"Ada Menteri yang dulu memutuskan, sebuah buku dipakai untuk lima tahun, bukan h

anya setahun. Bukan begitu caranya Mas. Ada Menteri kok goblok."
"Naikkan dong pendapatan masyarakat. Pikiran kita harus begitu. Di Inggris saat
ini yang namanya bensin itu Rp 7.500 per liter premium. Tenang-tenang aja orang
bayar karena penghasilannya besar. Di Jepang Rp 9.000 per liter, tenang-tenang a
ja orang Jepang bayar karena penghasilannya cukup. Di kita Rp 3.500 udah ribut k
arena penghasilannya gak cukup. Naikkan pendapatan rakyat."
"Rakyat berhadapan dengan kekuatan aparat negara yang tidak bersih juga. Apa yan
g gak dikorupsi sekarang. Tambah lama tambah gede korupsinya itu. Jelas. Utangny
a tambah, korupsinya tambah, bukannya dihilangkan. Begitu kok ngaku demokrasi mu
lai berjalan di Indonesia. Ini omongan goblok. Kenapa? Karena demokrasi itu inti
nya adalah kedaulatan hukum. Selama di kita orang korupsi, orang melanggar hukum
dan sebagainya tidak diapa-apakan, maka selama itu pula tidak ada demokrasi."
Interview
It looks like people are saying you're finished. Your days are numbered, that th
e parliament does now against you, question about Megawati's support, et cetera.
What's your message, first about the parliament but also to the rest of the wor
ld about your future?
My message is don't be misled by what seems to be the what within inside. No, no
. I will never step down. I will be in the office. You see I'm a Muslim, but if
I'm not a Muslim then I can bet with you. I will be here until the end of my ter
m.
But how can you rule the country with a hostile parliament which is now since yo
u do like this it looks like you've lost all support in the parliament.
Well, hostile now. If you believe in political process, there is a political pro
cess now and there is taking place now that will make the parliament more unders
tands to their own jobs, of their own duties and task. Since they are used to So
eharto, to Habibie, and supposed now they have to change their mind and it takes
time.
Some parliamentary in subset they don't believe that you took any money, you did
anything very wrong, but worried about the style of management.
If they think so, why don't they talk to me? If it's style, it can be changed. I
'm not so gullible as not to listen to them.
What's your reaction to defect it clearly Megawati has allowed ... against you
like this in the parliament.
That's her device of letting this team out of the party. So now this team has be
en out and this is ok. But she said through messanger to me last night that she
will not entertaint any kind of special session of MPR.
So no impeachment.
No impeachment.
And you still believe the Vice President is fully behind you?
Oo yes, yes. She's always behind me. Just ask her
If violence which is starting does rap the country and if you lost the trust of

the people because of them, would you then resign?

No. That things will never happen. That's what you think so but I know that It w
ill never happen.
But you'll call the all people let on the street to show they're supporting you.
No, no to the street, no. Letters, statement on the press, many things can be do
ne without putting people into the street. You see, a few days ago, I prevented
thirty five thousands people coming to Jakarta to burn the DPR/MPR building. Cra
zy you know.
If this gets out of control, violence's wide and it can happend very easyly and
it's very dangerous right now.
I don't talk in if. I believe I can handle the matter.
Keep hearing about misterious dark forces in Indonesia et cetera, who do you thi
nk was behind this spite of christmas booming, what was their motivation.
Well let say the extreemist. I don't know names.
The information links or seems to lead back sections of the military, again.
Hmm, when you mean section is informal guys, yes. But section is a face of con .
. by the formally by the hirarchy, no.
What do you think is their motivation for such of terrible act?
They would like to mantain status quo. They would like their own persons, in the
goverment of course, because they are deprived from, you see, from let say offi
ces.
They think they are entitled to.
So, former ministers of the goverment?
Former ministers, former generals, former everything, but I can say to you that
several people you have in mind, so not be, you see, be accused without any, let
say, lawful evidencies. General Wiranto, and then, you see, general Hartono, an
d then general Prabowo. It's easy to accuse them because they did, you see, wron
g things in the past, but not in this. I know this, I know this exactly.
What's your greatest fear about the future if, for example, parliament did manag
e to remove you. What does that mean for Indonesia?
Well, I never entertain that. I know precisely that the parliament will fail. Tr
ying to make me step down from the presidency, is very dangerous for the democra
tization we have.