Lactobacillus Serum

Lactobacillus Serum
This is the workhorse of the beneficial bacteria well be discussing here. We use it for
everything! Foul odors, clogged drains, cheaper pig/chicken/etc farming, aquaculture, the
applications are amazingly diverse. Learn how to make and use this and you will have a
powerful tool in your farming arsenal.
***For an illustrated example of this recipe, check out the farm log here. The flog has all
kinds of good stuff, sign up to get the updates via email!***
How to Make:
1. Get container, fill halfway with rice-wash. Rice wash is the water leftover when you rinse
fresh rice. For example, go buy rice, whatever kind, bring it home, put it in a pot with
warm water, swirl it a bit and then drain the [now milky colored] water. The water is now
a rich source of carbohydrates. In this step, you can substitute rice with another
carbohydrate source if you dont have rice, as long as it is complex (dont use simple
carbohydrates like sugar, honey, syrup, molasses, etc). You can use wheat, barley, kinoa,
other carbohydrates as the base to make your carbohydrate wash. This wash will attract
microbes from the air, among them lacto bacilli.
2. Cover loosely and let stand for a couple days to a week
o When is it done? When you see a light film on top (molds) and it smells a little
sour and forms 3 layers. This is indicating the rice wash is infected with various
microbes. This happens more quickly in warm temperatures because microbes are
more active. Thus it is all relative since we dont do this in controlled laboratory
conditions.
3. The layers are distinct
o Top layer: floating carbohydrates leftover from fermentation and possibly molds
o Middle layer: Lactic Acid and other bacteria (cheese buffs will recognize this as a
makeshift rennet). We will use this layer.
o Bottom layer: Starch, byproduct of fermentation
4. Extract the middle layer using a siphon. This layer contains the highest concentration of
lactic acid bacteria and lowest concentration of the unneeded byproducts
5. Get a new container, larger than the first. Take the extracted serum from the last step and
mix it with 10 parts milk. By saturating with milk (lactose), we dissuade other microbes
from proliferating, leaving L. bacilli. E.G. if you have 1cup of the serum, mix it with
10cups milk.
TIP: The best milk to use in unpasteurized natural milk. However, any milk will
do, even powdered milk. In our experience, the best is unpasteurized natural but
just use what is available. We just want to saturate with lactose to promote L.
bacilli bacteria.
6. You want to keep this stage anaerobic as much as possible. You can use something like
rice bran, barley bran, wheat bran, etc sprinkled on top of the milk. I use a sealed
container with a one-way valve.Note: Beware of bubbling during this phase. It can
lead to overflows if you filled to near the top. It can go through the one-way valves
so keep an eye on it and dont do this step around nice things
7. After about 1 week (temp dependent), youll see curds (made of carbohydrate, protein,
and fat) on top of the milk. The water below will be yellow colored this is whey,
enriched with lactic acid bacteria from the fermentation of the milk.
NOTE: Microbes like L. bacilli are more active in warmer temperatures. The
curds you see are a byproduct of the fermentation process. Fermentation is
generally associated with microbial processes under anaerobic(no oxygen)
conditions. Now, L. bacilli is a facultative anaerobe, that is it can live and work
with or without oxygen, but less competition in anaerobic conditions.
8. The water below(whey+lacto) is the good stuff. You want to extract this. You can either
skim the curds off the top, pour through a strainer, or whatever other methods to
accomplish that
NOTE: Remember the curds, or byproduct of milk fermentation by L. bacilli, are
great food. They are full of beneficial microbes like L. bacilli. Feed the curds to
the soil, compost pile, plants, animals, humans whoever wants them! They are
full of good nutrients/microbes. No waste in natural farming.
9. To preserve at room temperature, add an equal part sugar/molasses to the serum. So, if
you have 1L of serum, add 1kilo sugar or 1L molasses. Otherwise store in fridge to keep.
Example Recipe:
1 L rice wash
10L Milk
10kg sugar
After rice wash and milk remove curds around 1L
= 20 L lactic acid bacteria serum
What to Use it for and How

Before using, first mix 1:20 with water. 1 part serum to 20 parts water. Then follow
instructions below:
Odor Reducer:
Add mixture to animals water at 2tbsp/L. You can mix it more or less, there are no rules here,
just how we typically do it.
Apply to places where there is odor buildup. The harmless bacteria eat the odor causing
germs and the smell is gone!
o Indoors: reduces foul odors, including animals like cats, dogs, mice, other pets.
Stinky shoes? Wet clothes from being outside? Gym clothes that havent made it
to the wash yet? Smoker in the house? Kill these nasty smells!
o Outside: use to control odor in pens pigs, cows, chickens. In barns, around the
yard, etc
Household use:
Clear clogged drains: dump mixture into drain to clear clogs. Exact amount depends on
the clog, haha. A few tbsp to 1L works well. For semi-clogged drains (like kitchen sink
draining progressively slower), use at night and allow at least the night for microbes to
work.
Keep septic clear. Tired of having your septic system drained? Add lacto! Depending on
size of your system, pour a few tbsp. to a few L into the toilet every few months.
Houseplants: Mix 2-3tbsp per 1L water and use that to water them.
Animal Bedding:
Mix 2tbsp to 1L water. Mix with animal bedding to reduce smell and increase longevity. In
natural pig farming we use at least 1 yard deep of bedding so there is plenty of space for
microbes to work. Bedding consists of organic substrate like rice hulls, wood chips, sawdust,
wood shavings, shredded corn cob, any other high cellulose, high lignin material. Natural pig
farming is a future topic on this site. Spray until bedding is slightly damp but not wet. How much
you spray really depends on your climate. If you are in a very dry climate you can spray a little
more and mix in evenly. Wetter (more humid) climates use a bit less. Mix into the bedding
evenly where necessary (in many cases, like with pigs and chickens, theyll mix it themselves).
How much you use is all relative. These guidelines are for pigs and chickens. More extreme
smells, just use more! Want to spray less often, use more! As we notice a smell we spray. Thus,
as pigs grow bigger, make more poop, we spray more often! Dosage/frequency is relative and
will depend on your situation.
Animals Digestive/Growth Aid:

Mix 2tbsp to 1L water, then add that mixture to animals water at 2tbsp/L(so the animals water
contains little less than a quarter tsp/L of lacto serum). But this is very flexible. The Lacto serum
is not harmful, so its just about adding enough to be effective, without wasting it.
Improve digestive efficiency in humans and animals alike:

o Improves how you feel after meals, particularly meals rich in meats. Its
awesome. After eating, mix 1-2tbsp lacto with a cup of water and drink that.
Makes you feel so much better after! Lessens that afternoon lull, gives you more
energy!
Aids digestion in animals. This is critical. You can raise animals on less food, and
see the same and greater growth rates. Amazing results in pigs . The principal is
that the microorganisms help digest the food coming in better digestibility
means better nutrient absorption. Save on feeds, better feed to growth conversion
ratio!
TIP: If you really want to boost growth, mix 2tbsp to 1L water and soak
the food in this solution for a few hours to a few days. Food is predigested when animals eat it, AWESOME!
Great results in livestock and poultry.
Plants Growth Aid:

When added to water for plants, nutrient uptake efficiency is increased, which increases growth!
Improves growth of plants when applied as foliar spray and soil drench. Improves their
efficiency in uptaking nutrients so naturally, growth is enhanced. With the use of these
microorganisms, the nutrients you spray or drench to feed your plants become more bioavailable and easily absorbable by the plants. Technically, you can say that plants do not
use organic nutrients directly. Microorganisms convert organic nutrients to their
inorganic constituents which the plants utilize. Utilizing microbes, you will notice better
plant growth and health.
Disease Resistance:
This is a consequence of the increased efficiency of nutrients. More nutrients available at

smaller metabolic cost.
Lacto suppresses harmful bacteria in food/water that animals consume, enhances their gut
flora so that line of defense is working optimally, etc.
Aid Compost:
Mix 2tbsp/L and spray on compost pile to improve decomposition. This is a huge topic
that will be expanded upon in another post.
Aid Organic Fertilizer:
Add 1-2tbsp per gallon water-nutrient solution. Lacto consumes organic nutrients making them
bio-available to plant roots.
Plants dont use organic fertilizer! Microbes break it down to inorganic constituents, and
plants take those up. This product makes that process more efficient.
Aquaculture:
Lacto works in aquaculture just fine if you dont have BIM available. Add lacto at roughly 1L
per 700m3 of fish-containing water. Example: you have a pond that averages 20m wide by 30m
long by 2m deep. So, 20 x 30 x 2 = 1200m3. In this case you would add roughly 1L of BIM or
Lacto
Microbes digest fish wastes, cleaning up water and improving water quality.
Allows fish to grow larger due to digestive efficiency
Allows higher population of fish in the same amount of water! Literally, increases the
carrying capacity of your body of water! This is awesome for aquaculture setups
Share this:
Zach
February 18, 2013 at 4:20 am - Reply...
Can homemade lacto go bad? A friend told me it smelled like alcohol, so I dont want to
use it if it has indeed fermented into alcohol. Its the base serum (leftover strained milk
liquids + equal part molasses to feed the bacteria). I keep it stored with the cap loose in a
warm, dark place.
o
Patrick
The short answer is yes, it can go bad depending on how its made. Gils stuff
doesnt go bad but Ive made a batch or two where the smell kinda went off and I
just tossed them. I think its differences in the processing/storing, I think I had
stored it in too large a bottle (Gils are in 500ml glass bottles filled right to the
top, I think too much air in the storage bottle makes it harder to preserve). It
should smell kinda soury-vinegary like a fermented extract. It may have a tinge of
alcohol smell to some people but not strong.
Ideal storage conditions is refrigeration with cap tight, even when youve mixed
with molasses to preserve it. Microbes are less active in the cold, especially L.
bacillus that likes the heat. I use the fridge especially when I have a little spray
bottle of diluted mix for smells/compost/cleaning/etc. Keep the diluted mix in
fridge and it lasts several days, whereas outside just <24hrs..
Zach
February 18, 2013 at 11:11 pm - Reply...
Ok, thanks for all the tips Patrick. I think mine still may be good, my
friend said it smelled like alcohol, but I think it smells okay. Kinda sour,
much like you describe it.
Ill move it to a container where I can fill it up without air space, as well
as put it in the fridge.
Nick
May 31, 2014 at 5:13 am - Reply...
Thanks so much for this website and sharing all of this wonderful
information! I have a quick question before I finish the final stage
of making this serum. Everything went well just as you said but
when I open the jar of curdled milk it smells like throw up. Should
I start a new batch or continue to mix this with molasses? I let it
ferment in the corner of the room where it received indirect
sunlight , I did not see any instructions saying to leave it in the
dark. Thanks for all you do!
Patrick
July 2, 2014 at 10:40 pm Hi Nick, sorry for the late reply, busy days! It might smell
like sour cheese or something, that is normal. Id still mix
1:1 with molasses or sugar and that should help the smell a
lot.
dexter tamayo
January 26, 2014 at 9:23 pm - Reply...
using diluted lacto serum where it is diluted to 1:20 to water my plants, how many
times will i use to spray the lacto in a week
Patrick
January 28, 2014 at 7:34 am - Reply...
Once per week is fine. You can spray every day if you want, doesnt hurt.
Also use as a soil drench when you apply fertilizer(particularly organic
fertilizer).
dexter tamayo
im on the final stage of making lactobacillus serum where 1 part of
lactobacillus infection (strained rice wash )and 10 parts of milk are
mixed, after a week of fermentation i notice that there are tiny
white worms moving on top of it , i just want to ask if am i still on
the right track or do i need to make a new one
Memukan
March 23, 2013 at 12:02 am - Reply...
Patrick,
I was wondering if I used raw milk and let it set a room tempature until the whey
seperated then add molasses would this make the same type serum ?
Thank you,
Memukan
o
Patrick
March 23, 2013 at 2:40 pm - Reply...
Hi Memukan,
I talked to Gil about this today. Basically you can try that if you want and see if it
works, but its a departure from the natural method. The idea with the natural
method is to use the rice wash to establish a good population of beneficial
microbes. You take that population and inundate with lactose rich milk to
facilitate domination of lactic acid bacteria in the environment of diverse
beneficial microbes. Other beneficial microbes die, get eaten by lacto, or go into
cyst form to await favorable conditions.
Anyway try it without using rice wash and see how it goes. I think it might have a
higher chance of turning out bad but might still be fine.
Thanks for posting!
Patrick
Memukan
March 24, 2013 at 4:41 pm - Reply...
Thank you Patrick,
I will just stick with what works for you, heck there is no need in reinventing the wheel.
Memukan
Alvin
March 29, 2013 at 8:56 am - Reply...
Hi, I found this site so useful and it helped me a lot for me to prepare my future
experiments. I heard about Gil in a YouTube video made by and an American that
teaches how to obtain lactobacillus serum and it led me to this site.
Im a beginner in doing hydroponic and aeroponic system at home. One of the problems I
encountered was the formation of mold on the stem and root part of my wheatgrass.
Thought I found the problem was the density of wheatgrass was too high and the tray I
use has only a few holes for water draining and ventilation, plus the temperature in
manila is high. By the way, I didnt expose the wheatgrass in sunlight so theres no UV to
kill the molds. Since I saw on this page that lacto suppresses harmful bacteria, I was
wondering if lactobacillus serum can be used to kill mold that forms on plants ?
o
Patrick
March 30, 2013 at 6:50 am - Reply...
Yes! You may use lacto to suppress mold growth. Regularly spraying with a
diluted lacto mix will keep a steady population of l bacillus on the roots which
will protect them from mold.
As far as treating roots already suffering from a mold problem, might not be as
effective. You might try treating with a stronger lacto mix for a few feedings and
see if it helps, it should help if not cure. The solution I would try first however is
the ginger-garlic extract. That has great anti-fungal properties that should work
wonders! Id treat with ginger-garlic for a few weeks then switch to lacto to
establish a protective population of those microbes. Experiment experiment
experiment
Speaking of, what experiments are you planning? Wed love to hear about them,
especially other readers Im sure!
Patrick
Alvin
March 30, 2013 at 8:20 am - Reply...
Thanks for answering my question Patrick. Before I know about lacto, I
planned to introduce UV lamp in order to kill the microbes in the liquid
fertilizers, but Im just experimenting with it cause I dont know whether
the UV will also affect the nutrients or not. Now I know about lacto, I can
compare between UV and lacto to see which one is better.
I just started germinating some crown daisy, golden berry and green butter
lettuce, waiting to be transplanted to my aeroponic system. I use a digital
timer outlet to control a pressured pump to spray liquid fertilizers to the
root with atomizer spray heads, I was wondering when I put the lacto into
the liquid fertilizer, will the lacto withstand the pressure of the pump and
the spraying of the atomizer spray heads ? Cause otherwise, I would have
to use the dripping method instead.
By the way, I just prepared some rice washes this morning, waiting for the
hungry microbes
Patrick
March 30, 2013 at 11:40 am - Reply...
That sounds great Alvin, I cant wait to start experimenting with
aeroponics using Gils recipes! That is an interesting question
regarding lacto and atomization, ha. I think they will do fine but
youll have to strain carefully when adding the lacto so you dont
get particulates that clog the sprayers. I know fungal hyphae dont
go through pumps successfully, they are very delicate, but I think
you should get some bacteria that survive no problem.
oqi
April 1, 2013 at 2:39 am - Reply...
Hi Patrick
What if we try to make specific plant microorganism, should we attract the

microorganism from the plants suroundings using rice and than fermented or can we just
ferment leaves and roots for example directly using lacto, which method will be more
efficient.
Regards, oqi
o
Gil
i would normally use the rice (carbohydrate) to attract the specific plant
microorganisms. after so doing, add sugar to proliferate the population. then as
you may wish, do the fermentation and add on of lacto.
Oqi
Thank you sir four your kind reply, admire your job on this
microorganism stuff, all the best
Oqi
Thank you for your kind reply sir, admire your job so much on this
microorganism and natural farming, god speed and all the best
Patrick
Hi Oqi thanks for the question. Looks like Gil got to it before I did. As he said the
best way to collect plant-specific microbes is by following the BIM recipe, just
for the plant you want microbes from. This will give you the highest population of
those microbes. When we ferment leaves and roots we are more looking for the
growth hormones and enzymes within the plant material were fermenting. That
said, those leaves and roots have a biosphere that has organisms living within it.
You will get some of those when you collect and ferment that material, just not as
high a population. So I dont know if it is as much about efficiency as what you
want from the product. If you want the best plant-specific microbial inoculant you
can get, use the BIM method of collection. Otherwise youll still get some using
the normal fermentation method.
Oqi

Thank you for the explanation patrick, keep up with new recipes please,
eager to learn more
Big Ray
April 10, 2013 at 4:38 am - Reply...
Dont mean to hijack your thread Patrick. But.
I have been making my own kefir for over a year now. Kefir is made using only milk and
kefir grains. Much like steps 6-9, fermenting kefir makes whey, curds and kefir. I drink
the whey, the curds and the kefir. But, I always have extra whey. Like yall, I use it on
my soil, plants and compost pile. I give some occasionally to my neighbors cat and the
other neighbors two dogs. They love the stuff!
Kefir grains are getting easier to come by nowadays. Yahoo groups has a kefir group
with members more than willing to share grains. These grains are not actual seeds or
grains in the sense that we think of. The word grains is a corruption of a Turkish word
that I cant remember now.
A very sceptical friend at LSU tested my kefir way back when I first got grains. The
amount of beneficial bacteria in my kefir was astounding! The most abundant bacteria by
far was lacto. I am diabetic and my health has benefited greatly since I started drinking
this miracle elixir.
With every batch of kefir (24 hours), the grains multiply! I would offer grains to yall but,
I have about 6 people already waiting for grains right now.
Im wondering if the kefir whey (lacto) is helping or hurting the mycorrhizae?
o
Patrick
April 15, 2013 at 11:26 am - Reply...
Ya Id love to start playing with kefir! Thats up the same alley as all this stuff.
Ive looked into it before but never obtained grains. Will have to go on the to-do
list once this site is going well.
Hard to say if the lacto hurts or helps the mycorrhizae.. Mycorrhizae infect the
roots for the exudates deposited there by plants. Lacto species generally feed on
simple sugars rather than complex carbohydrates like starches, so they might not
directly compete with mycorrhizae. Someone needs to do some experiments
Jeff
April 12, 2013 at 11:26 pm - Reply...

Dear Gil and Patrick: Thank you for sharing the things that you know with those of us
who are learning. I suspect it is a million efforts such as you are putting out that will shift
the balance in favor of all life or nature, which is my heartfelt desire.
I have a question. I am really curious what it is about the sugar/molasses that preserves
the serum, what is going on biologically to allow it to keep? Is it acting as a secondary
non preferred food source instead of lactose, and just slows down the growth? It seems
like if you added lactose it would cause a population explosion but this obviously is not
happening with the sugar. Seems like I have read elsewhere on your site that the sugar
energizes the bacteria. Then I thought that perhaps the sugar is just allowing the mixture
to keep and that the lacto guys are just ganging out. Just wondering if you know what is
going on or could point me in the right direction.
o
Patrick
April 13, 2013 at 3:20 am - Reply...
Hi Jeff great question and welcome to the site. Hope you stick around, we have a
lot of content still to be published on here as well as the Flog starting in May.
So, basically sugar acts as a preservative only when in high concentrations. When
it is diluted enough, its a great carbohydrate food source for growing bacteria.
When it is too concentrated, the osmotic pressure(pressure gradient based on
amount of solutes in water) on the bacterial cells keep them from taking much in,
thus they cannot significantly grow or divide. Hope this helps!
Jeff
April 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm - Reply...
Thank you for this explanation, it is helping to fill in the puzzle in my
mind of these unseen little creatures.
One quick follow up question, does that mean that when it goes to the 20
to 1 ratio, it becomes volatile in the sense that it needs to be used quickly?
I am amazed at all of this stuff because I sense that there are many more
possibilities around the home, and for personal hygiene/health uses. I will
check out what the Flog is.
Patrick
April 13, 2013 at 5:27 pm - Reply...
After the second dilution, yes you should use it within a day or
two. The first time you dilute it with 20 parts water, its still
concentrated enough it will keep for ages, I will amend the recipe
above to make that clearer. Yes, tons of uses! This article just
touches on many of them.
The Flog starts May 1st. For now it will follow the birth and
growth of my balcony garden with weekly updates. Ill be using
Gils techniques along the way and should be a good
demonstration of them (I hope, Im kinda a tinkerer when it comes
to the plants part of it). If you sign up for the newsletter youll get
the weekly updates, should be fun! Later there will be updates
from Gil, special info, all that good stuff. Weve just started the
site, long road ahead.
Jeff
April 15, 2013 at 2:59 pm Concerning uses. I wonder about using it as a
vegetable/fruit rinse. Thinking back on the cantaloupe
problems from last year. Or spinach. Do we have any idea
if lactic acid bacteria can help to reduce e. coli strains or
out-compete or fill latch on points? I assume the acid level
itself would be too low after dilution to do the job, but
perhaps both LAB in the presence of acidity would do it?
Also, what about a natural underarm deodorizer? Again,
using the idea of out-competing. I begin to imagine a strong
favoritism of beneficials covering most surfaces in our lives
without the use of harmful sterilization methods such as
soap, chlorine, etc.
Patrick
April 15, 2013 at 3:12 pm I like your train of thought Jeff. Yep, it can and in fact is
used for all those things. It fights pathogens, like E. coli, by
competing for resources and living space normally
occupied by them, thats partly why its such a popular
probiotic. It can be used as a deodorant but not sure best
method of application. In Japan [some] people use LAB as
laundry detergent. There are articles on all these Im too
tired to dig them up now but will look later this week if I
have time. Super interesting, when you get into it, the
applications for this stuff are endless. The recipe above just
touches on them.
Josa
March 18, 2014 at 4:28 am Hi Patrick, I diluted my LAB 20:1 and have been using that
in a further dilution to water my plants. My 20:1 dilution is
in a gallon sized jar and has begun to look like its
fermenting. Its gotten bubbly on top. Has it gone bad?
When it is 20:1 do I keep it in a closed container? That is
how I stored it originally but when I noticed the smell
getting vinegary I put a breathable material on top and
loosely placed the jar cover over that. Is this what I should
be doing? Can I still use this 20:1 dilution?
Patrick
March 18, 2014 at 8:58 pm Hi Josa,
Actually you want to keep that 20:1 dilution as anaerobic as
possible. If it is fermenting and producing gas you will
want an airlock, or crack the lid each day so it doesnt
explode. If it has started the fermentation process it will
eventually run its course and not be as effective. To
combat that, you can store it in the fridge. I usually mix the
1:20 dilution in a container I can expect to use within 1
month, that way I dont run into that problem even if I
leave it out of the fridge. Hope this helps and gives you
some ideas.
Cheers,
Patrick
Jeff
June 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm - Reply...
So, just wanted to report back that everything worked as stated in the
above recipe. Have a nice batch of LAB in the fridge and some stabilized
(w/molasses) in the garage. Im using it outside on the plants, hoping for
healthier more drought tolerance. Interesting observation, (perhaps): It
seems that after the first dilution to 1:20, if it sits for about a week it will
gradually become more acidic. As if it is undergoing a secondary

fermentation from the molasses. (I know for a fact that something is
happening because of pressure buildup within a plastic bottle)It seems to
me that it takes on a vinegar quality. (acetic acid?) If this is so, it seems
that it is not altogether a bad thing, at least for some applications, tho I bet
LAB populations fall precipitously. Which brings me to one question.
Why do you guys recommend arresting the fermentation process on other
parts of the website when making various nutritional juices? Seems to me
that the nutrients would be just as beneficial in the presence of vinegar as
alcohol. And one more unrelated question, have you ever done work or
experimented with making your own PNSB, or is there no real agricultural
application? Again, thank you so much for your work, for your kind
explanations to us laypeople!
Patrick
June 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm - Reply...
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for reporting back! Thats great youve got a batch finished
now to use it and report back again! heh..
Im not sure on this so Ill have to double-check with Gil or get
him on here, but I think we stop fermentation in the other recipes
because were trying to get the alcohol-soluble compounds
extracted from the source material. By inundating with alcohol,
fermentation stops and there is more osmotic pressure to get the
alcohol soluble compounds out of the source.
Regarding your diluted serum, after you diluted the mixture did
you put it in a bottle with a lot of extra air? Ive found that can
make it continue cooking more than when you fill the bottle right
up to the top. Also, try storing it in the fridge after you dilute it.
That will slow the activity right down. Anyway you can leave it
out and it will reach equilibrium as it becomes more acidic.
Thanks again for letting us know how its going,
Patrick
Jeff
June 11, 2013 at 6:30 pm Thanks for the feedback. Ill be applying to the landscape
regularly and we shall see what happens. Just feels good
moving in the direction of natural processes with an

organic approach. I also have 3 batches of FPE going to use
as well.
luvin
May 13, 2014 at 6:21 am - Reply...
hello patrick, i happen to add lots of molasses to my LAB, its three times
the volume of lacto. you said that the osmotic pressure keeps the bacteria
from dividing. i think thats bad., so can i do something to make this thing
work as it should be?
Patrick
May 20, 2014 at 3:20 am - Reply...
Hey Luvin,
I would add water to even it out. The water will dilute it down to
what it should be. Dont add too much water though. And test
afterwards take some out and add to a little water and seal it up,
wait to see it produces gas, has live culture present.
Cheers,
Patrick
Bryan
April 17, 2013 at 2:43 am - Reply...
Using LAB to ferment pig or chicken feed, what dilution with dechlorinated water do you
suggest (ie 1:30 1:100 etc) based on your experiences. Obviously the totL quantity of
water is dependent upon that amount necessary to achieve field capacity.
What percent do you suggest adding the fermented feed (both as wet and dried) to the
total feed amount.
Thank you to you and Mr C. in advance.
Best Wishes
Bryan
o
Patrick
April 18, 2013 at 7:02 am - Reply...

Mr. Prokashi! Thanks for the question love your site, I think youll like ours
also. I talked to Gil about this yesterday, he recommends at least
2tbsp/L(8tbsp/gal). You can use this to ferment feeds overnight. You can mix
with normal feed as long as the feed doesnt contain antibiotics as those will kill
the microbes. Id mix 1:1 with normal feeds. This is all flexible though its just
our recommendation. I have a friend who lives next door to a dairy farm so gets
free milk from them. He feeds his pigs exclusively milk. Ferments it for 3 days
before each feeding(rotates 3 buckets of feed). Contrary to what you would think
with that diet, hes never had a problem with diarrhea, his pigs are not obese, and
in fact some 4-H gurus that visited his farm said theyre some of the best looking
pigs theyve seen.
A note: You still dilute the pure serum 20 times with water (the step in bold at the
top of the what to use it for directions) before adding 2tbsp/L.
gil carandang
April 22, 2013 at 9:01 am - Reply...
pretty soon we will post our techniques in raising natural pigs from housing
design,feeds and ferments among others. for now enthusiasts you can ferment the feeds
prior to feeding adding BIM and even bionutrients overnight. make sure your feeds do
not have antibiotics!
Bryan
April 22, 2013 at 1:13 pm - Reply...
Dear Mr C
Can you add in along with the pigs some information about chickens. I understand
that there is a lot in common between both. Maybe you can highlight some of the finer
things (those usually make all of the difference most times) for chickens.
Thank you and Patrick in advance!
Best Wishes
Bryan
Chad
April 29, 2013 at 10:50 pm - Reply...
I was starting some rice wash for the first time a forgot that the tap water is
chlorinated.Will it be okay if I still use it?
o
Patrick
April 30, 2013 at 5:54 am - Reply...
I would watch it and see it separates into the 3 layers due to presence of bacteria.
If not you might have to start fresh with non-chlorinated water. I think it should
be fine though just might take an extra day or two for the bacteria to infect it.
MIkeS
June 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm - Reply...
Gil and Patrick,
Great site, love all the information! I have a question about starting the Lactobacillus
Serum.
We make rejuvelac from sprouted quinoa ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejuvelac) I was
wondering if this would work in place of the rice wash in your recipe as it is something
we have a little more experience in making. The technique is very similar, only rejuvelac
uses sprouted grains instead of the wash.
o
Patrick
June 3, 2013 at 4:31 am - Reply...
Hi Mike,
Great comment! It brings up something I learned from Gil. Focus on the
principles at work, and then there are all kinds ways you can tweak these recipes.
In the case of the rice wash, the idea is that the liquid is full of dissolved
carbohydrates, that attract microbes from the air and environment. These multiply
and fermentation occurs. Then you inundate with lactose (milk) to select for
lactobacillus, which is present along with lots of other microbes.
So with the rejuvelac, you cut the quinoa sprouts and soak them in water right?
That would be your carbohydrate source. It attracts microbes and fermentation
occurs. Then youd use milk to select for lactobacillus. I think that would work
great as a substitute for rice wash! I also saw on that page you sent, that rejuvelac
is used as a digestive aid. Thats a good indication there are lacto bacteria present.
As long as they are there, the milk will ensure they dominate and you end up with
a nice lactobacillus serum.
Anita L. Molijon
June 8, 2013 at 1:57 am - Reply...

Hello Sir Gil how are you. I am your student when you were having Training in
ATI_RTC X, Irasan, Zamboanga del Norte. I am very thankful you posted this important
topic on Lactubacillus Serum. As trainer it would be of great help talking of Organic
Agriculture which the Philippine Government promotes today.
Lean
June 9, 2013 at 3:49 am - Reply...
I doubted, but now i believe. =) Very effective in eliminating foul odors when used with
dbs in pigpens and organic waste decomposes faster.
o
Patrick
June 10, 2013 at 1:46 pm - Reply...
Haha! Great comment, that made me laugh. I was exactly like that initially very
skeptical. Im glad you tried it out and were able to see its effectiveness. Ive
come to the point I use it around the house as an air freshener. Lacto is just
amazing, it has so many uses and has never disappointed me.
Chelsa
Hello, I love reading your information and learning more through the
comments! Will you please explain how you use lacto in the house as an
air freshener?
Patrick
Oh yeah, I love that application. Just a normal spray bottle, I like to
use a nice bottle that makes very fine mist the finer the better.
Then fill it with water/lacto mixture. The lacto is very dilute in this
application 1-3tsp/gal. Then just mist everywhere in your house.
Everywhere. Here in the tropics the house can get smelly fast, and
that just does the trick.
scozans
June 16, 2013 at 3:00 am - Reply...
Hi Sir Patrick and Sir Gil,

I just started to make the serum and now on the 3rd day of lacto+milk. I already noticed
on the 2nd day that the curds are already separating from the yellowish liquid below.
Does that mean im on the right track? I tend to open the container where the lacto+milk
is fermenting twice a day to release the CO2 but this makes my mixture aerobic. Does the
mixture strictly needs to be anaerobic? Will it deminish the effectiveness of the serum if i
continuosly let O2 in before the fermentation is finished?
Thanks a lot. Very very interesting site!
o
Patrick
June 19, 2013 at 7:19 am - Reply...
Hi Scozans,
Dont worry you can crack the lid to let the air out when it builds up. Best to have
an airlock that lets air out but not in, but thats ok. It will still work just fine. You
are on the right track, youll be able to strain the curds off at the end and youll
have your lactobacillus serum!
Thanks for your interest in our site!
Cheers,
Patrick
scozans
June 19, 2013 at 12:30 pm - Reply...
Thanks for the reply, Patrick.
Because I thought the lacto+milk mixture must be anaerobic, I made
another batch but this time I put them in a container with a check valve to
let the CO2 out and no O2 in. I noticed on the 2nd day the curds and whey
has already separated but unlike my first batch, this batch has the curds at
the bottom and the yellowish liquid on top. Now Im confused, when my
set up is aerobic, the curds are on top and when I made it anaerobic the
curds are at the bottom which batch is good and correct? By the way, the
second batch is on its 3rd day.
By the way, I already extracted some serum from my first batch and used
it to unclog out sink and viola it work immediately! I also used it on my
dog cages for remove the odor and its very effective! My wife loved what
I did! Hehehe!
Thanks again.
Kampay!
scozans
Patrick
June 19, 2013 at 1:11 pm - Reply...
Hi Scozans,
Thats great to hear! Sounds like the first batch turned out fine.
Yeah, its amazing how well it works for bad smells, just amazing.
And how fast it works!
Lactobacillus are facultative anaerobes. That means they dont
REQUIRE anaerobic conditions, its just that those conditions are
best since they do very well whereas many other bacteria do not. A
little oxygen wont ruin a batch, just dont go sticking a bubbler in
there, hah.
Hmm thats odd the curds are on the bottom. The curds are made
up of fats and proteins, they should float on top of the whey.
Anyway dont worry about it, just wait until its done fermenting
and then strain out the liquid. You should still have a good quality
lactobacillus serum. This recipe is pretty forgiving in my
experience. If you spray and it doesnt kill the smell, might want to
make a new batch .
karen
June 28, 2013 at 9:04 am - Reply...
Hi Patrick,
how can we tell if the batch actually is LABS? the rice wash had very little separation
and i failed to smell it and went ahead with the rest of the procedure.
love!
Karen
o
Patrick
June 29, 2013 at 12:57 pm - Reply...
Hi Karen,
It should taste sour thats the acidity that indicates the lactobacillus have been at
work metabolizing the sugars and consequently lowering the pH. Thats fine if
you didnt test the rice wash that is just there to introduce a rich population of
microbes to the milk.
Test the final product dilute it according to the recipe, then spray it to kill bad
smells fast. Use it to increase compost pile turnover. Take a tbsp/meal to help
digestion, kill that afternoon lull we all get around 3-4pm. Ferment your animal
feeds for a couple days before feeding the animals and watch them grow
significantly faster. The uses for this are just awesome.
Cheers,
Patrick
Ruth Elin Maramba

July 1, 2013 at 2:39 am - Reply...
Hi sir.
Good Day! I will conduct a study on growth and yield of cucumber applied with
lactobacillus-based probiotics as liquid fertilizer. Is it advisable to use this microbes on
cucumber?? Thanks sir!
o
Patrick
July 1, 2013 at 5:10 am - Reply...
Hi Ruth,
I would be interested in seeing how it affects organic fertilizers. You could have
one control (water only) trial, one organic fertilizer trial, and one organic fertilizer
+ lacto trial. I think youd see good results from that experiment as long as you
keep the dosages pretty light.
This would work fine with cucumber plants, you could also try Sitao or Baguio
beans. Am I correct in assuming you are in the Philippines? What kind of study is
this? For school?
I love experiments, it is so much fun being a scientist. Good luck with whatever
you decide, and have fun!
Patrick
Ruth Elin Maramba

August 1, 2013 at 10:33 am - Reply...
Yes sir! This will be my thesis. Hope it will work well. Hehe. Im just in a
little doubt about my lactobacillus culture, how can i make sure if it is
already fermented and ready to apply to the crop sir? Hope you response
immediately sir. Thank you!
Ruth Elin Maramba

Yes sir! This will be my thesis. Hope it will work well. Hehe. Im just in a
little doubt sir about my lactobacillus culture, how can i make sure that it
is already fermented and ready to apply to the crop? Hope you response
immediately sir. Thank you!
Patrick
You should see curds on top and a yellowish whey below. Other
than that just wait the prescribed time and you should be good if
you leave it too long no problem.
Ben Rho
July 5, 2013 at 11:31 pm - Reply...
Hi Patrick, this site is awesome! i will be starting an organic layer farm soon and im
really worried about the odor and the flies. will this concoction work in controlling flies
as well? also, would it be OK to use this together with cultivated indigenous micro
organisms?
Warm Regards from Mindanao,
Ben
o
Patrick
July 8, 2013 at 10:44 am - Reply...
Hey Ben, hello from Manila! Have you heard of Gil Carandang before? Hes a
pretty big name here in the Philippines. Join our mailing list and keep in touch!
There will be updates on Gils workshops and products there. To answer your
questions:
Yes, lacto will work wonders on manure smell eats it right up at the microbial
level. Once the smell is gone the flies will no longer be an issue the smell draws
them. Spray the barnyard, pens, feeder, everything with the lacto solution.
Reapply as necessary. You know you can also use it to treat the chicken feed
soak the feed in a lacto solution for 1-3 days before feeding to the birds it is
amazing for health and growth!
We use lacto in the BIM solution, its fine to combine with indigenous microbes.
Let me know if any questions, and let us know how it goes on the farm!
Patrick
Ben Rho
July 14, 2013 at 8:15 am - Reply...
Hi Patrick!
quick question, i added 10 parts milk last night to my fermented rice
wash.. just now when i checked curds have already developed and below
is a water like substance. does this mean that it is ready for harvest already
or do i really need to wait for a week or so? how do we know if it is ready
since in your instructions temperature plays a very important role in the
process and its quite warm here these days
Warm regards,
Ben
Patrick
July 17, 2013 at 4:55 am - Reply...
I would still wait the week or so.. The curds will get thicker as
more fat/protein separate out from the whey. It should reach
stability when the curd raft on top is no longer getting thicker.
Then it is ready. Its kind of a judgement call when you think its
done though. Youre right in a really warm climate it will be faster,
but leaving it a little long is no problem, within reason. For
example if you notice curds after 1-2 days, maybe harvest after 5
days just to be sure its run its course, but still a little faster than
the 1 week youd wait in a cooler climate.
Ben Rho
July 18, 2013 at 12:58 pm -
Thanks Patrick! ill make a new batch.. i think mine went

bad it smelled foul. this time ill wait a bit longer. thanks
Ben
Ben
August 8, 2013 at 7:15 am Hi Patrick.. just want to report back my second batch
was perfect! thanks so much! im on my 5th batch now!
thanks thanks!
Patrick
August 10, 2013 at 6:54 am Thats awesome Ben! Glad to hear it. Now you have lacto
you can play around with all the ways to use it!
Ben
August 8, 2013 at 7:25 am Hi Patrick.. im just curious.. would it be possible for other
good microbes like yeast and other good guys to be in the
serum? or the milk dissuaded them from proliferating as
well. thanks
Ben
Patrick
August 10, 2013 at 7:00 am Hi Ben,
Great question! Well the idea according to Gil is to use the
rice wash to attract a wide range of beneficial microbes.
Then you add the milk, and the abundance of lactose
facilitates the dominance of lactobacillus spp. But, while
they dont multiply, the others will go dormant and persist
in the serum. When conditions favor growth for them again
(like when you dilute and apply to a compost pile), they
will come out of dormancy.
Cheers,
Patrick
Joe
July 6, 2013 at 3:20 pm - Reply...
Your recipe calls for letting the rice wash water sit for a week or so, then mixing it with
20 parts water. I however, had to leave on a trip and left my rice wash water sitting in a
jar for the past 23 days. Im wondering if I ruined it by letting it sit for too long? Or is it
still good? Also, when I returned from my trip, I noticed the wash turned from milky
white to a clear yellowish color. Is this what were trying to aim for? Thanks.
Joe
July 7, 2013 at 4:48 pm - Reply...
Sorry, I meant mixing 1 part Lacto to 10 parts milk (was thinking about the mix ratio of
grow fertilizer to water).
o
Patrick
July 8, 2013 at 10:46 am - Reply...
Hey Joe,
I think your rice wash will be fine. The color sounds great there is nothing wrong
with that. Is it separated into layers? Youll want the yellowish fluid on the
bottom or middle layer to add to the milk. Let me know how it goes..
Patrick
Adam
July 8, 2013 at 12:01 am - Reply...
Hi I am experiencing some problems with getting my milk/rice wash to turn into
lacto/whey. I wait until i have activity in my rice wash then combine milk and rice
wash and leave in a warm dark cupboard (lid not on tight) and the last batch never
progressed and the milk went off after 10 days. After 4 days i even added some of the
lacto serum from a previous batch to help get it started and that didnt seem to help. The
areas is not hot say 17-22C. My first two batches worked great, can you help as to what i
may be doing wrong!?
o
Patrick
July 8, 2013 at 10:51 am - Reply...

Hey Adam,
Tough one, hard to say without being there looking at it. Well the milk should go
off in terms of curdling, but if youve made previous batches already then you
know what I mean. I guess it could be not warm enough but I think 17-22 would
be adequate. What does it look like exactly? Its not forming curds on top and
whey below? Also, completely anaerobic is best. You might try sprinkling oat
bran or rice bran on top of the milk to keep it anaerobic.
Patrick
Adam
July 9, 2013 at 4:41 am - Reply...
Thanks Patrick, I will try the oat bran. I guess it looks like a stuck
fermentation (similar to when you make beer). It has lots of tiny bubbles
on the surface and a slight off smell but the first two batches were all done
and complete within 3-5 days (with same temp range). I have closed the
lid on the container so hope that assists with the process. I am using store
bought milk and can access large quantities of raw milk from a diary but
didnt want to go down that path UNTIL i have this issue sorted! My rice
wash is kept in the same room but just on the bench with paper towel over
the glass jar lid. The lacto is made in a 5Lt plastic container with sufficient
head space. I also make my kefir in the same cupboard and that works
fine! All a little perplexing after the first two batches went great guns! The
only thing i can think of is that the rice wash hasnt attracted sufficient
lacto bacteria to get it started even though the rice wash had a film layer at
the top? Can you restart the fermentation process (say like beer) by adding
more yeast (aka lacto serum) from a previous batch? apologies for the beer
analogy but thats what it seems like to me? Regards
Adam
Adam
July 9, 2013 at 4:43 am - Reply...
With regards to what it looks like.There has been no separation
and the mixture is still all the same milky colour (apart from the
bubbles on the surface. Regards
Adam
Patrick
July 11, 2013 at 7:55 am Weird. There should be curds on top. Are you using skim
milk??? Ha ha.. I would throw it and try again with
different milk, sorry for the lame advice but I dont know if
saving it would work. Add some lacto and give it a day or
two if you want to try, but anaerobic processes can be
tricky and you can end up with bad microbes if youre not
careful.
For the rice wash, did it form three layers and smell a little
sour? If temperature permits, leave it outside when its
fermenting.
Well hope it gets back on track next time! There is no
better source than raw milk whether cow goat sheep
whatever. If you can use fresh dairy milk thatll be best.
Otherwise a nice fatty non-UHT store-bought milk should
work fine.
Adam
July 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm - Reply...
Hi Gil & Patrick,
no luck with the last batch of lacto, I have put it down to insufficient microbes in my rice
wash to start with. Its winter hear so obviously not enough bacteria being active etc.or
didnt leave wash long enough to generate some lab. My question relates to this point.
Can I inoculate the rice wash with some lab to help it kick off? I have some in a spray
bottle that I use as a deodoriser?
some anecdotal feedback, all our animals are on lacto and the results are amazing, its
winter here, chickens are fat, full of feathers and looking very good, the dogs use to emit
foul smells after eating canned dog food ( used if we ran out of there normal feed) but
they too have put on weight and no back-end smells. we also have horses, the weanling
foals are in excellent condition and the brood mares who are back in foal have never gone
through a winter in such great condition. they all have energy to burn as well.
I also have found a source of RAW milk so will now go into large scale
productionhahaha, and now collecting buckets of fish guts to make my fish emulsion
fertiliser.
Thanks for the info and the great website.
o
Patrick
July 13, 2013 at 10:59 am - Reply...
Yeah, that sucks about the bad batch of lacto. Well hopefully it works out for you
next time. Ive used lacto to inoculate milk many times, but Ive noticed there are
usually less curds when you do this. Im not sure why or if that means it isnt as
good a batch. Probably the best way is still the rice wash.
That is great to hear about your animals! Lacto is great stuff Im glad youre
seeing its effectiveness in action. Try fermenting the animal feed in a lacto wash
for 1-3 days before feeding. You should see great results in terms of weight-gainper-food-intake (food conversion rate).
John
July 16, 2013 at 2:32 am - Reply...
hi patrick ,i wanna make 1 L rice wash , how many pounds of rice should i use ?
thank you
o
Patrick
July 17, 2013 at 4:21 am - Reply...
Hi John, good question. For just 1 L rice wash you shouldnt need too much rice.
More rice = more nutrients. Its up to you how nutrient-dense you want your
solution, it should attract microbes either way. Id add a cup or two of rice to the
bowl and add a little more than 1L water, the rice will start sucking it up pretty
fast. Whisk it around to get some carbos in the water, then drain and you have
your rice wash.
Karen
July 17, 2013 at 12:30 am - Reply...
Hi Patrick,
the milk curds settled down instead of at the top. why do you think that is, and is this still
ok?
this didnt happen when i used powdered milk in a previous batch whereas this time is
used fresh milk. btw, our little west highland terrier loved the cheese!
Karen
o
Patrick
July 17, 2013 at 4:49 am - Reply...
Hmm normally they rise to the top but thats ok. As long as it separated into curds
and whey you should be good. You kept it anaerobic during fermentation?
Yeah the dogs should love the cheese, and it should be a great digestive aid! I
would limit how much you give them though I think too much will cause
diarrhea.
Drew
July 23, 2013 at 5:10 pm - Reply...
Greetings, Pat!
Its been a while since I posted last. Weve recently started raising chickens and I was
wondering about fermenting their feed. How much LAB are we talking about using to
ferment the feed? We dont want to use enough to make the feed mush, right? Were not
actually soaking the feed, just spraying enough in and mixing to coat evenly? And is it
wise to mix up large batches of inoculated feed, or only enough for a few days worth of
feeding?
And on a side note, I just wanted to testify as to the deodorizing power of LAB serum. I
am building compost piles this year. About one every 7-10 days. Without going into a lot
a detail, the vegetable/fruit materials that I use come in plastic garbage bags and
invariably have lots of holes in them. During storage awaiting composting, sometimes
things would begin to liquefy and leak out of the bag and soak into the carpet that covers
the floor of the hot storage shed, making a BIG stink. One spray of LAB on the rug and
in less than 24 yours (closer to 12 Id say), there is no odor to speak of. None! It really
works! We use it on the floor of the chicken coop (hay) as well. Thanks so much for
sharing this wonderful knowledge with the world.
o
Patrick
July 24, 2013 at 4:46 am - Reply...
Hey Drew, nice to hear from you again! I do still have your suggestions for the
site in my back pocket. Progress on the site is kinda slow now that I have the
weekly Flog to keep up, but I will be rolling out updates as I can.
Regarding your questions, I havent personally done chicken feed fermenting, just
the pig feed. With the pigs we would soak the food until it is pretty well rehydrated. But that is for pigs, which will just gobble up whatever slop you put in
their feeders. I imagine for chickens you wouldnt use quite as much water, you
wouldnt make it mushy like you said. But you should still use enough to make it
quite damp, so it doesnt just dry out. There is no rule here, play around with it
and see how it works for you. Also, remember this is with very diluted LAB.
After the pure serum is diluted 20x with water, you add 1tbsp of that to a gallon of
water and use that water to wet the feed. Of course you can use stronger mix but
this dilution is enough to get the job done.
You dont want it sitting too long Id suggest 3 days as a general guideline (you
can do more or less no problem though). For the pigs we use 3 barrels, and feed
the third barrel each day, refill it and move it back to position 1. That way the pigs
always eat 3-day fermented food. You can do the same thing with the chicken
feed. Or if you dont want to mess with that you can just use one ferment bucket
and refill it every 3 days. Feed out of that each day and they will get progressively
more fermented food.
Pretty awesome deodorizing effect right? You should spray your compost piles
with LAB too, you should see faster composting and less flies. Also, spraying the
fruit in the bags wouldnt hurt if theyre sitting there a few days might as well
get them started, haha. Anyway I know thats more work for you, these are just
suggestions if you have the time/inclination. Cheers and happy composting let
me know if any questions with the above.
Joseph
July 28, 2013 at 1:07 pm - Reply...
Hi Patrick and Gil. First Id like you to know that Im extremely grateful for all the
knowledge youre sharing with us. My question is this: I am experimenting with an
alternative LAB serum without rice wash. I have collected different weeds from my
garden and fermented them, just as you would make Kimchi or sauerkraut,i.e. I put the
weeds in a jar filled with brine, without exposing the weeds to the air in the jar. After 10
days, the fermentation had finished, since it tasted acidic. My question is: should I dilute
it the same way the standard LAB serum is diluted? Do I need to add sugar to stabilize it?
The reason that I chose this alternative version, is that fermenting vegetables is quite easy
for me, while the rice wash method wasnt succesful for some reason.
Regards,
Joseph
o
Patrick
July 29, 2013 at 5:52 am - Reply...
Hi Joseph,
Welcome, thanks for joining the conversation, sign up for our mailing list too if
you want. Good question here Ill have to ask Gil about it. My main concern
would be the amount of salt. Too much salt affects the osmotic balance of water
in the soil and makes nutrients very hard for plant roots to take up. I havent
practiced that style of fermentation so cant comment on it too much. Ill ask Gil
about it though. For now Id treat it the same way we do LAB and see how that
works for you, I just dont like the salinity factor.
Cheers,
Patrick
Joseph
July 30, 2013 at 1:06 am - Reply...
Ok, Patrick, I will just do that. Concerning the salinity factor, I myself
dont think it should be a problem, since I start fermenting with 30 grams
per liter. After adding milk and sugar, the ratio would be 1.5 gram per
liter, so when you would actually spray it on your plants, the final ratio
would be 1 mg/L, which should be safe, as far as I know. I also use Celtic
seasalt, which is just evaporated seawater. Dr Maynard Murray did some
groundbreaking work on the subject of growing crops with seaminerals,
you might have heard of him. I agree with you though that you should be
cautious with the sodium level of the soil.
Joseph
Patrick
July 30, 2013 at 1:34 am - Reply...
Ahh so youre just using the ferment liquid in place of the rice
wash? Yes that should dilute out a lot, that should be fine. Sorry I
think I misread your question a bit. I dont see why your
fermentation wash wouldnt work in place of rice wash. Ill have to
look into dr murray, thanks for that. cheers!
Henry
July 28, 2013 at 2:56 pm - Reply...
Patrick,
I have been using a batch of LB mixed with molasses that I made in April of this year. I
have 2 jars of the culture (without molasses)that have been in the refrigerator that were
made at the same time.
Having said that, and since I dont have a microscope is there an easy testing method to
see if the critters in the culture are still alive?
Many thanks!
Patrick
July 29, 2013 at 3:53 am - Reply...
Hmmm tough one.. I got a microscope for this reason, but Im pretty into this
stuff needless to say. Im sure theres an easy waybut all I can think of now is
adding some to sugar water in a sealed container and checking gas pressure the
next day(or two). If there is gas buildup then your culture is still good to go the
microbes you introduced have started eating the sugar and produced gas as
byproduct of metabolism.
Annie
August 1, 2013 at 9:38 pm - Reply...
Hi Patrick, Bryan taught me how to do LAB and tne IMOs, its amazing what the soil in
my garden like now. So beautifully loose and the plants are doing so well. I am into
making all the recipes you have printed here and waiting impatiently for them to be ready
for use. Thanks go to Gil, Bryan and you.
o
Patrick
Wow, thats great to hear! Thanks for the support and enthusiasm. Pretty cool
right? I think so too.
Annie
Patrick, I heard Gil in a seminar he conducted in Hawaii where he explained how to make
the LAB. In his talk, he said when he makes the LAB, he adds equal parts molasses to the
serum (whey). The he said in order to make it go further, he adds to that concoction 20
parts water. Does this still stand? Can I add 20 parts water after mixing the whey with
molasses or is that step now defunct? My prepration will be ready on the 8th or 9th
August, would appreciate a reply by then? Thanks patrick, am I rushing you?
o
Patrick
Hi Annie, yep you still add 20 parts water, that is there in the recipe, at the start of
the how to use section. You can still store it after adding 20 parts water. For me,
I keep a bottle of the undiluted serum+sugar handy, then add 1.5 tbsp from that to
a 500ml bottle, fill with water, and use that for day-to-day stuff dilute further
and use for digestion, odors, clogged drains, etc.
Annie
Thats taking the dilution far, wonderful. I didnt understand the dilution. No wonder
some of my plants withered and died. I killed them by getting the dilution wrong. I put 120 and started spraying them and the soil. Thank you for all the instant help, you are a
great help
John
hi ,im in the 7 step , after 8 days ,temp 20 grades , the curds are there but the water under
the curds ,is white , it is ok or i miss something ?
greetings
john
o
John
i forgot to tell ,i use skim milk
Patrick
Hi John,
Skim milk is fine. Also the white color shouldnt be a problem, youre
really looking for curds as the good indicator there is microbial activity.
Strain it and try it!
Patrick
Henry
Patrick,
Similar to John this time around the curd that surfaced was very
very dense , and an inch thick, I mean you really had to see it.
However there was a tinge of yellow in the serum that was a lot
lighter than previous batches.
The only difference is this time I used raw milk, which I will
continue to do from now on. I dont think the color is a big deal as
you mentioned.
Patrick
August 10, 2013 at 8:03 am Yeah exactly Henry, youll see little variations like that
depending on what ingredients you use. The raw milk will
do that the more fat and protein in the milk used, the
thicker and denser the curds on top.
Kristen
Hello- I am on the 7th day of the milk fermentation process and it smells horrible! At the
time of creation I did not have detailed instructions, so used serum from rice water that
did not have 3 layers in it AND I just covered the rice water/milk liquid with a
cheesecloth. I have it in a cabinet and can smell it when I am in the same room! I keep
thinking that it will go away, but not happening. Would either of these contribute to the
odor? Should I start over? THANKS! Kristen
o
Patrick
Hmm, it shouldnt smell very much. Does it form curds? I would probably start
over following the recipe just to be on the safe side, sorry
Kristen
Thanks Patrick- I figured that would be the answer so am all set with some
fresh raw milk. I still have the original mixture- it seems to smell more
sour now as opposed to just plain bad! There are about 1 of curds on top!
Does that mean it has some potential? I am going to use it as a compost
enhancer, so I guess it cant hurt anything. Thanks for the reply!
Patrick

oh yeah, that sounds pretty good now. It should be fine as compost
activator..
Henry
Greetings Patrick,
I would like a little clarification if you please. In just about every use the mix is 2 TBSP.
per liter. The question is this. As a water drench to plants in containers do you use 8
TBSP. per gallon or 1-2 TBSP. per gallon?
Many thanks!
o
Patrick
Hi Henry,
As a soil drench I think 1-2tbsp/gal would be fine. It doesnt need to be as
concentrated for that application.
Cheers,
Patrick
Annie
Patrick, can I pick your mathematical brain please? I have very limited space in my
apartment to store 20 bottles of LAB. I made the latest batch from fresh milk for friends
and family. In its undiluted form, if I use 1T of pure LAB, how much water should I add
in order to consume it? Thank you for not asking me to use my calculator.
o
Patrick
Heres what I do Annie, its easier to do it this way:
I store 1 500ml bottle of pure serum out. I have a second 500ml bottle thats
empty. Fill that with water + 1.5tbsp of the pure serum, thats your 1:20 dilution.
Then keep that bottle in the fridge and use it (diluted properly) in all your daily
applications. For instance, add 1-2tbsp to 1L water and use as odor killer.
Hope that helps,
Patrick
Ricky
Hi,
Would just like to ask about the Aid Compost as one of the many uses that you have
mentioned, do you already have the detailed post about it. If yes, would you please share
the link. I am planning to start composting at home, I believe that information will really
help.
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Ricky
o
Patrick
Hi Ricky,
Great! Youre interested in composting using it! Thats fun.. I just did that
recently but it was a small batch of compost. The materials to be composted were
very dry so I needed to add water until the compost was the right moisture content
(around 65%). Rather than plain water I used water with lacto at a rate of 12tbsp/L. Actually for my compost I used water with homemade fish fertilizer,
grow fertilizer and BIM mixed in. But for the purposes of this example lets
pretend it was lacto.
But your compost might be a lot bigger pile. In that case you can dilute the lacto
more (to make it go further), no problem. Or if the pile doesnt need any water,
just wait till it dries out a bit, then when it needs water+turning in, mix lacto with
the water youre using.
In any case, when you start the pile you can mist it with a 1-2tbsp/L mix to
introduce the microbes.
You can join our mailing list and youll get the post on this through email when I
come out with it.
Cheers,
Patrick
Ricky
Thanks Patrick, this is helpful. Yes, just joined.
Would also like to ask -(sorry this may not be the right venue but I have tried to use your
feedback form and for some reason it was not working) if Herbana farm is selling the
products from the Recipes that are listed in this site. I am specifically interested with
BIM, and Neem extract, and also Bokashi which I plan to try also for anaerobic
composting (not listed here but I saw the recipe from Gils Grow Your Own IMO pdf).
Thanks again.
Ricky
o
Patrick
Yep, they are all for sale. I think the easiest way to get is the Salcedo market
every Saturday in Salcedo Village..
Frdrique
Hi Ive tried the lactobacillus serum recipe.But Im not sure if it is good or bad.When I
went to collect the lacto-bacillus serum 1part serum/10 part milk after 10 days of it sitting
on the top of my fridge there where little maggots stock in the curd and a few dead ones
arround my container.Is this normal? or does it mean I have a bad batch?
Thanks in advance for your reply and thanks for all the usefull informations on this web
site.
Fred
o
Patrick
Thats ok. I would cover it next time so flies dont get in and lay eggs, but having
them in there is fine.
Frdrique
Ok thats what I thought actually but thanks for the quick answer.
best regards
Fred
luvin
April 20, 2014 at 9:54 am - Reply...
i should ask the same question on maggots.. yeah i got the answer now.
there must be no flies in your preparations so that no maggot larvae will be
laid upon my milk-rice wash solution thanks a lot, by the way i still
pursued with the procedure disregarding those maggots and applied the
LAB onto my rice field last cropping season (March harvest) and i reaped
quite remarkable compared to previous croppings, though i only applied it
once but also introduced ammonium and urea before the LAB. i plan to
make more LAB for the next season.., maybe fish emulsion too and fruit
extracts.
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 9:56 pm - Reply...
Hey Luvin,
Yeah, no worries about the maggots, if you are just applying to
crops it should be fine still. If you are drinking it, maybe keep
them out just cause, haha.
Yep, the LAB in combination with the nitrogen fertilizers, should
be excellent!! Especially in rice crops that have low oxygen
environments.
Try the fish emulsion, that should be excellent also!
Cheers,
Patrick
Maita
Hi! I make my own yogurt and get whey as a byproduct. Can I use it as prescribed here or
is it a lot different from the whey I would get if I follow your recipe to the letter?
o
Patrick
You know Im not sure Maita, Im not sure how your whey is.. But Id just follow
the recipe here and see how it turns out! Should be interesting to compare them!
Let us know what you find. Cheers!
Patrick
Tristan
Hello Gil and Patrick! your site is very informative! I have question regarding the
formation of the curds. After 6 days after doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw a
greenly and reddish color on top of the curd. And on the other container it is like a dried
curd of top turning kinda yellowish red. Can I still use the liquid below the curd? Im just
wondering because when I first made my LABS, all the curds were white.
Also, after mixing the pure lactic acid bacteria serum and molasses, is it natural to have a
film (like molds) on top of it? I just observed that the one pour into an airtight container
did not have these. But the other container (5 gallon with faucet) produced a film like
molds.
Thank you so much and more power!
o
Patrick
Hmm, are they molds? Green and black molds are bad toss if you see those.
The dried top part of the curd is ok, it just dried out sounds like. How long have
you left them out with curds formed? Maybe you need to drain them off faster.
I wouldnt store the lacto+molasses in a container with a lot of air space
generally. After you mix with molasses, try to put in an airtight container without
much room at the top for air.
Hope this helps and thanks for joining up!
Patrick
Tristan

Nope its not green and black molds its like brown molds. maybe it forms
when I pour it in a container with lots of air space.
I left them out for about 6 days. Usually after 2 days curds are formed but
I wait for at least 6 days as per instructions in the manual. Is it ok to
harvest the liquid after 3-4 days after the curds were formed on the 2nd
day? Also, the dried part of the curd is ok, but how about with the top part
of the curd that has green and red color? Is it bad to harvest the liquid
below?
The first batch I made, when I pour it in an air tight container I left at least
50% air. I open it everyday to release the pressure it produced. If I fill the
container with no much air in it, wouldnt it explode?
Thank you so much for answering my questions! =)
Patrick
October 23, 2013 at 5:46 am - Reply...
Hey Tristan,
Yep its fine to harvest after 3-4 days if you feel its ready then.
Hmm if there is obvious green mold on top, the powdery green
mold, Id toss it if youre planning to drink it. If its for the garden
or compost pile I wouldnt worry as much. If the green is just
discoloration I wouldnt worry so much either. Anyway harvest
quicker if you feel its ready that should help.
Actually if you leave less airspace it shouldnt build up as much
pressure. Some law of physics I forget off the top of my head, but
less space is better.
Hope this helps. Sorry for the late reply just got back from
vacation.
Patrick
nik amin
November 27, 2013 at 11:25 am - Reply...
Hello Gil,Patrick and Tristan! your site is very informative! I have
question regarding the formation of the curds. After 3 days after
doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw a white and reddish

color on top of the curd, Can I still use the liquid below the curd?
why the change in color? Im just wondering because when I first
made my LABS, all the curds were white.
And on the other container the curd is only beginning to harden
after 7 days,the color is white though, what probably went wrong?
Tristan tq for sharing
Tq for your kind advice
Patrick
November 28, 2013 at 2:08 am The color change is ok, it just got some mold/bacterial
growth on top. Watch for green or black mold, those are
generally pathogenic and you need to discard if you see
that. In this case you can still use the liquid below the curd
no problem.
Cheers,
Patrick
Annie
Patrick, I have an important question to ask. If you dont know the answer, I would
deeply appreciate asking Gil? How do you use the whey before you add the molasses? I
know you add 1-1 then 1-20 then use 1 -2 or 3T to a L of water. How does Gil advice
people who want to cut out the molasses and use the whey? I know he did say it was an
expensive method and that it will last 6 months in the fridge. Thank you. At the moment
I drink 1 T in 8 ozs water. I would like to try it without the molasses.
o
Patrick
If you dont add molasses, like you said first make sure you store it in the fridge.
Then, Id just cut the dosage in half. So use 0.5T in 8oz water. You can use more
or less there is no rule on this. Experiment and see what works for you. But for
starters Id do that, just cut your dose in half.
Mary
September 3, 2013 at 6:00 am - Reply...

Hi, Im interested in Bokashi and searching through the Internet led me to you. Thank
you very much for sharing. Your website is very informative and I think your recipe is
the simplest that I found. I take composting seriously and I keep one in my tiny balcony. I
plan to use the serum to help speed up my compost. Im just wondering Where can one
buy molasses in the Philippines? Also, is this serum like homemade Yakult? (Does it
taste the same?) Im sorry if my questions sound silly, but your reply will be greatly
appreciated. Maraming salamat po.
o
Patrick
Hi Mary,
Thats great to hear about your composting efforts even on your small balcony.
You dont have to use molasses, it is kinda hard to find here in the Phils except in
bulk for farming. You can use brown sugar, like muscovado that is readily avail
here.
Yep, this serum is like Yakult but better! Higher diversity of beneficial microbes.
Hahaha Im sorry to say it tastes nothing like Yakult, the taste takes some getting
used to. I love it but my wife hates the taste no matter how many times we take it.
Cheers,
Patrick
Deano
Can you give me an idea of the ratio of curds to whey that I can expect after combining
the initial rice wash culture with the 10 parts milk? I am about to mix the two
components in a 4.5 liter/gallon demi john, and would like an idea of the size of
container(s) that I will need when I mix the whey with molasses.
Thanks
Deano
o
Patrick
Hi Deano,
Sorry for the late reply Ive been away.. The amount of curds really depends on
the milk you use. Curds are protein and fat essentially and so the fattier the milk
the thicker the curds. But in any case you should have more than half whey at
least when finished.
Thanks,
Patrick
linda
September 18, 2013 at 9:23 pm - Reply...
Hi,
I just found this site & was wondering if you could help me. I recently learned how to
make the LAB culture in same way as your recipe above & am wildly in love with it.
Among many other things I have found it is excellent as a treatment for my hands which
suffer problems caused by using detergents and I want my daughter to try it on her acne
but unless I can get it to smell good she would never go near it (you described a sour
type smell above but mine smells more like cheese I have pure serum in the fridge, no
molasses or sugar in it). I just dont know what I can put in it to make it smell good
without risking killing it, for example herbs & essential oils are generally antimicrobial
which would completely defeat the purpose. Do you have any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
o
Patrick
November 21, 2013 at 9:52 pm - Reply...
Hi Linda,
Great to hear you are enjoying the serum, that is awesome it works for your
hands, what a great application.
That is a great question about the smell..let me think.. You can dilute the pure
serum a lot and the smell will be much more tolerable but also the effectiveness
will probably decrease I guess. You could also apply to only the affected areas as
a spot treatment and it wouldnt be as bothersome.. Neither of these is a good
solution though.
You might try something acidic since it shouldnt harm the acid tolerant lacto too
badly like lemonjuice? lemon juice is a known anti-bacterial because of the
acidity but I dont think that will affect lacto as much, might help the smell. Hard
to say, everything smelly I can think of is anti-bacterialGood luck, let me know
if you find something!
Hermann

Its not entirely true that plans dont utilize organic constituents as new research suggests.
Plants can also digest larger molecules and even entire bacteria.
This knowledge is absolutely groundbreaking. Read for yourself.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011915
o
Patrick
Hermann,
That is one of the most interesting journals Ive read! Wow! That is crazy!
Specific, localized, cellular level interactions between plant roots and microbes in
which the plants deliberately weaken the root wall to bring in microbes and
subsequently digest them for Nitrogen. That is wild. You might see this
regurgitated in the Flog one of these days, that is really cool stuff.
Thanks for sharing!
Patrick
Ben Cains
Hey there
Hypothetically if I was to drink the LAB what dilution would I use?
I skimmed through the posts and didnt see any info?
Thanks for your time
o
Patrick
So you have the serum+molasses right. Then you dilute that 1:20 with water and
keep this in the fridge. I drink 1tbsp of that in a glass of water after each meal.
Works like a charm.
alex
I bought cheapest human probiotic capsules with lactobacillus(10 caps for 2.5$),
tossed em in a bottle with 1 liter of milk and 2 tbsp of dextrose.
I taped a baloon on the top of the bottle to keep the bottle closed airtight
and to have room left for gasses that will be released,as the balloon will inflate.
Hopefully,in 7-10 days,lactobacillus will multiply.
I dont have experience with this method,so I am realy hoping on some comments or
sugestions
I am trying this because its 10 times cheaper for me,
maple sirup and brown sugar are quite the expense when trying to conserve,and here on
the other hand you buy capsuled colonies and just activate them with dextrose and
multiply them in milk.
And its stored easier and more convenient to use,you dont have to time making your
serum weeks ahead,if you need it right now,you can simply make stronger concentration
by puting more capsules in the water with dextrose and wait for a couple of
hours(6-12hours?not sure on this one,but not too long I think) untill they activate and
serum should be ready for use,and i would guess in a much higher concentration then the
home-grown stuff.
Once again,comments and sugestions are apreciated,since i just started
testing this method.Use at your own risk ;p
o
alex
I think this actualy worked and it took only 4 days.
There is no milk,only a layer of thick curds floating on a yellow(ish) liquid.
Bottle is warm and steamy from the inside so the soup feels like its preety active,
baloon inflated only a little bit.
I will strain this and use as instructed above(1:20),
and use dextrose as food for leftover concentrate.
Any comments on this method? I am not sure what Ive grown here,only guessing
that it should be LactoBacillus and hoping for the best.
Peace.
alex
edit on my first post,because its badly written:
i opened one capsule of probiotic and poured content of it into 1L of milk,
not the whole pack of 10 capsules.
Patrick
Hey Alex,
Great method! That is really interesting. Yeah, I dont see why it wouldnt
work. Im not sure about the diversity as leaving ricewash out attracts a
wide range of microbes, out of which you multiply the lactobacilli using
milk. But in terms of a lacto serum, I think this is great! Im not sure if
adding more capsules would accelerate the process but that would be
interesting to see.
If you can find any sugar source for cheap where you are, Id recommend
using that to stabilize your serum once youve strained it out. Any glucose,
fructose, dextrose, all the simple carbs would work.
Sorry for the late reply Im still catching up after being away. Nice work
though, great method!
Patrick
shawn
October 23, 2013 at 7:00 pm - Reply...
been making lacto-serum for a month. noticed the last batch of 20 liters didnt separate.
curds/yogurt were mixed with the serum. It was very difficult but not impossible to
separate the serum from the curds. used cheese cloth to squeeze the serum outwow it
took a long time to do this process. any ideas on how to get a better separation of curds
and serum?
thanks from brasil
shawn
o
Patrick
I think i answered this in email, things are a little disjointed since I got back but
use the contact form if youre still having these issues..
Hanson
October 24, 2013 at 11:15 pm - Reply...
hello! thank you for posting this in your website. after the whole process, how can i
preserve the lacto+molasses mixture? how long is the shelf life? avoid sunlight? air tight
container?
thank you
o
Patrick
lacto+molasses you can leave out as long as its sealed without much airspace, it
will keep that way for a good long time(years). Keep out of direct sunlight and in
airtight container, yes. Once you open it and start using, its recommended to keep
in fridge.
nik amin
Dear Patrick and Gil,
Great website.
Can I mix Lacto plus with bloom fertiliser, grow fertiliser and BIM together? before or
after dilution with water? what is the best ratio? what are the best plant and fruit to use?
I want to use it for my paddy farm, kindly advice,keep up the great work, tqvm for
helping me in particular and mother earth in general.
o
nik amin
Great website.
Can I mix Lacto plus with bloom fertiliser, grow fertiliser and BIM together?
before or after dilution with water? what is the best ratio? what are the best plant
and fruit to use?
I want to use it for my paddy farm, kindly advice,keep up the great work, tqvm
for helping me in particular and mother earth in general.
Patrick
Hi Nik,
You can mix any combination as long as overall dilution is about

1tbsp/gal. Mix them all into the water, not together before mixing with
water. So for example in 5 gallons of water you would have 5tbsp of
fertilizers any combination like maybe 2tbsp bloom, 1tbsp grow, 1tbsp
fish fert, 1tbsp lacto. BIM you only need a small amount since it is quite
concentrated, but adding more is fine.
Thanks,
Patrick
rene
Patrick & Gil, thank you very for having a very informative and helpful site. I want to ask
a follow-up question on the fermenting of feeds. You mentioned, to be sure that the feeds
has no antibiotics as it will kill the microbes. What about toxin binders and mold
inhibitors normally used in feeds? Will these not kill the microbes? Thanks in advance
and more power.
o
Patrick
hmm I think those would be fine rene. If you are curious, take a sample of the
feed, put it in a sealable jar with sugar, water and lacto. Seal the jar and let it sit
overnight. Crack it the next day and see if you hear a hiss. If there is built up gas
in there, then fermentation is going on. Give it a few days if you dont hear a hiss
right away. Anyway thats a super simple test to see if it is really fermenting.
rene
Thnx and more power, Patrick. Will do it.
John
Love all your info thank you.
One question, can you mix your different items in the same water if the dilution is
correct. So to my 5 gallons of water could I add the BIM, lacto, and fish Hydrolyze (or
bloom/grow) to the same jug mix and water? Or do you suggest using them all
separately?
Patrick
Yep you can mix them all together no problem, I recommend it in fact. Just make
sure your dilution is correct. I dont usually mix more than 1tbsp/gal of any given
nutrients. You could, just havent had the need.
Loving it
Have you tried mixing the molasses in with the milk? I was thinking 1 part molasses for
10 parts milk. My thoughts were that it would be a boost to the bacteria, dont know if
its necessary with the lactose already present in the milk.
o
Patrick
I wouldnt try that as it promotes all kinds bacteria. By adding the milk(lactose
source) you are giving the right bacteria(lactobacilli) the competitive advantage.
If you add sugar youre leveling out the playing field again which in this case we
dont want.
Lee
Hi Patrick and Gil,
I am interested in trying out the lactobacillus serum. Do I just retain the water left over
from the rice wash or do I leave the rice in the water during the initial stage?
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Lee
o
Patrick
Hi Lee,
Just use the water left over from the rice wash. You dont need to leave the rice in
the water.
Cheers,
Patrick
nik amin
Hello Gil and Patrick! your site is very informative! I have question regarding the
formation of the curds. After 3 days after doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw a
white and reddish color on top of the curd, Can I still use the liquid below the curd? why
the change in color? Im just wondering because when I first made my LABS, all the
curds were white.
And on the other container the curd is only beginning to harden after 7 days,the color is
white though, what probably went wrong?
Tq for your kind advice
Rik
December 4, 2013 at 5:07 am - Reply...
Hello Patrick and Gil,
Thanks to your site I have learned a lot, specially on lacto serum. Just want to ask if my
serum is filled with good bacteria. I mixed raw fresh milk to my rice wash, and have
thick curd but white silky molds grew on top of it. I have not smelled any foul nor
vinegary odor on my batch. May I ask if it already accumulated enough lacto on it?
Hope you could guide me through this.
Thanks a lot.
o
Patrick
Hi Rik,
Thats great, white molds are no problem, that will happen sometimes. Just watch
for green/yellow/black molds, those are more likely to be pathogenic. If you have
thick curds then the solution below should be nicely concentrated lacto! Sounds
like you did it right!
Patrick
eulamae
Hello Sir,
Great Job! God bless you! oh sir can is it safe to use in human?
Eula
o
Patrick
Hi Eula,
Thanks for the praise.. Yep, I take it every day, it is awesome for digestion and
really helps prevent gastro-intestinal upsets (LBM, haha)..
Cheers,
Patrick
elsiehoreb
Hi Patrick
Great site.
Can the 1:20 LAB be used in bokashi bin to replace bokashi bran ? I would like to just
spray the 1:20 LAB on the food scrap to be bokashi fermented. Do you think this will
work ? Tried very hard to get wheat bran (DIY bokashi mix) but cant get any around my
area in Malaysia.
Thanks
o
Patrick
Hi Elsie,
Yeah really, its impossible to find here in the Philippines either I went through
that also. Good timing joining the mailing list! Im writing an article on Bokashi
right now actually, itll go up in a few weeks.
Basically you can turn anything into bokashi bran it doesnt even really have
to be a high carbon source, just cant be a simple carbohydrate source, it has to be
something substantial. Bokashi bran is just to ensure the right microbes
proliferate. Newspaper, sawdust, rice bran (our best equivalent to wheat bran here
in asia) etc. Im making bokashi bran out of a mix of dog food, copra meal,
coffee grounds and carbonized rice hull right now it will serve as dog food,
cockroach food, and bokashi bran for the bokashi bin.
You are on the right track with the 1:20 LAB. Use that with sugar to inoculate
your bran shredded papers, sawdust, rice bran, etc. Seal that up and let it
ferment, let the microbes multiply. After a few weeks you have your bran! Use
this in the bokashi bin start the bin with a 2-4 layer of it, make sure the food
layers are no more than 1 thick, compress everything to make it as airtight as
possible you know how it goes.
You can just spray the food with the 1:20 LAB if youre feeling lazy that will
work. Add a little sugar to the sprayer when you do help the microbes
proliferate. Having bran just helps house the microbes and provide a slowrelease-LAB system you know
Cheers,
Patrick
elsiehoreb
Thanks Patrick.
So can I use coco peat to replace wheat bran? It is quite cheap. I can get it at less than
USD 3 per big block.
Intend to slowly break loose the block and work with a manageable amount. Then
inoculate with the LAB 1:20 + molasses (do I need to further dilute the 1:20 ?). Ferment
airtight for 14 days, then sun dry it etc etc.
Will the coco peat work as a substitute for wheat bran ? If this works, I will be very
excited.
Just sprayed my plants and long standing compost with LAB 1:20 (further diluted 1 tbs to
a litre). Should the compost be given heavier dosage, ie 2 tbs to a litre?
Hope my plants and compost will thrive.
Thanks for helping
Elsie
Nik Amin
Hi Patrick and Gil,
Hope both of u r in good health.
When is the best time to start using LAB for rearing pigs and chicken? At what ratio?
How often should use?
To very much, merry Xmas and happy new year
o
Patrick
Hi Nik,
Ill have to talk with Gil about this, hes not on here much so I doubt hell see this
thread but anyway Ill take a stab at it. Its not harmful to use when they are
young. When the pigs are weaned and starting solid food you can start fermenting
it. Just ferment their food for 1-3 days as per that section of the instructions. For
chickens, Id wait until they are at least a week old before starting fermenting
their food. Then the same with the pigs, just follow that section of the
instructions. Hope this info helps. Sounds like youre enjoying this stuff and
making good use of it! Thats great!
Patrick
Nik Amin
Hope both of you are well and fine
Can LAB be use as a simple and cheap way of doing a treatment for grease trap boxes
and septic tanks?.
Is it possible that the microorganisms in LAB are capable of accelerating the process of
decomposition of grease and oils whereby it will effectively cleans the grease traps, the
tubes and basins avoiding the periodical cleaning of the same?
Tq for sharing your vast experience and knowledge
Patrick
Hi Nik,
Lacto works amazingly well in septic tanks. Dramatic effect on buildup of waste
there. In grease traps Im not as confident. Its a different type of compound.. Try
it and see! I think LAB would be effective, but not as much as it is for biological
wastes. Try it in stronger concentration. Let us know how it goes!
Patrick
Nik Amin
Dear Patrick,
That is awesome, Im very hopeful readers and you can share how to use
LAB so that it works amazingly well in septic tanks?
Can you please describe what dramatic effect it has on the build up of
waste.
Im testing LAB with food fats right now, after 3 days I can see the fats
clearly compared to the one not mix with LAB, I cant tell whether LAB is
eating the fats or rounding them up first before devouring them
Tq P & G
Happy New Year
Patrick
Hey Nik sorry for the late reply its been a little crazy around here.
Thats great you are testing out LAB on the fats! Let me know how
it goes.. My thought was that it might be eating everything except
the fat but let me know if it gets that too.
For the septic, just add lacto to the tank like you did for the grease
trap. The septic tank should be anaerobic so its the perfect
environment for LAB. In terms of results, I think the biggest
advantage is never having to clean the septic tank again! Thats
how well LAB consume the waste. I know several cases of that,
where people went from having to get the tank cleaned every 6
months, to never having to clean it. Depending on the size of the
tank, just pore the LAB down the drain so it makes it into the tank
at home we just flush it down the toilet. Use more or less diluted
LAB depending on your need. You can also mix some sugar into
the solution before you flush it down, help the LAB population get
started.
Let us know how it goes!!
Patrick
elsiehoreb
Hi Patrick
Can I use coco peat to replace wheat bran? It is quite cheap. I can get it at less than USD
3 per big block.
Intend to slowly break loose the block and work with a manageable amount. Then
inoculate with the LAB 1:20 + molasses (do I need to further dilute the 1:20 ?). Ferment
airtight for 14 days, then sun dry it etc etc.
Will the coco peat work as a substitute for wheat bran ? If this works, I will be very
excited.
Looking forward to your reply, Thanks
Elsie
o
Patrick
Hey Elsie,
Sorry for the late reply, yep coco peat will work fine! As long as it isnt too salty
still. Coco peat comes in many grades of salinity. I think they would all work
actually but the saltier ones probably not as well. Anyway, yep inoculate with
LAB and molasses, ferment for 14 days but dont sun dry! You can dry outside
just find a shady spot. Or just seal it up moist and store that way, thats fine
especially if youll use it soon.
LUVIN
December 31, 2013 at 7:16 pm - Reply...
i love this site.. my question is can i use rice milk instead of cows milk or the powdered
milk? since rice milk is cheaper and abundant here in the philippines. i plant rice, cacao,
bananas, mangoes, and lots of herbs., i also have chickens and a female goat (havent got
the chance to have a male goat yet). planning to raise pigs soon. i intend to use LAB in all
my plant stuff. thanks and more power. God bless you..
o
Patrick
Hey Luvin,
You should use LAB for your animals too! ferment their feed before you give to
them. Also for your compost piles, bad smells, spraying down the animal bedding,
there are really a ton of uses for this for animals as well as plants.
As far as your question goes, sorry I think you will have to use normal milk. The
idea is that the lactose in milk ensures the LAB are the ones that thrive. Im not
sure rice milk has the lactose content that you need.
LUVIN
i have a little confusion with rice bran, is it the local darak we used as
feeds to pigs? if so, can i use it as a replacement to wheat bran? thanks
again..
Patrick
Hi Luvin,
Yes, the darak you use locally is rice bran, and its a perfect
substitute for wheat bran. Its great to use for making bokashi as
well.
Cheers,
Patrick
luvin
April 20, 2014 at 10:46 am -
thanks for the clarification.. i enjoyed farming and making

fertilizers and composts, etc.. im also a public school
teacher (high school) and i have a herbal garden in school.
ill teach my students to make these fertilizers and apply
these to our garden.. im so excited
Franck
Dear Gil and Patrick,
First thanks for your good work!
I was wondering whether its a good idea or not to add a little bit of worm castings and/or
forest soil harvested from the wild to the rice wash? Do worm castings and forest humus
contain beneficial lactobacilli? I know that worm castings contain aerobic beneficial
microorganisms but Im not sure whether the beneficial facultative anaerobes potentially
present in the worm casting can be or not propagated by this mean?
Thanks for your time!
o
Patrick
Hi Franck,
There isnt really a need for that step since we really want LAB and those are
pretty ubiquitous without needing to add anything. Also, the abundance of
microbes in those mediums means more competition with LAB and a higher
chance of the serum going bad. But if you want to add just a little bit of those
things, doesnt hurt. The extra microbes should go dormant as LAB take over.
Just dont add to much of them.. Hope this helps..
Cheers,
Patrick
nosid naalra
good day patrick
may i know if bee honey is a good substitute for sugar/molasses.
thanks
o
Patrick
Yep that works ok. Not as good a sugar source because it doesnt have as many
vitamins/minerals, but it works as a sugar source.
nosid naalra
Hi patrick.
Thank you so much. Ill try the bee honey.
More power.
prachi
Hi Patrick,
Patrick I am from India and in India we make a home made milk based yogurt at home
which is Dahi/ curd, and we churn it to get buttermilk or whey from it. It is a known
fact in India that Dahi is a v rich source of lactobaccilus bacteria. we eat this curd /
buttermilk almost once a day and is considered v good for digestive health.
the wa we make it, boil and bring back milk to lukewarm temp and introduce the dahi
culture it sets in 6-8 hours.
I am wondering can this be not used directly. In indian agriculture..there is also a mention
of using buttermilk+ neem oil as pesticide esp for leaf curl. would you have any ideas on
this??
o
Patrick
Hi Prachi,
Very interesting that does sound like a good method to get LAB. Im not
familiar with it but Ill have to read about it, sounds interesting.
I think you could definitely use it in agriculture to speed up compost, eliminate
smells, aid digestion of animals, basically the same way we use lacto.
I imagine the buttermilk+neem would be effective because of the better coating

achieved using the buttermilk, but I havent tried something like this yet.
Ive read before though many places advising using milk as a mix for pesticides.
Just straight up milk. I think buttermilk would be much better though more fat
for better coating.
What is the dahi culture? I mean how is it made initially? Anyway time to do
some reading. Thanks Prachi!
Patrick
Gian
Hi Patrick,
I started to do my first LABrice wash is on my 5th day today and I notice white and
green molds on top of the water. I read before that in fermentation green molds are bad
bacteria. Could I still use the middle part? I intend to do the next step this Sunday since I
have already ordered my raw cows milk.
Thanks
o
Patrick
Hi Gian,
We really advise to avoid green, yellow, or black molds. Many of those species
tend to be pathogenic whereas white are normally healthy. If you are using this
for the garden, bokashi bin, sink drain, fine just use it carefully (wouldnt use as
foliar spray in case you inhale it). But I wouldnt use it as a digestive aid (drink it
yourself). Hope it works out for you in any case!
Thanks,
Patrick
Gian
I guess I have to throw rice wash that accumulated different color mold
aside from white. I use LAB for foliar spray in our orchard.
Thanks Patrick
Gian
Hi Patrick,
I harvested already my LAB and kept it with molasses ratio. Did that last
saturday, when I looked at it todaythere are white spots on toplooks
like molds
Patrick
Hmm how much air is there in the vessel? Maybe too much air in
there which allowed molds to grow. White molds are actually
good, but they shouldnt grow in there due to the anaerobic
conditions, acidity and chemical byproducts of the LAB activities.
In any case I would stick with the non-consumption applications
for this batch.
Gian
February 7, 2014 at 9:51 pm I placed it on a 6 liter capacity water plastic container; 3/4
full but have this contraptions thing hose that releases air
inside a water glass. cap on. To prevent it from deforming
the plastic container. Now, the white molds stopped but big
bubbles are present
Patrick
February 23, 2014 at 9:07 pm Haha wow its going crazy. Thats fine though, bubbles are
ok just watch for black/green/yellow molds. Sounds like
you have a good anaerobic system so it should work out ok.
nosid naalra
hi patrick!
good day!
Im done with my first batch of LAB using rice wash, unpasturized fresh cows milk &
molasses & all steps were followed until the last step (mixing 1 part concoction to 20
parts unchlorinated water). When I tasted, it did not taste soury at all, unlike the taste of
LCTO PAFI that taste soury.(1st question) I wonder if my LAB is a good one, but Ive
already tested it. It works good in eliminating bad odors.(2nd question) Why is it that
LACTO PAFI is soury. (3rd question) how make LAB using SOY BEANS.
thanks.
o
Patrick
Hi Nosid,
1. Sour taste is due to acidity. Higher acidity means more sour taste. You get
acidity by having those microbes that produce acid+alcohol as byproducts, or pure
acid. You can also get higher acidity by leaving it to ferment longer. Normally
you will get the right bacteria using this recipe, so you might try leaving it longer
to ferment.
2. As long as your LAB doesnt smell foul. It might smell a little like wine,
vinegar, sour, or little sweet.
3. Im not sure how to make LAB using soy beans. Lactobacillus bacteria
dominate in this recipe because of the lactose in milk. Im not sure a reliable way
to get LAB without the lactose. Ill look into it.
Cheers,
Patrick
nosid naalra
good day patrick!
is it right to use the whey from the 2nd fermentation (1 part rice wash whey + 10 parts
milk) as replacement for the rice wash whey?
i want to skip the 1st fermentation to make my 2nd batch LAB
thanks
Patrick
I think you can do that. Ive done it before successfully. Probably get a lower
percentage of other bacteria and more LAB this way. Try and let me know how it
goes!
Dan
Would you advise giving this to 1-5 year old children?
o
Patrick
Hey Dan,
Honestly, I cant advise anyone drink anything without knowing their medical
history and all that. I can say that I drink it no problem, and I know kids drink it
no problem. I would follow the directions of other probiotic products like yakult,
in that regard. Sorry this is a lame response but you know, safety first. Make sure
the batch is good! should smell sour/vinegar/wine maybe a hint of cheese. I think
it would be a great addition to a kids diet, help fight those bad microbes that
come in via fingers, non-food like dirt, etc haha but thats just me, I would
introduce it slowly and go from there..
Patrick
nosid naalra
ill try skipping the 1st fermentation & try to ferment it longer. ill let you know later.
thank you so much patrick.
jb
Hi and thanks for the awesome site!
My first batch I kept a t-shirt over the top instead of completely anaerobic. The milk
seperated into levels and such, but the lacto did have a super strong cheesey/alcohol smell
to it which was probably it going bad because it only lasted a couple months refrigerated
before definitely being foul.
My latest batch I used UHT long-life milk (cheap) and went outta the way to keep it
covered and anaerobic. It didnt seem to really seperate like before where the curds
floated. it was more like all the liquid slowly turning to cheese. the resulting cheese also
had pink spots and a small mould film in places on top chucked it regretfully since id be
drinking it. Was it the milk that caused bad seperating or maybe a rice wash that wasnt
populated enough due to cold weather here?Thanks!
o
Patrick
Actually your first batch sounds fine, it should smell a little like
cheese/alcohol/vinegar/sour. If you think its going sour, add more molasses.
Hmm good questions regarding the UHT milk. I kinda avoid that stuff since its
so processed the more natural the better in my view although theoretically it
should work just fine. How long did you leave it to ferment? the mold infection
means it didnt ferment quite correctly in terms of organisms present and their
products (lactic acid), so maybe it was the rice wash. maybe leave the rice wash
under a lamp to keep it warm for a few days and try again..
Wanna be farmer
I used organic pasteurized milk. The whole batch seemed to work but after a week it was
all curds and no whey/LAB. What caused overproduction of curd? Homogenization?
Contamination? Thanks for help if anyone has ran into this problem. Im well versed in
fermenting veggies but havent done dairy ferments much.
o
Patrick
Wow, all curd, thats wild. Not sure the issue, too much fat in your milk? try
using cheese cloth to squeeze the LAB outta there. Anyone have suggestions?
luvin
April 25, 2014 at 6:49 am - Reply...
just a guess maybe all the liquids evaporated and only the curds are left.
was the container left under the sun? the preparation should be placed in a
cool shaded place.. i dont know if this analysis is right, kindly correct me
if im wrong..
prachi
hey Patrick,
Thank you for responding to me earlier. Dahi culture.. is a specific kind of culture which
is introduced into milk; its a local knowledge this culture is v rich in lactobacillus.its v
easily available in india.
I always wanted to share a v interesting recipe this is one of the v old age recipe in
India actually from the old scriptures directly. I am brewing it..just started a batch. i used
some which i bought from the market it helped my plants a lot so wanted to do a DIY.
this one uses, curd as well as milk.
Recipe- panchagavya:
1. In Sanskrit, Panchagavya means the blend of five products obtained from cow. (All
these five products are individually called Gavya and collectively termed as
Panchagavya) It contains ghee, milk, curd, cow dung and cows urine. Panchagavya had
reverence in the scripts of Vedas (devine scripts of Indian wisdom) and Vrkshyurveda
(Vrksha means plants and ayurveda means health system). The texts on Vrkshayurveda
are systematizations of the practices the farmers followed at field level, placed in a
theoretical framework and it defined certain plant growth stimulants; among them
Panchagavya was an important one that enhanced the biological efficiency of crop plants
and the quality of fruits and vegetables (Natarajan, 2002).
For making approx. 20 litres of panchagavya you need the following:
* Fresh cow dung 5kg
* Fresh cows urine 3 litres
* Cows milk 2 litres
* Cows curd 2 litres
* Cows ghee 500 gms
* Jaggery 500 gms/ molasses
* Water or sugarcane juice 3 litres
* Ripe banana fruit 1 bunch (12 nos.)
* Tender coconut water 3 litres
* toddy 2 litres
(If toddy is not available, you can ferment 3 litres of tender coconut water by keeping it
in a pot for 1 week. That will become toddy. )
Method of preparation:
* Take 5 kgs of fresh cow dung and mix it thoroughly with 500 gms of cows ghee and
keep it in a plastic drum or a mud pot. It should not be kept in a metal container because
it will corrode and react with the metal. Keep the ghee and the cow dung mixture for 4
days, mixing it twice a day.
* On the 5th day add cows urine, cows milk (cows milk can be boiled, cooled and then
added) and cows curd, then jaggery with water or sugarcane juice and banana fruit
(which has to be mashed and mixed thoroughly.) Then tender coconut water has to be
added.
* Wait for another 15 days, stirring twice daily. Stirring the contents for about 20 minutes
each time facilitates aerobic microbial activity.
* On the 19th day the panchagavya solution will be ready. This solution must be kept
under a net, i.e. it must be covered with a muslin or fine cloth so that the common fly
cannot sit on it and lay eggs. For use after 19th day, stir the mixture at least once a day to
aerate it.
Application
200ml of this solution can be diluted with 10 litres of water with proper stirring for
spraying on plants. For soil application, dilute 1000ml in 10litres of water.
Periodicity of use
Once in 15 days, it can be used for all crops. In winter crops, 1.5-2% usage is sufficient
but for all other crops 3% should be used.
pls google it..very eager to know your thoughts o this one!
cheers!
prachi
o
Patrick
Wow, very interesting Prachi! Thats a cool recipe. I like it for the fact it utilizes
farmyard inputs to create a really nice fertilizer. Looks like cow dung, urine, milk,
curd for nitrogen jaggery, sugarcane, toddy for nutrients and sugar and
bananas for potassium and more sugar what a cool recipe! I can think of some
interesting ways to tweak it, like adding a bubbler for more oxygen or in the other
direction sealing it to keep it anaerobic (although that would be tough since it has
the dung which is so biologically active, Id think it could easily go bad)
Ill have to google it and dig in a bit more, I like those old proven DIY recipes..
We will have to open an area of the site for this and other recipes to be shared. I
am working on this, so Ill keep in mind your recipe when it opens.
Thanks for sharing Prachi! That is awesome!

Patrick
Tim
Can I put horse manure and ferment it a bokashi system
o
Patrick
Well, yes you can but you have to be careful with manure because it is very
biologically active and not always (frequently not) the good bacteria. I would
limit the amount of manure you include, use a lot of sugar and a healthy dose of
lactobacillus. Maybe brew an activated lacto mixture for this application, to
maximize the LAB population beforehand.
Tim
Patrick,
I was looking on the back of a box of Rid-S (septic tank helper stuff) and
as far as I can tell, it is the same as Bokashi Bran. I was wondering if that
could be used if someone just wanted to try Bokashi composting and
wasnt patient enough to make their own?
Tim
Scott
Hi Patrick,
So its in the middle of winter here in the great PNW and I started my carbohydrate wash
a week ago and smelled it for the first time today and was quite surprised. It smells of
Phenol, which is new to me as I remember a more sour aroma in the past. I am wondering
if being winter might have something to do with it. Either its in too cold an environment,
or the winter spores in the air have less lacto in it. It probably averages anywhere from
50F to 60F in my house where its left to ferment.
Any thoughts? Nice FLOG by the way!

-Scott
o
Patrick
Heeeyyy greetings to the GREAT PNW man I miss that place.
Good questionits kinda tough to make this stuff in winter back there in PNW..
I did before on a christmas trip home and it worked ok actually but I left the
ferments by the fire where they were kept quite warm for at least part of the day.
Id recommend you keep the rice wash warm put it near the heater, or use an
aquarium heater to keep it warm. That should help.
As far as using the rice wash you made you can try using that with milk and see
if it works. Keep the milk warm during fermentation if you can and see if that
helps. Any other questions let me know.
Cheers,
Patrick
silcax
hi sir.. tried culturing these.. but after adding milk to the middle layer and waiting couple
of days , it develops white worms on it.. is it normal?what shoud be done to eliminate it?
Scott
got to thinking and since the rice wash may of went bad, why not just inoculate my
milk with a Tbls or two of live culture yogurt that I have in my fridge? Dont you think
this would work fine? If not, why?
Thanks,
Scott
o
Patrick
Hey Scott,
We really just use the rice wash to get a wider variety of microbes. You can use
the yogurt no problem and that should work, youll just get a little more variety
through the rice technique.
Cheers,
Patrick
silcax
hi sir.. tried culturing these.. but after adding milk to the middle layer and waiting couple
of days , it develops white worms on it.. is it normal?what shoud be done to eliminate it?
update
i harvested it now , seems that worms are getting many as day passes by..im planning to
just use this as sprayer and not use this orally. is that okay?talking about those white
worms, does it have bad effects on the lacto bacillus already present on the solution?
because its my first time making this i found that the odor has small touch of vinegar.you
agree or im wrong with my assesment? thanks sir
o
Patrick
Hey Silcax,
that all sounds great. The vinegar type smell is perfectly normal and a sign of
successful fermentation. The worms are most likely fly larvae that got in there
from flies laying eggs around it. No worries, they wont spoil the solution. You
can use it around the house and garden no problem, it should be great!
If you dont want the worms in it, next time cover very tightly with a very fine
mesh screen. That will keep the flies out and you shouldnt have larvae in there.
silcax
tnx that was helpul
Tim

sorry that was Rid-X
o
Patrick
Hey Tim!
Ha, I just posted an article on bokashi here actually. Well you can try it! try using
it as bokashi bran and let me know how it goes. Although I think its more fun to
make your own haha.
silcax
can i still use my cultured lacto bacillus even there are white worms that suddenly
sprouted of of nowhere/// .. i already harvested it but on standby and waiting for your
advise..worms developed after adding milk to the 3 day old rice wash .thanks in advance
o
Patrick
hmm sounds like you got some flies in there. The worms are fine, no worries. I
dont know if I would drink it myself but for sure its fine in all the other
applications.
dexter tamayo
im on the final stage of making lactobacillus serum where 1 part of lactobacillus infection
(strained rice wash )and 10 parts of milk are mixed, after a week of fermentation i notice
that there are tiny white worms moving on top of it , i just want to ask if am i still on the
right track or do i need to make a new one
o
silcax
same concern with yours..hope someone will answer.thanks
Patrick

Hey guys,
That is fine, tiny white molds are fine. I would caution you if you see any
other colors, especially yellow, green or black. Also I would drain off the
fluid now and store in a sealed container with sugar (the next step).
Anyway keep the fermentation as anaerobic as possible that will help
ensure a good population of white molds.
sorry for the late reply hope you guys didnt throw it out, it should be fine.
Cheers,
Patrick
Alja
Did you, Patrick or Gil, ever did this?
I took pure LB serum, added equal part of molasses and 20 parts of water.
This is now waiting on 90+ F degrees, sealed, to ferment until bubbling stops.
Intention is to to culture and multiply LB as much possible.
What do you think?
o
Patrick
Oh yeah! Ive done that a lot, actually Im working on a continuous brewing
method where you just keep adding sugarwater as you drain it off.
We call that the activated BIM or activated Lacto recipe. It is an awesome
way to mulitply the microbes before use, makes a powerful microbial inoculant
when youre done! Just make sure you dilute it appropriately so you dont shock
the system youre applying it to.
shawn
Hai patrick i ve made on third day i found my serum look clear white instead of light
yellow as per info.ami in correct path?
o
Patrick

Hi Shawn, that should be fine. Is there curd starting to collect at the top?
shawn
Yes i already strain it at day 5 then mixed it up wit brown sugar.than do i
need to wait another week for brown sugar and serum stabilised so dat i cn
use it?
Patrick
You dont have to wait the week for it to stabilize, but it will
stabilize over time, yes.
Gaston
Hello Patrick and Gil
Me again! Got another question (or two or three) I am afraid
Bokashi buckets are doing well it seems and I got worm bin(s) going in my living room
as well as another bin with worm castings I harvested early ( still high in the peat I use
for worm bedding). I inoculated the castings- peat with bokashi bran I purchased ( made
with E-M 1 since I did not have serum or BIM and, well, its winter here). The hope is
that by feeding sugar periodically as well as fish hydrolysate ( for fungal) I can use it as
an inoculant for my potted plants in the spring.
Thanks for your patience and Ive written all of that for a reason soon to be revealed
See, I have started a batch of serum as the first one I did in December with chlorinated
water in the wash did not work. This one looks great so far. I love looking around on the
web and found something that interested me : I learned what you already knew, that this
that is that there is many, many species of lactobacillus, divided in categories and I am
assuming gils method attracts more than one kind. As I am sure you have figured out my
upcoming questions by now lets just get to the Point!!! They are all good for our purpose
are they? I have read one of your post something to the effect the workhorse in E-M is
Lacto so there is probably some of those in my serum right? Further and thats the main
question: I read they are everywhere, like in manures and bread even in some cases.
Would it be worthwhile to get rice wash infected in many locations over time and MIX
THEM as to have the most TYPES together as possible. Would that be beneficial to
attempt or are there just a bunch of them in the air all around us, enough anyhow??
Sorry for the length of the post and once again thanks so very much to both of you for
doing this. Its so much fun and ive learned so much from the two of you so far.
Gaston
o
Patrick
Hey Gaston no trouble at all thats why the site is up. Yep, lacto species are
literally everywhere including the air, they are just ubiquitous in the environment.
So to address your question, yes and yes. Yes, you can use the rice wash in one
place and collect all the microbes you need to make a good lactobacillus serum.
And also, yes Im sure varying the locations of your wash and then mixing them
together will result in a more diverse lacto culture. Especially natural
environments, different natural habitats like we do to collect BIM microbes. Note
here, you are collecting more than just lacto microbes from the air and
environment, thats why we use the wash instead of just inoculating with a lacto
culture to start with. Its just that by then inundating with milk (lactose source),
you are ensuring the dominance of the lacto species. There are others in there, but
they will be either destroyed by the lacto or will go dormant until environmental
conditions permit them to be active again. While some lacto species arent really
good for our purposes, adding the milk really gives the competitive advantage to
the useful ones.
EM-1 is an awesome inoculant and if you havent made BIM or lacto serum, it is
a great option although a little pricey compared to the cost of the homemade
extracts, hah. You saw correctly before, the real workhorse in the EM1 or BIM is
the lacto bacteria you can achieve the fermenting results you want using just the
lacto serum no problem.
Hope this helps. Keep on fermenting.
Patrick
darryl
i have a few questionswhen letting the rice wash sit do i use a bottle with a one way
valve?
(i purchased a few for this purpose) becaused i keep seeing it said that that process is a
fermentation process or does the rice wash need to be exposed to air? so that the
microbes can get in?
also unpasturized milk is illegal in canadaodd i know but it isthe only thing i can
find that seems close is a 1% mf pasturized natural milk by a company called nutrel, i
have no idea what the natural means? but it cost alot more can i use pasturized milk as it
will still have lactose in it? but they have cooked out microbes =(
o
Patrick
March 3, 2014 at 7:35 am - Reply...
Hi Darryl,
Yep, leave the rice wash to sit out, it will get infected with microbes. Dont cover
it at this stage (its only for a short time, until it sours). Any lactose source is fine,
so any milk will do actually. The more natural the better, but any of them will
work. I just made a batch with super-treated UHT milk because its all I had
access to at the time. No problem.
darryl
March 3, 2014 at 6:16 pm - Reply...
wow, thank you patrickim excited now that my milk is going to work
=). ok so since you are awsome and super responsive(im loving this) im
going to explain my set-up and hopefully you can explain if i am doing
anything wrong and what tweeks to make to the set-up. so.i have to rice
wash in a mason jar with a coffee filter placed over the jar before the ring.
the ring is tightened down all the way because air can permeate the coffee
filter. I then placed the disc of the mason jar lid loosely ontop. the whole
deal is wrapped in a black towel for darkness, and placed ontop of a
seedling heat-mat with thermostat set to 87 Fahrenheit
should i be putting it in complete darkness? or does it need light? or does
it not matter?
should i leave out the coffee filter or the disc in the lid set-up? or change it
some other way?
its winter and minus 20 Celsius here in Canada so, im pretty sure i need to
heat it my apartment is freezing. What temperature would be ideal?
.sorry for all the questions im just a bit of a perfectionisti literally
bought all the stuff for just thisalso 4x 1 gallon wine fermenting bottles
with the water airlock rubber stopper lids =) for the final ferment and for
making FPE and all the other goodies on your website =)
Patrick
March 3, 2014 at 10:37 pm - Reply...
Hey Darryl,
Ha, glad you are enjoying the site and our recipes! Ok to answer
your questions:
1. When I leave the rice wash out, I usually just cover it with a
mesh screen that stops the bigger bugs. I like to give it as much
chance to get infected with microbes as possible. You only leave it
out a few days to sour anyway, so its not a problem to leave it
pretty well exposed. The heat mat will be great for encouraging
microbial growth, good move there. As far as darkness, I just say
no direct sunlight but besides that ok. So any shady place should
be fine.
2. Ideal temperature would be around body temp actually, around
37 degrees Celsius. Pretty far from minus 20, where are you,
Calgary? Haha I guess a ton of cities there are around that temp. I
miss Vancouver, I gradded from UBC so I spent some good years
in that city before moving out to the Philippines. Anyway ideally
pretty warm like I mentioned, but if your seed mat can only do 87
F then that should be fine also no worries. Anything above about
60 F will be very productive for microbial growth.
Wow that is pretty neat you got all the good gear for our stuff! I
dont even have that good of gear, its hard to find that stuff here in
the Philippines! Youre gonna love some of the material I have
lined up expanding on whats there already. Ok I think that about
covers it, any other questions let me know.
Cheers,
Patrick
darryl
March 4, 2014 at 7:29 am hey patrick, thank you so much brother that was perfect,
you answered all my questions perfectly. I actually live in
Oshawa, Ontario atm.i did live in calgary for awhile and
airdrie just north of calgary and also Fort Mcmurray alberta
just south of the yukon i used to work in the
oilsandscouoldnt take how evil it was up therei never
made it to vancouver i really wish i had but i was always to
busy for road trips. thats interesting youre from
vancouver! were you born here? or in the phillippines? and
if born here and moved there and dont mind me asking,
what was your reason for moving there? i have always
wanted to move to somewhere like thatmy uncle lives in
thailand its beautiful. as a matter of fact i was reading about

the live in apprenticeship programs offered threw your guys
farm and that looks like an awsome place to start.
im definately excited for anything you add to this sitei
have read the whole thing i think nowbtw sorry for
asking you about the uht milk before reading all the
questions and answersi could have found my answer if i
had just done more work instead of making you do the
extra work to explain it a 5th time =) my bad =)
Patrick
March 4, 2014 at 8:14 pm Haha no worries, I really need to set up a FAQ since there
are some questions that are pretty common. Cant expect
people to read through 200+ comments. Well the forum is
for that, its coming soon.
So I was actually born and raised in Oregon on a 40 acre
hobby farm, that is the way to grow up man Then went
to uni at UBC, actually dated a girl from fort mcmurray for
awhile there, I visited the city also I know what you
mean, lots of money and nothing to do is trouble. I actually
came to the Phils to visit a friend who was working
here.and never left! That was 6yrs ago now so I guess
Im settled in for a bit haha.
Hey you should look into the apprenticeship program if
youre looking for an interesting experience. Actually the
apprenticeship program is closed but replaced right now
with the farmstay program. Limited formal classroom work
but tons of experience on the farm (which I think makes
more sense anyway). Lots of work with Gil and executing
projects around his farm. Its extremely cheap and your
room and board is free, so its a neat cheap way to learn
about natural farming and execute!
Alja
We call that the activated BIM or activated Lacto recipe. It is an awesome way to
mulitply the microbes before use, makes a powerful microbial inoculant when youre
done! Just make sure you dilute it appropriately so you dont shock the system youre
applying it to.
Already asked in BIM recipe, here again what would this appropriately dulition rates
be?
Gaston
Hello Patrick
Got another question if you dont mind. My lacto batch seems to have worked great.
Only three days on a seed mat for warmth and when I checked the curd on top was like
an inch thick or even more, the liquid was light yellow so i harvested. If you keep it
longer does it get yellower, hence stronger? Also, I elected to keep it in the fridge rather
than use sugar. When I use it should I still used it 20:1 Ga or more since there is no
sugar?
Thanks in advance.
Gaston
o
Patrick
Typically we mix 1:1 with sugar, so I would dilute it 1:40 with water when you
use. But you cant use too much, if it were me Id probably stick with 1:20
anyway ..
Gaston
March 3, 2014 at 10:48 am - Reply...
thanks Patrick!!!
Becky Keith
March 4, 2014 at 12:33 pm - Reply...
Hey,
I am just getting started creating an aquaponics system . I have read a bunch of you post
and cant wait to mix a batch. However my question is about another possible use for the
lactobacillus. I was on another site regarding making yogurt from scratch without using a
yogurt culture. Can this be added to raw whole milk to make a starter yogurt culture?
o
Patrick
Not sure I follow your question, you mean use the yogurt instead of the rice
wash? You can do that no problem. We use the rice wash so that we capture
natural microbes from the area, and get a higher diversity not just laco spp. But
you can use a bit of yogurt to get the fermentation started.
Becky Keith
March 19, 2014 at 5:18 am - Reply...
A young woman was asking how to make yogurt from scratch. All the
recipes start with having to buy yogurt at the store for a starter to make
yogurt. She said then what happens in a SHTF event when there are no
more stores to buy yogurt. I know you are making lactobacillus for a
different use. My question was can you use your mixture to start yogurt
and cheese? As a starter? It seems like it would work to me. Wouldnt it
be the same as a yogurt starter?
Patrick
March 23, 2014 at 9:58 pm - Reply...
Yep, for sure you can use lacto as a starter culture. It would work
great! I think some types of cheese rely on specific lacto species so
youd want to use the proper starter for those, but in general lacto
would be an excellent starter.
Adam
Hi guys,
Im having problems with storing my Lacto/molasses solution. At room temp thye bottles
swell up and pressure builds in the bottle. I havent had a bottle burst yet as i keep
opening the cap to let out some of the pressure. Have i not added sufficient molasses to
stabilize it? Should i add more molasses? Isnt the molasses suppose to stabilize of
neutralize (for lack of a better word) the Lacto? Have I added the Lacto to the molasses to
early and it hasnt finished separating the curds and whey?
Any suggestions for a remedy would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Adam
o
Patrick
Thats ok, it is just stabilizing, the microbes are still working, until they reach an
equilibrium. Just keep cracking it to release the CO2 buildup and it will slow
down and stop eventually. Try to store it in a bottle with limited space at the top,
you dont want to store it half full in a bottle ideally.
darryl
so i filled my bottles to the top with the milk and rice wash water and once it started to
ferment it expanded (tons of bubbles inside get trapped in the thick curd/whey/milk
water) when it expanded it went all the way threw my airlock lid and onto my carpet. i
mean alot!!!! my carpet is being ripped up tomorrow.PATRICK plz add something to
the begining explaining this fact so no one else ruins a grand worth of carpet trying to
make this.that should be in the instructions
o
darryl
kinda over reacted sorry for goin all capitals on ya hahaha =) anyhow not a grand
to replace just 150 to be cleaned by a proplz do add that to the instructions tho i
think it will help ppl cuz that sucked smelled really bad and i had to sleep on the
couch after that one
Patrick
Darryl apologies dude that sucks! My bad, I will amend the recipe now.
Ouch, the couch, just surprised there no curses in that first post..
darryl
all good brotheri definately wouldnt just start cursing at you cuz
of that, that wouldnbt be very canadian of me haha =) anyhow my
lacto serum is done only took 4 days on my heat mat at 35 C
doesnt really look yellow tho looks kinda how the rice wash
water looked originallyexcited to get started using iti came up
with a way to store the serum right to the top of the bottle even as
it is being used from the bottle. just simply add small sterilized
glass marbles into the bottle as it is used up to displace the lacto
serum so it is always filled to the top =)
Patrick
March 10, 2014 at 9:37 pm ha, thats why were planning to settle in Canada people
are a little more relaxed
No worries about the color of the serum, it can be white
instead of yellow, I think it depends on the milk youre
using. That is an awesome method of keeping the level in
the jar up!! haha simple and effective, I love it.
Chelsa
March 26, 2014 at 5:01 am Thanks for that tidbit Darryl! The marbles is a brilliant
idea. Ive been wondering what I should do about the
airspace that is created when I use the LB. I was thinking
Id have to constantly switch out the containers to smaller
and smaller jars. Your idea is perfectly brilliant! You and
Gaston ask all the questions I wonder about.
Patrick
March 26, 2014 at 6:45 am Ha, awesome.
Anne
I have a poultry farm i would like to know if its okay for me to spray the lacto on the
chicken manure to the reduce odor? If yes what is your recommended dilution? I already
have the lacto with me im just not sure if its safe for me to spray it straight to the manure.
Thank you very much!
o
Patrick
March 10, 2014 at 9:45 pm - Reply...
Hi Anne,
It is ideal for manure! And incredibly effective in reducing those types of odors
(ammonia). Spray away. You can spray everywhere on the manure, on the
chickens, on yourself, anywhere.. doesnt matter. These microbes are everywhere

anyway, this is just a concentrated form. You can dilute 1tbsp/L. Then get
progressively more dilute over time, down to 1tbsp/gal and less.
You will be startled with how effective this treatment is. I cant wait for you to try
it. With things like pigs and pig pens, its miraculous. To not smell a piggery 10 ft
away from you thats pretty cool.
Anne
March 11, 2014 at 9:47 am - Reply...
Thank you very much patrick!! Cant wait to try it tomorrow!
Anne
March 12, 2014 at 8:02 am - Reply...
Im sorry patrick. One last query. How long will the diluted form
last? Thanks!
Patrick
March 12, 2014 at 9:02 am No worries Anne, the diluted form, I keep in the fridge and
it keeps pretty well that way. But as you use a lot of it and
more airspace exists in the container it gets less effective. I
use it for anywhere from a couple weeks to a month or so.
Kept in the fridge its pretty stable.
darryl
is there a certain reason for mixing the serum 1 to 20 with water?and then using 1-2
tablespoons per liter of that? could i just keep the serum as is and use 1/8 1/4 of a
teaspoon of the pure stuff per liter? or is there a reason for the 1 to 20 mixture?
o
Gaston
March 9, 2014 at 10:43 pm - Reply...
hahaha. great question I was wondering the same.
Patrick
March 10, 2014 at 9:34 pm - Reply...

Well when you dilute the first time, with 20 parts water, you are kinda activating
the lacto. With more dilution they are liberated from the osmotic pressure of the
sugar and can multiply once again, thats how I was taught anyway. You dont
need to do this step, you can do it how youre describing no problem. I think you
will get more life from the bottle and more effect doing the dilutions though.
Now, the second dilution, the last one, I dont always follow. For example taking
it internally just just pour a little lacto in the glass and drink it. Mix it with half a
glass of water for my wife, who is absolutely repulsed by the taste but loves
shrimp bagoong, go figure .
darryl
March 11, 2014 at 8:19 am - Reply...
makes sencebut what about the pure lacto serum kept in the fridge with
no sugar added? cuz that how i did it. if you dilute 20 to 1 the serum from
the fridge wouldnt have any sugars in the diluted solution for them to feed
on and multiply. so should i be making the diluted mixture from the fridge
serum and adding sugar to do it propperly and get the desired results? or
should i just be making the sugar/lacto mixture because in the end that
makes the best diluted mixture?
Patrick
March 11, 2014 at 8:45 am - Reply...
ahh, ya if you dont add 1:1 sugar with the pure lacto, Im not sure
how much benefit youll get diluting it in the first 1:20 dilution. So
you might as well use the pure lacto in that case just much lower
application rates since youre skipping the 1:20 dilution.
I think the 1:1 with sugar and then 1:20 initial dilution is best but
your method works fine. No rules here..
darryl
March 12, 2014 at 6:35 am patrick, your awesome, i really appreciate all your
helpthis site with you running it has been the best find
ever. =) i am having so much fun with this..
Patrick
March 12, 2014 at 9:03 am No worries! I love this stuff Im happy to share what Ive
learned and get other people having fun with it. Glad to see
you sticking with it through thick and thin
Gaston
March 15, 2014 at 12:09 am Yeah Darryl, I have been experimenting with it and do the
1:20 (100ml in a 2l empty plastic ctn), without sugar and
keeping it in the fridge and then I use that to mix in a spray
bottle but I use more, like four -six table spoons per per
litre, still without the sugar and I am getting great results.
Its serious smells be gone, I have stuff composting
aerobically in my garage that was a little rich Pfffff
smells, what smells? (using de-chlorinated water of
course). Following your post I am thinking of
benchmarking with adding a little sugar in the initial 1:20
dilution, leave it out of the fridge and see. I have a hunch
Id be able to stretch it longer since I would probably allow
it to multiply on its own and hence use less but up where I
live milk is cheaper than sugar so.
I second, its the best site ever and its so nice to be able to
talk about the recipes
Derek
March 12, 2014 at 5:56 pm - Reply...
My lab turned slightly pink, is this bad?
o
Patrick
March 17, 2014 at 9:11 pm - Reply...
Ive heard of that happening to people but it hasnt happened to me personally so
I have a hard time answering that. I would just use it around the house and garden
but not take it internally. I think its fine but better to be safe in any case..
Sarah
March 12, 2014 at 10:23 pm - Reply...
Im curious if anyone has successfully eliminated black molds with this substance. Where
I live, mildew and mold proliferate. They even grow in the trunk of my car due to a leak.
I understand that odors are managed, but molds? Id love to learn more. Thank you!
o
Patrick
March 17, 2014 at 9:16 pm - Reply...
I have had success personally combating molds with this, and for cases where that
did not work, I used the ginger-garlic extract. It is very effective on tough molds.
Make a batch and try on your molds and see if you can combat them that way. I
think in general this is better as a preventative measure, while for tough molds
you would need something stronger and more anti-fungal, like the ginger-garlic
extract.
Khaessha Arsenal
March 13, 2014 at 2:25 am - Reply...
Hello Mr. Gil Carandang, I and my research group mates are having a study on the
efficiency of LAB as a degrading agent to solid wastes. And we used one of your articles
on Korean Natural Farming as reference. We were just wondering if this LAB would be
effective or if you have already tried it on Solid Waste.
o
Patrick
March 17, 2014 at 9:23 pm - Reply...
I will pass this on to Gil. I can tell you though, it is very effective on solid wastes.
This is the recipe to follow if you want to make lacto and test it for your study.
Becky Keith
March 19, 2014 at 5:28 am - Reply...
Thanks for all the great info. We had the bad luck to have a commercial chicken farm
move in behind our property. If the wind is coming from that direction the smell is
horrific. Whew I thought the paper mill the next town over was bad till this operation set
up. I plan to go and have a chat with them and see if they know about this or would be
willing to give it a try. Lol of course I plan to also use it on my pre-teen stinky boys to
see if it helps. Their shoes and BO can rival the chicken farm some days.
o
Patrick
March 23, 2014 at 10:03 pm - Reply...
Oh man, can you have them get in touch with me? I would love to convince them
to implement lacto spraying on their farm.. it is incredibly effective in this
capacity, you would not even notice the farm once they get going using the lacto.
I would love to get a case study as well, your perspective and theirs together
would make an excellent case study. I will give whatever support they need, and I
promise you will all be happier for it, those smells can be terrible and lacto just
destroys them particularly manure/decay type smells like chicken/pig farms.
Rosalie Misco
March 19, 2014 at 11:34 am - Reply...
I make sourdough starter for making bread. If I add powdered milk to the bread dough
with the starter, will the lacto develop and will the lacto digest the gluten in the bread? If
so I suspect baking will kill the lacto. If they have already digested the gluten in the
wheat, it shouldnt matter. I appreciate your help.
o
Patrick
March 23, 2014 at 9:51 pm - Reply...
Hi Rosalie,
Good question, Im not sure on this one maybe one of our unconventional
farmers can help out here? My guess is no, it wont work unfortunately but Im
not sure.. Sorry I cant help you more there..
Cheers,
Patrick
Rosalie
March 24, 2014 at 12:14 pm - Reply...
Patrick,
I actually made sourdough rye bread using my home made starter to which
I added 4 cups of milk powder (made about 25 loaves of bread) to see if
the lacto would develop. Adding the milk powder and letting it ferment
over night did produce a different result with obvious additional
fermentation that I have not seen in previous batches of sourdough bread.
Since Lacto is the digestive bacteria, it seems it should digest that gluten.
The sourdough starter I had made was already fermented so it had some
kind of bacteria existing before adding the milk powder. How can I know
what kind of bacteria
I have cultivated. My goal is to make wheat/rye bread that a gluten
intolerant person can eat. People who are wheat intolerant can digest my
current sourdough bread. How can I tell what kind of bacteria exists in my
bread dough?
Patrick
March 24, 2014 at 10:41 pm - Reply...
Hi Rosalie,
If you are seeing fermentation in the presence of high quantities
lactose, it should be lactic acid bacteria doing the fermenting, as
opposed to yeast or other bacterias. As far as knowing for sure
what species or even genus youd have to look at it under a
microscope or send it to a lab I think. I would be more interested in
testing your breads for gluten after trying the new recipe see if
the LAB consumed the gluten. Can you test that?
Rosalie
March 25, 2014 at 5:54 am - Reply...
I dont know how to test for gluten in my bread. Do you? The only thing I know to do
would to ask a person with gluten intolerance to try it. I know that sourdough bread is
easier for people with problems to digest. That is without the added milk powder.
If the gluten is predigested by lacto, that would be quite an innovation considering the
number of people going gluten free. I have a small bakery with a small number of
customers. If I could prove that the gluten has been digested, the financial reward would
be pretty great. If I send you some of the bread, could you tell if the gluten is gone by
looking at it under your microscope? Or how can I find out?
o
Patrick
March 25, 2014 at 11:31 pm - Reply...
Hi Rosalie,
Im not sure how to test for gluten, I would look online and see if you can find a
lab that will test that for you. It will cost a bit but I think you should find
something.. Anyway try making it and see how that goes first. Then maybe ask
someone who is intolerant if theyd be willing to be a guinea pig, haha. Then have
it analyzed if all goes well, so youre sure. Could be amazing if it works!
Cheers,
Patrick
Nik Amin
April 23, 2014 at 4:25 am - Reply...

Hi Gil & Patrick,
Hope U r in great health.
I read Luvin post on using LAB to his rice field. The result was better than the last
season.
My question r
1 . What is the ratio used?
2. When do U spray and how many time?
Tqvm, Ur website r so insightful and very helpful
o
luvin
April 25, 2014 at 9:50 am - Reply...
hello nik amin,
so glad you have read my post regarding the LAB on my rice field. I followed the
1:20 dilution and used 2tbsp of that to one liter of non-chlorinated water. I
sprayed it before the flowering stage and since i made only a little amount of
LAB, i was only able to spray once during the whole cropping stage. I believe
applying it on a once-a-week basis would be best. I already have prepared another
batch of LAB and Fish ferment to be used for the next cropping season comes
june (planting season). i will add the FPE and the OHN to my preparations as
soon as i got the materials ready. im looking forward to an increase on my crops
next season. i will be posting it soon. harvest season will be by september.
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 10:06 pm - Reply...
Hi Nik,
Hopefully Luvin can answer that. I can just say, use the application ratio we
suggest. You can spray as often or little as you like. I would combine nutrients
with the LAB, let it sit 1-2 days, and then use that. Use that technique whenever
you normally apply nutrients.
cheers Patrick
Arvin M.
April 25, 2014 at 7:28 am - Reply...
Hi Patrick,
First off Id like to thank you and Gil for the amazing work that you guys do. Most of the
gratitude is freely you share the experience and knowledge. Also for creating an
environment where people can readily share their ideas.
Im just a hobbyist doing a little organic gardening at home and your site has proven to
be a most essential companion.
Its like getting that chemistry set that I always wanted as a child!
This time Id like to share a small twist I made with your Lacto Serum recipe.
Ive been fermenting milk using the standard rice wash and milk recipe, but had very
little luck in getting curds that are solid
enough to strain cleanly. What happens is I end up mixing the concoction up, and using
the whole thing as the final serum. I think it has something to do the with milk since Ive
only been able to get UHT processed ones in the groceries.
Anyway, Ive also been reading up on the different strains of lactobacilli and decided to
experiment on one strain thats cheap and readily available (available in most 7-11 stores
here in Manila).
Heres what i did: (lactobacillus casei serum)
1) bought 2 liters of cheap UHT full cream milk, bought 3 Yakult bottles (@10 pesos per
bottle).
2) put 1 liter of milk in a sauce pan and brought it to a boil (once bubbles formed I
quickly took it off the stove).
3) added the remaining 1 liter of milk.
4) poured it into pitcher and let it cool down to a temp a little warmer than body temp (40
deg celsius guesstimate)
5) poured 2 small bottles of Yakult into the milk (i drank the third bottle because its my
favorite)
6) put on the pitcher cover and covered it with a black t-shirt. set it on top of my closet.
I did everything last night, and now (in a little less than 24 hours) ive got what i assume
to be very good curd and whey separation:
https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.09/1620386_10152116459306319_4217804375296503580_n.jpg
Although, I really hope its the lactobacillus casei (Shirota strain!) multiplying and not
just wishful thinking.
Thanks for reading. More power to you! (I never really understood what that phrase
means. Would be nice if you get super mutant powers every time someone said that to
you)
-Arvin
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 10:18 pm - Reply...
Great post Arvin, thanks for sharing! With picture and everything, nice!
Thanks for contributing your recipe, Im sure others will find it interesting!
Cheers,
Patrick
yash
June 10, 2014 at 7:22 am - Reply...
hey i added sporlac capsule in it to improve bacterial counts is it fine?
Patrick
July 2, 2014 at 11:37 pm - Reply...
Hey Yash, that shouldnt be a problem, they are related species so
they should play nice..
Anne
April 26, 2014 at 3:53 am - Reply...
Hi patrick!
I just wanted to make sure if i was doing the right thing. I have my pure lacto mixed it
with same amount of molasses. I just store it in a 4gallon plastic container. And when i
need to use it i just do the 1:20 dilution. Am i doing the right thing or would you rather
recommend that the lacto be refrigerated? Thanks again!!
o
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 10:30 pm - Reply...
You can leave it out since it is half sugar. But when using, you dilute it TWICE
so dilute it 1:20.. And then dilute THAT solution when applying, normally 1-2
tbsp/gal depending on application. The 1:20 should be stored in fridge for longer
term.
Lichen
April 26, 2014 at 1:32 pm - Reply...

Molasses has fiber added!
Gil or Patrick,
Beautiful write up and pictures, thanks! I bought a 50-pound bag of animal feed
molasses, mixed it into my beautiful whey 1:1. It came out gooey and grainy. Oops, I
read the fine print the molasses bag has a second ingredient of 15% plant fiber! I hate
to waste the whey and the bag of molasses. I thought of two possibilities: 1) Store the
batch in refrigerator as is. Do the first 1:20 dilution, and attempt to strain out the plant
fiber from this first thinner dilution. 2) Add some milk to the main batch, leave it at room
temperature, and see if the wee lacto beasties will eat the grain fiber.
Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated, and thanks for all you do.
o
Lichen
April 26, 2014 at 2:48 pm - Reply...
OK, I went on with the first 1:20 dilution. It is quite liquid & I think I can strain
out the grain fiber.
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 10:34 pm - Reply...
Ya that should work.. sorry for the late reply, busy days here in Manila..
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 10:34 pm - Reply...
Hey Lichen,
The first 2 options would work fine.. The microbes will likely have a hard time
digesting the fiber, but they would soften it up quite a bit, for quicker degradation
in the soil.
The fiber isnt a problem though, I wouldnt worry about it. If youre drinking,
its good fiber for your diet. If for plants, good nutrients for them. Haha, win-win.
You would just want to strain in final application, if said application is through
irrigation lines or something where the fiber could clog lines..
Cheers,
Patrick
jenedin
April 30, 2014 at 3:07 am - Reply...

patrick,
good day! my question is not related to gardening but i hope u can help me. u have
mentioned above that the lactic acid formed in the rice wash can be substituted as rennet
in making cheese, can this also be use in making yogurt? hope to hear from you soon.
o
Patrick
May 6, 2014 at 10:45 pm - Reply...
Hi Jenedin,
Sorry this is kinda outside my expertise..You can try it, it should work since LAB
are the active microbes in yoghurt.. But youll have to try and see. Good luck! Let
us know how it goes..
Patrick
Annie
July 30, 2014 at 5:31 am - Reply...
the curds can be eaten like you would cottage cheese or riccotta cheese, just add
salt to the curds AFTER you have drained the whey. But dont eat too much as
once as it will make you run, pardon the pun, to the toilet.
silcax
May 16, 2014 at 7:53 am - Reply...
which is more effective in odor control. this or the BIM?
o
Patrick
May 19, 2014 at 10:55 pm - Reply...
Lacto is a more pure solution to odor control. Either one works fine since lacto is
in BIM anyway, but the lacto is the one really responsible for killing the odors, so
you can just use that no prob.
Monique
May 19, 2014 at 9:38 am - Reply...
Hi!
I love your website and all that you are doing to spread information to educate about
natural farming. I used raw milk for my lacto and it seems to have separated into a top
and bottom curd with the yellow lacto serum in between. This is my first time making it
so is it ready or am I jumping the gun and should wait until all that is below the top curd
is yellowish clear looking? I harvested about 2 oz of the yellow liquid and stabilized it
with molasses this morning because I really wanted to spray down the bedding in the
chicken coop to get a start on fermenting their manure.
Also, I wanted to add that since the weather here has been a bit on the chilly side, I
wrapped the jar of lacto ferment with a short (3ft long) strand of christmas lights to bring
the temp up a few degrees and I think it has helped the process a long quite a bit.
Another question; Do you know if using Diatomaceous Earth is conducive to BIM or
harmful. I accidentally killed a batch of black soldier fly larvae by allowing them too
close to my chick manure (from when they were still brooding indoors and were on sand
that I had mixed with DE because I needed something to dry the bedding out while
keeping odors down since I still didnt have any lacto to use). I know that DE is not
harmful to beneficial gut flora when ingested internally, so Id assume its fine with the
BIM but harmful to larger, micro eating life forms (larvae, worms, etc). The reason I ask
is because I am trying to weigh the pros and cons of using DE with my chickens.
Thanks for any insight!
Monique
o
Patrick
May 20, 2014 at 3:16 am - Reply...
Hey Monique,
Glad you are enjoying the site and our recipes!
If it has separated into curds and whey, it should be ready, go ahead and drain it.
No problem that some are on top and some on bottom.
Good question about DE and BIM. My feeling is that it might harm some but
leave others alone. I dont think it will just kill everything and I think youll be
fine using them together, but you can likely expect a little less diversity of
microbes. Not sure though, just play with it and see.
Let us know how the lacto and chicken coop smell goes! It should help
immensely! And get a nice head start on the compost process!
Cheers,
Patrick
LUVIN
May 21, 2014 at 5:01 pm - Reply...

hello again Patrick,
i just want to have your opinion on using Lacto whey (the one without the molasses
yet)on making herbal and organic soaps. Ive read along this thread here that lacto can
tolerate acidic environment. but what about an alkaline environment brought by the
process of soapmaking using sodium hydroxide to saponify oils in soaps? i am very
interested in adding lacto whey to my soaps (or maybe the 1:1 lacto-molasses serum)
since i believe it can aid in exfoliating dry dead skin cells and promotes lightening of skin
tones, as many Asians desired that in their soaps. I hope you could help me with this, and
if i may, send you samples of my soap using lacto on it. thank you very much
o
Patrick
June 6, 2014 at 4:51 am - Reply...
Hey Luvin,
Thats a good question. I cant say exactly which strains of lacto will be in your
lacto serum, but unfortunately most lacto strains do not tolerate alkaline
environments well. Sorry, I doubt it will work well as an additive to your soaps.
That said, you can try using it, and sending me the soap you make!
But I dont want to mislead you, its unlikely any lacto will survive once you add
the soda.
Cheers,
Patrick
LUVIN
June 8, 2014 at 1:49 am - Reply...
thank you for that info, i really appreciate it. i think i should get more
research on using lacto on soaps. i didnt use any thermometer in
measuring how hot the process made, but it is hot enough to burn
someones skin. anyway, i did used the lacto whey in one of my yogurt
soaps and placed it in the fridge to cool.. i should send you samples of it
but dont know where your address is, so i can send it via one of the local
couriers. much as im so passionate in farming, so is into soap making
Patrick
July 2, 2014 at 11:14 pm - Reply...
Haha thats awesome luvin!! Yeah please send me some soap id

love it! Ill email you my address.
LUVIN
May 21, 2014 at 5:06 pm - Reply...
and oh, another issue.. will heat created during the gel-stage of the saponification
process kills the lacto? or should i dont gel it up and place my soap in the fridge? thanks
again..
o
Patrick
June 6, 2014 at 4:52 am - Reply...
lacto are pretty tolerant of heat, they will do fine up to around body temperature
and higher. How hot does it get?
Nebula
May 26, 2014 at 6:51 am - Reply...
Ok,on one site me find very simple recipe for lacto.And it is to put one table spoon of rie
or other kind of flour in one litre of water and to leave it anaerobic to fermentate for
couple days till it is milky white and little sour.Is it simular with your recipe?Like end
product?Me made this acording to your recipe,but waiting for proces to finish so me can
taste it.Thanks!!!
o
Patrick
July 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm - Reply...
Yeah thats similar. The difference is, when you add that sour rice wash to milk,
you get a TON more lacto bacteria in final culture.
Yash
June 10, 2014 at 12:14 am - Reply...
Hey, it is so useful thanks for sharing this
I was wondering can i use it to clear surface of ponds for aquaculture?
If yes then can u suggest me carrier material as i was thinking to make tablet of this
serum
And another thing is can i use it to treat poultry waste as it smells too bad
o
Patrick
July 2, 2014 at 11:36 pm - Reply...

Absolutely Yash, it is awesome for those applications. We are coming out with a
clay ball recipe for longer slower release of lacto for aquaculture. For now just
use the liquid form for ponds spray your lacto mixture around your pond and it
will clean up the sludge and slime typical of unused ponds.
It is incredible at reducing animal feces odors try it on the chicken manure you
will see.
Cheers,
Patrick
yash
July 4, 2014 at 2:41 am - Reply...
well then i am waiting for clay ball recipe
Mike
June 12, 2014 at 8:20 am - Reply...
Hi, I just made a batch of lacto and I have about a gallon of the concentrated serum. I
mixed 2 gallons of diluted serum using 1 cup of concentrate to 1 gallon of water. I want
to use this on some dog urine odor I have in basement concrete floor. Do I need to dilute
further of should I use the 1:20 ratio in a pump sprayer? Any other advice would be
appreciated. Should I wet the concrete first or just spray on dry concrete? My thoughts
are the bacteria will die off as soon as the liquid dries.
o
Patrick
July 2, 2014 at 11:59 pm - Reply...
I think you can still dilute it further, your floor might smell like lacto at that
rate(id dilute again 1:20). The lacto will die off or become dormant when the
concrete dries, but not before controlling the smell. You can wet the floor first
will probably work better.
Kalpana
June 12, 2014 at 8:52 pm - Reply...
Hi Patrick
As per your recipe i made the the lacto and it has taken only 10 hrs to to form curds. The
temp here in India is around 30 ish. So do i keep it for 7 days and then extract the serum
or do i extract it right away?

Thanks.
o
Patrick
July 6, 2014 at 6:18 am - Reply...
Hi Kalpana,
I would still give it a few days so that you make sure you have good populations
of bacteria built up. After a few days you can harvest it, you dont have to wait
the full 7 days.
Cheers,
Patrick
John
June 13, 2014 at 7:45 pm - Reply...
Hi Patrick
Thanks for your posting. Highly informative.
One quick question.
Is LAB edible for human? If it is for human consumption, how do you use it?
John
o
Patrick
July 6, 2014 at 6:20 am - Reply...
Hi John,
Yep you can drink it no problem. Just dilute it properly. And make sure you have
made a good batch! No mold or other contaminants.
Review the part of the recipe with usage instructions and youll see where it says
for use as a digestive aid.
Thanks for reading,
Patrick
Yash
July 7, 2014 at 11:43 am - Reply...
Hey patrick, for human wont it be good if we directly innoculate yakult in

milk ?
What you say?
John
June 13, 2014 at 7:47 pm - Reply...
And what is the caution I have to have in mind?
o
Patrick
July 6, 2014 at 6:21 am - Reply...
Just make sure you have a good batch (no mold), and dilute according to the
recipe. Should be good! I drink every day..
Stephen Avens
June 16, 2014 at 4:23 am - Reply...
Can this be used in Aquaponic Systems to promote both plant and fish growth.
o
Patrick
July 6, 2014 at 6:24 am - Reply...
Hi Stephen,
Yep, this is used in aquaculture to reduce disease, promote growth, and generally
keep fish healthy even in crowded conditions. The lacto bacteria consume the fish
wastes which otherwise build up in the water. Also, as they consume the fish
wastes they are turning them into bio-available forms for immediate uptake by
your plants.
Do you have an aquaponics system? Can you use and let us know how it goes?
That would be awesome!
Cheers,
Patrick
levy lim
July 6, 2014 at 6:41 pm - Reply...
Hello Patrick,
my fermented rice wash and skim milk after 7 days did not form a lot of curds. i can still
see the liquids under it but i saw like bubbly at the top.Is this right? it looks like not
enough curds to me at the top unlike yours. pls tell me if im doing this right. The ratio is
1liter of rice wash to 10 liters of skim milk. My milk ratio is 1kilo skim to 10liters of
water. Please help. Thanks bunches!
Kalpana
July 7, 2014 at 3:47 am - Reply...
HI, Patrick,
I made the serum and applied them to my newly pruned container plants. Within a few
days there were numerous shoots popping all over the place. Its as if the plant was on
steroids. Not complaining though. Seriously, this is too good. Ive made some bloom
fertiliser also and am waiting to apply this as well. When do I do this anyway?As soon as
the buds start appearing or before that?Clueless here. Thanks a lot for your time and
patience.
o
Henry
July 7, 2014 at 9:45 am - Reply...
Kalpana,
Dont mean to hijack or undercut Patrick, but it would be wise to check out CalPhos in the recipe section. In so far as the bloom I begin applying as soon as I see
any signs of bud development. Again Im speaking for myself and not for Patrick.
The Cal-Phos recipe just prior to bud development works wonders for me!
Annie
July 30, 2014 at 5:23 am - Reply...
Hi Patrick, I could not do any gardening for some months on doctors orders. I put my
LAB innoculated with molasses into the fridge now already a few months. Is the
microorganisma still alive, do you think? I made a lot and would really be sad if I have to
throw the lot away. Please can you reply asap as I am going to resume gardening, doctor
approves or not.
jeff
can i use curdled milk for the milk mixing part? or should u use fresh
jeff
Example Recipe:
1 L rice wash
10L Milk
10kg sugar
After rice wash and milk remove curds around 1L
= 20 L lactic acid bacteria serum
the 10 kg sugar partis this rightcause right before you say this it says 1kg sugar per
1L. not 10 per 1. please let me know, because i am on this step!
jeff
thanks! you guys have some great stuff

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Lactobacillus Serum

What to Use it for and How

Animals Digestive/Growth Aid:

Improve digestive efficiency in humans and animals alike:

Great results in livestock and poultry.

Plants Growth Aid:

This is a consequence of the increased efficiency of nutrients. More nutrients available at

Aid Organic Fertilizer:

What if we try to make specific plant microorganism, should we attract the

April 1, 2013 at 7:57 am - Reply...

April 12, 2013 at 11:26 pm - Reply...

gradually become more acidic. As if it is undergoing a secondary

moving in the direction of natural processes with an

April 18, 2013 at 7:02 am - Reply...

June 8, 2013 at 1:57 am - Reply...

Hi Sir Patrick and Sir Gil,

Ruth Elin Maramba

Ruth Elin Maramba

Ruth Elin Maramba

Thanks Patrick! ill make a new batch.. i think mine went

July 8, 2013 at 10:51 am - Reply...

August 20, 2013 at 7:12 am - Reply...

August 20, 2013 at 1:42 pm - Reply...

doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw a white and reddish

September 3, 2013 at 6:00 am - Reply...

September 30, 2013 at 1:55 am - Reply...

You can mix any combination as long as overall dilution is about

thanks for the clarification.. i enjoyed farming and making

I imagine the buttermilk+neem would be effective because of the better coating

Thanks for sharing Prachi! That is awesome!

Any thoughts? Nice FLOG by the way!

February 11, 2014 at 12:04 pm - Reply...

February 22, 2014 at 10:47 pm - Reply...

February 22, 2014 at 10:32 pm - Reply...

thailand its beautiful. as a matter of fact i was reading about

chickens, on yourself, anywhere.. doesnt matter. These microbes are everywhere

March 10, 2014 at 9:34 pm - Reply...

April 23, 2014 at 4:25 am - Reply...

April 26, 2014 at 1:32 pm - Reply...

April 30, 2014 at 3:07 am - Reply...

May 21, 2014 at 5:01 pm - Reply...

Haha thats awesome luvin!! Yeah please send me some soap id

July 2, 2014 at 11:36 pm - Reply...

or do i extract it right away?

Hey patrick, for human wont it be good if we directly innoculate yakult in

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