Transcript Day 2

CONFIDENTIAL
FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY
INVESTIGATIVE HEARING
BEFORE JUSTICE MAJOR HARDING
VOLUME II
DATE:
Wednesday December 3, 2014
TIME:
Commenced at 9:20 a.m.

Concluded at 4:10 p.m.
REPORTED BY:
Kimberly S. Bartholomew
Court Reporter
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

2894-A REMINGTON GREEN LANE
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32308
(850)878-2221
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APPEARANCES:
Justice Major Harding

Hearing Officer
Ausley & McMullen
123 South Calhoun Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
Carolyn A. Egan, General Counsel
Panel Member
Florida State University
Suite 211, Westcott Building
222 South Copeland Street
Rachel Bukanc, Ed.D.
Assistant Dean/Director
Panel Member
282 Champions Ways
A4117 University Center
Robyn Blank Jackson
Associate General Counsel
Panel Member
Suite 424, Westcott Building
222 South Copeland Street
Tony Bajoczky, Jr., Esquire
Panel Member
Ausley & McMullen
123 South Calhoun Street
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GORDON & REES, LLP

W.M. David Cornwell, Sr., Esquire
Benjamin Levine, Esquire
The Pinnacle Building
3455 Peachtree Road, Suite 1500
Atlanta, Florida 30326
Advisors to Respondent
HUTCHINSON, BLACK & COOK, LLC
Baine Kerr, Esquire
John Clune, Esquire
921 Walnut Street, Suite 200
Boulder, Colorado 80302
Advisors to Complainant
Complainant
Respondent
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I N D E X
WITNESS
PAGE
Witness Four
Direct Examination by Justice Major Harding
102
Cross Examination by Complainant
106
Cross Examination by Respondent
109
Redirect Examination by Justice Major Harding
110
Recross Examination by Complainant
112
Witness Five
10
115
11
119
12
Officer Dinorah Harris
13
Direct Examination by Complainant
124
14
135
15
Witness Six
16
Direct Examination on behalf of Complainant
142
17
Cross Examination on behalf of Respondent
148
18
Redirect Examination by Complainant
148
20
150
21
157
23
159
24
166
19
22
25
95
Officer Jason Newlin
Direct Examination by Respondent
173
193
4
5
Respondent
203
6
7
CLOSING STATEMENTS
PAGE
By Complainant
206
By Respondent
208
10
11
12
INDEX OF EXHIBITS
13
(Exhibits retained by Justice Harding)
14
CLAIMANT'S
DESCRIPTION
15
Exhibit 10
Questions to Respondent
16
(to be marked)
PAGE
203
17
18
19
RESPONDENT'S
DESCRIPTION
PAGE
20
Exhibit 6
Photograph
135
21
Exhibit 7
Photograph
137
22
Exhibit 8
Photograph
139
23
Exhibit 9
Statement of Respondent
200
24
25
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
214
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The following proceedings were had:
* * * * * * * * * *
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:
5
6
7
We have two University witnesses
left this morning.

JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:
get them on the phone?
11
Wait.
Should we get them on
the phone so they will be advised, too?
10
Okay.
MR. KERR:
You're here.
Do you want me to
Yeah, they might as well listen in
to this.
12
MS. EGAN:
13
MS. JACKSON:
14
MS. EGAN:
15
MS. JACKSON:
Thank you.
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COMPLAINANT:
Hello.
17
MS. JACKSON:
Good morning, it's Robyn.
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Yeah, she should hear.

Okay.
Thanks, Robyn.
How
are you?
19
COMPLAINANT:
Good.
How are you?
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MS. JACKSON:
Good.
We are just going to talk
21
about scheduling.
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aware.
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Wanted to make sure you all were
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
we going to go, Robyn?
25
MS. JACKSON:
Okay.
Okay.
Help us.
Where are
Well, we have two
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University witnesses left this morning.
Witness Four by phone and then we have Witness Five
who should be here in person.
We have
After that we would move into Complainant's
witnesses starting with Officer Harris, continuing
with Witness Six,
7
8
9
10
and
I think that puts us somewhere around early

afternoon.
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:
Okay.
Take a break for lunch.
And we
11
can get into Respondent's witnesses this afternoon
12
in the order that they were given to us which is
13
Ms. Parmalee, Officer Angulo, Officer Osborn,
14
Investigator Newlin, Mr. Roberts, and
15
Dr. Goldberger.
16
Officer Angulo, Investigator Newlin,
17
Mr. Roberts, and Mr. Goldberger will all be by
18
phone.
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
Good.
20
(A brief discussion was held off the record.)
21
MR. CORNWELL:
You indicated yesterday that
22
you were calling Respondent as a University
23
witness.
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25
Are you not doing that?
MS. JACKSON:
I don't know if I indicated
that.
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MR. CORNWELL:
be the case yesterday.
last.
witness?
I thought I understood that to

Someone said he would be
But you're not calling him as a University
MS. JACKSON:
He wasn't listed as a University
witness.
he has a right to be heard.
normal circumstances, be heard last.
9
10
11
He is the Respondent in the matter and so
MS. BUKANC:
Yeah.
And he would, in
That's when the Judge
would question him would be last.

MS. JACKSON:
My best guess, seeing how we've
12
seen the witnesses progress so far, I think we can
13
probably get through Officer Angulo today.
14
But there is people with more gray hair than
15
me in the room, and I would also be interested in
16
your estimates on that.
17
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MR. KERR:
I would think at least through
Officer Angulo, maybe more.
19
MS. JACKSON:
20
MR. CORNWELL:
Okay.
We will remain flexible and
21
dynamic as we go through the process.
We do not
22
believe that the University has or can carry the
23
burden of meeting the preponderance of evidence
24
based on Complainant's testimony.
25
establish any evidence to support a sexual assault
She did not
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1
2
let alone a preponderance standard.

As a result, recognizing that we don't have
the burden, we may adjust our witness list
accordingly.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
MS. JACKSON:
You both listed Officer Harris so our plan was
I'm sorry, one more thing.
to make her available for examination to both of
you this morning so that she would not have to be
10
recalled if that's agreeable.
11
MR. CORNWELL:
12
MS. JACKSON:
13
MR. CORNWELL:
14
MR. KERR:
15
MS. JACKSON:
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
18
I understood them to withdraw.

Then they put her back.
Okay.
We withdrew the withdrawal.

Okay.
Are we good?
Very well.
If we're ready
to proceed let's -MS. JACKSON:
If you will go downstairs, we'll
19
give you a call, and then we'll get the witness on
20
the phone.
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22
JUSTICE HARDING:
Are we getting Witness Four
on the line?
23
MS. BUKANC:
Once we're settled, yes.
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JUSTICE HARDING:
25
(A break was taken off the record from
Okay.
Off the record.
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2
9:30 a.m. to 9:45 a.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
Just for the
record I think it would be appropriate that
Mr. Levine has been -- is in the conference room
and without objection, but that is providing he
does not confer with or have any contact with
Respondent or Mr. Cornwell at this point.
And also, Witness Four, my name is Major
Harding, and I have been designated as the Hearing
10
Officer in this case.
11
that are around the table to please introduce
12
themselves so that you will know who is being --
13
who is here.
14
And I'm going to ask those
This matter is being taken down by a court
15
reporter.
16
taken down by a court reporter.
17
So anything I say or you say will be
And I will begin with Ms. Egan as far as
18
introductions, and we'll go around the table so
19
you'll know who is present.
20
WITNESS FOUR:
21
MS. EGAN:
22
23
24
25
Okay.
Carolyn Egan, University General
Counsel.
MR. BAJOCZKY:
Tony Bajoczky.
I'm a lawyer
that works with Justice Harding.

MS. BUKANC:
Rachel Bukanc, advisor to the
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3
4
panel.
MR. KERR:
Baine Kerr, one of Complainant's
lawyers.
MR. LEVINE:
Benjamin Levine.
I'm an attorney
with the Law Firm Gordon & Rees, and I work with
David Cornwell who is Respondent's advisor.
RESPONDENT:
MR. CORNWELL:
Respondent.
Good morning.
My name is David
Cornwell, advisor to Respondent.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
Now, I understand you are a student, is that
12
correct, Witness Four?
13
WITNESS FOUR:
14
JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
Yes.
And as a student you have
15
the opportunity, and you may choose not to, or you
16
may choose to answer any and all of the questions
17
that are posed by me in regard to this matter.
18
And also I want to affirm that this is a
19
private matter, private and confidential, and that
20
there are to be no communications by you or anyone
21
else to anyone regarding this matter.
22
Do you understand that?
23
WITNESS FOUR:
24
JUSTICE HARDING:
25
Yes.
And, lastly, I would like to
remind you that providing false information is a

102
violation of the Student Conduct Code.
2
3
And I would ask do you agree to tell the truth

in this proceeding?
WITNESS FOUR:
JUSTICE HARDING:
6
7
8
9
Yes.
Very well.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q
Now, you understand that this is a matter in
which Respondent has been charged with having sex
10
without consent, and I want to inquire of you what you
11
know in that regard.
12
It's my understanding that you were with
13
Complainant on the night of December the 6th and the
14
morning of December the 7th of 2012, and that you went
15
to Potbelly's.
16
17
18
And I would like for you to tell me what you

know in regard to that incident on that evening.
A
Okay.
We went out to Pots.
We were in our
19
dorm rooms before and like my friend, Ashley, drove us
20
there.
21
involved.
22
We get to Pots and, yes, there was drinking

We were there with a couple friends.
And we were hanging out inside for a while and
23
then we just like every time -- and I had to go to the
24
bathroom, and we went together.
25
leave someone.
Obviously, we don't
And when we went to the bathroom we went
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out back.
There is a bathroom inside, but usually the
one out back is bigger so we went to that one.
It was kind of strange because on our way out
someone kind of targeted her specifically like there is
a lot of people surrounding us and she was targeted,
someone grabbed her wrist.
but they like pull her away.
8
9
It wasn't like a hard grab,
So automatically I went with her and it was a

boy and he started talking to her.
And I was like,
10
okay, I'm going to go to the bathroom.
11
stay right here, like don't move anywhere, that kind of
12
thing.
13
So I went to the bathroom.
Like can you
I come back out of
14
the bathroom, she is still standing there talking.
Then
15
he asked if he can have her number, and she looks at me
16
and I was like if you want to like you can give him your
17
number, and that's up to you.
18
number and then we -- I like pulled her away and we went
19
back inside.
And then she gave him her
20
We were inside for a little bit longer and
21
then at one point she showed me her phone and it was
22
like come outside and it was from a number that like
23
wasn't saved or anything.
24
It was like -- I'm sorry, there was a number
25
like what?
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It wasn't saved.
Okay.
Like at the top it was like show contacts, you
know.
Okay.
But there was no -- like it was a new number.
Okay.
She asked me if she should go or not, and I
9
10
said that's up to you.
And after that I don't know
who --
11
She walked outside and I know she tried to
12
call me like but the calls didn't go through.
13
know like who obviously she went with or what happened
14
on from that.
15
16
Okay.
And when was the next time you had
contact with her?
17
The next morning.
18
Okay.
19
I don't
And did the two of you or did she have,
to your knowledge, anything to drink that night?
20
Yes.
21
And how much was that?
22
I mean, she is not one to be a big drinker.
23
We drank a little bit before we left and then she had
24
maybe like one -- a drink or two while we were there.
25
And I know she took a shot from someone.
But it wasn't
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very much for her to be -- she seemed fine.
seem intoxicated like she was walking holding herself
up.
4
5
6
Okay.
She didn't
And when you talk about a shot, what do
you mean by that?

A
Like a little cup.
It wasn't like full
alcohol -- it probably had a little alcohol and like
juice with it or some sort of thing.
Okay.
All right.
And you say she showed you
10
her telephone and there was a message on that that said
11
come outside?
12
Uh-huh.
13
And she inquired of you what she should do?
14
Right.
15
And you indicated what?
16
I said it's up to you, like if you want to you
17
can go.
18
And she left and went out?
19
Uh-huh.
20
21
JUSTICE HARDING:
WITNESS FOUR:
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
25
Thank you.
Hold just
a moment.
22
24
Okay.
Okay.
Counsel, do you have
questions?
MS. BUKANC:
It goes to the Complainant and
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then --
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. KERR:
Yes.
Yes.
And Complainant is prepared
to ask those.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Complainant, you may inquire.
COMPLAINANT:
8
9
All right.
Okay.
Very well.
One second.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
10
Hey, Witness Four.
11
Hi.
12
Okay.
13
quick.
14
those texts I like walked out of the bar and we never
15
saw each other again, correct?
16
17
So just to clarify something really
You're not saying that right after I showed you
We -- yeah, you showed me the text and then
you went outside.
18
19
friendship?
20
21
close.
22
friends through everything.
23
24
25
Okay.
How would you characterize our
We have a good friendship.
We're pretty
I mean, we met freshman year and we stayed

So it's a good friendship.
Okay.
How well would you say that you know
Probably as close as your family would.
me?
We
107
spent so many like nights together, we lived basically
in each other dorms.
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
Okay.
Like always together.
Before the night of December 6th did we
ever go out to bars or other parties together?

A
I want to say no.
We didn't usually go out --
you weren't one to go out much.

Q
Okay.
What was your own reaction when you
heard that I had been raped?

A
I was terrified.
I was so scared I like
10
didn't know how that happened.
11
confused, like shocked.
12
13
14
Okay.
I was just really
When you saw me later that morning how
would you describe my demeanor?

A
You were shaking, you were crying, you had
15
been throwing up.
16
completely from anything I've ever seen.
17
stable, you just -- I don't know, when you tried to even
18
talk to me you could barely talk.
19
20
21
Okay.
You were like -- it just had changed
And what did you say to me at that
time?
A
I asked you what happened, like how did you
22
get home, that kind of thing from you.
23
it was.
24
25
You were not
If you knew who
If you had any ideas about that.

Okay.
When did I tell you that I knew who the
man was?
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It was after you had seen him like on campus
you said you texted me and you were like I know who it
is.
made eye contact with someone and you got the feeling,
and you said he knew, you knew, and you just made that
connection.
And I was like what happened?
Okay.
When you first heard the name
Respondent did that name mean anything to you?
Not at all.
10
Okay.
11
And you said you had
Did we stay in close contact after
December 7th, 2012?
12
Did you and I?
13
Yes.
14
Yes.
15
And how would you describe any changes in me
16
17
after the night of December 7th, 2012?

A
Well, we used to do stuff together a lot more
18
I felt like because you kind of became more isolated in
19
your bed, like you just didn't want to go do much of
20
anything.
21
time, like hang out a lot more.
22
started isolating yourself, you didn't want to go do
23
much, you just kind of stayed alone.
24
25
Before that we used to go shopping all the

But you kind of just
Since that night have we talked about what
happened?
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Yes.
And how would you describe those conversations
3
4
over the past two years?

A
I mean, we tried to talk about the situation.
Like we wish, obviously, it didn't happen.
to like stay strong for each other kind of thing.
talk about what happened, obviously, to work through it;
but, then again, that's not all we always talk about,
like we have friends other than that.
10
We
But it gets a little emotional when we do talk
11
about it still to this day.
12
something that's been hard on us so.
13
But we tried
So I know it's been
So in the past two years have I ever given you
14
the impression that I in any way consented to any of the
15
sexual acts committed by Respondent that night?
16
No.
17
And have you ever had any reason to doubt my
18
19
account that I was raped by Respondent?

A
20
21
No.
COMPLAINANT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
23
25
I think that's all.
Thank you.
22
24
Okay.
Thank you.
Respondent.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
Do you recall being interviewed by the State

110
Attorney on or around November 18th, 2013?
2
3
Okay.
You were honest during that interview,
true?
Yes.
You tried to be accurate, true?
Yes.
You tried to be complete, true?
10
Yes.
11
RESPONDENT:
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
13
Harding.
All right.
This is Major
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
16
17
That's all, Your Honor.
Excuse me, Witness Four.
14
15
don't remember the exact date; but, yes, I was.
4
5
I was interviewed by a State Attorney.
After the incident did you call Complainant or
did she call you?
18
Like that night?
19
Yes.
20
She had tried to call me but I never got any
21
calls.
22
morning I didn't receive anything.
23
24
25
Like on my phone like I showed her the next
Okay.
But she said that she had tried to call
Yeah.
I looked at her phone and looked at
you?
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mine, and hers, she showed it like rang for 20 seconds
or whatever.
Okay.
And you indicated that she had contact
with this person within Potbelly's and that he gave --
they exchanged numbers or she gave her number.
6
7
8
9
10
11
Are you aware of any interaction with

Complainant with anyone else at Potbelly's?
A
That's what I don't know.
We were together
most of the night; but, then again, I could have been

turned one way, she could have been turned another.
When she gave her number to someone by the
12
bathroom I don't know exactly who it was.
I didn't look
13
at them that hard, I didn't -- I wasn't talking to them
14
personally.
15
attention to.
So it's not something I paid close
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
MR. KERR:
Okay.
Thank you very much.
If we're through I would like to
18
confer just for a second about a couple possible
19
further questions.
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
Certainly.
You may do so.
21
If you will continue on the phone, please.
22
WITNESS FOUR:
23
Okay.
24
10:00 a.m. to 10:04 a.m.)
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
All right.
Complainant, do
112
you have questions?
COMPLAINANT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
4
5
6
7
Just a few.
Thank you.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Before the night of December 6th would you say
that you have ever seen me drunk?
No.
Okay.
10
Yes.
Would you know me as someone to ever
just go home with random guys from a bar?
11
Not at all.
12
Okay.
And then pertaining to the text that
13
you saw on my phone, can you talk about how the next
14
morning whenever we were -- you told me that there were
15
texts on my phone, how we looked for those and they
16
weren't there?
17
Yeah.
We like looked through your phone,
18
obviously, because I thought I saw your phone and it
19
said that.
20
any texts saying anything at all.
21
that it was either deleted or I don't know what happened
22
to it.
23
So we looked through and there was no longer
Okay.
So it was just weird
And, lastly, would you say that your
24
memory was better when you gave your interview to the
25
State Attorney's Office in November of 2013 than it is

113
today?
I mean, I would say it would be better then
than now, yes.
and a half ago when it happened.
COMPLAINANT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
Respondent, do you have anymore questions?
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
10
It also would have been better a year
Okay.
That's all.
Thank you.
Thank you.
No, Your Honor.

Very well.
Thank you very
much.
11
Anything else that we need?
12
You may be excused.
13
WITNESS FOUR:
14
MS. BUKANC:
15
going to bring him in.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Now we have Witness Five.
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
Off the record.
18
10:06 a.m. to 10:14 a.m.)
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
20
Wait a minute.
21
MS. EGAN:
22
phone running.
23
24
25
Yeah.
JUSTICE HARDING:
We're
All right.
Witness Five --
We've still got to get the
All right.
The next witness
is Witness Five.
Witness Five, my name is Major Harding, and
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I'm the Hearing Officer in this case.
going to ask those around the table to introduce
themselves so you'll know who you're talking to
during the course of this time.
Ms. Egan.
MS. EGAN:
7
8
I'm Carolyn Egan.
MR. BAJOCZKY:
Justice Harding.
10
MS. BUKANC:
11
MS. JACKSON:
13
14
General Counsel.
MR. KERR:
Baine Kerr, advisor for
Complainant.
16
MR. CORNWELL:
19
I work with
I'm Robyn Jackson, Associate
RESPONDENT:
18
Tony Bajoczky.
Rachel Bukanc, advising Harding.
15
17
I'm the
University General Counsel.
12
And I'm
I'm Respondent.
I'm David Cornwell, advisor to
Respondent.
JUSTICE HARDING:
And this is the court
reporter.
20
Now, you are a student at FSU?
21
WITNESS FIVE:
22
JUSTICE HARDING:
Yes, sir.
And as a student you have
23
the opportunity to decline to answer any questions
24
that are asked of you as well as you have the right
25
to give an answer to any of those questions.

115
And I would also advise you that these
proceedings are private and confidential, and that
they're not -- what happens in here in your
presence is not to be disclosed to anyone at any
time.
And I hope you understand that.
WITNESS FIVE:
Yes, sir.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
Also, I would
like to remind you that providing false information
is a violation of the Student Conduct Code.
10
11
And I would ask, do you agree to tell the

truth in this proceeding?
12
WITNESS FIVE:
13
14
Yes, sir.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
15
All right.
And your name is Witness Five?
16
Yes, sir.
17
And you understand that we're here in
18
reference to a matter that took place on December the
19
6th or 7th of 2012 wherein Respondent is alleged to have
20
had non-consensual sex with Complainant?
21
Yes, sir.
22
All right.
Now, you, I believe, were with the
23
group with someone at Potbelly's on the night of
24
December the 6th; is that correct?
25
Yes, sir.
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1
2
Okay.
Now, if you'd keep your voice up
because the folks on the phone have to hear you as well.
Okay.
Who did you go to Potbelly's with?
I went there originally with just like my
friends, not Complainant and not any girls, just a few
of my friends.
lot of people get there.
And we went there around 9:30 before a
Okay.
10
Probably around 10:30 or so.
11
And when did you see Complainant there?
come later just because the girls just come later.
12
Okay.
13
I have no idea.
14
Okay.
15
I'm assuming so.
16
I'm sorry?
17
I'm assuming so, yeah.
18
19
20
They usually
And was Respondent there?
You did not --
I didn't know who he
was before at that time.

Q
And you didn't -- you did not see him or
recognize him from that?
21
No.
22
Did you see Complainant drinking alcohol?
23
Yes.
I personally gave her probably two or
24
three shots, and anything after that is all speculation.
25
I didn't see her specifically drink anything else.

But,
117
I mean, it might have happened.
Did she appear to you to be in any way
intoxicated?
In no way was she -- when I saw her and from
what I remember in no way was she like too drunk or
anything like that; but, she definitely seemed like she
had a few drinks.
And what made you think that?
She was just -- you know how people get, they
10
are just, you know, laughing, fun, take the edge off,
11
she is not shy and things like that.
12
Did you ever describe her as flirty?
13
Yes, I did in my interview.
14
But you never saw her out of control in any
16
No way.
17
Did you know her before that night?
18
Yes.
15
I did.
way?
No, sir.
We met probably the second day of school
19
my freshman year.
20
his -- the girl he was talking to was her roommate.
21
then we just kind of met because just running into each
22
other and things like that.
23
24
25
Okay.
She -- My roommate at that time,

And
Now, when was the last time you saw her
at Potbelly's that night?

A
I don't know exactly the time because, like

118
I -- I didn't know at the time that I was -- that I
should have been remembering things about that night.
So I don't know what time.
Probably maybe
around 11:00, 11:30, something like that.
I'm pretty
sure I saw her in the dance floor in the middle of
Potbelly's, the inside.
And who -- was she dancing with someone?
I said this in my interview, too.
really know specifically.
I don't
I don't even know if I saw
10
her dancing with someone, but I think I did.
11
I said, I couldn't tell you for sure because it was so
12
long ago.
13
But, like
I remember seeing her at one point and just
14
saying -- remember thinking, oh, hey, there is
15
Complainant, and then that was probably the last time.
16
17
Okay.
After that evening when was the next
time that you saw her --
18
Witness Four called me --
19
-- or had contact with her?
20
Witness Four called me at 8:00 in the morning
21
and told me to come up to Complainant's room, and I did.
22
And she -- it was just me and her and Witness Four in
23
the room.
And that was the first time I saw her.
24
And what -- what happened then?
25
I had a test at 9:00 so I couldn't stay at

119
that moment.
would not let me touch her because -- I didn't know what
happened, obviously, at first.
and she would not let me touch her, she wouldn't let me
near her.
6
7
But she was crying her eyes out.
Then I had to leave to go to my test.
And I
came back and we talked about the whole thing then.

JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. BAJOCZKY:
Okay.
Anything further?
Nothing.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
MS. BUKANC:
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
Anything further?
No.
Complainant, do you have any
questions?
14
COMPLAINANT:
15
16
And I went to go hug her
I didn't know why, and then she told me.
13
She
Yes, a few.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
17
Hey, Witness Five.
18
Hey.
19
Okay.
Hey.
It has been suggested by Respondent
20
that I met him in the bar, left with him shortly
21
thereafter, went home with him and had consensual sex
22
with him.
23
Based upon your knowledge of me, would it have
24
been unusual for me to leave a bar like that with a man
25
I had just met?

120
Very unusual.
Okay.
On the night of December 6th, 2012 was
I acting any different than I would normally act?
No.
Did you ever see me talking with Respondent?
No, I did not.
When you saw me the next day in my dorm room
8
9
how would you describe my demeanor?

A
You were shaken up.
You were definitely
10
something had gone wrong, something had happened to you.
11
Like I said before, you were crying your eyes out.
12
would not let me touch you.
You
13
And I told you that --
14
Definitely not something --
15
Oh, sorry.
16
Definitely not something for what one would be
17
faking it.
18
Had you ever seen me like that before?
19
No, I did not -- have not.
20
I told you then that I had been raped?
21
Yes.
22
And I told you that I had told the man to
23
stop?
24
Yes.
25
Was I ever unsure if I had been raped?

121
No, you were not.
You were unsure of exactly
everything that happened and how you got there, but you
were sure you were raped.
Okay.
Since that time have I ever said
anything that is inconsistent with my initial report
that I was raped?
No.
Did you know who Respondent was in December of
9
10
No.
2012?
A
No, I did not.
11
COMPLAINANT:
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
13
MS. JACKSON:
14
we've lost Mr. Levine.
15
MR. LEVINE:
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
MS. EGAN:
18
MR. LEVINE:
19
MS. JACKSON:
20
Okay.
That's all.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Give me just a second.
I think
I need to dial him back in.
I'm here.
Mr. Levine, are you there?
He said he is there.
I'm here.
Okay.
Thank you.
Sorry about
that.
21
JUSTICE HARDING:
Good.
22
Respondent, do you have any questions?
23
MR. CORNWELL:
24
JUSTICE HARDING:
25
Can we confer?
Yes.
122
10:24 a.m. to 10:28 a.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
3
4
5
please.
All right.
Respondent, do you have any
questions?
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
8
9
Let's go back on the record,
No further questions, Your Honor.

Very well.
Anything
further?
MR. KERR:
Nothing further.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
appreciate your being here.
12
MS. BUKANC:
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
14
MS. BUKANC:
15
MR. KERR:
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
MR. KERR:
18
MS. JACKSON:
We
You may be excused.
Now we have Officer Harris next.
She.
Is he -She is downstairs.
But we need to switch out.

Yes, you need to switch.
So Complainant can be up here.

I don't have a problem with this
19
logistically, but you have also called Officer
20
Harris.
So then we would switch you back.
21
MR. KERR:
Okay.
22
MS. JACKSON:
Unless you want to go ahead and
23
allow him to question her first, and then we'll
24
only have to do the switch once.
25
MR. KERR:
I think probably it's our witness
123
at this time and --
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:
That's good.
All right.
We'll see you later.
If you all will go ahead and
come with me, we'll go down to 114 real quick.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Take your material with you.
MS. JACKSON:
MR. CORNWELL:
10
MS. JACKSON:
11
JUSTICE HARDING:
12
However you want to do it.

I'm going to stay in the room.
You're staying up here.
Off the record.
13
10:29 a.m. to 10:38 a.m.)
14
JUSTICE HARDING:
15
you ready to proceed?
16
COMPLAINANT:
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
19
20
21
Okay.
Counsel, Complainant, are
Yes, Your Honor.

All right.
Let me first,
your name, please?

OFFICER HARRIS:
Yes.
Officer Dinorah Harris
with the FSU Police Department.

JUSTICE HARDING:
And you understand what
22
these proceedings are about and understand that
23
they are confidential and private, and you should
24
not discuss these matters with anyone else; is that
25
correct?
124
OFFICER HARRIS:
JUSTICE HARDING:
Yes, sir, I do.

And you also understand that
it is important that you tell the truth, and do you
promise to tell the truth in these proceedings?
OFFICER HARRIS:
JUSTICE HARDING:
COMPLAINANT:
11
Very well.
Complainant, you
have questions?
10
I do.
Yes.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Okay.
Looking at Tab 3, the 911 call was
12
placed at 3:22 a.m.; is this correct to your
13
understanding?
14
Let's see.
Compared to what was on our CAD
15
system at the time, let's see.
16
was reported was 3:22 a.m.
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
OFFICER HARRIS:
19
And 46 seconds to be exact.

3:22, excuse me?
Yes, sir.
3:22:46 seconds at
that time.
20
21
It states that when it
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
BY COMPLAINANT:
22
And you arrived at Kellum Dorm at 3:28 a.m.?
23
Let's see here.
24
It's okay.
25
I don't know exactly what time, but it is in
I apologize.
125
our CAD system as to when the officer arrives.
documented, however, I do not have it in my
documentation today.
4
5
MR. KERR:
We've got that.
BY COMPLAINANT:
Yeah, we have it.
Okay.
Yeah, it shows here.
Okay.
10
So that's fine.
11
12
13
It is
And then you stayed with me until 5:07 a.m.

Is that also not in your -A
Let's see.
I don't believe I -- I don't know
14
exactly what time I left you.
15
transported you to TMH.
I do know that I
16
Okay.
Could you just look at that --
17
Absolutely.
18
-- and confirm that?
19
It might have been that I completed the call
20
and --
21
MR. KERR:
I'm sorry, what --
22
MS. EGAN:
For the record, it's Bate's
23
24
25
number -JUSTICE HARDING:
What is this you're
referring to?
126
1
2
MS. EGAN:
the bottom right just so everyone can follow along?
3
4
Can you read the number that's in
OFFICER HARRIS:
A
It's FSU-000012.
Absolutely.
And I believe what you're
looking at, or you're requesting me to look at, is
5071912, 7 of 12, unit 432 which was my call number at
the time.
The code that was entered was completed.
And
I believe when it says completed that might have been
10
when I completed either my report writing -- I can't
11
state a hundred percent if that's when I left your side
12
or if that's when I completed my report because we have
13
to call out when we've -- you know, we're on paperwork,
14
when we've left the hospital, and when I completed the
15
call completely.
16
17
So I believe that's more accurate -BY COMPLAINANT:
18
Okay.
19
-- due to the time frame.
20
But to say one
hundred percent --
21
Okay.
That's fine.
22
I'll pass that back.
23
Thank you.
24
You're welcome.
25
Okay.
And can you kind of talk about how I
127
was or how I was acting?
demeanor was like whenever you arrived?
How I was acting or what my
Being it has been two years and many incidents
later, from that particular early morning in my report I
don't -- Let's see.
demeanor.
I don't believe I indicated your
However, I do remember -- Just from my
experience you seem to remember people that you have to
ask them the question multiple times or they respond in
10
a relatively normal manner.
11
I don't recall having to ask you repeatedly
12
three or four times until I received a response.
13
were having a conversation.
14
We
Considering the incident a fairly normal
15
conversation I would think as far as asking a question
16
and you responding.
17
Okay.
In your report you say that I was
18
having a hard time keeping things in order of how they
19
happened.
20
explain what you meant by that or --
Can you -- can you try to explain that or
21
Let's see.
Let me find where you are.
22
Okay.
23
You don't have the report or my supplement?
24
No.
25
Let's see.
I don't have it marked.
I do know that I said that, but I
128
want to find exactly so I can --
Okay.
one, do you?
That's the report so.
Page number?
6
7
MS. EGAN:
12
MR. KERR:
It's the second paragraph.
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
It's the second paragraph.

MR. CORNWELL:
I'm sorry, we'll need a Bate's
number for --
15
OFFICER HARRIS:
16
this is from my --
17
MR. KERR:
18
Oh, okay.
If you can tell me the paragraph.
13
14
It looks like she has the same page
COMPLAINANT:
10
11
Oh, page 4 of 6.
here.
8
9
It's on FSU -- oh, you don't have this
Okay.
Okay.
This is completely --
Seventeen.
So it's going to be about, it appears,
19
maybe the fifth line down.
20
remembering what exactly happened and in what order they
21
happened.
22
She was having a hard time
Just question/answers.
You might have been
23
all over the place.
You know, that's what it says.
24
Because that was probably just -- you were having -- you
25
had probably indicated that you were having a hard time

129
knowing what order --
BY COMPLAINANT:
Okay.
-- the events took place.
Is this typical with trauma?
It can be.
Okay.
To my training and experience, yes, it is
9
10
11
12
That's fine.
common.
Q
Okay.
How clear was I that it had been a
non-consensual encounter?
A
Just what I indicated in my report, that you
13
didn't know at the time -- or, I'm sorry, consensual
14
encounter?
15
Non-consensual encounter.
16
Okay.
17
18
19
question?
Q
Okay.
I'm sorry, can you rephrase your
I apologize.
It's okay.
I'll rephrase it.
Okay.
want me to rephrase it or just restate it?
20
You can restate it, that's fine.
21
Okay.
22
Do you
How clear was I that it had been
non-consensual?
23
It would just be what was in my report.
24
Okay.
25
So if -ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
130
1
2
3
And I'll go ahead and ask it.
How clear was I
that I told him to stop and he wouldn't?

A
I believe -- Let's see.
Okay.
Basically that when your -- when in the
incident of having penis to vagina intercourse that you
did tell him to stop.
indicate how many times or anything like that, but that
you did at one time.
Okay.
You didn't indicate -- I didn't
And can you go over what I said
10
happened on the bed in the apartment, or what you
11
reported?
12
Let's see.
Indicated or what I placed in my
13
report was that you remembered being on the floor, but
14
that it wasn't at the bar.
15
you know, on the floor of someone's apartment.
16
the next thing that you knew you were on the bed and
17
that's where intercourse took place.
18
19
20
Okay.
That it was at an apartment,

And that
Can you like state everything that I
said happened on the bed?

A
That's where being on the bed and that's when
21
the black male was having penis to vagina intercourse
22
with her.
23
black man with dreads in his hair stood in the doorway
24
while telling the other black male to stop what he was
25
doing.
She stated she saw the door open and another
The victim stated she told the black male to

131
1
2
3
stop, but he replied it would be okay.

Q
Okay.
And then now can you say what I said
happened on leaving the apartment?
Upon leaving?
Yes.
That you got on the back of a scooter?
Okay.
8
9
Could you go ahead and state everything
that I said that's in your report.

A
That the victim stated that she then
10
remembered getting on a scooter with the black male
11
or -- she wasn't able to provide a location she was
12
coming from.
13
she remembered seeing or being on Call Street by the CVS
14
and Tennessee Street.
15
The only thing she was able to provide was
Do you want me to continue or is that --
16
Yes, please.
17
Okay.
18
she lived.
19
her -- tell him her true address so she told him Sally
20
Hall, which is another residence hall on campus.
21
that the black male dropped her off at the intersection
22
of Stadium Drive and Call Street which is about
23
approximately, I believe, like five hundred thousand
24
feet [sic] at approximately 2:00 a.m., and the victim
25
walked back to her residence.
She stated the black male asked where
The victim stated she didn't want to tell
And
132
1
2
3
Okay.
Thank you.
And how did you determine
it was off campus?

A
Because -- because of the CVS that you
recalled, seeing the CVS which was located off Tennessee
Street which we do not have or own property --
I mean, we do have anthropology that's in that
area, however, due to the unknown location of where the
apartment or where the assault took place my supervisor
at the time felt it was necessary to contact the city,
10
the Tallahassee Police Department --
11
Okay.
12
-- and have them involved.
13
Were you present when Officer Fallis did his
14
interview?
15
16
MR. CORNWELL:
I'm sorry, I didn't hear the
end of the question.
17
COMPLAINANT:
Were you present when Officer
18
Fallis did his interview?
19
I was present at the room.
I met him at your
20
room, the residence hall outside, informed him of the
21
incident which we typically do.
22
let them know, okay, this is, you know, the incident
23
that has been explained to me.
24
probably asked you some similar questions.
25
I was -- as officers we
I know he came in,
I did not get involved during his questioning

133
with you.
evidence, and then I volunteered to transport you to
TMH.
And I know that there was a collection of
So as far as questioning with Officer Fallis,
I cannot --
BY COMPLAINANT:
But the interview, you were in the presence?
Well, I don't know if he continued to question
you further or -- So to say the whole time that that was
10
his only interview with you, I can't confirm or deny
11
that.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
Okay.
Thank you.
And he wrote that during the interview bruises

began to appear.
A
Do you recall that?
I was not -- any questioning, anything that he
saw we did not converse.

Q
Okay.
But you don't personally recall that,
the bruises appearing?
19
No.
20
Okay.
21
That's fine.
And -- Okay.
Did you transport me to
the hospital?
22
I did.
23
And did I seem somewhat traumatized?
24
That's an opinion.
25
Okay.
You know, a statement.
134
Visibly upset.
Okay.
Yes, you were.
And what happened at the hospital while you
were there?
And was I cooperative throughout?
I can't recall exactly.
I know that at some
time upon appearing at TMH, Tallahassee Memorial
Hospital, a Victim's Advocate, FSU Victim's Advocate was
introduced to you.
10
At that time because the investigation had
11
been turned over to Tallahassee Police Department and I
12
had introduced the Victim's Advocate I was no longer
13
needed per se.
14
15
COMPLAINANT:
Okay.
I think that's all.
Thank you.
16
OFFICER HARRIS:
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
Any questions by Respondent?
19
MR. CORNWELL:
20
21
22
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Yes, Your Honor, we will have
questions.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Do you want to take a short
moment to confer?
23
MR. KERR:
Should we go first?
24
MS. JACKSON:
25
MR. KERR:
I think so.
Okay.
135
JUSTICE HARDING:
Thank you.
10:52 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. BUKANC:
COMPLAINANT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Complainant, are you still there?

Yes.
Okay.
I believe at this
time, Respondent, if you have questions you may ask
Ms. Harris.
10
11
12
Officer Harris.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
Officer Harris, can you please identify to
13
Justice Harding the curb in front of Sally Hall, the
14
walkway to the parking lot behind Sally Hall, and Kellum
15
Hall, please?
16
MR. CORNWELL:
17
(Respondent's Exhibit 6 was marked for
18
identification.)
19
Okay.
This will be, what, Exhibit 6?
So you just want me to confirm or deny
20
that this is what you're asking?
21
BY RESPONDENT:
22
Yes.
23
Okay.
Can you identify it?

Yes, this is the walkway in between
24
what we call the east and west halls for Sally Hall,
25
yes, buildings.
136
Okay.
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. KERR:
All right.
Excuse me.
I don't know if now is the time
to --
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. KERR:
Object.
-- to object, but I have an
objection to these being accepted into the record
because they were not disclosed as they should have
been on November 20th.
10
11
12
13
They may be used to refresh her recollection,

but not accepted as exhibits.
JUSTICE HARDING:
handed to me.
14
MR. CORNWELL:
15
JUSTICE HARDING:
16
17
I gave him what was just
Yes, okay.
And is that the purpose for
which it is -MR. CORNWELL:
We want it in evidence.
18
don't know why they're running from it.
I mean, it
19
is what it is.
20
clear indication, a clear understanding of the
21
areas that we're talking about.
It's for Your Honor's use to have a
22
I think the educational purpose of this
23
process should not require exclusion of evidence
24
that is helpful, nor would I imagine that the
25
Complainant would want to exclude evidence that

137
aided Your Honor in having a clear understanding of
the issues in the case but...
MS. BUKANC:
But the way it works for the
student conduct process is you made an objection,
and the Judge has listened to the objection, and
then we'll move forward and he'll decide once he is
doing his deliberation if he is going to include it
or not.
JUSTICE HARDING:
10
MS. BUKANC:
11
MR. CORNWELL:
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
But it's on the record for both.

Okay.
And it has been marked
13
tentatively as Number 6.
14
MR. CORNWELL:
That's right.
15
Number 7 now.
16
hand it to everybody else.
17
18
identification.)
OFFICER HARRIS:
23
24
25
So this is Number 1 or Number
7?
21
22
If you will allow me to mark it and
19
20
So let's do
MR. CORNWELL:
me.
Seven.
You're making fun of
I'll cross it.

OFFICER HARRIS:
I'm sorry.
I'm just making
sure.
MR. CORNWELL:
I crossed my 7.
138
OFFICER HARRIS:
identifying?
Thank you.
And, again, which one am I -- what am I
MR. CORNWELL:
OFFICER HARRIS:
Okay.
Just hold on.

Just hold on?
Okay.
BY RESPONDENT:
Officer Harris.
Yes.
Is this the walkway between Sally to Kellum?
10
11
JUSTICE HARDING:
number?
12
RESPONDENT:
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
14
MR. KERR:
15
Yes, 7.
Seven.
And the same objection and
continuing, if that's okay --
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
MR. KERR:
18
JUSTICE HARDING:
noted in the record.
20
Okay.
21
get to Kellum?
22
BY RESPONDENT:
Very well.
-- to undisclosed materials.
19
And the objection will be
There is multiple walkways.
Can you
Sure.
23
Excuse me.
24
Okay.
25
You are referring to exhibit
But the walkway from Call Street?
It's -- In the picture you can see that
there is a passage which goes from the stairs, which I

139
believe this is on the south side of Sally Hall -- which
are these the same stairs that are pictured in -- I
don't have an exhibit number on this one; but, Exhibit
6, is that what this one is?
Uh-huh.
Okay.
staircases?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay.
So are these two in the same
As I was saying before, this is a
10
passage which you can walk through.
11
buildings and such, but you can -- you can get to Kellum
12
through there.
13
14

identification.)
15
MR. CORNWELL:
16
OFFICER HARRIS:
17
MR. CORNWELL:
18
JUSTICE HARDING:
19
20
May I distribute it?
Thank you.
Can you identify that --
22
RESPONDENT:
25
That's my bad.
BY RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
21
23
There is multiple
This is Number 8?
Yeah, Number 8.
Number 8.
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
That this is the view of Kellum when you go
through this walkway, Number 7?

140
Well, this is a view on the north side of
Sally Hall into what we call the Hall drive parking
lots.
So when you emerge from Sally?
Yes, sir.
You can view Kellum from this?
Yes, you can.
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. KERR:
Same objection, Your Honor.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
RESPONDENT:
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
13
And the same objection?
Very well.
No more questions, Your Honor.

Okay.
All right.
questions by Respondent.
14
Anymore questions from Complainant?
15
MR. KERR:
16
COMPLAINANT:
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
much, Officer Harris.
I don't believe so but maybe -No, Your Honor.
19
MS. EGAN:
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
21
22
Very well.
Thank you very
I appreciate you being here.
Thank you.
I think the next witness is
Witness Six.
23
11:08 a.m. to 11:17 a.m.)
24
JUSTICE HARDING:
25
No more
All right.
Let's go back on
the record.
141
Hi.
MR. LEVINE:
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. CLUNE:
Who is on the phone?

Benjamin Levine and Respondent.
Your Honor, John Clune here as
well.
JUSTICE HARDING:
All right.
8
9
10
Okay.
Thank you.
Witness Six, you are Witness Six;
is that correct?
WITNESS SIX:
That is correct.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
And I'm Major
11
Harding.
I've been designated as the Hearing
12
Officer in this proceeding.
13
you're Complainant's father; is that correct?
14
WITNESS SIX:
15
JUSTICE HARDING:
And I understand
That is correct.
And you understand that
16
these proceedings are private and confidential, and
17
you should not disclose to anyone outside of those
18
around this table anything that happens during the
19
course of this proceeding.
20
21
WITNESS SIX:
22
JUSTICE HARDING:
23
Yes, sir.
And do you also promise to
tell the truth in regard to this matter?
24
WITNESS SIX:
Yes, sir, I do.
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
You may inquire,
142
Complainant.
COMPLAINANT:
I have a few questions, but I
thought it would be weird to question my father.
So would you, please?
JUSTICE HARDING:
6
7
8
9
10
11
Okay.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q
Witness Six, would you please explain how you
first found out about what had happened on December the

6th -- 7th and 6th of 2012?
A
In the early morning between probably 2:00 and
12
3:00 in the morning we got a phone call on our house
13
phone waking us up.
14
and the cheerleading coach at our local school and she
15
was -- my wife answered and she was explaining that she
16
got a call from another student that Complainant was in
17
trouble and had been raped.
18
It was Mrs. Brady who was a teacher
We couldn't believe it.
We were like it's got
19
to be a mistake, but we'll call her right now.
20
hung up and my wife called.
21
was hysterical, crying.
22
tell us what was going on.
23
My wife was the one on the phone.
24
25
So we
Complainant answered.
She
We were trying to get her to

I was trying to listen in.
After a few minutes I grabbed my cellphone and

I called a friend of mine who was a lieutenant with the
143
local sheriff's department over the major crimes
division.
Tallahassee?
When you say local, meaning here in
No, sir.
The local in Pasco County where I
live.
Okay.
And he was a lieutenant with the sheriff's
department there over major crimes.
Trying to tell him.
10
And he basically told me that rape is the worst thing
11
one person can do to another besides murder, and that we
12
needed to get to her as quick as we could, let her know
13
that we loved her, and let her know that she did nothing
14
wrong.
15
I came back in the room, hung up with him,
16
came back in the room.
17
with Complainant.
18
the Tallahassee -- or, excuse me, FSU Police Department
19
showed up.
20
My wife was still on the phone
Within a minute or two it seemed like
When the Officer came in she told Complainant
21
that she needed her undivided attention and that she
22
needed to hang up.
23
Complainant that we were on our way.
24
25
I had taken the phone and told
We grabbed a few things and got in our car and

started heading towards here.
144
And when did you arrive in Tallahassee?
I would say it was between 6:30 and 7:00 in
the morning.
And where -- where did you see her?
We went straight to the hospital.
When we got
there we found where she was at.
Tallahassee police officers there.
from the Victim's Advocate office and Witness Three was
there.
10
There was two

There was someone
The Tallahassee PD informed us that the
11
medical staff was in with her and that we would have to
12
wait a few minutes.
13
we did get to go in that we would only have a couple
14
minutes because they needed to interview her and talk to
15
her.
16
And they also informed us that when
It was -- it was a short period of time when
17
they let us in.
18
both me and my wife, and was holding her and crying with
19
her and telling her that we loved her.
20
21
22
We just climbed in the bed with her,
It wasn't long before Tallahassee PD asked us

to let them do their part.
At that point I -- we went back outside and I
23
took Witness Three back to her car at the dorm.
24
then when I returned back to the hospital I -- it was
25
only a short period of time before they were ready to

And
145
release her.
So then we took her back to her dorm.
went into the bathroom with her.
and sick.
went out -- or, excuse me.
My wife
She was throwing up
And then we got her into her bed.
And then I
Then me and my wife, we were hoping she would
get some sleep, so we went to the drugstore to get her
prescriptions filled and we went by Panera Bread to get
her a bagel, I believe.
And we stayed there a Panera
10
Bread until her prescription was ready to be picked up.
11
And then we came back, back to her dorm.
12
When we got back Witness Four was in the room
13
with her.
14
so, again, we talked to them and trying to figure out
15
what had happened.
16
we were trying to get her to get some rest.
17
They were sitting on the bed talking.
And
It wasn't long Witness Four left and
And then early afternoon she said she was
18
going to get cleaned up and go meet with Tallahassee PD
19
again.
20
us, and she said, no, that she was going to -- she was
21
going to stay.
And she said it was okay for us to go
22
ahead and go.
We told her we would stay as long as she
23
needed, but she said she would get through it.
24
we headed back towards our hometown.
25
And we asked her if she wanted to come home with
And so
Have you noticed any change in your daughter

146
1
2
since this happened?

A
There has been a lot of change.
She is --
When she was in high school she was involved with so
many things.
the volleyball team, she was editor of the yearbook, she
was in several clubs and she was always going, going,
going.
She played volleyball, she was captain on
Then when she got -- she came to FSU which is
where she has always wanted to go she joined a sorority
10
right away, she went out for the club volleyball team
11
that they have and was playing club volleyball.
12
again, always going.
13
And,
She loved it up here.
And then since this has happened and since she
14
has moved back home she -- she sleeps until noon on her
15
days when she doesn't have anything to do, she stays
16
around the house, she hardly ever goes out.
17
In one way that's good for us because I get to
18
spend more time with her, but she is just not the same
19
person she was.
20
21
22
Have you ever talked about what happened on
that night since December, 2012 with your daughter?

A
I have.
I haven't asked for the graphic
23
details, but we've discussed it and -- And, again, I
24
just let her know that it's not her fault and she'll get
25
through it.
147
1
2
3
And have you ever had the impression from
those conversations that your daughter was not raped?

A
No.
She was definitely raped.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Does Respondent have questions?
MR. CORNWELL:
We will.
Thank you.
I think we would like
to follow the procedure we did earlier and have
Your Honor ask the questions of Complainant's
father as opposed to Respondent.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
MR. CORNWELL:
Okay.
With that in mind I'm going to
12
confer and be back shortly.
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
14
MS. BUKANC:
15
JUSTICE HARDING:
16
17
Very well.
Back on mute.
I'm not going to touch it.
Thank you.
18
11:25 a.m. to 11:33 a.m.)
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
20
21
22
Very well.
All right.
Are you on the
phone?
MR. LEVINE:
Ben Levine and Respondent on the
phone.
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
All right.
Good.
Respondent has these questions.
25
148
1
2
3
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q
To your knowledge, did your daughter know that
she could call 911 to report an emergency?
whether she knew that?
I do not know if she knew that.
Okay.
Do you know
On December the 7th of 2012 were you
aware that Complainant was in a relationship with Jamal
Roberts?
10
11
I did not know that she was in a relationship
with him.
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
13
COMPLAINANT:
14
MR. KERR:
15
16
17
18
19
Do you have --
I'll ask, yes.
Okay.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Have there ever been any other crises or
police involvement with me?

A
Never.
Never.
20
COMPLAINANT:
21
JUSTICE HARDING:
22
Very well.
All right.
I think that's all.
Thank you.
Anything further
of this witness?
23
Thank you.
You may be excused.
24
WITNESS SIX:
25
MS. EGAN:
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
149
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:
to see if she is here.
Now, next is?
Next is
11:35 a.m. to 11:45 a.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
then is
All right.
The next witness
MS. JACKSON:
JUSTICE HARDING:
10
I'm going
Yes, sir.
, I'm Major
Harding, and I'm the Hearing Officer.
11
We're on.
Those on the phone can hear?
12
MR. LEVINE:
13
MR. CLUNE:
14
JUSTICE HARDING:
15
All right.
Yes.
Ben Levine and Respondent.
Yes, Your Honor.

Good.
My name is Major Harding.
I'm the
16
Hearing Officer.
And I'm going to ask those around
17
the table to introduce themselves so you will know
18
who is here.
19
We'll begin with Ms. Egan.
20
MS. EGAN:
21
22
Carolyn Egan.
General Counsel.
MR. BAJOCZKY:
23
Justice Harding.
24
MS. BUKANC:
25
I'm the University
Tony Bajoczky.
I work with
Rachel Bukanc, advisor to Major
Harding.
150
1
2
MS. JACKSON:
I'm the Associate General Counsel.
3
4
MR. CORNWELL:
MR. KERR:
I'm David
I'm Baine Kerr, advisor to
Complainant.
7
8
Good morning.
5
6
, I'm Robyn Jackson,
JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
And the court
reporter.
You understand that this is a private,
10
confidential matter, and what happens here today
11
should not be disclosed to anyone other than those
12
of us around the table.
13
14
15
Yes, I do.
JUSTICE HARDING:
And, further, do you
16
understand that it is important for you to tell the
17
truth, and do you agree to tell the truth in these
18
proceedings?
19
20
21
JUSTICE HARDING:
COMPLAINANT:
23
25
All right.
Complainant, I
believe you have questions of this witness.
22
24
I do.
Yes, sir.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Hi.
151
Hi.
Who are you and what do you do?
4
5
6
7
I am a forensic examiner
for sexual assault victims.

Q
And can you kind of explain what a SANE nurse
does?
A
I'm a registered nurse.
I practice as a
forensic examiner to collect evidence, preserve it, turn
it over to law enforcement.
I perform complete physical
10
exams on victims and provide prophylactic medications
11
and counseling.
12
13
14
And can you briefly describe your training and
experience in being a SANE nurse?

A
I became a forensic examiner in 2008.
I work
15
for the local rape crisis center, Refuge House.
16
Training consists of about 40 hours of active training
17
and then about a year to practice your clinical skills
18
and become proficient.
19
I am credentialed through the International
20
Association of Forensic Nurses.
I'm certified.
And I
21
maintain that with 40, 45 hours of continuing education
22
every three years.
23
Okay.
What was your role on this case?
24
I was the forensic examiner.
25
And do you recall this particular SANE exam?

152
No, I do not.
All right.
Have you been able to review your
report on this case?
Yes, I have.
Can you tell the Judge what you did and what
your findings were from the exam?
Do you have a document I could refer to?
I don't have it with me.
9
10
11
12
13
MR. KERR:
A
Downstairs.
If not, I have my copy if that's okay.
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Oh, yes.
MS. EGAN:
We won't be able to use the Bate's
14
numbers if we don't use one that's numbered.
15
really rather use one that has the numbers on it.
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
MS. EGAN:
18
19
20
Hers is not numbered then?
Hers is not numbered in the way
that we've numbered the whole record.

MR. KERR:
I can get everything from
downstairs.
21
MS. EGAN:
22
MR. CORNWELL:
23
I'd
Let's do that.
What Bate's number, do you
know?
24
MS. EGAN:
I don't know offhand.
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
We don't know.
153
1
2
MS. EGAN:
with it.
3
4
By the time I find it he'll be back

11:45 a.m. to 11:50 a.m.)
MS. EGAN:
Baine, do you have an extra copy of
that so that both Complainant and the witness can
have one?
use.
9
10
MR. KERR:
No, I don't.
We just have the one
copy.
11
12
Because, if not, I have one that she can
MS. EGAN:
All right.
Let's try that one and
let everybody look at it together.
13
Mine goes from 866 to 902.
14
JUSTICE HARDING:
All right.
Now, with the
15
Bate's number confirmed for the report you may look
16
at that, please.
17
18
19
20
21
22
MS. EGAN:
I'm just handing her the entire TMH
packet that we had at Tab 73.

BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Before that, can you describe the components
of a forensic exam like this one?

A
Okay.
As I said before, it would be a head to
23
toe assessment of the patient including an in detail
24
gynecological exam.
25
Okay.
And can you tell the Judge what you did
154
1
2
3
and what your findings were from the exam?

A
Certainly.
This patient presented.
have some exterior trauma.
She did
She had --
MR. CORNWELL:
One second, Your Honor.
If the witness is going to refer to multiple
pages of the report that she do so identify the
page before she testifies --
8
9
JUSTICE HARDING:
you would.
10
11
:
A
12
13
Certainly.
It's listed page 7 of 34.

MR. CORNWELL:
The Bate's number is at the
bottom.
14
15
16
Yes, that would be good if
Okay.
JUSTICE HARDING:
A
FSU000875.
Go ahead.
It shows a couple of bruises.
She had a
17
bruise on her left forearm that was brown.
18
brownish bruise on her knees and some redness just below
19
both of her kneecaps, and she had some mild redness on
20
the top of her right foot.
21
She had a
As far as perineal exam, she had mild
22
generalized vaginal tenderness and redness.
23
lacerations, no bruising, no tears, but just generalized
24
redness.
25
No actual
That was the extent of the exam that I saw

155
that was abnormal.
BY COMPLAINANT:
It appears that you did a brief interview with
me, or of me.
interview?
7
8
9
10
11
12
And what is the purpose of that
What the patient tells us guides what we
collect.
Q
What is your expectation of a victim's memory
in responding to your questions about a sexual assault?

A
Everyone is different.
Some people remember
quite vividly, others remember very little.

Q
So this interview that you did is not intended
13
to be a comprehensive interview of everything that
14
happened?
15
No, it is not.
16
Okay.
17
My job is mainly to perform an exam, collect
18
evidence.
19
law enforcement.
20
21
And why not?
As far as in depth detail, that belongs to
Okay.
Is vaginal tenderness consistent with a
sexual assault?
22
It can be.
23
And is vaginal redness consistent with a
24
25
sexual assault?
A
It can be.
156
1
2
Are muscle strains consistent with a sexual
assault; and, if so, in what circumstances?
They can be if a struggle was involved.
From what you observed in your exam was there
anything you noted that was inconsistent with a sexual
assault?
No.
And from what you observed was there anything
9
10
that was inconsistent with what I had described had

happened?
11
No.
12
If there had been such inconsistencies would
13
14
15
you have made a note of that on your records?

A
We don't come right out and say not consistent
with, no.
16
COMPLAINANT:
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
Okay.
That's all.
Will Respondent have
questions?
19
MR. CORNWELL:
Yes.
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
21
All right.
22
11:56 a.m. to 12:06 p.m.)
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
questions of this witness?
25
RESPONDENT:
Respondent, you have
Yes, Your Honor.
157
JUSTICE HARDING:
2
3
You may proceed.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Yes.
Could the vaginal redness that you noted be
consistent with consensual sex?
It can be.
Could the mild vaginal tenderness that you
10
noted be consensual -- be consistent with consensual
11
sex?
12
It can be.
13
Could the mild redness that you noted on your
14
15
report be consistent with consensual sex?

A
Yes, it can.
16
RESPONDENT:
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
further, Complainant?
19
COMPLAINANT:
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
21
don't have any questions.
Very well.
Anything
No, thank you.
22
MS. EGAN:
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
MR. BAJOCZKY:
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Thank you.
Do you?
No, sir.
Thank you.
You may be
158
1
2
3
4
5
excused.
12:07 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
can you hear me?
6
7
All right.
Yes, sir.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
My name is Major
Harding, and I'm the Hearing Officer that has been
designated for this.
And I would like to advise
10
you that this hearing and what happens here today
11
is very private and confidential, and is not to be
12
disclosed to anyone other than those involved
13
today.
14
And do you understand that?
15
16
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
And, also, do you promise to
tell the truth in this matter?
18
19
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
JUSTICE HARDING:
All right.
And I'm going to
20
ask, going around the table, so you'll know who
21
will be hearing what you say.
22
In addition to the court reporter we will
23
begin with Ms. Egan.
24
MS. EGAN:
25
Carolyn Egan, University General
Counsel.
159
1
2
MR. BAJOCZKY:
MS. BUKANC:
MS. JACKSON:
Hi.
MR. CORNWELL:
Good afternoon.
MR. KERR:
Baine Kerr, advisor to Complainant.
10
COMPLAINANT:
11
JUSTICE HARDING:
phone.
13
20
21
Okay.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Complainant, you may ask the
witness questions.
17
19
And there are folks on the
All right.
15
18
Complainant.
Respondent, Mr. Levine, and Mr. Clune.
14
16
David
12
Robyn Jackson for the
General Counsel's Office.
7
8
Rachel Bukanc, University advisor
for Major Harding.
5
6
I work with
Major Harding.
3
4
Tony Bajoczky.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Hi,
Can you talk about who you are
and what you do?

A
Yes.
I am a social worker.
I previously
22
volunteered as a Victim's Advocate at the Refuge House.
23
And I've since discontinued doing that.
24
25
But when I met Complainant that was my

position.
I was a volunteer for the sexual assault
160
1
2
team.
Q
Okay.
And can you please explain your
training and experience for your job as a Victim's
Advocate?
Yes.
I completed 60 hours of training
in-house with trained professionals.
They talked to us.
We did lots of testing and it was very intensive.
about six weeks we did that.
For
And then I also trained with skilled
10
professionals just shadowing them and following them for
11
the first couple of times that I was involved.
12
I interned at the Refuge House for quite some
13
time as a student.
14
nearing the end of an internship with the Refuge House.
15
So I had been there for approximately two years.
16
Okay.
So at that time in 2012 I was
How many sexual assault victims have
17
you worked with either as an on-call advocate or
18
otherwise in your career?
19
I do not have the exact number.
20
Could you like guess or --
21
Sure.
I think that it would have been greater
Okay.
And what was your role in this specific
22
23
24
25
than 50.
Q
case?
A
In this specific case I was an advocate sent

161
out to provide supportive services to you if that was
what you wanted, which it was.
Okay.
I have a pretty good recollection of this
5
6
7
8
9
And how well do you recall this case?
case.
Q
Can you kind of walk us through what you do
recall?
A
Sure.
I remember getting a call in the middle
of the night that you were at the hospital so I -- I
10
came up there probably around 5:00 -- between 5:00 and
11
6:00 I would say.
12
I remember that you were there and you had a
13
friend there as well, and that you spoke with me and
14
said that you had been sexually assaulted by a black
15
male, that he had a roommate that had come in and asked
16
him to stop, and when he had said stop when the roommate
17
had come in he then took you to the bathroom and locked
18
the door because there was a lock on that door and he
19
took you there and finished.
20
And then went -- he took you on a scooter and
21
dropped you off somewhere near campus, and you called a
22
friend and your friend came and picked you up.
23
you called law enforcement.
24
25
Okay.
And then
You wrote in the report that my
demeanor was flat and not outwardly emotional and that I

162
seemed dissociated.
Can you kind of explain what that meant?
Sure.
It just seems there was a severe
reduction in emotional expressiveness and you were
dissociated.
switching off.
survive traumatic events.
of sexual assault.
I kind of see that as your brain just

It's a defense mechanism to help people
It's very common of survivors
So you were not displaying any emotions
10
outwardly which made me think that you were emotionally
11
disconnected from the event at that time.
12
I made that assessment.
13
Okay.
So that's why
And if other witnesses would have
14
described me as being hysterical or crying hysterically,
15
would that surprise you?
16
Yes, that would surprise me.
17
I mean like earlier, not at that time.
18
Could you explain a little bit more.
19
Like
before I got there; is that what you're saying?
20
Yes.
21
No, I don't think that would surprise me.
22
Okay.
The purpose was to make sure that you knew
23
24
25
What was the purpose of interviewing
me?
that you had support, immediate support to come and help

163
you through the process with law enforcement, just to be
there to be an advocate for you.
understanding what was going on; if you needed help
talking with law enforcement; if you needed follow up
care; just knowing that you had somebody that could
connect you to the resources that you might be
interested in.
8
9
10
11
What are your expectations about a victim's
ability to recount the assault at this stage of the

process?
A
12
13
Could you repeat that question?

JUSTICE HARDING:
COMPLAINANT:
15
JUSTICE HARDING:
19
20
The process -- okay.

-- you're talking about
when, now or then?
17
18
When you say this stage of
the process --
14
16
If you needed help
COMPLAINANT:
No, then.
Whenever she was
involved.
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
What are your expectations about a victim's
21
ability to recount the assault at this stage of the
22
process pertaining to like when you were involved?
23
I would say that judging from my assessment
24
that you were dissociated.
A lot of times when
25
individuals are dissociated their -- it's a natural

164
response and often they're not able to remember
everything; and, if they do remember things, it's not
within chronological order, if they're fragmented.
would think that not being able to remember everything
at that exact time is a common response.
Okay.
And you wrote down that I said I didn't
remember much.
memory based upon your prior experience and training?
9
10
11
But what was your own impression of my
My own impression was that you remembered a
great deal of detail comparatively.

Q
Okay.
Thank you.
Were you at all concerned
12
that I could not recall all of the details of that
13
evening?
14
No.
15
How common is it, in your experience, for a
16
rape victim to recall some details with specificity and
17
other details not at all?
18
19
20
21
I would say that that is -- that would be a
product of dissociation.
Q
Based upon your training and experience did I
seem like someone who had been traumatized?
22
Yes.
23
And can you talk about why a little bit?
24
I think that your reaction to what had
25
happened was -- it was a very common reaction and

165
victims of sexual assault I think that --
What I recall, walking away I remember
thinking that you had remembered -- you had remembered a
great deal; you immediately contacted law enforcement;
you were willing to press charges; you were willing to
get, you know, the police involved; and, that is not
always typical of people, you know, in my experience.
They a lot of times -- a lot of times -- Of
course everybody that I have assisted, as you know, they
10
have said that they have been involved in some way; but,
11
the fact that you got your family involved and that you
12
got a friend and you had law enforcement involved
13
immediately kind of gave me the impression that this was
14
real and that this had happened and that you wanted
15
to -- you wanted to I guess figure out -- you know,
16
figure out why it had happened and you wanted to be
17
heard.
18
Okay.
And was there anything in your contact
19
with me that gave you the impression that this was not a
20
sexual assault?
21
22
23
24
25
No.
COMPLAINANT:
That's all.
:
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
JUSTICE HARDING:
All right.
We're going to
take a short break.

166
1
2
Will Respondent have questions of this

witness?
3
4
MR. CORNWELL:
Yes, he will, Your Honor.
we run the risk of them being extensive.
JUSTICE HARDING:
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
15
Okay.
JUSTICE HARDING:
12
14
Okay.
Respondent has some questions.
10
13
Sure.
1:51 p.m. to 2:04 p.m.)
8
9
And
Respondent.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
You were not a clinical psychologist at the
time of the alleged incident, true?
16
True.
17
Your opinions are based on 60 hours of
18
training on working with an undetermined number of
19
women, true?
20
Yes.
21
You testified that Complainant "immediately
22
contacted law enforcement."
23
that statement?
24
25
enforcement?
On what facts did you base
That she had immediately contacted law
167
Yes.
I based that on the fact that she told me that
the incident was -- had occurred at approximately 1:30
in the morning, and I had gotten a call around
5:00 a.m., and that she had been at the hospital for
several hours at that point.
What time did the alleged assault occur?
What I had documented is around 1:30 a.m.
Okay.
You testified that Complainant was
10
dropped off and she called a friend to pick her up.
11
that what Complainant told you?
Is
12
Yes.
13
Are you aware that Complainant did not call
14
911 to report the alleged assault?
15
No.
16
Are you aware that Complainant sent and
17
received numerous text messages in the hour following --
18
in the hours following the alleged assault but did not
19
report the alleged assault in any of those text
20
messages?
21
No.
22
Are you aware that Complainant did not call
23
any family or friends to make her initial report of the
24
alleged assault?
25
To my knowledge she had a friend with her.

168
1
2
3
Okay.
Are you aware that Complainant's
initial outcry was made on Twitter?

A
I have no knowledge of anything on Twitter.
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
8
9
Okay.
Thank you.
Is that all?
Yes, sir, Your Honor.

Okay.
have any additional questions?

COMPLAINANT:
No additional questions.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
don't have any questions.
12
Thank you very much,
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
15
MS. EGAN:
19
20
21
22
You may be excused.
Thank you.
16
18
Yes, thank you.
14
17
Complainant, do you
All right.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Bye.
All right.
I believe that
concludes all of the Claimant's witnesses.

And are we now ready to proceed with the
Respondent's witnesses?
RESPONDENT:
Yes, Your Honor, in just a
moment.
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
MS. BUKANC:
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Did you want to put him on mute?

And I believe he would be in
169
the conference room, so we'll see you all later.
COMPLAINANT:
MR. KERR:
MR. LEVINE:
Thank you.
Do you have a line up?

I think we're going to begin with
Officer Newlin, or Investigator Newlin.
speak to that more.
MS. EGAN:
8
9
10
David can
Do you want to unmute it and ask
the question before you leave the room?

JUSTICE HARDING:
Yeah, let's do that.
MS. EGAN:
David, we were just talking
Okay.
11
about what the afternoon looks like and who you
12
might call just so we can all be ready.
13
14
15
And we know that Newlin is next.
But we were
just trying to get an idea.

MR. CORNWELL:
Depending upon how Mr. Newlin
16
goes and the brief comment by Respondent, given the
17
evidence we have seen thus far, it will be our
18
inclination not to call any further witnesses.
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
20
All right.
Thank you.
We're going to put you on mute,
21
and I guess it will be for you to come up with
22
Respondent.
23
24
25
MS. JACKSON:
If they can sit tight for just a
second.
MS. EGAN:
Yeah.
170
JUSTICE HARDING:
If you will sit tight for
just a second, Robyn will let you know when to come
up.
MS. EGAN:
MR. CORNWELL:
JUSTICE HARDING:
8
9
10
Thanks.
Sure.
Thank you.
2:10 p.m. to 2:23 p.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. CORNWELL:
All right, Mr. Cornwell.
With your permission, before we
11
call Mr. Newlin, Respondent has asked me to address
12
you directly regarding the status of these
13
proceedings at this point.
14
MR. KERR:
15
MR. CORNWELL:
Regarding what?
The status of these proceedings
16
at this particular point.
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
permit that.
May I do so?
May I do so?
I don't know that the Rules
How is that?
19
MS. BUKANC:
What do you mean by status?
20
MR. CORNWELL:
The status of these
21
proceedings, the evidence and the witness testimony
22
up to this point.
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
MR. KERR:
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Well, that would be --
I would object to that.

That would be included in
171
1
2
3
4
your post hearing submissions after the conclusion.

I'm not sure, when you say status what do you
mean?
MR. CORNWELL:
We want to talk about the state
of the evidence based on the presentation of
Florida State and the Complainant at this point in
the record.
MR. KERR:
JUSTICE HARDING:
10
I would object to that, Your Honor.

I do not believe under the
Rules, Mr. Cornwell, that that is permissible.
11
Am I correct on that?
12
MS. BUKANC:
13
question before.
14
shared until his decision is rendered.
15
Well, we've never been asked that

No decisions or information is
So there is no status, it's just we -- At this
16
point we've collected information.
17
the status.
18
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
That would be
And so to the objection I
would sustain it.
20
And you can call your next witness.
21
MR. CORNWELL:
22
MS. JACKSON:
23
JUSTICE HARDING:
24
(A brief break was taken off the record.)
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Okay.
So we call Jason Newlin.

I'll go get him.
Very well.
You are Jason Newlin?
172
INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:
JUSTICE HARDING:
Yes, I am.
My name is Major Harding,
and I'm the Hearing Officer that has been
designated for this hearing.
I'm going to ask that we go around the table
and everyone introduce themselves so you'll know
who you'll be talking to.
JUSTICE HARDING:
10
11
MS. EGAN:
Let's begin with Ms. Egan.
Carolyn Egan.
13
MR. BAJOCZKY:
I work with
Justice Harding.
16
MS. BUKANC:
Hi.
Rachel Bukanc, University advisor
to Major Harding.
18
19
MS. JACKSON:
20
Okay.
Tony Bajoczky.
15
17
I'm the University
General Counsel.
12
14
That sounds good.
Okay.
I'm Robyn Jackson, Associate
General Counsel.
21
22
MR. KERR:
23
24
RESPONDENT:
25
MR. CORNWELL:
Yes, ma'am.
Baine Kerr, advisor to Complainant.

All right.
Respondent.
Hi, I'm David Cornwell, the
173
advisor to Respondent.
JUSTICE HARDING:
And the court reporter is
taking down everything that is said.
everything that is thought, but everything that is
said.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Not
Yes, sir.
And you understand that
these proceedings are private and confidential, and
nothing that occurs to you during the course of
10
this proceeding should be related to anyone else
11
other than those in this courtroom.
12
understand that?
13
14
JUSTICE HARDING:
15
And you
Yes, sir.
And you also agree to tell
the truth and nothing but the truth?
16
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
Respondent, you may inquire of the witness.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Yes, sir, I do.
Very well.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
Mr. Newlin, do you have this report
(indicating)?
A
Yes, that's my report.
I don't have a copy
with me but...
MR. CORNWELL:
Can we make a copy available?
174
MS. JACKSON:
Sure.
MS. BUKANC:
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. CORNWELL:
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. CORNWELL:
MS. EGAN:
MS. EGAN:
Do you need to reference what --
It's Tab 50.
284 through --
11
MR. CORNWELL:
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
Tab?
Fifty.
You've got a copy of it,
right?
14
16
-- 298.
There you go.
JUSTICE HARDING:
15
And the Bate's stamp?
284 through 298.
10
13
What page is --
Yes, I do.
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
17
Mr. Newman -MR. CORNWELL:
Newlin.
18
Mr. Newlin, I'm sorry.
19
It's okay.
20
Describe your investigation and its findings.
21
November 14th of 2013 I was asked by our Chief
22
Assistant, Georgia Cappleman, to assist with follow up
23
investigation into this case.
24
25
Throughout this investigation I was in contact

with TPD, with Ms. Cappleman as well as Mr. Meggs our
175
State Attorney.
Initially my investigation began by just
reviewing all the reports that were associated with it
and the evidence that was collected at the time.
November 14th I believe was a Thursday, and
that Friday I began attempting to conduct interviews
with possible witnesses that were mentioned in the
report.
My initial contact was -- I was actually
10
initially contacted by Patricia Carroll as referenced in
11
the report.
12
was to go through, Ms. Carroll.
13
interview for the following week with Complainant.
14
That was who any contact with the accuser

I called her, set up an
And then I also -- then my next step was to
15
start trying to investigate or interview possible
16
witnesses in the case.
17
The first one I actually was able to contact
18
was Witness Four.
What I actually recall that day was
19
it was homecoming, and I called her and asked her if she
20
would be willing to interview.
21
would call me right back and let me know when.
22
hear back from her for a little while so I started to
23
try to call her, call her, call her.
She said she would.
She
I didn't
24
Eventually she was able to text me that she
25
was too busy that day, but she would contact me later
176
and conduct an interview with me.
I ended up contacting a Witness Five as well.
Witness Five, it took me a while to find him or contact
information for him.
asked him for an interview.
would have to speak with Complainant's attorney prior to
interviewing with me.
we would subpoena him, that things don't normally work
in that direction during a criminal investigation.
10
11
But once we did I spoke to him,

He actually told me he
I kind of explained to him that
He
agreed to interview.
That following Monday, I don't know the date,
12
I was meeting with Georgia Cappleman and we were advised
13
that Ms. Carroll was present at our office on Monday
14
when our original meeting was supposed to be Wednesday.
15
We sat down with Ms. Carroll at the meeting
16
and went through the -- she asked -- she gave us her
17
concerns of the case.
18
would conduct the investigation.
19
us that she had actually eaten dinner and spoken with
20
Witness Four that Sunday night.
21
We spoke to her about how we

And then she advised
So I ended up calling Witness Four back on
22
Monday and getting Witness Four as well as Witness Five
23
to come in on the same day for an interview.
24
25
Both Witness Four and Witness Five came in -and I'll refer to the report.
On the 18th I was able to
177
interview Witness Four at the State Attorney's Office.
We swore Witness Four and Witness Five in both before we
interviewed them.
I essentially asked Witness Four to just give
me what happened the evening of December 7th, 2012.
And, actually, prior to that -- I take that back.
Prior to that I asked her, you know, how did
you know Complainant?
How long have you known her?
type of relationship they had.
The
She advised they met
10
during Rush week for sororities.
11
other since that fall which it was December of 2012.
12
since fall of 2012.
13
sorority, but remained friends after the recruitment.
14
They'd known each

So
They did not join the same
Then we jumped forward to the evening of the
15
event.
16
friend, which was Ashley we believe, met at
17
Complainant's apartment actually before going out.
18
said they actually had a few alcoholic drinks in their
19
apartment at the dorm room before they went to
20
Potbelly's because they were going to be banded under
21
and not be able to drink at Potbelly's.
22
She advised that her and Complainant and another
When they got to Potbelly's another friend of
23
theirs showed up who is Witness Five who I ended up
24
interviewing later that afternoon.
25
She
And Witness Five and Witness Four and Ashley

178
and Complainant shared what they all recalled to be
about five mixed drinks.
Witness Four advised when she was actually --
she had to go to the restroom.
with her to the restroom and on the way a large -- a
taller black male grabbed Complainant out of the crowd
as they were walking to the bathroom.
8
9
10
So Complainant walked
Witness Four advised it was not in an

aggressive manner.
It was just kind of pulled her over
and started to talk to her.
11
They conversed, Complainant and the black male
12
conversed while Witness Four went into the restroom.
13
She came back out and they were still conversing.
14
Witness Four advised Complainant gave the
15
black male her phone number and he put it in his phone
16
as she walked away with Witness Four.
17
She said at that time this little weird short
18
guy began following them around all night.
19
intimidating them but continued to follow them around.
20
He was not
She said they drank a little bit more.
21
Complainant did not seem drunk to Witness Four at the
22
time.
23
the evening, Complainant showed Witness Four her phone
24
and there was a text message that said meet me out
25
front.
She said at one point in the evening, later on in
179
Witness Four recalled the number not being
programmed in the phone because the iPhone -- I guess it
would be referred to as the label.
When you program a phone number in your phone
and provide a name to it the name is associated with it.
There was no name associated with it so she knew it was
a phone number that was not programmed in Complainant's
phone.
She said Complainant looked at her and asked
10
should I go, and she replied you can go.
And she said,
11
and I quote, "within a few seconds she was gone."
12
said she did not see Complainant until the following
13
day.
She
14
Witness Four told -- Okay.
15
Witness Four saw Complainant the following day.
16
Complainant told Witness Four that she tried to call
17
her, and Witness Four said she didn't see any missed
18
calls on her phone.
19
Complainant --
So she couldn't figure that out.
We later did find those attempted phone calls
20
on Complainant's phone to Witness Four's phone number,
21
but nothing completed as a contact.
22
Witness Four refers to text messages that she
23
received from Complainant in reference to her ID.
24
Actually, I take that back.
25
That night Witness Four did not -- The

180
interview in November of 2013 Witness Four did not
recall receiving the text messages that occurred on
December of 2012.
We later found those text messages in the --
from the Cellebrite reports conducted by TPD in November
of 2012.
Witness Four didn't know anybody else involved
in this situation.
just not paying attention to what goes on around her and
10
She actually described herself as
not knowing anybody else involved in it.
11
Then Witness Four said it was in class in
12
January when Complainant recognized Mr. Winston as an
13
individual who the sexual encounter occurred with in
14
November, the prior November.
15
said it all made sense at that point as to why
16
Complainant -- Let's see here.
17
essentially just put it together at that point as to
18
what occurred.
19
And she -- Witness Four
That Witness Four
Later that same afternoon I spoke to Witness
20
Five.
21
had known Complainant since the fall of 2012.
22
known Witness Four longer than that.
23
good friends pretty quick during the fall semester of
24
2012.
25
Witness Five was sworn in as well.
Witness Five
He had
They were pretty
Witness Five recalled going to Potbelly's at

181
an event or whatever they want to call it.
purgatory.
midnight.
Five was a little off with his time versus Witness
Four's time.
them, he thought he got there before them.
10:15, one was 11:15.
8
9
10
It was $10 all you could drink alcohol until

He believed he got there around -- Witness
Witness Four thought he got there after

One was
Witness Five recalled seeing Complainant

around 11:30.
She was drunk but she was not, in his
words, quote/unquote that girl drunk.
11
He said she -- it was not -- it was not like
12
she needed to go home is what he told us.
13
happy.
14
It's called
She was just
Witness Five received a call from Witness Four
15
telling him what occurred, and he went over to meet
16
Complainant at her apartment and she wouldn't let him
17
touch him [sic].
18
Because this was December of the following
19
year we collected buccal swabs for comparison to the
20
evidence that was obtained in that case.
21
Those are the interviews with those two.
22
We went to interview Complainant that
23
Thursday, the following Thursday, on 11-21-13.
24
with her and her attorney, Ms. Carroll, at her office.
25
It was myself, Chief Assistant Georgia Cappleman,

We met
182
Victim's Advocate Susan Parmalee.
discuss the issues with the case that at the time were
in most -- in Ms. Cappleman's eyes and in ours that were
issues that we needed to clarify.
We were there to
One of the largest issues was we had an
unknown DNA in the crotch of the pants that she provided
law enforcement.
8
9
While speaking with her she -- Ms. Cappleman

asked if there was another individual that we needed to
10
worry about involved in this case, and she said no.
11
goes, do you know who this person is?
12
replied she did.
13
this person was, and she wouldn't tell us.
14
She
And Complainant
And we asked her who it was, or who
Ms. Carroll then asked if she needed to leave
15
the room, if it would help her in talking to us.
16
agreed.
17
She
Ms. Carroll left the room.

Complainant, we asked her again.
She wouldn't
18
tell us.
19
to be involved in this case.
20
knew about the case; and, she goes, yes, she has talked
21
to this person about it.
22
She just told us that this person didn't need

I asked if this person
I asked -- what is not documented in this
23
report, when talking to Witness Five he -- we asked him
24
if she had a girlfriend, and we asked Witness Four if
25
she had -- I mean a boyfriend.
If Complainant had a
183
boyfriend.
not she had a boyfriend or not.
recalled her talking about somebody in Ohio, and that's
all we could get.
And neither of them could recall whether or

But Witness Five
So with Ms. Carroll out of the room I asked
Complainant, I said, is this the individual that lives
in Ohio, and she replied it was.
8
9
I still didn't know who he was.
I asked if
this was an individual who lived -- who was from their
10
hometown, and she replied it was.
11
want to tell us who it is?
12
refused to tell us who this other DNA source was.
13
14
15
And we said, do you
And she goes, no.
I got back to the office.
And she
Mr. Meggs, he says
you got to figure out who this person is.

So through internet sources I -- and reviewing
16
her phone calls I located a Jamal Roberts who was a
17
football player in Ohio who was from Dade City, Florida.
18
Tried to get his DNA in Ohio.
19
the holidays.
20
Attorney in the Sixth Circuit I believe it was.
21
He had traveled home for
We ended up having to contact the State
And an investigator, Neil Fraley, down there
22
made contact with Mr. Jamal Roberts.
23
provide the DNA sample.
24
25
Jamal agreed to
And he actually told Mr. Fraley, he goes, I've

been waiting for somebody to try and talk to me or
184
somebody to come say something to me.
We asked the following day if Neil -- if
Investigator Fraley would go back and try and interview
him and see if he would provide a statement as to what
occurred.
without subpoena on advice of Complainant's Counsel.
Investigator Fraley did and he refused
We then -- I collected the DNA from Neil
Fraley, took it to TPD for submission to FDLE.
submitted to FDLE with a rush request.
It was
The rush came
10
back as I believe it was a sextillion confirmation that
11
it was his DNA in her pants.
12
At that point our office received contact from
13
Ms. Carroll advising that Complainant had bought those
14
pants after the sexual encounter occurred and that that
15
DNA would not be that of her boyfriend's.
16
just received confirmation that it was.
17
And we had
And then shortly there after that we received
18
another call from Ms. Carroll advising us that Ms. --
19
that Witness Four had worn -- would wear the same
20
clothes as Complainant, and that that possibly could be
21
the source of the DNA.
22
We then informed Ms. Carroll that we had
23
already figured out who it was, and that was the end of
24
the contact with that.
25
We tried to contact the cab driver who picked

185
the three black males and a white female up from
Potbelly's to take them to what we later found was
Legacy Suites.
provided with every cab driver that drove that night.
None of them recalled that.
the most interesting responses to the questions we
asked.
picking up, you know, three black males and a white
female from Potbelly's.
10
I went through the cab company and was
I actually received some of
Nobody could recall that kind of drive or
I went to Potbelly's to see if they had video
11
cameras of the incident.
12
but they are on a 30-day cycle.
13
away from the 30 days.
14
us.
15
They do have video cameras,

We were 10, 11 months
So those were not available to
That's pretty much -- We attempted to locate a
16
security guard.
17
he observed Respondent and Complainant leaving Legacy
18
Suites on a scooter, and while doing so he was speaking
19
with a security guard.
20
It was referenced by Witness Two that
We contacted the security company to see if
21
they would tell us who this person was.
22
never heard back from him.
23
further on that as to who the security guard was working
24
that night.
25
MR. CORNWELL:
We actually
We never did verify any
Just one second.
186
1
2
3
BY RESPONDENT:
Q
What did Complainant say occurred that night
with respect to the sexual involvement?
She couldn't recall a lot.
She -- let me get
back to it.
being at Potbelly's.
male that she was speaking with while Witness Four used
the restroom.
recalled several females approaching him asking her if
We talked to her -- I spoke with her about

I asked Complainant about a black
She recalled speaking with him and
10
she knew him.
11
him, and they told her his name was Chris and he was the
12
only freshman starting linebacker on the football team.
13
She told the females she did not know
I advised Complainant that witnesses placed
14
Witness One in the front -- the only freshman defensive
15
named Witness One in the front seat of the cab when they
16
traveled to the apartment.
17
that was the front seat passenger in the cab.
18
didn't know that Witness One was the front seat
19
passenger in the cab when they traveled from Potbelly's.
20
She said she did not know

She
As far as details of that night, I don't -- I
21
don't recall us trying to get her to go through it
22
detail by detail again.
23
there we were giving her the perceived problems and
24
trying to get clarification, not having the entire
25
evening laid out again.
So we were -- when we were
187
1
2
Did Complainant make her initial outcry on
Twitter?
Yes, she did.
Both Bria Henry and Witness
Three advised that they observed either help me, someone
help me, or come help me via Complainant's Twitter
account.
Witness Three actually referenced it that it
came over and over and over and over which is why she
replied and actually contacted Complainant that evening.
10
Okay.
What time did the sexual assault occur?
11
We don't know.
12
Approximately?
13
The best we were able to determine was through
14
phone records.
15
Complainant to Witness Four, and it said, "Come find
16
me."
17
We had a text at 12:50 a.m. from
The next communication was at 1:40 a.m.
18
was a one second phone call.
19
version so I can't tell you who it went to.
20
It
And this is a redacted
And then at 1:45 a.m., I can tell you this
21
one, Complainant was texting Witness Four, "Do you have
22
my ID?"
23
At 1:46 there is an unknown call.
24
actually at 1:46, I believe.
25
but I'd have to see the unredacted version.
It's
This is the phone call,
188
Then Complainant texted again at 1:47 -- or
received a text from Witness Four, "I don't think so."
And then Complainant replied at 1:48, "FUCKKKKKKK."
4
5
Complainant received a text at 1:49 saying,

"It's with your money.
MR. CORNWELL:
At 1:49 she says, "Find it."

Just for the record, you're
referring to Bate's number 288?
9
10
Correct, Bate's 288.
Or, yes, 288.

A
11
And then at 1:58, "Did you find it?"

Then at 2:24 Complainant sent a text out to
12
Witness Four that said, "I didn't find it.
13
you?"
14
Where are
The best we were able to narrow the time frame
15
down was between 1:48 and 2:24 because the last text
16
sent by Complainant was at 1:48, and the next -- the
17
following text sent by Complainant was 2:24.
18
Prior to that she was with Witness Four, and
19
after that she was -- That's the best we were able to
20
determine between 1:48 and 2:24.
21
BY RESPONDENT:
22
23
24
25
Mr. Newlin, can you read from 4:42 through
4:46, please?
A
4:42 is, "Will you send me" -- Actually, this
text thread starts at 4:41 and it's, "I got spa-2.

189
got spa-2."
We actually asked Complainant about -- that
was answers to a quiz or a homework project, and these
are a classmate of hers who had gotten the answers to a
quiz.
So from 4:41 it's, "I got spa-2."
And then
she asked, "Will you text me your answers, please?"
Then the reply was, "Yep, two minutes".
much."
And three, the answer to number three, "under
10
great stress."
11
"internal locus." Six, "self-efficacy."
12
say in a visit."
13
Eight, "social support."
14
Ten, "prevention."
15
Thank you so
Two, "James."
One, "resiliently." Four,

Five, "Had a
Seven, "stable, internal, global."

Nine, "condoms are often."
And then there is no further text until 8:22.
16
And these texts follow the alleged assault?
17
These texts would have occurred while she was
18
at the hospital and they would have been after the
19
alleged assault, yes.
20
Did Witness Four use the term targeted
21
regarding the male who grabbed Complainant by the arm at
22
Potbelly's?
23
I don't have it listed in there.
I do recall
24
in our meeting with Ms. Carroll she described Witness
25
Four's version of yanking female out of the crowd and

190
pulling her over to him in an aggressive manner; and,
then when we spoke to Witness Four the following day --
it was either the following day -- it is the following
day, she said, no, it was not in an aggressive manner,
it was just as if somebody stuck their hand in a crowd
and pulled the female out and talked to her.
7
8
9
What happened to the text message that told
Complainant to come outside?

A
We were not able to find it.
There are
10
several issues that could occur with that, with
11
cellphone technology.
12
13
14
But we could not find it.
What conclusions did you reach in your
investigation?
A
We had, between myself and Mr. Meggs and
15
Ms. Cappleman, it was -- it was difficult to establish
16
probable cause in this case due to the lack of
17
recollection of what occurred by Complainant as well as
18
the discrepancies in what the issues were.
19
We were told by Bria Henry as well as Witness
20
Three that she was struck over the head.
21
to she was intoxicated.
22
and it was a .04.
23
have --
Then it moved
We received the toxicology back
And there was a belief that she may
24
What does .04 mean?
25
.04 grams per deciliter I believe is what it

191
is.
limit to operate a vehicle before you're impaired.
.04 is just half of that.
it's actually a .02.
In the State of Florida .08 is the legal alcohol
6
7
8
9
10
11
I mean, if you're under 21
Did she have the capacity to consent to sex?

MR. KERR:
Beyond his expertise.
Object.
Yeah, I don't think I can answer that.

JUSTICE HARDING:
He has ruled on your
objection.
A
Sorry.
BY RESPONDENT:
12
What other discrepancies?
13
We had the possibility of there being a date
14
rape drug placed in the system.
15
University of Florida by a Dr. Goldberger, and he
16
couldn't find any drugs in her system.
17
18
been used?
19
Those are tested at the
Yeah.
Who suggested that the date rape drugs had
Ms. Carroll suggested it, but it's going to be
20
-- it's a standard procedure for us to test for them
21
anyways.
22
that's what occurred in a sexual battery case.
Both of them are going to be tested to see if
23
And how did the investigation conclude?
24
Our office chose not to prosecute this case.
25
MR. CORNWELL:
If we could take a moment?
192
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. CORNWELL:
You may.
Thank you.
2:59 p.m. to 3:09 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
have additional questions?
RESPONDENT:
294.
10
15
16
17
I would like to refer him to page
Okay.
Ms. Carroll discussed the case at a sit down
dinner with Witness Four, true?
13
14
Respondent, do you
BY RESPONDENT:
11
12
Okay.
A
yes.
That's what we were advised by Ms. Carroll,
And Witness Four, yes.

Q
And that was before Complainant met with
you -- Witness Four met with you?

A
Correct.
It was going to be the 17th.
Yes,
18
she met the Sunday before the Monday that we spoke with
19
Ms. Carroll and before we spoke with Witness Four.
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
21
RESPONDENT:
22
JUSTICE HARDING:
23
MR. KERR:
24
25
Anything further?

Okay.
Could we take a quick break to
confer?
JUSTICE HARDING:
Yes, you may.
193
1
2

3:11 p.m. to 3:27 p.m.)
3
4
JUSTICE HARDING:
COMPLAINANT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
COMPLAINANT:
11
12
13
You may inquire,
Thank you.
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q
Investigator Newlin, I never specifically said
to you that I was hit on the head, correct?

A
Not to me.
COURT REPORTER:
15
that?
16
BY COMPLAINANT:
18
All right.
CROSS EXAMINATION
14
17
Okay.
Complainant.
10
We're
waiting for someone to come back in the room.
Just a moment.
I'm sorry, could you repeat
I never specifically said to you that I was
hit on the head, correct?
19
Correct.
20
And I never specifically said to you that I
21
thought I was drugged; is that correct?
22
I do not recall.
23
Okay.
24
25
In your role in this case you reviewed
my prior statements?
A
Yes.
194
1
2
In all of those prior statements I said that I
was at the bar with my friends, right?
Correct.
And that I couldn't remember leaving the bar?
You remembered getting into a cab but couldn't
6
7
8
remember how you got into the cab.

Q
Okay.
But I couldn't recall actually leaving
the bar?
Not that I recall.
10
Okay.
11
Correct.
12
And that I recalled being led into an
13
apartment?
14
And that I recalled being in a taxi?
Depended on which interview.
One of them you
15
did not recall being led into an apartment, the other
16
one you did recall being led into the apartment.
17
And that I remembered being raped on a bed?
18
That is correct.
19
And that another male came into the room
20
trying to stop the assault?
21
That is correct.
22
That I was then taken to the bathroom where I
23
was raped again?
24
That is correct.
25
That I resisted and told him to stop?

195
That's correct.
And that I didn't know the identity of the man
who did this?
That is correct.
So I have always been consistent in those
details?
Correct.
In any of my interviews did I say anything
9
10
that indicated to you that I had actually given consent

to Respondent?
11
In one of the interviews with Angulo you
12
referenced not recalling if you gave consent or not and
13
actually mentioned just because you received a text
14
message you didn't believe that was giving consent or
15
not.
16
17
So I never actually said anything that
indicated to you that I had given consent to Respondent?
18
No.
19
Okay.
You mentioned the text messages in your
20
report and Respondent asked you to read my text messages
21
while I was at the hospital, correct?
22
Correct.
23
Just like right now.
24
Correct.
25
Would you now read the messages from

196
1
2
11:49 a.m. until 11:53 a.m.?

A
It's page 289.
3
4
5
MR. CORNWELL:
A
Yeah, 289.
From 11:49?
BY COMPLAINANT:
Yes.
Okay.
11:49, "I have to talk to you.
all night in the hospital.
to you."
I spent
The police might try to talk
That was to Witness Four.
10
She replied, "What the fuck happened?"
11
then she also replied, "OMG, you're scaring me."
12
she replied, "Talk to me."
13
then you replied, "I got raped.
14
about it.
My parents are here."
15
my room."
She replied, "I'm coming.
16
"Yeah.
17
whenever you get home come over here.
18
in the room?
19
but they'll leave.
20
way here at 4:00 in the morning."
21
I'm here for you and I'm sorry this happened.
22
really bad I let you leave."
And
Then
Then, "Where are you?"
No, I'm about to cry.
And
I don't want to text

Then you replied, "In
Are you okay?"
It's a long story.
Just
"Are your parents
How did they get here so fast?"
"Yeah,
My dad went like a hundred the whole
23
Well, that's all.
24
Oh.
25
Thank you.
"I love you, baby.

I feel
"Hey --
Have you ever been present for a
197
full SANE exam?
No, I have not.
Do you know about how long they take?
I do not.
Okay.
You talked about the DNA that belonged
to my boyfriend, Jamal, correct?
Correct.
And you learned my boyfriend had not seen me
9
10
for months and was in Ohio on December 6th and the 7th,
correct?
11
I never actually learned any of that.
12
Have you heard that?
13
Just now.
14
Okay.
15
16
So the DNA did not have anything to do
with whether or not I was raped, correct?

A
There was an unknown DNA source in the pants
17
of a sexual battery victim.
18
had to investigate that to the fullest.
19
There was no way to -- we
You mentioned that you and Mr. Meggs and
20
Ms. Cappleman decided that it was difficult to establish
21
probable cause, correct?
22
Correct.
23
And the burden of proof for criminal cases is
24
25
beyond a reasonable doubt, correct?

A
Correct.
198
You know that Mr. Meggs and Ms. Cappleman
publicly stated that part of the difficulty of the case
was poor police work done by the Tallahassee Police,
correct?
Correct.
They have said that?
Yes, they've said that.
And Ms. Cappleman even said that her
conclusion was that although she didn't feel that she
10
could prove a crime, she didn't necessarily believe that
11
he was innocent?
12
She did say that.
13
Okay.
14
Respondent?
15
We tried, yes.
16
And what happened then?
17
His attorney would not let us speak to him.
Did you ever attempt to interview
We spoke to his attorney.
18
COMPLAINANT:
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
20
Respondent, do you have any additional
21
Okay.
That's all.
Thank you.
Thank you.
questions?
22
MR. CORNWELL:
23
24
25
I doubt it, but let us check.
3:33 p.m. to 4:41 p.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:
Respondent, do you have any
199
additional questions?
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
much.
MS. EGAN:
JUSTICE HARDING:
No.
Thank you, sir.
MS. EGAN:
11
MR. CORNWELL:
Be safe.
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
16
17
Thank you for
everything.
15
Thank you.
Thank you.
12
14
You may be
excused.
10
Thank you very
Anyone else have questions?
All right.
I will.
All right.
Now, does the
Respondent have any additional witnesses?

MR. CORNWELL:
Besides a brief matter with
Respondent, no.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Now, Respondent, you
18
understand, as I previously indicated to you
19
earlier, that you have the right to remain silent
20
or speak, and answer or not answer any questions
21
that are posed to you.
22
You understand that?
23
RESPONDENT:
24
JUSTICE HARDING:
25
Yes, Your Honor.

And you also understand that
this is private and confidential and should remain

200
that way from this time forward even after this
proceeding is concluded.
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
Yes, Your Honor.
did earlier to tell the truth?
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
8
9
10
11
12
And you agree again as you
Yes, Your Honor.

All right.
Do you wish to
speak with him?

MR. CORNWELL:
Just have this marked and
entered.
RESPONDENT:
Okay.
Can I have these
statements marked and entered?
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
14
RESPONDENT:
15
MR. CORNWELL:
16
RESPONDENT:
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
MR. CORNWELL:
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
20
21
identification.)
22
RESPONDENT:
Which statements are those?
My statement.
From yesterday.
From yesterday.
This then would be --
Exhibit 9.
-- Exhibit 9.
I declare under a penalty of
23
perjury that my statement yesterday is true and
24
accurate to the best of my recollection.
25
And that's Exhibit 9.

201
JUSTICE HARDING:
RESPONDENT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
RESPONDENT:
And that is Exhibit 9.
Yes, sir.
Yes, Your Honor.
Okay.
From the Rule 6C2R-3.004(6)(d) of
the Florida State Student Code of Conduct I'm not
going to answer.
7
8
JUSTICE HARDING:
And so you're not going to
answer any additional questions?
RESPONDENT:
Yes, Your Honor.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
Well, first of all, let me ask if Complainant
12
has any questions.
13
COMPLAINANT:
14
JUSTICE HARDING:
15
Yes, we do.
All right.
You may ask
them.
16
COMPLAINANT:
17
MR. CORNWELL:
18
JUSTICE HARDING:
19
Just for the record --
sorry.
Okay.
One moment.
You ask them I thought.

Yes, that's right.
I'm
You must submit those in writing.
20
COMPLAINANT:
Oh, right.
21
JUSTICE HARDING:
22
you.
23
and I will ask them.
Okay.
I'm learning this along with
But you must submit those in writing to me
24
COMPLAINANT:
Okay.
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
So if you wish to go confer
202
1
2
3
with her, you may do so.

COMPLAINANT:
Yeah, could we have a few
moments to confer?
JUSTICE HARDING:
COMPLAINANT:
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. KERR:
You may.
Thank you.
Are you going to go down?
I will confer.
I believe that they
are not in printed form but email form and they can
be emailed.
10
11
But I may be able to save time to find out

first whether you intend to respond.
12
MR. CORNWELL:
13
invoking the Rule.
14
RESPONDENT:
15
MR. KERR:
He has already answered by

He does not.
I don't using the Rule.
I think I would like to confer, but
16
I believe what we would like to do in that case is
17
just submit them by email to everyone --
18
JUSTICE HARDING:
19
MR. KERR:
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
Very well.
-- as part of the record.

You may do so.
And we'll
21
put you on mute and you may confer with
22
Complainant.
23
24
25

3:45 p.m. to 4:53 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
On the record.
203
MR. KERR:
Just as I said before, to make a
record for the subjects, that Respondent is
refusing to address that we would --
MR. CORNWELL:
He is not refusing, he is
exercising his right under the Code not to answer
questions.
MR. KERR:
Please don't interrupt.
-- that Respondent is not addressing that we
would want to have had him address, we'll submit a
10
list of those questions by email to be made a part
11
of the record if that's okay.
12
JUSTICE HARDING:
13
marked as an exhibit.
14
15
18
They will be
(Complainant's Exhibit 10 will be marked for

identification.)
16
17
Very well.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q
All right.
I think it would be helpful, and I
19
understand you have exercised your right, and you may
20
continue to do so; but, from the purpose of helping the
21
decision maker to understand, the Complainant has
22
indicated that she continually resisted by saying no to
23
your sexual overtures, and you have indicated that she
24
gave consent.
25
And I would like to know in what manner,

204
verbally or physically, that she gave consent.
ask that with the understanding that you have previously
given.
Both, Your Honor, verbally and physically.
And what did she say and what did she do?
Moaning is mostly physically.
is physically.
8
9
And I
Well, moaning
And verbally at that time, Your Honor.
MS. BUKANC:
At what point?
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
10
Well, that was during the sexual encounter?
11
Yes, Your Honor.
12
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
All right.
Thank
you.
14
Anything further of Respondent?
15
I believe then that that concludes all of the
16
evidence.
17
Complainant and Respondent, have an opportunity to
18
give a brief closing statement.
19
20
21
And I believe under the Rules,
And, Counsel, you will have an opportunity to

submit a Proposed Order.
And we're changing the rules on the five days.
22
The five days will be five class days from the day
23
you receive the transcript.
24
by the court reporter that that will be Friday.
25
And we have been told
And so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

205
Friday of next week your Proposed Order will be
due.
understand.
And I just wanted to make sure you
And we have probably over-extended the Rules
by doing that, but we understand the concerns and
give you that.
7
8
9
And so with that, Counsel, would you like to

confer with your clients about a closing statement?
MR. KERR:
Complainant is ready to give hers.
10
And I believe I just learned from Dr. Bukanc that
11
she goes first.
12
MS. BUKANC:
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
14
Yes.
MR. KERR:
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
she were in the room.
You know, I guess we --
18
MR. KERR:
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
21
Complainant, you
may proceed.
15
20
Very well.
I think it would be good if
Yeah.
And, Respondent, you and
Mr. Cornwell can -MS. BUKANC:
If you will stay put for a minute
22
and we'll situate them in the room, and then Robyn
23
will come get you.
24
MS. EGAN:
25
Robyn will come get you when it's
time for you to switch.
Okay?
206
1
2
3
4

3:58 p.m. to 4:02 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
closing statement.
Are we back on?
MS. EGAN:
JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. LEVINE:
JUSTICE HARDING:
10
Complainant, you may make a
Yes.
COMPLAINANT:
Respondent, are you back on?
Yes, we're here.

Okay.
Your Honor, I would like to
11
thank you for giving your time and energy to my
12
case.
13
case due to the intense media, and I'm very
14
grateful that you're not one of them.
15
I know that many people have avoided this
Yesterday was both an empowering and also a
16
challenging day for me.
I don't know that I was
17
prepared to hear Respondent say the things that he
18
said.
19
opening statement was not true.
He knows what happened and he knows that his
20
It was hard testifying after hearing his
21
opening, but I hope my anxiety didn't preclude me
22
from giving you the answers you needed.
23
Respondent has suggested that I have made this
24
all up.
I cannot imagine why someone would ever do
25
that and go through all of this, and I certainly

207
haven't heard any explanation as to why I would
have done that two years ago when I did not even
know who the man was.
The truth is that I told police that I was
raped because that is what happened.
reality and something I will always have to live
with.
8
9
That is my
I remain hopeful that the outcome here will be

the right one.
Thank you again.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
Does Respondent wish to make a closing?
12
MR. CORNWELL:
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
14
COMPLAINANT:
15
MS. BUKANC:
16
JUSTICE HARDING:
17
22
23
Okay.
He will come up.
Thank you so much everyone.

Thank you.
Hang tight for a minute,

4:03 p.m. to 4:06 p.m.)
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A brief one.
please.
18
19
Thank you.
JUSTICE HARDING:
All right.
Let's go back
on.
All right.
Complainant, are you back on the
line?
24
COMPLAINANT:
Yes, sir.
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Respondent, you have
208
the right to make a closing statement.
2
3
RESPONDENT:
Your Honor, as I said, thank you
for agreeing to do this case.
During this process I have learned how vicious
this world can be.
Complainant.
7
8
JUSTICE HARDING:
RESPONDENT:
10
concluded.
Ms. Bukanc, is there anything that we need to
do?
MS. BUKANC:
John Clune has emailed us the
questions.
18
19
JUSTICE HARDING:
Those questions have been
emailed.
20
MS. BUKANC:
21
MR. CORNWELL:
22
Thank you very
And with that I take it these proceedings are
16
17
Very well.
much.
14
15
Yes, sir.
JUSTICE HARDING:
12
13
Okay.
Is that all you wish to say?
11
I did not sexually assault
That's what you wanted, right?

Emailed you?
Are we getting
it?
23
MS. BUKANC:
Someone can forward it.
24
MR. CORNWELL:
25
JUSTICE HARDING:
Oh, I got it.
Here we are.
They got it.
209
MS. BUKANC:
So just as a reminder, on Friday
we should be getting the transcripts.
after that you have five days to give the Judge --
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. BUKANC:
JUSTICE HARDING:
-- which will be next
Friday -MS. BUKANC:
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
Five school days --
Five school days, yes.
10
And then
Order.
Correct.
-- to submit a Proposed
And then I will have ten days after that.
MS. BUKANC:
And if there is any questions or
12
concerns in between, your point of contact is Robyn
13
or Carolyn.
14
MS. JACKSON:
If there are questions about
15
these proceedings you should probably direct those
16
to Justice Harding.
17
field questions about anything else.
18
19
RESPONDENT:
But, otherwise, I'm happy to
Your Honor, are those ten school
days after that or that was just ten days?
20
MS. BUKANC:
For him to make his decision?
21
RESPONDENT:
Yes.
22
MS. BUKANC:
Class days.
23
MS. EGAN:
24
MS. BUKANC:
25
Well, actually --
It's a maximum.
It's a maximum, but he could --
That's a good question you asked.

210
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. BUKANC:
It will be ten days.
Even when we're in times of
intersession, if we're not in classes, a Hearing
Officer can still render a decision during that
time period.
ten-day period.
So you still might get it before the
RESPONDENT:
Okay.
MS. BUKANC:
So, you know, we wouldn't want to
make anyone wait if the decision is already done.
10
JUSTICE HARDING:
11
MS. JACKSON:
Correct.
But any time period for an
12
appeal would not begin to run until the class days
13
start because appeal times are calculated by class
14
days.
15
MS. BUKANC:
16
MS. EGAN:
17
18
19
Right.
Which does not preclude anyone from
appealing earlier than that either.

MR. CORNWELL:
I don't know.
Do appeals stay in discipline?
I didn't see that.
20
MS. EGAN:
The Code answers that.
21
MR. CORNWELL:
22
MS. EGAN:
23
MR. CORNWELL:
24
MS. EGAN:
25
MR. CORNWELL:
Is it yes or no?
The Code does address that.

Is it yes or no?
The Code says it does.

Okay.
And I wasn't totally
211
clear.
or are you issuing recommendations to the President
and the Director of Students, Dean -- I forgot who
it was.
5
6
Is Justice Harding issuing a final ruling
MS. EGAN:
Rachel can probably answer that.
It will look just like any other finding letter.
MS. JACKSON:
a first level decision.
I think it will be -- it will be
JUSTICE HARDING:
It will be a decision that I
10
make in regard to the charges that have been
11
brought based on the evidence, and then you --
12
13
14
Well, the parties would have the opportunity

to appeal that decision.
MR. KERR:
And then the smallest of points.
15
Is the designation of the numbers of the
16
supplemental materials just for reference --
17
JUSTICE HARDING:
18
MR. KERR:
19
20
Yes.
-- purposes in the post hearing
submission?
MS. EGAN:
What I think would make the most
21
sense to me, but I'm a little compulsive about
22
this, is to continue at the back of -- pick up at
23
73 and sequentially number everything from there
24
with your supplemental materials.
25
most sense to me but...
That makes the
212
JUSTICE HARDING:
In other words, just
indicate Tab 73 contains the supplemental
materials.
4
5
6
7
MS. EGAN:
I guess it will be 74, because I
think 73 is the last one in there.

JUSTICE HARDING:
minute.
Seventy-two is my -- wait a
Oh, my goodness, yes.
MS. EGAN:
Seventy-four will be that.
MR. KERR:
Okay.
10
supplementals followed by the Respondent's?
11
MS. BUKANC:
12
MS. EGAN:
13
JUSTICE HARDING:
Yes.
That makes sense to me.
14
in this same folder.
15
MS. EGAN:
16
17
18
And then the Complainant's
And that will keep them all
Not have two number 2s.
That gets
confused.
JUSTICE HARDING:
Okay.
Very well.
Thank you
very much.
19
MR. KERR:
Thank you.
20
JUSTICE HARDING:
21
pleasure working with you.
22
courtesies.
23
in due course.
And, Counsel, it's been a

And thank you for your
And we will get this matter resolved
24
MR. CORNWELL:
25
RESPONDENT:
Thank you, Your Honor.
Thank you.
213
MR. KERR:
Thank you, Your Honor.
MS. JACKSON:
Thank you, everyone.
COMPLAINANT:
Thank you.
(The proceedings were concluded at 4:10 p.m.)
5
6
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9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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214
1
2
HEARING CERTIFICATE
STATE OF FLORIDA
3
4
)
)SS:
COUNTY OF LEON
5
6
I, KIMBERLY S. BARTHOLOMEW, Professional Court
Reporter and Notary Public, hereby certify that I was
authorized and did stenographically report the foregoing
proceedings and that this transcript is a true record of
10
the proceedings before the Panel and Justice Harding.
11
I further certify that I am not a relative,
12
employee, attorney or counsel for any of the parties nor
13
am I a relative or employee of any of the parties;
14
attorney of counsel connected with the action, nor am I
15
financially interested in the action.
16
Dated this 4th day of December, 2014.
17
18
19
20
My commission
21
expires: 2/23/18
_______________________________
KIMBERLY S. BARTHOLOMEW,
Professional Court Reporter
Notary Public, State of Florida
Notary #FF080212
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CONFIDENTIAL

FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY

Wednesday December 3, 2014

Commenced at 9:20 a.m.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

Justice Major Harding

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

GORDON & REES, LLP

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

Direct Examination by Justice Major Harding

Cross Examination by Complainant

Cross Examination by Respondent

Redirect Examination by Justice Major Harding

Recross Examination by Complainant

Direct Examination by Justice Major Harding

Cross Examination by Complainant

Officer Dinorah Harris

Direct Examination by Complainant

Cross Examination by Respondent

Direct Examination on behalf of Complainant

Cross Examination on behalf of Respondent

Redirect Examination by Complainant

Direct Examination by Complainant

Cross Examination by Respondent

Direct Examination by Complainant

Cross Examination by Respondent

Officer Jason Newlin

Direct Examination by Respondent

Cross Examination by Complainant

(Exhibits retained by Justice Harding)

The following proceedings were had:

We have two University witnesses

left this morning.

get them on the phone?

Should we get them on

the phone so they will be advised, too?

Yeah, they might as well listen in

Good morning, it's Robyn.

Yeah, she should hear.

How are you?

We are just going to talk

Wanted to make sure you all were

we going to go, Robyn?

Well, we have two

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

University witnesses left this morning.

Witness Four by phone and then we have Witness Five

who should be here in person.

After that we would move into Complainant's

witnesses starting with Officer Harris, continuing

with Witness Six,

I think that puts us somewhere around early

Take a break for lunch.

can get into Respondent's witnesses this afternoon

in the order that they were given to us which is

Ms. Parmalee, Officer Angulo, Officer Osborn,

Investigator Newlin, Mr. Roberts, and

Officer Angulo, Investigator Newlin,

Mr. Roberts, and Mr. Goldberger will all be by

(A brief discussion was held off the record.)

You indicated yesterday that

you were calling Respondent as a University

Are you not doing that?

I don't know if I indicated