Hard Driver Motor

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Hard Driver motor

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May 28, 2008
#1
I recently found some old and newer hard drives too damaged
to be repaired for normal PC use now i took one apart for parts
such as the motor inside. I know nothing on motor like this. I
know about normal motors like with magnets and stuff and how
it works but beyaond normal 2 wire stuff i got no clue.
AtomSoft
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Ill take some pictures but for now let me explain in words. The
motor has a 4 wire interface which i soldered 4 wires to a pin
header for testing. How do i apply power to it? I tried normal
but i think this is like some PWM type thing because i cant
apply constant power it stops. But when i put power and then
off/on it........... it works.
Location: Brooklyn, NY US
Any suggestions on how i can power this for use?
Last edited: May 28, 2008
My Site - My Store - AtomSoftTech: C18 TIPS & TRICKS v9

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Jason Lopez
http://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/hard-driver-motor.39670/
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May 28, 2008
#2
it is stepper motor. You need to measure resistance between

all wires in order to find out what type of stepper motor it is ...
check out : Jones on Stepping Motors
the motor I salvaged from old HDD drive is
Variable Reluctance Motors and it is as figure 1.1 found here:
Jones on Stepping Motor Types
arhi
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Location: Belgrade, .rs
Code (text):
sequence to drive it:
Winding 1 1001001001001001001001001
Winding 2 0100100100100100100100100
Winding 3 0010010010010010010010010
time --->
most common stepper motors around are unipolar but for some
reason I prefer bipolar.
most of the HDD's are multiphase motors (5phase) but they
are with 5 leads. The one I have (use) is 4 lead just like the
one on the pic and it is Variable Reluctance.
Pay attention, when you test the motor,
- if you start the sequence to slow it will jiggle and not rotate
- if you start the sequence to fast if will oscillate and will not
turn
- this motors have very low torque
so in order to achieve rotation (4000 - 7000 rpm) you need to
start slow and then increase speed ..
I hope this helped
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Use forum to ask questions, do not use PP
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May 28, 2008
#3
hi,
In addition to 'arhi's good explanation.
If you follow the copper track on the driver pcb, from the 4 pin
connector, you should find the motor drive ic.
If you are lucky it will have the ic type name on its case.
ericgibbs
Well-Known Member
Remove it carefully and you have a ready made driver..
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Eric " Good enough is Perfect ", good enough means it meets
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Dec 11, 2014
#3.1415
Dave
May 28,
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2008
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#4
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wow there alot of info there a bit scary... makes me just one
to buy one instead lol...
Pins
1 & 4 = 1.3 Ohms
2 & 4 = 2.0 Ohms
3 & 4 = 2.0 Ohms
AtomSoft
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1 & 3 = 1.1 Ohms

2 & 3 = 2.0 Ohms
1 & 2 = 1.2 Ohms
How does this help? Havent really read all on that page yet
PDF
Jason Lopez
May 28, 2008
#5
St L6278 1.2
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AtomSoft
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PDF
Jason Lopez
May 28, 2008
#6
It looks like the spindle motor that rotates the platter. A

stepper motor would flat out not work for that application.
The schematic diagram in ahri's post is likely correct, but I
think this is a 3 phase brushless DC motor. A very different
animal from a stepper.
Papabravo
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It also looks like ST Micro has disavowed all knowledge of this

motor control chip. At least nobody answered the guy who
posted the question in 2006.
25
Location: Michigan, USA (G
We never have time to do it right; but we always have time to

do it over.
May 28, 2008
#7
AtomSoft said:
wow there alot of info there a bit scary... makes me
just one to buy one instead lol...
arhi
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Pins
1 & 4 = 1.3 Ohms
2 & 4 = 2.0 Ohms
3 & 4 = 2.0 Ohms
1 & 3 = 1.1 Ohms
2 & 3 = 2.0 Ohms
1 & 2 = 1.2 Ohms
4/13
01/01/2015
How does this help? Havent really read all on that

page yet
read the page
pin1 is the common lead, as pi1 to pin(2|3|4) is ~1R and
between pins 2,3,4 you have 2R so if you look at the
schematic, the "winding" resistance is 1R
You drive the motor pretty easy .. connect it like this
+5V smart
RC0 RC1 RC2 -
100R - pin1 //I drive it without resistor but it should be

to limit the current
pin2
pin3
pin4
and drive:
Code (text):
// config ...
//...
main(){
unsigned short delay, a;
TRISC = 0; //output
delay = 250;
a = 0;
while(1){
PORTC = 0b00000110;
delay_us(delay);
PORTC = 0b00000101;
delay_us(delay);
PORTC = 0b00000011;
delay_us(delay);
if (++a == 0) if (delay>0) delay--;
}
}
as you see, the motor will "increase speed" every 256 cycles.
now, it might happen that still motor "bounces" around, e.g.
run back/forth. this mean that you need to get the right
"order" of the wind1-3 (not too many combinations, so you can
try all 4)
you can also try to connect "common" pin to GND and source
power from pic, but I'm not sure if pic can give enough current
to drive it.
as for the motor driver, I managed to salvage bunch of HDD's
and I never managed to find any datasheet on the driver from
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01/01/2015
the HDD board

(some of them had no markings, some are
strange NEC chips .. anyhow google was silent)
as for the "brushless dc" vs "stepper" .. try to rotate the motor
with your hand, if you feel the "steps" that's a stepper
Elco Blog (Serbian)
Used cars for sale
May 28, 2008
#8
Is it your position that a stepper could actually be used for

rotating the spindle of a hard drive? You should know that I did
spend a few years in the HDD indusry once upon a time.
Papabravo
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do it over.
May 28, 2008
#9
Papabravo said:
Is it your position that a stepper could actually be
used for rotating the spindle of a hard drive? You
should know that I did spend a few years in the HDD
indusry once upon a time.
Nigel Goodwin
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It would be a VERY slow and useless HDD if it used a stepper!
Nov 17, 2003

36,762
426
Location: Derbyshire, UK
As you suggested, it's a DC brushless motor.

PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at:
http://www.winpicprog.co.uk
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May 28, 2008
#10
Nigel Goodwin said:

It would be a VERY slow and useless HDD if it used a
stepper!
Papabravo
As you suggested, it's a DC brushless motor.
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I know you know that and I know I know that, but the
question is do the other posters know that?
25

do it over.
May 28, 2008
#11
For some reason i get this error.. the thing is that the file is
there im using ver 8 of MPLAB
Code (text):
AtomSoft
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Executing: "C:\MCC18\bin\mcc18.exe" -p=18F1320 "b.c" -fo="b.o" -Ou

MPLAB C18 v3.20 (demo)
Copyright 1999-2005 Microchip Technology Inc.
Days remaining until demo becomes feature limited: 60
C:\PicCode\b\b.c:14:Warning [2058] call of function without protot
Executing: "C:\MCC18\bin\mplink.exe" "C:\MCC18\lkr\18f1320.lkr" "C
MPLINK 4.20, Linker
Copyright (c) 2008 Microchip Technology Inc.
[B]Error - could not find file 'c018i.o'.[/B]
Errors
:1

PDF
Jason Lopez
May 28, 2008
#12
Radical left turn! Perhaps a new thread would be in order.
Papabravo
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do it over.
May 28, 2008
#13
Papabravo said:
I know you know that and I know I know that, but
the question is do the other posters know that?
Leftyretro
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I knew it all along, a stepper motor to drive a 5,000+ RPM

platter, what were they thinking
Lefty
13
Location: Hercules, C alifor
Measurement changes behavior
May 28, 2008
#14
i get that while compiling the below code (related to this

thread)
Code (text):
AtomSoft
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#include <p18f1320.h>
#include <delays.h>
#pragma config OSC = INTIO1, WDT = OFF, LVP = OFF, DEBUG = ON
void main (void){

unsigned short delay, a;
TRISA = 0; //output
delay = 250;
a = 0;
while(1){
PORTA = 0b00001100;
delay_us(delay);
PORTA = 0b00001010;
delay_us(delay);
PORTA = 0b00000110;
delay_us(delay);
if (++a == 0) if (delay>0) delay--;
}
}

PDF
Jason Lopez
May 28, 2008
#15
arhi
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@Papabravo ah you must be right then

.. I drive the 4pin
HDD drive just like any other variable reluctance stepper
motor, from outside it looks like any other variable reluctance
stepper motor... when you turn it you "feel the steps", when
you power one coil it snap to "same" location .. all this (for
me) are the stepper motor properties - so, I call it stepper
.. to be honest I do not get the whole difference between
brushless dc and stepper in this point .. what is difference
between 5phase stepper and 5phase dc ?
anyhow, however it is called, the code provided should spin it
(i tried it few times)
p.s. don't get me wrong, I know that mine knowledge of the

issue is limited, I'm not being sarcastic - just explaining why I
said it is stepper

Elco Blog (Serbian)
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May 29, 2008
#16
Imade the below code from the above code. It jitters a little
and i tried many ways of switching the pins but do you think i
need a diff delay time?
Code (text):
AtomSoft
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LIST
p=18F1320
;tell assembler what chip we are using
include <p18F1320.inc>
;include the defaults for the chip
CONFIG OSC = INTIO2, WDT = OFF, LVP = OFF, DEBUG = ON
;sets
cblock 0x00
d1
endc
org 0x00
Init
MOVLW
MOVWF
CLRF
Start
;1
MOVLW
MOVWF
CALL
;2
MOVLW
MOVWF
CALL
;3
MOVLW
MOVWF
CALL
0x62
OSCCON
TRISA
; 4MHz clock select
b'00001010'
PORTA
DelayStart
b'00001100'
PORTA
DelayStart
b'00000110'
PORTA
DelayStart
BRA
Start
DelayStart
movlw 0xff
movwf d1
Delay_0
DECFSZ d1
goto
Delay_0
return
PDFEND
Jason Lopez
May 29, 2008
#17
hi atom,
If you want to easily try different delays you can connect a
10K pot from +5V to 0V, wiper to a ADC inp on the PIC.
ericgibbs
Read the pot/ADC and load the delay register with ADC value.
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Location:
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To get realistic delays, multiply the ADC value by say 100 and
then add 50 before you load the delay register. Vary the pot in
order to change the delay.
IIRC the motor has 4 wires, how are you connecting the 3
phases.???
This jpg is the output from your program on Oshonsoft.
Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
Eric " Good enough is Perfect ", good enough means it meets
the Clients specification.!
Please do NOT PM me with technical questions, use the
Forums
May 29, 2008
#18
atom, if that motor is similar to the one i'm doing tests with .. i
noticed following, when delay is too low it will produce
"squealing sound" but will not turn, if you then spin it with your
finger it will "hold on" and start spinning on it's own ... if delay
is too high it will uncontrollably spin back/forth ..
arhi
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anyhow, the hdd drives (I tried 3 different ones) have no

torque .. there might be some way to use them (if someone
give the idea I would love to try too) but I personally gave up
some time ago as, at low speed when you stop it, it will
continue to spin when you "let it go" but on high speed, it will
not restart so you need some encoder to check the spinning
and restart from low speed .. and as light touch is enough to
stop it at "usable" speeds, I discontinued idea of using them
for anything ...
(btw, the "no torque" might be due to "wrong driving" .. the
way I managed to drive my motor was believing it is variable
reluctance .. as people explained it is not, so, maybe it should
be driven differently... also, maybe someone should tell if 5V is
enough, I used in my test uln2003 to drive it but iirc i managed
later to turn it directly from pic when I got the timing right...
one more thing, one of the 3 motors I tried was 12V and not
5V driven)

Elco Blog (Serbian)
Used cars for sale
May 29, 2008
#19
From my experience in the HDD industry I can tell you that

starting and running a brushless DC motor at a constant speed
is going to be a tall order. You need to ramp the velocity up to
11/13
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a steady state. A typical speed range is 4000 - 10000 rpm.

Different manufacturers have different spin-up times and
things may have changed but 15-30 seconds for the spin-up
would not surprise me.
Papabravo
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There is one other thing that puzzles me. We used Hall-effect

sensors to detect the rotor position so we could fine tune the
rotation speed and also know where to start the phase
sequence. As you might know changing the speed of the
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head. I've heard that you can use back EMF sensing, but we
never thought that it was reliable enough for our purposes.
There was just too much noise that could not be effectively
filtered.
do it over.
May 29, 2008
#20
Papabravo said:
Leftyretro
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From my experience in the HDD industry I can tell

you that starting and running a brushless DC motor
at a constant speed is going to be a tall order. You
need to ramp the velocity up to a steady state. A
typical speed range is 4000 - 10000 rpm. Different
manufacturers have different spin-up times and
things may have changed but 15-30 seconds for the
spin-up would not surprise me.
13
Click to expand...
Location: Hercules, C alifor
The radio control electric airplanes have been using 3 phase

brushless motors for years. At the very first the motors were
using hall effect sensors but that was soon dropped in favor of
motor controllers that utilized back EMF sensing and it works
very good. These motors are very efficient and quite powerful.
Not sure if the control is stable enough for jitter free control
that hard drives would need.
Measurement changes behavior
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Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews

Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over

May 28, 2008

Any suggestions on how i can power this for use?

Last edited: May 28, 2008

My Site - My Store - AtomSoftTech: C18 TIPS & TRICKS v9

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

May 28, 2008

it is stepper motor. You need to measure resistance between

Apr 17, 2008

Location: Belgrade, .rs

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

May 28, 2008

Remove it carefully and you have a ready made driver..

Most Helpful Member

Last edited: May 28, 2008

Dec 11, 2014

Joined: Jan 12, 1997

1 & 3 = 1.1 Ohms

May 28, 2008

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

My Site - My Store - AtomSoftTech: C18 TIPS & TRICKS v9

May 28, 2008

It looks like the spindle motor that rotates the platter. A

It also looks like ST Micro has disavowed all knowledge of this

Location: Michigan, USA (G

Last edited: May 28, 2008

We never have time to do it right; but we always have time to

May 28, 2008

Apr 17, 2008

Location: Belgrade, .rs

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

How does this help? Havent really read all on that

100R - pin1 //I drive it without resistor but it should be

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

the HDD board

May 28, 2008

Is it your position that a stepper could actually be used for

Location: Michigan, USA (G

Last edited: May 28, 2008

We never have time to do it right; but we always have time to

May 28, 2008

It would be a VERY slow and useless HDD if it used a stepper!

Nov 17, 2003

As you suggested, it's a DC brushless motor.

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

May 28, 2008

Nigel Goodwin said:

As you suggested, it's a DC brushless motor.

Location: Michigan, USA (G

We never have time to do it right; but we always have time to

May 28, 2008

Executing: "C:\MCC18\bin\mcc18.exe" -p=18F1320 "b.c" -fo="b.o" -Ou

My Site - My Store - AtomSoftTech: C18 TIPS & TRICKS v9

May 28, 2008

Radical left turn! Perhaps a new thread would be in order.

Hard Driver motor | Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers)

Location: Michigan, USA (G

We never have time to do it right; but we always have time to

May 28, 2008