Beruflich Dokumente
Kultur Dokumente
txt
0001
1
2
3
4
ADVISORY BOARD
5
6 DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND
7
NATURAL RESOURCES
8
9 INTERNATIONAL MOTORS SPORTS
10
HALL OF FAME AND MUSEUM
11
12
May 21, 2005 - 9:00 a.m.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
0002
1
APPEARANCES
2
3 ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE:
4
Mr. Bill Hatley
5
Mr. Ross M. Self
6
Dr. Gaines Smith
7
Dr. Wayne May
8
Mr. Louis Coles
9
Mr. Barnett Lawley, Commissioner
10
Dr. Warren Strickland
11
Mr. W. Grant Lynch
12
Mr. James W. Porter, II
13
Mr. Johnny M. Johnson
14
Mr. George Harbin
15
16
17
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (1 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
18
19
20
21
22
23
0003
1
INDEX
2
3 CALL TO ORDER............... 4
4 INVOCATION.................. 4
5 INTRODUCTION OF
6 BOARD MEMBERS............. 4
7 APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF
8 LAST MEETINGS............. 6
9 PUBLIC HEARING.............. 7
10 DCNR DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS.. 96
11 DISTRICT REPORTS.......... 122
12 NEW BUSINESS.............. 152
13 SELECTION OF DATE
14 AND LOCATION............ 154
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
0004
1 May 21, 2005
9:00 a.m.
2
3
CALL TO ORDER
4
5
MR. COLES: I'd like to call the
6 meeting of the May 21st meeting of the
7 Conservation Advisory Board. And no. I am
8 not Dan Moultrie. Mr. Moultrie has a family
9 conflict today and will not be present with
10 us. And at this time, I'd like to call on
11 Mr. Johnny Johnson to give us our invocation.
12
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (2 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
13
INVOCATION
14
15 (Whereupon, the invocation was given by Mr.
16 Johnny Johnson.)
17
18
INTRODUCTION OF BOARD MEMBERS
19
20
MR. COLES: We'll now have the
21 introduction of the Board members by
22 Commissioner Lawley.
23
MR. LAWLEY: Thank you, sir. First
0005
1 of all, I want to thank Grant Lynch and the
2 Talladega Superspeedway for hosting this
3 meeting. It's a beautiful facility and if
4 you have time after the meeting to ride
5 around and look at this whole racetrack, it's
6 phenomenal. It's such an asset to this area
7 and where I live, also. It's very important
8 to us.
9
I'd like to introduce the Board members
10 in attendance. Bill Hatley, Ross Self, Dr.
11 Gaines Smith, Dr. Wayne May, Louis Coles,
12 Grant Lynch, Jim Porter, Johnny Johnson and
13 George Harbin.
14
We also have a new member today that is
15 taking a turn for Mr. Bud Willis who served
16 this advisory board very well in the State of
17 Alabama and did a good job. His term was up.
18 Dr. Warren Strickland was appointed by the
19 Governor and this is his meeting.
20
Dr. Strickland is a lifelong bow hunter.
21 He started bow hunting with his father when
22 he was twelve years old in Arkansas. You may
23 have seen him on TV. I have several times on
0006
1 Mossy Oak shows. His knowledge of hunting,
2 his knowledge of biology and habitats will be
3 a tremendous asset to this Board.
4
He's very active with the Boy Scouts.
5 He's an outdoor person and that's what we
6 really need as we all have our love in our
7 hearts for the outdoors.
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (3 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
8
He's a very successful cardiologist and
9 heart surgeon in Huntsville, Alabama.
10 Warren, we are happy to have you aboard.
11 Thank you.
12
13
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF LAST MEETINGS
14
15
MR. COLES: Next item on the agenda
16 is the approval of the minutes of the last
17 meetings of February and March.
18
UNIDENTIFIED BOARD MEMBER: So
19 moved.
20
UNIDENTIFIED BOARD MEMBER:
21 Seconded.
22
MR. COLES: We have a motion to
23 second. All Board members in favor please
0007
1 signify by raising your right hand. Motion
2 carries.
3
MS. ROBIN: I'll have him to repeat
4 that.
5
6
PUBLIC HEARING
7
8
MR. COLES: The next item on the
9 agenda is the public hearing section of our
10 meeting. And before we get started, I'd like
11 to call your attention as you signed up to
12 speak on the sign-in sheet, down at the
13 bottom, there was a little disclaimer. It
14 says: I agree to provide only truthful and
15 factual information to the Board.
16
Felt like this was necessary. Sometimes,
17 we, as Board members, sit here and we have to
18 determine whether the information that's
19 given is factual or a fabrication or
20 exaggerated or what. And so we ask that you
21 abide by this.
22
Under the miscellaneous topic -- and,
23 please, bear with me as I try to pronounce
0008
1 these names. Mr. Kevin Archie from Kinslin,
2 Alabama. Is Mr. Archie here?
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (4 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
3
MR. JONES: (Inaudible.)
4
5 (Whereupon, the court reporter indicated that
6 the speaker could not be heard. Adjustments
7 to the microphone system were made.)
8
9
MR. JONES: Good morning,
10 Gentlemen. Thank y'all for allowing us to
11 speak today. I want to welcome the new
12 member Mr. Strickland. Thank you for
13 accepting the job where it's impossible to
14 make everybody happy.
15
Kevin Archie could not be here today. He
16 is the president of the Alabama Muzzleloader
17 Association. His two daughters are playing
18 their final t-ball game this morning. Asked
19 me to speak for him.
20
He basically just wanted me to tell y'all
21 thank y'all. They really appreciate the
22 opportunity y'all have done. Didn't have any
23 complaints about any of y'all or anything
0009
1 that y'all have done. May be the only group
2 today that you hear that from.
3
Their membership is expanding. Enjoyed
4 the days they had of hunting last year. The
5 only thing Kevin brought up to ask -- or told
6 me to ask y'all about was Youth Day this year
7 is on November 12th. And then the
8 muzzleloader season is coming in from the
9 14th to the 18th if I understand it correctly
10 which is a Monday through Friday before
11 regular gun season came in.
12
The reason for asking is if y'all would
13 consider either having a Youth Day on the
14 12th and the 13th for us who have two kids
15 like he does. We have to figure out which
16 one gets to shoot first. Or opening the
17 muzzleloading season possibly on the 13th
18 where the folks who do like to use the
19 muzzleloaders would have one week -- at least
20 one day on the weekend of season like
21 everybody else does. If you would consider
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (5 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
5
I'm Grady Hartzog. I'm from Eufaula,
6 Alabama. I'm a lifelong resident of Barbour
7 County. I'm on the executive board of the
8 Wildlife Federation. I'm here today to ask
9 you to vote for the three point rule. The
10 Wildlife Federation -- y'all have a letter on
11 your desk where the Wildlife Federation has
12 endorsed the five year study in which to do
13 the three point antler rule.
14
If you remember, I was here in February
15 before the Board and the Chamber of Commerce
16 had done a survey. Came out ninety plus
17 percent was in favor. The State came down,
18 Gary Moody and the biologists and did a
19 survey in Slyol (phonetically spelled) and
20 Clayton and Eufaula and y'all have got a copy
21 of those results.
22
And from a biological standpoint, from a
23 management standpoint, the biggest thing I
0034
1 see in this thing is the -- it's shown that
2 the studies that were done on management
3 areas, we have a tremendous increase in doe
4 take. We feel like that biological reason
5 alone is enough to pass this thing in order
6 to get the herds a better ratio.
7
But I just -- you guys (inaudible) but
8 one of the comments that was done and y'all
9 have got the copies of this but it says -10 and I think this is a good comment. It says:
11 Let's allow Barbour County to set the new
12 standards for the state of Alabama in
13 harvesting quality bucks. I'd like to just
14 ask for your support in passing this rule.
15 Thank you. Any questions?
16
MR. COLES: Thank you, Mr. Hartzog.
17
18 (Whereupon, Robin indicated that the speaker
19 would need to speak into a microphone.)
20
21
MR. PORTER: Grady, in the handouts
22 that I've looked at that you've given us,
23 y'all have stated seven objectives that
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (19 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
0035
1 you're trying to achieve as stated in those
2 handouts.
3
MR. HARTZOG: The objective is how
4 to better help your herd. In order to do
5 that, allow the younger bucks to walk to
6 mature to get in that breeding class, the A
7 class in which to breed. And, also, from the
8 next standpoint, to reduce the doe buck
9 ratio. Probably Barbour County has the
10 eight/ten doe/buck ratio. And, you know,
11 anybody who reads any management on deer, you
12 know, the proper ratio should be one and a
13 half to two for one so I mean if nothing else
14 it's that doe ratio.
15
MR. PORTER: And the other question
16 I had that I didn't see it unless I
17 overlooked it was what type of recordkeeping
18 or records in reporting do y'all recommend be
19 done to be able to measure the actual program
20 itself?
21
MR. HARTZOG: We have talked about
22 using statistical samples and having
23 different plugs to pull y'all along the way
0036
1 just like they've done in the previous
2 quality deer management. We feel like that
3 if we get enough clubs spread throughout the
4 county and with the deer harvesters that we
5 feel like the biologists can get a good
6 enough representative sample to determine
7 whether or not the public (inaudible). And
8 like I said, all this is is a request for a
9 five-year trial. If it works, it works. If
10 it doesn't, it doesn't. But if we don't try
11 it, we know it won't ever work.
12
MR. STRICKLAND: All right. Let me
13 ask you a question.
14
MR. HARTZOG: Yes, sir.
15
MR. STRICKLAND: What kind of
16 support do you have from the local hunters?
17
MR. HARTZOG: When the Chamber of
18 Commerce -- when this first came out, what -file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (20 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
12 Cullman, County.
13
I'm very much against horn restrictions.
14 I've been president of this club for about
15 eighteen years. At one time, we set our own
16 restrictions four points or better on our
17 club. We did this for five years. In five
18 years' time, we had messed up four points,
19 cow horn spikes and four and five and six
20 year old deer. And we went back to taking
21 these deer. And till this day, we are still
22 taking five and six-year-old deer cow horn
23 spikes.
0057
1
And the weight we're up to after about
2 five years -- the weight dropped off and we'd
3 wait every year and record every deer. We've
4 done it for the past fifteen years. We could
5 see what we're doing on our property and
6 we've managed it to the best of our knowledge
7 to what works for us.
8
Everything doesn't work for every area.
9 And we need to keep this up to the individual
10 landowners. And that's all I have to say.
11 Thank you.
12
MR. COLES: Thank you, Mr. Hawkins.
13 Next we'll hear from Dale Jones.
14
MR. JONES: Good morning. My name
15 is Dale Jones. Again, I live in Jefferson
16 County, Alabama. I primarily hunt in
17 southeast Alabama. I'd like to thank our
18 members for being here today. Mr. Lawley,
19 I'd like to thank you for the work you've
20 done along with the Board members and our new
21 member. Robin, where's she at? I'd like to
22 thank her. She makes things work. If you
23 call down there to Montgomery and you ask to
0058
1 speak to somebody, if she tells they're going
2 to call you back, they're going to call you
3 back.
4
And the other officers of the
5 Conservation and Natural Resources we have
6 here today, I thank you for all that y'all
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (32 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
15
MR. HOLLAND: I'm Noble Holland
16 from Coffee County. (inaudible) the earlier
17 meeting in Montgomery (inaudible) eighteen
18 landowners bought thirty-five acres of land
19 (inaudible) on just our land (inaudible).
20 I've heard that it was not passed but any
21 consideration in the future, we'd like to
22 have that (inaudible). We need more
23 signatures but that was ninety-five percent
0073
1 of the landowners. Thank you.
2
MR. COLES: Thank you, Mr. Holland.
3 Next we'll hear from Paul and Larry Jefferys,
4 Detroit, Alabama.
5
MR. JEFFREYS: (Inaudible.)
6
7 (Whereupon, Board members and the court
8 reporter indicated that the speaker could not
9 be heard. Adjustments were made to the
10 microphone system.)
11
12
MR. JEFFREYS: Okay. I'm Larry
13 Jeffreys from Lamar County and I want to take
14 this time to thank y'all for the land that
15 y'all granted us and it does work. We were
16 living in a nightmare and it's over now. All
17 those clubs that (inaudible) still running
18 dogs and I just want to thank you for that.
19
Thank you for the lady. I am so sorry
20 for her husband. But I want (inaudible)
21 better joy for me than when I just
22 (inaudible) watch the deer without being
23 harassed by dogs. And I'm truly sorry for
0074
1 your husband.
2
MR. JEFFREYS: (Inaudible.)
3
4 (Whereupon, Board members indicated that the
5 speaker could not be heard. Adjustments to
6 the microphone system were made.)
7
8
MR. JEFFREYS: Three years ago this
9 month, we received a ban for dog deer hunting
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (41 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
5
And I'm a dog hunter and I'll tell you
6 what. These people that comes up here on
7 these complaints, they should have a -- ain't
8 it a public record where they filed
9 complaints? Or so many people that, you
10 know, was convicted or something for
11 trespassing, talking, you know, about the
12 dogs or something. Could they do that and
13 bring y'all the proof? Instead of coming
14 down here and -- well, I ain't got no proof
15 in my pocket either.
16
But if you wanted -- like I say, if they
17 want to shoot a three point or above on one
18 side, let them shoot. Don't make me have to
19 do that. It's hard for me to pick one that
20 might have one on the other side.
21
And I wanted to go to about the turkey
22 hunting. Making the turkey hunter see a
23 half-inch spur. That would be pretty hard to
0077
1 do, wouldn't it? You can't do it. But I
2 guess I'm through. Thank you.
3
MR. COLES: Next is Joy Grubbs from
4 Piedmont.
5
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's passing.
6
MR. COLES: She's passing? Our
7 good friend Mr. Wynnton Melton, Geneva,
8 Alabama.
9
MR. MELTON: Thank you. Always
10 good to be here. I have followed this Board
11 around for about thirty-five years now and I
12 must say this is the first place I've ever
13 been in where speed's considered to be a good
14 thing. But it's always interesting and you
15 learn a lot. I am Geneva County of
16 representative Fleming Farm Hunter's Club
17 which is primarily a dog hunting club. We
18 also hunt (inaudible). Some black powder and
19 just all the methods but I have for these
20 many years being in support of hunting with
21 dogs regardless of the (inaudible) pursuing.
22 And I've seen a lot of the same things over
23 and over again.
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (43 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
0078
1
But, you know, all of the hullaboo that's
2 going on in England now. They did stop the
3 deer, the fox and the hare hunting in
4 England. And it's been just really really
5 hubaloo going on over there and arguing for
6 some time now, for several years. And, of
7 course, that's probably the oldest
8 traditional area for hunting with hounds that
9 we're familiar with.
10
However, it goes back to the Mesopotamian
11 era about seven thousand years ago and
12 (inaudible) Europeans brought their hounds
13 over and into this country. George
14 Washington, Thomas Jefferson. They were all
15 great hounders. It's a grand sport. It's
16 been there for many many years and I just
17 want to see us continue all of the good hound
18 hunting sports.
19
Now we are under a permit system in
20 Geneva County which we voluntarily went to
21 and it helped with the -- we sat down with
22 all sides of the issue. Those that were
23 opposed to the dog deer hunting, those that
0079
1 supported it and the middle mediator to try
2 to chisel out something that will work for
3 all of us and it's working fairly well.
4 (inaudible) a couple problems that are very
5 difficult to always have and that comes with
6 always having the dogs under control.
7
Intent needs to be laid somewhere some
8 way and the extent of the abuse needs to be
9 there some way because if you ever release a
10 hound, you're not sure what he's going to do.
11 No matter how well trained he is, no matter
12 how disciplined you are, the dog can get away
13 and if a dog just rumbles up to somebody's
14 (inaudible) and they're anti and they're on a
15 crusade, they get the dog, they call the game
16 warden. You've got to go retrieve the dog.
17 And issues can come up because people are
18 very sensitive about their hunting dogs as
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (44 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
4
Getting back to the point of my oldest
5 son. I can say this. I'm a proud father.
6 You know what? He's a deputy sheriff of
7 Jefferson County. I can say my son is not
8 in the criminal element. Why? Because I
9 have taken him as a youth and provided him
10 with direction. If you limit these things,
11 you're going to start having criminal
12 activity.
13
We all know every show we have in Alabama
14 that talks about deer hunting talks about
15 take a youth. Take a kid fishing. Take a
16 kid hunting. It's about society. We need to
17 make sure that we honor that.
18
The dog hunting. Everyone of us that
19 are dog hunters have a lot of pride. We
20 spend a lot of money on our animals. We care
21 a lot about our dogs. We care about other
22 people's opinion. But we also want to be
23 able to continue doing what we enjoy.
0086
1
Not everyone enjoys dog hunting. I bow
2 hunt. I black powder hunt. And I dog hunt.
3 So the ones who don't like dog hunting, allow
4 them to hunt at different times but don't
5 eliminate dogs and don't restrict us with a
6 minimal amount of points to kill a deer.
7
I can honestly say being a retired police
8 officer, I will not violate the law. But
9 when this child is standing next to me and
10 I'm holding the gun and she wants to pull the
11 trigger on a deer and it's not three on one
12 side, go ahead and cite me. Because I am not
13 going to deprive her of that. Okay.
14
The other thing that I will ask since
15 Barbour County said that they had a ninety
16 percent opinion poll that wanted the three
17 point rule, have they decided that they're
18 willing to accept the liability in that
19 county and pay the insurance or is the State
20 of Alabama going to absorb that?
21
Because we all know that if we continue
22 doing that, we're going to have
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (48 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
1
MR. MOODY: I think I'm following
2 you on that. Certainly, this restriction
3 does not directly affect the doe harvest in
4 any way. And that's one of the things that
5 we discussed at a couple of the meetings when
6 the question came up. Doing this will -7 does not have any direct implication on the
8 doe harvest. It's still got to be a
9 commitment on the part of the landowners to
10 properly harvest their deer herds which
11 includes harvesting does. And if they're not
12 going to do that, this one thing will not
13 make any changes on anybody's land.
14
So whether you're a club or whether it's
15 mandatory, voluntary, whatever, you've got to
16 be committed to doing more than just doing
17 this. Doing this by itself will not make
18 (inaudible).
19
MR. PORTER: And at the present
20 time, there's no restrictions on how you
21 manage the deer herd. You've got a whole
22 universe of different management techniques.
23 And this would be a restriction. Is there
0113
1 anything biologically related to the resource
2 in Barbour County that would support a
3 restriction of how you manage your deer herd
4 down there?
5
MR. MOODY: We don't have the data
6 to totally answer that question. Probably
7 there's a lot of people already managing with
8 some kind of harvest restriction in Barbour
9 County. And a lot of people came to these
10 meetings. I talked to most of them
11 individually at least to some extent. Didn't
12 have a chance to talk to all them but there's
13 a whole variety of things going on in Barbour
14 County right now as all across the state.
15
I wish we had enough data that I could
16 answer that question just exactly. We don't
17 think that there is any critical need in any
18 part of our state to take any forcible action
19 or else we would be leading the charge to
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (63 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
20 recommend that.
21
We do believe that what we've done in the
22 management areas have showed positive results
23 and we're pleased with that. Trying to
0114
1 extrapolate that data to other areas
2 especially those areas that have already been
3 managed QDM is not directly applicable
4 because they've already made some changes and
5 seen some changes and they're not going to
6 see the dramatic changes that we saw in areas
7 like the management areas that (inaudible).
8
But we don't have the data set to say -9 to answer your question technically either
10 way. We don't see a (inaudible).
11
MR. LYNCH: Gary, one of the things
12 that came up earlier in this meeting was an
13 issue about people that aren't from Barbour
14 County that lease land. And looking at your
15 report, the way I understand it, about a
16 third of the people that filled it out own
17 their land and then a third lease or lease
18 and own some land. So about two thirds of
19 the people don't own all the land they're
20 running on.
21
MR. MOODY: Yeah. And that
22 question was -- the question that you just
23 addressed was discussed after the Eufaula
0115
1 meeting I believe it was (inaudible). And,
2 you know, we see how we advertised it
3 (inaudible) only one TV show in Dothan and
4 most of the rest of the public within the
5 county and I don't know any better way to do
6 it on an issue like this.
7
MR. LYNCH: And when they went to
8 the antler restrictions on the management
9 area in Barbour County, did the harvesting of
10 does increase there after that or do we have
11 those statistics?
12
MR. MOODY: Yeah. We've got those
13 and, Bill, correct me if I'm wrong but from
14 memory, wasn't it six percent? Is that
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (64 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
15 right?
16
BILL: Six percent over a five year
17 period.
18
MR. MOODY: Over a five year
19 period, got a six percent increase. So it
20 was not a dramatic increase. But at the same
21 time, to help make that happen or help
22 provide that opportunity, we've been much
23 more
0116
1 liberal in our seasons on does on wildlife
2 management areas than we were prior to. So
3 we took some positive steps.
4
And that won't happen in the county so
5 that's what we (inaudible) to say just doing
6 this will automatically increase the doe
7 harvest because we've been very liberal in
8 the county already on doe harvesting. And
9 that choice is all there with that. So if
10 that's the reason, we've got to be a little
11 careful about using one data collection
12 method to recommend a comparison.
13
MR. LYNCH: And in a situation like
14 this where if you could set up a system where
15 you could monitor how it's working in the
16 county, is it beneficial to the department to
17 have a county that could serve as a trial
18 county and a management practice system such
19 as this where you could study over a two,
20 three, four, five year period such as this is
21 suggested and then adapt from that in your
22 statewide management practices?
23
MR. MOODY: Yes. But if we were
0117
1 going to do anything, obviously, in my
2 opinion, it would be better generally to
3 start with small and work our way larger.
4 Philosophically, (inaudible) whether you do
5 something voluntarily or mandatory. That's
6 what (inaudible).
7
MR. PORTER: Thank you.
8
MR. STRICKLAND: Gary, let me just
9 clarify a couple of points. What is the
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (65 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
5
So given the fact that I think we can get
6 there doing that although it may be a little
7 bit slower, that would be my preference.
8
MR. STRICKLAND: One other
9 question. Let's say this rule becomes in
10 effect. It's for five years (inaudible).
11
MR. MOODY: Well, whatever the
12 polls have made. That's my understanding.
13 We're talking about a five year harvest
14 restriction.
15
MR. STRICKLAND: Would we have the
16 ability to say in two or three years, we
17 decide we want to make some modifications,
18 maybe increase the doe harvest or is this
19 pretty much the law for five years?
20
MR. MOODY: It will be in place for
21 five years because it's a provision that we
22 discussed in all the meetings and what I
23 would hope would come out of anything that
0120
1 may come out of here would be the opportunity
2 for tweaking it as necessary as we go along
3 and as we look at data and as we observe.
4 The experiment will be for five years but
5 with the opportunity to make some changes as
6 we would go along.
7
MR. STRICKLAND: So you mean this
8 would be a good start (inaudible)?
9
MR. MOODY: I just gave you my
10 personal opinion on that.
11
MR. STRICKLAND: Thank you.
12
MR. COLES: Corky, are you going to
13 give the department's position on that
14 subject?
15
MR. PUGH: Well, it's not my
16 perogative to state the department's
17 position. Only the Commissioner can do that.
18 But I can give you my personal professional
19 opinion.
20
I don't envy the Board. This is a tough
21 decision point that you find yourselves at.
22 You've got a group of dedicated
23 conservationists from Barbour County who
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (67 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
0121
1 sincerely believe that this is the right
2 thing to do.
3
But the crux of the matter is whether or
4 not their opinion represents the opinion of
5 the majority of the hunters in that county.
6 Or really all the hunters in that county.
7 Because right now, people have a choice. The
8 decision that is made by this Board once
9 adopted and promulgated by the Commissioner
10 is regulation and enforceable as the law.
11 That means that people who don't abide by
12 that would become law violators and get
13 arrested.
14
Like Gary, philosophically, I tend to
15 believe that the more choice people have, the
16 less Government intervention that's being
17 imposed on people, the better off we are.
18 We've accomplished a tremendous amount of
19 progress in this state though education.
20
If you look at the material on QDM, again
21 and again what you see is voluntary restraint
22 on buck harvest. What you see again and
23 again is educate, don't regulate. So I don't
0122
1 envy you in the decision point that you are
2 in because you have some very dedicated
3 people who are great conservationists who
4 want to do this.
5
But when you look at guiding philosophies
6 behind the whole conservation movement in
7 this state, and it really had its basis at
8 the national level, back in the early early
9 days, you do what's in the best interest of
10 the resource first and then you do what's in
11 the greatest good for the most people in the
12 long run.
13
And the really important part of that is
14 "the most people." If we begin regulating in
15 a way that favors the most avid, the most
16 committed hunters, the most knowledgeable
17 hunters, the most experienced hunters, then
18 we're regulating in a way that takes away
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (68 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
13
MR. COLES: Mr. Harbin.
14
MR. HARBIN: Yes, sir.
15
MR. COLES: Due to the fact that in
16 District Four, we haven't had any discussions
17 or any meetings held to try to reach an
18 agreement between the two different parties,
19 I see no reason to make any changes in
20 District Four.
21
MR. COLES: District Six. Mr.
22 Porter.
23
MR. PORTER: Thank you, Mr.
0134
1 Chairman. Of course, my district includes
2 the major (inaudible) area in the state. The
3 overwhelming issue up there is the Oak
4 Mountain State Park and it's condition and
5 also the deer herd. And I think Commissioner
6 Lawley has done excellent (inaudible) to say
7 the least in getting all those diverse
8 interests somewhat pulling in one direction
9 and I think we're seeing a lot of progress.
10
And I want to thank the Commissioner for
11 all the work that he's done to pull in all of
12 these very diverse interests to try to get
13 them going in one direction which is what is
14 the best interest of that resource there.
15
And that's the main issue that comes to
16 my attention on a daily basis. So that's all
17 of my report.
18
MR. COLES: Mr. Johnson.
19
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Coles.
20 District Seven has been mighty quiet seems
21 like this time but a few things that I've
22 been involved with is listening to a number
23 of landowners out there and getting their
0135
1 feel of our programs that we have going on at
2 the present time. Also, I visited with a
3 number of hunting clubs, a number of
4 conservation officers and also assisted in
5 planting some food plots and so forth.
6
As I said, it's been very quiet and we
7 appreciate all the work that's being done.
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (75 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
8 Thank you.
9
MR. COLES: Dr. May represents
10 District Seven.
11
DR. MAY: There wasn't really a lot
12 going on in District Seven as far as
13 complaints (inaudible) recommendations during
14 this period.
15
I did meet with Jeff Mason who is the
16 biologist with District Three. And I think
17 he comes out of District Three. That's where
18 his headquarters are.
19
In our discussion, he's involved in a
20 project that's a national banding process of
21 doves. And if I can just help some
22 (inaudible) and that is survival rate and
23 hatching rate and (inaudible) rate. But the
0136
1 hunters, we, as hunters, are critical in this
2 project because if he doesn't get the returns
3 on these bandings, he's not going to have
4 much to prove. As a hunter, you need to if
5 you kill doves with a band on them, you need
6 to return them or notify him. You can reach
7 him at the District Three office.
8
There's twenty-seven states involved in
9 this. I think it's twenty-nine now. So
10 there's two more joined in. Seventeen are in
11 the eastern management area which Alabama is
12 in and Tennessee and Georgia.
13
But I think he said that they banded like
14 three thousand birds in the last two years.
15 But they're only getting about fifty percent
16 reporting rate and that's why I stress as a
17 hunter, contact Mr. Mason so he'll know what
18 -- find out what's a viable rate and hatching
19 rates. So if you want to contact him, he's
20 at the District Three office.
21
MR. COLES: Thank you, Dr. May.
22 Dr. Smith, do you want to make some comments?
23
DR. SMITH: Yes. I have a brief
0137
1 comment I'd like to make. It's to pick up on
2 some comments Commissioner Lawley has made
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (76 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
22 carries.
23
MR. HATLEY: Thank you.
0139
1
MR. COLES: Mr. Hatley, would you
2 take the Chair? I have some motions, please.
3
MR. HATLEY: Sure. Chair
4 recognizes Mr. Coles.
5
MR. COLES: Thank you. I come to
6 you today, Ladies and Gentlemen, with egg on
7 my face. I, too, have made a mistake in that
8 the information that I received was
9 misunderstood on my part and I am here to
10 correct an injustice upon some doe deer
11 hunters that have not been part of the
12 problem, have not had any tickets, have not
13 had any complaints upon them.
14
And this motion that I'm making is to
15 correct a closure in Coffee County that was
16 made at Joe Wheeler State Park at the March
17 meeting.
18
The motion is: That the area of Coffee
19 County that lies within these boundaries from
20 the Covington County line, east on State
21 Highway 134 to its intersection with State
22 Highway 87, north on Highway 87 to its
23 intersection with US Highway 84, west on US
0140
1 84, to its intersection with State Highway
2 189 South, south on State Highway 189 to its
3 intersection with State Highway 141, north on
4 State Highway 141 to its intersection with US
5 Highway 84 and west on US Highway 84 to the
6 Covington County line be restricted to Stalk
7 hunting only for the purposes of deer
8 hunting.
9
This closure is in lieu of the previous
10 Coffee County closure motion that was
11 approved at the March 2005 Advisory Board
12 Meeting and does not affect any other
13 previous closures.
14
MR. HATLEY: We have a motion. Do
15 we have a second?
16
MR. JOHNSON: (Raises hand.)
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (78 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
17
MR. HATLEY: Mr. Johnson seconds
18 the motion. Is there any discussion?
19
DR. SMITH: I have a question.
20 Louis, what this is doing is actually
21 redefining the area that's affected by it,
22 right?
23
MR. COLES: That is correct. The
0141
1 information that I misunderstood came from
2 (inaudible) one club in this area and it
3 turns out there are four clubs in this area
4 and the other clubs have not been giving any
5 problems.
6
MR. HATLEY: Any further
7 discussion? Without having Mr. Coles to -8
MR. COLES: You should have a copy
9 of it there. They'll need you to read it
10 back.
11
MR. HATLEY: I didn't have a copy
12 of that motion.
13
MR. COLES: Excuse me.
14
MR. HATLEY: I think everyone
15 understood the motion.
16
MR. COLES: And I hope I didn't get
17 anybody dizzy by all those turns.
18
MR. HATLEY: I don't see the need
19 of repeating all of this. Therefore, the
20 Chair calls for the question on the motion.
21 With no further discussion, all in favor
22 signify by raising your hand. All opposed.
23 Motion carries.
0142
1
MR. COLES: The other motion I have
2 pertains to the Barbour County proposal that
3 was before us. In attending these meetings,
4 I talked to -- those that attended were
5 overwhelmingly in favor of it. And I think
6 some of the questions that were asked will be
7 answered in this motion.
8
So the motion is: Except on the
9 statewide special youth deer hunting date,
10 the harvest of white-tailed deer bucks in
11 Barbour County will be limited to those with
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (79 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
7
It's interesting to note that no one here
8 today from Barbour County spoke against this
9 proposal. A lot of the questions were raised
10 about never being told or whatnot. Chairman,
11 Ladies and Gentlemen, I've hunted in
12 Arkansas, Texas, Mississippi, Kentucky,
13 Georgia, Colorado, up in Missouri, in
14 Illinois and I have never never been told
15 about the hunting regulations in those states
16 if I don't come down there hunting in those
17 states.
18
The low attendance at the meetings, yes,
19 I was disappointed in the attendance. But,
20 Mr. Porter, you mentioned this a couple of
21 times. I dare say that my preacher was
22 disappointed at the attendance last Sunday at
23 his 11:00 o'clock service.
0145
1
The data collection will be left up to
2 the Wildlife Services. This only affects
3 Barbour County. It does not affect any other
4 county in the State. I don't have any idea
5 what the (inaudible) are in Cullman County or
6 Cleburne County or Choctaw County or any
7 other county except those counties in my
8 district that I try to attune to their needs.
9 And so I will leave that decision up to the
10 other members of this board representing
11 other counties in this state.
12
It was also pointed out in these meetings
13 that if you shoot anything with less than
14 three points that you would be a law
15 violator. Everybody heard that discussion
16 and there was a lot of discussion about that.
17
Last year's game harvest survey consisted
18 of seventy-two hundred and thirty-four
19 surveys randomly sent in three repeat
20 mailings. Fifty-nine hundred and seventeen
21 were confirmed as received by the addressee
22 of those and thirty-eight hundred and
23 forty-five were returned. There were two
0146
1 hundred and sixty-seven thousand ninety-nine
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt (81 of 87)10/14/2005 9:06:30 AM
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JPERRY/My%20Documents/AdvisoryBoard/boardmeeting052105.txt
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23