108 Q &A

Founder Acraya
Om Vishnupada Sri Srimad
Bhaktivedanta Narayana
Goswami Maharaja

From: Center for BHAKTI Studies

And Sri Ranganatha Gaudiya Matha

Question 8: Please explain the Origin of Jiva Soul.

Answer compiled by Bhaktivedanta Vishnu Daivata Maharaj.
For more info email Maharaj at vishnudaivata@gmail.com

Origin of Jiva Soul

Since time immemorial, man has inquired about the origin of the soul. In the thinking of many
neophyte devotees the soul falls down from eternal pastimes with Krishna due to mundane
envy. In this brief essay, Srila Sridhara Maharaja answers this most vital of all questions: "Who
am I? Where have I come from?

Note: An audio mp3 file of Srila Sridhar Maharaja speaking on the Jiva issue
is available Here: http://www.devavision.org/gosai/audio/ssm-jiva-origin.mp3

Commentary
by Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhar Goswami Maharaja
How does the soul first appear in this world? From what stage of spiritual existence does he fall
into the material world?" This is a broad question, which requires some background
information.
There are two classes of souls, jivas, who come into this world. One class comes from the
spiritual Vaikuntha planets by the necessity of nitya-lila, the eternal pastimes of Krsna. Another
comes by constitutional necessity.

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The brahmajyoti, the nondifferentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva souls,
atomic spiritual particles of nondifferentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental
body are known as the brahmajyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahmajyoti is the jiva. The jiva
soul is an atom in that effulgence, and the brahmajyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva
atoms.

Generally, souls emanate from the brahmajyoti which is living and growing. Within the
brahmajyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From
nondifferentiation, differentiation begins. From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness,
individual conscious units grow. And because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will.
So, from the marginal position they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of
dedication.
Krsna bhuli sei jiva anadi bahirmukha . Anadi means that which has no beginning. When we
enter the land of exploitation, we come within the factor of time, space, and thought. And when
we come to exploit, action and reaction begins in the negative land of loan. Although we strive
to become masters, really we become losers.
Goloka and Vaikuntha servitors are also seen to be within the jurisdiction of the brahmanda, the
material universe, but that is only a play, lila. They come from that higher plane only to take
part in the Lord's pastimes and then return. The fallen souls come from the marginal position
within the brahmajyoti and not from Vaikuntha.
The first position of a soul in the material world will be like that of Brahma the creator. Then his
karma may take him to the body of a beast like a tiger where he is surrounded with a tigerish
mentality, or to the body of a tree or creeper, where different impressions may surround him. In
this way, one is involved in action and reaction. The case is complex; to analyze the details of
the history of a particular atom is unnecessary. We are concerned with the general thing: how
the transformation of the material conception springs from pure consciousness.
Matter is not independent of spirit. In the brahmajyoti we are equipoised in the marginal
potency as an infinite number of pinpoints of spiritual rays, electrons of consciousness.
Consciousness means endowed with free will, for without free will no consciousness can be
conceived. An atomic pinpoint of consciousness has very meager free will, and by misuse of
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their free will some jivas have taken their chance in the material world. They refused to submit
to the supreme authority; they wanted to dominate. So, with this germinal idea of domination,
the jiva enters into the world of exploitation. In the Bhagavad-gita (7.27) it is stated:
iccha-dvesa samutthena
dvandva-mohena bharata
sarva-bhutani sammoham
sarge yanti parantapa

"Two principles in a crude form awaken in the jiva: hatred and desire. Then, gradually the soul
comes down to mingle with the mundane world."
At first, sympathy and apathy develop in a crude form, just as when a sprout springs up with
two leaves. And gradually these two things help us to dive deep into this mundane world. Upon
retiring from the world of exploitation, the soul may return to his former position in the
brahmajyoti as spirit. But, if the soul has gathered the tendency of dedication through his
previous devotional activities, he does not stop there; he pierces through the brahmajyoti and
goes towards Vaikuntha.
Why has the soul come to the world of exploitation" and not the world of dedication? That
should be attributed to his innate nature, which is endowed with free will. It is a free choice.
This is substantiated in the Bhagavad-gita (5. 14):

na kartrtvam na karmani
lokasya srjati prabhuh
na karma-phala-samyogam
svabhavas tu pravartate

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"The soul is responsible for his entrance into the land of exploitation."
The responsibility is with the soul, otherwise, the Lord would be responsible for his distressed
condition. But Krsna says that the soul's innate free will is responsible for his entanglement in
the material world. The soul is conscious, and consciousness means endowed with freedom.
Because the soul is atomic, his free will is imperfect and vulnerable. The result of that free
choice is that some are coming into the material world, and some are going to the spiritual
world. So, the responsibility is with the individual soul.
Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Cakravarti, asked our spiritual master, Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada, "Why has the Lord granted such freedom to
the jiva ?" Prabhupada told him, ""You are fighting for freedom. Don't you know the value of
freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter." Freedom offers us the alternative to do
right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ""We want freedom."' They replied,
"You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you." But finally,
he told them, "We want the freedom to do wrong." So, freedom does not guarantee only acting
in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.
Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite" our free will is
infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate"
and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination. As a result of this first action,
everything else has developed. So, in different ranks" the species have been divided" from the
demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we
find here has evolved in that way. The activating principle in any form of embryological
development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved."

The Final Proof: The Jiva Did Not Fall From Goloka
Murwillumbah, Australia; Feb. 16, 2002 (Evening - Part 2)
Tridandiswami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

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Come with me now to Godruma in Navadvipa Dhama, where Sannyasi Thakura asks a question
to his guru, Paramahamsa Babaji Maharaja. He told him, "For a long time I have heard of the
pre-eminence of dharma. On numerous occasions I have asked the question to many people,
'What is dharma?' And, it is a cause of distress to me that those peoples' answers contradict each
other. So please tell me, what is the true constitutional dharma of the jivas, and why do different
teachers explain the nature of dharma in such diverse ways? If dharma is one, why don't all
learned teachers cultivate that universal dharma which is one without a second?"

Paramahamsa Babaji Maharaja replied, "Religion is one, and that religion is love and affection
for the Supreme Lord. Only this love and affection is real Vaisnava-dharma, Sanatana-dharma,
or Bhagavad-dharma. This sometimes transforms, however, as water transforms into ice, or fog,
or steam. When it becomes ice, one can throw it at anyone and it will cause injury, but water
will not do so. Similarly, love for Krsna, the intrinsic mood of the jiva, has now been
transformed. Now we love each other, or we love dogs, cats, our own bodies, or boyfriends and
girlfriends, and this is called anitya-dharma. That love originally comes from Goloka Vrndavana.
That love is in the heart of jivas, but now it has been transformed, as water transforms into ice
when the temperature is low. Due to maya, our real dharma, prema for Krsna, has now been
transformed and changed, and now we are 'loving' each other. In this world, 'love' is perverted
and has become lust, but in its pure stage, it is love and affection for Krsna and it comes from
the hearts of the gopis and Vrajavasis.
Paramahamsa Babaji Maharaja quoted Caitanya-caritamrta:

jivera 'svarupa' haya - krsnera 'nitya-dasa'

krsnera 'tatastha'sakti' 'bhedabheda-prakasa'
suryamsa-kirana, yaiche agni-jvala-caya
svabhavika krsnera tina-prakara 'sakti' haya

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["It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is
the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from
the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy." (Cc
Madhya 20.108-109)]

krsna bhuli' sei jiva anadi-bahirmukha

ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duhkha
["Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time
immemorial. Therefore, the illusory energy (maya) gives him all kinds of misery in his material
existence." (Cc Madhya 20.117)]
We are eternally Krsna dasa, servants of Krsna, but now we are Krsna bhuli; we have forgotten
Him. The words 'krsna bhuli' are used here. It means 'the jiva forgets Krsna', but what does this
actually mean? It seems to mean that the jiva was once engaged in Krsna's service, but now he
has forgotten that service. Actually, this is not true. This is not the meaning. There is defect in
worldly languages. They are not perfect, and therefore they cannot purely express what is the
nature of our svarupa (constitutional form). To clarify the meaning of 'krsna bhuli', Srila
Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami writes in the next line, "krsnera 'tatastha'sakti' 'bhedabhedaprakasa.'"
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has clearly explained all these truths. You should very carefully note
this down in your heart and on your paper. He took his understanding from Srila Sanatana
Gosvami's Srimad-Bhagavatam and from Sri Jiva Gosvami's Sat-sandarpa, and then he wrote:
[Pundarika dasa reads from Jaiva Dharma, Chapter Sixteen:] "Innumerable jivas appear from Sri
Baladeva Prabhu to serve Vrndavana-vihari Sri Krsna as His eternal associates in Goloka
Vrndavana, and others appear from Sri Sankarsana to serve the Lord of Vaikuntha, Sri Narayana,
in the spiritual sky. Eternally relishing rasa, engaged in the service of their worshipable Lord,
they always remain fixed in their constitutional position. They always strive to please Bhagavan,
and are always favorable to Him. By virtue of the spiritual sakti, they have the strength to stay
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fixed in their devotion, and they have no connection with the material energy. In fact, they are
unaware that there is a deluding energy called maya. Since they reside in the spiritual world,
maya stays far from them and does not affect them at all. Always absorbed in the bliss of serving
their worshipable Lord, they are eternally liberated and are free from material happiness and
distress. Their life is love alone, and they are not even conscious of misery, death or fear."

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] They are all liberated. They don't know what is maya and what is
this material world. Who knows? We know. We have come from tatastha-sakti, from a
manifestation of Baladeva Prabhu called Karanabdisayi Visnu, who is situated on the marginal
line, in the Karanabdhi (Causal Ocean). The jivas are not coming to this world from Goloka
Vrndavana, nor are they coming from Vaikuntha. They are coming form the marginal line, from
the glance of Karanabdhisayi Visnu. Among them, those who look towards Vaikuntha are
liberated, and they go there at once without delay. Conversely, those who look toward this
world will come here.
Jivas are independent because Krsna has made them so. This independence is like a special
jewel, and the jivas can use it properly or misuse it. If they using it well, they will quickly go
towards Vaikuntha, and if they misuse it they will have to suffer.
Here is an example. If you have a sharp sword or knife and you drop some very small and round
mustard seeds on it so that they falls in the middle of the sword, some will fall over to one side
and some will fall to the other. The jiva has got some independence to go here or there. This is
not the fault of Krsna, but rather it is their independence to look here and there. If they look
towards Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana, Yogamaya will at once help them and they will go
there. On the other hand, those who look towards the material world will be attracted by
Mahamaya. Krsna is not at fault here.
You cannot understand this in your present stage, but when you come in our stage, then you
will realize something. At present you should chant, follow your guru, and follow all these
teachings. Don't conclude that the jivas have come from Goloka. Although Srila Swami
Maharaja never said that the jivas fell from Goloka, some of his disciples try to prove that he has
said the opposite. But I know the truth. He has told me, and it is also in sastra. Srimati

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Syamarani dasi has collected so many of Srila Swami Maharaja words, confirming that he never
accepted that the jivas came from Goloka Vrndavana.
na tad bhasayate suryo
na sasanko na pavakah
yad gatva na nivartante
tad dhama paramam mama

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity.
Those who reach it never return to this material world." (Bg 15.6)
Goloka is such a dhama that there is no maya. Rather, only Yogamaya is there. A person who is
seriously chanting, remembering and following, passes through the stages of sraddha, nistha,
ruci, asakti, and prema, after a long, long, long time. If he has gone to Goloka Vrndavana
Dhama and is serving Krsna, there is no chance at all to fall down. There is no example at all in
the Vedas, Upanisads, or any other scriptures.
Srila Gour-Govinda Swami used to say very boldly that those who wear big kanti-mala and
chant, "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna," at the same time being duplicitous, hypocritical and critical,
are kali-cela, disciples of Kali. They are not Vaisnavas because they have none of the symptom of
a Vaisnava. Such persons think that they can vote to determine siddhanta or to determine who is
acarya or guru. This is totally against Vaisnava law. Experts are experts. Guru is guru.
Who made Srila Swami Maharaja guru? Has Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura made him
acarya? Has he given him a certificate saying, "After me you will be acarya, and you will do such
and such"? It's ones own service that makes one acarya or guru. There was no duplicity in him,
and he was very kind and merciful to all. He realized this fact and he served like that. Similarly,
Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has not made our Guru Maharaja an acarya. He
did not tell him, "After me, you shall be acarya," but still he has become a very famous acarya strong like a lion. Those who serve their Gurudeva properly will become acarya. Who made Sri
Sukadeva Gosvami acarya? Who made Sri Jiva Gosvami acarya? Who made Srila Gour-Govinda

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Maharaja acarya? Who made Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura acarya? Has
Srila Gaura Kisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja told him, "After me you should be acarya"? Those who
serve their gurus properly, following the footprints of our guru-parampara and especially of
Gaura-Nityananda Prabhu, will automatically be recognized throughout the world as acarya.
It would be quite absurd to think that liberated souls in Goloka Vrndavana can ever be covered
by maya. You should have strong faith that the jivas did not fall from there. They have come
from the marginal point. They have come from Karanabdhisayi Visnu and from tatastha-sakti.
Jiva himself is tatastha-sakti.

[Srimati Syamarani dasi:] Throughout Srila Prabhupada's books he confirms Srila Gurudeva's
statements that the jiva never fell from Goloka Vrndavana. In the First Canto SrimadBhagavatam, first chapter, first verse, last line, it's stated:
dhamna svena sada nirasta-kuhakam satyam param dhimahi
Srila Vyasadeva says, "I meditate on that Absolute Truth, Sri Krsna, who eternally resides in His
own abode which forever free from the illusory representations of this material world. This
means that at no time is there any amount of maya in Krsna's abode. In the Third Canto SrimadBhagavatam, in the history of Jaya and Vijaya, Pariksit Maharaja asks Sukadeva Gosvami, "How
is it possible that Jaya and Vijaya could have fallen down from that realm? I don't believe it."
Any pure devotee will not believe it. Srila Prabhupada writes in the purport of the Seventh
Canto, Chapter 1 (Text 35), "Therefore it is to be understood that when Jaya and Vijaya
descended to this material world, they came because there was something to be done for the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha." Jaya
and Vijaya had a desire to please the Lord. All the associates of the Lord have only one desire: to
give Him pleasure.
Lord Narayana has a desire to enjoy vira-rasa, the mood or humor of chivalry. But who will He
fight with in Vaikuntha? Everyone there worships Him in awe and reverence. Jaya and Vijaya
were desiring, "We should do something to fulfill this desire." Then, knowing that they had that
desire to please Him, Lord Narayana called on Yogamaya to arrange for the four Kumaras to
come and for the gatekeepers Jaya and Vijaya to be cursed to come to the material world as
demons. Actually, they never came here and became demons. Only a part of them manifested in
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this world in order to give the Lord pleasure. Bhagavan came in the form of Lord Nrsimhadeva
and Lord Varaha to fight with their manifestations, and the complete and original Jaya and
Vijaya remained in Vaikuntha as gatekeepers.
In Prabhupada's translation of Caitanya-caritamrta, Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed Sanatana
Gosvami that there are two kinds of living entities. Those who are eternal associates of the Lord
have never seen the material world, and those who are conditioned jivas, who have come to this
material world, have never yet seen that world. Mahaprabhu made a distinction between the
two. He said that apart from one, there is the other.

'nitya-mukta' - nitya krsna-carane unmukha

'krsna-parisada' nama, bhunje seva-sukha

"Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render
transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal
associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna."
(Cc Madhya 22.11)

'nitya-bandha' - krsna haite nitya-bahirmukha

'nitya-samsara', bhunje narakadi duhkha

"Apart from the ever-liberated devotees, there are the conditioned souls, who always turn away
from the service of the Lord. They are perpetually conditioned in this material world and are
subjected to the material tribulations brought about by different bodily forms in hellish
conditions." (Cc Madhya 22.12)

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Caitanya Mahaprabhu also explained to Sri Sanatana Gosvami that beyond the Viraja river,
which is the dividing point between the material and spiritual worlds, there is no maya, what to
speak of in the Vaikuntha planets or in the highest planet, Goloka Vrndavana.

karanabdhi-pare mayara nitya avasthiti

virajara pare paravyome nahi gati

"The Viraja, or Causal Ocean, is the border between the spiritual and the material world. The
material energy is situated on one shore of that ocean, and it cannot enter onto the other shore,
which is the spiritual sky." (Cc Madhya 20.269)
It's not that this is a new teaching or something that is hidden deep in Caitanya-caritamrta. I
joined Prabhupada in New York in October, 1966, and two months later I heard him speak this
same thing in his morning class. [Dec. 17, 1966: Karanabdhi-pare. Just on the other side of the
Causal Ocean, this material energy is situated. Virajara pare paravyome nahi gati. And this
material energy has no entrance in the spiritual kingdom.
Now, the description of the spiritual world is that there is no rajas-tamah. These modes of
passion and modes of ignorance is not there. Suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means simply
goodness, pure goodness, without any tinge of passion and ignorance. So pravartate yatra rajas
tamas tayoh sattvam ca misram na ca kala-vikramah. There is no mixed goodness; simply
goodness. And na ca kala-vikramah: And there is no influence of time. This is the description of
the spiritual world: There is no modes of passion, and there is no modes of ignorance, and there
is no influence of time." That means there is simply pure goodness. And in pure goodness we
can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation,
everything.]
Srila Gurudeva often quotes a verse from Bhagavad-gita, as does Prabhupada. In his translation
and commentary of Bhagavad-gita, Prabhupada writes that when one experiences a higher taste,
he leaves the lower taste.

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visaya vinivartante
niraharasya dehinah
rasa-varjam raso 'py asya
param drstva nivartate

["The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects
remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in
consciousness." (Bg 2.59)]
One gives up lower engagements when he experiences a higher taste. Even in the stage of ruci,
taste, one has no desire for material pleasures. In asakti, in bhava, what to speak of prema, and
what to speak of the devotees who are enraptured, enjoying the pleasures of Goloka Vrndavana;
there is no desire for such mundane pleasures. Krsna says in the Gita that one who takes shelter
of His spiritual energy is free from maya. That spiritual energy is Yogamaya, and Yogamaya is an
expansion of Srimati Radhika. For one who serves Radha and Krsna, there is no question of
every having the desire to come to this material world.
Someone wrote Prabhupada a letter and asked, "Did we ever see Krsna?" Prabhupada replied,
"Yes, we saw Krsna, just as the child was with the father before coming out of the mother's
womb."
["Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with
the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the
conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being
conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the
womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father." (Letter to
Jagadisa, Los Angeles, 25 April, 1970)]
In other words, he was saying that we never saw Krsna. We were with Krsna because we came
from Krsna - from His tatastha-sakti. That person who came out of his mother's womb never
actually associated with the father previously. Later on he meets his father.

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[Gokula dasa:] Actually, within ISKCON there was two or three.

[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] I know. I have read them. Srila Swami Maharaja sometimes gave
baby food to babies. When I give a baby medicine like quinine, I tell him, "Baby, baby, it is very
sweet." I'm telling him something that is not true so that I can give him the medicine. Similarly,
Srila Swami Maharaja has written to someone who was very low in bhakti. A letter cannot
always be proof. What Srila Swami Maharaja has written in Caitanya-caritamrta and in his Gita
and Bhagavata explanation is authentic. These are proofs. He can write something else for a little
baby, but it is not proof.

[Gokula dasa:] Srila Gour-Govinda Maharaja said that he was doing it to encourage them.
Otherwise.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] Yes, certainly. Someone may say that Citraketu Maharaja fell down,
and this is proof that the jiva fell from Goloka. Actually, however, he has never fallen down. He
is a liberated soul. He came to see his friend, Sankara Mahadeva, when Sankara was sitting
naked with the very beautiful Uma Parvati on His lap. Citraketu began joking with him, because
a friend can joke with another friend when both on the same level. Citraketu Maharaja was not
less than Sankara. He was Sankara's god-brother, and fully liberated. He told him, "What are you
doing? You're quite naked, and at the same time you're taking this beautiful young lady on your
lap. What will everyone think?" He was laughing, and Sankara was also smiling, but Parvati
could not tolerate his joking statements. She at once cursed him, saying, "You should become a
demon."
Sankara became upset and told Parvati, "You have done wrong. He is a liberated soul. Whether
he is in this world, or here or there, he will be a devotee. He cannot be transformed at all. He has
the power to resist your curse, but see how humble he is; because he is a Vaisnava. He is beyond
hankering and lamentation, and therefore he tolerated your words and accepted your curse. If
he wished, he could have also cursed you; but he did not do so."
Citraketu Maharaja willingly came to establish this truth - that whether a devotee is in this
world or in hell, he will glorify his Prabhu and give instructions to all to serve Krsna. It was for
this reason that, for a very short time, he became the demon Vrtrasura. When he was in the
body of that demon, his enemy, Indra, was in great wonder, thinking, "How can I kill him? He's
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telling me, 'Kill me. I cannot serve my Prabhu in this body. So kill me,' but I cannot." Even
Indra's thunderbolt failed.
Vrtrasura prayed:

ajata-paksa iva mataram khagah

stanyam yatha vatsatarah ksudh-artah
priyam priyeva vyusitam visanna
mano 'ravindaksa didrksate tvam
["O lotus-eyed Lord, as baby birds that have not yet developed their wings always look for their
mother to return and feed them, as small calves tied with ropes await anxiously the time of
milking, when they will be allowed to drink the milk of their mothers, or as a morose wife
whose husband is away from home always longs for him to return so that she can satisfy him in
all respects, I always yearn for the opportunity to render direct service unto You." (SB 6.11.26)]
This is a highly elevated verse. Here, Vrtrasura's mood to serve Krsna is like that of the gopis. By
this prayer, Srila Vyasadeva and Sukadeva Gosvami have glorified the love and affection of
gopis. So Citraketu Maharaja did not fall from Goloka Vrndavana. He came only to establish
these truths.
When Jaya and Vijaya became demons for three births, they were still Jaya and Vijaya. They
remained there in Vaikuntha and their manifestations came here to act like demons. Jaya and
Vijaya can have so many forms, just as Yasoda has unlimited forms, and just as Krsna has so
many forms in Vaikuntha, in Dvaraka, and here and there. There are lakhs of universes, in each
universe there is one Vrndavana, and Krsna is there in Vrndavana. We cannot imagine this.
Brahma has said that a person may be able to count the stars in the sky and the sands on the
earth, but he will not be able to glorify the sweet pastimes of Krsna.
It is absurd to think that any jiva can fall from Goloka Vrndavana. Any liberated soul can come
with Krsna to assist in His pastimes, as Sridama and Subala do. Krsna sends them here only to
help the rebellious souls.
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Try to remember Krsna and follow this doctrine: God is one, there is one religion, and that
religion is love and affection for the Supreme Lord Krsna.
Gaura Premanande!
[Devotee:] You said that Krsna's associates go with Him to the innumerable universes and they
have so many expansions. Does that also apply to the sadhana-siddha jiva? In other words, if we
ever become perfect, do we also go to all those places, all those universes, at the same time,
along with Krsna?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] If you will be perfect like them, then you can go. A perfect devotee,
one who always remembers the asta-kaliya-lila of Radha and Krsna, will go to Goloka
Vrndavana. Those who always worship Gaura-Nityananda Prabhu, always remembering Their
pastimes, will go to Svetadvipa. Those who remember both Gauranga and Radha-Krsna and
want to serve both, have two svarupas, and they go to both places. There are so many universes,
and there is Svetadvipa and Vrndavana. Such perfect and liberated souls will be in all these
places.
[Radhanatha dasa:] Citraketu Maharaja was initiated with a sankarsana-mantra. How would he
be able to have a mood like the gopis?
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] If by taking mantra from my Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava
Maharaja, I can have this, then why, by taking the mantra from Baladeva Prabhu, would one not
be like the gopis?
[Sripad Madhava Maharaja:] Baladeva Prabhu is the undivided guru-tattva.
[Srila Narayana Maharaja:] It may be that he did not have that at first, but later on he may have
attained it. Narada Muni gave him the mantra. Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana, and Sanat-Kumara
were originally jnani-bhaktas, but later they began chanting and remembering asta-kaliya-lila
and now they are gurus of asta-kaliya-lila. How can you say they are still jnani-bhaktas? It may
be that they are real Vrajabasis. Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana, and Sanat-Kumara have so many
forms, as do Subala and Sridama, and they also have forms like the gopis. Otherwise, how would
they be able to teach the truths about the gopis to Narada Gosvami? Sanaka, Sanandana,
Sanatana, and Sanat-kumara have explained their asta-kaliya-lila to Narada. They are the gurus

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of Narada. If they don't know about that lila and they are not practicing that meditation and
service, how can they explain it to Narada? Don't have any doubt in this.
Jiva cannot falldown from Vaikuntha
TEXT 29

bhagavan anugav aha

yatam ma bhaistam astu sam
brahma-tejah samartho pi
hantum necche matam tu me

SYNONYMS
bhagavanthe Supreme Personality of Godhead; anugauto His two attendants; ahasaid;
yatamdepart from this place; malet there not be; bhaistamfear; astulet there be; sam
happiness; brahmaof a brahmana; tejahthe curse; samarthahbeing able; apieven;
hantumto nullify; na icchedo not desire; matamapproved; tuon the contrary; meby
Me.
TRANSLATION
The Lord then said to His attendants, Jaya and Vijaya: Depart this place, but fear not. All glories
unto you. Though I am capable of nullifying the brahmanas curse, I would not do so. On the
contrary, it has My approval.
PURPORT
As explained in connection with text 26, all the incidents that took place had the approval of the
Lord. Ordinarily, there is no possibility that the four sages could be so angry with the
doorkeepers, nor could the Supreme Lord neglect His two doorkeepers, nor can one come back
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from Vaikuntha after once taking birth there. All these incidents, therefore, were designed by
the Lord Himself for the sake of His pastimes in the material world. Thus He plainly says that it
was done with His approval. Otherwise, it would have been impossible for inhabitants of
Vaikuntha to come back to this material world simply because of a brahminical curse. The Lord
especially blesses the so-called culprits: All glories unto you. A devotee, once accepted by the
Lord, can never fall down. That is the conclusion of this incident.

(Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.29)

One who reaches it never returns to this material world.

na tad bhasayate suryo

na sasanko na pavakah
yad gatva na nivartante
tad dhama paramam mama

SYNONYMS
nanot; tatthat; bhasayateilluminates; suryahsun; nanor; sasankahthe moon; na
nor; pavakahfire, electricity; yatwhere; gatvagoing; nanever; nivartantecomes back;
tat dhamathat abode; paramamsupreme; mamaMy.
TRANSLATION

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That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it
never returns to this material world.
PURPORT
The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna-which is known
as Krishnaloka, Goloka Vrndavana-is described here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of
sunshine, moonshine, fire or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We have only
one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, but all the planets in the spiritual
sky are self-luminous. The shining effulgence of all those planets (called Vaikunthas) constitutes
the shining sky known as the brahmajyoti. Actually, the effulgence is emanating from the planet
of Krishna, Goloka Vrndavana. Part of that shining effulgence is covered by the mahat-tattva,
the material world. Other than this, the major portion of that shining sky is full of spiritual
planets, which are called Vaikunthas, chief of which is Goloka Vrndavana.
As long as a living entity is in this dark material world, he is in conditional life, but as soon as he
reaches the spiritual sky, by cutting through the false, perverted tree of this material world, he
becomes liberated. Then there is no chance of his coming back here. In his conditional life, the
living entity considers himself to be the lord of this material world, but in his liberated state he
enters into the spiritual kingdom and becomes the associate of the Supreme Lord. There he
enjoys eternal bliss, eternal life, and full knowledge.
One should be captivated by this information. He should desire to transfer himself to that
eternal world and extricate himself from this false reflection of reality. For one who is too much
attached to this material world, it is very difficult to cut that attachment, but if he takes to
Krishna consciousness, there is a chance of gradually becoming detached. One has to associate
himself with devotees, those who are in Krishna consciousness. One should search out a society
dedicated to Krishna consciousness and learn how to discharge devotional service. In this way
he can cut off his attachment to the material world. One cannot become detached from the
attraction of the material world simply by dressing himself in saffron cloth. He must become
attached to the devotional service of the Lord. Therefore one should take it very seriously that
devotional service as described in the Twelfth Chapter is the only way to get out of this false
representation of the real tree. In Chapter Fourteen the contamination of all kinds of processes
by material nature is described. Only devotional service is described as purely transcendental.

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The words paramam mama are very important here. Actually every nook and corner is the
property of the Supreme Lord, but the spiritual world is paramam, full of six opulences. In the
Upanisads it is also confirmed that in the spiritual world there is no need of sunshine or
moonshine, for the whole spiritual sky is illuminated by the internal potency of the Supreme
Lord. That supreme abode can be achieved only by surrender and by no other means.
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is 15.6)
The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the
eternal abode.
TEXT 26
sri-bhagavan uvaca
etau suretara-gatim pratipadya sadyah
samrambha-sambhrta-samadhy-anubaddha-yogau
bhuyah sakasam upayasyata asu yo vah
sapo mayaiva nimitas tad aveta viprah
SYNONYMS
sri-bhagavan uvacathe Supreme Personality of Godhead replied; etauthese two
doorkeepers; sura-itarademoniac; gatimthe womb; pratipadyaobtaining; sadyah
quickly; samrambhaby anger; sambhrtaintensified; samadhiconcentration of mind;
anubaddhafirmly; yogauunited with Me; bhuyahagain; sakasamto My presence;
upayasyatahshall return; asushortly; yahwhich; vahof you; sapahcurse; mayaby
Me; evaalone; nimitahordained; tatthat; avetaknow; viprahO brahmanas.
TRANSLATION
The Lord replied: O brahmanas, know that the punishment you inflicted on them was originally
ordained by Me, and therefore they will fall to a birth in a demoniac family. But they will be

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firmly united with Me in thought through mental concentration intensified by anger, and they
will return to My presence shortly.
PURPORT
The Lord stated that the punishment inflicted by the sages upon the doorkeepers Jaya and
Vijaya was conceived by the Lord Himself. Without the Lords sanction, nothing can happen. It
is to be understood that there was a plan in the cursing of the Lords devotees in Vaikuntha, and
His plan is explained by many stalwart authorities. The Lord sometimes desires to fight. The
fighting spirit also exists in the Supreme Lord, otherwise how could fighting be manifested at
all? Because the Lord is the source of everything, anger and fighting are also inherent in His
personality. When He desires to fight with someone, He has to find an enemy, but in the
Vaikuntha world there is no enemy because everyone is engaged fully in His service. Therefore
He sometimes comes to the material world as an incarnation in order to manifest His fighting
spirit.

In Bhagavad-gita (4.8) also it is said that the Lord appears just to give protection to the devotees
and to annihilate the nondevotees. The nondevotees are found in the material world, not in the
spiritual world; therefore, when the Lord wants to fight, He has to come to this world. But who
will fight with the Supreme Lord? No one is able to fight with Him! Therefore, because the
Lords pastimes in the material world are always performed with His associates, not with others,
He has to find some devotee who will play the part of an enemy. In Bhagavad-gita the Lord says
to Arjuna, My dear Arjuna, both you and I have appeared many, many times in this material
world, but you have forgotten, whereas I remember. Thus Jaya and Vijaya were selected by the
Lord to fight with Him in the material world, and that was the reason the sages came to see Him
and accidentally the doorkeepers were cursed. It was the Lords desire to send them to the
material world, not perpetually, but for some time. Therefore, just as on a theatrical stage
someone takes the part of enemy to the proprietor of the stage, although the play is for a short
time and there is no permanent enmity between the servant and the proprietor, so the sura janas
(devotees) were cursed by the sages to go to the asura jana, or atheistic families. That a devotee
should come into an atheistic family is surprising, but it is simply a show. After finishing their
mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That
is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or
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Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. But sometimes, as the Lord desires, devotees come
into this material world as preachers or as atheists. In each case we must understand that there
is a plan of the Lord. Lord Buddha, for example, was an incarnation, yet he preached atheism:
There is no God. But actually there was a plan behind this, as explained in the Bhagavatam.
(Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26)
Unless one is elevated to the Vaikuntha planets, directly in touch with the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, he is prone to fall down.

TEXT 29

yo yogo bhagavad-bano
nirvanatmams tvayoditah
kidrsah kati cangani
yatas tattvavabodhanam
SYNONYMS
yahwhich; yogahmystic yoga process; bhagavat-banahaiming at the Supreme Personality
of Godhead; nirvana-atmanO embodiment of nirvana; tvayaby You; uditahexplained;
kidrsahof what nature; katihow many; caand; anganibranches; yatahby which; tattva
of the truth; avabodhanamunderstanding.
TRANSLATION
The mystic yoga system, as You have explained, aims at the Supreme Personality of Godhead
and is meant for completely ending material existence. Please let me know the nature of that
yoga system. How many ways are there by which one can understand in truth that sublime
yoga?
PURPORT
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There are different kinds of mystic yoga systems aiming for different phases of the Absolute
Truth. The jnana-yoga system aims at the impersonal Brahman effulgence, and the hatha-yoga
system aims at the localized personal aspect, the Paramatma feature of the Absolute Truth,
whereas bhakti-yoga, or devotional service, which is executed in nine different ways, headed by
hearing and chanting, aims at complete realization of the Supreme Lord. There are different
methods of self-realization. But here Devahuti especially refers to the bhakti-yoga system, which
has already been primarily explained by the Lord. The different parts of the bhakti-yoga system
are hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping the Lord in the temple,
accepting service to Him, carrying out His orders, making friendship with Him and ultimately
surrendering everything for the service of the Lord. The word nirvanatman is very significant in
this verse. Unless one accepts the process of devotional service, one cannot end the continuation
of material existence. As far as jnanis are concerned, they are interested in jnana-yoga, but even
if one elevates oneself, after a great performance of austerity, to the Brahman effulgence, there is
a chance of falling down again to the material world. Therefore, jnana-yoga does not actually
end material existence. Similarly, regarding the hatha-yoga system, which aims at the localized
aspect of the Lord, Paramatma, it has been experienced that many yogis, such as Visvamitra, fall
down. But bhakti-yogis, once approaching the Supreme Personality of Godhead, never come
back to this material world, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. Yad gatva na nivartante: [Bg.
15.6] upon going, one never comes back. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti: [Bg. 4.9] after
giving up this body, he never comes back again to accept a material body. Nirvana does not
finish the existence of the soul. The soul is ever existing. Therefore nirvana means to end ones
material existence, and to end material existence means to go back home, back to Godhead.
Sometimes it is asked how the living entity falls down from the spiritual world to the material
world. Here is the answer. Unless one is elevated to the Vaikuntha planets, directly in touch
with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is prone to fall down, either from the impersonal
Brahman realization or from an ecstatic trance of meditation. Another word in this verse,
bhagavad-banah, is very significant. Banah means arrow. The bhakti-yoga system is just like
an arrow aiming up to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The bhakti-yoga system never
urges one towards the impersonal Brahman effulgence or to the point of Paramatma realization.
This banah, or arrow, is so sharp and swift that it goes directly to the Supreme Personality of
Godhead, penetrating the regions of impersonal Brahman and localized Paramatma. (SB
3.25.30)

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