The Attorney-General's ofce has been a bit busy this morning, so to assist
here is a copy of the AG's interview on Sky yesterday afternoon eplaining
what metadata is! "ootage of the interview is available here! E&OE Transcript Sky News PM Agenda Interview with David Speers and George Brandis ednesday! " A#g#st $%&' DA(ID SPEE)S* #ell, as we have $ust been discussing there's been some concern and some confusion about elements of the new anti-terror laws the Government has proposed $ust yesterday! %oining me now is the Attorney- General George &randis, welcome to the program! GEO)GE B)ANDIS* 'i (avid! SPEE)S* )et's start with this plan for mandatory retention of metadata! #hat is metadata in your view* B)ANDIS* #ell metadata is, the best metaphor + can give you is take, imagine a letter, right, the metadata is the name and address on the envelope, not the content of the letter, so , SPEE)S* #hat if +'m online though* B)ANDIS* #ell, + was going to give you the eample of mobile phone communication which is the most commonly used device by the security agencies! They can't access the content of calls, the content of course isn't retained, but the metadata is - the phone number from which the call is initiated, the phone number to which the call is made, the identity of the owners of those numbers, the location from which the call is made and the location of the recipient of the call! SPEE)S* The time, the duration! B)ANDIS* The time, the duration! That's metadata! SPEE)S* +t gets more complicated when you talk about online, internet use! B)ANDIS* +t does a little, but essentially it's the same principle! +t's not content, it-s the details of the call! #hat basically has until now been maintained by the telcos for billing purposes, so we are not really asking the telcos to do anything other than they already do, but the difculty here, + think +'ve eplained it!!! SPEE)S* #ell do they all do this* B)ANDIS* #ell this is the point! SPEE)S* + mean does (odo for eample, do they hold this stu.* B)ANDIS* + don-t know, + don-t want to talk about particular companies, but the general industry standard or practice has been that they-ve maintained this data for billing purposes because people used to be billed on a call by call basis, for eample, in the case of phone calls, but now of course the phone companies sell blocks of time, and they bill according to blocks of time, so it hasn-t - so increasingly it won't be necessary for the companies for their own purposes to keep these as business records! SPEE)S* /kay, the 0rime 1inister said today it's not what you are doing on the internet it's the sites you're visiting! So will it be the sites you are visiting* B)ANDIS* +t wouldn't etend for eample to web sur2ng, so what people are viewing on the internet is not going to be caught! SPEE)S* +t-s not the sites you're visiting* B)ANDIS* #ell, what people are viewing on the internet when they web surf is not going to be caught! #hat will be caught is the web address they communicate to! SPEE)S* /kay, so it's only - sorry, the web address, if + go to an internet site, that will be recorded and available* B)ANDIS* The web address is part of the metadata! SPEE)S* The website! B)ANDIS* The web address! The electronic address of the website! SPEE)S* /kay but if + go to the Sky 3ews website, the Australian website, a more 4uestionable website, is that what we are talking about here* B)ANDIS* #ell, 5stammering6 the, what you're viewing on the internet is not what we-re interested in and that not what we regard as , SPEE)S* 7ou'll be able to see whether +'ve been to that website, or that website or that website* B)ANDIS* #hat we-ll be able, what the security agencies want to know, to be retained is the electronic address of the website that the web user is using! SPEE)S* +t does tell you the website! B)ANDIS* +t tells you will the address of the website! SPEE)S* That's the website, isn't it! +t tells you what website you've been to! B)ANDIS* #ell when you visit a website people brows from one thing to the net! That browsing history won8t be retained or there won't be any capacity to access that! SPEE)S* 9cuse my confusion here, but if you are retaining the web address, you are retaining the website, aren-t you* B)ANDIS* #ell, every website has an electronic address, right* SPEE)S* 7ep and that's recorded! B)ANDIS* #hen a connection is made between a one commuter terminal and a web address that fact and the time of the connection and the duration of the connection is what we mean by metadata in that contet! SPEE)S* &ut that is telling you where +-ve been on the web* B)ANDIS* +t records what web - what electronic web address has been accessed! SPEE)S* + don't see the di.erence between that and the website , B)ANDIS* #hen you go to a website commonly you will go from one web page to another, from one link to another and another within that website! That's not what we are interested in! SPEE)S* The overarching, if + go to the Sky 3ews website it will tell that but not necessarily the links within that that + go to! B)ANDIS* 7es! SPEE)S* /kay, what about social media* B)ANDIS* That's been developed - please understand, (avid, what is being decided is an in principle decision, and the etent to which social media will be involved in this is something is under discussion at the moment! SPEE)S* #hat is your position on this* #ould you like to see , B)ANDIS* + don't want to pre-empt the discussions, + think we are going down, as it were, the wrong path here, because what the agencies are - the security agencies are in fact primarily interested in at the moment is mobile phone trafc! SPEE)S* The what if + had a Skype conversation with someone, a Google :hat and a "ace Time conversation! B)ANDIS* Those are the things we are in discussion with the SPEE)S* 7ou'd like to be able to see who +'m talking to, wouldn't you* B)ANDIS* 3ot necessarily , SPEE)S* That's the same as a phone call! B)ANDIS* #e want to maintain the sharp distinction between metadata and content! "or reasons for eample you adverted to in our previous discussion, sometimes that distinction is blurred and that's why , SPEE)S* That's a problem, though* B)ANDIS* That's why we are developing protocols to try and ensure that the integrity of that distinction is maintained! SPEE)S* +f terrorists are talking on Skype that may not be caught* B)ANDIS* #e want it to be caught, but in terms of data retention, + mean, not all Skype conversations are going to correspond to the description of metadata! SPEE)S* Alright, let me ask you this, is the information that is kept going to be used $ust for investigating terrorism or for other criminal acts* B)ANDIS* /ur primary focus is terrorism, but the fact is that access to metadata is an etremely useful criminal investigative tool! + understand for eample that when %ill 1eagher was murdered in ;ictoria, a little while ago it was access to metadata that assisted ;ictoria police to track down the killer , SPEE)S* #ith a warrant! B)ANDIS* #ith a warrant! + have discussed this matter with my counterpart of the <nited =ingdom recently who tells me that this is also used to track down paedophile )inks! SPEE)S* #hat about downloading illegal content* #ould ti be sued for that* B)ANDIS* #e're not interested in that! SPEE)S* There is some point , B)ANDIS* This is at its heart a counterterrorism measure! SPEE)S* + have to ask you 2nally about the >acial (iscrimination Act changes, you were, even the night before the cabinet meeting here on Sky 3ews eplaining why ?@ : needed to go! 3et day Tony Abbott has announced they are being kept! #ere you rolled on this* B)ANDIS* #ell, you know what this business is like (avid, you win a few, you lose a few! At the end of the day as the 0rime 1inister himself said, he made a leader's call! /ne of the observations that a number of commentators have been making about our government they have said well your agenda is too cluttered, you are 2ghting on too many fronts! /ur biggest task at the moment is to get the budget under control! That means getting the budget through the Senate! There are other important agenda items as well! SPEE)S* +s this gone for good* B)ANDIS* + can understand the 0rime 1inister's view, and + accept the 0rime 1inister's view, that the Government needs to focus on a smaller number of core priorities and that was the reason for his decision! SPEE)S* #e will have to leave it there! Attorney-General George &randis, thanks for $oining us this afternoon! B)ANDIS* Thanks (avid! ENDS
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