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LF &19 C(J ,
GRANTING REMAINING UNRESERVED
PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES
L IlL'l.l1 R Y'
Wrfll'F Q 'j"'Y" () I UT HI
HEARIN Oll'Y
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS AND SURVEYS
UNITED STATES SENATE
SEVENTY-SECOND CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
s. 17, 2272, and S. 4060
BILLS PROPOSING TO GRANT 'VACANT UNRESERVED
UNAPPROPRIATED LANDS TO ACCEPTING STATES
AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES
MARCH 15, 16, 19, 24, 29, AND 31, AND APRIL 1 AND 5, 1982
WITH INDEX
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Public Lands and Surveys
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON: 1932
OOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS AND SURVEYS
GERALD P. NY]], North Dakota, Ohairman
REED SMOOT, Utah.
PETER NORBECK, South Dakota.
TASKER L. ODD IE, Nevada.
PORTER H. DALE, Vermont.
BRONSON CUTTING, New Mexico.
FREDERICK STEIWER, Oregon.
ROBERT D. CAREY, Wyoming.
K]]Y PITTMAN, Nevada.
JOHN B. KENDRICK, Wyoming.
THOMAS J. WALSH, Montaua.
HENRY F. ASHURST, Arizona.
ROBERT F. WAGNER, New York.
C. ' C . DILL, Washington.
SAJlI G. BRATTON, New Mexico.
D. H. McARTHUR, OIerk
INGHAM G. MACK, AII8i8tant Olerk
II
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OONTENTS
TUESDAY, MARCH 15, 1932
S. 2272 (Mr. Nye, by request-commission bill) _______________________ _
S. ,4060 (Mr. Walsh of Montana) _____________________________________ _
S.17 (Mr. KiUg) ____________________________________________________ _
Letter from Secretary of the Interior, under date of March 14, 1932 ____ _
Letter from Secretary of the Interior, under date of March 14, 1932,
inclosing memorandum discussing some of the details involved in
tl. 2272 __________________________________________________ ----------
.statement of Hon. George ,H. Dern, Governor of Utah. before the House
Oommittee on the Public Lands, February 13, ________________ _
James R. Garfield, chairman Oommittee on the Oonservation and AdminiS-
tration of the Public Domain. statement oL ________________________ _
WEDNESDAY, MAROH 16, 1932
James R. Garfield, chairman Committee on the Conservation and AdminiS-
Page.
1
5
9
9
10
26
75
tration of the Public Domain, statement of-resumed________________ 87
SATURDAY, MARCH 19, 1932
James R. Garfield, chairman Oommittee on the Oonservation and Admlnis-
tration of the Public Domain, further statement oL_________________ 109
W. B. Greeley, secretary West Ooast Lumbermen's ASSOCiation, Seattle,
Wash., statement oL_______________________________________________ 117
MARCH 24, 1932
Byron O. Beall, chairman New Mexico State Tax Oommission, Santa Fe,
N. Mex., statement of______________________________________________ 130
Thomas Oooper, president Wyoming Wool Growers' ASSOCiation, repre-
senting Wyoming Wool Growers' Association and Wyoming Agricul-
tural Oouncil, statement oL________________________________________ 139
Perry W. Jenkins, representing the American National Live Stock Asso-
ciati,<ln, statement oL______________________________________________ 147
Letter from Hugh A. Brown, executive secretary Oommittee on the Con-
servation and Admimstration of the Public Domain, under date of
March 22, 1932, inclOSing statements and tables relative to the surveyed
and unsurveyed lands______________________________________________ 161
Perry W. Jenkins, representing the American National Live Stock Asso-
Ciation, statement of-resumed_____________________________________ 165
Hon. Oharles E. Winter, Gasper. Wyo., statement oL___________________ 175
Franklin Reed, executive secretary SOCiety of American Foresters,
Washington, D. C., statement of____________________________________ 192
TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 1932
Letter from Secretary of the Interior, under date of Marcn 26, 1932,
regarding S. 4060 ______ ,____________________________________________ 195
n. Y. Stuart, chief forester, Department of Agriculture, Washington,
D. C., statement of _____ , _________________ 202
G. H. OOllingwood, forester for the Amertcan Forestry Association, Wash-
ington, D.O., statement oL_________________________________________ 21<0
m
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66 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIO LANDS TO STATES
The hardest fought battle has been over the question of'subsurface rights.
With the passing of the minerals great values will be seen to accure to the
State. The lands already received by Wyoming from the Federal Government
have yielded a vast revenue. When we consider what will be transferred with
twenty-five or twenty-six million acres, the value seems overwhelming. There
should be no question at all that the State should accept the grant, but with
the ownership will come grave responsibilities and added obligations. To ad-
minister these immense values for the benefit of the whole people and not for
prIvate interests will reqUire statesmen of the highest order.
The surface value alone will ultimately yield at least $20,00(},000. The sub-
surface values, if we give full credit to the report of the Geological Survey,
amounts to billions of dollars and should the State continue the policy of the
Federal Government in exacting a royalty on these minerals an endowment
fund can be built up that will go a long way toward supporting the State
government when these minerals shall be developed and utilized.
Such argument may appeal to those who are not interested in the sovereign
rights of their State. Many of the States have so long leaned upon Uncle Sam
that they feel incapable of being self-sustaining. They would leave the ad-
ministration of the public lands in the hands of the Federal Government in
order to receive the doles that are incident to Government control.
Senator CAREY. I would like to insert and have made a part of the
record House Joint Memorial No.2, adopted by the twentieth legis-
lature, special session, -of Wyoming, in December, 1929; also senate
joint memorial passed by the Wyoming Legislature in 1929; also a
statement by Perry W. Jenkins, in regard to this subject.
The CHAIRMAN. They will be made a part of the record.
(The papers referred to are as follows:)
HOUSE JOINT MEMORIAL No.2 ADOPTED BY 'l'HE TWENTIETH LEGISLATURE (Sl'ECIAL
SESSION) OF WYOMING, DECEMBER, 1929
Memoralizing the President and the Congress of the United States to cede to the
States all unappropriated public -lands together with subsurface minerals
and other natural resources
December 14, 1929, introduced.
December 14, 1929, read first time.
December 14, 1929, referred to committee of the whole.
December 14, 1929, delivered to printing committee.
Whereas the President of the United States, the Hon. Herbert Hoover, be-
lieves that the most eflieientpolicy of administration of the remaining unre-
served and unappropriated public lands can be obtained through the operation
of State rather than Federal control and to this end has suggested that these
unreserved and unappropriated public lands be ceded to the 11 public-land
States in which they are situated; and
Whereas Wyoming has demonstrated by a wise administrative policy of its
State lands the feasibility of the President's proposal that those in close touch
and sympathy with the task are best qualified to execute a policy looking to
the best interests of the people of the State and the United States i and
Whereas we are in hearty accord with the President of the United States
in his wise policy of simplifying the National Government through the utiliza-
tion of State agencies in handling the problems and administration of those
policies in which the States are directly interested: Therefore be it
Resolved, 'hat we, the Twentieth Wyoming Legislature, in special session
assembled, -express to _the President our appreCiation of hIS statesmanlike and
sympathetic understanding of this subject so vital to the development of the
public-land States and that we pledge our support to the President, the
Secretary of the Interior, and to the Commission on Administration and Con-
servation of the public domain in studying the proposal and its effect upon
each State and the National Government: be it
Resolved, That we call upon Congress to enact such legislation as may be
necessary to cede to the several public-land States without reservation such
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GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 67
nnappropriated public lands with subsoil minerals with the royalties and
derived therefrom; be it
Reso-wed, That we plndge ourselves to the pOlicy of the orderly develop-
ment and conservation of mineral rl'sources and the application of the reve-
nues to the purposes of internal improvements of the State such as the sup-
port of adequate.)school system, the reclamation of arid and semiarid lands,
the development of wate,r power, the protection of waterSheds, reforestation
of: mountain areas, and forestration of privately controlled areas, conserva-
tion of grasses and further development of forage on public lands, and any
other uses which may lIle for the benefit of the people of the State and
Nation; be it
Resolved,That we further pledge ourselves to a policy of cooperation with
the Federal Government and our sister States in aU matters in which inter-
e8ts are mutual in working out equitable agreements on such matters o:f flood,
reclamation, diviSion of water, allocation of power as may arise from time to
time in the development of the resources of these public-land States; lle it
Resolved, That we further pledge the State of Wyoming to the enactment of
such laws and the adoption and execution of such poliCies of government as
will best secure the carrying out of these principles of State control as sug-
gl!sted by the President of the United States; be it
Fwrther resolved, That certified copies of this joint memorial be forwarded
to the President of the United States, the Secretary of the Interior, the Com-
mission on Administration and Conservation of the Public Domaln, and to
each member of the Wyoming -delegation in the Congress of the United States.
Approved December 19, 1929.
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SI!NATE JOINT MEMORIAL (S. J. No.6) TO CONGBElSS R!llLATING TO THE DICLIVI!lllY
TO THEl STATJ!lS OF ALL UNAl'l'ROPRIATEIO PunLIO LANDS
February 7, 1927, introduced.
February 7, 1927, read first time.
FellrUary 7, 1927, referred to committee No. 15.
February 7, 1929, deliv,ered to printing committee.
(This resolution was presented by President Perry W. Jenkins, of the Wyo-
ming State Senate. -and was unanimously adopted by both houses and was
followed by an appropriation of $10,000 for the purpose of carrying out the
objects of the memorial.) .
Be it res-olved by the Senate of the State (If Wyominll, the House of Represerlr
ta,tives conourrinll, That the Congress of the United States be memorlal:ized as
follows:
Whereas the State of Wyoming is composed of lands acquired foul'
treaties: (1) LouiSiana, 1803, (2) Texas, 1845, (3) Oregon, 1864, and (4)
Mexico, 1848;
Whereas in the Louisiana Purchase treaty, covering land out of which most
of the State is taken, it is provided:
" The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated into the Union
of -the United States, and admitted as soon as possible according to the
principles of the Federal Constitution to the enjoyment of all the rights,
advantages, and immunities of the citizens of the United States; and in the
meantime, they shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of
their liberty, property, and the religion which they profess."
Whereas in the act of admission of Wyoming, approved July 10, 1890, the
enactment clause reads:
" Be it enacted, etc., That the State of WYoming is hereby declared to be a
State of the United States of America and is hereby declared admitted into the
Union on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever
and that the constitution which the people of Wyoming have formed for them-
selves be, and the same is hereby accepted, ratified, and confirmed."
Whereas the ordinances approved by the constitutional convention of Wyom-
ing, provided in section 3:
"The people inhabiting this State do agree and declare that they
disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the
ooundaries thereof, and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held oy
any Indian or Indian tribes, and that .until the title thereto shall have been
extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to_
68
GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIO LANDS TO STA'rES
the disposition of the United States and that said Indian lands shall remain
under absolute jurisdiction and control of the Oongress of the United States."
Whereas the Constitution of the United States nowhere grants any authority
to Congress to buy or hold any territory" except in article 1, section 8, para-
graph 17;
" To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever over such districts
(not exceeding 10 miles square) as may be by cession of partiCUlar States and
the acceptance of Congress become the seat of Government of the United States
and to exerCise like authority over all places purchased, by the consent of the
legislature of the State in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts,
magazines, arsenals, dock yards, and other needful buildings. And to make
nil laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the
foregoing powers and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the
Government of the United States or in any department or officer thereof."
Whereas it is set forth in section 3 of Article IV of the Federal Constitution:
"The Congress shall have power to dispose of, and make all needed l'ules
a nd regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the
United States."
Whereas the ordinances of 1787, establishing the Northwest Territory, out
of which was carved Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, pro-
vided as follows:
" legislature; of those districts or new States shall have powers (among
others) 'to provide also for the establishment of States and permanent govern-
ment therein, and for their admission to a share in the Federal councils on an
equnl foot'ng with the original Stntes, at as enrly perioils as may be consistent
with the general interest * * *. The legislatures of those districts or new
States shall never interfere with the primary disposal of the soil by the
United Stntes in Congress assembled, nor. with any regulations Congress may
find necessary for securing the title in such soil to the bona fide purchasers.
" '" * And whenever any of the said States shall have sixty thousand
inhabitants therein, such State shall be admitted, by its delegates, into the
Congress of the United States, on an equal footing with the original States
in all respects whatever.' "
In the case of Coyle v. Smith (221U. S. 559), the Supreme Court, referring
to the case of Pollard's Lessee v. Hagen, used the follOWing language:
"The plain deduction from this case is that when a new State is admitted
into the Union, it is so ailmitted with all of the powers of soverignty and
jurisdiction which pertain to the Original States, and that such powers may
not be constitutionally diminished, impaired, or shorn away by any conditions,
compacts, or stipulations embraced in the act under which the new State came
into the Union."
Whereas it was said by the Supreme Court in Pollard's Lessee v. Hagen (15
U. S. S. C. p. 391) :
" We think a proper examination of this subject will show that the United
States never held any municipal soverignty, jurisdiction or right of soil in and
for the territory, of which Alabama or any of the new States were formed,
except for temporary purposes, and to execute the trusts created by the acts
of the Virginia and Georgia Legislatures, and the deeds of cession executed by
them to the United States, and the trust created by the treaty with the French
Republic of the 30th of April, 1803, ceding Louisiana."
Whereas tbe power so given in the Federal Constitution to dispose of the
territory of the. United States, whatever such territory may have been, was
intended to be confined to the territory which at the time of the founding of the
Federal Government, belonged to or was claimed by the United States, and was
within the boundaries as settled by the treaty with Great Britain, and can have
no influence upon a territory afterwards acquired from a foreign government
(which acqUirements was not even within the purview of the Constitution as
was shown by Thomas Jefferson when he sought to secure ratification thereof
after the purchase was made), such constitutional proviSions as to disposing
of territory, being a special provision for a known and particular territory and
to meet a then present emergency and no more;
Whereas the same soverignty was given to the States, which were carved
out of the lands covered by the LouiSiana Purchase, as was given to the States
which were carved out of the Northwest and
Whereas the territory covered by the Louisiana Purchase when obtained from
France contained no population fit to be aSSOCiated together and admitted as a

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GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 69
State, and it was therefore absolutely necessary to hold possession of it as.a
territory belongmg to the United States until it was settled and inhabited. by a
civilized community capable of self-government and in a condition to be ad-
mUted on equal terms with the other States as a member of the U!1lon, and was
acquired by the General Government as the representative and trustee of the
people of the United States to be held only as such trustee until such time only
as it had sufficient population to assume the position to which it was destined
among the States of the Union;
Whereas as was said by Senator Hendricks of Indiana in Congress as far
baek as January,28, 1928, expDaining why the States acceded to the deprivation
of sovereignty by the IPederal Government 111 organic acts; that the Territories
amaous to gain a political elevation, anxious to gain the level of equality
with the' original States, did not rightly consider the immense saorifices they
were making for the name, while they were not really acquiring the substance
of equality and independence; and
Whereas the Senate Public Lands Committe in 1832, after a comprehensive
survey and study of the public lands, made a formal report, in WhiCh it said
among other things: "Our pledge would not be redeemed by merely dividing
the surface into States land giving them names"; supplemented by Congress-
man Winter of Wyoming when he said, "We ask the status of States of a
Uniion, not provinces of a central power"; and
Whereas Chief Justice Marshall, in Martin v. Hunter (1 Wheaton 325)
ruled that the sovereign powers vested in the State governments by their
respective constitutions remain unaltered and unimpaired except so far as
they are granted to'the Government of the United States, and their apparent
graut to the Unied States in the. organic acts, was unconstitutional and there-
fore void and not binding on the States; and
VV'hereas we search in vain for any clause in the Federal Constitution which
prohibits to the States the exercise of any powers connected with the pUblic
lands, and the control asserted by the Federal Government is a growth of
it system nowhere even contemplated by the founders of our Government
and in violation of the sovereignty of States which came in to the l!'ederal
Uni.on on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever;
Whereas the present public-land policy of the Federal Government, whiCh
Waf! inaugurated in or about the year 1905, under the present system of reserv-
ing to the Federal Government title to the public lands and natul'!ll resources,
has resulted in a condition whiCh threatens the continued progress and .pros-
perIty of 11 States of the Union known generally as semiarid or public land
States, same being as follows: Wyoming, Colorado, New MeXiCO., Arizona,
Utah, Montana, Idaho, California, Oregon, and Washington, in wll1ch the said
Federal Government now retains title to more than 586,000 square miles of
public land, not including Indian reservations or parks.
Whereas this area amounts in the' aggregate to one-half the total land areas
of these aforesaid States, and that of this area about 205,000 square miles have
been placed in forest reserves, 0,,1'1' 75l)00 square miles in coal, oU, phosphate,
anll other reserves, leaVing; only about 300,000 square miles of unappropl'lated
and unreserved public lands;
Whereas this unreserved public land consists mainly of desert and mountains
which are of little value as agricultural land but of great potential value for
milling and grazing, contal.ning forests, coal, Oil, and other natural resonrces,
but which have greatly diminished actual value as long as they remain in public
ownership;
Whereas of the 48 sovereign States the inhabitants of 37 own and have
always owned all their lands and their State sovereignty and autllOrity covers
every natnral resource within their borders, thus plaCing tlle 11 States afore-
mentioned on an unequal basis, with other States to the untold finanCial injury
of the inhabitants thereof;
\l1hereas this immense landed territory now held by tile Federal Govern-
ment, and from which it is collecting rents and royalties, indicates a definite
purpose not to dispose of such lands nor to put them under the Jurisdiction of
the States in which they lie', thereby preventing said lands from becoming lPOPU-
lated and their resources from being developed and denymg to tile States tile
rIght to tax them or to make laws for them;
Whereas this said policy of the Federal Government, now effective, that of
permitting the withdrawal of large areas of public lands from taxation and
reserving to itself all natural resources including water, power Sites, timber,
70 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES
and minerals, limits to the aforesaid 11 States the possibility of raisIng suffi-
cient revenue to meet their rapidly increasing State expenses, while the value
of such natural resources so withdrawn remains far in excess of the total
land valuation of that part of the entire State which is now privately owned:
Whereas the 11 States heretofore enumerated have receiVed from the
Federal Government two sections out of every township for school purposes,
,and 1n every case this trust has been properly and profitably administered,
which demonstrates that individual States can, and will if permitted, administer
theIr public lands and natural resources' with justice and profit;
Whereas the great bulk of available area for settlement by homestead under
existing laws regulating the settlement of agricultural land having now been
taken up and occupied, several States have reached their limit in lands capable
of oearing taxation, thus checking further development of the entire State Oy
lack of taxable property;
Whereas we desire the trust to be fulfilled just as it was with OhiO, IndIana,
Iowa, Nebraska, and Alabama, and other States originally situated, as are
the public-land ,States now;
Whereas we confidently believe that the prayer of this joint memorial will
appeal, not only to the remaining 10 public-land States Similarly situated,
but also to all other States of the United States, as fouIided on justice and
equality;
Therefore we, the Senate and House of Representatives of the State of
Wyoming, hereby memorialize the Oongress of the United States to enact such
legislation as will cause the return by the United States to the States compris-
ing said Government of all vacant and unappropriated lands, together with all
natural resources, including water power, power sites, forests, and minerals
now held in trust by the Federal Government within the borders of any of the
said States; Oeit further
Re8olved, '.rhat engrossed copies of this memorial and request be sent to
the President of the United States, to the President of the United States Senate,
to the Speaker of the UniteLl States House of Representatives, to the Senators
from Wyoming in the Oongress of the United States; Hon. Frances E. Warren
and Hon. John B. Kendrick, and our Representative in said Oongress, Hon.
Oharles E. Winter, asking their aid in bringing the oDject of this memorial
before Oongress; be it further
Re8olved, That engrossed copies of this memorial Oe sent to the governors
of each of the remaining public-land States, asking them to place before the
legIslatures of said States this memorial, urge the adoption of this or a similar
memorial; and request their cooperation in securing favorable action thereon
by the Oongress of the United States and also their cooperation in a convention
to be held at some convenient place for the purpose of uniting to carry out the
purpose of this memorial; and for such other purposes as may seem fitting to
,such convention.
WHAT WYOMING DESIRES WITH REGARD TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN
By Perry W. Jenkins
At the present time it might be well to set forth the attitude which Wyoming
takes on the public-land question. r.rrue, it is impossible to know what would
be the result of a vote of the people on every pOint, but our legislature having
met and taken unanimous action on certain resolutions and our newspapers
having already taken a very definite stand, we might be considered as being
in a pOSition to express in general terms the desires of the people of the State.
The questions involved will relate to:
I. The unappropriated and unre8erved pubUo dom,ain, of which there are in
the State of Wyoming 17,035,537 acres.
II. Sub 8urfaoe minerals, of which there have been withdrawn: (a) Ooal,
2,260,000 acres; (b) oil land, 967,323 acres; (0) phosphate lands, 9!t4,969 acres;
(d) oil shale, none withdrawn.
III. Fore8ts: 8,548,234 acres withdrawn.
IV. Indian re8er'Vations: 833,554 acres withdrawn.
V. National park8: 2,142,720 acres withdrawn.
VI. Stook drivewaY8: 1,207,353 acres withdrawn.
VII. Water: (a) Reservoir sites, 118,723 acres withdrawn; (b) Indian power
sites, 58,800 acres withdrawn; (0) power sites, 106,884 acres withdrawn; (d)
public water, 79,785 acres withdrawn.
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GRANTING Ulq-RESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES
VIII. Reolamation.
IX. Military maneuver Iwound8, of which there are 9,237 acres .
:X. Highway8.
XI. Flood oontrol.
71
We will now take up each of these topics and discuss the disposal of the
area involved.
1. The unappropriated and unreserved public domain should pass to the State
with a complete title conveying everythlng from the surface down; tlllS beIng
title that has been recognized for centuries. The funds derived from the
sale of the land and royalties from mlnerals to be placed in a permanent fund to
be invested in interest-producing securities yielding a fair rate of interest, such
as farm loans, State, murl1cipal, School, irrigation district, and other Oonds of
like nature.. The interest: only to be for the following objects in their order:
(a) Education.
(b) Range development.
(0) Development of highways across the public domain.
(d) Such other internal improvements as may be deemed necessary by the
legislature.
n. Of the reserved mIneral lands the State desires a title as in the case of
the public domain, Out with stipulations yielding to the Federal 'Government
t1w present rate of royalties for the purposes to which they are now devoted'
and until the present program is completed ,or for a term of years, at the end of
whICh time the State's title shall become complete. The oil shale, Deing a
mineral to which extensive manufacturing processes must be applied, Bhould
pass to the State. In the stipulations the Federal Government may retain the
right to control orderly output and may require provisions for conservation
and proper disposal of returns. '
III. The administration of the forests could well be placed under the con
trol of the State, but such a transfer might not Oe wise at the present time.
The State will, however, look forward to the time when it has developed its
own forest system and the Federal Government could be relieved of the ad-
mInistration of the forests with proper guarantee as to conservation. All
purely grazing lands outside of timber lands should be eliminated from the
forests and be placed under the control of the State on the same terms as
th'B public domain.
IV. It is evident that the Indian reservations will ultimately follOW the
course of the public domain, and as fast' as these areas are alloted to in-
diyiduals or thrown open to settlement they should pass under the jurisdic-
tion of the State.
V. The national parks are perhaps best go,verned by the Federal Govern-
ment, being national in their nature. We oppose any further additions being
made to the parks or any n,ew parks beIng created without the consent of the
legislature. If the State :is to exercise civil jurisdiction and control over park
areas, privately owned property within the park should be subjected to the
same State taxes as like property elsewhere in the State.
VI. The stock driveway reservations should pass under the control of the
State in the same manner as the public domain.
VII. The waters of the State, by State constitutional proviSion and con-
action, belong to the State. For that reason the administration and
control should rest with the State. This applies particularly to waters havlllg
their source within the State.
{a) All reservoir sites shOUld pass to the State and should be subject to the
same condemnation proceedings as exist with regard to present State. lands.
{b) Indian power sites shOUld be under the control of. the State, as the State
will look forward to the transfer of the other Indian lands to the State.
(o) The power sites, outside of Indian reservations, should pass to the State
with proper guarantee as to conservation and protection.
{d) All water and public watering holes should pass under tile jurisdiction
of the State.
VIII. The wor!k of reclamation has been conducted at the expense of the
public land States. In the inception of the idea the royalties from the minerals
and lands were placed in a fund to be expended for the benefit of the State,
out later these funds were consolidated for the benefit of reclamation. We
believe that the present royalties from the fuel minerals should be used as
72 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES
heretofore in the -work of reclamation until the present program is completed,
at wllich time the royalties and revenues within a State shall be expended by
the State for the reclamation of the public domain and the assistance of pri-
vately owned irrigation projects. The reclamation fund which may then exist,
through accumulation of royalties or the return of invested funds, shall be
turned over to the States for the development of reclamation, power, storage,
and flood control. When these objects have been accomplished the fund shall
be at the disposal of the State legislature for internal improvements.
IX. The military and maneuver gronnds being national in their purpose
sllOUld remain under the control of the Federal Government. The same applies
to naval Oils and other values appropriated for the national defense.
X. The highway program as it now exists shall be continued for a period of
10 years, at which time the State shall take over the highways and construct
and maintain the same out of revenues derived from taxation, rentals, and
royalties.
XI. Flood control, being in its nature a national problem, should be under
the administration of the Federal Government. The right to condemn and
take over property for reservoirs, Canals, distributors, sluiceways, and other
works should be vested in the Federal Government, but when such reservoirs,
canals, and so forth are to be used in the generation of power and for domestic
and irrigation uses, the State Should cooperate with the Federal Government
in the construction of such water works.
The conditions being so varied throughout the 11 major public-land States,
the same stipulations and provisions may not be advisable in every instance.
We desire that the lands be offered to the States under as unrestricted and
unlimited conditions ,as possible and the individual States be permitted to
accept or re.ject as the legiSlature may determine; that is, one State may take
over the public domain even if others see fit to leave within their borders under
the administration of the Federal Government. We believe that a transfer of
the public domain will not onlY' enable the States to accomplish the purpose for
which States are organized, but will give them the jurisdiction and sovereignty
guuranteed them under the treaties and the deCisions of OUr Supreme Court
and will relieve the National Government of much perplexing and burdensome
legiSlation. Our Govel'llment will then be Simplified while the State
will come into her own and will grow and prosper under self rule.
The conservation and care of the mineral resources will best be worked out
by creating a local interest in their present and future values. We have only
to study the success WhiCh Wyoming has achieved in the administration of the
public lands already committed to her care to see that the State will not waste
these resources, but that conservation will attain its highest aim. Had all the
public domain been placed in the hands of the State as was section- 16 and
section 36 of every township, it is fair to believe that the endowment fund
which is now $20,000,000 would have been at least $350,000,000, invested in
loan.s for internal improvements, which would mean that the settlement of the
Stute would have gone forward and WYoming would not have been held back
for want of funds for domestic development and expanSion.
PERRY W. JENKINS,
Oomiln'ission on Oonservation arna
Adml4nistraUon of Publio Domain.
The CHAIRMAN, Before we undertake the consideration of the let-
ter from the Secretary of the Interior, with his memorandum on this
/3
u
bject, are there other petitions, memorials, or letters that mem-
bers of the committee want to make a part of the record at this
point? If not, we will proceed to the consideration of the letter
under date of March 14.
Under date of March 14, Secretary Wilbur addresses the Com-
mittee on Public Lands and Surveys as follows:
(The letter referred to has been previously incorporated in the
record; see page 10.)
The CHAIRMAN. Will the committee desire that I read the memo-
randum?
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GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 73
Senator WALSH of lV[ontana. I would like to have it read.
The CHAIRMAN. Before we proceed with the reading of the memo-
randum offered by the Secretary, permit the Chair to, that
Secretary Hyde, of the Agriculture Department, has mdlCated that
WIB will not be waiting many hours for a report from that department.
We will have the clerk read this memorandum from the Secretary.
(The memorandum from the Secretary of the Interior was read
by the clerk of the committee, the memorandum having been previ-
ously incorporated in the record; see page 10.) .
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Walsh, as one. member of the comml-ttee,
if it i,s agreeable to you, I should like to have just a rough idea of
how the two bills-the commission bill and your bill differ.
Senator W ALSHOf Montana, The real, substantial difference, Mr.
Chairman, is that under my bill mineral lands are granted as well
as the nonminerallands.
The CHAIRMAN. The surface rights and mineral rights are all
included?
Senator WALSH of Montana. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. That, in substance, is the main difference?
Senator WALSH of Montana. The argument of the Secretary
against the inclusion of the mineral lands is all based apparently
upon the effect it would have upon the reclamation fund and the
reclamation policy. That is the objection of the Secretary to the
inclusion of the mineral lands. That is taken care af in the bill
offered by me by a provision to the effect that the State shall turn
over to the Federal Government any money received from the land,
exactly the same amount, 521;2 per cent to go into the reclam!;ttion
fUlnd. '1
The CHAIRMAN. So there wOUlld be no difference in the returns to
that fund whatever
Senator WAI,SH of Montana. No; the fund would continUle just
exactly the same, except the sales and collections would be made by
the State and turned over instead of by the Government. ._
Senat.or C.<l.REY. The State would have 10 per cent for administra-
tion. ,
Senator WALSH of Montana. That is correct.
Senator KENDRICK. May I suggest to those of you who have lis-
tened carefully to the reading of this report of the Secretary of the
Interior that you must have noted the apparent differences in the
benefits accruing to the several States in which a reclamation fund
is used, and the discrepancies between their contributions to that
fund and the benefits received from it. Because of this fact,
at some place in our proceedings I want to offer an amendment;
probably to Senator W-alsh's bill, that will more evenly distribute
those benefits. Whether it will be in the way of an amendment to
employ the funds contributed by a State to reclamation within the
borders of that State or whether it will be some other plan of dis-
tributing the benefits to the State, more in proportion to their con-
tributions, will have to be determined later. However, at this point
I think it worth while to say Wyoming would be easily pleased if
she were content with the operation of the bureau under present
74 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIQ LANDS TO STATES
conditions. The Secretary points out here that Wyoming has con-
tributed $26,000,000 or $27,000,000 more than she has received in
return, and some of these millions have been applied in the devel-
opment of sister States that have contributed next to nothing to
the fund.
The CHAIRMAN. The same thing is true of my State. We have
contributed far more to the fund than we have received out of it.
Senator KENDRICK. That involves an inequity that we might very
well consider before We go further.
Senator WALSH of Montana. I ought to say in answer to your
inquiry, Mr. Chairman, both of the bills provide for the cr.eation of
a commission to determine whether other areas ought to be added to
the forests or other reservations., or whether certain areas now in-
cluded in the national forests orI'eservations ought not to be excluded
therefrom. Both bills provide for such permission, although on a
little different basis; but on reflection I might say, as I said on the
floor, the bill tendered by me was drawn by the commissioner of
public lands for the State of Montana, who was a member of the
President's commission, and he has given very. earnest thought to it,
but on reflection I have seen no occasion whatever -for the creation of
such cOIhmission, and as I am at present advised I shall ask leave to
amend the bill by taking out of it those provisions in relation to the
appointment or creation of such a commission.
The' national forests were created way back in the nineties and so
nlllch land was included under the general-authority grantbf Con-
gress that Congress stepped in and prOVIded that no other national
forests should be created except by act of Congress. Since that time
from time to time areas have been added to the national forests by
act of Congress, until the general belief is we have got just about as
much land in national forests as we need in the national forests, or
ought to have in the national forests, and if any lands are trans-
ferred to the States which would seem ought to be included in the
national forests I am very sure that the people of the States will
recognize the situation of affairs and will he quite willing to recede
those to the Federal Government.
I do not myself see occasion whatever for the creation now, as I am
advised of the matter, of a commission to determine whether the
national forests ought to be extended or reduced.
Senator ASHURST. I should like to ask Senator Walsh in relation
to his bill S. 4060, it will be observed in the preamble .01' the title it
reads: "To grant. vacant, unreserved, unappropriated, nonmineral
lands to accepting States "-- - --
Senator WALSH of Montana. The "nonmineral" should be
stricken.
Senator ASHURST. Turning to the text ot the bill, on page 2, line
2, section 1, " Subject to the terms, conditions, and exceptions here.
inafter stated, there is hereby granted to each of the States" or so-
and-so-line 8, " all the unappropriated and unreserved public lands,
including the minerals therein." -
Undoubtedly the typographical error has cropped up in the first
line of the preamble. The word "nonmineral" should be stricken
\;j! I.
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GRANTING UNJaESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES
75,
out.. I think a great deal of our confusion has arisen because some-
body reading it would read the first line of the preamble. The bill
introduced by Senator Walsh of Montana does grant to the accepting
States all the minerals, base, precious, and rare. That is your view,
is it not
Senator WALSH of Montana. Exactly.
Senator ASHURST. That, in my judgment, is a very important, a
very much better suggestion than others we have heard.
The CHAIRMAN. All those matters will be ironed out. I thinkwe
are prepared now to heltr Mr. Garfield.
STlllTEMENT OF JAMES R. GARFIELD, CHAIRMAN COMMITTEE ON
THE CONSERVATION' AND ADMINISTRATION OF THE PUBLIC
DOMAIN
Mr. GARFIELD. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, in
the presentation of the report of the commission that was appoiIited
by the President I wish to call attention briefly to some of the basic
facts upon which judgment must be founded in the discussion and
consideration of the measure that is now before the Senate.
It is inevitable in the study of so vast a subject as the public do-
main that there should have arisen a great deal of misunderstanding,
misapprehension, regarding the history of the acquisition and dis-
position of the public domain and regarding the effect of the :various
methods that have been adopted by Congress for the disposition of
the ,
I have brought here to-day two maps, one the general map of the
United States, with which you are all familial', which shows the
origins of the acquisitions of the public domain by the Federal Gov-
ernment.
It is interesting because of the fact that the basic acts of Congress
in the disposition of the public domain necessarily depended upon
the forms of acquisition of the public domain.
You will recall in the :6.rst instance the Colonies along the seaboard,
the thirteen Colonies, had extensive grants from the foreign coun-
tries of England, France, and of Spain. They were indeterminent .
in character as to boundary, and the western areas had been wholly,
of course, unsurveyed and in many instances hardly explored, but
nevertheless at the end of the War of the Revolution the va:dous
Colonies ceded to the new Federal Government all of their rights
in the area, whatever it might be, that had been claimed theretoJeore
by the English areas were granted by the Sta,tes
l
for what purpose PrlmarIly to rid the Federal Government of
the difficulties of the determination of the rights of the different
COlonies, and, secondly., to provide the Federal Government with
some assets from which they could pay the expenses of the Revolu-
tion. Therefore the Federal Government became instantly by !Ces-
sion of the States the owner of land lying clear through to the
borders of the then known West, the Mississippi River, and extend-
ing northwest into the unknown area along the line of the Mis-
sissippi.
108900-32-6