December 6, 2006 Re: Latin Mass I asked Father about having a Latin Mass in the parish.

His first reaction was to cringe and refer back to the parish council meeting which had the heated discussion about the Our Father in Latin. His comment to me was a refrain of what he had said at other times that if the! ob"ected to the Our Father in Latin# there is no wa! the! would accept the Latin Mass. I told him that I had been at that discussion# and most of the ob"ectors based their comments on the wa! the Latin was introduced. He said that was a $smokescreen.% &I took him to be impl!ing that the! had other reasons for re"ecting the Latin# and that for those same reasons would more vehementl! oppose the Latin Mass. 'ssuming he and I are thinking of the same reasons# namel! revolutionar! reasons# then that is actuall! a good sign# in the sense that he ma! have been impl!ing that he sees the revolutionar! intent# and even that he does not share it. (et if he sees those as the real reasons for ob"ecting to the Latin Mass# his action in the end was to back down in the face of a revolutionar! mob a small one# but the same techni)ue of rabble rousing# then an emotional sloganeering confrontation then that is not good.* I responded that I had spoken directl! to those most opposed# and suggested to them directl! that we have a Latin Mass at the parish# and that the! had no ob"ection. Father was surprised b! this# and commented that it ma! be because of some innate regional conservatism. I asked if we could have a Latin Mass at the parish# and he asked if I meant the +ovus Ordo or the traditional Mass. I said the latter. He asked if I meant a ,unda! Mass# and he frowned as he said it as if that would be too much to ask. I said an! da! of the week. -he conversation began to go to a .:/0am Mass# but then I suggested a ,aturda! morning Mass. He liked that# and mentioned that now there is no Mass at that time. I asked if he knew how to sa! that Mass# and he said no# it would have to be someone else. 1e would have to bring in a priest# perhaps from 2lmhurst. &+ote he knew were the F,,3 location is# without even mentioning the order.* Father did not sa! that I would have to get a priest to come in# rather he was ambiguous about how that would happen it could even be understood to mean that he would arrange for the priest. 1e would also have to get permission from the diocese. He said that he would call the diocese# and that if I didn4t hear back from him in a few da!s I should follow up with him. 't this point 5hristopher came up and commented that back in ,eattle# people who were not dressed properl! got hauled to the rector! for lecture on proper dress and respect. Father 1ear! said that he would loose parishioners that wa!# and that here in 6anville the! leave for all sorts of reasons# and there are several nearb! parishes to which one can go. Father children4s Mass at 5hristmas eve# the children will come round the altar# Father will give a sermon directed to them. $+ot ver! -ridentine.% 7athr!n I have seen this ver! thing at a traditional Mass. Fairl! soon after this he also referred to something else as not being $-ridentine%. I took this to be a wa! of pigeonholing our approach to things# i.e. !ou are this t!pe of 5atholic# whereas we are another t!pe &+ovus Ordo* or perhaps even $we are not of a t!pe but universal.% He asked if this was a -ridentine parish in ,eattle# and I said no# it was a +ovus Ordo parish. I noted that actuall! when Fr. 8 came in# there were altar girls# and Fr. 8 changed back to altar bo!s onl!. Father smiled at that# and ma! have made some comment that that wouldn4t

work here. I commented that one need not do this in an abrupt wa! that it could begin with having one Mass with onl! altar bo!s# then at a particular date stop recruiting9accepting new girls as altar servers# et cetera. Father said# $I love m! altar girls.% He added that he loves the bo!s also. &'fterwards# as 7athr!n and I spoke# I reali:ed the right approach there would have been to sa! that we love them too# but this "ust wasn4t the right service for them. Ironicall!# 5hristopher made this ver! point on the wa! home.* 7athr!n asked where the girls went from here# and Father responded that it could be hoped that the! would be called to be nuns. 7athr!n made the point that in the past priestl! vocations have disproportionatel! come from the ranks of altar bo!s. ,he recalled in particular Father4s sermon on the feast of the 'ssumption about coming home# and that Father himself had mentioned that becoming an altar bo! had been crucial in his vocation. ,he also pointed out that altar bo!s come from the minor order of acol!te. Father responded that he talks to the bo!s directl! about vocations. He also said that there are about fift! altar servers# about evenl! split between bo!s and girls. I commented that it seems that about ;<= of the serving is done b! the girls. He said that I ma! think this because of coming to one Mass on the weekend# whereas he sees them all. He said it would be an interesting stud!. He added that Mr. >obber is also at ever! Mass# and that perhaps he would be a good one to do the stud!. &-his was more a musing than serious.* I asked when the parish began to have altar girls. Father thought about it# and said he thought it started "ust a few !ears before he came to the parish in ?@@; right in line with the ?@@A permission from the Batican. &It was m! impression that he was "ust guessing. 's I noted afterwards to 7athr!n# it would be significant if it started prior to that# because it would show that it was done in defiance of the then current tradition and liturgical legal interpretation.* Father made the point that since women can participate as 22Ms# as lectors# et cetera# and these are all service at the altar# there is no logical reason wh! the! should not serve as altar servers. I noted that this brought up the whole issue of 22Ms in general# and that I recalled a ?@@; communication about them that said there were onl! three reasons to have them at all. -wo reasons were ver! specific# but the third had the loophole of an $unreasonable or undue prolongation of the Mass.% Father said that was certainl! the case here since he would be overwhelmed if he gave communion alone. I commented that I had never been to a &+ovus Ordo* Mass an!where where there were not 22Ms# even at a Mass with onl! twent! people. Father said he onl! uses one at the dail! Mass# for the cup. I noted that the ?@@; communication talks of an undue duration# and that since the cup is not re)uired# this should go from the liturg!. Father said that there was a Batican II document that said that receiving communion under both kinds was $ideal% I pressed him on it# but he could not recall it. &Of course# this still begs the )uestion. If he alone gave the cup at a Mass in the chapel# would the Mass be $undul! prolonged%C If so# against what standard i.e. would that prolongation be measured against the standard of a short morning Mass# when people want to leave )uickl!C For eDample# the 1ednesda! evening Mass is onl! /0 minutes. 1ould it be $undul! prolonged% if the one 22M was not there# and onl! Father gave communionC*

I believe it was at this point that the children pulled Father over to the kitchen. 's 7athr!n confirmed later# it was clear that there was definitel! a rising energ! there in the conversation it was definitel! getting to be a back and forth. 'fter Father went into the kitchen# 7athr!n and I spoke for a time. In particular she noted that the push for altar girls was preceded b! girls as candle bearers and lectors. 1hen Father came out of the kitchen# 7athr!n readied her children to go# so I left also. 1e thanked Father and all was cordial as we left. I walked the 5ecchis to their car# and 7athr!n and I continued our conversation. 7athr!n eDpressed some surprise at Father4s comments. First# that he should so blithel! agree to ask for permission to have the Latin Mass. For both of us# this seemed surprisingl! eas! to get to apparentl! we both assumed he would not take this step without some persuading. E2speciall! since his comments on F9?<90< were that he had permission to sa! it# "ust needed to stud! the Latin in 3hiladelphia# but never has time to do so.G ,econd# that he seemed so blithel! to support altar girls there was no hesitation# and also no reasoning given# "ust an appeal to sentiment. 's 7athr!n put it# this felt like he was dropping a big rock it "ust hits with a thud and one stands openHmouthed in ama:ement at it.