Paff31 1 2

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SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY
LAW DIVISION: ATLANTIC COUNTY
DOCKET NO. ATL-L-005428-13
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JOHN PAFF,
Plaintiff,
V.
GALLOWAY TOWNSHIP AND THALIA C.
FAY IN HER OFFICIAL CAPACITY AS
MUNICIPAL CLERK AND RECORDS
CUSTODIAN OF GALLOWAY TOWNSHIP,
Defendants.
:
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: DEPOSITION OF:
: ERIC MCCARTHY
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_______________________________
T R A N S C R I P T of testimony taken
16 Stenographically by and before PHILIP A. FISHMAN, a

17 Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the
18 State of New Jersey, at the offices of the Galloway
19 Township Municipal Building, 300 East Jimmie Leads Road,
20 Galloway Township, New Jersey, on Monday, March 31, 2014,
21 commencing at 10 o'clock in the forenoon.
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PHILIP A. FISHMAN
COURT REPORTING AGENCY
89 Headquarters Plaza North
Morristown, New Jersey 07960
973-285-5331 - FAX 732-605-9391
1 APPEARANCES:
2
WALTER M. LUERS, ESQ.
23 WEST MAIN STREET
CLINTON, NEW JERSEY 08809
APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF
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FITZGERALD, MCGROARTY, MALINSKY, P.A.
BY:
401 NEW ROAD
MICHAEL J. FITZGERALD, ESQ.
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LINWOOD, NEW JERSEY 08221
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APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS
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I N D E X
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3 WITNESS:
DIRECT
CROSS
REDIRECT
RECROSS
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ERIC MCCARTHY
6 By Mr. Luers
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E X H I B I T S
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10 NUMBER
DESCRIPTION
PAGE
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P-1
Notice of Deposition
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P-2
Document entitled "Message Logic
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Administrator Guide"
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P-3
Certification of Eric E. McCarthy
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P-4
Letter from Michael J. Fitzgerald to
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Walter M. Luers, 3/28/2014
McCarthy - direct - Luers
10:00:54
1 Eric McCarthy, 300 East Jimmie Leeds Road, Galloway, New
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2 Jersey, having been duly sworn according to law, testifies
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3 under oath as follows:
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4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LUERS:
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stipulations prior to the beginning of this deposition,
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and I would like to place them on the record.
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Fitzgerald would accept service of a subpoena on his
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behalf, and that Mr. Fitzgerald is also representing Mr.
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McCarthy here today.
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Q.
Good morning, Mr. McCarthy.
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A.
Good morning.
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Q.
If at any time you feel you need to take a break,
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let us know, we will take a break as long as there is
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not a question pending.
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A.
Okay.
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Q.
Please describe to me your post secondary -- you
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MR. LUERS:
Counsel and I reached a few
We stipulated that Mr. McCarthy is appearing

here today as an employee of the township, that Mr.
MR. FITZGERALD:
Those stipulations are
correct.
MR. LUERS:
In his capacity as a township
employee.
I thank counsel for his help on that.
know -- after high school education.
A.
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10:05:00
Cape Community College.
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certifications -- various certifications -- I should say
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"certifications" in standards in the field after that.
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Q.
And what "certifications" have you received?
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A.
A Plus Certified; Network Plus Certified, and
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CNA, which is a Certified Novel Administrator, which is
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an industry standard.
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Q.
What does it mean to be "A Plus Certified"?
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A.
A Plus Certified is basic computer repair,
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printer repair, hardware and operating system
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maintenance.
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Q.
What does it mean to be "Network Certified"?
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A.
Network Plus Certified is knowledge of networking
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infrastructures, backbones, networking hardware and
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server, server and storage, I should say.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
When did you get the A Plus Certification?
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A.
Fifteen years ago.
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Q.
When did you get the Network Plus Certification?
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A.
The same years, 15 years ago.
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Q.
When did you get the CNA Certifications?
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A.
That was after -- I would say 12 years ago.
Q.
I did some computer science studies at Atlantic

I have received
You described to me three certifications.

Are you currently certified in those three areas?
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Q.
Any other certifications?
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A.
No, but I am working on Microsoft certifications
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now.
Q.
Which Microsoft certifications are you working
A.
Certified Microsoft engineer, which is MCSE.
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Q.
And what does that entail?
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A.
Knowledge of Microsoft server, operating systems,
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A.
That was okay.
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Q.
Are you working on any other Microsoft
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A.
No.
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Q.
Are you working on any other certifications?
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A.
No.
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Q.
Okay.
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Q.
About how many credits?
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A.
Maybe eight.
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Q.
So no Associate's degree?
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A.
No.
on?
basic networking knowledge.

Q.
Are you working on any other -- I am sorry --
were you finished with your answer?
certifications?
You described to me that you performed
some studies at Atlantic Cape Community College.

A.
Yes.
Yes.
No degree was obtained, so a few
semesters of basic computer studies.
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Q.
Any other certifications?
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A.
Proprietary software certifications -- you
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know -- nothing that are official certifications, but
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just knowledge obtained through -- going through some of
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their training courses.
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e-mail archiving systems that the township used in 2013
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or currently?
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A.
This is the Notice of Deposition.
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Q.
Is it your understanding that your appearance
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Is it your understanding that you are testifying
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Please describe for me the -- let me back up --
Q.
A.
Do you have any certification with respect to the
No.
They don't offer them.

(Notice of Deposition is marked as Exhibit
P-1 for identification.)

MR. LUERS:
copy of this.
I am sorry.
It's just a Notice of Deposition.
MR. FITZGERALD:
Q.
I didn't make a
Okay.
Mr. McCarthy, I am handing you a document that
the court reporter has marked as Plaintiff's P-1.

Would you please identify it for me.
here today is pursuant to that notice?
here as an employee of the township?
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does Galloway Township utilize any device or system to
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archive e-mail?
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A.
We use two, yes.
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Q.
What does it mean to "archive" e-mail?
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A.
You are, basically, storing any incoming or
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outgoing messages from the e-mail service house here on
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the property for retention.
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Q.
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e-mails?
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A.
Right now seven years.
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Q.
Okay.
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to the OPRA request that's the subject of this lawsuit
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and the e-mails, the e-mail logs that the plaintiff is
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seeking?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Are you aware of any information or facts that
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would suggest to you that the underlying e-mails are not
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available?
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requested in this case, would the data still be
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available?
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What is the retention period in Galloway for
Do you have an understanding with respect
MR. FITZGERALD:
I object to the form of the
question.
Q.
Let me ask the question a little differently.

If you were to run the logs that Mr. Paff
MR. FITZGERALD:
Again I object to the form
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of that question in terms of a reference to a "log."
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Q.
Can you answer -- do you understand the question?
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A.
Not the way you are wording it.
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Administrator Guide" is marked as Exhibit P-2 for
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identification.)
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A.
It is.
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Q.
That's the archival system that was in effect at
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I am not quite
sure what you mean.

Q.
Okay.
I will back up a little bit.
What archive program did the township use in June

2013 to archive e-mails?
A.
It was an appliance provided from the Data
Storage Corporation.
The name of the product is "InBoxer."
Q.
All right.
(Document entitled "Message Logic
Q.
Mr. McCarthy, I am handing you a document that we
identified as Plaintiff's P-2.

Would you please take a moment to look at the
document and identify it for me.
A.
This is the administrator guide for said
appliance.
Q.
So that's the administrator guide for the
archival software provided by Data Storage Corporation?
the time -- well, it was in effect in June 2013?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Now, is it your understanding that the subject of
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this litigation is the township's response to Mr. Paff's
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OPRA request for e-mail logs?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Could you please show me in the administrator
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guide -- if it's in there -- please show me in the
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administrator guide where it discusses the steps to
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create e-mail logs?
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Q.
On what page does it do that?
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A.
Let me see.
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A.
Let me just browse through it again.
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Q.
Certainly.
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A.
Yeah, you're right.
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Q.
I will represent to you that's a printout of what
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A.
I don't believe it's in here.

It has -- it shows you how to perform a search.
I don't see it in here.

Q.
You had a chance to look through the entire
document?
The exhibit contains, I think, 21 pages, and the

pages appear to match the table of contents?
Mr. Fitzgerald gave to us.

A.
Okay.
It seems like it skips over the search tab.
It
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focuses on the administration tab.
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contain instructions for how to search for e-mails in
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the Data Storage Corporation archive software?
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manuals?
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A.
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server.
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MR. LUERS:
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(Certification of Eric E. McCarthy is marked
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I am sorry.
Q.
A.
Are you aware of any other document that would
No.
No.
This is the only thing they provided.
Well, I should say this is the only thing I found

from when the township purchased the appliance.
Q.
And you performed a search for user guides and
Just through an old administrator folder on the
Please mark that.
as Exhibit P-3 for identification.)

Q.
have marked as P-3.

Would you please take a moment to review the
document and identify it for me.
A.
This is the Certification from October, my
Certification from October.

It outlines the steps on how we create the
search, perform the search, and then print the list.
Q.
Okay.
And that's your signature that appears on
the second page?
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A.
It is.
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Q.
So my questions are going to focus on Paragraph
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that one would engage in with respect to the Data
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Storage archival system?
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A.
It is.
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Q.
Sitting here -- you know -- re-reading your
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re-reading Paragraph 8 of your Certification, is there
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anything in there that you would change or you think is
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incorrect?
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A.
I don't believe so.
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Q.
With respect to the creation of e-mail logs,
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A.
It is.
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Q.
And you have done that personally?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
About how many e-mail logs have you created for
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A.
Oh, gee, over 100.
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Q.
Say at least 100?
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A.
Yes, I would say.
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Q.
At least 200?
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A.
It's hard to say.
8.
With respect to Paragraph 8, is this the tasks
Certification, is there anything in there -- well,
that's something you have done in the past.
the Township of Galloway?
Correct?
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Q.
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Paragraph 8, would it be your responsibility to perform
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steps A through K when creating an e-mail log as you
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have done in the past?
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township, with the understanding -- I understand it's
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the township's position, and this may have happened in
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the past, but it doesn't really happen, I am not trying
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to imply something else, I understand the current
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township's position.
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A.
I understand.
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Q.
But in the ordinary course of business in the
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A.
The township clerk normally.
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Q.
Well, you said "normally."
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police department, they would apply their redaction
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first.
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steps J and K, if the e-mails concerned municipal
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operations, the clerk would usually be responsible for
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handling redaction and printing the documents, but if
A.
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Now, with respect to -- again, focusing on
A through I, I would not perform the redaction,
nor am I limited to digital format.

Q.
In the ordinary course of business of the
past, who would perform steps J and K?
Is there anyone else who would perform J and K?

A.
Q.
I believe if the OPRA request came in through the
Would it be fair to say that with respect to
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the e-mails concerned police operations, then the police
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department would handle the redaction?
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my hand and goes to my superiors in the township, what
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they do with it is not something I am 100 percent
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knowledgeable of.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
How long would it take you to perform steps A
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A.
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request.
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Q.
Why is that?
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A.
If it pertained to one subject or ten different
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subjects, we use ten different key words, multiple
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e-mail addresses to and from date ranges.
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longer.
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Q.
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A.
Q.
Generally, I would say yes, but once it's out of
Is it your understanding that's what would
normally happen?
through I?
It would entirely depend on the criteria of the
If it's a big date range the search can take up

to five minutes itself just to search.
If it's a shorter range -- you
know -- obviously it would be less.
When you are adding key words the searches take
So when you said the "search itself," is that a
reference to step F?
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A.
Yes.
10:24:26
Q.
What would you say is the average time to perform
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A.
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minutes.
10:24:56
Q.
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asked the township to create, do you have an
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understanding how long it would take for you to create
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those logs if you were asked to do so?
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A.
Sure.
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Q.
Have you performed the search?
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A.
The Paff one?
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Q.
Yes.
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A.
No.
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Q.
What's the basis for the two to three minutes?
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A.
Yeah.
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Q.
-- based on your experience doing at least 100 of
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steps A through I?
Average, five minutes average.
Five to ten
With respect to the particular logs that Mr. Paff
Two to three minutes.
It's your experience?

A.
Just the experience, yes.
I believe that was a
two-week time period in that search.

Q.
I will represent to you that it was June 3rd to
June 17th, so, yes, two weeks.

Based on that your estimate is two to three
minutes --
these logs?
Again, that's a guess.
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A.
Yes.
10:26:10
Q.
Is there any reason -- well, if you were asked,
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A.
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system.
10:26:30
Q.
Sure.
10:26:33
A.
It is an older piece of hardware.
10:26:36
Q.
Okay.
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A.
No.
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Q.
Okay.
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A.
I am employed by the Township of Galloway to
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maintain the computer infrastructure for both the
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township and the police department.
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Q.
And is that your full-time position?
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A.
It is.
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Q.
Do you have any other jobs or part-time jobs?
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A.
No.
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the neighboring City of Absecon where the township
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provides IT services to them.
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day a week over there on site.
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Galloway, and it sounds like you spend about 20 percent
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of your time working directly with Absecon.
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would you be able to create the logs today?

Yes, providing there is no problem with the
Do you have any reason to doubt that the
underlying e-mails would not be there?
Q.
A.
I have no reason to believe that.

What do you do for a living?
We do have a shared service agreement with
It averages maybe about a
So your full-time employer is the Township of
About that, yes.
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Q.
And for how long have you held that position?
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A.
It will be nine years in May.
10:28:04
Q.
And what did you do before then?
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A.
I worked for almost ten years for a software
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company in Northfield, Edmunds & Associates.
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provide tax and finance software for local government.
10:28:22
I was a hardware technician.
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Edmunds?
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A.
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three-and-a-half years doing audio, visual services and
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some in-house computer work with a year at the Flagship
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in Atlantic City, kind of right in between Marriott.
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left for a year.
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A.
At the Flagship?
10:29:13
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Q.
Your whole time at Marriott.
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A.
My whole time was about three years.
10:29:18
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Q.
And what did you do before that?
10:29:21
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A.
I was in high school.
10:29:23
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Q.
When did you graduate high school?
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A.
1992.
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Q.
So with respect to the data storage archival
Q.
They
All right.
And what did you do before your ten years at
Q.
I worked for Marriott Seaview for about
I am sorry.
How long did you do that?
18
10:29:40
system, it's fair to say that you are able to perform
10:29:46
searches?
10:29:46
A.
Yes.
10:29:46
Q.
And what different type of searches can you
10:29:51
perform?
10:29:54
A.
10:30:05
a specific person, from a specific person, specific date
10:30:16
and date range.
10:30:23
10:30:28
10
10:30:32
11
A.
Yes.
10:30:32
12
Q.
So when one uses the archival system, you can
10:30:44
13
10:30:49
14
A.
Yes.
10:30:51
15
Q.
And we discussed a key word search and search of
10:30:57
16
the "to" field and a search of the "from" field, and you
10:31:00
17
can also make a search according to a specific date and
10:31:03
18
a specific date and range.
10:31:05
19
A.
Correct.
10:31:05
20
Q.
Can you search as to any other information in an
10:31:08
21
e-mail?
10:31:11
22
A.
10:31:15
23
familiar with.
10:31:24
24
what we use it, I should say.
10:31:27
25
archival appliances to come out.
Q.
You can search content of an e-mail, key words to
Are each of these items that you just testified
to, are they fields?
Is it fair to call them "fields"?
search data that's stored on the server?
Correct?
There is a lot you can search that I am not too

The device itself, it's overkill for
It's one of the first
19
10:31:31
Q.
So there are some features you don't use.
10:31:34
Correct?
10:31:34
A.
Correct.
10:31:34
Q.
There are some search fields you don't use?
10:31:36
A.
Correct.
10:31:37
Q.
Have we covered the search fields that you use
10:31:42
10:31:43
A.
Yes.
10:31:44
Q.
Okay.
10:31:57
10
these logs, these e-mail logs, in response to OPRA
10:32:01
11
requests?
10:32:07
12
A.
Yeah.
10:32:16
13
Q.
When was that?
10:32:16
14
A.
About five years ago.
10:32:16
15
Q.
And did there come a point when you stopped
10:32:18
16
10:32:27
17
10:32:30
18
don't come to me, so I don't know necessarily when it
10:32:33
19
stopped.
10:32:35
20
Q.
10:32:36
21
Let me ask a better question.
10:32:38
22
At some point did anyone make you aware of a
10:32:43
23
Galloway Township policy or practice where you would no
10:32:50
24
longer prepare e-mail logs in response to OPRA requests?
10:32:55
25
when working for Galloway Township?
Do you remember when you started making
I would say --
making e-mail logs according to OPRA requests?

A.
A.
When I was being requested to.
The OPRA requests
Fair enough.
I wasn't officially noticed that we would stop,
20
10:32:58
no.
10:32:58
Q.
But at some point you stopped?
10:33:00
A.
At some point the requests stopped coming to me,
10:33:04
10:33:04
10:33:09
way to you, did anything else happen to make you aware
10:33:11
that Galloway Township was not any longer going to
10:33:14
provide e-mail logs in response to OPRA requests?
10:33:18
A.
Nothing that sticks out, no.
10:33:21
10
Q.
You stopped getting the OPRA requests so you
10:33:23
11
10:33:24
12
A.
Yes, basically.
10:33:28
13
Q.
Okay.
10:33:34
14
system, is that the one that's still in place for the
10:33:39
15
municipal e-mails?
10:33:40
16
10:33:43
17
10:33:45
18
10:33:51
19
10:33:59
20
A.
Yes.
10:34:00
21
Q.
And it's my understanding that municipal switched
10:34:07
22
over from the Data Storage Corporation tool to the mail
10:34:11
23
archiva tool in July 2013?
10:34:14
24
A.
Correct.
10:34:21
25
Q.
And the police haven't switched over yet.
yes.
Q.
So other than the requests stopped making their
figured it out?
A.
No.
The Data Storage Corporation archival
That's the one that's in place currently for
the police department.

Q.
Okay.
So the municipal e-mails, they currently
use the mail archiva tool?
21
10:34:24
Correct?
10:34:25
A.
No.
10:34:25
Q.
Tell me if I am right.
10:34:28
using the data storage tool, but the police will switch
10:34:31
over sometime in 2013 to the mail archiva tool?
10:34:35
10:34:38
10:34:40
10:34:45
10:34:45
10
A.
Yes.
10:34:46
11
Q.
And prior to July 2013, there was just one server
10:34:51
12
10:34:53
13
A.
Yes.
10:34:53
14
Q.
And you will agree with me when I use the term
10:34:59
15
"municipal," I am talking about e-mails to or from --
10:35:03
16
you know -- you and the township clerk, talking about
10:35:08
17
police, the e-mails from, like, the police chief and
10:35:12
18
officers?
10:35:12
19
A.
Correct.
10:35:13
20
Q.
Now, when you described the steps it would take,
10:35:20
21
the Paragraph 8 steps, and you gave your estimates for
10:35:24
22
how long a search would take, was that answer with
10:35:28
23
respect to the Data Storage Corporation tool or the mail
10:35:33
24
archiva tool or for both tools?
10:35:35
25
A.
Correct.
The police are still
Not the same server.
They will have
their own.
Q.
So they will use the mail archiva tool but have
separate servers?
for both police and municipal?
A.
Yes.
For the Data Storage Corporation.
Q.
Okay.
22
10:35:38
How long would a search take using the
10:35:44
10:35:46
A.
The search itself?
10:35:50
Q.
Let me ask you a better question.
10:35:52
10:35:58
for the e-mail -- you know -- the June 3rd to June 17th
10:36:02
e-mails, would you have to use the Data Storage
10:36:06
Corporation tool or the mail archiva tool?
10:36:08
10:36:12
10
10:36:13
11
10:36:19
12
10:36:23
13
A.
Yes.
10:36:24
14
Q.
Okay.
10:36:32
15
you know -- that would create the log that Mr. Paff
10:36:34
16
asked for, you would use the Data Storage tool?
10:36:38
17
10:36:41
18
10:36:43
19
10:36:49
20
e-mail log two weeks ago, you would be using the mail
10:36:55
21
archiva tool?
10:36:55
22
A.
Correct.
10:36:56
23
Q.
The municipal?
10:36:57
24
A.
For municipal only.
10:36:59
25
Q.
But not for police?
mail archiva tool?

To find a particular e-mail?
In order to create a log requested by Mr. Paff
A.
That particular date range would be stored on the
Data Storage Corporation appliance.

Q.
Is that because the e-mails that are archived
prior to July 2013, they are on the Data Storage server?
A.
So today if I asked you to run a search --
Correct.
Anything before July 2013 would be
stored on that appliance.

Q.
And if you received an OPRA request today for an
10:37:00
A.
Not for police.
10:37:01
Q.
For police it will still be Data Storage?
10:37:04
A.
It will still be Data Storage.
10:37:06
Q.
Okay.
10:37:10
10:37:14
today for the 2013 logs of e-mails for police and
10:37:19
municipal, you would run that using the Data Storage
10:37:22
tool?
10:37:22
A.
Uh-huh.
10:37:23
10
Q.
That's a "yes"?
10:37:24
11
A.
Yes.
10:37:25
12
Q.
Okay.
10:37:29
13
times and the fields, you were always talking about the
10:37:36
14
Data Storage tool.
10:37:38
15
A.
Yes.
10:37:40
16
Q.
Do we even have to talk about the mail archiva
10:37:45
17
tool?
10:37:45
18
A.
That's up to you.
10:37:50
19
Q.
So for any e-mail prior to July 2013, any e-mail
10:37:57
20
10:38:03
21
A.
I would not.
10:38:07
22
Q.
In the mail archiva tool, can you perform key
10:38:15
23
10:38:16
24
A.
Key?
10:38:16
25
Q.
Of e-mails --
So I want to make sure I understand.
If you were to run the search and create the log
Yes.
And today when you were discussing search
Correct?
log, you wouldn't use the mail archiva tool?
word searches?
23
10:38:18
A.
Yes.
10:38:18
Q.
-- can you perform searches of archived e-mails
10:38:22
10:38:25
A.
Yes.
10:38:26
Q.
Can you perform the same type of searches in the
10:38:28
10:38:29
A.
Yes.
10:38:30
Q.
And can you search archived e-mails in the mail
10:38:35
10:38:37
10
A.
Yes.
10:38:37
11
Q.
Are there any other terms that you can search in
10:38:43
12
10:38:44
13
A.
Yes.
10:38:46
14
Q.
What are those?
10:38:48
15
A.
"Recipient" -- well, I guess that would be
10:38:53
16
"from."
10:38:54
17
Q.
So "recipient" isn't different from "from," is
10:39:03
18
10:39:03
19
A.
Mail archiva kind of separates "recipient" and
10:39:03
20
"to," no -- I am sorry -- "from," as far as -- you can
10:39:05
21
include a "BC" field, blank copy field, a "CC" field,
10:39:12
22
other criteria like that.
10:39:15
23
10:39:20
24
10:39:24
25
in the "to" field?
"from" field?
archiva program according to date or date ranges?
the mail archiva database?
it?
Again, very involved fields we don't use.

Q.
Do you have an understanding of how much time it
would take you to create an e-mail log using the mail
24
25
10:39:28
archiva system?
10:39:29
A.
I cannot create a log in the mail archiva system.
10:39:35
Q.
Why can't you?
10:39:36
A.
It's a feature that's not available in the
10:39:39
10:39:42
Q.
Was a decision made to not utilize that feature?
10:39:49
A.
No.
10:39:55
10:39:57
10:40:00
10
10:40:04
11
10:40:08
12
10:40:46
13
10:40:52
14
M. Luers, dated March 28th, 2014, is marked as Exhibit
10:40:57
15
P-4 for identification.)
10:41:22
16
10:41:27
17
10:41:31
18
10:41:33
19
a second, but it's a cover letter to Defendant's Answers
10:41:38
20
to our Interrogatories and the interrogatory answers
10:41:42
21
themselves.
10:41:42
22
A.
Okay.
10:41:43
23
Q.
I am handing you P-4.
10:41:47
24
10:41:50
25
version we have.
No.
It just wasn't available in the version
that we purchased.
Q.
Are you aware of any way in the mail archiva
system to create a log of archiva e-mails?

A.
There is in the Enterprise edition, which we did
not purchase.
(Letter from Michael J. Fitzgerald to Walter
Q.
have marked as P-4.

I will hand it to you and you can describe it in
Please take a moment to look at it and let me

know if you agree to my characterization of that
10:41:52
document.
10:42:21
10:42:23
10:42:25
10:42:29
communication that you may have had with -- you know --
10:42:32
Mr. Fitzgerald or any other attorney that might be
10:42:34
working on this case, did you have a role in the
10:42:38
preparation of the Interrogatories?
10:42:41
A.
I did.
10:42:46
10
Q.
I would like to direct your attention to the
10:42:49
11
10:42:53
12
10:42:58
13
A through J, and your Certification in Paragraph 8 has
10:43:05
14
steps A through K.
10:43:06
15
This isn't an "I got you" question.
10:43:10
16
I want to know if there is any substantive --
10:43:13
17
take your time to compare them -- is there any
10:43:16
18
substantive difference between the interrogatory answer
10:43:23
19
one and Paragraph 8 of your October 16th, 2013
10:43:30
20
Certification?
10:43:31
21
10:43:33
22
10:43:40
23
10:43:45
24
result outline, which just, basically, states if the
10:43:52
25
search brings back more than 500 --
A.
Yes, this appears to be the answers to the
Interrogatories.
Q.
Without getting into the substance of any
answer to interrogatory number one.

The answer to interrogatory number one has steps
I only ask it because the letters and the steps

are different, but is there any substantive difference?
A.
The only difference I see is I excluded the
26
27
10:43:57
MR. FITZGERALD:
10:43:59
THE WITNESS:
10:44:02
Basically, it just states if the search
10:44:06
returns more than 500 results in a date range, the
10:44:13
search has to be performed again from the end of that
10:44:16
date range.
10:44:21
10:44:29
10:44:30
A.
No.
10:44:32
10
Q.
So the two items both describe the steps that are
10:44:44
11
10:44:47
12
A.
Correct.
10:44:48
13
Q.
And there is nothing you would change or there is
10:44:54
14
10:44:57
15
A.
None that stick out, no.
10:45:00
16
Q.
Fair enough.
10:45:01
17
Now, with respect to the interrogatory response
10:45:12
18
number one, those steps are for the Data Storage tool.
10:45:19
19
Correct?
10:45:19
20
A.
Yes.
10:45:19
21
Q.
And with respect to Paragraph 8 of your October
10:45:21
22
16th Certification, those steps are also with respect to
10:45:25
23
the Data Storage Corporation tool?
10:45:27
24
A.
Yes.
10:45:28
25
Q.
And with reference to answer number two in the
Q.
You are referring to G?
Yes, G in P-3.
It will not give you more than 500 results.
So other than that difference, is there any other
difference of substance?
No, I don't believe so.
necessary to create an e-mail log.
Correct?
no mistake, is there?
28
10:45:35
Interrogatories, answer number two relates to what we
10:45:40
just discussed before in terms of there coming a time in
10:45:44
July 2013 when the municipal e-mail storage system
10:45:50
stopped being the Data Storage tool and began
10:45:54
becoming -- began -- well, began the use of the mail
10:46:00
archiva tool?
10:46:00
A.
Yes.
10:46:00
Q.
I would like to talk a little bit about the
10:46:04
10:46:08
10
10:46:13
11
10:46:20
12
10:46:23
13
e-mail server, but the e-mail server has a feature.
10:46:28
14
It's called a "copy all" feature, so any incoming and
10:46:33
15
outgoing e-mail is sent to an e-mail account.
10:46:39
16
10:46:43
17
pulls that e-mail account -- as the e-mails come in, it
10:46:49
18
pulls them and puts them into a data storage.
10:47:02
19
Q.
Is that it?
10:47:05
20
A.
Yes.
10:47:09
21
Q.
To make sure that I understand -- that was a very
10:47:14
22
clear response -- but to make sure I understand, with
10:47:20
23
respect to any e-mail that is sent or received by any
10:47:27
24
township person who has an e-mail account with the
10:47:30
25
township or any police officer, that e-mail is copied to
mechanics of the Data Storage.

As best as you can tell, how does the Data
Storage archiving tool work?
A.
It's -- I shouldn't say "integrated" with the
The Data Storage Corporation InBoxer appliance
29
10:47:36
a designated e-mail account?
10:47:39
A.
Yes.
10:47:39
Q.
And the Data Storage tool knows to make copies of
10:47:46
all the e-mails that are sent to the designated e-mail
10:47:51
account?
10:47:52
A.
10:47:55
10:47:58
10:48:05
10:48:13
10
10:48:13
11
A.
Yes.
10:48:13
12
Q.
And are the e-mails in the Data Storage tool
10:48:24
13
10:48:27
14
A.
Yes.
10:48:28
15
Q.
Are the e-mails deleted automatically or does the
10:48:34
16
10:48:38
17
A.
It needs to be told to delete them.
10:48:40
18
Q.
So if you did nothing, the Data Storage tool
10:48:44
19
10:48:48
20
A.
Correct.
10:48:51
21
Q.
-- unless it got wiped out by a hurricane or
10:48:53
22
10:48:54
23
A.
Yes.
10:48:55
24
Q.
And there is no reason for you to believe that
10:48:59
25
It pulls that account and pulls them from the
InBox.
Q.
So the Data Storage device keeps copies of every
e-mail sent or received by any person with a township

e-mail account?
stored on the server until deleted?
Data Storage tool need to be told to delete them?
would keep the copies of the pulled e-mails forever --
something?
the e-mails that are the subject of Mr. Paff's OPRA
30
10:49:02
request wouldn't be on the Data Storage tool?
10:49:05
10:49:09
MR. LUERS:
10:49:13
Off the record.
10:49:14
(Whereupon, a discussion takes place off the
11:01:45
record.)
11:01:45
Q.
11:01:50
11:01:56
11:02:00
10
those e-mails after the seven year request to destroy
11:02:06
11
from the state.
11:02:07
12
11:02:13
13
11:02:18
14
11:02:20
15
check with.
11:02:24
16
is completely different.
11:02:26
17
11:02:28
18
11:02:32
19
11:02:35
20
11:02:40
21
11:02:40
22
11:02:40
23
11:02:46
24
how the Data Storage tool archives e-mails for the
11:02:50
25
police department as opposed to the -- you know --
A.
No reason.
I would like to take a break.
Why is Galloway Township continuing to maintain
the Data Storage tool?

A.
Q.
Well, we are going to have to until we can merge
Is there any way of moving the archived e-mails
from the Data Storage tool to the mail archiva tool?

A.
I am not aware.
That's something I would have to
I am pretty sure the architecture of both
I don't believe that it will be.

Q.
So right now you're maintaining the Data Storage
tool because you have to?

A.
Well, it is actively archiving for the police
department.
Q.
That's right.
Is there any difference in substance in terms of
31
11:02:54
municipal employees?
11:02:55
11:02:58
11:03:01
11:03:04
11:03:12
Storage tool operates today in comparison to how it
11:03:18
operated from the municipal employees in June 2013?
11:03:22
A.
No.
11:03:23
Q.
In other words, for the police e-mails there is a
11:03:28
10
11:03:30
11
A.
Correct.
11:03:31
12
Q.
And the e-mails get copied to a designated e-mail
11:03:34
13
account.
11:03:35
14
A.
Yes.
11:03:35
15
Q.
The Data Storage tool pools the e-mails.
11:03:38
16
Correct?
11:03:38
17
A.
Correct.
11:03:39
18
Q.
And copies them to the server.
11:03:41
19
A.
Yes.
11:03:41
20
Q.
Okay.
11:03:46
21
The Data Storage tool, with respect to the police
11:03:49
22
mechanically, it operates in the same way as it did with
11:03:53
23
respect to municipal employees back in June 2013?
11:03:56
24
11:03:59
25
A.
Completely different.
Like I just said, the
architecture is completely different.

Q.
Well, no, let me be more clear.

Is there any difference in terms of how the Data
"copy all."
A.
Correct?
Correct?
Correct?
That was my question.
Correct.
MR. LUERS:
I don't have any further
32
11:04:00
11:04:01
MR. FITZGERALD:
11:04:02
MR. LUERS:
11:04:03
Thank you, Mr. McCarthy.
11:04:16
THE WITNESS:
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
questions.
I have no questions.
Okay.
Thank you.
.
33
1
2
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, PHILIP A. FISHMAN, a Certified Shorthand Reporter
3 and Notary Public of the State of New Jersey, do hereby

4 certify that prior to the commencement of the examination,
5 ERIC MCCARTHY was sworn by me to testify the truth, the
6 whole truth and nothing but the truth.
7
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing is a true and
8 accurate transcript of the testimony as taken

9 stenographically by and before me at the time, place and
10 on the date hereinbefore set forth, to the best of my
11 ability.
12
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a relative nor
13 employee nor attorney nor counsel of any of the parties to

14 the action; and that I am neither a relative nor employee
15 of such attorney or counsel; and that I am not financially
16 interested in the action.
17
18
______________________
19
PHILIP A. FISHMAN, CSR
20
21 Dated:____________________
22
23
24
25
0
07960 [1] - 1:24
08221 [1] - 2:10
08809 [1] - 2:4
1
10 [1] - 1:21
100 [4] - 12:21, 12:22,
14:5, 15:24
11 [1] - 3:14
12 [1] - 5:25
15 [1] - 5:23
16th [2] - 26:19, 27:22
17th [2] - 15:20, 22:6
1992 [1] - 17:24
2
20 [1] - 16:23
200 [1] - 12:24
2013 [14] - 7:7, 9:7,
9:25, 20:23, 21:5,
21:11, 22:12, 22:17,
23:6, 23:19, 26:19,
28:3, 31:7, 31:23
2014 [2] - 1:20, 25:14
21 [1] - 10:19
23 [1] - 2:3
25 [1] - 3:15
28th [1] - 25:14
3
3/28/2014 [1] - 3:16
300 [2] - 1:19, 4:1
31 [1] - 1:20
3rd [2] - 15:19, 22:6
4
4 [1] - 3:6
401 [1] - 2:9
5
500 [3] - 26:25, 27:4,
27:6
7
7 [1] - 3:11
732-605-9391 [1] 1:25
8
8 [8] - 12:3, 12:4,
12:10, 13:2, 21:21,
26:13, 26:19, 27:21

89 [1] - 1:24
9
9 [1] - 3:12
973-285-5331 [1] 1:25
A
ability [1] - 33:11
able [2] - 16:3, 18:1
Absecon [2] - 16:19,
16:24
accept [1] - 4:10
according [4] - 4:2,
18:17, 19:16, 24:9
account [8] - 28:15,
28:17, 28:24, 29:1,
29:5, 29:6, 29:10,
31:13
accurate [1] - 33:8
action [2] - 33:14,
33:16
actively [1] - 30:20
adding [1] - 14:22
addresses [1] - 14:17
administration [1] 11:1
Administrator [3] 3:13, 5:7, 9:13
administrator [5] 9:19, 9:21, 10:6,
10:8, 11:11
AGENCY [1] - 1:23
ago [5] - 5:21, 5:23,
5:25, 19:14, 22:20
agree [2] - 21:14,
25:25
agreement [1] - 16:18
almost [1] - 17:4
AND [2] - 1:9, 1:10
answer [8] - 6:11, 9:2,
21:22, 26:11, 26:12,
26:18, 27:25, 28:1
answers [3] - 25:19,
25:20, 26:2
appear [1] - 10:20
appearance [1] - 7:19
APPEARANCES [1] 2:1
appearing [1] - 4:8
APPEARING [2] - 2:5,
2:11
appliance [6] - 9:8,
9:20, 11:8, 22:10,
22:18, 28:16
appliances [1] - 18:25
apply [1] - 13:20
architecture [2] 30:15, 31:3

archiva [20] - 20:19,
20:23, 21:5, 21:8,
21:24, 22:2, 22:8,
22:21, 23:16, 23:20,
23:22, 24:9, 24:12,
24:19, 25:1, 25:2,
25:9, 25:10, 28:6,
30:13
archival [7] - 9:22,
9:24, 12:6, 17:25,
18:12, 18:25, 20:13
archive [5] - 8:2, 8:4,
9:6, 9:7, 11:5
archived [4] - 22:11,
24:2, 24:8, 30:12
archives [1] - 30:24
archiving [3] - 7:7,
28:11, 30:20
areas [1] - 5:18
AS [1] - 1:10
associate's [1] - 6:24
associates [1] - 17:5
ATL-L-005428-13 [1] 1:3
Atlantic [3] - 5:1, 6:19,
17:14
ATLANTIC [1] - 1:2
attention [1] - 26:10
attorney [3] - 26:6,
33:13, 33:15
audio [1] - 17:12
automatically [1] 29:15
available [4] - 8:18,
8:24, 25:4, 25:7
average [3] - 15:2,
15:4
averages [1] - 16:20
aware [6] - 8:16, 11:3,
19:22, 20:6, 25:9,
30:14
B
backbones [1] - 5:15
based [2] - 15:21,
15:24
basic [3] - 5:10, 6:9,
6:21
basis [1] - 15:15
BC [1] - 24:21
becoming [1] - 28:5
began [3] - 28:4, 28:5
beginning [1] - 4:6
BEHALF [2] - 2:5, 2:11
behalf [1] - 4:11
best [2] - 28:10, 33:10
better [2] - 19:21, 22:4
between [2] - 17:14,

26:18
big [1] - 14:18
bit [2] - 9:5, 28:8
blank [1] - 24:21
break [3] - 4:20, 4:21,
30:3
brings [1] - 26:25
browse [1] - 10:17
Building [1] - 1:19
business [2] - 13:7,
13:14
BY [2] - 2:8, 4:4
C
cannot [1] - 25:2
capacity [1] - 4:15
CAPACITY [1] - 1:10
Cape [2] - 5:2, 6:19
case [2] - 8:23, 26:7
CC [1] - 24:21
certainly [1] - 10:18
certification [2] - 7:6,
27:22
Certification [10] 3:14, 5:20, 5:22,
11:14, 11:20, 11:21,
12:9, 12:10, 26:13,
26:20
certifications [14] 5:3, 5:4, 5:5, 5:17,
5:24, 6:1, 6:2, 6:4,
6:14, 6:16, 7:1, 7:2,
7:3
certified [3] - 5:9,
5:18, 6:6
Certified [8] - 1:17,
5:6, 5:7, 5:10, 5:13,
5:14, 33:2
certify [1] - 33:4
CERTIFY [2] - 33:7,
33:12
chance [1] - 10:15
change [2] - 12:11,
27:13
characterization [1] 25:25
check [1] - 30:15
chief [1] - 21:17
city [1] - 16:19
City [1] - 17:14
clear [2] - 28:22, 31:4
CLERK [1] - 1:10
clerk [3] - 13:16,
13:24, 21:16
CLINTON [1] - 2:4
CNA [2] - 5:7, 5:24
College [2] - 5:2, 6:19
coming [2] - 20:3,
28:2
commencement [1] 33:4
commencing [1] 1:21
communication [1] 26:5
Community [2] - 5:2,
6:19
company [1] - 17:5
compare [1] - 26:17
comparison [1] - 31:6
completely [3] 30:16, 31:2, 31:3
computer [5] - 5:1,
5:10, 6:21, 16:13,
17:13
concerned [2] - 13:23,
14:1
contain [1] - 11:4
contains [1] - 10:19
content [1] - 18:6
contents [1] - 10:20
continuing [1] - 30:7
copied [2] - 28:25,
31:12
copies [4] - 29:3, 29:8,
29:19, 31:18
copy [4] - 7:13, 24:21,
28:14, 31:10
Corporation [11] - 9:9,
9:22, 11:5, 20:13,
20:22, 21:23, 21:25,
22:8, 22:10, 27:23,
28:16
correct [25] - 4:14,
12:15, 18:18, 18:19,
19:2, 19:3, 19:5,
20:24, 21:1, 21:6,
21:19, 22:17, 22:22,
23:14, 27:11, 27:12,
27:19, 29:20, 31:10,
31:11, 31:13, 31:16,
31:17, 31:18, 31:24
counsel [4] - 4:5,
4:17, 33:13, 33:15
COUNTY [1] - 1:2
course [2] - 13:7,
13:14
courses [1] - 7:5
COURT [2] - 1:1, 1:23
court [1] - 7:16
cover [1] - 25:19
covered [1] - 19:6
create [12] - 10:9,
11:22, 15:7, 15:8,
16:3, 22:5, 22:15,
23:5, 24:25, 25:2,
25:10, 27:11
created [1] - 12:19
creating [1] - 13:3

creation [1] - 12:14
credits [1] - 6:22
criteria [2] - 14:12,
24:22
CROSS [1] - 3:3
CSR [1] - 33:19
current [1] - 13:11
CUSTODIAN [1] - 1:11
D
data [8] - 8:23, 12:5,
17:25, 18:13, 21:4,
23:3, 28:18, 29:12
Data [32] - 9:8, 9:22,
11:5, 20:13, 20:22,
21:23, 21:25, 22:7,
22:10, 22:12, 22:16,
23:2, 23:7, 23:14,
27:18, 27:23, 28:4,
28:9, 28:10, 28:16,
29:3, 29:8, 29:16,
29:18, 30:1, 30:8,
30:13, 30:18, 30:24,
31:5, 31:15, 31:21
database [1] - 24:12
date [12] - 14:17,
14:18, 18:7, 18:8,
18:17, 18:18, 22:9,
24:9, 27:4, 27:6,
33:10
dated [2] - 25:14,
33:21
decision [1] - 25:6
defendant's [1] 25:19
DEFENDANTS [1] 2:11
Defendants [1] - 1:12
degree [2] - 6:20, 6:24
delete [2] - 29:16,
29:17
deleted [2] - 29:13,
29:15
department [6] 13:20, 14:2, 16:14,
20:17, 30:21, 30:25
DEPOSITION [1] - 1:7
Deposition [2] - 7:13,
7:18
deposition [3] - 3:11,
4:6, 7:10
describe [4] - 4:24,
7:25, 25:18, 27:10
described [3] - 5:17,
6:18, 21:20
DESCRIPTION [1] 3:10
designated [3] - 29:1,
29:4, 31:12
destroy [1] - 30:10
device [3] - 8:1, 18:23,
29:8
difference [7] - 26:18,
26:22, 26:23, 27:7,
27:8, 30:23, 31:5
different [8] - 14:15,
14:16, 18:4, 24:17,
26:22, 30:16, 31:2,
31:3
differently [1] - 8:21
digital [1] - 13:6
direct [1] - 26:10
DIRECT [2] - 3:3, 4:4
directly [1] - 16:24
discussed [2] - 18:15,
28:2
discusses [1] - 10:8
discussing [1] - 23:12
discussion [1] - 30:5
DIVISION [1] - 1:2
DO [2] - 33:7, 33:12
DOCKET [1] - 1:3
document [11] - 3:12,
7:15, 9:12, 9:15,
9:18, 10:16, 11:3,
11:16, 11:19, 25:16,
26:1
documents [1] - 13:25
done [3] - 12:15,
12:17, 13:4
doubt [1] - 16:8
duly [1] - 4:2
E
e-mail [38] - 7:7, 8:2,
8:4, 8:6, 8:13, 10:4,
10:9, 12:14, 12:19,
13:3, 14:17, 18:6,
18:21, 19:10, 19:16,
19:24, 20:8, 22:3,
22:6, 22:20, 23:19,
24:25, 27:11, 28:3,
28:13, 28:15, 28:17,
28:23, 28:24, 28:25,
29:1, 29:4, 29:9,
29:10, 31:12
e-mails [31] - 8:9,
8:13, 8:17, 9:7, 11:4,
13:23, 14:1, 16:9,
20:15, 20:18, 21:15,
21:17, 22:7, 22:11,
23:6, 23:25, 24:2,
24:8, 25:10, 28:17,
29:4, 29:12, 29:15,
29:19, 29:25, 30:10,
30:12, 30:24, 31:9,
31:12, 31:15
East [1] - 1:19

east [1] - 4:1
edition [1] - 25:11
Edmunds [2] - 17:5,
17:10
education [1] - 4:25
effect [2] - 9:24, 9:25
eight [1] - 6:23
employed [1] - 16:12
employee [5] - 4:9,
4:16, 7:23, 33:13,
33:14
employees [3] - 31:1,
31:7, 31:23
employer [1] - 16:22
end [1] - 27:5
engage [1] - 12:5
engineer [1] - 6:6
entail [1] - 6:7
enterprise [1] - 25:11
entire [1] - 10:15
entirely [1] - 14:12
entitled [2] - 3:12,
9:12
ERIC [3] - 1:8, 3:5,
33:5
Eric [3] - 3:14, 4:1,
11:14
ESQ [2] - 2:2, 2:8
estimate [1] - 15:21
estimates [1] - 21:21
EXAMINATION [1] 4:4
examination [1] - 33:4
excluded [1] - 26:23
exhibit [1] - 10:19
Exhibit [4] - 7:10,
9:13, 11:15, 25:14
experience [3] 15:16, 15:17, 15:24
F
facts [1] - 8:16
fair [5] - 13:22, 18:1,
18:10, 19:20, 27:16
familiar [1] - 18:23
far [1] - 24:20
FAX [1] - 1:25
FAY [1] - 1:10
feature [4] - 25:4,
25:6, 28:13, 28:14
features [1] - 19:1
few [2] - 4:5, 6:20
field [8] - 5:4, 18:16,
24:3, 24:6, 24:21
fields [6] - 18:10, 19:4,
19:6, 23:13, 24:23
fifteen [1] - 5:21
figured [1] - 20:11
finance [1] - 17:6

financially [1] - 33:15
finished [1] - 6:11
first [2] - 13:21, 18:24
FISHMAN [4] - 1:16,
1:23, 33:2, 33:19
FITZGERALD [8] 2:7, 2:8, 4:13, 7:14,
8:19, 8:25, 27:1,
32:2
Fitzgerald [3] - 4:10,
10:23, 26:6
fitzgerald [3] - 3:15,
4:11, 25:13
five [4] - 14:19, 15:4,
19:14
flagship [1] - 17:13
Flagship [1] - 17:18
focus [1] - 12:2
focuses [1] - 11:1
focusing [1] - 13:1
folder [1] - 11:11
follows [1] - 4:3
foregoing [1] - 33:7
forenoon [1] - 1:21
forever [1] - 29:19
form [2] - 8:19, 8:25
format [1] - 13:6
forth [1] - 33:10
full [2] - 16:15, 16:22
full-time [2] - 16:15,
16:22
FURTHER [2] - 33:7,
33:12
G
GALLOWAY [2] - 1:9,
1:11
galloway [1] - 16:12
Galloway [11] - 1:18,
1:20, 4:1, 8:1, 8:8,
12:20, 16:23, 19:7,
19:23, 20:7, 30:7
gee [1] - 12:21
generally [1] - 14:3
government [1] - 17:6
graduate [1] - 17:23
guess [2] - 15:23,
24:15
Guide [2] - 3:13, 9:13
guide [4] - 9:19, 9:21,
10:7, 10:8
guides [1] - 11:9
H
half [1] - 17:12
hand [2] - 14:4, 25:18
handing [5] - 7:15,
9:15, 11:16, 25:16,

25:23
handle [1] - 14:2
handling [1] - 13:25
hard [1] - 12:25
hardware [4] - 5:11,
5:15, 16:7, 17:7
Headquarters [1] 1:24
held [1] - 17:1
help [1] - 4:17
HER [1] - 1:10
hereby [1] - 33:3
hereinbefore [1] 33:10
high [3] - 4:25, 17:22,
17:23
house [2] - 8:6, 17:13
hurricane [1] - 29:21
I
identification [4] 7:11, 9:14, 11:15,
25:15
identified [1] - 9:16
identify [3] - 7:17,
9:18, 11:19
imply [1] - 13:11
IN [1] - 1:10
in-house [1] - 17:13
inBox [1] - 29:7
Inboxer [2] - 9:10,
28:16
include [1] - 24:21
incoming [2] - 8:5,
28:14
incorrect [1] - 12:12
industry [1] - 5:8
information [2] - 8:16,
18:20
infrastructure [1] 16:13
infrastructures [1] 5:15
instructions [1] - 11:4
integrated [1] - 28:12
interested [1] - 33:16
Interrogatories [4] 25:20, 26:3, 26:8,
28:1
interrogatory [5] 25:20, 26:11, 26:12,
26:18, 27:17
involved [1] - 24:23
IT [1] - 16:20
items [2] - 18:9, 27:10
itself [4] - 14:19,
14:24, 18:23, 22:3
J
JERSEY [3] - 1:1, 2:4,
2:10
Jersey [5] - 1:18, 1:20,
1:24, 4:2, 33:3
Jimmie [2] - 1:19, 4:1
jobs [2] - 16:17
JOHN [1] - 1:6
July [6] - 20:23, 21:11,
22:12, 22:17, 23:19,
28:3
June [8] - 9:6, 9:25,
15:19, 15:20, 22:6,
31:7, 31:23
K
keep [1] - 29:19
keeps [1] - 29:8
Key [1] - 23:24
key [5] - 14:16, 14:22,
18:6, 18:15, 23:22
kind [2] - 17:14, 24:19
knowledge [4] - 5:14,
6:8, 6:9, 7:4
knowledgeable [1] 14:6
knows [1] - 29:3
L
law [1] - 4:2
LAW [1] - 1:2
lawsuit [1] - 8:12
Leads [1] - 1:19
least [3] - 12:22,
12:24, 15:24
leeds [1] - 4:1
left [1] - 17:15
less [1] - 14:21
letter [3] - 3:15, 25:13,
25:19
letters [1] - 26:21
limited [1] - 13:6
LINWOOD [1] - 2:10
list [1] - 11:23
litigation [1] - 10:3
living [1] - 16:11
local [1] - 17:6
log [11] - 9:1, 13:3,
22:5, 22:15, 22:20,
23:5, 23:20, 24:25,
25:2, 25:10, 27:11
Logic [2] - 3:12, 9:12
logs [16] - 8:13, 8:22,
10:4, 10:9, 12:14,
12:19, 15:6, 15:9,
15:25, 16:3, 19:10,
19:16, 19:24, 20:8,
23:6
look [3] - 9:17, 10:15,
25:24
LUERS [9] - 2:2, 4:4,
4:5, 4:15, 7:12,
11:13, 30:3, 31:25,
32:3
luers [2] - 3:16, 25:14
Luers [1] - 3:6
M
mail [56] - 7:7, 8:2,
8:4, 8:6, 8:13, 10:4,
10:9, 12:14, 12:19,
13:3, 14:17, 18:6,
18:21, 19:10, 19:16,
19:24, 20:8, 20:19,
20:22, 21:5, 21:8,
21:23, 22:2, 22:3,
22:6, 22:8, 22:20,
23:16, 23:19, 23:20,
23:22, 24:8, 24:12,
24:25, 25:2, 25:9,
27:11, 28:3, 28:5,
28:13, 28:15, 28:17,
28:23, 28:24, 28:25,
29:1, 29:4, 29:9,
29:10, 30:13, 31:12
Mail [1] - 24:19
mails [31] - 8:9, 8:13,
8:17, 9:7, 11:4,
13:23, 14:1, 16:9,
20:15, 20:18, 21:15,
21:17, 22:7, 22:11,
23:6, 23:25, 24:2,
24:8, 25:10, 28:17,
29:4, 29:12, 29:15,
29:19, 29:25, 30:10,
30:12, 30:24, 31:9,
31:12, 31:15
MAIN [1] - 2:3
maintain [2] - 16:13,
30:7
maintaining [1] 30:18
maintenance [1] 5:12
MALINSKY [1] - 2:7
manuals [1] - 11:10
March [2] - 1:20, 25:14
mark [1] - 11:13
marked [7] - 7:10,
7:16, 9:13, 11:14,
11:17, 25:14, 25:17
Marriott [3] - 17:11,
17:14, 17:19
match [1] - 10:20
McCarthy [11] - 3:14,
4:1, 4:8, 4:12, 4:18,
7:15, 9:15, 11:14,

11:16, 25:16, 32:4
MCCARTHY [3] - 1:8,
3:5, 33:5
MCGROARTY [1] - 2:7
MCSE [1] - 6:6
mean [4] - 5:9, 5:13,
8:4, 9:4
mechanically [1] 31:22
mechanics [1] - 28:9
merge [1] - 30:9
Message [2] - 3:12,
9:12
messages [1] - 8:6
MICHAEL [1] - 2:8
Michael [2] - 3:15,
25:13
Microsoft [5] - 6:2,
6:4, 6:6, 6:8, 6:13
might [1] - 26:6
minutes [6] - 14:19,
15:4, 15:5, 15:10,
15:15, 15:22
mistake [1] - 27:14
moment [3] - 9:17,
11:18, 25:24
Monday [1] - 1:20
morning [2] - 4:18,
4:19
Morristown [1] - 1:24
moving [1] - 30:12
MR [14] - 4:4, 4:5,
4:13, 4:15, 7:12,
7:14, 8:19, 8:25,
11:13, 27:1, 30:3,
31:25, 32:2, 32:3
multiple [1] - 14:16
MUNICIPAL [1] - 1:10
municipal [13] - 13:23,
20:15, 20:18, 20:21,
21:12, 21:15, 22:23,
22:24, 23:7, 28:3,
31:1, 31:7, 31:23
Municipal [1] - 1:19
N
name [1] - 9:10
necessarily [1] - 19:18
necessary [1] - 27:11
need [2] - 4:20, 29:16
needs [1] - 29:17
neighboring [1] 16:19
Network [3] - 5:6,
5:13, 5:22
network [1] - 5:14
networking [3] - 5:14,
5:15, 6:9
NEW [4] - 1:1, 2:4, 2:9,

2:10
New [5] - 1:18, 1:20,
1:24, 4:1, 33:3
nine [1] - 17:2
NO [1] - 1:3
none [1] - 27:15
normally [3] - 13:16,
13:17, 14:8
North [1] - 1:24
northfield [1] - 17:5
Notary [2] - 1:17, 33:3
nothing [5] - 7:3, 20:9,
27:13, 29:18, 33:6
notice [3] - 3:11, 7:10,
7:20
Notice [2] - 7:13, 7:18
noticed [1] - 19:25
Novel [1] - 5:7
number [5] - 26:11,
26:12, 27:18, 27:25,
28:1
NUMBER [1] - 3:10
O
o'clock [1] - 1:21
oath [1] - 4:3
object [2] - 8:19, 8:25
obtained [2] - 6:20,
7:4
obviously [1] - 14:21
October [4] - 11:20,
11:21, 26:19, 27:21
OF [5] - 1:1, 1:11, 1:7,
2:5, 2:11
offer [1] - 7:9
officer [1] - 28:25
officers [1] - 21:18
offices [1] - 1:18
official [1] - 7:3
OFFICIAL [1] - 1:10
officially [1] - 19:25
old [1] - 11:11
older [1] - 16:7
ON [2] - 2:5, 2:11
once [1] - 14:3
one [12] - 12:5, 14:15,
15:12, 18:12, 18:24,
20:14, 20:16, 21:11,
26:11, 26:12, 26:19,
27:18
operated [1] - 31:7
operates [2] - 31:6,
31:22
operating [2] - 5:11,
6:8
operations [2] - 13:24,
14:1
opposed [1] - 30:25
OPRA [11] - 8:12,

10:4, 13:19, 19:10,
19:16, 19:17, 19:24,
20:8, 20:10, 22:19,
29:25
order [1] - 22:5
ordinary [2] - 13:7,
13:14
outgoing [2] - 8:6,
28:15
outline [1] - 26:24
outlines [1] - 11:22
overkill [1] - 18:23
own [1] - 21:7
P
P-1 [3] - 3:11, 7:11,
7:16
P-2 [3] - 3:12, 9:13,
9:16
P-3 [4] - 3:14, 11:15,
11:17, 27:2
P-4 [4] - 3:15, 25:15,
25:17, 25:23
P.A [1] - 2:7
PAFF [1] - 1:6
Paff [5] - 8:22, 15:6,
15:12, 22:5, 22:15
Paff's [2] - 10:3, 29:25
PAGE [1] - 3:10
page [2] - 10:12, 11:25
pages [2] - 10:19,
10:20
Paragraph [8] - 12:2,
12:4, 12:10, 13:2,
21:21, 26:13, 26:19,
27:21
part [1] - 16:17
part-time [1] - 16:17
particular [3] - 15:6,
22:3, 22:9
parties [1] - 33:13
past [4] - 12:15, 13:4,
13:10, 13:15
pending [1] - 4:22
percent [2] - 14:5,
16:23
perform [13] - 10:11,
11:23, 13:2, 13:5,
13:15, 13:18, 14:10,
15:2, 18:1, 18:5,
23:22, 24:2, 24:5
performed [4] - 6:18,
11:9, 15:11, 27:5
period [2] - 8:8, 15:18
person [4] - 18:7,
28:24, 29:9
personally [1] - 12:17
pertained [1] - 14:15
PHILIP [4] - 1:16,

1:23, 33:2, 33:19
piece [1] - 16:7
place [5] - 4:7, 20:14,
20:16, 30:5, 33:9
PLAINTIFF [1] - 2:5
plaintiff [1] - 8:13
Plaintiff [1] - 1:7
plaintiff's [2] - 7:16,
9:16
Plaza [1] - 1:24
plus [1] - 5:20
Plus [6] - 5:6, 5:9,
5:10, 5:14, 5:22
point [4] - 19:15,
19:22, 20:2, 20:3
police [20] - 13:20,
14:1, 16:14, 20:17,
20:25, 21:3, 21:4,
21:12, 21:17, 22:25,
23:1, 23:2, 23:6,
28:25, 30:20, 30:25,
31:9, 31:21
policy [1] - 19:23
pools [1] - 31:15
position [4] - 13:9,
13:12, 16:15, 17:1
post [1] - 4:24
practice [1] - 19:23
preparation [1] - 26:8
prepare [1] - 19:24
pretty [1] - 30:15
print [1] - 11:23
printer [1] - 5:11
printing [1] - 13:25
printout [1] - 10:22
problem [1] - 16:4
product [1] - 9:10
program [2] - 9:6,
24:9
property [1] - 8:7
proprietary [1] - 7:2
provide [2] - 17:6,
20:8
provided [3] - 9:8,
9:22, 11:6
provides [1] - 16:20
providing [1] - 16:4
Public [2] - 1:17, 33:3
pulled [1] - 29:19
pulls [4] - 28:17,
28:18, 29:6
purchase [1] - 25:12
purchased [2] - 11:8,
25:8
pursuant [1] - 7:20
puts [1] - 28:18
Q
questions [3] - 12:2,
32:1, 32:2
quite [1] - 9:3
R
range [7] - 14:18,
14:20, 18:8, 18:18,
22:9, 27:4, 27:6
ranges [2] - 14:17,
24:9
re [2] - 12:8, 12:10
re-reading [2] - 12:8,
12:10
reached [1] - 4:5
reading [2] - 12:8,
12:10
really [1] - 13:10
reason [5] - 16:2,
16:8, 16:10, 29:24,
30:2
received [5] - 5:2, 5:5,
22:19, 28:23, 29:9
recipient [3] - 24:15,
24:17, 24:19
record [3] - 4:7, 30:4,
30:6
RECORDS [1] - 1:10
RECROSS [1] - 3:3
redaction [4] - 13:5,
13:20, 13:25, 14:2
REDIRECT [1] - 3:3
reference [3] - 9:1,
14:25, 27:25
referring [1] - 27:1
relates [1] - 28:1
relative [2] - 33:12,
33:14
remember [1] - 19:9
repair [2] - 5:10, 5:11
Reporter [2] - 1:17,
33:2
reporter [1] - 7:16
REPORTING [1] - 1:23
represent [2] - 10:22,
15:19
representing [1] 4:11
request [7] - 8:12,
10:4, 13:19, 14:13,
22:19, 30:1, 30:10
requested [3] - 8:23,
19:17, 22:5
requests [8] - 19:11,
19:16, 19:17, 19:24,
20:3, 20:5, 20:8,
20:10
respect [16] - 7:6,
8:11, 12:4, 12:5,

12:14, 13:1, 13:22,
15:6, 17:25, 21:23,
27:17, 27:21, 27:22,
28:23, 31:21, 31:23
response [6] - 10:3,
19:10, 19:24, 20:8,
27:17, 28:22
responsibility [1] 13:2
responsible [1] 13:24
result [1] - 26:24
results [2] - 27:4, 27:6
retention [2] - 8:7, 8:8
returns [1] - 27:4
review [1] - 11:18
ROAD [1] - 2:9
Road [1] - 1:19
road [1] - 4:1
role [1] - 26:7
run [4] - 8:22, 22:14,
23:5, 23:7
S
school [3] - 4:25,
17:22, 17:23
science [1] - 5:1
search [32] - 10:11,
10:25, 11:4, 11:9,
11:23, 14:18, 14:19,
14:24, 15:11, 15:18,
18:6, 18:13, 18:15,
18:16, 18:17, 18:20,
18:22, 19:4, 19:6,
21:22, 22:1, 22:3,
22:14, 23:5, 23:12,
24:8, 24:11, 26:25,
27:3, 27:5
searches [6] - 14:22,
18:2, 18:4, 23:23,
24:2, 24:5
Seaview [1] - 17:11
second [2] - 11:25,
25:19
secondary [1] - 4:24
see [5] - 10:13, 10:14,
10:24, 26:23
seeking [1] - 8:14
semesters [1] - 6:21
sent [4] - 28:15, 28:23,
29:4, 29:9
separate [1] - 21:9
separates [1] - 24:19
server [12] - 5:16, 6:8,
11:12, 18:13, 21:6,
21:11, 22:12, 28:13,
29:13, 31:18
servers [1] - 21:9
service [3] - 4:10, 8:6,

16:18
services [2] - 16:20,
17:12
set [1] - 33:10
seven [2] - 8:10, 30:10
shared [1] - 16:18
shorter [1] - 14:20
Shorthand [2] - 1:17,
33:2
show [2] - 10:6, 10:7
shows [1] - 10:11
signature [1] - 11:24
site [1] - 16:21
sitting [1] - 12:8
skips [1] - 10:25
software [5] - 7:2,
9:22, 11:5, 17:4,
17:6
sometime [1] - 21:5
sorry [5] - 6:10, 7:12,
11:2, 17:16, 24:20
sounds [1] - 16:23
specific [5] - 18:7,
18:17, 18:18
spend [1] - 16:23
standard [1] - 5:8
standards [1] - 5:4
started [1] - 19:9
state [1] - 30:11
State [2] - 1:18, 33:3
states [2] - 26:24, 27:3
Stenographically [1] 1:16
stenographically [1] 33:9
step [1] - 14:25
steps [15] - 10:8,
11:22, 13:3, 13:15,
13:23, 14:10, 15:3,
21:20, 21:21, 26:12,
26:14, 26:21, 27:10,
27:18, 27:22
stick [1] - 27:15
sticks [1] - 20:9
still [5] - 8:23, 20:14,
21:3, 23:2, 23:3
stipulated [1] - 4:8
stipulations [2] - 4:6,
4:13
stop [1] - 19:25
stopped [7] - 19:15,
19:19, 20:2, 20:3,
20:5, 20:10, 28:4
storage [6] - 5:16,
17:25, 21:4, 28:3,
28:18, 29:12
Storage [34] - 9:9,
9:22, 11:5, 12:6,
20:13, 20:22, 21:23,
21:25, 22:7, 22:10,

22:12, 22:16, 23:2,
23:3, 23:7, 23:14,
27:18, 27:23, 28:4,
28:9, 28:11, 28:16,
29:3, 29:8, 29:16,
29:18, 30:1, 30:8,
30:13, 30:18, 30:24,
31:6, 31:15, 31:21
stored [4] - 18:13,
22:9, 22:18, 29:13
storing [1] - 8:5
STREET [1] - 2:3
studies [3] - 5:1, 6:19,
6:21
subject [4] - 8:12,
10:2, 14:15, 29:25
subjects [1] - 14:16
subpoena [1] - 4:10
substance [3] - 26:4,
27:8, 30:23
substantive [3] 26:16, 26:18, 26:22
suggest [1] - 8:17
SUPERIOR [1] - 1:1
superiors [1] - 14:4
switch [1] - 21:4
switched [2] - 20:21,
20:25
sworn [2] - 4:2, 33:5
system [12] - 5:11,
8:1, 9:24, 12:6, 16:5,
18:1, 18:12, 20:14,
25:1, 25:2, 25:10,
28:3
systems [2] - 6:8, 7:7
T
tab [2] - 10:25, 11:1
table [1] - 10:20
tasks [1] - 12:4
tax [1] - 17:6
technician [1] - 17:7
ten [5] - 14:15, 14:16,
15:4, 17:4, 17:9
term [1] - 21:14
terms [5] - 9:1, 24:11,
28:2, 30:23, 31:5
testified [1] - 18:9
testifies [1] - 4:2
testify [1] - 33:5
testifying [1] - 7:22
testimony [2] - 1:15,
33:8
THALIA [1] - 1:9
THE [4] - 2:5, 2:11,
27:2, 32:5
themselves [1] - 25:21
three [7] - 5:17, 5:18,
15:10, 15:15, 15:21,

17:12, 17:20
three-and-a-half [1] 17:12
today [9] - 4:9, 4:12,
7:20, 16:3, 22:14,
22:19, 23:6, 23:12,
31:6
tool [36] - 20:19,
20:22, 20:23, 21:4,
21:5, 21:8, 21:23,
21:24, 22:2, 22:8,
22:16, 22:21, 23:8,
23:14, 23:17, 23:20,
23:22, 27:18, 27:23,
28:4, 28:6, 28:11,
29:3, 29:12, 29:16,
29:18, 30:1, 30:8,
30:13, 30:19, 30:24,
31:6, 31:15, 31:21
tools [1] - 21:24
TOWNSHIP [2] - 1:9,
1:11
township [21] - 4:9,
4:15, 7:7, 7:23, 8:1,
9:6, 11:8, 13:8,
13:16, 14:4, 15:7,
16:14, 16:19, 19:7,
19:23, 20:7, 21:16,
28:24, 28:25, 29:9,
30:7
Township [5] - 1:19,
1:20, 12:20, 16:12,
16:22
township's [3] - 10:3,
13:9, 13:12
training [1] - 7:5
transcript [1] - 33:8
true [1] - 33:7
truth [3] - 33:5, 33:6
trying [1] - 13:10
two [10] - 8:3, 15:10,
15:15, 15:18, 15:20,
15:21, 22:20, 27:10,
27:25, 28:1
two-week [1] - 15:18
type [2] - 18:4, 24:5
U
under [1] - 4:3
underlying [2] - 8:17,
16:9
unless [1] - 29:21
up [4] - 7:25, 9:5,
14:18, 23:18
user [1] - 11:9
uses [1] - 18:12
utilize [2] - 8:1, 25:6
V
various [1] - 5:3
version [2] - 25:5,
25:7
visual [1] - 17:12
W
WALTER [1] - 2:2
Walter [2] - 3:16,
25:13
week [2] - 15:18,
16:21
weeks [2] - 15:20,
22:20
WEST [1] - 2:3
whole [3] - 17:19,
17:20, 33:6
wiped [1] - 29:21
WITNESS [3] - 3:3,
27:2, 32:5
word [2] - 18:15,
23:23
wording [1] - 9:3
words [4] - 14:16,
14:22, 18:6, 31:9
Y
year [3] - 17:13, 17:15,
30:10
years [11] - 5:21, 5:23,
5:25, 8:10, 17:2,
17:4, 17:9, 17:12,
17:20, 19:14

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1

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY

LAW DIVISION: ATLANTIC COUNTY

DOCKET NO. ATL-L-005428-13

16 Stenographically by and before PHILIP A. FISHMAN, a

WALTER M. LUERS, ESQ.

23 WEST MAIN STREET

CLINTON, NEW JERSEY 08809

APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF

FITZGERALD, MCGROARTY, MALINSKY, P.A.

401 NEW ROAD

MICHAEL J. FITZGERALD, ESQ.

LINWOOD, NEW JERSEY 08221

APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS

Document entitled "Message Logic

Certification of Eric E. McCarthy

Letter from Michael J. Fitzgerald to

Walter M. Luers, 3/28/2014

McCarthy - direct - Luers

1 Eric McCarthy, 300 East Jimmie Leeds Road, Galloway, New

2 Jersey, having been duly sworn according to law, testifies

3 under oath as follows:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LUERS:

stipulations prior to the beginning of this deposition,

and I would like to place them on the record.

Fitzgerald would accept service of a subpoena on his

behalf, and that Mr. Fitzgerald is also representing Mr.

McCarthy here today.

Good morning, Mr. McCarthy.

If at any time you feel you need to take a break,

let us know, we will take a break as long as there is

not a question pending.

Please describe to me your post secondary -- you

Counsel and I reached a few

We stipulated that Mr. McCarthy is appearing

Those stipulations are

In his capacity as a township

know -- after high school education.

McCarthy - direct - Luers

Cape Community College.

certifications -- various certifications -- I should say

"certifications" in standards in the field after that.

And what "certifications" have you received?

A Plus Certified; Network Plus Certified, and

CNA, which is a Certified Novel Administrator, which is

What does it mean to be "A Plus Certified"?

A Plus Certified is basic computer repair,

printer repair, hardware and operating system

What does it mean to be "Network Certified"?

Network Plus Certified is knowledge of networking

infrastructures, backbones, networking hardware and

server, server and storage, I should say.

When did you get the A Plus Certification?

Fifteen years ago.

When did you get the Network Plus Certification?

The same years, 15 years ago.

When did you get the CNA Certifications?

That was after -- I would say 12 years ago.

I did some computer science studies at Atlantic

You described to me three certifications.

McCarthy - direct - Luers

Any other certifications?