Findley

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(VIDEO DEPO OF SHARON BRENNA FINDLEY)
68
would also rely on the research by the attorney
general's office when questions arise.
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
Q.
Who did the research that produced the
workers' compensation cases?

A.
That produced the work -- Which
workers' compensation cases?

Q.
The workers' compensation cases listed
by the governor in answer to interrogatories.

A.
My understanding is that employers
10
during the governor's campaign, during the
11
transition, and during the governor's term
12
brought up concerns related to the direction
13
that workers' compensation was going, and they
14
would mention specific cases.

And during the course of that
15
16
time, although not during the campaign and not
17
before I started with the transition, I would
18
gather information as requested by the governor
19
and provide it to him.
20
looking up to see if what the employer said was
21
a concern was, in fact, a concern, if it had --
22
what had happened and briefing the governor on
23
that.
24
25
Q.
And that would include
Did -- Did you do that research
yourself, or did you ask staff to do that?

HUNEY-VAUGHN COURT REPORTERS, LTD.
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asked me about the laws applicable to the
appointment and performance of duties.
Q.
What laws did you provide to him?
A.
Sure.
I told the governor about the
term of the workers' compensation commissioner,
the parts -- described parts of the Iowa Code
that relate to the workers' compensation
commissioner's duties, term.
information about the 2008 Iowa Acts, which
I also provided
10
gives the governor the duty to set the
11
compensation.
12
Q.
Did you give him citations?
13
A.
I referred to the information, to my
14
knowledge, as being in Iowa Code, but I would
15
not have provided him with a legal citation.
16
Q.
Did you -- Okay.
17
the statute.
18
correct understanding?
19
A.
So you did not cite
You just talked to him?
Is that a
I talked to him, and I referred to the
20
statute, but I -- my understanding of legal
21
citations is that would be something in a legal
22
document, a very formal citation.
23
Instead I would say the Iowa Code
24
provides that and describe what the Iowa Code
25
provides or I would say the Iowa Acts provide

(515) 288-4910
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143
that, and then I would explain the duties in the
Iowa Acts.
Q.
Did you have the codes in your hand?
A.
Many times I would.
5
6
7
8
9
That's my
practice.
Q.
Okay.
So you would just hand them to
him or just read them to him?

A.
My typical practice would be if I knew
a question would come up or had been asked a
10
question, I would grab the book off the shelf in
11
my office and bring it with me so that I could
12
refer to it.
13
14
Q.
All right.
Did you do that in this
case?
15
A.
I would assume that I did.
16
Q.
Was there a formal report provided with
17
any written materials?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
Was it -- It was just you providing him
20
21
the research that you had done?

A.
It was -- would not be my practice to
22
provide a formal report when the governor would
23
ask a question where the answer could easily be
24
found in Iowa Code.
25
to what is the term and what are the conditions
For example, the answer as

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161
its own.
And there was a problem, in that employers had
serious concerns about workers' compensation in
Iowa, about the direction, about the
competitiveness, about our competitive advantage
with other states, among other factors.
Q.
Private companies need to do that.
What is the percentage of the cost of
doing business that workers' compensation
usually -- or averages?
A.
10
11
question.
Q.
12
13
I don't know the answer to that
Was that a part of your discussion with
the governor?
A.
14
The governor asked me to explain to him
15
the laws, his duties under the laws with regard
16
to workers' compensation.
17
explain the statute.
18
can go into that in greater detail, if you would
19
like.
20
the -- the term and the duties, which I did.
21
asked me to look into specific cases, which I
22
did.
23
Q.
He asked me to
I've described that and
He asked me to explain and describe
Okay.
So you did not -- the governor
24
did not mention and you did not consider or
25
discuss what percentage of the cost of doing

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A.
168
The decisions that are listed in the
governor's interrogatory answer I would have
typically obtained online, looking at them in
that way.
Q.
All right.
A.
Not usually.
Q.
What qualifications do you have to
9
10
11
Would you have printed them
off?
judge the work of the commissioner and the

performance of his duties?
A.
I believe the governor is qualified to
12
do that under Iowa law that we've discussed
13
previously.
My personal qualifications are
14
15
that I am an attorney.
16
attended law school.
17
I serve as the governor's legal counsel.
18
it's the governor's role to assess that.
19
Q.
I've, of course,
I'm a licensed attorney.
But
You did a specific review of cases,
20
explained them to the governor.
You explained
21
to the governor what you felt was the negative
22
impact of these decisions from the commissioner
23
or his deputies.
24
Mr. Godfrey's bias toward employees was not
25
creating a good climate and so on.
And we discussed that

(515) 288-4910
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175
me personally, I didn't say that in my answer,
but you did threaten legal action.
Q.
Well, do you know that the -- that
the -- the antidiscrimination laws do, in fact,
provide that the prevailing party, if it's the
plaintiff, is entitled to attorney's fees --
A.
I do.
Q.
-- and costs?
9
10
Okay.
A.
So how is that a threat?
I -- My answer is that you threatened
11
to sue the governor -- you threatened legal
12
action in the phone call.
13
14
15
Q.
I -- I told you that I would file legal
action, and you took that as a threat; right?

A.
When you spoke to me on the phone, you
16
threatened to sue the governor if his -- if
17
Commissioner Godfrey's salary was not raised.
18
19
Q.
All right.
Well, if -- Did you have a
discussion at that time with the governor?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
I am assuming that that
22
conversation is covered by the Court's order, so
23
tell me what you said and what he said.
24
25
A.
Yes.
You're talking about me telling
the governor about the conversation that I had

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176
with you?
Q.
Yes.
A.
Okay.
I did tell the governor that --
about our conversation and that you had
threatened to sue the governor's office or the
governor.
7
8
Q.
And?
I'm sure you used the word
"threatened"; is that right?
A.
I believe I did.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
At that point nothing had been filed.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
Go on.
What -- What did the
governor say?
14
A.
I recall that he was surprised.
15
Q.
And?
16
A.
Surprised that someone would sue him
17
for that action.
18
Q.
I understand --
19
A.
Yeah.
20
Q.
-- that he was surprised.
21
A.
Yeah.
22
Q.
What did you say to him?
23
A.
"I will let you know in the event that
24
25
a lawsuit is filed," and I left it at that.

Q.
Okay.
So you did not discuss with him

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2
177
what I asked you to discuss with him then?

A.
I'm not sure that I know what you're
referring to.
conversation that we had, that you and I had on
the phone, and informed him of that and of the
threat of litigation.
Q.
Okay.
I told him that -- about the
You did not consider raising
Mr. Godfrey's salary; right?
any other.
10
A.
At that time or at
If you're asking me if I considered
11
raising Mr. Godfrey's salary, I don't have
12
authority over Mr. Godfrey's salary.
13
governor does.
14
your request to raise Chris Godfrey's salary.
15
He did not do so.
16
Q.
Okay.
The
The governor was made aware of
Did you have a discussion with
17
the governor at any time after -- on or after
18
July 11th, 2011, in which you discussed the
19
possibility of raising Chris Godfrey's salary?
20
A.
I discussed your request that Chris
21
Godfrey's salary be raised, and the governor
22
knew that at any time he has a duty under the
23
statute where he can set a salary within the
24
range specified by the legislature.
25
Q.
Okay.
Was there ever any discussion

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184
concerns at that time that I would not have been
party to.
After I began as his legal
counsel, that is when he asked me to look into
the cases, review them for him, and report back
to him.
position in accordance with Iowa Code, the type
of term, the number of years, the duties, the
legal requirements, as well as his duties as
He also asked me to describe the
10
governor for setting the salary as head of the
11
executive branch for these appointed officials,
12
of which Mr. Godfrey would have been one, but
13
there were many people contained within that
14
2008 Iowa Acts that I've referred to previously.
15
16
Q.
Okay.
Didn't you sit through the
governor's deposition?
17
A.
I did.
18
Q.
Okay.
And perhaps I'm misremembering
19
this, but I thought that he tasked you with the
20
duty of investigating Christopher Godfrey.
21
you remember that part of his deposition?
22
A.
Do
I believe that he tasked me with
23
looking up the decisions that he had been asked
24
about and summarizing them for him, reporting
25
back to him, and looking into the rationale in

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295
to the lowest possible amount.

A.
I believe the governor heard from a
variety of people with concerns about workers'
compensation.
of an injured worker and what they would have
said to the governor.
7
8
9
Q.
I don't have specific knowledge
He did not mention that in your
discussions with him; is that correct?

A.
In my discussions with the governor, I
10
do not recall him recounting to me a
11
conversation with an injured worker.
12
discussions were primarily legal in nature
13
relating to his responsibilities as governor.
14
Q.
The
And primarily legal in nature from the
15
standpoint of the business community in the
16
state of Iowa; correct?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
Did you consult with any medical care
19
providers or did the governor consult with any
20
medical care providers to better understand the
21
impact of medical care costs on the cost of
22
doing business?
23
A.
I'm happy to answer that question.
It
24
seems like you're asking if I consulted and if
25
the governor consulted.
And I'm going to try to

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481
with Mr. Johnson?
A.
Pardon?
Q.
Did you ever discuss this exhibit,
Exhibit 85, with your deputy, Mr. Johnson?
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
Tell me -- Tell me what you
discussed with Mr. Johnson.

A.
I believe we discussed the concerns
that ABI had, that they had conveyed to Larry

Johnson, and we discussed the -- the ruling.
Q.
Well, what -- tell me the content of
that discussion, please.

A.
I recall that we discussed that ABI had
14
concerns about what they perceived to be a
15
change in how surveillance evidence could be
16
used and that they were concerned about that,
17
that they were concerned that they needed to be
18
able to use surveillance evidence in certain
19
situations and that that had changed in a way
20
that would make it much more difficult for
21
businesses and job creators to detect claims
22
that -- for workers' compensation that may not
23
be true claims or may be exaggerated.
24
25
Some of the claims, to my memory,

that they were concerned about were those that
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were more subjective in nature rather than
objective.
Q.
What else did you do with respect to
this surveillance order or the memorandum from
ABI?
A.
With respect to this issue, I do
remember discussing it with the governor and
relaying to him the concerns of ABI.
9
10
Q.
Okay.
Anything else that you did?
Did
you meet with ABI about this, for example?
11
A.
12
in person.
13
could have been -- If it was -- I don't recall
14
the exact location of it or how it occurred, but
15
I do recall talking to ABI or ABI
16
representatives in person about this.
17
perhaps others as well.
18
19
Q.
I -- I remember talking to ABI about it

It could have been a meeting or it
All right.
And
Well, with whom at ABI did
you talk about the content of Exhibit 85?
20
A.
I believe Nicole Crain mentioned this
21
to me.
22
legislative contact for ABI.
23
Ralston may have also mentioned it to me.
24
believe there may have been other ABI staff or
25
ABI members or others in the business community
She was and I believe still is the

I believe Mike

(515) 288-4910
And I

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cq

(VIDEO DEPO OF SHARON BRENNA FINDLEY)

would also rely on the research by the attorney

general's office when questions arise.

Who did the research that produced the

workers' compensation cases?

That produced the work -- Which

workers' compensation cases?

The workers' compensation cases listed

by the governor in answer to interrogatories.

My understanding is that employers

during the governor's campaign, during the

transition, and during the governor's term

brought up concerns related to the direction

that workers' compensation was going, and they

would mention specific cases.

time, although not during the campaign and not

before I started with the transition, I would

gather information as requested by the governor

and provide it to him.

looking up to see if what the employer said was

a concern was, in fact, a concern, if it had --

what had happened and briefing the governor on

And that would include

Did -- Did you do that research

yourself, or did you ask staff to do that?

(VIDEO DEPO OF SHARON BRENNA FINDLEY)

asked me about the laws applicable to the

appointment and performance of duties.

What laws did you provide to him?

I told the governor about the

term of the workers' compensation commissioner,

the parts -- described parts of the Iowa Code

that relate to the workers' compensation

commissioner's duties, term.

information about the 2008 Iowa Acts, which

gives the governor the duty to set the

Did you give him citations?

I referred to the information, to my

knowledge, as being in Iowa Code, but I would

not have provided him with a legal citation.

Did you -- Okay.

So you did not cite

You just talked to him?

I talked to him, and I referred to the

statute, but I -- my understanding of legal

citations is that would be something in a legal

document, a very formal citation.

Instead I would say the Iowa Code

provides that and describe what the Iowa Code

provides or I would say the Iowa Acts provide

(VIDEO DEPO OF SHARON BRENNA FINDLEY)

that, and then I would explain the duties in the

Did you have the codes in your hand?

Many times I would.

So you would just hand them to

him or just read them to him?

My typical practice would be if I knew

a question would come up or had been asked a

question, I would grab the book off the shelf in

my office and bring it with me so that I could

Did you do that in this

I would assume that I did.

Was there a formal report provided with