Sie sind auf Seite 1von 65

Blackdragon

Letting Women Get To You - Getting Upset At Their Behaviors


I've seen a number of threads lately with a similar theme. I am not talking
about one specific poster...I've seen at least four separate posters do
something like this lately. The threads generally go like this:
OP: I have this problem with this girl (or girls) and it really makes me mad!
Posters Respond: Next, or ignore for three weeks, or fuck someone else, or
similar.
OP: Yeah, I know I'm supposed to do that and I don't have oneitis but I don't
want to that because this really makes me mad! What I think I should do is
<some variation of stay involved>. This stuff just pisses me off sometimes!
A few things about anger:
1. Anger is outcome dependence. This is bad. Yes, I realize there is a
growing movement of guys who thinks outcome independence is somehow
bad or wrong. These men are mistaken. There is nothing good about outcome
dependence in these contexts, and there is nothing good about anger in these
situations either.
If you really didn't give a shit, if you really didn't have oneitis, if you really are
fucking lots of other girls who are as hot or hotter and as cool or cooler than
the one (or ones) you're talking about, then trust me, you would not be mad
at all. You would just snort, roll your eyes, and get back to your life, your
Mission, and/or your other women.
You can say "I'm not like that" or "I don't have oneitis" or "I don't have scarcity
mentality" all you want. The fact that you're getting angry means you care
way too much.
2. Anger is drama. This is bad. Yes, there are indeed some posters on these
forums who love verbalization, love rules, and love drama (though they won't
admit this). Feel free to take their advice if you wish. But if you want to be a
happy person living a happy, harmonious life, anger should only be something
that occurs very rarely, and even then only when something truly dreadful
happens.
I've used this example before but I'll use it again because it so apropos. The
last time I was actually angry, where I was upset and raising my voice in
anger, was about 13 or 14 years ago when my house was robbed and my
family was terrified. That's right, 13 or 14 years ago. And notice what it took
to get me angry. A thief breaking into my home, stealing thousands of dollars

worth of my stuff, and terrifying my wife at the time and my small children.
(There may have been one or two incidents during my divorce where I raised
my voice too...but even with those you still have to go back a full 7 or 8
years.)
Are you getting my point? If you get angry because some woman blows you
off or one of your FBs/MLTRs does something stupid or confusing, you really
have some inner game to work on. I'm not kidding.
Remember this quote: You can tell the size of the man by the size of the
things that make him mad.
3. Anger is often an indication of a lack of a strong life Mission. We
are men. Men, at least happy men, need Missions. When you have a clearly
defined, strongly compelling, deeply exciting Mission in your life, it's usually
harder to get mad at the small stuff.
If you don't have a Mission, spend some time and find one. I'll admit this isn't
always easy. But neither is getting mad all the time.
4. Anger simply a mutated version of fear. I fully agree with the
psychologists who assert that all negative emotions stem from fear. This
includes anger. If you're angry, you're not actually angry...you're afraid.
Whenever you get mad, pause, take a few deep breaths, and ask yourself,
"What am I afraid of?" You may be surprised to find that the person or persons
you're mad at have nothing to do with the real reasons you feel angry.
5. Anger in the woman-side of your life is almost always the result of
a perceived lack of options. This means that if you're pissed about
something a woman is doing, it's because you've got some scarcity mentality,
somewhere, on some level.
"No I don't! I fuck lots of chicks and I'm working on like 4 other women right
now!"
Yes, you do. While I commend your actions, mentally you still feel like what
you have is not enough. You need to come to a complete stop and evaluate
why this is. A few possibilities might be:
1. You may think the women you have aren't very high quality.
2. You may think the odds of actually laying the current women you're working
on is low.
3. You may have "mini-oneitis", thinking that the woman you're currently mad
about is your "best" one, and it would be time-consuming and/or difficult to
replace her.
Those are just guesses...it could be something else. But you need to figure

what it is.
Lastly, just to offset an objection I know I'm going to get: I realize that more
emotional guys are going to be angry more often and get pissed off more
easily than men with more even-keel, rational personalities. I also know that
men raised by single mothers, or very bitchy mothers, or very weak fathers
are going to be more prone to losing their cool when it comes to women.
I completely get this and I fully understand. That still doesn't mean you can
use your personality or upbringing as an excuse for the rest of your life. All of
us have our own weaknesses and failings. I certainly have many. But a man's
goal should be to improve these areas, not make excuses for them and throw
their arms in the air in surrender every time they get upset.
The next time a woman does something that makes you mad, remember this
post.

12-01-2013, 07:43 PM

DNYC
Anger is ego (I go with the Buddhists on this one rather than the
psychologists). It's not enough to know you're right, you have to hear her say
it. It drives you nuts for your right-ness to go unacknowledged. That's just
stupid pride. When you let a woman drive you nuts, it's because you can't
bear the idea that she's giving you shit, which must mean she doesn't
acknowledge your alpha playerness. Guys will often blow themselves out
foolishly attempting to assert dominance, when they'd get further by walking
away and letting her catch up.
You're right to argue, angrily even, if there's something on the line - a
professional dispute that can affect your profit or your career trajectory, for
example. Most of the time there's nothing like that on the line, whether you're
arguing with a woman or, ahem, someone on an internet discussion board.
Most of the time it's just two idiots in a pissing contest with no prize.
When I see that a fruitless argument is escalating - when there's nothing I
stand to gain or lose except imaginary points for being right - I'll just go, "k,
whatever" and take my attention elsewhere. It's worked wonders for my
relations with women.

12-01-2013, 07:55 PM

tryhard
Thanks for this BD. Found it really valuable :)

12-01-2013, 10:04 PM

hey_lover
Women seem to equate anger with passion, fire, and desire. I've heard several
state that I was lifeless and lacked passion when I refused to engage in a fiery
confrontation.
12 Angry Men is a great film. The one starring Henry Fonda.

12-01-2013, 10:10 PM

Boobadoos
Quote:

Originally Posted by hey_lover


Women seem to equate anger with passion, fire, and desire. I've heard
several state that I was lifeless and lacked passion when I refused to
engage in a fiery confrontation.
12 Angry Men is a great film. The one starring Henry Fonda.

yes it is, I'm going to see the play version this week, and henry fonda is
certainly an interesting character

12-01-2013, 10:22 PM

Present
Quote:

Originally Posted by hey_lover

Women seem to equate anger with passion, fire, and desire. I've heard
several state that I was lifeless and lacked passion when I refused to
engage in a fiery confrontation.

I am only beginning to understand the category of freaks, but I'm gonna guess
here that the ones who said that to you were freaks who live for drama.
Passion, to me, is a different thing. It's passion FOR your missions, your art,
social justice, the breathtaking wonder of sexual tension. . . That's hot as hell.
But having a fiery lover's spat? That's for the birds. In my biased opinion,
wanting that kind of passion in your relationships is a sign of mental
unbalance. I think BlackDragon and I are in agreement on this. But who am I
to judge. Maybe it's just a different flavor.
As for how to respond to the women who want, or think they want, Streetcar
Named Desire passions in their lives? I mean, if you want to be in sexual
relationship with one or more of those women? I am guessing that when they
made a bid for a confrontation, they just wanted to feel something, anything.
You probably did indeed go dull, flat to avoid reinforcing their behavior. Not a
bad choice, if you want them to go away. If you want them around, give them
a feeling, any feeling, and you can choose not to allow it to be anger etc. You
can choose to make them laugh instead. To do those things called push-pull
and open loops that build suspense, and changing the subject, keeping them
on their toes. What do you think?

12-01-2013, 10:42 PM

Horny
This is perfect. This is what I wish my weak father could have taught me
(well, he didn't know either). But I guess it's never too late to learn, thank you!

12-01-2013, 10:43 PM

Boobadoos
street car named desire, 12 angry men, present I love you, this is the coolest
thread on the forum,
btw present, whilst on this forum, do you ever find yourself feeling like
blanche towards the end of the play?

12-01-2013, 11:09 PM

tryhard
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobadoos


street car named desire, 12 angry men, present I love you, this is the
coolest thread on the forum,
btw present, whilst on this forum, do you ever find yourself feeling like
blanche towards the end of the play?

Please try and stay on topic. This is a great post from BD and you are derailing
the thread. There is a PM function for 1-2-1 messages.

12-01-2013, 11:35 PM

animal
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


Remember this quote: You can tell the size of the man by the size of
the things that make him mad.

Wow, nice quote and so accurate. I used to ask myself in difficult situations
with girls "what would a guy with 5 girlfriends do in this situation?" and the
answer was usually that he would laugh about it and go on with his day. Great
post!!

12-01-2013, 11:41 PM

Silvertree

Quote:

Please try and stay on topic. This is a great post from BD and you are
derailing the thread. There is a PM function for 1-2-1 messages.

He does have a point. This is called Threadjacking. Please start a new post on
your favorite movies.
The part about women liking passion and instigating drama is illustrative.
What would you girls do when you get ignored for a few days as a tactic to cut
dramatic scenes? BD's women stop that behavior. It works for him. It has
worked for me, and eliminated 99% of the stupid fights in my house.
In my book, passion is letting the animal magnetism flow, which is different
from drama, which is starting fights over trivialities because you need
emotional stimulation.

12-02-2013, 12:02 AM

Boobadoos
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


4. Anger simply a mutated version of fear. I fully agree with the
psychologists who assert that all negative emotions stem from fear. This
includes anger. If you're angry, you're not actually angry...you're afraid.
Whenever you get mad, pause, take a few deep breaths, and ask
yourself, "What am I afraid of?" You may be surprised to find that the
person or persons you're mad at have nothing to do with the real reasons
you feel angry.

Arguably, anger is the most direct result of fear. When we were cavemen (and
women, before anybody calls me a troll) anger was a useful byproduct of fear,
increasing stress levels on the body as well as adrenaline to prepare for a

successful fight or flight response. These guys were running away from 10 foot
bears and huge mammoths....a girl, her ex boyfriend, the guys/girls who might
gossip about you because you hit on their friend...they are not huge bears and
mammoths.
I suggest (and I do this religiously otherwise I might turn into a freaky drama
queen) beginning somewhat of a project whereby you take it one day at a
time to do something exhilarating and frightening that you haven't done
before. Begin with little things like smiling at a girl in a coffee shop, next day
asking her what she's reading, then crazy ass fucking her.
It's a long journey but perhaps it's worth it.
Interesting article which touches on guilt as well as fear and how it relates to
anger:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-hurt-and-fear

12-02-2013, 12:07 AM

Boobadoos
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertree


What would you girls do when you get ignored for a few days as a tactic
to cut dramatic scenes?

Wait for the soft next to be over, meanwhile every now and then sending
sweet messages to see if the ice has melted, once it has, act like nothing
happened, cook him his favorite meal, blow him well and fuck his brains out.

12-02-2013, 12:44 AM

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by DNYC


Anger is ego (I go with the Buddhists on this one rather than the
psychologists). It's not enough to know you're right, you have to hear
her say it.

Great point and I agree. I just made a post here about how the Needy Alpha's
goal is to be heard. Right on.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobadoos


Anger stemming from the need to protect peace and justice is healthy
anger and is quite sexy

Perhaps, but that kind of anger has no place whatsoever in a sexual situation
or a romantic relationship.

12-02-2013, 12:53 AM

0--Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


Lastly, just to offset an objection I know I'm going to get: I realize that
more emotional guys are going to be angry more often and get pissed off
more easily than men with more even-keel, rational personalities. I also
know that men raised by single mothers, or very bitchy mothers, or very
weak fathers are going to be more prone to losing their cool when it
comes to women.
I completely get this and I fully understand. That still doesn't mean you
can use your personality or upbringing as an excuse for the rest of your

life. All of us have our own weaknesses and failings. I certainly have
many. But a man's goal should be to improve these areas, not make
excuses for them and throw their arms in the air in surrender every time
they get upset.

As a guy on the more extreme emotional end of the "emotional/rational"


spectrum I wholeheartedly agree with this part especially. In fact, learning to
next has been a major improvement for my overall well-being not for its
disciplining effect on the other, but for the effect it has on my own emotional
world. I calm down, get perspective and approach relationships more
maturely. I next girls, friends, and family alike if their behaviour pisses me off
or upsets me in any way. Then I come back and reengage in a much more
peaceful and constructive way. I'll still take my consequences if somebody
disappointed me, but in a more thought-through, "wise" manner.
Big fat clap for you, BD.

12-02-2013, 01:43 AM

Boobadoos
Blackdragon I respect you very much, think you are very intelligent, and know
that you can throw me off this forum if you feel like it. But you have been
contradicting what you say as well as what I say each time you have quoted
me. Now because you are highly intelligent, I believe you're doing this on
purpose.
As a woman (I know you're all thinking 'here we go') I find guys with a heroic,
humanitarian mission deriving from anger at injustice and the need to protect
(note when men fraught real wars) very SEXY. If a guy had such a mission and
is successful at it, then it reflects that he is successful in his
society/environment and this means that he is successful with people and,
well, women too.
Now there are girls out there with lower self esteem who wouldn't find that
attractive. So maybe my point doesn't apply.
I posted a video in the general section about my crush Peter Doherty and he
has a mission which in my opinion is very humanitarian. His lyrics are very
politically charged, at times angry and philosophical.
I also personally think that girls find it attractive when they are with a guy who
is very combative and angry when he needs to be, but is always kind to her.
When she does something to annoy him, he doesn't get angry, merely
soft/nexts or HARD NEXTS.
Ps: me writing this post is an example of constructively tackling fear in the
face of adversity.

Blackdragon's response will be an example of how not to get angry (hopefully)


All in all great post Blackdragon!

12-02-2013, 02:04 AM

thecostofsuccess
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobadoos


Blackdragon I respect you very much, think you are very intelligent, and
know that you can throw me off this forum if you feel like it. But you have
been contradicting what you say as well as what I say each time you
have quoted me. Now because you are highly intelligent, I believe you're
doing this on purpose.
As a woman (I know you're all thinking 'here we go') I find guys with a
heroic, humanitarian mission deriving from anger at injustice and the
need to protect (note when men fraught real wars) very SEXY. If a guy
had such a mission and is successful at it, then it reflects that he is
successful in his society/environment and this means that he is
successful with people and, well, women too.
Now there are girls out there with lower self esteem who wouldn't find
that attractive. So maybe my point doesn't apply.
I posted a video in the general section about my crush Peter Doherty and
he has a mission which in my opinion is very humanitarian. His lyrics are
very politically charged, at times angry and philosophical.
I also personally think that girls find it attractive when they are with a guy
who is very combative and angry when he needs to be, but is always kind
to her. When she does something to annoy him, he doesn't get angry,
merely soft/nexts or HARD NEXTS.
Ps: me writing this post is an example of constructively tackling fear in
the face of adversity.
Blackdragon's response will be an example of how not to get angry
(hopefully)
All in all great post Blackdragon!

Fascinating.
I imagine its similar to how a woman with motivation is more attractive than a
lazy chick.

I suspect that Boobadoos is talking about what we often get annoyed at,
people with no spine, no instinct to self improve or be more.
I think there are two kinds of anger, one that motivates you healthily and one
that is petty.
The healthy anger is attractive, when it turns petty, not so much.
Guys need the right kind of gusto to take on challenge otherwise, they will
take it on wrong and fail.
Quote:

I completely get this and I fully understand. That still doesn't mean you
can use your personality or upbringing as an excuse for the rest of your
life. All of us have our own weaknesses and failings. I certainly have
many. But a man's goal should be to improve these areas, not make
excuses for them and throw their arms in the air in surrender every time
they get upset.

(this was black dragons)


He's talking about having spine imo. You can't be a whinging "woe is me"
dude.
Thats what Boobadoos is kinda getting at too, but from the outside in.
Edit: This is also a trait that can signal that the guy likes the girl, rather than
being dismissive in a shitty way (such as most rejections).
It is a better way to gain her respect, to have spine, than to tell her you like
her, cuz its kinda a similar thing (in the girls eyes) just without neediness.

12-02-2013, 02:18 AM

Boobadoos
Quote:

Originally Posted by thecostofsuccess

Fascinating.
I imagine its similar to how a woman with motivation is more attractive
than a lazy chick.
I suspect that Boobadoos is talking about what we often get annoyed at,
people with no spine, no instinct to self improve or be more.
I think there are two kinds of anger, one that motivates you healthily and
one that is petty.
The healthy anger is attractive, when it turns petty, not so much.
Guys need the right kind of gusto to take on challenge otherwise, they
will take it on wrong and fail.

(this was black dragons)


He's talking about having spine imo. You can't be a whinging "woe is me"
dude.
Thats what Boobadoos is kinda getting at too, but from the outside in.

Yes that's what I meant

12-02-2013, 04:34 AM

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobadoos


Blackdragon I respect you very much, think you are very intelligent, and
know that you can throw me off this forum if you feel like it.

My sweet, you can only get kicked off the forum by violating the Posting Rules.
There is no posting rule that states "never disagree with Blackdragon". No one
will ever get kicked off this forum for disagreeing with anyone, especially me.
(There are several long-time posters on here who actually hate me and/or
disagree with just about everything I say. They're still there, and will stay here
forever as long as they don't break the Posting Rules.)

Quote:

But you have been contradicting what you say as well

Please tell me exactly where I have contradicted myself.


Quote:

As a woman (I know you're all thinking 'here we go') I find guys with a
heroic, humanitarian mission deriving from anger at injustice and the
need to protect (note when men fraught real wars) very SEXY. If a guy
had such a mission and is successful at it, then it reflects that he is
successful in his society/environment and this means that he is
successful with people and, well, women too.

I agree.
I said, and I quote: that kind of anger has no place whatsoever in a sexual
situation or a romantic relationship. It's an attractive quality he has, but that
is something he is demonstrating outside of his relationship with you, not in it.
Quote:

I also personally think that girls find it attractive when they are with a guy
who is very combative and angry when he needs to be, but is always kind
to her.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about men who get mad at her.
Moreover and more importantly, if you get into a relationship with a guy who
"gets combative and angry" when he "needs to be" with everyone except you,

it's only a matter of time before he gets combative and angry at you. To think
otherwise would be Disney.

12-02-2013, 06:50 AM

thecostofsuccess
I think she is saying that aggression is good.
So for example, growling a bit and being rough :P
Or turning to her, and making her freak out because you are going to come
and get her etc.
She's assuming that your advice applies to the foreplay aspects etc, when it
applies to internal frustration. I guess she's assuming that because girls never
see the inside of a man's head, so is missing the context.

12-02-2013, 07:05 AM

hangman
I had an interesting experience with "anger" right after my divorce. Three or four women
that I was dating told me I seemed angry. Now if it was one chick who said this, I'd have
ignored this, but 3 or 4 saying the same thing meant something was going on. (Also there
is something I have noticed that white chicks generally speaking assume that brown guys
always look pissed off :) ) But I did have some unresolved anger at that time, and I think
that feedback was useful for me in the long run.
Thankfully, I haven't even had a bit of drama with my girls in the last 1.5 years now. I think
it is also because you attract a better quality person when you are in a better head space.
On related topics- I am massively guilty of wanting to "make my point", even when
sometimes I know for a fact that I am right. I cannot let go, I am a little bitch.
Luckily it doesn't happen with women, but only with my old buddies when we are arguing
about some completely useless philosophical shit. Or when I am debating on ..ummm... a
certain online forum :D

12-02-2013, 07:08 AM

hangman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


(There are several long-time posters on here who actually hate me and/or
disagree with just about everything I say. They're still there, and will stay
here forever as long as they don't break the Posting Rules.)

Mwahahhaha. Mwaaahahhhahhaha. Mwaaaaaahhaahhhaaaaahhhaa

12-02-2013, 07:31 AM

Silvertree
The truth is, we put up with quite a bit that is technically against the rules
because we value freedom of speech.
We also value people addressing each other in a manner that is respectful and
polite.
The only people who have been kicked off were trolls, spammers, & people
who posted nearly all crap. We have tolerated many who are overly combative
and unable to get along with others because we wanted their voices to be
heard. I keep hoping that the restraint we have shown in moderation will be
repaid with a bit of restraint in the tone and style of the membership's posts.
Just my 2 cents worth.

12-02-2013, 07:37 AM

hangman
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertree

The truth is, we put up with quite a bit that is technically against the rules
because we value freedom of speech.
We also value people addressing each other in a manner that is
respectful and polite.
The only people who have been kicked off were trolls, spammers, &
people who posted nearly all crap. We have tolerated many who are
overly combative and unable to get along with others because we wanted
their voices to be heard. I keep hoping that the restraint we have shown
in moderation will be repaid with a bit of restraint in the tone and style of
the membership's posts.
Just my 2 cents worth.

I have to go because I am at work, but your effort is highly appreciated.


The only person that I was a little rough with was that girl who was being
annoying on the other thread, she deserved a little slap on the wrist and the
mods weren't doing it, so maybe I went a little vigilante on her ass. :D
But apart from that, even on my very sharp disagreements with NWP, I have
tried to pick my words carefully.

12-02-2013, 10:03 AM

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobadoos


Notice how you said (when talking whether woman can be honest):
'No, they can not. This is why women with a judgmental, domineering,
control-freak boyfriend always end up either cheating on him behind his
back or leaving him for good. Needy Alpha 1.0s do get laid and pull ass,
but have a very hard time getting women to stick around longer than a
year or two at best.'
See if you read my comments I clearly wasn't talking about a 'judgental,
domineering, control-freak boyfriend' in fact I was talking about the
opposite.

(This isn't the other contradiction, just another point I want to make, the
other contradiction I will deal with last)

Yeah, that wasn't a contradiction, that was an illustration. I wasn't


contradicting you in any way.
Quote:

I'm not saying guys need to be combative and angry all the time at
everybody, just when it's necessary and at people who deserve it. For
instance my boyfriend has never hit me except for slapping my arse
when we're fucking, I honestly don't think he ever will hurt me, but if us
two go out for a night out and some drunk dudes start harassing me then
I can count on him to protect me.

That's wonderful and absolutely not what I'm talking about.


I think we're just talking past each other here.
Quote:

Since I find protective guys attractive and sexy, reasons for it are set out
above, how can it not have no place in a sexual situation whatsoever? I
mean you said that the protective anger may be attractive to a woman
outside the relationship, but this is still attraction and she will still think
'wow what a sexy guy'

You're not understanding that being protective does not require being angry or
dramatic. I can be, and have been, very protective of my women without
getting angry or dramatic at all.
Alpha 2.0 Example:
You're out with your BF at bar, and a guy shoves you. Your BF grabs the guy by
the arm, hard, gives him a piercing stare, and says, "You'd better not shove
her again." The guy nods, your BF nods back and smiles, releases him, and

moves on. That's the end of it.


Alpha 1.0 Example:
You're out with your BF at bar, and a guy glances at you. Your BF runs up to
him, gets in his face, and screams, "You lookin' at my girlfriend mother
fucker!?! The FUCK you think you're doing???" The sputters and says, "Hey,
sorry..." and your BF interrupts and screams, "The FUCK is wrong with you? I'll
fucking kill you...." Then we have drama at the bar with everyone, including
the guy's friends.
My guess is you'd probably think both of the above would be attractive at
least a little. My point is that the second guy is behaving very, very poorly,
and not taking any of the advice I gave in the OP.
The second guy is doing anger and drama. Both of which are bad.
The first guy is doing neither anger or drama. He's just protecting his girl,
which doesn't require either.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thecostofsuccess


I think she is saying that aggression is good.
So for example, growling a bit and being rough :P
Or turning to her, and making her freak out because you are going to
come and get her etc.
She's assuming that your advice applies to the foreplay aspects etc,
when it applies to internal frustration. I guess she's assuming that
because girls never see the inside of a man's head, so is missing the
context.

Yeah I think you're right. I think it's just a slight difference in context.

12-02-2013, 10:07 AM

donkaktus
Quote:

Originally Posted by thecostofsuccess


Fascinating.
I imagine its similar to how a woman with motivation is more attractive
than a lazy chick.
I suspect that Boobadoos is talking about what we often get annoyed at,
people with no spine, no instinct to self improve or be more.
I think there are two kinds of anger, one that motivates you healthily and
one that is petty.
The healthy anger is attractive, when it turns petty, not so much.
Guys need the right kind of gusto to take on challenge otherwise, they
will take it on wrong and fail.

I totally agree with that... it's sort of a "fire in the belly" thing, not a "lemme
get angry because it's raining today" thing.
I have a coworker who is one of these spineless whiners, and I really can't
stand him. I treat him badly, which is (I admit) less than noble, but damn... He
brings out the worst in me. With some other guys who are needy alphas (even
whiny needy alphas) I get along fine, cause at least they're trying.
Anyway, I love the part that says "You can judge the size of the man by the
size of the things that make him angry." I'm going to remember that. Thanks
BD!

12-02-2013, 10:36 AM

Assman
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


You're not understanding that being protective does not require being
angry or dramatic. I can be, and have been, very protective of my women
without getting angry or dramatic at all.

I'll add my perspective and leave it up to ladies choice to decide on what


resonates closest to the real world.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


Alpha 2.0 Example:
You're out with your BF at bar, and a guy shoves you. Your BF grabs the
guy by the arm, hard, gives him a piercing stare, and says, "You'd better
not shove her again." The guy nods, your BF nods back and smiles,
releases him, and moves on. That's the end of it.

This is straight up classic alpha male dominating from a place of self-respect.


Before you give me shit I have already posted the exact same advice a month
ago on another thread.
Quote:

Alpha 1.0 Example:


You're out with your BF at bar, and a guy glances at you. Your BF runs up
to him, gets in his face, and screams, "You lookin' at my girlfriend mother
fucker!?! The FUCK you think you're doing???" The sputters and says,
"Hey, sorry..." and your BF interrupts and screams, "The FUCK is wrong
with you? I'll fucking kill you...." Then we have drama at the bar with
everyone, including the guy's friends.

This is overcompensating beta male trying to dominate from a place of


insecurity.
Women will agree that this behaviour is repulsive even if it flatters her ego she will lose respect for him due to lack of self-control thus not Alpha Male
behaviour.

12-02-2013, 10:52 AM

SA1980
Great post BD

12-02-2013, 01:06 PM

ObeyX
This whole thread was very helpful, Good posts from BD and everyone.
Appreciate it.

12-02-2013, 02:53 PM

Tortuga
I agree with everyone that this has been a very helpful thread. Hall of Fame?

12-02-2013, 05:39 PM

Present
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertree


He does have a point. This is called Threadjacking. Please start a new
post on your favorite movies.
The part about women liking passion and instigating drama is illustrative.
What would you girls do when you get ignored for a few days as a tactic
to cut dramatic scenes? BD's women stop that behavior. It works for him.
It has worked for me, and eliminated 99% of the stupid fights in my
house.
In my book, passion is letting the animal magnetism flow, which is
different from drama, which is starting fights over trivialities because you
need emotional stimulation.

Silvertree, I heard you when you said you learned some things about sex or
relationships from women in your early life. I hope to be open to learning from
men; that's why I'm here. I TRY to add valuable things on this forum, and I try
to speak from my experience rather than KJing.
I'm not sure I have a valuable answer for this current question of what
happens when a man ignores me to cut down on drama, because I haven't
done drama in a long time. I don't yell. I don't have much reason to yell; men
are treating me wonderfully. I just thank my partners and tell them what is
great about our interactions.
In the badder older days, when I got into a fight, I tended to talk "logically"
about why he was all wrong to do X or Y, and then he would talk or yell back,
and then I was the one who gave the silent treatment. Not a true next in any
sense of the word. Maybe we should distinguish on this forum between true
nexting and manipulative resentful silent-treating. In any case, silent
treatment and smoldering resentment USED to be my go-to, and so I don't
remember being nexted. I don't remember saying, "You're not paying
attention to me!" I do remember asking for what I wanted or needed or
thought I needed, and getting told, "yes, I will do that," and repeatedly not
having follow-thru. That also wasn't a useful response on my partner's part
either.

12-02-2013, 06:41 PM

zylya
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


Great point and I agree. I just made a post here about how the Needy
Alpha's goal is to be heard. Right on.

This is my biggest sticking point these days. It's the whole 'being right isn't
enough' thing. I don't want to control (the other primary objective in your
other post) which means I'm halfway there, but I HATE not being heard or
listened to. And it's not even the whole ignoring thing - I simply ignore in
return, it's when you say something but nothing changes. I know it's obviously
a weakness, and one that I should work to resolve, but I just have no idea how
to at this stage.

12-02-2013, 07:25 PM

JimmyChonga
Quote:

Originally Posted by zylya


..It's the whole 'being right isn't enough' thing...I HATE not being heard or
listened to.

I only became aware of it recently - how important it is to for me to "be


heard". its interesting, I dont think I remember reading about that behavior
previous to this post. anyways - I have thought about it before, and here is my
take.
One aspect of the feeling of a need to "be heard" (for me) is losing sight of my
own center of gravity. I have a habit of attaching to thoughts and letting them
drive me, I get lost in the weeds of thought tangents (maybe not even my
own) and since I do not have a foot in my own reality I am out of tune with my
own self-interests. if I were in tune then I could see "this conversation doesnt
serve me" or "walk away" or whatever it is. instead I am grasping for
something solid to stand on.
Another reason why I am pulled to "being heard" seems to be a desire to not
have people pissed off at me unfairly. im not sure if its a moral or ethical
thing. I want to work things out, to "process". I feel I am right, and I need the
other person to hear my side of the story. I am open to hearing what they
have to say and how they see it. Lets work through it so we could all get along
and be friends, or at least not part ways on bad terms. I guess it sounds like I
havent internalized the idea that "you cant please everyone".
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


You can tell the size of the man by the size of the things that
make him mad.

yes, I too have a soft spot for simple, elegant solutions :) Im curious tho.
suppose one man has his life seemingly together, smiley, emotionally stable,
etc. but interacting with one certain family member drives him nuts, literally
in minutes there is uncontrolled rage. is that a big rock
(http://www.appleseeds.org/Big-Rocks_Covey.htm)? who does the judging?
another example - a guy who grew up in a religious environment, super strict
and very sexually conservative and works himself to a place where he is OK
with premarital sex, anal sex, even considers non-monogamy, and no longer
sold on traditional marriage. compare that to a natural born in Miami or NYC
who, on top of the above characteristics, also has a few FBs in rotation. it may
be argued that the first guy would have more things "make him mad", but
which man was more courageous, which man traveled farther? point is - I am
not sure how the quote is a scalable tool from one person to the next. Im not
even sure how its a useful tool for me - I have my own experience to compare
with, and it may not be sufficient to appropriately judge another with.

12-02-2013, 11:16 PM

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


which man traveled farther? point is - I am not sure how the quote is a
scalable tool from one person to the next. Im not even sure how its a
useful tool for me - I have my own experience to compare with, and it
may not be sufficient to appropriately judge another with.

The question is not "Which man traveled father?" That's completely irrelevant.
As Dan Kennedy says, when you deposit a big check, the bank doesn't ask you
how hard you worked for that check, then and refuses to deposit it if you
didn't work ""hard enough" for the money. You get the money, period, no
matter how hard or how easy the money came to you.
The question is "Which man is happier?"
Long-term consistent happiness is the goal above all others. At least in my
world.

12-02-2013, 11:46 PM

JimmyChonga
I think that this post about anger is on the whole insightful and very valuable.
thank you for writing it. I should have lead with that in my first comment, but
ill slip it in now.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


The question is not "Which man traveled father?" That's completely
irrelevant. As Dan Kennedy says, when you deposit a big check, the bank
doesn't ask you how hard you worked for that check, then and refuses to
deposit it if you didn't work ""hard enough" for the money. You get the
money, period, no matter how hard or how easy the money came to you.
The question is "Which man is happier?"
Long-term consistent happiness is the goal above all others. At least in
my world.

Im not sure this analogy is accurate. Its like if I meet a guy at a bar and need
to size him up quickly for a fight, in that moment. thats what it sounds like to
me. can a man deposit $500 into a bank account? sure, in that instant yes,
and nobody cares where it came from.
But thats not what we are talking about, at least I think we arent. What I think
we are talking about is a more holistic "sizing a guy up" (..and you further
contextualize that in a way to gear things to determine long-term consistent
happiness). in the words of your analogy - that would entail knowing his bank
balance at the time of deposit, as well as seeing his bank history,
understanding the frequency of deposits and withdrawls. is the graph of his
net worth moving "up and to the right", and at what rate? to translate that
back into the terms of my analogy - on a given day two guys make identical
deposits into their accounts, resulting in identical balances. However, bank
records show one of the guys opened the account 2 years ago with 100K
deposit from his dad. which man left to his own devices do you think will have
more money in the account 2 years down the road?

12-03-2013, 12:02 AM

tryhard

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


What I think we are talking about is a more holistic "sizing a guy up"

You are getting too theoretical. What matters to a woman is who you are NOW.
If you are total nutcase, but used to be so much worse, you aren't gonna get
extra credit. There are loads of guys who are normal NOW - a woman with
options will choose one of them.
God can judge how far you've come. Humans live in the here and now. Life is
unfair. Some people have had to come much further than others.

12-03-2013, 12:29 AM

JimmyChonga
Quote:

Originally Posted by tryhard


..What matters to a woman is who you are NOW. If you are total nutcase,
but used to be so much worse, you aren't gonna get extra credit. There
are loads of guys who are normal NOW - a woman with options will
choose one of them..

sure, all true, but its outside the scope of what is being discussed, we arent
talking about how women reason things out. the OP pertains to inner game
work around male anger. the quote deviates from inner game a bit, bust still
totally nothing to do with how women go about things. Aside from very few
women, exceptions to the rule, most wouldnt think twice about a statement
like "you can tell the size of a man by size of the things which make him mad",
let alone use it as a tool in their lives.
EDIT: I have been thinking about this some more. I am now less certain than I
previously was about how women operate in this regard. a number of years

ago I was in a relationship with a woman who purposely made me angry as a


strategy. not little shit tests about what annoys and irritates me, but really
working me up into a yelling red-faced rage (which is extremelyuncommon for
me). I caught onto it and called her out on it, and she said something along
the lines of "how else am I supposed to figure out your buttons". nevermind
how the situation got to that point, how it was handled, or how she learned to
do that. point is - on some levels she knew to do it. I have not had the
experience some others have with the number of relationships, as well as the
cultural diversity of women, so its possible this is more common than I initially
thought (feedback welcome on that..)
regardless, the quote applies to me in one of two possible ways. the first is to
judge myself. the second - and this is what I am saying I have a problem with is a method to judge other men. its possible I am building up a straw man, but
that is my read of the intention of the quote.

12-03-2013, 04:19 PM

tryhard
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


Aside from very few women, exceptions to the rule, most wouldnt think
twice about a statement like "you can tell the size of a man by size of the
things which make him mad", let alone use it as a tool in their lives.

I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle. It doesn't matter what
women consciously think about. It matters how they respond.
I believe the women in BD's life respond in a way that brings him happiness
because he tries to embody this rule. He doesn't get involved in drama, he
executes a calm next. This is just one example. And this example leads into
another point he makes about having options. One of the main benefits of a
next is it gives you options. If frees you to make use of a limited resource
(time) in more constructive ways. One of which is meeting new women.
I've been in a relationship with a woman like the one you describe. You can
only get in a situation where she can make you angry like this because you
didn't next her early enough or decisively enough.

12-03-2013, 06:49 PM

Bigslick2
This is a bit of a non-sequitur --- but isn't anger justified in certain situations?
I'll give you a solid example --- I'm moving out of my apartment soon, but I
have neighbors who constantly wake me up at 2 am, 3am, 4am, or 5 am on
weeknights. Either blasting music with huge bass directly underneath me, or
having drunk friends pound outside my window deep into the AM. They
obviously don't have jobs.
Cops never show up and they can't be evicted, and I've talked to them
repeatedly, so I've turned to blind violent rage as a 'deterrent' strategy.
Isn't a man entitled to basic rest in his own home?
Anyway in these late night raptures, I'll quickly go from 0 to King Lear to
Unholy Rage just to get some sleep. It's part real anger and part me playing it
up to inspire fear.
Really, are you telling me a guy more secure in himself, his life, or his mission,
would not be as angered? Perhaps. But I wouldn't try to take away a man's
sleep. Hell, for me, sleep beats sex, when both urges are strong.

12-03-2013, 07:06 PM

Qlue
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigslick2


This is a bit of a non-sequitur --- but isn't anger justified in certain
situations?
I'll give you a solid example --- I'm moving out of my apartment soon, but
I have neighbors who constantly wake me up at 2 am, 3am, 4am, or 5 am
on weeknights. Either blasting music with huge bass directly underneath
me, or having drunk friends pound outside my window deep into the AM.
They obviously don't have jobs.
Cops never show up and they can't be evicted, and I've talked to them
repeatedly, so I've turned to blind violent rage as a 'deterrent' strategy.

Isn't a man entitled to basic rest in his own home?


Anyway in these late night raptures, I'll quickly go from 0 to King Lear to
Unholy Rage just to get some sleep. It's part real anger and part me
playing it up to inspire fear.
Really, are you telling me a guy more secure in himself, his life, or his
mission, would not be as angered? Perhaps. But I wouldn't try to take
away a man's sleep. Hell, for me, sleep beats sex, when both urges are
strong.

Well, in the heat of the moment I don't blame you. But if this is a consistent
problem and you're renting, you can complain to the landlord and if he does
nothing about it you can document it and probably terminate the lease on
those terms. This would be the logical response as opposed to the getting
angry over and over response.
If I was the owner, then I would complain to the Board and the property
managers and the Board could sue them. There have been cases where the
Board has sued owners/tenants for up to $50,000 and won.
So for one night, I would be discontent / angry, if this persisted I would take
reasonable action.

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


in the words of your analogy - that would entail knowing his bank balance
at the time of deposit, as well as seeing his bank history, understanding
the frequency of deposits and withdrawls. is the graph of his net worth
moving "up and to the right", and at what rate? to translate that back into
the terms of my analogy - on a given day two guys make identical
deposits into their accounts, resulting in identical balances. However,
bank records show one of the guys opened the account 2 years ago with
100K deposit from his dad. which man left to his own devices do you
think will have more money in the account 2 years down the road?

You're getting way too theoretical for me and I like to stay in the practical
world. This will be my final response to you in this thread unless you want to
steer the conversation back to the practical.
The bottom line is that if your game (inner and outer) is solid, a woman
doesn't need to see a huge historical resume of you in order to be attracted to
you, nor does a man need to see this to respect (or fear) you.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigslick2


This is a bit of a non-sequitur --- but isn't anger justified in certain
situations?

Certainly. If a man threatens you with a gun. If someone sexually molests one
of your children. If your girlfriend steals thousands of dollars from your savings
account.
There is nothing wrong with getting angry in extreme circumstances. The
problem is that 95% of the time people are angry the situation is not an
extreme one. A girl calling you an asshole or not texting you back is not cause
for any anger. (Unless you have a personality that enjoys drama.) Smile,
laugh, next fast, move on, and get back to a happy state again.
The other problem that is less common, though still prevalent, is that
people stay angry about extreme circumstances for years and years instead of
getting over it.
When I got divorced, her and I were both very angry. It took me 3-4 months to
get over it. It took her 5 years. I've dated women who have been divorced
longer than TEN years and they're still angry about it.
Quote:

I'll give you a solid example --- I'm moving out of my apartment soon, but
I have neighbors who constantly wake me up at 2 am, 3am, 4am, or 5 am
on weeknights. Either blasting music with huge bass directly underneath
me, or having drunk friends pound outside my window deep into the AM.
They obviously don't have jobs.

Cops never show up and they can't be evicted, and I've talked to them
repeatedly, so I've turned to blind violent rage as a 'deterrent' strategy.

Awesome now here's the question: Is that strategy working for you? Are
those people now being quiet all night because you're enraged?
I have a feeling the answer is no, which means you've proven my point. Your
anger has accomplished absolutely nothing in the real world, except damage
your happiness. Which to me is an unacceptable price.
Whenever you have a situation like this, the way to solve it is:
1. Do everything logistically possible to solve it as fast as possible. Come up
with creative solutions if possible.
2. If number 1 doesn't work, remove yourself from the situation as fast as
possible.
Those above two steps apply to any area in life having to do with other human
beings. Women, life, business, politics, family, you name it.
It sounds like you've already done 1 and it hasn't worked. Then it's time for 2.
Move out of there ASAP. (Which you mentioned you were doing.) A minor
frustration in the meantime, but then problem solved. No anger required.
If you're curious, most people follow a different technique:
1. Get really mad.
2. Make sure everyone knows you're mad, hoping they'll change because
you're mad.
3. Get even more mad because no one ever changes because you're mad.
4. Go back to step 1.
Quote:

Isn't a man entitled to basic rest in his own home?

That's a HUGE guy-logic statement. While you're not wrong per se (because I
agree with you), in this particular circumstance that attitude won't help your
happiness at all.

Anger has nothing to do with rights or honor or logic or laws or fairness. It has
to do with happiness.
When you're being wronged and angered, you can fix it and/or remove
yourself ASAP to get back to your happiness as fast as possible (my method)
or you can stand your ground because you're "right" and stay angry (and thus
stay away from your happiness) for a much longer period of time (emotional
guy method and Needy Alpha method).

12-03-2013, 08:00 PM

Uncle Walker
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigslick2


This is a bit of a non-sequitur --- but isn't anger justified in certain
situations?

So here is the question, Big slick, does your anger make you happy?
Remember this quote: You can tell the size of the man by the size of the
things that make him mad.
Is this a big enough thing to you to judge your manhood on? A couple years
ago I realized there were things that would consistently get under my skin if
they happened. One of them was a thousand pounds of out of control animal.
So hey by BDs definition I am a pretty big dude huh? :p
All to often I would go ride/work with one of my horses and before I was done I
would be furious. It became kind of a pattern. They were not really totally out
of control but they would be defiant and not do simple tasks that were
required of them. They would defy, I would start an internal dialog, they would
continue, I would get mad, we would battle our way to some resolution and we
would go home.
These animals were big and if they didnt stay under control I could quite
easily be dead. It was only after I drew the next conclusion that the lights
began coming on. It was all fear based and it was really more about the fear
of being out of control than the physical danger. Once the drama started it
would just feed the animals fear and then back to me in reciprocal

determinism. Finally I started looking at the progression and finding ways to


make meaningful changes.
Today, I still have occasional bad days but for the most part I have much
better rides and much better horses. Was I justified in being angry? It is really
a mote point because it didnt make me happy or fix anything in an efficient
way. Being angry at the guys playing loud music or the guy who pushes your
girl friend in the other example of this thread wont really make you happy
either, but it might justify going down a stupid rabbit hole. I hear it all the time
and especially from younger guys who think being pissed makes them tough
or cool. He has to get pissed to show his girl Boobadoos he can defend her.
I bet if you went back and looked at these situations you will find there are
much better and more efficient ways to handle the situations. Anger is about a
feeling of loss of control and its drama and. . . . . what else was in those 5
things in DBs post?

12-06-2013, 01:09 AM

Sensation
This thread covers a topic I was going to make a post on to ask a question.
So the last girl I was seeing was relatively drama free, so nothing next-worthy
there. But when it came to logistics, she would regularly fuck shit up and it
would piss me off.
Example: I spent an hour and a half traveling to meet her somewhere. She is
late for stupid reasons she could have avoided, and if she had at least kept
me in the loop and texted me then it wouldn't have totally ruined our plans.
So I got pissed and argued with her and called her inconsiderate. 30 seconds
of effort on her part would have saved me a lot of trouble. After it calmed
down we did some other shit and the rest of the night went okay. Problem is
that she would do this regularly, and wouldn't keep me in the loop to mitigate
potential problems because she wanted to avoid "making trouble" (her
parents would piss on her for every little thing, and she didn't want to go
through that with me, but in trying to prevent it she fucked up shit way worse
because she traded logistical fuckups for disrespect towards me).
So, I know I shouldn't have argued with her, but what should I have done?
Should I have told her that if she won't tell me what's going on, that that is
unacceptable and then just leave? Or would she see me as pouty for "ruining"
the night because she also traveled a long distance and was only afraid of
being the "bad" person and didn't intend to be inconsiderate?

12-06-2013, 01:22 AM

0---

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensation


This thread covers a topic I was going to make a post on to ask a
question.
So the last girl I was seeing was relatively drama free, so nothing nextworthy there. But when it came to logistics, she would regularly fuck shit
up and it would piss me off.
Example: I spent an hour and a half traveling to meet her somewhere.
She is late for stupid reasons she could have avoided, and if she had at
least kept me in the loop and texted me then it wouldn't have totally
ruined our plans. So I got pissed and argued with her and called her
inconsiderate. 30 seconds of effort on her part would have saved me a lot
of trouble. After it calmed down we did some other shit and the rest of
the night went okay. Problem is that she would do this regularly, and
wouldn't keep me in the loop to mitigate potential problems because she
wanted to avoid "making trouble" (her parents would piss on her for
every little thing, and she didn't want to go through that with me, but in
trying to prevent it she fucked up shit way worse because she traded
logistical fuckups for disrespect towards me).
So, I know I shouldn't have argued with her, but what should I have done?
Should I have told her that if tn't tell me what's going on, that that is
unacceptable and then just leave? Or would she see me as pouty for
"ruining" the night because she also traveled a long distance and was
only afraid of being the "bad" person and didn't intend to be
inconsiderate?

Permanent next after the second fuckup.

12-06-2013, 01:58 AM

Sensation
Quote:

Originally Posted by 0--Permanent next after the second fuckup.

Not saying you're wrong, but it seems kinda harsh to me. Not even downgrade
to FB? Having said that, most of the friction in the relationship came from this
kind of shit.
Now that I think of it, she was on a Marina IUD and got results from her gyno
that indicated possible pregnancy or cancer. She didn't talk to me for several
days because she thought I'd get "mad". Last I heard it was probably an
infection that caused the funny results.

12-06-2013, 02:59 AM

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensation


I spent an hour and a half traveling to meet her somewhere.

You drove 90 minutes to meet a woman who regularly fucks up logistics?


You need to realize that entire situation was 100% your fault. You were asking
for it, so you getting angry at her makes no sense. If you purposely put your
hand on the hot stove, it makes no sense to get mad at the stove.
Quote:

So, I know I shouldn't have argued with her, but what should I have done?
Should I have told her that if she won't tell me what's going on, that that
is unacceptable and then just leave? Or would she see me as pouty for
"ruining" the night because she also traveled a long distance and was
only afraid of being the "bad" person and didn't intend to be
inconsiderate?

You should not have driven 90 minutes to meet her in the first place.
But okay, you made that mistake. At about 45 minutes out I would have sent
her a text or called her to confirm that all was well. If I got no response, or a
response that indicated she was going to be very late, I would have turned
around and gone back home. Then soft nexted her for at least 2 weeks,
probably a month.
But okay, you didn't do that either. So you're there and standing around like
an idiot waiting for her and then she's really late. (Which is 100% your fault
for trusting such a disorganized woman.) What I would have done is said
something like "You've screwed up the entire evening by being late. So we can
hang out for about an hour and have sex, but I'm cutting short the rest of the
evening and going home after that."
If she agreed, I would have sex with her and then go home by myself, then
soft nexted her for at least 2 weeks and downgraded her to FB.
If instead she started complaining or bitching at me, I would say "Okay, see
ya", then got back in my car and gone back home, and soft nexted her for at
least an entire month and downgraded to FB. And then I would have hopefully
learned my lesson.
The point is, no anger required, and she clearly knows what she did wrong.

12-06-2013, 07:04 AM

hangman
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


I only became aware of it recently - how important it is to for me to "be
heard". its interesting, I dont think I remember reading about that
behavior previous to this post.

It seems to me that I (and probably others) have talked here about "wanting
to be understood" as a form of neediness. But as usual it was probably in the
"shooting the shit" format that I usually adhere to, instead of the "revealed
truth" format, which seems more accessible to the masses.
EDIT: Just found a link, where the context seems relevant-

http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post61844
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


Another reason why I am pulled to "being heard" seems to be a desire to
not have people pissed off at me unfairly. im not sure if its a moral or
ethical thing. I want to work things out, to "process". I feel I am right, and
I need the other person to hear my side of the story. I am open to hearing
what they have to say and how they see it. Lets work through it so we
could all get along and be friends, or at least not part ways on bad terms.
I guess it sounds like I havent internalized the idea that "you cant please
everyone".

This happens because you think that people make their decisions based on
reason, and that if you just told them the full facts, they will process it and
treat you "nice".
You have to become more process-oriented. Which means, you have to
understand that given enough time, if you are reasonable, people will get your
point of view. This is a bit abstract, and I don't have the time now to elaborate
it further, but you touched upon a very important point.
This is also the same reason why guys here will always ask you what is the
best line to handle this or that shit-test? The true answer oftentimes is that
you don't need any line (sure, a good line can be fun), you just need to stay
there and trust yourself. Like Albert E once said, "its not that I solved problems
because I was cleverer, but that I stayed with the problems longer".
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyChonga


yes, I too have a soft spot for simple, elegant solutions :) Im curious tho.
suppose one man has his life seemingly together, smiley, emotionally
stable, etc. but interacting with one certain family member drives him
nuts, literally in minutes there is uncontrolled rage. is that a big rock
(http://www.appleseeds.org/Big-Rocks_Covey.htm)? who does the
judging? another example - a guy who grew up in a religious
environment, super strict and very sexually conservative and works

himself to a place where he is OK with premarital sex, anal sex, even


considers non-monogamy, and no longer sold on traditional marriage.
compare that to a natural born in Miami or NYC who, on top of the above
characteristics, also has a few FBs in rotation. it may be argued that the
first guy would have more things "make him mad", but which man was
more courageous, which man traveled farther? point is - I am not sure
how the quote is a scalable tool from one person to the next. Im not even
sure how its a useful tool for me - I have my own experience to compare
with, and it may not be sufficient to appropriately judge another with.

You are forgetting that the path brings its own glory.
Trying to bang white bitches when I was in my 20's was the thing that taught
me so many remarkable things about myself, life, others, my work, etc etc
etc. There is a certain density (for lack of a better word) that comes to you as
a person.
I wouldn't switch it for the life of a club promoter in Miami, fun as it is. That
might not be obvious to some teenager who just wants to get his dick wet at
whatever cost, but when you have fucked your 89th or 114th girl, girls simply
are not the most important thing in your life.
This is the thing that guys like Libertine, who fret over "missed opportunities"
are not understanding.

12-06-2013, 09:26 AM

Nitrax
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensation


So the last girl I was seeing was relatively drama free, so nothing nextworthy there. But when it came to logistics, she would regularly fuck shit
up and it would piss me off.

Being pissed off is always always always your problem!


I used to have some habitually late friends. Since we were all german that was
quite uncommon. (If you are culturally late than you are just expected to know

about that. Otherwise appointments are there to keep.) What I found most
effective is to limit my own waste of time standing somewhere, so I would
either go to their place, or even better meet up at mine. That way I can use
the lag time to do something else.
These days its easiest to take a generic ebook reader with you at all times and
just read. But lateness is disrespectful and should not be encouraged.
Just get the girl to drive to your place from now on. And don't do her thinking
for her! Don't solve her problems, her logistics, or whatever else she comes up
with.
I noticed a general tendency for men to do all the traveling/driving. Theres
nothing wrong with getting the girl to your area. Saves on time. You also don't
have to be fair and meet up in the middle or sth.
Nitrax

12-06-2013, 12:53 PM

sparxx
Only reason ever to get mad is if getting mad 1) accomplishes some goal
which 2) cannot be accomplished otherwise.
Either of these are rarely true and even more rarely true at the same time.

12-06-2013, 07:50 PM

Sensation
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


You drove 90 minutes to meet a woman who regularly fucks up logistics?

Took transit, so it wasn't REALLY far, just the connections made it take a long
time.

Quote:

You should not have driven 90 minutes to meet her in the first place.

We were going out to do stuff. Usually we spent time at my place, but


sometimes I wanted to go out with her to do something different. At the end of
the night, after her roommate was supposed to leave, we were going to go to
her place for sex.
Quote:

But okay, you made that mistake. At about 45 minutes out I would have
sent her a text or called her to confirm that all was well. If I got no
response, or a response that indicated she was going to be very late, I
would have turned around and gone back home. Then soft nexted her for
at least 2 weeks, probably a month.

We met at a Meetup group. She didn't start coming to the weekly event until
after we were seeing each other. I told her I preferred that she didn't come,
but she came regularly anyways. This made nexting her difficult. How do you
soft next someone in your social group? Should I have told her that if she
came to the weekly event, that was her choice but I'd stop seeing her?
Quote:

But okay, you didn't do that either. So you're there and standing around
like an idiot waiting for her and then she's really late. (Which is 100%
your fault for trusting such a disorganized woman.) What I would have
done is said something like "You've screwed up the entire evening by
being late. So we can hang out for about an hour and have sex, but I'm
cutting short the rest of the evening and going home after that."
If she agreed, I would have sex with her and then go home by myself,
then soft nexted her for at least 2 weeks and downgraded her to FB.

This is the kind of answer I was looking for. So basically the night is not a
complete write off, nor are my efforts, but she is punished for her fuckup by
spending much less time with me. Now I sold my car, and sex at every
meeting is important, so how do I take care of business? In summer we did
hump in the park one night, but winter in Canada, even Vancouver, can get
cold.
Quote:

If instead she started complaining or bitching at me, I would say "Okay,


see ya", then got back in my car and gone back home, and soft nexted
her for at least an entire month and downgraded to FB. And then I would
have hopefully learned my lesson.

After having been with a borderline, this chick seemed like so much less
trouble (e.g. she never threatened to kill me hahaha), so I was willing to
tolerate her stupidities because she was relatively drama free and submissive.
But after being reminded how quickly you would next or downgrade a girl, it
tells me that I still have to raise my standards regarding behavior even
further, and that I should have kept her as FB in the first place. But Asian girls
with 28C's are like crack to me. Having said that I see how the fact that I
wasn't sleeping with anyone else at the same time makes it MUCH more likely
that I'd stupidly upgrade a girl or put up with disrespectful behavior. Looking
back on it, "get a second girlfriend" I think would have automatically
solved/prevented most of this bullshit. But it's hard to see it like that in the
moment when nexting means no sex for Sensation. I really liked spending
time with her even if she was lame sometimes, so I can only imagine what it
will be like with a "better" girl.

12-06-2013, 07:56 PM

Sensation
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrax


Just get the girl to drive to your place from now on. And don't do her
thinking for her! Don't solve her problems, her logistics, or whatever else

she comes up with.


I noticed a general tendency for men to do all the traveling/driving.
Theres nothing wrong with getting the girl to your area. Saves on time.
You also don't have to be fair and meet up in the middle or sth.
Nitrax

She generally came to my place, but this night was to go out and do stuff. A
"date" with a girl I had been seeing every weekend for several months.

12-08-2013, 02:48 AM

limitless
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdragon


3. Anger is often an indication of a lack of a strong life
Mission. We are men. Men, at least happy men, need Missions. When
you have a clearly defined, strongly compelling, deeply exciting Mission
in your life, it's usually harder to get mad at the small stuff.
If you don't have a Mission, spend some time and find one. I'll admit this
isn't always easy. But neither is getting mad all the time.
4. Anger simply a mutated version of fear. I fully agree with the
psychologists who assert that all negative emotions stem from fear. This
includes anger. If you're angry, you're not actually angry...you're afraid.
Whenever you get mad, pause, take a few deep breaths, and ask
yourself, "What am I afraid of?" You may be surprised to find that the
person or persons you're mad at have nothing to do with the real reasons
you feel angry.

Great post, matches exactly my way of thinking over the past year. I do have
some questions though:

How do you get past the emotions when what you are angry about is
your life's mission itself? Little things like women, maybe a financial
situation etc do not affect me. However, I know I am not in the career
situation I want currently and when this is brought up (usually by my parents)
I can't help getting angry over it. I know it stems from fear about not making
something of myself etc but when it is hinted at I can't help but feel angry,
even if I don't show it.
Some actionable advice about getting a bigger picture mindset and avoiding
anger when it comes to your life's mission itself would be very helpful.

12-08-2013, 03:28 AM

JWS
Quote:

Originally Posted by hey_lover


Women seem to equate anger with passion, fire, and desire. I've heard
several state that I was lifeless and lacked passion when I refused to
engage in a fiery confrontation.
12 Angry Men is a great film. The one starring Henry Fonda.

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet. 12 Angry Men is exactly the
WRONG kind of anger, it is AFC anger from men who feel basically powerless
in their lives.
There is righteous, controlled and purposeful anger and there is beta male
anger. I've used both in my life and there is a HUGE difference in the results
and in the way I felt right afterwards.
For example if your child is about to drink bleach or run in front of a car, if
someone you love is about to damage themselves, there is a certain natural
anger that you will feel and can channel in the appropriate manner.
If an employee does something like steal or publicly damage the business,
rarely it can be a good idea to call him out publicly, even in a display of
"anger". Not out of control rage but righteous and purposeful.
BD is talking about something very different. If you're getting angry with a
woman, good chance you're not in control of your emotions, you're being a

victim and a guy without options or a mission.


"I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one." - Jay-Z

12-08-2013, 03:42 AM

JWS
Quote:

Originally Posted by zylya


This is my biggest sticking point these days. It's the whole 'being right
isn't enough' thing. I don't want to control (the other primary objective in
your other post) which means I'm halfway there, but I HATE not being
heard or listened to. And it's not even the whole ignoring thing - I simply
ignore in return, it's when you say something but nothing changes. I
know it's obviously a weakness, and one that I should work to resolve,
but I just have no idea how to at this stage.

I'll be grateful if you'll keep us all posted about this because I have the same
struggle. For example just yesterday I was trying to find a way with my ex,
that I could see my daughter more. She went between ignoring me or blowing
it off like I should be grateful for not being able to see her. I found it
infuriating. I can't think of anything else that sets me off like that (she knows
this, obviously... She ENJOYS making me angry).

12-08-2013, 03:56 AM

JWS
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigslick2


This is a bit of a non-sequitur --- but isn't anger justified in certain
situations?

I'll give you a solid example --- I'm moving out of my apartment soon, but
I have neighbors who constantly wake me up at 2 am, 3am, 4am, or 5 am
on weeknights. Either blasting music with huge bass directly underneath
me, or having drunk friends pound outside my window deep into the AM.
They obviously don't have jobs.
Cops never show up and they can't be evicted, and I've talked to them
repeatedly, so I've turned to blind violent rage as a 'deterrent' strategy.
Isn't a man entitled to basic rest in his own home?
Anyway in these late night raptures, I'll quickly go from 0 to King Lear to
Unholy Rage just to get some sleep. It's part real anger and part me
playing it up to inspire fear.
Really, are you telling me a guy more secure in himself, his life, or his
mission, would not be as angered? Perhaps. But I wouldn't try to take
away a man's sleep. Hell, for me, sleep beats sex, when both urges are
strong.

You mentioned this as a strategy. I am 100% on board with any strategy that
will get you the result you want. If rage makes them quit and nothing else will,
then by all means.
If on the other hand you use rage and they continue or they ESCALATE, you've
now compounded the problem because you used the wrong tool for the job.
"Don't write a cheque with your mouth that your ass can't cash". LOL.
One time a drunk tenant came into my bar drunk with his rent pouch light, 5
days late and to top it off, acting like he was doing me a favour by paying me
partial rent. I told him I would take his meager belongings and put them on
the yellow line of the street out front. Did not fly into a rage, said it loud
enough to be understood and did not break eye contact.
He threatened me with legal action. I laughed and said if you could afford a
lawyer you would have paid rent. He then threatened a physical fight. I looked
him straight in the eye and did not flinch - I was ready to get into it with him if
he touched me. He completely backed down.
Now I'm not a big guy and those tactics are rare with me, but they were
appropriate in context and more importantly, it worked. He didn't transform
into a star tenant in fact he moved out at the end of that month. But I got
what I wanted out of my actions. Other times I was not so wise :)

12-08-2013, 06:42 AM

hangman
Quote:

Originally Posted by JWS


For example if your child is about to drink bleach or run in front of a car, if
someone you love is about to damage themselves, there is a certain
natural anger that you will feel and can channel in the appropriate
manner.

Thats not anger. Thats panic. Of course, because we are alpha badass
motherfuckers, we can't ever have panic. Anger sounds cooler. :rolleyes: I saw
some other guys on this thread saying similar things.
To paraphrase Solzhenitsyn, "the line between alpha and beta runs not
between men, but through every man's heart". All the grandstanding in the
world not withstanding.
The goal is to be more and more on the "alpha" side of things. But hiding
weakness is not the same thing as being strong, and I am pretty sure that
anger probably has some evolutionary value. It is an interesting question what
and it is not that hard to figure out what.
PS: This post is a reponse to some comments on this thread (which is a great
thread by the way), even though it is addressed at one comment by you, JWS!

12-08-2013, 12:24 PM

JWS
Are you drunk? I'm not talking about panic, I'm talking about righteous anger.
Panic could result in a death in those circumstances. My point went straight
over your head apparently.

12-08-2013, 07:50 PM

Blackdragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitless


How do you get past the emotions when what you are angry
about is your life's mission itself?

That's not anger. That's frustration. Frustration with your current conditions is
very, very healthy. It's an impetus to change.
The reason my income is what it is today is because when I was a young man
out on my own I was very poor, and grew up in a financially strapped family,
and I HATED IT. I was very frustrated. Same goes for the woman side of my
life.
But I wasn't angry about it. I wasn't walking around clenching my fists and
yelling at people. I was frustrated. There's a difference.
Quote:

Little things like women, maybe a financial situation etc do not affect me.
However, I know I am not in the career situation I want currently and
when this is brought up (usually by my parents) I can't help getting angry
over it. I know it stems from fear about not making something of myself
etc but when it is hinted at I can't help but feel angry, even if I don't show
it.

You need to next your parents for a while. I'm serous.


Quote:

Some actionable advice about getting a bigger picture mindset and


avoiding anger when it comes to your life's mission itself would be very
helpful.

That's a very big topic. My book is all about that. More on this later.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JWS


I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet. 12 Angry Men is exactly the
WRONG kind of anger, it is AFC anger from men who feel basically
powerless in their lives.

Agree.
Quote:

For example if your child is about to drink bleach or run in front of a car, if
someone you love is about to damage themselves, there is a certain
natural anger that you will feel and can channel in the appropriate
manner.

I'm more talking about your reaction after the fact. For example, if you find
out someone has stolen $2000 from you or beat the shit out of your best
friend and put him in the hospital. You're going to get angry, and that's okay.
It's a temporary (emphasis on temporary) biological reaction to an extreme
circumstance, which is what anger is for.
It's when the anger you feel is not temporary, or when the anger you feel is a
reaction to a non-extreme circumstance (like a girl flaking on you). THAT'S
when anger is stupid and unnecessary.
The problem is 95% of the anger I see out there in the world is the stupid and
unnecessary kind.

12-08-2013, 07:55 PM

Boobadoos
I feel very bloody angry right now I will be taking some of ur tips Blackdragon

12-09-2013, 01:24 AM

WarWithin
I'm an moody creative introvert. Logic is a tool I use to solve problems, often
very well, but it's not in my DNA.
If you're anything like me, you need to feel things fully for them to go away.
From what I gather BD is not very emotional. Basically, he is in a good mood
by default unless something very bad happens, which is a blessing. One of my
parents is the same way.
It comes down to what you do with it. Can a reframe or certain activity make it
go away? Great. If not you gotta let the poison go through without doing
something stupid. It's not your friend's, dog's or GF's fault. This is ideally done
away from people or girls, maybe a close friend is a different story if you need
to vent it out. I literally will get physical pain and other symptoms if I don't.
Bottom line, there is a certain mental composition you don't have control over.
I didn't. But I know myself well enough to take it for what it is- Like a smoke
alarm that often goes off at random times. It's not always a call to action.

12-09-2013, 01:31 AM

Present
This.

12-09-2013, 01:58 AM

money_matteo
Quote:

Originally Posted by WarWithin

I'm an moody creative introvert. Logic is a tool I use to solve problems,


often very well, but it's not in my DNA.
If you're anything like me, you need to feel things fully for them to go
away. From what I gather BD is not very emotional. Basically, he is in a
good mood by default unless something very bad happens, which is a
blessing. One of my parents is the same way.
It comes down to what you do with it. Can a reframe or certain activity
make it go away? Great. If not you gotta let the poison go through
without doing something stupid.

Yep, the faster you can sometimes feel through your emotions- the faster
they're up and out of your system.
The key is really doing it on your own time, ideally around people sympathetic
to you. If someone makes you angry past a threshold, soft-nexting someone
will give the both of you time to process your own emotions before trying to
communicate. It's a way to prevent collateral damage really.
If you -need- to experience your negative emotions in the company of other
people? That's on your turf to fix up.
Take it to the man-cave !!
Ladies are all really just sweet and somewhat crazy little kittens.... with tiny
sharp claws that could potentially send kitty poop infested with staph to your
blood-stream and kill you within the week.
For all the havoc they've been known to cause, it's hard to lay too much
blame really..

12-09-2013, 05:14 AM

Z
Quote:

Originally Posted by limitless


Some actionable advice about getting a bigger picture mindset and
avoiding anger when it comes to your life's mission itself would be very
helpful.

I think just about everyone has dealt with this at some point. It's pretty
common. It's a battle that I have waged myself many times, because I am in a
job that I am very good at, that I get paid very well for, but that I don't
particularly relate to or love what some of the other people in my industry do.
My peace has come from knowing that this is something I do in order to make
a living, that there are other aspects of my life that are more true to my
mission, and that despite the fact that I don't love everything about what I do,
I am going to do it to the best of my ability and be true to my own ideals while
doing it. Is it perfect? Hell no. I can't think of anything in life that is. Life is not
about living in perfection. It's about moving forward in the absence of it. I am
incredibly blessed in my life with a lot of things around me. My mission is
simple. To enjoy and appreciate the fact that I have those things, and to try to
create a world where more people are able to experience that enjoyment as
well.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JWS


I'll be grateful if you'll keep us all posted about this because I have the
same struggle. For example just yesterday I was trying to find a way with
my ex, that I could see my daughter more. She went between ignoring
me or blowing it off like I should be grateful for not being able to see her.
I found it infuriating. I can't think of anything else that sets me off like
that (she knows this, obviously... She ENJOYS making me angry).

This is another thing that I think everyone battles. For me, a big part of solving
this has been getting outside myself and learning to appreciate what the other
person is going through. Meditation helps a lot in terms of noticing internal
thought patterns. So it's almost like if I'm in a meeting and someone isn't
listening to me about how I think something should be done, I hear myself
going, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" I notice myself in that thought
pattern, accept it, and redirect towards, "Tell me more about what you are
thinking." Once they do that, you are present with them. And from there, it's
the simple task of redirecting towards the end goal. This is done with
something like, "Ok, I see what you're saying. We're trying to accomplish X.
Which one of these is going to be best?" The easiest way to be heard is to
hear someone else completely first. Be present with the situation in front of
you, not with your own wants and desires. Once again, this is something that I
have come up every day. But as you start to do it more and more often, you
feel a lot of the burden being lifted of having to be right and know everything
as you go through this process.

12-09-2013, 10:43 AM

ancestor
Are you genuinely stupid JWS?
Just wondering. Because you seem to ask these one-line questions to anyone
that opposes your view. You either have no possibility to see the other opinion
or rather, what I think it is, are grandstanding your forum persona. If you got
that pointless part of your imaginary alpha personality sorted, you would
actually learn from others. But I guess for you it is too late and it is more to
explain your current situation and to weave a story around whatever
happened to you rahter than to learn, adapt and grow.
You are of course very welcome to answer with - are you insane? - or some of
your rather limited repertoire of personal attacks that you fling as a first
reflex. Don't step back and think. Just react as usual JWS. Worked out so far,
right?
It is people like you that deter thinkers from this site.
ancestor

12-09-2013, 02:47 PM

JWS
Quote:

Originally Posted by Z
This is another thing that I think everyone battles. For me, a big part of
solving this has been getting outside myself and learning to appreciate
what the other person is going through. Meditation helps a lot in terms of
noticing internal thought patterns. So it's almost like if I'm in a meeting
and someone isn't listening to me about how I think something should be
done, I hear myself going, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" I notice
myself in that thought pattern, accept it, and redirect towards, "Tell me
more about what you are thinking." Once they do that, you are present
with them. And from there, it's the simple task of redirecting towards the
end goal. This is done with something like, "Ok, I see what you're saying.
We're trying to accomplish X. Which one of these is going to be best?"
The easiest way to be heard is to hear someone else completely first. Be
present with the situation in front of you, not with your own wants and

desires. Once again, this is something that I have come up every day. But
as you start to do it more and more often, you feel a lot of the burden
being lifted of having to be right and know everything as you go through
this process.

Great stuff. How do you deal with passive aggressive people, the ones who
push that guy-logic, "I want to be heard!" button?
Here's a recent example (paraphrased for brevity):
Me: let's talk schedules for the holidays. D1 was asking me if d2 can visit for a
couple of days over Christmas
R: ignore
Next day R sends me a picture with D2 sitting on Santa's lap
Me: that's nice. What days do you propose she comes up here, or should we
travel there?
Then R flies into a rant about how she has NO time off work over the holidays,
how she already had this huge tiring trip in early November (which I paid for),
how I should be GRATEFUL "you already have a daughter for Christmas!" And
more ranting.
She's blocked me on Facebook. A common female friend showed me that her
wall is mainly pics with her and my daughter, and some events from 2010 and
2011 "attended with Luke" (me). And she blocked me.
Her parents make me wait at the end of the driveway like a common criminal
when I go to pick up my daughter. The reason is once I found a massive,
overflowing ashtray at ground level where my daughter plays and asked them
nicely to pick it up and place it out of reach.
They feed her vaccines, tobacco (indirectly) and swear words, and treat 2/3 of
her immediate family as second class citizens for every major holiday. I have
no say in any of it. If I say anything I'm ignored or yelled at. She refuses to talk
to me unless my daughter is sitting right there. Everything else is text
messages.
For me, it's very hard not to be angry and stew in it. Meditation you say?
Based on my own principles as outlined above and which hangman
(inadvertently) misinterpreted, I agree with the OP in that anger should be
rational and temporary.
I equate "rational" to having a purpose, for example if I need to chastise my
child about the severe danger of wandering into the street (not grandstanding
- I think only someone never had to care for a small child would think that is
being "macho"), or set an example for an employee. Being in control of ones

emotions means I try to use them as tools FOR ME, instead of allowing them
to run me.
In this case I feel correct to be angry, on the other hand it does no apparent
good and there seems to be no resolution.

12-09-2013, 02:49 PM

zylya
Quote:

Originally Posted by ancestor


Are you genuinely stupid JWS?
Just wondering. Because you seem to ask these one-line questions to
anyone that opposes your view. You either have no possibility to see the
other opinion or rather, what I think it is, are grandstanding your forum
persona. If you got that pointless part of your imaginary alpha personality
sorted, you would actually learn from others. But I guess for you it is too
late and it is more to explain your current situation and to weave a story
around whatever happened to you rahter than to learn, adapt and grow.
You are of course very welcome to answer with - are you insane? - or
some of your rather limited repertoire of personal attacks that you fling
as a first reflex. Don't step back and think. Just react as usual JWS.
Worked out so far, right?
It is people like you that deter thinkers from this site.
ancestor

This is an ad hominem attack (and you even call for him to ad hominem back)
and therefore against the Posting Rules. You're welcome to discuss or argue,
but don't resort to personal attacks.

12-09-2013, 03:20 PM

JWS

[removed, inappropriate comment on my part]

12-09-2013, 04:16 PM

tryhard
Quote:

Originally Posted by JWS


Tryhard, It's not a personal attack.

It concerns me that you somehow know the contents of what I assumed was a
private report. I will be making a new thread to enquire about this. Aside from
that, I don't think you should be replying publicly to a private report.

12-09-2013, 05:20 PM

JWS
It was mis posted in the wrong thread and I'll move it as soon as I get to a
computer. I wonder why, though, you thought it was a good idea running
behind someone's back to get them into trouble when the issue is already in
front of the public.

12-09-2013, 05:43 PM

Z
JWS,
So here's kind of how my thought process works at this point.
Your first text is a completely reasonable request, which she ignored. It may
be because she was busy, it may be because she was trying to piss you off, it
may be because there was a rave going on in her house. You and I will never

know. My guess is that your mind took off in the direction of, "I hate this
woman, why is she always doing this to me?" Now I get that when this
happens, it seems like you should be angry at her. But the only thing you're
really angry at is your lack of control. So notice the anger, and return to the
moment where you actually can control things.
The next day, she sends you the picture, and then you send her a text that
jumps ahead to assuming she already said yes to you. Now remember how
pissed you felt when you didn't have control? Look what you just did to her.
You took control away from her by not giving her a chance to actually say yes
or no. So it's not overly surprising that she went off the way she did. And then
because she flips out, you once again feel like you have no control, which
angers you again.
Beyond that, you then have a three paragraph laundry list of things that her
and her family do that piss you off. Which is fine. I'm not saying you have to
be ok with those things. But you are dragging an awful lot of the past as well
as things that you can't control into the present. And that prevents you from
really being and doing what you want. Specifically, it prevents you from
dealing with the task at hand in the present.
Look,you can sit and stew in it all you want. Shit, I've spent more of my life
thinking about any worrying about shit than probably anyone here. But it
doesn't do any good. And almost all of that thinking is about trying to control
things that we can't. Yours is, mine is, and I bet every person who is here
spends time thinking about things they can't control. It simply doesn't do any
good. I have plenty of things in my life that I don't like. Probably not as
important as the health and future of your kids, but I could make a list that
would go on for quite a bit about things I don't like. But making that list
doesn't change any of them.
My advice is this. Be the man you want your daughter to be. I can't tell you
exactly what to say or what to do. But just remember that it doesn't matter
what anyone else does. At any moment, you can choose exactly how you want
to respond and the type of person you want to be. Just remember that. You
don't have to respond with anger. And trust me, the first time you feel yourself
getting angry and then realize that, it's like a huge weight has been lifted. You
don't have to bring the whole story along with you. You can be right there and
react however you want. And when you do that, when you break the story that
has been built, it's amazing how people react. Even if there is no change the
first time, you stick with your new approach. Because with every time that you
give them something that is different from the old story, it weakens that story
and strengthens the new one you are writing. And that is how you bring about
actual change.

12-09-2013, 05:52 PM

JWS
That's an absolutely wonderful response Z! Made my whole day. I'm going to
bookmark it and print it out. Thank you :)

12-09-2013, 09:38 PM

Blackdragon
Quote:

Originally Posted by WarWithin


If you're anything like me, you need to feel things fully for them to go
away. From what I gather BD is not very emotional. Basically, he is in a
good mood by default unless something very bad happens, which is a
blessing. One of my parents is the same way.

More or less correct. I'm happy all the time unless something very bad
happens. Some of this is because I had to work on this like any other muscle
(when I was much younger I was more angry), but a lot of it, perhaps most, is
just the way I was born. That's why I acknowledged in the OP that some guys
are going to have a rougher time with this than others, based on the
personality you were born with and/or your upbringing.
But I'll say it again...just like I can't use the shitty metabolism I was born with
as an excuse to be fat, more moody guys can't use their personality as an
excuse to be angry at women all the time. Address your weaknesses!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWS


Great stuff. How do you deal with passive aggressive people, the ones
who push that guy-logic, "I want to be heard!" button?

Z gave you some great advice; here's my take. (Just remember that you and I
have very different emotional needs and look at these circumstances very
differently, JWS.)
Quote:

Here's a recent example (paraphrased for brevity):


Me: let's talk schedules for the holidays. D1 was asking me if d2 can visit
for a couple of days over Christmas
R: ignore
Next day R sends me a picture with D2 sitting on Santa's lap
Me: that's nice. What days do you propose she comes up here, or should
we travel there?

So far so good.
Quote:

Then R flies into a rant about how she has NO time off work over the
holidays, how she already had this huge tiring trip in early November
(which I paid for), how I should be GRATEFUL "you already have a
daughter for Christmas!" And more ranting.

I have a very strong feeling you responded to her ranting, thus making the
ranting worse. What I would have done:
R: I have NO time off for the holidays I can't believe you would ask for
something his this! This is bullshit!
Me: Let's discuss this later when you're in a better mood.
<completely ignore all texts from her for at least 2 days, then try again>
Quote:

She's blocked me on Facebook. A common female friend showed me that


her wall is mainly pics with her and my daughter, and some events from
2010 and 2011 "attended with Luke" (me). And she blocked me.

She should not have been on your Facebook in the first place. She should
never be on your Facebook.
You think my ex-wife is on my fucking Facebook? Ha!
50% of the women I'm currently fucking are not on my Facebook.
My most consistent woman of many years (HBM) is not on my Facebook.
Why? Because these people gave me Facebook drama or other drama once
before. Do it once, and you'll do it again. One strike, you're out. If any woman
gives me any drama whatsoever (on Facebook or not) she is never allowed on
my Facebook, ever.
Otherwise you're just going to end up with all this stupid Facebook drama /
Facebook un-friending / blocking. Stupid. Why put yourself in the position to
be upset later.
Keep her off your Facebook forever. I'm sure your family will keep you apprised
of her FB activities with your daughter.
Quote:

Her parents make me wait at the end of the driveway like a common
criminal when I go to pick up my daughter. The reason is once I found a
massive, overflowing ashtray at ground level where my daughter plays
and asked them nicely to pick it up and place it out of reach.
They feed her vaccines, tobacco (indirectly) and swear words, and treat
2/3 of her immediate family as second class citizens for every major
holiday. I have no say in any of it. If I say anything I'm ignored or yelled
at. She refuses to talk to me unless my daughter is sitting right there.
Everything else is text messages.
For me, it's very hard not to be angry and stew in it.

I've said this before. Not specifically to you, but on these forums and
elsewhere. I'll say it yet again:
You need to ACCEPT that:
1. Your ex and your ex's family will always be raising your daughter in ways
you hate.
2. This will always be true until your daughter is 18-19 years old and there is
absolutely, 100% nothing whatsoever you can do about it.
While she's quite unhappy and has some very self-destructive views, the
mother of my daughter is a generally decent person. However she screams at
my daughter constantly, is extremely negative all the time, presents to her a
horrible role model as to what a happy, fulfilled woman should be, lets her eat
a horrible diet, badmouths other people in her presence, etc. All kinds of
things I completely disagree with.
I don't like it at all. But years ago I accepted that this is the way things were
going to be and there is absolutely nothing I could do about it. Once I came to
accept this, my anger and resentment vanished. I feel a little sad that my
daughter does not have an ideal female role model to look up to, but I'm not
angry or resentful at all, not the way you are. Because I have accepted things.
You have not.
That silly saying about "accepting the things you can't change..." really is
good and accurate advice.

12-09-2013, 10:20 PM

JWS
Awesome reminders, Z and BD. Thanks very much for this thread!

12-10-2013, 09:41 PM

ancestor
Quote:

Originally Posted by zylya

This is an ad hominem attack (and you even call for him to ad hominem
back) and therefore against the Posting Rules. You're welcome to discuss
or argue, but don't resort to personal attacks.

Yes indeed to point out his recurring behaviour. He just asked on the previous
page is someone was drunk. But that is ok I guess. I mean, it has to be, since
that is his MO.
are you x?
x being insane, drunk etc...
If you cant argue a point just shout something personal, get down and dirty
and divert. That is why I said, worked out so far.
There was a poster on t-nation (still active I think) that worked himself up to
40k posts, professorX is his name. He had the exact same MO and scared off
all the reasonable posters. Just saying.
When they finally invited him he was a fat guy that hissed himself through a
regular workout. Remarkably funny.
But I guess you decide on the direction you want to go here so, well have fun.
I have no intention on becoming a mod here.
ancestor

12-10-2013, 09:54 PM

zylya
Quote:

Originally Posted by ancestor


Yes indeed to point out his recurring behaviour. He just asked on the
previous page is someone was drunk. But that is ok I guess. I mean, it
has to be, since that is his MO.
are you x?
x being insane, drunk etc...
If you cant argue a point just shout something personal, get down and

dirty and divert. That is why I said, worked out so far.


There was a poster on t-nation (still active I think) that worked himself up
to 40k posts, professorX is his name. He had the exact same MO and
scared off all the reasonable posters. Just saying.
When they finally invited him he was a fat guy that hissed himself
through a regular workout. Remarkably funny.
But I guess you decide on the direction you want to go here so, well have
fun. I have no intention on becoming a mod here.
ancestor

JWS's post was reported as well and it was agreed that while drunk came close
to being ad hominem, the implication is simply that the post lacks logic. Drunk
is a temporary state, stupidity is permanent, which is the way we decided the
difference. Insane would also be ad hominem, but are you high wouldn't for
similar reasons.
If you have any other posts in mind that break the posting guidelines, from
JWS or anyone else, please report them by using the little triangle with a '!'
inside that is on every post, rather than taking matters into your own hands.
This alerts the moderators to a potential rule violation - there are too few of us
to read every single post, and so the system relies a little on the posters
themselves. If a post has been made that you believe is against the rules, let
us know and we'll take a look.
If you want to continue this discussion any further, please private message
me - I'm happy to talk about it with you, but don't want to derail this topic :)

12-10-2013, 09:59 PM

JWS
Also in my defence, the poster admitted to posting drunk before. So it was not
intended as an insult, just that I found his reply non sequitur and surprising.
When I'm drunk I'm also non sequitur and surprising :)

12-12-2013, 08:45 AM

Buddha-Vibe
Quote:

Originally Posted by Z
This is another thing that I think everyone battles. For me, a big part of
solving this has been getting outside myself and learning to appreciate
what the other person is going through. Meditation helps a lot in terms of
noticing internal thought patterns. So it's almost like if I'm in a meeting
and someone isn't listening to me about how I think something should be
done, I hear myself going, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" I notice
myself in that thought pattern, accept it, and redirect towards, "Tell me
more about what you are thinking." Once they do that, you are present
with them. And from there, it's the simple task of redirecting towards the
end goal. This is done with something like, "Ok, I see what you're saying.
We're trying to accomplish X. Which one of these is going to be
best?" The easiest way to be heard is to hear someone else
completely first. Be present with the situation in front of you, not
with your own wants and desires. Once again, this is something that I
have come up every day. But as you start to do it more and more often,
you feel a lot of the burden being lifted of having to be right and know
everything as you go through this process.

This entire post, but especially the highlighted sentences, speak volumes
about communication. Thanks for posting this.

12-15-2013, 07:56 AM

hangman
Quote:

Originally Posted by JWS


Also in my defence, the poster admitted to posting drunk before. So it
was not intended as an insult, just that I found his reply non sequitur and
surprising. When I'm drunk I'm also non sequitur and surprising :)

I was away for a few days because of some work stuff, but looks like a lot of
shit happened here during that period.

I never said that you were a bad poster or a bad person. Thats because I don't
think that. If I did, I would just avoid your posts. I said you were not a good
moderator. I meant that, but ONLY that. The basic reason for this is that (I
believe) you often turn individual debate points into into an attack on
character and personality. That is the easiest way to start a shit-storm. I hope
you will take that as feedback and not a personal attack.
Anyways, since it looks like you are not in a position to respond, I won't go on
further about this. Best wishes, man.