with what you've 22 been saying in your past verifications? 23
24
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 104
1 2
First year.
4
5
A
Q
A
Q
My apologies.
That's all right. So let's just get it
11
12
Yes. Then on the second page, again, in your We have no records on file
14 to indicate that Dr. Edward Patrick has received 15 special residency training here in emergency 16 medicine? 17
18
22
23 getting a follow-up call from any of these requesters 24 asking you more information about that?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 105
1 2 A
Objection;
10 as I've indicated prior this morning that many times 11 the verifications weren't always what they appeared 12 to be coming from the verifier 13 sending it to us.
--
or the people
--
I just facts --
Okay.
16 you saw a number of requests asking you to verify an 17 emergency medicine residency that did not occur where 18 that would concern you? 19
Again, I
23
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 106 .
1 correct 2
-A
3
4
Handing you what I've marked as Will you take a moment and
9 verification. 10
11 at the bottom? 12 13
It is.
Okay. And this one is -- your
1
1
14 signature and the letter are both dated March 27, 15 1998 from and to Alliance Community Hospital? 16 17
That's correct.
--
I'm
I
1
--
23 at Jewish Hospital from September 1, 1975 through 24 August 31, 1976, correct?
.
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 107 1
4 information?
5
6
7 conversation other than this letter with anyone at 8 Alliance Community Hospital about Dr. Patrick? 9
11
12
1'11
19 three-page document --
20
I have.
It
24 with EmCare?
1
2
Do you know
8 if that's your handwriting? A 10 It appears, but I can't read it. Okay. I was going to ask if you would
15
16
Yes. Is that May? Yes. Is that May? You indicate that Dr. Is that your handwriting?
17
18
19
22 23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 109 1 I'm curious as to why you didn't use the exact same 2 term every time you described this flexible 3 internship.
6 resident one, and my understanding of the business 7 it's all the same thing.
Okay.
17 was marked for identification.) 16 You might want to keep Exhibit 16 out This appears to be a
18 letter from you to Ms. Bethann Shares at EmCare dated 19 June 1, 1998. Do you recall whether this accompanied
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 110 1
2
Correct. And then the first time I see you in According to our records, Dr.
3 a verification say:
4 Patrick was felt to have excellent professional 5 ability, moral and ethical standards, character,
11
Okay.
A
(r
19
21 ethical standards and character when you generally 22 did not do that? 23 24 A
I can't answer that today.
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 111
1 referred to?
You say according to our records. That would be the resident file that we
2
3 have
8 writing where this would have come from perhaps -9 and, again, I don't know where this came from in that
1 0 file, was it from Dr. Heimlich or one of his --
That's correct.
16 file. 17
Okay.
18 excellent.
19
20
22 saw?
23
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 112
1
7
8
10 in the file.
Any explanation?
No.
--
I noticed
Okay.
-- I'll
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 113
1
That's correct.
Okay.
6
7 appears.
Mary K. Reinhart.
That's what it
Q
A
And is she still at Jewish? No. Do you know where she works presently? She works in the public relations
10
Q
A
11
18
19
21 from Betsy Johnson Hospital to the director of 22 internship residency program. Do you see that letter
Yes.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 114 1
A
I see it.
Where they say rotating 1975 to 1976, So that is why
7
8
11
12 to be forms that were filled out by Dr. Patrick. 13 What is that indicating to you? 14 Was this something that you typically
15 get with verification requests, kind of a multipage 16 form of different procedures or privileges that are 17 being contemplated? 18 A Sometimes we will get them, sometimes It just varies. Did it have any meaning for you? No. Would you review it with care to see
19 we won't. 20 21
22
A
Q
No.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
3
4 5
6
I don't recall.
Handing you what's been marked as This is a
10
Is that your
16 17
22
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
I
1 unless the requester was asking you about it,
2 correct?
Page 116
8 occasions you have sent verifications that disclaimed 9 emergency medicine residency for Dr. Patrick,
1 0 correct?
11
12
13 Wright that you were getting requests to verify an 14 emergency medicine residency that did not occur?
15 16
17 Jewish Hospital?
21 aware of. Okay. But other than that, no. I think early on today you were -- you
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 117
1 testified that you didn't get that -- strike that.
2
8 any other physician for whom you received more 9 verification requests than Dr. Patrick during those
1 0 years?
Don't know.
Q
A
18 19 20
23 pages.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
4
5
Correct.
10
11 page where it is stated that our records do not 12 indicate that Edward Patrick, M.D. served an 13 emergency medicine residency? 14
15
Correct. Is that your handwriting? Yes, it is. And, again, that's reflected on what
Q
A
16 17
19
21 requests -- if you look at the second page of this 22 document, of Exhibit 20, at the top it has program
23 director emergency medicine, Jewish Hospital, and
Do you
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 119
1 see that?
2
3
5 residency or not?
6
No.
10
Okay.
-- that Dr.
Well, one in the same. Okay. That's what I was going to ask
18 about.
19
20
MR. ZIRM:
Okay.
the record so she can change the videotape. THE WITNESS: Sure. We are off the
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
I
record. The time is 11:31.
(A brief recess was taken.)
Page 120
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record. The time is 11:38. This is tape
Mr. Bowen, I'm handing you what I've This is a On the third page,
10 three-page
--
four-page exhibit.
Correct. Is that your handwriting? Yes. And your signature was notarized by
Correct. 18
19 20
21 verification request from HKA Locum Tenens apparently 22 assisting Dr. Patrick process his Georgia medical
I I
23 board application.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 121
1 request from a third party to submit information to a
A
Q
No.
8 there was a
--
9 you, correct?
10
11
15 resident?
16
A
Q
Because he had done an internship. Although we've seen that you have
17
Correct.
This form
--
again, in some
21 intern.
I asked
I was
Q
A
So based
--
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 122
1 resident.
And in
7 this case they asked for internship, and I was okay 8 with that. Between internship and residency you 10 thought that was a better choice? 11 12
13 14
17
No, sir, I have not. Did you -- you knew Deborah Stevens? She worked for -- as an administrative
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23
24
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 123
1 assistant in the Department of Internal Medicine with
2 Pam King.
3
11 returned. 12
14
No.
17 verifications.
--
I did them
18 all for the Department of Surgery, and everybody knew 19 that I wanted to be the one who did them. 20
21 document?
22
23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
4 division was between internal medicine and surgery, 5 you did the surgical and somebody else did the
6 internal medicine?
7
8
A
Q
11 internal medicine. 12
17
21 other pages
22 Deaconess to Jewish Hospital, and the third, a 23 release form signed by Dr. Patrick. 24
,
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 125
1 page of this letter?
2
3
A
Q
Yes.
1
1
9 correct?
14
15
22 your response?
23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
3
4
8 9 call
12 13
-- was it
Pretty
24 Defendants' Exhibit 2 4 .
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
4 was that?
That is. Is that your handwriting at the bottom? That it is. And in your handwriting it says: Our
13 9-1-75 through 8-31-76, correct? Correct. Is there a reason you would sometimes 16 put flexible intern in quotes? No reason for it.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 128
1
Okay.
It is.
5
Now, this one has attention Mike Bowen, Many of them just come to
6 Department of Surgery.
Do
10 11
No. Do you know George M. Chastain, M. D.? No. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
Q
A
16
17
18
22
23
Yes.
I see it.
4
Q
Was there a
10
11 signed this on
-During 2001?
12 13
A
Q
-- July 2, 2001.
No, there was not. Okay. Did that cause you concern when
A 15
17 Jewish Hospital? 18
No.
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
programs between University of Cincinnati and Jewish Hospital that occurred in the seventies, eighties, nineties?
A
wrong, late
--
there had been some thought that the Department of Surgery at Jewish Hospital would be working a little bit more collegially with the Department of Surgery at the University of Cincinnati. We would be sending residents -- some of their residents would come over and work at the Jewish Hospital, some of our residents would go to the University and work. And, in fact, they did.
And they did that up until about 1998 until Dr. Ronald Fegelman died unexpectedly. After his death, Jewish Hospital chose to maintain their independent residency. the only thing I was aware of. And that's
If it was
Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 0210712008
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 132 Okay. Yes. And you're using the term "PGY-1 4 flexible resident," as we've discussed before in this
5 one, correct?
6 7
A
Q
Q
A
I see.
19 20
Is that
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 133
1 your signature?
Correct. Do you recall this letter? Only from the fact that I wrote it.
5 2001.
6
16
17 exhibit, correct? 18 19
No.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 134
1 response.
I !
2
3
Q
A
i
I
When I
Q
A
Okay. And that form is sent to us. Okay. And if you saw a form like this,
!
16
That s correct.
I
21 number of verifications you've gotten, you know by 22 this point that Dr. Patrick
-- or at least some
i
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
- -
Filed 02/07/2008
-
8
9
Correct.
Q
A
17 sent to Rhonda Regan at Vista Staffing Solutions in 18 Salt Lake City on September 25, 2001.
19 signature?
20
Is that your
22
23 time ago.
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 136
1 in your letter that you have in the last couple 2 exhibits regarding the flexible resident one and the
5 exhibit?
6
8 to that request. 9
14 maintained them, you know, we see a number of these 15 documents have your response, the request, Dr. 16 Patrick's release, sometimes a delineation form. 17
23 my routine.
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 137
1 how big was Dr. Patrick's resident file?
And by that
3 inside of it?
7 folder?
10 such as that.
11
Q
A
12
13 file
--
Okay.
16
It would fit
17 in to one of those.
18
No.
23
24
Q
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 138 (A discussion was held off the record.) (Whereupon, Defendantsf Exhibit Number 29 was marked for identification.)
Q
5 29.
6 Hospital.
12 Dr. Heimlich.
13 able to find.
14
15 statement?
16 17 18
No.
Q
A
No.
Do you recall ever having a
19
22
23
1
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 139
1
Handing you what I've marked as 1'11 ask you if you can
It appears to be a verification.
Why do you say that? Because my signature is not on it. Okay. And it looks to me like there will be
11
Okay.
14
15 verification on this page, 1 (b) -- (a) asks for date 16 and type of residency, and (b) says successfully 17 completed, yes or no.
18 there.
Why is that?
A
19
22
Okay.
23 correctly, you say he was here for only one year? Correct.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 140
1
No,
5
6
Q
A
Okay.
-- of training.
Okay. So you're not sure why you put
No.
Correct.
20
Q
A
And is that your signature on page two? Yes. And you appear to have completed this
5
6
11 this before, but when was that transition from Dr. 12 Wright? 13
14 as chairman -- I'm going to have to think about the 15 dates. 16 2002. 17 18 It was some time I believe in the fall of
Q
A
Okay.
Yeah.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 142
1 he was in about May, June somewhere.
Okay.
3 with Dr. Fegelman about the number of verification 4 requests you were getting for Dr. Patrick?
5
6
7 Dr. Fegelman about the number of requesters that were 8 asking about Dr. Patrick's participation in an 9 emergency medicine residency at Jewish Hospital? 10 11
A
Q
A Q
17 resident? 18
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 143 1
A
This one appears to be from a Jim Dear Mr. Bowen, per our
11
12 flexible resident one in general surgery here at 13 Jewish Hospital from September 1, 1975 through August 14 31, 1976, signed by me. 15
19 day that you received this letter? Correct. Do you know anything about Jim Bentley?
22
I do not.
Would you have expected that he would
23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 144
1 you would have responded to this?
Yes.
And that's
4 documentation.
5
6
7
8
10 additional correspondence from Jim Bentley dated July 11 15, and the second one dated July 16. 12
16
18
19 this organization.
Signed, Mike B.
22 information regarding the employment dates and job 23 titles of Dr. Heimlich, correct?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 145
1
--
that
11
On occasion I would receive something I didnlt think this was too far off,
12 like that.
16
17 there.
And this was asking about him, was he And I did not have any problems giving that
Well, I wouldn't have had the That's just it. A lot of this, again,
22 information.
I don't have
24 that information.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 146 1 physician, not a resident, it would go to the medical 2 staff office.
Okay.
7 information. And, again, it was asking about him, 8 and what I gave, I gave him nothing because we didn't
9 have anything.
10 11 12 13 Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number 34 was marked for identification.)
17 Hospital. 18
Do you know who Jackie was or is? That would be Jackie Tribble, who was
19 administrative assistant. 20
Okay.
Q
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 147
1
That would be correct. And this one -- have you ever seen this
5 document before?
First time I've seen it. And you see on page two that the
8 response was
9 Harris?
10 11
13
He
19 legal counsel? 20 21
If he did, I'm not aware. Do you see right above his signature The
24 medicine program?
Page 148
1 had been verifying over the years. 2
4 that mean?
5
6
Don1t know.
Okay.
11 clinical designation? 12
13 clinical responsibilities on the floors, in the 14 operating room, taking care of patients. 15
16 completed a doctor has the ability, then, to take 17 care of patients, be on the floor?
Is that -- am I
Q
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
I don't know.
Was there a time before you left Jewish
10
11
Q
A
12
14 the dates.
15 have been in January before I left. 16 The reason was, was that I was
20
21 to him in a secure
22 these verifications would continue to come through, 23 because it was uncertain when I left Jewish who
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 150
1 verifications.
I didn't
Q
A
10
1 1 Harris?
12
13
16
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 151
1 accuracy of his actually completing this residency?
2
3
Reporters?
Not to my knowledge.
I do recall some
11
13 raised? 14 15
No.
17
18
No.
(A discussion was held off the record.)
19
21
1 24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 152
1 employment to house staff at the Jewish Hospital that 2 was completed by Dr. Patrick.
Q
A
Have you seen this document before? I can't say that I have. You don't recall that this was in his
4
5
6 residency file?
7
If it was, I've
Okay.
12 appointment to house staff, and it -- there could be 13 very well in other resident files. 14 there I've just not seen them. 15
If they were
Okay.
17
18
19
If
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 153
1 document, Mr. Bowen?
2
7
8 9
Q
A
Have you
19
22
--
s-.<-
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 154
1
2
4 resident file?
5
6
8
9
I dontt recall.
17
Okay.
22
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 155
1
I do.
Do you know whether you've ever seen a
6 signed copy of this document?
13 Having seen this before somewhere in that file, I 14 could see that it was a true rotating internship.
15
Q
A
16
Okay.
Under
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 156
1 that says:
6 program?
7
A
10
A
Q
11
12
13
A
Q
I do.
Did you cross paths at Jewish Hospital Were you there at the same time? Yes. Is he still at Jewish Hospital?
14 with him?
15
16
17
I d o n u t believe so.
Was he still there when you left? No. Did you ever have a conversation with Dr. Margolin about Dr. Patrick?
18
19
20
21
22
23
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
4
5
6
Handing you what I've marked as Mr. Bowen, have you ever
I believe I have.
Was this in Dr. Patrick's resident
10
11 file?
12
13
I believe it was.
And is this the certificate that you
16
Q
A
I understand.
What we do today, so. This is a
21
22
Q
A
Right.
24
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 158
1 like this is something that you generally saw in
2 residents' files?
3
Okay.
8 mid-seventies?
A
10 it
--
13 Hospital years later contacted you and asked for a 14 copy from his file.
15
If it was there.
16
Okay.
17 that?
18
19
Q
A
' 24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 159
1 file so people can see that we have done that at
2 their request.
3
-- what had
10
11 else. 12
I don't know.
Okay.
13 like a prelude.
14 about the article that's the subject of this lawsuit 15 and your contacts with Tom Francis, the reporter 16 who's a defendant in this case. 17
19
I don't remember if
--
I believe the
20 first time I spoke to him he called my office I 21 believe after I had left Jewish Hospital.
I want to
I don't remember.
Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
Document I 21
Filed 0210712008
Okay.
If memory sexvas me r i g h t ,
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5
6
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,
Correct.
t l
A
Okay.
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13
14
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Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
Document I 21
Filed 0210712008
Page 161
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11
16
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17
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22
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Q
I
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 162
1 Francis would be calling you before he called?
2
4 with him?
5
6
No. Did you at all consider -- well, let me So you had left Jewish Hospital, you
10 11
12 correct.
13
Okay.
--
--
17
18 19
No.
20
23
If there was, I wasn't aware of it. Okay. So you had no problem talking to
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 163
1 Mr. Francis?
2
No.
4 consistent.
5 I wasn't going to do
6 going to be truthful.
--
-- same comment.
15
--
This is how it is. Did you sense that he was getting upset
18
19 with you?
No.
21 more upset with him because he wasn't listening to 22 what I was trying to tell him. 23
1 24 with Mr.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
4 thing?
Absolutely.
7 morning.
8
Did you
--
12
14
19
2 2 was more pointed to him trying to get him to 2 3 understand about residencies, how they work.
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 1 6 5
1
5 perfectly acceptable.
6
8 in to emergency medicine departments in small towns, 9 I'm sure you will find physicians who are not board
10 certified in emergency medicine.
11
12 to get him to understand that someone could actually 13 go through a residency and then go work in an
19
I kind of
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 166
1 resident education, the process.
So I didn't --
6 at Jewish.
Q
A
Okay. Pretty much what I have said all along. Do you recall any other questions that
10
12 Patrick?
13
No.
18 time based on a lot of these verification requests 19 that some people seemed to believe or had been asking
20 you about Dr. Patrick and an emergency medicine 21 residency?
22
Right.
24 asking for.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1 especially residencies and especially emergency
--
13 like some of this to be off the record, or I'll just 14 talk to you off the record?
15
16
20
24
I don't recall.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 168
7 about it.
Okay.
Okay.
A
Q
13 Cleveland Scene?
14 15
20 correctly.
21
22
23 Heimlich had done as far as some of his -- the 24 Heimlich maneuver and things of that nature.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Okay.
D o you r e c a l l him e v e r t e l l i n g
2 you t h a t h e was w o r k i n g on a s t o r y a b o u t D r . P a t r i c k ? 3
A
I c a n ' t s a y t h a t h e s a i d h e was w o r k i n g
4 on a s t o r y .
H e wanted i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t D r . Okay.
Patrick.
D i d h e a s k you a n y t h i n g a b o u t
6 D r . Heimlich? 7
8
A
Not t o my knowledge.
1'11 show you t h e a r t i c l e i n a m i n u t e ,
It
Did you
--
when d i d you
12
13 r e a d t h e a r t i c l e a b o u t D r .
P a t r i c k t h a t Tom F r a n c i s
1 4 wrote?
15 16 one
You may h a v e t o h e l p m e .
Was t h a t t h e
I d i d read
-- I
g u e s s t h e r e was a n a r t i c l e
--
17 t h a t , b u t I t h i n k I h a v e r e a d -18
19
Q
A
20 t h i n k I ' v e s e e n them a l l . 21
Okay.
One p r i m a r i l y a b o u t D r . H e i m l i c h P a t r i c k --
22 and one p r i m a r i l y a b o u t D r .
23
24
I believe t h a t ' s
--
--
d o you r e c a l l ?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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2
A
3 the one about Dr. Heimlich before you saw the one 4 about Dr. Patrick?
8 articles?
I don't remember
Q A
Okay.
I don't know.
After talking to Mr. Francis but before
16 the articles came out, did you talk with any of your
11
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1
2 Surgeons?
Correct. Okay. No. So you let him know that you had talked
Q
A
7 to a reporter?
8 9
13 Heimlich.
14 repeatedly, yeah, he was there, we can prove it. 15 And, again, I indicated, you know,
16 here's -- you know, here's what residents do, here's 17 how emergency medicine works, and pretty much tried 18 to give him the information that I had given to the
19 reporter.
20
21 was after your first conversation with Mr. Francis? 22 Second? 23 In between?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 172
1 said, just to let you know I've spoken to this
7
8
No. How about when the article came out -Is it your recollection
A
Q
I believe so.
Okay. And I'm talking about the When that came --
14 when you read that article for the first time, did 15 you -- who did you talk to about it, if anyone? 16 I think that I spoke with Steve
Q
A
20 again. 21
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1
Q
A
Right.
-- this file.
6
7 said.
11 about your article -- the article or your 12 conversation with Mr. Francis? 13
14
18
--
--
pretty much
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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2 a g a i n a f t e r t h e a r t i c l e came o u t ?
I t h i n k I l e t him know when i t came
4 out.
5 may w a n t t o l o o k a t i t .
7 t h e article?
8
9
No.
Did you g e t a n y o t h e r r e a c t i o n when t h e Anybody c a l l you a n d s a y I saw you Patrick?
1 0 a r t i c l e came o u t ?
11 were q u o t e d i n t h i s a r t i c l e a b o u t D r .
12 1 3 from
I want t o s a y t h a t I r e c e i v e d a c a l l
--
15 16 out. 17
J u s t t o s a y , hey, t h e r e ' s a n a r t i c l e
D o you remember h e r s a y i n g a n y t h i n g
18 e l s e ?
19 20 No.
21 h e r about t h e a r t i c l e ?
22 23
24 S u r g e o n s ?
Nothing p a r t i c u l a r .
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 1;
1
2
4 conversation at work?
5
8 9
Not really. Did you have any conversations with Is that the correct
--
11 name? 12
13
Correct.
Did you have any conversations with her
15 or the article?
16
No.
Q
A
Oh, okay. I had to let her know that. Have you talked to anybody else that And I'm thinking of Dr.
19
20
No.
24
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Case 1 :05-cv-02791-LW
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 177
A mentor?
Mentor, exactly. Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number
38 was marked for identification.)
Probably when it came out. You did not read it in preparation for
1 15 this deposition?
Not really.
I1
t
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 178 1
4 physician.
5
6
.
Before hiring a physician a
It says:
At Jewish
8 Hospital, Mike Bowen handled verification requests 9 relating to residencies, and he soon learned of Ed
16 17
Q
A
19 20
Q
A
Okay.
It says related to residencies.
No.
21 That is a fallacy. 22
Okay.
23 residencies?
24
Surgical residents.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Okay.
5 Edward Patrick
6 means.
Okay.
I don't know what it means. Okay. In my role I learned of a lot of And, yes, I learned
11
12
Q
A
Okay.
1 6 mid-1990s, Bowen had accumulated a massive file of 1 7 verification requests for Patrick. 18
1 9 is accurate, or inaccurate? 20
21
22
23
Q
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 180
I'm not even sure I would have It was a file. Didn't you have
3 commented on it.
Okay.
--
Okay.
10 told him that you had done more for Dr. Patrick than 11 any other physician?
12
Probably not.
MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: MR. ZIRM:
13
14 15
Objection.
Okay.
-- that's
22 inaccurate.
23
Okay.
Who is
--
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
2 that?
3
4
-- and
In my business if you
11
12
13 is 14
-A
In my business if you see something That is
17
Okay.
Correct. And then the second part? That -- I wouldn't say that something There's nothing to amiss because I verify
Q
A
21
22 is amiss.
24
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 182
1 scientist to figure out.
12 received requests from hospitals around the nation 13 asking about Patrick's credentials.
14
15 an emergency residency was false -- no such program 16 had ever existed at Jewish
17 residency anyway.
18
Well, there's a number of sentences in Tell me what you believe is accurate and
19 there.
20 what's inaccurate.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 183
2
3 inaccurate?
11
8 open-ended.
9
Q
A
10
Okay. This is not about his credentials. Okay. Bowen was worried that Patrick's 17 emergency residency was false.
I wouldn't -- no.
19 false.
24
Q
.
Okay.
-Cz_-:iil
So that's accurate?
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 184
1
Right.
2 anyway.
3
-- I did
Q
A
Q
From my
15 Bowen.
16
That's -Correct.
17 18
-- accurate?
Yet he admits he knew nothing about
19 what Patrick was actually doing there, and he never 20 alerted hospitals that were considering hiring 21 Patrick about this fact. Is that accurate? Inaccurate. What's inaccurate?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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1
3 rotating internship.
4
5
--
whether
11
12
15 internship?
16
The documents verified that. Okay. And then the next part says:
17
Is that accurate, or inaccurate? A That's false. Okay. What's false about that?
Q
A
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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So I just think
Okay.
Objection to
8 9
12
Q
A
Q
Okay. That's my job, and we did it. Okay. And if there was something that
17 the hospital was asking about, that based on your 18 review of the file you knew was inaccurate, you did 19 not believe it was your job to alert the hospital
2 2 requested.
It didn't exist.
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Okay.
A
Q
I think that's inaccurate. You think it's inaccurate? I don't think I said it. Okay. Do you recall using the word
9 "policeman" at all when you spoke to Bowen 10 sorry -- when you spoke to Francis? 11 12 A
--
I'm
14
18
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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4
5
So before the articles came out you had 11 never mentioned Patrick's name to anyone at the Ohio
12 State Medical Board?
13
A
Q
14
15 had?
16
17
18 matter.
20
Were you
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
Page 189 the statement itself is true? MR. ZIRM: Well, let me clarify. All right.
5 matter.
6
You didn't -- before the article you're me you didn't mention Patrick to the Ohio
No.
The medical board does their due diligence That's my assumption. So that if the Ohio
I see.
Okay.
23 State Medical Board granted the license, that's good 24 enough for you?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 1 9 0
1
4
5
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, it's --
--
1 7 did you make any statements about the statements in 1 8 the article attributed to you to Mr. Dilling? 19
2 0 this article, and wanted you to be aware that it's 2 1 out, you may want to review this.
22
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 1 9 1
1 the article.
Not particularly. And what did Mr. Dilling say to you? He said that he would take a look at
5
6
Q
A
8 time.
9
11
12
--
--
No.
Q
A
21 executive director.
22
Q
A
23
24 manner.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 192 1
Q
Okay.
5
6
8 anyone about either of your conversations with Mr. 9 Francis or the article?
10
11 statement -- the deposition you're going to show me, 12 I spoke to I believe Dr. Patrick's counsel. 13 14 39. 15
16
Okay.
Good segue.
Q
A
17
18 in March 2006.
19
And you recall signing this affidavit? Correct. And this affidavit is accurate and true
20 21
23
24 it is accurate.
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Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 9 3
1
During our
Was that the conversation you testified 10 to about earlier where you felt he wasn't 11 understanding you or hearing what you were saying? 12
13
A
Q
14 this:
A
Q
A
Correct. On more than -- on multiple occasions? Correct. Didn't it seem -- so it must not have
21 seemed unusual or surprising to you that a reporter 22 might be asking about an emergency medicine residency 23 for Dr. Patrick, was it? 24
No.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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1
That's correct. Did you feel he was confronting you? Yes. And what particular issue do you feel
5
6
7
Q
A
10 process of how an emergency-medicine physician would 11 get their job without a residency. 12
13
--
Q
16
17
I see.
I was very specific about how this
19
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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1 your voice with him as a sign that you were getting
2 upset?
3
8
9
I'm surprised I didn't say worse. Okay. Upset. Okay. When you said that to him, do So you were very upset?
16
17 again, wanting information, don't understand it. 18 got belligerent about it. 19
Okay.
No.
22
Q
Okay.
23 himself unprofessionally?
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 196 In what ways? Again, it was my feeling that when you
3 speak to somebody -- and I think I'm an expert in
4 this field.
8 back by it.
9 10 A
13 by that. 14
15 to write.
16
Okay.
17 trying to put
in your mouth?
I think he was trying to tell me that
18
21
22
Q
A
Okay. And was he truly at Jewish Hospital. Okay. You say Dr. Patrick -- the last
23
24 paragraph:
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 1 9 7
The residency
8 body.
9 the ACGME
.
And how do you know that?
10
I mean, how
--
again, I You
18 time.
19
Okay.
--
That s correct.
-- and accredited?
Yeah. This is one of the older
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 198
1 surgical residencies in the country, 1933.
Okay.
5
6
A
(1!
--
A
Q
--
Objection to
23 this statement
--
24
Correct.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 199
-3
in your affidavit?
Correct.
A11 right.
I could not verify that. And you never saw any evidence in
11
16
17
18
19
be deferring to you. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: off the record? MR. ZIRM: Yes. Please. Do you want to go
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
Filed 02/07/2008
time.
THE WITNESS:
I will be nowhere
I'll try
No.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 201
A
Q
I do not.
Let me call your attention to Exhibit
15 examination.
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1
Q
A
7
8
10 residency?
11
A
--
either he
12 would have gone to the file where we have the files, 13 or asked Pam King to get this file. 14
17 an office.
18
19 know how
--
I don1t
--
20 would have pulled the file. Did he have a key to the cabinet as
I believe he did.
Okay. One more question about that
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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1 document.
2 the word "administrator" at the beginning of the 3 document next to Steven Friedmann's name.
Do you see
4 that?
I do.
Do you
I do see it.
That is actually a mistake, isn't it? I would say so. He was not the administrator, was he,
13 at that time?
14
He was -- he
15 should have 16
-- excuse me
22
23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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2 residency?
Not to my knowledge. Do you know when that began?
5
All right.
--
flexible rotating
11 internship to which we've alluded, that there was no 12 emergency medicine residency anywhere in the country? 13 14
15
A
Q
Yes. You did explain that to Mr. Francis? Yes. Did he seem to understand it? MR. ZIRM: Objection.
Did his responses to you indicate 19 whether or not he understood it? Yes. What -- his responses indicated that he
22 did understand that at that time there was no
23 emergency medicine residency?
24
Yes.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1
--
I want to make
10 a point here in a moment, if you will indulge me just 11 a moment, Mr. Bowen 12 lastly Exhibit 31.
--
13
l9 20 birth.
--
Okay.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Yes.
10
11 it?
12
Okay.
16
But I also
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1
Okay.
2 more important to you than the date of birth in 3 verifying that you're talking about the same
4 individual?
5 6
Yes.
<
9
10
11 two conversations with Tom Francis of Cleveland Scene 12 did Mr. Francis ever point blank ask you if Dr.
Not to my knowledge.
17 please.
Do
Correct.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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4 circulating
--
--
his
7 resume as bizarre?
8 9 resume.
10
11
12
13 there's a quote by the author of the article, 14 underneath the photograph of Dr. Patrick, apparently
16 fact that there's no evidence that Patrick has an 17 emergency doctor's training, so his presence in the
18 ER is worrisome.
19
MR. ZIRM:
Oh.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 21 0 of 218
Page 209 1
No, sir.
That's correct. And for the record can you explain one
MR. ZIRM:
answered.
Q
A
16 of training, and have gone in to work in emergency 17 departments, particularly in a small rural community. 18 In major metropolitan areas typically the 19 emergency-medicine physicians are board certified. 20 But, again, prior to about 1978 there
--
doing emergency
23 medicine work. 24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 210
1 board certified?
2 3
It would not.
They do
--
1 6 pre-medical, they do four years of medical school, 1 7 and they do anywhere from three to four years of
20
21 obtain that board certification, that's not the end 22 of it, is it? 23
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1 Typically it's a hundred hours every two years.
I do not
Okay.
Do you see
10 that? 11
12
13 Mr. Francis?
14
Yet he
--
referring to you
--
--
and he
20 never alerted hospitals that were considering hiring 21 Patrick about this fact.
22
23 werentt there?
24
Correct.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
Document 121
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Page 212
1
7 you didn't discuss Dr. Patrick's residency with 8 anyone in terms of what he was doing during his
9 residency; is that correct?
10 11
12 file? 13
14
15
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
16 17
21
22
--
of
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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1 that you told Mr. Francis that no such emergency
2 medicine residency was in existence.
5
6
Urn-hmm. You need to say "yes.(I Yes. When you made that statement to Mr.
Q
A
7
8
14
Okay.
15 to Mr. Francis, were you just referring to Jewish, or 16 were you referring to the fact that there were no 17 emergency medicine residencies anywhere at that time? 18
24
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
-
Document 121
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(A brief recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record. We are back on the This is tape
three of today's deposition. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: further questions, Mr. Bowen. your time. THE WITNESS: MR. ZIRM: Thank you.
I have no
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
17
1 8 resumes or CVs?
19
2 1 additional residency training that Dr. Patrick may 2 2 have had after the one-year flexible rotating
24
I have no knowledge.
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Objection;
He was not.
MR. ZIRM:
have.
Nothing
---
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1
2 STATE OF OHIO
C E R T I F I C A T E
: SS:
4 COUNTY OF HAMILTON :
6 qualified and commissioned notary public within and 7 for the State of Ohio, do hereby certify that before
8 the giving of his aforesaid deposition, the said 9 Michael Bowen was by me first duly sworn to depose
10 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 11 truth; that the foregoing is a deposition given at 12 said time and place by the said Michael Bowen; that 13 said deposition was taken in all respects pursuant to 14 Notice and agreement of counsel as to the time and
15 place; that said deposition was taken by videotape
20 waived.
21
22 relative of nor attorney for any of the parties to 23 this cause, nor relative of nor employee of any of
24 their counsel, and have no interest whatsoever in the
Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
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Page 217
1 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 9
M y commission expires:
April 13, 2011