Can 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal of the year of birth of Our prophet

“Rasoolollah Sallallaho Alaehi wasallam” occur on Monday?

Emailing between these astronomers:

"Ebrahim Senior" ebrahimsenior@ctrs.co.za,"Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>,

"Muhammad Odeh" <modeh@icoproject.org>, moon_sighting@yahoogroups.com, "Mashallah
Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>, "Omar Afzal" omarafzal1@yahoo.com, "Shaikh, Salman
Z (Salman)" <salman@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Your Friend Your Friend" <tghsos@hotmail.com>,
"Abdoulaye GAYE" <Senkou5@yahoo.fr>, "Mutoha" <jogja_astroclub@yahoo.com>,
mutoha@rukyatulhilal.org
Introduction of the group of moon_sighting@yahoogroups.com

All members of our group moon_sighting@yahoogroups.com are very much expert of

Astronomy or very much interested in it, so never think that you are sending an email to a group
of both common and proper persons, they all are VIPs of astronomy. Yes Br Odeh & Br Khalid
Shaukat are not a part of this group, while Yallop, Dr Shahid , Dr Abdali etc are also in this group.
It is another issue that they usually don’t participate in discussions due to their social activities as
many recipients of current discussion are not taking part in discussion.

Friday, February 20, 2009 1:04 AM

From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>

Dear Dr Abdurrazzaq (+ other)

Assalamo Alaikum

As you proved very nicely that astronomically 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal 11 AH can occur on Monday
as well as can you prove that on the year of the birth of our Holy prophet Muhammad Sallallahon
Alaihi wasallam i.e. on “April 571”, 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal can occur on Monday. Visibility curves
for “April 571” are attached.

Wassalam

Muhammad Sultan Alam

Head of Research Committee of Astronomy Department of Jamia’-tur-Rasheed

Ahsanabad, Karachi.Pakistan

http://www.esnips. com/user/ moonsighting

http://www.kulyatus hariah.edu. pk/jrks/jsp/

Cell # 00923332213520
………………………………….

Friday, February 20, 2009 3:45 PM

From: "Qamar Uddin" <quddin@uk2.net>

Dear All,

Assalamualaikum Wa-Rahmatullahi Wa-barakatuh.

If you accept that New Moon was on Friday 10/4/571 20:56 UT, then the Hilal would
have been sighted on Saturday 11/4/571 and hence 1 Rabi-ul-Awwal was on Sunday
12/4/571. Therefore 12 Rabi-ul-Awwal cannot be on a Monday. According to Maulana
Samiruddin Qasmi (Manchester, UK), Muslim historians do not agree on this date to be
either a Monday or 12th - but just a tradition for celebrations of Mawlid-un-Nabi (see
details below). Please correct me if you think I am wrong.

Wassalam,

Qamar Uddin

Islamic Crescent Observation for UK: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ICOUK/

~ They (the people) condemn what they do not understand [Latin Proverb] ~
----

New Moon: Friday 10 April 571 20:56 UT

Day April Rabi-I

-----+------ -+------
Sat 11 -
Sun 12 1
Mon 13 2
Tue 14 3
Wed 15 4
Thu 16 5
Fri 17 6
Sat 18 7
Sun 19 8
Mon 20 9
Tue 21 10
Wed 22 11
Thu 23 12

Some Muslims celebrate the birthday of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) in this
month (Mawlid-un-Nabi) . There are no authentic evidences from the Seerah or the Sahabah
(companions) of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) for doing this
practice. Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said not to
unduly praise him like the Christians exaggerated over Isa (alayhis salam), son of Mariam
(Bukhari). However, if it is unavoidable, it should be done without fixing the same date in all
occasions (as practised by the Christians).

………………………………………………….

Friday, February 20, 2009 5:59 PM

From: "Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>

Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah,

You cannot relate any Gregorian date with Islamic dates before Hijri calendar began. Because
there was the practice of Nasi; in Makkah and Medinah in those times, and no one know which
month was added when. Rabi-al-Awwal of that time may not be the Rabi-al-Awwal without Nasi'.
Khalid Shaukat

………………………………

Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:30 AM

From:"sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear brother Khalid Shaukat & Qamar
Wa alaikumussalam
Actually we prefer 8th Rabee-ul-Awwal as the date of birth of our Holy prophet
Sallallahon Alaihi wasallam. Deatail is underbelow and also attached in English and Urdu for
comments of experts.
This time my question is that 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal can occur on Monday or not? You say
not and brother Khalid shaukat says that we cant say anything due to Nasi’. Well, now I need the
opinions of other experts.
Wassalam
Sultan
Date of birth of the greatest benefactor of humanity, Rasool-e-Akram, Ahmad-e-
Mujtaba, Muhammad Mustafa sallallahu alaihe wasallam.

Honorable Ulama-e-Kiram and Astronomers,

As-Salaamu ‘Alaikum!

I have written an article on the date of birth of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam. I
would appreciate your expert opinion on it.
Sultan
10the Rabi-ul-Awwal 1429 A.H.

Question: Different people have quoted different dates as the date of birth of Rasoolullah
sallallahu alaihe wasallam. According to your research whose opinion is more to be trusted than
the others? Please let me know.

Answer: About the birth of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam, there is a consensus
of opinion that he was born on Monday and in the month of Rabi-ul-Awwal. What was the date
on that day? Although Allama Mughaltai has given preference to 2nd Rabi-ul-Awwal but Hazrat
Abdullah bin Abbas and Jubair bin Mut’im Radhiyallaho A’nhum have been quoted as saying
that it was 8th Rabi-ul-Awwal. A majority of muhadditheen and historians believe in the
legitimacy of the latter view.
 According to absolute data such as the birth of the moon, sunset and moonset, it becomes
certain that in the year Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam was born, Monday could have
fallen on the 2nd, 8th, and 9th of Rabi-ul-Awwal. However, 12th Rabi-ul-Awwal simply could not
have been a Monday, Details are given below:
Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam left this world on Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 AH at the
age of 63. Thus if we travel 63 years backwards from Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 AH we find that the
month of Rabi-ul-Awwal will coincide with April 571 A.D
(A record of the time of birth of the moon in the month of Rabi-ul-Awwal every year, for 63
years, is given at the end).
On Fri. 10th April 571 A.D. at 10:45 a.m. (Saudi Standard Time) the moon was born. In
Makkah Mukarramah, on the same day i.e. on Fri at 6:32 p.m. (sunset) the crescent was only 8
hrs. 24 min. old and it had set only 12 min. after the sun. According to the ancient and modern
criteria of the possibility of sighting the moon, this crescent could not have been seen in any part
of the world, let alone in Saudi Arabia. Had it been discovered in North America there would still
have been very little chances of its being sighted.
On Sat. 11th April 571 A.D. the crescent’s conditions were so excellent in the evening
that it was capable of being easily sighted in a major part of the inhabited world. Thus if it had
been sighted by the inhabitants of Makkah on that night, the next day i.e. Sunday would have
been 1st Rabi-ul-Awwal and Monday would have been the 2nd. This would prove Allama
Mughaltai’s (Rahimahullah) research to have been correct.
However ‘capable of being seen’ does not mean that it was ‘definitely’ seen. As, for
example, in this month i.e. Rabi-ul-Awwal 1429 A.H. what happened was that the crescent,
according to numerous criteria, was capable of being easily sighted on Saturday 8th March 2008
in Pakistan. Yet no news of its being sighted in any part of the country was received. Thus
Sunday was declared 30th Safar, and Monday the 1st of Rabi-ul-Awwal. It is therefore entirely
possible that the crescent (of the month Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam was born in)
though capable of being sighted on Saturday night was not actually seen at all. Thus 1st Rabi-ul-
Awwal would have fallen on Monday and 8th Rabi-ul-Awwal on next Monday and this is the date
cited by Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas, Jubair bin Mut’im radhiyallahu a'nhum and declared
legitimate by a majority of muhadditheen and historians.
Wallaho Aa’lam
Muhammad Sultan Alam

Head of Research Committee of Astronomy Department of Jamia’-tur-Rasheed

Ahsanabad, Karachi.Pakistan

http://www.esnips.com/user/moonsighting

http://www.kulyatushariah.edu.pk/jrks/jsp/

Cell # 00923332213520
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…………………………………………………………..

Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:04 PM

From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br Sultan Alam,

Salaam,

Greetings; I have always thought and will think of you, as a curious,

hard-working and very precise in doing research, as a result of your
earlier correspondence.

In the meantime, you have ignored a few earlier discussions, in regards

to the onset of the Islamic Lunar Calendar and still you are using a sole
source for generating visibility curves, which had a few discrepancies, as
brought up in the following previous email, as an example, you may kindly
search for other chain emails, in this connection:

--- On Sun, 11/9/08, Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie <mashalah@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie <mashalah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [moon_sighting] Re: Subject: SHEIKH AL-OBAIKAN COMMENTS FROM
SAUDI SHURA COUNCIL - 2005
To: moon_sighting@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "tsofa" <tsofa@mac.com>, "Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>, "bdyallop.
freeserve. co. uk" <bernard@bdyallop.freeserve.co.uk>, "Omar Afzal"
<omarafzal1@yahoo.com>, "M. Shahid Qureshi" <shahidq@yahoo.com>, "Saleh Al-saab"
<salsaab@kacst.edu.sa>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 12:46 AM

Br Mutoha / Br Sultan Alam / Dear All,

Salaam,

Greetings; I hope you might have gone through these chain of emails and
helping me, the soonest, on the following subject; with the aid of the soft
wares available to you, preparing the where about new moons diagrams
on Wednesday, July 14, 622 C.E. and Thursday, July 15, 622 C.E., two days
before the onset of the lunar Hijra calendar which began on Muharram 1, 1
A.H., corresponding to Friday, July 16, 622 C.E. in the Western solar
calendar commonly in use by many nations of the world.

However, based on the enclosed visibility curves, generated from

Accurate Times / ICOP, the onset of the said calendar has been assumed
one day earlier, on Thursday, July 15, 622 C.E., based on the assumed
expanded criteria of the visibility, anywhere on the planet earth, which
could not be acceptable, according to the naked eye visibility, then in
practice, in Mecca.

The requested diagrams will help scholars to abandon various sighting

methods like aided eye, satellite, CCD, etc., keeping the chronology
unchanged through history. Otherwise, with the development of science
and technology, one has to shift the dates, and when dating back for each
new breakthrough, it will not be ending up to the same beginning date of
the Islamic Lunar Hijra Calendar, on Friday, July 16, 622 C.E.!

Best regards,

Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie

I second the comment of Br Khalid, since I had gone through a booklet,

published in 1977, in India, long ago and unfortunately I have lost it. The
booklet was a result of a Thesis, by Dr. Hashim Amir Ali, Hyderabad, and
probably published by Khuda Bakhsh O.P. Library, perhaps in 1977 and
entitled "Upstream Downstream Reconstruction of Islamic Chronology".

As a must for any research, one has to carry out a thorough bibliography,
so that you my kindly find this source and make a pdf-scan copy out of it
for the reference of others and yourself, as far as your recent query is
concerned, and also do not rely only on a singe source for generating the
visibility curves, until you get sure there are unique results obtained
therefrom.

Best regards,

Mashallah

…………………………………….

Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:29 AM

From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Mak-11-4-571.gif (22KB), Yal-BT.gif (26KB)

Dear Br Mashaallah

Salaam

1. Thanks for appreciating.

2. I don’t rely on one curve. Result of others like moonc60 is also same, see attachment.

3. I shall try to get a copy of your mentioned article.

4. Once again I say that onset issue should be discussed but separately. Start it if you are
interested but separately not with this recent running issue.

Sultan

See curves underbelow

Sunday, February 22, 2009 12:12 PM
From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br Sultan Alam,

Salaam,

Greetings; thanks for your fast feedback. I believe both

issues are interconnected, as far as chronology orders are
concerned. If you were getting the same curves from all your
sources and they absolutely compromise with each other,
thus one should end up with the same starting point in all
your sources too.

Best regards,

Mashallah

………………………………

Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:05 PM

From:"Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear All,
Salaam
Haikal has quoted so many confusing dates and years
that it is almost impossible to revoncile. The majority
agrees on month od Rabi I, and the 3rd month of the lunar
year. The most commonly quoted date is that of Ibn Ishaq:
12 Rabi I
Ibn Hisham's date is also12 Rabi I (Monday) of Aam al-Feel.

Perceval prefers August 570 C.E

I hope you are aware that according to Dr. Hamidullah

the date of birth was:
June 17, 569 (MONDAY)

Ishaq al-Nabi (Nuqush, Rasul #2 p. 470) states it as:

Do Shanbeh, 12 Rabi I, year 53 Before Hijrah

Qadi Sulaiman Mansurpuri calculated (v.2, p.387)

9 Rabi I Year 1 'Aam al-Feel (Do Shanbeh)
April 15, 571
Last year I came accross a valuable book during my visit
to India by a an expert in Hijri Tawqeet. Unfortunately,
I could not get a copy of the book. It had very elngthy
discussion on the date, and evaluated both the Early Muslim
historians and the Orientalists.

Omar Afzal
www.islamicmoon.com

……………………………………

Monday, February 23, 2009 8:33 AM

From:"sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>

Dear Brother Omar & Mashaallah

Wa alaikumussalam

You both mean that you cant prefer any day or date, Ok fine.

Wassalam

Sultan

…………………….

Monday, February 23, 2009 12:02 PM

From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>

Assalamo Alaikum
JFYI
Deoband Urdu Fatwa in favour of 8th Rabee-ul-awwal

Translation is as follows:

Q. What is the correct date of birth of Nabiyye Akram Sallallaho Alaihe wasallam? What
should we do on that day? Is he conscious of our acts?
A. There are different words about the date of blessed birth. Famous is 12 Rabee-ul-
Awwal but according to the majority of Muhadditheen and historians, the preferable
word is it that Hudhoor Sallallaho Alaihe wasallam was born on 8th Rabee-ul-Awwal.

Following is original Urdu Fatwa

Fatwa ID: 4526 - Darul Ifta http://darulifta-deoband.com/urdu/viewfatwa_u.jsp?ID=4526

Darul Ifta Darul Uloom Urdu Magazine Arabic Magazine News

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India Question: 4526


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06 Jul, 2008 Answer: 4526

‫ د‬/868=822 :/&.-

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‫ دارا م دﯾ‬،‫داراء‬

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1 of 1 2/23/2009 11:35 PM
Monday, February 23, 2009 11:57 AM
From:"Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>
To: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah,
Jazakallahu Khairan,
I have added it on my web site.
See http://moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html#Dates
Question No. 13.4
Khalid Shaukat

……………………..
Monday, February 23, 2009 4:27 PM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear Br. Sultan Alam Sahib,
Salaam
I don't understand your comment:
you cant prefer any day or date, Ok fine.

I sent you the dates of the birth of Prophet (SAW) by several

other scholars.

My preferred date (1971:My book in English) was 8 Rabi I.

In its revised new edition (to come out by the end of this year)
I am leaning to the date calculated by Late Dr. Hamidullah after
reading his arguments, and his book on the life of the Prophet (SAW).

I met him in 1990 (though he could hardly hear) and his grand
niece had to translate his responses for me. Earlier, I met him
in Paris, France in August 1973 on my way to the USA.

Omar
www.islamicmoon.com
…………………..
Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:21 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Dr Omar
Wa alaikumussalam
Thanks for clarification that you also prefer 8th Rabee-ul-Awwal.
Sultan
Note:2nd part of the research emailing i.e. 12 Rabee-ul-awwal of
the year of death of our prophet sallallaho Alaehi wasallam can
occur on Monday or not? It is available in another paper.
The End