cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 1 IN THE [OWA DISTRICT COURT FOR POLK COUNTY 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 CHRISTOPHER J. GODFREY, Plaintife, vs. STATE OF IOWA; TERRY BRANSTAD, Governor of the State of Iowa, individually and in his official capacity: KIMBERLY REYNOLDS, Lieutenant Governor of the State of Iowa, individually and in her official capacity; JEFFREY BOEYINK, Chief of Staff to the Governor of the State of Towa, individually and in his official capacity; BRENNA FINDLEY, Legal Counsel to the Governor of the State of Iowa, individually and in her official capacity: TIMOTHY ALBRECHT, Communications Director to the Governor of the State of Iowa, individually and in his official capacity; and TERESA WAHLERT, Director, Iowa Workforce Development, individually and in her official capacity, Defendants. Law No. LACL124195 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TERRY BRANSTAD THE VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TERRY BRANSTAD, taken before Chris A. Quinlin, Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the State of Towa, commencing at 9:19 a.m., November 26, 2014, at 1820 NW 118th Street, Suite 200, Des Moines, Towa. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD (515) 288-491010 al 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY Plaintiff by: Defendants by: State of Iowa by: Videographer: Also present: ROXANNE BARTON CONLIN Attorney at Law ROXANNE CONLIN & ASSOCIATES 319 Seventh Street Suite 600 Des Moines, IA $0309 (515) 283-1111 GEORGE A. LaMARCA ANDREW H. DOANE Attorneys at Law LaMARCA LAW GROUP 1820 NW 118th Street Suite 200 Des Moines, TA 50325 (515) 225-2600 JEFFREY C. PETERZALEK Assistant Attorney General 1305 Bast Walnut Street Second Floor Des Moines, IA 50319 (515) 281-4213 AMY COOPER CHRISTOPHER J. GODFREY BRENNA FINDLEY HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 iL 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 ar 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ENDEX Examination by: Page Ms. Conlin ‘ Exhibit Marked 87 52 58 54 59 57 60 7 61 114 62 137 63 138 64 139 65 168 66 172 67 202 68 209 69 211 70 221 nm 233 72 234 73 250 74 255 75 255 76 256 HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491016 a7 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 ca 18 19 80 82 83 84 85 86 88 89 90 91 (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) DE X ~ Continued Marked 259 261 281 287 290 291 293 296 399 417 421 423 433 HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 7 PROCEEDINGS THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning the videotaped deposition of Governor Terry Branstad, requested by the plaintiff in the matter of Christopher J. Godfrey, Plaintiff, versus State of Towa, Terry Branstad, et al., Defendants, in the Iowa District Court for Polk County, Case Number LACL124195. Today's date is November 26th, 2014, and the approximate time is 219 a.m. This deposition is being held in the offices of LaMarca & Landry, 1820 Northwest 118th Street, Suite 210, Clive, Iowa. My name is Amy Cooper, certified legal videographer, of Fidelity Video Services, Incorporated, West Des Moines, Towa. Counsel will please identify themselves for the record. MS. CONLIN: Roxanne Conlin on behalf of the plaintiff. MR. LaMARCA: George LaMarca on behalf of the defendants. MR. DOANE: Andrew Doane on behalf of the defendants. MR. PETERZALEK: Jeff Peterzalek HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ee 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 8 with the attorney general's office on behalf of the State of Iowa. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The oath will now be administered by Chris Quinlin, certified shorthand reporter, of Huney-Vaughn Court Reporters, Des Moines, Iowa. TERRY BRANSTAD, called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CONLIN: Q. Tell us your name, please. A, My name is Terry Branstad. @. And you live at Terrace Hill? AL Yes. @. You hesitated. Do you not live at Terrace Hill? A. Well, I live at Terrace Hill. That is the official residence of the governor. And T have lived there since I was elected as governor again and -- and took office in 2011. Q. Okay. Your first term of service was 1983 to 1998; correct? A. Well, actually, January of 199. so it's -- you serve until the new governor is HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 au 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a inaugurated. So it was from January of 1983 to January 1999. @. All right. And then you went -- and tell me what you did in the interim period between 1999 and 20 ~~ 2011. For a brief -- For a brief period of time I was an adjunct professor at the University of Towa on the Henry Tippie College of Business teaching leadership classes for three semesters. I then -- I went to work for Robert W, Baird, passed the Series 7 securities exam, and was a financial advisor for three years with Robert W. Baird. During that time T also served on some -- some boards for different companies. 1 think you remember deposing me because I was on the board of MidAmerican Energy at the time it was sold to Berkshire Hathaway. That was one of the companies that I served on the board of during that time. And -- And then, of course, I was on the board of Des Moines University, and T was chosen to be the president of Des Moines University. And I served six years and three HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 14 45 16 WwW is 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a months as the president of Des Moines University. And then at the end of October 2009 I retired as the president of Des Moines University to explore running for governor again. I'd been recruited by a number of people who felt that the state was going the wrong direction and we needed experienced leadership to get the state back on track. And I accepted that call and made the decision and announced in January of 2010 to run for governor again and spelled out my -- my goals and my vision for the future of the state. Q. All right. And in 2010 you were elected, and then you were elected again in 2014; correct? Correct. Have you had an opportunity to visit with your attorney prior to this deposition? AL Yes. Q. How long a period of time did you spend with your attorneys? We spent a significant time. I think several hours. Q. All right. Did you have enough time to HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 1g 20 24 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEFO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ° visit with him or them? A. Yes. And And they have always been accessible and available for any consultation or questions that I might have over the time since this lawsuit has been filed and they've been retained as our attorneys. Are there any factors which would make it difficult for you to focus on the questions and provide accurate answers today? AL No. Are you taking any kinds of medications? AL No. All right. Well, do you have -~ are you taking any medications like Carbidopa/Levodopa, Sinemet, Benzodiazepines? Anything like that? Well, T don't even know what those things are. Q. Okay. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 10 A, But no, I'm not taking any of the ones that you mentioned. @. No antianxiety medication? AL No. Aside from the deposition that I took of you several years ago, have you had your deposition taken before? I have. @. On how many occasions? on a few occasions. I would say less than half a dozen. Q. Do you ~~ Aside from the MidAmerican Energy one, do you remember any of the others? 1 do remember one involving a situation with an ethanol plant which was contemplated to be built in the state of Pennsylvania that eventually was not built. @. What was. your role in that case? A. Well, it was -~ Actually, I was dismissed as a party to that case after the deposition. But I've been a strong advocate for renewable fuels, and I served as a public member of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, AICPA, and met a CPA at a HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) al council meeting of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants who told me of his interest in building an ethanol plant in the state of Pennsylvania. And, of course, Iowa has more ethanol plants than any other state, and so I told them that I was very enthusiastic about ethanol and the opportunity that it had. And so I had basically indicated to him that 1 would be willing to be an advisor or whatever. And -~ And the lawsuit involved people that had invested with him that I had no knowledge of. @. All right. Any others that you remember? A. No. Q. All right. A. None in -- in recent times. You know, going way back to when I practiced law -- and 1 have -- I'm a recovering lawyer. I practiced law from 1974 to 1982. So I think there were some depositions maybe during that period of time. And I even took some depositions. @. Did you sit for a deposition in that HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 a5 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 12 period of time? A, I don't recall. I do recall having taken some depositions. I even recall a case involving depositions that went all the way to the Court of Appeals, which we were successful. Even though we'd lost the ~- the case in district court, we were successful on appeal. But that -- it had to do -- that was a criminal case. Q. Okay. Are you currently a licensed attorney? No. TI have not been ~~ When I left the governor's office, I had appointed a considerable number of judges, and I made the conscious decision not to go back into law practice because I thought it would be a very difficult, uncomfortable situation for judges if one of the attorneys that was trying a case had actually appointed that judge. So I made the decision and have not been involved in the law practice since I was elected governor and sold my interest in the law practice to Richard Schwarm in 1982 at the end of the year. 2 So you do not currently have a license HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 a. 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 13 to practice law? BA. I do not. Q. All right. A. And have not since ‘82. @. Have you had an opportunity to review any of the depositions that have been taken in this case? aA. No. @. Not Mx. Godfrey's deposition or -- A. No. @. -- Ms. Wahlert's or anyone else? A. No. @. Has anyone provided you with a summary of those depositions? No. Q. For the record, I'd like to remind you of the rules that we follow. One is you need to answer questions orally, which you're very good at doing. And two is that you need to wait until I finish my question before you begin your answer. And three is be sure that you understand my question before you try to answer HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a2 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 14 it. Will you do all those things? Yes. @. Have you had an opportunity to review any of the documents? A. I have. reviewed the interrogatory, my interrogatory. Q. Just one? A. Well, and I've reviewed some other documents with regard to my responsibilities under the Code of Iowa. Q. The -- The law that governs that responsibility? ts that what you're talking about -- A. Yes. Q. =~ or something else? A. The law that governs the responsibility with regard to setting the salary of the commissioner of workers' compensation. @. Anything else? Any other documents? A. ‘Those are the primary documents that I have -- have reviewed. Q. Nothing else? A, Not that I can think of. Q@. All right. Aside from your attorneys, HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1. 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 1s 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) fal have you talked with anyone else about this deposition? No. @. Do you use e-mail? A I do not. @. Do you have e-mail addresses? A. I do not. Do you use Twitter? A. I do not, but my -- my staff does. @. Okay. Do -~ But you do not personally use Twitter. Is that a correct understanding? A. I do not. I have a communications director who does that on -- on behalf of the governor's office. Q. Do you have a smartphone? A. I do not @. Do you use texting or instant messaging of any kind? I do not @. Do you have a Facebook account? I do not. @. Do you use any kind of social media? A. I do not. @. Okay. Do you know whether or not there are e-mail addresses which receive e-mails for HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 16 you or from which you can send e-mails? A, I do not have an e-mail, and I do not send e-mails. There are members of my staff and my wife that have e-mails. Q. All right. Do you -- Are there e-mail addresses that receive e-mail for you? Do you understand what I'm asking? A. Well, the governor's office has an e-mail address. Q. Right. Right. A. And it is received by my staff. @. Do ~~ Do you ever direct your staff to send e-mails? AL No. All right. Each -- I'm assuming, is this correct, Governor, that each of your staff members has his or her own e-mail address? A. To the best of my knowledge, they do. @. All right. When you were the president of Des Moines University, did you use e-mail? A. Yes. Okay. And -- And did you have your own e-mail address? Yes. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 1s 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) oad @. And you received e-mail at that address, and you also sent e-mail from that address? Yes. Why did you decide not to have an e-mail address as governor of the state of Towa? A. Well, T consulted with Brenna Findley on that issue and felt that in light of what had happened previously with other governors, that it would probably not be a wise thing, because somebody might send me an e-mail that says something derogatory or inflammatory, and 1 didn't want that attributed to me. All right. So it was on advice of Counsel that you decided not to have any kind of an e-mail presence? A. Yes. All right. All -- All of the e-mails that are sent to your office, do they -- do they all go through state servers, or do you know? A. I do not know. @. Do you know whether or not your office or members of your staff use servers that are not on the state communications system? A I do not know. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 18 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 18 Q. Do you know whether or not the electronic communication devices used by the governor's office comply with all document retention policies of the state of Lowa? A Well, I don't of my own personal knowledge. I do know that we try very carefully to abide by all the laws and rules that the state of Towa has. @. Who would know about the communication -- electronic communication policies of the governor's office? I would think the communications Q@. That would be now? A. Well, that would be Jimmy Centers. @. Is he an IT person as well? A. He is very knowledgeable in social media, as was his predecessor Tim Albrecht. And -- And frankly, it's one of the reasons why I hired them, because they're of a younger generation and are very effective at social communication and know how to use Facebook and Twitter and all the means of communications that are so important to communicate in this day and age. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 19 Q. Do you have an IT staff person of any kind? A. We have -- We have a person that is in charge of that for the state of Iowa, and he's got a very unusual name. And he's done a great job. He came from the west. I think from Wyoming or out in that area. And he is basically the person that's in charge of IT for the state of Iowa. @. Do == Do you communicate with him yourself? I've had meetings with him. Primarily it's been my staff, but I have met with -- with him on -~ on occasion. @. Do you want to take a shot at his name? A. Well, IT -- Q. If -~ I can probably find it out if you can't remember it or if you can't pronounce it. I think -~ Well, maybe Brenna can help me. I don't know if — Q. At -- At a break perhaps. A. Yeah. @. You can =~ A. I can -- I can get you his name Okay. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 15 16 aq a8 a9 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 20 A. It is a very long and hard to pronounce and difficult name. Q. All right. All right. A, And he's -- But he's done an excellent job. We've gotten really good feedback on the work that he's done in trying to better and work with the departments and agencies to try and improve the whole IT program in state government. And, you know, that is a huge problem, because there's a lot of -- there's a lot of issues and there's a lot of lack of standardization. Q. Is he the chief information officer? A. Yes, he's the chief information officer for the state. @. All right. Do you know whether or not there is a litigation hold on the communications of your staff? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. So are the -- are members of your staff, to your knowledge, continuing to follow the document destruction policies of the state of Iowa? Yes. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 ay 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 2 @. Okay. So no one has told you that all of the material that you have created or that has any -- any possibility of relating to this lawsuit is not supposed to be thrown away? A, Well, I just know that my -- my staff has been instructed to follow the law and -- and do what's appropriate. I do know that maintenance of records is a significant issue that the state has to deal with. And -- And not just e-mails but also the paper records and how long they have to be kept and all of this. And -- And then my recollection is even going back to when I was governor before, eventually they then go to archives at -- at the -- the Department of Cultural Affairs, part of the Historical Building. @. Do you understand what a litigation hold is? A. No. Q. Okay. But to your knowledge, there is no litigation hold at the moment on -- on your materials? Is that a correct understanding? A. I don't know what a litigation hold is, and I don't know whether there is or isn't. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 22 @. All right. How do you ensure that text messages are retained? A, That's not something that I deal with because I don't receive text messages. @. Do people on your staff receive text messages? AL Yes. Q. Do they have smartphones that are issued by the state of Towa, or do they have personal smartphones, or do you know? A. I don’t know. I don't have a smartphone. I think that there are members of my staff that may have, but I don't know for sure. @. All right. Do you have a general understanding of the way that the workers’ compensation laws of the state of Iowa work and how people who are injured file claims and that sort of thing? A. Yes. @. Do you know what percentage of cases are disputed and brought to the workers’ compensation commission? A I do not know the exact percentage, no. Do you know the number of people who HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 23 are injured on the job in Iowa on an annual basis, roughly? A. I don't know the exact number of people that are injured on the job, no. Q. And of the -~ the workers ~~ do you understand that the workers’ compensation system is designed to be self-executing? A. I understand, going back to my time in law school, that the workers’ comp system was set up as an alternative system to deal with injuries on the job so that you wouldn't have to go through the tort system, which is expensive and takes a significant amount of time, and -- and you wouldn't have to prove fault in order to have an injured worker provided with the resources for their medical bills and for healing and getting back to work as quickly as possible. @. Okay. Do you -- Do you have any idea what number of cases are disputed on an annual basis in Iowa? A. I know that there's a number of cases that are disputed. I am aware that, you know, not only do you have the workers' comp commissioner, you have a number of deputies. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 24 And there's a significant number of cases that come up every year, some of which are settled and some of which are eventually decided by a workers’ comp commissioner. @. Can you give me a percentage of the number of people who are injured whose cases are disputed? A. No. @. Can you give me a percentage of the number of cases that are disputed that eventually result in a hearing? A. No. I'm the governor of the state of Towa. I'm not the commissioner of workers’ comp, and I don't know all the details of that particular division or any other within state government. My responsibility is really to set the vision for the state and set goals for the state and focus on things that are important to grow the Iowa economy and create jobs. Q. Is it your position that the number of disputed cases in workers’ compensation is great enough to affect the -- the business climate of Towa? A. Well, I look at what the costs are and HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 qa 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 25 I listen to the people that are affected by it. As governor, I go to all 99 counties. And as @ candidate and as governor I visit with a lot of people in all kinds of businesses, large and small, be it manufacturing, food processing, trucking, whatever. And so I get information from them. I also hear from attorneys that are involved in the workers’ comp system. MS. CONLIN: Would you read him the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. It's not the number of cases. It's what the costs are that impact the business climate. @. and you ~~ A, So it's not number of cases. It's what their disposition is and what -- the costs that are as a result of workers’ comp are passed on to the employers that have to pay for them. That's what impacts the business climate. @. and you -- A. Not the number of cases. @. Are you telling me insurance premiums are what affects the business climate? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 26 A, Insurance premiums, but you also have some employers that are self-insured. Q. Yes. And so what affects their decision-making? A. Their costs. @. All right. A. So their costs -- whether it's self-insured or whether it's insurance premiums, it's their costs that -- and the relationship that that has to what the costs are in other states. So businesses are just making decisions as to where to locate a business or where to expand a business based on the competitiveness of that state’s tax and business climate. And so Iowa is in competition with all the other states in the United States, as well as other countries. Q. Po you know whether or not the percentage of cases in the Workers’ Compensation Division that settle has changed since Mr. Godfrey became the workers’ compensation commissioner? A. I've had a lot of businesses tell me that they're fearful because of some of the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ee erratic decisions that have been made and consequently are settling rather than take the risk of having it go before the workers' comp commission -- commissioner. Q. You used the word "erratic" to describe the decisions made by Mr. Godfrey. Is that a correct understanding? A, Well, I have been told by a number of business people —— Q. ho? A, Well, I don't know that I can recall all the names, but I do remember having a very serious meeting with Eldon and Regina Roth with -- Q. Roth? AL Yes. Q. And what business are they in? A. They have a company called BPI which makes lean, finely textured beef. It's a very fine product, and it's been very unfairly treated by some people in the media. And we have done all we can to try to get the truth out about the fact that it's a safe product and it's a good product and that it is actually less expensive. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 1g 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 28 And -- And if you want me to go into more detail about this product, I'd actually brought the governors of Texas and Kansas with me to go through their plant in -- in South Sioux City to demonstrate the cleanliness and the safety of this food product. They've never had complaints about it, but they've been smeared by some celebrity chefs and others that have put out misinformation and scared the public. Q. Well, Mr. Godfrey doesn't put out information like that and scare the public, does he? No. You asked me about the Roths. @. No. I asked you -~ A. And I'm telling you -- I'm telling you that -~ You asked me about people that had expressed concerns about Mr. Godfrey, but I also have shared with you that this company also has had other unfair things done to them. Q. Okay. Well, let's talk about what the Roths said to you with respect to Mr. Godfrey. A. They said that they were concerned about the direction that the workers’ comp commission was going in Iowa, that it was HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 ia 16 17 is 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 29 driving up the costs of their business and -~ and making their state of Iowa less competitive. Q. Okay. Anything else? Did they tell you how much their cost of business was being driven up by Mr. Godfrey? A. Well, I can just say that they were just one of many. I've talked to trucking companies. I've talked with manufacturers. Q. what =~ A. Well, Don Decker would be an example of a -- of a president of a trucking company in Fort Dodge. One of the classics -- Q. And what -- A. ~~ was a company called Griffin Pipe. Griffin Pipe has a plant -- had a plant in Council Bluffs and a plant in Virginia. Debi Durham and.I met with them in Chicago. They also have Griffin Wheel in -- in Keokuk. And they expressed grave concern about -- They have two plants that make pipe. Basically identical. They both make the same kind of pipe. And -- And one is in Virginia, and one is in Council Bluffs. But because the workers’ comp costs were so much higher in Towa than Virginia, HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 un 12 13 14 4s 16 aq 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 30 they eventually closed their plant in Council Bluffs. Q. Did you meet with the Griffin Pipe people once or more than once? A. I visited their plant on two different occasions. Once when IT was governor before, back in the '90s, and then again while I was governor this time. And this particular meeting with Griffin Pipe was actually held in Chicago. I think their -- with their parent company, which -- which has different operations, including Griffin Wheel. But they specifically shared with me and -- and then I think followed up with documentation as to why the costs for workers! comp in Towa were so uncompetitive with their sister plant in Virginia. Q. Do you know whether or not the laws of Virginia are the same as the laws of Towa? A. Well, not exactly. I think the laws vary from state to state and -- but we do compete with all of the states. @. But the -- A. . And the state of Oregon actually puts HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 4 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 1g 20 a1 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 31 out an annual review of the cost comparison of the various states for workers' comp. And the trend has been really bad for Iowa. Back in 2006 we were the 7th lowest. And I think in 2012 we were 28th. So we've gone to being -- from being one of the lowest in terms of workers' comp costs to now being above average. Q. Do you know whether or not other states have made legislative changes that affect their competitiveness? A. I am aware that some states have done things to -- legislatively to improve their competitiveness. Q. All right. And Towa has not taken any action since you've been the governor the second time to change anything about workers’ comp; correct? A. Well, we have a split legislature. And things that I can get passed for -- pro business things through the House I cannot necessarily even get debated in the Senate. Q. Not my question, Governor. Towa has not taken any action with respect to changing its workers HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 32 compensation system; correct? A. Not recently. @. Okay, Not while you've been governor the second time? A. Not to my knowledge. @. All right. And do you think it's fair to blame the workers compensation commissioner for the failure of the state of Iowa to take action to improve the business climate legislatively? A, Well, there's a lot of factors, but the decisions that are made by the workers' comp commissioner are one of the major factors that go into the costs of workers’ comp. And I've heard from the business community, I've heard from lawyers representing self-insured and others, and we've also had court cases where judges and even the Court of Appeals have indicated grave concern about some of the decisions that have been made by the workers' comp commissioner and some of his deputies. Q. Okay. Well, let's return to the issue of with whom you have discussed these issues. Let's set aside for the moment the issue of HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 al 12 13 a4 15 16 17 18 13 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a fairness and -- and talk about -- you had indicated that you had ~- you spoke -- let's —- well, let's ~~ let's talk about the Roths again. When did you meet with them? A. Well, I met with them first when I was campaigning for governor in 2010. Q. Where do they live? They live in the area. 1 met with them at their corporate headquarters in Dakota Dunes, South Dakota. Q@. All right. So do they have a plant in Towa? A. They did have, but they closed it. Q. When was that? A. They closed it because of that smear that I talked about about lean, finely textured beef Q. And -= and -- And that was a plant that was in Waterloo, Lowa. Q@. Okay. A. They also closed plants in Kansas and in Texas. Q@. That doesn't -- A. And I invited the governors of Texas HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 a4 18 16 47 18 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 34 and Kansas, and -- and I think the lieutenan governors of South Dakota and Nebraska joined us, and we went through the plant that stayed open in South Sioux, Nebraska. Q@. Okay. The closure of the Towa plant in Waterloo had everything to do with the so-called pink slime issue? A. No, I wouldn't use that term. Q. But finely -- A. That is not fair. It's inappropriate, and I strongly object to people using that pejorative, unfair term. Q@. The plant in Iowa that A. “Lean, finely textured beef" is the right term Q. All right. The plant in Iowa that manufactured lean, finely textured beef closed as a result of the smear that you've described; correct? A. Right. There's a lawsuit involving that. Q@ Yes A. And I believe very strongly that they were treated very unfairly by some people in the national media and -- and by certain celebrity HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 35 chefs. @. And they were defamed; right? A. They were defamed. Q. Okay. The Roths, you met during the campaign with them, Have you met -- Did you meet with them after that? AL Yes. Q. When you met with them during the campaign, what did you tell them that you would do -- Well, first of all, what did they say to you about the workers’ compensation commissioner? A. ‘They expressed concern about some of the decisions that were being made, things like expanding liability for employers for things that didn't happen during work hours or at the plant. They expressed concerns about the fact that decisions had expanded whole-body disability and -- and created uncertainty and the insurance companies were raising rates because of that level of uncertainty. Q. Insurance companies were raising the rates as a result of the decision of -- the decisions -- HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 36 A. Right. Q@. =~ of the workers! compensation commissioner? A. - Well, and T heard this not just from them. I also attended a meeting of the self-insureds. @. Okay. 1 want to do one thing at a time, though. You've told me that you met with the Roths, and I want to continue to explore what the Roths said to you with respect to Mr. Godfrey. Have you told me everything you remember about what the Roths said to you -~ A. Yes. Q. == about Mr. Godfrey? What did you say to them? A. I mainly listened. When I was running for governor, and I do this as governor, but T did this as a candidate, I went to all 99 counties. Q. I know that. A. I visited a lot of businesses. and I -- I -- And I did this as the president of Des Moines University as well. I said HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 un 12 13 14 15 16 17 ae 19 20 21 22 23 24 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) aa “What do you like about Iowa, and what are some of the problems or challenges that you think need to be addressed by the governor?" And workers" comp was one of those issues that came up consistently from a lot of different sources. They were just one of them. TI also talked to trucking companies. 1 talked with manufacturers. Q. Okay. Let's -~ A. 1 talked with businesses of all sizes in different locations of the state. And this is a theme that I consistently heard as I traveled the state of Towa and as T campaigned for governor. And I set my goals of creating 200,000 jobs, raising family incomes by 25 percent, reducing the size and cost of government, and restoring Iowa to best in America in education. Q@. All right. Can we return to the Roths and what you said to them that you would do to help them with workers’ comp in Towa? A. 1 really at that point in time just listened to their concerns and listened to the concerns of others as I traveled around the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491019 ql 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 2s cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) be state. I did indicate that my goal is to grow the Iowa economy and make Iowa as competitive as possible in all areas. Q. And then you talked to the Decker trucking company, Mr. Dan Decker. What did you -- A. Don Decker. @. Don Decker. I'm sorry. When did you meet with him? . 1 -+ I have met with Don Decker on a number of different occasions. I can't remember specifically. Q. What did he tell you about the workers! compensation commissioner? A. He expressed similar concerns. @. Okay. What did you tell him you'd do to help him? . Again, I listened to his concerns, I listened to other trucking companies, T listened to other manufacturing companies and other businesses of all -- all sizes and heard similar concerns as I traveled throughout the state. @. What other trucking companies, Governor? Well, actually, I met with the entire HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 ca (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) _ Motor Truck Association. S8renda Neville is their executive director. a. A. Brenda Neville? Brenda Neville. N-E-V-I-L-L-B? Well, T'm not sure how she spells her Okay. But she is the executive director of the Iowa Motor Truck Association. Q. When did you meet with them? A. I've met with them on many different occasions. I met with them during the campaign. I have met with them virtually every year that I've been governor. Most recently I -- I met with them at John Smith's residence in Q. Towa. Okay. Was that recently? smith is CRST Trucking -- I know it well. -- in Cedar Rapids. Actually, that was this past Did all of these business people that you spoke with talk about anything other than HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1. 12 13 14 15 16 ay ag 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) tl workers' compensation and the workers! compensation commissioner? A. Oh, yeah. We talked about a lot of things, in terms of things that we can do to make Iowa more competitive, things like the property tax, unemployment, other issues as well. I'm proud to say we've made progress on those issues. On -- We have passed the biggest property tax cut in Iowa history, and we have also -- because of the success we've had in bringing more business and jobs to Iowa, we've had $9 billion in capital investments in this state. @. And that's been with Mr. Godfrey as the workers' compensation commissioner; correct? A. This is because of Debi Durham's good work in attracting new business and jobs. And despite the workers' comp issues and problems, we've seen the unemployment -- unlike, workers" comp, the unemployment costs have gone down. We have an unemployment system that has different tables depending upon how high the unemployment rates are in Iowa. And so as workers' comp costs have been going up in HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) a relation to other states, our unemployment tax has gone down. And, in fact, January 1 we go to another lower tax table that will save Iowa employers $108 million a year And so when I talk to businesses, we talk about the totality of the circumstances, the good and the bad of what's going on in Towa Workers' comp is going the wrong direction, but the unemployment is going the right direction, property tax is going the right direction. we have a very great economic development dynamic leader that's doing a great job of helping us market the state. And when you look at all of those circumstances, Iowa has made progress, and we're doing better than a lot of other states, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore the one area we're going the wrong direction on and try to address that. @. There's only one area that we're going the wrong direction on, and that's workers’ comp. Is that a correct understanding? A. Well, I wouldn't say that's the only thing, but it's one of the bigger things that I've been hearing from the business community HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD (515) 288-491010 a 12 14 15 16 24 22 23 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a2 on. Okay. We've talked about the Griffin Pipe. And you indicated to me that that you've met with them on two different occasions. They - A. Actually, I have done plant tours twice. Q. Once when you were the governor before and once during this term? A. Yes. And then I met with them, along with Debi Durham, in Chicago. @. dust once? AL Yes. Q. did you ever meet A. We met. with their -- I think their parent company in Chicago, and that's when they specifically shared with us their concerns about the huge disparity between the workers' comp costs in Iowa and the plant in Virginia, which were basically comparable plants, making the same product. Q. But the laws are not comparable, are they, Governor? A. Well, they're similar, but I'm not I don't know all the details of HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a3 Virginia's workers’ comp laws. @. Well, one of the things that you indicated to me was that Griffin Pipe's complaints had to do with the two different - the Virginia and the Iowa workers’ compensation ~ A. Costs. Q ~~ costs. And did that happen just once with your meeting in Chicago? A, With Griffin? @ Yes. AL Yes. But I -~ as I said, what I heard from Griffin was similar to what T heard from a lot of other companies. Members of the Iowa Association of Business and Industry, which has over 1,400 members scattered all over the state of Iowa. They used to be the Iowa Manufacturers Association. They've expanded their membership to include more than manufacturers. But I heard from a lot of members of the Iowa Association of Business and Industry as IT traveled the state. And I've always been a very hands-on governor. [I've always visited a lot of HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 al 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a4 businesses. And in those visits I usually ask what's going well and what the challenges or problems are and if there's something we might be able to do in state government to help them to be able to grow and expand in our state. Q. Did any -- Did you receive any complaints about health insurance premiums while you were campaigning and while you've been the governor? A. Oh, yes. That's another issue that -- that has been a huge problem for a lot of businesses. Q. Have you fired anybody as a result of the health insurance premiums going up? A. We haven't fired anybody -- Q. Have you -- AL ~ with regard to this or that. Have you =~ Have you cut anybody else's pay? A. Well, with regard to reducing the pay, that is a responsibility that the legislature -- @. Governor, I want you to answer my question. A. - has given to the governor. I want you to answer my question. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) fai Have you cut anybody else's pay in state government since you have been the governor this -- for your second term? A. We have eliminated a lot of positions, and I have terminated people. @. Have you cut anyone else's pay? A. Well, first of all, I have only done what IT have been given the responsibility to do by the legislature. And that is @. Have you cut anyone else's pay? That is the question. Yes or no? You have cut other people's pay or you have not cut other people's pay? Which is it? A. We have eliminated positions, which is a lot worse than cutting somebody's pay. @. Have you cut anyone else's pay in state government? Yes or no? A. Well, first of all, there are thousands of people in state government, many people of which have seen reductions in their pay. And some of these decisions are made at different levels. Q@. I'm talking about decisions that you make at your level. A. Well -- HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 46 Q. Have you cut anyone else's pay? Yes or no? A. Well, I'm not aware of others that I have reduced -- I -- I -- As I said, 1 follow the law and do - I have a responsibility to evaluate people and to evaluate the people that are specifically in the executive branch of government at high levels of -~ of -- at high levels in the executive branch of government. And t make a decision as to what their compensation should be within a range which is set by the legislature. and the legislature determined that range to be appropriate. And the governor has discretion, after evaluating the person's performance, under the law to set that. And that's what I've done. Q. Have you cut anyone else's pay at the executive level? Anyone else over whom you have responsibility directly. AL No. Q. Did you have any complaint about auto insurance premiums going up? A. Iowa's auto insurance premiums are among the lowest in the nation. @. They're not -~ HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 qa 1s 16 7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 q (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a7 A. Most people think insurance premiums are still too high, but if you look at a comparison of Iowa's auto insurance with most other states, our auto rates tend to be relatively low. @. Are you telling me that you have not gotten any complaints about auto insurance premiums? A. I think the insurance commission gets significant complaints about that, but I can tell you I am very familiar with our auto rates in comparison to other states, and our rates are among the lowest. @. Okay. Not exactly my question. While you were campaigning for governor and while you've been the governor, have you received any complaints about auto insurance premiums? AL Sure. Q. Have you received any complaints that auto insurance premiums are increasing? A, Well, you know, I hear concerns and I listen to all kinds of different things. This doesn't happen very often. As I said, auto rates in Iows are relatively low, and we don't HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qi 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 48 get -- we don't get nearly as many complaints about that as ~~ as we have about workers’ comp. Q. And -- And health insurance premiums; correct? A. Well, health insurance has really been adversely affected by ObamaCare. And we've been doing all we can to try to make some changes to make Towa more competitive. In fact, we passed the Towa Health and Wellness Plan with the specific idea to make sure that people have some skin in the game and that -- from my experience at Des Moines University, I learned about the importance of doing health risk assessments and so people know what their own risks are and work to reduce their risks. And then also the importance of exercise and nutrition and not using tobacco products. @. Do you know what percentage of costs to business health insurance premiums are compared to workers’ compensation premiums? A. Well, I do know more about that with regard to state government, because we've just gone through a situation where our costs to the taxpayers of Iowa paid for state employees went HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) aie up $40 million for this coming year. And that's something that's got to be addressed and something that I'm very concerned about and one of the reasons why in negotiations with the state employees I've said we need to have state employees paying something for their health insurance. I€ you don't have any skin in the game, then you don't realize the impact it's going to have. And it's really hurting our state. We're one of the few states where we have a significant share -- I think over 85 percent of our employees are paying nothing towards their health insurance. TI think this is wrong, the people of Towa think it's wrong, and yet I've got to negotiate that through the collective bargaining process. We have been successful in doing that with the SPOC union, and we're -- we've implemented that with the noncontract employees. And I'm in the process of negotiating that now with the other unions. MS. CONLIN: Would you read him the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD (515) 288-491010 ql. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 50 was read.) A. I don't know the exact percentages, no. @. Have you had an opportunity.to review the statements of the judiciary with respect to workers’ compensation? A. Brenna Findley has made me aware of some of the comments that have been made by district court judges and the Court of Appeals. @. Okay. Are you aware that the Supreme Court of Iowa says, and I quote, " oxkers! compensation statutes are to be liberally construed in favor of the employee"? A. I'm not surprised that the Court has said that. @. Okay. Are you aware that the Court has also said "The legislature enacted the workers’ compensation statutes primarily for the benefit of the worker and the worker's dependents; therefore, we apply the statute broadly and liberally in keeping with the humanitarian objective of the statute. We will not defeat the statute's beneficent purpose by reading something into it that is not there or by a narrow and strained construction"? Are you HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 28 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a A, That's a statement basically from the Supreme Court. Q. Yes. A. I'm not going to dispute that. Q. All right. The -- The workers! compensation commission and the commissioners and the deputies are all bound by judicial precedent; correct? A. Yes. And you are also bound by judicial precedent; correct? Decisions of the Supreme Court are the law of the land. And I've always respected that. Q. Okay. The courts have also said “Our courts have long held the Workers! Compensation Act was drafted for the benefit of injured workers and should be liberally construed to further that objective. This policy has been in place since Pierce,” P-I-B-R-C-E, "versus Bekins," B-E-K-I-N-S, "Van and Storage Company decision in 1919." Are you familiar with that interpretation of the Towa Supreme Court? A, Well, I know the Supreme Court has said HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ut 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a 22 23 24 25 ca (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 82 a lot of things over the years, and I'm not going to dispute things that the Supreme Court has said or that you have read directly from. Q. All right. And you do recognize that the commissioner of the workers’ compensation commission and -- and his deputies are bound, as you are, by the Supreme Court's pronouncements with respect to the interpretation of the workers’ compensation law; correct? AL Yes. @. When you -- Before you became the governor you sent a number of letters to people with respect to seeking their resignation; right? A. Yes. We -- We did as previous governors have done. Basically sent out a form letter asking people to resign and then with the intention of making a decision of whether to accept the resignation or not. @. Did you send such letters to people who had an appointment for a term of years? AL Yes. (Exhibit 57 was marked for identification Q. All right. Exhibit 57 is the letter HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 un 12 13 14 4s 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 53 dated December 3rd, 2010, that you sent to Mr. Godfrey; correct? Yes. Q. Did anyone in the executive branch who was a gubernatorial appointment, whether for a term of years or at will, not get such a letter? I think there may have been a couple that we missed, but we sent this to, you know, the people that were the top administrators within state government, whether they had a term for years or -~ or were department heads that served at the pleasure of the governor. This is similar to what Governor Vilsack and Governor Culver did as well. I really didn't ask you that. How many such letters did you send out? A. I think there were probably about 30. Q. How is Chris Godfrey a key decision-maker? A. Well, workers' comp is one of the important responsibilities of the executive branch of state government. Q. Is he a member of the administration? AL Yes. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 Ww 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 an 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 54 Q. Is he a member of your administration? A. Yes. @ He responded to you on December 6th. I'm marking as Exhibit 58 his letter back to you. (Exhibit 58 was marked for identification.) Q. Did you receive that letter? A. Yes. @. All right. When you received the letter, what did you do with it? A. Well, we received -- we had a number of people that we asked to resign that did resign, and we had a few that chose not to resign. And we scheduled meetings with those that chose not to resign. @. As I understand it, there were three people who had terms of years or who didn't want to resign for one reason or another; correct? A. Well, I know that, for instance, Mr. Gronstal, who was the head of -- of banking, had a term for years and did resign. 1 know that Mr. Larson and David Neil chose not to. And I met with Godfrey and Larson and Neil, and we tried to get a meeting with HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa. 12 13 14 15 16 a 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) na Mr. Forney, who was in charge of the credit union =~ in charge of credit unions, and he was not available. Q. Did you ever meet with him? A. We -- We eventually got him to resign. What we found out with Mr. Forney was that he was in Florida. And then we found out later, several months into office, that -- And he was somebody that I had originally appointed. Q. That's what I thought. A. But we found out that he was absent from his duties on a number of occasions. Q. Essentially retired in Florida, as 1 recall A. Well, he retired on the job and wasn't there and wasn't performing as we felt he should. And so when we brought this to his attention and that we felt that he had violated his responsibilities, he eventually agreed to resign. Q. Did you have a meeting with him? A. No, we never ~~ I didn't have a meeting with him, I think some of my staff eventually met with him, but the meeting we tried to get in December he was unavailable for. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 56 Q. All right. Were you -- At the time that you sent out Exhibit 57, were you aware that Mr. Godfrey had, in fact, been appointed for a term of years and confirmed by the Iowa Senate? A. Yes. And that was true of the others as well. So we sent this letter, which, as I said, is kind of standard operating procedure. New governors do this. It's frankly recommended by the National Governors Association to put your own team in place and -- and people that you feel confident share your commitment and philosophy to achieve the goals that you want. And so that's why we did that. And in each instance we have the -- we dealt with the individual's circumstances. And, you know, I'll be glad to talk about the other ones if you want me to as well, but we did -- and David Neil, for instance -~ Q. Governor, I'm going to ask you questions about each of the others. A. Okay. @. If you would listen carefully to my HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 aL 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) at question and provide an answer rather than the talking points, T would be very grateful, because otherwise there is no possibility that we will finish today. A. Well, I'll do my very best to answer the questions directly. MS. CONLIN: Why don't we change tapes now. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 1 at 10:18 a.m. {A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: on the record beginning Tape 2 at 10:28 a.m. (Exhibit 59 was marked for identification.} A. Ié you ~~ If you don't mind, I would like to say that the name that I wasn't able to come up with is Bob von Wolffradt. @. oh, yes. A. And sometimes they call him Bob VW. But he's the IT director for the state, and he's done a very fine job. Q. Okay. A So I wanted to make sure that -- and —- and I think you can understand why -- and T HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 44 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) oa guess that's with two Fs, von Wolffradt, so -~ for what it's worth. It's a very unusual name, as I mentioned before. @. Exhibit 59, which I've just put in front of you, Governor, is a press release, attached to which there are three letters. The press release is done by your incoming chief of staff; correct? AL Yes. @. Mr. Boeyink? A. Well, he was the campaign manager, and then he became the chief of staff when I took office. @. Okay. Well, he is referred to in this press release from the governor's -~ from the governor-elect's office as "incoming chief of staff for Governor-Blect Terry Branstad today released the names of three individuals who specifically refused Governor Branstad's request to submit their resignations by December 15th"; correct? Do you see where I'm reading, right at the top? A. Yes. MR. LaMARCA: Just -- Just for HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 14 as 16 1 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) s9 point of clarification, Ms. Conlin, I think you said that this was sent to the press. I believe the record is that this is just a draft and it was never sent to the press. MS. CONLIN: I don't -- 1 don't -- What makes you think that? MR. LaMARCA: Well, that's -- that's my understanding. That's what I'm advised about this document. So I'm not aware that it ever went to the press. If you are, of course, that's ~~ you can establish that. But to my knowledge, it did not. MS. CONLIN: All right. @. You mention -- or he mentions ~~ First of all, Governor, do you know whether or not Mr. Boeyink did, in fact, announce to the press the names of the three people who refused to submit the requested resignation? AL Mo. Q. He did not? A. I'm not aware that he did. Q. Okay. And -- And that -~ that the three are Larson, Neil, and Godfrey; correct? A. Yes And Larson -- HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ha A. And he -- I guess what I would point out is that after the campaign he was chosen to become the chief of staff, but he did not become the chief of staff, of course, until I was inaugurated. @. Okay. And this document that is Exhibit 59 I've been informed by your ~~ by your lawyer is, in fact, a draft that was not sent to the press. Is that your understanding? A. Yes. I don't remember that there was anything done in the press with regard to this. Q. Okay. Well, attached -- A. We did have meetings with each of these individuals later in the month of December. @. Attached to this release are three letters to Mr. Larson, Mr. Neil, and Mr. Godfrey. Did those letters go out? AL ves. @. All right. The one to Mr. Godfrey, which bears Bates stamp CONFIDENTIAL60, dated December 21 was actually sent to Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Well, I think -- Yes, I ~~ And each of these individuals I was informed had not -~ had chosen not to resign, and so meetings were HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 61 scheduled with them. @. Okay. My question, however, was did you send a copy of Sxhibit 59, page 60, to Mr. Godfrey? A. I didn't. @. Did anyone on your behalf send such a letter to Mr. Godfrey? A, [assume that -- that Mr. Boeyink did. Q. Okay. A. Or he directed someone to. @. All right. Among the things that Mr. Boeyink is quoted as saying in this draft press release is "We will continue to explore other options that ensure Governor Branstad has members of his team fulfilling these duties moving forward." Is that a correct statement by Mr. Boeyink? A. As I said, he at my direction then put together meetings with each of these individuals. Q. Okay. My question, however, is is it correct that you as governor would continue to explore other options that ensure that you have members of your team fulfilling these duties HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LD. (515) 288-491020 aL 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 62 moving forward? A. Well, Z only know what I know. And what I know is that the lieutenant governor and I and Jeff Boeyink met with all three of these individuals and had a very frank discussion. @. Okay. I understand that, Governor, and we're going to talk about that But my guestion to you at this moment is is it right that you were going to explore other options with respect to these individuals so you could have your own team in place? A. Well, I'm not sure what you -- what he meant by “exploring other options The other option that I guess I'm aware of is that we would have a meeting with them and - and discuss with them why that, they decided not te resign and -- and -- and to share with them our concerns and to hear their concerns. Q. Okay. What other options were you going to explore besides the meeting, if any? A. Well, that is the other option that - that we felt was appropriate. Okay. In the letter that you sent to HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 63 Mr. Godfrey you also say "Please be assured I am exploring all available options for ensuring those doing work on behalf of my administration have my full confidence and your decision to temporarily deny me this opportunity regarding your current position clearly indicates the need for a change." What did you mean by that? A, Well, I had just gone through a campaign, and I'd shared with the people of Iowa my vision and my goals to change the direction of the state. We were losing jobs. We had the highest unemployment in 25 years. And I felt that we needed to have a direct focus on economic development and change kind of the gotcha attitude that I saw in some of the departments and agencies in state government, and I was committed to do everything 1 could to try to really make that change and -- and to put together a team that would support that. Q. You tell Chris "I am exploring all available options for ensuring those doing work on behalf of my administration have my full confidence.” HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 6a What options were you exploring? A. Well, we knew we had to operate within the law and that -- we thought the best thing to do would be to meet personally with each of these individuals and share with them our concerns and also to hear their perspective. And we did have that meeting with Mr. Godfrey, as we did with the other individuals. @. You go on to say "your decision to temporarily deny me this opportunity." What did you mean by that? A. Well, we meant that we hoped to meet with him and -- and see if there was a chance that he would reconsider the decision not to resign. @. Okay. A, And we did at that meeting actually ask him again if he would resign. @. You go on to say the fact that he wants to temporarily deny you the opportunity to have your own people in place indicates that he needs to go: right? That's what you say in the letter? A. Well, it was our desire. We knew that HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 65 it was voluntary, but it was our desire that he voluntarily resign. @. But what you say here is the fact that he is not voluntarily resigning indicates to you that he -- that he needs to gos right? A. No. What we wanted to do is have the face-to-face meeting with him and with the other individuals and to share our concerns and then to also hear his perspective. And we then subsequently had that meeting. Q. Okay. It says “and your decision to temporarily deny me this opportunity regarding your current position clearly indicates the need for a change." Does it indicate the need for a change with respect to the workers’ compensation commissioner? That was our perspective, but we felt a meeting would give us an opportunity to hear his perspective as well. And that's the reason why we asked for the personal face-to-face meeting. Did you have in mind any other options that you could do if he refused to resign when you had the meeting with him on December 297 A. First of all, each of these positions HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 66 is unique and different and has -- and so in each case we ~~ we look at what legally we have the authority to do under the law. And so we had our goals and desires, and we also recognized our responsibility under the law to abide by and -~ and meet our obligations there. And -- And I've always taken that very seriously. @. On December 29th, when you had these meetings, did you have in mind any other options in terms of Chris Godfrey and if he refused to resign? A. Well, we wanted to find out whether he would really -- how he would respond to the concerns that we had. And then we also wanted to hear his perspective and any changes that he might be willing to make to try to meet the goals that we had. Well, he said he would be perfectly willing to support your goals insofar as they did not conflict with his statutory duties; correct? A, We had a very frank meeting. In that meeting I shared with him some of the concerns that we had heard from employers and from people HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 67 around the state of Iowa, from attorneys representing people that -- that are self-insured. We had heard concerns that he had been an advocate for eliminating the employer choice of doctor, which is one of the important provisions in the Towa statute that has helped control costs over the years. And we confronted him with that. Q. What did he say? A. He denied it. @. Do you know whether or not that's true? A. We know that there's documentation that he had advocated for that, yes. Q. When -- When was that? A. ‘That information was, I think, supplied to us by the Iowa Association of Business and Industry. @. Was that long before he became the workers! compensation commissioner? A. I think it was before he became workers’ comp commissioner. @. And had he since becoming the workers’ compensation commissioner publicly changed his position on employer choice? A. Not to my knowledge. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910qa 12 13 14 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 68 @. Did you ask him that? AL Well =~ @. You didn't ask him that, did you? A. No. We -~ We asked him his -- his position on that, and he denied that he supported changing the law. @. Okay. A. It's -- It's an area that I feel strongly about and that I think has been effective in Towa at controlling costs. Q@. And so does he; right? A, It was my understanding that -~ obviously the position that he had taken publicly on this was that he supported changing it. Now, as the commissioner, I think -- I don't know -- you know, I don't know that he'd taken a position on that subsequently, but I knew that was the position he took previously. Okay. And -~- And he did not tell you that he, in fact, supported employee choice, or he did tell you that? Well -- @. Employer choice. I'm sorry. Let me -~ HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 a4 15 16 VW 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 69 A. My understanding was that -- you know, I confronted him with the question on employer choice, and -- and he basically denied that he supported changing that from the employer choice. @. Okay. And you didn’t believe him? You thought he was lying to you? A. Based on the information that we had received, we felt that was inconsistent with - with what we had heard from others. Q. Okay. Well, what information exactly were you relying on? A letter from Mr. Gilliland, perhaps? A. We received information from several employers throughout the state of Towa, many of them members of the Association of Business and Industry, and from from others. Q. On employer's choice? AL On - Well, on several issues involving workers’ comp. I remember specifically the meeting that we had with these -- the group that represents the self -- the self-insured. and Lance Horbach -~ Lance Horbach, who was a state representative that I knew very well, was also present at that meeting. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a @. And you discussed employer's choice? A. Yes, we discussed that. We discussed a number of other issues that impact employers in terms of their competitiveness, in terms of their costs @. Okay. Employer's choice is the law of the state of Iowa and it has been for some long period of time; correct? A. It has. And I vetoed a bill that would have repealed it when I was governor before. Q. Well, Chris Godfrey was not the workers’ compensation commissioner at that time; correct? . No. Q. What -- Well, let's continue discussing the -- the options that you felt you had at the meeting that you had with Mr. Gedfrey on December 29. What did you determine the legal options that you had if he refused to design ~~ to resign? A. Well, actually, there was no other legal option. I mean, he could either voluntarily resign or we had no other option. Q. All right. How - Before Before you HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) aa met with Mr. Godfrey -- Let me show you Exhibit 60. (Bxhibit 60 was marked for identification.) Q. Do you recognize that document? A. T don't recognize the document 2 Do you recognize whose handwriting that is? A, It is not mine. Q. Well, is it -- is it Brenna's? Ts it Jeff's? Is it Tim's? A I don't know. I don't really know their handwriting. Okay. Can you read it? Well, I can read it, yes. Okay. Because T -~ Well, some of it's not easy to read. No. I agree. But they're somebody's notes here with regard to the meetings we had with these individuals. Q. Exhibit Okay. So you think that this document, 60, was made during the meetings that you had? Is that a correct understanding? A Well, it obviously -- there were three people that we interviewed with -- These are the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aa 12 13 14 4s 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ca (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 72 individuals that we'd asked to resign that chose not to, and we had individual meetings with each of them. This appears to be somebody's notes with regard to that. Q. Okay A. I -~ I noticed, for instance ~~ Yeah. It says here specifically with David Neil that we already had indicated that we wanted to name Michael Mauro, who was a prominent Democrat and had been the secretary of state and had lost the election, to be the new labor commissioner. And so that was something that -- I had already called Michael Mauro after the election, because he had treated us very fairly as commissioner of elections, and I expressed my interest in asking him to be part of our administration. And so what David Neil did at that meeting is said that his term was going to be ending at the end of April and that he would like to stay on until the end of April and that he would be willing to work during that interim period and mentor and work with == with Michael Mauro to learn the responsibilities of that office so we could have a smooth transition. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 3 And that's exactly what we did, and it worked out very well. So the meeting was ~- with Davia Neil was I thought very satisfactory. 1 thought what he requested was very reasonable. And he agreed. And ~~ And Michael Mauro then went to work for the state and eventually became the labor commissioner at the end of April. @. Did you meet in the order in which these people appear on Exhibit 60? A. I don't remember. I do remember we met with all three. And I do have a recollection of each of the meetings and -- and what happened at each of those meetings. Q. Did you take notes? A. 1 didn't personally take notes. Q. Who did take notes? A. Well, I don't know. Obviously this sheet would indicate somebody was in the meeting that took notes. And I ~ I think -- My recollection is Lieutenant Governor Reynolds and myself and Jeff Boeyink were the three that were in the meeting. So I could assume -- Well, I don't want to assume anything, but we were the three that were in the meeting. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 4 @. All right. How long -- A. This is not my handwriting. Q. Okay. How long did each meeting last? A. Well, I think an hour, something like that. Q. All right. And Mr. Larson, there are several -~ there are notes -- A. Yes. Q. ~~ at the -~ Okay. First of all, let me ask you this. Do you know who prepared the typewritten part of Exhibit 60? A. Mo, T don't. @. All right. And it basically says -- each of these says the title of the person, when his or -- his term expires, and provides some -- A. Right. Q ~~ other options. And it indicates that -~ Stephen Larson, the option that you provide to him is offering him his old position or an employment guarantee in return for his resignation. what employment -- Do you know what his old position was? Yeah. I think he came from the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 15 treasurer's office. Q. Okay. A, And he indicated that he did not want to leave state government. He was willing to resign, but he would like to be able to go back either to the treasurer's office or some other position in state government. But he also shared with us at that meeting, and we were quite impressed, of the changes that he'd made since becoming the dixector of the Alcoholic Beverages Division. The previous director had done many inappropriate things and not -- had violated the law, and -- and there was an audit that had pointed out significant problems and inappropriate things that were being done And Mr. Larson shared with us changes that he had made and improvements that he had made and that he had addressed the issues that the auditor had raised. And so we were impressed with him and with the work that he had done. And then we verified with David Vaudt, the state auditor, what he told us to be correct and accurate. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 18 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 76 And I then was very satisfied to have him stay on. And indeed, I recently reappointed him in 2014 to this position @. Okay. I want to focus on offering him his old position or an employment guarantee, because I'm not exactly sure what an employment guarantee means. Do you mean a guarantee of, employment within state government? A. Well, this is -- And again, my understanding is that he had indicated that he didn't want to leave state government and there might be some other position within state government that he'd be willing - so he's saying "I don't feel that I absolutely have to stay in this position, I'm willing to resign this, but I would like to be considered for another position, another more comparable comparable position in state government. Is there something -- if there might be something available." So he was very cooperative. He was very willing to -- to consider a change. But after reviewing the accomplishments that he had made since -- since becoming the director of the Alcoholic Beverages Division -- and he did HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) m7 inherit a mess, and he had really straightened things out and -- and addressed the issues of the audit. And - And not only what he said, but it was verified by David Vaudt, the state auditor. We felt that it was appropriate to ask him to stay on. And we did. So as a result of the meeting with him, we changed our mind and said "we're not asking you to leave. We're satisfied with what you've done." We -- We didn't say that at the meeting. We waited until we had verified it with the auditor. But sometime later we got back to him and ~~ and said that "We want to continue to work with you, and we feel that you're addressing the issues and concerns that we have.” @. All right. And the meeting with Mr. Godfrey, what can you read -~ does the note over at the left side say "Horbach"? And then I can't read whether the next word is "word" or "work." A. I don't know. Again, this is not my writing. I assume it's one of two other people. It's - It's either the lieutenant governor or - or Jeff Boeyink. But, you know, I HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 1s 16 a 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 78 think you ~~ and you're going to be deposing both of them, so you'll get a chance to ask them that question. But Horbach, you know, as I pointed out earlier, is a state representative from Tama who was I think a leader on that committee, @ Republican leader on the labor committee in the Towa House of Representatives. Q. What does it say on the right side? What do you think? A, Well, it says January 2006. Q. All right. A It says -- I'm not sure what the ~~ like I say, I'm not -- I don't know that I can -- there's something about with reimbursement policy and -- Q. "Problems with reimbursement & policy, too," T-0-0, "many steps." Would that be it? A. It could be. Q. Okay. A. It looks like it could be, but again, as I said, it's not my writing, and I'm not 100 percent sure. @. All right. And up above that it says -- I don't -~ I can't read the first word. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 79 Can you? MR. LaMARCA: I'm sorry. Up above where? MS. CONLIN: Up above the "Problems with reimbursement « policy" in handwriting on the right side of the page with respect to Mr. Godfrey. @. IT can =- 1 think what -~ Aside from the first word, I think that the remaining part of the phrase is "to review appeals." Is that what it looks like to you? AL Yeah. @. Okay. Can you connect what you recall of the meeting to what these notes say? A. Well, the first typed area says "Workers' Comp Commissioner." That was the position for which we were discussing with Mr. Godfrey. The term expires April of 2015. I think that's self-explanatory. “There are concerns about previous decisions that could be interpreted by employers as impediments to business development and growth." You and I have already discussed that. This is a concern that we'd heard from HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 80 employers all over the state of Iowa, from manufacturers, from food processors, from -- from trucking companies, from others, from attorneys that represent those that are self-insured. So that certainly -- And that we had gotten certain information from ABI and from their members. And we also wanted to make sure that Mr. Godfrey knew what our goals were, our goals of creating 200,000 jobs, raising family incomes by 25 percent, reducing the size and cost of government by 15 percent, and our goal to be number one in education. And -- And that's a clear and consistent message we've had with everybody that's a part of this administration. @. Did you renew your request for his resignation? A. Yes. Q. He said no again? A. Yes. Did he explain why he felt he should not resign? A. Well, he basically denied and I would say was pretty defensive about the concerns that HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 4 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a1 had been expressed by many people throughout the state and basically said that he was entitled to serve out the -- his entire term. Q. Are you under the impression that he served in his private capacity as an attorney only for claimants? A. I think the -- I don't know about that. Q. Did you ever look at his resume? AL No. @. Did you ever talk with anyone from ‘Tysons? A. I talked -- I've -~ I think Tyson was one of the companies. In fact, Tyson was one -- one of the I think a gentleman from Tyson is one of the people that called the meeting that we went to of the self-insureds that had great concerns about the direction that workers' comp was going. And so that was a gentleman from Tyson, I believe, that actually chaired that meeting or that communicated with Bonnie Hall, who was scheduling my time at that time for the meeting that we attended during the campaign with the self-insured businesses. Q. What did you know about Mr. Godfrey's HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 45 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 82 background when you were talking to him on December 29th? Did you know that -- A. I knew that he had worked previously for Tyson. I think somebody had told me that. I -- I knew that he was the workers’ comp commissioner. I knew that I'd heard a number of concerns about him from the business community throughout the state and companies of all sizes and -- and also from attorneys. Q. Okay. I'm asking you about what you knew about his background, about Mr. Godfrey's background prior to the time that he became workers' compensation commissioner. A. Well, I don't know that I can recall all the specifics of that. I -- But I do. know that he was the workers’ compensation commissioner and that he had a legal background Q. | Okay. Did you know that he had ~~ You knew -- You indicated that you knew that he had been an attorney for Tysons; correct? A. Yes, I was informed of that. Q. Do you know that he was Tyson's workers' comp attorney? A, I don't specifically recall. @. Do you know that he worked for a HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 83 defense law firm after he stopped working for Tysons? A. 1 didn't know -- I don't know that I knew all these details. @. Well, your -- did you believe him to be a -- if I may quote, a rabid claimants’ attorney? A. Well, I just knew that I'd heard from a lot of people that they felt that he was biased against the employers and that the workers' comp commissioner needs to be somebody that's going to be fair and objective to all parties. @. okay. And -- And what did you do to check on the things that you were being told? A, Well, I listened to a lot of people, and I travel all over the state of Towa. Q. Not my question, Governor. What did you do to check to see whether or not what you say you were being told was, in fact, factual? A. Well, actually I asked my legal counsel, Brenna Findley, to do some background. And =~ When did she do that? When did you ask her, and when did she do that? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) os A. Well, T don't recall exactly, but I know that she did. And she briefed me on -- And basically her research confirmed what I was hearing as I traveled the state from all kinds of people. Q. Did she do that -- A. And =~ Q. I'm sorry. Did she do that research for you before December 29th? A. I don't -- I don't recall if -- I think most of this was done after December 29th, between December 29th and July. Q. Okay. And she prepared some document for you with respect to A. No, not -- She just briefed me on this information that she had discovered, that she was aware of with regard to court decisions that had been made by district court judges and the Court of Appeals and some of the statements they had made on the record about the fact that they felt that Mr. Godfrey had really in some cases not followed the law or had become really more of a -- an advocate for the -~ the claimant as opposed to being an objective decision-maker. Q Did Did she brief you on specific HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 15 16 wy 18 a9 20 2a 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 85 cases? AL Yes. @. Okay. So she was briefing you froma document she prepared; correct? A. Well, I don't know. I just know that she briefed me and - and told me about specific cases, some of which involved things that didn't even happen at the workplace and didn't happen during working hours. That seemed pretty bizarre that somebody would get workers' comp for such things as -- while shopping for clothes for work on nonworking hours nowhere near the premises or that somebody that was working out at a -~ ina wellness center that was provided by a company because they wanted to join some club that required you to press 300 pounds injured themselves while doing that, that the employer would get stuck with those costs when the employer merely provided that as a convenience for its employees in -- in the community. And it would be something that I felt would be damaging and detrimental to our goals to attract business and companies to Iowa or for those companies to provide those kind of HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20, 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 86 amenities to their employees. When you ~- You've mentioned two cases to me. Well, there are more than two cases. I -- I think maybe a half a dozen or so that she made me aware of. Q. Let's talk about the two that you mentioned. Do you know whether or not those cases were consistent with pre-existing precedent? Well, I just basically know that they seemed pretty bizarre and -- and they confirmed what I'd been hearing from employers about the inconsistencies and about the fact they didn't feel they were being treated fairly and that this was driving up the costs of workers' comp Would you expect that in those two cases and the others that she mentioned that -- that the employer would appeal the decisions? or did they appeal the decisions? Do you know? Well, at least one of these was a case that was a Court of Appeals. And another one -~ Q. The two cases that you mentioned, one of those went to the Court of Appeals? A. Well, I think some were district court HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) oe judges and some were Court of Appeals. And one of them was a concurring opinion that Rosemary Sackett had written. And Rosemary Sackett is a was at that time the chief judge of the Court of Appeals. She's a woman that I had appointed to the Court of Appeals. By the way, I've appointed a number of women to key positions in my administration and on the Court of Appeals and on the Supreme Court. Q. The question, however, was about the two decisions that you mentioned and whether or not those cases were appealed to the district court or to the Court of Appeals, if you know. A. Well -- Well, as I said, Brenna basically briefed me with and gave me information about not only those cases but some others that confirmed what I had been hearing during the campaign and during the first six months that I was governor from various people throughout the state, businesses of all sizes, and attorneys that were involved in the workers’ comp system. @. Okay. My question, however, has to do with the two cases you mentioned and whether or HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 uw 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 88 not they were appealed. Do you know whether or not they were appealed? If they were outside of the realm of what had been done in the past, wouldn't you expect that they would be appealed? A. Well, they were appealed. @. Okay. A. And -- And these were decisions -- First, the workers' comp commission decision can be appealed to the district court. @. And I'm asking you if they were, the two that you mentioned. A. The -- Well, these were district court judges or Court of Appeals judges. @. Okay. So you A. That ~~ So the information that Brenna shared with me came from decisions made by either the district court or the Court of Appeals. @. Okay. So all of the cases, including the two that you mentioned, were cases that the district -- that the workers' compensation commission had decided in one way and the district court or the Court of Appeals reversed. Is that a correct understanding? A. That's my understanding. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 qa 15 16 47 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 89 Q. All right. We were talking about the meeting itself on December 29th. A. Right. @. Do you recall that Mr. Godfrey explained to you that he had given up his private law practice and took the oath of office for a full term? A. Well, everybody that ~~ that goes to work for the government in a full-time capacity has to do that. Not my question. MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) Well, I don't specifically recall that, but I wouldn't doubt that he said that. Q. Do you -- Do you recall that he explained to you that for him to leave would -- would have large financial costs -- A. Well -- Q. == for him? A. ~~ actually, I know that people that have left the workers’ comp commission in the past have gotten private sector opportunities. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 44 15 16 a 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 2s eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ao And having been workers’ comp commissioner, I think it would have been a great opportunity for him to probably be able to earn even more and have greater opportunities. And that's what we thought made sense for him to do. But obviously it's his personal decision, but that's what's happened with previous workers’ comp commissioners. They've been able to get good opportunities in the private sector. @. Okay. MS..CONLIN: Would you read the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. Actually, as I said -- Q. Did he explain it to you or not? Did he say that to you or not? A. I don't recall that he said that. Q. All right. A. But if he did, I’m sure that I would have replied that there are great opportunities in the private sector and that you may be able to do -- And that's exactly the way T look at it. I always look at it -~ and oftentimes HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 qa 15 16 a7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 91 people that have worked for me in different capacities get opportunities to go to the private sector or some other place and oftentimes in the private sector make a lot more money than they do in state government. @. But you do not recall that he told you that for him to leave at the time -- in December of 2010 would have had large financial costs for him. Is that a correct understanding? Tedon't recall that, but if he did bring that up, I'm sure my response would be that there are great opportunities in the private sector and that you ought to take a look at that. Q. But you didn't ~~ But you don't recall him saying that to you? I don't have a recollection of that, no Do you recall -- Did -~ were you aware that Mr. Godfrey had been a member of ABI? No. Q. Were you aware that he had represented defendants, respondents in the workers’ comp lingo, and claimants at almost exactly the same rate as a ~~ when he was in the private sector? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, ITD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 92 AL No. Q. Were you aware that, in fact, he represented more respondents than he represented claimants? A. No. @. Do you know what the -- the ratio of his decisions were as workers! compensation commissioner in- terms of defendants and claimants? No. Q@. Did you ever check on that or ask anyone to do so for you? A. No. Q. Mr. Godfrey was confirmed by the Towa Senate on two separate occasions. Do you know whether or not ABI took a position on his confirmation on either occasion? A. I do not. Do you know whether or not in 2009 he was confirmed unanimously? I understand that that is the case. Q@. Okay. fiow did you determine that the complaints that you were receiving were valid? A. Well, as I've explained, I heard this from numerous sources, companies large and small HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 a4 1s 16 17 18 1g 20 22 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 93 throughout the state. And then Brenna Findley briefed me on some of the statements that judges had said on the record that were pretty clear that the judges -- district court judges and members of the Court of Appeals felt that what he had done was outside the law or that he had really not remained a neutral but instead had taken an advocacy position Q. In fact, you said of Mr. Godfrey that courts, plural, had said of Mr. Godfrey directly that he was biased against employers; correct? A. Yes. All right. Is that still your position? Courts have said of Mr. Godfrey that he is biased against employers? A. Yes, based on the information that Brenna Findley supplied to me about statements that were made by district court judges and Court of Appeals judges. @. All right. And you did nothing to check on whether or not Ms. Findley was telling you something that was true or false; right? A. Well, I trust my legal counsel to give me accurate and correct information. Q. You explained to him in this meeting, HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a as I understand it, what your goals were. And you've repeated them to me several times, the 200,000 jobs, increasing take-home pay and cut the cost of government and make Towa number one in education, Does ~ Does the Towa workers' compensation commissioner have any impact on education policy? A. No. I think the workers' comp commissioner's biggest impact has to do with our goal to create jobs and raise family incomes. But also, we were expecting all of state government to help us -- We inherited a big financial mess. The state was spending more than it was taking in. The previous governor had done a 10 percent across-the-board cut. We needed to do @ lot to make state government smaller, more efficient, more accountable. So on three of the four we felt that the workers' comp commissioner could have some influence. @. During your campaign individuals raised objections who -- who indicated that the climate created by the Iowa workers’ compensation commissioner was an obstacle preventing the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qi 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 95 creation of jobs. Is that a correct statement? A. Yes. Q. Okay. How did the workers’ compensation commissioner create a climate that was an obstacle preventing the creation of jobs? A. Well, according to the Oregon workers! comp commission comparison that they do on a regular basis between the costs of doing business and workers' comp costs in the various states, the costs for workers’ comp insurance, Towa went from two - in 2006 from the 7th lowest to being the 28th lowest. @. And did that have anything - A. Of the 50 states, which means we're above average. And this all happened while Mr. Godfrey was the workers’ comp commissioner. Q. Did that have anything to do with the legislative changes made in the other states, or do you know? A, Well, 1 don't know. @. Okay. A, I just know that this is an objective comparison that's done by the state of Oregon and it's one that businesses rely on. And it is concerning to me that -- And that confirmed the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 96 same thing that we had heard anecdotally from employers all throughout the state. And it was also confirmed by what the judges had said in these court cases. @. Okay. You also say that Mr. Godfrey was himself responsible for the commission developing an antibusiness bias or climate, damaging Iowa's competitive advantage over other states related to his decision-making -- or related to the decision-making process of potential new employers; correct? MR. LaMARCA: Excuse me. Just for the record, where are you quoting from? MS. CONLIN: I'm not necessarily quoting anything. . I'm asking if he said that. MR. LaMARCA: I thought you said you've said this or you've stated this. MS. CONLIN: Yes. Yes. Did -- Did you say that? Let me -- Do you -~ Do you want it read back? A. Well, I guess first of all, basically, what I said is what I heard, as I've told you many times, from employers throughout the state of Iowa. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 97 And I know that the commissioner of workers’ comp appoints, is -- and oversees the deputies. And so this is the lead person in workers! comp. And as governor, .I have the responsibility to look at the entire picture, And I wanted to make sure we're doing everything we can to grow the economy, bring good business -- jobs to the state of Towa. And we want to do everything we can to ~~ The state was going in the wrong direction. The costs were going up, and Iowa was becoming less competitive, and we wanted to change that. And we worked very hard to do that. And we've made great progress in doing that, but workers’ comp is still going in the wrong direction. Q. It is still going in the wrong direction? That's what you think? A. According to the Oregon study. Q. It's going in the wrong direction today? A. That -- The workers’ comp under Mr. Godfrey's leadership went from 7th lowest to 28th. I call that going in the wrong HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 98 direction. Q. In 2014 did workers’ compensation premiums in the state of Towa go up or down? A. What's more important is -- MS..CONLIN: Would you read the question back? A, == how do we compare to other states. MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back to him? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. I don't know specifically. And I think it depends upon individual companies as to whether premiums went up or down. But I do know that the trend is in the wrong direction. And we are competing with other states to attract business and jobs. I know that Griffin decided to close a plant in Iowa rather than in the state of Virginia. T know that there are many other instances where I've heard from businesses about their concerns about workers’ comp costs going up for them and being less competitive. @. And you -- And you blame all of that on Commissioner Godfrey; correct? All of it? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 as 16 17 18 19 20 aa 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 99 A, Well, no. Not totally. @. Oh, well, good. A, But he is the person that's in charge. He is the commissioner that oversees workers! compensation So there's other factors, but certainly his leadership of that important area of state government is a critical factor. Do you know whether or not workers compensation premiums nationally in the year 2014 went up or down? A T do not. @. Do you know whether workers* compensation premiums in the year 2015 are going up or down in the state of Iowa? A. I think that's something that's really overseen by the insurance commissioner. @. Right. The insurance commissioner, not Chris Godfrey, sets insurance premiums; correct? A. Right. But those are based on costs. So the insurance commissioner -- you know, he really doesn't have a lot of control over it, unlike the workers’ comp commissioner. Because the workers’ comp commissioner decides what kind HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LUD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 100 of awards are going to be given. And what kind of awards are given determines what the costs are going to be for businesses. And then the insurance companies basically to underwrite those costs and the uncertainties that are caused by decisions made by the workers’ comp commissioner and his deputies, they then price it. 2. The workers’ compensation commissioner is bound by the law; correct? A There's a lot of discretion that's available to the workers‘ comp commissioner under the law Q And what you seek is someone who will just -- who will use that discretion in favor of Iowa businesses; correct? A. No. I want somebody who will be fair. Q. And you think A. I want a commissioner that's going to be fair to both claimants and to employers. Q. You've given me a number of anecdotal pieces of information. Do you have any statistics or other proof aside from the - the NCCI data that you've given me that indicate that Chris Godfrey was in any sense unfair to HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 44 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ca (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 101 employers? A, We have what we've heard from the employers. We've had what the judges have said. We have the fact that in relation to other states Iowa has gone from being one of the lowest cost states in the country te now being in the middle or even above average. Q@. Okay. But ~~ But the -~ And all of what you've just told me you say was somehow the responsibility of the workers’ compensation commissioner. Is that a correct understanding? A. Wo, that's not. I have never said that. I've said that the workers’ comp commissioner has significant discretion and the decisions made by the commissioner do impact the costs. Q. What are = A I'm not saying it's the sole thing, but it is certainly a major factor. Q. what other factors are there in the establishing of workers' compensation premiums? A, Well, I'm not -- I'm not going to -~ I don't know that I know all of the factors that go into that. Q. Any? Any other factors? De you know HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 1s 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 102 any other factors that go into these decisions? AL No. T - I know the state laws have some impact on that. And that's the reason why I feel so strongly about keeping the costs under control and -- and where employer choice is critically important, employer choice of doctor. @. And you think he lied to you about his position ‘on that. Is that a correct understanding? A. Well, 1 I was told that -- Q. Wait a minute, Governor. My question to you is do you think when Chris Godfrey said that he supported employer's choice that he was lying to you? A. At the time, yes. @. All right. And what else - Let's = Let's go back to the meeting of December 29th. Is -- Well, let's -- let's first deal with these factors. The -- Is -- Is there a premium -- a workers’ compensation premium tax on business? A. Well, that is something that's handled by the insurance commissioner. @. But there's a tax on premiums; correct? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 a4 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 103 A. Well, there -- there is an insurance premium tax in the state of Iowa. @. Okay. Have -~ A. On all insurance. @. Have you ever called for that to be abolished? A. We have dealt with insurance premium tax, and we have, for instance, in some instances reduced the insurance premium tax on nonqualified annuities. And I did that when I was governor before, and it helped us attract a number of companies that -- that sell those kind of - in ~ in the state of Lowa. Q. Did you ever do that or try to do that with respect to the workers’ compensation insurance premium? Because obviously that would have an impact; right? A. I don't think it would have -~ MR. LaMARCA: Wait a minute. There's two questions. Which one do you want him to answer first? @. Let me -- Let me start again, Governor. I don't want to ask you a compound question. Have you ever tried or proposed that the state of Iowa abolish the workers! HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qi 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ig 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 104 compensation premium tax? Yes or no? AL No. Q. All right. Is it correct that the workers' compensation premium tax has an impact on -- on the employer's insurance premiums? A. Well, it is added to the premiums, but I would point out it's not an area that the business community has come to me and said it's an impediment and -~ whereas in the area of the insurance premium tax on nonqualified annuities, I was informed by some very knowledgeable people in the insurance industry this is an area that we could grow Iowa jobs if we got if we cut that tax. We did, and we were very successful in attracting companies because of that. And I have worked very closely and I -~ Nick Gerhart is presently the insurance commissioner. And I'm always looking to ways that we can make Iowa more attractive. one of my priorities has been to grow insurance and financial services jobs, and I -~ Q. Governor, stop. I only have five minutes left on this tape, and I want to finish, if we possibly can, the meeting. I really do not want to hear any more campaign speeches. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 105 It's not helpful to me. If you would listen to my questions and answer my questions, it is possible we'll get done today. But we've already done two tapes and we're not -- we're not nearly there yet. So let's go back to the meeting of December 29th and see if we can finish up what he said and what you said. Do you remember that he discussed with you his thoughts that we needed a medical fee schedule? I don't remember that. @. Okay. Do you know that Iowa is one of only four states that do not have a medical fee schedule? A I'm not aware of that. @. Do you know how much medical costs drive workers' compensation insurance premiums? It's one factor. @. Do you know how much of a factor it is? A. I don't know the percentage. Q. Would it surprise you to learn that it's two-thirds of the insurance premium dollar accounted for by medical care? A. Well, medical care is a huge cost HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 al 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 106 throughout business and throughout government, so I'm not surprised that medical costs and we know all -- we all know the medical costs have gone up significantly. Did you review anything before you met with Mr. Godfrey? Any documents or any materials or anything like that? No. Q. Okay. How would a member of your own team differ -- Let me start again How would the decisions of a member of your own team differ from those of Mr. Godfrey? Well, T learned at new governor's school when I was first elected governor you want to choose competent people and people that -- you know, because if you choose competent people that -- that really know their area and -~ and -~ and you can -~ You can build loyalty, but you can't build competence. So I've always tried to fuse -- choose people that are competent and people that are fair and I think people that also share the philosophy I have to grow the Iowa economy and bring more good jobs to the state. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 4 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 107 Q@. So you think that Chris Chris Godfrey is incompetent? A. No. But I -~ I had heard from a lot of businesses they didn't feel he was fair. Q. Okay. A. And that he wasn't treating -~ it wasn't evenhanded. @. Okay. But you did nothing whatsoever to verify whether or not the decisions that he was making as the appellate-level administrative lew judge were fair or not fair; correct? A. Well, I went on the basis of all of the information that was supplied to me from many different sources. From attorneys, from businesses, and elsewhere. @. And what you wanted in that job was someone who would decide cases on behalf of Towa businesses ~ AL No. Q. - to grow Iowa businesses; correct? aA. I wanted somebody that was going to be fair to businesses. I wanted somebody like the workers’ comp commissioners that I'a had when I was governor before. I felt that they were fair, that we had a generous benefit system, but HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 coe 12 13 14 18 16 17 18 19 20 2a 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) fae we kept our costs down. And so it was fair to both claimants and to employers. And that's what I wanted in that position. @. Did the lieutenant governor say anything? The lieutenant governor was in that meeting, and she's not bashful. I don't specifically recall what she might have said. Q. Did Jeff Boeyink say anything that you recall? A. Again, he was in that meeting, and we all participated. Q. Well, but did he -- do you remember anything that he said? I-- I don't -- This-is a long time ago, so I don't remember specifically what people said. Okay. Iris Post is one of the people you appointed? A. Yes. Q@. Somebody that you had confidence in? A. Yes. Somebody that you thought was competent? A, Well, she was one of several. I mean, HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 a4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a I served a long time as governor. I had many different people that served in that capacity, but I. think she was the last one that served in that capacity when I was governor back in the "80s and '90s. @. Did you think she was fair to employers? Yes. I felt that she and the others that served in that capacity did a good job. All right. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 2 at 11:29 a.m. {A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 3 at 11:36 a.m Q. Governor, during your meeting of December 29th did you tell Mr. Godfrey that business wanted him gone? I don't recall specifically. 1 just remember that I had heard from a lot of businesses they didn’t feel that he was fair and that we want -- would appreciate it if he would consider voluntarily resigning. Q. Okay. So you did tell him that business didn't think he was fair? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (S15) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 aq 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 110 A. Yes. Q. And you did tell him that -- Did you tell him -- Let me start again. Did you tell him who or what businesses had said of him? A. Well, we had a very frank discussion. And I thought that it was important to do that and also to hear his perspective. And we told him some of the things we'd heard, and he basically denied it. Q@. Okay. dust like he denied being in favor of -= AL Yes. Q. ~~. of employee choice; correct? A. Correct. Okay. And do you know a man named Bill Walljasper? AL Yes. Q Okay. Mr. Walljasper was the CFO of Casey's; correct? AL Correct. @. Casey's is an Iowa business; right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Were you aware that Mr. Walljasper was quoted a week before your HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24a 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) aan meeting of December 29th -~ a week before your meeting with Chris Godfrey on December 29th Mr. Walljasper was quoted as attributing the success of Casey's to three things that helped them to grow? One was theix people, two was workers' compensation rules, and three was the overall business climate. Did you see that article? A. No. Q. Were you aware of his feelings about workers' compensation? A. No.. Q. He's not somebody that you talked to or that talked to you? AL No. Q@. Okay. Have you ever talked to him? A. When T was the president of Des Moines University, I believe that I -~ 1 did have occasion to meet him. But obviously I knew Don Lamberti a lot better. I had a lot of conversations over the years with Don Lamberti and with Bob Myers, who is the present CEO of -- of Casey's. Q@. Okay. Did you ever discuss workers’ compensation with Mr. Lamberti or Mr. Myers? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1s 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 12 AL No. Q Okay. How about Mr. Murdock? Do you know Dennis Murdock? I know him. Q@. And he's the CEO of CIRC? A. Yes. Did you ever discuss workers! compensation with Mr. Murdock? A. I don't recall having done so. Are you aware that Mr. Murdock felt that Mr. Godfrey was doing a good job and a fair job? No. I have never heard that. Okay. How about the -- the CEO of John Deere? Did you ever talk with him about workers! compensation? No. John Deere is the largest employer in the state of Iowa aside from the state of Iowa; correct? No. Hy-Vee is. @. 0h, Hy-Vee is now? When did that happen? A. Oh, by far. Oh, really? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 ca (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 113 A. By far. John Deere was at one time, but that was probably back in the 1980s. Well -- But today Hy-Vee is by far the largest private employer in the state. @. And -- And who is the CEO of Hy-Vee? A. Presently? Q@. Well, during your campaign in 2010. A. Well, it's -- Randy Edeker is now. It was before that Ric Jurgens. And -- And so I -- but I go way back to Dwight Vredenburg 2 Did you ever discuss workers’ compensation with the CEO of Hy-Vee? A. Well, I -~ I don't recall whether 1 have or not. I've talked with a lot of different business people about the various costs of doing business in our state, including workers’ comp. So I may have. Aside from accusing Mr. Godfrey of being unfair to business, did you have any other discussions with him? I had one meeting with him. Q. Yes. And that's the meeting we've talked about. That was held in December of 2010. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ag 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a4 Q. Okay. Did you discuss his performance? A. I did at that meeting. Q. What did you say about his performance? A. Well, T expressed the concerns that we have already talked about. @. In other words, what you told him was that business thought he was unfair to them? AL Yes. Q. Okay. Nothing else? A, Well, that was the primary thing, that we were concerned about Iowa's competitiveness and the fact that things were going in the wrong direction. @. And one of the things you do not recall about that meeting was a discussion with Chris Godfrey about his desire to implement a medical fee schedule which would directly impact two-thirds of every premium dollar; correct? A, I == I have no recollection of that. (Exhibit 61 was marked for identification Q. Okay. Look at Exhibit 60. What did you do with it? A. It's right here. Right here. Q. Okay. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 aa 15 16 47 18 1g 20 22 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a AL Okay. Q@. No. Look at Exhibit 61. This is Exhibit 60 right here. Q. Yeah. Did I give you 61? A. Wo. No. I have not seen that. MR. LaMARCA: You gave me 61. MS. CONLIN: Yeah, I know. And I meant to give you that, Governor. MR. LaMARCA: You gave me 61. don't know that you gave the witness 61 MS, CONLIN: Yeah. I think that -- Oh, I did not. I did not. MR. LaMARCA: Did you find it on the top of your pile there? MS. CONLIN: Sorry. Q. Here is Exhibit 61. That is a communication that occurred between your chief of staff present at the December 29th meeting just an hour or two before the meeting that you had with Chris Godfrey; correct? Okay. I'm looking at this here. It's Wednesday, December 29th, at 9:35 a.m. to Jeff Boeyink from John Gilliland from -- Q. No. From Mike Ralston. A. Well, a carbon copy was to Gilliland. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 116 It was from Mike Ralston. You're right. You're right. Q@. Okay. And it forwards to you Mr. Gilliland's e-mail to Mr. Ralston of 9:27 a.m. on December 29th; correct? AL Okay. Q. Correct? A. Correct. @. All right. Aside from this document, do you have any other documents prior to December 29th, 2010, that are critical of Mr. Godfrey? A. Documents? Q. Documents. A. Not that I'm aware of. Q@. All right, In his e-mail to Mr. Ralston, Mr. Gilliland lists four criticisms of Mr. Godfrey; correct? A. Yes, they're laid out here. Okay. He says that Mr. Godfrey instituted a system of round robin appeals reviewed by work comp deputies and that Godfrey hears very few appeals himself, setting no precedent or consistency for the impacted stakeholders to follow. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 117 Do you know whether or not that's true? AL No. @- Do you know whether or not deputies reverse each others’ decisions out of spite rather than following any consistent precedent? A, We heard these kind of concerns from a lot of members of the Iowa Association of Business and Industry. So what he is saying in this e-mail basically confirms what we had heard individually from employers all throughout the state. Q. Not my question. MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) MR, LaMARCA: You're asking for his personal knowledge or whether he's heard this? I think he's already told you he heard it, and so -- MS. CONLIN: He's heard all kinds of things. A. Right. I have no personal knowledge, but this is the kind of thing I've heard. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO O¥ TERRY BRANSTAD) 118 Q. All right. And -- And this is what Mr. Gilliland is indirectly telling you through Mr. Boeyink an hour or so before your meeting with Mr. Godfrey; correct? AL Yes. @. Did you ask Mr. Godfrey about the allegation that he's instituted a system of round robin appeals, that he doesn't hear very many appeals himself, that he sets no precedent, and that deputies reverse each other out of spite? A, As I said, we had a very frank discussion. It's a long time ago, but -- and Mr. Boeyink and the lieutenant governor and I all made -- made statements and also gave your client an opportunity to respond. @.. Do you know whether or not you mentioned any of the things that I just mentioned to do -- to you, the round robin appeals -- I don't have a personal recollection of the details. @. All right. Did you -- Do you know whether or not Exhibit 61 -- whether or not Mr. Boeyink or you or the lieutenant governor HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) tis had Exhibit 61 during the meeting of December 29th, 2010, with Mr. Godfrey? A. You =~ You need to ask that of Mr. Boeyink, because it was sent to him. @. All right. He goes on to say -~ Mr. Gilliland goes on to say “Iowa District Court recently issued BB -- BPI versus Rizvic 11-18-10 - reversing Deputy Walshire, who heard the appeal, citing a ‘lack of objectivity' and ‘overstepped his role as an impartial arbiter of the facts and became in essence an advocate for the respondent's position.'" Did anybody bring that up with Mr. Godfrey? A. I heard this directly from the Roths when T met with them. They shared their concerns about -- about the way that their business had been impacted by workers’ comp. And I guess this -- this decision basically just confirms what they told me. Q. But I thought what they told you was that Mr. Godfrey was biased against business -- AL Well -- Q@. ~~ and was -~ and that the Court said so. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 a4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) azo A. Well, this is a deputy that is directly accountable to Mr. Godfrey and who he oversees. Q@. You think that the workers! compensation commissioner can intervene in the decisions of -- of his deputies? Is that what you think? A. Yes. It's my understanding that he has the right to review all of their decisions. Q. Okay. He has -- But they have to appeal to him; right? A. Tt is my understanding that the decisions of the deputies can be reviewed by the commissioner. @ Yes. A. And he is essentially responsible for them because he appoints them and they report to him and the decisions are essentially his, even though they're made by a deputy. Q. Okay. Well, I just want to get a clear understanding of -~ of what you think that Chris Godfrey could have done about this particular case. This case was heard on appeal by Deputy Walshire. Do you know that? Do you understand that? That's what it says right in HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 224 this document. A. Right. He could have handled the appeal instead of -- instead of delegating it to Mr. Walshire. Q. Okay. He did not A. It would have been his responsibility to handle the appeal. And for some reason he didn't. @. Do you know whether or not he had 4 conflict or whether or not =~ N I -- I do not know. @. Okay. N I just know this was a bad decision and it was one made by the workers’ comp commission. In this case the deputy, but -- who was acting as the commissioner. Q. You think that Mr. Godfrey could have disciplined Mr. Walshire for making this decision? Is that what you're telling me? A. I'm saying he could have changed it. Q. After the appeal was written by Mr. Walshire? A. Well, I guess for some reason the appeal should have been decided by the commissioner. But for some reason he didn't HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 122 decide the ~ the appeal, as is the normal process. @. But you don't want him deciding the appeal because he's unfair to employers; right? A. Well, in this case it was the deputy that was unfair to employers, the deputy that works directly for him. @. And you think he could have disciplined Mr. Walshire for making this decision? Is that a correct understanding of your position? - I don't know -- I just know that he is the one that's ultimately accountable. Just as I, as governor, am ultimately accountable as the chief executive of the state, he is accountable for the things that happen within the workers' comp commission. |. Okay. My question is a very precise one. Do you believe that Chris Godfrey as the workers’ compensation commissioner could have disciplined Larry Walshire for writing the Rizvic decision? A. I do not know. @. Okay. Do you know what happened to the Rizvic decision when it reached the Court of Appeals? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ai 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a A. I think that this was just one of many examples that was given to me of decisions that were unfair to -- to employers Q. Number 2, "By administrative rule, disregarded the latest version of the AMI -- AMI -- AMA Guides (6th Edition) to be used in work comp for determining pain and disability ratings." Do you know what Mr. Godfrey put in place to discuss whether or not the state of Towa should adept the AMA Guides? ASeeeetINGs: Q. Do you know that there was, in fact, a task force that met for a year under the direction of Helenjean Walleser -- A. No. @. -+ with representatives of everybody and that it was the task force that made the decision about whether or not to adopt the 6th Edition of the AMA Guides? rAcaecatiN GT Q. That it wasn't Godfrey but it was the task force that made the recommendation? A. The ultimate responsibility for what happens in workers' compensation is the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 a4 1s 16 a7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 124 commissioner that is in charge. And that's the person that the governor appoints. And the governor has a responsibility to review their performance and set their salary. Q. Did you ever review his performance? AL I did. Q. The December 29th meeting you say is a review of his performance? AL .No. No. No. No. No. I did that after I'd been in office six months, at the end of the fiscal year, the end of June, early July of 2011. Q@. Okay. So -~ So you reviewed his performance at that time. How did you go about that? A. Well, we went over all the information, including the briefing that Brenna gave me, as well as the input we received from employers while -- during the campaign and then during the first six months in office. And from -- as again I said, I heard from businesses of all size, I heard from attorneys, I heard from all this wide source of people. And that's basically how I -- and I looked at his performance and then I looked at how we compared HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aa 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 128 to other states. Q. Okay. But returning to Exhibit 61 and Mr. Gilliland's opinion, he says in number 3 "Completely disregards counsel and the resources of the Iowa Workers’ Compensation Advisory Committee - an all stakeholders group designed in the 1970s to assist the commissioner - used effectively by all prior commissioners. Do you know whether or not that's true? A. I do not. Q. Okay. Do you know, in fact, that the record of the Workers’ Compensation Division and Mr. Godfrey specifically with respect to e-mails and other documents show a reliance on the Workers’ Compensation Advisory Committee for advice and assistance over the course of all of the years that he was, in fact, the commissioner? A, I don't know, but I do know that this is a large association that represents over 1,400 employers in the state, and this is their impression. And this is coming from the leadership of that organization, an organization that I've worked closely with on a lot of issues HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 126 affecting business over a long period of time. Q. And is it your position that Mr. Gilliland is representing the ABI in his communication with you of December 29th? AL Yes. Q. The ABI had taken a position with respect to whether or not Mr. Godfrey should be retained? A. I had already heard from a lot of the members as I traveled throughout the state. Q@. I know. I know that. A. This was coming from the staff, but I'd also heard from the members. Q. Not my question. MS. CONLIN: Would you read the question back, please? (Requested portion of the record was read.) A. I don't know they'd taken an official position, I know that this communication was sent to my chief of staff designee. Q. But you do not know whether or not that was the official position of the ABI or whether or not that was Mr. Gilliland's opinions correct? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 au 22 23 24 25 ca (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 327 A. I know that he is employed by ABI, and I know. that he communicated to my chief of staff -- chief of staff designee. Q. All right. And the fourth thing is "Iowa work comp rates will rise again on January Ist ~ a key driving factor cited by NCCT (national insurance rating actuary) is the increase in ‘permanent total disability’ decisions by the commissioner's office under Godfrey." Were you under the impression that that was a quote from the NCCI? A. That's the kind of thing we were hearing. Q. Were you under the impression that that was a quote from the NCCI? A, I don't know. Q. "In a number of these cases, the claimant was still working or able to work.” Do you know whether or not that's true? A, I've heard that. Q Do you know whether or not that is, in fact, the law? A. It's my understanding that giving total HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LYD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 a 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 128 disability is not appropriate if somebody is able to work. Q. Really? That's your understanding of the law? A. It is my understanding that in establishing permanent disability, that permanent disability would not apply if an individual just has a particular body portion that is disabled. Q. Okay. Permanent total disability, that's what we're talking about here; right? . I guess so. Q. Okay. Permanent total disability, is it your understanding of the law that if a person can work in any job for any salary that that person is not and cannot be held to be permanently totally disabled? . Well, T don't know about that. And T don't know the detail of this. 1 do know that what T have heard from employers was that under Mr. Godfrey, the amount of -- the number of claimants that were being granted total permanent disability increased dramatically. And that adversely affected the workers’ comp costs for Iowa businesses. HOUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 un 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 ay 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 129 @. When you say “inereased dramatically," please tell me what you mean. That -- ©. Doubled? Tripled? Quadrupled? A I don't know to what percentage, but I just know that we heard this from a lot of different sources. And this was of great concern to them. This was a concern that was expressed by the self-insured group that met with us, this was expressed by a lot of individual different businesses, and this was expressed in this communication from Mr. Gilliland. Q. What -- What he sought and what you sought by trying to get Mr. Godfrey to resign was to eliminate permanent total disability for certain workers; correct? No. What we wanted is somebody that's going to be fair and that would interpret the law as had been done by previous workers' comp commissioners. Q. Including Tris Post? A. As I said, I'm not going to try to single out or identify anybody specifically HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a except just to say that we do look at trends and we -- and things were going the wrong direction. And the impression that businesses were giving me is that Iowa was becoming less and less favorable towards business growth because of the workers! comp decisions. Q. How many injured workers did you talk to, Governor? . I -- I'm sure that I talked to many during the course of the campaign. Q. You haven't mentioned ever talking to injured workers in the course of your testimony here today or in the course of your -- any of the documents that have come forward. A. Well, the concerns and the complaints were mainly coming from employers, but I alse met with and talked to injured workers, and I've worked with vocational rehabilitation, I've worked with -- in fact, worked with Senator Harkin and others to try to help people with disabilities to find employment opportunities. And there are too many people with disabilities that are underemployed that could be employed and who are would be good workers. And one of the things we're trying to HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910210 1 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 131 do is find more opportunities for those people. Q. 9 Okay. A. $0 I'm very concerned about those people too. Q. In -- In this litigation you never mentioned injured workers before today, did you? And I mentioned them. A. Well, you ask the questions. I just answer them. Q. Are you aware of court cases where Mr. Godfrey denied benefits to an injured worker and was reversed by the district court or the Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court? A. I'm not aware. Q. You're not aware because you don't think it happened, or you're just not aware? A. No. I'm just not aware. @. All right. A. You know, T know there are a lot of decisions that are made, so I'm not aware and don't expect to be aware of every one. Q. But you think it's fair to pick out one decision or two decisions? A. No. No. Q. Ana ~~ HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 i 12 13 14 15 16 aq 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 132 A. No. No. It's -- It's the perception - Q. You're supposed to wait until I finish my question before you begin your answer. AL Okay. Q. You think it's fair for you to pick out one decision or two decisions or a handful of the thousand decisions that Mr. Godfrey has had a role in, or maybe more, and -- and seek his resignation because of those; correct? A. Well, it wasn't just one or two, I heard this from a lot of different sources all over the state, and it was verified by the decisions of the Court and - and also obviously the fact that the workers’ comp costs in Iowa were going up in comparison to other states. So it was a totality of all of those circumstances and the concern and the impression that I'm hearing from the business community while I'm trying to attract business and jobs and grow the Iowa economy that this is something that is a negative. Q. How many decisions did Mr. Godfrey make in the average year? Do you know? A, I don't know. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 14 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 133 Q@. Do you know how many decisions he made in his term? A I do not Q@. Is Teresa Wahlert Mr. Godfrey's supervisor? A. No. @. Is anyone Mr. Godfrey's supervisor? A. No. Did you ever -- ever in the course of your evaluation of his performance that you say you made see his resume or his CV? A. No. @. What files or materials did you look at with respect to your decision to try to get him to resign or with respect to any decision you made? MR. LaMARCA: You mean in addition to what he's already told you? we spent a lot of time -- you ~~ MR. LaMARCA: — MS. CONLIN: Yes. MS. CONLIN: Yes. and he's told I believe -- I've told you all this. It's the same information I've already repeated again and HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a again. Q. All right. I'm asking you about files. I'm asking you about materials. A. No files, No files. Q. No -- There's no written material? A. No, there's no written material. Q. Anyplace? A. No. Did -- In the course of your December 29th meeting did Mr. Godfrey advise you of the positive improvements he made in the workers' compensation department? I remember he talked about a -- a new -- a new system for electronic filing or whatever that he was working on and that he wanted to see that through and wanted to see that completed. And -- And I remember that was one of the things he brought up. Anything else that you can recall that he brought up, of positive improvements that he's made? That's the one thing I do remember. Q. Did he agree to support your goals insofar as he could do so in -- within the ethical constraints of his office? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) bere A. Well, I got the impression that -- Q. No. A. ~~ you'know, from our meeting -- @ I -- I asked you did he agree to support your goals? A. I don't recall that he did. Q. Okay. Are you aware that during his term from 2006 to July of 2011 that costs to employers for workers’ compensation declined by 7 percent? I know that the trend in comparison to other states was in a negative direction, that Iowa's costs in comparison to other states -- that we went from the 7th lowest to the 28th. @. Were -- A, It's our comparison to other states that really counts when you're working to attract business and jobs and encouraging expansion and growth. It's not what the premiums are. It's what they are in relation to the competition. Q@. Well, and then -- but if the competition are other states that have significantly changed their laws, then you can't HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 42 13 14 1s 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 136 really blame that on Chris Godfrey, can you? A. Well, it's a number of factors that go into this. The decision of the workers' comp commissioner is one of the big factors that does affect rates. The laws are another factor. Q. But you -- But you said the rates don't matter. And the rates have gone down by 7 percent. A. Well, the rates in comparison to other states. Q. The rates have gone down by 7 percent. Did you know that? A. Well, that's -- that's -- I don't know that as a fact. Okay. Let me start again. Were you aware that from 2006, when he began his term as the workers* compensation commissioner, until July of 2011 the rate of workers’ compensation premiums declined by 7 percent? A. No. Do you -- Let me show you what I'm going to mark as Exhibit 62. Because this is ~ I don't know if you've ever seen this before, but this is apparently something that you rely HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 at 12 13 14 15 16 WwW 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TTAD) 137 (Exhibit 62 was marked for identification.) MR. LaMARCA: Excuse me. I would like you just to ask questions and follow the rules, We don't need your commentary. You're net under oath here. Exhibit 62 is a portion of the National Academy of Social Insurance. Have you seen this before? No. Q. It's a table that shows the costs per $100 of payroll by state for 2006 to 2010. and where Iowa is concerned, the -- the costs have gone from 2006 from $1.52 per $100 of payroll to 140 - I'm sorry -- to $1.42 from 2006 to 2010. Do you see that? Yeah, I see that. @. Do you have any reason to disagree with that? A. Well, I don't know. This is not information I've ever seen before, and I don't -- you know, what is important to me is how we stack up versus other states. Q. And ~~ HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 a. 12 13 14 15 16 aq 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEFO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 138 A. That's why we relied on the Oregon study. Q. This comes from a book that is Plaintiff's Exhibit @ for Teresa Wahlert. And it's on page 34 of the Workers' Compensation: Benefits, Coverage, and Costs, 2010, put out by the National Academy of Social Insurance in August of 2012. This is not something that you've seen or that you were familiar with -- No. Q. -- or that you knew even knew; correct? No. No. Q@. Here is an August 20 -- Wait a minute. Here's -- This -- You've talked to me several times about going to the self-insurance people. I think that may be the invitation. (Exhibit 63 was marked for identification.) @. Do you recognize that? AL ves. @. And is this the invitation that you received to speak to the self-insurance people, the Iowa -- A. Yes. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 139 Q. ~~ Self-Insurers Association? Did you go and attend that meeting? A. I did. As did Lance Horbach. Q. Okay. And Mr. Horbach and you were speakers at that meeting; correct? Yes. And we did a question-and-answer session with the -~ the attorneys and the businesses that were represented. And the invitation came from Todd Beresford from Tyson Foods. Q. Okay. How many people were at that meeting? A. There was quite a few. I would guess 40 or 50. Q. Okay. (Exhibit 64 was marked for identification Q@. Exhibit 64 is additional ~~ the next day you got some additional information about that meeting from Mr. Beresford. Or is this your response -- It looks to me like this document includes both your response to the invitation and a brief introduction or resume that is on page 41; right? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a A. Right. Q. Okay. And this comes from an e-mail address Do you see that? Yeah. Q. That was your campaign e-mail address; correct? A. Yes. And Bonnie Hall was the campaign scheduler. Q. Okay. Do you know where this particular document came from? A. ‘This document you've got as Exhibit 64? @ Yes. A. I -- I don't know where it came from, but I do know that it is correspondence between Bonnie Hall and -- and Todd Beresford with regard to the meeting with the self-insured. Well, it says it came from your campaign; correct? Yeah Q. All right. Who asked or who ordered the destruction of all of the e-mails sent during your campaign? I would assume that would have been the campaign manager once the campaign was over. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ae Q. That was Mr. Boeyink? AL Yes. Q. Why? Why would he order that? A. I -- Well, the campaign was over, and it was time to move on to the transition to the governor's office. And, you know, I don't micromanage, and the campaign manager decides what to do with the material. And once the campaign is over ~ There's a lot of stuff that you've got to get rid of once the campaign is over. @. And do you know what computers were used during the campaign and where they might be? A. No. I have no idea. @. Who would know? A. Mr. Boeyink might know. I mean, he was the campaign manager. Q. Okay. The only meeting that you ever had with Chris Godfrey was the meeting that you had on December 29th; correct? A. That's correct Q. Do you know whether or not there were any changes in his duties after you became governor? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 442 A. I'm not aware that there were any changes. Q. His duties are established by law; correct? A. Yes. @. All right. Do you know whether or not there was any change in the performance of his duties after you became governor? A. Not that I'm aware of. @. Do you know whether or not there were any Changes in the salaries of his subordinates after you became governor? A. Not that I'm aware of. @ All right. Have -: A. Other -- Other than the normal thing that goes on in state government. I think most of the employees are contract employees. @. What does that mean? A. And so they -- which means they're in the union. And they get whatever the union contract provides. Q. Do you believe that previous governors have forced workers' compensation commissioners out? AL Yes HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD (515) 288-491010 aa 12 13 14 18 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 eq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANS'TAD) 143 @. Do you believe that Iris Post was forced out by Governor Vilsack during her term of office? A. I don't know the specifics on that. @. Well, tell me what you think. Tell -~ Tell me what governors have forced out workers! compensation commissioners A. Well, I know that governors generally like to have their own team and consequently will ask people to resign. Vilsack did this when I left office. @. Okay. My question -- A. And -~ And -~ And also so did Governor culver Q. Okay. My question is what governors forced out what workers' compensation commissioners? A 1 don't know. Q. But you believe Iris Post is one? A. I don't know, Q. Would it be correct that the workers! compensation commissioner cannot himself reduce rates? Right? Insurance company =~ Insurance rates. A. That's not a decision -- but -- the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 28 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 14a decisions made impact rates, but the rates are set by insurance companies and reviewed by the insurance commissioner Q. And a workers’ compensation commissioner could not reduce rates to -- or have any impact on, let's say, the rates as compared to Kansas unless Iowa had the same workers’ compensation laws as Kansas; correct? A. No, not correct. MR. LaMARCA: I'm going to object. That's two questions. Which one do you want him to answer? Q. Okay. Let -- Let me start again, Governor. Is it correct that a workers’ compensation commissioner cannot make decisions that would reduce rates as compared to Kansas unless the Kansas laws are comparable? A. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Again, the workers’ compensation commissioner's decision on benefits does affect rates. @. okay. I I understand you believe that. AL Okay. Q. Okay. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 18 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 145 A. There's no question about that. Q@. Okay. .And then can the worker -~ can the Iowa workers’ compensation commissioner have an impact on reducing rates in comparison to Kansas unless Iowa's laws are comparable to Kansas? A. That's @ confusing question. Q. I think it is. Let me see if T can do it better. Will you -~ Do you know whether or not Kansas and Iowa have the same workers! comp insurance -- A. I think the general workers’ comp laws are similar in all states, but the specifics vary. And different states have made reforms and changes based on their own experience and what's happened to their states. I think the state of Oregon is -~ they do this comparison to see how they stack up vis-a-vis other states. And we and other states look at that because it's an objective comparison that they do for their own benefit as to how they stack up. And that is my concern, is using that Oregon objective study that's done on a HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 32 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 146 regular basis, our workers' comp rates in relation to other states have consistently gone up under your client's leadership and as the director of workers’ comp. @. Okay. But you don't take into account A. Commissioner of workers’ comp. Q. any differences in the laws of the various states. Is that a correct understanding? A. I have no control over the laws of any other state. Q. Okay. You do have control over the laws or some control over the laws of the state of Iowa: correct? A. Right. Q. You have not proposed any changes in workers' compensation laws to make them consistent with the laws of the states that have lower premiums; correct? A. Well, I did veto a bill that would have changed the employer choice of doctor. That was exitically important. Q. That -- A. And I did that when I was governor HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ua7 before. And I also work with the legislature and I'ma realist as to what has the opportunity to get approved by both houses of legislature. And T have a Democratic-controlled Senate, a Republican House. So I try to propose things that I think realistically can be approved with bipartisan support. Okay. So the answer is “No, I have not proposed any legislative changes that would make Iowa laws consistent with the laws of other states with lower premiums"; correct? A. Not in this term. @. Okay. Do you know how worker demographics impact on the Oregon rate ranking? Worker demographics? @. Yes. Worker demographics. RCaEEEEN ON Q. Okay. So the difference between states in terms of what kind of jobs they have and what kind of workers they have, you don't take that into account yoursel£? We kind of take a look at it from the overall perspective of how do we stack up and how competitive are we. And that's the nature HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) ae0 of it. Businesses make decisions based on that, so we have to -- we have to deal with perception as well as reality. And perception is that in Towa things are getting worse, in some other states it's getting better. Q. Well, how does Iowa stack up in terms of health insurance premiums? Do you know? A. We're relatively low. Q. Okay. And =~ A. And -- And let me point that out, because that's interesting. Our our health insurance costs are relatively low, although we Iowans kind of think they're high, but in relation to other states we're relatively low. But yet our -~ our health results are among the best. Q@. So that's a difference in perception. You got lots of complaints from employers about health insurance costs; right? AL Yes. Q@. Okay. You didn't fire Susan Voss or anybody else as a result of those complaints; correct? A. Well, Susan Voss was specifically asked to stay on as the insurance commissioner. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 lL 12 13 14 18 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 149 And - And then, of course, she has been replaced now by Nick Gerhart. And I think he's doing a great job. @. So you did not fire Susan Voss even though businesses all over the state of Iowa during your campaign complained about health insurance premiums; correct? A. That's right. Q. Okay. I think we've already covered this. Mr. Godfrey has more defense than claimants! verdicts. Did you know that? ENO @. What do you think the purpose of the six-year term of years for the workers! compensation commissioner is? A. That was a decision that was made by the legislature, in terms of, you know, choosing to have this ~ instead of at the pleasure of the governor, have it serve a term for years. And we have various responsibilities in state government. Some are termed for years, and some serve at the pleasure of the governor. Q. Isn't it correct that the workers! compensation commissioner has a judicial HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491020 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 150 function? A. No. Q. He doesn't? A. He is part of the executive branch of state government. Q. Does -- You don't think that the workers’ compensation commissioner has a judicial function? A. No. No. No. No. No. No. The judicial department is -- judiciary is a separate branch of government. And it is governed by the Supreme Court. The executive branch of government, including the workers’ comp commissioner, is part of the executive branch of government. And they have administrative responsibilities, and those administrative duties can be appealed to the courts. Q@. 9 Perhaps I'm -- A. There's @ difference between the judiciary and the executive. This is clearly executive branch. @. Okay. A, That's the reason why the governor is given the authority to set the salaries of the HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qn 12 13 14 1s 16 Wy 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a people within the executive branch. There are people that ~~ whose salaries are set by the chief justice in the court system. There are people in the legislative branch whose salaries are set by the legislature. @. Okay. Is A. This is executive branch. Q@. Is it your position that the workers’ compensation commissioner and his deputies do not perform any quasi judicial functions? They perform administrative responsibilities as spelled out by the Towa code. Q. Okay, So no, they do not perform quasi judicial functions. 1s that a correct understanding? A. They ~ They make decisions on -- on workers' comp issues that have been separated from the courts. In other words, the legislature a long time ago made the decision this should not be a judicial decision, it should be done administratively, and it should not require a showing of fault in order to get compensation. So it's a different system than HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 152 the -- than the court system. Q. The -- The commissioner is the person to whom deputies‘ decisions are usually appealed; correct? Yes. @. The deputies find facts and apply laws correct? A. They do that within the responsibility that’s spelled out by the code for handling workers! comp claims. Q. Okay. But you do not agree that the function of the deputies and the commissioner in terms of finding facts and applying the law is a judicial or quasi judicial function; is that correct? It is part of the executive branch of government. You think the executive branch of government cannot have quasi judicial officers in it, Is that a correct understanding? A. No. There's all kinds of people in -- in different areas of the executive branch of government that do have administrative responsibilities to -- to resolve disputes. We do that with unemployment, we do that in -- in HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910210 at 12 23 a4 15 16 a 18 19 20 a1 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 183 inspections and appeals. There's a lot of areas in the executive branch that do that. Q. And those individuals who make those decisions are called administrative law judges; correct? A. Right. Right. Q. Okay. But the deputy industrial A. But that is different than a judge in the sense of being part of the judicial branch of government. These are executive branch employees. Q. Does the judicial code of conduct apply to administrative law judges and deputy industrial commissioners -- deputy workers! -~ Let me start again. Does the judicial code of conduct apply to administrative law judges and to deputy -- workers' comp commissioners and deputy commissioners? A. I do not know. Q@. You -~ We've discussed this before, but I take it that you think that the workers’ comp commissioner can directly intervene in what the deputies decide; correct? HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 14 45 16 17 18 19 20 ai 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 154 A. Tt is my understanding that the decisions of the deputies can be reviewed by the commissioner, the workers’ comp commissioner. Q. The deputies' decisions can be appealed? A. And the final decision is made by the commissioner or he can delegate that. @. Okay. And if he delegates that and somebody makes a decision he doesn't like, then he can reverse it. Is that your understanding? Well, I'm not sure that I know the details on that. I just know that he is the one that's in charge. And obviously if you're not satisfied with what a deputy is doing and you are the person that's in charge, you can make changes. @. Well -- A. dust like the governor can make changes. If I have people that work for me that aren't doing what I think is appropriate and they are people that serve at--- at my -- at my will, obviously I can make changes. Q. Are deputies merit system employees? AL No. Q. Deputy industrial commissioners -- HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 155 deputy workers' comp commissioners? No, they -~ they are not. They -- They are part of the bargaining unit. They -- They are contract employees. Q. Okay. So they're part of the bargaining unit; correct? A. That's my understanding @. Okay. And then that -- does that mean that he can walk in ~~ Let me start again. Does that mean that you believe that Chris Godfrey can walk into a deputy's office and say to the deputy “You're fired" and that will happen? A. It is my understanding -- and this is a different -- they are in the bargaining unit, but it is my understanding that the workers’ comp commissioner has the authority to -- to choose =~ hire and fire the deputies. Q. Okay. So you think that the workers! comp commissioner can walk into the office of a deputy and say “You're fired" and that will happen; right? A, That's my understanding. Q. Okay. And the workers’ compensation commissioner -~ HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qi 12 13 14 15 16 uy 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 156 A. The law is so different and -- and, you know, I'm the governor of the whole state, and I have all these different departments and agencies, and the law is different for all of them, Q. Okay. I understand that, Governor. 1 am fully aware of that. A. So I don't know all the details, but that's my understanding. Q. Okay. You believe that the workers' compensation commission -- commissioner can fire a deputy based on the decisions that he or she makes; correct? A. I don't know the details of that. 1 just know that the commissioner is the one -- not the governor, not anybody else -- that has the right to hire and fire the -- the deputies. @. And you believe that the commissioner can fire a deputy based on his or her decisions; correct? A. Well, I think that is a responsibility of the commissioner. And I'm not going to -- and I've never been a micromanager, and ~ and it's the -- I've -- I ultimately feel that whoever is in charge is the one that needs to be HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 157 held accountable for what the people that report to them do. Q. Do you know Cynthia Eisenhauer? A. Yes. Q. Okay. What was your relationship with her? A. She served as a department head in many different administrations. For Governor Ray, for myself, and for Governor Vilsack. @. Okay. What -~ During your administration what department or departments did she serve as director of? A. Well, I think she was director of what is now Workforce Development. Q. Okay. A. And then under Vilsack she was Department of Management. @. Okay. Did you trust Cynthia Eisenhauer in terms of her decision-making ability? I thought she was a good administrator. Q. You trusted her to hire people and fire people and make good decisions about who should do what kind of jobs? A. Well, everybody that -- that is a department head, you basically trust them until HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qa 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 158 they do something you think is totally inappropriate. @. She never did anything you thought was inappropriate, did she? A, Wot that I was aware of. Q@. Okay. Do you know -- Did you trust her to evaluate the qualifications of people to perform appraisals and to manage people? Well, as I said, I'm not a micromanager. I thought Cynthia Eisenhauer was dedicated to public service, served in a lot of different capacities in three different administrations. I think that says a lot for her. Q. Okay. You never disciplined her or fired her or tried to fire her? A. No Q. You never cut her pay or suspended her or put her on probation; correct? No. Q. You did, in fact, promote her; correct? A. I chose her when ~~ when we went through 4 reorganization and I -~ I chose her to be the director of the Department of Workforce Development. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 wn 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) aoe: Q. Would it be -- A. I thought she did a good job in that position Q. Okay. Would it be fair to call her a trusted long-term advisor during your administration until the end of your administration in early 19997 Your first administration. Yes. Q. Okay. A. And I know she's a Democrat, and ~~ and I know that she had worked for Governor Ray, and I know that she got an even bigger job with Vilsack to be the director of the Department of Management. @. Well, she was also -- wasn't -- I thought she served as Vilsack's chief of staff for a period of time. Is that true, or do you know? A. Well, I thought she was the director of the Department of Management, who works closely with the chief of staff, but management is the one -- Dave Roederer has the position today, that oversees the budget and whatever. And that -- that's my recollection. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) a Q. All right. Well, were you aware in whatever capacity she was serving Governor Vilsack that she interviewed Chris Godfrey for his job in December of 2005? AL No. Q. Were you aware that she recommended his appointment to Governor Vilsack? AL No. Q. Were you aware that she based her recommendation on his equal experience with respect to respondents and claimants and on his membership in ABI? No. I'm not aware of any of it @. Okay. Were you aware that he had letters of recommendation from claimants' attorneys and defense attorneys? A. No. Q. That he had letters of recommendation from businesses and self-insurers? No. Q. Is John Deere a self-insurer? A. I'm not sure. Q. Okay. A. I would -- They're a large employer in Towa, obviously. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 a. 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 161 @. Okay. Do you him Cynthia Eisenhauer his evenhandedness and know that in recommending specifically mentioned his fairness? A. I'm not aware of it. Q. Are you aware that she cited his encyclopedic knowledge of the system, his vast experience, and his good working relationship with all of the deputies? A, No. I'm not aware of any of this. All right. Do you know whether or not Cynthia Eisenhauer knew of Christopher Godfrey's sexual orientation? a. I'm not aware of it. @. Okay. A. And I'm going to say I was the president of Des Moines University, and T stayed out of it. 1 stayed out of politics and government during that time. Do you think that Cynthia Eisenhauer, your longtime trusted advisor, would recommend the hiring of someone who would be unfair to Towa businesses? T'm not going to make a judgment. Q@. You think she would? A. No. I'm not going to try to judge HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 qt 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 162 what -- I'm not going to try to judge her or anybody else. Q. Well, you judged Mr. Godfrey, didn't you? A. I had a legal responsibility to set his salary within a range set by the legislature. And I just performed my responsibility. And 1 reviewed his performance as part of that @. But you didn't do any of this in writing? AL No. Q. Was that the recommendation of Brenna ~~ No. @. -- Findley, that you not do. anything in writing? A. No. That's always been my policy. @. You never do anything in writing? A. Well, I do some things in writing. I -- you know, T sign a lot of letters, I -- 1 respond to a let of correspondence. But in terms of the evaluation I do of department heads and division directors, that has not been done in writing. Q@. Okay. Are you aware of the policy of HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 163 DAS with respect to performance evaluations and how they are to be done? MR. LaMARC For what category of employees? MS. CONLIN: All categories. MR. LaMARCA: There are hundreds of categories in Iowa the governor -~ A. Well, there's -- Yeah. DAS, I'm not familiar with the details of -- of that. Q. All right. When you -- When you perform a performance evaluation and not ~ don't put it in writing, why do you not put it in writing? A. Well, I have a very demanding and busy job, and T have to make a lot of tough decisions all the time. And so, you know, I -- I get information over a long period of time, and then when we get to a point like the end of the fiscal year and I have a responsibility to do an evaluation and to make a decision as to what the -- I - I try to get all that input and -~ and then make a decision @. But you don't put it in writing? A. Never have. @. Okay. Did you receive any complaints HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LID. (515) 288-491010 ql 12 13 14 1s 16 7 1s 19 20 21 22 23 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 164 about Mr. Godfrey's cooperation with others? A. No. Q. Any complaints about whether orn was responsive to legislators? AL No. Q. Any complaints about administrative rules? AL No. @. Did you have -- Did you have any contact with a man named Greg Egbers, B-G-B-E-R-S? A. No. I don't =~ I don't recall that Q. Okay. He is a partner in the Betty Neuman Law Firm in Davenport. Does that help you to remember who he is? AL. No. @. Okay. To your knowledge, did he ever complain about Chris Godfrey? A. I'm not familiar with him, so I don't know Q@. Okay. Is he a candidate for workers! compensation commissioner, to replace Mr. Godfrey? A. Not to my knowledge. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 165 Q. At the self-insurers meeting did you get any campaign contributions from the attendees? A. Not at that meeting, but. I think there were people in attendance that had -- had or did contribute to my campaign. But that was not ~ that was not a fund-raising event. Q. Did campaign staffers attend the meeting with you? A. I think I might have had a driver with me on that occasion. Q. At the meeting did you list ways that the attendees could contribute te your campaign? A. No. This was not a fund-raiser. @. Did you make any promises about Chris Godfrey to the people who attended the self-insurance meeting? AL No. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record ending Tape 3 at 12:36 p.m. (A recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record beginning Tape 4 at 1339. Q. Governor, who is on the list to replace Chris Godfrey as workers' compensation HUNEY-VAUGEN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-491010 a 12 13 44 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cq (VIDEO DEPO OF TERRY BRANSTAD) 166 commissioner? A. There is no list. We have named -~ Q. Miki McGovern? A. -- Miki McGovern as the acting commissioner, and we are presently taking applications for that position. @. Okay. Are people writing you letters and sending you their resumes and that kind of thing? A. My -- My staff€ is handling that, but -- basically Ben Hammes handles 11 appointments, so the correspondence with regard to that would go to him. @. Do you know who has expressed interest in the position? A. No, I don't. @. Do you know if anybody has written a letter of application for the job? A. Oh, T think people have, but I have not -~ T have not had an opportunity to review any applications or any letters, and we have not done any interviews yet. @. Okay. You've --~ Have you discussed the candidates with anyone? A. No. HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD. (515) 288-4910