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Two Neglected Interviews with Karl Marx Author(s): Karl Marx, Philip S. Foner and R. Landor Reviewed work(s): Source: Science & Society, Vol. 36, No. 1 (Spring, 1972), pp. 3-28 Published by: Guilford Press Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/40401612 . Accessed: 15/08/2012 02:58
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TWO NEGLECTED INTERVIEWS WITH KARL MARX

PHILIP S. FONER

DURING THE 1870sthe American pressfeatured withKarl Marx.The first interviews in the was published NewYorkWorld ofJuly in Chiand the the 1871 second 18, ofJanuary 5, 1879.The New YorkWorldinterview cago Tribune in Woodhull& Claflin's was reprinted Weekly(New York) on Exin English. has and never since been 12, 1871, August reprinted Socialin The from the Tribune interview cerpts Chicago appeared in itsissue an English-language LaborParty oftheSocialist ist, organ ofJanuary translation German 11, 1879,and a complete appeared in theNew Yorker withexcerpts ofJanuary 10, 1879, Volkszeitung in Vorbote of January 11, 1879.It ap(also in German) (Chicago) in in Archiv German the fr Sozialgeschichte (Hanpearedagain underthe title, Band 5, 1965, withnotesby BertAndreas, nover), and in "Marxberdie SPD, Bismarck und das Sozialis ten-gesetz," in the Weekly 23 and 30, English People (New York)December the withnotesby Louis Lazarus.Mr. Lazarushad furnished 1967, in Hannover. text oftheinterview to theArchiv whenthe to Americans Karl Marx,of course, was no stranger he had and 1851 interviews werefirst Between 1862, published. TribYork of theNew served as one of theforeign correspondents his Somecarried with hisarticles. subscribers 200,000 une,reaching "London from the as some correspondsignature, although appeared as editorials.1 wereevenpublished ent,"and a number Duringthe knownbecauseof the Civil War, Marx'sname becamefurther to PresiAssociation from theInternational addresses Workingmen's workoftheEuropean thesupport Lincolnpledging dentAbraham
1 Morton Borden, "Some Notes on Horace Greeley, Charles Dana and Karl Marx," JournalismQuarterly, XXXIV, 1957,457-65. 3

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between After thewar,thecontacts ingclassfortheUnioncause.2 of Marx laborand the I.W.A. added to the knowledge American in the oftheInternational sections and by 1870three and hiswork, made the and a Bohemiana French, a German, UnitedStatesof known. nameofMarxevenmorewidely too,many By thistime, in theUnited available were Das Kapital, Marx's including writings, workdid monumental Marx's of volume and the first while States, were extracts until not appearin English 1887,English-language 1876 between and theLabor Standard in The Socialist published and 1878.3 Marx'sname thatbrought It wastheParisCommune, however, heard who had neverbefore of manyAmericans to the attention obthe was The Commune leader. of theprominent revolutionary and alongwith in theAmerican and calumny press, jectofslander and its of the International of vilification thiswenta campaign in was Marx Marx.4 Karl foremost residing Although spokesman, Berlin from the Commune as directing London,he was pictured of as theprivate he wasalso said to be functioning where secretary of the had effect All of this, Bismarck. however, curiosity arousing and led AmeriabouttheCommune as to whatMarxreally thought with to seek interviews to assigncorrespondents can newspapers The NewYorkHerald'scorrespondoftheInternational. theleader and on the Commune Marx'sstatements to distort ent proceeded Marx's to publish and theHeraldrefused theInternational, reply its correwhichhe charged falsehoods" and positive to "the trash an interview to him.5However, withhavingattributed spondent of World York in theNew withMarxpublished July18, 1871apa clearpicreaders and gaveAmerican mutilation, pearedwithout and theroleoftheInternational. on theCommune ofhisviews ture to attribute it wasabsurd that Marxexplained other Among points, as "not he described which to theInternational, theParisCommune of band "a classat all" but fortheworking a government properly
2 Documents of the First International: The General Council of the First International, 1864-1866, Moscow, n.d., 50, 53, 57, 60, 68, 69, 94, 96. 3 Philip S. Foner, "Marx's Capital in the United States/' Science & Society,XXXI, Fall, 1967,461-66. 4 Samuel Bernstein,"American Labor and the Paris Commune," Ibid., Spring, 1951, 154-60. 5 New York Sun, Sept. 9, 1871.

TWO INTERVIEWSWITH MARX

thana controlling unionrather force." The International was not a conspiracy, foritsaim,openly was "theeconomical proclaimed, of the the class working by emancipation conquestof political power." withMarx (really a composite The ChicagoTribuneinterview in of interest at a time of several occurred increasing interviews) From1873 to 1878 the nationexideas in thiscountry. Socialist in itshistory economic decline theworst up to thattime, perienced of Labor pointed out, one of the and,as the U.S. Commissioner the wasthat"it stimulated crisis ofthedevastating economic effects a extent than and to of any prestudy panics depressions greater ofthecapitalist thediagnosis by system Inevitably, ceding period."6 Then attention. thinker attracted Socialist theworld's too, greatest the Reichstag laws pushedthrough theanti-Socialist by Bismarck DemoSocial banned the in the of ideas interest in 1878aroused who was and thoseof its chiefideologist of Germany cratic Party "Interof the the in Hence in exile England. publication living as theChicago of Modern withtheCorner-Stone views Socialism," The only is not at all surprising. the article, Tribuneheadlined as well as theone whichapabouttheinterview, thing surprising both should isthat York in the New before World, years eight peared so longhavebeenignored. in theoriginal ofsubheadings which fortheelimination Except werepartofthetextbutherehavebeenrunin, theinterviews apin 1871and 1879.Explanatory werepublished as they pearexactly to it was deemednecessary wherever noteshave been furnished in the to referred and events on information personalities provide interviews. LincolnUniversity, Pennsylvania philips. foner

6 First Annual Report of the U.S. Commissionerof Labor, 1886, p. 60.

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THE CURTAIN RAISED Interview withKarl Marx,theHead of L'Internationale

REVOLT OF LABOR AGAINSTCAPITAL

The Two Faces of L'InternationaleTransformation of Societyin theUnited ItsProgress States Had to Do WiththeCommune, &c. WhattheAssociation LONDON, July3.- You have askedme to findout something and I havetried to do so. The abouttheInternational Association, the a difficult one London is is now. just indisputably enterprise have but the Englishpeople of the association, got headquarters smelt as KingJames in everything a scare, and smellinternational thefamous of thesociety after The consciousness plot.1 gunpowder withthe suspiciousness of the public;and increased has naturally are of thestamp to keep,they if those whoguideit havea secret leadofmenwhokeepa secret well.I havecalledon twoof their I and here talked with one have giveyou the freely, ingmembers, I havesatisfied of one thing, of myconversation. substance myself workmen butthatthese it is a society ofgenuine that working-men, class. One of and another theorists are directed social by political at was sitting of thecouncil, member manwhomI saw,a leading to and leftoff our interview, his workman's benchduring talking in no delivered me fromtime to time to receivea complaint, in theneighbormasters little from one ofthemany courteous tone, him.I have heardthissameman makeelohood who employed withtheenergy in publicinspired in every passage quentspeeches I underhis rulers. thatcall themselves theclasses of hatetowards life of the at domestic the after this stoodthe speeches glimpse to haveorganthat he had brains havefelt orator. He must enough and yetherehe was obligedto devote ized a working-government, taskworkof a mechanical hislifeto themost profession. revolting he had to return turn and yetat every He wasproudand sensitive,
1 The Gunpowder Plot was a plot to destroythe King, Lords, and Commons in revenge for the penal laws against Catholics. As Guy Fawkes, the agent of the conspirators,was about to fire barrels of gunpowder, which had been placed under the House of Commons, he was seized, November 5, 1605. Hence November 5 is known in English historyas Guy Fawkes Day.

TWO INTERVIEWS WITH MARX

a bowfora grunt and a smilefora command thatstoodon about same in the the level scaleof civility witha huntsman's call to his ofone sideof thenature of dog.This manhelpedme to a glimpse theInternational, theresult of laboragainst of the workcapital, man who produces the middleman who enjoys. Here was against thehandthat wouldsmite hardwhenthetimecame,and as to the I saw that, head thatplans,I think withDr. too,in myinterview Karl Marx. Dr. KarlMarxis a German doctor ofphilosophy2 with a German of knowledge breadth derived bothfrom observation of the living I shouldconclude world and from books. thathe has never been a in theordinary of theterm. worker sense His surroundings and apare thoseof a well-to-do man of the middleclass.3 The pearance I which into ushered was on the of interdrawing-room night my viewwouldhave formed comfortable fora thriving very quarters whohad madehiscompetence and was nowbeginning stockbroker to makehis fortune. It was comfort the apartment of personified, a manoftaste and ofeasymeans, butwithnothing in it peculiarly A finealbum of Rhine viewson the characteristic of its owner. I peeredcautiously table,however, gavea clue to his nationality. fora bomb.I sniffed forpetroleum, intothevaseon theside-table to my butthesmellwas thesmellof roses.I creptbackstealthily theworst. awaited and moodily seat, and greeted He has entered me cordially, and we are sitting I am with tete-a-tete faceto face. the revolution with Yes, incarnate, andguiding oftheInternational therealfounder with spirit Society, in which theauthor oftheaddress wastoldthatifit warred capital on laborit mustexpectto haveits houseburneddownabout its withtheapologist fortheCommune ears-in a word, of Paris.Do themanwho dies rather thebustof Socrates, than youremember in the of his the the man with belief timethe fine gods profess for the the forehead at end into of running meanly sweep profile feature thatformed likea bisected a little snub, curled-up pothook thenose?Take thisbustin yourmind's eye,colorthebeardblack, with of and there it made here dashing claptheheadthus puffs grey; and is the middle the Doctor of before on a portly height, body you.
2 Marx was awarded a degree of Doctor of Philosophy by the Universityof Jena in 1841. His undergraduatework was done at the Universitiesof Bonn and Berlin. 3 Marx's house in Maitland Park Road was a comfortabledwelling and very roomy.

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Throwa veilovertheupper andyoumight be in the oftheface part theimofa bornvestryman. Revealtheessential feature, company and youknow at oncethat mense brow, youhaveto deal withthat a a dreamer who thinks, forcesof all composite mostformidable who dreams. thinker Dr. Marx,a German, Another too, I gentleman accompanied I canwith our his from great believe, language familiarity though so. side?I think on thedoctor's Was he a witness notbe sureofit.4 on call hereafter of the The "Council/*5 interview, might hearing is aboveall things ofit,for theRevolution for hisaccount theDoctor incorroboration. washisevidence ofitsagents. Here,then, suspicious to be I said,seemed The world, I went to mybusiness. straight but not it very in thedarkabouttheInternational, much, hating to have whoprofessed it hated. whatthing able to sayclearly Some, that declared their than the into further neighbors, gloom peered workman's honest a with ofJanus hadmadeouta sort fair, figure they a murderous, andon theother on oneofitsfaces, smile conspirator's in whichthe theory scowl. Wouldhe lightup thecase of mystery dwelt? I fancied, at thethought a little The professor chuckled laughed, to clearup, is no that ofhim."There we wereso frightened mystery oftheHans Breitmann form in a very dearsir,"he began, polished in those human of the dialect, stupidity "exceptperhaps mystery a is our fact that association the whoperpetually publicone ignore forall are published of itsproceedings and thatthefullest reports and a You maybuyour rulesfora penny, whocareto readthem. about much as almost will teach in laid out you shilling pamphlets ourselves. us as we know I shall R.- Almostso; but will not thesomething yes,perhaps reservation? To be quitefrank notknow constitute theall-important this it an outside the strikes to as withyou,and put case observer, more of you mustmeansomething claimof depreciation general it of themultitude. And is stillpertinent ill-will thantheignorant
4 The other "gentleman" was probably Friedrich Engels who was also in London, and often went to Marx's house. Engels spoke English well. 5 The "Council" was the General Council of the International Workingmen'sAssociation, its leading body which met weekly in London and correspondedwith workers' groups in othercountries.

TWO INTERVIEWSWITH MARX

whatyouhavetoldme,whatis theInternational to askevenafter Society? of whichit is Dr. M- You haveonlyto lookat theindividuals composed-workmen. of the statecraft R.- Yes, but thesoldier need be no exponent I knowsomeofyourmembers, and I can that setshimin motion. aremade. of of which not the stuff that are believe they conspirators a million would be no men secret at all. a secret shared Besides, by in thehandsofa bold, ifthese wereonlytheinstruments Butwhat me foradding,not over-scrupulous and I hope you will forgive conclave. it. to prove Dr. M- Thereis nothing R.- The lastParisinsurrection?6 wasanyplotat ailthat there theproof Dr. M.- I demand firstly of the effect the not thatwas thatanything legitimate happened I demandthe or the plot granted, of themoment; circumstances Association. in International it of the the of participation proofs in thecommunal R.- The presence bodyof so manymembers oftheassociation. their share Dr. M.- Then itwasa plotoftheFreemasons, too,for was byno meansa slight one. I should as individuals in thework thePope setting to find downthewhole notbe surprised, indeed, But try another The inaccount. to their insurrection explanation. of Paris.The ablest in Pariswasmadeby theworkmen surrection and adminishavebeenitsleaders must oftheworkmen necessarily buttheablestof theworkmen trators; happenalso to be members as suchmayin Yet theassociation Association. oftheInternational action. fortheir no waybe responsible to theworld.People talkof seR.- It will stillseemotherwise Can it of money. from cretinstructions London,and evengrants of the association's thattheallegedopenness be affirmed proceedofcommunication? all secrecy ingsprecludes everformed on itswork withcarried Dr. M.- Whatassociation But to talkof secret instrucas wellas publicagencies? out private in thematter of faith and morals as of decrees tionfrom London, and is wholly of Papal domination intrigue to somecentre from
to the seizureof powerby the working referred class on 6 The "Paris insurrection" of the Paris Commune. The Commune March18, 1871,and the establishment fell
on May 28, 1871.

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the natureof the International. misconceive a This would imply form the centralized of government of the International, whereas is designedly thatwhichgivesthegreatest real form playto local In is not properly and International fact the energy independence. a government theworking class at all. It is a bondofunionrather for thana controlling force. R.- And ofunionto whatend? Dr. M.- The economical of theworking classby emancipation of political theconquest The use of thatpolitical to power. power theattainment ofsocialends.It is necessary that ouraimsshould be thuscomprehensive to include form ofworking classactivity. every To havemadethem ofa special character wouldhavebeento adapt themto the needsof one sectionalone. one nationof workmen Buthowcouldall menbe askedto uniteto further ofa theobjects To havedonethattheassociation few? must itstitle haveforfeited of International. The association of podoes not dictate theform liticalmovements; it onlyrequires a pledgeas to theirend. It is a network all overtheworldof laof affiliated societies spreading bor.In each partof theworldsomespecialaspect of theproblem to its and workmen themselves the there address itself, presents in their canconsideration ownway.Combinations workmen among in in in notbe absolutely and identical detail Newcastle Barcelona, In England, thewayto show in Londonand in Berlin. forinstance, would class.Insurrection political powerlies open to theworking where would and more be madness swiftly surely agitation peaceful In France and a moral do thework. a hundred lawsof repression solution between to violent classes seem necessitate the antagonism ofsocialwar.The choice oftheworking ofthat solution is theaffair to dicof thatcountry. doesnot presume classes The International it movement and hardly to advise.But to every tatein thematter its its sympathy and its aid within the limits accords by assigned own laws. R.- Andwhatis thenature ofthat aid? Dr. M- To givean example, one ofthecommonest of the forms movement foremancipation is thatof strikes. when a Formerly, strike tookplacein one country it wasdefeated bytheimportation ofworkmen from another. The International hasnearly all stopped

TWO INTERVIEWS WITH MARX

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It receives information that of theintended that.7 it spreads strike, itsmembers, whoat oncesee thatforthem the information among must be forbidden The masters thus are seatofthestruggle ground. men.In most withtheir casesthemenrequire left aloneto reckon or thoseof the no otheraid thanthat.Their own subscriptions them are moreimmediately affiliated to which societies they supply too them become but shouldthepressure withfunds, heavy upon their necestheassociation be one ofwhich andthestrike approves, a strike means outofthecommon aresupplied sities Bythese purse. to a victorious issue was brought of Barcelona of thecigar-makers in it the has no interest But theother strikes, though society day. It cannot conditions. them undercertain gainby possibly supports Let us sum lose. it but of in a pecuniary them view, may easily point amid theinclasses remain The working it all up in a word. poor maTheir of increase the wretched ofwealth, crease luxury. among stature. moralas wellas their dwarfs their terial physical privation a It then for has on become with others cannot remedy. rely They owncase in hand.They to taketheir an imperative them necessity and and thecapitalists themselves between therelations must revise This is the musttransform and thatmeansthey landlords, society. land workmen's known of end organization; and labor every general and co-operastores andfriendly trade societies, co-operative leagues, a perfect it. To establish are but meanstowards tiveproduction of the Interis thebusiness theseorganizations between solidarity to be felt is beginning Itsinfluence Association. national everywhere. in thesame in three views its Two papers Germany, Spain, spread and in six in six in and in Austria number Holland, Belgium,
7 As early as the spring of 1866, the General Council was active during tailors' strikes in Edinburgh and London when it successfullydefeated employers' attempts to break the strikesby bringingin recruitsfrom Germany. "A Warning," written by Marx, was published in the Oberrhenischer Courier of May 15, 1866, urging German workersto stay away from England and Scotland so as "to prove to other countries that they,like their brothersin France, Belgium and Switzerland,know how to defend the common interestsof their class and will not become obedient mercenariesof capital in its struggleagainst labour." (Documents of the First International,op. cit., 367-68.) In 1869, at the suggestionof Andrew Cameron, delegate of the National Labor Union to the International Congress at Basel, the General Council established a Labor and Emigration Bureau to prevent the emigration in the United States. (See Samuel Bernof workersfromEurope to replace strikers stein, The First International in America, New York, 1965, 35-34.)

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Switzerland.8 And nowthatI havetoldyouwhattheInternational as is youmay, to form be in a position yourownopinion perhaps, to itspretended plots. R.- I do notquiteunderstand you. to theold society, Dr. M.- Do younotsee that strength wanting is and it of discussion meet withits own weapons combination, of of fixing to thefraud obligedto resort upon it theimputation conspiracy? to R.- But theFrench are in a position thatthey policedeclare of late its in to the affair, saynothing preceding prove complicity attempts. Dr. M.- But we will say something of thoseattempts, if you because best to test the serve all of the they please, gravity charges ofconspiracy theInternational. You remember the brought against last"plot"butone.A plebiscite had beenannounced.9 the of Many to be wavering. electors wereknown a keen They had no longer ofthevalueoftheimperial sense to in come disbelieve rule,having of society thosethreatened from which it was supposed to dangers A newbugbear havesavedthem. waswanted. The policeundertook one. All combinations to find of workmen to them, beinghateful owedtheInternational an ill-turn. A happy naturally they thought if them. What should select the International for their they inspired thus at and once discredit and favor for that bugbear, society curry theimperial cause?Out of thathappy the ridiculous came thought theEmperor's life-asifwewanted tokillthewretched "plot"against old fellow. the seized members of the International. They leading evidence. and manufactured their casefor trial, They Theyprepared in themeantime had their But theintended comthey plebiscite.10
8 The International at thistimehad no truly official the paperin the UnitedStates, editedbyAdolphDouai, having 1870.There Arbeiter-Union, expiredin September, stillexisted, the semi-official Bulletinde l'unionrpublicaine and Woodhowever, hull ir Claflin's which, Weekly thoughthe organof Section12 in New YorkCity, was in conflict withtheleaders of theInternational. 9 The plebiscite was held by NapoleonIII on May 7, 1870,to confirm someliberal constitutional offered and to provide a showof popular changes by thegovernment, endorsement of the Empire.The International from sections advocated abstention voting. 10 On theeve of theplebiscite, the policeconducted massarrests of members of three theInternational. The trial, in June-July, in prison resulted terms fora num1870, berof theInternational leaders.

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but a broad,coarsefarce.Intelligent edywas too obviously Europe, whichwitnessed the spectacle, was not deceivedfora momentas to itscharacter, and onlythe Frenchpeasantelectorwas befooled.Your of the miserableaffair; Englishpapersreportedthe beginning they to noticetheend. The Frenchjudges,admitting the existence forgot of the plot by official were obliged to declare that there courtesy, was nothingto show the complicity of the International.Believe first. Frenchfunctionary is like the is again the second The me, plot civil movement in business. He is called in to accountforthebiggest the worldhas everseen. A hundredsignsof the timesoughtto sugthe growthof intelligenceamong the gest the rightexplanationof luxuryand incompetence workmen, among theirrulers,the hisof power froma toricalprocessnow goingon of thatfinaltransfer of time,place, and circumclass to the people, the apparentfitness of emancipation.But to have seen stancefor the greatmovement and he is onlya musthave been a philosopher, thesethefunctionary he has fallen back of the law his mouchard.11 therefore, being, By a the mouchard's explanation- "conspiracy."His old portupon and this will supplyhim withthe proofs, documents folioof forged timeEurope in itsscarewill believe the tale. R.- Europe can scarcelyhelp itself,seeing that everyFrench newspaperspreads the report. Dr. M.- EveryFrenchnewspaperl See, here is one of them (takLa and for of the value of its eviing up yourself judge Situation), of fact.[Reads] "Dr. Karl Marx, of the Interdence as to a matter in Belgium,trying to make his way to national,has been arrested France. The police of London have long had their eye on the and are now takingactivemeaswithwhichhe is connected, society Two and two lies. You can test sentences ures forits suppression." the evidenceof your own senses.You see that insteadof being in prisonin Belgium I am at home in England. You must also know that the police in England are as powerlessto interfere with the International Societyas the societywith them. Yet what is most all in this is that the reportwill go the round of the conregular and could continueto do so tinentalpresswithouta contradiction, in if I wereto circularize every journal Europe fromthisplace.
11 Stoolpigeon;spy; informer.

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R.- Have you attempted to contradict many of these false reports? ofthelabor.To Dr. M.- I havedoneso tillI havegrown weary I may withwhichtheyare concocted carelessness showthe gross a down as member I set Felix saw in of them that one mention Pyat of the International.12 R.- Andhe is notso? roomforsuch havefound couldhardly Dr. M- The association to a wild man. He was once presumptuous enough issue a rash in our name,but it was instantly disavowed, though, proclamation disavowal. the of course the to do them ignored justice, press ofyour is he a member R.- And Mazzini, body?13 Dr. Marx (laughing)Ah, no. We shouldhavemadebut little ofhisideas. therange ifwe hadnotgotbeyond progress thathe have thought me. I shouldcertainly R.-You surprise views. advanced themost represented thanthe old idea of a better Dr. M.- He represents nothing with themiddleclass.He seek no We middle-class part republic. as theGerman movement of modern the rear far to the has fallen in Europeas the are stillconsidered who,nevertheless, professors, ofthefuture. democratism ofthecultured Theywereso at apostles middleclass,in the German when before one time'48, perhaps, its attained the Englishsense,had scarcely properdevelopment. and theproleto thereaction, havegoneoverbodily But nowthey no more. them knows tariat eleofa positivist sawsigns R.- Somepeoplehavethought they in your ment organization.14
to Flix Pyat as the example of an extremeradical phrasereferred 12 Marx frequently just before he himselfran away. mongerwho specialized in invocations to terrorism In a letter of May 12, 1871, JennyMarx, Marx's daughter, referredto "knightsof the phrase like Flix Pyat. . . ." (Hal Draper, editor, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, Writingson the Paris Commune, New York and London, 1971, 223.) 13 Guiseppe Mazzini (1805-1872) was the founder of "Young Italy" and the European Democratic Committeewith the objective of unifyingItaly. His program demanded the independence and unity of Italy under the slogan, "God and the People." Marx frequentlycriticizedthe bourgeois character of Mazzini's program. 14 Positivismwas the philosophy of the followersof August Comte, who took from Saint-Simon a religious-like belief in "positive science," especially "sociology" (a and while they word Comte invented). The Positivistswere bourgeois reformers, favored a "thorough moral adjustment of the relations of capital and labor," they condemned its "repressivemeasures,"they opposed violence. Although the Positivists

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We have positivists Dr. M- No suchthing. amongus, and others is who But of their work as well. this notbyvirtue notofourbody todo with willhavenothing which government, popular philosophy, in to a new seeks as we understand it,andwhich hierarchy only put the old one. of place thatthe leadersof the new internaR._It seemsto me,then, as wellas an assoa philosophy havehad to form movement tional for themselves. ciation thatwe could forinstance, It is hardly Dr. M.- Precisely. likely, our tactics, in our waragainst capitalif we derive hopeto prosper kindof traced one He has Mill.15 of from the economy say political thatit to show We and labor between hope capital. relationship another. toestablish is possible R.- And as to religion? Dr. M.- On thatpointI cannotspeakin the name of the soto hearsuchan no doubt, It is startling, I myself aman atheist. ciety. thatit in thethought is somecomfort butthere in England, avowal France. or in either neednotbe madein a whisper Germany in this R.-And yet country? your headquarters youmake is herean of association theright Dr. M.- For obvious reasons; but it is besetwith in Germany, It exists, established indeed, thing. it hasnotexisted for in France innumerable difficulties; many years at all. R.-And the UnitedStates? are forthe present of our activity Dr. M.- The chiefcentres havehitherto circumstances ofEurope. theoldsocieties Many among an all-absorbing from thelaborproblem toprevent tended assuming are But States. in the United disappearing, they rapidly importance as in withthegrowth there to thefront and it is rapidly coming therestof thecommunity from classdistinct Europeofa laboring from and divorced capital.16
to the Commune, and praised such legislativeacts of the Commune as were friendly the abolition of the standing army,the repeal of capital punishment,and the adto office. missionof foreigners 15 John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) was the English philosopher and classical economist whose viewswere influencedby socialistcriticism. 16 On March 5, 1852, Marx wrote to Joseph Weydemeyerthat "bourgeois society m the United States has not yet developed far enough to make the class struggle obvious and comprehensible."In 1881, however, he wrote to F. A. Sorge that in the United States "capitalist economy and the correspondingenslavement of the

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R.-It would seem that in this country the hoped for solution, it may be, will be attainedwithoutthe violentmeans of whatever and press of agitating revolution.The English system by platform into majorities is a hopefulsign. becomeconverted until minorities Dr. M.-I am not so sanguineon thatpointas you. The English middle class has alwaysshown itselfwilling enough to accept the so long as it enjoyed the monopolyof the verdictof the majority But mark me, as soon as it findsitselfoutvotedon votingpower. we shall see herea new slave-owner's vitalquestions whatit considers war. themthe heads I have heregivenyou as well as I can remember man. I shall leave you to with thisremarkable of my conversation formyour own conclusions.Whatevermay be said for or against with the movementof the Comof its complicity the probability Associationthe mune we may be assuredthatin the International it mustsoon which with midst in its a new has civilizedworld power R. landor forgood or ill. come to a reckoning NEW YORK WORLD, July18, 1871

KARL MARX withthe Corner-Stone Interviews ofModern Socialism as to the Doings and Objects He Gives Some Information of Himselfand His Disciples

The Recent System of Land and Capital to Give Place to a "Higher Social Condition'' Blood Will Flow, Because "No GreatMovementHas Ever Been InauguratedWithoutBloodshed" Bismarck"the Ridicule of All Statesmen";and the Man" Rev. JosephCook "a VeryBadly-Informed

LONDON, Dec. 18.- In a littlevilla at Haverstock Hill, in the Karl northwest of lives of the corner-stone Marx, portion London,
workingclass have developed more rapidly and shamelesslythan in any other country." (Karl Marx & Frederick Engels, Letters to Americans, 1848-1895, New York, 1953,44, 129.)

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He wasexiledfrom Socialism. hisnative modern Germany countryIn 1848 he re-in 1844,forpropagating theories. revolutionary wasagainexiled.He thentookup his butin a fewmonths turned, his expulsion abode in Paris,but his politicaltheories procured have from thatcityin 1849,and sincethatyearhis headquarters from the havecausedhimtrouble beenin London.His convictions from his of the home, certainly they beginning. Judging appearance all these himaffluence. havenotbrought during years Persistently whichundoubtedly withan earnestness hisviews he hasadvocated muchwe may a firm beliefin them, from and, however springs exto but we cannot their respect a certain propagation, deprecate exile. of thenowvenerated tenttheself-denial Your correspondent has called upon him twiceor thrice, and in his library, wasfound eachtimetheDoctor witha bookin one in theother. He must handanda cigarette be over70 years ofage.17 and His physique is well-knit, erect. He has the of a head massive, and thefeatures of a cultivated manofintellect, Jew.His hairand in color.His eyes and iron-gray are glittering beardarelong, black, a a of To he shows extreme shaded eyebrows. stranger by pair bushy but theancientA foreigner can generally caution. gainadmission: has instructions waits visitors German woman18 who looking upon nonewhohail from theFatherland, unless letto admit they bring Once his introduction. into tersof however, and, having library, in thecorner ofhiseye,in order to takeyour hisone eye-glass fixed so tospeak, anddepth, he losesthat breadth intellectual self-restraint, the of menand things and unfolds to youa knowledge throughout one.Andhisconversation doesnotrunin one world aptto interest as varied as the volumes shelves. are but is uponhislibrary groove, and youcan be judgedbythebookshe reads, A mancan generally whenI tellyoua casualglance revealed ownconclusions form your BaMoliere, Racine,Montaigne, Dickens, Thackeray, Shakespeare, French bluebooks; American, Paine;English, Voltaire, con,Goethe, Italin and works Russian, German, Spanish, political philosophical I was struck with his etc.During ian,etc., intimacy myconversations have which been withAmerican duringthe uppermost questions,
60 and 61. between Marxwas midway 17 At thetimeof theinterview 18 She was undoubtedly Helene Demuth,the housekeeper and friendof the Marx family.

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acHis knowledge of them, and thesurprising years.19 pasttwenty with which and State National he criticised our legislation, curacy his impressed upon mymindthe factthathe musthave derived is not thisknowledge from information insidesources. But,indeed, but is spread to America, overthefaceof Europe.When confined meloin those Socialismhe doesnotindulge ofhishobbyspeaking to him,but dwellsupon his dramatic attributed flights generally a firm race"with "the of for plans emancipation thehuman Utopian at ifnotin this conviction in therealization ofhistheories, century, leastin thenext. known in America Dr. KarlMarxis better as theauthor Perhaps or at least oftheInternational of"Capital," andthefounder Society, In theinterview which itsmost follows, youwill prominent pillar.20 Howexists. time ofthisSociety as it at thepresent see what he says the from I a few in will extracts the meantime, ever, give you printed in 1871,by rulesof The International Society, general published an imparfrom which of theGeneral order Council, youcan form "That setsforth tialjudgment of itsaimsand ends.The preamble mustbe conquered classes of theworking theemancipation by the forthe emancipation thatthestruggle classes themselves; working and forclassprivileges nota struggle means classes of theworking all of and abolition the and but for duties, monopolies, equal rights to labor man of of the classrule; thatthe ecumenical subjection of lifeof labor-thatis, thesources of themeans themonopolizer of all socialmisery, in all itsforms, ofservitude liesat thebottom
and gained consocialists with American 19 Marx was in frequent correspondence in the UnitedStates.In addiabout events from theirletters siderable knowledge In booksand official tion,theysuppliedhim withAmerican reports. newspapers, to Sorgeon October19, 1877: it is interesting to read him writing thisconnection, "A fewyearsago (not many)a sortof Blue Book was published(I don't know in Pennsylvania who live, of the miners official or not) on the conditions whether as we know,in the most feudal dependence (I thinkthe upon the moneylords for It is of the greatest after the bloodyconflict). was published importance thing and if you can get it forme I will send you whatit me to have thispublication, costs.If not,perhapsyou can get me the title,and I shall thenask Harney(in to refers to Americans, op. cit.,p. 117.) The "bloodyconflict" Boston)."(Letters and force. of 1875"broken miners' the Pennsylvania George by hunger "longstrike and a member of the First leaderof the leftwingof the Chartists JulianHarney, Marx withmuch and furnished to the UnitedStates, had emigrated International, in thiscountry. material published foundwas theInternational Association, 20 The "International Workingmen's Society" ed in 1864.

TWO INTERVIEWSWITH MARX

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and political aimmental thatall efforts degradation, dependence; of theworking havehithclasses ingat theuniversal emancipation themanifold wantof solidarity between divisions ertofailedfrom and thepreamble callsfor"theimmedioflaborin eachcountry," ofthestilldisconnected It goeson to movements." atecombination withtheInternational Association "no rights acknowledge saythat thus member no dutieswithout out duties, rights,"- making every a cenwas formed at London"to afford a worker. The Association between theWorkandco-operation ofcommunication tral medium at the same in different the Societies countries, aiming ingmen's and advancement the end,namely: protection, complete emancipathedocument further "Eachmember," classes." tionoftheworking his domicile on removing "of the International Association, says, of thefraternal will receive to another, one country from support the associated workingmen." which meet ofa General consists The Society annually; Congress, between "an international whichforms a General Council, agency so that of theAssociation, and local groups national thedifferent of the informed can in be one theworkingmen constantly country This Council othercountry." of theirclass in every movements to or Sections of new Branches and actsupon application receives the Secbetween differences decides the International, arising join "runsthemachine." to use an American and,in fact, tions, phrase, Council aredefrayed oftheGeneral The expenses byan annualcontheFederal Then comes member. ofan English tribution per penny countries. various in the and localSections, Councils or Committees, at leastevery are boundto sendone report The FederalCouncils a report threemonths to the GeneralCouncil,and every month branches. oftheir state andfinancial on theadministration respective theneararepublished, theInternationals attacks Whenever against is boundto sendat once a copyof such or Committee estBranch of Female Council. The formation General to the publication recommended. is classes Branches amongtheworking R. Applegarth, the following: The GeneralCouncilcomprises E. Dalahaye, G. H. Buttery, M. T. Boon,Fredrick Bradnick, Eugene WilliamHales, G. Harris, Hurliman, Jules Dupont (on mission), Charles LonFrederick Harriet Lessner, Lochner, Law, Johannard, Charles C. Maurice, Milner, Martin, Mayo, George Henry Zevy guet, CowellStepney, Alfred Roach,Rubt.Sadler, Pfander, John Murray,

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Taylor,W. Townsend,F. Vaillant,JohnWeston.The Correspondare: Leo Frankel,forAusforthe variouscountries ing Secretaries Dentria and Hungary; A. Herman, Belgium; T. Mottersbend,21 mark; A. Serraillier,France; Karl Marx, Germanyand Russia; Charles Rochat, Holland; J. P. McDonnell,22Ireland; Frederick Poland; Hermann Engels, Italy and Spain; Walery Wroblewski,23 Le Moussu, for G. United States; Switzerland; Eccarius, Jung, J. Frenchbranches of United States. given During my visit to Dr. Marx I alluded to the platform as the clearest Davis in his official by C. Bancroft reportof 1877,24 of SocialismthatI had seen. He said it and mostconciseexposition was taken fromthe reportof the Socialistreunion at Gotha, Gerhe said, and he was incorrect, many,in May, 1875. The translation a correction, whichI append as he dictated:25 volunteered for all males over First-Universal,direct,and secretsuffrage State. and forall elections, 20 years, Municipal Second-Direct legislationby the people. War and peace to be made by directpopularvote. Th ird- Universalobligationto militia duty.No standingarmy. Fourth-Abolitionof all special legislationregarding presslaws and public meetings. to be Fifth-"Legalremediesfreeof expense. Legal proceedings conductedby the people. and Sixth- Education to be by the State,general,obligatory, free.Freedomof scienceand religion. SeventhAll indirecttaxes to be abolished. Money to be raised incometax. forState and Municipal purposesby directprogressive
21 22 23 24 correctname is Thomas Mottershead. correctname is P. J. McDonnell. correctname is ValryWroblewski. referenceis to the officialreport of Charles Bancroft Davis, U.S. Minister to Germany. It was addressed to Hamilton Fish, Secretaryof State under President Grant, and is published in United States State Department. Papers Relating to Foreign Relations of the United States,Washington,1877, 175-80. 25 The text as it appears in the interviewis taken fromthe original protocol of 1875. However, Marx omitted the last demand calling for religion to be a private matter. He believed this demand to be "bourgeois," and, in his recommendationsto the German Working Class Party in 1875, he had suggestedthat in their program they demand freedomof thoughtfromthe "religious ghost." Also missingis the demand in the preamble of the Gotha Programmefor "the self -managementof all workers' social funds." The The The The

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of combination theworking classes. Freedom among Eighthmento be defined. The work NinthThe legaldayoflaborfor to be abolished. ofwomen and thatof children to be limited, of life and healthof laws forthe protection TenthSanitary to be and andregulation oftheir laborers, dwellings placesoflabor, them. enforced selected bypersons by h- Suitable Elvent provision respecting prison-labor. In Mr. Bancroft Davis*report thereis a Twelfth Clause,the of which aid most reads: "State and credit forindusimportant all, I askedtheDoctorwhy under trial democratic direction." societies, and he replied: he omitted this, tookplaceat Gotha, in 1875,there "Whenthereunion existed one a division the Social The Democrats. were among wing partisans theothers, in general ofLassalle;26 whohad accepted theprothose and were called the of the International organization, gramme not That twelfth Eisenach was point placedon theplatform party. to the introduction butplacedin thegeneral bywayofconcession Mr. of. Davis does not Afterwards it was never Lassallians. spoken no as a compromise it wasplacedin theprogramme having saythat in as one of the cardinal it but significance, gravely puts particular ' oftheprogramme/ principles lookuponthetransformation "But,"I said,"Socialists generally as the of society into common the of themeansof labor property ofthemovement." climax grand willbe theoutcome ofthemovement, this but "Yes;wesaythat ofeducation, and theinstitution of time, it willbe a question of a socialstatus." higher I remarked, and one "This platform," onlyto Germany "applies countries." or twoother "ifyoudrawyourconclusions from "Ah!" he returned, nothing of of the know the butthis, nothing activity Manyof its you party. ofGermany. outside haveno significance EngSpain,Russia, points
26 Ferdinand Lassalle (1825-1864) was the German lawyerand labor leader who founded the General German Workers Union in 1863, and was criticizedby Marx as an advocate of opportunismin German Social-Democracy.For a detailed characterization of Lasalle by Marx, see his letter to Kugelmann, Feb. 23, 1865, in The Selected Correspondenceof Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1846-1895, New York, 1942, 193-97.

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suited to theirpeculiar difficulland, and Americahave platforms end to be attained." The in is the ties. onlysimilarity them "And thatis thesupremacy of labor?" of labor." "That is the emancipation "Do European Socialists look upon the movement in Americaas a serious one?" "Yes; it is the natural outcome of the country's development. It has been said thatthemovement has been imported by foreigners. in England,fifty When labor movements became disagreeable years Socialism was before same was and that was the said; long ago, thing bemovement labor In the of. has since 1857 America, only, spoken come conspicuous.Then Trades-Unionsbegan to flourish;then in different in which the workers were formed, Trades-Assemblies industriesunited; and afterthat came National Labor Unions.27 If you considerthischronological you will see thatSocialprogress, and withoutthe aid of foreigners, ismhas sprungup in thatcountry of capital and the changed was merely caused by the concentration and theiremployers." relations betweenthe workmen "what has Socialismdone so "Now," asked your correspondent, far?" "Two things," he returned."Socialistshave shown the general universal strugglebetween capital and labor,-the cosmopolitan in one word,-and consequently tried to bringabout an character, between the workmenin the different countries, understanding as the capitalistsbecame more coswhich became more necessary againstnative labor not mopolitanin hiringlabor, pittingforeign only in America,but in England, France, and Germany.Internain the tional relationssprangup at once betweenthe workingmen a not was Socialism that different countries, merely local, showing but an international problem,to be solved by the international withThe workingclass moved spontaneously, action of workmen. will be. The Socialists whatthe ends of the movement out knowing but merelytell the workmenwhat its charinventno movement, acterand itsendswill be." of the presentsocial system," "Which means the overthrowing I understand.
27 For the growthof the American labor movementafterthe panic of 1857, see Philip S. Foner, History of the Labor Movement in the United States, I, New York, 1947, 2400e.

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of land and capital in the hands of employers, "This system on the one hand," he continued,"and the mere working power in the we claim is merelyan handsof the laborersto sell as a commodity, historicalphase, which will pass away and give place to a higher a divisionof society.The ansocial condition.We see everywhere in hand withthe development hand of two classes the goes tagonism of moderncountries.From a Socialistic resources of the industrial the presenthisthe means alreadyexist to revolutionize standpoint in many countries, have been toricalphase. Upon Trades-Unions, In Americatheneed of an independent builtpoliticalorganizations. They can no longer Workingmen's partyhas been made manifest. trust Ringsand cliques have seizedupon the Legislature, politicians. has been made a trade.But Americais not alone in this, and politics only its people are more decisivethan Europeans.Things come to thanthereis on thesurface quicker.There is lesscantand hypocrisy thisside of theocean." I asked him to give me a reason for the rapid growthof the Socialistic in Germany, whenhe replied: "The present Socialist party partycame last. Theirs was not the Utopian schemewhich made in Franceand England.The Germanmind is givento someheadway than that of other peoples. From previous exmore theorizing, perience the Germansevolved somethingpractical.This modern is quite new in Germanyin you mustrecollect, system, capitalistic other were raisedwhichhad become to States. Questions comparison almostantiquatedin France and England, and political influences to whichtheseStateshad yieldedspranginto lifewhen the working classes of Germanyhad become imbued with Socialistictheories. almostof modernindustrial from the beginning Therefore, development,theyhave formedan independentpolitical party.They had There was no in the GermanParliament. theirown representatives and this devolved the of the to Government, policy party oppose a long time; take would upon them.To tracethecourseof the party were not but I maysay this: that,if the middle classesof Germany from themiddleclassesof Americaand distinct thegreatest cowards, should have England,all the politicalworkagainstthe Government been done by them." the numericalstrength of the I asked him a questionregarding Lassalliansin theranksof the Internationalists. "The partyof Lassalle," he replied, "does not exist. Of course

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in our ranks,but the numberis small.Lasthereare some believers salle anticipatedour general principles.When he commencedto move afterthe reactionof 1848,he fanciedthathe could moresucof the revive the movementby advocatingco-operation cessfully acinto them stir was in It to workingmen industrialenterprises. He looked upon this merelyas a means to the real end of tivity. I have letters him to thiseffect." from the movement. "You would call it his nostrum." told him what he designed, "Exactly.He called upon Bismarck, and BismarckencouragedLassalle's course at that time in every possible way."28 "What was his object?" "He wished to use the workingclasses as a set-off against the the troublesof 1848." middle classeswho instigated of Socialism,Doctor, "It is said thatyou are the head and front revothe and from associations, yourvilla here pull the wiresof all lutions,etc.,now goingon. What do you say about it?" smiled: "I know it. It is veryabsurd,yet it The old gentleman of Hoedet, For two months a comic has side. previousto theattempt I was in that Bismarck complainedin his North GermanGazette29 and that movement, league withFatherBeck,theleaderof theJesuit in such a conditionthathe we werekeepingthe Socialistmovement withit." could do nothing "But your InternationalSocietyin London directsthe movement!" and exists "The International Societyhas outlivedits usefulness of but the growth no longer.It did existand directthe movements has become Socialismof late yearshas been so greatthatitsexistence in the variouscountries. have been started unnecessary. Newspapers the parThat is about the onlyconnection These are interchanged. have withone another.The Internacountries ties in the different was createdto bringthe workin the first tional Society, instance, of effecting and show the advisability men together, organization of each partyin among their various nationalities.The interests The spectreof the Interhave no similarity. countries the different
with Bismarckis well founded. It was con28 The charge that Lassalle worked secretly firmedin 1928 by the discoveryof correspondencebetween Lassalle and Bismarck in which the formerpromised the latter he support of German workers. 29 The name of the journal in German was Norddeutscher Zeitung.

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at London is a mere invention.It is true leaderssitting nationalist orthat we dictatedto foreignsocietieswhen the Internationalist was first We to were forced exclude some ganization accomplished. Sectionsin New York,amongthemone in whichMadam Woodhull That was in 1871. There are severalAmerican was conspicuous.30 I not will name them-who wish to trade in the movepoliticiansment.They are well knownto AmericanSocialists." Dr. Marx,have been creditedwithall "You and yourfollowers, sortsof incendiary speechesagainstreligion.Of course you would root and branch." like to see the whole system destroyed, "We know,"he replied aftera moment'shesitation, "that violentmeasures againstreligionare nonsense;but this is an opinion: as Socialism mustbe religionwill disappear.Its disappearance grows, in which educationmust play a great done by social development, part." "The Rev. JosephCook, of Boston,31you know him-" "We heardof him; a verybadlyinformed man upon the subject of Socialism." "In a lecture lately upon the subject, he said: 'Karl Marx is creditednow with sayingthat,in the United States,and in Great and perhapsin France,a reform of labor will occurwithout Britain, but that blood must be shed in Germany, and in revolution, bloody " and in and in Austria/ Russia, Italy, the Doctor,smiling, "No Socialist," remarked "need predictthat in Russia, Germany, therewill be a bloodyrevolution Austria,and if in the Italians in the policy theyare now keep on possibly Italy
30 "Madam Woodhull" was Victoria Woodhull, who with her sister, Tennessee C. Claflin,was leader of Section 12 of the International in the United States. In 1870 the sisterscreated a sensation by starting a banking and brokerage business and rapidly became known as the "Bewitching Bankers of Wall Street." An advocate of women's rights, including free love, proportional representation,civil service dissolution of corporate monopolies, control of national banks, low rates of reform, interest,conservationof the national domain, direct taxation, national education, an eight hour day, abolition of standing armies, Victoria Woodhull was an advanced thinkerfor her time. In 1872 she ran for President of the United States on a platformwhich incorporatedmany of these demands. But leaders of the International charged Miss Woodhull with using the International for her personal all kinds of malcontentsto the cause. and attracting advancement, 31 Reverend Joseph Cook, a formerHarvard student,was a popular lecturer on secular subjects; his speciality,apart from defendingcapitalism, was reconcilingscience and the Bible.

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The deeds of the French Revolution may be enacted pursuing.32 That is apparentto any politicalstudent. again in thosecountries. No revolution will be made by the majority. But thoserevolutions but by a nation." can be made by a party, alluded to," I remarked, "The reverend "gave an exgentleman tractfroma letterwhichhe said you addressedto the Communists at most.In of Paris in 1871. Here it is: We are as yetbut 3,000,000 Then the perhaps. twenty yearswe shall be 50,000,000,-100,000,000 worldwill belong to us, forit will be not only Paris, Lyons,Marseilles,which will rise againstodious capital, but Berlin, Munich, Brussels,St. Petersburg, Dresden,London, Liverpool, Manchester, New York,-in short,the whole world.And beforethis new insurhas not yet known,the past will disappear such as history rection, kindledat forthe popular conflagration, like a hideous nightmare; its even Now, Doca hundredpointsat once,will destroy memory!' of thatextract?" tor,I supposeyou admit the authorship "I never wrotea word of it. I never writesuch melodramatic nonsense.I am verycarefulwhat I do write.That was put in Le of about thattime.There werehundreds Figaro,overmysignature, about then. I wroteto the London the same kind of letters flying but, if I denied everything Times and declaredtheywere forgeries; I of that has been said and written me, would require a score of secretaries." withthe Paris Communists?" in sympathy "But you have written of them of what was written I have,in consideration "Certainly fromParis in English in leading articles;but the correspondence blunders the to refute sufficient is propagatedin edipapers quite about torials. The Commune killed only sixty people; Marshal There MacMahon and his slaughtering armykilled over 60,000.33 so slanderedas thatof the Commune." has neverbeen a movement "Well, then,to carryout the principlesof Socialismdo its beand bloodshed?" lieversadvocateassassination "has ever been inMarx answered, Karl "No greatmovement,"
of the Italian monarchy at this time to 32 The referenceis probably to the efforts over the greaterpart of Italy. restorethe church's sovereignty 33 In The Civil War in France, Marx wrote of the "carnage with which MacMahon s introductionto Marx's praetorianscelebrated their entrance into Paris," and in his Class Struggle in France, 1848-1850, Engels wrote of Paris having "bled profusely fromthe bullets of MacMahon."

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withoutbloodshed.The independenceof America was augurateci won by bloodshed. Napoleon captured France througha bloody and he was overthrown by the same means. Italy,England, process, and other gives proofof this,and as for every country Germany, on "it he went is not a new thing,I need to assassination," say, say. Orsini triedto kill Napoleon; kingshave killed more scarcely than anybodyelse; the Jesuitshave killed; the Puritanskilled at the timeof Cromwell.These deeds were all done or attempted benow made upon foreSocialismwas known.Everyattempt, however, a Royal or State individual is attributedto Socialism. The Socialistwould regret verymuch the deathof the GermanEmperorat the presenttime. He is veryusefulwherehe is; and Bismarckhas done moreforthe cause thanany otherstatesman, things by driving to extremes." of Bismarck. I asked Dr. Marx what he thought He replied that "Napoleon was considereda genius until he fell; will followin his wake. He bethenhe was called a fool. Bismarck under a the plea of unification. His gan by buildingup despotism imicoursehas been plain to all. The last move is but an attempted tationof a coup d'etat; but it will fail. The Socialistsof Germany, as of France,protested againstthe war of 1870 as merelydynastic. telling the German people that, if they They issued manifestoes allowed the pretendedwar of defenseto be turnedinto a war of of military conquest,theywould be punishedby the establishment of the ruthless the The and masses. oppression productive despotism Social Democraticpartyin Germany, thereuponholding meetings for an honorable peace with France, and publishingmanifestoes and manyof wereat once prosecuted by the PrussianGovernment, dared Still their alone to protest, the leadersimprisoned. Deputies and very too,in the GermanReichstag, againstthe forcevigorously carriedhis of Frenchprovinces. able annexation However,Bismarck a of Bismarck. The of the and genius people spoke policyby force, war was fought, and, when he could make no more conquests,he was called upon fororiginalideas, and he has signallyfailed.The was on the wane. people began to lose faithin him. His popularity a and the Stateneeds it. Under sham Constitution He needsmoney, and unification he has taxed the people forhis military plans until he can tax themno longer,and now he seeksto do it withno Conat all. For the purpose of levyingas he chooses,he has stitution

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in his power raisedthe ghostof Socialism,and has done everything to createan erneute."84 Berlin?" "You have continualadvicesfrom well advised.It is in a perme friends he "Yes," said; "my keep fectly quiet state,and Bismarckis disappointed.He has expelled men,-among them Deputies Hasselmanand forty-eight prominent These and Rakow,Bauman,and Auer,of theFree Presse?* Fritsche, knewthis.He also of Berlinquiet. Bismarck menkepttheworkmen in thatcityupon the verge knew that therewere 75,000 workmen that of starvation. Once those leaderswere gone, he was confident the mob would rise, and that would be the cue for a carnivalof The screwswould then be put upon the whole German slaughter. would then have full Empire; his pet theoryof blood and iron36 sway,and taxationcould be levied to any extent.So farno erneute at the situationand confounded and he standsto-day has occurred, h. the ridiculeof all statesmen." THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE, Jan.5, 1879
outbreak. 34 Riot; disturbance; tumult; rising; in 35 Bismarck's Law, introduced by Bismarck ExceptionalLaw- the anti-Socialist and outlawed socialistorganizations October,1878 (repealed in October,1890)not 48 but of members. for the persecution and provided Actually, publications, have been thrown comrades out,"of which"the "67 of our mostwell-known party had to leave the cityin 48 hours,"wroteAugustBebel in his autobiogmajority the timewith the ChicagoTribuneconfused raphy(Aus MeinemLeben). Probably thenumber ofmenexpelled. for the where Bismarck of the Prussianparliament, 36 In the budgetcommission first timeexplainedsome of his ministerial duties,he came out strongly against but at herpower liberalism doesnotlookat Prussia's theliberals, "Germany saying: whichalready forthe auspicious -Prussia mustkeep her powertogether moment, for the are not favorable has been misseda few times;the Prussianboundaries of the age are not settledby state.The greatquestions of a healthy formation but by ironand blood." of 1848-49votesthiswas the error and majority speeches