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Milindapaha
The Questions of King Milinda
Volume I
The Eighteenth Book of the Khuddaka Nikya

mtik
Preamble
Division I: bhirakath - Background history
pubbayogdi - Connections in the past

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8

Division II:
Chapter 1: mahvagga - The great chapter
Chapter 2: addhnavagga - The long journey
Chapter 3: vicravagga - Discursive thoughts

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70
89

Division III:
Chapter 4: nibbnavagga - The deathless realm
Chapter 5: buddhavagga - Pertaining to the Buddha
Chapter 6: sativagga - On mindfulness
Chapter 7: ar|padhammavavatthnavagga On mental phenomena
milindapahapucchvisajjan - Questions of
King Milinda and answers thereof

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115
128
136

Division IV: meakapaha - Question on dilemmas

Chapter 1: iddhibalavagga - On spiritual and
supernatural powers
Chapter 2: abhejjavagga - On schism
Chapter 3: pamitavagga - On bowing
Chapter 4: sabbautaavagga - On omniscience
Chapter 5: santhavavagga - On companionship

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341

Preamble
King Milinda, sovereign of the Yonakas,
residing in the great city of Sgala, met with
the Venerable Ngasena on many appointed
occasions. At these meetings, he questioned a
great many much-accepted teachings of the
Buddha and the Venerable Ngasena was able
to put forth answers that clearly show the real intent of the
teachings or discourses, thereby clearing seeming doubts and
confusion regarding the Buddhas dhamma. The answers tendered
by the Venerable Ngasena were clear and well directed to
remove the kings doubts. In many instances, the answers further
elucidated the point in question by suppositions and counter
questioning. The significance throughout the entire Milindapaha
are the answers given by the Venerable Ngasena to emphasise
the reality and functionability of the Buddhas Teaching.
The events recorded herein originate in the country of Yonakas in
a prominent city called Sgala which is a great trading centre of
the people of Sgala. This city has many rivers, streams, hills and
many delightful quarters spread over its landscape. It is also
replete with parks, gardens, groves, lakes, reservoirs and ponds. It
is also full of delights associated with rivers, mountains, and a
wooded country. It is a city planned and built by people gifted
with knowledge and experience. It is a well fortified city, where
all forms of commerce thrive. Its people are well educated and
much advanced as to the arts and culture. It is also associated
with various sects of ascetic practice, hermits and recluses.
The well thought out and cleverly presented questions by King
Milinda and the adept answers by the Venerable Ngasena are the
fruit of deeds they have sowed in a previous life.

The Historical King Menander

The 30-year rule of Menander was the high point of Indus Greek
rule in Gandhara. Menander established the cultural and
administrative parameters for Indus Greek rule in this region.
Menanders policies marked a major shift from the traditional
Greek colonial attitudes and the policies of keeping at a distance
the local populace. The close rapport he established with the
people he ruled is reflected in a number of revolutionary steps
taken during his rule.
Menander combined within himself the qualities of a great
conqueror, an intellectual with a broad range of interests, and a
statesman of the highest order. This extraordinary combination
enabled Menander to play an important role in putting Greater
Gandhara on the path to be a great civilisation. As a conqueror,
Menander had already distinguished himself during the rule of his
uncle, Demetrius. When he became king of Greater Gandhara in
165 B.C., Menanders spectacular run of successes on the
battlefronts continued.
Through these conquests, Menander established his control over a
vast region, which included the valleys of the Kabul and Swat
Rivers, Taxila Region, parts of Punjab east of the Jhelum,
Kashmir and the Hindu Kush region around Kabul and Kapisa.
His achievements on the battlefield also found recognition in the
writings of Apollodorus of Artemila, a Greek historian who was a
contemporary of Menander. For the governance of such a vast
region, Menander maintained his administrative base in more than
one city.

According to the Milindapaha, the capital of Menanders

kingdom was Sgala at the time when Menanders meeting with
the Buddhist monk Ngasena took place. (Some scholars identify
ancient Sgala with the modern city of Sialkot.)
Menanders intellectual credentials are established on the basis of
his discussions with the Buddhist monk Ngasena on religion and
philosophy. Questions of Milinda describes Menander as
learned, eloquent, wise and able. He possessed knowledge of the
holy tradition and secular law, systems of philosophy, arithmetic,
medicine, astronomy and poetry. As a disputant he was
unequalled; the acknowledged superior of all the various schools
of thought.
The extent of Menanders kingdom is indicated by the large
number of Menanders coins found from all these sites.
With regard to Menanders more worldly attributes: As in
wisdom, so in strength of body, swiftness and valor, there was
none equal to Milinda in all of India.
As a statesman par excellence Menander gave up traditional
Greek attitudes of looking down upon the conquered people. He
took bold initiatives to form a sound working relationship with the
Buddhist establishments and through these, established a close
rapport with the people of Greater Gandhara. As a result of these
wise policies Menander was able to maintain relative peace and
stability in the region throughout his 30-year rule.
The cultural and administrative parameters of rule in Gandhara
established by Menander became a tradition which was strictly
followed by the Hellenistic Saka, Parthian and Kushan regimes
during the next six centuries.

This pattern of governance was the single most important factor

in the emergence of the Gandhara Civilisation.
Menander is said to have adopted the Buddhist faith. The
discussions of Menander with the Buddhist monk Ngasena had a
profound influence on him.
A translation of the text The Questions of King Milinda by
T.W. Rhys Davids indicates that after these discussions, Menander
decided to give up his worldly life and became a Buddhist monk.
(Menander abdicated in favour of his son Strato-I. Menanders
wife Agathoklea served as regent until Strato became old enough
to shoulder the responsibilities of the Indus Greek kingdom.) For
his services to Buddhism, Menander is regarded at par with two
other great rulers of Gandhara - Asoka and Kanishka.
Menanders reign was an exceptional period during the rule of the
Indus Greeks. Except for the period when Menander was king, the
political conditions remained unstable in Gandhara. Maintaining
unity among their ranks was not in the character of the
Bactrian/Indus Greeks. One reason for this was that they never
quite got over their ethnic affiliations. There always remained a
wide gulf between the Macedonians and the Greeks; but there
were also many other ethnic divisions.
Menander did not leave behind a successor who could
automatically step into his shoes. Menander died in 130 B.C.

Milindapaha
Division I
bhirakath
Background history

matika
pubbayogdi: Connections in the past

In the period of Kassapa Buddha ssana

Genesis
Question to the first ascetic
Question to the second ascetic
Entreaties to Mahsena
Absence of the Venerable Rohaa
The birth of Ngasena
Ngasenas pursuit of learning
Meeting the Venerable Rohaa
Ngasena as a novice
Ngasenas punishment
Venerable Ngasena moved
Entering Sgala
King Milinda questions the Venerable yupla
Meeting between Milinda and Ngasena

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In the period of Kassapa Buddha ssana

A great number of bhikkh| were then living in a monastery close
to the river Ganges. There the community of bhikkh|, conscious
of their moral duties and spiritual obligations rose early in the
morning and, taking the long-handled brooms, would mindfully
sweep out the monastery grounds and gather the litter.
On one of these occasions, a bhikkhu instructed a novice: Come,
novice, take these sweepings away and get rid of them. The
young novice, pretending not to hear, walked away. On being
instructed a second and a third time, he still kept on walking
away. Angered by the obvious disobedience of the novice, the
bhikkhu struck him with the broomstick.
At this and not daring to disobey any further, the novice carried
out the bhikkhus instructions; shedding tears at the same time, he
was moved to make a deep felt aspiration: By reason of this
meritorious act of cleaning out the litter, may I, in each rebirth be
endowed with as much influence as that emanating from the midday sun, till my attainment of nibbna.
When he had completed his duties, he went to the banks of the
Ganges. There, on observing the strong current of the Ganges, he
made another aspiration: By the successful completion of this
meritorious task, may I, in each rebirth possess the power of
saying the right thing, and saying it instantly under any
circumstance that may arise, carrying all before me like this
mighty current, till my attainment of nibbna.
The bhikkhu, replaced the broom and, too, went to the river bank.
There he overheard the novice making the second of his two
aspirations and he reasoned thus: This novice whom I set to task,
goes to the extent of solemnly affirming his aspiration. Why
should I not make my aspiration, too?

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With these thoughts he affirmed: If this novice, on the ground of

such an act of merit, which afterall originated from me, can
aspire as such, I, too, aspire that in each rebirth, may I be ready
in saying the right thing at once, and especially have the power of
solving each problem this young man may put forth carrying
all before me like this mighty current, till my final attainment of
nibbna.
In the course of aeons wandering from one rebirth to another in
the abodes of gods and men, both the bhikkhu and the novice
while away this immense stretch of time intervening between the
Kassapa Buddha and the Gotama Buddha.
Thereafter, the Buddha Gotama declared these words, firmly
predicting their future potentialities just as He did in the case of
the Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa Thera: Five hundred years
after I have passed away will these two reappear and the vinaya,
suttanta and the abhidhamma will be discussed by them through
questions and answers.
Genesis
Of these two people, the novice became King Milinda. He was
wise and learned in many sciences and possessed of great
intellect. He was also a careful administrator and he acted
conscientiously in all matters concerning ceremonies. Many were
the arts he had mastered: the revealed traditions, secular lore,
philosophies, accountancy, music, medicine, the four Vedas,
logic, spells, the art of warfare, and many other arts.
He was a disputant unequalled and was pre-eminent among the
founders of schools of thought. In point of intelligence, in quickwittedness, in valour and in wisdom, no one was found equal to
King Milinda throughout the whole of India.

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He was rich and possessed of great wealth and resources. He had

hosts of armies and troopers mounted on mighty war elephants.
Now one day, King Milinda desiring to review his great army,
went out of the city of Sgala and inspected his army on parade.
At the end of the ceremony, the king who was fond of holding
conversations and keen to discuss with those who were learned
and witty with their disputations, looked up to ascertain the time
of the day and enquired of his ministers.
There is, O ministers, still time to spare. How shall we while it
away? Let us now go back to the city. Possibly there is a samaa
or brhmaa who has a following of bhikkh| of a sect of which
he was the founder and leader and who must have claimed
himself to be a supremely enlightened Buddha, worthy of the
highest veneration. Is there anyone capable of holding discussions
with me and be able to clear away my doubts and dilemmas? To
such a learned person we should approach.
Thereupon the 500 Yonaka noblemen who were ministers said to
King Milinda: There are only some local ascetics, your Majesty
who are leaders of their own sects; two* of whom are universally
acclaimed as virtuous men. Turn your footsteps, your Majesty, to
these men.

[*the commentary states that these were the descendents of the ascetics
in the Buddhas time: Pura Kassapa and Makkhali Gosla].

Question to the first ascetic

So King Milinda, attended by the 500 Yonaka noblemen, mounted
the splendid royal carriage drawn by his noble horses and went
out to the dwelling place of the first acclaimed ascetic. Upon
arriving, he exchanged cordial greetings with the ascetic. Having
thus exchanged greetings, the king took his seat at a suitable spot
and asked: What, O Venerable, is it that protects the world?

12

The earth, O King, is what protects the world!

But, Venerable, if it be the earth that protects the world, how is
it that the beings that go to the great avci hell go beyond the
sphere of the earth and fall into it?
When King Milinda counter-questioned in reply, the ascetic could
neither advance nor defend his argument, and there he sat face
downcast, head hanging and kept silent in a dejected manner.
Question to the second ascetic
Thereafter King Milinda visited the second ascetic and queried:
Are there, Venerable, wholesome actions and unwholesome
actions? Are there good fruits and evil fruits?
There are, O King, neither wholesome and unwholesome actions
nor good and evil fruits. The members of the ruling class in this
world, when they move to the other world, will again become
members of the ruling class only. Those who are Brahmins,
merchants, farmers, or of the poor class such as menial workers
will again become Brahmins, merchants, farmers, or of the poor
class such as menial workers. What then is the use of wholesome
and unwholesome actions?
If, O Venerable, the members of the ruling class, the Brahmins,
merchants, farmers, or of the poor class such as menial workers
in this world will, in the next world, again become members of
the respective class of their previous lives, and if there is no
necessity for performing wholesome and unwholesome actions,
then those who are here in this world, have a hand cut off, must
in the next world, become people with a hand cut off.
In like manner, those who have a foot cut off, must become
people with a foot cut off; those who have had both hand and
foot cut off must become people with both hand and foot cut off.

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Those who have had a ear cut off, must become people with a ear
cut off; those who have had a nose cut off, must become people
with a nose cut off; and those who have had both ear and nose
cut off must become people with both ear and nose cut off.
At this, the asetic spoke no more and kept silence. Thereupon
these thoughts occur to King Milinda.
Vain and empty is India! Indeed! Like chaff is India. There is
now no one, either samaa or brhmaa capable of disputing with
me, or capable of clearing away my doubts and dilemmas!
He then said to the ministers: Faultlessly bright and pleasurable
is the night; which samaa or brhmaa should we now approach
to question and who would be capable of disputing with me or
clearing away my doubts and dilemmas? The ministers fell
silent, unable to make a suitable respond.
In this manner, the king constantly seek learned people to test
their knowledge. Thus, whenever he hears that a learned recluse
or Brahmin had arrived, he would put his questions to them.
In all cases, being unable to satisfy the king with their answers,
they would depart and those who did not leave for some other
places, were all reduced to silence. Thus it was that, the city of
Sgala had for twelve long years been devoid of learned men.
Especially so harassed were the bhikkh| of the Buddhist order,
who for most part, left for the Himalayas.
Entreaties to Mahsena
At that time when the city of Sgala was devoid of learned men, a
great number of arahants were dwelling on the plateau of
Rakkhita of the Himalayas.

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The Venerable Assagutta, by means of his divine power of

hearing, heard the grumbling words of King Milinda. He
therefore convened a meeting of bhikkh| on the summit of
Yugandhara and enquired of the bhikkh|: Bhikkh|, is there any
one among you who is capable of clearing the dilemmas of this
King Milinda?
All the bhikkh| remained silent, even though the question was
repeated for the second and the third time. The Venerable
Assagutta then said: There is a celestial mansion called
Ketumat, lying east of the Vejayant Palace of the king of gods
in the Tvatisa heaven. There dwells the god Mahsena. I
believe he will be capable of disputing with King Milinda.
Hearing this, the arahants disappeared from Yugandhara and
appeared in the Tvatisa heaven. Seeing the arahants from a
distance, Sakka, approached the Venerable Assagutta and, after
making obeisance to the latter, stood respectfully on one side and
enquired of the Venerable Assagutta: Venerable One, great is
the number of bhikkh| that are here. I am a devout attendant and
at the service of the Noble Order. What can I do for you?
The Venerable Assagutta answered: O King, there is in the city
of Sgala, a king named Milinda. He is difficult to debate with,
difficult to subdue and is the acknowledged superior of all the
founder of various schools of thought. He pays visits to the
bhikkh| of the Noble Order and harass them by holding talks and
pitting against them, questions on matters of faith and belief.
King Sakka replied: That same King Milinda, Venerable One,
deceased from this abode of gods was reborn in the human
world. There dwells now in the celestial mansion called Ketumat,
a god by the name of Mahsena. This god, Mahsena is capable
of discussion with King Milinda. Let us entreat him to seek
rebirth in the world of men.

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Then Sakka, preceded by the Noble Order of bhikkh|, entered the

Ketumat mansion and, after fondly embracing Mahsena, said:
Friend Mahsena, the Noble Order of bhikkh| makes this
request of you, to be reborn into the world of men.
Mahsena said: I have, King Sakka, no desire for the world of
men which is steeped in greed, hatred and delusion, beset with
multifaceted rebirth producing activities. It is my desire to attain
to final emancipation after progressively going the round of
favourable rebirth in this realm of gods. When for the second
and the third time Sakka made the request, Mahsena again
replied in like manner.
When the request was refused for the third time, the Venerable
Assagutta addressed Mahsena and said: After making a survey
in this world of gods and men we could find none other than you,
O Mahsena, who would be able to discuss intelligently with
King Milinda. The whole Noble Order of bhikkh| earnestly
entreats you to seek rebirth in the world of men so that the ssana
of the Blessed One may prevail.
Thereupon Mahsena, inspired with the prospect of uplifting the
ssana of the Blessed One, gave his assurance: Venerable Ones,
I will seek rebirth in the world of men so that the Blessed Ones
ssana may prevail.
Absence of the Venerable Rohaa
Then those bhikkh| left Tvatisa heaven and returned to the
Himalayas. There the Venerable Assagutta asked: Is there any
bhikkhu from amongst the order, who is absent from the
assembly?

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Thereupon, a certain bhikkhu responded saying: Yes, there is, O

Venerable One. The Venerable Rohaa had, a week previously
gone to the Himalayas, entered on and is abiding in the attainment
of extinction (nirodha sampatti1).
Please send a messenger to that bhikkhu.
At that very moment, the Venerable Rohaa who had just
emerged from that attainment realised that the Noble Order was
indeed desiring his presence. He immediately appeared into the
presence of the arahants. And the Venerable Assagutta asked him:
Venerable Rohaa, do you not see the bounden duty of a
member of the Noble Order at a time when the sublime ssana of
the Blessed One is breaking up?
I admit my error, Venerable.
In that case, Venerable, will you make amends for your error?
How, Venerable, would you like me to make amends?
In Gajangala at the foot of the Himalayas there dwell a Brahmin
named Sonuttara, to whom shall be born a son, who shall be
named Ngasena. You must go to the house of that Brahmin for
alms-food for seven years and ten months; at the end of which
you must draw the boy away from a worldly life to become a
novice. When he does so, you will be free of your obligation.
The Venerable Rohaa agreed: Very well, Venerable; it shall be
as you have spoken.
The birth of Ngasena
Now Mahsena the god passed away from the world of the gods,
and was reborn in the womb of the wife of the Brahmin
Sonuttara. At the moment of his conception, three strange and
wonderful things took place: arms and weapons became all
ablaze, the tender grain became ripe in a moment, and there was a
great rain in the time of drought.

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The Venerable Rohaa went to that house for alms for seven
years and ten months from the day of Mahsena's rebirth, but
never once did he receive so much as a spoonful of boiled rice, or
a ladleful of sour gruel, or a greeting, or a stretching forth of the
joined hands, or any sort of veneration. Rather it was insults and
taunts that he had to bear; there was no one who so much as said:
Be so good, Sir, as to go on to the next house.
But when all that period had gone by, he one day happened to
have those very words addressed to him. On that day the
Brahmin, on his way back from his work in the fields, saw the
Elder and said: Well, bhikkhu, have you been to our place?
Yes, Brahmin, I have.
But did you get anything there?
Yes, Brahmin, I did.
And he was displeased at this, and went on home, and enquired of
his family: Did you give anything to that bhikkhu?
We gave him nothing, was the reply.
Thereupon the next day, the Brahmin, seated himself right in the
doorway, thinking: Today I'll put that bhikkhu to shame for
having told a lie.
The moment that the Elder in due course came up to the house
again, he said: Yesterday you said you had got something at my
house, having all the while got nothing! Is lying allowed by a
bhikkhu like you?
The Elder replied: Brahmin, for seven years and ten months no
one even went so far as to suggest politely that I should pass on
(aticchatha). Yesterday this courtesy was extended to me. It was
to that that I referred.

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The Brahmin thought to himself: If these men, at the mere

experience of a little courtesy, acknowledge in a public place, and
with thanks, that they have received an alms, what will they not
do if they really receive a gift!
He was much struck by this, and had an alms bestowed upon the
Elder from the rice and curry prepared for his own use, and
added furthermore: Every day you shall receive food of the
same kind.
Having observed the Elder as he visited the place from that day
onwards, and noticing how subdued was his demeanour, the
Brahmin became more and more pleased with the Elder, and
invited him to take his midday meal regularly. The Elder
consented; and daily from that time onwards, when he had
finished his meal, and was about to depart, he would discourse
some short passages or other from the words of the Buddha.
Ngasenas pursuit of learning
When Ngasena reached the age of seven, his father said: Dear
son, study the traditional learnings of the Brahmin community.
What, father, is the traditional learnings of the Brahmin
community?
The three Vedas, dear son, are learnings that should be pursued.
All other forms of learning are mere handicrafts.
Yes, I should like to learn them, father, assured Ngasena.
Souttara gave a thousand pieces as fee to a Brahmin teacher to
teach the Vedas to Ngasena. He further advised his son: Dear
son, begin learning the three Vedas.

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Young Ngasena, after a single recitation learnt all the three

Vedas by heart, could intone them correctly, had understood their
meaning, could fix the right place of each particular verse and
had grasped the mysteries they contained. He became wellconversant with philosophy, sciences and ethical speculations. He
also became well-versed with the science of reading the 32 bodily
marks of a mahpurisalakkhaa (characteristics of a great man).
Then the young Ngasena said to his father: Dear father, is there
anything more to be learned beyond these three?
Dear son, only these three are to be learned.
Next, the young Ngasena went to his teacher and put to him
searching questions and analysed the answers received by him. At
this time, being impelled by an urge caused by tendencies from
previous rebirths, he went to a place of solitude and here he set
himself to review the knowledge he had learned thus far.
In thus contemplating the quality of his acquired knowledge, he
was driven to lament in despair: These Vedas are mere chaff!
They are void of essence, empty are they of pith!
Meeting the Venerable Rohaa
The Venerable Rohaa, at the monastery, constantly directing his
attention towards Ngasena, became aware of his thoughts. He
robed himself and taking the alms-bowl, straight away appeared
at the Brahmin village of Gaja~gala. Ngasena, as he stood at the
doorway of his house saw the Venerable Rohaa coming from a
distance, and felt inspired and elated.
Thinking: This bhikkhu probably knows where the truth lies, he
approached the Venerable Rohaa and addressed him thus: What
is your name, Venerable?
They call me a samaa

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Why do they call you a samaa?

They call me a samaa because I banish unwholesome actions
and impurities.
Why do you not wear hair as others do?
A samaa shaves off his hair and beard in acknowledgement of
their suffering nature: ornamenting, grooming, shampooing,
oiling and adorning the hair with flowers, of using scents and
dyes, and possibily of contacting vermin, and the general
maintenance of the hair. When their hairs fall off, they feel
distressed and they fall into a deep reverie of grief.
And why are your garment not like those of other men?
Fine clothes are dependent on the five strands of sensual
pleasure. The bearings of the worldly householders, the
possessions and requisites of the worldly householders are
dependent on the five strands of sensual pleasure. The ill will and
dangers attendant on fine clothings are absent in regard to the
wearer of the yellow robe. That is the reason why my garment is
unlike those of other men.
With what kind of knowledge are you conversant?
I am conversant with the knowledge pertaining to the world, also
with the knowledge of the words of spell of the highest ideal that
transcends the world.
Could you teach me the words of spell of the highest ideal?
Yes, I could teach you.
Teach me then.
It is not the right time to do the teaching; we have come to the
village to collect alms food.

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Thereupon young Ngasena took the alms bowl of the Venerable

Rohaa and led him into the house, and with his own hand served
him with food, hard and soft, till the latter indicated that he had
enough. When he saw that the Venerable Rohaa had withdrawn
his hand from the bowl, he said: Now, Venerable, will you teach
me the words of spell?
Only when you have, with the free and untrammelled consent of
your parents, taken on the appearance of an ascetic just like me,
then can I teach the words of spell.
Ngasena as a novice
Ngasena went to his father and mother and said: Father and
mother, this samaa says he knows the words of spell of the
highest ideal that transcends the world, but that he cannot teach it
to anyone who has not entered the order. I should like to enter the
order and learn those words of spell.
His parents thought: Let our son learn the words of spell, even
at the cost of retiring from the world. For when he had learned it
he would come back again, and gave their consent. Proceed,
dear son, with your learning.
Thereupon, the Venerable Rohaa took Ngasena to the Vattaniya
monastery of Vijambha-vatthu hermitage; having spent a night
there, took him to Rakkhita plateau. There, in the midst of the
arahants, young Ngasena was admitted into the order as a
novice. As soon as he had been admitted into the order, Ngasena
reminded the Venerable Rohaa: Venerable, I have now adopted
your dress; now teach me those words of spell. The Venerable
Rohaa contemplated and saw that Ngasena was intelligent and
could master the abhidhamma piaka with ease; he gave his first
lesson in that.

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The novice Ngasena, after hearing it but once, knew by heart the
whole of the abhidhamma; that is to say:
1.

Dhammasa~ga or enumeration of phenomena, with the

matrix of the triads (tika-mtik) and dyads (duka-mtik)
and also with such states as are wholesome (kusaldhamm), unwholesome (akusal-dhamm) and neutral
(abykat-dhamm).

2.

Vibha~ga or the book of treatises on the 5 groups of

existence (khandha-vibha~ga).

3.

Dhtukath or discussion with reference to the elements,

in 14 chapters dealing with inclusion and non-inclusion.

4.

Puggala-paatti or description of individuals, making up

the discussions including the description on groups
(khandha paatti) and the description of bases (yatana
paatti).

5.

Kathvatthu or points of controversy, with its thousand

sections.

6.

Yamaka or the book of pairs.

7.

Pahna or the book of origination, with its 24 chapters on

causal relationships.

These will do, Venerable, you need not propound it again. That
will suffice for my being able to recite it. Then the Venerable
Ngasena went to the arahants and said: I should like, Venerable
Ones, to propound the whole of the treasury of the abhidhamma
piaka in full, arranging it under three headings: kusal-dhamm,
akusal-dhamm and abykat-dhamma. The arahants consented.
In 7 months, the Venerable Ngasena recited the 7 books of the
abhidhamma in full.

23

Ngasenas punishment
The next morning, the arahants ordained him as a bhikkhu.
(Ngasena was then only 20 years of age). The Venerable
Ngasena arranged his robe, and taking his bowl, accompanied
his teacher on his round for alms in the village. As he went along
behind his teacher, this thought arose in him: It was after all,
empty-headed and witless of my teacher to leave the rest of the
Blessed Ones word aside, and teach me the abhidhamma first.
The Venerable Rohana became aware of what was in the mind of
the Venerable Ngasena, and he said: That is an unworthy
reflection that you are making, Ngasena; it is not worthy of you
to think so.
Ngasena reflected: How wonderful that my teacher should be
able to know what I am thinking of! It would do well for me to
beg pardon of my teacher. He then said: Forgive me,
Venerable; I will never make such a reflection again.
I cannot forgive you simply on that promise. However, in the
city of Sgala, a king by the name of Milinda is reigning. He
constantly harasses the bhikkh| by holding talks and questioning
them on matters of faith and belief. When you have gone to that
city and engage that king in debate on the dhamma and you are
able to successfully put him onto the correct path of the sublime
ssana of the Blessed One, I will then have pardoned you.
Let alone a single monarch like Milinda, Venerable, let all the
kings of the whole of India come and question, and I will show
them the correct dhamma if only you will pardon me.
I cannot pardon you yet, insisted the Venerable Rohaa.
If such be the case, Venerable, under whose preceptorship must
I stay during the coming rains period of three months?

24

Ngasena, there is a venerable named Assagutta who dwells at

the Vattaniya hermitage. Go and approach him and, in my name,
bow your head to his feet by way of venerating him and say:
Venerable, my teacher pays his respect. He sends me to enquire
after your health and also to pass the coming rains period of three
months under your charge. When he asks you: What is your
teachers name, say to the venerable: Rohaa is the name of my
teacher. But when he asks you his own name, say: My teacher
knows your name.
Venerable Ngasena gave his assurance and after paying respect
to his teacher, took his bowl and departed.
After a long journey, he arrived at the Vattaniya hermitage of the
Venerable Assagutta. On arrival, he paid homage to the
Venerable Assagutta and stood to one side. Having thus stationed
himself on one side, Ngasena said: Venerable, my teacher pays
his respects; he enquires after your health. He has sent me here to
pass the coming rains period of three months under your
tutelage.
What is your name?
Ngasena is my name.
What is your teachers name?
Rohaa is the name of my teacher.
What then, is my name?
Venerable, my teacher knows your name.
Very well then, Ngasena, put down your bowl and robe.
On the next day, Ngasena, swept up the teachers cell and
reverently provided drinking water and tooth-cleaners ready for
the teachers use. The Venerable Assagutta, without a word, again
swept the place that had already been swept by Ngasena, threw
away the water and tooth-cleaners and fetched others.

25

So it went on for seven days. On the seventh day, the venerable

again asked him the same questions as before. On Ngasena again
making the same replies, he gave him leave to pass the rains
period there.
Now, a certain devoted laywoman had for 30 years, administered
to the wants of the Venerable Assagutta. At the end of that rains
period, she approached Venerable Assagutta and asked him: Is
there, Venerable, any other bhikkhu staying with you?
There is, O upasik, another bhikkhu by the name of Ngasena
who is staying with me.
If that is so, Venerable Assagutta, please accept my humble
invitation to you and the Venerable Ngasena, to take your forenoon meal the next day at my house. The Venerable signified his
consent by keeping silent.
On the morning of the next day, the Venerable Assagutta
arranged his robe, and taking the bowl, accompanied by
Venerable Ngasena, as his attendant, went to the dwelling place
of the upasik. On arrival, they sat down on the seats prepared
for them. She then offered delicious food, hard and soft, as much
as they required, waiting upon them with her own hands.
When the Venerable Assagutta had finished his meal, and the
hand was withdrawn from the bowl, he said to Venerable
Ngasena: Do, Ngasena, give a discourse of blessing and cheer
to this upasik. So saying, he rose from his seat and went away.
The upasik said to the Venerable Ngasena: I am advanced in
years, O Venerable Ngasena. Let the discourse of blessing and
cheer be from the deeper side of the dhamma.

26

Thereupon the Venerable Ngasena expounded a discourse on the

abhidhamma that was profound, that tends to eliminate the idea
of self. As the lady sat there listening, there arose in her insight
into the truth, clear and stainless, which perceives that whatever
has a beginning, that too has the inherent quality of passing away.
With this realisation there arose in her insight wisdom, the
knowledge of stream-entering (sotpattia). The Venerable
Ngasena, when he had concluded that discourse, he, too, arrived
at insight and he, too, entered upon the stream being the first step
towards arahantship.
Then Venerable Assagutta, as he was sitting in the place of
assembly became aware that both Ngasena and the upasik have
attained the insight knowledge of stream-entering; he exclaimed:
Well done! Well done, Ngasena! By a single arrow shot you
have hit two noble quarries. At the same time, thousands of gods
and the brahm gods exclaimed their approval.
Venerable Ngasena moved
After his discourse of blessing and cheer, the Venerable
Ngasena returned to the Venerable Assagutta and after paying
homage to the latter, took his seat on one side.
To the Venerable Ngasena who had thus taken his seat, the
Venerable Assagutta said: Do go now, Ngasena, to Paliputta.
There, in the monastery of Asokrma, is a bhikkhu by the name
of Dhammarakkhita. Under him you should learn the words of
the Blessed One.
How far, Venerable, is it to Paliputta?
A hundred yojana, Ngasena.
Venerable, the distance is long. It will be difficult to get food on
the way. How shall I get there?

27

Ngasena, as you get along, you shall get food on the way; rice,
curries and meat, both in liberal quantities.
Very well. After paying homage, he took his bowl and departed
for Paliputta.
Whilst the Venerable Ngasena was on his way to Paliputta, a
merchant of Paliputta with 500 carts in his charge, was also on
his way back. When he saw the Venerable Ngasena in the
distance, he approached and paid homage to him and asked:
Where are you going, Venerable?
To Paliputta, householder.
That is very good, Venerable. We, too, are going there. It will be
more convenient for you to travel with us.
The merchant, pleased with Venerable Ngasenas manners,
provided him with food, hard and soft, as much as he required,
waiting upon him with his own hands. When the Venerable
Ngasena had finished his meal, the merchant took a lower seat at
a respectful distance, and asked: Venerable, what is your name?
I am called Ngasena, householder.
Are you well-versed in the words of the Blessed One?
I am well-versed in the abhidhamma.
Venerable, we are most fortunate. I, too, am a student of that;
please recite some passages so that I may learn from you.
Thereupon, the Venerable Ngasena gave a discourse to the
merchant of Paliputta. In the midst of the discourse, there arose
in the merchant the realisation that death and dissolution is
inherent in all things. With this realisation, there arose in him
insight wisdom, the knowledge of the path of stream-entering.

28

The merchant sent his carts in advance, so that he may travel with
the Venerable Ngasena. At a place where the road divided, he
stopped and said to the Venerable Ngasena: Venerable, this
road leads to Asokrma hermitage. I have here a precious
blanket measuring sixteen cubits by eight. Please accept this
offering.
The Venerable Ngasena did so, and the merchant felt pleased,
enthused, rejoiced and delighted. He then paid homage to the
Venerable Ngasena and went on his way.
Venerable Ngasena, later went to the Asokrma hermitage and
approached the Venerable Dhammarakkhita, to whom he paid
homage and informed him of the reason for visiting. He next
learnt by heart from the Venerable Dhammarakkhita the whole of
the tipiaka in the course of three months, where he also mastered
the spirit and the deeper meanings of the Teaching.
At the end of that time, Venerable Dhammarakkhita addressed
him: Ngasena, just as a herdsman tends the cows while others
consume the milk, you too, though you have in your memory, the
whole tipiaka, you are still not yet a partaker of the path and
fruit of the attainment of arahantship (arahatta magga-phala).
Let your admonishment stand at that, said the Venerable
Ngasena in response. On that very day, in the night, he attained
the fruition (arahatta phala) accompanied by the analytical
knowledge (paisambhid) of four kinds2. At the moment of
Venerable Ngasenas realising of arahantship, all the gods
sounded their approval; the earth shook with resounding echoes,
the brahm gods clapped their hands, and there came down from
heaven, showers of celestial sandalwood dust and celestial
mandrava flowers.

29

Entering Sgala
Now at that time the arahants assembled on the Rakkhita plateau,
sent for Ngasena. On receiving the message, the Venerable
Ngasena disappeared from the Asokrma hermitage and
appeared in the presence of the company of the arahants. The
arahants acknowledging his arrival then said: Ngasena, King
Milinda is in the habit of harassing the members of the Noble
Order by putting to them questions which tend to produce
answers one of which contradict the other. Ngasena, go and
teach him the dhamma.
Ngasena replied: Venerables, let alone a single monarch like
Milinda, let all the kings of the whole of India come and debate
with me, and I will resolve all their doubts and refute their
heretical beliefs. Venerables, let us hence to Sgala. Together
with the bhikkh|, Ngasena moved into the city of Sgala,
flooding it with the bright yellow hue of their robes and fanning
it with up-and-down breezes caused by the gentle flutter of the
edges of robes as they move about.
King Milinda questions the Venerable yupla
At the time, the Venerable yupla was living in the Sa~kheyya
hermitage. King Milinda said to his ministers: Faultlessly bright
and pleasurable is the night. Which of the smaa or brhmaa
should we now approach to ask questions? Which of them would
be capable of disputing with me or clearing away my doubts and
dilemmas?
Thereupon the 500 Yonaka noblemen said to the king: There is a
Venerable named yupla, who is well-versed in the tipiaka,
well-learned, well-accomplished in reciting the Teaching. He is
now living in the Sa~kheyya hermitage. O King, put your
questions to him.

30

Very well then, my good people, get the approval of the

venerable to our coming to see him, said the king. The message
was sent: Venerable, King Milinda desires to call upon the
Venerable yupla.
Let him come.
King Milinda in his royal chariot and with 500 Yonaka
counsellors, proceeded to the Sa~kheyya hermitage. Arriving, he
exchanged greetings with the Venerable yupla and took his
seat at a respectful distance. Having thus seated, King Milinda
addressed the Venerable yupla.
Venerable, what are the fruits of becoming a bhikkhu and what
is the supreme goal of your aspirations?
O King, righteous living and balanced thinking are the fruits of
becoming a bhikkhu, and the attainment of the path and fruition
is the supreme goal.
Is there any one, who still belonging to the laity, yet practises
righteous living and balanced thinking?
Yes, there are those who, still belong to the laity, yet practises
righteous living and balanced thinking. When the Buddha
delivered the discourse of setting the Wheel of the Dhamma in
motion, 108 thousand million brahm gods became established in
the knowledge, while the numbers of gods that also become
similarly established is beyond counting. They belong to the
world of laity and not members of the sagha; besides, when the
Blessed One delivered the following discourses: Mahsamaya
Suttai, Mah-ma~gala Suttaii, Samacitta-pariyya Suttaiii,
Rhulovda Suttaiv, and Parbhava Suttav, the number of gods that
become established in the knowledge of the Truth is beyond
counting. They all belonged to the world of the laity and not of
the members of the sagha. [i - DN 20; ii - Sutta Nipata II. 4; iii AN II, 4:6; iv - SN 35:121, MN 147; v - Sutta Nipata I. 6 V91-115]

31

Then, if a person who still belongs to the world of laity can yet
practise and become established in the knowledge, where is the
benefit of your renouncing the world and becoming a bhikkhu? It
must be in consequence of your evil kamma of former births that
you have now chosen to renounce the world and become a
bhikkhu.
Those who have adopted the ascetic practice of eating their
meals at only one sitting, perhaps they were thieves in some
former births who stole others possessions. In consequence of
their unwholesome actions of the past, they are now constrained
to eat only such food as they can get at one sitting. They are
deprived of the freedom to eat at any time as they want. Such
practice does not, perhaps, involve any morality, spiritual training
or noble practice.
Those who have adopted the ascetic practice of living in the
open air; perhaps they were robbers in some former births who
destroyed others dwellings. In consequence of their
unwholesome actions of the past, they are now constrained to live
in open air spaces and are deprived of shelter. Such practice does
not, perhaps, involve any morality, spiritual training, or noble
practice.
Those who have adopted the ascetic practice of only sitting and
sleeping in a sitting position, perhaps they were highwaymen in
former births who had committed highway robbery. They had
seized other wayfarers, bound them up and left them sitting there.
In consequence of their unwholesome actions of the past, they are
now constrained to keep to a sitting position and are deprived of
the freedom to lie down. Such practice does not, perhaps, involve
any morality, spiritual training or noble practice.

32

When the king had thus spoken, the Venerable yupla remained
silent. But the king, on seeing the Venerable yupla who had
become silent, clapped his hands and cried out to the Yonaka
counsellors thus: Vain and empty is this land of India! Indeed!
Like chaff is this land of India. There is now no one, either
samaa or brhmaa capable of disputing with me, or capable of
clearing away my doubts and dilemmas!
As he looked, however, at the assembly and saw how fearless and
self-possessed the Yonakas appeared, he addressed them: Is
there, my good men, any other learned bhikkhu, who is capable
of disputing with me or clearing away my doubts and dilemmas?
Meeting between Milinda and Ngasena
Now at this juncture, the Venerable Ngasena had just moved
into Sgala. He had with him a good following of bhikkh| and;

was an accomplished founder of a school of thought;

was a leader of a sect, was prominent and famous;

was universally acclaimed as a man of virtue;

was wise, quick-witted, resourceful, intelligent, a good

disciplinarian, brave and widely informed;

was a reciter of the tipiaka;

was one who has attained the fruition of arahantship;

was possessed of discerning powers;

know by heart the Blessed Ones Teaching;

was well-possessed of analytical knowledge;

was versed in the knowledge of the ssana of the

Blessed One who is possessed of the ninefold virtues;
had reached the summit in the attainment of the
knowledge of the perfections;

was proficient in teaching and unerringly knowing the

causal factors, the resultant factors and both causal
and resultant factors on the word of the Blessed One;

was a sayer of good words;

33

was possessed of an inexhaustible resource in words

of teaching;
was one that has dispelled defilements;
one who is worthy of the esteem and regard of the
bhikkh| and bhikkhun, and of the adoration,
veneration and homage by devoted layman and
laywoman, and by kings and their counsellors.

The ancient venerables had therefore said:

Learned, with varied eloquence, sagacious, bold;
Master of views, in exposition sound;
bhikkh| - wise themselves in the dhamma;
Reciters of the tipiaka;
Put Ngasena as their leader and their chief,
Him, Ngasena of clear mind and wisdom deep,
Who knew which was the right path, which the false.
And had himself attained nibbnas placid heights;
Attended by the wise, by holders of the truth;
He had gone from town to town, and come to Sgala,
And now he dwelt there in Sankheyyas grove,
Appearing, among men, like the lion of the hills.
Having thus arrived at that city, Ngasena chose to stay within
the hermitage of Sa~kheyya. When the King asked as to whom he
could turn to, in his search for answers to clear away his doubts,
Devamantiya said to him: Wait a while, your Majesty, there is
an elder named Ngasena who is wise, sagacious, is possessed of
penetrating knowledge, is capable of penetrating with vision, is
possessed of the wonderful words of the Teaching, is possessed
of the noble powers of penetrating intellect, has reached the
summit in the attainment of the analytical knowledge. He is
staying at present at the Sa~kheyya hermitage. Your Majesty, you
should go, and put your questions to him. He is capable of
disputing with you and clearing away your doubts.

34

When King Milinda heard the name Ngasena, a spasm of fear

and shudder swept through his body. He asked Devamantiya:
Will he be able to dispute with me and clear away my doubts?
Your Majesty, he is capable of disputing with gods, Inda, Yama,
Varua, Kuvera, Pajpati, Suyma, Santussita and the guardians
of the world and even with the great Brahm himself. How would
it not be possible for him to dispute with mere humans?
Then, Devamantiya, send a messenger to say I am coming.
Very well.
Devamantiya then sent a message to the Venerable Ngasena:
Venerable, King Milinda desires to call upon you.
If it be so, let him come.
King Milinda mounted his royal chariot and attended by the 500
Yonaka counsellors and a large retinue, proceeded to the
Sa~kheyya hermitage.
At that time, the Venerable Ngasena was seated with a large
company of bhikkh| in the assembly hall.
When King Milinda saw the assembly from afar, he said to
Devamantiya: Whose mighty retinue is this?
These are they who follow the Venerable Ngasena.
At the sight of the Venerable Ngasenas retinue, a shudder of
fear swept through his body. His flesh crept and his hair stood on
end. At that moment, King Milinda felt like an elephant hemmed
in by rhinoceroses3; like a dragon surrounded by garua; like a
god whose term of life is expiring4. King Milinda was frightened
and moved by awe; his thoughts were in turmoil: I must not
appear to be fearful or these people will despise me.

35

Gathering courage, he said to Devamantiya: You need not,

Devamantiya, point out to me anyone saying: This is Venerable
Ngasena, I shall pick him out unaided.
Very well, your Majesty.
As he looked over the whole of the assembly, in front and down
the centre and behind, King Milinda detected Ngasena seated in
the middle, like a formidable lion who knows no fear. As soon as
King Milinda saw the bearing of Ngasena: From amongst the
whole crowd, that is Ngasena.
Then King Milinda said to Devamantiya: That man there,
Devamantiya, is Ngasena.
Your Majesty, that is Venerable Ngasena.
Thereupon, King Milinda rejoiced that he had recognised the
Venerable Ngasena without anyone pointing him out. But
nevertheless, at the sight of the Venerable Ngasena, King
Milinda was again seized with fear. He was forced to declared:
Many learned men have I met and conversed,
and into many a discussion have I also entered.
Yet never before have I felt frightened,
As my fears have now heightened.
With whatsoever fright that I am feeling unnerved,
That fright un-nerving me presages.
That the hour has come for my defeat so plain,
With the victory of Ngasena so sure and certain.
bhirakath nihit

36

Notes:
1. nirodha-sampatti: Attainment of extinction also called savedayita-nirodha, extinction of feeling and perception, is the temporary
suspension of all consciousness and mental activity, following
immediately upon the jhna state called sphere of neither-perceptionnor-non-perception. The absolutely necessary pre-conditions to its
attainment are said to be the perfect mastery of all the 8 jhna, as well
as the previous attainment of angm or arahantship.
According to the Visuddhimagga XXIII, the entering into this state takes
place in the following way: by means of mental tranquillity (samatha)
and insight (vipassan) one has to attain to all the 8 jhna, one after the
other up to the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception and then
one has to bring this state to an end. If the disciple (angm or arahant)
passes through the absorption merely by means of tranquillity, i.e.
concentration, he will only attain the sphere of neither-perception-nornon-perception, and then come to a standstill; if, on the other hand, he
proceeds only with insight, he will reach the fruition (phala) of angm
or arahantship.
He, however, who by means of both faculties has risen from jhna to
jhna and, having made the necessary preparations, brings the sphere of
neither-perception-nor-non-perception to an end, such a one reaches the
state of extinction. Whilst the disciple is passing through the 8 jhna, he,
each time emerges from the jhna attained, and regards with his insight
all the mental phenomena constituting that special jhna, as
impermanent, suffering and nonself.
Then he again enters the next higher absorption, and thus, after each
absorption practising insight, he at last reaches the state of neitherperception-nor-non-perception, and thereafter the full extinction. This
state may last for 7 days or even longer. Immediately at the rising from
this state, however, there arises in the angm the fruition of
angmship (angm-phala), in the arahant the fruition of arahantship
(arahatta-phala).

37

With regard to the difference existing between a bhikkhu abiding in this

state of extinction on the one hand, and a dead person on the other hand:
In him who is dead, and whose life has come to an end, the bodily (inand out- breathing), verbal (thought-conception and discursive thinking),
and mental functions have become suspended and come to a standstill,
life is exhausted, the vital heat extinguished, the faculties are destroyed.
Also in the bhikkhu who has reached extinction of perception and
feeling (sa-vedayita-nirodha), the bodily, verbal and mental
functions have been suspended and come to a standstill, but life is not
exhausted, the vital heat not extinguished, and the faculties are not
destroyed. For details, see Visuddhimagga XXIII.
2. paisambhid: (i) of the true meaning (attha); (ii) of the law
(dhamma); (iii) of language (nirutti); and (iv) of ready wit (paibhna).
3. At that moment, King Milinda felt like an elephant hemmed in by
rhinoceroses; like a dragon surrounded by garuas; like a jackal
surrounded by boa-constrictors; like a bear surrounded by buffaloes;
like a frog pursued by a snake; like a deer pursued by a leopard; like a
snake in the hands of a snake charmer; like a rat in the clutches of a cat;
like a devil locked away by an exorcist; like the moon when it is seized
by Rahu; like a snake trapped in a narrow-mouthed wicker basket; like a
bird shut up in a cage; like a fish caught in the net; like a man who has
entered a dense forest, a haunt of beasts; like the celestial ogre who has
done wrong to Vessavana; like a deva whose term of life is expiring.
4. Itivuttaka 76 (The group of Threes)
When a deva is about to pass away from the company of devas, five
omens appear: his garlands wither, his clothes get soiled, sweat comes
out of his armpits, a dullness descends on his body, he no longer
delights in his own deva-seat...

38

Milindapaha
Division II

39

Chapter 1
mahvagga - The Great Chapter
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.

paattipaha
Conventional truth and ultimate reality
vassagaanapaha
Seniority of an ordained bhikkhu
vmasanapaha
A question
anantakyapaha
Anantakya, the kings counsellor
pabbajjapaha
On becoming a bhikkhu
paisandhipaha
Is there rebirth?
yonisomanasikrapaha
Wise consideration
manasikralakkhaapaha
The characteristic of mental heedfulness
slalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of morality
sampasdanalakkhaasaddhpaha
The characteristic of faith
sampakkhandanalakkhaasaddhpaha
Aspiration being the characteristic of faith
vriyalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of energy
satilakkhaapaha
The characteristic of mindfulness
samdhilakkhaapaha
The characteristic of concentration
palakkhaapaha
The characteristic of wisdom
nndhammna ekakicca-abhinipphdanapaha
Factors that bring about result

40
47
48
49
52
54
54
55
56
59
61
63
64
67
68
69

40

1. paattipaha
Conventional truth and ultimate reality
King Milinda after greeting the Venerable Ngasena with cordial
words, took his seat respectfully apart. The Venerable Ngasena
also on his part made King Milinda comfortable by pleasant words.
km:
vn:

Venerable, how are you known, and what is your name?

O King, I am known as Ngasena, and my companions in
spiritual training know me by that name. My parents gave
me names such as Ngasena, Surasena, Virasena and
Sihasena; the name Ngasena is merely a designation in
common usage, description and a name. The expression
Ngasena, cannot be identified with the idea of an
individual.

On hearing this, King Milinda addressed the 500 Yonaka nobles

and the 80,000 bhikkh| who were assembled to bear witness.
km:

This Ngasena says: The expression Ngasena cannot be

identified with the idea of an individual. Would it be
reasonable to suppose that this Ngasenas views are
worthy of acceptance?

Turning to Ngasena, he exultantly questioned.

km:

Venerable, if Ngasena, an individual or being is not to

be identified, please tell me then to whom are robes, almsfood, dwelling place and medical supplies being offered?
Who is the person that avails of the use of such articles?
Who is the person that observes the moral precepts; who is
the person that practises mind development? Who is the
person that realises the faith, fruition and emancipation?

41

Who is the person that kills a being? Who is the person that
steals anothers possessions? Who is the person that
practises sexual misconduct? Who is the person that speaks
the untruth? Who is the person that partakes of intoxicants?
Who is the person that commits the five heinous actions
that brings immediate fruit?
If that being so, there is no wholesomeness (kusala) or
unwholesomeness (akusala) of deeds; neither is there doer
nor causer of deeds, wholesome or unwholesome; there is
no kamma result or fruit of good or evil deeds.
Venerable Ngasena, if a person were to kill you, the law
of retributive justice with respect to killing will be
inoperative in regard to such a person. Then, it follows that
there are neither teachers nor preceptors in the order of
bhikkh| and that there is no ordained bhikkh| at all.

vn:
km:
vn:
km:

vn:

In your expression: My companions in spiritual training

also know me by that name, which is the thing that is
meant by the term Ngasena? What then, do you mean to
say that the hair of the head is Ngasena?
O King, I do not say that the hair of the head is Ngasena.
Are the hairs of the body Ngasena?
No, the hairs of the body are not Ngasena.
Or are the toe nails, ... or the finger nails, the teeth, the
skin, the sinews, the bones, the marrow, the kidneys, the
heart, the liver, the diaphragm, the spleen, the lungs, the
intestines, the mesentery, the stomach, the excrements, the
bile, the phlegm, the pus, the blood, the sweat, the fat, the
tears, the skin grease, the spittle, the nasal mucus, the oil of
the joints and the urine... or is the brain in the head that is
Ngasena?
No, all those are not Ngasena.

42

km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:

vn:
km:
vn:
km:

Is corporeality, feeling, perception, mental-formations or

consciousness Ngasena?
No, they are not Ngasena.
What then, are the corporeality, feeling, perception, mental
formations, and consciousness combined that is Ngasena?
No, these combined are not Ngasena.
What then, Venerable, that is outside the corporeality,
feeling, perception, mental-formations, and consciousness
combined that is Ngasena?
There is none outside of those that is Ngasena.
Venerable, probe as I may, I can discover no Ngasena. Is
the sound of your expression Ngasena itself Ngasena?
No, it is not.
Who then is Ngasena? It is an untruth and a falsehood that
you, Venerable, has spoken. There is now no Ngasena.

The Venerable Ngasena then calmly enquired of King Milinda.

vn:

km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:

O King, you are soft and tender as befits a person of royal

lineage. Were you to come across a plain of burning sands
scorched by midday heat and also treading upon rough
gravel and fragments of broken pottery, the soles of your
feet would be severely hurt and cut up with abrasions. You
would be physically tired out and mentally drained. In you,
would arise body-consciousness associated with pain. How
then did you come here? Was it on foot, or in what form of
conveyance did you come?
Venerable, I did not come on foot. I came in a chariot1.
If you came in a chariot, then explain to me what that is. Is
the pole that is the chariot?
No, Venerable.
Is the axle, the wheels, the framework, the supporting-rod,
the yoke, the ropes, or the goad that is the chariot?
No, Venerable.

43

vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:
km:
vn:

What then, are all these parts; the pole, the axle, the
wheels, the framework, the supporting-rod, the yoke, the
ropes, and the goad that are the chariot?
No, Venerable.
But is there anything outside all these parts; the pole, the
axle, the wheels, the framework, the supporting-rod, the
yoke, the ropes, and the goad that is the chariot?
No, Venerable.
Enquire as I may, I cannot discover a chariot. Is the sound
of chariot itself the chariot?
No, Venerable, it is not.
What then is the chariot you say you came in? It is an
untruth and a falsehood that you have spoken; there is now
no chariot. You are a supreme ruler of the whole of India.
Of whom then are you afraid that you speak the untruth?

Turning to the Yonakas and bhikkh|, Ngasena exclaimed:

vn:

All you Yonakas and bhikkh| assembled here! Hear me!

This King Milinda says: I came in a chariot. But when
asked: Please explain to me what the chariot is, he is
unable to explain fully what a chariot is. Would it
therefore, be reasonable to suppose that this King Milindas
views are worthy of appreciation?

When he had spoken, the Yonakas shouted their applause and

said to the king: Now let your majesty get out of that if you can.
km:

Venerable, I have not spoken any untruth. It is on account

of its having all these things: the pole, the axle, the wheels,
the framework, the supporting-rod, the yoke, the ropes and
the goad, that I have used the designation chariot, the
conventional expression chariot, the descriptive term
chariot and the generally understood name of chariot.

44

vn:

km:

O King, very good! You have rightly grasped the meaning

of the expression chariot and just so, it is on account of
my having such things as hairs of the head, the hairs of the
body ... and the brain in the head, and just on account of
my having such things as: the corporeality, the feeling, the
perception, the mental-formations and the consciousness,
that I have been designated as Ngasena, that the
conventional expression Ngasena has been applied to
me, that I am known by the descriptive term Ngasena
and that the generally understood name of Ngasena has
been given to me. In reality, however, the term Ngasena
cannot convey the idea of an individual or a being.
For it was said by the bhikkhuni Vajira1: Just as the coexistence in a certain structure of such component parts as
the pole, the axle, and the yoke gives rise to the conceptual
term chariot; even so, the co-existence of such component
parts as the corporeality giving rise to the designation
being, the conventional expression being, the descriptive
term being, and the generally understood name of being.
So wonderful! Well have you resolved the problems that
were placed before you, and those were profound and
difficult to understand. If the Blessed One Himself were
here, He would have said: Well done! Well done,
Ngasena!
paattipaho pahamo

Note:
1. Vajira Sutta SN 5.10 PTS: S i 134
This discourse dramatises a situation that often arises in meditation
practice; a speculative question arises that, if followed, pulls one out of
concentration. Vajira shows how to deal with the situation: recognise
that the terms in which the question is expressed are just that; terms, and
that whatever reality there is in the issue raised by the question can be
reduced to phenomena observable in the immediate present.

45

In ultimate terms, this comes down to the arising and passing away of
stress, which should be observed and comprehended to the point where
one can see through to that which neither arises nor passes away.
At Savatthi, then, early in the morning, the bhikkhuni Vajira put on her
robes and, taking her bowl and outer robe, went into Savatthi for alms.
When she had gone for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms
round, after her meal she went to the Blind Mens Grove to spend the
day. Having gone deep into the Grove, she sat down at the foot of a tree
for the day's abiding.
Then Mra the Evil One, wanting to arouse fear, trepidation and terror
in her, wanting to make her fall away from concentration, approached
her and addressed her in verse:
By whom has this living being been created?
Where is the maker of the being?
Where has the living being arisen?
Where does the living being cease?
Then the thought occurred to bhikkhuni Vajira: Now who is this that
recited this verse; a human being or a non-human one? Then it
occurred to her: This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited this verse
desiring to arouse fear, trepidation and terror in me, desiring to make
me fall away from concentration. Having realised that, this is Mra
the Evil One, she replied to him in verses:
Why now do you assume a being,?
Mra, is that your speculative view?
This is a heap of sheer formations:
Here no being is found.
Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
the word chariot is used
So when the aggregates exist,
There is the convention a being.

46

Its only suffering that comes to be;

Suffering that stands and falls away
Nothing but suffering comes to be.
Nothing but suffering ceases.
Then Mra the Evil One realising, the bhikkhuni Vajira knows me;
sad and disappointed, disappeared right there.

47

2. vassagaanapaha
Seniority as an ordained bhikkhu
km:
vn:
km:

Venerable, how many years have you been a bhikkhu?

Seven, O King.
How is it you say seven, Venerable? Are you seven or the
number that is seven?

Now at that moment, the figure of the king, decked in all the
finery of his royal ornaments had cast its shadow on the ground
and was reflected in a large vessel of water.
vn:

km:
vn:

km:

O King, your figure is now shadowed upon the ground and

reflected in the water. Now, are you or the shadow,
Milinda the king?
Venerable, I am Milinda the king, this shadow is not the
king. The shadow comes into existence because of me.
Just so, the number of years as an ordained bhikkhu is
seven, but I am not those seven years. It is because of me
that the number seven has come into existence; it is mine
in the same sense as the shadow is yours.
Wonderful! Venerable, well have you solved the problems
that were placed before you, and those were profound and
difficult to understand.
vassagaanapaho dutiyo

48

3. vmasanapaha
A question
km:
vn:
km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:

vn:
km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:
vn:

Venerable, shall we discuss again?

We will, if your Majesty will discuss like a scholar, but not
if you were to discuss as a king.
How then do scholars discuss?
When scholars discuss a matter, they tie each other up with
their interlocutory skills; they reply and counter-question;
they censure and rebuke; they praise or raise the other
party in high esteem; they treat the other party with
intimacy or reciprocate the others intimacy in kind; none
of the scholars are moved to anger by any one of such
actions or reactions. It is in this spirit that the scholars hold
discussions.
Venerable, how do kings discuss?
When a king discusses, he wishes the other party to concur
with his views. Whoever differs from his views is liable to
be punished: Inflict such and such a punishment on this
person. This, your Majesty, is how kings discuss.
Very well, as a scholar, not as a king, that I will discuss.
Let your reverence talk unrestrainedly, as you would with a
fellow bhikkhu, novice, devoted layperson or a watchman.
Very good.
May I now ask a question?
Please do so.
I have asked it, Venerable.
That is answered already.
What have you answered?
What have you asked?
vmasanapaho tatiyo

49

4. anantakyapaha
Anantakya, the kings counsellor
On hearing that reply, King Milinda thought: This bhikkhu is a
great scholar. He is quite capable of discussing things with me. I
do have a number of points on which to question him, but before
I can ask them all, the sun will set. It would be better to carry on
the discussion at the palace tomorrow.
Thus, he said to his counsellor Devamantiya: You may let the
Venerable One know that the discussion with the king shall
resume tomorrow at the palace. So saying, he rose from his seat,
took leave of Venerable Ngasena and went away in his chariot,
muttering as he went: Ngasena, Ngasena!
Devamantiya said to the Venerable Ngasena: Venerable, the
king has left the message saying the discussion between the
Venerable and himself shall resume tomorrow at the palace.
Ngasena accepted the message: Very good!
The next day the kings counsellors: Devamantiya, Anantakya,
Ma~kura and Sabbadinna went to the king and asked: Your
Majesty, is the Venerable Ngasena to come now?
km: Yes, he is to come.
counsellors: With how many of the bhikkh| is he to come?
km: With as many as he likes.
Sabbadinna then said: May he come with 10 bhikkh|, your
Majesty?
For the second time, the king said: With as many as he likes.

50

Sabbadinna asked again: May he come with 10 bhikkh|, your

Majesty?
For the third time, the king said: With as many as he likes.
Again Sabbadinna repeated his question: May he come with 10
bhikkh|, your Majesty?
The king thereupon rejoined plaintively: All this preparation has
been made and I say, let him come with as many as he likes.
Yet Sabbadinna is suggesting the alternative. Does he suppose we
are not capable of offering alms-food to so many bhikkh|? The
counsellor Sabbadinna feeling chastised, remained quiet.
The counsellors went to the Venerable Ngasena and said: King
Milinda desires that you are now to come with as many bhikkh|
as you like.
Thereupon, the Venerable Ngasena robed himself and taking the
alms-bowl, accompanied by 80,000 bhikkh|, entered Sgala.
Anantakya, as he walked beside Venerable Ngasena, asked:
Venerable Ngasena, may I ask you a question? In using the
term of expression Ngasena, what is meant by such a term? To
what does it apply?
The Venerable Ngasena replied: What do you, on your part,
think is meant by the term of expression, Ngasena?
The life principle, the inner breath that comes in and goes out,
that I suppose to be Ngasena.
If that breath having gone out should not return, or having
returned should not go out, would that man be alive?
No, Venerable One.

51

But those conch-shell blowers, when they blow their conchshells, does their breath return again to them?
No, Venerable One.
Or these pipers, when they blow their pipes or flutes, does their
breath return again to them?
No, Venerable One.
Or these trumpeters, when they blow their trumpets, does their
breath return again?
No, Venerable One.
Then why dont they die? asked the Venerable Ngasena.
I am not capable of arguing with so expert a reasoner as you,
Venerable. Please tell me the significance of the main point at
issue.
The air that you are alluding to is not life. They are merely the
bodily functions of in- and out-breathing produced by the four
causal factors (catusamuhnika r|pa).
The Venerable thus explained the matter by a talk on
abhidhamma. After this, the kings counsellor Anantakya begged
the Venerable to recognise him as a lay disciple.
anantakyapaho catuttho

52

5. pabbajjapaha
On becoming a bhikkhu
The Venerable Ngasena, as invited, arrived at the palace of King
Milinda and sat down on a prepared seat.
The King then provided Venerable Ngasena and his bhikkh|
with food, both hard and soft, as much as they required and kept
on serving with his own hands till they had enough. When he saw
that Venerable Ngasena had finished his meal, the King
presented each bhikkhu with a pair of robes, and Venerable
Ngasena himself with a set of three robes, he then approached
the Venerable Ngasena and said: O Venerable, please remain
here with ten of your bhikkh| and let the rest depart. The
Venerable gave his assent; after which the King took a lower seat
respectfully apart and began his queries.
km:
vn:
km:
vn:

km:

What, Venerable, shall we discuss?

All desires, blessings and welfare. Let our discussion be
about them.
What, Venerable, is the advantage of your becoming a
bhikkhu? What is the supreme goal of your aspirations?
A bhikkhu aims at finding out:
(i) The causes and conditions that will bring this suffering
round of rebirth (sasra-vaa-dukkha) to an end.
(ii) The causes and conditions of non-arising of sorrows
other than those that have already risen.
The supreme goal of aspiration is freedom from craving
and wrong view; liberation from the snare of craving.
May I proceed further with my questions, Venerable? Is it
with the aforesaid aims and objects in view that all bhikkh|
have renounced the world and ordained as bhikkh|?

53

vn:

km:
vn:

km:

No, not all who ordained did so with the aforesaid aims
and objects in view. Some because they were ill-treated by
the king, some because they were robbed by thieves and
robbers, some because they were harassed by debts, and
some perhaps to gain a livelihood.
For what reason that you yourself ordain?
I became a bhikkhu when I was young. I knew not then that
a bhikkhu has nibbna as his goal. In fact, these then were
my thoughts: These bhikkh| who were sons of Gotama,
the Buddha who formerly was a Sakya prince, are wise
people. These wise bhikkh| are sure to teach me. When
they actually taught me, I now know and understand what
the reason is and the advantage of ordination.
Very reasonable! Venerable.
pabbajjapaho pacamo

54

6. paisandhipaha
Is there rebirth?
km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:

Venerable, is there any one who after death is not reborn?

Some are reborn, and some are not reborn.
Who is reborn and who is not reborn?
One in whom defilements (kilesa) are present is reborn,
and one in whom defilements are absent is not reborn.
Will you, Venerable, be reborn.
If clinging is still present in me, I will be reborn. If
clinging is absent in me, I will not be reborn.
Very reasonable! Venerable.
paisandhipaho chaho

7. yonisomanasikrapaha
Wise consideration
km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:

Venerable, does he who escapes rebirth, so escape by the

exercise of yonisomanasikra?
Escape from rebirth, O King, is due to any one of these
causes:
(i) wise consideration (yonisomanasikra);
(ii) wisdom and knowledge (pa);
(iii) other wholesome phenomena (kusaladhamma) such as
faith (saddh).
Is wise consideration the same as wisdom?
Wise consideration is not wisdom. In fact, the animals such
as the goat, cow, buffalo, camel and donkey are equipped
with mental advertence (manasikra); but these animals are
not equipped with wisdom.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
yonisomanasikrapaho sattamo

55

8. manasikralakkhaapaha
The characteristic of mental heedfulness
km:
vn:
km:

vn:
km:
vn:
km:

vn:

km:

Venerable, what is the characteristic of mental heedfulness,

and what is the characteristic of wisdom?
Mental heedfulness has the characteristic of collecting
facts, and wisdom has the characteristic of cutting off.
How does mental heedfulness have the characteristic of
collecting facts, and how does wisdom have the
characteristic of cutting off? Do give an illustration.
Do you, O King, remember the barley reapers?
Yes certainly.
How do they reap the barley?
With the left hand they grasp the barley into a bunch and
grasping the sickle with the right hand, they cut off the
whole bunch with that.
Just as the barley reaper grasps the barley into a bunch and
grasping the sickle with the right hand, cuts off the whole
bunch with that, even so, the individual who is practising
mind development, holds the mind in a grasp by means of
mental heedfulness and cuts off the whole bunch of
defilements by means of wisdom. In this way, mental
heedfulnes has the characteristic of collecting facts, and
wisdom has the characteristic of cutting off.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
manasikralakkhaapaho ahamo

56

9. slalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of morality
km:

vn:
km:
vn:

Venerable, a while ago you said: The escape from rebirth

is due, besides wise consideration and wisdom, to other
wholesome phenomena. What are the wholesome
phenomena you are referring to?
They are morality (sla), faith (saddh), energy (vriya),
mindfulness (sati) and concentration (samdhi).
What is the characteristic of morality?
Morality has as its characteristic, the foundation and basis
of all wholesome phenomena. It is the foundation and basis
of the factors leading to enlightenment (bodhipakkhiya)
and wholesome phenomena comprising:
spiritual faculties (indriya),
mental power (bala),
factors of enlightenment (bojjha~ga),
the path (magga),
application of mindfulness (satipahna),
utmost striving (sammappadhna),
roads to power (idhipda),
mental absorption (jhna),
deliverance (vimokkha),
concentration (samdhi), and
attainment (sampatti).
The individual who is established in morality and who is
practising mind development, develops on the basis of his
morality, the five spiritual faculties, comprising: faculty of
faith (saddhindriya), faculty of energy (vriyindriya),
faculty of mindfulness (satindriya), faculty of
concentration (samdhindriya), and faculty of wisdom
(paindriya).

57

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

There is no retarding in the process of the wholesome

phenomena of such an individual.
Venerable, give me an illustration.
Just as all seeds and vegetation which springs from a
germinating power (bjagma bh|tagma) grow, multiply
and propagate with earth as their basis, just so does the
individual who is established in morality and who is
practising mind development, develops on the basis of his
morality, the five spiritual faculties comprising faith,
energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom.
Give a further illustration.
Just as all the activities requiring bodily exertion are
performed with ultimate dependence upon the earth, just so
does the individual who is established in morality and who
is practising mind-development, develops on the basis of
his morality, the five spiritual faculties comprising faith,
energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom.
Can there be a better illustration?
Just as the architect of a city, when he wants to build one,
first clears the site of the proposed city, and then proceeds
to get rid of all the stumps and thorny brakes, and thus
makes it level, and only then does he lay out the streets and
squares, cross-roads and market places, and so build a city.
Even so does the individual who is established in morality
and who is practising mind development, develops on the
basis of his morality, the five spiritual faculties comprising
faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom.
Can you render still another simile?
Just as an acrobat, when he wants to exhibit his skill, first
digs over the ground and proceeds to get rid of all the
stones and fragments of broken pottery, and thus to make it
smooth, and only then, on soft earth, shows off his
acrobatic skill.

58

Even so, does the individual who is established in morality

and is practising mind development, develops on the basis
of his morality, the five spiritual faculties comprising faith,
energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom.
For it has been said by the Blessed One: One who is endowed with kamma-produced wisdom of a being
reborn with the three (noble) root conditions, that is,
greedlessness, hatelessness and undeludedness
(tihetu-paisandhikapa);
possessed of zeal that militates against defilements
with a burning effect;
possessed of mature pihriya wisdom and is
habituated to being aware of the danger of the round
of rebirth; and
establishes himself in morality and develops either
concentration (samdhi) or insight wisdom
(vipassan pa), thus enabling to extricate himself
from all tangles of craving (tanh) both internal and
external.

km:

Just as the earth is the basis of existence of all beings, even

so, all morality groups embodied in the code of discipline
for bhikkh| (ptimokkha) are the basis of all wholesome
phenomena. Thus, morality is the principle gateway that
leads to all teachings and exhortations of the Blessed One.
Very reasonable! Venerable.
slalakkhaapaho navamo

59

10. sampasdanalakkhaasaddhpaha
The characteristic of faith
km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:
vn:

O Venerable, what is the characteristic of faith?

O King, mental calmness and aspiration are the
characteristics of faith.
And how is mental calmness, the characteristic of faith?
Faith, when it arises, dispels the hindrances1 (nvaraa). A
mind, devoid of hindrances, is clear, serene and untroubled.
Venerable, give me an illustration.
Just as a universal monarch (cakkavatti), when on a long
march with his army, might cross over a small stretch of
water; and the water, disturbed by the elephants and
cavalry, the chariots and foot soldiers, might become
fouled, turbid and muddy. When the army had crossed, the
universal monarch might give command to his attendants,
saying: Bring some water for I am thirsty.
Now suppose the monarch had a water-clearing gem, and
those men saying in response: Very well, your Majesty,
immersed the water-clearing gem in that stretch of water.
Then at once the aquatic plants, big, small, or brown would
disappear. The mud and mire, would settle to the bottom,
and the water would become immaculately clean, unsoiled
and clear. They would then offer it to the monarch.
In this simile, the water should be taken to mean the mind;
those attendents should be taken to mean the meditating
disciples or those practising mind-development; the aquatic
plants, big, small, or brown should be taken to mean
defilements; and the water-clearing gem should be taken to
mean the element of faith.

60

km:

Just as, at the moment of immersing the water-clearing

gem in that stretch of water, the aquatic plants, big, small
or brown, disappeared and the mud and mire settled to the
bottom and the water became immaculately clean, unsoiled
and clear. Such is faith a characteristic of tending to
calmness of the mind.
Very reasonable! Venerable.

Note:
1. Five hindrances (nvaraa): sensual desire (kmacchanda), ill will
(bypda), sloth and torpor (thina-middha), restlessness and remorse
(uddhacca-kukkucca), sceptical doubt (vicikicch).

sampasdanalakkhaasaddhpaho dasamo

61

11. sampakkhandanalakkhaasaddhpaha
Aspiration being the characteristic of faith
km:
vn:

km:
vn:

Venerable, how does faith have the characteristic of

aspiration?
Inasmuch as the samaa, on perceiving how others have
been set free, aspires to enter as it were by a leap upon the
fruit of the first stage, or the second stage, or of the third
stage of the path or to gain arahantship itself and thus
applies himself to the attainment of what he has not yet
attained; to experience that what he has not yet felt; to the
realisation of that which he has not yet realised. Therefore,
it is that aspiration is the mark of faith.
Venerable, please give me an illustration.
Suppose that a mighty storm pours down rain on a hilltop.
The water would flow down according to the slope and fill
the cleft, fissures and gullies of the hill slope. It would fill
the streamlets and then make the river swell so that it
would course along, overflowing its banks.
Suppose that a great crowd of people were to come, but,
knowing neither the shallowness nor depth of the river,
were to stand feeling afraid and hesitating on the bank.
Suppose also, that a knowledgeable man were to come and
recognising his own strength and power should tie on his
loin-cloth, firmly enter the stream and cross over to the
other side.
Then the rest of the people, seeing him safe on the other
side, would likewise cross. That is the kind of way in
which the samaa, by faith, aspires to leap as it were by a
bound, into higher things.

62

km:

For this has been declared by the Blessed One:

By faith he crosses over the stream,
By earnestness the sea of life;
By steadfastness all grief he stills,
By wisdom is he purified.
Well put, Venerable!.
sampakkhandanalakkhaasaddhpaho ekadasamo

63

12. vriyalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of energy
km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:

Venerable Ngasena, what is the characteristic of energy?

Consolidation as in supporting, sustaining, holding up, is
the characteristic of energy. All skilled mental state that is
consolidated by energy increases.
Give me an illustration.
Just as a man, if a house were falling, would make a prop
for it of another post, and the house so supported would
not fall. Even so, is the rendering of support the
characteristic of energy and all those wholesome
phenomena which it support do not fall away.
Give me a further illustration.
Just as a large army has broken up a small one, then the
king (of the latter) would sound orders to rally and close
up ranks, and also take steps to bring up reinforcements,
might in its turn break up the large one. Even so, is the
rendering of support the characteristic of energy, and all
those wholesome phenomena which it supports do not fall
away.
For the Blessed One has declared: O bhikkh|, the noble
disciple who is replete with energy, dispels the
unwholesome phenomena, develops the wholesome
phenomena, abandons the blameworthy deeds and develops
the blameless activities and is indeed bearing a self that is
devoid of defilements.
Very reasonable, O Venerable!
vriyalakkhaapaho dvdasamo

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13. satilakkhaapaha
The characteristic of mindfulness
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O Venerable, what is the characteristic of mindfulness?

O King, mindfulness has the characteristic of repetition and
keeping up.
How is repetition the characteristic of mindfulness?
As mindfulness arises in him, he repeats over the good and
evil, right and wrong, slight and important, dark and light
qualities, and those that resemble them, saying to himself:
these are the 4 foundations of mindfulness
(satipahna);
these are the 4 right efforts (sammappadhna);
these are the 4 roads to power (iddhipda);
these are the 5 spiritual faculties (indriya);
these are the 5 mental powers (bala);
these are the 7 links of enlightenment (bojjha~ga);
this is the noble eightfold path (ariya-aha~gikamagga);
this is the development of mental tranquillity
(samatha-bhvan);
this is the development of clear insight (vipassanbhvan);
this is the knowledge (vijj); and
this is the emancipation (vimutti).
Thus does the samaa follow those qualities that are
desirable, and not those that are not; thus does he cultivate
those which ought to be practised, and not those which
ought not. That is how repetition is the mark of
mindfulness.
Give me an illustration.

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It is like the treasurer of the king, who reminds his royal

master early and late of his glory, saying: So many are
your war elephants, O King, and so many your cavalry,
your war chariots and your bowmen, so much the quantity
of your money, and gold, and wealth; may your Majesty
keep yourself in mind thereof.
How is keeping up the characteristic of mindfulness?
When mindfulness is established, it enables one to
determine whether the things of doubtful quality are good
or bad by discerning thus: These are things conducive of
welfare whereas those things are not; these things are
productive of help whereas those things are not. By virtue
of this power of discernment, the individual who practises
mind development discards the things which are not
conducive of welfare while keeping up those which are
conducive of welfare. The individual discards the things
which are not productive of help while keeping up those
which are productive of help. In this way, mindfulness has
the characteristic of keeping up.
Give me a further illustration.
It is like the eldest son of the universal monarch who can
determine which of the attendants are good or bad by
discerning thus: These attendants are conducive of welfare
to the monarch whereas those attendants are not; these
attendants are productive of help whereas those attendants
are not. By discerning thus, he gets rid of those who are
not conducive of welfare to the monarch and keeps up
those who are conducive of welfare to the monarch. Just
so, when mindfulness is established, it enables one to
determine whether the things of doubtful quality are good
or bad by determining thus: These are things conducive of
welfare whereas those things are not; these things are
productive of help whereas those things are not.

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By virtue of this power of discernment, the individual who

practises mind-development discards the things which are
not conducive of welfare while keeping up those which are
conducive of welfare. The individual discards the things
which are not productive of help while keeping up those
which are productive of help. In this way, mindfulness has
the characteristic of keeping up.

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For the Blessed One says: The Tathgata declares, O

bhikkh|, that mindfulness is a necessity in all
circumstances whatever.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
satilakkhaapaho terasamo

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14. samdhilakkhaapaha
The characteristic of concentration
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Venerable, what is the characteristic of concentration?

Being the most foremost is the characteristic of
concentration.
All
wholesome
phenomena
have
concentration as their chief; they all incline towards
concentration; they all bend towards concentration; and
they all bow towards concentration.
Give me an illustration.
Just as all the rafters of the roof of a house go upwards to
that pinnacle, incline towards that pinnacle, are jointed at
that pinnacle, and just as the pinnacle is acknowledged to
be superior to all those rafters. Even so, all wholesome
phenomena have concentration as their chief; they incline
towards concentration; they all bend towards concentration;
and they bow towards concentration.
Give me a further illustration.
It is like a king, who goes to battle. The whole army have
that king as its sole leader; it will incline; bend, bow
towards the king; and it will always follow the lead of the
king. Even so, all wholesome phenomena have
concentration as their chief; they incline, they bend and
they bow towards concentration.
In this way, being the foremost leader is the characteristic
of concentration. For the Blessed One exhorts: Develop
concentration. For the bhikkhu in whom concentration is
established, knows things as they really are.
Very reasonable! Venerable.
samdhilakkhaapaho cuddasamo

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15. palakkhaapaha
The characteristic of wisdom
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Venerable, what is the characteristic of wisdom.

To your former question as to the characteristic of mental
heedfulness, I have said that wisdom has the characteristic
of cutting off; illuminating too, is a characteristic of
wisdom.
How is it so?
When wisdom arises, it destroys the darkness of ignorance
(avijj); it is a cause for enlightment; it illuminates
knowledge; and it manifests the Four Noble Truths. Thus
does the samaa who practises meditation realises with true
knowledge and clear comprehension: anicca, dukkha and
the voidness of a core, anatta, of all phenomena.
Give me an illustration.
It is like a lamp which a man might introduce into a house
in darkness. When the lamp has been brought in, it would
dispel the darkness, cause radiance to arise, light to shine
forth, and make the objects there plainly visible.
Even so, when wisdom arises it destroys the darkness of
ignorance; it causes the radiance of Enlightment to arise; it
makes the light of knowledge to shine forth; and it makes
the Four Noble Truths plain and manifest. Thus does the
samaa who meditates realises with true knowledge and
clear comprehension the impermanency, the total sorrow,
and the voidness of any core of all phenomena. In this way,
illuminating is the characteristic of wisdom.
Very reasonable, O Venerable Ngasena!
palakkhaapaho pannarasamo

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16. nndhammna ekakicca-abhinipphdanapaha

Factors that bring about result
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Venerable, can the aforesaid phenomena which are so

different yet bring about one and the same result?
Yes, the aforesaid phenomena though they are different
can yet bring about one and the same result and annihilate
the defilements.
How is that possible? Could you illustrate?
They are like the various arms of an army: elephant,
cavalry, war chariots, and foot-soldiers who all work to
one end; the conquest in battle of the opposing army. In the
same way, the aforesaid phenomena are so different, yet
can bring about one and the same result of annihilating the
defilements.
Very reasonable, Venerable!

nndhammna ekakicca-abhinipphdanapaho soasamo

mahvaggo pahamo
imasmi vagge soasa pah

70

Chapter 2
addhnavagga
The long journey
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

9.

dhammasantatipaha
The continuity of phenomena
paisandahanapaha
Awareness of rebirth
apapaha
Knowledge and wisdom
paisandahanapuggalavediyanapaha
One who will not be reborn
vedanpaha
Feeling
nmar|pa-ekattannattapaha
Mental and physical phenomena
therapaisandahanpaisandahanapaha
Will Venerable Ngasena be reborn?
nmar|papaisandahanapaha
Relation of mental and physical phenomena
to rebirth
addhnapaha
The subject of time

71
73
74
79
80
82
86
87

88

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1. dhammasantatipaha
The continuity of phenomena
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Venerable Ngasena, the one who is reborn, is he the same

as the one who has died, or is he another?
Neither the same nor another (na ca so na ca ao).
Give me an illustration.
Consider you were once a baby, tender and small in size,
lying on its back. Were that baby you the same as now?
No, that small thing was one, and I now am another.
If that child is one and the grown-up person is another, it
will follow that you have had neither mother nor father nor
teacher. You neither could have had learning in arts and
crafts, nor have morality nor wisdom. Consider this, is the
mother of the embryo in the first stage of human cell
nucleus (kalala) different from the mother of the embryo in
the second stage of froth (abbuda), or from the mother of
the embryo in the third stage of lump (pesi), or from the
mother of the embryo in the fourth stage of foetus
(ghanasa) or from the mother of the child, or from the
mother of the grown-up person, or is one who pursued
learning different from the one who acquired knowledge of
arts and crafts, or from the one who committed crimes, or
from the one who have had his limbs cut off?
It should not be so; if the same questions were to be put to
you, how would you answer?
I should say that I am the same person now, as when I have
grown up, as I was when I was a tender tiny baby, flat on
its back. For all these states are included in one by means
of this body.
Give me a further illustration.
A man lights a lamp, would it burn through the night?
Yes, it might burn through the night.

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Consider this, is it the same flame that burns in the first

watch of the night and in the middle watch?
No.
There is the flame that burns in the middle watch of the
night; is the flame burning in the last watch of the night the
same as the one burning in the middle watch?
No.
What do you think, is there one lamp burning in the first
watch of the night, and another in the middle watch and a
different one in the last watch of the night?
No, the light comes from one and the same flame that
burns from the first watch of the night.
Just so is the chain of phenomena linked together. One
phenomenon arises, another disappears, yet all are linked
together, one after the other, without break. In this way,
one reaches the final state of consciousness neither as the
same person, nor as another person.
Give me a further illustration.
It is like milk which when once taken from the cow, turns,
after a lapse of time, first to curds, and then from curds to
butter, and then from butter to ghee. Now, would it be right
to say that the milk was the same thing as the curds, the
curds were the same thing as the butter, or that the butter
was the same thing as the ghee?
No, it would not be right to say like that, but they are
produced out of milk in order of sequence.
Just so is the chain of phenomena linked together. One
phenomenon arises, another disappears; all are linked
together, one after the other, without break. In this way,
one reaches the final state of consciousness neither as the
same person, nor as another person.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
dhammasantatipaho pahamo

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2. paisandahanapaha
Awareness of rebirth
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Venerable Ngasena, does a man who will not be reborn

know: I will not be reborn?
Yes, a man who will not be reborn knows: I will not be
reborn.
And how does he know it?
Whatever are the factors that cause rebirth, he knows the
absence and removal of such factors; such a man knows: I
will not be reborn.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose a farmer had ploughed, sown and filled his
granary; then for a period should neither plough nor sow,
but live on the stored-up grain, or give it away, or disposed
of it in such a manner as called for by the circumstances.
Would the farmer know: My granary will not remain
filled?
Yes, he should know.
But how?
Whatever is the causal factor that brings about the granary
getting filled, through the absence of such causal factor,
the farmer would know: My granary will not remain
filled.
Just so, whatever are the factors that cause rebirth, he
knows the absence and removal of such factors; such a
man knows: I will not be reborn.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
paisandahanapaho dutiyo

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3. apapaha
Knowledge and wisdom
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Venerable Ngasena, does the arising of knowledge in one

cause the arising also of wisdom?
Yes, O King, it does.
Is knowledge itself wisdom?
Yes, it is.
If to one that knowledge itself is wisdom, would such a one
be still in bewilderment or not?
There will be bewilderment in regard to some things, and
none with regard to others.
What would he be in bewilderment about?
He would still be in bewilderment as to those parts of
learning he had not learnt, as to those places he had not
been to, and as to those names or terms he had not heard.
And wherein would he not be in bewilderment?
He would not be in bewilderment of that which has been
accomplished by the exercise of that wisdom and gaining
insight into the three characteristics of existence:
impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and absence of a self.
Then what would have become of delusion (moha) when
that wise person exercises mind development and gains
knowledge of insight?
When knowledge has once arisen, that moment of delusion
has died away.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the lamp, which when a man has brought into a
darkened house, when the darkness would be done away
with, and light would appear. Just so, when knowledge has
once arisen, at that moment, delusion has passed away.
And what, on the other hand, has then become of his
wisdom?

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When wisdom has once exercised its function of

comprehension, that moment, it too has passed away. But
what has been accomplished by the exercise of that
wisdom, that is, gaining insight into the characteristics of
existence: impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and absence
of a self, does not pass away.
You have just said: When wisdom has once exercised its
function of comprehension, that moment it has passed
away. But what has been accomplished by the exercise of
the wisdom, that is, gaining insight into impermanence,
unsatisfactoriness, and absence of a self does not pass
away. Give me an illustration of what you have last said.
It is as when a man wants, during the night, to send a letter,
and after having his clerk called, has a lamp lit, and gets
the letter written. Then, when that has been done, he
extinguishes the lamp. But though the lamp has been put
out, the writing would still be there. Just so, when wisdom
has once exercised its function of comprehension, that
moment it has passed away. But what has been
accomplished by the exercise of that wisdom, that is,
gaining insight into impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and
absence of a self, does not pass away.
Give me a further illustration.
In eastern countries, the people have a custom of keeping
five pots full of water in each house with the object of
putting out at once, fire that may break out. Suppose now
the house has caught fire, and they had thrown those five
full pots of water over the house, and the fire had gone out.
Now, what do you think; would those people then think of
still going on using the water pots that had been thrown
over the house?
No, those people will not think of still going on using those
water pots for the same purpose. They do not want them
any more.

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The five pots of water should be regarded as symbolising

the five spiritual faculties: faculty of faith, faculty of
energy, faculty of mindfulness, faculty of concentration,
and faculty of wisdom.
Those people should be regarded as symbolising the
individual who practises mind-development. The fire
should be regarded as symbolising defilements. Just as the
fire is extinguished by the five full pots of water, even so
the defilements should be extinguished by the five spiritual
faculties, and when once extinguished, these defilements do
not again arise.

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In this way, when wisdom has exercised its function of

comprehension, that moment it has passed away. But what
has been accomplished by the exercise of that wisdom, that
is, gaining insight into impermanence, unsatisfactoriness,
and absence of a self, does not pass away.
Give me a further illustration.
It is like a physician who goes to the sick man with five
kinds of drugs made from medicinal roots, and grinding
them up, gets him to drink. Through the administration of
these drugs, the ailments and diseases are eliminated. Now
what do you think; would the physician consider: I will
have to do the grinding up of the medicinal roots to
prepare the five kinds of drugs all over again.
No, the thought of preparing the drugs will arise no more.
No more benefit will arise out of these five kinds of drugs.
The five kinds of drugs made from medicinal roots should
be regarded as symbolising the five spiritual faculties. The
physician should be regarded as symbolising the individual
who practises mind-development; ailments and diseases
should be regarded as symbolising the defilements.

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The sick man should be regarded as symbolising the

ignorant worldling (puthujjana). Just as the ailments and
diseases have been eliminated through the administration of
the five kinds of drugs made from medicinal roots, even
so, should the defilements be annihilated through the
exercise of the five spiritual faculties. When once
annihilated, these defilements do not again arise.

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In this way, when wisdom has exercised its function of

comprehension, that moment it has passed away. But what
has been accomplished by the exercise of that wisdom, that
is, gaining insight into impermanence, unsatisfactoriness
and absence of a self, does not pass away.
Give me a further illustration.
It is like a warrior whose place is the battlefield. Suppose
that such warrior entered the field of battle holding five
arrows to conquer the opposing army. Having arrived at
the battlefield, suppose that the warrior cast those five
arrows whereby the enemy is broken. Now, what do you
think, would it occur to that warrior to repeat the
performance of casting arrows?
No, the thought of repeating the performance of casting
arrows is not likely to arise.
The five arrows should be regarded as symbolising the five
spiritual faculties. The warrior should be regarded as
symbolising the individual who practises minddevelopment. The opposing army should be regarded as
symbolising the defilements.
Just as the enemy is broken through casting of the five
arrows, even so, should the defilements be annihilated
through the exercise of the five spiritual faculties. And
when once annihilated, these defilements do not arise
again.

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In this way, when wisdom has exercised its function of

comprehension, that moment it has passed away. But what
has been accomplished by the exercise of that wisdom, that
is, gaining insight into impermanence, unsatisfactoriness
and absence of a self, does not pass away.
Very reasonable, Venerable Ngasena!
aapapaho tatiyo

79

4. paisandahanapuggalavediyanapaha
One who will not be reborn
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Venerable, does an arahant experience any disagreeable

feeling (dukkha-vedan)?
O King, some he experiences, and some he does not.
Which does he experience and which he does not?
He experiences the bodily disagreeable feeling but not the
mentally disagreeable feeling.
How does he experience one and not the other?
Whatever is the causal factor that brings about the
experiencing of the bodily disagreeable feeling, the
presence of such a factor conduces to one experiencing the
bodily disagreeable feeling. Whatever is the causal factor
that brings about the experiencing of the mentally
disagreeable feeling, the absence of such a factor conduces
to one not experiencing the mentally disagreeable feeling.
The Blessed One declares: The arahant that will not be
reborn, experiences only the bodily disagreeable feeling,
but not the mentally disagreeable feeling.
Why does not an arahant who experiences the bodily
disagreeable feeling choose to die?
Both fawning (anusaya) and repugnance (paigha) are
absent in an arahant. Being wise, they shake not down the
unripe fruit, but await the fullness of its time. For it has
been said by the Venerable Sriputta:
It is not death, it is not life I welcome;
As the hireling his wage, so I bid my time.
It is not death, it is not life I want;
Mindful and thoughtful do I bide my time
Very reasonable, Venerable!
paisandahanapuggalavediyanapaho catuttho

80

5. vedanpaha
Feeling
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Is an agreeable feeling a phenomenon that is wholesome,

unwholesome or neutral?
Some feelings are wholesome, some are unwholesome, and
some are neutral.
Venerable, if the agreeable feeling were wholesome, it
should not be ethically classed as painful; for if an
agreeable feeling were painful it should not be wholesome
nor should a wholesome phenomenon be ethically classed
as painful.
What do you think? Suppose a man were to hold in one
hand, a red-hot ball of iron and in another a lump of icy
snow. How is that both heat and cold can burn him?
Yes, both of them would burn him.
What do you think, are they both hot?
No, not both of them are hot.
But are they both cold?
No, not both of them are cold.
Then acknowledge yourself put in the wrong. If the red-hot
ball of iron burns, still not both of them are hot. In such a
case, the burning effect should not have been caused by the
ball of red-hot iron. If the lump of icy snow burns, still not
both of them are cold. In such a case, the burning effect
should not have been caused by the lump of snow.
Then why do both of them cause the burning? But they are,
both of them, neither altogether hot nor altogether cold. On
one part, the ball of iron is red-hot and on the other part,
the lump of icy snow is cold. Yet both of them caused the
burning effect. Still, the burning effect should not have
come from both heat and coldness.

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I am not equal to argue with you. Please teach me the

significance of the main point at issue.

Thereupon the Venerable Ngasena gave King Milinda a

discourse on the abhidhamma.
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There are:
6 kinds of agreeable feeling (somanassa vedan)
associated with household life (gehanissitni);
6 kinds of agreeable feeling associated with mental
absorption (jhna) or path (magga) or life of
renunciation (nikkhamanissitni);
6 kinds of disagreeable feeling (domanassa-vedan)
associated with household life;
6 kinds of disagreeable feeling associated with
mental absorption or path or life of renunciation;
6 kinds of indifferent feeling (upekkh-vedan)
associated with household life;
6 kinds of indifferent feeling associated with mental
absorption or path or life of renunciation.
There are thus 6 sets of 6 kinds of feeling altogether;
adding up:
the 36 feelings of the past;
the 36 feeling of the future; and
the 36 feeling of the present.
we arrive at 108 kinds of feelings.
Very reasonable, O Venerable!
vedanpaho pacamo

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6. nmar|pa-ekattannattapaha
Mental and physical phenomena
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Venerable, what is it that is reborn?

Mental and physical phenomena are things that are reborn.
Are the mental and physical phenomena of the present, the
things that are reborn?
Mental and physical phenomena of the present are not the
things that are reborn. In fact, the mental and physical
phenomena of the present, perform wholesome deeds or
unwholesome deeds. As a result, another set of mental and
physical phenomena is reborn.
If mental and physical phenomena of the present were not
reborn, would he be released from the evil kamma results?
If such a man were not reborn, it would only because the
mental and physical phenomena had attained to complete
eradication of all defilements. In which case only, would he
not be reborn. However, if he had not eradicated the
defilements, he is still subject to the laws of being reborn.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose a certain man were to steal a mango and the owner
were to seize him and bring him before the king: This
man, your Majesty, has stolen my mango. If the thief were
to say: Your Majesty, I have not stolen this mans mango.
The mangoes that this man planted are different from the
ones I took. I do not deserve to be punished. Would the
thief be guilty?
Certainly he would be guilty.
But on what ground?
Inspite of whatever he may say, he has not excluded the
mango originally planted by the owner. The mango that
came out later was sufficient to warrant him a guilty
judgement.

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Just so, the deeds, wholesome or unwholesome are

performed by the mental and physical phenomena of the
present. As a result thereof, another set of mental and
physical phenomena is reborn. But that other is not thereby
released from the evil kamma results.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose a certain man were to kindle a fire in the cold
season and when he had warmed himself, leave the fire still
burning and go away. Suppose that the fire were to cross
over to another mans field and set it on fire and the owner
of that field were to seize him, and bring him before the
king and say: Your Majesty! This man set my field on
fire. The man who warmed himself with fire said: Your
Majesty! I did not set this mans field on fire. The fire I
left burning was a different one from that which burnt his
field. I am not guilty. Now would the man be guilty?
Certainly he is guilty.
But on what ground is he guilty?
Because, inspite of whatever he may say he has not
excluded the original fire with which he warmed himself,
and the subsequent fire was sufficient enough to warrant a
conviction of the man who warmed himself with the fire.
Just so, the deeds, wholesome or unwholesome are
performed by the mental and physical phenomena of the
present. As a result thereof, another set of mental and
physical phenomena is reborn. But that other is not thereby
released from the evil kamma results.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose a certain man were to take a lamp and go up to the
top storey of the building with thatched roofs and there ate
his meal. If the lamp blazing up there were to set the
thatched roof on fire and from the thatched roof catching
fire, the house should catch fire and that house having
caught fire, the whole village should be burnt.

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The villagers would seize the man and ask: Why did you
set our village on fire? To that he replied: I have not set
your village on fire! The flame of the lamp, by the light of
which I was eating, was one thing; the fire which burnt
your village was another thing. Now, if they, thus
disputing, should go to the law before you, in whose favour
would you decide the case?
In the villagers favour.
But on what ground would you decide so?
Because, inspite of whatever the owner of the lamp says,
the fire that burnt the whole village originated, in fact,
from his flame.
Just so, the set of mental and physical phenomena that has
its end in death is, in fact, one thing and the set of mental
and physical phenomena that is being reborn is, in fact,
another. However, the succeeding mental and physical
phenomena owe its arising to the preceding mental and
physical phenomena. So that the other is not released from
the evil kamma results.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose a certain man were to obtain consent to a future
marriage to a young girl by payment of a dowry, and then
go away. The girl then arrive at a marriageable age, and
another man would come to pay a price for her and marry
her. And when the first man has come back, he would say:
Why have you carried off my wife? The other were to
reply: Its not your wife I have carried off! The little girl,
the mere child whom you chose in marriage and paid a
price for is one; the girl grown up to full age whom I chose
in marriage and paid a price for, is another. Now if they,
thus disputing were to go to the law about it before you, in
whose favour would you decide the case?
I would decide in favour of the first man.
But on what ground?

85

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:
km:
vn:

km:

Whatever the second man might say, that woman who had
grown up would have been derived from that young girl.
Just so, the mental and physical phenomena which has its
end in death is, in fact, one thing and the mental and
physical phenomena that is being reborn is, in fact, another.
But the succeeding mental and physical phenomena owe its
arising to the preceding mental and physical phenomena.
So the other is not released from the evil kamma results.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose a certain man were to buy from a herdsman a pot
of milk and go away leaving it in his charge saying: I will
come for it tomorrow. The next day it should become
curds. When the man come and asks for it saying: Give
me my pot of milk, then suppose the other were to offer
him the curds and he should say: It was not curds I bought
of you; give me my pot of milk. The other were to reply:
To you not knowing it, your milk has turned to curds.
Now, if they, thus disputing, were to go to the law about it
before you, in whose favour would you decide the case?
I would decide in favour of the herdsman.
On what ground?
Because, whatever the buyer of the pot of milk might say,
those curds were derived from the milk.
Just so, the set of mental and physical phenomena that has
its end in death is, in fact, one thing and the set of mental
and physical phenomena that is being reborn is, in fact,
another. However, the succeeding mental and physical
phenomena owe its arising to the preceding mental and
physical phenomena. So that the other is not released from
the evil kamma results.
Very reasonable, Venerable Ngasena!
nmar|pa-ekattannattapaho chaho

86

7. therapaisandahanpaisandahanapaha
Will Venerable Ngasena be reborn?
km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:

Venerable, will you be reborn?

Great king, what is the use of asking that question again?
Have I not already told you before that if I die with
clinging I shall be reborn; but if not, I shall not be reborn.
I shall illustrate further; suppose O King, a man were to
render service to the king; and the king, being pleased,
rewards him. Then through his being rewarded, that man
came into full possession and enjoyment of all the
pleasures of the fivefold senses. If, inspite of such rewards,
that man should publicly declare: The king has not repaid
me anything. What do you think? Would that man be
acting rightly?
No, he would not be acting rightly.
Just so, what is the use of asking that question again? Have
I not already told you before that if I die with clinging, I
shall be reborn; but if not, I shall not be reborn.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
therapaisandahanpaisandahanapaho sattamo

87

8. nmar|papaisandahanapaha
Relation of mental and physical phenomena to rebirth
km:

vn:

km:
vn:
km:
vn:

km:

Venerable, you were talking just now of the mental and

physical phenomena. Of these two, what does mental
phenomena mean and what does physical phenomena
mean?
Whatever of these two is gross and obvious therein, that is,
physical phenomena or corporeality; and whatever is subtle
therein, comprising consciousness (citta) and mental
concomitants (cetasika), that is mental phenomenon.
Why is it that each one of the mental phenomenon or
physical phenomenon is not reborn exclusively?
These mental and physical phenomena are inter-dependent
and co-existent and as such spring up together as one.
Give me an illustration.
As a hen would not get a yoke or an eggshell separately,
their springing up together as one is obvious. Just so, these
mental and physical phenomena, being inter-dependent and
co-existent, their springing up together as one is also
obvious. For a long time, these mental and physical
phenomena have been hurrying and hastening through the
cycle of rebirth.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
nmar|papaisandahanapaho ahamo

88

9. addhnapaha
The subject of time
km:
vn:
km:
vn:
km:
vn:

Venerable, you were talking just now, for a long time,

what is meant by this word time?
The past means time; the future means time; and the
present means time.
But are all these times existent?
Some of the times are existent but others are non-existent.
What times are existent and which are non-existent?
Whatever volitional activities (sa~khra) belong to the past,
are excluded from the present, have become extinct, and
have undergone change and transformation. Time in
respect of such activities, is non existent. But whatever
phenomena are kamma results (vipka1) or are causal factors
that produce kamma results (vipka-dhamma-dhamm), or
are about to produce rebirth in other existence, for such
phenomena there exist three kinds of time. [Note 1: vipka the consequence or result of an action.]

km:

Whatever beings at death are about to be reborn in other

existences, for such beings such kind of time is also
existent. Whatever beings at death are not to be reborn in
other existences, for such beings such kind of time is nonexistent. Whatever beings have reached those peaceful
liberations from the process of existence, for such beings,
such kind of time is non-existent as they have reached the
state of final emancipation. The fivefold groups of
existence having become extinguished and extinct.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
addhnapaho navamo
addhnavaggo dutiyo
imasmi vagge nava pah

89

Chapter 3
vicravagga
Discursive thoughts
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.

addhnam|lapaha
The root of time
purimakoipaha
A first beginning
koipayanapaha
Is a first beginning discoverable?
sa~khrajyamnapaha
The arising of conditioned phenomena
bhavantasa~khrajyamnapaha
A process of becoming
vedag|paha
Self, soul or ego-entity
cakkhuvidipaha
Eye-consciousness, etc.
phassalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of contact
vedanlakkhaapaha
The characteristic of feeling
salakkhaapaha
The characteristic of perception
cetanlakkhaapaha
The characteristic of volition
vialakkhaapaha
The characteristic of consciousness
vitakkalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of thought conception
vicralakkhaapaha
The characteristic of discursive thinking

90
91
94
95
97
100
104
108
109
110
111
112
113
113

90

1. addhnam|lapaha
The root of time
km:
vn:

km:

Venerable, what is the root of the past time, and what of

the future and what of the present time?
Ignorance is the root of the past time, of the future and of
the present time;
dependent on ignorance, there arises volitional activities
(sa~khra);
dependent on volitional activities, there arises
consciousness (via);
dependent on consciousness, there arises mental and
physical phenomena (nma r|pa);
dependent on mental and physical phenomena, there arise
the six sense-bases (sayatana);
dependent on the six sense-bases, there arise contact
(phassa);
dependent on contact, there arises feeling (vedan);
dependent on feeling, there arises craving (tah);
dependent on craving, there arises clinging (updna);
dependent on clinging, there arises the process of becoming
(bhva);
dependent on the process of becoming, there arises rebirth
(jti);
dependent on rebirth, there arises ageing and death (jarmarana), sorrow (soka), lamentation (parideva), pain
(dukkha), grief (domanassa), and despair (upaysa).
Thus, a first beginning of all time is not to be discovered.
Very reasonable, O Venerable Ngasena!
addhnam|lapaho pahamo

91

2. purimakoipaha
A first beginning
km:
vn:

km:
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km:
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km:

O Venerable, you have just said: A first beginning is not

to be discovered. Give me an illustration.
Suppose a man were to plant a tiny seed, and that it were to
come up as a shoot, and in due course, grow, develop and
mature until it produced a fruit. Then, the man, taking a
seed from that fruit, were again to plant it and suppose that
it were to come up as a shoot, and in due course grow,
develop and mature until it produced a fruit. Now, would
there be any end to this series?
No.
Just so, a first beginning of this endless time is not to be
discovered.
Give me a further illustration.
The hen lays an egg. From the egg comes a hen which, in
turn, lays an egg. If this series were to go on, would there
be any end to this series?
No, there would be no end.
Just so, a first beginning of this endless time is not to be
discovered.
Give me a further illustration.

Then the Venerable drew a circle on the ground and asked the
king: Is there any end to this circle?
km:
vn:

No, it has no end.

Just so, a first beginning of this endless time is not
discovered. The Blessed One proclaims a similarly endless
circle in the chapter on householders (Gahapati Vagga) on
the twelve links of the chain of causation as follows:

92

On account of the sensitive corporeality of the eye

(cakkhu-pasda-r|pa) and visible object (r|prammana),
eye consciousness (cakkhu-via) arises.
Contact is the conjunction of the three;
through contact there arises feeling;
through feeling these arises craving;
through craving there arises clinging;
through clinging there arises wholesome or unwholesome
volitional activities; and through wholesome or
unwholesome volitional activities there arises the sensitive
corporeality of the eye all over again.

km:
vn:

Now, is there any end to this series of eye-consciousness

proclaimed in the Blessed Ones discourse?
No.
The Blessed One also proclaims:
On account of the sensitive corporeality of the ear (sotapasda-r|pa) and sound (saddrammaa) ...;
On account of the sensitive corporeality of the nose
(ghna-pasda-r|pa) and odour (gandhrammaa) ...;
On account of the sensitive corporeality of the tongue
(jivh-pasda-r|pa) and taste (rasrammaa) ...;
On account of the sensitive corporeality of the body (kyapasda-r|pa) and tangible object (phohabb-rammaa) ...;
On account of the mind door (mano-dvra) and mental
object (dhammrammaa), mind-consciousness (manovia) arises.

93

Contact is the conjunction of the three;

through contact there arises feeling;
through feeling these arises craving;
through craving there arises clinging;
through clinging there arises wholesome or unwholesome
volitional activities; and through wholesome or
unwholesome volitional activities there arises mindconsciousness all over again.

km:
vn:
km:

Now, would there be a first beginning to this series of

mind-consciousness as proclaimed in the Blessed Ones
discourse?
No.
Just so, a first beginning of this endless time is not
discovered.
Very reasonable, O Venerable Ngasena!
purimakoipaho dutiyo

94

3. koipayanapaha
Is a first beginning discoverable?
km:
vn:
km:

vn:
km:
vn:

km:

vn:
km:

When you say that a first beginning is not to be discovered,

what do you mean by a first beginning?
Of whatever time is past. It is the first beginning of that
that I speak of.
But, if so, when you say that it is not to be discovered, do
you mean to say that of everything? Is a first beginning of
everything not to be discovered?
Some are discovered, while others are not.
Then, which are to be discovered and which not?
If ignorance had never arisen at any time in the past down
to the present, then a first beginning is not to be
discovered. If, however, a phenomenon which until now
was non-existent, were now to arise, and having arisen,
dissolves away again. In reference to such phenomenon, a
first beginning is to be discovered.
If a phenomenon which until now was non-existent, were
now to arise, and having arisen, dissolves away again, is it
not a case of cutting-off both at the beginning and at the
end, and thus implying a complete annihilation? If in the
case of a complete annihilation, can it not be made to grow
again at both ends? It might be possible, to make both cutoff ends grow again. But this is not my question. Could it
grow again from the point of cutting-off at the end?
Yes, it can grow again.
Give me an illustration.

Then the Venerable repeated the simile of the tree (and seeds),
and said that the fivefold groups of existence are also the seeds
of this whole mass of suffering.
km: Very reasonable, O Venerable!
koipayanapaho tatiyo

95

4. sa~khrajyamnapaha
The arising of conditioned phenomena
km:
vn:
km:
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O Venerable, are there any such conditioned phenomena as

are in the state of their arising?
Yes, O King.
Which are the conditioned phenomena as are in the state of
their arising?
When the sensitive corporeality of the eye is present and
the visible object is also present, there arises eyeconsciousness;
when eye-consciousness is present, there arises eye contact
(cakkhu samphassa);
when eye contact is present, there arises feeling;
when feeling is present, there arises craving;
when craving is present, there arises clinging;
when clinging is present, there arises the process of
becoming;
when the process of becoming is present, there arises
rebirth;
when rebirth is present, there arises ageing and death,
sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. The arising of
the whole mass of suffering is thus plain and evident.
When the sensitive corporeality of the eye is absent and the
visible object is also absent, there does not arise eyeconsciousness;
when eye-consciousness is absent, there does not arise eye
contact;
when eye contact is absent, there does not arise feeling;
when feeling is absent, there does not arise craving;
when craving is absent, there does not arise clinging;

96

when clinging is absent, there does not arise the process of

becoming;
when the process of becoming is absent, there does not
arise rebirth;
when rebirth is absent, there does not arise ageing and
death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair.

km:

The total fading away and extinction of this whole mass of

suffering is thus plain and evident.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
sa~khrajyamnapaho catuttho

97

5. bhavantasa~khrajyamnapaha
A process of becoming
km:
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vn:
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km:
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km:

Are there any phenomena which spring into being without a

gradual becoming?
No. They all have a gradual becoming.
Give me an illustration.
Great king, did this palace we are in appear suddenly?
No, there is not a single article that forms a component part
of this palace that came into existence without a cause.
Each became what it is due to a process of its cause. These
wood-work we are now sitting on, had their process of
their cause in the forest. These plaster on the palace walls
are made of clay produced from the earth. This palace
came into being due to the efforts exerted by men and
women who were the cause to set up a palace.
Even so, there is no phenomenon that arises without a
process of its cause. Phenomenon arises due to a cause.
Give me a further illustration.
They are like all kinds of trees and plants (bjagmabhutagma1) which, when set in the ground, grow.
Developed and matured, they yield their fruits and flowers.
These plants arise due to causes. Thus, there is no
phenomenon that arises without a cause. Phenomena arise
because there are causes.
Give me a further illustration.
They are like pots of various kinds which a potter might
form when he has dug up the clay out of the earth. The
pots do not come into existence without a cause. They are
caused to be what it is. Thus, there is no phenomenon that
arises without a cause.
Give me a further illustration.

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vn:

km:
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km:
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km:
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km:
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Suppose there were no frame of a harp, no membrane of

skin to be stretched tightly over the hollow frame, no
hollow frame itself, no handle of a harp, no fasteners with
which to fix up harp strings, no harp-strings, no plectrum
for plucking the harp-strings, and no human effort to
produce any harp music, would there be any music?
No, there would not be any music.
But, if there were a frame of a harp, a membrane of skin to
be stretched tightly over the hollow frame, a hollow frame
itself, a handle of a harp, fasteners with which to fix up
harp strings, harp-strings, plectrum for plucking the harpstrings, and also human effort to produce music from the
harp, would not there be any music?
There would be music.
Thus, there is no phenomenon that arises without a cause.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose there were no fire-stick, no twirling stick, no cord
for the twirling stick, no matrix, no burnt rag for tinder and
no human effort and exertion, could there be fire?
No, there could not be any fire by attrition.
But, if there were a fire-stick, a twirling stick, a cord for
the twirling stick, a matrix, a burnt rag for tinder and also
human effort and exertion, then might not fire appear?
Yes, fire might appear.
Thus, there is no phenomenon that arises without a cause.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose there were no burning glass, no heat of the sun
and no wick for tinder, could there be fire?
There could be no fire.
But if there were a burning glass, the heat of the sun and a
wick for tinder, might not a fire be struck?
A fire might be struck.

99

vn:

km:
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km:
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km:
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km:

Even so, there is no phenomenon that arises without a

process of becoming. Phenomena arise because there are
processes of becoming.
Give me a further illustration.
Suppose there were no looking glass, no light and no face
in front of it, would there appear an image?
No, there would not be an image.
But if there were a looking glass, light and a face in front
of it, would not there appear an image?
There would be an image.
Even so, there is no phenomenon that arises without a
cause.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
bhavantasa~khrajyamnapaho pacamo

Note:
1. bjagma: Within this definition should include these five: seed,
sprout, stem, root and limb joints, which have germinative power.
bhutagma: Within this definition should include all trees and plants
fully matured with leaves and greenery.

100

6. vedag|paha
Self, soul or ego-entity
km:
vn:
km:

vn:

Venerable, can the thing known as vedag| be obtained in

the ultimate (paramattha) sense?
What is meant by the term vedag|, alluded to by you?
Inside the body, there is a thing, called atta or self, soul or
ego-entity, and also known as jva or life, vital principle or
individual, which performs the functions of:
seeing visible objects through the eye;
hearing sounds through the ear;
smelling odours through the nose;
tasting a taste through the tongue;
feeling bodily impressions through the body; and
cognising mental objects through the mind.
It is just as we, sitting now in the palace tower, can look
out of any window, out of which we wish to look; the east
window or the west, or the north or the south. Just so, the
thing within the body, called the self, soul, or ego-entity
can, if it so wishes, see, hear, or otherwise perceive the
sense-objects through the doors such as the eye-door.
I will show and explain to you. Therefore, listen and pay
heed to my words.
If, as you say, the thing inside the body which is called the
self, soul or ego-entity, vital principle or individual sees
visible objects through the eye just as we, sitting here in the
palace tower, can look out of any window, out of which we
wish to look. Can it then see visible objects not only
through the eye but also through the ear, nose, tongue,
body and mind?

101

And in like manner, can it hear sounds not only through the
ear, but also through the eye, nose, tongue, body and mind?
And in like manner, can it smell odours not only through
the nose, but also through the eye, ear, tongue, body and
mind?
And in like manner, can it taste a taste not only through the
tongue, but also through the eye, ear, nose, body and mind?
And in like manner, can it feel bodily impressions not only
through the body, but also through the eye, ear, nose,
tongue and mind?

km:
vn:

And in like manner, can it cognise mental objects not only

through the mind, but also through the eye, ear, nose,
tongue and body?
It cannot be so.
The words spoken by you earlier, as compared to those
spoken by you now, are irreconcilable and contradictory.
Now as we are seated here in the palace tower with the
embroider-netted windows all thrown open, we are facing a
vast expanse of open sky and the spacious panoramic view.
We are thus able to see all visible objects plainly and
distinctly. Can the thing which, as you say, is inside the
body and is variously known as self, soul, or ego-entity,
etc., do the same when the eye-door is thrown open and
flung out?
Can the thing which, as you say, is inside the body and is
variously known as self, soul, or ego-entity, etc., do the
same when the ear-door is thrown open and flung out, that
it not only hears sounds but sees a visible object, smells an
odour, tastes a taste, cognises a touch?

102

km:
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km:
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km:
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km:
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km:
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And so with each of the sense door, when thrown open and
flung out, do the same?
It cannot be so.
The words spoken by you earlier, as compared to those
spoken by you now, are irreconcilable and contradictory.
Now again, if the counsellor Dinna here were to go outside
and stand in the gateway, would you be aware?
Yes, I should know it.
And if, the same counsellor Dinna were to come inside and
stand before you, would you be aware of that?
Yes, I should know it.
Would the thing which, as you say, is inside the body and
is variously known as the self, soul, or ego-entity, etc.,
discern in like manner, if anything possessing flavour were
laid upon the tongue, its sourness, or its saltiness, or its
acidity, or its pungency, or its astringent, or its sweetness?
Yes, it would know it.
But when the flavour had passed into the stomach, would it
still discern its sourness, or its saltiness, or its acidity, or its
pungency, or its astringent, or its sweetness?
No, it would not discern.
The words spoken by you earlier, as compared to those
spoken by you now, are irreconcilable and contradictory.
Now suppose a man were to have a hundred pots of honey
brought and poured into one trough, and then, having had
another mans mouth closed over and tied up, were to have
him cast into the trough full of honey. Would that man,
know whether the sweet flavour was sweet to the taste or
whether it was not?
No, Venerable.
But why not?
Because the honey could not get into his mouth.
The words spoken by you earlier, as compared to those
spoken by you now, are irreconcilable and contradictory.

103

km:

I am not capable of arguing with you, an expert reasoner.

Please tell me the meaning and significance of the matter at
issue.

Then the Venerable Ngasena convinced King Milinda with

passages drawn from the abhidhamma.
vn:

km:

On account of the sensitive corporeality of the eye and of

the visible object, there arise eye-consciousness. With the
arising of eye-consciousness, immediately occurring in
conjunction with that consciousness are the following 7
mental phenomena:
contact (phassa),
feeling (vedan),
perception (sa),
volition or impelling urge (cetan),
one-pointedness of mind (ekaggat),
controlling faculty or principle (jvitindriya), and
mental advertence (manasikra).
And this succession of mental phenomena in the cognitive
process is common to each of the consciousness that arises
at the other sense doors. In reality, a thing called life or
otherwise known as ego-entity, could not be and is not
identified in any one of those phenomena.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
vedag|paho chaho

104

7. cakkhuvidipaha
Eye-consciousness, etc.
km:
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vn:
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km:

vn:
km:
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Venerable Ngasena, does mind-consciousness arise at the

eye-door where eye-consciousness arises?
Yes, it does.
Which arises first?
Eye-consciousness arises first and is followed by mindconsciousness.
How is that? Does the eye-consciousness issue as it were, a
command to mind-consciousness, or does mindconsciousness issue a command to eye-consciousness?
It is not so, there is no holding of communion between
them.
How is it then, that mind-consciousness also arise at the
same door where the eye-consciousness arises?
Mind-consciousness also arises because of there being a
sloping down, and because of there being a door, and
because of there being a habit, and because of there being a
training and practice.
How is that? Give me an illustration of mind-consciousness
arising at the door where eye-consciousness arises because
of there being a sloping down.
Now what do you think? When it rains, where will the
water go to?
It will follow the slope of the ground.
And if it were to rain at some other time, where would the
water go?
It would go the same way, as the first rain water had gone.
Does the first rain water issue, as it were, a command to
the second rain water or does the second rain water issue
the command to the first rain water: Where you flow,
there will I flow.

105

km:

vn:

km:

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km:
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km:

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There is no issue of any command. There is no holding of

communion among such rain water. The flowing is just
because of the slope of the ground.
Just so, by reason of the natural slope that mindconsciousness arises at the door where eye-consciousness
arises. The eye-consciousness does not issue any command
to mind-consciousness, nor does mind-consciousness issue
any command to eye-consciousness. There is no holding of
communion among such consciousness. It is because of
there being a sloping down.
How is that? Give me an illustration of mind-consciousness
arising at the door where eye-consciousness arises because
of there being a door.
Suppose a king had a frontier city which was strongly
defended with turrets and battle-mended walls and had only
one gateway. If a man wanted to leave the city, how would
he go out?
By the gate, of course.
And if another man wanted to leave the city, how would he
go out?
That man would leave by the same way as the first.
What then would the first man tell the second: You go out
the same way as I do, or would the second man tell the
first: The way you go out, I shall go out, too.
Certainly not. There would be no communication between
them. They would go that way because of there being a
door.
Just so, it is by reason of there being a door that mindconsciousness arises where eye-consciousness arises. The
eye-consciousness does not issue any command to mindconsciousness, nor does mind-consciousness issue any
command to eye-consciousness. There is no holding of
communion among such consciousness. It is because of
there being a door.

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km:

vn:
km:
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km:
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km:

vn:

How is that? Give me an illustration of mind-consciousness

arising at the door where eye-consciousness arises because
of there being a habit.
Now what do you think? If one cart sent ahead, which way
would a second cart go?
The second cart would go the way the first cart had gone.
What would the first cart tell the second: I will go ahead,
you go the same way as I do, or would the second cart tell
the first: The way you go, I shall go, too.
Certainly not. There would be no communication between
them. The second would follow the first out of habit.
Just so, it is by reason of there being a habit that mindconsciousness arises at the door where eye-consciousness
arises. The eye-consciousness does not issue any command
to mind-consciousness, nor does mind-consciousness issue
any command to eye-consciousness. There is no holding of
communion among such consciousness. It is because of
there being a habit.
How is that? Give me an illustration of mind-consciousness
arising at the door where eye-consciousness arises because
of there being a training and practice.
In the art of calculating by using the joints of fingers as
signs or marks, in the art of arithmetic pure and simple, in
the art of estimating the probable yield of growing crops
and in the art of writing, the beginner is slow and clumsy.
But after a certain time, with training and practice he
becomes an adept.
Just so, it is by reason of there being a training and practice
that mind-consciousness arises at the door where eyeconsciousness arises. The eye-consciousness does not issue
any command to mind-consciousness, nor does mindconsciousness issue any command to eye-consciousness.

107

There is no holding of communion between such

consciousness. It is because of there being a training and
practice.
In response to similar questions posed by the king as to mindconsciousness arising at the door where ear-consciousness, noseconsciousness, tongue-consciousness, or body-consciousness
arises respectively, Venerable Ngasena declared that in each
case, there is no holding of communion among such
consciousness. Mind-consciousness arises because of there being
a sloping down, of there being a door, of there being a habit, and
of there being a training and practice.
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Very reasonable, Venerable Ngasena!

cakkhuvidipaho sattamo

108

8. phassalakkhaapaha
The characteristic of contact
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Venerable, does feeling arise at the door where mindconsciousness arises?

Yes, O King. Where mind-consciousness arises there also
arise the following mental phenomena: contact (phassa),
feeling (vedan), perception (sa), volition or impelling
urge (cetan), thought-conception (vitakka), discursive
thinking (vicra). All mental phenomena that arises are
headed by contact.
What is the characteristic of contact?
Touch is the characteristic of contact.
Give me an illustration.
It is as when two rams are butting each other. The sensitive
corporeality of the eye should be regarded as one of those
two; the visible object should be regarded as the other; and
the contact as the conjunction of the two.
Give me a further illustration.
It is as when two palms clapped together. The sensitive
corporeality of the eye should be regarded as one of the
two palms; the visible object should be regarded as the
other; and the contact as the conjunction of the two.
Give me a further illustration.
It is as when two cymbals are clashed together. The
sensitive corporeality of the eye should be regarded as one
of the two cymbals; the visible object should be regarded
as the other; and the contact as the conjunction of the two.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
phassalakkhaapaho ahamo

109

9. vedanlakkhaapaha
The characteristic of feeling
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Venerable, what is the characteristic of feeling?

Being felt and experiencing is the characteristic of feeling.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the case of the man whom the king, pleased with
his services, rewards him. Because of this, the man in full
enjoyment of the fivefold pleasures of the senses would
think: I did the king a service. For that, he has rewarded
me. It is on account of these rewards that I now experience
such good feelings.
It is also like the case of a man who, having performed
wholesome deeds, at death finds rebirth in the world of
heavenly beings. In full enjoyment of the fivefold pleasures
of the senses pertaining to the heavenly world, that man
would think: I must have performed wholesome deeds. It
is on account of those wholesome deeds that I now
experience such good feelings. Thus is it, that the being felt
and experienced is the characteristic of feeling.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
vedanlakkhaapaho navamo

110

10. salakkhaapaha
The characteristic of perception
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O Venerable, what is the characteristic of perception?

Recognition is the characteristic of perception.
And what does one recognise?
One recognises the brownness, yellowness, redness,
whiteness and the mauveness. In this way, recognition is
the characteristic of perception.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the kings treasurer, who on entering the treasure
vault, recognises the objects which are the property of the
king, recognising by their colour of brownness, yellowness,
redness, whiteness and mauveness. Just so, recognition is
the characteristic of perception.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
salakkhaapaho dasamo

111

11. cetanlakkhaapaha
The characteristic of volition
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Venerable, what is the characteristic of volition?

Impelling urge and conscious intention are the
characteristics of volition.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the case of a man, who prepares poison, drinks it
himself and gets others to drink it. He himself would suffer
pain, and so would they. In the same way, some individual
performs unwholesome actions with intention and at death,
would be reborn into some unhappy state of suffering, the
realms of hell. Those who emulate such individual in
performing unwholesome actions would also suffer the
same destination.
It is also like the case of a man, who prepares a mixture of
ghee, butter, oil, honey and molasses, drinks it himself and
gets others to drink it. That man would have bliss and those
others, too, would have bliss. In the same way, in this
world, some individual performed wholesome actions with
intention and at death, would be reborn into heavenly states
of blessing and happiness. Thus is it, that the impelling
urge and conscious intention are the characteristics of
volition.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
cetanlakkhaapaho ekdasamo

112

12. vialakkhaapaha
Characteristic of consciousness
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Venerable, what is the characteristic of consciousness?

Knowing the object is the characteristic of consciousness.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the guardian of a city who, when seated at the
cross roads, sees a man coming from the four different
directions - east, south, west and north. In this way, he is
consciousness of:
a visible object which he sees with the sensitive
corporeality of the eye;
a sound which he hears with the sensitive corporeality
of the ear;
an odour which he smells with the sensitive
corporeality of the nose;
a taste which he tastes with the sensitive corporeality
of the tongue;
a bodily impression which he feels with the sensitive
corporeality of the body; and
a mental object which he cognises with the mindelement.
Knowing the object is the characteristic of consciousness.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
vialakkhaapaho dvdasamo

113

13. vitakkalakkhaapaha
Characteristic of thought perception
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O Venerable, what is the characteristic of thought

perception?
It is fixing the mind on an object.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the case of a carpenter who fixes in a joint, a wellfashioned piece of wood. Thus is it that fixing the mind on
an object is the characteristic of thought perception.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
vitakkalakkhaapaho terasamo

14. vicralakkhaapaha
Characteristic of discursive thinking
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Venerable, what is the characteristic of discursive thinking?

Repeated investigation.
Give me an illustration.
It is like the case of a brass gong which, when struck, gives
out a reverberating and uninterrupted sound. The initial
striking of the brass gong is to be regarded as thought
conception and the reverberating and uninterrupted sound
is to be regarded as discursive thinking. Thus is it that
repeated investigation is the characteristic of discursive
thinking.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
vicralakkhaapaho cuddasamo
vicravaggo tatiyo
imasmi vagge cuddasa pah

114

Milindapaha
Division III

115

Chapter 4*
nibbnavagga
The deathless realm
1.

phassdivinibbhujanapaha
Isolation of elements
2. ngasenapaha
Venerable Ngasena poses questions
3. pacyatanakammanibbattapaha
The five sense-bases
4. kammannkaraapaha
Inequality of kamma results
5. vymakaraapaha
Putting forth of energy
6. nerayikaggi-uhabhvapaha
Heat of fire in the realms of hell
7. pathavisandhrakapaha
Configuration of the earth
8. nirodhanibbnapaha
Does extinction mean nibbna
9. nibbnalabhanapaha
Gaining of nibbna
10. nibbnasukhajnanapaha
State of nibbna

116
117
118
119
120
122
124
125
126
127

* The chapters go straight on because Divisions II and III are

really only parts of one book.

116

1. phassdivinibbhujanapaha
Isolation of elements
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Venerable, is it possible to isolate constituent elements such

as contact from a mixture or compound, lay each of them
apart and exhibit them saying: this is contact, this is
feeling, this is perception, this is volition or this is
consciousness?
No, O King, it is not possible.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose the cook in the royal household were to prepare a
curry or a soup curry, and were to put into them: curds,
salt, ginger, cumin seeds, pepper and other ingredients.
Suppose the king were to say to him: Pick out for me the
flavour of the curds, salt, ginger, cumin seeds, pepper and
of all the things you have put into it. Now, would it be
possible, separating off one from another those flavours
that had thus been compounded or mixed together, to pick
out each one, so one could say: Here is the sourness, here
is the saltiness, here the pungency, here the acidity, here
the astringency, and here the sweetness?
No, it would not be possible to separate one from the other.
But each flavour would nevertheless be distinctly present
by its characteristic sign.
Just so, it is not possible to isolate the constituent elements
from a mixture or compound. Nevertheless, each will be
distinctly present by its characteristic sign.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
phassdivinibbhujanapaho pahamo

117

2. ngasenapaha
Venerable Ngasena poses questions
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O King, is salt recognisable by eye-consciousness?

Yes, it is recognisable by eye-consciousness.
Know it with comprehension1.
Well then, is it perceptible by tongue-consciousness?
Yes, it is recognisable by tongue-consciousness.
Is every kind of salt perceptible by tongue-consciousness?
Yes, every kind.
If that be so, why do bullocks carry whole cart-loads of it?
Is it not salt and nothing else that ought to be so brought?
It is impossible to bring salt by itself. But all these
conditions1 have run together into one, and produced the
distinctive thing called salt2. (For instance): salt is heavy,
too. But is it possible, O King, to weigh salt?
Yes, it is possible.
No. It is not the salt you weigh, it is the weight.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
ngasenapaho dutiyo

Notes:
1. Not saltness only, but also colour, e.g. white, grey, etc.
2. He meant the king to draw the conclusion that that distinct thing is
only recognisable by the tongue; so the senses are not interchangeable. In other words, it is true that salt seems to be
recognised by the sight, as when people load it into carts, they do
not stop to taste it. But what they see is not salt, what they weigh is
not salt, it is colour and weight. And the fact of its being salt is an
inference they draw.

118

3. pacyatanakammanibbattapaha
The five sense-bases
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Venerable, there are the five sense-bases. Are they

produced by various actions or by one action only?
They are produced by various actions and not by one action
only.
Give me an illustration.
Now, what do you think? If I were to sow in one field,
various kinds of seed, would the produce of those various
seeds be of different kinds?
Yes, they would.
Just so, the five sense-bases are produced by various
actions and not by one action only.
Very reasonable, O Venerable Ngasena!
pacyatanakammanibbattapaho tatiyo

119

4. kammannkaraapaha
Inequality of kamma results
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Venerable, why is it that all men are not alike: some are
short-lived and some long-lived, some sickly and some
healthy, some ugly and some beautiful, some without
influence and some of great power, some poor and some
wealthy, some low born and some high born, some
ignorant and some intelligent?
Why is it that all vegetables are not alike: some are sour,
some salty, some pungent and some acid, some astringent
and some sweet?
I think their inequality is because they come from different
kinds of seed.
Just so, because of the difference of wholesome and
unwholesome actions (kamma1), men are unequal as you
have earlier mentioned. The Blessed One also declared:
Beings are owners of their actions, heirs of their actions,
they originate from their actions, are bound to their actions,
have their actions as their refuge. It is action that
distinguishes
beings as
inferior
and
superior.
[C|akammavibha~ga Sutta, Majjhima Nikya 135]

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Very reasonable, Venerable!

kammannkaraapaho catuttho

Note:
1. .kamma: action, denotes the wholesome and unwholesome volitions
and their concomitant mental factors, causing rebirth. These volitions
become manifested as wholesome or unwholesome actions by body,
speech and mind. Thus, the term kamma by no means signifies the result
of actions2, and quite certainly not the fate of man, or perhaps even of
whole nations. Buddhist Dictionary by Nynatiloka.
2. vipaka: the consequence or result of an action.

120

5. vymakaraapaha
Putting forth of energy
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You have said in reply to the question on renunciation that

having been ordained as a bhikkhu and reflecting: How
are we to put an end to this cycle of suffering (vaa
dukkha) and prevent further ones from arising, such were
the goals you aspire to.
What then is the objective of your putting forth of energy
in advance of the arising of necessity for doing so?
A task will be accomplished if energy is put forth in
advance of the arising of the necessity for doing so.
Give me an illustration.
Now what do you think? Is it only when you feel thirsty
that you would set to work to have a well or a reservoir
dug out with the intention to have some water to drink?
Certainly not.
Just so, a task will be accomplished if energy is put forth in
advance of the arising of the necessity for doing so.
Give me a further illustration.
Now what do you think? Is it when you feel hungry that
you set to work to have fields ploughed and seeds planted
and crops gathered with the intention to eat?
No, Venerable.
Just so, a task will be accomplished if energy is put forth in
advance of the arising of the necessity for doing so.
Give me a further illustration.
Now what do you think? Suppose it was time for you go to
battle. Would you only then set to work to have a moat
dug, a rampart put up, a gateway built, turrets and watch
towers set up and stores of food collected?

121

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Would you only then have yourself trained in the

management of elephants, horsemanship, the use of the
chariot, in the art of archery, swordsmanship or lanceplaying?
No, Venerable One.
Just so, a task will be accomplished if energy is put forth in
advance of the arising of the necessity for doing so.
The Blessed One also declared thus:
One should promptly do the deed
One knows leads to ones own welfare;
The thinker, the wise one, should not advance
With the reflection of the carter.
As the carter who left the highway,
A road with an even surface,
And entered upon a rugged bypath
Broods mournfully with a broken axle
So the fool, having left the dhamma
To follow a way opposed to dhamma,
When he falls into the mouth of death
Broods like the carter with a broken axle.
[Sayutta Nikya 2, 22 vs 330-332]

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Very reasonable, Venerable!

vymakaraapaho pacamo

122

6. nerayikaggi-uhabhvapaha
Heat of fire in the realms of hell
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O Venerable, you say thus: The fire of the realms of hell

is very much fiercer than an ordinary fire. A stone cast into
an ordinary fire may burn for a whole day without being
destroyed; but a rock as high as the summit of a house cast
into the furnace of hell would be instantaneously
destroyed. This is a statement I cannot believe. Now on
the other hand, you say thus: The beings who are reborn in
the realms of hell, though they burn for many a thousand
years in the fire thereof, yet are they not destroyed. That
too, is a statement I do not believe.
O King, now what do you think? Do not the female sharks,
crocodiles, tortoises, peacocks and pigeons eat hard bits of
stone and gravel?
Yes, they do.
Are these stones and gravel, when ingested into the
abdomen, destroyed?
Yes, they are.
And the embryo that may be inside those animals including
sharks, is that too destroyed?
No, that embryo is not destroyed.
But why not?
I suppose it escapes destruction by the influence of kamma.
Just so, it is by the influence of kamma that beings in the
realms of hell, though they burn for many a thousand
years, are not destroyed. It has been declared by the
Blessed One thus: For so long as his evil kamma is not
exhausted, for so long such a denizen of hell does not die.
Give me a further illustration.
Now what do you think? Do not the females of lion, tiger,
leopard and dog eat hard bits of bone and flesh?

123

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Yes, they do.

Are these hard things, when ingested into the abdomen,
destroyed?
Yes, they are.
And the embryo that may be inside those animals including
lionesses, is that too, destroyed?
No, it is not.
But why has that not been destroyed?
I suppose it escapes destruction by the influence of kamma.
Just so, it is by the influence of kamma that beings in the
realms of hell, though they burn for many a thousand
years, are not destroyed.
Give me a further illustration.
Now what do you think? Do not the tender women of
Yonaka country, of the ruling class, of the Brahmin class,
and of the middle class eat hard and tough food or meat?
Yes, they do.
What then, are those hard things, when ingested into the
abdomen of those women, destroyed?
Yes, they are destroyed.
And the embryo that may be in the womb of any of those
women, is that too destroyed?
No, that embryo is not destroyed.
But why has that not been destroyed?
I suppose it escapes destruction by the influence of kamma.
Just so, it is by the influence of kamma that beings in the
realms of hell, though they burn for many a thousand
years, are not destroyed. It has been declared by the
Blessed One thus: For so long as his evil kamma is not
exhausted, for so long such a denizen of hell does not die.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
nerayikaggi-uhabhvapaho chaho

124

7. pathavisandhrakapaha
Configuration of the earth
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Venerable, it has been said: The great earth rests on water,

the water on air, and the air on space. This saying also I
cannot believe.

Thereupon the Venerable Ngasena brought water in a regulation

water-pot (dhammakaraka1) and convinced King Milinda.
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As this water is supported by the atmosphere, so is that

water supported by air.
Very reasonable, O Venerable.
pathavisandhrakapaho sattamo

Note:
1. dhammakaraka: this was a pot so made, that no water could pass from
it except through a filtering medium. When not being actually used, the
water was kept at a certain height in it by the pressure of the
atmosphere.

125

8. nirodhanibbnapaha
Does extinction mean nibbna
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Venerable, is extinction, nibbna?

Yes, extinction is nibbna.
How is extinction, nibbna?
All foolish worldlings find delight in the sense-bases
(yatana), internal and external; that being infatuated with
them, they extol their virtues highly; they are wholly and
entirely dedicated to the cause of the sense-bases. These
worldlings are being carried downstream by that flood of
craving and will not set themselves free from the misery
involving rebirth, ageing, dying, sorrow, lamentation, pain,
grief, despair and the whole mass of suffering.
In the reverese order, there is the learned and noble
disciple who finds no delight in the sense-bases, either
internal or external; who is neither infatuated with them
nor have their virtues extolled nor dedicated to their cause.
In such a learned noble disciple, there comes about the
extinction of craving;
through the extinction of craving, there comes about the
extinction of clinging;
through the extinction of clinging, there comes about the
extinction of the process of becoming;
through the extinction of the process of becoming, there
comes the extinction of rebirth;
through the extinction of rebirth, there comes about the
extinction of ageing, dying, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief
and despair. Thus comes about the extinction of this whole
mass of suffering. In this way, extinction is nibbna.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
nirodhanibbnapaho ahamo

126

9. nibbnalabhanapaha
Gaining of nibbna
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Venerable, do all beings gain nibbna?

Not all beings gain nibbna. But whoever by following the
right way of practice:
1.
knows the truth of suffering (dukkha sacca) which
should be known with supramundane knowledge
(abhieyye dhamme abhijnti); and which should
be known with the knowledge of comprehension
(parieyye dhamme parijnti);
2.
overcomes the origin of suffering (samudayasacca);
3.
develops the Noble Eightfold Path (maggasacca)
which should be developed (bhvetabba);
4.
realises the truth of the extinction of suffering
(nirodha sacca) which should be realised
(sacchiktabba).
Only such a being truly gains nibbna.

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Very reasonable, O Venerable Ngasena!

nibbnalabhanapaho navamo

127

10. nibbnasukhajnanapaha
State of nibbna
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O Venerable, does he who has not gained nibbna, know

how happy the state of nibbna is?
Yes, he who has not yet gained nibbna can know nibbna
is a happy state.
How can he know without his gaining nibbna?
Now what do you think? Do those, whose hands and feet
have not been cut off, know how sad a thing it is to have
ones hands and feet cut off?
Yes, that they know.
But how do they know it?
They know by hearing the sound of lamentation of those
whose hands and feet have been cut off.
Just so, it is by hearing the glad words of those who have
gained nibbna that they know nibbna is a happy state.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
nibbnasukhajnanapaho dasamo
nibbnavaggo catuttho
imasmi vagge dasa pah

128

Chapter 5
buddhavagga
Chapter pertaining to the Buddha
1.

buddhassa atthinatthibhvapaha
Is there a Buddha?
2. buddhassa anuttarabhvapaha
Excellence of the Buddha
3. buddhassa anuttarabhvajnanapaha
The Buddha is excellent and incomparable
4. dhammadihapaha
The venerable comprehends the dhamma
5. asa~kamanapaisandahanapaha
Rebirth without transmigration
6. vedag|paha
Self, soul, or ego-entity
7. aakyasa~kamanapaha
Transmigration of the soul
8. kammaphala-atthibhvapaha
Fruit of kamma
9. uppajjatijnanapaha
Knowledge of ones rebirth
10. buddhanidassanapaha
The Buddhas whereabouts

129
130
131
131
132
132
133
134
134
135

129

1. buddhassa atthinatthibhvapaha
Is there a Buddha?
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Venerable, have you seen the Buddha?

No, I have not, O King.
Then, have your teachers seen the Buddha?
No, they have not.
Well then, there is not a Buddha.
But have you seen the Himalayan river Uh?
No, I have not.
Or has your father ever seen the river Uh?
No, he also has not seen it.
Well then, there is not a river Uh.
Even if neither my father nor I have seen it, there is the
river Uh all the same.
Just so, even if neither my teachers nor I have seen the
Buddha, there is the Buddha all the same.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
buddhassa atthinatthibhvapaho pahamo

130

2. buddhassa anuttarabhvapaha
Excellence of the Buddha
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Is the Buddha excellent and incomparable?

Yes, He is.
How do you know, when you have not seen the Buddha ?
Now what do you think? Could those who have not already
seen the great ocean know that it is mighty, deep,
immeasurable, unfathomable that although these five great
rivers: the Ganges, Yamun, Aciravat, Sarab| and the
Mah flow into it constantly and continually, yet neither is
its emptiness nor its fullness affected thereby?
Yes, they could know that.
Even so, having seen the great noble disciples who have
entered the state of final emancipation, I know that the
Buddha is excellent and incomparable.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
buddhassa anuttarabhvapaho dutiyo

131

3. buddhassa anuttarabhvajnanapaha
The Buddha is excellent and incomparable
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Venerable, is it possible for others to know how excellent

and incomparable the Buddha is?
Yes, it is possible
How is it possible for others to know?
Once upon a time, the Venerable named Tissa was a
teacher of writing. Many years have passed since he died.
How is it that he is known?
He is known by his writing.
Even so, he who sees the dhamma sees the Buddha, for the
dhamma was taught by the Buddha.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
buddhassa anuttarabhvajnanapaho tatiyo

4. dhammadihapaha
The venerable comprehends the dhamma
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Venerable, do you comprehend the dhamma?

We, the disciples, train ourselves according to the dhamma
taught by the Buddha, and observe the disciplinary rules
promulgated by Him, for as long as life lasts.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
dhammadihapaho catuttho

132

5. asa~kamanapaisandahanapaha
Rebirth without transmigration
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Venerable, where there is no transmigration of a soul, can

there be rebirth?
Yes, there can be rebirth without transmigration.
How so? Give me an illustration.
Suppose a man were to light a lamp from another lamp.
How is it that the light transmigrate from one to the other?
No, it does not transmigrate.
Even so, is rebirth without transmigration.
Give me a further illustration.
Do you recollect, having learnt when you were a boy, some
verse or other from your teacher of poetry?
Yes, I recollect that.
Did that verse transmigrate from your teacher?
No, it did not.
Even so, is rebirth without transmigration.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
asa~kamanapaisandahanapaho pacamo

6. vedag|paha
Self, soul, or ego-entity
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Venerable, can the thing known as self, soul or ego-entity

be obtained in the ultimate sense?
No, it cannot.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
vedag|paho chaho

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7. aakyasa~kamanapaha
Transmigration of the soul
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Venerable, is there any being that transmigrates from this

body to another body?
No, O King.
If there is no being that transmigrates from this body to
another body, would there be any person who is released
from evil kamma results?
Yes, if one is not reborn, one becomes released from evil
kamma results. If, for whatever reason one is reborn, one
is not released from evil kamma results.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose a man were to steal another mans mangoes,
would that man deserve punishment?
Yes, he deserves punishment.
But if he would not have stolen the mangoes the other set
in the ground, why would he deserve punishment?
He would deserve punishment because the mangoes he
stole were derived from those that were planted.
Even so, if with the present mind-body complex, either
wholesome or unwholesome actions were performed, the
other mind-body complex is reborn and as such is not
released from the evil results.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
aakyasa~kamanapaho sattamo

134

8. kammaphala-atthibhvapaha
Fruit of kamma
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Venerable, if with the present mind-body complex, either

wholesome or unwholesome actions were performed,
where will the fruit and result of those actions be located?
The fruit and result of kamma tend to follow the mindbody complex, like a shadow that never leaves it.
Can anyone point out those fruits and results, saying: Here
they are, there they are?
No, no one can do that.
Give me an illustration.
Now what do you think? Can anyone point out the fruits
which a tree has not yet produced?
Not possible.
Even so, it is not possible.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
kammaphala-atthibhvapaho ahamo

9. uppajjatijnanapaha
Knowledge of ones rebirth
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Venerable, does he who is still in the cycle of rebirth know

thus: I am going to be born again?
Yes, he does.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose a farmer were to plant some seeds and it were to
rain well, would he know thus: The crop is sure to come.
Yes, he would know that.
Even so, he who is still in the cycle of rebirth know thus: I
am going to be born again.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
uppajjatijnanapaho navamo

135

10. buddhanidassanapaha
The Buddhas whereabouts
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Venerable, is there such a person as the Buddha?

Yes, there is.
Can He then, be pointed out saying thus: Here He is, there
He is?
The Buddha has attained final emancipation, without a
residue of the mind-body complex remaining, and as such,
it is not possible to point Him out.
Give me an illustration.
Now what do you think? When there is a great body of fire
blazing, is it possible to point out any one flame that has
gone out, saying: Here it is, there it is?
No, it is not possible. That flame has become extinct and
ceased to exist.
Even so, the Buddha has attained final emancipation,
without a residue of the mind-body complex remaining,
and as such, it is not possible to point Him out. It is
however, possible to point out the Buddha by referring to
the body of the dhamma. For the dhamma was taught by
the Buddha.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
buddhanidassanapaho dasamo
buddhavaggo pacamo
imasmi vagge dasa pah

136

Chapter 6
sativagga
On mindfulness
1.

kyapityyanapaha
Ones body
2. sabba|bhvapaha
The omniscient Buddha
3. mahpurisalakkhaapaha
Marks of a great man
4. bhagavato brahmacripaha
A brahmacri
5. bhagavato upasampadpaha
The Blessed Ones ordination
6. assubesajjbesajjapaha
Tears provide a cure
7. sargavtargannkaraapaha
Passion
8. papatihnapaha
The dwelling place of wisdom
9. sasrapaha
The round of rebirth
10. cirakatasaraapaha
Recollection of the past
11. abhijnantasatipaha
Ascertaining the arising of mindfulness

137
138
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137

1. kyapiyyanapaha
Ones body
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O Venerable, are samaa like you attached to their bodies?

No, O King, all samaa do not.
Then why do you nourish and lavish attention on it?
Do you not, while on the battlefield, get wounded at one
time or another?
Yes, I have had wounds.
In such cases, is not the wound anointed with antiseptic,
smeared with ointments or bound up in a bandage?
Yes, the wound, in such cases, is treated with such care.
Is the wound dear to you that you anoint it with antiseptic,
smear it with ointments or bind it up in a bandage, so that
the flesh may grow again?
Yes, such things are done to it.
Even so, samaa are not attached to their bodies. Though
they are not attached to their bodies, they still carry the
body not for getting themselves immersed in craving but
for the sake of holding up the sublime ssana. In fact, the
Blessed One declared that the body is like a sore and as
such, they are bearing the body just like a sore, and not for
getting themselves immersed in craving for it. The Blessed
One also said:
Covered with a skin that is moist,
a veritable ulcer it is like.
Through its nine doors and infinitesimal pores,
stinking and foul are fluids that always flow.
[Suttanipta 197-198]

Very reasonable, Venerable.

kyapiyyanapaho pahamo

138

2. sabba|bhvapaha
The omniscient Buddha
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Venerable, was the Buddha omniscient? Did He foresee all

things?
Yes, the Buddha is omniscient. He foresees all things.
Then why was it that in spite of His omniscience and
foresight, the Buddha laid down rules for the bhikkh| from
time to time only as and when the occasion arose?
Have you any physician who knows all the medicinal drugs
to be found on earth?
Yes, I have such a physician.
When then, does that physician administer medicinal drugs
to a patient, only at the opportune moment, when the illness
has already set in or before that?
The physician administers medicinal drugs to a patient only
at the opportune moment and not before that.
Even so, the Buddha is omniscient and He foresees all
things. He did not lay down rules for the bhikkh| before
the opportune moment. It was only from time to time and
as occasion arose that He laid down rules which were not
to contravene as long as their lives last.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
sabba|bhvapaho dutiyo

139

3. mahpurisalakkhaapaha
Marks of a great man
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Venerable, is it true that the Buddha is endowed with the

32 bodily marks of a great man and graced with the 80
subsidiary characteristics; that He was golden in colour,
His skin pliant, refined and brilliant and radiating from
Him is an aura of a fathom?
Yes, the Buddha is such.
But were the mother and father of the Buddha also
endowed with such qualities?
No, they were not, O King.
In that case, it is not likely that the Buddha was endowed
with these bodily marks. In all probability, he was a son
either like his mother or those on the mothers side or he
was like his father or those on the fathers side.
Is there such a thing as a lotus flower with manifold petals?
Yes, there is.
Where does it grow up?
It is produced in mud, and in water it comes to perfection.
But does the lotus resemble the mud (whence it springs up)
either in colour, or in smell, or in taste?
No, it does not.
Or does it resemble the water in colour, smell, or taste?
Not that either.
Just so, the Buddha is endowed with the 32 bodily marks
of a great man and graced with the 80 subsidiary
characteristics; that He was golden in colour, His skin
pliant, refined and brilliant and radiating from Him is an
aura of a fathom, even though His parents were not.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
mahpurisalakkhaapaho tatiyo

140

4. bhagavato brahmacripaha
A brahmacri
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Venerable, was the Buddha a Brahmacri1?

Yes, O King, He was.
Was He then a disciple of Brahm?
Have you a state elephant which is the chief of elephants?
Yes, I have.
Well then, does the state elephant which is the chief of
elephants, at times, trumpet the herons cry2?
Yes, it trumpets aloud at times.
But is he then, on account, a follower of the herons?
No.
Now tell me, is Brahm possessed of the knowledge of the
dhamma that is worth knowing or is he not?
Yes, he is possessed of such knowledge.
In such a case, Brahm is surely a follower of the Buddha.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
bhagavato brahmacripaho catuttho

Notes:
1. Brahmacri (adj): a religious student, celibate, chaste, holy.
Brahmacariya: the duties or practice of a religious student, celibacy,
chastity, purity; the life of holiness led by the sanctified, living
according to the Blessed Ones precepts. Brhmao: a Brahmin; an
arahant. Though the Blessed One constantly spoke against the doctrines
and pretensions of the Brahmins, he adopted the appellation brhmaa
into his own system, using it to designate an arahant, or one who has
obtained final sanctification. (A Dictionary of the Pi Language by
R.C. Childers.)
2. The herons cry: a technical term for an elephants trumpeting.

141

5. bhagavato upasampadpaha
The Buddhas ordination
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Venerable, is ordination a good thing?

Yes, ordination is a good and beautiful thing.
Was there or was there not, a formal ordination for the
Buddha?
When the Buddha attained omniscience at the foot of the
bodhi tree, that was to Him an ordination. There was no
conferring of ordination upon Him as others, in the way
the Buddha laid down rules which His bhikkh| were not to
contravene as long as their lives last.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
bhagavato upasampadpaha pacamo

6. assubesajjbesajjapaha
Tears provide a cure
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Venerable, there is a man who weeps at the death of his

mother. There is also another man who weeps out of love
for the dhamma. Of these two, whose tears provide a cure
for extinguishing the fires of passion (rag) and whose
tears do not so provide?
The tears of the first man are polluted and hot with greed,
hate and delusion. The tears of the other man are
unpolluted and cool on account of rapture (pti) and
agreeable feeling (somanassa). The tears that are cool
provide a cure for extinguishing the fires of passion. The
tears that are hot do not provide such a cure.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
assubesajjbesajjapaho chaho

142

7. sargavtargannkaraapaha
passion
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Venerable, what is the distinction between one who is full

of passion and one who is not?
One is overpowered by craving and the other is not; such is
the distinction.
What is meant by overpowered by craving, and not
overpowered by craving?
It means one is prone to be in want, while the other is not.
It is a matter of common observation for me, that he who
has passion and he who has not; both of them alike, desire
what is good to eat, either hard or soft, and neither of them
desire what is not good to eat.
The man with passion, in eating his food, enjoys both the
taste and the lust that arises from taste. But the man who is
void of passion, experiences the taste only, and not the lust
arising therefrom.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
sargavtargannkaraapaha

8. papatihnapaha
The dwelling place of wisdom
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Venerable, where does wisdom dwell conspicuously?

Nowhere, O King.
Then, there is no such thing as wisdom?
Answer me, where does the wind dwell conspicuously?
Nowhere.
Then, there is no such thing as the wind.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
papatihnapaho ahamo

143

9. sasrapaha
The round of rebirth
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O Venerable, when you speak of the round of rebirth

(sasra), what does that mean?
A being born here, dies here. Having died here, it is born
again elsewhere. Having been born there, there it dies.
Having died there, it is born again elsewhere. That is, what
is meant by the term, round of rebirth.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose a man were to eat a ripe mango and set the seed in
the ground. From that ripe mango, a great tree would grow
and bear fruit. That man would then eat the ripe mango
from that tree and plant its seed also in the ground. From
that mango seed also a great tree would grow and it again
bears fruit.
By this way, the propagation will continue and there will be
mango trees all the time. Even so, a being born here dies
here. Having died here it is born again elsewhere. Having
been born there, there it dies. Having died there it is born
again elsewhere. That is, O King, what is meant by the
term round of rebirth.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
sasrapaho navamo

144

10. cirakatasaraapaha
Recollection of the past
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Venerable, by what does one recollect what is past and

done long ago?
By mindfulness, one recollects.
But is it not, by the mind instead of mindfulness that we
recollect?
Do you recollect any matters, which you have done and
forgotten?
Yes, I recollect.
Were you without a mind at the time of forgetting?
No, it is not that I was without a mind at the time of
forgetting. But my mindfulness failed me then.
Then why do you say, that it is by the mind, and not
mindfulness that we recollect?
Very reasonable, Venerable.
cirakatasaraapaho dasamo

145

11. abhijnantasatipaha
Ascertaining the arising of mindfulness
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Venerable, does mindfulness always arise subjectively or

does it arise due to its being stirred up by suggestion from
outside?
Mindfulness arises both subjectively and due to its being
stirred up by suggestion from outside.
If all mindfulness were to arise always subjectively, there
can then be no mindfulness that arises due to its being
stirred up by suggestion from outside.
O King, if there were no mindfulness that arises due to its
being stirred up by suggestion from outside, then the
artisans (such as ivory workers and artists) would have no
need of practice, or art or schooling, and teachers would be
useless. But if there is mindfulness that arises due to its
being stirred up by suggestion from outside, then the
artisans would have need of practice, or art, or schooling,
and teachers would be useful.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
abhijnantasatipaho ekadasamo
sativaggo chaho
imasami vagge ekdasa pah

146

Chapter 7
ar|padhammavavatthnavagga
On mental phenomena
1.

sati-uppajjanapaha
Arising of mindfulness
2. buddhaguasatipailbhapaha
Virtues of a Buddha
3. dukkhappahnavyamapaha
Getting rid of suffering
4. brahmalokapaha
Distance to the Brahma world
5. dvinna lokuppannna samakabhvapaha
Rebirth in two different worlds
6. bojjha~gapaha:
7 factors of enlightenment
7. ppapuna appnappabhvapaha
Demerit or merit
8. jnantjnantappakaraapaha
Heinousness of an unwholesome deed
9. uttarakurukdigamanapaha: Space travel
10. dghahipaha: Bones of great length
11. asssapasssanirodhapaha
Suppressing the in- and out-breathing
12. samuddapaha: The ocean
13. samudda-ekarasapaha: Taste of the ocean
14. sukhumapaha: The minutest thing
15. viannatthapaha
Diverse meanings of consciousness
16. ar|padhammavavatthnadukkarapaha
Analysing mental phenomena
milindapahapucchvisajjan: Questions of King
Milinda and answers thereof

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147

1. sati-uppajjanapaha
Arising of mindfulness
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Venerable, in how many ways does mindfulness arise?

In 16 ways, O King.
What are the 16?
Mindfulness arises through:
1.
subjective knowledge,
2.
incitement by others,
3.
remembering important mind-objects,
4.
knowing what conduces to well-being,
5.
similarity of mind-object,
6.
dissimilarity of mind-object,
7.
hearing the words spoken,
8.
reading of signs and symptoms,
9.
reminders by others,
10. alphabetical reading,
11. mathematical calculation,
12. learning by heart,
13. mind-development exercise,
14. consultation of the teachings and reference books,
15. keeping near at hand, things that serve as reminders,
16. former experiences.
Just as the Venerable nanda and the female householder,
Khujjuttar who could recite the whole of the tipiaka; just
as those who are possessed of jtissaraa could
remember what had happened in their past experiences.
Even so, mindfulness arises through subjective knowledge.
Just as when others continue to remind one who is by
nature forgetful, even so, mindfulness arises through
incitement.

148

Just as a king remembers his coronation day, just as a

noble one remembers the day of his attainment of the
fruition of stream-entering. Even so, mindfulness arises
through remembering important mind-objects.
Just as one thinks of a certain place where one was
fortunate, with the reflection: This is the place where I
was fortunate. Even so, mindfulness arises through
knowing what conduces to well-being.
Just as one thinks of a certain place where one was
unfortunate, with the reflection: This is the place where I
was unfortunate. Even so, mindfulness arises through
knowing what does not conduce to well-being.
Just as on seeing one like them we call to mind the mother
or father; brother or elder or younger sister; on seeing a
camel, ox or an ass, we call to mind others like them. Even
so, mindfulness arises through similarity of mind-object.
Just as when we remember that such and such a colour,
sound, smell, taste, or touch belong to such and such a
person, even so, mindfulness arises through dissimilarity of
mind-object.
Just as when one who is by nature forgetful is reminded by
others and then himself remembers. Even so, mindfulness
arises through hearing the words spoken.
Just as a person recognises the bullocks by examining their
limbs and peculiar twisting of hair and such other marks,
even so, mindfulness arises through reading of signs and
symptoms.

149

Just as when one who is by nature forgetful is reminded

frequently by such prompting words as: Friend, remember
this; friend, remember that. Even so, mindfulness arises
through reminders by others.
Just as when one knows by the training he has received in
writing that such and such a letter ought to follow after
such and such a one. Even so, mindfulness arises through
alphabetical reading.
Just as when those who know by the training they have
received in mathematics can calculate in large figures, even
so, mindfulness arises through mathematical calculation.
Just as the repeaters of the teachings by their skill in
learning by heart recollect so much, even so, mindfulness
arise through learning by heart.
Just as the bhikkhu in this ssana is able to remember what
had happened in his past experiences. In which way? In one
existence, or in two or three or four or five or ten or
twenty or thirty or forty or fifty or a hundred or a thousand
or in several hundreds of thousands of existences in the
past, to the effect that: There I had such and such a name,
of such and such a lineage and caste, lived on such and
such food, experienced such and such pains and pleasures
and had such and such a span of years. And when I fell
from that I was reborn here. Thus does he remember in
full; even so, mindfulness arises through minddevelopment exercise.
It is just as when kings, who are about to make decisions,
(such as passing of sentence in a criminal proceeding) are
forgetful of the rules and regulations bearing on the case.

150

In such a case they would say: Bring such and such book
here, to revive their memory. Even so, mindfulness arises
through consultation of the teachings and reference books.
Just as the goods and treasures kept near at hand keep on
reminding the owner, even so, mindfulness arises through
keeping near at hand things that serve as reminders.

km:

It is just as one remembers a thing because one has seen it,

or a sound because one has heard it, or an odour because
one has smelt it, or a taste because one has tasted it, or a
bodily impression because one has touched it, or a mentalobject because one has conceived it. Even so, mindfulness
arises through former experience. In these 16 ways do
mindfulness arise.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
sati-uppajjanapaho pahamo

151

2. buddhaguasatipailbhapaha
Virtues of a Buddha
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Venerable, it is said: Who so having done unwholesome

deeds for a hundred years, were to remember, at his dying
moment, a single one of the virtues of a Buddha, such a
one would be reborn in the abode of heavenly beings.
It is also said: A single act of destroying life bring rebirth
in the realms of hell. These two sayings I do not believe.
O King, what do you think? Would even a tiny stone float
on the water without a boat?
No, it would not float.
But, would not a hundred cart-loads of stone float on water
if they were loaded in a boat?
Yes, they would float right enough.
Wholesome deeds should be regarded as the boat.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
buddhaguasatipailbhapaho dutiyo

152

3. dukkhappahnavyamapaha
Getting rid of suffering
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Venerable, do you make effort to get rid of suffering of

the past, future or present?
No, we do not make effort of such nature.
If you are not making effort of such nature, what purpose
then are you making effort?
We make the effort with our aim and object expressed
thus: How shall the suffering of the present come to their
extinction? How shall the suffering other than that of the
present not arise again?
But is there such a thing as suffering of the future?
No, there is no such thing as suffering of the future.
You must be highly intelligent to be making effort to get
rid of the suffering of the future that does not exist.
Has it happened that rival kings rose up against you as
enemies and opponents?
Yes.
What then, was it when your enemy had arrived with the
attacking forces that you set to work to have moats dug,
city walls built up, city gates and turrets erected, and stores
of food collected?
No, all defensive preparation were made in advance.
Was it when your enemy had arrived with the attacking
forces that you had yourself trained in the management of
war elephants, or horsemanship and in the use of war
chariot, and in archery, swordsmanship and lance-play?
No, I had learnt all that beforehand.
With what object was all this learning pursued?
With the object of warding off future danger.
How so is there such a thing as future danger?
No, there is no such thing.

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Then, by making effort to ward off future danger that does

not actually exist, you kings have become people of
outstanding intelligence.
Venerable, give me a further illustration.
Now what do you think? Is it when you feel thirst that you
would set to work to have a well or a square tank dug, or a
reservoir constructed with the intention of getting some
water to drink?
No, all such preparations were made in advance.
With what object were all these preparations made?
With the object of warding off future thirst, all these
preparations were made in advance.
Is there such a thing as future thirst?
No.
Then, by making effort to ward off future thirst that does
not exist, you kings have become people of outstanding
intelligence.
Give me a further illustration.
Now what do you think? Is it when you feel hungry that
you set to work to have the fields ploughed and seeds
planted with the intention of having a royal feast?
No. All such preparations were made in advance.
With what object were all these preparation made?
With the object of warding off all future hunger, all these
preparations were made in advance.
Is there such a thing now as future hunger?
No.
Then, by making effort to ward off future hunger that does
not actually exist, you kings have become people of
outstanding intelligence.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
dukkhappahnavyamapaho tatiyo

154

4. brahmalokapaha
Distance to the Brahma world
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Venerable, how far is it from this human world to the

world of Brahm?
Very far is it, from this human world to Brahma world. If a
rock as big as the summit of a house were to fall from
there at the rate of 48,000 leagues1 per day and night, it
would take 4 months of non-stop falling before it reaches
the earth.
Your Teachings say that a bhikkhu who has supramundane
powers and mastery over his mind (cetovasippatto) can
make himself vanish from this world and make his
appearance in the Brahma world, as quickly as a strong
man could stretch forth his bent arm, or bent it again if it
were stretched out. This is a saying I cannot believe. How
is it possible that he could travel so quickly through so
many hundreds of league?
Which is your birth place, O King?
Alasanda is my birth place.
And how far is Alasanda from the city of Sgala?
It is 200 leagues from here.
Do you know for certain of any matters you once did there
and now recollect?
Yes, I know of it.
So quickly have you covered the distance of 200 leagues.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
brahmalokapaho catuttho

Note:
1. yojana: a classical division of length, a league of about 7 miles.

155

5. dvinna lokuppannna samakabhvapaha

Rebirth in two different worlds
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Venerable, if a man were to die in this human world and be

reborn in the Brahma world, and another were to die here
in Sgala and be reborn in Kasmra1, which of these two
would take longer and which, shorter time to be reborn?
Both of these men will be reborn at the same time.
Give me an illustration.
Where is the town where you were born?
There is a village called Kalasi. It was there I was born.
And how far is Kalasi from this city of Sgala?
About 200 leagues.
How far is Kasmra from this city of Sgala?
Twelve leagues.
Now I ask of you, just think of Kalasi village.
I have done so.
And now I ask of you, just think also of Kasmra.
I have done so.
Which place takes you longer to think of, and which is the
place you have thought of quickly?
Both places take an equal time to think of.
Even so, if a man were to die here in this human world and
be reborn in the Brahma world, and another were to die
here in Sgala and be reborn in Kasmra, both will take an
equal amount of time to be reborn in those places.
Give me a further illustration.
Now, what do you think? Suppose two birds were flying in
the sky and one of them were to alight on a tall tree and the
other were to alight on a low tree. If both of them alighted
at the same moment, whose shadow would show up first on
the ground and whose shadow would show up on the
ground long thereafter?

156

km:
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The two shadows will show up simultaneously on the

ground.
Even so, if a man were to die here in this human world and
be reborn in the Brahma world, and another were to die
here in Sgala and be reborn in Kasmra, both will take an
equal amount of time to be reborn at different realms.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
dvinna lokuppannna samakabhvapaho pacamo

Note:
1. Kasmra: Pi spelling of Kashmir.

157

6. bojjha~gapaha
Seven factors of enlightenment
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Venerable, how many factors of enlightenment are there?

There are 7 factors of enlightenment.
How many factors of enlightenment does one need to
comprehend the Truth?
One comprehends the Truth, beginning with one factor, and
that is the factor pertaining to the investigation of
phenomena (dhammavicaya sambojjha~ga). But for it to
complete its investigation, it has to have the accompanying
6 other factors; making a total of 7 factors. They by nature
of their function, must work as one.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
bojjha~gapaho chaho

158

7. ppapuna appnappabhvapaha
Demerit or merit
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Venerable, which of the two, demerit or merit is

predominant?
O King, merit is predominant and demerit is less.
But why?
When he who has done demeritorious deeds is remorseful
and acknowledges his evil doing, demerit does not
increase.
He who performs meritorious deeds feels no remorse, and
feeling no remorse, gladness will spring up within him, and
joy will arise. So rejoicing, he is at peace; being at peace,
he will experience a blissful feeling of content, and in that
bliss, his mind is at rest.

km:

He who is thus at that state becomes endowed with

concentration and knows things as they really are. For that
reason, merit increases. A man, for example, though his
hands and feet are cut off, if he made an offer merely of a
sprout of lotus to the Buddha, would not be reborn in the
realms of hell for 91 world-period. For that reason, merit is
predominant.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
ppapunam appnappabhvapaho sattamo

159

8. jnantjnantappakaraapaha
Heinousness of an unwholesome deed
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Venerable, suppose a man were to do an unwholesome

deed knowing the heinousness of such deed and another
man were to do an unwholesome deed without knowing the
heinousness thereof. Of these two, which unwholesome
deed is more heinous?
If a man were to do an unwholesome deed knowing the
heinousness of such deed and another man were to do an
unwholesome deed without knowing the heinousness
thereof, the one who does so without knowing the
heinousness thereof, is more heinous.
In that case, are we to punish doubly any prince or kings
counsellor who does an unwholesome deed without
knowing the heinousness thereof?
But what do you think? If a man were to seize hold of a
fiery mass of iron which is aglow with heat knowing its
harmful effects, and another man were to seize hold
similarly, but without knowing the harmful effects, which
of these two men would be more burnt?
Whoever seizes hold without knowing the harmful effects
will be more burnt.
Thus, whoever does an unwholesome deed without
knowing the heinousness thereof, the heinousness of the
unwholesome deed of such a one is more.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
jnantjnantappakaraapaho ahamo

160

9. uttarakurukdigamanapaha
Space travel
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Venerable, is there anyone, who can travel physically in

space to the northern universe, the Brahma world or any
other universe?
Yes, there are people, composed of the four primary
physical elements (mahbh|ta) who can travel physically
either to the northern universe, the Brahma world or any
other universe.
How is that possible?
Do you recollect having jumped to a height of half or a
cubit above the ground?
Yes, I remember having jumped to a height of eight cubits.
How did you manage that?
I fixed my mind on the idea of alighting at a certain spot,
and at that moment of my determination, my body seem
light to me.
Even so can a bhikkhu who is possessed of supramundane
powers and has the mastery over his mind, when he has
made up his mind, rise up to the occasion, travel through
space by means of his mind.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
uttarakurukdigamanapaho navamo

161

10. dghahipaha
Bones of great length
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Venerable, it is said that there are bones of 100 leagues in

length. Now, there is no tree even 100 leagues in length.
How can there be bones so long?
Have you not heard of the saying: There are in the great
ocean, fishes 500 leagues in length?
Yes, I have heard of such.
If so, could not the fishes that are 500 leagues in length
have bones 100 leagues long?
Very reasonable, Venerable.
dghahipaho dasamo

11. asssapasssanirodhapaha
Suppressing the in- and out-breathing
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Venerable, is it true that it is possible to practise the

suppression of in- and out-breathing?
Yes, it is possible.
How is that possible?
O King, tell me; have you ever heard a man snoring?
Yes, I have.
Would not that sound stop if he bent his body?
Yes.
Then surely, if that snoring would stop at the mere bending
of the body of an untrained worldling surely it is
possible for one trained in body, in conduct, in mind and in
wisdom and who has attained to the fourth stage on the
path, to suppress the breathing.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
asssapasssanirodhapaho ekadasamo

162

12. samuddapaha
The ocean
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Venerable, there is the expression: ocean, ocean; why is

the water called the ocean?
Because there is just as much salt as water, just as much
water as salt, therefore it is called the ocean.
Very reasonable, Venerable!
samuddapaho dvdasamo

13. samudda-ekarasapaha
Taste of the ocean
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Venerable, why is the ocean all of one taste; the taste of

salt?
Because the water in it has stood for so long; it is therefore
all of one taste, the taste of salt.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
samudda-ekarasapaho terasamo

14. sukhumapaha
Question on the minutest thing
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Venerable, can even all the minutest things be divided?

Yes, all minutest things can be divided.
What are the minutest things?
The dhamma, subtle (sukhuma) or coarse (th|la) are the
most minute of all minutest things there are in existence.
But this is not true of all dhamma. But whatever dhamma
that can be divided can only be by wisdom and there is no
other quality that can divide dhamma except wisdom.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
sukhumapaho cuddasamo

163

15. viannatthapaha
Diverse meanings of consciousness
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Venerable, these three: consciousness, wisdom and soul;

are they all different both in essence or the same in essence
differing only in the letter?
Cognising an object is the characteristic of consciousness;
right understanding is the characteristic of wisdom; but a
soul (or vital principle said to be inside the body) does not
exist.
If a soul or ego-entity does not exist, then who sees, hears,
smells, tastes, feels and cognises mental objects?
If as you say, the thing inside the body which is known as
the self, soul, or ego-entity, etc., can see visible objects
through the eye and if the doors of the eye were destroyed,
could that soul or ego-entity see clearly out there in the
great space?
If the ears, the nose, the tongue, or the body is destroyed;
could that same soul, or ego-entity hear, smell, taste, feel
clearly in the great space?
No, it does not.
In such a case, the thing known as soul, vital principle or
ego-entity does not exist.
Very reasonable, Venerable.
viannatthapaho pannarasasmo

164

16. ar|padhammavavatthnadukkarapaha
Analysing mental phenomena
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What is difficult to do has been done by the Buddha.

And what is that?
To analyse the mind and mental concomitants both
belonging to the mental phenomena and arising from a
single mind-object and to declare the constituents saying
this phenomenon is contact, feeling, perception, volition,
and consciousness. This is what is meant by the expression:
What is difficult to do has been done by the Buddha.
Give me an illustration.
Suppose a man were to venture out into the ocean and,
tasted some water from the ocean. Would he be able to
determine and say this water is from the Ganges, Yamun,
Aciravat, Sarab|, or Mah?
No, it would not be possible to achieve that.
Much more difficult than determining the waters as
aforesaid would be to analyse the mind and mental
concomitants both belonging to the mental phenomena and
arising from a single mind-object and to declare the
constituents saying this phenomenon is contact, feeling,
perception, volition, and consciousness.
Very reasonable, O Venerable Ngasena!
ar|padhammavavatthnadukkarapaho solasamo
ar|padhammavavatthna vaggo sattamo
imasmi vagge soassa pah

165

milindapahapucchvisajjan
Questions of King Milinda and answers thereof
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O King, do you know what time is it now?

Venerable, I know. The first watch of the night is now
passed. The middle watch is now going on. The torches are
lit. The four banners are ordered to be raised, and the gifts,
fit only for royalty, are being issued from the treasury and
are arriving now.

Having thus made the reply, King Milinda begged the Venerable
Ngasenas excuse and left the chamber accompanied by his
ministers to see to it that the gift cloak to be offered to the
Venerable is ready. Away from the audience chamber, the
ministers enquired: Your Majesty, is the Venerable Ngasena
really great? Is he truly wise?
km:

Yes, my men. Venerable Ngasena is truly great and wise.

Were there a teacher like him and a pupil like me, it would
not take long in seeking out the truth.

After holding these talks with the ministers, the king went to the
Venerable Ngasena again. Then, the king pleased with the
explanations given of the questions he had put forth, made the
offering of the rare cloak of woollen stuff worth 100,000 pieces.
km:

Venerable, I have arranged that you shall be provided with

your daily meal in 108 meals1 and also offer you the choice
of anything that is allowable according to the vinaya.

But the Venerable Ngasena politely declined the offer saying: I

have enough for my livelihood, O King.

166

The king, however, pleaded: O Venerable, we are fully aware

that you are sufficiently provided for. However, we asked that
out of compassion for us and to preserve both our respectability
from possible rumours that since the Venerable Ngasena could
arouse in King Milinda a spirit of devotional veneration but
received no offerings from him; and I from the possibility of a
public rumour that King Milinda is a devout dyaka but does
nothing to show it.
vn:
km:

Then, let it be as you wish.

Just as the lion is the king of beasts, when put into a cage,
though it were of gold, would turn his face longingly to the
outside. Even so do I, though I dwell in the world of
household life, turn my thoughts longingly to the outside
symbolised by the dhamma and discipline. But, if I were to
give up household life and renounce the world, I would not
live long, for so many are my enemies.

Then the Venerable Ngasena, having thus solved the questions

put by King Milinda, rose from his seat and departed to the
hermitage.
Not long after Venerable Ngasena had gone, King Milinda
thought over to himself: What are the questions that I have put
forth and what are the answers that the Venerable Ngasena had
given? Thereafter he again thought: I had propounded my
questions rightly and the Venerable Ngasena had given proper
answers to all of them.
To Ngasena who had returned to the hermitage, the following
thought also occurred: What are the questions that King Milinda
had asked and what are the answers that I had given? Thereafter
he again thought: King Milinda propounded the questions rightly
and I had given proper answers to all of them.

167

The night then having passed and morning arrived; the Venerable
Ngasena robed himself and carrying the alms-bowl, went to
King Milindas palace and sat down on the seat prepared for him.
King Milinda paid homage to the Venerable Ngasena and then
sat down respectfully on his side. Having thus sat, the king
addressed Venerable Ngasena thus:
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Venerable; do not suppose that I passed the rest of the

night revelling in the thought: I have questioned the
Venerable Ngasena. Throughout the rest of the night, I
was thinking: What are the questions that I had put forth
and what are the answers the Venerable One had given. I
had propounded my questions rightly and the Venerable
One had given proper answers to all of them.
O King, do not suppose that I passed the rest of the night
revelling in the thought: I had answered all the questions
that you, O King, had put forth. Throughout the rest of the
night, I was thinking: What are the questions that King
Milinda had put forth and what are the answers that I had
given. King Milinda had propounded his questions rightly
and I had given proper answers to all of them.

It is in this way that the two great men congratulated each other
on what they had spoken well.
milindapahapucchvisajjan nihit
Note:
1. Refer to pi original version for details on this 108 meals.

168

Milindapaha
Division IV
meakapaha
Question on dilemmas

169

meakapahrambhakath
The dilemmas
King Milindas aspiration

171

ahamantaparivajjanyahna
Places that should be avoided

172

ahamantavinsakapuggl
The 8 individuals who spoil discussions

174

navaguyhamantavidhasaka
The 9 individuals who reveal secrets

175

aha papailbakraa
The 8 causes of the advance,
the ripening of insight

176

cariyagua
The qualities of a good teacher

177

upsakagua
The good qualities of a lay disciple

179

170

Master of words and sophistry,

clever and wise
Milinda tried to test great Ngasena's skill.
Leaving him not,
again and yet again,
He questioned and cross-questioned him,
until his own skill was proved foolishness.
Then he became a student of the Dhamma.
All night, in secrecy,
he pondered o'er
The ninefold teachings,
and therein he found
Dilemmas hard to solve,
and full of snares.
And thus he thought: The conquering Buddha's words
Are many-sided, some explanatory,
Some spoken as occasion rose to speak,
Some dealing fully with essential points.
Through ignorance of what, each time, was meant
There will be strife hereafter
as to what
The King of Righteousness has thus laid down
In these diverse and subtle utterances.
Let me now gain great Ngasena's ear,
And putting to him that which seems so strange
And hard - yea contradictory - get him
To solve it.
So in future times, when men
Begin to doubt, the light of his solutions
Shall guide them, too, along the path of Truth.

171

King Milindas aspiration

King Milinda, when the night was turning into day, and dawn was
approaching, with hands clasped and raised to his forehead, called
to mind the Blessed Ones of the past, the present and the future
and solemnly undertook the observance of the eightfold rules of
conduct: For seven days from now I will take upon myself the
observance of the eight rules of virtue and also practise austerity.
Armed with this practice and thus pleasing my teacher, Ngasena,
will I shall make known to him through questions, my doubts and
confusions.
So King Milinda laying aside his usual dress and ornaments, clad
only in yellow-stained robes, with a pull-over cap on his head
which serves to bear the appearance of being shaven; he aspired
to a short period of ascetic living, thus: I aspire the eightfold
discipline of living for a period of seven days. For this seven
days I undertake:
not to inflict punishment, a duty incumbent upon a ruler;
not to give way to thoughts of passion;
not to give way to thoughts of ill will;
not to give way to thoughts of delusion;
to be meek and submissive in dealing with slaves and
menials;
to be mindful of every bodily or verbal act;
to be mindful over the sixfold sense-bases;
to fill my heart with thoughts of loving-kindness towards
all beings.
King Milinda aspired to fulfil and establish his mind in these
eightfold rules of virtue for seven days, without leaving his
palace.

172

ahamantaparivajjanyahna
Places that should be avoided
At dawn on the eighth day, he took his breakfast early and then
with bowed head, eyes towards the ground, gentle in manners,
mind that was clear, happy, elated and pure, he approached the
Venerable Ngasena. Bowing down at his feet, he stood
respectfully on one side and addressed the venerable.
km:

There is a certain matter, O Venerable, that I desire to talk

over with you alone. I wish no third person to be present.
In some deserted spot, some secluded place in the forest, fit
in all the eight respects for a samaa. There should this
point of mine be put. And therein let there be nothing hid
from me, nothing kept secret. I am now in a fit state to
hear secret things when we are deep in consultation. The
meaning of what I say can be made clear by illustration. As
it is to the broad earth, O Venerable, that it is right to
entrust treasure when the occasion arises for laying
treasure by, so is it to me that it is right to entrust secret
things when we are deep in consultation.

Then having gone with Venerable Ngasena to a secluded spot,

he further said.
km:

There are eight kinds of places, Venerable, which ought to

be altogether avoided by a man who desires consultation.
No wise man will talk a matter over in such places, or the
matter falls to the ground and no benefit will accrue
thereto. What are the eight? Uneven ground, places feared
by people, windy places, screened or walled areas,
religious places such as houses of deities, roads and
highways, battle fields, and public bathing places.

173

vn:
km:

O King, what is the objection to these places?

On uneven ground; results produced are scattered, diffused,
down-sliding and coming to nothing.
Places feared by people; the mind is disturbed, and does
not see the resultant factors clearly.
In windy places; the voice is incoherent.
Screened or walled areas; there are eavesdroppers.
In religious places such as houses of deities; the results of
discussions would tend to be dilatory.
Discussions on roads and highways are apt to be futile.
Discussions held on a battle field is liable to be hampered
by stirring influences.
Discussions at public bathing places are quickly leaked.
These are the 8 places to be avoided when discussions are
being held.

174

ahamantavinsakapuggal
The 8 individuals who spoil discussions
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There are 8 kinds of individual who, when in discussion,

spoil the discussion. They are those prone to be: passionate,
angry, deluded, proud, covetous, slothful, dogmatic, and
young and foolish. These are the eight.
What is the objection to each of these 8?
He who is prone to be:
passionate, spoils the discussion by his passion;
angry, spoils the discussion by his anger;
deluded, spoils the discussion by his delusion;
proud, spoils the discussion by his pride;
covetous, spoils the discussion by his covetousness;
slothful, spoils the discussion by his sloth;
dogmatic, spoils the discussion by his dogmas;
young and foolish, spoils the discussion by his
immaturity and folly.
Therefore it is said: The passionate, angry, or deluded
man; the proud, the covetous, or the slothful man; the man
of dogmas and the young fool - these 8 are spoilers of
discussions.

175

navaguyhamantavidhasaka
The 9 individuals who reveal secrets
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Venerable, there are 9 kinds of individual who reveal

secrets. They are those prone to be: passionate, angry,
deluded, timid, greedy for gain, also, a woman, a drunkard,
a eunuch, and a child.
What is the objection to talking over with each of these 9
individuals?
The objection is as follows; he who is prone to be:
passionate, reveals a secret in obedience to some
passion;
angry, reveals a secret in consequence to some ill
will;
deluded, reveals a secret under some mistake;
timid, reveals a secret through fear;
greedy for gain, reveals a secret to benefit from it.
Also,
a woman reveals a secret through infirmity;
a drunkard reveals a secret in his eagerness for
drinks;
a eunuch reveals a secret because of an unbalanced
mind;
a child reveals a secret through fickleness.
Therefore, it is said: The passionate, angry, deluded or
timid man, and he who seeks for gain; a woman, drunkard,
eunuch or a child make up the 9 individuals.
These 9, in this world are fickle, wavering and mean.
When secret things are revealed to them, the secrets
straight away become public property.

176

aha papailbakraa
The 8 causes of the advance, the ripening of insight
km:

Venerable Ngasena, there are these causes of the advance,

the ripening of insight. The cause of the advance, the
ripening of insight is due to:

by growth in reputation, and in years;

by questioning, and by a teacher's aid;

by thoughtfulness, and converse with the wise;

by interaction with men worthy of respectful

friendship;

by residence within a pleasant spot.

By these are one's insight purified. Therefore, it is said that
insight is purified and they who possess them, their
wisdom grows.

177

cariyagua
The qualities of a good teacher
km:

Venerable Ngasena, this spot is free from objections to

talking matters over. I am a model companion in this world
for anyone desiring to hold confidential talks. I am a man
capable of guarding a secret confided to me and I will
guard it for as long as I live.
By all the ways just described, my insight has developed. It
would be hard to find such a pupil as you have in me. Now
towards a pupil who conducts himself thus, the teacher
ought to conduct himself in accordance with the qualities
of a good teacher. What are these? A teacher should:
1. always keep watch over his pupil, know when his
pupil is negligent or vigilant; pardon the
shortcomings and corrects his pupil when the pupil
does wrong;
2. be conversant with whom his pupil should, or should
not approach (as a spiritual guide); know with whom
his pupil fraternises in the monastery or village;
3. know the kind of accommodation suitable for his
student;
4. know when his pupil is ill;
5. know whether his pupil is fruitful or failing in
collecting alms-food and if need be, ready to share
with his pupil the alms-food he himself collected;
6. be aware of changes happening in his pupil;
7. encourage his pupil when need be;
8. should not indulge in unprofitable talk with his pupil;
9. treat his pupil with consideration and seriously
regard his duties and obligations towards his pupil;
10. make no breach in the obligations of a teacher;

178

11. keep nothing secret and hold nothing from his pupil;
12. be motivated by a fatherly resolve and thoughts of
loving-kindness;
13. strive to advance the pupils knowledge, and be with
him at all times.
These are the qualities of a good teacher. Render me
guidance in accordance with these qualities. Doubt has
overcome me. There are apparent contradictions in the
words of the Conquerer. In the future, these doubts will
cause strive to arise; by then it will be difficult to find a
teacher with such insight as yours. Instruct me to gain
insight so as to resolve these doubts and confusion for the
sake of those wishing to know the correct teaching.

179

upsakagua
The qualities of a good lay disciple
The Venerable Ngasena consented to what King Milinda had
requested and in consenting, set out 10 qualities which ought to
be practised by a good lay disciple.
vn:

These 10 are the virtues required of a lay disciple:

1. He behaves as does the community of the sagha.
2. He holds the dhamma as chief.
3. He delights in giving as far as he is able to give.
4. He does his best to prevent the decline of the
Conquerors Teaching.
5. He is a holder of right views.
6. He runs not after any teacher other than the dhamma
and discipline even at the cost of his own life.
7. He guards and restrains his bodily and verbal actions.
8. He loves and takes delight in peace and harmony.
9. He is not of an envious nature and does not behave
deceitfully in the dhamma.
10. He takes refuge in the Buddha, the dhamma and the
sagha.
These are the 10 qualities of a good lay disciple. All of
these qualities exist in you. Hence, it is fit, proper and
becoming in you, that seeing the possible decline of the
Conquerors Teaching, you desire its prosperity. I give you
leave, O King, you may ask of me whatever you will.
meakapahrambhakath nihit

180

Chapter 1
iddhibalavagga
On spiritual and supernormal powers
1.

katdhikrasaphalapaha
Homage to the Blessed One
2. sabbaubhvapaha
Omniscience comes into operation
3. devadattapabbajjapaha
Devadatta bhikkhu
4. pathavicalanapaha
The cause of earthquakes
5. sivirjacakkhudnapaha
King Sivis eyes
6. gabbhvakkantipaha
The conception in the womb
7. saddhammantaradhnapaha
The sublime Teaching
8. akusalacchedanapaha
The Buddhas past unwholesome deeds
9. uttarikarayapaha
The Buddhas meditation
10. iddhibaladassanapaha
Exhibiting of supramundane powers

181
192
202
209
217
223
234
239
244
247

181

1. katdhikrasaphalapaha
Homage to the Blessed One
King Milinda, having been granted leave, knelt at the feet of his
teacher, raised his clasped hands to his head and addressed the
Venerable Ngasena.
km:

Venerable, leaders of other sects declare: If the Blessed

One desires and appreciates homage paid to Him, He could
not have become one who has reached final emancipation,
but is still associated with the threefold worlds in which he
is still dealing with. Therefore, any act of honour or
homage paid to the Blessed One is barren and fruitless and
does not accrue blessings and merits.
It is also said: If the Blessed One has attained final
emancipation, He is no more associated with the threefold
world and being free from all kinds of becoming, it cannot
be possible to pay homage to such a one as the Buddha.
Having reached the final emancipation and extinction of all
groups of existence, it would be impossible for Him to
desire and appreciate any homage paid to Him. Any act of
honour or veneration paid to such a Blessed One is
therefore barren and fruitless.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One has reached final emancipation. He
desires not any act of honour or homage paid to Him. At
the foot of the bodhi tree, He had abandoned all forms of
attachment and craving.

182

How can there be any attachment or savouring in Him who

has reached final emancipation, leaving no residue for a
new mind-body complex?

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For this has been said by the Elder Sriputta, commander

of the dhamma: Venerated by all gods and men, and like
all peerless Buddhas before, they desire not honour and
homage. Throughout all the ages, all Buddhas were so, and
will ever be so!
A son and father may speak in praise of each other. But the
words now expressed by you, by no means refute wrong
views held by others. The words now expressed by you are
merely in veneration of His qualities. Out of compassion,
please explain this matter fully to establish the true
dhamma and to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One has reached final emancipation. He
desires not any honour or homage. Still, if gods and men
practise good deeds inspired by their thoughts of wisdom
of the Blessed One, generated by their paying honour and
homage to His relics, by that act of homage do they
themselves attain the threefold bliss of men, bliss of gods
and bliss of nibbna.
Suppose, a great ferocious mass of fire were to burn
intensely and then dies. Would that fire desire for, or be
attached with craving for, the fuel comprising hay and
firewood?
No, even during the state of its burning with great
intensity, that mass of fire does not desire or relish the
items of fuel such as hay and firewood. How can a mass of
fire that has already died down, grown cold and is without
consciousness or volition have any attachment or craving?
And when that mass of fire had ceased and gone out,
would the world be bereft of fire?

183

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Certainly not. Dry wood is the seat, the basis of fire, and
any men who want fire can, by the exertion of their own
strength and power such as resides in an individual, once
more, by twirling the fire stick, produces fire, and with that
fire do any work for which the fire is required.
In that case, that saying of the leaders of the other sects
turns out to be false. Just as the great mass of fire burns
with great intensity, even so, the Blessed One pervaded the
10,000 world systems with the resplendence of His glory.
And just as the great mass of fire that burned with great
intensity dies out, even so, the Blessed One, after pervading
the 10,000 world systems with the resplendence of His
glory, reached the final emancipation leaving no residue
for a new mind-body complex.
Just as a mass of fire that has already died down and
grown cold desires not the articles of fuel such as hay and
firewood, even so, the Blessed One, by abandoning all
attachment and craving for worldly gains, has attained total
freedom from desires.
Just as any man who wanted fire because of the old mass
of fire had ceased and gone out can, by exertion of their
strength and power such as resides in an individual, once
more, by twirling the fire-stick, produce fire, and with that
fire do any work for which the fire is required.
Even so, gods and men, who practise good deeds inspired
by their thoughts of wisdom of the Blessed One, generated
by their paying honour and homage to His relics, by that
act of homage do they themselves attain the threefold bliss
of men, bliss of gods, and bliss of nibbna.

184

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For this reason also, any act of homage or veneration to the

Blessed One although He has passed away and desires it
not, is not barren but is attended with blessings and
rewards. Now hear, too, another reason. Suppose there
were to arise a great and mighty gust of wind, and that it
were to die away. Would that wind enjoy the prospect of
its arising again?
No. A wind that has died away can have no thought or idea
of arising again, because this element of motion is devoid
of volition and mental effort.
Would then the word wind vanish when that wind had so
died away?
Certainly not, because fanning devices and hand fans are
means for the production of wind. Anyone who is feeling
hot and distressed by excessive heat can allay the heat or
excessive warmth by means of fanning devices and hand
fans, and by their own effort and energy produce a breeze.
In that case, that saying of the leaders of other sects turn
out to be false. Just as the great and mighty gust of wind
which blew, even so, has the Blessed One blown over
10,000 world systems with the wind of His love, so cool,
so sweet, so calm and so delicate. As it first blew, then
died away, so has the Blessed One, who once blew with the
wind so cool, so sweet, so calm, so delicate, of His love,
now passed away to reach the final emancipation, leaving
no residue for a new mind-body complex.
Just as a wind that has died away does not enjoy the
prospect of its arising again; even so, the Blessed One who
brings cheer and blessing to the world, has abandoned all
forms of desires or attachment, become fully detached and
attained final nibbna.

185

Just as those men feeling hot and are being distressed by

excessive heat, even so, gods and men are feeling hot and
being distressed by the excessive heat of greed, hate and
delusion.
Just as the fanning devices and hand fans are means for the
production of wind, even so, the relics of the wisdom of
the Blessed One are means of producing the threefold
attainments: bliss of men, bliss of gods and bliss of
nibbna.
Just as men who are feeling hot and are distressed by
excessive heat can by fanning devices and hand fans,
produce a breeze and by that wind, allay their heat or
excessive warmth; even so, can gods and men, by offering
reverence to the relics, though He has passed away to reach
the final emancipation, desires not any homage or
reverence, cause wholesome activities to arise within them
and by such activities can allay and extinguish the three
fires of greed, hate and delusion.
Therefore, it is that acts of homage and veneration to the
Blessed One notwithstanding His having passed away and
desiring them not, are not barren but are attended with
blessings and rewards.

km:

Hear another reason for contradicting the argument of

others. Suppose a man were to beat on a drum and thus
produce its sound, and then that sound were to die. Would
that sound desire being produced again?
No, the sound has vanished. It can have no thought or idea
of being reproduced. The sound of a drum when it has
been produced and dies away, is altogether cut off.

186

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But a drum is a means of producing sound; any man, as

need arises, can by the effort of power residing in himself,
beat on that drum and so produce a sound.
Even so, the Blessed One has passed away and reached the
final emancipation leaving no residue for a new mind-body
complex but only the following qualities to function as our
teacher:
1. His relics permeated by
morality (sla)
concentration (samdhi)
wisdom (pa)
fruition of path (arahatta phala)
retrospective knowledge (paccavekkhana-na)
2. the discourse (suttanta) and the higher doctrine
(abhidhamma)
3. the disciplinary code (vinaya)
4. the exhortations (desana)
Thus, the possiblility of receiving the threefold attainments:
bliss of men, bliss of gods and bliss of nibbna is not cut
off. Beings in the three planes of existence who are
distressed by all forms of misery and suffering, and are
thus yearning for respite and bliss can avail of the means
afforded by the Blessed Ones relics, the discipline,
discourses, abhidhamma, exhortations and receive the
threefold attainments.
For this reason also, any act of homage or veneration to the
Blessed One, although He has passed away and desires it
not, is not barren but is attended with blessings and
rewards. This future possibility referred to by you, has
been foreseen by the Blessed One, and spoken of, and
declared, and made known.

187

The Blessed One said: It may be, nanda, that some of

you will think that the word of the Tathgata is ended; we
have no teacher any more. But it is not thus that you should
regard it. The Teaching and the Discipline taught and laid
down by me, let them, when I am gone, be your teacher.
[Dgha Nikya Sutta 16, 6:1]

The saying of the leaders of other sects therefore turns out

to be false. It is untrue, not according to fact, wrong and
perverse. It is the cause of misery and suffering. It has
misery and suffering as its end result and leads down the
road to the abyss of hell.

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Hear yet another reason why any act of homage and

veneration paid to the Blessed One, though He has passed
away is not barren but attended with blessings and rewards.
Does the broad earth enjoy or relish all kinds of seeds
being planted all over it?
No, it does not.
Then how is it those seeds planted without being enjoyed
and relished by the broad earth, do yet stand fast and
firmly rooted, and expand into trees with great trunks, sap,
branches and bearing flowers and fruit?
Though the earth does not enjoy or relish its being planted
upon, yet it acts as a bed for those seeds, as a means of
their development.
Then, if the leaders of other sects say: Any act of homage
and veneration paid to the Blessed One, who desires not
any such homage is barren and fruitless, they by these
words are destroying, defeating and contradicting
themselves. As any broad earth neither enjoys nor feels
attached to anything, even so, the Blessed One neither
enjoys nor feels attached to anything.

188

Just as those seeds stand fast and firmly rooted and expand
into trees with great trunks, sap, branches, and bearing
flowers and fruits, even so, gods and men:

by standing firmly rooted to the practice of

wholesome deeds inspired by their acts of homage and
veneration paid to the relics of the wisdom of the
Blessed One who has passed away and who enjoys not
such acts of homage, etc., and

by expanding into trees with great trunks in the form

of concentration, into sap in the form of the dhamma,
and into branches in the form of morality,
are reaping the flowers of deliverance and fruits of path
and fruition.
Therefore, it is that the acts of homage and veneration paid
to the Blessed One, notwithstanding His having passed
away and not enjoying them, are not barren but are
attended with blessings and rewards.

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Do camels, oxen, asses, goats, deer and men enjoy the

breeding of worms inside their abdomen?
No, they do not.
Then how is it that notwithstanding their non-enjoyment,
various families of worms are breeding with success inside
the abdomens of those beings in spite of their nonenjoyment, and begetting offspring and descendents in
large numbers and spread rapidly.
Due to the predominance of the beings evil kamma.
Just so, it is by the predominance of the good kamma
generated by the thoughts or paying of homage and
veneration to the relics and wisdom of the Blessed One,
notwithstanding His having passed away and enjoying not
any such homage, etc., that any act done to the Blessed One
is not barren but is attended with blessings and rewards.

189

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Do men enjoy the onset of diseases by saying: Let me be

afflicted with the 98 kinds of diseases.
No, they do not.
Why do those diseases come to men who do not enjoy
them?
They come because of their evil conduct in their former
births.
But if evil deeds done in a former birth have to be painful
and suffering in the present life, then both good and evil
done in the former births or done in the present life are not
barren but are productive of results.
For this reason, any act of homage or veneration paid to
the Blessed One although He has passed away and enjoys it
not, is not barren but is attended with blessings and
rewards.

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Hear another and further reason for the same thing. Did
you hear of the ogre named Nandaka, who having wronged
Venerable Sriputta, was swallowed up by the earth?
Yes, I have heard of it; that story is well known.
Did the Venerable Sriputta enjoy the fact that the ogre
Nandaka was swallowed up by the earth?
Though the world of gods and men were to be turned
upside-down, though the sun and moon were to fall upon
the earth, though Sineru, the king of mountains were to
break up and scatter into places, yet Venerable Sriputta
would not have enjoyed the fact that pain is inflicted on
any creature. And why not? It is because, whatever the
cause there is in Venerable Sriputta to be angry or to do
wrong, such a cause has been totally rooted out and cut off.
All causes had thus been removed; the Venerable Sriputta
could not be angry with one who may even seek to deprive
him of his life.

190

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But if, the Venerable Sriputta did not enjoy the fact that
the ogre, Nandaka was being swallowed up by the earth,
how was it that Nandaka was so swallowed up?
Due to Nandakas unwholesome kamma.
If so, the wrong act done to the Venerable Sriputta who
does not enjoy the downfall of his adversary, is not barren
but is productive of results. By that token, a wrong act
done to one who does not enjoy the downfall of his
adversary is not barren, but is productive of unwholesome
results.
For this reason, any act of homage or veneration paid to
the Blessed One, notwithstanding His having passed away
and not enjoying them, are not barren but are attended with
blessings and rewards.

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Now have you heard of anyone, who in this life, have been
swallowed up by the earth?
Yes I have, they are:
1. a woman by the name of Cincamnavika;
2. a king of the Sakya clan by the name of Supabuddha;
3. the elder Devadatta;
4. the ogre Nandaka;
5. Nanda, a rich merchants son.
These are the five people who, I have heard, were
swallowed up by the earth.
Whom had they wronged?
They had wronged the Blessed One and His disciples.
Did the Blessed One or His disciples enjoy the fact of their
adversaries being swallowed up by the earth?
No, they did not.

191

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In that case, any act of homage and veneration paid to the

Blessed One, notwithstanding His having passed away and
not enjoying such homage, etc., is not barren, but is
attended with blessings and rewards.
You have explained this deep question and made it clear.
You have lifted the veil and exposed what is hidden;
dismantled the perplexity of the dilemma and shattered
wrong beliefs. Excellent is your explanation that far
surpasses the leaders of other sects!
katdhikrasaphalapaha pahamo

192

2. sabbaubhvapaha
Omniscience comes into operation
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Venerable, is the Blessed One omniscient?

Yes, the Blessed One is omniscient. But knowledge is not
always continually and consciously present in Him. The
omniscience of the Blessed One is dependent on
heedfulness (vajjana); thus He turns to any phenomenon
He wishes to know.
Then the Blessed One cannot have been omniscient, if His
all-embracing knowledge can only be reached through
heedfulness.
If so, our Blessed One's knowledge must have been less in
degree of fineness than that of the other Blessed Ones.
That is a conclusion hard to draw. Let us delve a little
further.
Suppose, you had a hundred cart-loads of rice in the husk,
and each cart-load was of seven ammanas (about 36 Imperial
gallons). Would a man without consideration be able to tell
you in a moment how many thousands of grains there were
in the whole hundred cart-loads1?
Those who are full of greed, hatred and delusion and
imbued with the ten kinds of defilement, who are not well
trained (in meditation) in body, morality, mind and
wisdom, their mentality arise with difficulty and proceeds
sluggishly.
It is like the slow and heavy movements of the giant
bamboo plant when it is being dragged along with its
spreading and extensive foliage, intricately entangled.

193

Similarly, slow and heavy are the movements of the minds

of those who are full of greed, hatred, delusion and imbued
with the ten kinds of defilement, and who are poorly
trained in body, morality, mind and lacking in wisdom.
This is because of the intricate entanglement of defilement.
This is the mentality of the first category of worldlings
(puthujjana).
From it, the second category of mentality is to be
distinguished. These are the stream-enterers (sotpanna) for
whom the gates of hell are closed, but who have penetrated
the Teachings (paivedha2); their mentality, so far as the
three lower stages are concerned, are buoyant and proceeds
with alacrity.
However, as to the higher stages, they arise with difficulty
and proceeds sluggishly. This is because though their
minds have been made clear as to those three lower stages3,
defilements still remain to be eradicated from the higher
stages. It is like moving the giant bamboo plant which has a
smooth lower trunk up to the third node, but above that its
branches are intricately entangled. The lower trunk which
is smooth, enables it to be moved easily when dragged
along, but its entangled upper branches hinder its progress.
Even so, those who are the stream-enterers for whom the
gates of hell are closed, however, as regards the higher
stages, they arise with difficulty and proceeds sluggishly.
This is because though their mentality have been made
clear as regards those three lower stages, defilements still
remain to be eradicated from the higher stages. This is the
mentality of the second category, belonging to the streamenterers.

194

From these, the third category of mentality is to be

distinguished. These are the once-returners (sakadgmi),
in whom greed, hatred and delusion are reduced to a
minimum, their mentality so far as the five lower stages are
concerned, are buoyant and proceeds with alacrity.
However as to the higher stages, they arise with difficulty
and proceeds sluggishly. This is because though their
mentality have been made clear as regards those five lower
stages, defilements still remain to be eradicated from the
higher stages.
It is like moving the giant bamboo plant which has a
smooth lower trunk up to the fifth node, but above that its
branches are intricately entangled. The lower trunk which
is smooth, enables it to be moved easily when dragged
along, but its entangled upper branches would hinder its
progress. This is the mentality of the third category
belonging to the once-returners.
From these, the fourth category of mentality is to be
distinguished. Those who are non-returners (angmi), who
have completely got rid of the five lower fetters
(sayojan4); their mentality, so far as the ten stages are
concerned, are buoyant and proceeds with alacrity.
However, as to the higher stages, they arise with difficulty
and proceeds sluggishly. This is because though their
mentality have been made clear as regards those ten stages,
defilements still remain to be eradicated from the higher
stages. It is like moving a giant bamboo plant which has a
smooth lower trunk up to the tenth node, but above that its
branches are intricately entangled. This is the mentality of
the fourth category belonging to the non-returners.

195

From these, the fifth category of mentality is to be

distinguished. Those who are arahants, in:
whom all biases (sava5) have ceased;
whose impurities have been washed away;
whose defilements have been completely eradicated;
who...
... have trodden the path,
... have accomplished the task,
... have unburdened their load of mind-body complex,
... have reached the fruition of attainment (arahattaphala), for whom the fetter of craving after any kind
of future life has been broken to pieces,
... have the four kinds of analytical knowledge,
are purified as regards all that a disciple can be or do; their
mentality which are well within the range of their category,
are buoyant and proceeds with alacrity.
But as to the mentality which is within the range of the
paccekabuddhas, they arise with difficulty and proceeds
sluggishly. This is because of their having been made pure
as in accordance to the limit of their own range of
attainment, but not in accordance to the range of the
paccekabuddhas.
It is like moving the giant bamboo, the branches of which,
arising out of all its nodes, has been totally trimmed off
and which, therefore, when dragged along, moves quickly
and with ease, because of its smoothness all along, and
because of its being unencumbered with the entangled
foliage. This is the mentality of the fifth category
belonging to the arahant.

196

From these, the sixth category of mentality is to be

distinguished. Paccekabuddhas who are dependent on
themselves alone for enlightenment, wanting no teacher,
dwelling alone like the solitary horn of the rhinoceros, who
so far as their own higher life is concerned, have
mentalities pure and stainless.
Their mentalities, which are well within the range of their
category, are buoyant and proceeds with alacrity. But as
regards all that is within the range of a supremely
enlightened Buddha; the paccekabuddhas will find that they
arise with difficulty and proceeds sluggishly. This is
because their attainment is within their own range, and
because of the immensity of the range of the supremely
enlightened Buddhas.
It is like a man who would fearlessly cross, and at will, by
day or by night, a small river within his neighbourhood.
But when he comes in sight of the mighty ocean, deep and
wide, and unfathomable, and sees no further shore to it,
then would he stand hesitating and afraid, and make no
effort to go into and swim across it. This is because of his
familiarity within his neighbourhood and because of the
immensity of the mighty ocean. This is the mentality of the
sixth category belonging to a paccekabuddha.
From these, the seventh category of mentality is to be
distinguished. The supremely Enlightened Buddhas, having
all knowledge, being endowed with the tenfold powers,
confident in the 4 modes6 of just self-confidence, endowed
with the 18 characteristics of a Buddha, whose conquest
knows no limit, from whose infinite knowledge nothing is
hidden, their mentalities are on every point buoyant; they
proceed with alacrity because of their purity in all respects.

197

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Suppose a well burnished dart, free from rust and dirt,

shorn of knots and bulges, with a fine edge, straight and
without a bend or twist in it, were to be set on a powerful
crossbow. Would there be any tardiness or entanglement if
it were discharged by a powerful man against a piece of
fine linen, or cotton fancy cloth or delicate wool work?
No, because the stuff is so fine, and the dart so highly
tempered and the discharge so powerful.
Even so, those supremely enlightened Buddhas who having
all knowledge, being endowed with the tenfold powers,
confident in the 4 modes of just self-confidence, endowed
with the 18 characteristics of a Buddha, whose conquest
knows no limit, from whose infinite knowledge nothing is
hidden, their mentalities are buoyant and proceeds with
alacrity. This is because of their purity in every aspect.
This is the mentality of the seventh category belonging to
an omniscient Buddha.
Now, of these seven categories of mentality, the last, the
mentality of the omniscient Buddha, is altogether the most
supreme of the other six and is clear and active in its high
quality by as many number of times as is calculable in
terms of sa~khyeyya7. It is because the mentality of the
omniscient Buddha is so clear and active that He displays
the miracle of appearance of phenomena of opposite
characters in pairs as e.g., streaming forth of fire and water
(yamaka pihriya8). From that, we may get to know how
clear and active are the mentality of a Buddha, who is
endowed with the sixfold glories.
It is beyond words to cite an instance of the clearness and
activity of the mentality of a Buddha. It surpasses the
reason shown with regards to the miracle of the streaming
forth of fire and water.

198

It is beyond us to suggest that the mentality involved in the

display of the fire and water miracle constitutes a certain
proportion such as one-fourths or one-eighths of the
omniscient Buddhas (infinite) mental powers.
The omniscience of the Buddha is dependent on reflecting
to or directing attention to the phenomenon being reflected
on. Through such directive or reflective advertence, He
would be able to know what He wanted to know.
Now suppose a man were to pass an object from one hand
to the other, or to utter a speech, or to swallow some food,
or to open his eyes, or to shut them, or to stretch forth his
hand or to bend it in. Such activities take (comparatively) a
long time.

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His directive advertence is exceedingly quick and because

of this He would know whatever He wanted to know. Even
when they are not mentally adverting, the Buddhas are not,
even then, anything other than omniscient.
But such directive or reflective advertence also requires a
fervent search for its ways of action. I sincerely beg for
more profound instructions as to what constitutes
omniscience.
Suppose there were a rich man, great in wealth and
property; one who had stores of gold, silver and valuables;
stores of all kinds of wheat, one who has rice, barley, dry
grain, oilseed, beans, peas, and every other edible seeds;
who had ghee, oil, butter, milk, curds, honey, molasses in
crystals, and molasses in liquid, all put away in jars, pots,
pans, and every sort of vessels.

199

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Now if a traveller were to arrive, one worthy of hospitality

and one who was hungry; and all the immediate cooked
food in that rich mans house had just been eaten up, and
they were about to take out of the rice jar some rice and
start cooking again. Would that rich man merely by reason
of deficiency in eatable stuff at that unusual time be rightly
called poor or needy?
Certainly not. Even in the palace of a universal monarch,
there might be no cooked food out of time, how much less
in the house of a mere well-to-do man?
Even so, with the all-embracing knowledge of the
omniscient Buddha when heedfulness only is wanting.
When heedfulness is exercised with all-embracing
knowledge (omniscient), the Blessed One knew what He
wanted to know.
For a further illustration, now suppose there were a tree in
full fruit, with its branches bending by the weight of the
burden each fruit bore. Suppose also that not a single fruit
had fallen from it. Could that tree be rightly called barren,
merely because of the want of a fallen fruit?
No. Falling off from trees is a necessary condition
associated with all fruits, and yet when they have fallen
off, one can avail of them as much as one likes.
Even so, heedfulness is a necessary condition associated
with the all-embracing knowledge of the Blessed One,
which when exercised makes Him know whatever He
wishes to know.
Does the all-embracing knowledge make the Blessed One
know whatever He wishes to know each and every time He
exercises His heedfulness?
It is a fact, that a Blessed One knows what He wishes to
know each and every time He exercises his heedfulness.

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Just as when a universal monarch reflects to himself: Let

my celestial wheel gift9 come close to me. No sooner is it
thought of that it comes. Even so, a Blessed One knows
whatever He wishes to know by the mental exercise of His
directive or reflective heedfulness in each case.
The reasons advanced by you are valid for the omniscience
of the Blessed One. I admit I am convinced that is so.
sabbaubhvapaho dutiyo

Notes:
1. This passage is taken from the translation by T.W. Rhys Davids who
had marked this passage as corrupt, and the present editors do not
pretend to understand it either. According to T.W. Rhys Davids, the
Sinhalese version is also very involved and confused. He had translated
according to the general sense of the Sinhalese and the figures of the
Pi. Hardy gives his 'version' at p. 386 of the 'Manual of Buddhism.' It
says, 'In one load of rice there are 63,660,000 grains. Each of these
grains can be separately considered by Blessed One in a moment of
time. In that moment the seven-times gifted mind exercises this power.
2. As distinguished from the mere acquisition of the worldling
(pariyatti) of the practice (paipatti) of the dhamma.
3. (i) Personality belief [sakkya-dihi], (ii) sceptical doubt [vicikicch],
and (iii) attachment to rites and rituals [silabbata-parmsa].
4. Fetters (sayojana) first five lower, last five upper.
(i) Personality belief [sakkya-dihi], (ii) sceptical doubt [vicikicch],
and (iii) attachment to rites and rituals [silabbata-parmsa], (iv) sensual
greed [kma-rga], (v) anger [paigha], (vi) greed for fine material
existence [r|pa-rga], (vii) greed for immaterial existence [ar|pa-rga],
(viii) conceit [mna], (ix) restlessness [uddhacca], and (x) ignorance
[avijj].

201

5. sava: biases, cankers, fluxions, outflows, poisons, intoxicants, or

impurities.
6. vesrajja: confidence. A Blessed One has four subjects of confidence
or fearlessness:
i) buddhattha consciousness that he has attained omniscience;
ii) savakkhaya consciousness that he has freed himself from
all biases, cankers, fluxions, etc.;
iii) anaryika consciousness that he has rightly proclaimed the
obstacles in the path to deathlessness;
iv) niyynika consciousness that he has rightly proclaimed the
path to deathlessness.
7. asa~khyeyya: Incalculable, innumerable, an immense period (R.C.
Childers A Dictionary of the Pi language).
asa~khyeyyo: Incalculable, innumerable. The neuter asa~khyeyya is the
highest of the numerals, and is equal to 10,000,00020, or 1 followed by
140 ciphers (PTS Dictionary).
8. yamaka pihriya: The miracle of the double appearance, a miracle
performed by the Blessed One in Savatthi to refute the heretical
teachers. It consisted in the appearance of phenomena of opposite
character in pairs, e.g., the streaming forth of fire and water. The
miracle was repeatedly performed by the Blessed One and is often
referred to.
9. cakkaratana: The magic wheel of a cakkavatti monarch, which rolls
before him when he makes his royal progress from one continent to
another (A Dictionary of the Pi Language by R.C. Childers.).

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3. devadattapabbajjapaha
Devadatta bhikkhu
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Venerable, who admitted Devadatta to the sagha?

When the Blessed One had attained to Buddhahood, those
six young princes: Bhaddiya, Anuruddha, nanda, Bhagu,
Kimila and Devadatta, together with Upli the barber, felt
great delight in Him. They left their homes and renounced
the world to follow the Blessed One. So the Blessed One
admitted them to the sagha.
But was it not Devadatta who, after he had entered the
order, caused a schism within it?
Yes.
What fruit of kamma does a schismatical person bear?
He bears the kamma whose fruit continues to operate for a
world period.
Was the Blessed One aware that Devadatta, after being
admitted to the order would cause a schism, and having
done so would suffer torment in hell for a world period?
Yes, He was aware.
If He were aware, then the saying that the Blessed One is
compassionate and merciful, is forever a protector, is a
seeker of all that was good, is one who removes harm and
provides welfare and blessing to all beings; that saying
must be wrong.
If on the other hand, the Blessed One had admitted
Devadatta to the order not being aware of those oncoming
events, then He cannot have been omniscient. This dilemma
is put to you, unravel it, and confound the arguments of
others. In future times it will be hard to find a bhikkhu like
you in wisdom. Herein then show your skill!

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The Blessed One is indeed compassionate, merciful and allknowing. Through His omniscience, He examined
Devadattas destiny and perceived how, having
accumulated unwholesome kamma results, Devadatta
would pass for more than 100,000 million world periods,
from torment to torment, and from the lowest hell to
lowest hell.
The Blessed One also knew that the immeasurable
unwholesome kamma that Devadatta had accumulated
would find an end at some later time, should he enter the
order within the ssana of Gotama. Should he not enter the
order, Devadatta would continue his unwholesome deeds
and suffer for an infinite torment from hell to hell.
Knowing all these, and in His compassion, the Blessed One
admitted Devadatta to the order.
In such a case, the Blessed One first wounds a man and
then applies ointment on the wound; first throws a man
down a precipice and then reaches out to him an assisting
hand; first kills him and then seeks to prolong his life. For
this reason, the Blessed One is one who first gives pain and
then makes a present of bliss.
Just as mothers and fathers work for the welfare of their
children by wounding them or throwing them down, even
so, metaphorically speaking, the Blessed One wounds the
beings, or throws them down, or kills them with their
welfare and benefit in view. He works for the advantage of
the beings by wounding them, by throwing them down, by
killing them.
So by whatever method, an increase in the virtue of beings
can be brought about, by that method does the Blessed One
contribute to the good of all beings.

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Just as a man of influence, by the power of his wealth,

reputation, prosperity or birth, can make light a grievous
penalty imposed on his friend or relative by the king; just
so, the Blessed One by the efficacy of morality,
concentration, wisdom and deliverance, made light
Devadattas heavy burden of sorrow, by admitting
Devadatta to the order.
Just as a clever physician would make a grievous sickness
light by the aid of a powerful medicinal drug, even so did
the Blessed One, with His knowledge, admit Devadatta to
the order, thus, made light his grievous pain by the aid of
the medicine of the dhamma.

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Was the Blessed One then, guilty of any wrong in that He

turned Devadatta from being a man of much sorrow into a
man of less sorrow?
No indeed. The Blessed One committed no wrong, not even
to such small extent as the quantity of milk obtained by a
single stroke of milking.
For whatever reason the Blessed One admitted Devadatta to
the order, accept such reason at its full value!
Now, hear another reason. Suppose some men were to
seize a robber, and bringing him before the king, say:
This, your Majesty, the robber who had committed a
crime. Inflict upon him such punishment as your Majesty
thinks fit! Thereupon, the king were to say to them: Take
this robber then, my men, outside the city, and there on the
place of execution, cut off his head. They in obedience to
his order, were to take that man accordingly towards the
place of execution.

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A man who was high in office should see him, and was to
have pity on him and say to those men: Stay, good men.
What good will cutting off his head do to you? As no
benefit will thus accrue, cut off this robbers hand or foot
only and spare his life. I will explain to the king the fact of
cutting off this robbers hand or foot but sparing his life.

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They, then at the word of the influential man were to cut

off the robbers hand and foot but spare his life; would that
man of power who had acted so towards him been a
benefactor to that robber?
That man was a giver of life to that robber. Having saved
the robbers life, where is the fact of his not having done
his duty towards the robber? But in fact, pain was inflicted
on the robber in cutting off his hand or foot. So, would that
kindhearted man be guilty of any wrong on account of the
pain involved therein? That robber was experiencing pain
on account of the crime of stealing he had committed. But
the man who saved his life did him no harm.
Just so, the Blessed One having compassion admitted
Devadatta to the order. His sorrows became limited, for at
the moment of his death, he took refuge in the Blessed One
for the rest of his existences when he expressed the
affirmation:
In Him who is supreme in all the three worlds;
In Him who as the god of purity excels all gods
conventionally designated and all gods that are womb-born;
In Him who disciplines all that should be disciplined;
In Him who sees the all around unmarred by anything;
In Him who is omniscient;
In Him who is possessed of more than a hundred glories
and bodily marks of a great man;
In Him I take refuge,
Through all the lives I may have to live.

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If you divide this world period into six parts, it was at the
end of the first part that Devadatta created schism in the
sagha. After he has suffered the other five in hell, he will
be released, and will become an individual or a
paccekabuddha with the name Ahissara. Has not the
exalted Blessed One, by bringing this about been doing His
duty for the good of Devadatta?
By whatever means, the Blessed One has given cause for
Devadatta to attain the enlightenment of an individual or a
silent Buddha, by such means has He therefore given to
Devadatta that should be given for his good. How can there
be anything, that should have been done, left undone for
the good of Devadatta?
But inasmuch as Devadatta having created a schism in the
sagha, suffers pain in the realm of hell, has not therefore
the Blessed One done him wrong?
No. Devadatta as a result of causing a schism in the
sagha, suffers pain in the realm of hell for a world
period. But the Blessed One who puts an end to all sorrows
has done no wrong.
For whatever reason the Blessed One admitted Devadatta to
the order, accept such reason at its full value!
Here is another and further reason why the Blessed One
admitted Devadatta to the order. Suppose in treating a
morbid sore whose cavity was full of decomposed flesh,
pus, and worms that gave out stinking smells and was made
worse by the pain that varied with constantly changing
symptoms, by variations in temperature and by the union of
the three humours: windy, bilious, and phlegmatic; a
capable physician was to anoint it with a rough, sharp,
bitter, stinging ointment to the end that the inflammation
should be allayed.

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When the inflammation had subsided and new flesh had

filled up, suppose he was then to cauterise it. When he had
done so, suppose he was to prescribe an alkaline wash, and
anoint it with some drug to the end that the sore might heal
and the sick man recover his health. Now tell me, would it
be out of cruelty that the physician thus smeared with
ointment, cut with a small knife and cauterised it and
administered an alkaline wash?
Certainly not. It would be with kindness in his heart, and
intent on the mans welfare, that he would do all those
things.
By such activities as anointing that sick man with caustic
ointments and drugs, pain had been caused. Would not the
physician who was capable of expelling sickness be guilty
of any wrong in respect of them?
That physician who was capable of expelling sickness was
acting with kind intent and for the mans welfare. How
could he therein incur a wrong? It is of heavenly bliss
rather that the physician who was capable of expelling
sickness would be worthy.
Even so, was it in His compassion that the Blessed One
admitted Devadatta to the order to release him from pain.
Hear another and further reason why the Blessed One
admitted Devadatta to the order. Suppose a man had been
pierced by a thorn. Another man with kindly intent and for
his own good were to cut around the place with another
sharp thorn or knife, with blood flowing, were to extract
the thorn. Would it be out of evil intent that he did so?
Certainly not, for he extracted the thorn with kindly intent
and for the mans good. If that man had not extracted the
thorn, the man who was pierced with the thorn might die or
suffered such pain that he would have been near death.

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Even so, it was out of compassion that the Blessed One

admitted Devadatta into the order with a view to releasing
him from pain. If the Blessed One had not admitted
Devadatta to the order, he would have suffered in the hell
realm through a succession of existences and through
hundreds of thousand million world period.
The Blessed One has indeed:
turned Devadatta upstream when he was about to be
swept away downstream with the flood on the river
of the round of rebirth;
put on the right path, Devadatta who was travelling
along the wrong one;
lent support and arrested the fall as Devadatta was
hurtling down the precipice; and
raised Devadatta onto a well balanced path while he
was going along an uneven path.
No one but a sage like you could have pointed out the
primary and subsidiary reason in support of your
explanations unless he were as wise as you.
devadattapabbajjapaho tatiyo

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4. pathavicalanapaha
The cause of earthquakes
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Venerable, the Blessed One said: There are these 8 reasons

that cause a violent earthquake.1 This is an inclusive
statement. There can be no ninth cause for a violent
earthquake. If there were one, the Buddha would have
mentioned it. But we find another violent earthquake when
we were told that on King Vessantaras mighty largesse,
the earth trembled.
If there are only 8 reasons, then what we hear of the
mighty earthquake at the largesse of King Vessantara must
be false. This is a profound and difficult dilemma and is
bound to cause doubts and confusion. One with the
knowledge to resolve this can only be you; thus we put this
to you.
The Blessed One has indeed made the quote as you have
said, however, the repeated earthquake at the mighty
largesse of King Vessantara was out of season and was an
event of isolated occurrence. It is excluded from the 8
reasons for a violent earthquake and as such is not
reckoned as one of these 8 reasons.
Just as there are 3 kinds of well-known rains reckoned in
the world: that of the early rainy season, that of the winter
months, and that of the middle months. If, besides these,
any other rain falls, that is not reckoned among the usual
rains, but is called a rain out of season.
Just as there are 500 rivers which flow down from the
Himalayas, but of these, only 10 are reckoned in the
enumeration of rivers.

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They are the Ganges, Yumun, Aciravat, Sarabh|, Mah,

Sindhu, Sarassati, Vetravat, Vtas and Candabhg. The
others are not being included in the list because they are
not flowing water at all seasons.
Just as there are 100, 200, or 300 officers under the king,
but only 6 of them are reckoned as officers of state: the
commander-in-chief, the kings domestic chaplain, the high
treasurer, the bearer of the state umbrella, the kings body
guard and the sword-bearer. Why? Because of their being
intimately associated with the kings personal welfare. The
rest are not reckoned, they are all simply called officers.

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Now, have you ever heard, that during the present ssana
of the Gotama Buddha, the fame of certain individuals has
reached up to the realms of gods and men and they were
enjoying bliss even during their immediate life-time due to
the operation of the law of kamma that bears immediate
fruit for acts of charity such as alms-giving performed by
them?
Yes, I have. There are 7 of such individuals.
Who are the 7?
They were: Sumana the garland maker, Ekasaka the
Brahman, Pua the hired servant, Mallik the queen,
Goplamt the queen, Suppiy the devoted laywoman, and
Pu the slave girl. It was these 7 who were enjoying the
bliss even during their immediate life-time and whose fame
has reached up to the realms of gods and men.
Have you heard of others, who, even in their human
bodies, had been to the realms of god in days gone by?
Yes, I have heard of them also.
And who are they?

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They were: Guttila the harpist, Sdhna the king, King

Nimi, and King Mandhtu. I have heard of these 4 having
been to the realms of gods even in their human body. I
have also heard of both good and evil deeds done long ago.
But have you heard of the earth shaking either now or in
the past, and either once or twice or thrice, when a gift had
been given?
No, I have not heard.
And I too, though I have learnt the Pi literature all by
heart and been devoted to study, to hearing the Teaching,
in both letter and spirit, and to the acquirements of
discipleship, and though I have been ready to learn and to
sit at the feet of teachers to whom I put searching questions
and from whom I received rational answers and
instructions on points touching commentaries and guiding
principles I too, have never heard of the earth shaking
either once or twice or thrice when a gift had been given
by any person except only in the case of the splendid gift
of King Vessantara. Between the times of Kassapa Buddha
and of Gotama Buddha, a former prince of the Sakya royal
blood, there have rolled by countless billion years, but in
all that period, I have not heard it said: When such and
such a person gave a gift, the earth shook either once or
twice or thrice.
It is at no common effort, at no ordinary struggle, that the
great earth is moved. It is when overborne by the weight of
tremendous virtue, overpowered by the burden of nobility
of acts which testify of absolute purity, that, unable to
support it, the broad earth trembles and shakes violently.
Then, it is as when a cart is overladen with too heavy
weight, and the nave and spokes are split, and the axletree
is broken in two.

212

Then, it is as when the heavens, overspread with the waters

of the tempest driven by the wind, and over-weighted with
the burden of heaped-up rain clouds, roar and rumble with
booming and crashing sounds, raging with the onset of
mighty thunders.
Even so, when overpowered by the burden of enormous
forces of virtue rendered by the mighty largesse of King
Vessantara, the nobility of acts which testify of absolute
purity, that, unable to support it, the broad earth trembles
and shakes violently. Because the mentality of King
Vessantara was not motivated by: greed, hate, delusion,
conceit, wrong view, defilements, thoughts of reasoning,
and thoughts of discontentment; but was tremendously
motivated by thoughts of alms-giving (dna).
It was on giving, ever and without end, that his mentality
was set and his thoughts forever were thus: Let those who
are alms-receivers and who for whatever reason have not
yet come, now arrive! Let all who come receive whatever
they want and be filled with happiness.
And on these 10 conditions of heart was King Vessantaras
mentality always fixed. They are:
1. rigid self discipline (dama);
2. mental equilibrium (sama);
3. forbearance (khanti);
4. control of senses (indriyasavara);
5. fundamental morality (yama);
6. self-imposed morality (niyama);
7. non-anger (akkodha);
8. non-cruelty (avihis);
9. veracity (vac-sacca); and
10. purification (soceyya).

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King Vessantara had abandoned all seeking-after of animal

desires. All desire for a rebirth in the human world or the
world of gods had been eradicated in him. His
preoccupations were devoted solely to seeking a life of
purity. He had, given up the caring for himself, and
devoted himself thenceforth to caring for others. His
mentality was fixed in a large measure, on the thought:
How can I make all beings to be at peace and harmony,
healthy, wealthy and long-lived? When he was giving
things away, he gave:
not for the sake of favourable birth;
not for the sake of wealth;
not for the sake of receiving gifts in return;
not by way of bribery and corruption;
not for the sake of long life for himself;
not for the sake of personal beauty and happiness;
not for the sake of personal strength;
not for the sake of influence, power and fame;
not for the sake of his son or daughter.
But for the sake of supreme wisdom that he gave gifts so
immense, so immeasureable and so unsurpassed in
sublimity. True is this saying. It was when he had attained
to that supreme wisdom that he declared:
Jli my son and Kah Jina my daughter and
My queen, my wife, Madd;
I gave them all away without a thought
And it was for Buddhahood I did this thing.
The angry man did the great King Vessantara conquer with
non-anger. The evil man did he conquer by doing good.
The stingy man did he conquer by giving. The liar did he
conquer by saying the truth. All unwholesome deeds did he
conquer by the exercise of wholesome deeds.

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When the splendid largesse was taking place, the broad

earth (supported by water), and the great winds, were
agitated and shaken by the full force of the enormous
power of influence resulting from the generosity of King
Vessantara. Moving slowly at first, these great winds began
to blow confusedly, up and down, and towards each side;
the earth swayed and the mighty trees rooted in the soil
began to teeter and totter.
In the sky, the clouds were scurrying here and there in
great billowy masses. The mighty winds arose laden with
dust, and the heavens rushed together and the hurricanes
blew with violent blasts, and a great and terrible mighty
roar sounded forth.
At the raging of those winds, the waters, little by little
began to move, and at the movement of the waters, the
great fish, the tortoise and other marine creatures were
taken with fright. The waves began to roll in double
breakers and the water denizens were all seized with fear
and as the breakers rushed together in huge groups, the
boom of the ocean grew loud, and the spray lashed into
fury, and huge lathers of froth and foam arose.
The great ocean swelled and rolled; the waters rushed
together here and there, causing the rivers to drive
upstream instead of downstream. The asura and garua, the
yakkha and nga shook with trepidation, and in their fear
thought: What now! How now! Is the great ocean being
turned upside down? With terror-striken hearts, they
sought to escape. As the water on which it rests was
troubled and heated up to boiling point, the broad earth
began to shake and with it, the mountain ranges and the
ocean depths trembled and rumbled.

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When the broad earth shook all mountain peaks and rocky
crests of Sineru in its seven tiers moved spirally and then
became bent double like the tips of reed or cane scorched
with fire. At the trembling of the earth, the serpents and the
mongoose, cats and jackals, boars and birds of the air,
became mentally deranged and the Yakkhas of inferior
power wept, while those of greater power bursted into
shrieks of laughter.

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King Vessantara gave away whatever is in the world

considered most difficult to bestow; wife and offspring.
There was never another giving, which had such power as
that generosity of the great king. It was on the giving of
that mighty gift that the broad earth shook seven times.
A marvellous thing meriting highest applause is it, of the
Buddha and a most wonderful, that the virtues of a Buddha,
even when a bodhisatta were so unequalled in the world, so
forbearing was his demeanour and endowed was he with
such a mentality. Most wonderful is it that he held before
him, aims so high and endeavours so grand. You have
made evident, the might of the bodhisatta and a most clear
light have you cast upon the perfection of the conquerors.
You have shown how, in the whole world of gods and men,
Tathgata as He, continues the practice of the 3 kinds of
His noble life, is the highest and the best.
Well spoken, Venerable. The ssana of the Conqueror has
been exalted, the perfection of the Conqueror has been
glorified, the node of heretical views has been cut asunder.
It is as you, the best of the leaders of schools of thought,
say; and I accept that which you have said.
pathavicalanapaho catuttho

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Note:
1. Dgha Nikya Sutta 16, 3:12-21. Eight causes of earthquakes.
And the Venerable nanda approached the Blessed One, and
respectfully greeting him, sat down at one side. Then he spoke to the
Blessed One, saying: Marvellous it is indeed, and most wonderful! The
earth shakes mightily, tremendously! Dreadful and astonishing it is how
the thunders roll across the heavens! What could be the reason, what the
cause, that so mighty an earthquake should arise?
Then the Blessed One said: There are eight reasons, nanda, eight
causes for a mighty earthquake to arise. What are those eight?
This great earth, nanda, is established upon liquid, the liquid upon the
atmosphere, and the atmosphere upon space. And when, nanda, mighty
atmospheric disturbances take place, the liquid is agitated. And with the
agitation of the liquid, tremors of the earth arise. This is the first reason,
the first cause for the arising of mighty earthquakes.
Again, nanda, when an ascetic or holy man of great power, one who
has gained mastery of his mind, or a deity who is mighty and potent,
develops intense concentration on the delimited aspect of the earth
element, and to a boundless degree on the liquid element, he, too, causes
the earth to tremble, quiver, and shake. This is the second reason, the
second cause for the arising of mighty earthquakes.
Again, nanda, when the bodhisatta departs from the Tusit realm and
descends into his mother's womb, mindfully and clearly comprehending;
and when the bodhisatta comes out from his mother's womb, mindfully
and clearly comprehending; and when the Tathgata becomes fully
enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment; when the Tathgata
sets rolling the excellent Wheel of the Dhamma; when the Tathgata
renounces His will to live on; and when the Tathagata comes to pass
away into the state of nibbna in which no element of clinging remains then, too, nanda, this great earth trembles, quivers, and shakes.
These, nanda, are the eight reasons, the eight causes for a great
earthquake to arise.

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5. sivirjacakkhudnapaha
King Sivis eyes
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O Venerable, it has been said: King Sivi gave his eyes to a

beggar who asked for them. Thus blinded, divine eyes
arose in him. But the sutta states: When the cause has
been destroyed, when there is no longer any cause, then the
divine eye cannot arise.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The statement: King Sivi gave his eyes away to the beggar
who asked for them, this, there is no doubt. Divine eyes
arose him; this, too there is no doubt.
May I ask, can the divine eyes arise when the cause of it
has been destroyed, when no cause for it, no basis remains?
Certainly not, O King.
What then, is the reason divine eyes arose, notwithstanding
that its cause had been destroyed? Venerable, please
explain clearly the reason for this.
Is there in this world such a thing as when, by the solemn
asseveration of what is the truth, true believers can perform
the act of truth?
Yes there is. By affirmation of truth, the sayers make the
rain to fall, fire to go out, ward off the effects of poison,
and accomplish many other things they want to do.
Then, that fits the case; that meets it on all fours when it is
said that it was by the power of truth that those divine eyes
were produced for King Sivi.

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Indeed, it was by the power of the truth alone that the

divine eyes arose even when no other cause was present,
for truth itself was in that case, the cause of the arising of
those divine eyes.

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Suppose all beings were to make a solemn affirmation of

truth and express their wish saying: Let a mighty rain fall
now! The moment it was said, it will bring about a heavy
rainfall. Would there in that case, by any cause for rain
accumulated in the sky by which it could be brought about?
No, asseveration of the truth alone is the basis of
production of that rain.
Even so, there would be no ordinary cause. The truth itself
would be sufficient cause for the arising of divine eyes!
Now suppose, all beings were to make a solemn
affirmation of truth and express their wish saying: Now
let the blazing, raging mass of fire go out. The moment
the asseveration was declared, the raging fire were to go
out. Would there be any cause, for that fire to go out?
No, asseveration of truth alone is the basis of the
momentarily going out of that fiercely raging fire.
Even so, there would be no ordinary cause in the case of
King Sivi. The asseveration of truth alone is the basis for
the arising of divine eyes!
Now suppose all beings were to make a solemn affirmation
of truth and express their wish saying: Let this malignant
poison become a healing drug! The moment it was
declared, that malignant poison instantaneously turned into
a healing drug; would there be any cause for that poison
turning into a healing drug?
No, asseveration of truth alone is the basis of that
malignant poison instantaneously turning into a healing
drug.

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Even so, there would be no ordinary cause. The

asseveration of truth alone is the basis for the arising of
divine eyes! Now there is no other cause for knowing the
Four Noble Truths with penetrating insight than the
asseveration of truth. It is only by means of asseveration of
truth that the Four Noble Truths are knowable with
penetrating insight.
There was a king in China, desiring to charm the great
ocean, performed at intervals of four months, a solemn act
of truth and then on his royal chariot, he entered a leagues
distance into the great ocean. Then in front of the head of
his chariot, the mighty waves rolled back, and when he
returned, they flowed once more over the spot. But could
the ocean be so drawn back by the ordinary bodily power
of all gods and men combined?
Even the very small quantity of water contained in a
reservoir cannot be drawn back by the ordinary bodily
power of all gods and men combined, how much less the
waters of the great ocean?
By this, know then the force of truth. There is no place
which is not reachable with the aid of truth.
When Asoka the righteous ruler of Paliputta, as he stood
one day in the midst of the townsfolk and the country
people, of his officers and servants, and his ministers of
state, beheld the Ganges river as it rolled along filled up by
freshets from the hills, full to the brim and overflowing.
Facing the mighty stream, 500 leagues in length and a
league in breadth, he said to the officers: Is there any one,
my good men, who is able to make this great Ganges flow
backwards and upstream?
Nay, your Majesty, impossible, said they.

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Now a certain courtesan, Bindumati by name, heard people

repeat the question that the king had asked. Then she said
to herself: Here I am, a harlot in this country of
Ptaliputta, by the sale of my body do I gain my livelihood.
I follow the meanest of vocations. Let the king behold the
power of an act of asseveration of truth performed even by
such as I. Then that courtesan performed an act of
asseveration of truth. That moment the mighty Ganges,
roaring and raging, rolled back, upstream, in the sight of all
the people!
Then when the king heard the din and the noise of the
movement of the waves and whirlpools of the mighty
Ganges, amazed and struck with awe and wonder, he said
to his officers: How is this, that the great Ganges is
flowing backwards?
Your Majesty, a certain courtesan, Bindumati by name
heard of your query and performed an act of asseveration
of truth, and on account of that courtesans act, the great
Ganges is flowing backwards. So they replied.
Then filled with emotion, King Asoka went himself with
haste and asked the courtesan: Is it true what they say, that
it is by your act of asseveration of truth that this great
Ganges has been forced to flow backwards?
She said with supplication: It is true, your Majesty.
The king asked: How have you such power in performing
the act of asseveration of truth? Whoever, being of sound
mentality, would act according to your bidding? By what
authority is it that you have been able to make this mighty
river Ganges flow backwards?

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The courtesan replied: It is by virtue of the act of

asseveration of truth that I made this mighty river Ganges
flow backwards.
But the king said: How can any power be in you; you, a
woman of wicked and loose life, devoid of virtue, under no
restraint, sinful, who have overstepped all limits, and are
full of transgression, and live on the plunder of fools?
It is true what your Majesty says. This is just the kind of
creature I am. But even in such a one as I, so great is the
power of the act of asseveration of truth that I could turn
the whole world of gods and men upside down by it.
Then King Asoka said: What is this act of asseveration of
truth? Come now, let me hear about it.

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Whoever gives me gold, be he a noble or a Brahman or a

tradesman or a servant or one belonging to a class other
than the aforesaid, I regard them alike. When I see: He is
a noble, I make no distinction in his favour. If I know: He
is a slave, I despise him not. Free alike from fawning and
from dislike do I render service to him who owns me. This,
your Majesty, is the basis of the act of asseveration of truth
by the force of which I turned this mighty river Ganges
back. Replied the courtesan with supplication.
Thus, O King, there is nothing which those who are
steadfast to the truth may not receive as reward. So King
Sivi gave his eyes away to the beggar who came and asked
for them. Divine eyes arose in him and that happened by
his solemn affirmation of truth. It is indeed, said in the
sutta: When the cause has been destroyed, when there is
no longer any cause, any basis left, then the divine eye
cannot arise.

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But that is only said of the eye, the insight, that arises out
of mind-development (bhvan). Thus, should you accept it.
Well said, Venerable, you have admirably solved the
dilemma I put to you; you have rightly pointed out an apt
rejoinder; you have thoroughly overcome the words of
challenge and reproach levelled at you by the adversary.
The thing is so, and I accept it thus.
sivirjacakkhudnapaho pacamo

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6. gabbhvakkantipaha
The conception in the womb
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The Buddha has declared: Conception takes place on the

concurrence of three kammic events: there must be a
sexual union of a male and female being, at which moment
it must be the females fertile season, and a being
positioned for rebirth (gandhabba) must arise at that
singular moment.
This is an inclusive statement, unchangeable and made in
the midst of gods and men. There are also cases of
conception taking place on the confluence of only two
events (without the sexual union).
The hermit Dukula touched the navel of the female hermit,
Prik with the thumb of his right hand while she was in
her fertile season; after which the boy Sma was born.
The hermit, Mta~ga also did the same with the maiden
named Diha Ma~galik which produced the youth,
Mahabya.

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These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
Yes, the Blessed One has indeed declared those two
statements.
If the Buddha did make both of these declarations, then let
such reason be made known to me.

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Have you ever heard of the saying that the boy Sa~kicca,
the hermit Isisi~ga, and the Elder Kumra Kassapa, were
conceived through certain contributory factors?
Yes, I have heard of it. The story of their conception is
well-known. The two female deers, just after their season,
came to the place of urination of two hermits and drank the
urine together with the seman mixed therein. Due to that
urine mixed together with semen, the youth Sa~kicca and
the hermit Isisi~ga came into existence.
The Elder Udyi who made an approach to a community of
bhikkhuni stared hard at the vagina of a bhikkhuni with
lustful feeling and during the process, semen was
discharged onto the lower robe. Then the Venerable Udyi
said to the bhikkhuni: Go sister, and bring water. I want to
wash the lower garment.

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Venerable, bring the lower garment here; I will wash it

myself. It was just at the close of her season and she
sucked part of the semen with her mouth and inserted some
into her vagina. As a result of these undertakings, the Elder
Kumra Kassapa came into existence. In this way, this
episode became a talk of the people.
Do you believe these sayings?
Yes, I believe them. There are strong reasons in support of
the rational contentions made with the words: It is due to
this reason that comes about.
What is the causal factor in this case?
When the seed drops on the soil rendered fertile by
ploughing and dressing up, would it not quickly germinate
and grow?
It will.

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Even so, it was at a time when the bhikkhuni was in her

season and the womb was functioning well; also when the
last menstrual discharges had spent their force and her
season has closed, that she removed the semen from the
lower garment and inserted into that womb. Because of the
insertion of that semen, in a healthy womb of the
bhikkhuni who was in her season that a conception firmly
took place.
I therefore believe in the contributory factors involved in
the formation of conception in that case.
That is true; I, too admit the fact that a placement of semen
into the vagina is liable to produce conception. Do you also
accept the case of the Elder Kumra Kassapa decent into
the womb of his mother?
That too, I accept.
As apart from it, there is the case of the two female deers
which conceived due to their drinking of the urine (which
contained semen). Do you believe the fact of conception
taking place in those two female deers?
I believe it. A fair and smooth arrival brings prosperity and
blessing. All the rivers that flow, flow into the great ocean.
A fair and smooth arrival brings prosperity and blessings.
That is the reason why I believe. By entering through the
mouth also a conception can take place.
By drinking and sucking with the mouth, the conjunction of
two things can also take place. Do you accept also the
stated reason for the conception of the boy Sa~kicca, of the
hermit Isisi~ga, and of the Elder Kumra Kassapa?
Yes, I accept then. They amounted to a full complement of
the contributory factors.
The case of the boy Sma, and of the youth Mahabya fall
within the purview of the conjunction of three things.

226

They are fully in accord with the material and

circumstantial factors of the cases formerly described. In
that matter, I will state the circumstances.
These two, male hermit Duk|la and female hermit Prik,
dwelt in the forest with their minds inclined towards
solitude of sanctity and were striving for spiritual
advantages such as mental absorption, path to deliverance
and fruition. The rigidity of their religious practice and
training was such that their virtue made certain celestial
abodes as high as the plane of Brahm.
Then Sakka, the king of the gods approached these hermits
in the night and morning to pay his homage. Sakka, on
reflecting with veneration and kindly interest foresaw that
those two hermits would in future become blind, and so
addressed them, thus: Venerable hermits, pray adopt this
only one suggestion of mine. Let a son be gotten to you.
That son would be the means of support and a leaning staff
for both of you. The hermits saying: No, king of gods,
say no more of such words, did not accept the suggestion.
A guardian and well-wisher at all times, Sakka did make
this request a second and a third time.
For three times also, the hermits replied: No, king of gods,
give us no more advice about such things which would
indeed adversely effect our welfare. When would this body
of ours remain unimpaired, undissolved as in nature it is
bound to! Let this great earth become destroyed! Let the
summit of the rocky mountain crumble down! Let the sky
be cragged and fissured! Let the moon and sun become
detached and fall! But never shall we ourselves mixed with
the coarse, mean and vulgar functions dictated by the laws
of nature. Come not therefore into our presence.

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By coming close, you, king of gods, have cultivated

intimacy with ourselves. To us, you appear to be one who
would work for our disadvantage.
Thereupon, Sakka, who having not received a willing
assent of those hermits to his proposal raised the clasped
hands to his forehead in supplication and requested again
saying: If Venerables, you are unable to adopt my
proposal, then would you mind touching the navel of
Prik with the thumb of your right hand during her
season? By doing so, she would conceive.
Sakka, it is within bounds of correctness for us to adopt
your suggestion and would not impair our training in
morality. So let it be as you suggest. Thus, both hermits
assented.
At that time there was a deva in a deva plane, who had
amassed to his credit a considerable measure of
wholesome deeds; whose life-span as a god was at the
point of being exhaused; and who if he so desired, could
choose rebirth even in the clan of monarchs.
Sakka approached the deva and with his hands clasped and
raised to his head, made his appeal: O deva, an auspicious
day lies before you - into the womb of a good family, a
pleasant home, and with prosperous parents, awaits you.
Hear my entreaty and adopt the plan.
Sakka, what is the kind of being of which you have said in
high praise over and over again?
They are the hermits Duk|la and Prik.

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Being pleased with the words of Sakka, the deva assented

saying: Very good, Sakka. Let it be according to your
wish. I can if I so wish, be reborn as a being of my own
choice. In which of the following states would you like me
to be reborn?
Being born from eggs (aaja-paisandhi);
being born from a womb (jalbuja-paisandhi);
being moisture-born (sasedaja-paisandhi);
being spontaneously manifested as at the age of 16
years (opaptika-paisandhi).
My friend, take rebirth as a being born from a womb,
replied Sakka.
Thereafter, Sakka calculated and fixed the oncoming day
on which the event is due to take place, and then said to
hermit Duk|la: On such a date, the season of Prik will
fall due. When that period arrives, you proceed to touch
her navel with the thumb of your right hand.
O King, on the day calculated and fixed by Sakka, Prik
menstruated and the deva who was ready for rebirth, made
itself present facing the entrance of the womb. Duk|la also
touched the navel of Prik with his right thumb. In this
way, the confluence of the three contributory factors took
place. The touching of the navel had made manifest the
arising of passion in her. But as that passion arose due to a
touch on the navel, a conjunction was produced, from this
conjunctiom there was a descending into a womb. Do not
consider that actual sexual intercourse alone constitutes an
effective conjunction; for:
a bursting out into laughter also constitutes an
effective conjunction;

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a jovial talk between two peope also constitutes an

effective conjunction; and
fixing a contemplative gaze again and again also
constitutes an effective conjunction.

Because it is a precursor to the arising of passion, it is

termed an effective conjunction through the touching of the
navel, and because of the effective conjunction there arises
conception or decent into the womb.
Even without an actual sexual intercourse, a conception in
the womb arises merely through touching of the navel. As
for example, a burning fire dispels the chill from one who
approaches near it, even though the fire did not touch the
body. Even so, a conception arises merely through touch
without an actual sexual intercourse.
There are four causal factors in the conception of beings in
the womb. These are:
the force of kamma actions;
the force of the mode of birth;
the force of heredity (species or lineage);
the force of entreaty.
How does the conception of beings take place through
force of actions?
Those beings who have the roots of abounding skills arise
according to their own wish, whether among the rich
families of the ruling class, of the Brahmin class, of the
merchant class or in the heavenly abodes, or as beings born
from eggs, born from a womb, of moisture-born, or by
birth that is of spontaneous generation.

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Just as a man who is wealthy, is possessed of much

property, riches, gold and silver, vast stores of desirable
goods and grains, and has a great number of relatives and
friends; just as if such a man were to feel inwardly the
need for whatever thing such as a woman-servant, manservant, field, plantation, village, or market town, he would
whenever such need is felt, purchase such thing by
payment of property worth two to three times its value.
Even so, those beings who have the roots of abounding
skills arise according to their own wish. In this way, the
conception of beings takes place through force of kamma
actions.
How does conception of beings through the force of the
mode of birth takes place?
The fowls become conceived on account of the wind. The
egrets become conceived on account of the sound of falling
rain. All kinds of gods are beings who are not conceived in
the womb. Such beings are conceived in various forms and
manners. For instance, mankind walks on earth in various
forms and manners.
Some of the mankind cover themselves only in the front;
some cover themselves only at the back; some are naked;
some keep their heads shaven and wear white clothes;
some keep their hair knotted; some keep their heads shaven
and wear yellow-stained garments; some wear yellowstained garments but keep their hair knotted; some keep
their hair matted and wear yellow robes; some wear ropes
by winding them round the body. All of such mankind
walk on earth in various forms and manners also.

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Even so, are all of them are but mere beings. The
conception of such beings is taking place in variegated
casts, creeds, forms and manners. This is the way in which
conception of beings take place through the force of the
mode of birth.
Of the four kinds of rebirth, a being who came from an
unspecified plane of existence to be reborn as an egg-born
being and is accordingly reborn, that being which arises in
that species, which is heredity, is called an egg-born being;
or reborn as a womb-born being; or reborn as a moistureborn being; or reborn as a spontaneously manifested being
respectively. That being which arises in that species is
called a being of the species corresponding to that heredity
in which such a being is destined to be reborn.
For example, there is a mountain in the Himalaya
wilderness called Mount Neru to which all birds flocked.
All those birds become deprived of their original colours
and were uniformly clothed with a colour like gold. Even
so, any being who is to be reborn and who came over from
his original plane of existence and approaches the egg-born
species becomes deprived of its original species or lineage,
and arises as an egg-born being.
The same would be said of the being who approaches the
womb-born species; approaches the moisture-born species;
approaches the spontaneously manifested species and
becomes deprived of its original species or lineage, and
arises as a womb-born being or moisture-born being or
spontaneously manifested being respectively. This is the
way in which the conception of beings takes place through
the force of heredity.

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How does conception of beings take place through the

force of entreaty?
Suppose there is a childless family of much wealth and
property, having faith, pious and of moral habits, taking
refuge in the Buddha, dhamma and sagha; and given to
the practice of ascetism. At the same time there were a
young deva who has the root of abounding skill and is
about to pass away from the deva world. King Sakka, out
of compassion for the childless family requests the young
deva to direct his rebirth to the womb of the wife of that
family. The young, about to decease deva, agrees to the
request as he realises that his action would bring happiness
to the childless family. Thus this is a conception by means
of an entreaty.
Exactly as in the case of the boy Sma descending into the
womb of Prik because of the entreaty of Sakka. The boy
Sma amassed to his credit a considerable measure of
wholesome deeds. The parents were adherents to rigid
morality and the one who made the entreaty was Sakka.
Due to the yearning and expectancy of the three people
combined, there came about the existence of the boy Sma.
In the absence of untoward incidents, the boy Sma
escaped all possible dangers and due to the yearning and
expectancy of the three people combined, came into
existence.
Have you ever heard that due to harbouring wrongful
thoughts against hermits, a whole rich and prosperous
country, together with its population, become destroyed
and disappear?

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Yes, I have heard of it. All forests on land which are now
known as Dahaka forest, Majjh forest, Kli~ga forest,
and Mta~ga forest are those converted from formerly
populous towns. I have heard that all those populous towns
became destroyed and disappeared due to harbouring
wrongful thoughts against hermits.

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If harbouring of wrongful thoughts against hermits could

bring about a destruction and disappearance of very rich
and prosperous countries, would harbouring of thoughts of
veneration and reverence to those hermits be likely to
produce results?
It is likely.
Just so, the boy Sma came into existence due to the mental
purity of three moral people, to the creation of the two
hermits, to the creation of Sakka, and to the creation of
wholesome deeds. Bear in mind thus. These three gods
came into existence in the human species due to entreaties
made by Sakka. Who are the three? The boy Sma, King
Mahpanda, and King Kusa; these are the three. They are,
all of them, the Buddha-to-be of future times. (These were
the previous lives of the Buddha Gotama.)
Venerable, well have you explained the subject matter of
conception. You have transformed darkness into light. Free
now are the minds from arguments and challenges thrown
at by adversaries. It is so as you say, I accept that which
you have said.

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gabbhvakkantipaho chaho

234

7. saddhammantaradhnapaha
The sublime Teaching
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Venerable, the Buddha declared: But now, nanda, the

sublime teaching will endure for 500 years. But on the
other hand, the Buddha declared just before his passing
away, in response to the question put by Subhadda:
Subhadda, if the bhikkh| in this order live the perfect life,
then the world would not be bereft of arahants. [DN Sutta
16, 5:62]

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These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed declared these two statements.
These statements are outstanding in letter and in spirit. The
former statement deals with the limit of the duration of the
dhamma; the latter statement deals with the potential power
of spiritual training and practice. These two things are
widely distinct; far removed from the other as the zenith is
from the surface of the earth, as the realm of hell is from
heaven, as wholesome deed is from the unwholesome, and
as bliss is from sorrow.
I will expound the matter further on its essential connection
and give you the answers. The Blessed One in declaring
those statements was merely declaring the time of
destruction of the sublime Teaching, limiting the remainder
of its existence. For He said: The sublime Teaching,
nanda, would endure for a thousand years if no women
had been admitted to the order. But now, it will endure
only for 500 years.

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In so saying did the Blessed One foretell the disappearance

of the sublime Teaching or prohibit the knowledge of the
Four Noble Truths.
Please explain to us, Venerable.
The Blessed One was merely declaring the time of
destruction and limiting the remainder of the existence of
the sublime Teaching. As when a man whose property had
been lost might produce all his remaining property and
announce publicly: So much property have I lost; so much
is still left. So did the Blessed One make known to gods
and men what had been lost and what remained. In so
saying, He was fixing a limit to the duration of the sublime
Teaching.
The declaration, if the bhikkh| in this order live the
perfect life, then the world would not be bereft of
arahants, made just before His passing away, in response
to the question put by Subhadda, was meant to be relayed
to the sagha, deals with the potential power of spiritual
practice. You have confounded the limitation of a thing
with the statement of what it is. If you like, I will tell you
what the real connection between the two is. Therefore,
listen very carefully, and attend carefully to what I say.

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Suppose there was a reservoir of fresh water overflowing

at the brim and with an embarkment running all around it.
Now if, when the water in that reservoir had not abated,
there was a constant downpour of heavy rain above its
surface, would the amount of water in the reservoir
decrease or come to an end?
It will not decrease or come to an end.
But why not?
Because of the continuing downpour of the rain.

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Even so is the great reservoir of the sublime Teaching of

the Conqueror ever full of the clear, fresh water of the
spiritual training and practice of morality and purity of life,
and continues overflowing the embankment of the sublime
Teaching and going beyond all limits right up to the zenith.
If the sons of the Conqueror rain down it continuously, and
in addition, the rainfall of still further spiritual training and
practice of morality and purity of life, then will it endure
for long, and the world will not be bereft of arahants. It
was with this end in view that the Blessed One made the
declaration.
Now suppose again, a mighty fiery furnace was to be
continually fed with hay, dried wood and dried cow dung.
Would that fire go out?
No indeed. Rather, it would blaze fiercer and burn brighter.
Even so does the sublime Teaching of the Conqueror blaze
and shine over the 10,000 world systems by the spiritual
training and practice of morality and purity of life. And if
in addition to that, the sons of the Conqueror who:
equipping themselves with the 5 virtues that conduce
to a successful practice of mind-development devote
themselves to such a practice with zealous effort and
unremitting vigilance;
cultivating a desire for walking the path with the
threefold training: training in higher morality,
training in higher contemplation, and training in
higher wisdom, train themselves accordingly;
carry out to the full, the moral precepts pertaining to
performance and abstinence;
then this sublime Teaching of the Buddha will endure for a
very long time and the world would not be bereft of
arahants. It was with this end in view that the Blessed One
made the declaration.

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Again, suppose people were to continually polish with fine

soft red powder, a stainless mirror that was already bright
and shining, well polished, smooth and glossy; would dirt,
dust and mud arise on its surface?
No indeed. Rather it would become to a certainty even
more stainless and clean.
Even so is the sublime Teaching of the Conqueror stainless
by nature, and altogether free from dust and dirt of
defilement. If the sons of the Conqueror:
by virtue of training in morality;
by spiritual practice; and
by ascetic means of purification that tends to reduce
defilement to a minimum,
take notice and conduct themselves well, this sublime
Teaching of the Blessed One will endure for a long time
and the world would not be bereft of arahants. It was with
this end in view that the Blessed One made the declaration.
For the sublime teaching of the Blessed One has its root in
the potential power of spiritual training and practice. If the
potential power of spiritual training and practice does not
disappear, the sublime Teaching which has as its basis,
endures.
When you speak of the disappearance of the sublime
Teaching, what do you mean?
There are three modes of the disappearance of a system of
the dhamma. They are: the disappearance of attainment of
the path and fruition; the disappearance of spiritual training
and practice; the disappearance of the outward form of the
bhikkhu.

When attainment of the path and fruition disappears,

then even the man who trains himself correctly in it
has no clear understanding of it.

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When spiritual training and practice disappears, then

the code of discipline for bhikkh| as promulgated by
the Buddha also disappears and only the outward form
of the bhikkhu remains.
When the outward form of the bhikkhu disappears,
then the succession of the tradition is cut off.

These are the 3 modes of disappearance of the sublime

Teaching.
You have well explained this dilemma so profound and
made it plain. You have destroyed the knot. When an
approach is made to you, who excel leaders of all other
schools of thought, all arguments become abolished. You
have broken into pieces all false views. You have caused
all other arguments and beliefs to be off-colour and lack
lustre.
saddhammantaradhnapaho sattamo

239

8. akusalacchedanapaha
The Buddhas past unwholesome deeds
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O Venerable, when the Blessed One had attained to the

state of Buddhahood, were there still some defilement
remaining?
The Blessed One had no more defilement remaining at the
state of Buddhahood.
But is it not a fact that bodily unpleasant feeling arose in
the Buddha at some time?
Yes, at Rjagaha a splinter of rock pierced the foot of the
Blessed One; once He suffered from dysentery; and once
when the humours of His body were disturbed, the
physician Jvaka administered to Him a purge. Once when
He was troubled with wind, the Elder nanda who waited
upon Him, prepared hot water for Him.
Then, if the Buddha had attained to Buddhahood by
eradicting all defilements, this statement that a splinter of
rock pierced the foot of the Buddha, and that He suffered
bodily unpleasant feelings is perplexing.
But if it is true that a splinter of rock pierced the foot of
the Buddha, and that He suffered bodily unpleasant
feelings, then how do we view the situation that the Buddha
had attained to Buddhahood and yet suffer pain? For there
is no pain without kamma.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.

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vn:

No, it is not all feelings that has its cause in kamma. There
are 8 causes through which feeling arises, and which is
experienced by many. These are: abundance of wind, of
bile, of phlegm; the union of these humours. Variations in
a change of seasons, stress from circumstances, external
agency and only some feelings that arise in this world are
due to kamma. From these 8 causes, beings are
experiencing feelings of different kinds. Therein whoever
maintains that: It is kamma that injures beings, is denying
and ignoring the seven other causes. Such views of such
individual are wrong views.
But, these seven causes of ailment have each of them also
kamma as its origin, for they are all produced by kamma!
If all ailments were really derived from kamma, then there
would be no characteristic marks by which they could be
distinguished one from the other. When the wind is
disturbed, it is so in one of other ten ways: by cold, by
heat, by hunger, by thirst, by over-eating, by standing too
long, by over exerting, by running too fast, by external
agency or as the result of kamma. In one or other of these
ten ways, the wind is disturbed. Of these ten, nine do not
happen in a past life or in a future life, but in ones present
existence. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that all ailments
are due to kamma.
When the bile is out of order, it is due to the disturbance in
one or other of three ways: by cold, by heat, or by allergic
food. When phlegm is out of order, it is due to disturbance
either by cold, by heat, by allergic food and drink. When
either of these three humours are disturbed or mixed, it
brings about its own special distinctive ailment. Then there
are the special ailments such as the one arising from
variations in temperature, stress from circumstances, and
from external agency.

241

The ailment arising from kamma is due to acts performed

in a previous life. Thus, what arises as the fruit of kamma
is much less than that which arises from other causes. The
ignorant go to the extreme when they maintain: Every
ailment is produced as the fruit of kamma. No! One
without a Buddhas insight cannot determine the extent of
the reach of kamma result.
Now, when the Buddhas foot was pierced by a splinter of
rock, the pain that followed was not produced by the super
abundance of wind, bile, phlegm, the union of these
humours, variations in temperature, stress from
circumstances, or by the fruit of kamma but only by
external agency. It was Devadatta who harbouring hatred
against the Blessed One during a succession of hundreds
and thousands of births, moved a mighty mass of rock and
made it drop with the thought: Let it fall on the Blessed
Ones head!
However, two other rocks came and intercepted the mighty
rock dropped by Devadatta before it reached the Blessed
One; and by the force of the impact of those two rocks, a
splinter was torn off and fell upon the Blessed Ones foot,
and made it bleed. Now, this pain of the Blessed One due
to the splinter of rock must have been produced by the fruit
of His old kamma as well as by someone elses act. For
beyond these two there can be no other kind of pain.
It is just as when a seed does not germinate due to either
the poor soil, or to a defect in the seed. It is, just as when
food is not digested due either to a defect in the stomach,
or to the unclean food.

242

Even so, this pain of the Blessed One must have been
produced by the fruit of his old kamma as well as by
someone elses act. For beyond these two there can be no
other kind of pain.
However, as a matter of fact there can be no pain to a
Blessed One produced by fruit of kamma nor by allergic
food. But He experienced pain produced by the remaining
six causes. By the pain He could suffer from these
remaining causes it was not possible to deprive Him of life.

km:

vn:

km:

There comes to this body of ours, the compounds of the

four elements, feelings desirable or undesirable, pleasant or
unpleasant. Suppose, a stone were to be thrown up into the
air and it falls again onto the ground. Would it be in
consequence of any act done in the past that the stone fell
onto the ground?
No, there is no reason in the broad earth which could
experience the result of an act whether wholesome or
unwholesome. It would be reason of a present cause
independent of kamma that the stone would fall to earth
again.
Well, the Blessed One should be regarded as the broad
earth. As the stone would fall on it irrespective of any act
done by it in the past, so also was it irrespective of any act
done by Him in the past that the splinter of rock fell on the
foot of the Blessed One.
Again, men in this world tear up and also dig the earth. Is it
as a result of any act done in the past that men tear up and
also dig the earth?
No, Venerable.

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vn:

Even so was it that the splinter of the rock fell onto the
foot of the Buddha; that He once suffered from dysentery
due to the union of abundance of wind, bile and phlegm;
and that whatever bodily disease fell upon Him due to one
or other 6 causes; but not as a result of any act done by
Him in the past.
For it has been declared by the Blessed One to
Moliyasvaka: There are, Svaka, certain pains which arise
in the world from bilious humour. You ought to know for a
certainty which are those, for it is a matter of common
knowledge that there are certain pains which arise in the
world from bilious humour. But those samaa and
brhmaa who proclaim and maintain the view that
whatever being or individual experiences either an
agreeable,
disagreeable
or
neither-agreeable-nordisagreeable feeling, all such experience of such being or
individual is the result of acts done in the past.
Those samaa and brhmaa who proclaim and maintain
such view are going beyond what they know for a
certainty, are going beyond what has been commonly
proclaimed in the world as a right view. Therefore do I say
that the word of those samaa and brhmaa are wrong.
[SN 36:21]

km:

O King, not all pain is the result of kamma. You should

know for a fact that the Blessed One attained Buddhahood
after eradicting all defilements totally without any
remainder.
Very good, Venerable! I accept it as you say.
akusalacchedanapaho ahamo

244

9. uttarikarayapaha
The Buddhas meditation
km:

Venerable, it is said that everything which a bodhisatta has

to accomplish before attainment of Buddhahood, had been
fulfilled when the bodhisatta finally attained enlightenment
at the foot of the bodhi tree and became the Omniscient
Buddha. After that point, destroyed is birth, the noble life
has been lived, done is what was to be done, there is no
more of this to come. There is the belief that immediately
afterwards He went into meditative contemplation for three
months*.
[*In most orthodox literature the period of solitary contemplation
after the enlightenment under the bodhi tree was seven times
seven days.]

If the Blessed One had already achieved all that He had set
out to do at the foot of the bodhi tree, there was nothing
more to do. Then the belief that immediately afterwards He
lived in solitary meditation for three months must be
erroneous.

vn:

If the Blessed One had actually lived in solitude and

practised meditation for three months, then the former
statement must be false. There is no need for Him who had
already accomplished His task to live alone in seclusion. It
is only the sick man who has need of medicine and the
hungry man who has need for food. This question is put to
you to help us clear this doubt.
The Blessed One had already attained enlightenment at the
foot of the bodhi tree; there was then nothing that He had
still to do. The Blessed One immediately afterwards went
into meditative seclusion for three months.

245

Living alone in meditative seclusion has many wholesome

qualities. All Tathgatas who had attained to Buddhahood
had lived a life of solitude as a matter of maintenance of
natural kamma life-span.
The Buddha lived in meditative seclusion as a matter of
daily practice in the same way as a man who having been
afflicted and pained with a disease, and having recovered
his health through the care of a physician, would seek him
again, calling to mind the physician who had cured him.
There are multiple good qualities in meditative seclusion in
which all Buddhas devote themselves to, as a matter of
maintenance of natural kamma life-span. In general, some
of these qualities beneficial to meditators are:
meditation preserves him who meditates,
it gives him long life,
it endows him with power,
it cleanses him from faults,
it removes from him any bad reputation, giving him a
good name,
it destroys discontent in him, filling him with content,
it releases him from all fear, endowing him with
confidence,
it removes sloth far from him, filling him with zeal,
it takes away lust, ill will and dullness,
it puts an end to pride,
it breaks down all doubt,
it makes his heart to be at peace,
it softens his mind,
it makes him glad,
it makes him grave,
it gains him much advantage,
it makes him worthy of reverence,

246

it fills him with joy,

it fills him with delight,
it shows him the transitory nature of all compounded
things,
it puts an end to rebirth, and
it obtains for him all the benefits of renunciation.
These are the multiple good qualities of meditation in
general and for which all Buddhas, knowing these qualities,
practised living alone in meditative seclusion as a matter of
daily mindfulness living.
In essence, all Buddhas, having accomplished their task
desire to live alone in seclusion. Thus, all Buddhas practise
solitary meditation for 4 reasons only: for the comfort of
abiding in the peace and tranquillity of meditation; for the
faultless good qualities in solitary seclusion of meditation;
for it is the traditional way of living of all the Buddhas and
ariya; because it has been praised and lauded by all
Buddhas.

km:

These are the reasons for which all Buddhas practised

living alone in seclusion. So it is not because there was
something that they had yet to do or add to what they have
already accomplished, but because they perceived how
generally advantageous are the qualities of meditation that
they devote themselves to it.
Very good, Venerable! I accept it as you say.
uttarikarayapaho navamo

247

10. iddhibaladassanapaha
Exhibiting of supramundane powers
km:

Venerable, the Blessed One has declared: nanda, the

Tathgata has already developed, practised, amassed and
accumulated the 4 roads to power (iddhi-bala). Therefore,
should the Tathgata desire it, He might remain alive for a
full human life-span (yu-kappa1) or even beyond a human
life-span. [DN Sutta 16, 3:3]
Again, elsewhere, he had said: At the end of three months
from this day, the Tathgata will attain final emancipation.
[DN Sutta 16, 3:9,46]

For omniscient Buddhas do not speak without reason; they

do not speak misleading words, they declare only truth and
not words that contradict each other.

vn:

In reality, these two declarations are truly profound and

subtle, authoritative and definitive. These two statements
appear contradictory; could it be that one of them is
untenable? Out of compassion, please explain this matter
fully to establish the true dhamma and to the disentangling
of the heretical network.
The Buddha indeed declared those two apparently opposing
statements; however, the term kappa referred to by the
Blessed One implies the human life-span.
The Blessed One was not exalting His own power when He
said that He might remain alive for a human life-span but it
was for the purpose of explaining the potentials of the 4
roads to power.

248

It was as if a king were possessed of a horse most swift of

foot that could run like the wind. In order to exalt the
power of his horse, the king was accustomed to say in the
presence of all his subjects: O people assembled here, if
this noble steed of mine were to be so directed, it could
speedily cross the earth to the ocean and be back here again
in a moment!
Now though he did not actually have the speed of the horse
proved in the presence of the court, yet it has that speed
and was really able to speed across the earth to its ocean
boundary in a moment; even so, the Blessed One spoke as
He did in praise of the potentials of the 4 roads to power.
He spoke in the midst of the arahants who were endowed
with the threefold knowledge, the sixfold higher spiritual
powers and in whom all impurities and defilement have
been eradicated. His declaration, too covered gods and
men. Hence, He spoke as He did.
There was that power in the Blessed One, and by the
exercise of that power, He could have remained alive for a
full human life-span or beyond a human life-span. And yet
He did not bring forth that power in the midst of that
assembly. The Blessed One is free from desire in respects
to all conditions of future life and condemned those who
desired them.
For the Blessed One had stated: Bhikkh|, just as a very
small quantity of excrement is malodorous, even so, do I
regard the very smallest degree of future life for which I
have no words of praise; so do I find no praise in such for
the time of a single snapping of the fingers.

249

km:
vn:

km:

Now, would the Blessed One, who thus looked upon all
conditions of future life, all courses of existence, all modes
of generation as equivalent to excrement and who is
possessed of the 4 roads to power, harboured a passionate
desire for future life?
No, He would not have harboured any such passionate
desire.
Then, it must have been to exalt the potentials of the 4
roads to power that the Blessed One voiced a lions roar as
did other Buddhas in similar circumstances.
Very good, Venerable! It is so and I accept it as you say.
iddhibaladassanapaho dasamo
iddhibalavaggo pahamo
imasmi vagge dasa pah

Note:
1. yu: life, vitality, duration of life, longevity. (PTS Dictionary)
kappo: time, a short time, moment, a vast period, age, cycle. (R.C.
Childers - A Dictionary of the Pi Language)
kappa: world period (Nynatiloka Buddhist Dictionary)

250

Chapter 2
abhejjavagga
On schism
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

khuddnukhuddakapaha
Revocation of precepts
abykarayapaha
Questions not entertained by the Buddha
maccubhyanbyanapaha
The fear of death
maccupsamuttipaha
Escape from the snare of death
buddhalbhantaryapaha
Obstacles to a gift intended for the Buddha
apuapaha
An act of wrong doing
bhikkhusaghapariharaapaha
The Buddhas role as leader
abhejjaparisapaha
The Buddhas following

251
253
255
262
265
271
272
274

251

1. khuddnukhuddakapaha
Revocation of precepts
km:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Buddha: Bhikkh|, I

teach the dhamma because I know it by higher knowledge.
It is not that I teach the dhamma without knowing it by
higher knowledge.
He had also declared regarding the disciplinary rules
promulgated by Him thus: When I am gone, nanda, let
the order, if it should so wish, abolish the minor precepts
not involving questions of fundamental morality.
[DN Sutta 16, 6:3]

vn:

Now, what do you think? Were then these lesser and minor
precepts wrongly promulgated, or established in ignorance
and without due cause, that the Buddha allowed them to be
revoked after His passing away? These two statements
appear contradictory; could it be that one of them is
untenable? Out of compassion, please explain this matter
fully to establish the true dhamma.
The Buddha did indeed make those two declarations.
However, regarding the latter, the Blessed One
contemplated: Would the bhikkh| abandon the minor and
lesser disciplinary rules when I am gone?
It is as if a universal monarch were to say to his sons: This
great country, my sons, reaches to the sea on every side. It
will be difficult to maintain with the forces we have at our
disposal. I exhort you, when I am gone, abandon the
outlying districts along the border. Now, would these
princes, on the death of their father, give up those outlying
districts along the border, provinces already in their power?

252

km:

vn:

km:

vn:

km:

No indeed. The princes with lust for power and ambition

for territorial gains more than their father, would likely
desire to capture territories far larger than the size of the
one they inherited, but they would never give up what they
already possessed.
Even so was it that the Blessed One, with a view to testing
his disciples declared: When I am gone, nanda, let the
order, if it should so wish, abolish the minor precepts not
involving questions of fundamental morality. But the sons
of the Conqueror, in their eagerness for release from
suffering were avid in the practice of the dhamma and
might observe more precepts in addition to what has
already been prescribed. In such circumstances, how would
it be possible for them to give up practising the precepts?
The Buddha has used the expression: Minor precepts not
involving questions of fundamental morality. In this
expression, these people are bewildered and have fallen
into doubt; they have run into a quandary of the gravest
kind. Of what kind are those lesser precepts (khuddaka
sikkh) and of what kind are the minor precepts (anukhuddaka sikkh)?
The lesser errors in conduct are the lesser precepts, and the
lesser errors in speech are the minor precepts; and these
two together make up therefore the lesser and minor
precepts. Elders of old, too, were in doubt about this
matter and they were not unanimous on the point in the
disciplinary rules promulgated by the Blessed One.
This perplexing final word of the Conqueror which has
long lain hidden has now today been uncovered and made
clear to all.
khuddnukhuddakapaho pahamo

253

2. abykarayapaha
Questions not entertained by the Buddha
km:

vn:

Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: nanda, in

respect of all matters pertaining to the dhamma, the
Tathgata has no such thing as the closed fist of a teacher
who keeps something back. [DN Sutta 16, 2:32]
Notwithstanding such declaration, the Blessed One made
no reply to the question by the Elder Mlukyaputta. If the
Blessed One had truly declared the above, then His
refraining from replying to the question must have been
due to ignorance or He must have such a thing as the
closed fist of a teacher who keeps something back.
The Blessed One indeed declared as He did, and also, He
made no reply to Mlukyaputtas question. But such
refraining was not due to ignorance or to any act of
concealment. There are 4 ways in which a problem may be
explained. There is the problem:
to which an explanation can be given that shall be
direct and final;
to which can be answered by going into details;
to which can be answered by counter-questioning;
to which can be left unanswered.
Which is the problem to that a direct and final explanation
can be given? It is such as this:
Is corporeality impermanent?
Is feeling impermanent?
Is perception impermanent?
Are mental formations impermanent?
Is consciousness impermanent?

254

Which is the problem that can be answered by going into

details? It is such as this:
Is corporeality merely called impermanent?
Is feeling merely called impermanent?
Is perception merely called impermanent?
Are mental formations merely called impermanent?
Is consciousness merely called impermanent?
Which is the problem that can be answered by counterquestioning? It is such as this: What then? Can eyeconsciousness perceive all things?
Which is the problem that can be left unanswered? It is
such as this:
Is the world eternal? Is the world not eternal?
Is the world finite? Is the world infinite?
Is the world both finite and infinite?
Is the world neither finite nor infinite?
Are the soul and the body the same thing?
Is the soul distinct from the body?
Does a being exist after death?
Does a being not exist after death?
Does a being both exist and not exist after death?
Does a being neither exist nor not exist after death?

km:

Now, Mlukyaputtas question being one that ought to be

left unanswered, the Blessed One refrained from making a
reply. Why should it be left unanswered? Because there is
no reason or objective for answering it. For the Buddhas by
tradition and custom, never speak a word without a reason
and without an objective.
Very good, Venerable! It is so and I accept it as you say.
abykarayapaho dutiyo

255

3. maccubhyanbhyanapaha
The fear of death
km:

O Venerable, it is declared by the Blessed One: All beings

tremble at punishment, all beings are afraid of death. He
too declared: The arahant has passed beyond all fear.
How then, does the arahant tremble with the fear of
punishment? Or are the beings in the realm of hell, when
they are being burnt, boiled, scorched and tormented,
afraid of that which would release them from the burning
fiery pit of that awful place of suffering?

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
When the Blessed One declared: All beings tremble at
punishment, all beings are afraid of death; arahants were
not included, for in the course of their training to attain to
that stage, all cause of fear has been totally eradicated from
them. The Blessed One declared in respect of those beings
in whom defilements still exist, who are still infatuated
with the delusion of self, who are still uplifted or downcast
by pleasures and pains.
In all arahants, rebirth in every state has been cut off; all
causal factors of future existence destroyed; all links have
been killed. All fetters of household life broken; craving
for existence in all spheres has been uprooted. All
volitional activities have been totally cut off; wholesome
and unwholesome deeds eradicated.

256

km:

vn:

km:
vn:
km:

vn:

km:

Ignorance has been done away with; rebirth-consciousness

is no more; all defilements have been done away with and
all worldly ups-and-downs have been transcended.
Therefore, arahants do not have the emotion of fear.
But the word all does not say arahants are excluded from
the grouping. Please render a further explanation to clarify
this point.
Suppose, there were four chief ministers who were placed
in high positions of authority and who were possessors of
great wealth and following, and who were of great
influence. To them, the king issued an order with regards
to all the people in his kingdom, saying: Let all now pay a
tax and do you, as my officers, carry out what is necessary
regarding this. Now tell me, would the fear of taxation
arise in the hearts of those ministers?
No, it would not.
But why not?
The king placed these ministers in high positions of
authority. Taxation does not affect them for they are
beyond taxation. It was all people other than the four
ministers that the king referred to when he gave the order.
Even so is it with the term all beings, which was made by
the Blessed One not with regard to the arahants. In that
context, the arahant is an exception to that statement, for all
cause of fear has been removed from him. The Blessed
One spoke of those beings in whom defilements still exist,
who are still infatuated with the delusion of self, who are
still uplifted or downcast by pleasures and pains. It is with
regard to those beings that the Blessed One spoke when He
said: All beings tremble at punishment, all beings are
afraid of death. Therefore, it is that the arahant is not
made to tremble by any fear.
Please give a further explanation.

257

vn:

Suppose that in some village, the headman of the village

were to give orders to the attendant, saying: Come
attendant, bring all the villagers quickly together before
me. That attendant saying: Very well, Lord, were to
stand in the middle of the village and were to call out
thrice: Let all the villagers assemble at once in the
presence of the village headman! They should assemble in
haste according to the word of that attendant, who then
addresses the village headman saying: All the villagers
have assembled.
Now when the village headman is thus summoning, he
issues his order to all the villagers, but it is not all villagers
who assemble; only the male heads of houses will arrive.
The village headman acknowledges impliedly: This much
is the number of my villagers. There are many others who
do not come: women, men, slave girls and slaves, hired
workman, servants, village women, sick people, oxen,
buffaloes, goats and dogs and they are a good many.
But all those do not count, as it was with reference to heads
of houses that the order was issue. So, it is not of the
arahant that the Blessed One spoke when He mentioned all
beings. In that context, the arahant is an exception to that
statement, for all cause of fear has been removed from him.
The Blessed One spoke of those beings in whom
defilements still exist, who are still infatuated with the
delusion of self, who are still uplifted or downcast by
pleasures and pains. It is with regard to those beings that
the Blessed One spoke when He said: All beings tremble
at punishment, all beings are afraid of death. Therefore, it
is that arahants are not made to tremble by any fear.

258

There is non-inclusive expression whose meaning is noninclusive, and the non-inclusive expression whose meaning
is inclusive; there is the inclusive expression whose
meaning is non-inclusive, and the inclusive expression
whose meaning is inclusive. The meaning in each case,
should be accepted accordingly.

km:

There are 5 ways in which the meaning should be

ascertained: by the connection, by taste, by the tradition of
the teachers, by the meaning, and by abundance of reasons.
Herein connection means the meaning as seen in the sutta
itself; taste means that it is in accordance with the other
sutta; the tradition of the teachers means what they hold;
the meaning means what they think; and abundance of
reasons means all these four combined.
Let it go as it is, and I accept it as you say. Arahants are
exception in this phrase and it is the rest of the beings who
tremble with fear.
But those beings in the realm of hell, of whom I spoke,
who are suffering painful, sharp and severe agonies, who
are tormented with burning all over their bodies and limbs,
whose mouths are full of lamentation, cries for pity, cries
of weeping, wailing and sorrows, who are overcome with
pains too sharp to be borne, who find no refuge or
protection or help, who are afflicted beyond measure, who
in the worst and lowest of conditions are still destined to a
certainty to further pain, who are being burnt with hot,
sharp, fierce and cruel flames, who are giving utterance to
mighty shouts and groans born of horror and fear, who are
embraced by the garlands of flame which intertwine
around them from all the six directions and flash in fiery
speed through a hundred leagues on every side; can those
poor burning wretches be afraid of death?

259

vn:
km:

vn:

km:

vn:

Yes, they can be afraid of death.

But the realm of hell is a place of entire mass of pain. Why
should the beings in it be afraid of death, which would
release them from the place of the entire mass of pain?
Why should they find delight in the realm of hell?
No indeed, the beings in the realm of hell find no delight in
undergoing the torments of hell. They long to be released
from it. It is the power of death of which they are afraid.
Now this, I cannot believe, that they who want to be
released, should be afraid of death. This is a mirth
provoking affair. Is it not through death that the beings in
the hell realm can avail of the opportunity of release which
the beings there long for? Convince me by some further
explanation.
Death is a condition which those who have not seen the
Four Noble Truths (ariya sacc) are afraid of. About it,
these people are seized with dread and fear.
Whoever is afraid of a cobra is in reality in dread of death
and is therefore afraid of the cobra. So is it the same with:
elephants, lions, tigers, leopards, bears, hyenas, buffaloes,
gayals, fire, water, tree stumps, and thorns.
Whoever is afraid of a spear is in reality in dread of death
and is therefore afraid of the spear. Being afraid of cobras
and other fears are in reality only the outer surface of the
real inner fear of death itself. This is the essential nature of
fear.
All beings in whom defilement are still present are in
actual fact in dread of the unknown state of death. In this
sense even the beings in hell, who long to be released from
it, are afraid of death.

260

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

Suppose a boil was to arise on a mans body, and he, in

pain from that disease, and wanting to escape from the
danger of it, were to call in a physician. The physician,
prepares some means or other for the removal of the
disease, were to have a lancet sharpened, or to have sticks
put into the fire to be used as cauterisers, or to have
something ground on a grindstone to be mixed in a salt
lotion. Now would the patient begin to be in dread of the
cutting with the sharp lancet, the burning of the pair of
cauterising sticks and the application of the stinging lotion?
Yes, the patient would be in dread.
The sick man who wants to be free from his ailment, can
fall into dread of pain, even so can the beings in hell,
though they long to be released from it, fall into dread by
the fear of death. A man who had committed an offence
and cast into a dungeon, will long for release. The king
wishing to release him sends for him. Now would not that
man, who had thus committed an offence and knew it, be
in dread when he saw the king at the interview?
Yes, he would be in dread.
If the man who had committed an offence and longs for
release can be in dread when he sees the king at the
interview, even so, can the beings in hell, though they long
to be released from it, fall into dread by the fear of death.
Give me another illustration to convince me altogether on
this point.
Suppose a man in this world were bitten by a poisonous
snake and so should be afraid. Suppose that by the action
of the poison, he should fall and struggle and roll this way
and that. Then suppose that another man by the repetition
of a powerful charm, should compel that poisonous snake
to approach to suck the poison back again.

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km:
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km:

Now when the bitten man saw the poisonous snake coming
to him, though for the object of saving his life, would he
not still be in dread of it?
Yes, the man would still be in dread of the snake.
Now, although the intention of the snake in approaching
him is to suck the poison back again and save his life, the
man would still be in dread of the snake. Even so, can the
beings in hell though they long to be released from it, fall
into dread by the fear of death. Death is a thing dislike by
all beings. Therefore are the beings in hell in dread of it
though they want to be released from the realm of hell.
Very good, Venerable! It is so and I accept it as you say.
maccubhyanbhyanapaho tatiyo

262

4. maccupsamuttipaha
Escape from the snare of death
km:

Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: Not in the

sky, not in the oceans midst, not in the most secluded
mountain cleft, not in the whole wide world is found the
spot where standing, one could escape the snare of death.
The Blessed One, too declared that the following
discourses as protective parittni which are to be recited
for the purpose of warding off evil circumstances:
The Jewel Discourse (Ratana Sutta)
The Discourse on Loving-kindness (Metta Sutta)
The Groups of Existence (Khandha Paritta)
The Crest of Banner (Dajagga Paritta)
The protective stanza with regard to the town of
niya (niya Paritta)
The protective stanza recited by the Elder A~gulimla
(A~gulimla Paritta)
If it is as declared that no one can escape death by hiding,
then, is the seeking of protection from paritta wrong?
Alternatively, if parittni can really be a means of escape
from death, then the declaration that no one can escape the
snare of death must be false.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma.
The Blessed One has indeed declared the two quotes as
stated by you; the Blessed One has also promulgated these
parittni.

263

These parittni are only meant for the benefit of those who
have some portion of their life yet to run, who are of full
age, and who live conscious of kamma and the results of
kamma. Parittni have no power to extend the existence of
one whose life-span has come to an end.
Just as with a dry and dead log of wood, dull and sapless,
out of which all life has departed, which is devoid of any
factor of life-continuing process and which has a hollow
interior, would never become fresh again or put forth
sprouts of leaves even though a thousand pots of water
were to be poured over it.
Just as a farmer protects the grain from the influx of water
and when they are ripe and ready for harvest, prepares
them for planting at the appropriate time.

vn:
km:
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vn:

Just so the recitation of parittni for those who have a life

period to run and are full of vigour will be beneficial to
them, just as medical treatment is effective to an ailing
person not afflicted with a terminal illness.
Have you ever seen the case of a disease being turned back
by medicine?
Yes, more than a hundred of them.
In that case, your statement: Medical treatment and
recitation of paritta are alike useless, must be false.
I have seen the physicians administer medicines orally or
by way of outward applications, any by such activity of the
physicians, the disease has been assuaged.
When the voice of those who are reciting the parittni is
heard, the tongue may be dried up and the heart beat but
faintly and the throat be hoarse. But by hearing the voice of
those who are reciting, all diseases are allayed, all
calamities depart.

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km:

Have you ever seen a man bitten by a snake having the

poison removed under a spell that was recited and who
thereby rejected foreign elements from the stomach by
vomiting or purging?
Yes, I have. Such method is still being pursued in the
present day world. In that case, the saying that medical
treatment and recitation of paritta are alike useless, must
be false. Does recitation of paritta afford protection to
everybody?
It does afford protection to some, but not to others.
If it affords protection to some and not to others, then the
recitation of paritta as a means of protection does not serve
all the purpose for which it is intended.
Does food keep all people alive?
It keeps some alive, but not others.
Why not?
Because some from eating too much of the same food, die
of cholera.
If such is the case, food does not keep all men alive?
There are two reasons which make food destroy life: overindulgence and weakness of digestion. Despite its life-giving
qualities, food kills if it is consumed in the wrong way.
Even so, parittni afford protection to some, but not to
others. There are 3 reasons for this: non-protection due to
destructive kamma, non-protection due to wrong views,
and non-protection due to lack of faith. Parittni, though it
affords protection to the beings, loses its protective power
and becomes barren due to acts done by these beings
themselves.
Very good, Venerable! The entanglement has been
disentangled, the net of heresy unravelled by you, the best
of the leaders of schools!
maccupsamuttipaho catuttho

265

5. buddhalbhantaryapaha
Obstacles to a gift intended for the Buddha
km:

Venerable, it has been declared: The Buddha was regularly

offered requisites necessary for a samaa: robes, food,
lodging and medicine. It was also said that when He
entered Pacasla, the Brahmin village on alms-round, He
received nothing, and went away with an empty bowl.
If the Blessed One was regularly supplied with the things
necessary for a samaa, then He leaving Pacasla with an
empty bowl must be untrue. However, if it is true when the
Blessed One entered Pacasla on alms-round and received
nothing, then the statement that the Blessed One was
regularly offered requisites necessary for a samaa is false.

vn:

km:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
It is a fact that the Blessed One was regularly offered
requisites necessary for a samaa; and also that when He
entered Pacasla, He received nothing. That having to go
away empty-handed was the work of Mra, the evil one.
Then how was it that the perfections and fruits of
wholesome deeds laid up by the Blessed One through
countless world periods came to end that day?
How can it be possible for Mra, who had only just then
appeared to overcome the strength and influence of those
perfections and wholesome deeds laid up so long ago?

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vn:

In that case, the logical inference is that either the

unwholesome phenomenon is much more powerful than the
wholesome phenomenon or that the power of Mra, the
evil one is much greater than that of the Blessed One.
That is not enough to prove that the unwholesome
phenomenon is much more powerful than the wholesome
phenomenon or that the power of Mra, the evil one is
much greater than that of the Blessed One. An explanation
is required in this matter.
Suppose a man were to present gifts to a universal monarch
and the monarchs doorkeeper were to say to him: My
good fellow, this is the wrong time to seek the monarchs
audience. Take your gifts and leave before the monarch
inflicts punishment upon you. Then that man, in dread and
fear, would pick up the gifts, and hastily retreat.

km:

vn:

Now would that universal monarch, merely because he was

deprived of so insignificant a gift, be less powerful than
the doorkeeper? Or would the monarch never receive a gift
any more?
No, being oppressed by surliness, that doorkeeper turned
away the bearer of the gift. But from another door, gifts
more than 100,000 times as valuable might be brought in.
Even so, it was out of jealousy of his nature that Mra,
influenced the Brahman and other householders of
Pacasla. In spite of this incident, more than 100,000
other deities came up to the Blessed One, stood in
veneration with their clasped hands raised to their heads
and infused the strength-giving ambrosia, nutriment of
gods into the Blessed Ones body.

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km:

vn:

Be that as it may, the Tathgata, who was a great man, was

only able to get the four requisites at the requests of gods
and men. It does appear then, that Mras intention to stop
the supply of food to the Blessed One was successful.
Herein, my doubt is not yet fully assuaged. I am still in
perplexity and hesitation about this. My mind is not clear
how the Blessed One, who is worthy of the highest respect
and reverence, who all by Himself became the supremely
enlightened, the most exalted among the best of the best in
the world of gods and men, the main origin and primary
source of all sublime merits and virtues, the peerless, one
who was comparable only with the Buddhas of the past,
one who was unequalled, unrivalled; how so vile, mean,
deficient, immoral, and revolting act of stopping the supply
of food to Him could have been effectively perpetrated by
Mra, the evil one.
There are 4 kinds of obstacles to the giving away of gifts:
the obstacle to a gift not intended for any particular
person, and as such not yet exposed to view;
the obstacle to a gift set apart for someone;
the obstacle to a gift gotten ready for giving away; and
the obstacle to the enjoyment of the gift.
Which is the obstacle to a gift not intended for any
particular person, and as such not yet exposed to view?
It is when anyone puts an obstacle in the way of an actual
gift of a thing put ready to be given away, but not with a
view to, or having seen any particular one, an obstacle
raised, for instance, by saying: What is the good of giving
it away to anyone else?

268

Which is the obstacle to a gift set apart for someone? It is

when one puts an obstacle in the way of the actual gift of
food to be prepared and to be given to a person specified.
Which is the obstacle to a gift gotten ready for giving
away? It is when one puts an obstacle in the way when
such a gift has been gotten ready, but not yet accepted.
Which is the obstacle to the enjoyment of the gift? It is
when one puts an obstacle in the way of enjoyment of a
gift already given.
When Mra possessed the Brahmans and householders of
Pacasla village, the food in that case was neither a gift
already given to, and being enjoyed by the Blessed One;
nor was that food a gift that has been gotten ready, but not
yet accepted nor was it a gift set apart for the Blessed One.
The obstacle was put in the way of someone who was yet
to come, who had not arrived, and for whom no gift was
intended. That was not against the Blessed One alone, but
all venerable ones, who had gone out that day, and were
coming to the village, failed to receive alms.
I see no one in the world of gods, including devas, Mras
and Brahms and in the world of mankind including
samaa and brhmaa, kings and commoners, who could
put any obstacle in the way of an alms intended for, or
gotten ready for, or already given to, and being enjoyed by
the Blessed One. If anyone, being oppressed by jealousy,
were to raise up any obstacle in the way of an alms
intended for, or gotten ready for, or already given to, and
being enjoyed by the Blessed One, then would his head
split into 100 or into 1,000 pieces.

269

There are 4 qualities of the Blessed One, to which no one

can oppose or obstruct. They are:
no one can do harm to alms intended for, or gotten
ready for, or already given to, and being enjoyed by
the Blessed One.
no one can do harm to the halo of radiance of a
fathom all around the Blessed One;
no one can do harm to the jewel treasure of the
Blessed Ones supreme knowledge; and
no one can do harm to the Blessed Ones life.

km:
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km:
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All these qualities are one in essence. These qualities are

free from danger, are indestructible, unassailable and
untouchable by other beings. Mra lay in concealment out
of sight when he possessed the Brahmans and householders
of Pacasla village. It was just as when robbers, hiding
out of sight in the inaccessible country over the border,
beset the highways. But if the king caught sight of them, do
you think those robbers would be safe?
No, they would not; he might have them cut into 100 or
1,000 pieces with an axe.
Even so, Mra lay in concealment out of sight, when he
possessed the Brahmans and householders of Pacasla
village.
It was as when a married woman, in concealment and out
of sight, frequents the company of her paramour. But if she
were to carry on her intrigues in her husbands presence,
do you think she would be safe?
No, he might slay her, wound her, put her in bonds, or
reduce her to slavery.
Even so, Mra lay in concealment out of sight, when he
influenced the Brahmans and householders of the Pacasla
village.

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km:

But if Mra had interfered with any alms intended for,

gotten ready for, already given to, and being enjoyed by
the Blessed One, or with His partaking of, then would his
head have been split into 100 or 1,000 pieces.
That is so. Mra acted stealthily. Mra lay in concealment
out of sight when he influenced the Brahmans and
householders of Pacasla village. But if the same Mra
had interfered with any alms intended for, gotten ready for,
already given to, and being enjoyed by the Blessed One, or
with His partaking of, then would his head have been split
into 100 or 1,000 pieces, or his bodily frame have been
dissipated like a handful of chaff.
Venerable, very good indeed is your explanation! That is
so, and I accept it as you say.
buddhalbhantaryapaho pacamo

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6. apuapaha
An act of wrong doing
km:

vn:

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Venerable, it has been declared: Whoever deprives a living

being of life, without knowing the heinousness of his act,
he accumulates very serious demerit. But on the other
hand it was laid down by the Buddha in the disciplinary
rules for bhikkhu: There is no offence to a bhikkhu who
acts unknowingly.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Buddha did indeed declare both the statements. But
there is a nuance of meaning in these sayings. There is an
offence which is not culpable when considered in terms of
the particular nature of mental perception under the
influence of which such offence was committed.
There also is an offence which is culpable when considered
in terms of the particular nature of mental perception under
the influence of which such offence was committed. It was
with reference to this particular type that the Blessed One
laid down in the rules for bhikkhu that there is no offence
to a bhikkhu who acts unknowingly
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
apuapaho chaho

272

7. bhikkhusaghapariharaapaha
The Buddhas role as leader
km:

Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: Now,

nanda, the Tathgata has no attachment such as to think:
I will go on leading the sagha, or to think: The sagha
is dependent upon Me.
But on the other hand, when describing the virtues and the
nature of the Metteyya Buddha, He declared: He will be
the leader of the sagha several thousands in number, just
as I am now the leader of the sagha several hundreds in
number.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One indeed made both the declaration. The
sense in one passage is inclusive, while in the other it is
not.
It is not the Blessed One who seeks after a following. It
was the followers who seek after Him. The expression I
or mine are only to be understood as mere conventional
truths or concepts. They are not said in the ultimate or
highest sense. Attachment is a frame of mind alien to the
Blessed One from whom endearment and affection have
also been put away. The idea, this belongs to me is absent
in Him, too. In reality such idea is the basis of the concept
of clinging.

273

Just as the earth, is a support to the land-based beings, and

an asylum to them, and they depend on it. But the broad
earth has no longing after them in the idea that: These
belong to me. Just so is the Blessed One a support and an
asylum to all beings, but has no longing after them in the
idea that, these belong to Me.

km:

Just as a mighty rain cloud pours out its rain and gives
nourishment to grass and trees, cattle and men, and
maintain lineage thereof. All these creatures depend upon
its rain for livelihood, but the cloud has no feeling of
longing in the idea that these are mine. Just so does the
Buddha teaches all beings to know what are good qualities
and maintains them in goodness and all beings depend on
the Blessed One for their livelihood, but the Blessed One
has no feeling of longing in the idea that, these are Mine.
Why is it so? It is because of His having abandoned the
false (personality) view of I or mine.
Excellent, Venerable! The problem has been well solved by
a selection of examples. The deep and profound thing has
been brought into the open. The entanglement has been
disentangled. Darkness has been transformed into the light
of day.
bhikkhusaghapariharaapaho sattamo

274

8. abhejjaparisapaha
The Buddhas following
km:

vn:

Venerable, it has been declared: The Blessed One has a

following which can never be broken up. Again, they say:
At one stroke, Devadatta converted 500 bhikkh| who
broke away from the order.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had a following which could never be
broken up and also Devadatta, at one stroke, converted 500
bhikkh| who broke away. As a matter of fact, the breach
thus created is owing to the power of the breach maker.
Where there is one to make the breach there is nothing that
will not break up. Where there is one to make the breach, a
mother will be separated from her son, the son will break
with the mother; or father with the son, son with the father;
or brother from the sister, sister from the brother; or friend
from friend.
A boat although pieced together with timber of all sorts is
broken up by the force of the violence of the waves; a tree
in full bearing with fruits as sweet as honey is broken
down by the force of the violence of the wind; and gold of
the finest sort is debased by being alloyed with bronze.
But it is not the intention of the wise, it is not the will of
the Buddhas, it is not the desire of those who are learned
that the following of the Blessed One should be broken up.

275

And there is a special sense in which it is said that that

cannot be. It is an unheard-of thing, so far as I know, that
His following could be broken up by anything done or
taken, any unkindly word, any wrong action, any injustice,
in all the conduct, wherever or whatever, of the Blessed
One Himself.

km:

In that sense His following is invulnerable. And you

yourself, do you know of any instance in all the ninefold
word of the Buddha of anything done by a bodhisatta
which broke up the following of the Blessed One?'
No, such a thing has never been seen or heard in the world.
It is very good what you say, Venerable, and I accept it so.
abhejjaparisapaho ahamo
abhejjavaggo dutiyo
imasmi vagge aha pah

276

Chapter 3
pamitavagga
On bowing
1.

sehadhammapaha
Is the Teaching the best?
2. sabbasattahitapharaapaha
The welfare of all beings
3. vatthaguyhanidassanapaha
The secret
4. pharusavcbhvapaha
The harsh words of the Blessed One
5. rukkha-acatanbhvapaha
A tree has neither consciousness nor volition
6. pihaptamahapphalapaha
The two offerings of alms-meal
7. buddhap|janapaha
Reverence to the Blessed One
8. pdasakalikhatapaha
Injuring the Buddhas foot
9. aggaggasamaapaha
Pre-eminence of a samaa
10. vaabhaanapaha
Speaking in praise
11. ahisniggahapaha
Kindness or cruelty
12. bhikkhupamitapaha
Dismissal of bhikkh|

277
280
283
287
290
292
295
297
300
302
303
305

277

1. sehadhammapaha
Is the Teaching the best?
km:

vn:

Venerable, it was declared by the Buddha: For it is the

Teaching, Vseha, which is the best amongst those people
both in the world of the present and in the world hereafter.
He also declared: The devout layman and stream-enterer,
against whom the doors to the realms of intense misery and
suffering have been shut forever, and who clearly
comprehends the Teaching. Even such a one ought to
venerate the approach of a bhikkhu or a novice, though a
mere worldling. Please elaborate, O Venerable.
The Blessed One has indeed declared as you have quoted.
There are reasons for the paying of veneration in the
second declaration. There are these rules of conduct, the
observance of which develops a bhikkhu and there are two
outward forms which make for monkhood and which make
him worthy of the veneration being paid to him. These are:
taking delight in the noble practice of the sublime
dhamma and keeping up the uposatha without a break,
keeping up the noble practice of training, going for
alms-round and dwelling properly robed,
guarding ones sense-doors: body, speech and mind,
braving adversities such as the rigours of heat or cold,
taking delight in solitude,
having a sense of moral shame and moral dread,
being zealous in the practice of virtue,
rigidly observing the rules of moral training,
pursuing the study of the Teaching and commentaries,
taking delight in the practice of morality,
concentration and wisdom, and being free from
worldly attachments.

278

The two outward forms are; wearing of the proper robe,

and keeping ones head shaven.
In consideration therefore of the fact that the bhikkhu gives
an undertaking and practises the virtues of these rules of
conduct, that he is not deficient but perfect in all of them,
and that by being accomplished in and endowed with all
such virtues, this bhikkhu reaches forward to the condition
of the path and fruition which is the final goal of the
arahant; that this bhikkhu can enter upon and abide in this
sublime path and fruition and that being possessed of the
training that leads to the path and fruition, the devout
layman and stream-enterer should venerate a bhikkhu.
In his veneration, the devout layman and stream-enterer
should contemplate thus; this bhikkhu:
wears the outward signs and also emulates the
manners of an arahant whereas, I am incapable of
doing so;
lives within a noble community whereas I am not;
has the privilege of listening to the recitation of the
code of discipline (ptimokkha), whereas I do not;
can ordain another person as a novice (smaera) or as
bhikkhu and thus promote the expansion and growth
of the ssana whereas I cannot;
completely observes the innumerable precepts as laid
down, whereas I am incapable of doing so;
wears the outward sign and conforms to the wishes of
the Blessed One, whereas I am unable to do so;
though he is a mere worldling, does not stain his eyes
nor wear ornaments, yet is fragrant with the sweet
smell of morality that pervades his perpetual spiritual
training; while I am addicted to ornamenting, dressing
and grooming myself.

279

These are the rules of conduct and two outward forms

observance of which makes for monkhood. All these
virtues are vested in this bhikkhu. This very same bhikkhu,
though he is a mere worldling, observes such rules and
makes others follow suit; whereas, the observance of such
rules and making others follow suit is not within me.
Thus reflecting and contemplating, the devout layman and
stream-enterer should venerate the approach of a bhikkhu,
even though such a bhikkhu is a mere worldling.
Just as a prince who is taught the duties of a ruler by a
Brahmin teacher. In due time, he is ceremoniously anointed
as the king, he still venerates the approach of his old
master reflecting and considering: This Brahmin is my old
teacher who gave me knowledge of arts and sciences.

km:

Moreover, when a devout layman and stream-enterer

completes his training and attains to the stage of an
arahant, one of the following condition must be adhered to;
he must either attain complete nibbna on that very day or
ordain as a bhikkhu. For there is the condition or state of
becoming a bhikkhu and that condition, is immovable,
glorious and most exalted!
Venerable, you have thoroughly resolved this dilemma. I
am most impressed by your powerful and great wisdom.
Only one who is as wise as you would be able to
accomplish that.
sehadhammapaho pahamo

280

2. sabbasattahitapharaapaha
The welfare of all beings
km:

vn:

km:
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km:

Venerable, I have heard declared: The Blessed One

prevents what is harmful to the interests of all beings and
works for their welfare. I, too hear: When the discourse
based on the simile of the burning fire was delivered by the
Buddha, hot blood spewed out from the mouths of about 60
bhikkh|.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
Both statements are true. However, the spewing of hot
blood was not due to the action of the Blessed One in
delivering the discourse. It was due to the unwholesome
acts done by these bhikkh| themselves in some previous
life-times.
But if the Buddha had not taught that discourse, then would
those bhikkh| have spewed up hot blood?
No, they would not have. But in those bhikkh| who
followed wrong practices, the hearing of the discourse
delivered gave rise to a burning being kindled within them,
culminating in the spewing of hot blood.
In this case, it was through the Buddhas delivering the
discourse that the spewing of hot blood came about. Thus,
the Buddha must be deemed to have brought about the
death of those bhikkh|. Suppose a snake had crept into a
hole and a man needing earth were to dig that ground and
take the earth away. By his action, the entrance-hole closed
up, and the snake perished in consequence. Would not that
snake have been killed by that mans action?

281

vn:
km:
vn:

Yes.
Exactly so, the Blessed One must be deemed to have
caused the spewing of blood in those 60 bhikkh|.
When the Blessed One delivered a discourse, He is never
inspired by love or hatred to do so. Those who follow His
teaching and act accordingly are able to comprehend the
dhamma; those who follow the wrong practice would not.
Just as when a man shakes a mango tree or a jambu tree;
such of the fruits on it as are full of sap and strongly
fastened to it remain undisturbed. But those that have rotted
or weak stalks and are loosely attached, fall to the ground.
It is as when a farmer ploughs the field, accidentally, he
mows down blades of grass. Even so, the Blessed One with
no thought of love or hatred, delivers a discourse. Those
who follow the teaching accordingly are able to
comprehend the dhamma; those who do not follow
correctly do not comprehend.

km:
vn:
km:

Or just as when men crush sugarcane in a mill. In the

course of their labour, small insects that accidentally pass
into the mill are crushed also. Even so, the Blessed One,
desiring to teach beings with matured minds, turns the
dhamma-wheel. During such turning, those who follow the
wrong practice are killed like the small insects.
Then did not those 60 bhikkh| fall just because of that
discourse on the simile of the burning fire?
Does the lumberman save the log in hewing the timber
straight and clean?
No. He would have to get rid of such timber as the bends
should be discarded.

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vn:

Even so, those who follow the wrong practice would fail to
understand the Blessed Ones Teachings and be separated
from those who with mature minds practise correctly and
realise the truth of the Teachings.
Just as it is by their own unwholesome deeds that robbers
come to have their eyes plucked out, to impalement or to
the scaffold; even so, those who follow wrong practices,
through their own actions fail to realise the truth of the
Blessed Ones Teachings. The spewing of blood from the
bhikkh| is not due to the action of the Blessed One or to
the action of any one else. It was in fact due to their own
unwholesome actions that it took place.

km:
vn:

km:
vn:

km:

Suppose a man were to give ambrosia to all people, and

they, by eating it, were to become healthy and free from
every illness. But one man, on eating it, were by his
following of the wrong practice, to die. Would then the
man who gave away the ambrosia be guilty of any offence?
No.
The edible food sustains and supports the lives of all
sentient beings. But some who eat it die for some reason or
other. Would then, the man who gave away edible food be
reason of such giving away be guilty of any offence?
No.
Even so, the Blessed One gave away to all gods and men of
the 10,000 world systems the gift of the dhamma. Those
beings who are worthy would benefit therefrom; those who
are not worthy would fall and not realise the Teachings of
the Blessed One.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
sabbasattahitapharaapaho dutiyo

283

3. vatthaguyhanidassanapaha
The secret
km:

vn:

km:

vn:
km:
vn:
km:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Blessed One: Good

is restraint in action, in speech, in thought; good is restraint
in everything. The bhikkhu restrained in every way, is free
from all sorrows. On the other hand, the Blessed One
while seated in the midst of an assembly of gods and men,
discreetly exposed His male organ which was concealed
within a sheath, to Sela the Brahmin.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One did indeed made the declaration as you
quoted. He also discreetly exposed His male organ which
was concealed within a sheath to Sela1. This was in order to
remove doubt in Sela who questioned whether the Blessed
One was or was not a great man. The Blessed One
exercised His psychic power in such a way that an exact
image of His male organ was exposed to Sela even though
he was seated in the midst of an assembly.
Who would believe that only one person in the whole
assembly could perceive the male organ and that it was
invisible to all others? Please give an explanation.
Have you ever seen a man who was afflicted with a painful
disease and who was surrounded by relatives and friends?
Yes, I have.
Can they perceive the pain experienced by that man?
No, that man experienced the pain by himself.

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vn:

km:
vn:

km:
vn:
km:

vn:

Even so, it was to that doubtful one alone that the Blessed
One exercised His psychic power in showing the male
organ. Or supposed that a certain man was possessed by a
demon. Would the people on all sides of the demonpossessed man be able to see the coming of the demon?
No, only the demon-possessed man would be able to see
the coming of the demon.
Even so, it was for that doubtful one alone that the Blessed
One exercised His psychic power to show the miracle thus
performed.
The Blessed One has shown His male organ which should
not be exposed to view, and thus had performed a rare act.
The Blessed One had not shown His male organ but in fact
shown but a glimpse of it.
Even though a glimpse only was seen, a decision was
reached on the basis of the sight of that mere glimpse. It is
therefore as good as having seen the male organ itself.
It was the Blessed Ones habit to gauge the degree of
maturity of His audience before a discourse. If any deed or
act was necessary He would perform such rare acts with a
view to clearing away the doubts; so that those listeners
who were sufficiently matured would benefit from His
Teaching. If He was to detract from doing things that
should be done, those beings deserving to know the
Teachings would be deprived of the knowledge. By such
ways and means, the Blessed One had brought knowledge
and understanding of the Teachings to those beings ready
to know such truths.
A skilled physician would apply whatever medicine to help
such patient to recover. Even so, the Blessed One had, by
such ways and means as would make those beings to know
and understand the Teachings.

285

In the case of a woman who is undergoing labour pains of

a child-birth, and who thereby is obliged to expose her
female genital organ to affect the birth of the child. Even
so, the Blessed One with a view to bringing knowledge and
understanding to those beings who deserve to know such
truths, had to exercise His psychic power and show what
would not be shown normally.
If a certain person was to be able to know and understand
the truths only by seeing the heart of the Blessed One, the
Enlightened One would have shown him also His heart
through proper ways and means. The Blessed One who is
skilful in the art of discoursing, knew the right ways and
means of bringing knowledge and understanding of the
truths to those beings who are ready to know and
understand such truths.
Did not the Blessed One, understanding the inclination of
the bhikkhu Nanda, contemplated, and taking him to the
world of gods, showed him the 500 dev. By such a
manner, the bhikkhu Nanda came to know and understand
the Teachings. Thus, the Blessed One by reason of enabling
the bhikkhu Nanda to realise the truth of the dhamma went
to the extent of showing him the 500 dev. In this manner,
the Blessed One applied the right way of bringing
knowledge to those beings mature enough to know and
understand such truths.
The Blessed One went to help the bhikkhu C|apanthaka
who, being driven away by his elder brother, was in a
depressed mood. The Blessed One, knowing his inclination,
handed him a piece of shredded cloth and taught him to
contemplate while rubbing on the cloth.

286

Because of that instruction, C|apanthaka reached the state

of self mastery in the course of his meditation. In this
manner also, the Blessed One knew the right way of
bringing knowledge and understanding of the truth to those
beings deserving to know and understand such truths.
Also, in the case of Mogarja the Brahmin who put a
question to the Blessed One, which was thrice repeated and
to which the Blessed One gave no answer after reflecting:
By not giving him an answer the swelling pride of the son
of a good family will subside and vanish.

km:

By this action, the swelling pride of Mogarja subsided and

vanished and due to this, he reached the state of selfmastery in the course of his bending the mind to the
knowledge pertaining to the sixfold higher spiritual
powers.
Very good, Venerable! The problem has been cleared by
your explanation. You have provided the sons of the
Conqueror with insight. The heretics are having no words
to say in the matter because they are confronted by you
who excel all leaders of other schools.
vatthaguyhanidassanapaho tatiyo

Note:
1. Majjhima Nikya 92 - Sela Sutta, Dgha Nikya Sutta 3.

287

4. pharusavcbhvapaha
The harsh words of the Blessed One
km:

O Venerable, the Elder Sriputta, commander of the

dhamma declared: The Blessed One, bhikkh|, is perfect in
courtesy of speech. There is no fault of speech in the
Blessed One, even so, mindfulness is ever with Him, such
that there is always courtesy of speech is never a question.
On the other hand, the Blessed One, when promulgating the
offence entailing the loss of monkhood on the occasion of
the first offence of the bhikkhu Sudinna1, the son of banker
Kalanda, addressed him with harsh words calling him: A
foolish man where deliverance is concerned.
The bhikkhu, being so called, became demoralised and thus
overcome with remorse was incapacitated from
comprehending the noble path.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
What the Elder Sriputta said was true and also, the Blessed
One promulgated the offence entailing the loss of
monkhood on the occasion of the first offence of the Elder
Sudinna, addressing him with the said words.
In saying those words, the Blessed One was not motivated
by any desire to be rude, but was making a statement
having the characteristic of facts whereby no wrong was
intended.

288

By the expression, having the characteristic of facts, is

meant, that to whomever in this present body, the
comprehension of the Four Noble Truths does not arise,
then the existence of such individual as a man is fruitless
and in vain.

km:
vn:

km:

vn:
km:

It is a case of one wishing to do good but achieving what is

bad. This is what is meant by the expression: A foolish
man where deliverance is concerned. In this way, the
Blessed One addressed Sudinna with words of truth in the
natural sense and not with words that were false.
Though one desiring to abuse another uses words of truth,
we should still inflict upon him a fine of a piece of silver.
Have you ever heard of people paying veneration to, or
hailing with reverence the approach of, or showing honour
and veneration to, or making gift offerings to a person who
commits faults or wrong doings?
No, whoever commits faults or wrong-doings of whatever
sort and for whatever reason, such a one is worthy of
reproof and punishment and they would behead him.
If so, the Blessed One had done what should be done and
avoided doing what should not be done.
In doing what should be done, the opportunity that is fit
and proper for doing so, should also be put into
consideration.
A mere hearing about the Blessed One brings fear and
shudder to the hearts of gods and men; and arouse their
moral shame and moral dread. The actual sight of Him
brings to them an excessive amount of fear and shudder
and also of moral shame and moral dread. Sitting close to
Him in interview brings still much more amount of fear
and shudder and also of moral shame and moral dread.

289

vn:

km:
vn:

km:

Would a physician administer pleasant things as a medicine

in cases where the ailment of the body is due to wetness
caused by excessive accumulation of hard stool, or to
disruption of the conjunction of blood, bile and phlegm?
No, he would administer sharp and powerful drugs that
would mitigate the rigour of the disease or cure it.
Even so, the Blessed One bestows admonition for the sake
of dispelling all diseases of defilement. The words of the
Blessed One, even when they are harsh, have the effect of
softening the beings and making them tender-hearted. Just
as hot water softens and makes tender anything capable of
being softened or made tender, even so are the words of
the Blessed One, which even when they are harsh, are
beneficial and are associated with compassion.
Just as the words of a father are beneficial and are
associated with love and compassion towards his sons and
daughters; the words of the Blessed One, even when they
are harsh, can dispel the defilements of the beings. For
example, the urine of the cattle, even though evil-smelling
for drinking purposes, yet dispels diseases. The swallowing
of the nasty drugs also dispels diseases. A flake of cottonwool, even though it is massive, makes no pain by falling
onto a man. Even so, the words of the Blessed One, though
they are harsh, bring suffering to none!
Well have you made this problem clear by many a simile.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
pharusavcbhvapaho catuttho

Note:
1. Book of the Discipline III, v11-12.

290

5. rukkha-acetanbhvapaha
A tree has neither consciousness nor volition
km:

O Venerable, the Blessed One had said: O Brahmin,

knowledgeable as you are, why by putting forth relentless
energy and with monotonous regularity are you enquiring:
Did you sleep well and soundly, too? of this wild Palasa
tree that is having neither consciousness nor volition?
[Jataka 307]

On another occasion, He said: And the Aspen tree said in

reply: Brahmin Bhradvja, I have something to say to you
presently. So please listen to what I have to say.
If a tree has neither consciousness nor volition, then the
statement that the Aspen tree had a talk with the Brahmin
Bhradvja must be false. If on the other hand, it was a fact
that the Aspen tree had a talk with Brahmin Bhradvja,
then the saying about a tree having neither consciousness
nor volition, must be false.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed made both statements. That
about the Aspen tree holding a talk is to be understood in
terms of the phraseology which is in common use among
the people. There is no function of talking by a tree which
is devoid of consciousness or volition. In this respect, the
designation tree is strictly applicable to the guardian deity
of the tree.

291

The expression that the tree talks is in terms of the

phraseology which is commonly used by the people. As for
example, a cart loaded with paddy is conventionally called
a paddy-cart although in reality such cart is made not out
of paddy but only of wood. Just because this cart is loaded
with paddy, the people commonly call it a paddy-cart.
As for another example, when a man is churning some
milk, the common expression is that he is churning butter.
But it is not butter that he is churning but milk.
As for another example, whoever is making something that
does not really exist such as horns of a hare; the common
expression is that he is making that which all the while as
yet is not. In this way, the people use conventional terms of
expression.

km:

Even so, there is no function of talking by a tree which is

devoid of consciousness or volition. In this respect, the
designation tree is strictly applicable to the guardian deity
of the tree. The expression that, the tree talks is in terms
of the phraseology which is in common use among the
people.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
rukkha-acetanbhvapaho pacamo

292

6. piaptamahapphalapaha
The offer of the two alms-meals
km:

Venerable, it was declared: The Blessed One, after he had

eaten the alms-food offered by Cunda the goldsmith, felt
sharp deadly pains that eventually led to His death.
On the other hand, the Blessed One also said: nanda,
there are two offerings of alms-food1, both of which are
equal of merits in all respects to each other; moreover both
are superior in merits to all other kinds of alms-food ever
offered. [DN Sutta 16, 4:56]

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
It was indeed declared, as you have quoted. Out of these
two offerngs which surpassed all others, one is that which,
when the Blessed One has partaken of it, He attains to
supreme Enlightenment.
The other is when He partakes of it, He passes away to
attain to final emancipation with no more groups of
existence remaining.
For that alms is full of virtue and full of advantage. The
gods, exclaimed in joy and gladness at the thought: This is
the last meal the Blessed One will take; and by their divine
power sprinkled nourishment onto that tender pork. That
was in itself in good condition, light, pleasant, full of
flavour and good for digestion.

293

It was not because of it that any sickness fell upon the

Blessed One, but it was because of the period of life He
had to live having been exhausted and the natural weakness
of the body, that the disease arose and His sickness
deteriorated.
It was just as when, an ordinary fire is burning, if fresh
fuel be supplied, it will burn up still more. Or just as when
a stream is flowing along as usual, if a heavy rain falls, it
will become a mighty river with a great rush of water.

km:

vn:

km:

vn:

Or just as when a stomach whose digestive organs are

prone to deteriorate will, deteriorate further if the food to
which it is not accustomed to is eaten. Even so, it was
because of the period of life He had to live having been
exhausted and the natural weakness of the body, that the
disease arose and His sickness deteriorated. Thus, this was
not the fault of the food that was eaten and no blame can
be apportioned to that.
But why is it that those two offerings of alms-food are so
specially meritorious, outstripping in an excessive measure
the merit of offering of all other kinds of alms-food?
Because of the exalted attainment which resulted from
these two offerings of alms-food that the merits far outstrip
all other offerings at all other times.
What are the exalted attainment in which these two
offerings of alms-food are deemed equal in all respects and
greatness?
By entering on an abiding, in those 9 successive stages of
meditative absorption which are of increasing sublimity
(first the 4 fine-material absorptions, then the 4 immaterial
absorptions, and finally the state where perceptions entirely
cease) and then returning through all these stages in the
reverse order.

294

km:

vn:
km:

Merits from these two offerings of alms-food far outstrip

all other offerings at all other times.
Was it on the two days, the day on which the Blessed One
attains to supreme and perfect Enlightenment, and the day
He passes away to attain the final emancipation that the
Blessed One attained to those conditions in the highest
degree?
Yes.
It is a most wonderful thing that of all the great and
glorious gift-offering ever presented to the Blessed One
during His life-time, not one can be compared with these
two alms-food offering. Most marvellous is it, that even as
those 9 successive stages of meditative absorption are
glorious; even so, are those two alms-food offerings made,
by their glory, of greater fruit and greater beneficial
reward than any other.
Very good, Venerable! This is so and I accept it as you say.
piaptamahapphalapaho chaho

Note:
1. The offer of the two alms-meals refers to: milk rice offered by Sujta
to the bodhisatta Gotama before he attained Enlightenment; and a dish
of tender pork offered by Cunda to the Buddha, the last meal before the
Buddhas parinibbna.

295

7. buddhap|janapaha
Reverence to the Blessed One
km:

vn:

Venerable, the Blessed One declared: Do not be

preoccupied, nanda, with honouring the remains of the
Tathgata. On the other hand he said: Honour the relic of
the Tathgata who is worthy of honour. By doing so,
people can earn their merit where they go from this world
to the heavenly world of gods.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed declared such statements. The
first injunction was laid down not with reference to all
beings but only to the sons of the Conqueror. Veneration is
not the work of the sons of the Conqueror whose legitimate
duty should be:
to contemplate on the true nature of all
compounded things;
to call into play a full rational exercise of mind;
to contemplate and practise the four foundations of
mindfulness;
to hold fast to contemplation on the most sublime
mind-object;
practise for the eradication of defilements; and
to strive for attainment of arahantship which is the
goal all are seeking.
Veneration is the legitimate work of gods and men who do
not constitute as being members of the sagha.

296

That is so, just as it is the business of the princes of the

earth to train themselves in the art of warfare and war
strategy. Just as it is in the business of mankind of other
classes, such as traders and poor people to plough fields, to
trade goods, and tend to cattle.
In other words, it is the business of mankind of other
classes such as traders and poor people to be well versed
in: mystic and occult powers, sacrificial formula, sacred
Brahmanical songs, devotion, worship and propitiation, the
code of magic, palmistry, legends, ancient book,
lexicography, prosody, phonology, verses, grammar,
astrology, interpretation of omens, interpretation of
dreams, etymology, interpretation of signs, the six books
on prophesying, and foretelling the eclipses of the sun and
the moon. Still others: prognostications to be drawn from
the flight of comets, the junction of planets, the fall of
meteors, earthquakes, conflagrations and signs in the
heavens and on the earth, arithmetic, casuistry,
interpretation of the omens to be drawn from dogs, deer,
rats and mixtures of usually estranged beings and from the
sounds and cries of birds.

km:

So it was, in the sense of devoting each to his own

legitimate business and not to such as are not, that the
Blessed One had in mind, when declaring: Do not be
preoccupied, nanda, with honouring the remains of the
Tathgata. If the Blessed One had not declared as such, the
bhikkh| would have occupied themselves solely with
paying reverence to Him through His bowl and robes till
those relics have worn themselves out.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
buddhap|janapaho sattamo

297

8. pdasakalikhatapaha
Injuring the Buddhas foot
km:

Venerable, it has been declared: When the Blessed One

walked, the place where He walks on, though it is void of
consciousness or volition, heave and adjust itself till it is
without undulations and become comfortable to walk on.
On the other hand, they declared that a splinter of rock
grazed the foot of the Blessed One as it fell; why did it not
turn aside?

vn:

km:
vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
O King, both statements are correctly stated. But that
splinter of rock did not fall by itself. It was thrown down
by Devadatta; through hundreds of thousands of existences,
had Devadatta borne a grudge against the Blessed One.
It was through that hatred that he pushed a rock as huge as
the summit of a house and dropped it with the intention of
making it fall upon the Blessed Ones head. But two other
rocks came together and intercepted the rock before it
reached the Blessed One and by the force of their impact, a
splinter was torn off, and fell in a direction that struck the
Blessed Ones foot.
But just as those two rocks intercepted that rock so could
they have intercepted the splinter also?
A thing intercepted, either falls or flows away and does not
stay where it is.

298

Just as water, when it is taken into the hand escapes or slips

through the fingers, and does not stay there; or just as milk,
butter milk, honey, ghee, oil, fish gravy, or meat gravy
when it is taken into the hand, escapes or slips away
through the fingers.
Or just as subtle, minute, dusty grains of sand, when they
are taken into the hand and you close your fist on them,
escape or slip away through the fingers. Or just as rice
when it is taken into the mouth will sometimes fall away in
a morsel or slip out of the mouth.

km:
vn:

Even so, those two other rocks came together and

intercepted the falling rock and by the force of their impact
a splinter was torn off, and fell in a direction that struck
the Blessed Ones foot.
Well, let that be so. But the splinter ought at least to have
paid as much respect to the Blessed One as the earth did.
There are 12 kinds of people who pay no respect. They are:
the lustful man, who being overwhelmed by lust, will
pay no respect;
the angry man, who being overwhelmed by ill will ...;
the deluded man, who being overwhelmed by delusion
...;
the conceited man, who being overwhelmed by
pride...;
the man who has no self-respect, who being
overwhelmed by the lack of honour or distinction ...;
the impetuous man, who being overwhelmed by the
lack of restraint ...;
the mean person, who being overwhelmed by
meanness ...;
the slavish man, who being overwhelmed by the lack
of personal freedom ...;

299

the lowly person, who being overwhelmed by

craftiness ...;
the wretched man, who being overwhelmed with
misery ...;
the greedy man, who being overwhelmed by
covetousness ...; and
the busy man in his search after gain, will pay no
respect.
These are the 12 kinds of people who pay no respect.

Just as fine, subtle and minute grains of sand, when carried

away by the force of the wind are sprinkled down, and not
by design, in any direction they may happen to take. If that
rock splinter had not been separated from the rock of
which it formed a part, it too, would have been intercepted
by their meeting together. But as it was, it was neither
fixed on the earth, nor did it remain stationery in the air,
but fell wherever it may, and by chance struck the Blessed
Ones foot.

km:

The real cause of that rock splinter striking the foot of the
Blessed One is the evil destiny of suffering and torment in
hell that awaited Devadatta who was ungrateful, deceitful
and cunning.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
pdasakalikhatapaho ahamo

300

9. aggaggasamaapaha
Pre-eminence of a samaa
km:

O Venerable, the Blessed One declared: A man becomes a

samaa when all cankers (sava1) have been eradicated.
Conversely, the Blessed One also said: A man who is
possessed of four dispositions is called a samaa by the
world; and in this passage these are the 4 dispositions
referred to: long suffering, temperance in food,
renunciation of sensual pleasures and one without
attachment.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
Both statements, O King, were made by the Blessed One.
But the second was said of the characteristics of men who
are still not totally free from sava, that these men are still
striving to eradicate defilement; and all those dispositions
are found in them.
The first is an inclusive statement; that all in whom the
sava are destroyed are samaa. And moreover, of all those
who are made perfect by the eradication of defilement, if
you evaluate them in order of freedom from sava, then
the samaa in whom the sava are destroyed is
acknowledged to be the chief.

301

Just as of all flowers produced in the water or on the land,

the double jasmine is acknowledged to be the chief, all
other kinds of flowers of whatever sort are merely flowers,
and taking them in order it is the double jasmine that
people most desire and like.

km:

Or just as of all kinds of grain, rice is acknowledged to be

the chief, all other kinds of grain, of whatever sort are
useful for food and for the support of the body, but if you
take them in order, rice is acknowledged as the best.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
aggaggasamaapaho navamo

Note:
1. sava is synonymous with kilesa; that which intoxicates the mind,
bemuddle it, be foozle it, so that it cannot rise to higher things. Freedom
from asava constitute arahanship. Sensual desires, lust of life,
speculation (heresy), and ignorance are the constituents of sava.

302

10. vaabhaanapaha
Speaking in praise
km:

Venerable, the Blessed One declared: Bhikkh|, if others

should speak in praise of Me, of the dhamma or of the
sagha, you should not on that account, be filled with
pleasure or gladness, or be lifted up in mind.
Conversely, the Blessed One was acknowledging the praise
shown by Sela the Brahmin and He reciprocated by
confirming His own special qualities, thus: A king I am,
Brahmin Sela, the peerless king of the dhamma. With
supreme knowledge I set rolling the wheel of dhamma
which rolls like the jewel treasure wheel of a monarch and
which no one else can turn or set to roll. [MN Sela Sutta 92]

vn:

km:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
These statements were indeed declared by the Blessed One.
It is also true that the Blessed One was acknowledging the
praise shown by Sela. In this case, it was spoken not for the
sake of worldly gain or fame, or for the benefit of self, or
in praise of the sagha, or for the sake of winning
devotees and followers; it was said in sympathy,
compassion and welfare of Sela and his 300 followers, that
the Blessed One replied to Brahmin Sela by confirming His
own special qualities.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
vaabhaanapaho dasamo

303

11. ahisniggahapaha
Kindness or cruelty
km:

vn:

Venerable, the Blessed One declared: Not injuring living

beings, dwell full of love and kindness. He also said: One
who deserves punishment should be punished and who
deserves honour should be honoured. Now, punishment
means cutting off of hands and feet, flogging, casting into
bonds and putting into a cage, such other tortures, and
killing and destroying of life.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One did declare those statements. The first is a
dhamma accepted and desired by all the Buddhas. It is an
admonishment as a matter of routine, a fundamental basis
of all teachings. This saying is true indeed. The dhamma
has non-violence and non-injury as its characteristic. This
saying is in accord and complete harmony with facts.
As regards the second, this is a terminology common in the
world. The highly spirited mind should be subdued and the
depressed mind should be uplifted and encouraged;
unwholesome mind should be suppressed and the
wholesome mind be encouraged. The wrong way of
thinking should be suppressed and the rational way of
thinking be encouraged. The wrong way of conduct should
be suppressed and the right way be encouraged. The evil
person should be suppressed and the virtuous person
honoured. The robber is to be suppressed and the honest
person honoured.

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km:

vn:

km:
vn:
km:
vn:

km:
vn:
km:
vn:

km:
vn:
km:

Let that be so. But now, in that last word of yours, you
have come round to the sense in which I put my question.
For how is the robber to be suppressed?
One who sets to work to suppress the robber may thus do
the suppression. If deserving of rebuke let him be rebuked;
if deserving of a fine let him be fined; if deserving of
banishment he should be banished; if deserving of
confinement let him be confined and if deserving of death
let him be put to death.
Is execution permitted by the Buddha?
No.
Then why should the Blessed One permit a deterring
punishment to the robber?
It is not that the robber, who deserves death, is being put to
death by reason of the opinion put forth by the Blessed
One. He suffers by reason of what he himself has done. In
other words, a deterring punishment is being meted out
according to the law of righteousness. Would you seize and
kill a man walking innocently along the streets?
It would not be justified.
Why?
Because of his innocence.
Even so, the execution of the robber is not by reason put
forth by the Blessed One. He suffers because of what he
has done. In executing the robber how can any blame be
put on the teacher who admonishes?
That is so, blame cannot be apportioned to the teacher.
Truly the Teaching of the Blessed One is a righteous one.
Very good, Venerable!
ahisnigghapaho ekdasamo

305

12. bhikkhupamitapaha
Dismissal of bhikkh|
km:

O Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: I am not

prone to getting angry and am free from spikes or stakes of
misconduct.
On the other hand, the Blessed One dismissed the Elders
Sriputta and Moggallna, together with the bhikkh| who
formed their company of disciples. How now, was it in
anger that the Blessed One sent away the whole company,
or was it in pleasure that He sent them away?

vn:

km:

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One did indeed state as you said. In the
dismissal of the Elders Sriputta and Moggallna, together
with the bhikkh|, it was not made in anger.
Suppose a man were to stumble and fall upon the broad
earth. Would it be that broad earth, being angry with him,
had made him fall?
No indeed. The broad earth feels neither anger nor delight
against any man. It is altogether free from love or hatred. It
would be by reason of his own carelessness that the man
stumbled and fell.
Even so do Buddhas experience neither anger nor delight.
The Buddhas who are worthy of the highest veneration, are
altogether free from love or hatred. Those bhikkh| were
sent away by reason of what they themselves had done.

306

km:

vn:

km:

The great ocean has no association with any corpse. Any

foul and dead body in it will be quickly cast high and dry
onto the shore. Does it mean that the great ocean cast up
that foul and dead body in anger?
Not so. The great ocean feels neither anger against any, nor
does it take delight in any. It is altogether free from love or
hatred.
Even so do Buddhas experience neither anger nor delight.
The Buddhas who are worthy of the highest veneration are
altogether free from love or hatred. Those bhikkh| were
sent away by reason of what they themselves had done.
Just as a man who stumbles against the ground is made to
fall, so is he who stumbles in the dhamma and discipline of
the Conqueror is made to go away. When the Blessed One
sent those bhikkh| away, it was with His wish for their
advantage, for their welfare, for their bliss and for their
purification and with His thoughts: By thus being sent
away they would be delivered from rebirth, ageing and
death. [MN 67 - Ctumasutta]
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
bhikkhupamitapaho dvdasamo
pamitavaggo tatiyo
imasmi vagge dvdasa pah

307

Chaper 4
sabbautaavagga
On omniscience
1.

iddhikammavipkapaha
Kamma result
2. dhammavinayapaicchannpaicchanapaha
The grace of dhamma and vinaya
3. musvdagarulahubhvapaha
The offence of telling a lie
4. bodhisattadhammatpaha
Events pertaining to a potential Buddha
5. attaniptanapaha
Extinction of rebirth
6. mettbhvannisasapaha
The blessings of loving-kindness
7. kusalkusalasamavisamapaha
Wholesome and unwholesome kamma actions
8. amardevpaha
The fidelity of Lady Amar
9. arahanta-abhyanapaha
The fearlessness of the arahant
10. buddhasabbaubhvapaha
Omniscience of the Buddha

308
311
314
316
319
323
326
333
335
338

308

1. iddhikammavipkapaha
Kamma result
km:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Blessed One:

Among my disciples in the sagha who are possessed of
psychic power, Mahmoggallna is pre-eminent.
But on the other hand, they say that his death accompanied
by attainment of final emancipation took place by his being
beaten to death by robbers with clubs.
If the Elder Mahmoggallna had really attained to
supremacy in psychic power, then the saying that his death
accompanied by attainment of final emancipation took
place by his being beaten to death, is untrue.
But if what happened to the Elder Mahmoggallna is true,
then the saying that he had really attained to supremacy in
psychic power must be wrong. Why could he not, by the
exercise of his psychic power, prevent his being beaten to
death? Was he not worthy of all gods and men taking
refuge in him?

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One did declare that Mahmoggallna is preeminent among His disciples with psychic power. He was
nevertheless beaten to death and thereby his death took
place accompanied by his attainment of final emancipation.

309

km:

vn:

Are not both of these things, psychic power and kamma

result alike, unthinkable1? Can the unthinkable kamma
result not be held back by the unthinkable psychic power?
Just as those who want fruits will knock a wood apple
down with a wood apple, or a mango with a mango, so
ought not the unthinkable psychic power knock down and
displace the unthinkable kamma result?
Even among things which are unthinkable, still one is in
excess above the other, one more powerful than the other.
Just as the monarchs on earth are alike in kind, but among
them, so alike in kind, one may overcome the rest, and
bring them under his command.
It is as when any man has committed an offence against the
law. Neither his mother nor his father, neither his sisters
nor his brothers, neither his friends nor his initimate
associates can protect him. He has fallen therein under the
power of the king who will issue his command regarding
him. And why is that so? It is because of the wrong that the
man has done.
It is just as when a great forest fire has broken out on this
earth, and even a thousand pots of water cannot be of any
avail to prevent its spreading. The fire is the master and
overpowers all. And why is that so? It is because of the
fierceness of its heat.
Even so, among the things which are unthinkable, it is the
kamma result which is by far the most powerful. It is the
kamma result which overcomes all the rest, and no other
influence is of any avail to the man in whom kamma result
is working out its inevitable end.

310

km:

That is why, the Venerable Mahmoggallna, who at that

time was being visited by evil kamma result and who was
being beaten to death, was yet unable to make use of his
psychic power.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
iddhikammavipkapaho pahamo

Notes:
1. Acinteyya Sutta (the Discourse on the Unthinkables): Bhikkh|, there
are these four unthinkable, not to be thought of, thinking of which
would lead to madness and frustration. What are the four?
the realm (gocara) of Blessed One is unthinkable, not to be
thought of, thinking of which would lead to madness and
frustration;
the range of jhna attained by one who has practised jhna is
unthinkable, not to be thought of, thinking of which would lead
to madness and frustration;
the resultant of kamma is unthinkable, not to be thought of,
thinking of which would lead to madness and frustration; and
evolution of the world (loka-cinta) is unthinkable, not to be
thought of, thinking of which would lead to madness and
frustration.
(A~guttara Nikya, Catukka-nipta, Apaaka Vagga, 7th sutta)

311

2. dhammavinayapaicchannpaicchannapaha
The grace of dhamma and vinaya
km:

Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: Bhikkh|,

the dhamma and the vinaya which are proclaimed and
promulgated by the Tathgata, are graceful only when they
are on display (as in worn on the body frame of the
bhikkh|) but are not when they are concealed (as in kept
away or hidden and not worn on the body of a bhikkhu).
But on the other hand, the recitation of the ptimokkha and
the whole of the vinaya are to be recited in secluded
privacy. In the Blessed Ones ssana, the vinaya can be
graceful if kept on display whenever a suitable opportunity
presents itself for doing so. For what reason can it be
graceful?

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
O King, both sayings were indeed by the Blessed One. But
this does not apply to all cases. They are to be closed and
kept private in due reverence of monkhood only.
The recitation of the rules of training for bhikkh| is kept
private and secluded up to a certain degree on three
grounds:
because that is the traditional custom of previous
Buddhas;
out of respect for the dhamma;
out of respect for the position of a bhikkhu thus the
recitation should be kept private to bhikkh| only.

312

How does the traditional custom of previous Buddhas

constitute as a reason for keeping the recitation private and
secluded?
There are people of different characters and professions in
the world, such as wrestlers, tumblers, jugglers, actors,
ballet dancers, and followers of the mystic cult of the sun
and moon, the goddess of fortune and other gods. The
uniqueness of each of these are passed to their own only
and kept private.
Exactly so is the practice of reciting of the bhikkh| rules in
the midst of bhikkh| only in the privacy of their own
community. This was the universal customary practice of
the previous Buddhas.
How is it that the recitation of the rules of training for
bhikkhu is kept private and closed off to others out of
respect for the rules themselves?
These rules of training are of great weight and
responsibility. When practised correctly and with devotion,
they lead to arahantship.
For one who has attained to proficiency in recitation of the
rules may exhort another: Let not this recitation of the
rules be corrupted by those who do not practise it correctly
and with devotion, lest they should treat it with contempt.
Such is the reason for keeping the recitation private and
closed off to others, out of reverence for the rules
themselves.

313

How is it that the recitation of the rules of training for

bhikkh| is kept private within the community of bhikkhus
alone? This is because the stature and nobility of
monkhood is priceless, its value immeasurable. Thus, the
recitation of the rules of training for bhikkh| is carried out
amidst the community of bhikkh| and closed off to others.

km:

Just as if there be any priceless thing, in clothing, in

covering, in elephants, chargers or chariots, in gold, silver,
rubies, pearls, women, or the ever conquering heroes, all
such things are the pre-requisites of kings. Likewise,
whatever is most priceless in the way of learning of the
Blessed Ones word, of training, of restraint of the senses,
and of restraint to the moral code; all these are the prerequisites of a bhikkhu. This is why the recitation of the
rules of training for bhikkh| is kept private and closed off
to others in reverence to the stature of monkhood.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
dhammavinayapaicchannpaicchannapaho dutiyo

314

3. musvdagarulahubhvapaha
The offence of telling a lie
km:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Blessed One:

Telling a deliberate lie is an offence entailing loss of
monkhood. Again He said: By telling a deliberate lie, a
bhikkhu commits a minor offence, one that ought to be the
subject of confession made before another bhikkhu.
Now, what is herein the distinction, what is the reason, that
by telling one kind of lie, a bhikkhu commits an offence
entailing loss of monkhood and by telling another kind of
lie, he is guilty only of an offence that can be atoned for.

vn:

km:

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed made both declarations. A
deliberate lie is a light or heavy offence depending on the
circumstances of the case.
Consider this, suppose a man were to give another man a
slap with his hand, what punishment would you inflict upon
him?
If the other man were to say: I cannot overlook the
matter, then neither should we be able to pardon the
offender, but should inflict upon him a monetary fine in
awarding the sentence.
Suppose that very man were to give you the slap with his
hand, what would then be the punishment?

315

km:

vn:

km:
vn:
km:

We should condemn him to have his hands and feet cut off,
and his head decapitated. Or we should have all houses and
possessions of the offender destroyed or put to death all his
family to the seventh generation on both sides.
But what is the distinction? Why is it that for one slap of
the hand on one person there should be a gentle sentence of
a monetary fine, while for a slap given to you there should
be a fearful retribution of having the assailants hand and
feet cut off, and his head decapitated, having all houses and
possessions of the assailant confiscated, or have all his
family to the seventh generation on both sides put to death?
Because there is a difference in the person assaulted.
Exactly so. Telling a deliberate lie is a light or heavy
offence according to the circumstances of the case.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
musvdagarulahubhvapaho tatiyo

316

4. bodhisattadhammatpaha
Events pertaining to a potential Buddha
km:

Venerable, it has been said by the Buddha in the discourse

on pre-destined events: From the moment of their being
prophesied as potential Buddha (bodhisatta) the destiny of
each is naturally settled in regard to:
His parents;
His omniscience (sabbautaa);
His two chief disciples (aggasvaka);
His son; and
His special attendant.
But on the other hand, the Elders said: When yet dwelling
in Tusita1 heaven, the potential Buddha made the 8 great
investigations. He investigates:
the time whether the right moment to be reborn as
a human had arrived2;
the continent in which his birth would take place3;
the country where his birth should take place4;
the family to which he is to be born into5;
the mother who is to bear him6;
the life span she would have after his birth took
place7;
the month his birth is to take place; and
the time of his renunciation.
Looking closely at the import of these two declarations,
they are are confusing; one contradicts the other, surely
one of them must be false. We are caught in a dilemma,
confusing and controversial, which we find great difficulty
to come to grips with, we thus request that you extricate us
from this predicament.

317

vn:

From the moment of his being prophesied as potential

Buddha, his destiny is naturally settled in regard to his
parents. The potential Buddha, while in Tusita heaven, also
investigates the family in which he is to belong. How does
he investigate? He contemplates: Which family, nobles or
Brahmans, should the future Buddha be born into so as to
be of help to him in his struggle to find freedom from
suffering.
Before venturing into important decisions in significant
situations, research and investigations are necessary for
those decisions to bear good fruit. The Buddha has
suggested 8 situations that investigations are necessary in
respect of good possibilities in the future. These 8 are:
A merchant should investigate goods before he
trades in them.
An elephant should investigate with its trunk the
journey it has yet to perform.
A caravaneer should investigate in advance the next
place of halt on the long journey.
The captain of a ship should investigate the
terminus of his journey on the other shore before
he sets sail.
A physician should find out the period of life that
had elapsed before he approaches a patient for
giving him treatment.
A man who is about to mount a frail bridge should
ascertain beforehand that it is yet strong enough to
stand his weight.
A bhikkhu should ascertain the time that is yet
available before he begins to eat his meal.
And finally, the potential Buddha, before he enters
the womb, should investigate whether he should be
born into the family of a noble or of a Brahman.

318

km:

Thus, it is a matter of tradition that the investigation at this

time was made and not that it contradicts the set practice of
being reborn into the human realm.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
bodhisattadhammatpaho catuttho

Notes:
1. This is where bodhidattas dwell as their final birth before finally
being reborn on earth to attain enlightenment.
2. The birth must not take place at a time when mens lives are very
long, that is, at the time of the beginning of a world cycle; or at a time
when they are very short, that is, at the end of a world cycle. For in both
cases they would not understand birth, ageing and dying. Also, in those
times when they are told about impermanence, suffering and non-self,
the three characteristics of existence and the foundation teaching of all
the Buddhas, they would not be able to understand. The time for a
bodhisatta to be born on earth is when the human average life span is
about 100 years.
3. India.
4. The middle country; majjhimadesa.
5. Always in a khattiya or a brahman family.
6. She must be one who keeps her morality impeccable at all times.
7. The life span she would have after delivering him.

319

5. attaniptanapaha
Extinction of rebirth
km:

vn:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Blessed One: A

bhikkhu who takes his own life shall be reborn in the
suffering realm. On the other hand, the Elders declared:
At whatever place the Blessed One was addressing the
bhikkh|, He consistently expound with copious similes the
way to bring about the complete cutting-off of rebirth,
ageing, disease and death. Whoever overcomes rebirth,
ageing, disease and death, he gains the Blessed Ones
highest accolade.
These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
O King, the Blessed One indeed made both declarations.
There are reasons for this.
In the first instance, a man who is morally upright and
morally accomplished is synonymous to:
an antidote to the poison of defilements that are
inherent in beings;
the medicine that alleviates the disease of defilement
that is inherent in beings;
water that purifies the impurities of defilements that
are inherent in beings;
a precious jewel to beings in bestowing upon them all
kinds of wealth and happiness;
a boat to all beings inasmuch as he conveys them to
the further shore of safety across the four dangerous
torrents and whirlpools;

320

a caravan owner to the beings in that he brings them to

safety beyond the danger of rebirths;
a friendly breeze to the beings in that he puts out the
three burning flames of sorrow that consume them;
the mighty rain cloud to all beings in that he fills their
hearts with satisfaction;
a teacher to the beings in that he makes them practise
moral virtues;
a good guide to the beings in that he points out to
them the path to safety.

It was in order that one who was of such superb moral; one
whose good qualities are so many, so various, so
immeasurable; in order that so great a treasure mine of
good things, so full of benefit to all beings, might not be
done away with, that the Blessed One, out of His
compassion towards all beings, taught that: A bhikkhu
who takes his own life shall be reborn in the suffering
realm. This is the reason for which the Blessed One laid
down the injunction prohibiting suicide.

km:

Further, it was said by the Elder Kumra Kassapa when he

was describing the other world to Pysi the Rjaa:
Rjaa, just so long as samaa and brhmaa with their
virtuous living and beauty of character continue to exist however long that time may be - just so long do they
conduct themselves to the welfare and happiness of the
great masses of the people, to the protection of the world
on a long term basis to the good, and the gain and the
welfare of gods and men. [DN Sutta 23]
What is the reason for which the Blessed One encouraged
the practice of cutting off of life?

321

vn:

Birth is suffering; decay is suffering; disease is suffering;

death is suffering; sorrow is suffering; lamentation is
suffering; pain is suffering; grief is suffering; despair is
suffering; to be united with the unpleasant is suffering; to
be separated from the pleasant is suffering; the death of a
mother or a father is suffering; the death of a brother or a
sister is suffering; the death of a son or of a daughter is
suffering; the death of a wife or of a husband is suffering;
the death of a slave is suffering; the death of a kinsman is
suffering; the ruin of family is suffering; being afflicted
with disease is suffering; loss of wealth is suffering; the
decline in moral values is suffering; ruin caused by false
belief is suffering.
So is the danger produced by despots, robbers, enemies,
famine, devastating fire, flood, tidal wave, the suction of
whirlpool, crocodiles or alligators, or predatory fish.
The fear of danger of self-accusation is suffering; so is the
fear of the danger of accusation by others or of
punishment, or of evil destiny. The fear arising from
shyness in the presence of assemblies is suffering. Having
to depend upon others for ones livelihood is suffering.
So is the fear of death. So is being flogged with rattan
canes or with spiked canes. Suffering is to have ones
hands cut off, or ones feet, or ones hand and feet, or
ones ears, or ones nose, or ones ears and nose cut off.
Suffering is to be subjected to various forms of torture;
such are the manifold and various suffering which a being
caught in the never ending round of rebirth has to endure.

322

Just as the water rained down upon the Himalaya

mountains flows, in its course along the Ganges, through
and over rocks, pebbles, shingles and gravel, whirlpools,
waves, billows, hedgerows, embankments, stumps and
branches of trees which obstruct and oppose its passage.
Even so has each being caught in the round of rebirth has
to endure such manifold and various sufferings. Full of
suffering then is the continual succession of rebirth. It is
truly bliss when that continual succession of rebirth reaches
its extinction*.
(*This is to say extinction in regards to all defilements through
meditative practice, solely through the practice of vipassan, and
not through taking ones own life editor).

km:

It was in pointing out the advantage of that extinction, the

disaster involved in that continual succession of rebirth,
that the Blessed One always expounded in order to bring
about the realisation of nibbna, the extinction of that
continual succession, in order to overcome rebirth, old age,
disease and death.
Very good, Venerable! Well solved is the puzzle. Well set
forth are the reasons. That is so and I accept it as you say.
attaniptanapaho pacamo

323

6. mettbhvannisasapaha
The blessings of loving-kindness
km:

The Buddha declared: Bhikkh|, once loving-kindness has

been developed and frequently practised, taken as vehicle
and foundation, firmly established, unfolded and brought to
full perfection, one should expect the following blessings:
one sleeps happily;
one awakes happily;
one is not perturbed by bad dreams;
one becomes dear to human beings;
one becomes dear to deva;
one is protected by deva;
one becomes immuned from fire, poison or weapon;
one becomes capable of quick mental concentration;
ones face becomes radiant;
one dies peacefully without anxiety or perplexity;
if one does not attain to the stage of arahantship as
yet, one will be reborn in the Brahma world.
But on the other hand, it also happened that: While
wandering in the forest observing a herd of deer and with
thoughts of loving-kindness in him, Sma was hit by a
poisoned arrow shot by King Piyakkha, and there, on the
spot, he fell. [Jataka 540]

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed expounded the 11 blessings
through developing and practising loving-kindness as well
as the story about Sma.

324

There is a reason for that. It is that those blessings are not

inherent in the personality of the one who develops lovingkindness. Such blessings are the virtues of loving-kindness
itself and has to be fully developed. It so happened that at
the moment of lifting up a filled water pot that Sma lapsed
in his chain of thoughts on loving-kindness.
At whatever moment an individual develops and practises
loving-kindness, neither fire, poison nor any weapon can
do harm to such an individual at that particular moment.
Any man wanting to injure such an individual will not be
able to do so at that moment.
Suppose a soldier were to enter the field of battle wearing a
coat of armour that has no cracks; arrows shot at that
soldier deflect on hitting him. For as long as he is covered
in that coat of armour he is protected from any arrows.
Such virtue does not belong to the soldier but to the coat of
armour. Even so, the blessings are not inherent in the
personality but is the virtue of loving-kindness that is
actually developed at that moment.
Suppose a man were to hold in his hand a root with the
power of invisibilty; so long as that root is in his hand, he
will remain invisible. Thus, the ability to be invisible is in
the root and not the man. In the same manner the blessings
of loving-kindness is in the actual act of practice.
Or in the case of a man who enters a cave. Storm and rain
would not wet him. But that would not be by virtue
inherent in the man. It would be a feature inherent in the
cave. Exactly so is the virtue of loving-kindness that is
actually developed.

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km:
vn:

At whatever moment an individual develops and practises

loving-kindness, neither fire, poison nor any weapon can
do harm to such an individual at that particular moment.
These blessings are not inherent in the personality but is
the virtue of loving-kindness that is actually developed.
Most wonderful! The development of loving kindness has
the power of warding off all evil states of mind.
Yes, the practice of loving-kindness is productive to all
beings. This practice of loving-kindness is of great
advantage, and therefore ought to be diligently cultivated.
mettbhvannisasapaho chaho

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7. kusalkusalasamavisamapaha
Wholesome and unwholesome kamma actions
km:

vn:

km:

Venerable, are the kamma results of wholesome and

unwholesome deeds the same, or is there any difference in
the two?
O King, there is a difference between wholesome and
unwholesome deeds. Wholesome deeds have happy results,
and lead to rebirth in the heavenly world, and
unwholesome deeds have unhappy results, and lead to
rebirth in the hell realm.
But it is said that Devadatta was altogether wicked, and was
an embodiment of depravity and wickedness, and that the
bodhisatta was an embodiment of wholesomeness and
purity. Yet Devadatta, through successive existences, was
not only quite equal to the bodhisatta, but sometimes
superior to him, both in social status and in the number of
his adherents.
Thus, when Devadatta became the son of the Brahman or
royal chaplain of Brahmadatta the king, in the city of
Vrasi, then the bodhisatta was a wretched outcast who
knew by heart a magic spell. By repeating his spell, he
produced mango fruits out of season. This is one case in
which the bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta in birth, in
social status and in the number of adherents.
Again, in the following stories are cases in which the
bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta in birth, in social
status and in the number of adherents through many
existences.

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When Devadatta became a king, a mighty monarch of the

earth, living in the enjoyment of all sensual pleasures, then
the bodhisatta was a state elephant of that king, and was
possessed with all features and characteristics of a
thoroughbred. The king, being impatient with the graceful
and pleasant style of his elephant, was bent on killing him
and so said to the elephant trainer: Trainer, this elephant
has not yet been properly trained. Make him perform the
trick called sky walking.
When Devadatta became a man who lost his cattle in the
forest, and was searching for them, then the bodhisatta was
just a monkey called Mah Pathav.
Again, when Devadatta was a hunter by the name
Sonuttara, and possessed great strength; the bodhisatta was
then the king of elephants by the name of Chaddanta, killed
by the hunter.
Again, when Devadatta was a wanderer in the woods
without a home, then the bodhisatta was a partridge who
could recite incantations. In that birth too, the wanderer
killed the bird.
When Devadatta became the king of Vrasi, by the name
Kalbu, then the bodhisatta was a hermit who practised
forbearance. The king, enraged with the hermit, had his
hands and feet cut off like so many bamboo sprouts.
Again, when Devadatta became a hunter, the bodhisatta
was the king of monkeys, Nandiya by name. In that birth
too, the hunter killed the monkey, his mother and his
younger brother.

328

Again when Devadatta became a hermit in the forest, the

bodhisatta was a full grown pig called Tacchaka.
Again, when Devadatta became a naked ascetic by the
name Krambhiya, then the bodhisatta was a dragon king
called Paaraka.
Again, when Devadatta became a king in the country of
Ceti, by the name S|raparicara, who had the power of
travelling through the air, then the bodhisatta was a
Brahman named Kapila.
Again, Devadatta became a man by the name of Sma, then
the bodhisatta was a king of the deers, by the name Ruru.
Again, when Devadatta became a hunter wandering in the
woods, the bodhisatta then was a male elephant. That
hunter, on seven occasions cut off and took away the tusks
of that elephant.
Again, when Devadatta became a jackal who through the
exercise of his magic powers brought the kings of all
countries in Jambudpa under his control, then the
bodhisatta was a wise man by the name Vidhura.
And again, when Devadatta became a king by the name
Brahmadatta, the bodhisatta then was his son, the prince
called Mah Paduma. In that case, the king had his son cast
down seven times, from the precipice.
There were also some existences in which the bodhisatta
and Devadatta were on par.

329

When Devadatta became the elephant who destroyed the

young of a female partridge, the bodhisatta then was also
an elephant.
Again, when Devadatta became a deva, by the name
Unrighteous, then the bodhisatta, too was a deva, by the
name Righteous.
Again, when Devadatta became a captain of a sailing boat
with 500 men under his command, then the bodhisatta too,
was a captain with 500 men under his command.
Again, there was a time when both Devadatta and the
bodhisatta were caravan leaders, each with 500 wagons.
Again, when Devadatta became a king of deers by the
name Skha, the bodhisatta too was a king of deers, named
Nigrodha.
Again, when Devadatta became a commander-in-chief
named Skha, the bodhisatta was a king named Nigrodha.
Again, when Devadatta became a Brahman named
Khaahla, the bodhisatta was a prince named Canda.

vn:

Finally, in this life, they were in the Sakya clan, and the
bodhisatta became a Buddha. Devadatta got himself
admitted as a monk to the order. Having attained to
magical power, imposed himself as a Buddha. Is not all that
I have said true or inaccurate?
You have cited many examples and reasons; all of them are
true and factual.

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km:

vn:

If the black, filthy, dirty and mean things have the same
quality and merit as that of the white and clean things, it
follows that both wholesome and unwholesome actions are
productive of the same kamma result (vipka).
Not so. Wholesome and unwholesome actions cannot
produce equal results. Devadatta was not opposed to all
people, he was hostile only to the bodhisatta and he
experienced the results of those hostile actions which bore
fruit in each successive birth.
On the other hand, Devadatta also while he vested with
powers of a king, performed such actions as giving peace
and protection in the countries he reigned; having bridges,
courts of justice, rest houses, gift halls built; and giving
gifts to the full satisfaction of all kinds of wants of samaa
and brhmaa, of destitutes, of way-farers, of beggars and
of those with or without refuge. It was by the kamma result
of those giving-aways that Devadatta came into the
enjoyment of so much wealth and prosperity. For of whom
can it be said that without alms-giving, restraining of
senses, control of bodily and verbal actions, and keeping
the uposatha vows, he can reach prosperity?
When you say that Devadatta and the bodhisatta
accompanied one another in the passage of wandering from
birth to birth, that meeting together of theirs took place not
only at the end of a hundred, or a thousand or a hundred
thousand births, but was in fact taking place after intervals
of immeasurable periods of time. For you should regard
that simile of the blind tortoise1 told by the Buddha as an
illustration of the immeasurable period of time it takes to
get an opportunity of being reborn in the human world. It
was after such immensely long intervals that the meeting
together of the bodhisatta and Devadatta took place.

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It was not only with Devadatta that such union took place.
Elder Sriputta also was through many hundreds and
thousands of rebirths, the father, or the fathers elder
brother, or the fathers younger brother, or the brother, or
the son, or the nephew or the friend of the bodhisatta2. And
the bodhisatta similarly too, through countless rebirths was
closely associated with the Elder Sriputta.
Just as water flow along a stream meets with pure and
impure substances, with good objects as well as bad
objects. All beings who belong to the animate world and
who are being carried down the stream of rebirths, meet, as
they are carried along with it, both with pleasant
companions and with disagreeable ones.
When Devadatta as the god, had been himself unrighteous,
had led others into unrighteousness, he was burnt in hell
for 576,000,000 years. But the bodhisatta, who was god,
had been himself righteous, had led others into
righteousness, lived enjoying the sensual delights in all the
bliss of heaven for 576,000,000 years.

km:

While in the Buddha ssana, Devadatta, who had plotted

against the life of the Blessed One, and had created a
schism in the order of bhikkh|, was swallowed up by the
earth. The bodhisatta who had become enlightened, was
completely set free, entering into a realm where a mindbody complex exists no more.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
kusalkusalasamavisamapaho sattamo

332

Notes:
1. Sayutta Nikya 56.48 Chiggala Sutta
Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water,
and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the
east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A
wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would
push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come
to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think:
would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one
hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?
It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming
to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into
the yoke with a single hole.
It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state...
2. Sayutta Nikya 15.14-19
Not easy is it, bhikkh|, to find any living being that upon this long
round of rebirth has not yet, sometime or other, been your mother or
father, brother or sister, son or daughter. And how is it possible?
Inconceivable is the beginning of this sasra; not to be discovered is a
first beginning of beings who, obstructed by ignorance and ensnared by
craving, are hurrying and hastening through this round of rebirth.

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8. amardevpaha
The fidelity of Lady Amar
km:

Venerable, it has been said by the Buddha: Women, given

the condition of opportunity, secrecy and the right suitor
will succumb to unwholesome deeds, even with a cripple.
But on the other hand, it is said: Sage Mahosadhs wife,
Lady Amar, when left behind in the village while her
husband was away on a journey, remained alone in privacy,
and regarding her husband as a man would regard his
sovereign lord, she refused to do wrong even when
tempted with 1,000 pieces.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory regarding the

status of women; could it be that one of them is untenable?
Out of compassion, please explain this matter fully to
establish the true dhamma and to the disentangling of the
heretical network.
O King, the Buddha did declare both passages. But the
question is, would she have done wrong, on receipt of
those 1,000 pieces, and if she was wooed by the right man;
or would she not have done so, even if she had the
opportunity, the certainty of secrecy, and a suitable suitor?
In reality, her innate sense of integrity and righteousness;
knowledge of scandals in this world;
knowledge of sufferings in the hellish realms;
knowledge of the fruits of wrong doing;
the high esteem she held of her husband;
her veneration of the dhamma;
her dislike of ignobleness of life; and
her honour and respect of her own morality;

334

she would not allow herself to have any desire to go

against her own wholesome sense of shame of evil deeds
and the fear of their results. In fact the thought never occur
even for a split second in her mind; not even withstanding
the fact that had a right suitor similar to her own husband
were available, she would not have done any wrong deed.
Sage Mahosadh was endowed with the 28 qualities: he
was brave, full of moral shame, full of moral dread, had
many adherents, friends, was given to forbearing patience,
had morality, was truthful, pure in conduct, free from
hatred, free from conceit, free from jealousy, was full of
energy, was given to exertion, was generous, prone to
distribute his gains, was a good conversationalist, humble
in disposition, was of fine manners, free from guile, free
from deceit, endowed with a far surpassing intelligence,
was of great reputation, possessed of knowledge, prone to
seek the welfare of his dependants, was so popular that
men yearned for his presence, had great wealth, and had
many attendants to wait upon him.

km:

Sage Mahosadh was endowed with these great qualities

which Lady Amar admired and respected. Thus she would
not have any other thoughts in her mind as to desire others.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
amardevpaho ahamo

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9. arahanta-abhyanapaha
The fearlessness of the arahant
km:

vn:

km:
vn:
km:

Venerable, it was declared by the Buddha: The arahants

are free from all fear and trembling. But on the other hand
in the city of Rjagaha, when Dhana-plaka, the mighty
intoxicated elephant bear down upon the Buddha, all the
500 arahants fled and ran away; only the Elder nanda
remained. Did these arahants run away out of fear or did
they run away willing to let the Buddha be killed? Or did
they run away with the hope of observing the immense
power which the Buddha would exhibit?
These two statements seems perplexing; could it be that
one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Buddha did utter the statement and the incident at
Rjagaha was also true. But that running away was resorted
to neither out of fear nor from willingness to let the
Blessed One be destroyed. For in fact, whatever cause there
exists by which the arahant could be made to fear and
tremble, such cause has been totally destroyed in them.
Is the broad earth afraid of people digging into it or
breaking it up, or having to bear the weight of the mighty
oceans and the peaked mountain ranges?
Certainly not.
Why not?
Because whatever cause there exists to produce fear or
trembling, such cause is absent in the broad earth.

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vn:

km:
vn:
km:

vn:

Even so, whatever cause there exists by which the arahants

could be made to fear and tremble, such cause is absent in
them. Would a mountain peak be afraid of being cut up,
broken down, made to fall or burnt with fire?
Certainly not.
Why not?
Because whatever cause there exists by which a mountain
peak could be made to fear or tremble, such cause is absent
in a mountain peak.
Even so, whatever cause there exists by which the arahants
could be made to fear and tremble, such cause has been
totally eradicated from them. Even if all those who came
within the definition of beings inhabiting the hundred
thousand habitable planets of the universe were to come
together rushing towards an arahant, holding spears in their
hands in a frightening attitude, they would not be able to
bring about the slightest variation in his heart. Why?
Because there is neither condition nor cause of fear.
The following are the considerations that arose in the
minds of those arahants: Today when the very best of
men, the hero among conquerors, has entered into the
famous city of Rjagaha by measured treads, Dhanaplaka, the mighty intoxicated elephant will rush down the
street heading for the Blessed One. But to a certainty, the
Elder nanda who is his special attendant will not desert
Him. But if we should not desert the Blessed One, then
neither will the virtue of nanda be made manifest nor will
the mighty elephant actually approach the Blessed One. Let
us therefore withdraw. By so withdrawing will great
masses of people attain to emancipation from the bonds of
defilements and the virtues of Venerable nanda be made
manifest.

337

km:

It was on the realisation of the fact that those advantages

would arise from their doing so, that the arahants withdrew
to every side.
Well have you solved the puzzle. True indeed is the saying
that all fear and trembling are absent in the arahant.
However for the advantages that they foresaw, they
withdrew on every side.
arahanta-abhyanapaho navamo

338

10. buddhasabbaubhvapaha
Omniscience of the Buddha
km:

Venerable, it is said that the Buddha is omniscient. On the

other hand they say: When the Buddha dismissed the 500
bhikkh| led by the Elders Sriputta and Moggallna, the
Sakya nobles of the city of Ctuma, and Sahampati the
Brahm, were able, by means of the simile1 of small plant
and of the calf, to make the Buddha feel pleased and
delighted, see things in the right light.
Now how was that? Were those two similes unknown to
the Buddha that He should be made to feel pleased,
delighted, conciliatory and forgiving in spirit and see the
thing in the right light? But if He did not already know
them, He was not omniscient. If, however, the Buddha did
know the similes, He must have dismissed those monks
rudely and violently in order to try them; and therein is His
unkindness shown.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and
to the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One is omniscient, and by means of the
similes, He was made to feel pleased, delighted,
conciliatory and forgiving in spirit and see the thing in the
right light. For the Buddha is the lord of the dhamma. It
was with similes that had been first taught by the Buddha
Himself, that those Sakya nobles of the city of Ctuma, and
Sahampati the Brahm, made him feel satisfied, pleased
and delighted. Because the Blessed One felt so cheerful He
signified his approval by saying: Good!

339

It was just as a wife reconciles, pleases and gains over her

husband by means of things that belong to the husband
himself; and the husband signifies his approval by saying:
Good!
Or it was just as when the kings barber reconciles, pleases
and gains over the king when he dresses the kings head
with the golden comb which belongs to the king himself;
and the king signifies his approval by saying: Good!, and
bestows gifts to the satisfaction of the barber.
Or it was just as when a novice, while he serves his teacher
with the food given in alms which his teacher has himself
brought back to the monastery, reconciles, pleases and
gains him over and the teacher then signifies his approval
by saying: Good!
Even so, it was with similes that had been first taught by
the Buddha Himself, that those Sakya nobles of the city of
Ctuma, and Sahampati the Brahm, made Him feel
satisfied, pleased and delighted. Because the Blessed One
felt so cheerful He signified His approval by saying:
Good! He next delivered to them a discourse on
deliverance from all kinds of woes and sorrows.
buddhasabbaubhvapaho dasamo
sabbautaavaggo catuttho
imasmi vagge dasa pah

340

Note:
1. Ctuma Sutta (discourse at Ctuma) Majjhima Nikya 67
... just as, O Venerable One, the freshly germinated seeds, without
water, dry up and deteriorate; in the same way, here among these monks
there are new and recently ordained ones who are newly come into this
dhamma and vinaya and if they are not privileged to see the Venerable
One there might come a change and deterioration in them. Just as also, a
newly born calf, not seeing its mother, would become affected and
suffer a setback, in the same way, here among these monks, in the same
way, there are new and recently ordained ones who are newly come into
this dhamma and vinaya and if they are not privileged to see the
Venerable One there might come a change and deterioration in them ...

341

Chapter 5
santhavavagga
On companionship
1.

santhavapaha
On companionship
2. udarasayatapaha
Moderation in eating
3. buddha-appbdhapaha
Free from ailments
4. magguppdanapaha
The path to deliverance
5. buddha-avihehakapaha
Not inflicting hurt
6. chaddantajotiplrabbhapaha
King of elephants and Jotipla the young brahman
7. ghaikrapaha
The hut of Ghaikra
8. brhmaarjavdapaha
A Brahman and a king
9. gthbhigtabhojanakathpaha
Food earned by chanting
10. dhammadesanya appossukkapaha
The Buddha and the dhamma
11. cariyncariyapaha
Did the Buddha have a teacher?

342
344
347
350
352
355
357
359
363
368
371

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1. santhavapaha
On companionship
km:

O Venerable, the Blessed One declared: From

companionship there arises anxiety; from household life
there arises dust of defilement. Nibbna is that state from
which those ties of companionship and home are set free.
He also said: Build and offer pleasant monasteries that
bhikkh| with great stores of learning might find abode
therein.

vn:

These two statements are confusing, one contradicts the

other; surely one of them must be false. We are caught in a
dilemma, confusing and controversial, which we find great
difficulty to come to grips with. We thus request that you
extricate us from this predicament.
Those two statements did come from the Blessed One. The
former statement is made as to the nature of things, an
inclusive statement as to what is appropriate for a bhikkhu,
as to the life which a bhikkhu should adopt, the path he
should walk along, and the practice he should follow.
For just as a deer in the forest, wandering in the woods,
sleeps wherever he desires, having no home and no
dwelling place, so also should the bhikkhu be of the view
that: From companionship there arises anxiety; from
household life there arises dust of defilement. Nibbna is
that state from which those ties of companionship and home
are set free.

343

But O King, as to building and offering pleasant

monasteries to the bhikkh|, that was said with two benefits
in view. The gift of a monastery is esteemed and highly
spoken of by all the Buddhas. This is the first of the
benefits in the gift of a monastery.
Further, if there be a monastery, the bhikkhuni and those
who wish to pay respects to the bhikkh|, will have a clear
notion of a place set apart for that purpose; whereas if there
were no monasteries it would be difficult to do so. This is
the second of the benefits in the gift of a monastery. It was
with these two benefits in view that the Exalted One made
that statement.

km:

However, it does not follow from that that a son of the

Exalted One should feel attached to or have craving for that
monastery.
Very good, O Venerable Ngasena! That is so and I accept
it as you say.
santhavapaho pahamo

344

2. udarasayatapaha
Moderation in eating
km:

vn:

Venerable, the Buddha said: Let there be no lax of

mindfulness in the practice of alms rounds. Moderation in
eating is a way to regulate the stomach. He, too said: At
times, Udyi, I ate out of this bowl when it was full to the
brim, and sometimes even more. We are confused and
perplexed and so, we request your explanation as to which
of the two statements by the Blessed One is the truth.
O King, inasmuch as the Blessed One said that, He said that
as to the nature of things, an inclusive statement which
leaves no room for exaggeration as to the intent.
The Blessed Ones who excel in all five kinds of wisdom,
endowed with the six kinds of power and glory, conquerors
of the five hindrances, possessed of the all-embracing
knowledge and who like their predecessors are auspicious
in their coming and who are worthy of the highest
veneration, the paccekabuddhas, the Noble Ones and those
who are dedicated to seek the virtues such as morality;
made these declarations which are inclusive statements as to
the nature of things which leaves no room for exaggeration
as to the intent.
He who has no self-control as regards the stomach, O King:
will kill living beings;
will take what has not been given to him;
will go to another mans wife (commit adultery);
will speak the untruth;
will partake of intoxicating drinks;
will commit matricide and patricide;
will kill an arahant;

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will create a schism in the sagha, and

will with malicious intent cause the shedding of
blood of a Buddha.

Was it not, when without restraint as to his stomach, that

Devadatta by creating a schism in the sagha, heaped up
for himself unwholesome kamma that would endure for a
world period?
It was in consideration of this, and many other things of the
same kind that the Blessed One exhorted: Let there be no
lax of mindfulness in the practice of alms rounds.
Moderation in eating is a way to regulate the stomach.
He who has self control as regards the stomach
comprehends clearly the Four Noble Truths:
realises the four paths leading to the four fruition;
attains
the
four
analytical
knowledges
(paisambhid1);
realises the eight successive states of attainment
induced by meditative absorptions (sampatti2);
attains the six higher spiritual powers (abhi3); and
fulfils all that goes to complete the training of a
bhikkhu.
But when the Blessed One said: Udyi, at times I ate out of
this bowl when it was full to the brim and sometimes even
more, that was said by Him who had completed His task,
who had finished all that He had to do, who had fulfilled
the holy life, who had rid Himself of all hindrances, who is
omniscient and who by Himself discovered truths unheard
of before; further He was making those statements in
reference only to Himself.

346

km:

Just as it is desirable to administer treatment with proper

dieting to a patient who has a chronic and sustained attack
of vomiting, the man in whom there exists defilement and
who is ignorant of the Four Noble Truths should also adopt
the practice of restraint in the matter of eating. But just as
there is no necessity of wiping, rubbing or polishing a
precious ruby of great brilliancy and purity; there is also no
restraint as to what actions He should perform who has
reached the summit of that which lies within the scope of
the Buddha.
Excellent, Venerable; I accept your reasoning.
udarasayatapaho dutiyo

Notes:
1: paisambhid. Analytical knowledge or discrimination is of 4 kinds:
analytical knowledge of the true meaning (attha-paisambhid);
analytical knowledge of the law (dhamma-paisambhid);
analytical knowledge of language (nirutti-paisambhid);
analytical knowledge of ready wit (paibhna-paisambhid).
2: sampatti: a name given for the 8 absorptions of the fine material and
immaterial spheres to which is occasionally added as 9th, the attainment
of extinction (nirodhasampatti).
3: abhi: the 6 higher powers or supramundane knowledge; consists of
5 mundane (lokiya) powers attainable through the utmost perfection in
mental concentration (samdhi) and one supramundane (lokuttara) power
attainable through insight (vipassan) that is extinction of all cankers
(savakkhaya); in other words realisation of arahantship.
They are:
[1] magical powers (iddhi-vidha), [2] divine eye (dibba-cakkhu)
[3] penetration of the minds of others (ceto-pariyaa)
[4] remembrance of former existence (pubbe nivasnussati);
[5] divine ear (dibba-sota), [6] extinction of all cankers (savakkhaya).

347

3. buddha-appbdhapaha
Free from ailments
km:

Venerable, it was said by the Blessed One: Bhikkh|, I am

one who has put aside evil; one who trains Himself
according to the Noble Ones request; pure handed, the
bearer of His last body; and the supreme healer and
physician.
The Blessed One, too said: Bhikkh|, among my disciples,
Bkula is chief in having few illnesses.
It is well known that diseases arose several times in the
body of the Buddha. So if the Buddha was supreme, then
the second statement must be wrong.

vn:

But if Bkula was really pre-eminent in the matter of

freedom from ailments among the disciples then the first
statement must be wrong. It would be good if you could
resolve this dilemma.
Both the quotations you have made, O King, are correct.
But what the Blessed One said about Bkula was said of
those disciples who had learnt by heart the dhamma, studied
them, and handed down by tradition. Each one had a special
aspect of the dhamma he excels in through the studies he
specialises in.
For there were certain of the disciples of the Blessed One,
who were meditators on foot, spending a whole day and
night in walking up and down.

348

But the Blessed One was in the habit of spending the day
and night in meditation, not only walking up and down but
also sitting and lying down. So such disciples who were
meditators on foot surpassed Him in that particular aspect.
And there were certain of the disciples of the Blessed One
who were eaters at one sitting, who would not, even to
save their lives, take more than one meal a day. But the
Blessed One was in the habit of taking a second, or even a
third meal. So such of the disciples who were eaters at one
sitting surpassed Him in that particular aspect, too.
And in a similar way a number of different things have
been told about each one or the other of the disciples. But
the Blessed One surpassed them all in respect of
uprightness, power of meditation, wisdom, of emancipation,
and of that insight which arises out of the knowledge of
emancipation, and in all that which lies only within the
scope of a Buddha.
It was with reference to that, that he said: A Brahman am I,
devoted to self-sacrifice, pure-handed at every time; this
body that I bear with me is the last, I am the supreme healer
and physician.
Now one man may be of good birth, and another may be
wealthy, and another full of wisdom, and another well
educated, and another brave, and another adroit; but a king,
surpasses and is above all these. He is reckoned as supreme.
Just in that way is the Blessed One the highest, the most
worthy of respect, the best of all beings. And in so far as
the venerable Bkula was healthy in body, that was by
reason of an aspiration (he had formed in a previous birth).

349

Hence, the saying of the Blessed One: Bhikkh|, among My

disciples, Bkula is chief in having few illnesses.
But the Blessed One, whether He be afflicted or not with
illness; whether He had taken upon Himself the means of
purification there is no being equal to Him.

km:

For this has been said by the Blessed One: Whatever

beings there may be, those without feet, bipeds, quadrupeds,
or with multi legs, those with a body or with a mind, those
with perception or without perception, those with neitherperception-nor-non-perception, the Blessed One, who is
worthy of the highest veneration, is acknowledged to be the
most exalted.
Very good, Venerable. That is so and it as you have said.
buddha-appbdhapaho tatiyo

350

4. magguppdanapaha
The path to deliverance
km:

vn:

Venerable Ngasena, it has been declared by the Blessed

One: The Tathgata is a discoverer of a way that was
unknown. On the other hand He said: Now I comprehend
the ancient way, the ancient path, along which the previous
Buddhas walked.
These statements are confusing, one contradicts the other;
surely one of them must be false. We are caught in a
dilemma, confusing and controversial, which we find great
difficulty to come to grips with. We thus request that you
extricate us from this predicament.
O King, the Blessed One did indeed declare as you have
quoted. Both are well spoken and sincere expressions.
When previous Buddhas had passed into parinibbna, then,
there being no teacher left, the Way they pointed out, too
disappeared.
It was the Way, though then gone to ruin, estranged,
forgotten, faded-out, enshrouded and become impassable,
that the Buddha, during meditation, clearly comprehended
with insight knowledge (vipassana) and knew it was the
Way that previous Buddhas had trod.
It was therefore that Way which He said: Now I
comprehend the ancient way, the ancient path along which
the previous Buddhas walked. It is that He said: The
Tathgata is the discoverer of a way that was unknown.

351

vn:

km:
vn:

Suppose, that on the disappearance of a universal king, the

gem of sovereignty which had laid concealed in a cleft of a
mountain peak, was discovered by another universal king
practising the right conduct. Would you then say that a new
gem had appeared to the subsequent universal king?
No, Venerable, it was the original gem but discovered again
by a new universal king.
It is exactly so as:
when a mother brings forth from her womb, a child
that is already there, and the saying is that from the
mother has given birth to the child;
in the case when a man finds a thing that has been lost;
and the people saying; he has brought this property
back into existence;
when a man clears away the jungle and thus brought a
piece of land into existence and the people saying that
is his land, but that is not made by him. In as far as the
land is concerned he is merely the land owner.
Exactly so it is that the Blessed One, having clearly
comprehended with insight knowledge, brought back to life
and made passable again the most excellent eightfold way
in all its pristine condition as when it was walked along by
the previous Buddhas; though that way, when there was no
teacher anymore, had gone to ruin, estranged, forgotten,
faded out, enshrouded and become impassable.

km:

Therefore it is that He said: The Tathgata, who is worthy

of the highest veneration and who, unaided and all by
Himself, is the discoverer of a way that had become
unknown.
Very good, Venerable. That is so and I accept it as you say.
magguppdanapaha catuttho

352

5. buddha-avihehakapaha
Not inflicting hurt
km:

Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: Already in

former birth into the human realm had I acquired the habit
of not inflicting hurt on living beings.
He has also declared: When I was the hermit, Lomasa
Kassapa, I had more than a hundred living beings slain and
offered the great sacrifice called vjapeyya.

vn:

km:

These two statements are confusing, one contradicts the

other; surely one of them must be false. They are confusing
and enigmatic, which we find great difficulty to come to
grips with; we thus request that you extricate us from this
predicament.
The Blessed One indeed declared as stated. However, the
second statement was made when he was out of his mind
through lust and not when he was conscious of what he was
doing when the sacrifice was offered.
There are eight types of men who kill living beings:
the lustful man kills caused by arising lust;
the hateful man kills caused by arising hatred;
the deluded man kills caused by arising delusion;
the conceited man kills caused by arising conceit;
the avaricious man kills caused by arising avarice;
the needy man kills for the sake of his livelihood;
the foolish man kills for the sake of his merriment;
the king kills in the way of punishment.
Venerable, these are the eight types of men who kill living
beings.

353

vn:

Was not the bodhisatta, when he was offering the sacrifice,

acting in accordance with one of the dispositions when he
did so?
No, O King, it was not an act natural to him when the
bodhisatta offered the sacrifice. If the bodhisatta had been
led by natural inclination to offer the sacrifice he would not
have declared: O minister Seyha1, the world with all its
ocean and the seas, bays, gulfs and inlets is stuffed with
shame; as it is thus, I do not desire to have lordship over
them.
But though the bodhisatta was in the habit of saying thus,
yet at the very sight of Candavat the princess, he went out
of his mind and now being possessed of a mind which was
not normal with him, had become dispersed and infatuated,
his faculty of perception and mental horizon grew murky
and agitated. It was when thus out of his mind, confused
and agitated that he offered the great sacrifice; mighty was
the outpour of blood from the necks of the slaughtered
beasts.
Just as a madman, when out of his senses, will step into a
fiery furnace or take hold of an infuriated venomous snake
or go up to a rogue elephant or rush into the waters of a
great ocean, the further shore of which he cannot reach or
trample through pits filled with spikes and dirty cesspools
or trample through thorny brakes or hurl himself down
precipices or feed himself on human faeces or go naked
through the streets and do many other improper things.
Even so, at the very sight of the Princess Candavat, the
bodhisatta went out of his mind and offered the sacrifice.

354

km:

vn:

km:

Now an act of evil done in this present world by one out of

his mind, even though of a grievous nature would not bear
equal demeritoriousness of fruit that it would if done by
one with sane and unwholesome intentions. Suppose that a
man being not in his normal mind were to commit an
offence, what punishment would you mete out to him?
How can it be possible to mete out punishment to a man not
of normal mind? He is not acting in his normal capacity, as
such, he needs care and understanding.
So then there is no judgement in relation to the offence
committed by a man not in his normal state. Even so, is it
with respect to Lomasa Kassapa, who at the mere sight of
the Princess Candavat, went out of his mind and made the
great sacrifice called vjapeyya. But when he returned to
his natural state and recovered his presence of mind, then
did he renounce the world, and having attained to the five
higher spiritual powers was in consequence thereof, reborn
in the Brahma world.
Very good Venerable, that is so and I accept it as you say.
buddha-avihehakapaho pacamo

Note:
1. Seyha was the counsellor the king sent to tempt the seer to come and
make the great sacrificial offering.

355

6. chaddantajotiplrabbhapaha
King of elephants and Jotipla the young brahman
km:

Venerable, the Blessed One declared that once, being

reborn as the king of elephants with tusks of six multicolours, the bodhisatta then, entertained thoughts of killing
when a hunter had shot and hurt him with a bow and arrow.
In his pain and rage, he had held and dragged the hunter
and threw him down heavily with his trunk and was about
to kill the hunter when he saw the saffron coloured robes
the hunter had on.
Even though he was in great pain he recognised the saffron
coloured robes as the emblem of the Buddhas and
paccekabuddhas and though the hunter rightly deserved to
be killed, yet the elephant king desisted.
But on the other hand the Blessed One, when he was
Jotipla, a young brahman, reviled and abused Kassapa, the
then Buddha with vile and bitter words, calling him a
shaveling and a good for nothing bhikkhu.

vn:

These two statements are confusing, one contradicts the

other; surely one of them must be false. They are confusing
and enigmatic, which we find great difficulty to come to
grips with; we thus request that you extricate us from this
predicament.
The Blessed One had indeed declared as you mentioned;
however the statement where he abused Kassapa Buddha
was due to his birth and family background. Jotipla came
from a family of non-believers; men devoid of faith.

356

His mother and father, siblings, slaves and retainers have

only the brahman for refuge and to render veneration. They
hold that brahmans only were the highest and most
honourable among men, and as such they revile and despise
all samaa and brhmaa. Thus, it was through his familys
influence that Jotipla, when invited by Ghatikra the potter
to visit the Blessed One, replied: What is the good of
visiting that shaveling, good for nothing monk?
Just so, even nectar when mixed with poison will taste
bitter, or just as cool water in contact with fire will become
warm, so was it that Jotipla, having been born and brought
up in the family of non-believers, men devoid of faith, thus
replied and revile the Blessed One.
Just as a brightly and furiously burning mass of fire, even
at the height of its glory, it should come into contact with
water, would cool down, with its splendour and glory
becoming extinct and turn to cinders, black as rotten fruits.
Even so, Jotipla, full as he was of merit and faith, mighty
as was the glory of his knowledge, yet when born into a
family of non-believers, he became as it were, blind, and
thus reviled and abused the Kassapa Buddha.

km:

When he had visited the Buddha and had come to know the
virtues of a Buddha he became one like an obedient servant.
Later, he was admitted to the order and having gained the
fivefold higher spiritual powers and the sixfold attainments,
was reborn in the Brahma heaven.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
chaddantajotiplrabbhapaho chaho

357

7. ghaikrapaha
The hut of Ghaikra
km:

Venerable, the Buddha declared: The dwelling place of

Ghaikra the potter, stood open to the sky without a roof
for the three months during the rain season and was not
drenched with rain.
He also declared: The ku of Kassapa Buddha was
drenched with rain. How was it that the hut of Kassapa
Buddha, the roots of whose merit were so widely spread
was drenched with rain? One would think that a Buddha
should have the power to prevent that.

vn:

These two statements are confusing and controversial,

which we find great difficulty to come to grips with. We
thus request that you extricate us from this predicament.
The Blessed One did make those two statements. Ghaikra
was a man of morality, good-natured, deeply rooted in
merit, a man who supported his mother and father both of
who were aged and blind. Once, when he was absent, the
people, without his permission took away the thatch roof
from his dwelling place to roof the hut of Kassapa Buddha.
Unmoved and unshaken at the thatch of his roof-top being
thus removed but rather he was filled with great joy, the
like of which cannot be found. An immeasurable bliss
sprang up in him; he thought: Fortunate am I that have
won the full confidence of the Buddha who is supreme in
this world. With this great joy of his roof taken to thatch
the hut of Kassapa Buddha, Ghaikra the potter reaped the
fruit thereof even to this present life.

358

This was the reason his house was not drenched with rain
even though the roof was open to the sky.
Just as Sineru, king of the mountains, neither moves nor is
it shaken by the onslaught of more than a hundred thousand
gusts of wind; just as the mighty ocean, the home of the
great waters, is not filled neither is disturbed at all by the
inflow of million upon million gallons of water from the
great Ganges river; even so, is the Blessed One undisturbed
by His hut transformed into a mess by rain.
As to the question why the Kassapa Buddha did not attempt
to prevent the hut from being drenched, it must be noted
that Buddhas avoid applying their powers for their personal
end; as it might be conceived that they are seeking ways for
their own livelihood and thus deprive gods and men from
performing deeds that will gain them merits. Thus, the
Buddhas avoided performing deeds for themselves; because
they are mindful that benefits will ensue for those
performing the necessary deeds, as in offering the four
requisites of robes, alms-food, dwelling and medicine.

km:

If, Sakka, the king of gods had kept away the rain from the
hut of Kassapa Buddha, that action would have been faulty,
wrong and worthy of censure. The Blessed Ones do not ask
for the four requisites. It is because they ask for nothing
that blame or censure is not attached to them.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
ghaikrapaho sattamo

359

8. brahmaarjavdapapa
A Brahman and a king
km:

vn:

km:
vn:

Venerable, it was declared by the Blessed One: Bhikkh|, I

am a Brahman; one who is associated with beggars. He
also declared: A king am I, Brahman Sela.
These two statements are profound and subtle, authoritative
and unchangeable. If the Buddha had actually declared these
two statements, one must be false. We are thus caught in a
dilemma, confusing and controversial, which we find great
difficulty to come to grips with. We thus request that you
extricate us from this predicament.
The Blessed One had indeed made both declarations. By
whatever reason should the Blessed One be deemed to be
both Brahman and also king, by such reason should He
have been both Brahman and also king.
What can be that reason?
Because in the Blessed One, all defilements have been put
away, abandoned, dispelled, rooted out, destroyed, come to
an end, gone out, extinguished, and ceased, therefore is it
that the Blessed One is a Brahman1.
A Brahman is one:
who has passed beyond doubts, misgivings and
perplexity;
who dwells in the sublime living of gods;
who performs Vedic incantations and teaches others
to do so; he solicits alms, controls his senses,
restraints his conduct, is steadfast in behaviour and
carries on the ancient traditions;
who practises the bliss of meditative absorption; and
who knows his own multi stages of previous rebirths.

360

The Blessed One is all of these and more, therefore He is a

Brahman.
The designation Brahman was not applied to the Blessed
Ones by their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, or by their
friends, relations, samaa and brhmaa; no, not by gods
either. It is by reason of their emancipation that the Blessed
Ones are thus designated.

km:
vn:

From the moment under the bodhi tree, they had

overthrown the armies of Mra, expelled all evil and
unwholesome qualities of the past and present and had
attained to the supreme knowledge of the omniscient ones,
enlightened; that this true designation, Brahman are they
named. That is the reason why the Blessed One is a
Brahman.
What is the reason why the Buddha is called a king?
A king means a person who rules and governs the people,
and the Blessed One rules with his dhamma over 10,000
world systems and governs the devas, Mras and brahm of
the divine world and the samaa, kings and commoners of
the human world.
A king is one who surpassing all other people, making his
relatives rejoice and all his enemies subservient; the Blessed
One, too subdues the army of Mra and those given over to
false teaching. He fills the hearts of those among gods and
men, devoted to sound teaching, with joy, He delivers them
from sorrow. A king is one who is held worthy of homage
by the people who approach him, who come into his
presence. The Blessed One is held worthy of homage by the
great numbers of beings whether gods or men, who
approach Him, who come into His presence.

361

A king is one who appropriately rewards those who please

Him. The Blessed One, too teaches those who follow the
correct view the way to freedom from sorrow; He offers
them the fruition of arahattaphala, the incomparable realm
of deliverance from all suffering and sorrows.
A king is one who reprimands, disciplines and punishes
those who transgress the royal commands. The Blessed
One, too, reprimands, disciplines and shuts out those who
are incapable of possessing the dhamma.
A king is one who in his turn proclaiming laws and
regulations according to the instructions laid down in
succession by the righteous kings of ancient times, and thus
carrying on his rule in righteousness, becomes beloved and
dear to the people, desired in the world, and by the force of
his righteousness establishes his dynasty long in the land.
The Blessed One proclaiming in His turn the vinaya
according to the instructions laid down in succession by the
Buddhas of ancient times, and thus in righteousness being
teacher of the world, He too, is beloved and dear to both
gods and men, desired by them, and by the force of
rationality of His Teaching, makes His ssana last long in
the land.

km:

Thus, so many are the reasons why the Blessed One should
be both a Brahman and also a king, and a very learned
bhikkhu could scarcely in a world period enumerate them
all. Why then should I expand further? Accept what I have
said only.
Very good, Venerable! That is so and I accept it as you say.
brahmaarjavdapapo ahamo

362

Note:
1. Dgha Nikya, Slakkhandha - Brahmajla Sutta
Whereas some recluses (samaa) and Brahmans (brhmaa) while
living on food provided by the philanthropic and generous ... cause
injury ... use hoarded things ... visit shows ... etc., the monk Gotama
refrains from such things ...

363

9. gthbhigtabhojanakathpaha
Food earned by chanting
km:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Buddha: Brahman, I

shall not partake of alms-food obtained by the chanting of
verse (gtha). The partaking of such food is not the way of
the Buddhas who are conscious of the purity of obtaining
alms-food. Buddhas throughout all aeons of time refused
the partaking of alms-food obtained by chanting of verse.
Purity of livelihood is the right livelihood of the Buddhas.
But on the other hand, the Buddha, when teaching the
dhamma, habitually begins with the preliminary discourse
on alms-giving (dna-kath) followed by the talk on
morality (sla-kath). So that when gods and men hear the
discourse of the Buddha, they prepared and offered alms
and the disciples partook of the alms thus obtained.

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and to
the disentangling of the heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed declare that He shall not
partake of alms-food obtained by the chanting of verse. The
Blessed One was also in the habit of teaching the dhamma
or beginning with a talk on alms-giving. But this is the
custom of all the Buddhas; first by discourse on alms-giving
to make the minds of hearers take delight therein and then
afterwards conform to the laws of morality.
This is as when men give first of all to young children
things to play with, and afterwards appoint to each his
separate task.

364

Or it is as when a physician first makes his patients drink

oil for four or five days in order to strengthen them and to
soften their bodies; and then administers a purge. In such a
manner, the Blessed One habitually teaches the dhamma
first by a discourse on alms-giving to make the minds of
hearers take delight therein and then afterwards conform to
the laws of morality.

km:
vn:

The minds of donors who make offers of alms are rendered

soft, tender and well-conditioned. Thereby do they cross
over to nibbna by the aid of their bridge and boat of almsgiving. By teaching the dhamma on alms-giving which
paves the way for practical mind-development, does not by
any means commit the offence of intimation.
When you say intimation, what are they?
There are two kinds of intimation: bodily intimation and
verbal intimation. There is a wrong bodily intimation and
one that is not; and there is a wrong verbal intimation and
one that is not.
What is wrong bodily intimation? A bhikkhu:
while approaching donors for alms, stands on a spot
where he should not stand; he thus commits a breach of
the rules prohibiting standing at certain places;
while approaching donors for alms, stands on a spot
where he should not stand and stretched out his neck like
a peacock on the gaze, hoping that donors will notice
him. By this action, donors see him;
makes a sign with his jaw, or with his eye-brow, or with
his fingers.
These are wrong bodily intimation. The ariya do not allow
and will not use any item obtained by wrong bodily
intimation, and the individual who acts thus is despised,
looked down upon, not respected, and blamed as a person
of wrong livelihood according to the opinion of the ariya.

365

What is correct bodily intimation? A bhikkhu:

while approaching donors for alms, is mindful,
tranquil, clearly conscious and in all matters whether
important or otherwise, behaves according to the
exhortation of the Blessed One;
would go further on or stand when there are people
desiring to offer of alms. Where they are not, he would
pass on.
That is a correct bodily intimation. The ariya allow and will
partake of alms obtained by correct bodily intimation, and
the individual who acts thus is according to the opinion of
the ariya, praiseworthy, thought highly of, esteemed, and
regarded as a person of austere living and pure livelihood.
For thus has it been said by the Blessed One: The ariya and
the wise do not beg; the wise should know it as a fact. The
ariya stand still and with a purpose; this standing for alms is
but a way the ariya allows the laity to gain wholesome
merits when the ariya accepts their alms.
What is wrong verbal intimation? A bhikkhu:
verbally asks for a large number of robes, alms-food,
dwelling place and medicine;
speaks to others indicating that he is in want of such
and such an item; as a result of which he obtains that
item;
speaks to others indicating certain alms be offered to
him; those on hearing that request thus offer those
alms.
These are wrong verbal intimation. The ariya do not allow
and will not use an item obtained by wrong verbal
intimation, and the individual who thus acts is despised,
looked down upon, not respected, and blamed as a person
of wrong livelihood according to the opinion of the ariya.

366

For when Venerable Sriputta, being ill at night, and being

questioned by Venerable Mahmoggallna, as to what
medicine had done him good in a former illness, replied
saying: Rice porridge boiled in milk had once done me
good. By this verbal intimation, the medicine of rice
porridge boiled in milk was brought about. Thereupon,
Venerable Sriputta said to himself: This medicine has
been brought about through my verbal intimation. Let not
my adherence to the rules regarding right livelihood be
broken.
Thus, rejecting the medicine and used it not for fear of
committing a breach of those rules. That too, is a verbal
intimation which is wrong. The noble ones will not use a
thing brought about by the verbal intimation which is
wrong, and the individual who thus acts is despised, looked
down upon, not respected, and blamed as a person of wrong
livelihood according to the opinion of the noble ones.
What is right verbal intimation? A bhikkhu, when there is
necessity for it, should ask for medicine from families
either related to him, or which had invited him to do so.
That is right verbal intimation. The ariya allows and will
partake of alms obtained by correct verbal intimation and
the individual who thus acts is according to the opinion of
the ariya, praiseworthy, thought highly of, esteemed, and
regarded as a person of austere living and pure livelihood.
It has the approval of all the Buddhas who are worthy of
the highest veneration and who, unaided and each by
himself, comprehends rightly.
The Blessed One refused to accept the alms-food presented
by Ksi-bhradvja, the Brahman.

367

km:

vn:

km:

It was because the alms-food was presented for the sake of

testing the Blessed One with questions for the sake of
ridiculing Him and forcing Him to acknowledge that His
dhamma was wrong. After He had discoursed and
convinced the Brahman, the Blessed One refused alms that
was finally offered.
Was it always, whenever the Buddha was eating, that the
gods infused the divine ambrosial nourishment into the
contents of His bowl, or was it only into those two meals,
one comprising the tender boars flesh, and the other
comprising the rice porridge boiled in milk that they
infused it?
O King, whenever He was eating, and into each morsel of
food as He picked up, the gods infused the divine ambrosial
nourishment. It was just as the royal cook stays near, takes
the curry and pours it over each morsel of food the king
was about to eat. Even so, whenever the Blessed One was
eating, and into each morsel of food as He picked up, the
gods infused the divine ambrosial nourishment. Also at the
town of Veranj, the gods sprinkled over each morsel with
the divine ambrosial nourishment, and thus the body of the
Blessed One became developed.
Great indeed Venerable, was the good fortune that those
gods were there, ever and always so zealous in their care
for the body of the Buddha! Very good, Venerable! That is
so, and I accept it as you say.
gthbhigtabhojanakathpaho navamo

368

10. dhammadesanya appossukkapaha

The Buddha and the dhamma
km:

Venerable, it has been taught that for 4 asa~khyeyya and

100,000 world cycles, the Buddha fulfilled successfully the
conditions required for bringing His omniscient wisdom to
perfection for the eradication of suffering. But on the other
hand it has been said: Just after He had attained to
Buddhahood, He was inclined to indolence, and not teach
the dhamma.
Just as if an archer, or an archers pupil who had practised
archery for many days with the object of going into battle,
draws back when the day of the great battle arrives. Just so
did the Buddha, who through countless ages had gradually
nurtured and bring to perfection His omniscience, turn back
from teaching the dhamma, on the day when that
omniscience had finally been perfected.
Was it from fear or was it from the lack of knowledge that
the Buddha drew back, or was it from weakness, or was it
because He had not, after all, attained to omniscience that
He drew back? What would be the reason?

vn:

These two statements appear contradictory; could it be that

one of them is untenable? Out of compassion, please
explain this matter fully to establish the true dhamma and to
the disentangling of the heretical network.
O King, what you have quoted has its reason. The Blessed
One was not inclined to teach the dhamma. This momentary
disinclination was that He saw how difficult it was for the
ordinary people to understand the true dhamma.

369

Given the fact that beings are mostly devoted to sensual

desires and the perception that an entity or a self lives
within that has control over the senses. Thus, He made no
move to teach the dhamma.
Just as an able physician, when called to a patient suffering
from a complication of diseases, might reflect: By what
effort, and by what drug can this mans sickness be
allayed?
Just as a king, when he calls to mind the many people who
gain their livelihood in dependence on him: the gatewatchmen, the bodyguard, the retinue of courtiers, wageearners from market towns, the soldiers, the ministers and
the nobles, might think: How now, in what way, shall I be
able to bestow benefits on them all?
Even so, when the Buddha called to mind how difficult it
was for the ordinary people to understand the true dhamma,
given the fact that beings are mostly devoted to sensual
desires and the perception that an entity or a self lives
within that has control over the senses. Thus, He made no
move to teach the dhamma.
Subsequently, it was on the request of the Brahm
Sahampati that the Blessed One decided to teach the
dhamma. This tradition of teaching the sublime dhamma
only on the request of the Brahm is a characteristic in all
the Buddhas. This was because the wandering ascetics, the
samaa and the brhmaa, were worshippers of Brahm,
and had only Brahm on whom to place their reliance.

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Therefore, at the thought: Even the Brahm Sahampati, so

high and mighty a one has to venerate the Blessed One and
beg for favours of Him; on this consideration, the Blessed
One consented to teach the dhamma when requested to do
so by Brahm Sahampati.

km:

Just as what a king or a minister of state pays homage to,

that will the rest of mankind pay homage to. Even so, when
the Brahm had paid homage to the Buddha, so would the
rest of the whole world of gods and men. For people revere
only what should be revered. The Brahm therefore made
the request to the Buddha to teach the dhamma. For this
reason also, all the Buddhas proclaimed the dhamma only
when the Brahm made the request for doing so.
Very good, Venerable! The puzzle has been well
unravelled, most able has been your exposition. That is so
and I accept it as you say.
dhammadesanya appossukkapaho dasamo

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11. cariyncariyapaha
Did the Buddha have a teacher?
km:

vn:

Venerable, it has been declared by the Blessed One: I have

no teacher, and the man equal to Me does not exist. No
rival to Me can be found in the whole world of gods and
men. But on the other hand He said: Thus then, ra
Klma, when he was my teacher and I was his pupil,
placed me on equality with himself, and honoured me with
exceedingly great honour. These two statements appear
contradictory; could it be that one of them is untenable?
Out of compassion, please explain this matter fully to
establish the true dhamma and to the disentangling of the
heretical network.
The Blessed One had indeed dclared both statements. But
when he spoke of ra Klma as His teacher, it was with
reference to the fact of his having been His teacher while
He was still an ignorant bodhisatta, and before He clearly
comprehended the true dhamma.
While He was still a bodhisatta, there were 5 teachers under
whose tutelage He spent His days. There were eight
Brahmans who, just after his birth reported to His father,
the king of His coming fortunes and glory and marked Him
out as one to be carefully guarded. Those eight were Rma,
Dhaja, Lakkhaa, Mant, Yaa, Suyma, Subhoja and
Sudatta. These were His first teachers.
Then there was the Brahman Sabbamitta of distinguished
decent, who was of high lineage in the land of Udicca, a
philologist and grammarian well read in the six Veda~gas,
whom the bodhisattas father sent for and handed over the
young prince to his charge, to be taught. This was His
second teacher.

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Again, the god who aroused the sense of urgency of escape

in the bodhisattas heart, at the sound of whose speech, the
bodhisatta moved and anxious, that very moment renounced
the world and became a recluse. This was His third teacher.
Again, ra Klma taught the method of approach to
meditative absorption up to the sphere of Nothingness
(kicayatana) and abiding therein. This was His fourth
teacher. Udaka the son of Rma taught the method of
meditative absorption up to the sphere of Neitherperception nor Non-perception (nevasansayatana)
and abiding therein. This was His fifth teacher.

km:

These are the five who were His teachers while He was still
a bodhisatta ignorant of the dhamma. But in this dhamma
that is transcendental, in the penetrating into the wisdom of
the omniscient ones; in that there is no one who is above
the Blessed One to teach Him. Being a Buddha who unaided
and all by Himself attained enlightenment. He is without a
teacher, and that is why it was said by the Buddha: I have
no teacher, and the man equal to me does not exist. No rival
to me can be found in the whole world of gods and men.
Very good Venerable! That is so, and I accept it as you say.
cariyncariyapaho ekdasamo
santhavavaggo pacamo
imasmi vagge ekdasa pah
mehakapaho nihito

End of Volume I