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From C.G. Jung, C.G.

Jung Speaking

THE "FACE TO FACE" INTERVIEW

John Freeman's interview with Jung on the BBC television program "Face to Face" has undoubtedly brought Jung to more people than any other piece of journalism and any of Jung's own writings. Freeman and a team led by the producer Hugh Burnett filmed the interview in Jung's house at usnacht in !arch "#$#% and% edited to one&half hour% it was broadcast in 'reat Britain on (ctober ))% "#$#. *ubse+uently% it has often been rebroadcast% and a cinema film version is fre+uently shown by educational organi,ations% Jungian groups% and such. -art of the transcript was published in a different form in Face to Face, edited by Burnett ./ondon% "#012% containing a number of interviews conducted by Freeman.

Freeman was deputy editor of the New Statesman at the time of the interview with Jung. 3hey formed a friendship that continued until Jung's death. /ater% Freeman was editor&in& chief of the New Statesman4 "#0$&05% British High Commisioner to 6ndia4 and "#0#&7"% British 8mbassador to 9ashington.

Because of the success of Jung's interview by Freeman% the ne:t year the BBC re+uested another interview% this time with a psychiatrist about medical problems. Jung declined% because he felt une+ual to the e:ertion and was discouraged by his previous e:perience of interviews by psychologists poorly informed of his wor;. *ee his letter to Burnett% June <=% "#0=% in Letters, ed. 8dler% vol. ).

Professor Jung, how many years have you !ve" !n #h!s ove y house $y #he a%e a# &ur!'h( 6t's just about fifty years.

)o you !ve here now *us# w!#h your se're#ar!es an" your Eng !sh house%ee+er( >es. No 'h! "ren or gran"'h! "ren w!#h you(

(h no% they don't live here% but 6 have plenty of them in the surroundings.

)o #hey 'ome #o see you of#en(


(h yes?

How many gran"'h! "ren have you(


(h% nineteen.

An" grea# gran"'h! "ren( 6 thin; eight% and 6 suppose one is on the way. An" "o you en*oy hav!ng #hem(

9ell% it's nice to feel such a living crowd are out of oneself.

Are #hey afra!" of you, "o you #h!n%(

6 don't thin; so. 6f you would ;now my grandchildren you wouldn't thin; so? 3hey steal my things. @ven my hat that belongs to me they stole the other day.

Now, 'an ! #a%e you $a'% #o your own 'h! "hoo"( 1959)o you remem$er #he o''as!on when you f!rs# fe # 'ons'!ousness of your own !n"!v!"ua se f(

3hat was in my eleventh year. 3here 6 suddenly was on my way to school 6 stepped out of a mist. 6t was just as if 6 had been in a mist% wal;ing in a mist% and 6 stepped out of it and 6 ;new% "6 am." "6 am what 6 am." 8nd then 6 thought% "But what have 6 been beforeA" 8nd then 6 found that 6 had been in a mist% not ;nowing how to differentiate my self from things. 6 was just one thing among other things. "
1

Cf. Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, pp. 32f./44f.

Now was #ha# asso'!a#e" w!#h any +ar#!'u ar e+!so"e !n your !fe, or was !# *us# a norma fun'#!on of a"o es'en'e(

9ell% that's difficult to say. 8s far as 6 can remember% nothing had happened before that would e:plain this sud den coming to consciousness.

,ou ha"n-#, for !ns#an'e, $een .uarre !ng w!#h your +aren#s, or any#h!ng( Bo. Bo. Wha# memor!es have you of your +aren#s( Were #hey s#r!'# an" o "/fash!one" !n #he way #hey $rough# you u+(

(h well% you ;now% they belonged to the later part of the !iddle 8ges. !y father was a parson in the country% and you can imagine what people were then% you ;now% in the seventies of the past century. 3hey had the convictions in which people have lived since one thousand eight hundred years.

How "!" he #ry #o !m+ress #hese 'onv!'#!ons on you( )!" he +un!sh you, for !ns#an'e(

(h no% not at all% no. He was very liberal% and he was most tolerant and most understanding.

Wh!'h "!" you ge# on w!#h more !n#!ma#e y your fa#her or your mo#her(

3hat's difficult to say. (f course% one is always more intimate with the mother% but when it comes to the personal feeling i had a better relation to my father% who was predictable% than with my mother% who was to me a very problematical something.

0o a# any ra#e fear was no# an e emen# !n your re a#!on w!#h your fa#her( Bot at all. )!" you a''e+# h!m as $e!ng !nfa !$ e !n h!s *u"gmen#s( (h no% 6 ;new he was very fallible

The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew

.How o " were you when you %new #ha#(

Bow% let me see. C/ong pause.D -erhaps eleven or twelve years old. 6t was hanging together with the fact that 6 was, that 6 ;new 6 was, and from then on 6 saw that my father was different.

,es1 0o #he momen# of se f/reve a#!on was ' ose y 'onne'#e" w!#h rea !2!ng #he fa !$! !#y of your +aren#s(

>es% one could say so. But 6 reali,ed that 6 had fear of my mother% but not during the day. 3hen she was +uite ;nown to me% and predictable% but in the night 6 had fear of my mother.

An" 'an you remem$er why( Can you remem$er wha# #ha# fear

6 have not the slightest idea why.

Wha# a$ou# your s'hoo "ays now( Were you ha++y a# s'hoo as a s'hoo $oy(

6n the beginning 6 was very happy to have companions% you ;now% because before 6 had been very lonely. 9e lived in the country and 6 had no brother and no sister. !y sister was born very much later% when 6 was nine years old% and so 6 was used to being alone% but 6 missed it E6 missed companyEand in school it was wonderful to have company. But soonEyou ;now in a country school 6 was far aheadE and then 6 began to be bored.

Wha# sor# of re !g!ous u+$r!ng!ng "!" your fa#her g!ve you( (h% we
were *wiss Feformed.

The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew

An" "!" he ma%e you a##en" 'hur'h regu ar y(

(h% well% that was +uite natural. @verybody went to church on *unday.

An" "!" you $e !eve !n 3o"( (h% yes.)o you now $e !eve !n 3o"(

BowA C-ause.D Gifficult to answer. 6 1959%now1 6 don't need to believe. 6 ;now.

We now, #urn!ng #o #he ne4# s#ag!ng +o!n# !n your !fe1 Wha# ma"e you "e'!"e #o $e'ome a "o'#or(

6 reallyEoriginallyE6 wanted to be an archaeologist4 8ssyriology% @gyptology% or something of the sort. 6 hadn't the money4 the study was too e:pensive. *o my second love then belonged to nature% particularly ,oology% and when 6 began my studies 6 inscribed in the so&called -hilosophical Faculty 3woEthat means natural sciences. But then 6 soon saw that the career that was before me would ma;e a schoolmaster of me% you see. But 6 didn'tE6 never thought 6 had any chance to get any further% because we had no money at all. 8nd then 6 saw that that didn't suit my e:pectations% you ;now. 6 didn't want to become a schoolmaster. 3eaching was not just what 6 was loo;ing for. 8nd so 6 remembered that my grandfather had been a doctor% and 6 ;new that when 6 was studying medicine 6 had a chance to study natural science and to become a doctor. 8nd a doctor can develop% you see% he can have a practice% he can choose his scientific interests more or less. 8t all events% 6 would have more chance than being a schoolmaster% also the idea of doing something useful with human beings appealed to me.

An" "!" you, when you "e'!"e" #o $e'ome a "o'#or, have "!ff!'u #y !n ge##!ng #he #ra!n!ng a# s'hoo an" !n +ass!ng #he e4ams(

6 particularly had a difficulty with certain teachers. 3hey didn't believe that 6 could write a thesis. 6 remember one case where the teacher had the custom% the habit% of discussing the papers written by the pupils% and he too; the best first. 8nd 1959he went through the whole number of the pupils and 6 didn't appear% and 6 was badly troubled over it% and 6 thought well% it is impossible that my thesis can be #ha# bad% and when he had finished he saidH "3here is still one paper left over and that is the one by Jung. 3hat would be by far the best paper if it hadn't been copied. He has just copied this somewhereE stolen. >ou are a thief% Jung? 8nd if 6 ;new where you had stolen it 6 would fling you out of school?" 8nd 6 got mad and said this is the one thesis where 6 have wor;ed the most% because the theme was interesting% in contradistinction% you ;now% to other themes which are not at all interesting to me. 8nd then he said% ">ou are a liar% and if we can prove that you have stolen that thing somewhere% then you get out of school.")

Bow that was a very serious thing for me% because what else then% you seeA 8nd 6 hated that fellow% and that was the only man 6 could have ;illed% you ;now% if 6 had met him once at a dar; corner? 6 would have shown him something of what 6 could do.

)!" you of#en have v!o en# #hough#s a$ou# +eo+ e when you were young(

Bo% not e:actly. (nly when 6 got mad. 9ell% then 6 beat them up.

An" "!" you of#en ge# ma"(

Bot so often% but then for good?

,ou were very s#rong an" $!g, I !mag!ne(


1959 >es% 6 was pretty strong% and you ;now% reared in the country with those peasant boys% it was a rough ;ind of life. 6 would have been capable of violence% 6 ;now. 6 was a bit afraid of it% so 6 rather tried to avoid critical situations because 6 didn't trust myself. (nce 6 was attac;ed by about seven boys and 6 got mad% and 6 too; one% and just swang him round by his legs% you ;now% and beat down four of them% and then they were satisfied.

An" were #here any 'onse.uen'es from #ha# af#erwar"s(

(h% 6 should say% yes? From then on it was always sus&

1959

6bid.% pp. 01fl.I7)ff. 8lso "3he 'ifted Child%" C9 "7% par. )<).pected that 6 was at the bottom of every trouble. 6 was not% but they were afraid and 6 was never attac;ed again.

We now, when #he #!me 'ame #ha# you .ua !f!e" as a "o'#or, wha# ma"e you "e'!"e #o s+e'!a !2e !n $e!ng an a !en!s#(

9ell% that is rather an interesting point. 9hen 6 had finished my studies practically% and when 6 didn't ;now what 6 really wanted to do% 6 had a big chance to follow one of my professors. He was called to a new position in !unich% and he wanted me as his assistant. But then in that moment 6 studied for my final e:amination% 6 came across a te:tboo; of psychiatry. Jp to then 6 thought nothing about it% because our professor then wasn't particularly interested% and 6 only read the introduction to that boo;% where certain things were said about psychosis as a maladjustment of the personality. 3hat hit the nail on the head. 6n that moment 6 saw 6 must become an alienist. !y heart was thumping wildly in that moment% and when 6 told my professor 6 wouldn't follow him% 6 would study psychiatry% he couldn't understand it. Bor my friends% because in those days psychiatry was nothing% nothing at all. But 6 saw the one great chance to unite certain contrasting things in myself% namely% besides medicineEbesides natural science 6 always had studied the history of philosophy and such subjects. 6t was just as if suddenly two streams were joining. <

An" how ong was !# af#er you #oo% #ha# "e'!s!on #ha# you f!rs# 'ame !n 'on#a'# w!#h Freu"(

(h% you ;now% that was at the end of my studies% and then it too; +uite a while until 6 met Freud. >ou see% 6'd finished my studies in "#== and 6 met Freud altogether much later. 6n "#== 6 already read his )ream In#er+re#a#!on and the Breuer&Freud studies about hysteria% but

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that was merely literary% you ;now% and then in "#=7 6 became ac+uainted with him personally.

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1959

Memories, Dreams, Reflections, pp. io8f./iii.W! you #e me how #ha# ha++ene"( )!" you go #o V!enna #o mee# h!m(
3

(h well% then 6'd written a boo; about the psychology of dementia praeco:%1 as we called schi,ophrenia then. 8nd 6 sent him that boo;% and thus became ac+uainted. 6 went to Kienna for a fortnight and then we had a very long and penetrating conversation% and that settled it.

An" #h!s ong an" +ene#ra#!ng 'onversa#!on was fo owe" $y +ersona fr!en"sh!+( (h yes% it soon developed into a personal
friendship.

An" wha# sor# of man was Freu"(

9ell% he was a complicated nature% you ;now. 6 li;ed him very much% but 6 soon discovered that when he had thought something then it was settled% while 6 was doubting all along the line% and it was impossible to discuss something really a fon"1 >ou ;now he had no philosophical education% particularly4 you see 6 was studying ant% and 6 was steeped in it% and that was far from Freud. *o from the very beginning there was a discrepancy. $

)!" you !n fa'# grow a+ar# a#er, +ar# y $e'ause of a "!fferen'e !n #em+eramen#a a++roa'h #o e4+er!men# an" +roof an" so on(

9ell% of course% there is always a temperamental differnce% and his approach was naturally different from mine because his personality was different from mine. 3hat led me into my later investigation of psychological types. 3here are definite attitudes. *ome people are doing it in this way and other people are doing it in another #y+!'a way% and there were such differences between myself and Freud% too.

43

The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew )o you 'ons!"er #ha# Freu"-s s#an"ar" e4+er!men#a#!on was ess h!gh #han your own(
4 "The Psychology of Dementia P aeco!," C" 3. 5 #o the meeting $ith # eu%, see Memories, Dreams, Reflections, ch. &, an% The Freud/Jung Letters, p. 24.

of

+roof

an"

9ell% you see% that is an evaluation 6'm not competent of4 6 am not my own history% or my historiographer. 9ith reference to certain results% 6 thin; my method has its merits.

Te me, "!" Freu" h!mse f ever ana y2e you(

(h yes% 6 submitted +uite a lot of my dreams to him% and so did he.

An" he #o you(
>es% oh yes.

)o you remem$er now a# #h!s "!s#an'e of #!me wha# were #he s!gn!f!'an# fea#ures of Freu"-s "reams #ha# you no#e" a# #he #!me(

9ell% that is rather indiscreet to as;. >ou ;now 6 have& there is such a thing as a professional secret.

He-s $een "ea" #hese many years1

>es% but these regards last longer than life. C-ause.D 6 prefer not to tal; about it.

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1959

We , may I as% you some#h!ng e se, #hen, wh!'h +erha+s !s a so !n"!s'ree#1 Is !# #rue #ha# you have a very arge num$er of e##ers wh!'h you e4'hange" w!#h Freu" wh!'h are s#! un+u$ !she"( >es. When are #hey go!ng #o $e +u$ !she"(
9ell% not during my lifetime.

,ou wou " have no o$*e'#!on #o #hem $e!ng +u$ !she" af#er your !fe#!me(
(h% no% none at all.

5e'ause #hey are +ro$a$ y of grea# h!s#or!'a !m+or#an'e1


6 don't thin; so.

Then why have you no# +u$ !she" #hem so far(

Because they were not important enough to me. 6 see no particular importance in them.

They are 'on'erne" w!#h +ersona ma##ers(

9ell% partially. But 6 wouldn't care to publish them. 0

We now, 'an we move on #o #he #!me when you "!" even#ua y +ar# 'om+any w!#h Freu"1 I# was +ar# y, I #h!n y, w!#h #he +u$ !'a#!on of your $oo% -sychology of the Jnconscious.7 Is #ha# 'orre'#(

3hat was the real cause. Bo% 6 mean the final cause% because it had a long preparation. >ou ;now% from the beginning 6 had a reserva#!o men#a !s1 6 couldn't agree with +uite a number of his ideas.

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The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew Wh!'h ones !n +ar#!'u ar(

9ell% chiefly% his purely personal approach% and his disregard of the historical conditions of man. >ou see% we depend largely upon our history. 9e are shaped through education% through the influence of the parents% which is by no means always personal. 3hey were prejudiced% or they were influenced by historical ideas or what are called dominants%5 and that is a most decisive factor in psychology. 9e are not of today or of yesterday4 we are of an immense age.

Was !# no# +ar# y your o$serva#!on, your ' !n!'a o$serva#!on, of +sy'ho#!' 'ases wh!'h e" you #o "!ffer from Freu" on #h!s(

6t was partially my e:perience with schi,ophrenic patients that led me to the idea of certain general historical conditions.

Is #here any one 'ase #ha# you 'an now oo% $a'% on an" fee #ha# +erha+s !# was #he #urn!ng +o!n# of your #hough#(
' (y ag eement of the # eu% an% Jung families, the lette s $e e pu)lishe% in 1*+4. #o an account of the e,ents lea%ing up to pu)lication, see The Freud/Jung Letters, int o%uction, especially pp. !i!-!!!i,. !andlungen und S"m#ole der Li#ido .1*12/. 0e,ise% 1*12 as S"m#ole der !andlung $ S"m#ols of Transformation, C" 1. 8 2nothe te m fo a chetypes.

(h yes% 6 had +uite a number of e:periences of that sort% and 6 went even to 9ashington to study Begroes at the psychiatric clinic there% 0 in order to find out whether they have the same type of dreams as we have% and these e:periences and others led me then to the hypothesis that there is an impersonal stratum in our psyche% and 6 can tell you an e:ample. 9e had a patient in the ward4 he was +uiet but completely

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dissociated% a schi,ophrenic% and he was in the clinic or the ward twenty years. He had come into the clinic as a matter of fact a young man% a little cler; and with no particular education% and once 6 came into the ward and he was obviously e:cited and called to me% too; me by the lapel of my coat% and led me to the window% and saidH "Goctor? Bow? Bow you will see. Bow loo; at it. /oo; up at the sun and see how it moves. *ee% you must move your head% too% li;e this% and then you will see the phallus of the sun% and you ;now% that's origin of the wind. 8nd you see how the sun moves as you move your head% from one side to the other?" (f course% 6 did not understand it at all. 6 thought oh% there you are% he's just cra,y. But that case remained in my mind% and four years later 6 came across a paper written by the 'erman historian% Gieterich% who had dealt with the so&called !ithras /iturgy% a part of the 'reat -arisian !agic -apyrus. 8nd there he produced part of the so&called !ithras /iturgy% namely it had said thereH "8fter the second prayer you will see how the disc of the sun unfolds% and you will see hanging down from it the tube% the origin of the wind% and when you move your face to the regions of the east it will move there% and if you move your face to the regions of the west it will follow you." 8nd instantly 6 ;newEnow this is it? 3his is the vision of my patient?"=
8 2t 3t. 4li5a)eths 6ospital, "ashington, D.C., 3eptem)e Freud/Jung Letters, 323J, n. 2.

1*12. 3ee The

17

C" 1, pa s. 117ft Cf. also C" 8, pa s. 228 an% 318, an% C" * i, pa . 171.

5u# how 'ou " you $e sure #ha# your +a#!en# wasn-# un'ons'!ous y re'a !ng some#h!ng #ha# some$o"y ha" #o " h!m(

(h% no. Luite out of the +uestion% because that thing was not ;nown. 6t was in a magic papyrus in -aris% and it wasn't even published. 6t was only published four years later% "" after 6 had observed it with my patient.

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The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew An" #h!s you fe # +rove" #ha# #here was an un'ons'!ous wh!'h was some#h!ng more #han +ersona (

(h well% that was not a proof to me% but it was a hint% and 6 too; the hint.

Now #e me, how "!" you f!rs# "e'!"e #o s#ar# your wor% on #he +sy'ho og!'a #y+es( Was #ha# a so as a resu # of some +ar#!'u ar ' !n!'a e4+er!en'e(

/ess so. 6t was a very personal reason% namely to do justice to the psychology of Freud% also to that of 8dler% and to find my own bearings. 3hat helped me to understand why Freud developed such a theory. (r why 8dler developed his theory with his power principle.

Have you 'on' u"e" wha# +sy'ho og!'a #y+e you are yourse f(

Baturally 6 have devoted a great deal of attention to that painful +uestion% you ;now?

An" rea'he" a 'on' us!on(

9ell% you see% the type is nothing static. 6t changes in the course of life% but 6 most certainly was characteri,ed by thin;ing. 6 always thought% from early childhood on% and 6 had a great deal of intuition too. 8nd 6 had a definite difficulty with feeling% and my relation to reality was not particularly brilliant. 6 was often at variance with the

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1959

11 2l) echt Diete ich8s %tne Mithrasliturgie actually $as pu)lishe% fi st in the yea 1*73, )efo e the %elusion $as o)se ,e%. 3ee "The Concept of the Collecti,e 9nconscious," C" * i, pa . 171, n. 1.

reality of things. Bow that gives you all the necessary data for a diagnosis?

)ur!ng #he n!ne#een #h!r#!es, when you were wor"!ng a o# w!#h 3erman +a#!en#s, you "!", I $e !eve, fore'as# #ha# a se'on" wor " war was very !%e y1 We now, oo%!ng a# #he wor " #o"ay, "o you fee #ha# a #h!r" wor " war !s !%e y(

6 have no definite indications in that respect% but there are so many indications that one doesn't ;now what one sees. 6s it trees% or is it the wood A 6t's very difficult to say% because people's dreams contain apprehensions% you ;now% but it is very difficult to say whether they point to a war% because that idea is uppermost in people's minds. Formerly% you ;now% it has been much simpler. -eople didn't thin; of a war% and therefore it was rather clear what the dreams meant. Bowadays no more so. 9e are so full of apprehensions% fears% that one doesn't ;now e:actly to what it points. (ne thing is sure. 8 great change of our psychological attitude is imminent. 3hat is certain.

An" why(

Because we need moreEwe need more psychology. 9e need more understanding of human nature% because the only real danger that e:ists is man himself. He is the great danger% and we are pitifully unaware of it. 9e ;now nothing of man% far too little. His psyche should be studied% because we are the origin of all coming evil.

43

The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew )oes man, "o you #h!n%, nee" #o have #he 'on'e+# of s!n an" ev! #o !ve w!#h( Is #h!s +ar# of our na#ure( 9ell% obviously.

An" of a re"eemer( 3hat is an inevitable


conse+uence.

Th!s !s no# a 'on'e+# wh!'h w! "!sa++ear as we $e'ome more ra#!ona 6 !#-s some#h!ng wh!'h7

9ell% 6 don't believe that man ever will deviate from the original pattern of his being. 3here will always be such ideas. For !ns#an'e% if you do not directly believe in a personal redeemer% as it was the case with Hitler% or the hero&worship in Fussia% then it is an idea% it is a symbolic idea.

,ou have wr!##en, a# one #!me an" ano#her, some sen#en'es wh!'h have sur+r!se" me a !## e, a$ou# "ea#h1 Now, !n +ar#!'u ar I remem$er you sa!" #ha# "ea#h !s +sy'ho og!'a y *us# as !m+or#an# as $!r#h an" !%e !# !#-s an !n#egra +ar# of !fe1 5u# sure y !# 'an-# $e !%e $!r#h !f !#-s an en", 'an !#(

>es% if it's an end% and there we are not +uite certain about this end% because you ;now there are these peculiar faculties of the psyche% that it isn't entirely confined to space and time. >ou can have dreams or visions of the future% you can see around corners% and such things. (nly ignorance denies these facts% you ;now4 it's +uite evident that they do e:ist% and have e:isted always. Bow these facts show that the psyche% in part at least% is not dependent upon these confinements. 8nd then whatA 9hen the psyche is not under that obligation to live in time and space alone% and obviously it doesn't% then to that e:tent the psyche is not subjected to those laws% and that means a practical con&

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tinuation of life% of a sort of psychical e:istence beyond time and space.

)o you yourse f $e !eve #ha# "ea#h !s +ro$a$ y #he en", or "o you $e !eve #ha#7

9ell% 6 can't say. >ou see% the word belief is a difficult thing for me. 6 don't believe. 6 must have a reason for a certain hypothesis. @ither 6 ;now a thing% and then 6 ;now itE6 don't need to believe it. 6 don't allow myself% for instance% to believe a thing just for the sa;e of believing it. 6 can't believe it. But when there are sufficient reasons for a certain hypothesis% 6 shall accept .. . naturally. 6 should sayH "9e had to rec;on with the possibility of so and so"Eyou ;now.

We now, you-ve #o " us #ha# we shou " regar" "ea#h as $e!ng a goa 7

>es.

7an" #ha# #o shr!n% away from !# !s #o eva"e !fe an" ma%e !fe +ur+ose ess1

>es.

Wha# a"v!'e wou " you g!ve #o +eo+ e !n #he!r a#er !fe #o ena$ e #hem #o "o #h!s, when mos# of #hem mus# !n fa'# $e !eve #ha# "ea#h !s #he en" of every#h!ng(

43

The "Fa'e #o Fa'e" In#erv!ew


9ell% you see% 6 have treated many old people% and it's +uite interesting to watch what the unconscious is doing with the fact that it is apparently threatened with a complete end. 6t disregards it. /ife behaves as if it were going on% and so 6 thin; it is better for an old person to live on% to loo; forward to the ne:t day% as if he had to spend centuries% and then he lives properly. But when he is afraid% when he doesn't loo; forward% he loo;s bac;% he petrifies% he gets stiff and he dies before his time. But when he's living and loo;ing forward to the great adventure that is ahead% then he lives% and that is about what the unconscious is intending to do. (f course% it's +uite obvious that we're all going to die% and this is the sad finale of everything4 but nevertheless% there is something in us that doesn't believe it apparently. But this is merely a fact% a psychological factEit doesn't mean to me that it proves something. 6t simply is so. For instance% 6 may not ;now why we need salt% but we prefer to eat salt% because we feel better. 8nd so when you thin; in a certain way you may feel considerably better% and 6 thin; if you thin; along the lines of nature then you thin; properly.

An" #h!s ea"s me #o #he as# .ues#!on #ha# ! wan# #o as% you1 As #he wor " $e'omes more #e'hn!'a y eff!'!en# !# seems !n'reas!ng y ne'essary for +eo+ e #o $ehave 'ommuna y an" 'o e'#!ve y1 Now "o you #h!n% !# +oss!$ e #ha# #he h!ghes# "eve o+men# of man may $e #o su$merge h!s own !n"!v!"ua !#y !n a %!n" of 'o e'#!ve 'ons'!ousness(

3hat's hardly possible. 6 thin; there will be a reaction. 8 reaction will set in against this communal dissociation. >ou ;now% man doesn't stand for ever his nullification. (nce there will be a reaction% and 6 see it setting in. >ou ;now% when 6 thin; of my patients% they all see; their own e:istence and to assure their e:istence against that complete atomi,ation into nothingness% or into meaninglessness. !an cannot stand a meaningless life.

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