Transcript of the Testimony of Mitchell D.

Randles
Date: November 15, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 30, 2013

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Mitchell D. Randles

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 1

IN RE:

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

MITCHELL D. RANDLES

Taken on Friday, November 15, 2013, from 10:17 a.m. to 10:41 a.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

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In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 2

APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065

tellaw@loraineandassociates.com

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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.

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Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A.

5-13

Advice of Rights

Note:

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

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Mitchell D. Randles

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. MITCHELL D. RANDLES Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Sir, would you state your name? Mitchell D. Randles. That's with an S? R-A-N-D-L-E-S. Not two L's? No, sir. Mitchell Randles, I've explained a little bit of the Advice of Rights form, it's marked as Exhibit #A. read that? Yes, sir. And I'm going to read it because I said I would. "I wish to advise you that you are Have you had an opportunity to It's like Candles with an R.

being questioned as part of an official investigation by the City of Joplin. will be asked questions related and specifically directed to the performance of your official duties of fitness for office. You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by the laws of the Constitution of the State and the You

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In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Constitution of the United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself. I further wish to advise you that

if you refuse to testify or to answer questions relating to the performance of your official duties, you will be subject to department charges, which could result in your dismissal from your official duties. you do answer these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequent departmental charges, but not in any subsequent criminal proceedings. I have read If

and fully understand the Advice of Rights as it appears above. This information has also

been read to me prior to answering any questions." Did you understand that and have

an opportunity to thoroughly review this document? Yes, sir. And as I understand it you have heard of Garrity, you sort of understand what this is all about? Yes, sir. So having said that would you execute this Exhibit #A for me with printing your name a

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In Re:

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Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. little bit above the signature line and then dating it? (Witness complies) Sure. And, sir, have you

The date is the 15th.

complied with my request by executing this document on Exhibit #A? Yes, sir. I'm going to witness your signature, sir. Fire Chief, you're head of the department? Yes, sir. And your department, who is your direct supervisor? That would be Mark Rohr. The City Manager? Correct. Similar to the Police Chief? Correct. Do you and the Police Chief have any particular social relationship? Social, no, sir. What about you and Mr. Rohr? No, sir. How long have you been employed, sir, in your capacity? As Fire Chief three years.

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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. And were you with the department before that? A. Yes, sir.

And this is a City department? That's correct. As opposed to a fire district? That's correct. How long have you been with the district? A little over 22 years. So this department 22 years? Yes, sir. So would you say you came up through the ranks? That's correct, yes, sir. Do you consider yourself fairly knowledgeable about City politics? Somewhat. I try to avoid them when possible,

but I am aware of some of the City politics that goes on, yes, sir. I'm going to direct your attention, if I may, did you talk to anybody concerning your testimony here today? No, sir. Do you know why you're here? No, sir. Sir, we are conducting a confidential

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In Re:

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Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. examination of witnesses and to that end I'd appreciate it when you leave you do not involve yourself in a discussion of what occurred here. Yes, sir. I appreciate that and hopefully that will not occur. Sir, in regards to your job as Fire

Chief a new station was built? Yes, sir. And where was that station located? Fire Station No. 6 is at 5302 West 32nd Street. Is that the most recent fire station? It's the most recent one that's currently occupied. I have two others under

construction right now, one is at 2825 West Junge Boulevard, and the other is at 3402 South Hearnes Boulevard. So let's talk about the one that's occupied. Yes, sir. When was that station built? We started construction on that in 2011, I believe July, and we occupied that in April of 2012. And I call that Fire Station 6?

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Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. That would be correct, yes, sir. In the procurement of the funds to build these fire stations where did that money come from? For Fire Station No. 6 that was the public safety tax that was passed by voters in 2006. So it was a tax that was paid for by citizens? Correct. Authorized by the City Council? Correct. Money would be appropriated, I assume, by the City Manager. Yes, sir. So when the funds are written it's the City Manager that says to write those funds? Well, with a project that large it has to go through the Council as well, so obviously we put it in the budget, but when the purchase order or the contract for the construction of that facility comes to light because of the dollar amount it would go before the Council and be voted on by Council as well. Okay. Now would that be true of all money Is that a correct statement?

spent on that particular firehouse?

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Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Of all money? No, sir.

Why would there be exceptions to the City Council actually reviewing money spent? Like the purchase of the appliances would be under the amount that would be required City Council approval for that so we would just purchase those on our own out of the budget for that. The building of the facility of

course was all under City Council review, but certain individual items that would go inside it would not go before City Council review because of the dollar amount. And what is the dollar amount? To my understanding it's $100,000.00. But any money spent towards that firehouse should be taken from that budget? That would be correct. And if it weren't taken from that budget it would be difficult to audit? That would be correct. So I'm going to ask you specifically, I'd like to direct your attention to the sewer on that particular fire district, -Okay. -- do you recall a method of trying to save

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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. money on that? I think your budget was

pretty tight, wasn't it? As all City budgets are, yes, sir. And the effort was to save money as I understand it. Okay. Is that right? About the sewer I have really no idea what happened there. I don't know if there was an I wasn't

effort to save money there or not.

involved with the installation of the sewer. When I say sewer I'd like to talk about the drainage area that became a sewer line, okay? Is that what we're making discussion with? Yes. Is 13th Street, is that the station we're talking about? No, sir. Let's go back and talk about 13th Street. Okay, that would be Junge Boulevard. Let's talk about that. Perhaps I

misunderstood something as we went through it. If I could direct your attention to that

fire station, when was that fire station built?

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Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. It's currently under construction. recall correctly we started actual construction on it approximately April of this year and are looking for completion of that somewhere in December. Is that the fire station that was, my prior questions about your other Station No. 6, would it be also true this is also under budget? Yes, it would have a budget, yes, sir. And what is the station number we're talking about on 13th Street? That would be Fire Station 2. A replacement If I

for a tornado destroyed building. Let's talk about Station No. 2. Okay. Do you recall an item concerning Station No. 2 and the sewer pipe that involves that station? Somewhat, yes. Do you have any knowledge about - do you know Dan Johnson? I do. He's an engineer? Uh-huh.

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Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. P.E., isn't he, Professional Engineer? I believe so, yes. And he works for the City? That's correct. Did he design a storm water system for Station No. 2? Did he design it? I don't believe so. I

believe Tri-State Engineering designed it. Do you know anything about a culvert -Uh-huh. -- he designed? Who did the actual design work I don't know. My understanding is Tri-State Engineering designed all of the storm water drainage that goes there. It's my understanding that Dan

did not design that, but has been in charge of the installation of it. In any case let's talk about the method of the storm water disposal at that station. Okay. Do you recall a conversation with Dan Johnson about a certain area that would be concreted and would become a partial lake or holding pond compound for water? No, sir.

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Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Do you recall any discussion concerning the purchase of a culvert? I do know that a culvert was purchased for that facility, yes, sir. And that culvert was not the design that was originally intended for that. Is that true? And I'm

Well, for the storm water runoff?

trying to figure out what you're asking exactly here. For the culvert part of it I Now

believe this is the original design.

there was a previous design for storm water runoff at that station that was seen by Jack Schaller, another engineer, as potentially not being beneficial because we would lose the entire use of that property so it was proposed by Jack Schaller and myself to the City Manager to do this concrete culvert and redirection of the storm water so we could potentially in the future sell of that other property. The base of the property would have been moist? Correct. And therefore if it's moist it would require extra pilings to build on? Is that the

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Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. issue? Correct, yeah, it required a significant amount of ground work so that the station would be stable. Was that property ultimately sold? No, we're not done with it yet. Once all of

the work is done there it could potentially be sold if someone was interested in it. And do you have any knowledge that the original design not including the concrete culvert would have been cheaper? any knowledge of that? I'm sure it would have been, yes, because there was no culvert, it was just basically dumping into a large open area, so yes, I'm sure it would have been. I don't have direct Do you have

knowledge of the price differences, but I'm sure it would have been, yes, sir. Do you know how the money was procured to purchase that culvert? It's my understanding it came from the storm water funds that were left over from a previous tax. Who told you that? Jack Schaller and I believe Dan Johnson.

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Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. So you're telling me that money was not appropriated to the City Council for their approval? That I do not know. The storm water portion

of that, I have very limited involvement in because I'm not an engineer, you know, I'm just not a storm water person. Didn't make any difference to you which way it was done? No, that's correct. You could care less? I'm not knowledgeable enough to give an opinion on what's the best way to do it. You realize that one way is cheaper than the other way? I'm certain it was. And the one way that would be cheaper would save the City money? Potentially I assume that can be correct. As far as what went into the decision to go one way or the other you have no knowledge? It was presented to the City Manager by Jack Schaller and myself of this option that we've done with the drainage culvert and the construction that's going on at this point

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Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. rather than just dumping it into the field. Well, dumping it into the field was not ever an issue, was it? Before the culvert wasn't

that an impoundment of water of some sort? I don't believe so, no. Are you telling me you recommended the additional costs to this project? Yes. Well, I was one person that did. I

thought it would be a good idea. And who else recommended that? Jack Schaller. Was City Manager Rohr acceptable with the additional funds being spent? That's correct. And how did he get the money? That I don't know. So you don't know where that additional source of money came from? No, sir. Anybody talk to you prior to coming in here today? No, sir. You have no engineering training whatsoever? I mean I've had some classes, but I am not an engineer or - I've been through some classes

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Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. that engineers go through, but I'm not an engineer in any way, shape, or form. And you don't purport to be? those kind of decisions? No, sir. Where is Jack Schaller today? I'm sorry? Is Jack Schaller still with the City? No, sir. Where is he at? I believe he works for Olson & Associates, a private civil engineer firm. Have you talked with him about this? No, sir. Why is Jack not with the City? He has personal reasons for leaving the City. Q. Do you know what they were? I mean he was unhappy about You don't make

Just hearsay.

the rework of Public Works. What does that mean unhappy? he tell you? That's about it. I mean I didn't go into What else did

great detail with him. What's the rumors concerning his leaving the City?

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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. The only rumors that I heard is just basically he didn't feel like he'd be able to obtain the Public Works Director's position so he left. And who has the Public Works Director's position? That would be Nick Heatherly now. Who had it before? David Hertzberg. Where is David Hertzberg? He is still employed by the City in another position. it is. So he lost his position? That's my understanding. What was the reason for that? I do not know. Have no knowledge? about it? Anything I've talked to him about just is just basic chit chat of the day and to tell him that, you know, hey, miss seeing you on a routine basis. Do you have a social relationship with Hertzberg? Never talked with him I couldn't tell you exactly what

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Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. No, sir. Try to stay away from City employees when you have social relationships? No, I don't necessarily try to stay away from them, I just don't have a lot of social relationships with City employees. Okay. And once again you do not know whether

the City authorized the additional funds, the City Council? I do not, no, sir. Do you know how that account was handled? No, sir. Should that account for the additional funds, should that be earmarked for that particular budget? Once again I don't honestly know. I know it

was not part of the original tax that was done for storm water drainage. I know it was

leftover funds from the tax that was either collected in excess of or products came in cheaper and that's why they had the extra money to be able to do that, but as far as how it's accounted for or who tracks it or what have you, I have no knowledge of that. I mean you're a department head.

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Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Correct. You'd expect that a budget is set up. You'd

expect any expenditures towards that budget item to be somehow directed to that budget, wouldn't you, by number or something? Correct. I mean that would be correct auditing for City work, wouldn't it? Yes, I would agree. So we would assume somehow that would be addressed to that so that an auditor could later determine how the money was spent? Correct. And you don't have any knowledge about any of that? No. The additional funds that were spent, do you consider that an improvement over the original design? Yes. That's your personal opinion? Correct. But not an engineering opinion? Correct. Now Mr. Schaller, do you know what his

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Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. position was on that point? I believe it would be the same because he's the one that came up with the idea of putting the culvert in and redirecting that storm water. So if I need to talk with Jack Schaller about that he would tell me the same thing you did? I would assume so, yes. I would like to admonish you this is an investigation that is confidential, we're behind closed doors, and I would direct you not to discuss this with anybody at any time. And if somebody wants to discuss it with you would you call me and let me know? Sure. You can get hold of me through a card, I'll give you one, but part of my job is to finish this investigation in a confidential manner and I'd like to do. card, sir. All right. Now as far as departmental heads who is your direct supervisor? Mark Rohr, the City Manager. Is there anything in the nature of your Here is my business

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In Re:

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Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. relationship socially with Mr. Rohr? No. Is there anything in the nature of your relationship with Mr. Rohr that I should know concerning the way he runs business or anything else? No, I guess not. If I was going to make any

statement about the way he conducts business I've heard the comments that he runs the City by fear and what have you, and I have never spent a day scared of him or any of his actions. That rumor has circulated in the City for some -Oh, it's been all over the media. I mean

it's been made in the media several times that he manages by fear. What media that was in? Newspaper, radio. Is that the Globe? That's one. Any other newspaper that was in? That I don't know. I heard that rumor and I'm wondering what was the source of that, if you knew?

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Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Well, two Council people have said that in open Council meetings. Who is that? Bill Scearce would be one and Dr. Rosenberg would be the other. As far as you're concerned there's nothing in the relationship that you have with City Manager Rohr that would indicate there would be any truth to that? No, sir, like I say I have never been fearful of him. Thank you. Appreciate you coming in here.

Keep us quiet. Yes, sir. Thank you for coming over, and you're done, Chief. Thank you.

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 15th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

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