Transcription of Episode 80 Beyond Bitcoin Uncut!

Participants:
Adam B. Levine (ABL) Host
Charles Hoskinson (CH) Ethereum.org
avid !ohnston (!) "astercoin #oundation
aniel Larimer ($) $nvictus $nnovations
!ason %ing (!%) &ean's (utpost
)oda* is #e+ruar* ,
st
-.,/. 0elcome to episode 1. o2 Let3s )alk Bitcoin4 a t5ice
5eekl* sho5 a+out the ideas4 people and pro6ects +uilding the digital econom*
and the 2uture o2 mone*. 7isit us at letstalk+itcoin.com 2or our dail* guest +log4
all our past episodes and o2 course tipping addresses8
"* name is Adam B. Levine and toda* 5e3re visiting the 2uture4 o2 5ell4
ever*thing. 0e3ve talked +e2ore on L)B a+out "etacoins and 2or the last several
months $ have immersed m*sel2 in them. )here is reall* no 9uestion in m* mind4
these tools to create decentrali:ed consensus +et5een people a+out an*thing
represents the ne;t great leap 2or5ard and 5hatever the release o2 Bitcoin
started.
)he a2ternoon +e2ore "iami3s recent <orth American Bitcoin con2erence4 $
organised a private panel discussion. Charles Hoskinson representing the
Ethereum pro6ect4 avid !ohnston o2 the "astercoin #oundation and aniel
Larimer o2 $nvictus $nnovations representing the Bitshares pro6ect. !ason %ing4
2ounder o2 &ean3s (utpost4 led the conversation as moderator over the course o2
a+out an hour and a hal2. &tarting 2rom the +asics o2 each pro6ect4 moving
through the potential4 the 2undraising4 the ecos*stem and eventuall* the 2uture
the* each hope to create. $ think !ason %ing said it +est4 =0e3re on the cusp o2
something here4 *ou3re going to look +ack at these conversations o2 this
5eekend4 >?,. *ears 2rom no5 and *ou3re going to +e like4 5o5 5e 5ere right
there. @ight +e2ore ever*thing 5ent cra:*A.
)hanks to Bustavo "atamoros o2 su+tropics.org 2or providing the space and the
audio 2eed 2or the panel and &teve "alagodi o2 &pectacular &ound 2or the
recording. $3m not going to lie4 this is advanced stuC4 so hold onto *our +utts
+ecause here 5e go8
!ason %ing: 0elcome to a ver* special edition o2 Let3s )alk Bitcoin4 m* name is
!ason %ing and 5e3re here in "iami 6ust +e2ore the <orth American Bitcoin
con2erence. 0hat 5e3ve got in stored this evening is4 hope2ull*4 a ver* spirited
discussion on 5hat $'m going to call A; (istri+uted Autonomous 5hatever it
could +e distri+uted autonomous applications4 distri+uted autonomous
corporations4 distri+uted autonomous Dll?in?the?+lank). 0e happened to +e 6oined
+* three people 5ho are doing the most e;citing things in this space4 $3m ver*
privileged to meet *ou and intervie5 *ou gu*s and that 5e get to talk to *ou.
0e're 6ust going to go do5n the line 6ust name *our name and compan* *our
compan* i2 *ou 5ill4 and 5e'll start...
aniel Larimer: "* names aniel Larimer4 $3m CE( o2 $nvictus $nnovations.
avid !ohnston: avid !ohnston4 $ serve o2 the e;ecutive director 2or the
BitAngels and $ sit on the +oard o2 the "astercoin #oundations.
Charles Hoskinson: $3m Charles Hoskinson4 $3m the director o2 the Bitcoin
education pro6ect and a core developer on the Ethereum pro6ect.
!%: Alright4 these are our 5onder2ul guest speakers tonight. 0hat $3m going to do
is go do5n the line and give each o2 *ou three minutes to descri+e to me 5hat
*our pro6ect is 5hat *ou think the core value proposition is. (nce ever*+od*
has had a chance to introduce themselves 5e3re then going to Ehave more in?
depth discussionsF a+out ACs as a 5hole4 okG
L: )he pro6ect $3m 5orking on is called Bit&hares. Bit&hares is a ver* +road
concept4 instead o2 looking at a Blockchain as a currenc*4 5e look at it as shares
in a decentrali:ed autonomous compan* and that changes ever*thing a+out ho5
*ou design and +uild these decentrali:ed s*stems. Like all companies *ou need
to 2ocus on doing t5o things ma;imi:ing revenue and minimi:ing e;penses
and to that e;tend ever*thing 5e3re doing is eliminating mining 2rom the
e9uation to minimi:e e;penses. )he transaction 2ees are the revenue o2 our
s*stem so 5e 5ant to ma;imi:e the incentive 2or there to +e transactions and
the value provided +* e;ecuting transactions in our decentrali:ed +usinesses.
(ur Hag ship +usiness is 5hat 5e3re calling Bit&haresI4 it3s a +ank and e;change.
$t allo5s *ou to earn >J or more on an*thing4 5hether it3s gold4 silver4 Bitcoin4
mastercoin or ether. )hat is in a nut?shell 5hat 5e3re doing and 5e3re ver*
e;cited in the potential 2or using the Bit&hare concept in ever* industr* 2rom
smart propert*4 +anking4 insurance4 gam+ling4 voting. Kou name it4 there are all
kinds o2 applications that can +e developed using that model.
!: )he "aster protocol is +asicall* a protocol +uilt on top o2 Bitcoin4 $ think !@
used a reall* good analog* in original paper a+out thinking o2 Bitcoin as )CPL$P
and thinking o2 "aster Protocol as H))P. "eaning that Bitcoin gives us a lot o2
things automaticall*4 it gives us a time stamping service4 it gives us a universal
token s*stem. $t gives us this +ack?end that solves a lot o2 these +asic cr*pto?
graphic pro+lems and like an 5as mentioning4 i2 *ou3ve got an application
5here *ou don3t necessaril* need mining po5er4 such as smart propert* or *ou
5ant to issue digital tokens to keep track o2 an asset then *ou don3t need *our
o5n Blockchain4 +ut *ou need these +ack?end services.
)he goal 5ith the "aster Protocol is to create these 2eatures to allo5 people to
easil* do this on top o2 Bitcoin. )he Drst couple o2 2eatures that are reall*
important to emphasise areM Drstl*4 the distri+uted e;change that lets *ou trade
"astercoin 2or Bitcoin4 2or an* user generated token that people have created on
top. )he thing $ 5ould emphasise is that this is a +ig de+ate in the communit*4
5hat is the right approachG &hould 5e +uild this on top o2 BitcoinG &hould 5e
+uild something else as a BlockchainG
)he approach o2 the "aster Protocol is to +uild on top o2 Bitcoin and this is reall*
possi+le no5 thanks to a recent update o2 the Bitcoin core client4 descri+ed +*
Bavin in his updateN>4 it talks a+out prova+l* pruna+le outputs. 0ithout getting
into the tech4 Ethe updateF makes it easier 2or *ou to encode this meta?data on
top o2 the Bitcoin ledger4 that3s the approach o2 the "aster Protocol.
CH: )o understand 5hat 5e3re doing 5ith the Ethereum pro6ect it3s reall* use2ul
to think a+out the histor* o2 Bitcoin and 5here 5e started. 0hen 5e started
there 5ere three things *ou could do and &atoshi <akamoto decided to test t5o
o2 them at the same time +ecause he thought there 5as a 5onder2ul marriage
there. )he Drst thing he thought a+out 5as a decentrali:ed data+ase4 the idea o2
putting something into a ledger that is immuta+le4 *ou can3t take out4 it
completel* transparent and something that ever*+od* has a cop* o2. &econd he
created a transaction s*stem that allo5s people to move value +et5een parties
5ithout an* third?part* interaction4 that3s a reall* +ig piece o2 stuC to +ite oC
+ecause at the time it had no economic value4 there 5as a lot o2 code that had to
+e 5ritten and the concepts 5ere completel* untested.
)here 5as a third thing that &atoshi could have done4 5hich 5as having a ro+ust
scripting s*stem. )he general notion o2 instead o2 6ust sending transactions *ou
can send an*thing *ou 5ant such as contracts or smart propert*. )hat3s a
5onder2ul thing to propose +ut there is some securit* implications +ecause it
re9uires )uring completeness in the language4 there is also implications o2 things
like Blockchain +loating etc. &o &atoshi took a step +ack and said4 =$3m going to
2ocus on the core e;periment4 $ don3t 5ant to spoil it and at some point 5e3ll
revisit this topic a2ter 5e3ve +uilt a si:ea+le ecos*stem that has economic value.
$t3s +een >*ears there has +een a tremendous amount o2 innovation4 the market
cap at O,. Billion. )here is a lot o2 companies across the 5orld and there are
5onder2ul entrepreneurs in this space 5ho are doing great things. &o no5 people
E5ant toF go +ack to that4 let3s go ahead and Dnd a 5a* to put )uring
completeness +ack into the s*stem. )here are a 2e5 5a*s that *ou can do that4
one 5a* is to la* it on top o2 Bitcoin4 5hich 5ould re9uire *ou to change Bitcoin
and it3s a time consuming process and reall* respect the amount o2 eCort that
"astercoin has put in4 !@ and these other gu*s have done some a+solutel*
ama:ing 5ork. Another option is to take the Bit&hares approach4 create *our o5n
Blockchain4 *our o5n paradigm. But 5hat 5e see in the ecos*stem is a lot o2
isolation4 a lot o2 2ragmentation and a lot o2 cost 2or innovation4 5henever *ou
5ant to do something it costs hal2 a million dollars4 *ou have to get a team
together and it takes months i2 not *ears to develop as there is a lot o2 testing.
)hose are usuall* the s*mptoms o2 a disease4 and the disease is that *ou don3t
have a proper 2oundation to go ahead and do this. )he general concept4 the
notion o2 Ethereum is to thro5 a5a* all the 2eatures4 5e don3t 5ant to release
an*thing 5ith 2eatures4 +ut rather let3s have a +eauti2ul 2oundation that has a
)uring complete scripting language4 has the idea o2 the contract a 2undamental
computational unit. )hen give that to people like *ou 5ould give a programming
language to some+od* and let3s use Ethereum to ena+le people like "astercoin4
colourcoin etc to +uild an*thing that the* 5ant.
)he second part o2 that pro6ect is kind o2 a social contract to have a ver* strong
user e;perience. Kou can3t 6ust go ahead and +uild some protocol that has
elegant and +eauti2ul code4 Bavin has +een 5riting ama:ing code +ack there. Kou
have to actuall* have a 2oundation that ever*da* people can use and ever*da*
people can develop 2or 6ust like the Android e;perience. )he second part o2 the
pro6ect is to +uild a +ase 2oundation so that 5hen 5e3ve launched 2or mining it3s
like a large catalog that has one?click installation 2or ever*thing. (ne?click
installation 2or Bit"essage4 one?click installation 2or (pen )ransactions 5ho is a
partner o2 ours4 one?click installation 2or @ipple4 +asicall* an*thing *ou 5ant even
a 5allet is one?click installation.
$2 *ou 5ant to +uild apps 2or this catalog4 to have the same application
development e;perience that people have 5ith i(& or 5ith Android. )hese t5o
things together4 this +eauti2ul 2oundation that is 2eatureless and )uring complete
5hich removes the isolation4 2ragmentation and reduces the cost o2 innovation as
5ell as a reall* nice user e;perience. $ think it3s going to give us a proper
direction 2or a +ase 2oundation 2or the Cr*pto?Currenc* space.
!%: E(ka*4 thank *ou gu*s ver* much 2or descri+ing *our pro6ects. $n all three o2
*our descriptionsF $ think 5e kind o2 5ent high level on 5hat *ou gu*s are
speaking o2. 0h* don3t 5e pretend in this audience that *ou need to e;plain
5hat the value proposition is o2 A3s in general to people 5ho have no idea 5hat
*ou3re talking a+out. Andreas Antonopoulos has this great thing4 *ou gu*s
mentioned the )CPL$PLH))P thing4 $ think that3s a great analog* +ut he said that
5ith Bitcoin technolog* currenc* is the Drst app. $t3s ever*thing that3s coming
a2ter that4 that is going to +e the game changers 2or ever*thing and *ou gu*s are
5orking in that space. Let3s talk generall* a+out A3s as a 5hole and $ 5ould like
to hear *our thoughts a+out 5hat the ne;t killer apps are that are coming out 2or
this and 5h* *ou think there is value to them in the s*stem.
L: $3ll start4 generall* speaking it3s a +etter idea to look at 5hat3s +een done in
societ* and an ecos*stem Drst and sa* 5hat can 5e do to improve 5hat is made
instead o2 5hat3s the ne;t revolutionar* 2eature. $t3s hard to kno5 ahead o2 time
to kno5 5hat3s important4 $ kno5 not ver* man* people 5ould have predicted
)5itter. 0hat3s +een done is 5e have organisations like 0ikiLeaks4 0ikipedia4
$CA<< that serve a pu+lic utilit* st*le 2ormat4 +ut the*3re constrained +*
6urisdiction. 0here this technolog* is going4 all o2 our approaches in some 5a*
can ena+le an idea o2 taking these organisations and removing them 2rom
5hatever 6urisdiction the* live in and upli2ting them into the cloud4 into the
internet and taking the rules that constrain them and put the rules into
algorithms instead o2 people.
!%: (k4 2ocus that do5n 2or me. Bive me an e;ample o2 one use?case 2or that4
5hich 5ould have a 5onder2ul eCect on the 5orld.
L: 0ikiLeaks is a great e;ample4 i2 *ou could upli2t and put it into the cloud then
*ou 2unctionall* can3t shut it do5n. All the services4 utilit*4 the Dnancials4 the*3re
all transparent4 the* live in a Blockchain and there is no central point o2 2ailure.
(ther things4 is that *ou pro+a+l* don3t 5ant to have geographic +ias like $CA<<.
$t3s +ased in America and America has tremendous inHuence over the
management and operations o2 $CA<<. Kou could upli2t $CA<<4 put it into the
cloud and deDne the rules4 parameters4 and the voting s*stem in a 2ree and 2air
5a* that can3t +e coerced retro?activel*.
)hose are tangi+le e;amples 2or non?proDt st*le organisations +ut there is also
great e;amples4 5e 5ere 6ust talking a+out the gu* 2rom Cu+a 5ho runs the
Bitcoin "iami meet up. His parents 5ere 2rom Cu+a and he lived there 2or a
5hile4 Cu+a has this terri+le situation 5here most commerce is controlled +* the
government4 6ust like China. )here is a lot o2 gre* area +usinesses +ecause i2 *ou
actuall* 5ant to do +usiness *ou have to +e an insider. Kou have t5o options
right no5 i2 *ou3re an entrepreneur in a developing nation4 the Drst option is to
+e cos* 5ith a politician and get the +ri+es done. (r the other option is to go oC
the +ooks4 5hich is no good 2or an*+od*4 so 5hen *ou have the idea o2 a
decentrali:ed autonomous organisation4 *ou no5 have a third option. (nce all o2
the tools and user e;perience is correct *ou could 9uickl* create an organisation
that outsources the trust o2 the operation o2 the +usiness and makes that
+usiness transparent4 +ut it removes it out o2 the 6urisdiction o2 the countr*
that3s not 2avoura+le.
$ think this is going to +e a god?send 2or a lot o2 developing nations.
!: &ure4 $ 5ould deDnitel* echo that. $ think *ou3re right a+out 5hat Bitcoin
accomplished4 5hat Bitcoin accomplished 5as it created this open?source
program that couldn3t +e glo+all* censored. "eaning that *ou had enough copies
out there in the ecos*stem that people can adapt it to their particular
6urisdiction4 2or e;ample people +uilding an e;change in the P& could take a
diCerent approach than people +uilding an e;change in China etc.
)he core protocol 5ouldn3t +e shut?do5n +ecause it3s +een distri+uted. #or me4
the ne;t thing that $ 5ant is a distri+uted e;change4 5hich is the ver* Drst
2eature that $ see as the ne;t killer app +ecause this is alread* a pro+lem 5ith
the eco?s*stem. Bit2under has closed4 B)C) has closed4 all these diCerent central
approaches to =$ 5ant to +u* some tokens in this particular applicationA have
closed do5n +ecause ho5 do *ou do regulation glo+all*. $t3s reall* tough +ecause
ever*5here has diCerent rules4 that3s a pro+lem as long as *ou have a central
server.
<o5 imagine that *ou don3t have central server and it3s all P-P4 a person?to?
person e;change o2 these tokens. )hat3s partl* 5h* the "aster protocol started
2ocusing on that Drst4 is +ecause it3s +een a huge pro+lem 2or the communit*. $
think that3s 5h* a lot o2 people are e;citing a+out that particular killer app.
L: $3d like to talk a+out that particular killer app +ecause that3s our primar*
killer app in Bit&haresI4 $ mentioned earlier *ou could earn >J or more on
an*thing. $ 5ould like to step +ack and look at 5hat vie5ing a Blockchain and the
shares allocated in the Blockchain4 as a compan*4 allo5s *ou to do. 0e can
actuall* create ollars the same 5a* that *our +ank currentl* creates ollars4 it
lends them into e;istence on collateral. Kou can do that on a Blockchain4 5here
the Blockchain controls the collateral4 so 5henever *ou +orro5 mone* 2rom a
+ank *ou e;pect to pa* interest and 5henever *ou lend mone* to a +ank (have a
deposit in a +ank)4 *ou e;pect to receive interest. Psing a Blockchain 5e can
completel* cut out the middle?man 5hich allo5s *ou to receive a >J return on
*our dollars4 i2 *ou can lend dollars into e;istence *ou can lend gold4 silver4 oil4
an*thing4 Bitcoin or "astercoin can +e lent into e;istence on a Blockchain using
the e;act same +usiness model.
Pnlike a +ank4 5hich normall* lends on *our house4 this is lending on stock in the
+ank. $t 5ould +e like going to the Bank o2 America4 sa*ing $ 5ould like to +orro5
O,..4.... $ have O-..4... 5orth o2 *our stock. Kou 5ould get a loan.
!%: (ka*4 $3m alread* a little +it con2used on it. Let3s go into the ne;t part here4
5h* don3t *ou descri+e to me e;actl* ho5 Bit&hares is going to implement that
in a 5a* so 5e can all grasp the concept.
L: 0ith Bit&hares *ou 5ould use it 6ust like *ou 5ould a Bitcoin 5allet or online
+anking4 it3s the e;act same user e;perience. Kou sa* *ou 5ant to send dollars to
someone4 *ou send dollars to someone4 i2 *ou 5ant to send ounces o2 gold to
someone4 *ou can send the value o2 an ounce o2 gold to someone. )hese are not
de+ts that cannot +e de2aulted on +ecause the*3re +acked +* the Blockchain
5hich can do margin calls 6ust like a +ank 5ould. )he user e;perience o2 this is
like Bitcoin e;cept 5e3re com+ining it 5ith another product 5e have %e*hotee
5hich eliminates the need to use Bitcoin addresses4 it3s an identit* management
application 2or the Blockchain technolog* and has a glo+al consensus on 5ho
o5ns 5hat name.
#rom a +anking perspective it 5orks 6ust like a +ank4 5e can use the same
+usiness model to implement other t*pes o2 +usinesses. $2 *ou have a compan*4
a ver* traditional compan* that3s doing a lotter*4 it sells lotter* tickets4 puts the
mone* the pot4 dra5s a num+er ever* no5 and then and *ou have a 5inner. 7er*
traditional +usiness model4 it makes millions or +illions ever* single *ear4 *ou
can implement that on a Blockchain. )he characteristic o2 ever*thing that 5e3re
doing is that 5e vie5 the Blockchain as shares4 5e pa* dividends to the
shareholders so 5e tr* to ma;imi:e the value proposition to the shareholders o2
the Blockchain and 5e tr* to minimi:e the e;penses.
!%: (k4 this is the part $3m getting con2used 5ithM $n a +ank $ can go in and put
cash into m* +ank4 $ have handed over ph*sical control o2 m* cash and the* can
no5 make representations o2 that dollar and lend them out ho5ever the* 5ant
to. $n *our e;ample o2 gold or oil4 sa* $ have ,... +arrels o2 oil4 $ 5ant to
implement them in Bit&hares. Ho5 does that transaction take placeG
L: #irst o2 all4 the s*stem 5orks even i2 *ou don3t have a thousand +arrels o2 oil.
$t3s like i2 *ou 5ant to +et 5hether or not gold is going to go up and do5n relative
to Bitcoin. &o *ou +oth put ,..Bitcoins into a pot and 5hen the price moves one
direction or the other4 *ou eventuall* make or lose mone* proportional to the
price movement. Kou get the purchasing po5er o2 a +arrel o2 oil or an ounce o2
gold 5ithout actuall* depositing an ounce o2 gold4 +ut 5hat it allo5s *ou to do is
a s*stem like LocalBitcoins.
)he pro+lem 5ith LocalBitcoins is that *ou3re tr*ing to simultaneousl* match a
+id4 an ask and a location. 0e match all o2 the +ids and asks on the Blockchain
automaticall*4 so *ou have a +it asset 5ith BitP&. <o5 all *ou have to do is
match location4 *ou no longer have the huge spread that *ou have in the
centrali:ed e;changes4 so *ou could meet someone on craigslist and s5ap O,..
2or ,..BitP& and the price 5ill Huctuate around , dollar. $t3s a 5a* o2 hedging4
all o2 this can +e put on Blockchain complete 5ith other 2eatures that da* traders
like +uilding auctions and the 2ull trading environment can +e done on a
Blockchain.
(ther applications *ou can implement on a Blockchain 5ould +e auctions4 *ou
can put an end to domain name s9uatting +* auctioning oC the domains. 0hat3s
diCerent a+out our approach is that 5e vie5 all o2 the names as +elonging to the
shareholders and 5e 5ant to ma;imi:e the value that the* get 2or selling their
names. 0e don3t 5ant people to +u* a name and to then s9uat on it4 5e 5ant to
auction it oC 6ust in time. )hat3s another 5a* *ou can implement something on a
Blockchain 5here ever*one doesn3t 5ant to o5n a name4 the* 5ant to o5n all
the names. &o the names can +e allocated the most eQcient application.
)he core thing that $ 5ant ever*one to take a5a* 2rom this is that *ou have to
vie5 Blockchains and decentrali:ed applications 2rom a +usinessLeconomic
perspective. $2 *ou take the +illion dollars a *ear that Bitcoin is currentl*
spending to mine and secure the net5ork and *ou 5ere to appl* that to
development o2 decentrali:ed applications4 think o2 all the good things that could
happen. Bitcoin as a +usiness model is going onl* so long as a ne5 capital is
2unnelling into Bitcoin4 it3s +eing diluted at ,-J a *ear right no54 paid to ne5
miners. $n the 2uture ,..J o2 all revenue4 the transaction 2ees are +eing paid 2or
securit* +ut i2 *ou can turn the Bitcoin model into something that is proDta+le4
5here ,..J o2 the revenue goes to the shareholders as dividends *ou eliminate
the need to dilute the shareholders4 *ou increase the value proposition. $t3s a
sel2?sustaining s*stem.
(Intermission - advertisements)
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!%: Let me 6ump in here4 $ think it3s a good 6umping oC point 2or something that $
5ould like to talk a+out +ecause *ou3re talking a+out proDt4 revenue4
development e;penses. Kou gu*s are all 5orking on the ne;t?generation o2
Blockchain technologies4 the successor to Bitcoin in terms o2 2unctionalit* here.
L: $3d also sa* the augmenter.
!%: )he augmenter4 ok4 that 5orks 2or me. Kou gu*s are all doing 2undraising o2
some sort4 $ think 5e can all agree that &atoshi <akamoto didn3t have to do this
+ecause none o2 us kne5 that Blockchain technolog* 5as going to 5ork. &o he
had the lu;ur* o2 +eing laughed at 2or a 5hile and +eing a+le to mine on his o5n4
then it developed naturall*. 0e all can agree that Blockchains 5ork no54 5e at
least have this one killer app Bitcoin on it. $t3s m* understanding that *ou gu*s
all +elieve that *ou can3t pull value 2rom the pro6ects that *our release 6ust +*
releasing them openl*4 that *ou need to have some model up 2ront to 2undraise
2or the development o2 *our pro6ect and *ou gu*s all have diCerent 5a*s o2
2undraising. Let3s talk a+out 2undraising right no54 5e3ll start 5ith Charles4 5e3ll
talk a+out ho5 *ou gu*s plan on 2unding *our model.
CH: 0e looked at this 2or 9uite some time4 there are certainl* a lot o2 economic
models that can +e em+raced. )here is the lets start mining and tr* to ac9uire
some o2 it and sell it 5hen the market is high 2unding model4 5hich in practice
doesn3t 5ork terri+l* 5ell. )here is then the ,..J pre?mine model 5here *ou sell
out4 there is something to +e said a+out that model 2or +oot?strapping an
ecos*stem4 +ut not 2or long?term dura+ilit*.
0e took a step +ack and asked4 ho5 2undraising has +een done over the last >.
R. *ears in general. $2 *ou look at &ilicon 7alle*4 7enture Capital4 generall*
speaking *ou have some 2ounders that initiall* have a large amount o2 control o2
the compan*4 the ecos*stem. )he* then give a slice o2 that to the people that
initiall* invest and overtime the investors and the 2ounders divest. 0hat 5e did
5as sa*4 5e 5ant e9uita+ilit* in our mone*4 5e 5ant a large distri+ution o2 our
mone* and 5e don3t have a situation 5here one person o5ns ,. or ,>J o2 the
currenc* +ase 5hich has implications across the +oard.
&o 5e Drst 5ent ahead and em+raced a persistent linear inHation model4 5here
5e create a D;ed amount o2 coin per +lock indeDnitel* so over time *our inHation
rate decreases +ut *ou have a linear increase in suppl* so all o2 the sins o2 the
2undraiser disappears over a > ,.*ear period. #or the most part S>J o2 the
coins in distri+ution 5ere mined4 produced and the opportunit* to ac9uire coins
in *ear ,. or *ear ,> is the same as the opportunit* to ac9uire coins in *ear , or
-. 0e em+raced that4 5e3re also going to go ahead and do an $P( st*le
2undraising starting #e+ruar* ,
st
4 and it3s inspired +* "astercoin4 5hich $ think is
9uite good 5ith a couple o2 modiDcations. 0e3re going to run a t5o month
2undraiser and 5e have a hard?cap o2 T.4... Bitcoins4 so i2 5e raise that much
mone* 5e3ll stop.
(Laughs + inaudible)
CH: Bu*s to +e 2air it 5asn3t too long ago that 5e 5ere +u*ing pi::as 2or ,.4...
Bitcoins.
!: $n Bitcoin time4 that 5as a li2e?time ago though.
CH: 0ell +asicall* 5e have t5o options4 5indo5 A is R.?da*s 5ith a cap o2 T.4...
and 5e3ll have a 2ull prospectus read* to go #e+ruar* ,
st
5ith all terms and
conditions and ho5 the investments are going to 5ork. )he* should +e availa+le
2or li9uidit*4 meaning *ou can actuall* trade them and sell them 5hen the
Benesis +lock launches 5hich should +e UT or U/ depending ho5 long it takes to
vet our securit* model amongst other considerations.
)he important thing to take a5a* 2rom this is that the insiders4 the 2ounders o2
the organisation 5ill have R VJ o2 the currenc* +ase at *ear >. &econdl* 5e
have endo5ed an organisation that 5ill turn into a decentrali:ed autonomous
organisation 5ith enough reserves so that 5hen the Bitcoin suppl* runs do5n it
can pa* 2or long?term development o2 the ecos*stem.
!%: 0hat3s the time 2rame4 5hen do *ou plan on Ethereum actuall* +ecoming its
o5n ACG
CH: )hat3s a great 9uestion4 un2ortunatel* the in2rastructure and technolog* to
+uild a proper decentrali:ed autonomous compan* is not 9uite 5here it needs to
+e *et. Especiall* not i2 *ou 5ant to stick O->million into it4 *ou3d 5ant a little +it
o2 certaint* +ehind it so *ou have to do things the traditional 5a*4 at least 2or
no5. 0hat 5e3re going to do is start an organisation in a 6urisdiction or it might
+e some5here else 5e3re still in talks 5ith la5*ers a+out 5here the +est place
to do this is. )hen 5e3re going to +e 5orking 5ith %*le and a couple o2 other
partners and over and ,- -/months period 5e3re going to convert that
organisation s*stematicall*4 step +* step4 into a decentrali:ed autonomous
entit*Lorganisation. 0e 5ill produce a documentar* and a manual4 give it to the
communit* and sa* pick 0ikipedia4 pick all these other gu*s and sho5 them the
merits o2 5hat 5e3ve +een a+le to do here.
$n the meantime 5e3re ver* concerned a+out transparenc*4 5e have Anthon*
iorio 5ith us 5ho has kind o2 set the gold standard 2or the Bitcoin alliance o2
Canada. 0e3re going to su+mit 9uarterl* audits +* independent accounting and
5e3ll also have in?house council and house accounting 5ith the organisation. 0e
2eel it3s the +est +alance that 5e can provide toda* and it3s something that3s
productive +ecause 5e can partner 5ith ever*+od* 5ho is interested in ACs
a+out this process to +uild that.
!%: Let me stop *ou here4 5e got oC topic a little +it +ut $ 5ant to talk a+out the
2undraising model o2 the t5o other gu*s then $ 5ant to come +ack and talk a+out
6urisdiction4 okG
CH: &ure
!%: Let3s go 5ith "astercoin4 *ou gu*s have alread* done some 2undraising rightG
!: $t3s alread* out there on the market.
!%: Keah4 5h* don3t *ou go through ho5 that is and ho5 $ can ac9uire "astercoin
toda* i2 $ 5anted to +e involved 5ith it.
!: &ure4 the 9uestion is4 i2 *ou don3t need mining then ho5 can *ou 2airl*
distri+ute tokens. )he 5a* that !@ set it up 5as to create this almost kickstarter?
like T.?da* period 5here an*+od* could send B)C to a particular address4 the
genesis address or the e;odus address as the* called it.
(Laughs someone says exodus address name is funny)
uring that period an*+od* that sent B)C 2rom August ,
st
T,
st
-.,T to that
address 5as pu+licl* advertised Eand the all the Bitcoin communit* comesF... $2
*ou +elieve in these 2eatures4 i2 *ou 5ant these ne5 pro6ects to succeed4 send
Bitcoin to this particular address4 that generated ,.. "astercoins 2or ever* ,
Bitcoin. At the time the price o2 Bitcoin 5as a+out O,.. so it 5as O, per token o2
"astercoin. $t create t5o pools4 an*+od* that contri+utes the*3re going to get a
set amount o2 tokens and then 5e3re going to create an additional pool on top 2or
developers called developer "&C and it3s given out on a regular predicta+le +asis
+ased on an algorithm to developers ever* month that contri+ute to the open?
source implementation.
)hose are the t5o pools4 people that provided value and mone* to develop this
stuC and then a long term pool o2 tokens 2or ever*+od* that contri+utes over the
*ears in the 2uture to the 2urther development. )hat3s ho5 5e have +oth those
sets o2 tokens out there. &imilarl* to 5hat Charles 5as descri+ing is that our goal
is to have this done in a completel* decentrali:ed 5a*4 5e don3t 5ant a
2oundation that has an* control 5hatsoever over this process.
0hat 5e said is that 5e certainl* don3t 5ant it centrali:ed around !@4 so let3s
create a non?proDt 2oundation. )he 2oundation 5ill hold the 2unds and distri+ute
them to developers4 5hat 5e3re implementing is a proo2?o2?stake s*stem that lets
ever*+od* that holds "astercoins vote on the ne5 version o2 the protocol. )he
second part is a distri+uted +ount* s*stem4 so an*+od* could put up =0e have to
code this ne;tA and the communit* can decide +ased on consensus 5ho should
get the developer coins4 5hat should +e paid out4 5ho should get roll?+ased
+ounties.
All o2 things that the 2oundation is doing right no5 +asicall* dissolve as it goes
2or5ard4 it3s the same as Bitcoin that the 2oundation has no more control over
the protocol than sa* the Bitcoin 2oundation.
!%: &o a >,J attack on "astercoin 5as 6ust +u*ing a shit?load o2 Bitcoin rightG
CH: Kou 5ould have to +u* >,J o2 them +ecause it3s on a proo2?o2?stake s*stem.
$t 5ould +e reall* e;pensive i2 *ou tried to +u* all o2 them and *ou 5ould drive
up the price.
!%: 0ell $3d +e happ* a+out that 2or a 5hile4 that 5ould +e cool.
(CH+JK share laughter)
!%: Let3s move onto Bit&hares.
L: 0e actuall* have a h*+rid model4 5e started 5ith one model and 5e pivoted
to a "astercoin st*le model 5ith some changes. )he initial model that 5e had is
5hat 5e 5ere calling Bit&haresP)&4 it3s a ne5 Bitcoin clone 5ithout an* pre?mine
that an*one can go and start mining. )hat took oC 5hen 5e launched <ovem+er
>
th
4 it3s +een 5idel* success2ul4 and 5e reached -. million W market?cap. 0e
+rieH* hit T,mil 2or Proto&hare 5hen Bitcoin 5as at O,-... $t used to +e
Proto&hare4 5e no5 call it Bit&haresP)&.
)hat 5as good4 it allo5ed our communit* to go 2rom nothing to a+out ,.4...
people. Hal2 in China4 hal2 at our 2orums on Bitsharestalk and pro+a+l* man*
more that 5e don3t kno5 a+out that are involved +ecause the* learned a+out
Proto&hares. 0hat Proto&hares allo5 *ou to do is the* allo5 *ou a stake o2 at
least ,.J in ever* 2uture decentrali:ed s*stem that 5e produce4 5e3re tr*ing to
encourage others to do the same thing to get the communit* support.
)hat didn3t reall* help us all that much4 5hat 5e realised 2rom that 5as that 2rom
mining people spending O,..4... a da* 2or Ama:on cloud service or their
electric compan* to mine these Proto&hares4 all that mone* is +eing +urnt up.
$t3s ridiculous to destro* *our seed mone* in the allocation o2 *our shares. )hat
gave us the idea o2 5hat i2 5e could capture all o2 the mone* that is +eing spent
in mining and repurpose that mone* to the development o2 decentrali:ed
+usinesses that actuall* give value to the Proto&hare holders. )hat3s 5here 5e
came up 5ith Angel&hares or Bit&haresA)&.
Each and ever* da* *ou mine 5ith *our mone*4 instead o2 2or *our mone*4 there
is a D;ed allocation o2 >4... 2or Bitcoin and >4... 2or Proto&haresLBit&haresP)&
holders. )he more mone* that is contri+uted to the Angel addressLthe e;odus
address on a given da* sets the price4 so there is an actual market operating
each and ever* da* that3s esta+lishing the price and it3s got the same social
contract as Proto&hares at least ,.J o2 ever*thing that 5e do in the 2uture.
0ith the initial Bit&haresI4 our +ank and e;change4 *ou3re going to get >.J
going to Proto&hare holders and >.J going to the Angel&hare holders.
$t has +een 5idel* success2ul4 depending on the price o2 Bitcoin4 5e3ve pro+a+l*
raised O-million in the month o2 !anuar* alone through the com+ination o2
Proto&hares and Angel&hares.
!%: Cool4 ok so 5hat $ 5anted to come +ack to 5as 6urisdiction4 so $ Drst $3d like
ever*+od* to give a short ans5er o2 5here *ou3re +ased.
CH: 0e reall* don3t have a geographic location4 $3m in Colorado.
!%: 0hat $3m sa*ing is *our compan* is going to +e 2ormed some5here4 Canada
rightG
CH: Keah4 the holding compan* that3s managing the mone*4 the Dduciar* entit*
5ill most likel* +e in Canada4 5e3ve looked a couple o2 other alternatives such as
&5it:erland 2or e;ample. 0e reall* 5ant to go to a place 5here the rule o2 La5 is
strong and the regulation is coherent.
!%: (k4 so "astercoinG
!: &ame kind o2 deal4 there are a lot o2 "astercoin 2oundations around the 5orld.
)here is one in China4 the Pnited &tates4 one in $srael4 +ut the one that holds the
original e;odus 2unds is a non?proDt incorporated out o2 ela5are.
!%: (k.
L: $nvictus is a 7irginia compan* and 5e3re looking to Dnd the +est 6urisdiction
6ust like Ethereum.
!%: (k so 5h* $ asked that 5as and 6ust like *ou 6umped into4 5e3re +ased
ever*5here. 0e talk a+out all o2 these 5onder2ul things4 distri+uted autonomous
corporationsLorganisations that *ou have to create too. !ust like 5ith Bitcoin4
2acilitating oC the evil4 so called. )here is the a+ilit* in these things to create
some horri+le shit4 5e 6okingl* talked on the 5a* over here o2 a distri+uted
autonomous assassinations. Like 9uad copters 5ith :ip guns or small amounts o2
e;plosives4 put in an address4 pa* some coins and then +u* and +lo5 up.
L: $ think the P& government is on +oard no5 (laughs)
!%: (laughs) Keah4 e;actl*. )hat3s real things4 $ +elieve that i2 there are to +e
e;ploits then let3s talk a+out the e;ploit no5 +ecause it3s going to happen
eventuall*. (ne o2 the things that3s going to happen is that 5hen someone
utili:es one o2 *our plat2orms 2or something terri+le like this4 +ecause it 5ill
happen4 is that someone is going to 5ant someone to hang 2or it. 0e had a long
talk last night a+out this4 &atoshi didn3t have to deal 5ith this4 he 6ust
disappeared. 0e can3t go =(H let3s go get &atoshi4 damned BitcoinsA +ecause
he3s gone4 *ou can3t do that. But $ can gra+ Charles and shake him real hard and
do stuC that the P& governments do.
!: Let me address this one 5ith a couple o2 things. #irst4 as a 2oundation4 5hat
5e3ve said is that 5e3re never going to get involved in an* o2 the operations.
0e3re not going to run an e;change4 5e3re not going to +e a market maker or
an* o2 that. 0e onl* and purel* support the open source development. &tep t5o4
$ +elieve ever*+od* on this panel is a mem+er o2 the ne5 C(A organisations4
5hich is an*+od* hasn3t heard o2 it it3s the Consortium o2 ecentrali:ed
Applications and it3s a legal entit* that 5e3ve created 6ust to 2ocus on the
regulator* issues that *ou3re +ringing up and the legal issues.
)he*3re creating papers on 5hat3s the legal vie5 o2 this4 the*3re talking to the
regulator* agencies so 5e3ve put some o2 our 2unds aside 2or that issue to get
5a* ahead o2 it +e2ore R?months 2rom no5 5hat *ou descri+ed happens.
!%: @ight and 2or R?months $ think that pro+a+l* makes sense and $ think that3s a
good Band?Aid. But ultimatel* $ think the reason that all o2 *our plat2orms e;ist is
+ecause 5e all realise that 5e need something that can3t +e stopped4 that is
6urisdiction less4 something that doesn3t e;ist in one 6urisdiction and something
no one can actuall* have control over.
L: 0ell luckil* our mone* doesn3t sit in a 6urisdiction4 it3s in Bitcoin.
(Intermission - advertisements)
)his is Chris !oseph4 taking a minute to tell *ou a+out <I). 0ritten 2rom the
ground up <I) is a ,..J proo2?o2?stake second generation cr*pto?currenc*. $t3s
loaded 5ith advanced 2eatures +ut the one $ 5ant to tell *ou a+out toda* is <I)s
alternative to mining 5hich is called transparent 2orging4 5e think <I) could
achieve instant transactions at a rate o2 more than ,...per second as much as
7isa. <I)s proo2?o2?stake model eliminates the threat o2 hash?po5er
centrali:ation and the net5ork is supported 2or a minimal energ* cost. Best o2 all4
<I) is onl* 1?5eeks old +ut is alread* supported +* an incredi+le communit*4 so
please come and 6oin us head on over to <I)cr*pto.org or m*<I).org.
&ta* tuned 2or more ne5s on <I) on the ne;t Let3s )alk Bitcoin +roadcast.
(End intermission)
!%: Ethereum alread* has a plan to eventuall* =level upA like Pokemon to a AC4
as its core compan*. $ think that3s cool4 have *ou gu*s thought a+out that4 have
*ou al5a*s thought it3d al5a*s +e something like thatG
!: !ust like $ descri+ed4 5e3re taking a similar approach 5here the 2oundation 5ill
have . po5er 5hatsoever over the protocol4 the sooner 5e can get to that stage
the +etter. Like Charles said4 not all o2 the tools to completel* get there e;ist
toda* +ut $ think the* 5ill 5ithin the ne;t ,-?months or so4 +ut like *ou said it3s
got to +e something that lives in the cloud and doesn3t have a central point o2
2ailure.
!%: id *ou 5ant to 5eigh in on thatG
L: Keah4 like "astercoin 5e3re tr*ing to 2ocus on onl* +eing the so2t5are
producers. 0e3re producing the plat2orms to allo5 other people to launch their
o5n s*stems 5ith our goal +eing to lo5er the +arrier o2 entr* to that an*one can
launch a ne5 AC. $2 *ou have a high +arrier o2 entr*4 2or e;ample re9uiring
millions o2 dollars3 5orth o2 A&$Cs to mine or hard5are4 *ou can3t release another
&HA?->R +ased coin 5ithout e;isting po5ers in the mining 5orld controlling it. $t
doesn3t matter 5hat *our proo2?o2?5ork is4 that3s going to +e the case.
0e 5ant to lo5er the +arrier o2 entr* to allo5 an*one to launch a decentrali:ed
application. )hen the 2ree market is the ultimate 2orm o2 decentrali:ation and i2
5e provide the tools then the market 5ill do the rest.
CH: $ love providing the tools4 in 2act 5e can do <amecoin in Dve lines o2 code in
our plat2orm4 that3s something 5e like to mention. $t3s reall* important to have
the tools4 the proper developer e;perience and it3s reall* important to inter2ace
5ith *our ecos*stem4 have the nice interpla* and ask them 5hat the* 5ant4 5hat
don3t the* like. $ think 5e have a nice +alance here and $ love that ave is doing
some interesting things 5ith "astercoin +ecause 5e3re pro+a+l* going to talk to
them on a prett* regular +asis to help us to centrali:e our organisation +ecause
it3s important that the kno5ledge gets out there4 that3s our primar* 2ocus.
!%: Kou +rought up something interesting here4 $ think it3s the main diCerentiator
+et5een Ethereum4 "astercoin and Bit&hares here is that Ethereum has
implemented a )uring complete script s*stem into it and then *ou t5o gu*s have
+asicall* taken a 2eature set4 there is a 2eature set to choose 2rom +ut there is
not particularl* a language to make it completel* open 2or ever*one. Am $
misinterpreting thisG
!: )here is and there isn3t. )he "aster protocol has taken a speciDc standard 2or
encoding the data into the Blockchain4 *ou could sa* that3s our approach to allo5
people to easil* encode this particular t*pe o2 in2ormation into the Blockchain.
Another pro6ect like () or Coloredcoins is taking a diCerent technological
approach to encoding that in2ormation. 0hat 5e have is 2our diCerent
approaches4 at least that $3m a5are o2 that people are testing out.
)he Drst +eing +uilding on top o2 Bitcoin 5ithout having a token4 such as
Colorcoins. &econdl* *ou +uild on top o2 Bitcoin and *ou have a token4 such as
"astercoin. )hirdl* *ou do *our o5n Blockchain such as Ethereum or Bit&hares or
then i2 *ou have no relation to a Blockchain that3s sort o2 ()4 +eing an open?
source pro6ect it3s going to end up +eing pulled into all o2 our eCorts +ecause it
adds a lot o2 volume o2 code 5hen it comes to great contract 5ork. Chris has
done an incredi+le 6o+ 5ith () and reall* added a lot o2 value to the communit*.
)hose are the 2our things that are getting tested4 open?source no Blockchain4
open?source no token4 open?source on top o2 Bitcoin and open?source on top o2
*our o5n Blockchain.
!%: Alright4 since 5e have the people here to talk a+out it 5h* don3t 5e talk a+out
that speciDc value proposition. $3ll give each o2 *ou a couple o2 minutes to tell me
5hat that value proposition is a 5a* to get to this ne;t level o2 Blockchain
technolog*4 or lack o2 Blockchain technolog* that is going to +e the driving 2orce
+ehind adoption 2or *our speciDc entit*.
CH: $t starts 5ith asking the 9uestion 5hat is *our Blockchain supposed to do
2or *ouG 0hat is the purpose o2 *our BlockchainG $s the Blockchain 5here *ou
2eatures are supposed to live4 is the Blockchain 5here *our decentrali:ed entities
live or is the Blockchain supposed to +e something that is there 5hen *ou need it
+ut inter2aces usuall* 5ith a decentrali:ed application that runs on the client?
sideG 0e3ve +een talking a lot 5ith !ohan and Chris (dom a+out integrating (pen
)ransactions into our ecos*stem +ecause the*3ve done some a+solutel*
phenomenal 5ork4 the* have reall* 5orked hard.
)he* have this pro+lem 5ith voting pools and *ou have to audit the voting pools4
that3s a trust 2eature and the argument the* give is that i2 *ou have enough
pla*ers in the pool it eventuall* keeps people honest. $2 *ou look 0all &treet and
other entities that3s not necessaril* completel* true so *ou sa* 5ait a minute
here4 auditing can +e done +* the Ethereum Blockchain. )hat3s ver* eas* to
implement4 it3s 6ust a 2e5 lines o2 code. Kou can take all o2 *our decentrali:ed
trading4 the price discover*4 *ou can take all o2 the +loat that *ou 5ould normall*
incur 5ith running an decentrali:ed e;change and outsource it to open
transactions +ut have the same level o2 trust as *ou 5ould have i2 *ou ran
ever*thing on a Blockchain.
)hat3s the ke*4 to Dnd the value points and sa*ing 5hether it3s going to live on or
oC chain and 5here is the application going to +e. )he philosoph* 5e take 5ith
Ethereum is 5e have no 2eatures4 5e3re like "inecra2t4 it3s 6ust a +ig open 5orld
that *ou can +uild on top o2. $2 *ou 5ant to +uild a Computer in "inecra2t 5ith
redstone *ou can do that.
!%: o *ou have creepers at EthereumG
CH: Keah 5e have creepers at this space man4 its great8 But an*5a* that3s the
approach 5e take4 5e sa* he*4 it3s this +ig open ecos*stem. $t3s a Lego in a
sense that *ou use to +uild on top o2 and the ke* is incentivi:ing people like
"astercoin and Colorcoin to see the value proposition o2 eventuall* developing
on top o2 our plat2orm4 it3s sho5ing the Bit&hares gu*s that the* can do a AC a
minute. $2 *ou 5ant to use proo2?o2?stake4 *ou can use proo2?o2?stake. Kou can run
all o2 that logic and connect it in a ver* creative 5a* so that the +loat either lives
on a small Blockchain that is onl* handled amongst the people 5ho are relevant
or i2 *ou 5ant to pa* the e;pense it3s handled on the Ethereum Blockchain so
there is a lot o2 options that ever*+od* has.
$2 5e give good tools and 5e3re ver* diligent 5ith this process4 eventuall* those
options 5ill +ecome ver* satis2*ing to people and our goal is to reduce the
2ragmentation4 reduce the isolation in the s*stem. 0e 5ant people 5orking
together4 it makes no sense to me that ever* time 5e 5ant to do Bit"essage 5e
have to re?5rite Bit"essage. 0h* not 6ust have Bit"essage as an app and have
an AP$ to talk to Bit"essage4 5h* re?implement open transactions. !ust have
open transactions as an app and talk to it through an AP$. $t makes a lot o2 sense
to do that +ecause then ever*+od* can 2ocus on the user e;perience4 the core
mission and the Dduciar* duties the* have to the people 5ho the* have taken
mone* 2rom.
!%: Kou 5ant to 6ump inG
!: <o $ think he descri+ed it 5ell4 especiall* 2or the "aster protocol4 the core
value proposition right no5 is that 5e have this enormous resource in Bitcoin. $t3s
+* 2ar the 5orld3s most po5er2ul distri+uted net5ork so 5hen *ou talk a+out
level o2 securit*4 it3s hard to +eat something that has +een as 5ell tested as
Bitcoin. At least the value proposition that the "aster protocol oCers is4 (k *ou
can +uild here on a plat2orm 5here *ou kno5 and *ou trust the implementation
that3s alread* +een +uilt 5ith Bitcoin. Kou kno5 and trust it3s going to have the
largest net5ork aCect.
)hat3s the immediate approach4 *ou have these tools4 let +uild on top o2 them
and it3s not as e;perimental as some other approaches. )hough the e;perimental
approaches ma*+e more po5er2ul in the long run4 that3s 5hat 5e3re
e;perimenting 5ith. 0e kno5 5hat Bitcoin can do toda* so $ see the "aster
protocol as a +et that the Blockchain 5ill continue to dominate as a plat2orm and
these other pro6ects that are e;periments can +uild diCerent plat2orms 5ith
diCerent attri+utes.
$ think someone +rought up the great analog* that the 9uestion is4 is Bitcoin
)CPL$P or is it &")PG $s it a protocol that 5as +uilt 6ust 2or email or is it general
enough that 5e can use it as )CPL$P and that remains unans5ered. &o it 5ill
depend on 5hat the core developers do4 i2 the core developers decide that
Bitcoin is onl* going to +e Bitcoin4 then it ma* end up as &")P. $2 the* decide
that the* E5ill allo5 metadata em+eddedF 5hich seems the direction the*3re
going in 5ith update ..S4 the* are no5 support em+edded metadata in a 5a*
that doesn3t +loat the Blockchain and an*+od* can prune out those records i2
the* don3t 5ant to store the e;tra data. $t seems as though the*3re slo5l*
moving in that direction 5here Bitcoin can not onl* +e a pa*ment net5ork and a
store o2 value +ut also a general ledger. )hat3s 5hat 5e3re going to Dnd out.
L: 0hat 5e3re +uilding is a so2t5are li+rar* 5hich is in a )uring complete
language that allo5s *ou to +uild an* t*pe o2 AC ver* 9uickl*. (ne o2 the things
5e3re 2ocusing on is the economic eQcienc* o2 the s*stem4 recogni:ing that *ou
cannot maintain a decentrali:ed s*stem processing all o2 the transactions 2rom
e;changes 2rom ever* single +usiness model on a single chain using a single
currenc*.
But i2 *ou provide the tools4 AP$s and so2t5are *ou can +uild an entirel* ne5
Blockchain ver* 9uickl* and i2 *ou don3t have to depend upon mining 2or securit*
+ecause *ou have proo2?o2?stake com+ined 5ith ripple st*le consensus then *ou
don3t have all the e;pense or the need to centrali:e into a single Blockchain. Kou
can achieve much 2aster transactions4 much lighter 5eight transactions4 5hich is
a critical reason 5h* i2 $ 5as going to +uild a decentrali:ed +ank and e;change
and $ had to pick a plat2orm4 5ould $ +uild it on a li+rar* that 5ould eliminate all
o2 the other overhead4 the 2ees $ 5ould have to pa* to process transactions
through the Bitcoin net5ork4 pa* their miners or the 2ees $ 5ould have to pa* to
pa* the Ethereum miners. (r create a 5hole ne5 Blockchain that doesn3t have
those 2ees and there2ore $ can oCer greater value proposition to +oth the user
and the shareholders in the decentrali:ed +ank and e;change4 so the ke* is to
ma;imi:e competition.
$nstead o2 tr*ing to +uild one Blockchain to rule them all4 5hether it3s Bitcoin or
some other Blockchain. 0e 5ant to have man* Blockchains4 each o2 5hich is
ver* light 5eight so that someone 5ho onl* cares a+out pla*ing a Blockchain
+ased game or gam+ling or voting doesn3t have to process all o2 the Bids and
asks o2 the <e5 Kork &tock E;change. )hat3s the ke* to decentrali:ation4 man*
Blockchain +ecause Blockchains are not scala+le +e*ond a certain point 5hen
*ou onl* have one chain4 *ou have to go parallel and to do that 5e3re developing
a so2t5are tool kit and tr*ing to teach people the process.
!%: 0ait4 $ kno5 5e got started late4 ho5 are 5e on timeG
G: 0e have enough time
!%: Cool4 $ 6ust 5anted to make sure +ecause 5e3ve got stuC $ 5ant to talk a+out4
$ 6ust 5ant to make sure *ou all get *our turn.
CH: !ust to clari2* in 9uestion4 *our so2t5are li+rar* *ou sa* is )uring completeG
L: 0hat $3m sa*ing is that 5ith CWW4 !ava or 5hatever language *ou 5ant to
use4 i2 *ou can rapidl* put together a ne5 Blockchain $ can encode the <amecoin
transactions in a 2e5 lines o2 code +* modi2*ing an e;isting li+rar* and then
release a ne5 chain. )here3s a lot o2 value 2or the core Ethereum concept 5hich
is eCectivel* a metered computational engine 2or doing general purpose
transactions and $ +elieve there is a demand 2or that.
0hat $3d like to do is 5ork 5ith people like the Ethereum team to create a version
o2 *our Blockchain that takes *our core technolog* and com+ines it 5ith *our
proDt model4 o2 minimi:ing e;penses4 eliminating the mining and allo5 ripple?
st*le speeds. )hen *ou can get all o2 the +eneDts *ou currentl* have toda* along
5ith the +eneDts that 5e +ring to the ta+le 5hich is sustaina+le economic (Cut
o by JK)
!%: $3d like to applaud all three o2 *ou gu*s +ecause all three o2 *ou gu*s are 2or
lack o2 a +etter 5ord4 competing companies. But $ have heard all three o2 *ou in
one 5a* or another sa*M =0e 5ould reall* like to 5ork 5ith these gu*s4 5e think
this 5ill +e good 5ith that etcA. $ 5ould 6ust like to sa* that3s the 5a* to go
+ecause the truth o2 the matter is that none o2 us have an* idea ho5 this is
going to 5ork out4 5e have reall* good h*pothesises o2 ho5 this is going to turn
out4 $ think that3s great and $ think 5orking together 5ould +e great.
$ like that *ou gu*s organicall* said that and 5e didn3t have to +eat *ou over the
head to hear that.
!: )hat3s the +eauti2ul thing a+out this all +eing open?source4 part o2 5hat
Ethereum are doing are going to get dragged into the "aster protocol4 parts o2
5hat Bit&hares are doing are going to get dragged into Ethereum and parts o2
5hat () are doing is going to get dragged into all three. $t3s not solid lines o2 $3m
on this team and $ don3t like the other team4 i2 *ou3re intellectuall* honest4 5e all
kno5 that these are e;periments and that some o2 them 5ill succeed and some
o2 them 5ill 2ail +ut 5e3ll learn something valua+le. Each time 5e run these
diCerent e;periments and that 5ill add to the ecos*stem as a 5hole and $ think
the thing that +onds us together is that 5e have the same core philosoph* at
least 5ith a lot o2 the people $ have talked to.
)he goal here is to +uild these decentrali:ed s*stems and to disrupt the old
s*stems that have +ecome corrupt4 ver* hierarchical 5hether 5e3re talking
a+out +anking or Dnancing. )hat3s our core goal4 5e3re going to tr* a lot o2 5a*s
to get there4 some 5ill 5ork and some 5on3t +ut 5e can learn 2rom ever* one o2
those e;periments. $ reall* like that a+out this communit*.
!%: )here is a good +ridge here 2or something that $ think is a hot?topic around
*our three companies4 it3s going to piss some people oC here +ut so it is open?
source4 an*one can gra+ it and 2ork it at an* point in time. $3m making the
argument4 to a degree that that is 5h* pre?mining 2or an* o2 *ou gu*s is a
dangerous concept to a degree +ecause *ou gu*s are taking a great amount o2
risk4 putting a great amount o2 eCort into it. Kou gu*s are4 2or lack o2 a +etter
5ord4 ho5ever *ou gu*s 5ant to phrase it4 in *our 2undraising model there 5as
some amount o2 pre?mine o2 5hat *ou gu*s 5ere actuall* going to have value in
on *our s*stem. Kou3ve got an auction 2or it rightG
CH: )here 5as no portion that 5as set aside 2or 2ounders that 5asn3t a part o2
the auction. Ever*+od* e9uall* participated. $ do think that3s an important
connection.
!%: )hat3s great4 $3m going to ask *ou gu*s to come in and *ou can talk a+out the
speciDcs o2 it. #or Ethereum *ou gu*s have +een ver* open a+out ho5 *ou gu*s
are going to do the distri+ution o2 this initial portion4 $ 5orr* 5ith ever*one4 that
*ou gu*s are relativel* small companies (Although *ou3re rather large pla*ers in
this space) and then another compan* comes in4 gra+s all o2 *our hard 5ork4
cutting out all o2 *our 2undraising portion o2 it and taking the value proposition4
moving it4 putting a lot o2 scale +ehind it and creating a 5onder2ul ecos*stem
that 5e all 5ant and *ou gu*s are no longer reall* a part o2 it. 0hat are the
reasons that make *ou think that3s not going to happen to *ou4 ho5 *ou3re going
to mitigate it or ho5 it3s irrelevantG
CH: (ka* 5ell 5e can take a look at it 2rom a couple o2 diCerent angles +ecause
it3s a ver* good and poignant 9uestion. #irst 5e look at incentives4 5e pro+a+l*
don3t like the P& government ver* much !JK "uts o - inaudible#
!%: $ love the P& government4 2or the <&A listening right no5 $ 5as an arm*
person $ served m* countr*
CH: 0e as in the Bitcoin communit*4 there is a little +it o2 resistance there4 the*
don3t like things like P@$&". Ket the P& government is actuall* a 2airl* ro+ust
shareholder o2 Bitcoin4 the* have over -..4... o2 them +ecause o2 the read
Pirate @o+erts sei:ure. &o there is a ver* strong incentive 2or the Bitcoin
Blockchain to have a 2ork and 2or that position to +e divested4 either simpl*
removed or 2or that position to +e reallocated +* a 2acet or some mechanism
+ecause 5ho 5ants the P& government to hold these coins and have control
over the ecos*stem.
Kou can pick an* possi+le actor4 a 2ork isn3t 6ust pushing a +utton and releasing
code. $t3s an ecos*stem4 *ou have people that live there and people have
Dnancial incentives. $n our case4 miners have an incentive to mine4 there is chain
A and chain B4 5hichever one the* can actuall* sell on an e;change and make
mone* 5ith. $n the case o2 the investors 5ho +ought into the $P(4 the*3re going
to stick 5ith the people 5ho deliver value.
0hat *ou3re proposing 5here the* 2ork it and cut out the pre?mine is +asicall*
Dring the 2ounders4 so 5hat $3m sa*ing is let the market decide. $2 the 2ounders
haven3t done a good 6o+4 there is pro+a+l* going to +e a 2ork. ($eo%le try to
interru%t but CH gets "ontrol of "onversation) But let3s look at the ecos*stem as
a 5hole4 let3s sa* a hard?2ork does happen4 the onl* person in the 5orld that
scre5ed is the 2ounders4 think a+out that. Because let3s sa* Ethereum A and
Ethereum B happens and 2or some reason Ethereum B is more popular and cuts
out the 2ounders pre?mine4 5e still have Ethereum4 it still e;ists it3s there.
oes that matter to an*one 5ho is using the ecos*stemG $t reall* doesn3t matter
to an*+od* 5ho is using the ecos*stem4 the onl* gu* that gets sha2ted is me4
and $3d pro+a+l* +e a little pissed oC a+out it
!%: $ 5ant to +ack up to 5hat *ou 6ust said 5hen *ou 5ere talking a+out the
read Pirate @o+erts coins and ho5 5e could technicall* cut those coins out and
2orce them out. $n that e;ample that *ou give *ou3re talking a+out actuall*
messing a+out 5ith the 2ungi+ilit* o2 Bitcoin +ecause i2 5e have coins 5e have
control o2 and the core team at some point in time can decide that 5e can no
longer have control o2 those and the* reallocate the coins. $ think the eCect o2
that3s our mone*4 it 5ould pro+a+l* desta+ili:e the entire net5ork +* doing that4
+ut 5hat *ou gu*s are +uilding 5ith ACs is that the core value mone* is not
as important as all o2 the application stuC that *ou 5ere talking a+out. 0hereas
5ith Bitcoin and ho5 it stands right no54 the mone* is 5hat it3s a+out4 so there is
a diCerence there. $ 6ust 5anted to point that out so 5hen *ou3re talking a+out
let3s cut that portion out o2 it4 *ou can3t +ecause Bitcoin operates diCerentl* right
no5 +ecause it3s currentl* a+out the mone*. Bet those dollar +ills *a3ll4 stack
+its. Bo 2or it !.
!: $ 6ust 5anted to sa* $3ve spent a lot o2 time thinking a+out this 9uestion. )his
is the 9uestion $ had to ask m*sel2 as the lead 2or BitAngels4 $ led the due
diligence 2or the "aster protocol 5hen it came to our process. $ ask to ask m*sel2
reall* hard4 is this going to have an* valueG (r is some+od* going cop* this4 2ork
it and create another version that 5ill have all the value. $t took me a 5hile to
5rap m* head around that 9uestion +ecause *ou can sa*4 is Bitcoin 6ust this
oddit*G $s it the onl* use?case 5here creating a 2ork isn3t as valua+le +ecause all
o2 the value is in the in2rastructure and not in the code. (r can 5e appl* this
model generall* and 5hat $ eventuall* +ecame convinced o2 is that 5e can appl*
this model generall*.
)he value is not in the code4 the value is in the people 5ho +uild on top o2 the
code it3s in the in2rastructure and that 5as a +ig revelation to me +ecause it
opens up this model 2or all kinds o2 things that aren3t cash4 currenc*4 a pa*ment
net5ork. $3m not sa*ing that this model 5ill 5ork 2or ever*thing4 $ think there 5ill
+e small enough niches 5here i2 *ou cop* it and there isn3t much in2rastructure
on top then ma*+e it doesn3t make sense. But 2or an*thing that is 5idel* used
enough that there is in2rastructure +eing +uilt on top4 people 5ill sa*4 5ell should
$ go 5ith the one 5ith the nice in2rastructure4 the li+rar*4 the tools and all these
+usiness that are integrated in it or should $ go 5ith this ne5 net5ork that has
none o2 that.
$ think rational actors 5ould pick the one 5ith the in2rastructure4 +ut 5hat that
tells me is the Drst mover advantage is enormous in this area +ecause i2 *ou3re
the Drst one to do a 2air distri+ution in a transparent 5a* and +uild a ne5
technolog* then people are going to opt?in to *our s*stem over some+od* else
that comes later. )hat3s 5hat $ encourage people to do4 people think this
revolution is going to take T4 / or > *earsX )his revolution 5ill take ,- ,1
months4 ever*thing that *ou can imagine decentrali:ed the Drst version o2 that
is going to +e +uilt 5ithin the ne;t ,1months. $3m 2ollo5ing -R?protocols under
development right no5 using this ne5 model. )his is going to move reall* 2ast4 $
don3t think people appreciate ho5 2ast this is going to move.
(nce *ou have it in place people are going to opt 2or that Drst categor* as long
as it3s +een done transparentl*4 it3s +een done 2airl* 5here people could
participate. But people are going to e;periment 5ith diCerent versions4 a pool 2or
developers4 a pool 2or the kickstarter4 a pool 2or user?+ehaviour i2 *ou still do
need mining. $ think +est practises 5ill emerge +ased on 5hat people opt into. $2
*ou 6ust said $3m not going to participate in that model4 people 6ust aren3t going
to adopt that model. )he "aster protocol has +een reall* success2ul so a lot o2
people are adopting the %ickstarter model and mi;ing it 5ith a similar dev pool4
people 5ill create variations o2 that +ut $ think that +est practices are slo5l*
emerging.
CH: $ agree completel* it3s all a+out the communit* that *ou +uild and $ like the
2act that the communit* has the a+ilit* to Dre the 2ounders. )hat3s a prett* cool
2act4 think a+out it4 that3s 5hat a 2ork does i2 *ou remove the pre?mine.
L: )he thing 5e3re adding to the mi; is that 5e recogni:e that the net5ork
eCects are incredi+l* important. 0hich is part o2 the reason 5e launched
Bit&haresP)& in <ovem+er so 5e can capture the net5ork eCect4 +uild the
communit* and start getting some in2rastructure around the Bit&haresI
e;change idea. (ne o2 the things 5e3re doing no5 is no5 that 5e3re +uilding an
open?source li+rar* and tool kit4 5e3ll actuall* have a so2t5are?licence that i2
*ou3re going to use our tool?kit to +uild something4 *ou have to honour the
2ounders. Even though it3s open?source *ou can do that. $t doesn3t stop someone
2rom creating an entirel* ne5 language and entirel* implementing it +ut that3s o2
course4 Drst mover advantage. $2 *ou3re going to +uild something ne5 2rom
scratch4 *ou3re going to have to go through all o2 the leg 5ork that 5e3ve gone
through that 5ill set *ou +ack dramaticall*.
&omeone else can come along4 allocate -.J to the creators o2 the open?source
li+rar* that *ou3re using and take the other 1.J and distri+ute it ho5ever the*
need i2 the* need to raise 2unds 2or development4 an* o2 those things.
!%: (ka*4 so *ou gu*s have this ne;t?gen technolog* here and $3m pro+a+l* going
to use a reall* poor e;ample here +utM let3s sa* an application 2or e;ample 5e
had #riendster then #riendster sucked so the* +uilt "*space. Ever*one had
"*space and 5as like ="*space is going to +e itA4 then #ace+ook 5as 6ust there
and #ace+ook +ecame u+i9uitous and ever*+od* had #ace+ook. &o there 5as
this iterative process o2 having the core 2unctionalit*. )he core 2unctionalit* o2
#riendster 5asn3t particularl* diCerent than #ace+ook +ut no one is on #riendster
an*more and no5 #ace+ook is starting to lose market share to ne5er 5e+sites.
o *ou gu*s 2eel that *ou3re 6ust one iteration in the gro5th o2 this technolog*
and that *ou gu*s 5ill see additional currencies or additional Blockchain
technologies +uilt on top o2 *ou gu*s or +uilt to supersede *ou gu*s4 or is this it4
is this going to ena+le to +uilding o2 the 5hole 2utureG
CH: $ think it 5ould +e hu+ristic to claim that <etscape ,.. 5as the Dnal 5e+
+ro5ser. $ don3t 5ant to +e #ace+ook4 $ don3t 5ant to +e rop+o;4 those are
applications. $ 5ant to +e the 5e+ +ro5ser4 $ 5ant to +e the 2oundation la*er and
$ 5ant to get ever*+od* +ehind the idea that 5e need a 2oundation la*er. Let3s
talk a+out ho5 to make that 2oundation la*er 5ork4 let3s talk a+out ho5 to make
that 2oundation la*er scala+le and eas* to develop on top o2.
$t3s a process4 it takes a lot o2 eCort. )here are some philosophies on ho5 to do
that +ut ulimteal* $ think +est value proposition that oculd +e oCered to the
cr*ptocurrenc* space right no5 is unit*. 0e need to start 5orking together4 5e
need to start ackno5ledging that the pro+lem 5ith BitPa* are similar to the
pro+lem 5ith CoinBase4 are similar to the pro+lems that 5e have4 that Bit&hares
has4 that ave has. $t makes sense to me to rall* +ehind some core principles4
our principles are reall* simple4 and simplicit* is one o2 them. "odularit*4
universalit*4 non?discrimination4 agilit* these are principles that $ think
ever*+od* in this space can like.
$ also think that 5e recogni:e that Bitcoin is 9uite valua+le +ut it still has a ver*
small ecos*stem compared to glo+al population. )he real gro5th hasn3t
happened *et4 5e3re not at the +illion person stage *et. &o ho5 do *ou get
+et5een - million people and - +illion peopleG )hat3s the user e;perience and
*ou3re never going to get a 5onder2ul user e;perience i2 *ou have -R?procotols4
-R standards and ,>. coins Hoating around. 0hether *our approach is to have
licensed li+rar* or *our approach is to +uild the Android o2 the cr*ptocurrenc*
space like 5e3re tr*ing4 one o2 these 5ill eventuall* 5in. &omething 5ill solidi2*4
then the user e;perience 5ill ver* rapidl* get +etter and eventuall* *ou3re going
to have all o2 the creativit* coming in.
!ust think a+out ho5 man* reall* +right people are in this space 5ho are not
phenomenal coders4 5ho aren3t reall* hard?core programmers 5ho 5rite
assem+l* code ever*da* +ut the*3re great designers. )he magic o2 the 5e+
5as to give these +eauti2ul tools to people to +uild ama:ing 5e+siteL5e+pages
5ithout having to +e a hard?core developer4 5e gave them that. )hat3s kind o2
the goal here4 let3s give these ama:ing tools 5hether it +e a li+rar*4 a plat2orm4
a reall* ro+ust protocol or ma*+e a composition o2 all three4 so that *ou can 5alk
in there in a ver* small period o2 time4 T5eeks R5eeks 5hatever *our dream is4
*ou can get it done. )hat3s 5hat $3m tr*ing to get done in this ecos*stem and m*
hope is that Bitcoin starts competing 5ith us +ecause in the process o2
competing 5ith us it3s actuall* going to make the Bitcoin protocol signiDcantl*
more ro+ust that 5a* ever*+od* 5ins4 the 5hole ecos*stem is going to 5in.
7alue goes up4 it3s a rising tide eCect.
(&usi"al interlude)
!: $ 5ould agree 5ith Charles on a lot o2 points and $ think the goal here is to
+uild these ne5 s*stems in a 5a* that conserve the most people. $ think he
made a reall* good insight into user levels4 this is sort o2 ho5 technolog* 5orks
toda*4 m* o5n vie5 is that 5hat 5e3re going to see is more and more protocols
+uilt on top o2 each other. &o *ou +u* a computer4 the computer is hard5are it3s
a plat2orm itsel24 *ou have an operating s*stem that 5orks on top o2 the
computer hard5are.
)he operating s*stem has a num+er o2 diCerent technolog* stacks4 let3s sa*
*ou3re in the Apple technolog* stack or *ou can use the Boogle technolog* stack
that3s sort o2 a third la*er. (n top o2 that Boogle oCer a huge plethora o2
applications 2rom its app store and most people are here at the 2ourth level.
)he*3re not in the hard5are4 the*3re not in the (&4 the*3re not even in the tech
stack +ut the*3re using those end user applications.
)hat3s 5hat $3ve descri+ed 2or those that have read m* decentrali:ed
applications 5hite?paper is that $ have seen these diCerent la*ers emerging 2or
the Bitcoin ecos*stem. 0e can think o2 Bitcoin as that +ottom la*er4 5e can +uild
things on top o2 that4 that makes things easier to +uild. )hen most people 5ill +e
at the third or 2ourth level 5here the users end up going and that3s 5here it
reall* gets e;citing. 0e3re reall* earl* da*s concerning Bitcoin as that Drst la*er
and here 5e3re reall* talk a+out the second la*er on top o2 that technolog*. $
think in -.,>?-.,R 5e3re going to get to that third and 2ourth la*er and that3s
reall* 5here *ou hit mass market.
!%: $3m actuall* going to 6ump into another 9uestion and $3m going to get *ou to
go ahead and ans5er it aniel. 0hat $3d like to talk a+out is4 let3s sa* that this
,1month period has gone +* and 5e have this mass adoption some5here o2 the
ACs. Bive us a look into the 2uture4 let3s look at Dve *ears do5n the road4 5hat
is it going to look likeG 0hat are 5e going to see here in the 5orldG Because
someone is going to 5in4 this technolog* is out o2 the +o; ? 5hat are 5e going to
see4 5hat is going to +e diCerent 2or a normal person and ho5 is this going to
aCect themG
L: $ don3t think someone is going to 5in4 $ think ever*+od* is going to 5in. Kou
asked earlier 5hether or not 5e 5ere 5orried a+out some+od* replacing us and
m* primar* vision is to teach ho5 to make all o2 these things happen. $ +elieve
that there are so man* creative ideas4 it3s like going +ack to the +eginning o2 the
$nternet and imagining Boogle and #ace+ook and all o2 the things that happened.
Kou can3t predict >?*ears out +ecause things are moving so 9uickl*4 m* personal
mission in all o2 this is to secure the li2e4 li+ert* and propert* o2 ever*one through
decentrali:ed solutions and 5e3re all going to 5in no matter 5hat.
!%: $3m not going to hold an* o2 *ou gu*s to this4 +ut 5hat $ 5ant here is $ 5ant
some pie in the sk*4 +ig ideas o2 ho5 this is going to make it all +etter. )ake it out
as 2ar as *ou need to >. *ears in advanced tell me 5hat li2e could possi+l* +e
like i2 ever*thing 5ent 5ell.
L: 0here $ am going4 is a 5orld 5here all interaction 5ith our 2ello5 man is
entirel* voluntar*. 0here *ou no longer need to rel* on government to settle
disputes4 in 2act decentrali:ed technologies 5ill make governments entirel*
irrelevant and ineCective in +eing a+le to do an*thing +ecause 5e no5 have the
a+ilit* to communicate 5ith ever*one on the 5orld4 the a+ilit* to reach a glo+al
consensus a+out 5ho o5ns 5hat4 ho5 to settle disputes and ho5 to do co?
ordinated decentrali:ed 6ustice 5ithout having to rel* on ta;ation or 2orce.
CH: HEA@4 HEA@8
!: $ can hear the cheers 2rom <e5 Hampshire 2rom here.
L: )hat is m* mission4 $ have various decentrali:ed applications4 do:ens o2 them
on a roadmap on ho5 to get there 2rom 5here 5e are toda*. $t3s going to +e an
ama:ing ne5 5orld4 m* primar* goal is to teach people ho5 to appl* these
principles +ecause $ kno5 that $ don3t have enough creativit* to see ever*thing
that3s going to happen. But $ do +elieve that eventuall*4 the 2ree?market4 5ill Dnd
a 5a* to provide that particular good service4 the securit* and protection o2 all
our propert* 2rom ever*one including organised crimeX like governments.
('%%lauds)
!%: Kou gu*s can3t tell this over the radio +ut 5e have a +ig cro5d here4 5e have
packed this studio out4 people are interested in this and that3s 2antastic.
!: &o let me imagine 5ith *our 5orld4 5here the idea i2 *ou have one 6o+ is
anti9uated4 in 2act even the idea that *ou 5ould go to one place or 5ork on one
pro6ect 2or *ears at a time is entirel* anti9uated to the 5a* 5e think in this 2uture
5orld. Because i2 $ can immediatel* earn tokens 2or 5hatever value $3m
contri+uting. $2 $3m contri+uting to a decentrali:ed rop+o; +* the Ttera?+*tes
sitting on m* desktop or i2 $3m contri+uting to a ne5 application +* 5riting some
o2 the code. $3m immediatel* getting compensated 5ith those tokens 5hich
unlike stock in a compan* are immediatel* li9uid4 $ can sell them on an*
e;change in the 5orld and it can immediatel* turn into an* other asset or an*
other 2ungi+le currenc*.
&o imagine a 5orld 5here *ou don3t need to have a 6o+ in the traditional sense4
or earn e9uit* in the traditional sense +ut *ou can participate in all o2 these
decentrali:ed communities and all o2 these decentrali:ed applications4 5hether it
+e the decentrali:ed rop+o;4 the decentrali:ed Ama:on4 the decentrali:ed
5hatever *ou3re doing *ou can +e universall* compensated 2or that in a 5a* that
*ou3re talking a+out 5here ar+itration and courts +ecome a thing o2 the past.
)hat3s4 $ Drml* +elieve 5here 5e3re headed. )he Drst people that are going to get
there are the programmers and the people that have these a+ilities that can
immediatel* +e put into use. As this gets to higher and higher levels *ou have
more and more ever*da* things +uilt on top o2 all these la*ers that ever*+od*
can participate in4 5hether the* kno5 a line o2 code or 5hether the*3re 6ust doing
their ever*da* thing that3s 5here $ think 5e3re going.
CH: $ have no idea. (Laughter) $ 5ant to +uild tools that give the 5orld the a+ilit*
to tell 5hat3s going to happen. $ don3t have an economic philosoph* here4 5e3ve
tried to pick a +alance in +asicall* ever*thing that 5e3ve done and ever*thing
that 5e3ve designed. 0e have no 2eatures4 the goal here isn3t to remove
governments4 the goal isn3t to change the 5orld4 the goal is to give the people
5ho 5ant to change the 5orld the a+ilit* to do that. <o matter 5here the* live4
in a completel* transparent 5a*.
)he goal is also to get the people 5ho 5ant to change the 5orld to colla+orate
5ith each other4 to talk to each other and to have these e;periments run in a
ver* transparent 5a*4 that3s m* goal4 that3s 5hat $ 5ant. $ can3t predict the
2uture4 no one can and no one has ever +een a+le to do that. $B" 5ould +e a
prett* rich compan* right no54 $ guess the*3re rich +ut the*3d o5n "icroso2t and
$ntel i2 the* could predict that. )here is so man* e;amples o2 these people4 look
at Iero; 2or heaven3s sakes.
$nstead all $ 5ant to sa* is come to me4 $ 5ant to make that e;perience so
magical and so insanel* great that ever*+od* 6ust 5ants to come to me and
+uild the ne5 5orld on top o2 this plat2orm4 that3s m* goal.
!%: (k4 t5o things here. (ne $ 5ould like to sa* *ou all have interesting
propositions +ut as $ have said +e2ore $ think that ogecoin is going to institute a
)uring complete scripting language in there. )hat is totall*4 much )uring4 man*
complete and $ think that3s going to make all o2 *ou gu*s irrelevant.
But something *ou all have said and it3s cool +ecause it makes things a lot
simpler here. Kou3ve all used the term ="e4 $A and stuC like that +ut *ou all have
a5esome teams. Kou gu*s all have people that *ou3re 5orking 5ith4 can 5e 6ust
take a minute to talk a+out the people that *ou gu*s 5ork 5ith that are helping
to +uild these pro6ects.
$ run into this all the time4 $ am !ason %ing 2rom &ean3s (utpost so people think
&ean3s (utpost is !ason %ing and that3s not true. &ean3s (utpost is a ton o2
people4 !ason %ing is not in Pensacola right no5 and guess 5hat people are still
getting 2ed right no5. &o let3s talk a+out *our teams i2 that3s cool4 6ust take a
minute and talk a+out that.
CH: 0e have a reall* 5onder2ul team4 on the Dduciar* mem+ers?side there is
m*sel24 Anthon* iorio 5ho is the e;ecutive director o2 the Bitcoin Alliance o2
Canada4 he created &atoshiCircle4 he created %r*pto%it 5hich +* the 5a* is one
o2 the most ama:ing applications *ou need to do5nload it4 it3s incredi+le. 0e
o+viousl* have 7italik 5ho $ guess has developed the reputation o2 some sort o2
android 2rom the 2uture sent +ack in time to save us 2rom the d*stopian
government. He3s an ama:ing gu*4 it3s true4 7italik1.-,T/ the*3re going to make
a graphic novel.
)hen 5e have "ihai4 he 5orks 2or Bitcoin maga:ine4 he does Egora4 he is a reall*
phenomenal person. )he ecos*stem that 5e3ve surrounded ourselves 5ith is that
5e have a reall* health* +alance o2 people. 0e have some 9uantitative anal*sts
such as r EEmmanuel AcostaGF 5ho 5orked 2or Boldman &achs4 he is running a
hedge 2und in Asia. 0e also have !oe Lu+in 5ho is also helping us out on the
Dnancial side4 the*3re actuall* stud*ing ho5 to implement clearing houses and
do ever*thing *ou 5ould 5ant to do on 0all &treet on Ethereum to see i2 the
scripting language is ro+ust.
0e have some great marketing people like !on "ohan 5ho is reall* helping us to
+uild a communit*4 5e thought that it 5as reall* important 2rom da* one to +ring
people in to inter2ace 5ith communities. )here are so man* people on the list4 $
think 5e have a total o2 ,> -. core developers. )here is r Bavin 0ood 5ho is
a game developer4 he has +uilt game engines4 $ think he got his Ph Computer
&cience and speciali:ing in +asicall* taking algorithms to visuali:e music and he
has done some a+solutel* ama:ing things. He 5rote our entire CWW client in the
period o2 R or V da*s 5hilst drinking some @o+ert "ondavi4 he3s the kind o2 gu*
*ou 5ant to get to kno5.
0e even have a 2e5 philosophers and 5e even invited )atiana4 she did the
Bitcoin song. &he 5as at the +each house that 5e rented and 5e had some 2un.
$t3s +een reall* an ama:ing e;perience to +e on this team4 in 2act $ think it3s the
+est team $3ve ever +een on in m* entire li2e 5ith an* pro6ect that $3ve ever
5orked on. !ust +ecause there is so much passion and diversit*4 there is so much
clarit* o2 thought and there is so much vision4 5hich is so rare. )here is so much
vision in this team and m* hope is that 5e can continue to attract that as 5e
move 2or5ard and 5ork 5ith people 5ho have vision like the people here.
!: )hat3s a5esome4 *eah $3ll give a 9uick shout?out to Peter )odd4 our chie2
scientist at the 2oundation. A lot o2 people kno5 Peter )odd 2rom his 5ork as a
Bitcoin core developer4 $ reall* respect a lot o2 things that he has done and he
has +een going a2ter this 9uestion o2 Bitcoin scala+ilit* and ho5 to properl*
em+ed metadata4 $3m reall* glad to get him involved in the 2oundation. (ur
e;ecutive director 2or the 2oundation is @on Bross4 a lot o2 people kno5 him as
@ipper-T/ 2rom the Bitcointalk 2orums. Based in $srael4 a reall* great gu*4 ver*
passionate and ver* e;perienced in the space.
$ 5ant to talk a+out !.@ 0illet o2 course 5ho 5rote the original paper4 it3s +een
e;citing to see4 he has recentl* +ecome 2ull?time on the pro6ect and has +een
a+le to leave the da* 6o+ 5hich is the vision o2 ever* 2ounder ever. $ also 5ant to
talk a+out &am Kilma:4 he sits on our +oard and he is one o2 the co?2ounders o2
BitAngels. "ichael )erpin leads all o2 our media stuC4 he is also another co?
2ounder o2 BitAngels. He 5as the gu* that +ack in the ,.. da*s o2 the $nternet
2ounded "arket5ire4 the Drst internet compan* to do P@ stuC.
$ also 5ant to talk a+out a 2e5 o2 the other +oard mem+ers4 a lot o2 people kno5
Brock Pierce 5ho is sort o2 the grand2ather o2 virtual currenc*4 he3s +een doing
this since the late S.3sLearl* -...3s. !onathon Kantis and Anton*?7o are all ver*
passionate.
$t3s +een great as 5e3ve +rought on more and more core?developers4 Craig
&ellars recentl* came on as the C)( o2 the 2oundation 2ull?time. )he team has
+een e;ploding and 5e3ve no5 go north o2 ,. ,> 2ull?time developers. "arin4 a
lot o2 people kno5 +ecause he has created the most popular "astercoin 5allet
and there are three or 2our other great core developers. $3m going to 2orget a 2e5
names +ut it3s reall* +een e;citing to 5ork 5ith a team that had varied and
interesting talents.
L: $3m 5orking 5ith a great team that3s gro5ing ver* rapidl*4 5e3ve got so
man* people $ can3t even name them all 5orking all over the 5orld on man*
diCerent things. Bo &hen is a Chinese partner o2 ours4 he is head o2 all o2 the
China aspects. 0e have a huge communit* in China and he3s doing it all on his
o5n. $t3s 5onder2ul to +e a+le to 5ork 5ith people that are autonomous and 6ust
make things happen4 the*3re great partners.
@ecentl* Brian Page 6oined us4 5e met him in 7egas and he has +een completel*
revamping our marketing in a 5a* that *ou gu*s are going to appreciate in the
coming da*s and the *ear ahead. Arlen has come on?+oard and he3s going to
help us manage all o2 our +ounties and organise all o2 our technical teams. (2
course an E<odesteinGGF4 he is a CE( 2or another compan* that has a 5hole
team in Poland that he is heading to help develop and manage %e*hotee and
Bit&hares etc.
0e have got an incredi+le team4 it3s gro5ing and $3m ver* e;cited.
!: $ can3t 2orget )arii9 Le5is 5ho is in the audience4 our smart propert* lead ?
other5ise $ 5ould +e remiss.
L: Actuall* $ 2orgot to mention 0endell 2rom Hive 5ho is also in the audience
and he has +een 5orking ver* closel* 5ith us4 $3m sorr* 0endell 2or not
mentioning *ou4 $ 2eel reall* +ad.
!%: $3d like to take advantage o2 the 2act that 5e have a +unch o2 great in the
audience right no5 too4 so i2 *ou gu*s are cool4 $3m going to open it up to some
9uestions and 5e3re going to take some 9uestions4 is that coolG Has an*+od* got
an*thingG
&tan Larimer: $ 5as ver* impressed 5ith each one o2 *ou 5ho 5ere +asicall*
talking a+out ho5 5ell *ou co?operate together and $ am 6ust 5ondering ma*+e
5hether *ou can talk a+out4 is there some 5a* this 5onder2ul triumvirate in here
can put together some t*pe o2 a 6oint pro6ect that can sho5 ho5 *ou can 5ork
togetherG
!%: (k4 $ 5ant to restate this +ecause $ don3t kno5 ho5 5ell that3s getting picked
up on the mic and m* o5n piece o2 mind. &o +asicall* the gentleman said he 5as
ver* impressed 5ith all three o2 *ou4 i2 there some 5a* 5e can get a super?group
together and *ou gu*s can all riC and *ou gu*s can 5ork on a pro6ect together.
CH: A 2e5 months ago $ did have a plan to esta+lish the cr*ptocurrenc* research
group 5ith 7irginia )ech +ut 5e could never 9uite get that accomplished. $ think
there are a set o2 common pro+lems in this ecos*stem4 no matter 5ho *ou are4
Bitcoin4 Bit&hares or Ethereum such as Blockchain +loat4 coin 2ungi+ilit*4 the idea
o2 the user e;perience o2 mo+ile clients ho5 *ou 5ant to handle mo+ile clients
in that trust model that 5e all suCer 2rom.
1.J o2 the 5orld is on mo+ile and Bitcoin doesn3t do mo+ile ver* 5ell so $ think
that3s a reall* natural place o2 colla+oration 2or ever*+od* in this space. )o invest
some mone* into resolving these kinds o2 pro+lems4 5e3re pro+a+l* going to take
the lead on that and 5e3re going to make it ver* eas* 2or people to 6oin 9uickl*
and a 5a* that 5e can distri+ute these costs. <ot 6ust 2or us4 $ think these are
pro+lems that BitPa* and CoinBase and other large companies that are starting
to get a lot o2 revenue can participate in. )hat3s num+er ,.
<um+er - is that $ think 5e are alread* participating C(A4 $ got the memo on
that so 5e3re alread* 5orking together on legal pro6ects and regulation. 0e3re
going to tr* to help sculpt the legal deDnition o2 a decentrali:ed autonomous
organisation +ecause as much as 5e 5ant to move ever*thing to the cloud. )he
government still do have a sa* on ho5 the* respect smart propert* and the
generic ta;es in the s*stem.
0e3re also going to 5ork reall* closel* 5ith people to tr* to +uild things on top o2
Ethereum4 one that adds value to +oth parties. $ think there is a reall* strong
value proposition 2or +oth ColoredCoins and "astercoin in a certain respect that
5ould +eneDt +oth their investors and also their core mission4 so 5e3ll +e in talks
at some point 5ith ave and other people on the pro6ect a+out i2 5e can do that.
$ think there is deDnitel* room 2or ACs4 right no5 there is no point?clickLone?
click 5a* o2 doing ACs and a li+rar* is a good start. But $3d reall* like to improve
the user e;perience as much as possi+le so $ think 5e might colla+orate on the
li+raries and might colla+orate on the approach i2 an*thing 6ust to ensure
interopera+ilit* +et5een 5hat *ou3re doing and 5hat 5e3re doing.
&o a+solutel* &tan4 $ think that3s a ver* good 9uestion and $ think over the ne;t
si; months $ think *ou3ll +e ver* happ* 5ith the amount o2 colla+oration 5e have.
!: &tan the man that coined the term AC in the Drst place.
CH: A+solutel* he is the man 5ho coined the term decentrali:ed autonomous
corporation.
!: )hough it seems4 it ma* +e help2ul to note 2or the communit*4 it seems like
ever*+od* is moving a5a* 2rom corporation as a 2rame4 and $ kno5 *ou gu*s
5ere talking a+out decentrali:ed communities4 A consensus mechanisms and $
think that important 6ust to spend a moment on and this is something 5e3ve all
+een talking a+out. $t3s part o2 5h* $ put m* 5hite?paper out there and made the
argument 2or decentrali:ed applications and 5e need to +e care2ul4 language is
reall* important and setting precedent is reall* important. )hese are entities that
have no emplo*ees4 the* have no shares4 the* make no proDt4 the*3re not
incorporated an*5here other than the protocol itsel2.
&o $3m tr*ing to move it to a 2rame 5here it3s something more tangi+le to people
and something more accurate4 so applications given it literall* is a piece o2
so2t5are $3m do5nloading onto m* computer and using it like a regular
application is a good 2rame to use.
)here is not a per2ect consensus *et on 5hat the heck 5e3re going to call these
things +ut $ think 5e3re moving to5ards the right 2rame and 5e3re all thinking
a+out that. Charles highlighted the C(A partnership and that3s reall* important4
$ 5as 6ust speaking to Peter )odd *esterda* a+out the research 5e can do
together on the consensus stuC so $ think there is going to +e a lot o2 cross?
colla+oration +et5een the pro6ects.
CH: $ like A( +* the 5a* so $ can 5rite the +ook the A( o2 A(.
!: )he )ao o2 ao
CH: )he )ao o2 ao4 it3s +etter than the )ao o2 poo.
(Laughter)
L: 0hat $ 5ould like to see us 5ork together on is to 2ocus on taking these reall*
good ideas and making them sel2?sustaining. All living organisms need to
produce more than the* consume or the* eventuall* consume themselves and
die4 there2ore all o2 these decentrali:ed autonomous companies $3m calling
them companies +ecause that3s a concept rather than a corporation 5hich is a
legal entit*. )he* do earn a proDt +ased upon services the* provide and the
transaction 2ees the*3re charging so $ +elieve 5hat 5e can +ring to the ta+le is
taking some o2 our so2t5are tools that do ripple st*le consensus com+ined 5ith a
ne5 2orm or proo2?o2?stake 5ith something like the Ethereums )uring complete
pa*?as?*ou?go calculation engine.
Also to +uild more eQcient s*stems that are actuall* as proDta+le as can +e so
that the* can +e as viral4 sel2?sustaining and economicall* eQcient as can +e. $2 $
can +ring an*thing to the group4 to the communit*4 it3s actuall* to teach the
economics o2 +uilding sel2?sustaining s*stems.
!%: <e;t 9uestion4 an*+od*G
Uuestion 2rom Audience mem+er: 0hat do *ou think a+out the running 6oke that
a decentrali:ed autonomous corporation4 could in ,.L,>*ears could merge4 gro5
and +ecome the ne;t &k*<et. 0hat do *ou think o2 this 5hole decentrali:ed run
amok4 once *ou give computers the a+ilit* to run themselves4 5on3t the* o5n
usG
L: Let me address that4 there has +een a lot o2 con2usion a+out 5hat a
decentrali:ed autonomous compan* can do. All it reall* is a means o2 people to
co?ordinate a consensus4 to reach an agreement a+out the state o2 things. )here
is a diCerence +et5een 5hat $ like to call a vending machine 5hich can +e
thought o2 as a centrali:ed ro+ot that goes and has some +usiness and 5ith
these decentrali:ed autonomous companies4 the* are all a+out consensus and
in2ormation. )he* can do nothing on their o5n e;cept allocate or reallocate
+alances 5ithin their Blockchain. )he goal is to engineer economic incentives to
motivate people to take the actions necessar* to implement the +usiness 5ithout
having an* one person in control
A s*stem that *ou3re talking a+out 5here it +ecomes an artiDcial intelligent4
taking over the 5orld &k*net t*pe situation is more like a vending machine run
amok rather than a decentrali:ed autonomous compan*.
CH: Keah *ou 5ould totall* need a )uring complete scripting s*stem and a
decentrali:ed currenc* to do that.
(Laughter)
!: $ have actuall* thought a+out this a lot4 ma*+e this is a controversial idea +ut
m* idea o2 A$ is that people 5ill still +e at the centre. 0e are giving the A$ a 5ill4
5e3re im+uing it 5ith goals and desires and the A$ development that $ have seen
+e2ore no+od* has solved the hard A$ pro+lem. &o 5e3re getting +etter and
+etter and more advanced languages and more computational po5er and $
actuall* do think that in the ne;t -.LT. *ears 5e 5ill actuall* cross that point
5here the ma6orit* o2 the 5orld3s thinking is done +* machines. Pure num+er o2
calculations in +rains versus the num+er o2 calculations in machines Ethe
machines can out?calculate our +rains.F
$ actuall* think that3s a good thing4 that3s similar to the tipping point o2 the
industrial revolution. Be2ore the industrial revolution the ma6orit* o2 la+our on
Earth 5as done +* people or done +* livestock and toda* the ma6orit* o2 thinking
on Earth is done +* people even i2 it3s repetitive4 ver* manual or a ver*
rudimentar* sort o2 thinking4 people 5ill still have to do +ecause computers 6ust
aren3t that good *et.
$ think that 5hen 5e cross that4 it3ll +e a huge +eneDt to humanit* +ut $ think
5e3ll still +e at the centre and 5e3ll +e im+uing it 5ith goals and 5ill etc.
L: $ 5ould like to sa* one more thing on that topic. A+out people +eing in the
centre4 a lot o2 the technologies 5e 5ere +uilding 5ith Bit&hares involves
prediction markets. Kou can think a+out it as a glo+al human mind 5here the
prices are the co?ordinating 2actor. 0here *ou can price an*thing 2rom a+stract
ideas to patents4 *ou can Dgure out ho5 to allocate resources. All o2 human eCort
5ill no5 +e co?ordinated +* a decentrali:ed consensus mechanism +* prices. $t
takes the intelligence o2 each and ever* human4 com+ines them all together to
+e something more intelligent than an* artiDcial A$ could possi+l* +e.
!: But truth2ull*4 isn3t that 5hat the ro+ots 5ould tell *ou to tell us.
L: $3m actuall* a ro+ot.
CH: $ 2or one 5elcome our machine overlords.
(Laughter)
L: )here is a lot o2 5onder2ul pro6ects in academia and in private industr* that
have done some ama:ing things like eepUA 5ith avid #errucci over at 0atson
5e got to 5atch a 5onder2ul 6eopard* episode. Pete "organ is doing great 5ork
at Carnegie "ellon Pniversit* 5ith <ELL4 the 5hole o2 idea o2 +uilding a program
that can read the internet.
)here is a lot o2 government pro6ects as 5ell as academic ideas4 $ think that the
notion o2 strong A$ re9uires a diCerent unit o2 computation. 0e can +uild 5ith a
)uring complete s*stem a lot o2 things that emulate human +ehaviour4 that make
a lot o2 ama:ing decisions. Ho5ever $ don3t think 5e can actuall* get cognition
5ithout a +etter unit o2 computation so $3m not 5orried a+out an* o2 these
s*stems implementing that.
$ think that3s a no+le goal and aves right. Benerall* 5hen *ou +uild this kind o2
technolog*4 the* tend to make our lives +etter. $2 *ou think a+out the standard o2
living toda*4 glo+all*4 2or the entire 5orld it3s signiDcantl* +etter than it 5as in
the +eginning o2 the ,S
th
centur* than it 5as in the +eginning o2 the -.
th
centur*.
)his progress tends to make it easier to live 5ell regardless o2 5here *ou3re 2rom
and ho5 man* resources *ou have availa+le.
"* con6ecture is that strong A$ could actuall* do the same thing +ut that3s
something 2or @a* %ur:5eil and other gu*s to kind o2 Dgure out. $3m 6ust +uilding
android here.
(Laughter)
!%: Alright let3s do one more 9uestion4 then 5e3ll 5rap it up.
Uuestion 2rom Audience: 0hen all o2 these technologies together lead us to5ard
a 2uture in 5hich there is no scarcit* 2or human?kind on Earth. 0hat 5ill it mean
to live a li2e on EarthG
CH: &o a scarcit* 2ree econom* like the 7enus pro6ect4 a resource +ase. $ don3t
kno54 economics is like the stud* o2 scarcit* so $ guess 5e 6ust look at the
models and 5e remove the scarcit* 2actor.
!%: $ kno5 something that 5ill still +e scarce4 our time. !ust look at 5hat has
happened 5ith agriculture4 5e have moved 2rom a societ* 5here S>J o2 people
5ere involved in agriculture to - /J o2 industriali:ed countries are no5
involved in agriculture. 0e3ve shi2ted 2rom agriculture to industr* and no5 to
services. "ost services that *ou 5on3t +e a+le to replace are ones that are time?
+ased4 people 5ill still need nannies4 5e still need people to do the ph*sical
things that are interacting 5ith other people. $t3s more o2 a kno5ledge and
e;perience +ased econom*4 do *ou still 5ant to go ka*aking *oursel2 instead o2
out?sourcing it to some+od* else.
)here are a lot o2 things like that 5here our time is still scarce4 so i2 *ou 5ant
some o2 m* time4 it +ecomes more and more the most important resource.
!: But once 5e do5nload our souls into ACs4 then time is going to 2ree?up too
right8G $t3s not going to +e so scarce and then 5e3re going to +e trul* living in a
scarce?2ree societ*4 rightG
CH: )hat depends i2 it pa*s dividends or not.
L: As long as there is enough proDt motive4 $3m sure someone 5ill come up 5ith
the Hu;?capacitor and solve the time issue. But $ +elieve that human demand is
insatia+le4 there is al5a*s going to +e scarcit* 2or 5hat people actuall* 5ant.
)here is going to +e scarcit* to spaceships to go travel the universe and
there2ore that3s 5hat people are going to +e 5orking to5ards4 so $ think that3s
the case.
!%: (k that3s great $ said $ 5as going to end it there +ut $ 5ant to do one more
thing. $ 5ant *ou gu*s to go through real 9uickl* and sa* *our compan* again
and tell me ho5 $ can get involved4 tell me 5hat $ can do right no5 to get a stake
in *our compan*.
CH: Hi $3m Charles Hoskinson4 $3m a core developer on the Ethereum pro6ect.
0e3d like *ou to go to Ethereum.org
!: $3m avid !ohnston and $3m one o2 the people on the +oard o2 directors 2or the
"astercoin 2oundation4 *ou can go to mastercoin.org to go to the communit*
5e+site. 0e have a separate 2oundation 5e+site 5hich is 6ust
mastercoin2oundation.org
#or those that 5ant to see all the transparent records4 ever*thing is pu+lic
records 5ith the 2oundation4 5hether it3s our +ooks4 the developers 5orking on it
and all the developer discussion. $ reall* encourage *ou to engage4 5e don3t run
an* e;changes ourselves4 *ou can3t get "&C through either o2 those 5e+sites +ut
there is a link to the 0iki that lists all o2 the diCerent e;changes that trade
"astercoin 2or Bitcoin. All those links are at "astercoin.org
L: "* name is avid Larimer 5ith Bit&hares and $nvictus $nnovations4 *ou can
visit us at $nvictus.io check out our ne5 5e+site4 it3s +een dramaticall*
improved 2rom 5hat 5e3ve had in the past. $2 *ou 5ant to get involved in the
2uture o2 decentrali:ed +usinesses then *ou should look into our Angel
addresses.
!%: Bu*s this has +een a lot o2 2un4 thank *ou all 2or coming out here. #or
ever*one that3s here $ 5ant *ou gu*s to realise that 5e3re on the cusp o2
something here. Kou3re going to look +ack at these conversations this 5eekend
>?,.*ears 2rom no5 and *ou3re going to +e like =0o5 that 5as it4 5e 5ere right
there4 right +e2ore ever*thing 5ent cra:*A.
)hanks 2or ever*one 2or coming out4 this has +een a Let3s )alk Bitcoin production.
ABL: )hanks 2or listening to episode 1. o2 Let3s )alk Bitcoin. )his episode 5as
entitled Be*ond Bitcoin4 and 2eatured !ason %ing4 Charles Hoskinson4 avid
!ohnston and aniel Larimer. )hanks to Bustavo "atamoros o2 the &u+)ropics.org
2or providing the space at the Audiothe9ue 2or the panel and &teve "alagodi o2
&pectacular &ound 2or the recording. "usic 5as provided +* !ared @u+ens4
Beneral #u:: and Calvin Henderson.
An* 9uestions or commentsG Email adamYletstalk+itcoin.com. Have a good one8