Hall Agenda - Talking about PDD Safety Standards

March 12, 2015

At the meeting Hall members, allies and friends invited Calgary PDD Dr. Alex Hillyard and Yvonne Gaudet
and City of Calgary Chief Building Inspector, Marco Civitarese to the meeting. We wanted to share our
concerns about the new regulation known as the PDD Safety Standards. We began with a simple
introduction and brief overview and then questions and comments.
Here are the notes from the discussion. We agreed to meet again in later April to talk again. Fire sent
their regrets they were not able to attend the meeting. We were later joined by Scott Deederly from the
Mayors office after the end of the meeting and were also sent the notes from the meeting.
Part 1: Introductions: Say your name and what makes you feel safe and unsafe in your home?

I know my neighbours and what make me feel unsafe is I feel fairly new in my community,
I have a ramp in my condo, that makes me feel safe, & I know two of my neighbours, not much
makes me feel unsafe,
It was built to meet my access needs and that makes me feel safer and secure, I dont know very
many of my neighbours,
Drug houses in my neighbourhood across the street and even the one next door makes me feel
unsafe, -If I can go to my supportive roommate if I have a problem, If I have a defensive
roommate that gets defensive and doesnt take it very well, the tension makes me feel unsafe,
Building person close by makes me safe, and when Calgarians keep their neighbourhood clean
and not leave beer cans,
I like living where I am in safe neighbourhood and nice supportive roommate, and I hear people
live in a poorer place in town and dont have the choice to move,
I know lots of my neighbours and own my house and I get to make decisions in my house which
adds to my safety, only when my teenage daughters have friends over,
Having my family around, and my family lives in neighboring neighbourhoods, the neighbours on
both sides I dont know anymore, Jamie-my neighbours, I know them on either side, I live in an
older neighbourhood close to downtown and drug use,
I live in a supportive roommates house, my support worker, there are two new neighbours who
moved in next door, I dont know them very good.
I live in a condo and tried to get my intercom to work, I got it working yesterday, I am now with
Shaw and I feel safe in my apartment as I have SCOPE to count on if anything goes on, my
brother lives up North, I live alone and I get support workers in my home,
I feel safe when I moved in to a dog friendly building and I feel unsafe when I see somethings
like torn down in the elevator and things people are disrespecting in my community, that makes
me feel unsafe,
I feel comfortable and safe because I know my neighbours really well they have really good
friends, we look after each others concerns like shoveling snow, when I see people I dont know
who they are, it raises awareness and my neighbours and myself are always looking out for each
other

I live with my Mom and Dad, I feel unsafe when people who are drunk back into my fence when
they are drunk near the football stadium,
My children make me feel safe, unsafe when the neighbours do drugs and the cops are always
called,
I dont feel safe and I am moving, I dont know the neighbours either and if you dont know who
they are you are not safe
I feel safe with our two attack cats, I felt unsafe when things are out of my control and my rent
goes up and I am unsure what is in the future,
My dog as he barks when he hears strange noises, unsafe slippery sidewalks,
We lived in a condo that was flooded and we were evicted, we now have a building and
emergency plan knowing what to do and my wife is taking swimming lessons, unsafe when there
are certain alarms and buzzers that stay on for a while, it makes me nervous, the care of the
alarms should be more robust, -, I want to be safe at home, I feel happy, today I learned about
human rights and that was good and that makes me feel safer,
Having friends, families, neighbours and dogs in my life, and unsafe, the moose, they are very
big.

Part 2: Overview of The PDD Safety Standards

PDD has been talking with Service Providers about the Standards. About two years ago there was a
regulation that took place and they called it the PDD Safety Standards as a result of several tragedies
like deaths due to fire and scalding. It allowed PDD to look at how we could improve the safety of
individuals. They put in a regulation that has 8 standards, standards 1-7 they have been put in place.
Standard 8 is not as straightforward as we expected. It has an A, B, C and D to it. Standard 8 is
environmental health standards. In Calgary, most of the homes are completed. Standard 8B is the Safety
Codes Act is related to safety codes act related to buildings, building inspections; Standard 8C is fire
safety inspections. Standard 8 D is about Municipal zoning and by-laws.
Standards 8 B, C and D were supposed to implement Standard 8 by April 1st. There are now extensions
and service providers and people can apply for an exemption up to 6 months. In the City of Calgary 135
residences that have to be inspected for standards 1-8. There are 16 other homes that are not in the
City of Calgary but they are in the MD of Bighorn, Cochrane and MD of Rockyview.
We have agencies completing their request for an exemption for 6 months. PDD has been working with
The Chief Building Inspector and team including fire as we want to coordinate the inspection process
and putting a plan to put together the inspections that have to occur. Some people might be living in
Calgary housing, they have to have complex needs and 2 to 3 people living together with disability.
There was the best of the intention PDD wanted to say PDD are living in safe places and there are
certain standards in place and people are living in a safe environment. The Minister of Disability Services
is living in safe environments with some safety checks and balances. The first set of standards looked at
things like bathing protocol, bathing temperature.
Standard 8 is about having peoples home come into compliance of national & provincial codes. It gives
the family, you and us some assurances that we are living in the safest.

Part 3: Questions and Comments:

Q: I live in a building of mixed abilities and some people get Alberta mental health housing (3rd floor)
and some PDD funded homes (2nd floor). If you are in wheelchair, your name is on a list and you dont
evacuate the building (fire safety plan). People under mental health and PDD, the people with mental
health who are also vulnerable are not affected by the standards, it is a mixed code.
We even have homes where people are renting in a house and a person in the basement, but then it
gets murky as it only affects the people on the 1st floor. Ie. One it triggered because of overnight staff
residence but not the person in the basement. If you are receiving PDD Funding that falls within the
regulation, it impacts everyone in the home.
A: When a building is first built, we look at that date and that is where it gets confusing. There are three
types, Treatment facility, related to care, dependency/independency to help categorize the homes.
When the building was built, the designers tell what the building is built for. It also depends if you can
get on your own. In a small home, the requirements are not there only a door or window to get out. And
we check at the standards of getting out. When the window is not big enough, what happens? It is the
responsibility of the owner.
A: Calgary Housing, my front step is coming off my house and Calgary housing will not fix it.
Q: Are condos exempt from Standard 8?
A: PDD looks at the criteria, not the structure. We look at individuals who receive PDD who are
categorized needing complex support or two or more. We are looking at individuals. There are multiple
layers of confusion. There are letters that are going out to address the confusion and the impact. An
individual circumstance in a broad code has impacts.
Q: I live in a condo with another person. We are not able to affect change in the building.
A: The City says the safety codes act would then take control of a condo board to take action.
Q: I live in a condo, in my own apartment, and I get supports. Does that mean the City is coming to
inspect my apartment?
Q: I am still confused, if PDD checked on the 2nd floor, would the people on the 3rd floor be told to
participate in the inspection.
A: No. if the building is already occupied, unless it is really dangerous. I already went through fire safety
and Canadian Mental Health meets with meet every couple of months to make sure I am still alive and I
gave consent for them to meet with meet every two months.
Q: There are no lights going down the sidewalk into my place.
Comment: We need to strike a balance, the physical structure is part of it, and it is also about knowing
your neighbours and standard 8 has put the conversation out of balance. People dont want to live in

institutions and some of these expectations that are not placed on people without disabilities are not
forced, why should some people have to be treated in a certain way while others are not? People live
in the best homes they can that they can afford. We have created a set of policies that dont allow
choice and are frustrated by being treated differently. Its complicated. If you go into a building and
the conditions are not safe to live in, what will happen to the people?
A: PDD will work with who they are to find them safe places to live. If you have to move for whatever
reason and we called the service providers to assist you. You will not be homeless. It needs to be a
concept of balance and having personal dignity. How do we reassure that?
Q: Does Calgary Housing have a right to come into my home every two months and take pictures
every two months? I feel my privacy is being invaded. I dont have staff and there is some stuff I need
help with.
A: It depends on the lease agreement. It has to be written somewhere. A: Exemption processes are in
place right now and the conversations with the City and team putting the process together and
coordinate the inspection process over the next 6 months. We want to have a coordinate response and
we are working with fire. The City of Calgary works very closely with the fire chief and our act and the
fire act, electrical act are under one act.
Q: The Exemption process- who does it cover, how long does it last?
A: The exemption process we have a list of every agency of the residences to be inspected and agencies
are verifying who is on the list. There are 15 services providers who received the list as of yesterday
(march 11). The forms will then be signed off on a 6 month exemption and in the next 6 months and the
inspection only has to occur once. Standard 1-7 happens every year, and once Standard 8 may only
happen once.
A: We got a letter from Health saying they will come back every two years. (It might be environmental) it
is my understanding of B, C, D? What will happen after the six month exemption period? It has yet to be
determined.
Q: We have some fantastic landlords and one is a family member. From the landlords point of view
there is no upside to rent to someone with a disability with PDD supports. As a landlord I dont have to
jump through these hoops unless it is trigged by a complaint. For the landlords why would we do that
when we can rent to someone with more money to somebody else. There is no upside, only a
downside.
A: Landlords make their own personal decisions and if they have to make modification, they have a
decision to make.
A: If we have a property owner that is renting and if the City gets complaints from a secondary suite, we
have never kicked out, a building code official on occupancy, we help them with the rules. There are
other added measures we have to truly have to move (landlord tenancy act) however safety act trumps
it. There have been different ways to address unsafe matters. People have taken out permits and what

they are telling us is not the same thing that happening. When we ask who is living there, they say
someone. We make sure people need to get out.
Comment: Standard B, C and D relate to safety. But with the environmental health speaks to safety? It
is under the Safety standards and what they are looking for? Is it cracked cupboards, hinges are loose,
floor tiles that need to be repaired, issues with doors, mold (some examples) They are looking at
features in the home and are they safe. They are not looking at the building itself- is it not the PDD
Safety Audit dont they look at that? Is it not duplication?
We have also heard homes now have to have dishwashers, own bar of soap, clean laundry basket,
dirty laundry basket. Environmental breakdown, we will need accurate information.
Comment: Look to the notes taken in the South Region in a talk with Environmental Health Inspectors.
http://saipa.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/PDD-Safety-Standards.pdf
A: There are ripple effects to the regulation. We need to flush out the impacts and it becomes a critical
element and to talk at the municipal level. The CEO and SCOPE have had conversations with the Minister
and it is very complicated and there is not a level of clarity/navigation is to occur. We want everyone to
be safe. We need more time.
Comment: Best Practices. The City of Calgary Police Services is creating a vulnerable persons database
as tool. It is a first responder database people can sign up for to help the police, fire, ambulance and
911 centre help you if there is an emergency. It is voluntary and people have to sign up every year. It is
a good tool that is not as heavy handed as Alberta Heath Inspections.
Comment: They basement windows need to be bigger to get out of. What if there are bars in the
front? My basement window is this size and there are no bars. I could get out of my basement
window, all I have to do is break the window.
Comment: Landlords and the health side of the standard response? If this was under the landlord
tenant act that everyone has to do it, they would be okay with that. But they do not. It is not being
triggered by the complaint process.
Q: Our homes passed the safety audit, the windows are to the code. The landlords are concerned that
no other landlords have to go through it that would be fair. Because they have to rent to a PDD Client,
while others dont.
A: Maybe it is a paper exercise, and negates this for that type of inspection. It is an unnecessary process.
City needs access to the records and they were sent to the Health inspector. We want them to be safe.
Comment: Landlords are never going to tell you as peoples leases were ended and they did not want
to invest into the properties and rented to the general public. If landlords are okay with 1-7, it is
standard 8 they are opposed to.

Q: If there is a tile or fridge, how is that unsafe? Is this not caught with standard 1-7? Is there
duplication?
A: Standard 8A is almost finished across the province. The exemptions are for Standard B, C, D. Again
PDD are not the inspectors, we are trying to look at the duplication.
Q: Everyones needs are different. Like my Dad would need a ramp, dials on the stove and would the
inspection considers those things? He needs to know he is turning on the stove way too hot.
A: Adaptions are caught by CET for people who are PDD funded. However people owner occupied,
seniors and people who need adaptions for safety are excluded.
Q: Communal spaces, what if those are unsafe?
A: Performance of a building is a different story.
Q: I dont have water sprinklers in my condo.
A: Give us some time to walk through the what ifs.
Q: There are ripple effects to many different people and situations. Is there some kind of fund if
modifications that need to be made to offset the costs? There was an 80 million $ fund for certain
senior care facilities.
Comment- Family Managed Care and marriage exemptions. It is not fair and human rights said it is
discrimination.
Q: It is not a requirement to have a hand rail for a small set of stairs?
A: Unless it is more than three stairs. It is not something we can enforce.
Q: ACDS is looking at address safety in that way, will ACDS be invited to the tables to this discussion
about impact and unintended consequences?
Comment: Has anything gone out to families and guardians around this. Families are an oversight. I
am pretty sure that dont know has anything come from PDD to say this is happening. When the
safety standards were first send out a mass communications about the standards. Nothing has gone
out about standard 8. If families were involved that there has been no involvement with families. A
conversation with the guardians, who are the guardians?
Comment: We have small windows in the basement. Small windows in our basement, I dont know
how we would get out.
Comment: Lethbridge has a $ 225,000 housing fund for secondary suites, however very few
understand if they put in a bigger window, you now have touched the structure, then the whole home
now has to be brought up to 2006 building code.

A: We appreciate the tact and care approaching guardians about the standards. It is a very good point
we have not sent out notices to the guardians since the water regulator discussion.
Q: What do we tell people? We know some people are aware of it as they have had inspections and
dont know the income. We are struggling to keep anxiety down and keep people informed. There is a
process in place to get a better understanding and regardless you will not be homeless.
A: PDD is working with the municipality and we will be doing our best to maintain peoples dignity and
PDD needs service providers help to reduce peoples anxiety.
Q: What if somebody does not give consent? Such as an individual or guardian?
A: Lynne Navartriel of Alberta Health Services said Alberta Health can enter without consent. However
they do not want to enter the house unless there is consent. PDD does not want to be heavy handed.
Comment: Calgary does not have congregate licensing (Edmonton) that creates another layer of
additional red tape and it is a different discussion.
We agreed to meet in later April when there is more understanding of Standard 8 B, C and D.