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Singapore Management University

OBHR 001: Leadership and Team-Building G3
AY 2013-2014 Term 1
Instructor: Dr. Rani Tan

Leadership Moments Case Study Report
An Interview with Ms Joanne Ho

Group 6
Group members:
Amanda Carol Sng
Alan Ang Yong Xiang
Earnest Wong Chi Yang
Eustance Huang Yu Heng
Lim Yunyi
Shawn Tay Zi En
Thandar Wai Myint
Yeo Le Yi Shana



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Foreword Pg 5-6

1) Introduction Pg 7-8
1.1 Choice of Leader
1.2 Background of Leader

2) Building a Successful Career Pg 9-14
2.1 Personal Success
2.1.1 Big Five Model Personality Surgency
2.1.2 Big Five Model Personality Adjustment
2.1.3 Big Five Model Personality Conscientiousness
2.1.4 Big Five Model Personality Openness to Experience
2.1.5 Big Five Model Personality Agreeableness/Emotional Intelligence

3) Leadership Style and Philosophy Pg 15-23
3.1 Structure and Communication in Brand Cellar
3.1.1 Structure of Brand Cellar
3.1.2 Communications within Brand Cellar
3.2 Promoting a Relaxed and Family-centered Work Environment
3.3 Being a role model
3.4 Striking a Balance between Being Task- and People-oriented
3.4.1 Path-Goal Leadership Model
3.5 As a Socialized Charismatic Leader
3.6 Leadership Style Based on Attitudes
3.7 Adopting Stewardship and Servant-leadership
3.7.1 As a Steward
3.7.2 As a Servant Leader:
3.8 Coaching and Mentorship
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3.9 Resolving Conflict/ Handling Difficult People or Employees


4) Analysis Pg 24-27
4.1 Allowing For and Contributing To Positive Inter-Team and Dyadic Relations
4.1.1 Active Engagement and Giving Employees Room for Independence
4.1.2 Grooming Effective Middle Management
4.1.3 Promoting Frank and Open Communication
4.1.4 Servant Leadership and Demonstrating Concern for Employee Feelings
4.2 Increased Effectiveness in Promoting Optimum Behaviour
4.3 Enhanced Employee Performance

5. Reflections Pg 28-31
5.1 Lessons learnt
5.1.1 From Joannes Advice
5.1.2 From Joannes Mistakes
5.2 Impact








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Foreword
By Amanda Carol Sng
On working in Brand Cellar

I had the great privilege of interning with Joannes firm, Brand Cellar, over my long, post-A
Level break, and it was one of the most rewarding periods of learning that I have had yet.

Remembering the mentoring I received and the unforgettable internship experience, I knew that I
had to introduce Joanne to my team when we are tasked with this Leadership Moments project.
Not only did I learn much from her and the way she led our team, I felt that she was the
embodiment of what excelling in the Industry came to be for me, from what I have learnt over
five months as her intern, or as she would introduce me to her clients- her colleague and team
mate.

Not only did I get a foretaste of the Public Relations industry, I discovered my passion for it and
the areas of my expertise, under a boss who allowed me to shine at what I excelled at, one that
never once treated or insinuated that I was inadequate because of my age and inexperience.

Beyond the industry experience I gained, I am thankful that I managed to experience it at Brand
Cellar which was a very different organization as I came to realize, based on my experience
interning with companies and working (though limited). It had a unique organizational culture of
its own, of collaboration and unity. Joanne told me from the first day of work that she does
everything in her power to keep her organization politics-free, and working with the team at
Brand Cellar showed me just that. In the five months that I worked with them, they displayed not
only professionalism in the front line of work but also support and collaboration when I worked
with them and assisted them in their events. The more senior staff often checked on me to ensure
that I was not too stressed up by work and I would not forget the time when they came all the
way down on their off day to cover for me when I fell sick on a day of an event.


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On the nature of the PR industry
Having a foray into the Public Relations industry was indeed an eye-opening experience for me.
Maintaining the reputation of and being the communicator and public face for corporate clients is
essentially what the objective is, and the role that we are committed to. Yet, it became clearer to
me as the months went by that the industry was more than haute couture-donning executives and
attending lavish launch parties. It was an industry where hard work, sincerity and discipline were
the prerequisite and the reason for any success.

In a boutique firm like Brand Cellar, I especially learnt all of this because all of us were required
to take up more responsibilities given the small team size.

As such, we, including junior staff and intern (me), were in no way shielded from the pressures
of the job and the difficult situations that PR executives face on an indiscriminate basis. This
included strict deadlines, being thrown into tasks that were entirely foreign to me (as my
colleagues experienced before as well), including designing our clients Facebook pages and
page applications, getting questioned by clients when I presented my ideas to them during
meetings, and the pre-launch days where entire weeks were nothing but work. No weekends, no
time off, just full-on hard work and commitment.

The job-specific challenges showed me something more important: the importance of good,
discerning leadership. Given our young team, we needed strong leadership to guide us and give
us a vision for each of the clients we were working for, so that we would better understand the
rationale behind our promotional activities with a grasp of our clients specific needs and
objectives that they wish to meet by engaging Brand Cellars services. I have always admired
Joannes leadership, her ownership of her roles and responsibilities, and for being the figurehead
at our firm. She showed me what respected leadership ought to be-discerning, objective and
driven but yet with a genuine concern for those she led.

Our group sincerely hopes that this written report would be a good reflection of the lessons we
have learnt from Joanne, and from this whole experience.
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1. Introduction
1.1 Choice of Leader
The leader whom we chose to interview is the CEO of Brand Cellar, Ms. Joanne Ho.

Through the course of an 5 month internship experience at Brand Cellar before enrolling into
university, group member Amanda Sng had the opportunity to experience first-hand being under
the leadership of the highly successful and charismatic Joanne. Amanda was very impressed with
how Joanne ran the company and navigated the business and thus, strongly recommended that
we interview Joanne for this project. As such, we embarked on this opportunity to learn from a
top business leader and owner of a successful local SME, and to better understand how Brand
Cellar was made a success.

Brand Cellar is a Public Relations and Marketing Communications firm specialized in helping
companies increase their corporate revenue and getting a higher return on investment from their
marketing campaigns.

1.2 Background of Leader
Joanne was born in Singapore and studied in Nanyang Primary and Nanyang Girls High for her
early years of education. Though from a relatively well-to-do family, Joanne was taught how to
earn her own keep from a young age. At the age of 12, she was made to perform door-to-door
sales in International Plaza, selling Christmas cards.

Thereafter, she entered Hwa Chong Junior College, where she first embarked on her journey to
entrepreneurship by opening a tuition centre. This venture proved successful and served as
affirmation that Joanne had indeed the capability to lead a company. The experience served as a
foundation that formed the basis of Joannes future decisions.

Joanne went on to completing an accounting degree in Nanyang Technological University and
started work in Straits International Consulting Pte Ltd as a consultant. After some time she met
a client who gave her a large-scale project concerning investment relations with public-listed
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companies. The eventual success of a project of such scale served as a turning point in her
career. It reaffirmed her that her technical, interpersonal and decisional skills were of sufficient
level to independently embark on her journey to set up her own Public Relations company. Thus,
Brand Cellar was formed.

Initially the company survived solely on referrals from regular clients Joanne worked with in the
past. Over time, Brand Cellars reputation was established as a result of their consistency in
delivering quality work and commendable work ethic. Firms outside of Joannes direct network
started approaching the company, resulting in Brand Cellars growth and expansion, leading it to
where it is today; a successful Small and Medium Enterprise(SME) in one of the Worlds leading
financial hubs.


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2. Building a Successful Career
2.1 Personal Success
2.1.1 Big Five Model Personality Surgency
Despite being CEO of a successful company in her thirties, Joanne comes across as a jovial,
outgoing and down-to-earth lady. She clearly is extroverted and displays excitement at meeting
new people. Beneath her cheery demeanor, Joanne is committed to the highest of standards and
will never allow for substandard work. Amanda has recounted incidents where colleagues were
told to re-do their work because it was not up to Joannes expectations, and beyond that, they
were guided step by step, mostly through emails or phone calls on how exactly to get it done.
Her setting of high standards has continually pushed her team to their limits and beyond, and
rightfully so as this has facilitated not only their professional but also their personal growth.

Joanne also possesses high energy and determination, and she never gives up in the face of
challenges, but sees them as opportunities to push through and become even better. This is a
value and life skill that she has imparted to her team, to not back down during difficult times but
to remain determined and focused on what needs to be done. Amanda also recalled several
incidents where sudden problems cropped up pre-launch like a clients sudden request or caterers
for refreshments announcing at the last minute that they would not be able to help cater for the
event. Joannes response was never to despair, but to always find a way around the problem,
right till the time of the launch itself. Such a quality is indeed admirable, and her tenacious spirit
can certainly be one of the attributes for her success in the industry.

2.1.2 Big Five Model Personality Adjustment
In her journey to success she has encountered many people with unbecoming work ethics
including resorting to politics and manipulation to achieve a certain standing in the company or
gain a competitive edge over others.

Joanne, despite having fallen for scheming tactics and suffering the consequences of others
unethical behavior, chooses to adopt a positive stance towards these underhanded people and
attempts to understand them before jumping to conclusions or taking action. Such thinking
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reflects her maturity and emotional stability, and allows her team to look up to her as a role
model.

In addition, despite building a largely successful company, Joanne remains humble and does not
hint at any trace of arrogance or narcissism. She exudes a vibe of self-confidence, not needing to
unnecessarily flaunt her achievements to gain the acknowledgement of others. Such traits further
add to her image as a respectable head, confident and emotionally stable.

2.1.3 Big Five Model Personality Conscientiousness
Joanne possesses a high level of integrity and has stayed true to herself, adhering to her values
and not letting money be the main basis for her actions or motives. Joanne states that she will not
undertake actions that compromise her beliefs, for example, she shares that she will never exploit
her employees by overworking them, work for clients that are competitors of her existing clients
or engage in situations with a conflict in interest, or work with nasty clients just for profit.

Also, Joanne is extremely committed to her work and puts her company before herself. She quips
that she does her best to always be ready and available should her clients or colleagues need to
reach her; making her highly dependable and reiterating her dedication as a boss and as a
working partner.

She also believes every company is like a family and that she as the boss is the parent. And as
a parent, she will make sure her children or rather, team members, are well taken care of
before she takes care of herself as she views this as her responsibility as the head of the team As
a result, she has garnered the trust and respect, of not only her clients, but also her team.


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2.1.4 Big Five Model Personality Openness to Experience
Joanne understands that not everyone works well in a highly structured environment. She has
thus set the company culture such that team members are free to plan their schedules and have
the freedom to not show up in the office when not required. As long as they produce high quality
work on time and go for required group meetings or projects, people not showing up in the office
is absolutely acceptable. Going against corporate norms demonstrate her flexibility and
openness; and seeing how it has served Brand Cellar well, it goes to show Joanne is indeed a
daring leader willing to take new initiatives for the company to reach greater heights.

The 21
st
century, as Joanne claims, is not just about giving employees a good-pay, for if money
is the sole criteria, most people would eventually burn out and quit. It is instead, also about
helping employees find meaning in their work and enabling them to grow as a individuals. She
thus taps on this observation and makes her team grow not only financially (by ensuring that
their pay is more than sufficient for their needs and use) but also in the area of their character and
job-related skills and expertise.

2.1.5 Big Five Model Personality Agreeableness/Emotional Intelligence
Being articulate and able to engage others is something Joanne believes she is born with.
Working for Straits International Consulting Pte Ltd as a consultant allowed her to utilize that
trait, and gain the trust of many clients in the Public Relations industry. One of these clients
eventually gave her a large-scale project which changed her life and encouraged her to set up
Brand Cellar.

She is naturally charismatic and is able to communicate with just about anyone. However,
Joanne is only human and openly admits that she struggles with her own weaknesses, the most
prominent being her temper. Despite having a short temper, Joanne has improved tremendously
in keeping her emotions in check. In the past, she lost a few valuable team members due to her
inability to keep her temper in check, but since learning from those regrettable experiences, she
has committed herself to correcting this trait of hers and is a long way from where she has come.
Her improved ability to manage situations, her emotions and increased self-awareness has led to
her employees responding better to her, and performing better. Her team of cooperative,
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committed members produce a higher standard of work than each of them would individually.
Their synergy is reflective of Joannes relationship management skills, utilising the strength of
each member to attain the best standard of work possible.

2.2 Work Success

2.2.1 Working with New Employees and Grooming Middle Management
Joanne understands that without her team, Brand Cellar would never have become the success it
is today. The company is no longer small enough for Joanne to handle alone, and she constantly
credits her success to her team.

Though Joanne tries to encourage open communication, where anyone can approach her with
regard to any issue, she concedes that she does not have enough time given the many accounts
and responsibilities she has to juggle as the head of the firm. Hence she relies very much on her
middle management to take on issues which she cannot. The middle management is tightly
trained by Joanne and they pass on their learning their subordinates.

Joanne understands that new employees, having just entered the company, will face a steep
learning curve. Hence mentors are assigned to mentor and guide new employees to facilitate
their learning.

2.2.2 Conflict Resolution
Joanne revealed during the interview that the many years of success in the industry was not
without its fair share of challenges and conflicts that needed to be dealt with and resolved.


a couple of times I have told clients, You know, why dont we just be friends? Lets not be client
and Lets not have that relationship. Lets just be friends! And I think when I said that to a couple of
them when I have that problem, I think they didnt realize that whatever they had been doing has been
very hurtful towards us.

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There have been various instances in the past where clients were overly demanding and
sometimes unnecessarily rude. Joanne resolved such conflicts by changing their perceptions and
getting them to realize that they had more than just client-partner relations, that at the end of the
day it was best that they remained as friends. In helping her clients see this different
perspective and upon facilitating this paradigm shift, some of her clients would then realize how
unreasonable they have been and change their stance to one that is less aggressive while at the
same time being more understanding.

Joanne recognizes that communication within the company is just as important as
communication with clients. She strives to ensure that her team understands her point of view or
message conveyed. For times that miscommunication occurs and business deals are
compromised, Joanne will do her best to let team members know what they have done wrong
and how they can change/improve their protocols/actions. She will give recognition/reward when
deserved and advice/instructions when tasks are not handled up to standard.

2.2.3 Handling Mistakes Made by Her Team
Joanne shares that during instances where mistakes were made corporately, as the figurehead of
the company; she resolves issues by first, implementing damage control: thinking of the worst
plausible scenario that could happen, accepting it, and moving on to fixing the problem. After the
job for their client is done then only will Joanne advise her worker on the things that should be
done correctly for future projects they have to take charge of.

This is a good way of handling mistakes made as it protects the firms credibility by making sure
that the quality of their work is not greatly compromised even when some mistakes are made by
giving them first priority. Also, she does not neglect the development of her teammates as well,
which can be clearly seen from the feedback that is given to them upon completion of the
assignment. We can see that her priorities for the firm when faced with unforeseen circumstances
of mistakes being made are sound and beneficial for the firm.

However, when quality of their work is indeed below her clients expressed expectations, Joanne
would set her pride aside and apologize to the clients involved. She mentioned that there is no
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point in concealing the matter for the burden that carries with it makes matters even more
stressful for the team. There is an open relationship between Joanne, the team and their clients so
when an exchange does not go according to what has been agreed on, the best and only way is to
take responsibility for the mistakes made, apologize and move on. Therefore, we can note down
the emphasis of responsibility Joanne asserts on the firm, yet without reminding her staffs time
and again of the mistakes that are made because she believes that one must not badger
themselves too much over the failures that have passed.

For times that miscommunication occurs and business deals are compromised as a result of
mistakes committed by her team, Joanne explains that she deals with it by doing her best to let
team members know what they have done wrong and how they can change/improve their
protocols/actions.






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3. Leadership Style and Philosophy
3.1 Structure and Communication in Brand Cellar
So I get their managers to speak to them on what they need and why theyre stressed, I find that much
easier. Because if they ask me directly, I think a lot of people would feel a lot of pressure and (with the
managers) they dont. So you need to have very good middle management to actually help you oversee
the team. Because as the leader you cant manage everyone directly, it works tier-by-tier. So I groom my
middle managers, and my middle managers groom the team. Its a pyramid system.

The organizational culture of a firm can be seen as a reflection of its leaders values, personal
philosophy and leadership style. Brand Cellars organizational structure, culture and workings
are reflections of Joannes personal philosophy and style of leadership.

3.1.1 Structure of Brand Cellar
Joanne adopts a rather unique structure where she combines both a hierarchical structure and also
makes the extra effort to build interpersonal relationships with her employees directly. She
adopts a hierarchical structure of communication where employees talk to their middle managers
about their problems at work and the problem is then shared with the higher management if still
unsolved. In her opinion, it is important to keep the hierarchical structure in place because she
feels that it would be easier for employees to approach the middle management as they will feel
less pressured, and hence would be better able to convey their difficulties, and get the help they
require. As such, instead of her managing everyone individually, Joanne sees the value and
effectiveness of having the middle management to manage specific employees. Thus, there is a
need for a tier-by-tier structure.

3.1.2 Communications within Brand Cellar
Effective communication between her employees and herself as a leader is one of the factors that
led to the success of Brand Cellar. There is some evidence of lattice structure of communication
put into place in the company. Whenever there is a new addition to the company, Joanne makes
it a point to spend time to know that person and mentor him/her appropriately in the initial stages
before her middle managers continue on with guiding the new employee. She encourages her
employees to speak up and be open about any problems that they face in their work in order for
her to help them better. Thus, there is a direct relationship between employees and her. She also
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refuses to call her employees, staff, but rather teammates. This is an important aspect of the
lattice structure because it allows the top management to be on the same level as their
employees, allowing better communications and understanding of the problems faced. When
things are not going as well, she is the type of person who would confront the conflict, often the
one who initiates an apology in order to keep communication going on and then follow up with
the reasons she thinks why the situation is not working as well, before trying to solve it with the
other party.

As you can see from the diagram above, she believes in a two way relationship and that
communication is the essence of a good leadership.

Upon further analysis of Brand Cellar, we can see that Joanne manages her team using the self-
managed team model. Brand Cellar has a small number of employees, with each employee
bringing his or her own unique set of skills to the company. Most of the time, the highly
diversified team works interdependently without Joannes supervision, with members being
given a large amount of autonomy in the decision-making process as well as taking on leadership
roles in their specialized areas as well as when the situation calls for it.

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3.2 Promoting a Relaxed and Family-centered Work Environment
I always tell my team that they can always come back home and share as we are like family. We can
always discuss how to settle it. I think thats the most important thing, they need somebody to back them
up, to support them and feel that if Im bullied by my client or by someone, I have my bosses backing, to
tell them do not be afraid, I am there with you.

That guidance is very important so they know what to do. I think a company to a large extent, is a little bit
like a family. The bosses are like the parents dad and mum so they set the example, they set the
culture. You will see that whatever the firms culture is like and its staff is very reflective of the bosses.


Joanne believes in having a relaxed environment for her employees where it is not too rigid, so
as to removes boundaries hindering their creativity and development. Allowing them to work in
a flexible environment with freedom to some extent will promote optimism and happiness. To
her, a successful leader has to set a positive environment in the organization and ensure that her
employees do not overwork themselves when trying to achieve organizational goals and meeting
clients needs.

Joanne seeks to instill a sense of belonging in the firm and ultimately enable every employee
derive satisfaction from their jobs. To achieve this aim, Joanne promotes a family culture in
Brand Cellar where sharing and supporting one another is not only encouraged but also done on
a consistent basis. Joanne describes Brand Cellar as family. She likens her role as the head of
the company to that of being the parent to her team. In assuming this role, Joanne has mentally
geared herself to be readily available for her team members should they encounter problems of
any nature and require her advice or feedback. She does not believe in letting her team escape
from difficulties, yet she also draws the line and is protective of her team in that she will never
let her team be taken advantage of, or bullied by clients. This instils a peace of mind in
employees because they know that there is some form of support should any trouble arise. It also
builds a sense of belonging within the company as employees feel safe under a boss who has her
employees best interests at heart. With such a positive environment, employees will be more
motivated to put in their best efforts.



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3.3 Being a role model
...form of leadership requires me to guide the team. I think the most important thing a leader must do is
to set a very good example. You must walk the talk, basically if I want my team to be very responsive to
clients, Im 24/7

Joanne also believes that a leader must be able to set herself as an example to her employees
where she can walk the talk. She also strives to be a good role model to her team members to
influence them to be like her as well. In the PR industry, the most important thing is service and
being responsive to clients needs. As such, she admits to being on standby almost 24/7 in order
to be ready to respond to her clients anytime and if her team requires her help, she makes sure
that she is there for them regardless of the time. By setting herself as a role model to her team,
she has greater persuading power in comparison to simply instructing them on what they ought
to do. Through her clear leadership by example and ability to exemplify the behavior she desires
that her team should follow, her team would be more convinced of its value and efficacy through
her example.

3.4 Striking a Balance Between Being Task- and People-oriented
I always feel that its not me, its because I have a great team I have people like Amanda who was
fantastic you know really, being a good leader or entrepreneur is never about the person, its about
identifying whats good, the people in the team and allowing them to shine. You know, Im like the
conductor, I cant play, Im not the orchestra, I am just the conductor, I need to find a good pianist, a good
violinist, and I put everyone together and they have to plan. They have to be able to perform and work
together

As mentioned earlier, Joanne clearly shows traits of consideration and concern for her teams
welfare, in how she will never allow her employees to be taken advantage of, and how she seeks
to always put her employees before herself. (To quote, If one day I dont make money, Ill
make sure that they have rice on the table before I have any food on my table.) Joannes
willingness to sacrifice her well-being for her employees demonstrates altruism and servant
leadership, and this in turn inspires her employees to reciprocate by being committed to their
work, the company and her leadership.

Yet, despite her clear concern and efforts to safeguard the interests and welfare of her staff, she
is also task-oriented. As Amanda recounts of her experience, Joanne is very objective when tasks
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are undertaken and does not allow employees to slack off or not put in their best efforts. For
example, when putting together a marketing campaign for our food clients new range of dishes,
Joanne does not settle for the first idea, but instead pushes the team to come up with the best
concept that best encapsulates our client's vision and requirements. She pushes for new ideas,
and shows reluctance to accept ideas that seem like 'replicas' of what has been done before. Her
demand for high standards and constant emphasis for the team to strive for the best possible
results illustrates how task-oriented she is.

From these two observations, we attribute part of Joannes effectiveness to her ability to strike a
balance between drawing out excellence in work and, ensuring that her employees are satisfied
and taken care of.


Determinant Choice Results

It is evident that Joanne changes her leadership style to suit the situation appropriately. She is
clearly unconventional in the way she leads the team and has no issues with doing things
differently, so long as it results in greater effectiveness. For instance, she believes in working
independently and she does not need her staff to be in the office from 9am to 5pm. She does not
dictate her employees that they must work in the office during office hours. She allows them to
be flexible with their environment (they can work anywhere they want, be it by the beach or
bar) as well as their working hours, as long as they deliver their work effectively and timely
during meetings. This is possible because she has a high consideration for her employees and she
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also believes that her employees have a strong internal locus of control, are high in expertise and
their capabilities and do not want an autocratic leadership. As such, Joanne chooses to adopt a
supportive leadership style.

However, when the situation calls for it, such as when the company receives a difficult project,
she becomes more task-oriented and sets difficult but achievable goals for her employees and
affirms them that they can do the job. She will keep on encouraging them that they can do it; to
try a little harder and sometimes guiding them. This form of encouragement and the result of
having a difficult task placed on the employees by the top management create a Pygmalion effect
which drives the employees to work even harder as not to disappoint the trust placed upon them
by the manager. She expects and trusts that her employees will work their best to achieve those
goals because to be working in the PR industry in the first place, they must have the drive to
perform at their best. She also rewards better performing staff by pay-raises of 20% to 50%,
depending on how well they did. By having high expectations with consideration for her
employees, Joanne adopted a new leadership style known as Achievement-Oriented leadership
under the Path-Goal Leadership Theory.

3.5 As a Socialized Charismatic Leader
Joanne is a Socialized Charismatic Leader as she pursues organizational goals such as serving
and responding to clients effectively while promoting feelings of empowerment where she
allows her employees to complete their given tasks at their own pace and does not control and
supervise them under scrutiny. Also, she encourages the self-development of her employees by
giving them opportunities to flourish in their areas of strength. This helps the employees to reach
their fullest potential in their field of work.


3.6 Leadership Style Based on Attitudes
Theory Y and positive self-concept also applies as Joanne believes that employees like their
work and do not need to be closely supervised to get their job done. This belief is demonstrated
by how Joanne allows her employees to get the job done their way and makes it a point not call
them at 8.30am just before office hours to check on their whereabouts.
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3.7 Adopting Stewardship and Servant-leadership

3.7.1 As a Steward
I always feel that being a good leader, you have to do what you need to map out a career for each and
every staff and pay them more, rewarding them monetarily and I think when they grow up they get
rewarded and when they do good they definitely need to be given a pat on the shoulder. When they have
a problem, definitely address that.

Joanne believes in teamwork and having a reward system. She believes that Brand Cellar can
only be successful when team members work together. Joanne sees herself as a conductor
where she brings people of different skills together and then coordinates the team members to
work towards a common vision and goals. Also, she believes in rewarding her employees, as
rewards serve as recognition for their contributions and acts as incentives for them to continually
put in their best efforts.

3.7.2 As a Servant Leader:
I dont think I am like the best leader honestly but I must say that to me, I value my team more than
myself. I feel that basically being a leader the first quality you need to have is really understanding your
team and knowing what they are really good at and after that is really compassion and patience! To
groom them and let them have time to grow and excel in things that they are very good

Joanne values her team more than herself. She believes that to be a good leader, it is of utmost
importance to understand and know her team well, including each employees area of expertise.
To her, a leader should identify the followers potential. After identifying what each follower is
good at, the leader should groom and allow the followers to grow and excel in that area. By
empowering her staff and facilitating their personal growth, her employees are able to realize
their fullest potential. Her guidance and dedication help others discover their inner strength,
illustrating how she possesses an important trait of a servant leader.


That guidance is very important so they know what to do. I think a company to a large extent, is a little bit
like a family. The bosses are like the parents dad and mum so they set the example, they set the
culture. You will see that whatever the firms culture is like and its staff is very reflective of the bosses.
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And I think support and guidance is very important, its just like when this person is running they feel like
they cannot run anymore. I think me and the middle manager will keep telling them You can do it, try.
Run that little bit more, just try. Just run a little bit more. And you tell them how to run. Its like you know
use your arms a little bit, or you give them tips to guide them.

In addition, she constantly provides guidance, motivation and support to her employees. She
encourages her employees to turn to her for help whenever they face any challenges or problems.
By giving advice to her employees, they would be better equipped to handle situations not just at
work but in their personal lives as well, for example in the area of stress management.

3.8 Coaching and Mentorship

In a PR company like Brand Cellar, interns or new employees often have completely no prior
experience in this industry. As a result, it is extremely important for a more experienced manager
to mentor a less experienced protg in Brand Cellar.

The way Joanne structures work through mentorship is by doing the most difficult part of the
task herself and passing the less difficult components of the task to the mentor who will then
guide the new employee/protg on how to do it. There is this system of filtering down the work
being put in place so that the new employee will not feel overwhelmed by the workload.

She also believes that the company is like a family to a large extent, where the top management
are like the parents who set themselves as role models and they develop the culture. Developing
the firms culture is important because the employees behaviour is very reflective of the
environment. If the boss is very autocratic, there is a very high chance that the middle managers
are too. For the youngest employees, Joanne likens them to being the babies of the family, who
need the slightly older siblings who are the middle managers to guide and mentor them. As a
parent, Joanne feels the difficulty in mentoring the younger staff herself as she does not know
exactly what difficulties they face but the middle managers are more likely to empathise.
Therefore, this family structure put in place is largely effective in developing the younger staff to
their fullest extent.
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3.9 Resolving Conflict/ Handling Difficult People or Employees

In conflict resolution and confrontation, Joanne shares that she is very frank. She shares that she
will give the person an opportunity to try again and she lets the person know what she honestly
feels about them, by acknowledging their strengths and weaknesses and pointing out certain
things that she finds issue with in the area of their behavior. Being honest and giving others a
chance is her key to handling difficult employees.


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4. Analysis
There are a few key reasons that account for the effectiveness and staying power of Brand Cellar,
and Joannes leadership definitely is one of them.

In our analysis of the leader that Joanne is, we have identified how her style of leadership relates
well and has proven effective in the context of her firm and the team that she leads.

4.1 Allowing For and Contributing To Positive Inter-Team and Dyadic
Relations

Joanne realizes that leadership is a two-way influencing process, and that the success of her
company cannot be attributed to her efforts alone, but rather to both the efforts of her team and
herself. Hence from the very first day, Joanne has set to build a good, supportive working
relationship and environment, by developing positive dyadic relations with every employee.

4.1.1 Active Engagement and Giving Employees Room for Independence
In giving her fellow teammates the autonomy to work at their own pace to produce the required
deliverables, Joanne has empowered her employees to become more involved in the decision-
making process within their own career as well as in the firm when she encourages them to give
input during weekly client meetings and to share how work can be done better. Through the use
of such a system, employees working under her are likely to feel more empowered and
accountable for the work that they produce. This in turn generates higher morale at the
workplace which is likely to lead to higher productivity as well.

4.1.2 Grooming Effective Middle Management
Even though Joanne operates her company based on the traditional hierarchical structure of
communication where information is passed from the top-down, she has added her own personal
touch and this is what makes her company special. Unlike ones traditional view of a CEO who
passes all the information through the middle-managers and who makes no attempt in getting to
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know ones employees better, Joanne employs the hierarchical structure because she believes
that her middle management is well-groomed and well-positioned to handle the needs of
employees under their guidance and mentorship. However, that does not stop her from getting to
know her staff better when time permits. In creating an environment where younger employees
are more comfortable in sharing and voicing their struggles, problems and concerns with this
structure, younger employees feel more connected to the team and to the vision of the firm.

4.1.3 Promoting Frank and Open Communication
Through the use of frank and open communication rather than criticism to give constructive
feedback to her staff, staff members who are working under Joanne are likely to be less prone
towards feelings of defensiveness when their areas of weakness are pointed out. Rather, they
might even feel more compelled to make the change within themselves since the feedback can be
seen as a means towards striving for self-improvement. More than that, Joannes style of dealing
with conflict and situations sets up for minimal misunderstandings as she addresses situations
head-on. This also is an indication to employees that she is concerned about their relations and
hence does not hesitate to thrash things out so that they a consistent, positive dyadic relationship
can be maintained.

4.1.4 Servant Leadership and Demonstrating Concern for Employee Feelings
It is rather evident that Joanne employs a strong sense of servant leadership in her style of
leading. Instead of claiming all the credit for the job well done by her company, she instead
credits her success towards the staff working under her. Instead of strong expert power, she
believes that good leadership lies in the ability to understand the strengths and weaknesses of
each and every employee, and grooming and developing them to be the best they can be by
building on their strengths and what they are good at. This allows her to pick and groom the best
people for the job all the time to ensure that her company achieves continued success. Such
behaviour is highly characteristic of servant leaders, who eschew self-interests in order to groom
others and maximise their potential.

By placing others on equal ground as herself regardless of their position in the company, she
makes herself more approachable as a leader. This is because her staff would come to realize that
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she does not lead for the purposes of self-interest but rather, to empower them for collective gain.

Joanne realizes that leadership is a two-way influencing process, and that the success of her
company cannot be attributed to her efforts alone, but instead to both the efforts of her team and
herself. Hence from the very first day Joanne has set to build a good, supportive working
relationship and environment, by developing positive dyadic relations with every employee.

4.2 Increased Effectiveness in Promoting Optimum Behavior

Another of Joannes clear strengths as a leader is that she seeks to empower those who work for
her, and seeks to use her influence for good, in the way she motivates her team to be better at
their work and to sharpen their skills while delivering that message with her magnetic flair for
engaging and relating to them. As Amanda relates, often in her interactions working with Joanne,
Joanne demonstrates how to get tasks done correctly and effectively while emphasizing the
benefits and satisfaction derived from it, in a way that sounds nothing like serious work talk,
but in the form of dispensing advice that she has gleaned from her years of experience in the
industry. Joannes charisma as a leader has clear effects on her staff who display a greater sense
of self confidence and self-efficacy as a result of her influence (and her mirroring those traits).
Employees also express that they align and want to align their values with Joannes, especially
with regards to her work ethics and principles of integrity and honoring those that she works
with.

Amanda recalls how one of the junior employees who was training her in doing Event RSVP
calls for an event told her that we needed to sound confident and excited about the event, just as
Joanne demonstrates when she meets and talks to others about our company and our clients.
Also, they often quipped Joanne says when they gave advice to Amanda when she first started
work. That showed they strongly believed in Joanne, her vision and her principles, when it came
to work and dealing with situations.


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4.3 Enhanced Employee Performance

I n Allowing Employees to Exercise Creativity and challenging them to Aim Higher
With a young team (no employee is older than 35) of talented, independent-minded individuals,
Joannes openness to new ideas and experiences has allowed for their creativity to be expressed
and for the company to remain dynamic and on the cutting edge as a result.

Joanne is a boss that does not settle for second-best, and is one that constantly strives for
improvement and greater client satisfaction. This has resulted in employees to setting higher
goals, including coming up with bolder ideas and executing more daring campaign ideas for our
clients despite tight deadlines, because of the organizational culture and values that Joanne
promotes of taking risks and performing beyond expectations by doing the unexpected(as
opposed to playing it safe). This has allowed for Brand Cellar to remain sought after in the
industry and ahead in their quality of service.


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5. Reflections
In previous sections, we talked about Joannes road to success, her leadership style, and our
analysis of it. In this section, we will share our various takeaways and reflections from this
meaningful experience.

5.1 Lessons learnt

5.1.1 From Joannes Advice - Sticking close To Personal Values and Beliefs
Joanne stresses on several guiding principles for a successful career, namely being loyal, being
driven, and always giving ones best.

In many industries, loyalty is exceptionally important and rare, as people tend to be selfish and
work solely for their own self-interest. Having good leadership in the workplace could result in
greater commitment, willingness to do your best and ultimately greater loyalty to the firm.
Joanne reasons that in the PR industry, loyalty becomes a big issue when colleagues poach
clients and subsequently join competing firms despite obvious conflicting interests. Loyalty is
essential because it is proof of ones reputation and integrity. Without it, even the greatest
industry successes pale in comparison, and needless to say, are not guaranteed to last, because it
is ones character that enables one to have staying power and remain credible in the industry.

Being driven is also important for Joanne, because being driven means you are willing to work
hard and go the extra mile for your clients, which is something that they will respect and
remember. Amanda remembers how Joanne shared with her before that this will allow for
continued trust and a good working relationship between the client and firm. The lack of effort
and willingness to keep clients satisfied by adhering to their requests the best that you can only
shows for a poor attitude. Joanne says that this will most definitely lead to clients leaving within
time.
The next guiding principle is simply doing your best. You might not be the best in any particular
area, but with supervision from a good leader who pushes you to try to do even better, it is
possible to go beyond those limits. Everyone has inertia to move and to want to stay in their
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comfort zone so Joanne insists on pushing her subordinates. She confesses that it might not be
pleasant but she will do it nonetheless. She has been very happy with the way that has gone so
far, as she has successfully turned many of her good employees into great ones. We must learn to
optimize our potential.

Also, Joanne strongly feels that money is not everything. We should not go about our jobs just to
earn money, but to do the best job possible and learn as much as you can. She gives the example
of nasty clients whom she turns away if she feels her team is being bullied or insulted. Joanne
believes that it is not worth upsetting yourself and your team for money.

5.1.2 From Joannes Mistakes
One thing admirable is that Joanne demonstrates awareness and personal reflection in
recognizing her own mistakes and also the need to change the way she handles situations to best
fit the needs of her teammates. This is commendable because not every leader is humble enough
to realize their own mistakes and act on them.

I often blow up. I dont have the best of tempers, I think you know that. That is my shortcoming which Im
not shy to tell my team about because everybody has their weakness and that is my weakness.

Even as a role-model and leader to her teammates in the firm, Joanne realizes her limitations and
shared with us that she has certainly made her fair share of mistakes at work, especially when
human relations are heavily involved in her field.

One of Joannes biggest regrets is being unable to keep her short temper in check in the earlier
stages of her career. She related to us how short-temper often came in the way of maintaining
good relationships when work is not done in the right manner expected. This has cost her a few
capable workers in the past when she lost her temper in response to work not being done well.
Not everyone can understand that it was a temporal loss of composure on her part (just an in-the-
heat of the moment event,) so she had to bear the consequences of her mistakes when her
employees decided to leave the company.

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In hindsight, Joanne learnt from these mistakes she committed definitely made her a stronger
person and she has become more determined to change her way of dealing with situations and
people, and to be less emotional. As a female leader, Joanne agrees that men are less emotional
when it comes to decision-making at the workplace. She feels the emotional side of women
becomes a problem when they start to think too much, so she advises to learn how to think
without feelings. Her emotions have prevented her from making certain choices, such as to cut
contact with nasty people and learning to move on from bad experiences.

Joanne mentioned that mastering the art of listening is crucial to in order to make objective
decisions and one of the ways she learnt to deal with her short-temper. She explains that it is
only through giving your undivided attention to the other party involved that you can then
analyse the situation and gain understanding of the full story. This helps to minimize any wrong
assumptions made regarding the situation so as to avoid further misunderstanding which could
lead to deeper problems such as emotional dissatisfaction and tension between parties.

Most importantly, Joanne emphasizes that life is not perfect so we should not badger ourselves
too much over what has already happened. We must learn to treasure the good things and leave
alone the bad.

5.2 Group Reflections


Our interview with Joanne was probably the first experience with a local corporate leader for
some of us, and the interview process certainly left an indelible mark on us. Being a self-made
leader and successful entrepreneur, Joanne has proven to be a good example of how hard work
and determination to better herself as a leader has resulted in improved leadership skills and
abilities over her years of experience. We learnt from Joannes example of the importance of the
leader being able to be a visionary. Because Joanne had a clear idea of how she wanted her team
to be like, she was able to establish a unique leadership structure and working culture in her firm,
and has found the most suitable method of leading and running her firm. According to her,
anyone can be a leader. However, due to the importance of professionalism in the Public
Relations industry, Joanne cannot stress enough on the importance of communication as well as
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interpersonal relations. Providing clear lines of communication between herself, her
subordinates, and her clients has proved to be a major source of success for her firm. Problems
have to be made known so as to find solutions quickly yet effectively.

Through the short interview session that we had with Joanne, we have certainly been inspired by
her entrepreneurial spirit and gutsiness to take risks. With the words of advice that she has left
us, we have certainly gained greater insight into the real world of business and she has primed us
for the things that we can expect to face when we step out into the world of work in a few years
time.





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Annex
Transcript Pg 33-42

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TRANSCRIPT OF LTB INTERVIEW
PART I
Amanda: Hi, Joanne, thank you for agreeing to do the interview today. Im really excited that I could do the interview
with you because the last few months when I was interning at Brandcellar under you, Ive learnt a lot from you and
your leadership. So I thought it will be fun if we interview you and find out more about your leadership and how you
build this team in Singapore. Before we start with the questions, could you share a little with us about your childhood
in your early days? Because I always feel we start from somewhere and our past enables us to be who we are today.
So could you share a bit about yourself!
J oanne: Yup..yup! Umm, my mum has her own business. We were relatively well to do but she was very very hard
on me. She didnt give me a lot of money. In fact, I had to earn my money to buy my own prom dress. So I
remembered I must be..sssmust be..I started working when I was 12 years old, she made me sell Christmas cards,
I will go door to door to every single office in International Plaza to sell Christmas cards. I think that really built my
character - that you are on your own, you should not be scared and should dare to try. So that really built up my sales
skills and I think when I was in JC, yeah..coming back to the prom dress, my mum refused to give me any money to
buy the prom dress. So I basically set up a tuition centre myself. And I think I earned $3,000 to $4,000 a month. It
was quite good and I think that build me up where I told myself that I can be an entrepreneur and anything is
possible, you just have to dream it and want to do it.
Amanda: So what made you realize that you had a flair for PR because I remembered you told me before you
studied Accountancy so how did get into PR?
J oanne: I think umm everybody has a gift that God has given you and for me, I studied Accountancy because my
dad wants me to do it and he thinks its a profession and its the safest studying Accounting than PR so I think that is
why I wanted to study Accounting. But, my character really doesnt suit Accounting because I really cant count for
nuts! I did graduate but I dont think I am going to ever excel. So I was working in my mums advertising agency
where I had a client who told me to try, he gave me a very big project in fact where I did investment relations for listed
companies which I had no idea how to do it but I think he was very kind, he actually gave me the opportunity to start
and after I started, I figured how to do it. So everybody has the gift.
Shawn: So you have a lot of experience working since a young age, so is that why you decided to start your own
company besides your client suggesting that you should try? Do you have this urge to start your own business?
J oanne: Actually, you know I met a lot of entrepreneurs in my line of work and worked with some of the best
entrepreneurs in the country. I think first you have to try, I didnt think of starting my own company but somehow it
came together because it was something I liked to do. And if you like to do something, you tend to do it very well, you
spent your hours after work thinking about it, you like to do it and somehow after you do it very very well, people
recognize you for doing something very very well. And I think that was how I was forced to start my own company
lah because I picked up some clients and from there the referrals came. And its not me, I always feel that its not me,
its because I have a great team I have people like Amanda ^^ who was fantastic you know really, being a good
leader or entrepreneur is never about the person, its about identifying whats good, the people in the team and
allowing them to shine. You know, Im like the conductor, I cant play, Im not the orchestra, I am just the conductor, I
34

need to find a good pianist, a good violinist, and I put everyone together and they have to plan. They have to be able
to perform and work together. I mean thats how actual entrepreneurs do it.
Amanda: I think also in the workplace, there are a lot of people who are very talented but they need the right kind of
guidance and thats why we need leadership so what do you think a good leader is like someone who can guide their
people and how so?
J oanne: I dont think I am like the best leader honestly but I must say that to me, I value my team more than myself.
I feel that basically being a leader the first quality you need to have is really understanding your team and knowing
what they are really good at and after that is really compassion and patience! To groom them and let them have time
to grow and excel in things that they are very good at. I think those are very important if you want to be a leader of
SME. Of course if you are a leader of a corporate, like the big corporate companies, that would take a different set of
leadership skills. There are many many kinds of leaders but Im talking in particular about a leader of a small and
medium enterprise you need that because I think people have different needs nowadays. I think especially when you
lead a team in Singapore, the staff are not just looking for money , its career progression, its really how they feel,
are they doing something that they really like? People do not just work for money nowadays. Its the X-factor you
know what I mean, we worked together before (to Amanda).
Shawn: So do you consider the leadership style you just described like is it something you think it is right or is there
like someone you model yourself after?
J oanne: Umm I think there are many better kinds of leaderships but it depends on what kind of industry you are in
and you need to implement different kinds of leaderships. Ours is a marketing and PR film, so the most important
thing is service and being responsive to the cilents needs which means our form of leadership requires me to guide
the team. I think the most important thing a leader must do is to set a very good example. You must walk the talk,
basically if I want my team to be very responsive to clients, Im 24/7. I mean they know me, Ill work at night, work on
weekends, and work anytime. And if anytime my team members need my help, they will call me and I will help them.
So my job is to make sure clients feel very happy, were responsive and were very fast and at the same time, my
team is very happy because they are not overworked. That is a fine balance for our kind of industry, leadership
requires that. But I think for different industries, there are different needs.
Amanda: Like what you said, for a team to be successful, the leader must be the one who sets the example. So
from my first round of experience, I still remember how we used to work together and on Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays
when we have electronic fairs (clients electronic fairs), and youll always be there and you always make sure you
were there with us and I think you really did model that to me.
*JOANNE PRAISES AMANDA WHOOOOOO BEST INTERN IVE EVER HAD!!!!*
Amanda: I also think another thing that a good leader is able to do and that youve trained us well in is how to
handle stress. Cus you know when we were working together, you told me again that not everyone can do PR, not
only must you have talent for it, the personality, the likeability but you must be able to handle stress so how do you
build that is able to handle stress?
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J oanne: Okay, I always tell my team money is not everything. If you got a bad client, we will do our best for the
client but we do not allow our client to really bully us and like demean us. So, the stress level always comes when
you feel youre in a job that you cant walk out of it. I can tell that stress is not from workload, it is from workload but
politics and human relationships, backstabbing I think those kind of things create more a lot more stress right, so I do
not allow politics in my firm, to the best of our ability because we are a boutique firm we could do that but for bigger
firms, it is a bit difficult. The other thing that I feel that is very important is that kind of help my staff de-stress is if the
client is very bad and really not understanding, we move them out. We keep the good clients, those who really
appreciate our work, I think that makes a lot of difference. The other thing is always having more staff, so that
everybody does their work and not overwork themselves. It is not possible that there will be no stress. I always tell my
team that they can always come back home and share as we are like family. We can always discuss how to settle it.
I think thats the most important thing, they need somebody to back them up, to support them and feel that if Im
bullied by my client or by someone, I have my bosses backing, to tell them do not be afraid, I am there with you. That
is a very important lesson I learnt. I think if they feel that they always have someone to fall back on, that is priceless, i t
is not the money. I feel that that is very important and I try to give it to whoever that is in my company, whatever the
persons level is if I can. But that works for a smaller firm, if it is a bigger firm, I think you need that departments
manager to be able to like stand up.
Amanda: But I think sometimes we do get ourselves in situations where because our team is rather small, maybe
sometimes one or two of us, lets say me and Li Qing, were newer, how do you like manage to train us to be at the
state where we are not easily stressed even when we are dealing things on our own and we do report to you and our
managers. How do you train us to not be afraid and not stressed up?
J oanne: I think you guys are stressed to a certain extent. But I think we do plan for it. Basically when we first start
off, we will have a mentor to take care of you guys and we do not chuck work to you so the mentor will mentor you
over a few months so you get used to it. The difficult work will be done by me and the less difficult work will be done
by your mentor where your mentor will guide you how to do it. So there is the system of filtering down the work, so
you will know how to do it. I think in every single firm you need that. That guidance is very important so they know
what to do. I think a company to a large extent, is a little bit like a family. The bosses are like the parents dad and
mum so they set the example, they set the culture. You will see that whatever the firms culture is like and its staff is
very reflective of the bosses. I have worked with a lot of companies and its always true, when a boss is very fierce,
everyday just wallops every single staff out there, you will see that the middle managers will tend to do the same and
there it goes or, the boss likes to play a lot of politics between the people, you will see that the employees will be like
that as well because the firm, the culture are what the boss sets to be. It is the leaders vision, how they mould their
people. To put it in the simplest words, it is like a family. For the youngest staff, they are like the babies, so they will
get the slightly older siblings to teach them so that there is some cushioning and I think that is good because
sometimes for me, I cant mentor her- Amanda directly because as a parent sometimes I dont exactly know the
difficulties you face but your siblings can empathize, they know that it is quite difficult as they started out like that too
so it is much easier to get someone a little bit senior to mentor you or the younger ones.
ENDS WITH COME COME EAT HEHE! :P
PART II
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Shawn: You want your employees to communicate with you and voice out any opinions to you, so how do you
encourage them to speak up? As some employees may be very quiet, theyll just go about their own work and they
wont share their problems
J oanne: Typically I think its very difficult for them to share directly with me, I know that. So I get their managers to
speak to them on what they need and why theyre stressed, I find that much easier. Because if they ask me directly, I
think a lot of people would feel a lot of pressure and (with the managers) they dont. So you need to have very good
middle management to actually help you oversee the team. Because as the leader you cant manage everyone
directly, it works tier-by-tier. So I groom my middle managers, and my middle managers groom the team. Its a
pyramid system.
Amanda: But one thing that I realised too, that even though we have got very strong middle management, you also
have a direct relationship with everyone that steps into the company. So every time there is a new addition you will
always make sure that you know this person, so that when the time comes for you to mentor them you can tell them
that I think you should be doing this instead of that and they would be more receptive to you. So how do you go
about building relationships with your staff when you know that some of those that come a bit later might be a bit
intimidated of (by?) you, how do you build relationships then?
J oanne: Actually I dont know whether Im very good with that because Im (yeah). I think spending time is
important, but we lack that. So I think spending time and whenever you have free time together, I think always
communicate. And I always tell them, I mean this is what every single, I wont call them staff, my teammates that
work together. You can find a job anywhere, you know? Money is not the problem, right? I mean, I think overall we
pay much better. I always believe in paying more than whatever the market pays, because I feel that money is If
youd like to draw the best people, let money not be an issue. I mean thats the first thing that I want to do. I do not, I
think everybody who comes and works at our firm knows that money is not the issue. Bonus is not the issue also. So
that is not a problem. Erm What I think we need (and) I often do, is to let them know that (what is) the most
important thing in life is happiness. It sounds very simple, but its actually very important. Because if you feel very
upset or unhappy in your job, and you just keep quiet about it. I think I cant help you. But if you speak up and tell me
I like this part of the job and I dont like this part of the job, its easier for your manager or your boss to help you. And
you can be very open about it, because if you dont speak up nobody can help you. I could only do that. I must say
Im not exactly very good. I will communicate with everybody but because Im so busy, so I want to thank my middle
managers for (like) really mentoring the team. Its not only me. Basically we are all teammates. I am just a conductor,
I really cant do everything by myself.
Amanda: So, I still remember when we first started, Priscilla and you both told me that PR is a very people-person
job. And I think in every business, in every corporation, its all about people. So, you were sharing about how you
managed to build effective communications within the team. So how did you learn how to communicate effectively.
What taught you that?
J oanne: I think for me Im born with it. I mean, honestly, different people have different gifts but I think that
communicating with people is one of the gifts that Im grateful that Im blessed with. I think I could communicate, not
with every single one, but (with) most people. So, these are my rules. If I communicate with someone that likes me,
its easy. So what becomes difficult is when I communicate with someone who (doesnt) like me. So what do I do,
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right? Or someone who really lays a trap down and I drop down. Many, many times Ive communicated with people
like that. So my strategy towards such people is not to hate them. Okay maybe because Im Buddhist, I always
believe that when this person (does) that to you, somewhere at the back of their head when they go to sleep that
night they dont feel very good. I mean thats what I think. And it makes me a happier person to actually feel that
(okay), What would I do?, I would actually treat them better (you know). I mean, I try to understand. When people do
that to you, they (a) have an agenda because they do that so that they want something, so what is that thing that they
want and I am in the way usually to them getting their thing. So Ill get out of the way, so that they can get whatever
they want (okay). And the other reason why they do that is because they are very unhappy with their own lives, in one
way or another. So I try to understand which part of their lives theyre unhappy with and empathize with them. But
there are some people that (like) really theyre just crazy (there are) then Ill just walk away. Okay, so thats what Ill
do. I will never be very vengeful (to) take revenge. I dont do that, and thats very unhealthy (you know). You guys will
all grow up and one day you will meet with a lot of unhappiness in work life with people. I always (always) tell my
team and myself, Lets not be vengeful. Lets not have revenge. Lets not have hatred. I mean, its just work. (You
know) If you could do, you do more with each other. If you cant get along, (many many times, I mean not many
times) a couple of times I have told clients, You know, why dont we just be friends? Lets not be client and Lets
not have that relationship. Lets just be friends! And I think when I said that to a couple of them when I have that
problem, I think they didnt realise that whatever they had been doing has been very hurtful towards us. So I think that
sometimes resolves the problem, not often, But I always feel that when this person treats you badly or at the spur of
the moment you lose your temper towards a person, I will always apologise because I feel that it is not about face.
Because (you do not want to) one more friends is definitely better than one more enemy. I do not need any
enemies in my life (yeah so). I dont get more money for being enemies with a lot of people. You know, in Chinese
its . And (good karma) good deeds breed good karma, and being good towards every single one always
brings you returns for sure. That I advocate and live by.
Amanda: So like, for example, I think maybe youve come to Brand Cellar Im sure youve had staff under you that
(you know maybe) were difficult to work with. Lets not talk about (maybe) clients but how about your own staff? Like
if they are difficult to work with, and like you feel like Oh, I cant get through to this person, Im sure youve dealt with
situations like that?
J oanne: Erm I think, definitely there are situations where both parties come out together. So I always give that
person some time to try. And I will always tell them, Okay this is what I like about you (and) this is the part that I dont
like about you. Which (is not to say) that I dont like it, in this job you cannot have these traits. And then you think
about it. So if I say it a few times and that recurs, I realize after a while they will leave and its just a peaceful and
theres no... (you know) we will just part and after that we are still friends. Its just that I think this person is better off
working somewhere else rather than working for me and thats that.
Amanda: So communications are very open between you and this person. Thats why they are able to see it, right?
J oanne: Yes, yes. And I think in Singapore, especially nowadays, it is very easy for everybody to find a job. So you
dont need to have a lot of reasons or politics when you leave a firm, because if you can you work together. If you
cant work well with each other, I always tell every single of my teammates, my friends, part gracefully. Meaning you
give your boss sufficient notice, you feel good when you go back you sleep, you feel good because Singapore is very
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small. Its very often you will meet your ex-employer in one way or another. So if you part properly, like all my old
staff, they would put my name in their review. Because if you part properly, its just because of certain reasons we
cant work together. But if you part very nastily, or you start telling a lot of lies, what goes around will come around.
And its unnecessary, you know. I dont know, you know. I find that unnecessary.
Amanda: Okay. So like, other than communicating with people that are difficult to communicate with. Im sure there
are times where, you know, you pass along a message and then things dont get done but they get done in the
opposite direction from what you actually intended. So, how do you deal with a situation like that?
J oanne: I often blow up. I dont have the best of tempers, I think you know that. That is my shortcoming which Im
not shy to tell my team about because everybody has their weakness and that is my weakness. So what we have to
do when you face with such a problem is first damage control. Think of the worst possible scenario, make sure you
are able to face it and then after that work on fixing the problem. Only after you fix the problem do you talk to that
person on what not to do next time. I think thats the only step to it. But I think everybody has to understand that its
not personal, its just work.
Amanda: So if your clients are involved in this series of events where instructions get done wrongly. How do you
account to them?
J oanne: Apologise lor. You must always own up, there is no hiding. Sometimes I feel that when there is hiding it
makes it more stressful. So you just say Im sorry because people make mistakes. We try our best not to make the
mistake and were sorry. Theres no way out la, we just apologise.
Shawn: So besides effective communications, what do you think are some of the reasons for your teams success?
J oanne: I dont know whether we are a success but I must say that what matters to me and the team is (that)
everybody is happy and they feel that they are growing. I dont think that we are like A successful but we are
grateful that, I think for the past 8 years all the clients came by referral. We didnt really go out to pitch for clients and I
think that is because of teamwork. But we have our difficulties internally for sure. We have people leaving us and we
have to groom new people, we have clients that are not as understanding and we have to move on to new clients.
Cost is getting higher so its difficult to run a business because when you need to hire very good people you need to
pay more but it doesnt mean that you can charge higher fees sometimes because the economy is not that good. So,
these are some of the challenges we face as well.
Amanda: You know you were saying its really about keeping your staff happy and (like) letting them have a sense
that they are growing in the business. So how do you think are some of the ways that you have encouraged
employee satisfaction. For your team to feel loyal to the team and not just see it as a job, like when Im not happy Im
out.
J oanne: I dont know, I cannot answer on their behalf because I dont know if they are happy. I think you (Amanda)
know better than me whether they are happy but the only thing I can do is to continually try my best to grow the
revenue so that I can pay everyone more. Thats my job. I always feel that being a good leader, you have to do what
you need to map out a career for each and every staff and pay them more, rewarding them monetarily and I think
when they grow up they get rewarded and when they do good they definitely need to be given a pat on the shoulder.
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When they have a problem, definitely address that. So its all these that add(s) up together, I mean theres no magic
solution. Every day is a new day so we have to fight every single day. I mean, its very difficult being an entrepreneur
in Singapore (I feel its very difficult). We are faced with high costs, in fact Ive met a lot of entrepreneurs and I can tell
you nowadays all the bosses feel like theyre working for their staff. They do not dare to say a lot of things because
they are afraid of offending their staff and because its very difficult to find manpower. This is Singapores problem,
because we are short of staff. Yes, yes that is the general problem with Singapore (quality). So when you have the
good staff then you need the chemistry, you need the good teammates. And its not just about you as a person, the
person must be able to work with the rest of the team as well. And Ive made a lot of mistakes in the past, Ive
realised. Im a perfectionist and when some little thing is not done right, I will really lose it and sometimes be hard on
the staff which (is also) my teammate and I think that gives them a lot of pressure. I feel badly about it and I know that
although after that Ill go and tell them Eh you know ah, I just have a bad temper, I cant really do that so that is my
problem. I think recognizing your own mistake, I dont know if it is helpful for them but I think they recognize that Oh,
at least my manager or boss is not crazy, she knows that she has got this weakness. I dont know, I dont know
Maybe that helps, I dont know. But its difficult to change ones character, its just like how my daughter gets scolded
by me all the time. But I try to change that part of me, because I realise that nowadays a leader must not instil fear. A
leader must instil respect and motivate to want to work harder, and want to work towards their goal. So I think I
changed, I try to change my leadership style a little bit? I think people nowadays do not work well with pressure or
negative reinforcement. Its because of the way we grew up and I will often reflect on how I treat people and try to
change la. Not there yet, but I always try to change myself so that the team and the people around me can become
better.
Amanda: The thing Ive realised also is that the staff that have been under you have been working with you for a
long time, maybe like 3-4 years. And I think one of the reasons why people stay in the job is not cause they like what
they are doing, but also because of the leadership. You know, because they feel that they can work well with the
leader and they feel that they are respected. So how do you show your staff that you believe in them and that (you
want), you think that they can do better.
J oanne: Okay I think its feelings, leadership and to build a sense of belonging. I always tell myself, If one day I
dont make money, Ill make sure that they have rice on the table before I have any food on my table. I think for them
before I think for myself, most of the time when I do certain things and I will communicate them with them. I think
through our actions and our experiences they understand that. And I try to, if I can, I will sacrifice so that things are
easier for them. I think when I do that then they reciprocate, they will do it (like) for me as well. Maybe thats one way,
but its not perfect la. I still have people leaving; thats natural because you need people to leave for new people to
come on-board. But I think ours is a very new style of management, we believe in working independently, we do not
need our staff (I dont know if Amanda has told you) to go to the office sit there at 9 oclock and leave at 6 oclock.
Thats not our job, okay? Our job is that we are tasked with whatever things, I will give you the best IT equipment. We
will get all the Apple (products), I mean we are the coolest company. All of us get the latest iPhone Apple whatever all
funded by the company and you can go and work by the beach and a bar, I dont care. You just get your work done.
And Im not the kind of boss that calls you at 8:30 (and goes) Hello, where are you ah? Actually Im also sleeping
myself. So you just get your work done and I think this new age kind of management, some people like it. But we do
lose people because of it, because there are some of our staff that likes working in an office. They dont feel secure.
They feel that I like to go to an office where there are colleagues, sit down, so yeah those kinds of people they will
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leave us. But for people who like to grow, who like to think, who like to (like) do their own thing, then they like this kind
of environment because its very fluid and the sky is the limit. Because even the way we pay our staff is by the work
done. So we have colleagues coming in who get a 20-50 percent pay jump if they can do very well. You know, if they
can do well just let them. Youll fly at your own pace, basically. If you think that you can fly very high, please do. We
are more than happy to pay you so that you can go fly. You are your own obstacle. If theres nothing stopping you,
please just soar and Ill be more than happy. But it takes a lot of independence and motivation, because I know there
are times when I dont see this person and this person can (could) be sleeping for three hours in the afternoon.
Actually I wouldnt know, I mean as long as you deliver your work and dont get your teammates in trouble, show up
for meetings and deliver the work during the meetings you could plan your time in whatever way (you want). So thats
how our job is, very fluid but its going to get more difficult I feel as the team gets bigger.
Amanda: Why is that so though? Why do you think a smaller team works better?
J oanne: I think for our kind of industry its about quality, so when the team grows big it must be at the point where
the middle management is very strong to guide their teammates then we can grow very big because thats when they
can get the guidance and grow. But the problem is that if the feeling, what I mean is, if the middle managers are not
strong; they ill-treat their team or dont guide their team or lead their team well thats when the client would face a
problem because it would reflect in the meetings and the quality. So for our kind of job, of course Im the overall QC
queen so I would be in every single (if not) most of the meetings. I think our kind of work, its difficult to grow very big.
Its a bit difficult.
Amanda: Unless you manage to raise your middle management fast enough. Then whenever there are new people
coming in they are sufficiently groomed and taught by the middle management?
J oanne: Yes, thats the difficulty of our job. Because clients look for quality at the end of the day. And I mean thats
nothing to do with leadership, because at the end of the day the client will need a brain, a 20-year-old experienced
brain to sit there and listen and the brain can only be at so many places within a week so I think that is the challenge
that we face.
Shawn: So would you ever let your team get that big? Due to the nature of the job.
J oanne: I dont know you know, I started out alone. Today I think we are about 10, I dont really count, 9-10 (strong).
I dont know, if we get more business (and) the middle managers grow its possible. Thats how our structure works,
for example our middle managers (one of them), shes got a baby so she did tell me that I want to take it at this pace
for a while, when Im ready to go again Ill tell you. So its okay la! Then well just stop there and let her feel
comfortable. And if theres more Ill load onto someone else who wants to do (the job). So it really depends, you
know? Its not the kind of business where I want to chart 10 years and Because its a people business, you have to
keep your good people and you have to know the pace that they are comfortable with. If not, they are going to leave
and that is a bigger problem for me. For me, honestly money is important but money is not everything. I wont do
anything for money, you know? Will I take up a competitive client and betray my (other) client? No I will not do that.
Will I serve a nasty client? No I will not do that. Will I work my staff to death in order to make more money? No I dont
want to do that. So there are a lot of things I dont want to do, Im not an MNC la. Which is fine, by my standards but
thats why I say there are many styles of leadership but Im the kind of leader where I want a certain kind of people
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when I do the interview and if you find my style unsuitable There are some people who like to go for leaders who
are like Genghis Khan (and) conquer the world. Really, Im no Genghis Khan. I believe in happiness more than
money, thats me. Thats my own mission and my vision in life.
Amanda: In addition to that, what are some of your principles? Cause I feel that a leaders principles would result in
attracting people who think along the same wavelength and believe in the same kinds of things. So what do you think
are some of the principles other than happiness takes precedence over money?
J oanne: Being loyal, being driven and always giving your best; just a few. Loyalty why? Because in our industry, I
mean it happens but if your teammates take your client and run away that is a big problem so loyalty for sure. Being
driven yes, because if you are driven you are willing to have the drive to work hard if not your clients will definitely
leave. Even if you have very pretty staff, I always tell my clients that we are not . Meaning that we work
hard, but we dont have meals with the client or go for parties with them. Go drink with them, go karaoke no, thats not
in your JD. Not required, we are we do our work and thats that. And of course, last but not least is doing your
best. You might not be the best of whatever but my role is to also push you to try to do your best because sometimes
you have that inertia to move so I will push you. It might not be pleasant but I will push you. And I think a lot of them
have done it. For example, Rachel, I think Rachel has worked under me for 6 years. Every person in their lives will
meet a bottleneck. I think this colleague of mine, she had a difficult client that she was very scared (of) and she
invested a lot of time to serve and a lot of tears and a lot of mental capacity/anguish to serve that client because that
client was very difficult on her. So Im glad that, I mean that was a good experience (for her). When she was doing it,
she didnt see it you know? That actually she was building up her character and her capability. Because being on
your toes all the time, being scared, being worried and crying and all those But she didnt say I quit, she just
persevered. But now I could see that her level of understanding and her work is at a different level because its just
like studies and doing difficult things in your life. When you do things that are pushing on your limits, you are actually
growing. If youre doing things where youre feeling very comfortable, that is a problem because you are not thinking.
You are just not optimizing your capability, so my last point about every single person is (that) you must always push
your personal limits and there is always this wall or this glass ceiling that is just something you could break and then
move to the next level if you want to do it. I will help you but there are risks. The risk is that sometimes when my
teammates cannot take it they leave. But if they break through, I really think you are a different person that you never
thought you are able to be.
Amanda: So how would you push your staff, maybe you could give us an example of how you enable them to do
difficult stuff and tasks.
J oanne: I dont know, you know. I mean everybody is given the task that Im given and I have to answer back to the
client. So I ask them to do la, then if they cannot do then I pick up the pieces and do then after that we just present
that to the client, whatever we could come up with. And I think support and guidance is very important, its just like
when this person is running they feel like they cannot run anymore. I think me and the middle manager will keep
telling them You can do it, try. Run that little bit more, just try. Just run a little bit more. And you tell them how to run.
Its like you know use your arms a little bit, or you give them tips to guide them. I mean thats all we could do, I mean
if I gave you an analogy. The rest is, they have to run themselves.
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Shawn: In your years in the industry right, you mentioned about having to change your style to suit different
situations. So have there been any moments where you regret, like, Oh I didnt change fast enough, then I could not
salvage the situation?
J oanne: Of course, of course. Many, many situations. Like what I said, my temper is not very good. So I think there
are times when something very important has to be done, and I lost it and I lost very good people. So thats a pity,
because sometimes when you lose your temper or you lose that moment not everybody can understand and come
back and say Oh, its okay. Some people can but some people cant. So definitely thats one of the problems and I
think especially when I work with partners. I think being a woman leader, I think men are less emotional. Women tend
to be more emotional which is a problem, so we need to learn how to think without feelings. I think that is my
challenge always, because its what is holding me back. And to cut off when theres very nasty people, draw a line
and tell yourself fine, lets move on. So those are the parts that I think I regret but life is not perfect so dont badger
yourself too much. So treasure the good things and leave alone the bad.
Amanda: So from what I understand (what) youre trying to share with us is that maybe sometimes mistakes that we
make or things we didnt do, theyre not so much things in itself but more of (like) our emotions taking over and
leading us to do things where were like Oops I think maybe I shouldnt have done that.
J oanne: Yes, I think female leaders are more prone to such mistakes. But I think the most important thing to do is to
(always) listen which is the other problem I have. I like to listen but I dont have time. So listening and understanding
helps a lot. As a leader you should always listen and understand, it helps a lot but it also depends on whether the
other person can tell you truthfully how they feel. It is like a two-way-traffic. But I think its a challenge that everybody
faces, not just me. But Ill encourage you guys, youre all starting out in your career. Having the right attitude and
pushing yourself, and loyalty. If you have these three capabilities, keep it and you will do well whatever industry you
go to. Even if its Char Kway Teow, you might be a Mechanic, a small Telemarketer, sales, be the best you could be. I
mean, thats what I encourage you all to do. Because its not about what you do its about personal satisfaction and
actually doing your best. Push yourself. I would say that, I push myself to the limit. I dare to say. Every single day.
Optimising your potential, I think thats very important. Whatever it might be, optimise it and you will feel that you
wont regret. You will feel that, Fine I have done my best. A lot of successful people that I see in life are like that.
They are multi-billionaires, they are smart but they optimise their potential. When theres an opportunity, they dont
wait. They dont sit on their laurels, they just do it and they are often not lazy. I think all these traits are and I always
believe you are what you dream to be, its very true. If you dream that you want to be a millionaire, then you take
steps. Unconsciously you would do that, you will take steps looking at how you want to be rich. If you want to be a
good leader, a lot of people would unconsciously take steps to read about leadership and become a good leader. So
really, you are what you dream to be. And being positive is just super important, just super super important. Even
when you have a bad day, I think as a leader I would say when you have a bad day yourself, the first person Ill go
talk to is not my husband; its my teammate. And I will share with them how I felt, and very often I think when I do that
they will share back with me how they feel. And then I think thats when you communicate, and then when you have a
good day you also go back to your teammates and share with them. I think thats one of the other important factor(s)
that we have in our firm.
Amanda: Okay I think we are done, thank you so much for your time!