Fast Vs Slow Surf Rods

Fast vs Slow Surf Rods -- what's the point?
SOURCE : http://www.stripersonline.com/t/937530/fast-vs-slow-surf-rods-whats-the-point
post #1 of 105
4/28/14
Thread Starter
Alexey
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It seems like most surfcasters use fast action rods. Most expensive rods are also usually relatively
fast. Such rods seem generally more sensitive, cast further and are easier to control a fish with.
Right? What's then the point of slow action rods? Why would you pick one?
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post #2 of 105
4/28/14
victorjg
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Yeah! Good point! I have the same question, somebody can explain it?
Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk
>>((((>
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post #3 of 105
4/28/14
fish643
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When fishing 6+ bait, if you are old or not a big hitter a slower action rod is easier to load and can
be cast further. You let the rod do the work.
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post #4 of 105
4/28/14
jmin
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Im not sure that I would totally agree with you when you say "most surfcasters use fast rods".
There are plenty of moderate or "slow" action rods on the market that a lot of people use. One
situation you may want a slower rod would be when throwing eels... at least thats what I would
want.
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post #5 of 105
4/28/14
johnnycakes
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Fast action rods are capable of transmitting energy more efficiently when in the right hands and
situation. Faster action rods also need more energy to get the maximum distance.
Guys that throw metal lips and eels would likely benefit from a more moderate action rod. Also
those who fish on jetties, perch on rocks, wade deep ( situations that restrict your ability to drive
power from your legs or step forward) would also benefit from a more moderate action rod
because they cast well with minimal effort ( for most people).
R H Customs and CTS Pro Staff
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post #6 of 105
4/28/14
BigFischer
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Lamiglas's GSB series are probably the most commonly used rods out there and they are
moderate action .
Fast action rods rods definitely have their place but IMO moderate action rods are more versatile
and can throw a better range of weights.
They are also better at lobbing metal lips and other plugs that are prone to tumbling
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post #7 of 105
4/28/14
redhawk19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnycakes
Fast action rods are capable of transmitting energy more efficiently when in the right hands and
situation. Faster action rods also need more energy to get the maximum distance.
Guys that throw metal lips and eels would likely benefit from a more moderate action rod. Also
those who fish on jetties,perch on rocks, wade deep ( situations that restrict your ability to drive
power from your legs or step forward) would also benefit from a more moderate action rod
because they cast well with minimal effort ( for most people).
WOW Mr Cakes, you said that perfectly ......LOL Seriously, what Johnny said is true as is what Billy
also stated... Go to a demo and try them for yourself to see what fits you best...
If you think a fast action rod controls fish better try that one out on a day when you have 15 pound
blues at the end of your cast for a few hrs. I have seen fast action rods make grown men cry ...lol
by the end of a long session. Remember, you are only fighting that fish with the top 25% of the
rod...
Faster action does not translate expensive.......
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post #8 of 105
4/28/14
Slack Tidings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk19

WOW Mr Cakes, you said that perfectly ......LOL
Indeed, it seems more often the more expensive models (CTS, Century) are the more moderate
ones
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post #9 of 105
4/28/14
Drew C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish643
When fishing 6+ bait, if you are old or not a big hitter a slower action rod is easier to load and can
be cast further. You let the rod do the work.
There's really no truth to that. The rod doesn't do any work on its own. Its an elastic lever. The rod
is loaded when the caster applies force to it, the more force applied, the greater the load and the
energy stored in the rod and the greater the release of that energy at the completion of the cast. In
order to load a rod the casting stroke needs to constantly accelerate and then come to a complete
and abrupt stop. If the rod isn't accelerating it won't be loaded. If the rod doesn't come to a
complete stop (it drifts) energy is wasted. 'Fast' action rods require more energy to load them
properly, you'll either have to apply more power to the cast or more speed (or both). Slower action
rods will load with less energy but will obviously release less energy at the completion of the cast,
resulting in decreased performance (that might not be the best way to put it).
There are uses for both. Eels, bait, etc; a fast action rod might not be the best choice - the force
needed to load the rod is probably greater than the durability of the eel's head... Plugs that tend to
tumble in flight might also benefit from a slower action rod (or slowing down while using a fast
rod). If you're making hero casts with a fast rod and a metal lip that energy is going to the lure and
the lure might not handle it well. Older anglers or those with injuries issues might feel like they
prefer a softer action rod since it will require less energy to load them but that comes at decreased
performance.
I have some of both type of rods and in general I kept coming back to faster actioned rods.
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post #10 of 105
4/28/14
scoobydoo
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Great information so far in this thread.

Additionally Rods that flex further down the blank when loaded up, aid in keeping hooks pinned
and preventing break offs from surging fish.
Slower rods are much better/ efficient fish fighting tools.
I don't really understand why so many of the newer rods are so stiff....especially with the amount
of fisherman using braid. Other than a few rods from shimano and lamiglas. There really isn't
much to choose from in a factory offering. Especially in the 10-11' 1-4 oz range
"The best nights I found to be the hottest; if you got swamp ass its go time"
By...SkunkmasterFlex
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post #11 of 105
4/28/14
Drew C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobydoo
Great information so far in this thread.
Additionally Rods that flex further down the blank when loaded up, aid in keeping hooks pinned
and preventing break offs from surging fish.
Slower rods are much better/ efficient fish fighting tools.
I don't really understand why so many of the newer rods are so stiff....especially with the amount
of fisherman using braid. Other than a few rods from shimano and lamiglas. There really isn't
much to choose from in a factory offering. Especially in the 10-11' 1-4 oz range
I don't think you can make generalizations like this. The amount of rod flex has nothing to do with
keep a surging fish on, the reel's drag does. You can have a mid flex type rod but its not going to
do a damn thing if the drag is cranked down. Also, if that rod is under a full load there won't be any
give left in it regardless of drag setting. Ideally, you want both to work together here. A rod and
reel that's properly matched for the job.
Same thing for a 'slower' rod being a better fighting tool. A rod is a lever, its length will have a
greater impact on its efficiency as a tool.
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post #12 of 105
4/28/14
buz23
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I've built a number of surf rods and don't think any of them is anywhere near fast, even though
they may be described as such. If they were really fast you would need to bunch some runners
near the tip to get reasonable angles between the runners.
Among my rods, however, the ones with the smallest tip diameter are easiest to cast and retrieve
for long periods of time. They still aren't fast by any means but they balance nicely and don't lead
to wrist and back fatigue.
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post #13 of 105
4/28/14
scoobydoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew C.
I don't think you can make generalizations like this. The amount of rod flex has nothing to do with
keep a surging fish on, the reel's drag does. You can have a mid flex type rod but its not going to
do a damn thing if the drag is cranked down. Also, if that rod is under a full load there won't be any
give left in it regardless of drag setting. Ideally, you want both to work together here. A rod and
reel that's properly matched for the job.
Same thing for a 'slower' rod being a better fighting tool. A rod is a lever, its length will have a
greater impact on its efficiency as a tool.
So you're saying i can point the rod directly at a fish so the rod doesn't bend at all...and there will
be the same likelyhood of hooks pullin or line breaking as if i fought it with the rod at a 45 degree
angle. Cmon......Softer rods keep fish pinned and protect line from breaking better than stiff rods.
Especially with braid. Especially when throwing plugs........It absolutely can be a generalization.
A slower action rod will protect light at higher drag settings. Simply because it will act as a better
shock absorber
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post #14 of 105
4/28/14
Ba Ba Buoy
Devil's Advocate
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I like faster actions for jigging and slower actions for plugging. Fast action keeps you in better
contact with the jig and provides a better hookset especially when down deep. Softer action tends
to save my shoulder on a long day, prevents the dreaded metal lip tumblings, and makes a pencil
dance far more effectively.
Quote:
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
~Henry David Thoreau
(*member formerly known as 'MV Bluefish')
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post #15 of 105
4/28/14
crazybellringer
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i like a medium heavy rod, with fast action.

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post #16 of 105
4/28/14
johnnycakes
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I don't know if "stiff" is the best description. With many of the newer rods and layouts you will find
many rods have a better recovery rate. It is a firmer feel but not stiff. Stiff describes a rod that does
not bend easily and usually has poor sensitivy. With a lot of the newer rods out there you can find
a rod with the backbone to throw 6oz's yet will load and cast well with just an ounce. The feel is
different and not always in a friendly type of way yet the capabilities and performance are much
better in some of the newer rods out there.
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post #17 of 105
4/28/14
FishinHard2
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What does fast action mean?

Matthew
14 Year Old Fisherman
2010: 1st Place Potato Creek State Park Tournament- 6 1/2 LB large Mouth
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post #18 of 105
4/28/14
johnnycakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishinHard2
Fast action rods bend mostly in the top 1/3 or so of the rod. Usually not much near the bottom 1/2
but it stores it's energy there. I believe the term fast comes from how long it takes to return to the
nuetural state " straight" after its energy is released. At least that's how it was explained to me.
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post #19 of 105
4/28/14
carangua
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It is a fact that there is a kind of a buzz/fashion in angling press and brands regarding the merit of
faster and faster action tip rods. I'm not sure faster is always better, it's not that simple..
A fast rod will transmit more direct motion to an artificial lure that needs twitching, it will also
enable a sharper hook set on the strike prior to bending, on the other hand, a slow rod will provide
more elasticity during the fight which can be an advantage against opening the hook, tearing flesh
or keeping contact on a head shake while using barbless hooks. The analogy is somehow
comparable to using braid and nylon.
There are situations where you need the rod to be stiff during the fight, like when you must turn
the fish from heading to obstacles with a tight drag, a slow rod in this case is not really an asset.
When fishing with natural soft or live bait, I prefer a slow rod that will allow loading gradually and
casting smoothly without damaging the bait.
A broom stick that doesn't flex is not better than a spaghetti with no bone, while casting you need
some flexion that will be stored and then released to add speed to the final acceleration, what's
most important in my view is the matching between lure weight and true rod rating.
Weather slow or fast, both rigidity and flexion are needed, which to prioritize is based on the type
of fishing and sensations one is looking for, up to the user to find the sweet spot and capitalize on
the tool in hand.
I believe the rod of the future will enable the user to select the desired flexibility during action.
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post #20 of 105
4/28/14
FishinHard2
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Here's what I'm understanding:

Slow: stiff
Fast: flexible
Matthew
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post #21 of 105
4/28/14
EBHarvey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexey
are easier to control a fish with. Right?
Wrong.
Slower actioned rods are absolutely better tools for fighting and controlling fish. Here's why:
a slower rod, one that flexes well into the butt section, lets you keep pressure on a fish that's
thrashing around or making abrupt changes in its direction. The larger degree of flex allows the
rod to absorb quick releases of tension that would leave you with slack line when using a faster
rod. It is much harder for a fish to throw a hook that's attached to a slow or moderate action rod.
the larger amount of flex also absorbs some of the shock of a quick run or head shake instead of
transferring it directly to the reel, whose drag has to overcome a quick moment of inertia before
releasing any line. With the rod taking some of that shock it gives the drag time to engage and can
protect your line from a sudden snap. a soft rod is like a big rubber band between you and the fish.
its also easier to land fish with a softer rod, not only for the reasons mentioned above which are
doubly important when a fish is at your feet, but because you can more safely high-stick to get a
fish within arms reach. a fast action rod can force you to either horribly high stick and risking
breaking it or have to put the rod down to get the fish close enough to grab.
Finally, when a soft rod flexes it decreases the effective length of the lever you're employing, or
rather the lever the fish is employing, giving you a better mechanical advantage, or, rather, a
smaller mechanical disadvantage. A long, stiff rod works against you and helps the fish.
For what its worth, I think a lot of people would appreciate softer rods and how well they fight fish
if they learned how to fight fish more effectively to begin with. 90% of the people I see reeling in a
bass or a blue from the beach is acting like they're on one of the 1980's bass fishing shows, trying
to milk the fight for all the camera time its worth. Most of us are using gear that could literally pull
a striper's spine out of its body if we wanted to, yet people baby fish like they're using 2# test
tippets instead of 50# leaders. The more time you take to get a fish in the better the chance it
throws the hooks, rubs you off on the bottom, your knots fail, or the hook opens up a nice big hole
and slides right on out. Pull on the damn thing, hard. Your line won't break and the hook won't pull,
if its a good set and your drag is appropriately tight. The rod is supposed to flex, and the more it
does the more its helping you, so pull hard enough to get a nice deep bend in it.
originally posted by"Otter"...no matter what even if i came home with that cup of failtry, its
clobberin time. you didnt bring me exactly what i asked and lay it at my feet. sometimes i think i
married the killer dude from 'no country for old men' in a size 0
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post #22 of 105
4/28/14
EBHarvey
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Quote:
Here's what I'm understanding:
Slow: stiff
Fast: flexible
no.
either can be stiff or flexible. the difference is in how/where they flex. a fast rod flexes in just the
tip section, a slow rod flexes all the way down to the butt section.
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post #23 of 105
4/28/14
Drew C.
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Quote:
So you're saying i can point the rod directly at a fish so the rod doesn't bend at all...and there will
be the same likelyhood of hooks pullin or line breaking as if i fought it with the rod at a 45 degree
angle. Cmon......Softer rods keep fish pinned and protect line from breaking better than stiff rods.
Especially with braid. Especially when throwing plugs........It absolutely can be a generalization.
A slower action rod will protect light at higher drag settings. Simply because it will act as a better
shock absorber
No it doesn't. Using your example you are assuming there is power remaining in the rod, ie "it acts
like a shock absorber" that implies that the rod is not under full load.
Assume a fish is capable of enough force to fully load a rod and there's a locked down drag as
well. Assume two rods of equal power, one is fast and one is slow but they are going to break
under the same amount of force. The slower rod isn't going to do anything for you at all in that
situation. As soon as it reaches it's maximum capacity something's going to give. Now if you want
to have a rod that can exceed the maximum amount of expected force that it's likely to face that's a
different story, there will be something left in 'reserve' but it's action doesn't matter.
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post #24 of 105
4/28/14
WickedStriper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ba Ba Buoy
I like faster actions for jigging and slower actions for plugging. Fast action keeps you in better
contact with the jig and provides a better hookset especially when down deep. Softer action tends
to save my shoulder on a long day, prevents the dreaded metal lip tumblings, and makes a pencil
dance far more effectively.
+1.
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post #25 of 105
4/28/14
FishinHard2
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I'm so lost right now, but I'm trying to learn so I will stick with this thread
Matthew

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post #26 of 105
4/28/14
Sweetwater
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Location: Columbia, SC
I think calling a fishing rod a lever is a bit misleading. It is a spring. It is designed to store and
release force on demand.
To describe actions, think of the leaf springs on the suspension of a truck. You have one that
arches back all the way to the frame, then several that are flat and open. The one with the arch
simply stores energy. Each one beyond it is designed to receive and release progressively more
force though a spring with a foot. The inner ones are designed to store power and release it
slowly. The outer ones store power and release it quickly. A moderate rod resembles the inner
spring with a smaller foot and longer spring and a fast rod acts like an outer spring- more foot
than spring.
983
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post #27 of 105
4/28/14
scoobydoo
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Quote:
No it doesn't. Using your example you are assuming there is power remaining in the rod, ie "it acts
like a shock absorber" that implies that the rod is not under full load.
Assume a fish is capable of enough force to fully load a rod and there's a locked down drag as
well. Assume two rods of equal power, one is fast and one is slow but they are going to break
under the same amount of force. The slower rod isn't going to do anything for you at all in that
situation. As soon as it reaches it's maximum capacity something's going to give. Now if you want
to have a rod that can exceed the maximum amount of expected force that it's likely to face that's a
different story, there will be something left in 'reserve' but it's action doesn't matter.
I understand the point that you are trying to make. But I can't agree with it. We both fish quite a bit.
We both are knowledgeable. I'll defer to EB's post....as that's the unabridged version of one of the
points i was making.
But...if me and the fish didn't move. And i gradually pulled. If the force required to move the fish
was 10 lbs. Both rods being capable of applying that effort. Then yes you are right. There would be
no issue Fast moderat or slow. They would all move the weight with zero risk.....Additionally
Assuming each rod is of the same length. The slower rod would put the least strain on the angler.
But.
Fish move erratically. Drags must be smooth to pay out line (start up inertia is another
factor)...Rods must flex to absorb shock while at the same time applying pressure.
Look at steelhead rods....very soft to protect light lines and small diamter hooks.
Freshwater "crankbait" rods. Soft slow actions to help keep fish take the bait a bit deeper, and
prevent hooks from opening up puncture holes and shacking free.
Rods designed for daytime swordfishing or Deep dropping extreme depths are very slow and load
up close to the reel seat.......all in an attempt to keep hooks from tearing as mentioned above.
Tight lines...and great discussion
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post #28 of 105
4/28/14
EBHarvey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetwater
You can call it whatever you want, but a fishing rod is a lever in the classical, literal, and
mechanical sense - its very utility as a means of sending a projectile out into the ocean is a
function of its being a lever. It might be a "springy" lever, but it ain't a spring.
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post #29 of 105
4/28/14
John B
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Location: Brick/Seaside Park, NJ
Quote:
I'm so lost right now, but I'm trying to learn so I will stick with this thread
Sometimes a picture helps:
I ate one anchovy, and that is why I did not eat two anchovies.
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post #30 of 105
4/28/14
EBHarvey
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Quote:
Assume two rods of equal power, one is fast and one is slow but they are going to break under the
same amount of force.
no they aren't.
take two rods of the same length made from the same quantities of the same materials that deflect
the same amount under a given load and the faster actioned one is going to break first if you keep
upping the load. see my post above relating to mechanical advantage and decreasing the effective
length of the lever.
think about what you do when you want to break your line off - you point the rod towards it. a slow
rod flexing into the butt section is, in effect, doing the same thing, tranferrring the load down
towards the stronger section of the rod. a fast actioned rod cannot do this and is forced to bear
the full load up high, where it is weaker.
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post #31 of 105
4/28/14
Keltan
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Location: Macedonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk19
WOW Mr Cakes, you said that perfectly ......LOL Seriously, what Johnny said is true as is what Billy
also stated... Go to a demo and try them for yourself to see what fits you best...
If you think a fast action rod controls fish better try that one out on a day when you have 15 pound
blues at the end of your cast for a few hrs. I have seen fast action rods make grown men cry ...lol
by the end of a long session. Remember, you are only fighting that fish with the top 25% of the
rod...
This is true only on small fish ! Almost all of my rods are Ex. Fast. And on the bigger catch they
quite nice bend deep in the but section
Quote:
Mean that they have more sensitivity and BETTER-FASTER hookset and say FAST rod helps if
you're fishing near of some underwater obstacles, you will faster and efficiently pull fish on clean .
BUT, FAST rod with small max. casting weight is not faster than a slow parabolic with bigger max.
casting weight . All is in force needed to bend the rod .. .
Imagine that silence when people speak only of what they know
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post #32 of 105
4/28/14
Keltan
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Location: Macedonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by John B
Sometimes a picture helps:
Yes, these type of images bring the most confusion to the anglers. In this image is shown HOW
rod will reacts when you cast lure and when you set the hook . NOT how he will bending under the
fish ...
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post #33 of 105
4/28/14
Surfmaster250
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You guys are mistaking action for power.. Both are different.in simple terms Action is how a rod
bends.. Power is how much it takes to put that bend into the rod. Fast action rods can have the
same power as a moderate action or Slow action.. They bend diffent but can have the same power.
To say most prefer fast action is wrong.. Most prefer moderate or moderate fast. Take fly rods..
Most salt guys like fast action to punch wind.. Salmon/steelhead guys prefer moderate. Moderate
simply due to jumping fish or fish in structure some absorber is needed to prevent pull outs and
breakoffs.
N.E.R.B. North East Rod Builders
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post #34 of 105
4/28/14
hobobob
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
How does a simple thread turn into something so complicated and get more confusing after the
1st page. lol
Action ( extra fast, fast, mod, slow..) refer to the tip of the rod, faster action does not mean the rod
is more powerful, but it means the rod is more stiff as the action become faster.
Power ( light, medium, heavy ) referring to the butt section of the rod after the tip section. This is
where the power comes in after hook up and how the rod handles the fish. The butt section can
have a longer power transition and dead stop by design.
exaggerated example would be a spring steel wire / antenna tapped to a broom stick. Flexible
steel wire will be the tip ( action ), broom stick would be the butt section ( power ).
10 ft extra fast rod would have 1-2 ft steel wire, 8-9 ft broom handle.
10 ft slow action would have 4-5 ft steel wire 5-6 ft broom handle.
Sensitivity is a little better on extra fast rod than a slow action rod since only very little section of
the rod that flex ( tip ), but as other have mentioned, there is little to no flex in the rod to fight the
fish.
Majority of the sensitivity comes from the blank material / scrim material. Graphite is light, stiff,
excellent in vibration transmission. "Usually" more expensive. fiberglass weights more, more
flexible, dampened vibration. Blank maker will use any combination of these two to achive their
design goal ( deep sea jigging, flipping stick, ugly stick, etc ).
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post #35 of 105
4/28/14
scoobydoo
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I respect all of the posters in this thread. But there many posts with a terrible amount of incorrect
information being given in this thread.
Low pressure is coming....get out and fish before the electricity starts!!
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post #36 of 105
4/29/14
akelly
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I believe that a lot of anglers use Fast action rods for the simple fact that they are widely available,
they are cheaper to make since they have the most simple design, a cone shape if you will. This is
a lot easier to do. A slow action blank may require some "zoning" ,as rod blank manufactures call
it, to be able to achieve desired action but still have fighting power. I have come to realize that for
me fast action rods have a much more limited use, they tire me out more than a slow action rod.
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post #37 of 105
4/29/14
WickedStriper
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Lol 3 pages! It's simple. Fast & slow rods each have their respective applications. Ever tried to
jig 4-5oz with a slow/noodle rod. It's pointless. Ever tried to cast an SP minnow with a Xfast/broomstick rod? Same story.
You buy a fast or slow rod depending on what type of fishing you're doing.
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post #38 of 105
4/29/14
akelly
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WickedStriper puts it well, application is key. I do personally think that many times people will get
a rod that is much to fast for their needs, I used to do the same thing thinking i need a much faster
rod with a 3-6 oz rating when in reality a moderate/fast or moderate action rod with a 1-4 oz rating
is much more practical for me fishing the open beach. this is not to say that people are wrong
choosing a faster action higher rated rod just that what seems good in the shop/store may not be
what you want on the water. My personal experience is that when im playing with a rod before i
purchase it it should feel as though it may be a touch light, if this is this case when i get out on the
water ends up being just what i was looking for.
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post #39 of 105
4/29/14
lureman
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Joined: 8/2008
Posts: 1034
Location: north jersey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfmaster250
You guys are mistaking action for power.. Both are different.in simple terms Action is how a rod
bends.. Power is how much it takes to put that bend into the rod. Fast action rods can have the
same power as a moderate action or Slow action.. They bend diffent but can have the same power.
To say most prefer fast action is wrong.. Most prefer moderate or moderate fast. Take fly rods..
Most salt guys like fast action to punch wind.. Salmon/steelhead guys prefer moderate. Moderate
simply due to jumping fish or fish in structure some absorber is needed to prevent pull outs and
breakoffs.
+1, John, great analogy buddy
A beach is a place where a man can feel, he's the only soul in the world thats real ; A jetty is a
place where a man feels, he must have a bucket full of eels.
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post #40 of 105
4/29/14
Stewie
Scarecrow
online
Joined: 7/2003
Posts: 14838
Location: a little North and West of Boston
I have a broomstick, a couple of slooow honey Lamis, and several moderate action rods. They all
bend to the same basic shape, but require different amounts of force to load them. Since I have my
left thumb on the line all the time, I don't worry so much about sensitivity. I just use whichever rod
jumps into my hand on the way up from the basement.
John, it was a pleasure swinging the 1329 conventional on Sunday. I could happily use that one for
everything I do.
.........Elvis lives....2014
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post #41 of 105
4/29/14
Drew C.
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Joined: 1/2003
Posts: 9788
Quote:
I understand the point that you are trying to make. But I can't agree with it. We both fish quite a bit.
We both are knowledgeable. I'll defer to EB's post....as that's the unabridged version of one of the
points i was making.
But.

There are clearly multiple factors at play here. I think in some examples there is bias - slow is soft
and forgiving, fast isn't. That's not true. If a fish will become unbuttoned at 10lbs of force and 11lbs
is applied, the soft rod won't do jack for you. Too much force was applied and the fish is gone.
Might it help with a sudden surge, maybe, but then again so will a properly set drag. In your other
example you use a rod pointed straight at the fish and one at 45, it won't matter at all. If you apply
more force at 45 degrees than the fish can handle its a goner, if you apply less (via drag) at a
straight pull you'll keep it on. The rod doesn't apply the force, the angler does. The rods may act
differently depending on their design but they will still respond to the amount of force applied. The
trick (and skill is applying the correct amount). We've all mad mistakes here and the angler that
blames the fast action rod is only fooling himself.
Surfmaster250 clear one thing up that is confusing - power doesn't equal action. You can have hvy
powered rod in fast action and slow action, they'll handle the same weights, lines, etc but they'll
behave differently.
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post #42 of 105
4/29/14
lichum
Waaay too many!
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Joined: 12/2006
Posts: 56173
Location: Way out in the sticks.
Quote:
There's really no truth to that. The rod doesn't do any work on its own. Its an elastic lever. The rod
is loaded when the caster applies force to it, the more force applied, the greater the load and the
energy stored in the rod and the greater the release of that energy at the completion of the cast. In
order to load a rod the casting stroke needs to constantly accelerate and then come to a complete
and abrupt stop. If the rod isn't accelerating it won't be loaded. If the rod doesn't come to a
complete stop (it drifts) energy is wasted. 'Fast' action rods require more energy to load them
properly, you'll either have to apply more power to the cast or more speed (or both). Slower action
rods will load with less energy but will obviously release less energy at the completion of the cast,
resulting in decreased performance (that might not be the best way to put it).
There are uses for both. Eels, bait, etc; a fast action rod might not be the best choice - the force
needed to load the rod is probably greater than the durability of the eel's head... Plugs that tend to
tumble in flight might also benefit from a slower action rod (or slowing down while using a fast
rod). If you're making hero casts with a fast rod and a metal lip that energy is going to the lure and
the lure might not handle it well. Older anglers or those with injuries issues might feel like they
prefer a softer action rod since it will require less energy to load them but that comes at decreased
performance.
I have some of both type of rods and in general I kept coming back to faster actioned rods.
for the tutorial Drew C.
i'm a purple penguin. r u a purple penguin like me?
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post #43 of 105
4/30/14
johnnycakes
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Posts: 4343
As said different applications will have you reaching for different style rods but even though the
masses may use a particular action for a specific use doesn't always mean it is best for all.
Example In Montuak Moderate action rods are the local favorite but if you bucktail more than
anything else ,you may find the sensitivity of a faster action more to your liking. (lemme explain)
Your working your bucktail thru the rocks getting as close as you can without snagging. You feel
the bucktail hitting the rock,you pull up quickly to try and prevent it from snagging. With a
moderate/slower action the rod will bend further down causing a delay in response but with a
faster action the tip bends only slightly and the power kicks in faster creating a quicker response.
When finessing a buck tail thru a boulderfeild this can be the difference between snagging and not
snagging.
Another benefit I have found with a moderate/faster action is on aerodynamic plugs like sp's and
pencils and even tins is if you lay into your cast hard ,the plug will often shoot off the rod like a
dart,with no wobble,giving you the greatest distance. On a slower /moderate action if you hit it
hard ,you can overpower the blank easier and the plug comes off wobbling a bit. Cheating you out
of distance.
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post #44 of 105
4/30/14
Jersey Salt
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Joined: 10/2011
Posts: 622
Location: N.J.
There is a different tool for every job. I prefer something a little more moderate for most surf
applications. I do like a faster blank when punching metals or heavy needles into a headwind, but
for MOST applications a moderate rod suits me better. Once you get your casting technique down
pat, you will find the moderate rod is a lot easier to load and cast.
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post #45 of 105
4/30/14
Danny17
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Joined: 3/2014
Posts: 40
Location: Plymouth, MA
Slow/parabolic rods for pencils / fast action rods for jigging, metals, etc - it's good to have options
and personal preference plays a big part - if you fight fish and horse them in mainly using just
your reel then there both at equal risk to potentially break IMHO
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post #46 of 105
4/30/14
SINY
offline
Joined: 7/2013
Location: Staten Island
slow action= poppers, and metal lips (preferred on jetties too) fast action= jigs, tins (preferred in
areas where distance is key to catching)
Ryan
14 year old surf fisherman from Staten Island, been fishing since I was 10 and trying to learn
as much as possible to become successful at this awesome sport!
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post #47 of 105
5/15/14
John Rinaldo
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Joined: 5/2013
Posts: 22
Location: Long Island, NY
It's my opinion that when using braid, ultra fast rods leave very little room for error. If a fish turns
unexpectedly, there's a drag issue, etc., there is no "give" when you combine braid with a very fast
rod. The braid does not have the elasticity that mono offers, and the rod will not bend significantly
past the tip. They are good for casting dense, aerodynamic lures- if that's your thing...
The majority of my builds are on GSB blanks. They have served the surf casting community well
for a long time and will continue to help me catch big fish. I also love a nice slow fiberglass stick
for minnow style lures and light bucktails. Never have an issue sticking big fish- just keep the
hooks razor sharp...
A moderate action paired with braid offers a nice combination of sensitivity and casting distance
while also allowing some "give" while fighting a fish and some play when working plugs. There are
a lot of blanks out there with great actions, but I am not really a huge fan of super fast blanks.
I guess for the guys who fish a lot of metal they are good. I always grab a bucktail before metail
though...
JR
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post #48 of 105
5/28/14
hholt
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Joined: 7/2013
Posts: 36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOIzaDYVeho
I love this video. Whipping a large fish with a slow rod clearly demonstrates the point difference
between power and action.
Personally I love surfcasting with old lami fiberglass rods. Slow by today's standards, but
powerful and effective in controlling hooked fish.
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post #49 of 105
6/13/14
sytheteacher
online
Joined: 5/2014
I use heavy line, heavy weighted lures or sinkers and a long thick rod for years and never had any
problems, just crank then in !!!!! No matter whats out there any heavy action rod has enough bow
in the action to act as a shock absorbing qualities to fight the monster fish. The distance in
casting is achieved with practicing with the equipment they are going to use .I don't claim to be an
expert, Just an experienced fisherman.....
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post #50 of 105
6/24/14
goldencreek
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Joined: 6/2013
Posts: 10
I do much better with a soft rod using circle hooks catching Pompano from the surf in North
Carolina
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post #51 of 105
6/25/14
JettyGuy
online
Joined: 10/2010
Posts: 2791
Location: Near water.
A very informative thread! I find that rod choice has a lot to do with someone's personal fishing
style and the kind of fishing that they do most often.
Not so much rocket science but closer to common sense.
Some like a faster rod for throwing smaller stuff. You'll look pretty ridiculous trying to throw a half
ounce buck tail with a big thick stick. The lure will go absolutely nowhere. I bucktail a lot over
rocky terrain( for those who live in places where this lure goes unused, it's a small lead jig with
buck tail hair attached and completed by using a small piece of pork rind as the ultimate
attractant) ,so often I use a rod that has tremendous flex and allows me to respond more quickly to
a bump. This enables me to immediately adjust the depth of the buck tail to prevent hang-ups. This
is typically a more tapered rod that gives me the freedom to throw small lures better than I could
toss a heavier plug. While this is not scientific---I noticed that when trying to tame a large striper, a
slightly heavier, although still tapered rod, enables me to tame the fish much more easily than
using a thinner, lighter blank.
If you fish Montauk and look around,you'll notice that the fellows who are specifically stalking
larger fish are typically using medium to very heavy equipment.
This enables them to throw larger lures a hefty distance and when they connect with a big fish, the
rods that they are using make it easier to get the fish in quicker and with less effort. I am referring
to fishermen who are not interested in catching small fish----the "BIG FISH GUYS" people who
literally walk away from the typical fish that I personally love to catch (10-30lbs) are using very
heavy equipment. These are guys who sometimes trade comfort for power and many use medium
to extremely heavy rods coupled with 50lb braid and heavy leader material. They are after that one
huge fish a month. Blitzing smaller fish to them are not worth their effort or simply not what they
are fishing for. PERSONALLY,I'll focus on quantity all day long and if I do hook into larger fish,it's
happenstance.
I prefer more tapered rods that allow me to throw lighter stuff. Most fishermen are hunting for
stripers that are in that 10lb -30 lb range so a smaller to medium heavy rod works just fine. Again
there are rare situations where the fish are on large bait and might be 150 yards off the beach.
Then you need a more powerful rod sometimes larger and thicker to load a heavier lure and get it
out there. Also you don't go to a gunfight with a knife----your rod is a tool that should be used for
whatever conditions you expect to encounter. Try dragging a 15lb striper out of a heavy current
and over rocks with a light rod----you'll be PLAYING the fish too long and it will be not so much fun
for you or the fish.
I have to applaud the way most of the posters here portrayed the science of power and action.
I was hoping that my post would illustrate the actual application to a certain extent.
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post #52 of 105
6/27/14
Donvan
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Joined: 6/2014
Posts: 26
Location: Santa Rosa , Ca
OK... being new to this I read as much as could before being overloaded...i will have to re-read this
again ...buuuut for the mean time,I have two rods that were gifts and funds are low right now
,could i use these rods out on the surf say for perch or even something bigger
GLoomis PR 844C 7` Med Fast Action 8-17# 1/4-5/8 oz.
Gloomis STR 1025C 8`6'' Med-Heavy fast Action 8-17# 3/8-1 oz.
Thanks Donvan
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post #53 of 105
7/4/14
chuy
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Joined: 7/2014
Posts: 7
yes im confuse or lost

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post #54 of 105
8/12/14
sunburned
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Joined: 8/2014
Posts: 48
I am a newbie here. I can figure out about most of the words you guys use but there are some that
I would like to get some help on. Can someone please explain some of the terminology that you
guys are using: plugs, metal lips, popping, pencil dance. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
in advance.
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post #55 of 105
8/12/14
johnnycakes
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Joined: 12/2008
Posts: 4343
Plugs= lures
metal lips = a woden or plastic plug with a metal lip. IE metal lip swimmer
popping = a plug (usually a pencil or polaris type popper) that is fished by using short tugs on the
rod causing the plug to jump forward and splash water,imitating a wounded fish. This is called
popping.
Pencil dance= when popping a pencil it usually swings from side to side with each tug on the rod.
that motion is sometimes referred to dancing or action.
If these are hard to understand a visual aid makes it real easy. Try searching for video's or fishing
near guys who are doing this and it will become clear .
Good luck
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post #56 of 105
8/12/14
JettyGuy
online
Joined: 10/2010
Posts: 2791
Location: Near water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donvan
OK... being new to this I read as much as could before being overloaded...i will have to re-read this
again ...buuuut for the mean time,I have two rods that were gifts and funds are low right now
,could i use these rods out on the surf say for perch or even something bigger
GLoomis PR 844C 7` Med Fast Action 8-17# 1/4-5/8 oz.
Gloomis STR 1025C 8`6'' Med-Heavy fast Action 8-17# 3/8-1 oz.
Thanks Donvan
There is no official law about what one can use in the surf.
A lot depends on what you are fishing for and where the fish are located and what lure you intend
to throw.
A seven foot rod for OCEAN surfcasting would limit you to using very small lures,even if the
forage fish in the water were huge.
If you hooked up with a 40lb striper in a heavy, HUGE, crashing surf with current---you'd be
fighting the fish too long(it might take you 30 minute to land it) and probably exhaust the fish for
release purposes.
Most fishers would use a seven foot rod as a back bay tool. Sometimes fish are hunting very small
bait, like anchovies . I have seen guys using smaller rods then---even in the ocean surf.
Your 8'6" rod would be somewhat better for the Ocean---but even that is a little bit too small to
allow you to consistently hunt big fish. Certainly you could do it---but again you'll be playing fish a
long time in a big current.
It is a very nice choice for back bays where the water is somewhat calmer, easier to reach deeper
water,where there is less white water and crazy large waves and the current might be more
manageable.
I do see plenty of guys using an 8'6" rod in the ocean surf. These are mostly die hard bucktailers
who want to be able to throw tiny bucktails that mimic the smaller bait.
These guys are throwing sometimes 1/4 ounce lures. They sometimes mohawk the bass ----but
they spend a lot of time playing their fish.
Hope this helps you. Get a tapered 10ft rod for the surf ,if you want to throw 3/4 to 3 ounces. A
much better choice for ocean fishing and the type of fight that a strong fish will give you in big
water.
For perch why not?
.
Edited by JettyGuy - 8/12/14 at 9:58am
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post #57 of 105
8/12/14
sunburned
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Joined: 8/2014
Posts: 48
Thanks for the fast response Johnnycakes. You da man. I'm going to hit youtube tonight and see
what I can find.
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post #58 of 105
8/12/14
johnnycakes
offline
Joined: 12/2008
Posts: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunburned
Thanks for the fast response Johnnycakes. You da man. I'm going to hit youtube tonight and see
what I can find.
Skinner makes some very informative videos.
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post #59 of 105
8/12/14
sunburned
offline
Joined: 8/2014
Posts: 48
Thanks for the information. I will check out skinner also. I also saw online a person named Alan
Hawks who does reviews of spinners. How is he rated? He seems impartial to any brand.
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post #60 of 105
8/13/14
PhilCVG
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Joined: 7/2002
Posts: 1199
Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnycakes
Example In Montauk Moderate action rods are the local favorite but if you bucktail more than
anything else ,you may find the sensitivity of a faster action more to your liking.
Funny I have always felt that a "faster" action rod, which feels more "crisp" to me, is more
sensitive in my hands that a more moderate action rod such as the GSB line. But I've been told
there is not really a correalation.
If I'm throwing lighter plugs or bucktails or any lure that I want/need to stay in constant
contact/feeling with, I want that fast action to feel everything I possibly can. If I'm throwing pencils,
I want the more moderation action of the GSB.
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post #61 of 105
8/14/14
Hayan
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Joined: 10/2013
Posts: 37
Location: Central, NJ
Quote:
I understand the point that you are trying toboth fish Assuming bit We both a knowledgeable. I'll
defer to EB's post....as that's the unabridged version of one of the points i was making.
But.
I agree. This might sound like bias since I prefer moderate rod over fast.
Maybe, if we look at a different angle it might help.
Assuming everything is equal... fisherman, line, reel, power rating on the rod except one is
moderate and other is fast. And fish is hooked on.
I believe moderate rod will put more pressure on the fish with less effort compare to fast rod. It
will take greater effort from fisherman to apply same pressure to the fish with fast action rod.
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post #62 of 105
8/14/14
Keltan
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Joined: 5/2009
Posts: 966
Location: Macedonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayan
I agree. This might sound like bias since I prefer moderate rod over fast.
Maybe, if we look at a different angle it might help.
Assuming everything is equal... fisherman, line, reel, power rating on the rod except one is
moderate and other is fast. And fish is hooked on.
I believe moderate rod will put more pressure on the fish with less effort compare to fast rod. It
will take greater effort from fisherman to apply same pressure to the fish with fast action rod.
I believe that with moderate rod during the fight the fish is not much nervous, somehow with
moderate rod fish is not that aggressive in fighting as when we have fast rod ?
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post #63 of 105
8/14/14
Hayan
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Joined: 10/2013
Posts: 37
Location: Central, NJ
I think i understand your statement. Let me clarify one thing as I forgot to mention one thing that
is "fish is out there hooked on 50 yd or more ". I believe we will need to put more force on the
fast rod to get same lb-force at the end of the fishing line compare to moderate rod. I dont have
exactly same spec power rod with difference of being moderate vs. fast to test this theory out.
However my belief is that you will exert more lb force on the end of the line with moderate rod
then fast rod using same fisherman strength.
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post #64 of 105
8/14/14
Sudsy
Forum Leader
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Joined: 12/2001
Location: Off the Hook, NJ USA
I didn't read the whole thread so it may have been mentioned already...................
A slow parabolic rod will give the proper action to a pencil or popper, something a fast rod does
not do well.
A fast rod has more sensitivity (especially with braid), something you want for plugging and
especially tin and teaser when bites can be subtle - you need to be able to feel everything. Not
something slower action rods do well.
"I just wanta play everyday despite small nagging injuries,

and go home to a woman who appreciates how full of crap I truly am"..... Crash Davis
"It doesn't take talent to play hard" ~ Derek Jeter
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post #65 of 105
8/14/14
crazybellringer
offline
Joined: 11/2008
But i feel like if you have a subtle bite with bait, say blood worms i will use a high low with a
heavier weight to anchor to the bottom and a slow action rod so i can cross eyes and send the fish
into next week.
I learned this this spring, I had four hits, swung on all four had one fish using a fast action rod,
chose the rod because it was light and i had to stand all night. changed the approach the next
night, to the slow rod and heavier weight and landed every bite i swung on.
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post #66 of 105
8/14/14
fishinambition
unique rabbit
online
Joined: 9/2006
Location: Shelbyville
pencil poppers on a fast action rod make me want a new shoulder after 3 casts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
a rat's smell is permanent
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post #67 of 105
8/14/14
scoobydoo
offline
Joined: 3/2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudsy
I didn't read the whole thread so it may have been mentioned already...................
A slow parabolic rod will give the proper action to a pencil or popper, something a fast rod does
not do well.
A fast rod has more sensitivity (especially with braid), something you want for plugging and
especially tin and teaser when bites can be subtle - you need to be able to feel everything. Not
something slower action rods do well.
Slow action rods are just as sensitive as fast action rods. IMHO...Surf rods in general aren't very
sensitive..at all...even the best of the best...big heavy double footed guides with lots of
epoxy...thick, heavy butts...dampen the vibration.
If you took a 9' heavy back bouncer slow action rod...it'd prolly be more sensitive than the most
sensitive surf rod.
Slow rods transmit the lever closer to the hand so it is more efficient to pull on...hence why for
fighting purposes many stand up big game rods are shorter and the front half of the rod is almost
sacrificial and all the power is a foot and a half above the reel seat.
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post #68 of 105
8/15/14
Mike Oliver
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Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
scoobydoo
Not true for all surf rods. More modern surf rods constructed with good carbon pre-pregs and
these days often feature lighter guides a la NGC can be very sensitive.
I fish a Zziplex Lite Bass and I can tell if a fish has breathed on my bait. LOL. No surf rod is
sensitive if plonked into a rod rest or sand spike You got to hold it to feel it.
Mike
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post #69 of 105
8/16/14
johnnycakes
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Joined: 12/2008
Posts: 4343
Lots of posts relating to angler fatigue with fast action vs moderate. I agree this is true and worth
discussing but how a rod fights the fish as opposed to how it casts and fishes is a good point.
When I am fishing I cast many times and having a rod that gives you the distance,control and
sensitivity out weighs the way it fatigues the angler during the fight itself in my eyes.
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post #70 of 105
8/16/14
Mike Oliver
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Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Johnny,
Depends if its a day of many casts and few fish or a day of a lot of fish fighting and few casts. I
would rather be fatigued by the latter.
Mike
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post #71 of 105
8/16/14
johnnycakes
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Posts: 4343
Mike if your casting less than catching , your a better man than I. :-)
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post #72 of 105
8/16/14
Mike Oliver
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Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Johnny,
Every Dog has his day. Even I get into the odd blitze. See you in Montauk Oct maybe. It maybe old
hat but for me a great rod that has excellent casting attributes and fish fighting is that old war
horse GSB 132 1M. Cant be described as fast action but is a great casting rod one even I in my
dotage can chuck all day long. A classic.
Mike
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post #73 of 105
8/16/14
BmR5979
offline
Joined: 2/2010
Location: L TOWN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Oliver
Johnny,
Every Dog has his day. Even I get into the odd blitze. See you in Montauk Oct maybe. It maybe old
hat but for me a great rod that has excellent casting attributes and fish fighting is that old war
horse GSB 132 1M. Cant be described as fast action but is a great casting rod one even I in my
dotage can chuck all day long. A classic.
Mike
most bad azz rod ever
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post #74 of 105
8/17/14
ccb
online
Joined: 10/2004
Location: Boston And Wareham
I have the old honey's and whites Lamiglass rods. If you want them lighter and more sensitive ,get
rid of the cork and reel seat. Its like having a different in your hands. I don't worry about the taped
reel, to the rod. I never had one come off yet.
Once you do it you will never go back.
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post #75 of 105
8/18/14
ez2cdave
online
Joined: 10/2007
Posts: 89
Location: North Carolina, USA
"Fishing is our Handshake, our Language. A Heritage that binds us together. A Passage our
fathers took. A Journey that lasts a lifetime, that we have begun again with our sons and
daughters." George "Gowge" Pope
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post #76 of 105
8/30/14
chuy
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Joined: 7/2014
Posts: 7
thanks for the information I'm learning how to chose the fishing rods
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post #77 of 105
8/30/14
LY2000
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Joined: 2/2013
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinambition
pencil poppers on a fast action rod make me want a new shoulder after 3 casts
When casting from such a low point of gravity...never mind.
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post #78 of 105
9/3/14
Rockfish666
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Joined: 7/2014
Posts: 23
Location: Center moriches
Very cool thread, looking to get a new rod and it defiantly was informative to read. Always used
faster action I think I'm gonna change it up a little.
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post #79 of 105
9/16/14
Tadpole1
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Joined: 8/2007
Posts: 106
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Yes, this is a great thread on the proper rod. I have always thought faster meant better but in my
case I see where I was wrong. In my particular situation I am in my mid 60's and am disabled from
an bike accident which caused eventual loss of strength in my legs and over time this has
somewhat effected my upper body strength. All of this equates to mostly shorter cast and
stumbling around from trying to get extra power in the cast. I also have trouble getting too deep in
the surf due to my loss of balance.
Would I be correct in assuming that I would be much better off with a medium action rod where I
don't have to put as much energy into the cast to get satisfactory or even better distance results?
What length rod sounds correct for me?
I would appreciate any suggestions.
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post #80 of 105
9/16/14
Mike Oliver
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Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Tadpole1,
Sorry I replied as if you were asking about fly rods. So just scrubbed out my reply.
Mike
Edited by Mike Oliver - 9/16/14 at 8:13pm
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post #81 of 105
9/16/14
Sweetwater
offline
Joined: 1/2001
Tadpole,
Assuming you are not talking about fly gear (which Mike knows but I don't), faster rods are better
for using the "Woodsman's Chop" style casts, which employs more shoulders and arms and less
hips and legs, and more moderate rods are better for pendulum style casts, which utilizes your
legs and hips to generate power that flows into your shoulders and arms.
The hatchet chop has the lure relatively close to the tip of the rod and a range of motion from 10-2
o'clock. The rod is brought quickly through the range and snapped towards the target, generally
with the tip passing somewhere close to overhead. It is also known as a snap cast or Montauk
chop. The reason it is called the Montauk chop is because guys who are standing on rocks have to
maintain their center of balance on the rock- they can't take a step or two into the cast.
A pendulum style cast had a longer drop of the lure from the rod tip. The lure is drawn back until it
starts to pull against the rod, then the rod is driven towards the target in a long sweep that may
start back as far as 6;30 or 7 o'clock and end at 3.
To put it in boxing terms, a snap cast is a jab, crisp and efficient, and a pendulum cast is a
roundhouse. Most people can put more power into a roundhouse than they can into a jab.
It appears you are better suited to use snap casts as your disability prevents you from really
winding up for a roundhouse. In that case, you may very well be better off with a faster action rod,
and your challenge will be to maximize the speed and crispness of your delivery. This can be done
by shortening the length of your rod and removing weight from your outfit. A shorter rod goes
from 10-2 in less time than a longer one, and a lighter outfit has less inertia to overcome to move it
around.
983
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post #82 of 105
9/16/14
akelly
offline
Joined: 2/2014
Posts: 28
I would say a more moderate action rod would be better in your case, as it requires less overall
force to let off a cast. A faster rod will cast further but it will require more force to get that distance.
A moderate rod is much easier to load, and cast all night, you will still get plenty of distance just
not the same as some of the fast action rods. Not sure what rods you are thinking about and price
range, but i would highly recommend a century s1 stealth, 1-4 oz. in the 10 ft length. This is my go
to rod for the majority of the season and it handles well on big fish. I primarily fish sand beaches,
not sure this would be a good rod for a place like the canal where a little more power may be
necessary.
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post #83 of 105
9/16/14
Tadpole1
offline
Joined: 8/2007
Posts: 106
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Thanks guys for you comments so far. I am talking about surf rods, probably a mid price and
quality spinning. I will never throw anything over 5 os.
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post #84 of 105
9/16/14
MikeBlue
offline
Joined: 9/2008
Posts: 632
Location: From Moriches to Shinne
Quote:
A faster rod will cast further but it will require more force to get that distance.
I see this statement a lot and it always puzzles me. While distance is related to the force applied
(obviously) I don't think that faster rods necessarily cast further. With a fast rod the force is
applied quickly over a short period of time, explosive is a good term. With a slower more parabolic
rod the force can be applied over a longer period of time because the rod stores it, in total more
force can be accumulated and released into the projectile. Or so it seems to me. I have never been
to distance casting tournament but from the videos I have seen it looks like they use slow action
parabolic rods. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #85 of 105
9/16/14
Sweetwater
offline
Joined: 1/2001
I agree with what akelly said as a general rule. All else equal, a moderate rod is less tiring than a
fast one. I prefer more moderate actions over faster ones. Tadpole is in a unique circumstance,
and general rules need to be rethought.
For his purposes, I would build a faster action rod with smaller, lighter guides at the tip, minimal
weight in the butt, and encourage him to use a smaller reel. That way he can maximize the muscle
groups that are working for him and reduce his need to use muscles that aren't doing so well, and
use the build of the rod to reduce fatigue instead of the action of the rod.
983
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post #86 of 105
9/16/14
Sweetwater
offline
Joined: 1/2001
With a more moderate rod, the force can be stored over a longer period of distance. You have to
slow down to allow the force transfer to occur across the distance, not across the time.
983
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post #87 of 105
9/17/14
Mike Oliver
offline
Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Mike
Uk tournament rods for casting 51/4 ounces are pretty darned quick. It is true that the cast looks
slow and in part that is due now to the extreme lengths of these rods which are 13 fee plus some
of them. Because the rods are so long and powerful they can't be moved quickly through the air.
The lead speed comes in part from the length of the rod and the fact the lead is on very long drop
so with rod and drop combined you have a very long arc. Early Pendulum designed rods were 11
feet 10 inches long and had reel in high position and Guys like Paul Kerry would move these
shorter rods through the casting arc with tremendous speed. Not many could he was exceptional.
But over time the bigger slower men owned the court due to their ability to handle very long rods.
These rods are not parabolic at all. Most Guys are not able to bend them.
A rod that Tadpole could consider is the Lami GSB 1321M. Now this rod can be cast with a short
stroke like the snap cast but if there is room it will put out a semi pendulum cast really well. Now a
fishing pendulum loads a rod very easily and will put way less strain on a Caster. The cast build up
is slow to start with and accelerates out to the end. But it does not have to be a violent
acceleration. It is a very smooth rhythmic cast. The Lami has thick walls and it can cope with semi
pendulum casting. The tip is soft enough to stop lead or lure bounce and give enough feel when
setting up the cast. I know this as I fish one on LI. An alternative for 1 to 4 ozs is the Zziplex Light
Bass. This rod is super light can be built from 11 feet 7 inches down to 11 feet no probs and will
snap cast and semi pendulum to. I use this rod again in LI and the Cape.
Fast taper thin wall blanks are not good for pendulum casting.
A unitech cast or a modified off the ground where the lead is placed well inside the rod arc loads a
rod very easily. Key is to stay away from UK Tourney Rods and fast taper fast and powerful stiff
rods in general. They are crap at fish fighting anyway and its not just about casting when
considering problems with your body through illness or injury. The CTS S7 I saw Lou casting on a
video and that's a 4 oz rod and worthy of consideration.
Rods like these and the Lami will cast down to 11/4 oz bucktails and cast them very well whilst
really getting hold of 2 ozs to 4ozs as well and they are not heavy rods. FSC have suitable models
in their range and so does CTS. I don't know the Century Rods at all. For me it is a must criteria
that my surf rods can cast 1 to 4ozs but have to do the 11/4 oz well as that is the staple diet in
Montauk for a lot of my fishing.
I rarely cast more than 3ozs for lures and plugs.
It will not be hard to get a rod to suit and it does not have to cost a kings ransom.
Hope this helps.
Mike
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post #88 of 105
9/17/14
MikeBlue
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Joined: 9/2008
Posts: 632
Thanks for the info Mike. So these guys are using fast rods but not snap casting.
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post #89 of 105
9/17/14
Mike Oliver
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Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Mike
Not sure what videos you have seen. But if it is one of a Tournament casting comp then none of
the Guys will be snap casting. No chance of loading their rods properly due to very short rod arc.
On the casting court mostly it is full blown pendulum casts or maybe there could be some Guys
still using the Yarmouth Back cast which is very similar to a pendulum in terms of how the power
and speed is generated. Rods used in UK and European Tournaments are totally hopeless when it
comes to fishing for good sized fish. They are too long and way too stiff and even a small fish
would tire a strong Fisher. I could never imagine one being used Under The Light in Montauk.
You have superb home grown products for Striper fishing plus product from CTS and Century to
play around with. You actually still have fish to target. Beach fishing in the Uk became all about
high performance rods and long distance casting and complicated rigs because we have no fish
worth targeting from the surf. Its amazing how the Industry managed to gloss over the fact that
there was no point in buying surf tackle for use in the UK. But like Lemmings many believed if only
they could cast 150 yards with a single Lug worm bait then they would become known as a "Big
Hitter" to and maybe they could then catch what was never there. LOL.
I don't come over the pond to the USA twice a year for no good reason.
Mike
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post #90 of 105
9/17/14
MikeBlue
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Joined: 9/2008
Posts: 632
OK, like I said "not snap casting". I had a Century 1327 SS. I'm 65, 170 lbs, a good athlete, still in
good shape. With 3 to 3.5oz I absolutely could not load this rod without massive effort. Lots of
raves about this stick but not from me. That's when I began to question the typical fast rod =
distance formula.
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post #91 of 105
9/17/14
sytheteacher
online
Joined: 5/2014
Learned a great amount of information about rating a rod. These articles are going to make us a
more knowledgeable consumer. Thanks for sharing all the great information, Sy
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post #92 of 105
9/17/14
ReelinRod
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Joined: 3/2002
Posts: 1601
Location: NE Philadelphia
Quote:

faster rods are better for using the "Woodsman's Chop" style casts, which employs more
shoulders and arms and less hips and legs, and more moderate rods are better for pendulum style
casts, which utilizes your legs and hips to generate power that flows into your shoulders and
arms.
This has been a pretty good thread but I need to take exception to this; this thinking, IMNSHO is
backwards.
Slower actions work best with fast, short motions that load the rod deeply as soon as the hands
begin to move. The overhead Woodsman's Chop is about the fastest and shortest stroke one can
use for effective surfcasting and when properly executed, with a slow action rod rated for the
payload, the rod is nearly fully compressed before the lure begins to move.
The motions that work best for slow rods start so fast they have to end slower but the deep
compression easily soaks up that slowing while maintaining contact with the payload and still
accelerating the lure (again, assuming you are casting the proper weight).
Fast action rods when cast with a snap motion also unload but with the rod not being deeply
compressed, and the tip recovery being "fast", contact with the payload is lost and acceleration is
lost. Fast actions perform best with longer strokes, ideally beginning with body rotation moving
the rod before the arms and then hands, come in. These motions start slow and end faster; contact
with the payload is maintained and because the application of energy is a constant building
progression, acceleration is happening throughout the entire motion.
If you are "snap-casting" a fast action rod I can guarantee it is unloading before you release, to the
point of degrading if not destroying casting performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBlue
Quote:
A faster rod will cast further but it will require more force to get that distance.
I see this statement a lot and it always puzzles me. While distance is related to the force applied
(obviously) I don't think that faster rods necessarily cast further. With a fast rod the force is
applied quickly over a short period of time, explosive is a good term. With a slower more parabolic
rod the force can be applied over a longer period of time because the rod stores it, in total more
force can be accumulated and released into the projectile. Or so it seems to me. I have never been
to distance casting tournament but from the videos I have seen it looks like they use slow action
parabolic rods. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
A faster rod will cast farther when cast correctly. As I say above, fast actions and quick motions
are not optimal. Stiffer butt, fast action rods respond to a longer stroke that starts slow and ends
faster (the hit). This is a catapult motion that uses the rod as a lever and with the proper drop, a
trebuchet type of acceleration as the lure swings out and away, on a much wider arc. The slow /
fast casting distance gap widens quickly employing a high-energy cast with a fast action rod
(which does not mean more effort). OTOH, using a refined casting motion with a slow rod often
has the rod collapse when casting in the mid to upper rating of the rod. Generally, employing high
energy casts with slow rods require you to move up in rod weight rating; slow[er] rods used in
tournament casting a bare 5oz sinker like the Zziplex Primo Syncho are excellent 8-N-Bait rods
using a fishing cast . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Oliver
over time the bigger slower men owned the court due to their ability to handle very long rods.
These rods are not parabolic at all. Most Guys are not able to bend them.
And most guys who move from a slow rod to a faster action aren't bending the new rod.
Guys who have cast nothing but slow rods like GSB's often have an initial guttural dislike for fast
action rods and can't be convinced that "stiff" rods cast farther . . .but they don't realize they need
to completely relearn how to cast.
Guys who cast a fast action rod like they do a slow one will often say, "it doesn't 'feel' right" and
they are correct . . . because they are casting it backwards, in fast, out slow . . . The rod is never
getting fully loaded and since that initial snap speed can't be maintained through the casting
motion, whatever load was attained, is lost as the rod unloads before the release.
Allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the US with amnesty and start the legal immigration
process
is like allowing a bank robber to go free and keep the money as long as he fills out a loan
application.
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post #93 of 105
9/18/14
Sweetwater
offline
Joined: 1/2001
I already know Mike Oliver, and I took a little time to review ReelinRod's posting history. I clearly
need to rethink what I have learned and take it back to my fishing experiences, because apparently
I have been going about this backwards. My understanding that a slower blank requires a longer
the arc of momentum has been contradicted by two people with greater experience than mine.
I do not cast competitively and only occasionally need to really push a plug to get to fish, but I do
take pride in correctly understanding how the world around me works. From that standpoint, I will
play around with my casting technique the next few times I fish to see what happens. I may also
take a blank and build it a couple of different ways then fish it with different drops and speeds and
see what comes of that.
983
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post #94 of 105
9/18/14
johnnycakes
offline
Joined: 12/2008
Posts: 4343
There is much to be learned by Reelin Rod about many things. Casting in particular. A very
informative post.
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post #95 of 105
9/18/14
MikeBlue
offline
Joined: 9/2008
Posts: 632
Quote:
using a refined casting motion with a slow rod often has the rod collapse when casting in the mid
to upper rating of the rod. Generally, employing high energy casts with slow rods require you to
move up in rod weight rating;
This points to one of the factors that rarely enters the discussion about rod action and rating, the
weight of the lure. I'm sure I could have loaded my SS 1327 if I was using a 5oz plug. If the blank is
collapsing then go down in lure weight. Another factor that is missing is who is the rod rated for
(or who is doing the rating?) a 25 yr old guy who goes to the gym regularly or 65 yr old like me
who "ain't what he used to be"? I know that rod manufacturers can't go crazy, but when looking for
a rod it's like golf, you've got to know what kind of club head speed you can generate and how
heavy a club you can swing. It is food for thought though, snap cast a slow rod, long and smooth
with a fast rod. Does this also mean short drop with slow rod and longer drop with a fast rod?
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post #96 of 105
9/18/14
Mike Oliver
offline
Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Reelin Rod
I am with you 100% regarding the issues many guys have when transferring from a slower rod to a
very fast action rod. Being strong and incredibly athletic whilst good attributes for any Sportsman
to have mean very little in casting a fast action powerful surf rod unless the Guy can well cast and
knows how to load the rod with a longer casting arc. Its possible to draw parallels with fly casting
where the big 300 lb Guy who is brand new believes he can muscle his way into a 90 foot cast and
all he produces is a woosh and hot air. The slow in and faster out is so fundamental to cast a high
performance fast action and powerful rod. The longer the rod the truer this gets. Now for me at any
rate for surf spinning and casting mostly from 1;25 ozs to 3ozs I don't want or need a super fast
action and very powerful rod. No use to me perched on top of a small rock trying to balance whilst
the surf is doing its best to knock me off. Uk style short pendulum rods like the Zziplex 1005, and
the 2500 and NG1 would be my rod of choice if I was needing up to 150 yards with a single worm
bait and the only reason I would elect for these lovely casting rods is because they can produce
the distance I need with smooth easily produced pendulum cast as these are not full blown
Tourney rods but still way to stiff to do a good job fighting fish. Sadly these short fast pendulum
rods are not made any more as the move to longer rods took hold some years ago.
Now the GSB 1321M is pretty versatile rod. It has more than enough balls to allow you to make a
very effective semi pendulum fishing cast and the effort required to do that is way less than an
aggressive short arc snap cast. Its like chalk and cheese. Because it is not a vicious rod it can still
be cast with a semi pendulum whilst perched on a reasonable rock as it is so easy to load this rod.
It will work with a slow in and a fast out technique.
The difficulty I am having is trying to calibrate what is considered fast and powerful in the USA
compared to rods in the UK and for which application. Surf with bait or spin only. Whats funny
over here is that the focus on long range high performance rods has distorted reality in that rods
are sold as fishing rods when in fact they are casting rods and its just a question of relativity
between Tournament and rods sold for angling. Its very sad to see Guys who are poor casters
trying to use these rods as they can't bend them to load them and if they would only let their pride
take a hit they would be so much better off with less powerful rods that they can induce a bend
into them and actually get a feel for the lead.
Mind its funny I think that perhaps we imagine every Fisher out there should be pretty good we are
no different to other sportsmen who say play racquet sports and if you took a 1000 of them there
would be a huge variation in the playing standard.
But with teaching almost any Fisher can be taught how to cast even a powerful surf rod pretty well
and in a short period of time. But some Guys just stroll into surf fishing or arrive by the keyboard
of their PC's after a troll around the internet buy a rod and you see the results of that nearly every
single day ( if you fish in daylight) on the beach.
When I used to build high performance rods for Surf Guys the biggest issue was small Guys and
even big new Guys wanting to jump straight into the equivalent of a Formula 1 car. Every time
more resulted in less way less.
Technique is a big factor. A friend of mine is barely 5 feet 8 inches and 160lbs and not what you
would consider remotely an Athlete and yet he can put a 5 oz lead over 220 yards with what looks
like an almost effortless pendulum cast which it can be once you can truly cast this way. It gets
really hard when the Tourney Guys start reaching out for 300 yards and ability plus great strength
is a requirement then.
For guys who don't cast well and are not interested in ever improving there are good rods made in
the USA that will allow simple overhead casts and off the ground casts that will put a lead out
beyond 100yards, which many would consider parabolic rods. Fast action rods are a delight to
cast and have a great clean feel to them but need a bit more effort to learn how to get the best out
of them but its not that hard a thing to do and cast correctly need no more effort than a slower
rod.
Mostly it is never the rod whatever the design it is 99% the Caster.
Mike
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post #97 of 105
9/18/14
Mike Oliver
offline
Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBlue
This points to one of the factors that rarely enters the discussion about rod action and rating, the
weight of the lure. I'm sure I could have loaded my SS 1327 if I was using a 5oz plug. If the blank is
collapsing then go down in lure weight. Another factor that is missing is who is the rod rated for
(or who is doing the rating?) a 25 yr old guy who goes to the gym regularly or 65 yr old like me
who "ain't what he used to be"? I know that rod manufacturers can't go crazy, but when looking for
a rod it's like golf, you've got to know what kind of club head speed you can generate and how
heavy a club you can swing. It is food for thought though, snap cast a slow rod, long and smooth
with a fast rod. Does this also mean short drop with slow rod and longer drop with a fast rod?
Mike
There should be no surprise that a slower rod being cast with an inappropriate style of cast will
cause issues due to the load being cast same way that a fast rod cast overhead might not work too
well. Take a thin walled fast taper blank and pendulum cast with it and before not too long the tip
will probably delaminate and break and it won't cast well either. Its a bit like saying my sports car
won't do 90MPH off road when a slower rod is cast wrongly then it will have problems handling
loads at the upper end of its rating. The rod is being stressed in a way it was never designed to be
stressed.
A rod should be rated according to its power and if we use it outside of its design intent then we
can expect probs. Technique is way more important than age or strength when casting. Even if
you were 50% of your previous young age strength you can with the right casting skill and correct
rod selection make very good casts that will keep you up there with most other guys.
Age and fitness does not come into the reckoning when rating a rod. You might not have quite the
hand speed and strength of a 25 year old but with good technique you will be able to put your lure
or lead out there no problems if you stay with rods in power rating that is sensible. For example I
am able to cast 4 to 5 1/4 oz. ok. If I have to move up to a rod capable of 6oz to 8 oz., I am going to
hate it and struggle, as apart from technique you need the strength to cope with the weight and
power of rods capable of casting these big payloads.

You are bang on with your analogy of the golf club. You can find a rod that will let you wring the
maximum out of it that does not kill you.
As to the drop lengths generally speaking yes but fast rods will only benefit from a longer drop if
the correct cast is employed.
Are you around In Montauk between the 14th Oct and the 31st Oct as I will have with me a GSB
1321M and a Zziplex Lite Bass and we could have a bit of a casting and fishing session one day/
night if you wanted to do that, You could then see whats possible for you with rods of this type. It
might help you I don't know. Juts pop me a PM if you would like to do that.
Mike
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post #98 of 105
9/18/14
Mike Oliver
offline
Joined: 6/2004
Posts: 10816
Location: uk
Sweetwater
You can still use a longer arc for a slower rod but you would not want to rush the cast overly
much. A slow in and faster out still works but it is relevant to the rods power speed and action. You
just wind them up a bit slower. Over done can see your lead or lure hitting the beach behind you
as the rod overloads.
Mike
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post #99 of 105

9/18/14
treblemaker
offline
Joined: 7/2010
Posts: 1655
Location: oceanside new york
Fast action rods will put you in the corner after a day or night dancing with big stripers or worse
big blue fish. Its a lot of wear and tear on your body. I like something in the middle. I feel that
being in the middle can give u both advantages sometimes lol. I have a thousand rods in my shop
that I built, fished, and hung up. Its never ending. This past spring, I was fishing with a CTS Vapor
Trail 10ft 3-6 all spring from local inlet jetties and south shore beaches and Montauk to Block
Island. I really liked the rod a lot. It had all the power I needed to cast heavy needles and light sp
minnows and, when the big fish hit, the plug hard the rod went into action. What I dont like about
the rod and this getting off topic but I am in the zone. What I dont like about the rod is the
thinness of the blank down in lower section of the rod. i fish with my hand on the fore grip. After a
few hours of catching fish my hands would cramp up. so after the season is over i am going to
strip it down and shape a cork fore-grip and sand it down and throw shrink wrap over it. I still like
the GSB series very much. The 120 1m is a great all around 10 surf rod for just about anything. It
has a moderate action that feels comfortable and very fun when the fish slam the plug.
Fish and let em go.....
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post #100 of 105
9/18/14
SurffisherMike
offline
Joined: 12/2007
Posts: 3179
Location: lower fairfield cnty, CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReelinRod
This has been a pretty good thread but I need to take exception to this; this thinking, IMNSHO is
backwards.
Slower actions work best with fast, short motions that load the rod deeply as soon as the hands
begin to move. The overhead Woodsman's Chop is about the fastest and shortest stroke one can
use for effective surfcasting and when properly executed, with a slow action rod rated for the
payload, the rod is nearly fully compressed before the lure begins to move.
The motions that work best for slow rods start so fast they have to end slower but the deep
compression easily soaks up that slowing while maintaining contact with the payload and still
accelerating the lure (again, assuming you are casting the proper weight).
Fast action rods when cast with a snap motion also unload but with the rod not being deeply
compressed, and the tip recovery being "fast", contact with the payload is lost and acceleration is
lost. Fast actions perform best with longer strokes, ideally beginning with body rotation moving
the rod before the arms and then hands, come in. These motions start slow and end faster; contact
with the payload is maintained and because the application of energy is a constant building
progression, acceleration is happening throughout the entire motion.
If you are "snap-casting" a fast action rod I can guarantee it is unloading before you release, to the
point of degrading if not destroying casting performance.
A faster rod will cast farther when cast correctly. As I say above, fast actions and quick motions
are not optimal. Stiffer butt, fast action rods respond to a longer stroke that starts slow and ends
faster (the hit). This is a catapult motion that uses the rod as a lever and with the proper drop, a
trebuchet type of acceleration as the lure swings out and away, on a much wider arc. The slow /
fast casting distance gap widens quickly employing a high-energy cast with a fast action rod
(which does not mean more effort). OTOH, using a refined casting motion with a slow rod often
has the rod collapse when casting in the mid to upper rating of the rod. Generally, employing high
energy casts with slow rods require you to move up in rod weight rating; slow[er] rods used in
tournament casting a bare 5oz sinker like the Zziplex Primo Syncho are excellent 8-N-Bait rods
using a fishing cast . . .
And most guys who move from a slow rod to a faster action aren't bending the new rod.
I like and fish more moderate rods. Spend a lot of time on a rock where you cant move your feet ,
the over head chop is the perfect cast for this situation and rod action. The info on the fast rod
unloading before the cast is complete is spot on , i see people do this all the time. You can feel a
rod load, if that isnt happening with your new fast action rod, your doing it wrong.I have cast and
built fast action rods and thats the way they perform, its a different cast. Same thing with the golf
swing and golf shafts, its not just the club head speed that matters on a golf shaft, its the kick
point, which can determine when the shaft will unload. If people are making a change from slow to
fast or fast to slow action rods they need to learn how to cast the new action before making a
judgement on the performance. A more moderate rods suits my fishing and i can cast it fine. There
is little doubt that used the right way fast action rods will cast further, its why distance casters use
them. If thats the type of rod you want to fish with then you need to learn how to cast it, its
different
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post #101 of 105
9/18/14
Bassdreamer
offline
Joined: 12/2010
Posts: 433
Location: Brooklyn
I learnt how to cast a fast action rod by taking it out and practicing with it. I could see that with the
kind of cast I was unwed to making with GSB's there was not much room for error and there were
some really poor casts if my timing and technique were not goos--they are less forgiving. I also
began to see that a longer and slower cast that accelerates near the end of the cast just seems to
load the rod better and produced more distance. I had not "knowledge" or "theory" about rod
construction, just my own observations and feedback from what felt right. I also just found myself
casting a slower action rod like the CTS Vapor Trail differently than faster action rods.
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post #102 of 105
9/18/14
Bassdreamer
offline
Joined: 12/2010
Posts: 433
Location: Brooklyn
I agree with Treblemaker about the Vapor Trail. I've been using the 11 ft in 1-3 and 3-6. I really like it
on a rock and find them to be sensitive, light and very versatile. I was in Montauk this last weekend
with it and was throwing 1 lune buck tails and 3 1/2 ounce pencil poppers and found the rod did a
good job with both. It also was spot on throwing 3 ounce metal lips on the South Side.
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post #103 of 105
9/18/14
crazybellringer
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Joined: 11/2008
Quote:
Guys who cast a fast action rod like they do a slow one will often say, "it doesn't 'feel' right" and
they are correct . . . because they are casting it backwards, in fast, out slow . . . The rod is never
getting fully loaded and since that initial snap speed can't be maintained through the casting
motion, whatever load was attained, is lost as the rod unloads before the release.
yep yep, let me know if your going to be around this week end fishing has been fun.
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post #104 of 105
1 hour, 10 minutes ago
mccandrj
online
Joined: 7/2011
Location: Holmdel, NJ
I don't know what this thread is about! I don't care for the most what rod I have, it comes second
nature to me with the feel of the rod and me. Nothing else, you are the most important part of the
system; system= rod, line reel and you, so stop whining and look at the system holistically, not
just the rod! You can have the best rod made, but if your not in tune with it, you suck. Seems like
you are helping the industry, by thinking it is the rod, in most casese it is the hurler.
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post #105 of 105
19 minutes ago
ez2cdave
online
Joined: 10/2007
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccandrj
I don't know what this thread is about ! . . . Seems like you are helping the industry, by thinking it
is the rod, in most cases, it is the hurler.
And SOMETIMES it's the guy REPLYING to a thread, after he says, " I don't know what this thread
is about ! ", and then offering all types of CRITICISM and "ADVICE" . . . LOL ! ! !
daughters." George "Gowge" Pope

post #106 of 114
14 hours, 31 minutes ago
marleymar
online
Joined: 10/2014
Post: 1
Let's make it simple.... fast/ stiff surf rod equal beginner . Slow to moderate action rods with strong
back bone equals more experience surf angler.
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post #107 of 114
ReelinRod
offline
Joined: 3/2002
Posts: 1603
Location: NE Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by marleymar
And that butt nugget is what you grunt out as your first post?
Here's my reply to your logic. . .
There are those who justifiably use slow rods because the tactics and techniques of a spot they
fish force it (e.g., perched on a rock).
Then there are those who use slow rods because they just haven't taken the training wheels off
and haven't bothered to learn how to cast or fight a fish . . .
Allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the US with amnesty and start the legal immigration
process
is like allowing a bank robber to go free and keep the money as long as he fills out a loan
application.
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post #108 of 114
4 hours ago
1dozenraw
online
Joined: 6/2005
Posts: 5695
Location: LOCALS ONLY unless you give me a plug... Charlestown, RI
Quote:
Originally Posted by marleymar
Post count....
0 for 1.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." Jack Johnson
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post #109 of 114
sytheteacher
online
Joined: 5/2014
Over the years I have been fishing with a slow action surf rod. Most of the time I throw chunk baits
and when I catch a ten pound plus fish that's going to put up a decent fight I can fish him with a
tighter drag and control the fish. Using a slow action rod I can't even turn the fish easier. I can with
a slow action rod make him run to the right or the left and even turn him so he runs in my
direction. IF and when i'm throwing plug or spoons they are usually three ounces or heavier. In
the past when I caught a monster on a fast action rod it was a great fight but I felt that I wasn't
controlling the fish. It was God guide this fish until I can crank it in. Everyone has different fishing
styles and strategies. You have to feel comfortable with the equipment and have confidence using
your equipment.
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post #110 of 114
BmR5979
offline
Joined: 2/2010
Location: L TOWN
Quote:
And that butt nugget is what you grunt out as your first post?+1
Here's my reply to your logic. . .
There are those who justifiably use slow rods because the tactics and techniques of a spot they
fish force it (e.g., perched on a rock).
Then there are those who use slow rods because they just haven't taken the training wheels off
and haven't bothered to learn how to cast or fight a fish . . .
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post #111 of 114

sytheteacher
online
Joined: 5/2014
I must admit that I still have training wheels on my surf cart. Still learning how to fish.
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post #112 of 114
fishhappy
online
Joined: 7/2012
Posts: 2203
Quote:

To describe actions, think of the leaf springs on the suspension of a truck. You have one that
arches back all the way to the frame, then several that are flat and open. The one with the arch
simply stores energy. Each one beyond it is designed to receive and release progressively more
force though a spring with a foot. The inner ones are designed to store power and release it
slowly. The outer ones store power and release it quickly. A moderate rod resembles the inner
spring with a smaller foot and longer spring and a fast rod acts like an outer spring- more foot
than spring.
If it is a spring, and I really want to load it up, and rocket a 4oz weight over the horizon, would I be
better off with a rod that bends more in the middle with the load, like a slow rod? Is it the more
bend, the more spring, the more energy in the final sling shot of the weight? Am I understanding
you both correctly on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBHarvey
no they aren't.
take two rods of the same length made from the same quantities of the same materials that deflect
the same amount under a given load and the faster actioned one is going to break first if you keep
upping the load. see my post above relating to mechanical advantage and decreasing the effective
length of the lever.
think about what you do when you want to break your line off - you point the rod towards it. a slow
rod flexing into the butt section is, in effect, doing the same thing, tranferrring the load down
towards the stronger section of the rod. a fast actioned rod cannot do this and is forced to bear
the full load up high, where it is weaker.
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post #113 of 114
52 minutes ago
akelly
offline
Joined: 2/2014
Posts: 30
It really comes down to preference and what kind of fishing you are doing, typically a slower rod
should throw less aerodynamic plugs and bait better since it won't cause them to tumble as much.
I have a s1 stealth that I fish for the majority of the year it throws eels, and swimmers extremely
well and with out much effort. More importantly than slow or fast I see that many people are
fishing a rod that is rated much to high for how they are fishing, that is the rod is not loading
enough for the weight of whatever it is that they are throwing. I am generally fishing open beaches
and find that a rod rated in the 1-4oz range does very well for the plugs I throw. If your rod isn't
loading enough your essentially doing all the work to get the plug out there. If your rod loads, the
rod is doing more of the work and you experience should be more pleasureable. I will say that
what a rod is "rated" is not something set in stone, these ratings vary greatly between rod
manufactures. The best way to find a rod you like being able to try something out. When you get
more experienced you will be able to pick a rod up and get a pretty good idea of whether it is right
for you.
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post #114 of 114
40 minutes ago
akelly
offline
Joined: 2/2014
Posts: 30
Keep in mind there are lure/weight ratings oz.

Action ratings. slow, moderate, fast etc.
Power, medium, heavy, light etc.
One manufacturer may rate a 10ft rod blank -moderate action 1-4oz, medium power. And another
manufacturer could rate a 10ft rod the same way and they could be entirely different animals that
is why one can't buy a rod on ratings alone feel is everything. of course you have may have a lot
of experience with a particular manufacturer and know what their ratings mean to you, but I still
recommend being able to physically hold the rod or blank before purchase.
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1 second ago
ez2cdave
offline
Joined: 10/2007
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by akelly
I still recommend being able to physically hold the rod or blank before purchase.
Absolutely . . . If possible, I like to be "hands-on" with as many examples of the same rod or blank,
before choosing the one with the "magic" . . . "Magic" is something I can't describe, but when you
handle a bunch of "identical" products, it becomes apparent as something in the "feel" of it. Some
people may think I'm "crazy", but the evidence is there . . . Try it yourselves !
daughters." - George "Gowge" Pope
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Fast Vs Slow Surf Rods

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Fast vs Slow Surf Rods -- what's the point?

Location: Puerto Rico

plays well with others

Location: jerzey shaw

Location: Long Island N.Y.

Location: Long Island NY

Posts: 1796, Reviews: 1

Originally Posted by redhawk19

Posts: 5413, Reviews: 8

Great information so far in this thread.

Location: Upstate NY (wish it was MV)

Posts: 5413, Reviews: 8

Posts: 4729, Reviews: 2

Location: Southeastern Massachusetts

Posts: 8638, Reviews: 1

Location: The Future

i like a medium heavy rod, with fast action.

Post a ReplyStart a New Thread

plays well with others

Location: jerzey shaw

What does fast action mean?

plays well with others

Location: jerzey shaw

Here's what I'm understanding:

Posts: 23718, Reviews: 1

Location: On the shelf

Posts: 23718, Reviews: 1

Location: On the shelf

14 Year Old Fisherman

Posts: 3530, Reviews: 2

Posts: 5413, Reviews: 8

Posts: 23718, Reviews: 1

Location: On the shelf

Location: Brick/Seaside Park, NJ

Posts: 23718, Reviews: 1

Location: On the shelf

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Posts: 5413, Reviews: 8

Location: north jersey

Location: a little North and West of Boston

prevent hooks from opening up puncture holes and shacking free.

Waaay too many!

Location: Way out in the sticks.

plays well with others

Location: jerzey shaw

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Posts: 1053, Reviews: 4

Location: Staten Island

Location: Long Island, NY

Posts: 230, Reviews: 1

Location: Near water.

Location: Santa Rosa , Ca

GLoomis PR 844C 7` Med Fast Action 8-17# 1/4-5/8 oz.

yes im confuse or lost

plays well with others

Location: jerzey shaw

Location: Near water.

For perch why not?

plays well with others

Location: jerzey shaw

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Maybe, if we look at a different angle it might help.